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New Friends and Free Births · Mom Wars

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: From the front lines of The mom Wars. Here's Bethany
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Mandel and Kara Kennedy.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Good evening, Good morning. Whenever you're listening to this. I'm
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: actually curious when people listen to this and wonder what
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: circumstances they listen to it. It would impact if we
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: curse more or less. If you don't listen around your children,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: maybe I can curse more. Anyway. I'm Bethany Mandel, and
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I am co host of this lovely podcast, The mom Wars.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: You love it, I love it. We all love it.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I am a mom of six, and I homeschool and
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I write for The New York Post and the Washington Examiner.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: And I am joined by my beautiful co host.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I don't feel beautiful today.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Kyra Kennedy because you're pregnant.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Contributing right to it the free price. What else.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: That's another of one and a half. One on the way.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Daphney just did one. I was it was great. She
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: was asleep by six pm on a bit day.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Love it and we full, Oh God. When we are
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: joined by a new guest who you're not going to
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: find on Google. Arden Jamison, a mom of five that
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I met while Apple picking with my children on a
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: homeschool meetup, and I have to tell the story because
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I am a religious person who does not believe in accidents,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: and we stumbled upon you, and it was so funny
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: because of all the families there, there was one family
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: that had two, but everyone else it was like I
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: have eight, I have nine, I have six, I have five.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: There was one woman that had ten. I think the
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Catholic mom has ten.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Right, Catholic mom was there with ten, yes, yeah.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: And so you were like, all of a sudden, all
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: of these families roll up, who all have more children
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: for the most part than you, who is normally a
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: freak and has the most children of anyone you know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you are like outnumbered,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: and you're like what is going on here? And so
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: we to talking and I was like, okay, we have
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: to stop talking, and I have to have you on
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: my podcast. You are fascinatingly not religious. And you were
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: the only mom there that was not religious. All of
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: us were either there was it was our Jewish homeschool
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: or group. And then we ran into a like two
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Catholic friends, which again was not fate.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: They're like, good friends, and this is like forty five
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: minutes from my house, like it's not close, and I
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: ran into you and my Catholic friends. So I don't
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: think it was an accident that we met, because obviously
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: you had to come on my podcast and talk about
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: what are you doing with five children? Oh and let
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: me just tell you, let me put my cards on
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: the table. My short term strategy of having you on
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: was because I wanted to talk to you. But my
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: long term strategy is to convince car to also have
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a basilion tea kids. So there's like a short term
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: and a long term strategy. Here, tell everyone this crazy
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: thing that you're doing and why why on earth you're
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: doing it?
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, okay, Well, first I even know how to
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: describe it. I didn't even want to like say it
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: in front of your children. I was raised atheist, like
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: I was raised one hundred percent. God does not exist,
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: Like when you die, you don't go to hell, you
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: go on the ground. Not in a mean way, it
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: was just like this is what like people who believe
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: in God, they can't think for themselves. Like it was
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: not in a negative but it.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Was just why that way? What does not exist?
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: And I honestly truly believe that not and like I
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: believe that other people believe. I think it's beautiful that
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: other people believe I that's my thought.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Now I have tried to believe. I just don't. And
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: then the same thing, like did I ever think I
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: was going to have a lot of children? I guess not.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know. My husband says we cheated because we
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: got the twins.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: He's like, we don't even really have that large of
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: a family, you know, like the the book the Birthday
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: she Kada counts it as five. You have to have
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: five to be a large family. He's like, well, you've
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: only had four pregnancies, Like you just we cheated on this.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: I'm not in a joking way, but it's not like
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: we plan to like have a whole bunch. It kind
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: of happened.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: You don't feel like you're done, right, That was the
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: impression I got.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think that I'm done. Yeah, I don't
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: think it would seem weird. I'm young, I'm fairly I'm
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: only thirty three. It just seems so odd now to
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: be like, okay, this is it, Like you're done. Like
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: I we love our children, We're like why would I stop?
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I guess that's always my reaction to because people keep
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: saying to me, will you be done after this one?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: It's like to say that I would be done with
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: kids at twenty seven seems so ridiculous that I can't
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: even say it. So who knows?
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so, see, you're young. It doesn't make sense
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: like it for me. It's like a sign like biology.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: It just does not make sense of why you would stop,
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: Like you can't. I don't believe in birth control from
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: like a health perspective, not like I I people like
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: the ability to control births, but like from like your
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: options are hormonal birth control or like vaseectomes or two
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: bulge like there none of them are good options from
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: seriously altering the way your body works just doesn't make
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: sense for me.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: That's what I mean, Like for my health.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Is not good. It's not good for you.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: My fifth is a.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: Natural family the exactly one month of natural family planning failed,
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: and I know that there are a million things you
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: could do.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: To do it better than what I did.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: So I just one from like just like a biology perspective,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: like I'm not going to stop, like do something permanent
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: to make me not have kids. So it's weird to say, like,
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna have anymore. But everybody thinks I would
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: be like, oh, you can have more kids. I know
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: that they're all thinking like, hell, yeah, I'm done. But
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: I'm like, that's the answer. People think that I'm going
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: to give them, and that's not it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: When we when we met, I told you a little bit.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: So we had so we had five in like pretty
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: short order, and like, logically we should have been done
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: after five, and like, honestly, like mentally, I was there
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. We had no room in
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: our car, we had a seven seater or mini van.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We had no room in our house. We have four bedrooms,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: but the fourth bedroom is like tiny, tiny, and the
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: other two bedrooms were already doubled up. And we were
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: just like, okay, we're done. And then we natural family
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: planned also and I ovulated ten days late, and I
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: befell pregnant. That's what that's the phrase. It's like really passive.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: You're like I don't know what happened. I just befell
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And now he's here. And I realized that I was
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: like really sad about being done, like emotionally I was
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: just like I had this like real longing and sadness
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: about being done at five, and I don't feel like
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: that anymore. I don't after him now. I'm like, oh
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: now I'm like I'm emotionally done in a way I
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: didn't know that I wasn't beforehand. And I look at
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: him and I'm like, how did he like how could
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: he not exist? Like what were we thinking? Of course
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: he was supposed to be here. But then that also
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: makes me question, like, well, maybe there's someone else too,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's a I always I always say that, like
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Ben Franklin is like the eighth and I'm like, maybe
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: we have to keep going until eight to get Ben Franklin.
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think technically when I actually I have two girls.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: I had four kids in three and a half years
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: because of the twins, so I had two girls and
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: two boys. So a lot of it was like, well,
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: it would make sense on paper to just be done right.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I could say, oh, like I had four kids at thirty.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: By thirty, I have the perfect amount of each, And
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: I like the whole time.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: That my twins were girl like. Still, you know, I
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: know I couldn't get pregnant told they were too. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: was nursing for so long. I was like every day
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: I would change my mind, like I shouldn't have any more,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: you know, like the technical this makes sense, just be done.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: And then like the baby happened pretty unexpected well whatever,
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's not that unexpectedly.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Everybody, as my husband says like, oh yeah, we don't
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: know how it happened.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: You're so pregnant.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: But he is like the best child I've ever had.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: He is the sweetest baby.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: And that's why I'm like, I'm so glad that the
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: decision was made for me, you know, like it just happened.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: And then now he's so good, Like why would I not.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: It's hard to say, like I'm going to stop now.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: Like if he wasn't the sweetest, maybe I'd be like,
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: I guess I should try not to do this again.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: But you know, so, I mean, my so, my I
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: had the same I had the same thing. I had
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: two boys, two girls. I had four. It was perfect,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: and we were really on the fence about the fifth.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And this is I mean, I wanted to have a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: fifth and I was looking I was desperately looking for
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: dumb signs and My dumb sign was Deseret News. I
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: was like, I was writing there ever in like super infrequently.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And it's an LDS publication based out of Utah, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: they were starting a magazine and they wanted me to
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: write for their inaugural issue about big families. And they
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: were like, you know, we wanted a woman writer. We
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: thought you would be great. And I said, well, what
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: do you How do you qualify a big family? And
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: they said five They're like, and I was like, you know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: it would be a really good lead if I if
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I say I'm pregnant with my fifth and the piece
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: and the editor was deeply uncomfortable and was like, I
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: hope that you had this conversation with your husband before
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: you had it with me. And I was like, I
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: have not. In fact, I will go do that. I
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: will write the piece for you. And and I had
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: enough lead time that I was like, and I think
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I can get pregnant in that time. Yeah, I think
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: that's that's what I'm gonna do. And he was like, Okay,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: I am really uncomfortable, but I wish you luck and
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: let me know how it goes. And we would like
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: two thousand words by such and such date and then
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: it took me a little while to get pregnant. But
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: then the magazine hit some like formatting snags or something.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I don't even know, but they pushed off the pub date.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So it still worked out, and that's how I announced
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I was pregnant with my fifth was in that magazine piece.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Wait, I have so many questions. And also I don't
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: think we introduced.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Out in like I feel like we kind of did, Yeah,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: go ahead. I don't think he just kind of jumped
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: into it. Okay, God, I don't know.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: It's just a very cool name, So I feel like
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: she should be introduced. So you had a twin home birth.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I want to know everything about that.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Oh it was I. I had to have done it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: They came so fast, like literally so like I would
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: have had it. I mean I would have two babies
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: in a car and my second baby had to be
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: like just had to have air put them into him,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: which is not I'm not I don't want to stay
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: in a scary way like he was totally fine, but
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: like he needed somebody there to like.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: To breathe life into him.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: And if I had not had a home birth, I
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: would have been in a car without anybody there to breathe.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Zero stars, right, I don't recommend it. Yeah, I was
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: born in a car.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I did read that. That's how far I got into
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: stalking Bath. I was to stop. So I had my
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: twins at home. I really really wanted to.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: Luckily, my midwife that delivered my second one and my
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: first home birth was she's.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Legally was legally allowed to do it.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: And then I know that they take them on case
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: by case basis, like he said, like, they don't want
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: that on them. They don't want like something to happen
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: to a baby or happen.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: To a mom.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: And I think at her scenario, like from my previous berths,
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: and then I continue to do like maternal feetal medicine
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: care throughout my pregnancy to guarantee that, like there were
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: no issues.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: But that was your third and fourth, and so what
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: about your fifth? Did you have your fifth at home
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: as well?
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Yes? Of course, yes, of course I don't know.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe things so maybe something happened, but I'm not gonna
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: what about.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: The thirs too? Did you have No?
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I had the first one in a hospital, Like I
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: had heard about home birth was like that is insane
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: and I'm not paying for it, like I'm not that crunchy.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I had my crunch love gone up significantly.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: But I had my first like unmedicated in the hospital
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: all of that, and I was planning on having my
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: second one same thing in the hospital, unmedicated. But I
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: switched like at thirty six weeks because it was March
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: of twenty twenty, and that's when they were talking about, like,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: you know, the numbers are going to go up, the
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: hospitals are going to be flooded.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I was like, that doesn't make sense for me to
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: have a child there.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: And then I had like a last minute home birth
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: and it was just such a It was so cool
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: and so much better than a hospital.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: And then from then, yeah, yeah, I.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Loved my So I had my first two in a hospital,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: same thing midwives, but like unmedicated midwives in a hospital,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: and that was amazing. Honestly, that was like a very
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: ideal world. And then my third was born in the car.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: My fourth I would have liked to not have her
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: at home because it was not a great berth. And
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: there was like this pattern on my on my shower
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: that I became fixated on when I was in labor,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: and every time I took.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: A sh she was pusterio right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, she had her hands on her face and she
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: just sat in my vagina for four hours, like literally
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I could if I put my finger in just one knuckle,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I touched the top of her head like she was
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: just sitting there for four hours. It was horrible, and
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I was convinced I was going to die. So I
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: became like fixated on a pattern in my shower, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: then every time I took a shower, I would like
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: feel myself transported back to that like it was like
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: PTSD And thank god we were renting that place and
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: we moved. But I was like, I would have liked
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: to never take a shower in here ever again. So
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: that was no fun. But then five and six were amazing.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And that was the other thing that made me apprehensive
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: about having a sixth because my fifth, that birth was
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: amazing and I wanted to ride it into the sunset,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: and I was like, there is no birth as great
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: as that, and then I replicated it with my sixth.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: It was also a ride into the sunset birth.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: That's it. So my fifth was my hardest birth, the
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: worst one, and it really.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Was when I still had him at home I had
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: him within I don't know, fifteen hours or so, but
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: I like eight week. Yeah, so that's one thing. You know,
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: while I'm doing it, I'm like, never gonna do this again.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: And then right after you're like, Okay.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Well no, you need a birth that you can ride
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: into the sunset.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah I'm not done, right, but yeah, they say I
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: had I was like warned about it because I guess
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: with like with the twins, like my eaters were so
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: stretched out, they can say that like a baby. I
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: was expecting him to fly out because all my other
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: ones were so like freaking fast.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: And then he just like was not fast at all.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: And they say that when you have twins, your uter
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: stretches out so the baby can just get in like
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: crazy positions so they can't your belly, and the same
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: thing with multiple pregnancies, like it can be harder the
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: more pregnancies you have, because your uter stretches out and
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: it doesn't push the.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Baby like where it should be.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So that's actually why my fourth was so awful, because
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: she was my smallest and she got herself in a
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: weird position and that was why she was so awful.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: My fifth and my sixth were ten pounds and there's
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: just only one way. There's only one path when you're
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: that big, and it's just out and it's out pretty quickly.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And so it's funny because I tell people they were
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: ten pounds and they're like ooh, and I'm like, those
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: were the best ones by far. Wasn't even close. My
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: seven pound baby was the hardest one. And she's also
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: my hardest.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting to know because the scariest thing because
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Daphne was posteria, and that made the birth and the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: push in particularly so long. The going into this pregnancy,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: my biggest question and my biggest anxiety has been, oh,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: if I have one posteria baby, are they all going
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to be like that? And they would like no, but
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I'm still scared.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's a scary thing. It's no fun. Yeah.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I became more and more scared actually as I had
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: more and more babies about the of birth.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Ah, Okay, I was like this, do you know what's happening?
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Like there's no denying that it's painful, and like when
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: you start to get painful, you like actually know what,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: like how painful it's going to become versus the first time.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: It's still kind of like, oh, it just hurts, but no,
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: you really know what's about to come from this horrible baby.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: So I will say that the last two babies I stopped.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: So when I hit transition with my first four, I
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: thought I was dying. I like said good I said
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: goodbye to my husband. I hugged him, I told him
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I loved him, I had beat a beautiful life together.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And the midwives were always like, I've never heard someone
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: be so nice in this moment, and it was like
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Seth was like, because she thinks she's dying, and they're like, oh,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: that's beautiful. At least you know what you're gonna get
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: when the time comes. My fifth of my sixth, I
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: didn't think I was dying, but then that spooked me
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: because I was like, I think this is transition, but
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think that I'm gonna die, So maybe it's
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: not transition. Maybe it's gonna get even worse. And then
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I started to get in my head a little bit.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's the weirdest part for me is that,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: like everybody always says, oh, it's so natural, your body
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: just knows what to do, and it does, but it's
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: it's also not natural. It's like an insane, gory, scary,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: very intense, like you could never describe it to somebody
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: until they've been through it thing, and that to be
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: is so terrifying. Hi, this is a young Culter.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Welcome to my Ricochet podcast.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: And Coulter every week on Ricochet your home to center
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: Right conversation. Hey, that was pretty good, Arden.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Do you have your other children present at your births?
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: No, so they're all like my oldest was three and
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: a half. It wasn't even three and a half when
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: the twins were born, and.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Then for this last one, I was like I expected
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: for him to just come in the middle night like
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: with while my kids were asleep, and then he didn't.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: I labored throughout the night and the next morning, you know,
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: they're all up at six, I was dealing with them
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: and I.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: Was like, Okay, they're going to be around for it,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: and I thought it would be okay.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: And my midwife was like looking at me while I
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: always had two two year olds on me, and I
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: was like having a contraction, and she's like they have
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: to leave, Like you're not going to be able to
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: do this if they're here. But they're all young, like
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: there's so like six four and two two year olds.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: So my husband took them away and then I had
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: the baby like an hour away after him.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what made you like, did you think you
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: were going to have five and maybe hope maybe counting children?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Like what did you go into parenthood thinking you would.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Have a good kid?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: You're just like a kid like I think, I like
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: I would.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: I don't ever have any like. I don't think I
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: ever held babies before I had children. I like my
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: friend's kids, but I never like, oh, I'll pick up
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: your baby for you.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Not in a bad like.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: I of course I will pick any child up and
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: take them moreever, but I've never like some people sit
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: there and they're like, oh.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: We're a baby crazy Like no.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: H No, I think after too, I was like, oh,
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: it would be really cool to get to four and like,
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe five if I really really could, that'd
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: be crazy. But no, I have no memory in like
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: high school or college did I ever say I was
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: going to have a bunch of kids, like not five.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: I don't have no.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I mean every time I get pregnant, my parents, like
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: my mom is very close with us. I think she
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: at this point, like finally gets it, but my dad,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: like they are incredibly surprised every time.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: And I have children, I can't tell my in laws.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I have this like my parents are dead so that
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: makes it easier, but I feel this like teen mom embarrassment,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: like I've done something, which I have done something, so
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I can't tell my I make sense to it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: I have to.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I have to be like out of the room when
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: he does it because I'm so deeply embarrassed. And when
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: we told his uncle once his and it was like
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: one of the later kids. He was like, when do
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you guys have time? And I was like, and this
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: is why I don't want to be in the room.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: This is exactly why. But I feel like a really
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: deep discomfort, like I'm a teen mom.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think I've ever told my in laws,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: but my husband, like he told my father in law
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: when I was like five weeks pregnant with this thing,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: and then he told everybody, so they're like that was
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: an issue.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think that I told.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: My dad had a stroke right after I had my
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: twins and it affected his short term memory, so it
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: was a really hard time remembering things. And he has
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: to be told like a million times to remember something
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: like that recently occurred. He'll remember anything from when he
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: was younger. And so he had to be told maybe
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: like a hundred times that I had twins, and every
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: single time he'd be like, arden has four kids, Like
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: every single time he was told he had the same
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: like incredibly like could not believe it reaction, And it
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: took like a year and then finally like he remembered
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: that I did have four children.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, So are you how many siblings do you have?
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: I have one?
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: You're one of okay, and what about your husband?
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: He's one of three?
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: But my husband was raised Catholic, but he's not like
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: super he does not believe he's not Catholic right now,
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: but he's one of three.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And then his dad's one of six, so there's something
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: of that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and so like you didn't think you would
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: get to three, four, five, but now you don't feel
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: like you're done. Is it just the age and the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: birth control thing or do you think there's something like.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: More, uh, like you know, past biology, Like, oh, I'm
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: just gonna get knocked up because I have to because
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I can't, no, like I do actively, I don't know.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: I think my husband and I, well, I asked him,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: and he's like, no, I just like to have sex.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, because I brought up the Catherine
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: the Birth Dearth book and I know she wants to
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: interview men about like, you know, having a bunch of kids.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Do you want to like maybe you want to do
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: it from like a you know, a secular atheist side.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: He's like, I just want to have sex. I don't
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: have some big plan. I was like, that's not true.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: He's like it is, like.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, well my ass one wouldn't say.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: He's like I can't be interviewed. He's like I just yeah,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I'm not pulling out as as he says.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: So no, I'll have to put an e warning on
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: Once you're in it, you just love them. I don't
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: know what's the point of life without them. And at
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: this point, like by five, it's gotten so much easier
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: than one, and I feel like I keep getting better
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: at it now I have all this new knowledge, like
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: it'd be so much easier to just have another one
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: after it.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So that's how I felt about buying a car seat,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: a new car seat for my fifth I when I
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: found out I was having a sixth I was like, well,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: at least I get another you I get another kid
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: in that car seat because it seems wasteful. Yeah, I
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: only have one kid use that infant car seat.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, every time I buy something nice for like my oldest,
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: I don't buy a lot of stuff, but we do
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: like a lot of four school outside stuff.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: So if I buy like a really nice coat.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, well, I'll use it five times or
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: four times, and it's like the price has just gone
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: down significantly, so it doesn't matter. You know, if I'm
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: going to hold this thing for ten years, then it's fine.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Wait, and also, you homeschool.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: I do homeschool, but my oldest is only seven, so
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say I'm I'm not like a hard We're
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: not like doing a whole bunch of homeschooling.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: How did you come to the decision to home school?
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think well, originally I had no, like, we
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: had no plans of homeschooling. It wasn't like in our radar.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: I think, like a lot of people COVID, just the
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: idea that that like schools could close it and made
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: you kind of think twice about it.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Even though my oldest world too, and then from there,
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: I think I've just learned so much and thought just
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: like so differently from what I used to think about,
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: like what is right and what is wrong? And I
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: want what I want my kids around, And ultimately I
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: just think it's a really cool opportunity and I want
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: to keep them hooking and I can do it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really nice.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fun.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I really I really like having my kids around, Mike.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: They go to a day camp in the summer for
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: six weeks and so I have to like rush them
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: out the door. And it's the worst six weeks of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: my entire year, and it costs me.
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: So much money.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they like, they make friends that they have forever.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: It's it's good for them. I hate it.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: No, my oldest goes we do a home school co
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: op one day a week and then she goes there's
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: like this outdoor adventure school camp thing out here in Poolsville,
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: and she goes.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: It one day a week. And I hate it, Like
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I hate having just her gone, Like I don't understand
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: how parents do they drive one kid there, Like I've
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: spent an hour in the car driving her one place,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: picking her up lugging the other ones around. It's like,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know how people do that every single day.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah no. And it's that six weeks is a
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: really good window for me because our relationship is strained
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: for six weeks because all I'm doing is yelling at them,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and then the night before I'm like, oh, I have
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: to like pack them this thing for tomorrow and I
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: have to Oh they have like they have to have
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: their camp shirts and they have to now I have
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: to do laundry, crab and it's like all these things
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: that I the mental load of getting them out the
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: door the night before, like thinking of all those things
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: and then rushing them out the door and yelling at
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: them like wake up, wake up, wake up. And we
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: just so it's nine thirty at night when we're taping
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: this right now, and I just watched two episodes of
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls with my kids, and I'm like, I don't
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: care because it's Sunday night. I just crossed Girls the
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Way for the first time.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Yeap, whoa.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: It's so it is not appropriate. I'm just gonna say
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that for our listeners, it's not You should not have
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: your twelve, ten, eight, and six year olds watching Gilmore Girls.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was so inappropriate.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's for grown ups.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Oops, now I know they will be fine. Yeah,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: it's fine. I don't care. I'm for someone who like
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: talks about parenting as much as I'm like, I'm not that.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I don't overthink things too much and I'm not really
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: that overprotective. They're all deeply uncomfortable by any mention of
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: kissing or sex. But it's actually really good because we
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: talk about relationships and like these sort of more adult things.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And so all of my kids spoiler for you, Kara,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: during the Max Medina relationship in the first season, they
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: were all like, this doesn't seem right. They don't this
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: is not right. They should she should not do this.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, mm hmm, that's right.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: But what are you saying? Is Gilmore Girls is like
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: homeschool in sex.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Said no, it's homeschooling relationships, okay, And you know, I
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: was telling I'm gonna end up writing about this for
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: the substack, which, by the way, people could subscribe that'd
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: be really nice. It is homescoming season now, and I'm
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: watching all of my friends who claim to be religious
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: and their daughters not wearing like long t shirts instead
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: of dresses. And I have talked about this every homecoming
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: season for ten years, how horrified I am at how
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: people allow their daughters to dress. And I finally have
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: a daughter that's like old enough that I'm allowed to
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: have an opinion now, and I'm like, no, I'm still horrified.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: You should still not let your daughter dress like that,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: and you definitely shouldn't post pictures of them like you're
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: proud of them, because you should not be proud of
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: that outfit. And I was showing my older two kids
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: a dress that someone I know her daughter was wearing,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and I looked at my son, he's ten, and I said,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: do not ever date a girl who dresses this way.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And my older daughter, who's my oldest, she's like, you're
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: not even gonna tell me not to dress the way.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't need to do that. You wear
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: a burka at the at the at the beach like
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: she wears like a full dress that comes to her
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: wrists and past her NAIs.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that the home the homecoming dress is
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a two like.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: There's they're like they're they're off the pole and out.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: To so short there so fine.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's fine.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: No, it's not fade.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: There's a because I feel like I remember my homecoming.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: It's gotten so bad, like butt cheeks hanging out, Like
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: there's a way that you could even be like hot
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: to trot and not be as bad as they are.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Right, it's two top, no straps and it comes up
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: literally to their butt.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: It is like you can see the cheek. It's a
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: smile now with the shorts and yeah, I feel like
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: that's something I would have worn. Am I turned out fine?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Did you know?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Just fine?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Just kidding? How old were you when you got pregnant?
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Like fourteen, twenty five?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Twenty five?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: No, because I felt like a child bride, I know
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: you really were twenty five.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: It's a car. I don't who are like are you
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: in this whole? Like when I first saw Bethany and
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: all her friends, I was like, my daughter's like asking question,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: like we can't talk to them. They don't want to
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: talk to us, like they are orthodox to you or
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: is that what you are? I don't even know. I
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: was like they are in their own world, they don't
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: want to be surrounded by us. Three ye old has
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: a problem with cussing right now.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: I'm like, you were going to say something inappropriate in
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: front of them, and like I can't. They don't want
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: to be they don't want to be around us, which
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: is why I was so lovely to like talk, like
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: to just talk to talk.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: But are you really who aren't car what? You're pregnant?
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Are you you're religious?
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I'm pregnant, I have a one year old. I'm not religious,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: although I get so much anti Semitic hate at this.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Point that you're not Jewish. By the way, I kind
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: of might as.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Well be Jewish to be honest. I just had a
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: message in my DMS being like Bethany Matt Dell is
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: a blah blah blah blah blah I get like a
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: hundred times to day because you're.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Because of the podcast. Yes, I couldn't do the Internet.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I started to so Bethany was like, don't wikipedi at me.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, well, I'm going to look it
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: all up, and after like twenty minutes, I was like
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: I don't need this, Like I'm just going to focus
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: on this wonderful like park, like it does not matter,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: like that's the issue, Like I don't need to what
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: is on the internet, like I would it's real interactions, right,
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: like that is what people really are. But uh yeah,
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: I had no idea. And then I knew that you
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: knew RAS and that was like, okay, I get why.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: I get I can kind of.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Understand why people like why people like my sister yes, yes,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and she helped me on my so we I don't know.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I guess you figured since I'm conservative, that maybe I
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: know your sister in law.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Okay, so after I met you or after that, I
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: doubt I don't have I keep Spotify off my phone
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: because it's just like another random thing for me to
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: look at, Like I've deleted everything off my phone. I
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: want to be you. It's and then I get on
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: and then I get off.
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: But like I don't have anything on Instagram, on Facebook,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: then I would like start reading the comments on podcasts,
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: like comments on Spotify when I wasn't even listening to
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: the podcast.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to delete this application. I can't do this.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Wait, we have comments on our Spotify.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I wasn't reading yours. No, you don't know, you don't.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: I did try to find him because I was like,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: because I was okay when I saw you at the
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Apple Orchard. I don't have Safari on my phone, so
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: I could not google you from my phone. There's no
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: way for me to be like, she just told me
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: not to look her up, Like, let me look her up.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: So I read down a loaded Spotify and then I
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: looked up the podcast and I saw you had one
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: on Montgomery County. And I was like, oh, I wonder
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: if she knows Ross.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: Because Roz was such a big deal with the Supreme Court,
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: and like she was following it too. So I texted her,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: I said, do you know this woman? I just met
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: her and she said, oh my god, we're really good friends. Yes,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: of course you are.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Yes. She helped me on my school board run. She
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: saved my behind in a thousand ways. So she runs
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Montgomery County's Moms for Liberty. I don't know how much
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I'm allowed to say about her role in the Supreme
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Court case. I don't know what's public and what's not.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. Okay, you don't know either. Okay,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say. I don't know how much
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: she's comfortable. But ros and Hanson, she runs Moms for
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Liberty Montgomery County. I love them. I love her, and
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: she was extremely clutch in the Supreme Court case that
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Montgomery County just lost and Moms and Dad's won. Oh yeah,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: was amazing.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: Roslin is my sister in law. She's my husband's sister,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: and so she is obviously religious. She's not obviously religious,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: but she is. And it's very funny because we don't
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: actually like follow any I don't follow this stuff because
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: it doesn't apply to me and I because I like
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: living in my own little bubble. But every once in
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: a while she'll be like, here's this is what I'm doing.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: You're like, oh, you're really doing something Like I don't
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: think I even knew like the final outcome of it.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, she's incredible. Like any good that comes out
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: of the school system here in Montgomery County, she's had
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: her hand in it.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So what is the result of that Supreme Court decision?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: We won, like we as in me and Roz and
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: all of the sane people, because the Supreme Court said, yes,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: you should be allowed to opt your children out of
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: reading Pride Puppy when they're five years old.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Was that Actually, when does that actually take place?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So they're supposed to be honoring it now but they
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: keep doing all this like whatever stuff there's there. They
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: do all this sneaky stuff in Montgomery County because they
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: don't think that you should be able to parent your
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: own children. So they they're doing jerky things in other ways,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: which is why I wanted to run for school board
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: and why I don't send my children in public school here,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: because they spend all of their time thinking about how
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: they can sneak in their morals into you know, into lessons,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: instead of teaching them how to read, which very few
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: children Montgomery County can presently do on grade level. It's wild,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I mean that to me, So it's funny. I was
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: interviewed for German publication and she never sent it to me,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and then she sent it to me a couple of
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: days ago.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: And I really read it.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was I was nervous when she didn't
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: send it to me. I was like, oh, I just
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: got like totally creamed and like everyone in Germany think
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: some of the like right wing religious nut job. But
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: she did a beautiful job.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Is it in Deman?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she like sent me a like AI translation cool. Yeah,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: But she talked about in the piece like the fact
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: that yes, some are. Obviously I'm a right wing to
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: just sell it, but that's actually not why I'm homeschooling.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I just want my children to be learn how to
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: read on grade level and be surrounded by kids who,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: you know, don't dress like they're going to the club
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: when they're twelve.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: You can dress that you go into. It's fine. It's
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: fine as long as they go out of it by
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: like nineteen.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: So at our local middle school, I think I was
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: telling me I.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Just kind of pitch just sent to me when I
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: was like eight years old and I was in hoops
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: like this big I sent it to my mouth Thatt like, well,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: what were you doing? Yeah, but that's not allowed to
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of my parenting choices are
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: just a repudiation of my mother's parenting choices.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: Though yeah, I was not raised conservatively at all. I
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: wouldn't say I'm even that conservaive, but like I definitely did.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: I was probably more like Yucara than then. But I
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: just as a parent, I don't know, it just makes sense.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: You just want the new babies. It's even like, I
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: know there's different reasons, like you like for religion and
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: all that, but it's just they're young. They should be
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: chilled like babies. Like I wish I had been a
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: baby for longer, not a baby like a kid, you know.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you only get that once and once you take
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: that away, that's it.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, my mom My mom as bad as I am,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and I think I'm pretty bad about sharing my kids
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: things that are not age appropriate, like media wise, like
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls. My mom was a thousand times worse. I
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: saw The Bird Cage in theaters when I was like eight.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: I think I know what that movie.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Wait, Robin Williams, Yeah, yeah, I've seen it.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I've seen it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they have to save their their their gay nightclub
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: with Nathan Lane. And really, how old already? How old
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: are you you?
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're five years a big movie person.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just what do you you just you rule dog
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: in life? You're just thinking? What are you doing me? Yeah?
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: I mean I do, like I will get on like
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: my so, I have everything deleted on my phone. Like
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: we don't have a TV in our house. What it
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: sounds crazier than it is. We are not crazy people,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: like if you meet like, we are not like crazy,
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Like we are not trying to keep our children away
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: from the world. It just like it did not work.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: All my kids kept like I was tired of having
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: my three year old yell at me about the TV,
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: and I said, okay, well I can fix this.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I just got rid of it.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: But it also keep like I don't know, Yeah, it's
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: like people hardly have time to do stuff like well,
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: I have five kids, and it makes it like the
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: hour that I have, I don't watch it. I'm able
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: to not spend it like watching TV because I don't
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: have one.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: So how do you make dinner?
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: What do you mean with my kids?
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Uh, one, my husband is home a lot, so I
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: that is like a he's off in home and helping.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: We'll like here and there. I don't know, they've just
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: gotten used to it. They just you know, if they
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: don't have it, they they're used to it. And a
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: lot of times they're yelling at me like I'm not right.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I need so that hour of dinner from five to six,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: that is like go go watch go do that. Yeah,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: And I really enjoy it.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: And I believe it and I think about it, and
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: every once in a while I'm like I could just
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: do it. But at this point, it's not even an issue,
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: right because it's not like I got rid of it
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: when my kids were older, Like it is not even
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: a thing because we got when they were so young.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: That how long have you lived without a TV?
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: Since my twins were like a month old? So I
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: don't know, three and a half years, almost three.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: And a half years. That's so I have a computer
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: if I want to watch something, and if they want
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: to watch, like I do have the ability, but no,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: it's part of our life.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: So do you like when something big happens, like do
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: you do you know about it?
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Like do you want to know? An example? Yeah, I
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: did not.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: I don't even want to say the name because I
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: feel like it's gonna I did not know who Charlie
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: Kirk was until maybe a week ago, and I didn't
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: know anything about him until I was out in person
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: and somebody something happened locally and I brought I was
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: like hey, and they're like, oh, it's because of this,
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: And I said, what are you talking about?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, oh like the flag is half staff
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like do you want to know? I
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: was like no, I don't want to know. But then
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: later that day, like it got my husband's phone. I
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: was like, I apparently I need to know this, So
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: like I don't know anything.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: The neighbor yesterday was like, well, they might be home
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: because of the shutdown, Like what are you talking about,
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: Like the government showed down on Tuesdays?
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Like, no idea, don't care.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: So that's no information to me too.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know that. So maybe it's not real.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: I don't even know. Maybe it's not real. Maybe because
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I didn't even look it up. I didn't get it
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: from the internet. It could be you know.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I am doing Laura Trump's podcast tomorrow and I haven't
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: looked at the rundown of what we're talking about. It
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: could be there. I am weirdly ignorant of random things
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: like the all the Russia Komy stuff.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah?
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Is that just again or is that the old stuff?
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: He was just arrested.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, see, no clue or indicted.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: He was indicted. I don't know the difference.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: No, no idea. I had no idea that was happening.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: That I was at the park the other day and
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: some kid yelled, I didn't know puff daddy was in jail.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: I found that out recently, not just recently, but like
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: one of the kids there were kids like yelling like
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: middle schoolers.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Like they were freed puff daddy what?
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: And I had to look it up, like I had
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: to go home and get up my computer and look
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: it up.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: So no, I really don't know much.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I do know.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: I'm not a crazy person, but I don't know.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Not only are you not a crazy person that I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: think kar and I are both thinking the same thing. Wow,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I want that life.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the most same person here. This is the
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: next time minutes. Can we just name big news stuff
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: that has happened in the best here and do like
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a test.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: I we'll see I probably don't.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: So there was a sore. We're taking this on Sunday,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: September twenty eighth. Did you hear about what happened in
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Michigan at the LDS Church?
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: No? When did it happen?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Twelve hours ago? No?
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Idea?
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Wow, So you don't get like news alerts on your phone.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I don't have anything on my phone. I don't have
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: a TV. I try like hell to stay off of Facebook.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: I can log into my husband's Facebook, and like that
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: is sometimes where I get things where like I'll log
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: in to try to check my like my homeschool co.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Op, and I'll be like, whoa, what is that? What happened?
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: But I don't, and then I try to get off
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: because I don't need to follow, and I especially don't
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: need to get something from Facebook to tell me what's happening.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: The I got Facebook for Facebook Marketplace and it's the
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: only thing I use it for. But I do find
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: myself scrolling sometimes looking at people who I want to
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: high school with.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: I just told my husband that the other day. That
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: is Facebook's I think that's the one thing that they
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: know people. Everybody's like, I'm not on Facebook. I'm going
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: to get off Facebook, but nobody can delete it because
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: of Facebook Marketplace. But they still can get you with
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: everything they're trying to throw at you in that few
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: minutes of you're trying to get on Facebook Marketplace.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: So Facebook groups I find helpful. I left. This was
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: actually like part of my wanting to start the mom
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Wears Subsacon podcast because I left all the mom groups
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: because those those bees are crazy. Yeah, but there's like
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: some homeschool groups that I find helpful, and like, I
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: had a random question today that I asked. So we're
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: going away to Greece into Isra mostly to Israel for
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: like six weeks, this coming up in like a month
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: and a half, and today I was like, what are
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: we going to do about our prescriptions? Like how are
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: we can't fill them more than a month and a day?
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: So I asked in a Facebook group and it's like
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: a group for like Israel travel, like all like people
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: who traveled Israel a lot. And a woman commented and
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: she's like, I'm a pharmacist in Jerusalem. Send me a
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: message and we'll figure it out. And I was like, oh,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: than you Facebook. This was helpful, And I mean I
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: don't know if you can really replicate that in any
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: other and.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: I do miss it, like there are things, but also
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: like the amount of effort it took to get there,
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: you know, like the amount of time I had to
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: spend and like checking well because I don't have my phone,
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: Like if I try to go buy something, like I
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: have to go back and forth with a computer because
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: I don't have Like I don't is it worth it?
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I took Facebook off my phone for years. I
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: have become much more permissive about screens. We were like
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: pretty anti no screens for a long time. And then
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: when my older kids started like wanting to like talk
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: to their friends, and I have guilt because they're homeschooled
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: and so I am very permissive with communications. And so
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: they have Facebook Messenger where they can message their preapproved friends.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And then I had to I had to download Facebook
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: back onto my phone so that they could I could
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: like approve their friends. And now I use it so
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: that I can spy on them. I look at you know,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: what they're doing on Facebook Messenger, and so I need
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I need Facebook, unfortunately on my phone, so that I
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: can spy on my children.
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: Hey, hate to interrupt you for a second, but I
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: have to James Lolex reminding you that it is October.
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: But of course you knew that. You look out the window,
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: everything's brown. You walk around the neighborhood, you got the
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: spooky decorations and the rest, well, you know what's really spooky,
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: as they say in the bad cliched ads, that's right
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: facing this month without ricochet. It's the place where you're
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: going to find the same civil center, right conversation you've
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: been looking for all your days on the internet. The
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: member feed is where it all happens. Meet new friends
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: discuss absolutely everything.
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: We'll be waiting for you at ricochet dot com.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I just took raddit off my phone and I feel
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: so free. I've been in rabbit holes about free birth
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: specifically for six months, and I'm so happy that I.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Never have to look at it again until your next
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: seven thousand word piece.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Now it's not going to be anything to do with pregnancy,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: anything to do with that, because mother is just so crazy,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: so so crazy.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: The ones on the internet. I'm always like, the people
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: who are commenting are the craziest because that you shouldn't
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: be commenting. You should not be spending all your time commenting,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: you should be doing so.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: That was one of the best pieces of parenting advice
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that I heard pretty early on, and I want to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: share it because it blew my mind. It's democratized parenting
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: advice too much. And the people who you want advice
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: from are not the people who will spend the time
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: in the Facebook groups telling you what to do with
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: your life. They're no.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I know this, but they make me so angry and
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: they say such they give such bait that I have
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: to reply and be angry and scream back of them.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: You know, it's the TV show like it's getting you go.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: This is the drama you can't leave. It's addicting.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: I get it. I'll even get stuck on I read
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: it comment. I won't ever comment. I don't. I just will.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: We used school to google one thing and it comes up.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: So are you having a free birth or is this
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: an ante? What happened here? You just wrote about it too, So.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: There was a.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And we're by the way, you're going to do a
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: whole separate episode. No, no, but I want her.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: To try, try and quickly summarize it. I don't know.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: It's been the last six months of my life. Basically,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: there is a free birth company that is led by
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: two people who and it's the most popular free birth
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: company in America, and they make a lot of money.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: They have loads of different courses and schools and you
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: can do a midware free school, and you can be
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: a duder and you can whatever. And it's all based
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: around free birth. Well, can you just explain what free
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: birth is? Free birth is when you give birth without
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: a trained medical person or midwife or anybody else that
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: is there with the intention to give you like physical
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: medical I guess support, like your husband can be there
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: and it's a free birth that's not really not allowed.
• 45:10
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Some of the women were completely alone. Some of the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: women were like free birth in twins, completely alone in
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: like forests and stuff. So like they it can go
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: pretty far on the spectrum. And basically, after a couple
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: months of seemingly a lot of deaths, a lot of
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: still birds, a lot of people who were in this
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: society felt like they had to get out and tell
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: the world that something had gone wrong and that it
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: was a kind of a cult. So that's why I
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: never want to talk about free birth. And again I will.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Talk about this again when we record. But one of
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: my very first things I ever wrote when I became
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: a freelance writer after I had my oldest daughter, was
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: for a site called PJ Media, and it was just
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: like a listicle of like the craziest things I saw
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: in a free birth Facebook group that I was in
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: because I was like sucked in and could not look away,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: and the amount of harassment that I got from that
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: was off the charts, Like these bees were insane.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Well, this is why it's been such an extremely stastful
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: feels because the people who often get broked into these
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: types of things and not the cellist of people. You know, Yeah,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: there's a reason that they can be influenced. I mean
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: some of them are completely normal, and I can see.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: How it's sucked it and I feel like you gave
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: voice to that. Really well. I can see the appeal.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I can absolutely see the appeal.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and I can particularly during COVID, I think
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: like things were done so badly and managed so badly,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and advice that was being given to pregnant women was
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: so bad that like, of course you're going to be like, oh,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I would rather do this on my own. Like I
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: completely get the impulse, But I think the issue with
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: the Freebo Society is that it became that like they
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: noticed that they were making a lot of money by
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: saying very very radical things, and they were attracting more
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: and more members and more and more people paying, you know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: and then they got sucked into that and they were like,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: oh well and.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: The cult stuff really bothered me, Like the and you
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: told me a lot of examples of things that women
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: would share when they were in labor of what was
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: happening that you were like, oh my god, you have
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: to go to a hospital right now, Like It's like
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: my water broke four days ago and I've been leaking
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: maconium for three of them and I haven't felt the
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: baby move in fifteen hours.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well, I was absolutely, like, point blank the
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: batim told like by multiple women, I would rather have
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: a dead baby than have a birth happen. That it
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: didn't go like how I wanted it to go. You know,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: it was way more focus on the birth experience than
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: it was the child terrible yikes.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: I mean we about it.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Very early on, before I even kind of got into
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: this investigation, when I just said to you, oh, I
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: found some free birth stuff. What do you think about that?
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, it's crazy, don't even sell.
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: Look.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: And it's because like I am, like, I had you know,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: four out of six kids intentionally at home, and with
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: my last one, he was due. I don't remember when
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: his due date was, but he was super late, and
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: so my midwife. First of all, I let myself go
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: super late, like it was almost two weeks and my
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: midwife wanted to go go to Virginia, I think, to
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: like see family on Christmas, and I was already over
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: a week late by the time Christmas came and she
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: was like, given how precipitous some of your births have been.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: If I go to my family on Christmas and you
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: call me, I don't I don't know if I'll make
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: it back. And I was like, eh, wouldn't be the
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: first time SETS delivered a baby. It's honestly, go have
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: your Christmas. I want you to have your Christmas. And
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: then the next day she's like, so, like, are you
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: feeling anything or I'm like no, honestly not like take
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: your time on the way home. Some have some like
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: post Christmas, and I was like, I really didn't care.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I was like, what's the worst case scenario if the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: baby comes so quickly that she can't make it from Virginia?
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Things are fine, and it's really not the first time
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: that my husband has delivered a baby. That it was fine.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Ended up that she came home the night of the
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: twenty sixth, and at dawn on the twenty seventh, he
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: was born.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: It was great.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Would you feel comfortable given birth with nobody there?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have loved it. It was not a great
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: experience when my third was born in the car, but
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: there was also like a lot of dust from the
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: parking lot, which made it unpleasant, like it was scary,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: like he came out and what like time moved very slowly,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: and so he came out, he had the cord wrapped
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: around him, not very tightly, like it wasn't scary, but
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: he came out and he was really really bruised from
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: how quickly he came out, and so he looked blue
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: and he kind of had the core and then he
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: just didn't take a breath immediately. And I didn't remember
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: in the moment like how fast it happens, but it
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: felt like it took a really long time. And so
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I was like rubbing him vigorously, trying to like acclimate
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: him to being outside, and it just it felt uncomfortably,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: and there was no one there to tell me, like
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: he's fine. One of my baby boys, my baby boys.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: The berths were so similar that I have a hard
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: time remembering who was who. One of the baby boys
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: also didn't acclimate great, and there was a question of
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: transferring me to the hospital because his breathing wasn't spectacular
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the first minute or two. And it was so nice
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: to have my midwife there to be like, is this normal,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and she's like he's fine, but I don't love it,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, thank you for that honesty. I appreciate it.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: And then like five minutes later she's like, now we're good,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: and I just like it's such an emotional experience and
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: you're not thinking rationally from transition to birth, Like I
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: need someone who has their has their wits about them
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: and who has like the expertise to for me to
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: have like confidently put myself and say like I trust
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: you and I don't. I don't have to be like
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: on alert right now because I'm I've just you know,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: done this horrible, crazy thing of birth and my husband
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I don't trust him well.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: And there's a difference between like having because they warn you,
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: like when you're having a homework, your midwives talk you
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: through like hey, if you have a really fast baby,
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: like what here's what you need to do or what
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: your partner needs to do if you have to deliver
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: the baby, And there's much difference between like Okay, I
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: might have this baby so fast they might pop out,
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: but I know the midwives on the way, like you
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: know the same thing, like if the baby just flies out,
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: most likely everything is completely Like it's better than fine, right,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: it's the actor where something might be wrong, And there's
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: definitely a difference between knowing that that might happen, but
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: you know the midwives about to be there then, or
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: you have somebody like you're preparing to call the hospital
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: if needed, versus doing it on purpose.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Right, right, And like if if he had been born
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: and she was on her way, we would have had
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: her on the phone, so she would have walked us
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: through it, and also wouldn't have been our first time
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: because we had our third accidentally in the car.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Well, this is what I think about, Like a lot
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: of the women who signed up to this free both
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: in course we're told that like, oh, all you really
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: need is like your motherly intuition whatever. But the teachers
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: who were telling them that were trained midwives for status
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: and had been to many births and had lots of experience,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: you know, And there's a big difference between them and
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: my first time mother. I mean it was going through
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: the first pregnancy when.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: When I had my sixth, I have video of the
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: first like the last couple of minutes of the birth
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: and then the first couple of minutes of his life,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm I'm on camera yelling he's covered in blood,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: and I, in my brain I knew why, Like he's
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: not like he's not been injured. It's my blood. And
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: intellectually I knew that, and I in my brain was
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: answering myself, like stop saying that that's dumb. He's fine,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: it's your blood, dumb, dumb. But I was like hysterically
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: yelling he's covered in blood. And the midwife was so
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: chill and so reassuring. She's like, he's fine, You're fine,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: it's your blood. He's good, You're good. But I needed
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: someone to like be that reassuring voice for me in
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: the moment. So even like the maternal instinct sixth kid is,
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not thinking rationally, carn you won't have ye.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Sorry? What then do these people have free births?
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: Because like I know that a lot of it's like
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: I can't afford a midwife or like a I won't
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: legally do my birth, or is it Have you found
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: more people who are like I'm going to free birth
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: because I want a free birth, Like it's not a
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: financial issue. It's not finding a midwife that will deliver them.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: It's mostly not a financial issue. Know, it's an ideological decision.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: It's not money. There are some people who I spoke
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: to who one girl in the piece was sexually assaulted
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: by her doctor who was later struck off and not
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: allowed to see patients anymore. He was I think he
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: was like seventy four years old or whatever, and conducted
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: membrane sweep without her consent and like did it in
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: a way that was like obviously sexual assault and not
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: like doctor K and she and she was like, oh,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: I free birth because I couldn't really afford a midwife
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: and didn't like my midwife, you know. So that is
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that was the case for some of them, but most
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: of it it was like an ideological decision that they
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: didn't trust the medical establishment, and a lot of them
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: didn't have like had good reason not to trust them
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: because it was COVID.
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: But they wouldn't even trust like a midwife at home
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: or I guess they couldn't find one.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Well, So the free Bird Society the biggest enemy is midwives.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: They call them medwives because they believed that they parted
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the same evil establishment as doctors are. So these women
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: were turned against midwives a lot of the time.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: It's just dumb.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: I think we should wrap but this was so lovely
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm so glad we got a chat I.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Call maybe about apple picking? Was it apple pick in?
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so wholesome. Are you in DC car or where? What? Okay?
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Just outside of DC kind of it's an hour, yeah,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: it was. It was a it was a trip for
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: you to come to Shabbat lunch, right, it was lunch.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: It was fine. It was an hour and a half.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: We do that all the time. Well, next time maybe
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: we can. Maybe we could have a have a Shabbot
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: lunch with all of our families.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, and on how far do you live from Aden?
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Probably forty minutes. I don't know, it's not that far.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: I used to live in DC.
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: Like somebody who's complaining about driving to DC from out here,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: and I was like, I used to live in DC
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: and drive out here every single day, So it's not
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: it's not that far.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I love it. All right, thank you for coming on.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Hopefully you didn't regret it, and you didn't regret not
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: googling us before you came on. No, you can google me.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I'm fine. I'm fine.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I'm genocidal maniac's sick. But if you if
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: you had the Internet. Maybe you would get yelled at
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: for going on a genocidal maniacs podcast, but you don't
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: say it's fine. Well, all right, thank you all for listening.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Please don't forget to subscribe both to the substack and
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: you can watch our episodes if you are paying subscriber
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: a car up, upload the video, subscribe on your podcast
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: of choice, leave us reviews on Apple or Spotify or whatever,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: and until next time, saddle.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: Up Ricochet join the conversation