Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Trump Fails On Economic Messaging At PA Rally + Inside the Movement To Save Childhood From Big Tech

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Full Episode - Trump Fails On Economic Messaging At PA Rally + Inside the Movement To Save Childhood From Big Tech · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: that code. Hello, They're happy Thursday and welcome to another
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: episode of the Chuck Podcast. Our third episode of the week,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: which means this is our big weekend episode of a
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: terrific guest on a topic that I think is getting
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: more and more attention. And conversation and it's about screen
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  Speaker 1: time and our kids. Interviewing Julie shell Foe. She is
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  Speaker 1: the founder, former journalist, but the founder of an organization
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  Speaker 1: called Mama Mothers Against Media Addiction. It is modeled after
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Mad Mothers Against Drunk Driving and it is simply that
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  Speaker 1: just trying to focus on getting screens out of schools,
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  Speaker 1: not just you know, cell phone bands and schools, which
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  Speaker 1: of course is you know, when you think about how
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  Speaker 1: hard it is to get our two parties to agree
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  Speaker 1: on anything about the one thing this year where there
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: has been bipartisan agreement on a policy idea, it has
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: been cell phone bands and schools, and the early metrics
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  Speaker 1: in the places that implemented it first, you're already seeing
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: at least some evidence of teachers saying students are paying
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  Speaker 1: more attention and test scores being up, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: we'll see again it's it's it's a it's a small
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  Speaker 1: sample size of the of the early adopters of this,
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  Speaker 1: but it goes further than just phones and schools. As
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  Speaker 1: I said, you know, this has to do with iPads
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  Speaker 1: and you know, using devices and you know, what's the line.
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  Speaker 1: And in this case, Julie makes a pretty uh, a
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  Speaker 1: pretty credible case as to why even using screens, you know,
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  Speaker 1: using school iPads, that there's got to be an age
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  Speaker 1: where we don't do it until, you know, maybe it's,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you know, ninth grade, maybe it you know, you don't
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  Speaker 1: get your first device as a teaching tool until eighth
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: or ninth grade, something like that. But to at least
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: have some sort of marker here, we've seen Ram Emmanuel
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  Speaker 1: became the first major potential presidential candidate in twenty twenty
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  Speaker 1: eight to call for a you know, a nationwide band,
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  Speaker 1: which is what of course Australia is trying to implement,
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  Speaker 1: I believe in just the last couple of days. So
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  Speaker 1: it is the relationship with tech and our lives in
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  Speaker 1: many ways I think is going to continue to be.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, look, the economy is obviously first and foremost
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  Speaker 1: in any campaign year. Healthcare is always a part of that.
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  Speaker 1: But after those two issues, the impact of tech on
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  Speaker 1: all of our lives, whether it's screen time and our kids,
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  Speaker 1: whether it's AI and the and the fear of AI
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  Speaker 1: job displacement, the the you know, the impact of Silicon
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  Speaker 1: Valley and big tech in our lives is something it's
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  Speaker 1: clear more Americans want more control over this. There's this
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  Speaker 1: feeling that you don't you know when you the reason
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  Speaker 1: I think you're seeing this growing bipartisan sort of revolt
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  Speaker 1: and pushback. I mean, even look at the pushback that's
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  Speaker 1: taking place inside the Republican Party where Donald Trump is
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  Speaker 1: saying he wants to sign an executive order that prevents
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  Speaker 1: any state from trying to put regulation on the AI industry.
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  Speaker 1: And immediately, you know, they tried to put it in
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  Speaker 1: the government. You know, they try to get it in
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  Speaker 1: the bill to reopen the government, and there wasn't the
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  Speaker 1: votes for that, and there was a total revolt on that.
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  Speaker 1: But even on this, I mean, you have Ron Dea Santis,
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  Speaker 1: the governor of Florida, unveiled He's already unveiled his own
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  Speaker 1: what he calls here, I'm reading it here a citizen's
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  Speaker 1: Bill of Rights for artificial intelligence. And the proposals he's
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  Speaker 1: presenting are the types of things that a lot of
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  Speaker 1: lawmakers left and right would like to be talking about,
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  Speaker 1: including protecting consumers from from anxiety inducing things like deep fakes,
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  Speaker 1: data collections, chat box, it's engaging with minors, chatbots posing
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  Speaker 1: as mental health experts. You know how to deal with
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  Speaker 1: fraudulent use of our names and likeness. You have the
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  Speaker 1: revolt of people thinking that these data centers are the
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  Speaker 1: reasons why our electricity bills are spiking all over the country.
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  Speaker 1: There certainly appears to be a direct correlation, for instance,
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  Speaker 1: in the state I live in Virginia. So it is
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  Speaker 1: you know, I think it is worth noting how much
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  Speaker 1: this is more than just you know, in some ways,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes I bring it up as very singular issues, you know,
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to well, what are we going to
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  Speaker 1: do about AI job displacement, what are we going to
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  Speaker 1: do about these data centers? Or what are we going
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  Speaker 1: to do about you know, kids in schools. There is
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  Speaker 1: a larger sort of tech in our lives, right, and
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  Speaker 1: there is a growing feeling that we have less and
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  Speaker 1: less choice of how do we how tech interacts with us.
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  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, that's it's almost a universal
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  Speaker 1: sort of political complaint, right. You will get a revolt
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  Speaker 1: of the masses when there is a feeling that control
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  Speaker 1: that they used to have they no longer have, right,
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  Speaker 1: control that we all used to have. We feel as
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  Speaker 1: if we no longer have I mean, you know, I
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  Speaker 1: go back take the there's a there's a there's a
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  Speaker 1: movement to try to sort of flip the script on
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  Speaker 1: the Internet. Right, instead of us having to agree to
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  Speaker 1: terms and conditions to use apps that big tech asks
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  Speaker 1: us to click yes on that, it's the other way
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  Speaker 1: around that when they want access to our data, they
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  Speaker 1: have to ask us permission. Right. It's a little bit
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  Speaker 1: what the Europeans have been trying to do and their
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: ability to regulate interactions between social media or AI and
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  Speaker 1: the general public. But this is, you know, none of
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  Speaker 1: this is unpopular, right, And it is interesting to watch
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  Speaker 1: the Trump administration wanting to barrel through. They've gone they
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  Speaker 1: have sort of are they they want government and AI
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  Speaker 1: to be fused together. They bought they accept the premise
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  Speaker 1: that America has to win the AI race. Right. I
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  Speaker 1: think a lot of the AI tech founders have convinced
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration that if they attempt any restrictions, China
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  Speaker 1: is going to win the I race. And it's it's
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  Speaker 1: like it's the plot of the most recent Mission Impossible. Right,
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  Speaker 1: whoever gets to the finish line first suddenly controls the globe.
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  Speaker 1: Right is sort of the fear I think that has
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  Speaker 1: been presented to the Trump administration and may explain why
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  Speaker 1: they're going along with this idea. And of course I
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  Speaker 1: think there's a reason there's a lot of us that
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  Speaker 1: are very skeptical of just racing down this road. You know,
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  Speaker 1: if you like the way the tech companies introduce social
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  Speaker 1: media into society, then by all means, let them go
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  Speaker 1: unrestricted introducing artificial intelligence into society. But if we look
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: at what social media has done, and we look at
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  Speaker 1: it as a failure, not a success. And that's the thing,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: is social media been a success or a failure? If
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  Speaker 1: in some ways there are successful elements to it, there
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  Speaker 1: are plenty of people that have made money off of it.
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  Speaker 1: It has certainly allowed more access to influence and attention
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: from around the world, but it is destroyed truth. Right.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Why do we have so much skepticism about truth where
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: we're having a debate about what is true and what
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: isn't could arguably blame the algorithms and social media. And
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  Speaker 1: so to me, it's not surprising that you have an
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  Speaker 1: electorate that it won't take much to fire up against
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  Speaker 1: the forces of Silicon Valley, because when you start to
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  Speaker 1: say do you want to have artificial intelligence introduced into
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  Speaker 1: society in a similar way that social media was. Or
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  Speaker 1: do you want more guard rails? I promise you you
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  Speaker 1: probably get seventy to eighty percent supporting that. No, there
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  Speaker 1: better be more guard rails as we introduce artificial intelligence
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  Speaker 1: into society than there was during social media. And so
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  Speaker 1: you put all this together and you can start to
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  Speaker 1: see and I still think this is not going you know,
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  Speaker 1: I think these will be debate talking points in twenty
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: twenty six. I think you will certainly see various candidates
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  Speaker 1: test driving some of these things. A citizen bill of
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  Speaker 1: rights on when it comes to the implementation of artificial
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: intelligence will certainly, I think pop up in governor's races
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  Speaker 1: in particular, and this cycle will have is the big
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  Speaker 1: cycle for governor's races. I do think it'll be really
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  Speaker 1: the presidential campaign that'll make this more of a national issue, right,
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  Speaker 1: because that's when you're gonna you know, there'll be when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to the job displacement issue, I think that
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  Speaker 1: is what will feel more front center. And then of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: course we want to see what is the state of
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: this economy. Right, this is an economy that is not
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a good economy, but it is being essentially rescued right
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: now by AI investment. Right, you have a whole bunch
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of you know, I talked to one smart observer of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the financial and a trained economist who said to me today,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: actually that we're already in a recession. We just haven't
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: you know, the numbers just aren't out yet, and it won't.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: You know, it looks like productivity is doing okay because
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: of just how much investment the sort of the six
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: or seven largest companies in the world are making into
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  Speaker 1: artificial intelligence. It's essentially up and up America's GDP. It's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: sort of propping all these things up. So it's masking
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: what is likely a recession for half the country. Right
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: there are parts of the you know, there's certainly the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: one percent and those with some savings and some money
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: in the stock demartment. They are they are not experiencing
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: the recession. But for the for the other half of America,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: they are experiencing recession. Right there. They have costs or
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: too much. Right, you have an affordability issue on health care,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: and affordability issue and groceries, and affordability issue on housing.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: These are things that you just can't skip. You can't
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: pinch pennies on right, you might be able to you
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: might be able to skip some things and try to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: save money in certain places, it's not like you can
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: delay paying a health insurance premium and and risk to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: go without health care. So this affordability crisis and this
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: recessionary feel that those that don't have that are paycheck
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to paycheck, that don't have a bunch of savings in
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the stock market is pretty acute, which transitions me pretty
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: well to what was, you know, another debacle by Trump
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and this economy and his rally in Pennsylvania. Every time
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: this administration over the last couple of weeks, frankly, it's
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: been about two or three months that they try to
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: get you know, it's clear his own staff realizes they
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: have at least they have a political problem, if not
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a real problem. Right, they know they have a political
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: problem messaging on the economy. And how do I know
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that they all know? Because JD. Vance on Wednesday morning
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: basically was desperately trying to re explain Trump's comments from
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania where he started calling it a hoax and then
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: he started, I mean to me, he went down this
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: road again where okay, well, you know, you know, your
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: little girl doesn't need thirty seven dollars, they can handle one.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Your child doesn't need fifty pencils, they can just have
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: one or two. It is such a tone deaf Let
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: them eat cake, mindset. Right, It's as if we have
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: President Marie Antoinette here, and it really rings as super
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: out of touch. And it's clear you of people like
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Jade Vance realizing how bad this is. So he tweets
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: this morning, which is just the fun. I'm gonna read
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: his tweet, and then Joe Biden's insane policies left American
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: families unable to afford a decent living in their own country.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Through tax cuts, better paying jobs, and investment in American industry,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: prisoner Trump is making America affordable again for working families,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: one step at a time. Right. They're trying so hard
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: to explain this economy, but they're making the same mistake
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: that the Biden White House made, which is, hey, you
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: you feel like this economy and good, You're wrong. This
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: economy is doing We're doing really well, and it's healing,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and this is happening, and this is happening. You know.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: In Biden's case, he kept leaning on, look at all
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the new jobs that are being created, look at all
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the money that's being invested. Well, in some ways, Trump
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: is trying to make the Trump and Vance are trying
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to make the same case. Hey, you know, we're spending
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: all this money and we cut your taxes, and oh,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: by the way, look at the stock market and look
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: at all these deals that we're doing, but pay no
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: attention to how tariffs are increasing your every day your
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: everyday bills. So the trumpet, the Trump White House is
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: walking into appears to be the same trap as Biden there,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: you know, want to tell the public, don't don't believe
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: what you're feeling. That's essentially right. It was essentially the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: message that Biden was communicating on the economy, that Harris
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was communicating on the economy, until they realized now they
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: had to be they had to sort of do a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: little I feel your pain. You know, Vance here trying
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to do a little bit of I feel your pain.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: But Trump wasn't going to go there under and if anything,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: he sounded dismissive and defensive. And that's just you know,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: this we've we've already seen in you know, another week,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: another election that indicates that Republicans are troubled there's a
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  Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win special elections and
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: runoffs that took place on Tuesday. The most prominent race
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: was the City of Miami mayor. And for those of
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you are wondering, Miami Dade County elects a county mayor.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: That is a very powerful position. It's a strong mayor.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's a huge budget. Miami Dade County's budget is bigger
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: than many states, you know, probably nearly half the states.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It is that large and complicated a county, the City
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of Miami and the City of Miami mayor. City of
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Miami is a is one of thirty plus incorporated cities
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: within Miami Dade County, but it does have the brand
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: City of Miami, so is the Mayor of Miami, you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: when which is for those you know, there's the mayor
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: of Miami Dade County and then there's the mayor of
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the City of Miami. So this was a runoff for
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the mayor of the City of Miami. Now in the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: City of Miami, it's it is there is a strong,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: large Cuban American population, and you've had nearly a generation
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: of Cuban Republicans who have won that mayor's rate won
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that office over and over by the way the office itself,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: it's considered a weak mayor position. It's a part time job.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: If you recall, the previous mayor of Francis Suarez had
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: all sorts of jobs, private sector jobs that he was
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: that he held while simultaneously being mayor. He got a
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: little brazen about it, so it gathered a lot more attention.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: But it's considered a part time job, and it is
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: allowed to have other jobs. But the point is is
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that that's how quote unquote small the job is. And it's
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and like I said, it's a weak mare system, which
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: means you're just you've got the title, but you're essentially no.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: No had the same amount of power as a city
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: council person that's elected. So but symbolically it's a big deal.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And it's the first time Democrats have won the mayor's
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: race in over thirty years. Now, it is worth noting
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris actually carried the city of Miami even as
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump carried the county of Miami Dade, which in
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: itself was a surprising development. So but the margin that
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the Democrat won this race and the fact that it
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: was the first time in thirty years, and oh, by
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the way, there was a special election that no one
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: was paying attention to in a state house seat in
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Georgia that flipped a twenty plus point Trump district that flipped.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: We're starting it's the same pattern. We'sa on Tennessee seven
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and that special same pattern we saw in twenty twenty five.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: There's somewhere between a ten to fifteen to in some
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: places twenty point overperformance by Democrats. Now, why is this happening? One,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you have fired up Democratic voters. Two Democratic voters in general.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Are Democrats now have the more reliable voters the voters
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: you know we're divided on education. It's another way of saying,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you know, who's paying attention to the minutia more so?
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And who's who the voters that parachute in for presidential elections. Well,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the Democrats now have the line's share of the voters
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that are paying attention to all political minutia versus Republicans
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: are the ones that we'll see it turnout spike now
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: in presidential years. It's a total reverse of what it was.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: What it was for the eighties, nineties and even the
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: first part of the twenty first century. But we have
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: now seen this is as as sort of Trump created
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a realignment of the party the way he did. The
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: less reliable voter who used to be more likely voting
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Democrat than Republican. Now that less likely voter more likely
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: votes Republican the Democrat. Which is why Democrats are overperforming
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: in all these special elections, all these non presidential elections,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: whether it was the Supreme Court race in Wisconsin right
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: after Trump got elected, or it's what we just saw
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: earlier this week in the city of Miami or in
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the state of Georgia, the everyday regular voter is just
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: showing up and that it is benefiting Democrats. Then you
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: throw in what is a sort of a growing demoralized
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: base of the Republican Party. Right, it's best expressed of
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: watching what's happening in the House, where you have more
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: and more Republicans getting cranky about not having any plan
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: on healthcare. Apparently Mike Johnson seemed to hint that, oh,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: you know, we're going to have a healthcare plan and
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: really soon, and you're like, you are, you've had let's see,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: when did Obamacare pass. Obamacare passed in March of twenty ten,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: so they've had Republicans have had fifteen years to come
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: up with a healthcare plan alternative, and what they just
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: in another week they'll finally have one. Let's just say,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: there's quite a bit of skepticism on that, and it's
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: deserved skepticism. And at this point, it doesn't look like
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: they're going to get a healthcare compromise before the end
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of the year. But I'll be honest, I think it's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: gonna come. I told you I think in the earlier
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: episode earlier this week, the outlines of a potential compromise
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: that will probably be more to the liking of Democrats
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and Republicans is coming together in the House, and at
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: some point it will take Donald Trump just saying go
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: ahead and pass it. I'll support it, and I'll give
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: you cover. That's still but we are now to the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: point where it looks like these are going to expire
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and they're going to have to retroactively end up giving
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: giving people the subsidies back. I am, you know, maybe
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be eating crow on this, but I'm still convinced
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: that something's going to pass. These subsidies are going to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: get extended a year or two. I think the only
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: thing Republicans have effectively said no to is the full
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: as a three year extension, which is technically what Democrats
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: have been asking for. But somewhere in the in the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: two year range one to two year range, it is coming.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: It's just at what point does Trump cry uncle? And
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: at this point it's not clear that he's ready to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: cry uncle just yet. Before I get to the interview
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: with Julie Chelfo and Mothers Against Media Addiction and Mama
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: as the acronym spells, I want to just weigh in
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: on two things that are sort of business business see
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: issues that I'm actually particularly with one issue, I want
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. I want to hear from the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: listeners and viewers on two things. One do you pay
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: attention to the prediction markets i e. Polymarket or Calshi. Two?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: If you do, what is it that you pay attention to?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Is cultural predictions? Is it sports predictions? Is it political predictions? Three?
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Do you participate? You know so, I will make a
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: full confession. I participated for the very first time on
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the Calshi markets over the weekend, and it had to
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: do with the I was doing it simply to see
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: if anybody was leaking the information of the college football
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: playoff bracket So on Saturday, I sort of for the
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: first time, you know, I signed up for a Calshi account,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and I bought shares of Miami making the playoff, and
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I bought shares of twenty five cents, which really meant that,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: you know, essentially what the market was saying, they have
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they have a one and four shot of making the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: playoff or so. In the prediction markets, it was said
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Notre Dame was in the ninety nineties, it was like
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: ninety two ninety three percent tile and Alabama was in
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the mid seventies seventy four or seventy five percentile. So
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I did it because I was mostly curious to see
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: if this was going to leak and we were going
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to see people try to manipulate the prediction markets, like
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: we saw with the Nobel Peace Prize, where it turned
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: out the information got out. I think it wasn't an
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: official leak. It was I think somebody hacked into a
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: website and saw a website preview before folks knew, and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you saw the prediction markets move
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: as if they knew something. As it turned out, they
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: did know something. And I just wanted to see if
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: somebody was going to do that. So I was as
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I was waiting for the college football playoff, I was
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: watching this happen and you would see a lot of volatility,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't a hundred percent, you know. It was
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: like now people think they know, but they don't know. Right,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: you could see how that works. It gave me some reassurance.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I was glad to see it. You know that something
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you know, whether it leaking or somebody wasn't trying to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: gain the system. And obviously I ended up making a
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: couple of bucks on how that worked. I actually was
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: monitoring it was I was I assumed that Miami's that
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: the share price of the Miami prediction was going to
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: go up sooner than it did, Like it didn't. Really.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: It's clear the prediction markets did not believe Miami was
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: was going to get in, and that to me is
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: a reflection of what the conversation was. Right, If if
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: nobody has information, then they're basing it on sort of
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the zeitgeist. Right. But I bring this up because recently
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: CNN signed to deal with Calshi where they're going to
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: in some form it start including or noting what the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: prediction markets are saying about topics they might be covering.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: So for instance, yesterday we saw the Federal Reserve cut
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: interest rates. Well, that was a market you could bet
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: on or you could you know, prediction marketing are and
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: it was it was in the seventies over the last
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you know, a few days, and then it got up
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: today eighty five, ninety, et cetera. But as much as
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I do enjoy sports gambling, okay, you've heard me reference
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: it before, some of you know I do football picks
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: for Tony Kornheiser on his podcast, I fully confess to
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: enjoying it, but I've been extraordinarily uncomfortable with the idea
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: of betting on politics or betting on elections. I haven't
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: ruled it. I'm not I'm not trying to be, you know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: sort of a school barm about this, but it is
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not yet comfortable with it. And I'm curious what
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: you guys think, and I'm asking you send me, send questions,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: put some comments in the comment section, or go ahead
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: and send us a send us comment via ask Chuck,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and we'll we'll dive into it next week. You know,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of fear out there that do
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you you know, at what point I believe in the
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: wisdom of crowds and at the same time I don't
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: want to see crowds manipulate an outcome, right, And you
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: know what is that line? You know, what should be
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: something that is okay, it's okay to that, and what
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: is something that is should we really be betting on this?
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I'll give you an example. I'm gonna let
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: me put up a pull up a few a few
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: things that they offer up that I some things that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: make sense and others that don't. So, for instance, Calsh
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: will allow you to bet on what the Federal reserves
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: here J. Powell will say during his December press conference,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and the choices are, will he attribute terror inflation to
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the tariffs? Will he says if he says dot plot
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: at his December twenty twenty five posts, you know, meeting
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of the Federal Reserve, that would be somehow a win here.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: If if he uses if he refers to the ADP report,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: apparently that would somehow be something you could win a
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: bet on it. There's sort of like it's one thing
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: to bet on whether there'll be an interest rate cut,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: which again you know I'm uncomfor, you know, the State
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: of Virginia. Let me give you an example. The State
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of Virginia does not allow in its sports mobile app
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: for people to gamble on who might win an award.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Like if I wanted to gamble on the on who
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: wins the Heisman Trophy, State of Virginia wouldn't do that.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: They are very strict. And how what they approved for gambling,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and that was games of chance, right, And and a
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: sporting event in some ways is something that isn't knowable
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: beforehand versus in theory there is somebody that will know
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the answer to who won the Heisman Trophy before it
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: is announced, versus an actual sporting event that we're all
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: watching in real time. Right, And so they have decided
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: not to legalized bets on outcomes that some committee or
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: group of people may know in advance. And that's I
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: think the line here. You got to ask yourself, like, look,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: you can bet on who will be the Democratic nominee,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: or excuse me, buy shares of who you think will
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: be the Democratic nominee. You can buy shares of who
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you think Trump will nominate to be Fed chair. Okay,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: but how do we know somebody within Trump's circle isn't
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: gaming this and isn't going to you know, try to
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: make money on this with quote insider information. Right in
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: the actual financial markets, it is illegal to insider trade, right,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: And there's no doubt there'll be some Certainly the rules
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: about insider trading will apply to this if it's ever
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: if it's ever shown. But then there are things like
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: when will Trump announce his new chair the Federal Reserve?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So this is something that you can Will it be
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: before December twentieth, well, that's sixth sense. Will it be
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: before or the end of the calendar year? That's twenty
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: five percent believe that Will it be before January fifteenth
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: another seventy two percent? And then you know, I guess
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: everybody would get their money back if none of those hit,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: or everybody loses if none of those hit. But if
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: you're you know, if you already know the answer to this,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: or you're long on something and you've got access to Trump,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and you know what, if we have a president who's
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: extraordinarily transactional and who's open to somebody financially lobbying them,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: which is a more polite way of saying, Brian, And
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying I have no idea whether
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: we would ever have an American president who would be
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: transactional like that on things like pardons or whatever. But
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: that's the part of this that I will admit gives
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: me some pause. There's some parts of this that feels
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: like the Democratic nominee in Texas that looking at those markets,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: that's interesting of interest to me. In case you're wondering
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: right now, Tall Rico is fifty six cents and Jasmine
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Crockett is at forty two cents. So that's not what
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the polling says right now, but this is what betters
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: or predictors, I guess you would say, believe is going
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: to be the outcome of that. And so look, they've
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: been betting on elections in the UK, you could bet
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: on American elections and overseas markets from before. But I
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: guess what I'm getting at here is if we're going
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: to go down this road, there probably needs to be
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: a bit more regulation around it. There probably needs to
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: be sort of a line drawn in the sand that is, hey,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: this is a that's a manipulation. That's too that's too
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: much of a thing that can be manipulated. So take
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: this question that you can bet on the following on
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Calshi who will visit mar A Lago BEFO twenty six
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and you can just and there's all sorts of choices
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: that you can buy shares of Benjamin Nett Yahoo. That's
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: according to Kooshi that that's the leading prediction on that
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: one at eighty seven cents out of a dollar. Mbs
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabia that's at thirteen, he's second on the list.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Zelenski's at ten cents. He's third on the list. Sam
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Altman's at seven, Brittany Mahomes is at five, Jamie Diamond
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: is at five, Jerome Pals at four, Kim Kardashian is
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: at two. You know, it's kind of silly, right, But
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: here's something else. There was a huge spike for net
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Yahoo over the last day or two, and I think
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: there's an assumption that he's going to somehow make his
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: way out here. He's desperate for Trump to continue to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: lobby for a pardon on his behalf with the is
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: with the President of Israel, so there may be some
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: motivation there. But it's one of those things that feels
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: like somebody already knows the answer, but the public didn't
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: see it. So we have a betting market on it, right. Look,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: we're a free country. If you choose to do this
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: with your money, it's your choice to do this with
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: the money. The question I have is how comfortable are
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you with news organizations incorporating this into their coverage, which
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: is a decision seeing in may. You know, we already
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: have a lot of people that I think correctly complain
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that our campaign coverage is always focused on the polls, right,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: that it's horse race coverage. Will this make all political
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and policy coverage horse race coverage? You know? Are we
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: going to see stories about the debate over extending healthcare
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: subsidies and oh, by the way, the prediction markets, well,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: they think there's going to be a deal, and that
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: there'll be a deal to extend these subsidies sometime by
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: the end of January. There may not be any reporting
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: that says that it may be true, it may not
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: be true. Is that stuff worth incorporating in reporting if
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: you're seeing it and look, in fairness to them, let's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: see how they use it, let's say how they incorporate it.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: But again, I do this more as you can hear
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: in my voice as somebody who again I am I
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: am I'm a bit libertarian on the vices, right. You
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: want to legalize cannabis, you want to, you know, put
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: a high age element on it, legalize other vices. I'm
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: gambling things like that. I'm I'm you know, that's your business, right,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I'm I am, I am. I am an empathetic libertarian here.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: The question is whether our political debate, our policy debates,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: are they going to be enhanced or harmed by the
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: casinification of news. So obviously you can hear my hesitance
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: on this, you can hear my concern on this, but
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not unpersuadable on this. So that's why I am
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: this is one of those I'd love to hear what
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: many of you think on this, whether any of you
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: have enough of an opinion to express it to me
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: if you don't want to put your name on and
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I get that too, by the way, on this, so
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: please do shoot me an ope on this. Where are
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you on these prediction markets? You know, I am a
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: gawker of them. I'm fascinated to see a lot of
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: times it's just representative of what the zeitgeist is already saying,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: or what the polling is indicating, or what reporting has
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: already been out there. So you know, for instance, they've
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: got a market of which world leaders will be out
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: by the end of the year. Which world leader do
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: you think is number one on their list? If you
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: said Nicholas Maduro, you'd be right, right, Well, that's common sense,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: But there's actually it's only trading at eleven cents, which
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: means it's essentially the prediction markets believe there's only a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: one in essentially a one and ten chance that Maduro
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: is out before the end of this calendar year. Does
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: that matter to you? Does that at all? And here's
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the thing. It may have no impact whatsoever, But the
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: minute I reported that, have I planted a seat in
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: your head and somehow created a form of sort of
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: news consumption bias, if you will, right, So anyway, it's
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: that's the beauty of this format is is we can
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: sort of throw out this idea. I'm not going to
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: sit here and pretend that i have concerns, I'm intrigued,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm wrapped and it's and I have my own
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: hesitations and all of those things. So I'd love for
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: you to share that. So with that, I'm gonna sneak
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: it a break when we come back my conversation with
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the founder of Mama Mothers Against Media Addiction, and then
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: after the interview, we'll do a little last chuck and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I'll do a little bit of my weekend sport preview.
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  Speaker 1: So joining me today under of something called MAMA. That's
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the acronym. It is Mother's against Media Addiction. The founder
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: is Julia excuse me, Julie Sheelfell. She's a former New
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: York Times reporter has become a bit of I think,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: a media ecologist of sorts. And look you as many
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: of you know, many of my listeners here know that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how we rebuild trust in the
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: information ecosystem, how can we clean up the information ecosystem?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And one of the more remarkable things in this polarized
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: environment is that what's been interesting is that the only
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: time we can find areas of agreement is when it
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: is about protecting our kids online social media. And so
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: as we try to figure out how big tech is
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: going to build AI and will they do it safely
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: or not? Given the experience with social media, I figured
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: this would be a really good conversation because I want
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: to learn more about mama. So, Julie, welcome to the podcast.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Hi Chuck, thank you so much for having me. It's
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: a pleasure to be here.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: So let's start with you know this, you know look,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I'm in I just got out of an hour long
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: meeting in a nonprofit group I'm involved with called Trust
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: in Media and where it's just something like what can
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: we do to repair and rebuild trust in all sorts
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: of institutions right sort of the information ecosystem that was
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: sort of at the at the heart of the What's
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: interesting about this organization that I'm working with is that
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it includes folks in the national security space and and
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: folks in the business space, and in health and in
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: sports as well as news and politics. And you're tackling
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: this from a from a youth space, and as we
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: transition from fearing social media to fearing AI. This is
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I think a pretty relevant conversation. So I want to
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: start with what motivated you to do this? I think
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: it's obvious in some cases, but are you impressed without
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: quickly we actually have come together on the issue of
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: at least our phones and schools.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so there were like three questions in that's
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: what I did. I'm gonna work backwards. So so I
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was moved to start Mama for a couple reasons.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: One is that did you start it?
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: By the way, So I incorporated her in twenty twenty three.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: We only announced ourselves publicly early last year, so we're
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: not even two years old yet. But a few years
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: before that, I gave a ted talk because I was
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: so deeply concerned about erosion of trust and information and
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: what was happening in our media environments. And having spent
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: my career in professional newsrooms. I was at the New
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: York Times and before that I was at Newsweek. I
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: sort of watched the rise of digital media and how
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: these legacy news organizations responded to it. And what was
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: very clear to me, what was very unfortunate is that
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: even though journalists are really good at understanding and vetting
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: information quality. They weren't trained in media literacy, and they
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: didn't understand how what they publish and how what they
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: communicated communicated. But they were communicating online and on television
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: was helping shape the information environment. And so you know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: the question about regaining trust is a big one, and
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I hope we can talk about it more later in
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: the show. But specifically for Mama, I was reporting a
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: lot on youth mental health and suicide. And it was
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: about a decade ago that we saw a terrible increase
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: in suicide rates among American adolescents. And I reported on
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: that and it was manifestly obvious that social media was
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: at the heart of that problem. And then, as sad
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: as that story was, we saw suicide rates go up
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: not just in teens, but in tweens, which your children
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: as young as nine to ten. Now I'm a mom,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I have three sons, and reporting that story really shook
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: me to my core. When you have nine ten year olds,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: ten year old children who want to die, something is
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: profoundly messed up. Because I run Mama, I won't use
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: the crude language that's really in my head about that
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: how messed up that is, But I realized something had
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: to be done. And what has to be done is
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: that this information environment has to be brought under control
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: so that it's safe for children.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: And that's you know, I look at this movement right
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: of what we've seen about trying to at least take
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: bones out of classrooms, and you know, when I see
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: how hard it is to get to the left and
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: the right to agree on anything, and it is the
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: one thing, whether it's a super liberal state legislature, super
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: conservative state legislature, this stuff has made it through. This
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: is the one place it has made it through. I
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: fear we're too late on social media, but maybe this
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: gets us there on AI.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: So I don't think we're too late on social media
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: because every day a child is growing up and being
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: exposed to things through these platforms, and every day that
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: we allow a handful of companies to share whatever they
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: want with whoever they want, under any circumstances, with no
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: regulation is a day that we are leaving our children
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: vulnerable to terrible harms. When I was reporting my stories,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: we didn't have data about the amount of suicide and
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: self harm content. Meta released data on it just last year,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: and according to Meta's own report, there were forty eight
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: million separate pieces of suicide and self harm content on
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: their platforms in the previous year, and that's just the
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: pieces that they'll acknowledge. There's probably a lot more than that. So,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: you know, as long as we've had mass media, beginning
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties with radio, our government has regulated it.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: It is said, there need to be limits, there need
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: to be standards. It's not censoring free speech. It's just
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: recognizing that not all content is appropriate in all places
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: for all audiences. I don't think we want a world.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: You know, if we allowed every single course vulgar X
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: rated activity on our regular television channels and on the radio,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: you know what kind of world would we have. So
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: I'm not exact.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Way that world does exist. It's the Internet. I mean,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: we've let this happen on the Internet and nobody wanted this, right, Like,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: we know we don't like this, but we can't agree
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: on how to stop this.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there is actually pretty wide consensus on
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: how to stop it. I think we also are just
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: facing an industry that has unlimited amounts of money and
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: they are spending on godly amounts of money on lobbying
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Our friends in an organization called Issue one have been
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: tracking this and they have found that the tech big
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: tech industry has one one lobbyist for every two lawmakers
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: in Washington, and Meta alone has won one lobbyist for
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: every seven lawmakers. So you know what's happening is, even
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: though there's wide agreement among most lawmakers and most parents
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: and most citizens, you have big tech spending on godly
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: and holy amounts of money and getting just a few
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: people who are really messing up legislation. I mean, one
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: example is the Kids Online Safety Act, which passed last
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: year in the Senate by a vote of ninety one
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: to three, which like, when does that happen? And over
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: in the House, Speaker Johnson refused to bring it for
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: a vote. Steve Scalise says it wasn't good legislation and
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: nobody could understand why. And then it was announced that
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Meta is building a twenty eight billion dollar AI data
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: processing plant in the state which you know, I don't know.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Does that have something to do with it?
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe in the state of I assume you mean state
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: of Louisiana.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: The state of Louisiana.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Yep, Johnson and and Scalize, Yeah, no, and we're seeing
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: the same thing with AI. I mean, take the take
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the issue of this moratorium from states being able to
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: regulate AI that I do think is become I think
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: it's now too toxic to support. I think we'll find.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Out, right I well, I hope you're right.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're going to find out and maybe
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: unfortunately this gets can't tell you how many pieces of
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: really harmful legislation gets snuck in in the month of December.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: It's historically because everybody's in holiday mode. It'll just can
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: can sometimes get So I think we are in the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: month of December when we're taping this and when this
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: is when people are listening to this, So there's always
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: a chance this is something that gets snuck in. But
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: it does seem as if there's enough opposition. But I
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: know you're working on this.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, our members have been sending thousands of letters.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: And for those of your listeners who aren't familiar with this,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: the tech industry is trying to get this sweetheart deal
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: passed where they would pass a federal law saying there
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: can be no state regulation of AI. And this is
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: such a profound violation of states' rights and their fundamental
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: ability to keep their citizens safe that we had forty four.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I think attorneys general send a letter to the Senate
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: when this was being considered earlier this year in the
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Big Beautiful Bill, saying this is outrageous. You can't do this.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Hundreds of lawmakers of both parties, so you can't do this,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And it came out of the Big Beautiful Bill. Now
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: they're trying to sneak it back into the Defense Reauthorization Act.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: And we're also hearing there's the possibility of an executive order.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: So you know, the way the draft was worded, it's
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: so vague. It would not only prohibit states from regulating AI,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: it would prohibit them from regulating social media. So nobody
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: wants this, and it would just be a real boon
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: to a handful of billionaires who own these companies.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you brought up the executive order because
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: it does seem as if that was that was going
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: to be the tech community's last resort. And that does
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: look like that's going to happen, doesn't it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: That's right, you know, I hope it doesn't. I do
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: think even if it does happen, it's so problematic that
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: it's unlikely to be enforced right away.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't think it's by the way,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's enforceable, and I think there'll be
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: some states that basically like, let's go, we're going to
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: we're going to do some regulate Let go ahead and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: try to stop us. Yeah.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how like, in what other industry do
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: we say, Okay, you can just do whatever you want.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: You know, we regulate our food to make sure it's safe.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: We regulate our vehicles to make sure they're safe. We
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: don't want to live in a world where companies are
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: not required to test cars and make sure the breaks
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: work before you get them.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Well, this gets into something that I think is one
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: of those do you know one of the ways the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: advocates of low regulation right now in AI, one of
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: the arguments they make is, hey, we did this with
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the internet. We have very little regulation. And my retort
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: always is, and how did that go? Right? Like, we
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: decided to have a hands off approach on social media
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: and that turned out to be a colossal mistake. Now
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I happen to believe social media, I mean, here's the problem.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: I think this has been a disaster. I think it
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: something that destroys the information ecosystem, that destroys trust, that
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: breaks up families. This is not a successful business, and
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: yet we want to create the same regulatory environment to
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: allow AI to thrive, and we think that's going to
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: be good because of the experience with social media. And
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I do think this is why there's more public and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: there's more bipartisan pushback on this because I think if
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: you frame the question of do you want the tech
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: companies to have this to use this same lack of
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: rules of the game to build AI as they build
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: social media? Do you trust the same people that build
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: social media to build AI? I think the answers no.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, it's not a successful business for families, for society,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: for democracy, for children, but it is for shareholders and
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: for a handful of people who own these companies. And
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: what we're seeing is this really unprecedented alliance between a
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: few people at the highest levels of government and the
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: folks who own these companies. Now, everybody who has children
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: says that's not what's most important. You know, I have
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: no problem with people making money and building a successful company,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: but you should not be able to do it on
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: the backs of children, So you know, that is why
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Mama is working. We started, you know, hoping that we
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: could have six chapters by the end of the first year.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: We were sort of inspired by mothers against drunk driving
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: and the way they had chapters around the country. Instead,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: we're up to nearly forty chapters in twenty two states.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Our members are working in their homes, in their communities,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: in their schools, and with policymakers to advance changes, just
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: like we had to make big changes once we learned
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: about the harms of big tobacco, saying okay, it shouldn't
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: be normative that we give this to young children. It
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be okay that we load it full of chemicals
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: that can cause cancer. And we have to ensure that
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: we're both using it in a safe way and that
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: the manufacturers of these products are held to basic safety standards.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Glad you brought up tobacco. I was actually that was
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: the next way I was going to ask, which is
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: what lessons are there to take away from the essentially
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: what was a thirty year fight, but it was the
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: public one. Right tobacco. You know, it's not gone, but
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: it is it is now where it should be available
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: to those who want it for adults and adults only.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: It's a great example, and I think this fight is
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: a lot like big tobacco in some ways, and there
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: are a few differences. And what's similar is that big
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: tech and social media products and technology in general is
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: so embedded in our society that in order to shift
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: how we use it, to shift how we regulate it,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: it's going to take change at multiple levels. So, just
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: like with big tobacco, we need culture change. We need
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of education so that people think about it differently.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: We had to go back to Hollywood, you know, whereas
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: tobacco companies had paid them to write scripts where the
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: sexy leading men and women were smokers. We had to
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: convince them to make sure that the sexy men and
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: women leading you know, stars were not smoking. We had
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: to get rid of Joe Camel. So there had to
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: be a lot of public education. And then there were
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: also lawsuits, and we're seeing with organizations like the Social
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Media Victims Law Center and other lawmakers where they are
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: suing these companies because the companies are claiming it's not
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: their fault that children are harmed. But now the courts
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: are hearing cases where for example, you know, and apologies
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: to talk about a difficult subject in listeners, just like
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: a kind of a trigger warning. But you know, I've
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: met families whose children were sent, affirmatively sent by Instagram
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: of videos of someone hanging themselves, and then their child replicated.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: We had a little girl in Pennsylvania who tried the
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: choking challenge after the platform sent it to her, And
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: so courts are now hearing that. And that's just like
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: what happened with Big Toma.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Well, this is this whole thing was sexual section two thirty.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: You know, I've had this argument, I'm not a lawyer.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I played one on I've played one on television. Was
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: how I joke And basically every reporter over time sort
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: of starts to think like a lawyer at times. Right,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: And I don't understand how Section two thirty even applies
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: that once a tech company creates an algorithm, they're now
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: a publisher. If they choose not to be a publisher,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: then they don't have any liability. But the minute they
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: created an algorithm, as you point out, they sent the video,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: they are It's no different than in our old newspaper
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: editors deciding what goes what goes on the above the
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: fold that people can see in the news box where
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: you you still when were you still? Sorry for those
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: of that don't remember this, we need to go it.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Actually put a quarter in and get your newspaper out
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: of a box and went quote unquote below the fall.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: It's a choice. A algorithm is a choice that the
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: tech company makes. I don't see how Section two thirty
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: applies at all.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I think instead of calling at social media, we
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: should be calling at mass media publishing, because that's what
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: it is. And so when you hear the tech lobby saying, well,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: this is you know, First Amendment. The First Amendment guarantees
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: us the right to free speech. It doesn't guarantee you
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: the right to publish speech. It doesn't guarantee you the
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: right to broadcast speech, and it doesn't guarantee you the
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: right to mass mediated speech. So for the last century
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: we've had all kinds of laws and restrictions and accountability
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: for publishers, for broadcasters, and we allow social media to
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: come in and turn anybody and everybody into a publisher
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: without any accountability. So, you know, in terms of your
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: opening question about how do we get the information ecosystem
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: back on track. I think that it's pretty simple. We
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: have to pass some regulation that holds people accountable for
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: what they publish. And again, advertisers supported speech is very
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: different than First Amendment speech, and social media is supported
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: by advertising, so that's another legal aspect of it that
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I think needs to be looked at.
• 58:32
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• 59:59
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• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: is something you should really think about, especially if you've
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: got a growing family. Oh, it used to drive me
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: crazy during the during sort of when we were more
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: talking about what when Facebook was trying to deny any
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: culpability during the during the Russian influence operation, and it
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: was sort of like or you know, putting up advertisements
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: that were totally miss misleading. When I was at Meet
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: the Press, if we aired an ad that we knew
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: was misleading, We as the broadcaster, shared liability with the advertiser.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: In fact, in some ways we were we'd be held
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: more liable than the advertiser themselves. That is not how
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: it works on these platforms. Meta is you know, somebody
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: advertises in Instagram with a with a misleading ad. You
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: don't get to sue Meta for that. You only get
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: to sue I guess the company itself if you want
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: to do it. So there's that has to change. And
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: I and it's one of those where I don't understand.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: I don't understand. As you said, the laws that are
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: already on the book should already be applied like this idea.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: They have to be you know, they carved out this
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: separate and I think that's the mistake that was made.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I think that was a mistake that's made. I think
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: that you know, when some of these technologies were introduced,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: there were folks in Congress who didn't quite understand it.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: You know, as you know, we haven't passed a single
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: regulation federal regulation on social media since nineteen ninety eight,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: which is before social.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Media was no social media, so.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: You know, we are definitely behind and making sure these
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: products are safe. And we're seeing other countries take the
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: lead in protecting childhood.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Right yep, So let's talk about the core goal of
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: your group, right it's media addiction. And you know, I
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: started out by sort of trying to be hopeful and
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: noting that, Hey, look, the one place where politicians seem
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: to find agreement on this issue, like how do we
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: protect our children? And I've been heartened by all these
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: laws passed in the States on self abandoned schools. But
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: do you know what a lot of schools proactively do.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: I proactively give an iPad to every student that comes
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: in the classroom. In fact, there is a movement in
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: my neighborhood. It's a very small movement, but that's how
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: these movements start, right neighbor to neighbor, going, Hey, tell
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Arlington schools stop giving you know, teach out of books,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: not iPads.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: It's not just in your district, Chuck. We're seeing this nationwide.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: You know, Mama, Chapter leaders across the country have been
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: among the most vocal in their community to say to teachers,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: say to schools, this is not what we want teachers,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: and schools have sort of too quickly. I think bought
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: into this idea that if it's technological, it must be better.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: And we are now seeing the lowest reading in math
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: scores in our lowest performing children than we've seen since
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: the United States started measuring that back in the seventies.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: So there's just been a terrible decline in reading in
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: math performance that matches up exactly to the introduction of
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: tablets and laptops into classrooms. At MAMA, we're not anti tech.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: We think tech can be fun and tech can be helpful.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: We just don't think it should replace real life experiences
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: and interaction. And there's actually centuries of evidence that show
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: embodied learning experiences are critical for memory consolidation in the mind.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: That's how children learn by doing, so we know that
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: physically holding a book is affecting the mind in a
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: much different way than looking at it on a screen. So,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: you know, we have a three part mission at MAMA.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: It's parent education, it's getting phones out of school so
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: children can learn, and it's demanding safeguards that our lawmakers
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: act to ensure these products if they're going to be
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: out there, that they're safer kids.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: You know, So, do you think there's a you know,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: you think there's a an age where you don't even
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: you know, you say, okay, look because now you have
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: these like smartboards instead of chalkboards right where you're able
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: to do and that to me makes sense. You want
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: to have these smart boards. And you know, the upside
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: about having a textbook online is that it's always up
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: to date. It's always current, right, it's never out of
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: it's never now to date. You can quickly without having
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: to buy new textbooks. So there are reasons school districts
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: want to save money, right, which is to have some
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: of this stuff available. What's the Is there a regulatory
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: line we can create in legislation that says, okay, you know,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: we're not introducing any tech into classrooms until sixth grade?
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Is that is? That is? Is there enough studies to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: support a hard and fast line like that.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Well, so there's a lot of studies that support the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: delaying of technology and media for children as long as possible.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: The American Academy of Pediatric has for many, many years
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: recommended the most minimal amount of screens for your infant
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: and toddler as possible. If your child's under two, they
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: should not be exposed to a screen. If every once
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: in a while, you let your toddler talk to their
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: grandparents on FaceTime or Skype. I don't think it's such
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: a big deal, but nobody should be parking their infant
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: in front of a screen for entertainment because we know
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: it affects their brain development. And there is a researcher
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: who's been taking scans of preschoolers and finding that the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: ones who had screens have actual less white matter in
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: their brains. In terms of whether we could make a rule,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we live in a country where education is
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: decided state by state, and so every state does it differently.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: My recommendation again would be to delay these things as
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: long as possible. Now there's a lot of parents out
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: there saying we have to have our kids ready to
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: compete in a technological world, and I agree with that.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: But the question I always ask is, you know, if
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: you want your child to be a safe driver, for example,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: And we all agree that we want our children, once
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: they learn to drive, to be safe on the roads,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: But none of us think they should start learning to
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: drive at age seven, or age eight or age nine,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: because their brains and their bodies are not ready for that.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: And so for children, what we think is important is
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: that the foundational skills they need to be competent learners
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: are there before we introduce technology, and then we introduce
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: technology in a limited way so that they can learn
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: the skills they need, but that it doesn't overtake all
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: of their other learning.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I was at a Texas Tribune
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: festival a couple of weeks ago and saw a conversation
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: with the new president of SMU, who used to be
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: the president of UTI, and they were talking about, you know,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: over the last ten years, there had been this shift
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: away from kids majoring in sort of the liberal arts, right,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: majoring in English. In fact, you have universities dropping that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: as a major, right that there's more specificity that students
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: were leaning towards. And his thesis, his theory and what
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: he was going to bet on is that in the
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: next ten years that we were going to see a
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: turn back to the liberal arts. And in fact, he
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: thinks his job's going to be how to help students
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: when they come to college that college, that college may
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: turn into how to learn because we're in some ways,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: because our kids are being raised on screens, they know how,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: they know, they know where to find information. They don't
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: know how to how to how to create the information right,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: they don't know how to confine the information if the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: power goes out type of issue, and that that's in
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: some ways that might be a role that undergraduate universities
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: are going to be playing again. So that was an
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: interesting thesis he had. What do you make of that?
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is a very interesting thesis, and it's
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: something I think about all the time. You know, I worry,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: for example, when you see doctors using their phones to
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: look up everything. You know, I want my surgeon if
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going in for brain surgery, I want my surgeon
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: to know how to do the surgery even if the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: power goes out. You know, you want you want our
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: experts to have the skills and the training that they need.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it's an interesting hypothesis. I think that a
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: lot of learning, though, happens in early childhood, and there
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: are certain foundational building blocks. We know, if by a
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: certain age you're not reading at a certain level, it's
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: very unlikely that you'll get there in your twenties. Right.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: That is why in this country we long ago established
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: had start in zero to three, because there was so
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: much evidence that what happens during early childhood really affects
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: your lifelong success in learning and even other things like
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: your economic you know, status, your your job, you know, availability,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: all those kinds of things. So you know, we we're
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: pushing to make sure. You know, look, I'm an American.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: I want us to win the AI race, but we
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: need to make sure that these technologies are developed in
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: ways that are all so safe and responsible. And I
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: have every confidence that our technology leaders can do both
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: of those things right. There's no reason we need to
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: just say, okay, let's have no legislation and let's just
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: let them do whatever they want. You know, we've already
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: seen I don't know if you caught this in the news,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: but there was a teddy Bear with AI in it
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: that just had to be recalled because if a child
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: asked the teddy Bear would tell them where they could
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: find knives matches. If you ask the teddy Bear a
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: sex question and suddenly they lead you in, you know,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: it would lead you into a conversation about like fringe.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: You know, sex spetishes like these are not products that
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: are safe for kids, and we should not make them
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: available to kids until we know they're safe.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: I'm curious what you thought of of mister Altman admitting
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: that he was surprised at how many people chose to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: use these these in this case chat ChiPT as a
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: sort of therapist, and that he didn't see that coming.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, in your we've put you in charge
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: of building this.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I have the same feeling about him that
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I did about Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, I think that
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: that these guys didn't read enough poetry in college.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: I think I've got a real I have a real
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: cynical view of these guys. These guys were the people
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: that never knew how to be friends in real life,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: are constantly looking. And you know, I joke that. You
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: know that Zuckerberg had a hard time meeting girls in college,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: so he thought he could hack his way into finding
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: a computer algorithm to match him up with people that
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: might be more interested in him.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Well that's how Facebook started, right. It was like a
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: rate a girl if she's hot, hot or not.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: That's what he was looking for. He was trying to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: meet girls. I mean, not an unusual thing for a
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: nineteen year old. I'm not going to you know, a
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: lot of nineteen year olds boys and girls don't know
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: how to do this. So I empathize in theory, but
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: I do think the entire the leadership of Silicon Valley
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: are some people that didn't grow up the way a
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: lot of other people grew up.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll give you one more example. G Nome Shazir,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: who founded character Ai, was interviewed in a podcast a
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: couple of years ago and they asked him about character
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: AI and he said, well, give you my humorous VC pitch.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: He said, you know, we know child's out walking with
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: their parents. They're holding hands, they're asking questions, and the
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: parents giving the child a lot of information. But they're
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: not just giving them facts. They're also you know, they're
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: their friend. They're giving them emotional support. They said, that's
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: what we want character ai to do. We don't want
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: to replace Google. We want to replace your mom. And
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: he said this, Oh my god. And then and then
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: we've seen all of these lawsuits now because character AI
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: when people have turned to it for emotional support or
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: because they are depressed or they are struggling, rather than
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: direct them to get help, rather than stopping, the AI
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: program is providing detailed instructions and encouragement. In some cases
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: for someone to end their own life. So I think,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: to that company's credit, they have now announced that it
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: should not be used by anyone under eighteen. But again
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: the question remains, why didn't they consider this consequence when
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: they created the product? And so again that is why, Mama,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: we're so focused right now in ensuring that our lawmakers
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: take action to require these companies to be accountable for
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: the products that they make, that there's transparency so we
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: know what's happening at these companies, because unless you require
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: them to provide this data, you know researchers can't even
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: study it, and that there's responsibility and that when they
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: design them in such a way that it's inflicting harm
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: on our children at scale, that they are held responsible
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: for that. And we are seeing multiple lawsuits now from
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: school districts throughout the country who are saying, you know what,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: you have to reimburse us for the tens of millions
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: of dollars it's costing us for therapists, for emergency psychiatric beds,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: for all of these costs that have been borne by
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Americans and our communities that are really the cause that
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: been caused by these tech company products.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to the school issue, you know,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: one of the fears. You know, I think about the
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: following right with the advent of AI over the last
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: twenty years, the focus among the many parents. My kids
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: are now eighteen and twenty one, so I remember, and
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: there was always, you know, every conversation with every parent
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: of you know, in my cohort was always boy, you know, hey,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: they got to learn coding, and oh, but they better
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: learn coding, and that's what's you know, and stem and
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff. And then all of a sudden
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: we realize, oh, no, coding is not going to be
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: a life skill. This isn't this isn't going to be
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: something you need, and it isn't going to help you
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: get another job. In fact, that is going to be
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: replaced by a robot. So that's that's a that's a
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: no longer necessary. That's like teaching somebody how to dig
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: out an ice block. We don't we don't refrigerate with
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: ice blocks anymore. That is no longer an industry that
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: is necessary. The biggest fear I have now moving from
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: parent to grandparent. Right, I'm not there yet, but I
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: have nieces and nephews who are having kids. Now, and
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: that is they don't you and I thought think we
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: have an idea of the world our kids are going
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: to be living in. I think that's harder and harder
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: to visualize, and I think it's paralyzing parents and trying
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: to figure out what it is that they should be
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: asking the schools to be teaching their kids to prepare
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: them for this next generation of jobs or this next
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: generation of society, because I don't think any of us
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: have the first clue of what it's going to look like.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how that factors into what you're
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: working on, but it's to me part of the of
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: the fear factor that has allowed so much technology into
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: the school systems.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: So the way we describe our work at MAMA is
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: that where a grassroots movement of parents and allies fighting
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: back against media addiction and creating a world where real
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: life experiences and interactions remain at the heart of a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: healthy childhood. And the reason for that is because tech
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: is here, it's not going anywhere. We are going to
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: have a lot of technology available to us, and it's
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: going to help us solve a lot of problems. But
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: there are many things about being human that we don't
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: want to change, and it should always be part of
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: being human. I don't want a robot to hold my
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: toddler or my grandbaby. I want to hold that child.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: And we don't think that we should just blindly say, okay,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: tech is going to replace everything. We know that, and
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: there's abundant evidence about the role of parents and adults
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: in children's lives and about the role of embodied experiences
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: in children's learning. And we also know that there are many, many,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: many jobs that technology is not good for. I don't
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: know if you saw that video that was making its
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: way across social media last week, but there was a
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: new AI robot. It was presented at a conference, and
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: as it got across the stage, you know it was
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: it looked really cool until it fell down because they
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: haven't even figured out balance yet. So, you know, over
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: and over again, for more than a century, we've heard
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: tech companies promise that their product is going to revolutionize everything,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: and some products do and they you know, a smartphone
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: has changed a lot of things. Has it changed the
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: way we eat food, Has it changed the way we
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: nurture our babies, has it changed the way you know,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: our economy is run, not exactly. There are some changes
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: in our payments, right, but absolutely everything is not going
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: to change. So when it comes to thinking about the future,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: you know, what I want from my children is to
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: have the same thing that my grandparents wanted for their kids.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: It's the same thing I want for my future grandchildren.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: I want them to grow up healthy. I want them
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: to grow up confident and capable. I want them to
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: have a set of skills so that they are resilient
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: and can adapt because nobody knows exactly what the workplace
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: is going to need, right, but we're always gonna need trades,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: We're always going to need skilled workers, We're always going
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: to need caretakers, and all of these professions that hold
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: up what it means to have a society. The tech
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: workers and the folks that the machines are a small
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: part of that. And I think we also just don't
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: want to give it all over to the machines. You know,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: the Luddites happened because those folks like didn't want to
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: lose their jobs. And now we're at a point where
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: many many more types of work can be replaced, and
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: we have to decide is that what we want? Do
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: we want actors to not you know, have jobs anymore.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: Do we want everything to be robots? And I don't
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: think we do. I don't think anybody wants to take
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: their kindergartener to class and have them taught by a
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: robot teacher.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: This is where I'm weirdly optimistic. Like you know, the
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: human species is pretty adaptable and has survived quite a
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: few challenges over the last few million years. I have
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: a feeling we're not going to let ourselves be replaced
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: by robots. I just wonder if we know we need it,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: when we're ready to start fighting.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Back, Well, it's time. I mean, the time is here, right.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: And that's where I want to get to. So okay,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: So you're you are trying to essentially become a political force,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: not left or right, just a force. You know, we're
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: not exactly advocating an advocacy. What are you working on
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: in the next six months? I know in the federal
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: level we talked a little bit about it. It's the
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: stopping this AI moratorium, AI regulatory moratorium. What are some
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: near term activities in the States that you're working on
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: as well? Well? And are you going to you know,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: try to do candidate questionnaires or try to do things
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: like that, or are you not in that space just yet?
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: So we're not in that space just yet. We're a five,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: A one, C three, we're not a C four. You know.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Working on demanding safeguards is one small part of what
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: we do. We also work really hard on our communities
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: to educate parents on why they don't have to rush
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: to give their kids a phone. Our wonderful chapter leader
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh, you know, talked with the members of that
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: chapter and they really wanted their children to be able
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: to go to school without phones. But some parents were worried,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: what about an emergency? And they went and they talked
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: to local shop owners and they said, you know, in
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: an emergency, can my child come in and use the phone?
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: And the store owners were like, of course, and they
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: put little stickers in the window so the kids would
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: even know they were welcome there. Right, So Mama Mama
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: works in communities, and then we also work with schools
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: because this is a huge issue now, not just the phones,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: but what people are calling ed tech. So that is
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: the giving of tablets to kindergarteners, the giving of laptop
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: to first graders, and all over the country we're hearing
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: from parents that they're at war with their schools because
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: they don't want their children to come home and have
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: these devices. They don't want their children to have access
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: to YouTube where they're going to be watching videos over
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: and over, and the platform is designed to keep them
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: on there as long as possible. And then in terms
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: of legislation, we are very excited about all of the
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: lawmakers that introduce bills to try to require products to
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: be safer. In the last legislative session we saw close
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: to four hundred bills introduced. There were a lot, but
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: we've seen success in everything from bell to bell phone
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: bands to social media warning labels pass. And we're most
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: excited about legislation like something called the Age Appropriate Design
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Code or the Kids Code, And this is law that
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: requires companies that make digital products to be used by
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: children to show what's called a duty of care to
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: children in making them safe by design, so if the kids,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: if a kid's going to go on there, then it
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: should be designed in a safe way. And that means
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: doing things like putting privacy settings at the highest by default,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: not the lowest, so that every American parent doesn't have
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: to go in there and figure out how to how
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: to make sure a stranger can't contact their child. But
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: it's set that way from the beginning. So Nebraska and Vermont,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: for example, this year passed the Age Appropriate Design Code.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: By the way, that's that just shows you the ideological
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: breadth if you will, that's there, right. You know, Vermont
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: is Vermont the hom of Bernie Sanders. Well guess what
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Nebraska is. They root for a team they call Big Red.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: And it isn't just because Nebraska's colors are red. Yep.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: And you know, we're also seeing some interesting legislation now
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: being introduced about AI. So in October, Senators Mark Warner
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: from Virginia, Josh Holly from Missouri, Dick Blumenthal from Connecticut,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: Chris Murphy from Connecticut, and Katie Britt from Alabama introduced
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: this bipartisan bill that would ban miners from using AI
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: chatbot companions. And it would have an incredible impact on
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: the safety of our children. So you know, that's the
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. I mean, who who wouldn't support that?
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: I mean you have to ask who wouldn't support keeping
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: kids safe? Do you?
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: You know, do you plan on having sort of Mama
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: seal of approsals? You know, meaning like, if you want
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: to see what are what are? What are you know?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Could I, you know, maybe this a little early my
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: next holiday season, Will I go on Mama's website and
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: be able to see these are products that you should
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable, that have some tech in him, that are
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: that are safe.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: Chuck, I don't want to promise that to your listeners.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: It's definitely on our to do list. We're moving as
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: quickly as we can. As I mentioned, you know, we
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: had this ambitious goal of having six chapters, and the
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: demand is just completely overwhelming. Right after we launched, we
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: got requests from all fifty states and all over the globe,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: like every continent except Antarctica. So you know, we are
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: very grateful that we receive some funding this year from
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: the Rockefeller Foundation, and we are primarily funded by individual
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: donors and family foundations. There's a lot of folks who've
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: come together to make this work happen, and we're growing
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: as quickly as we can. But yes, I do think
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: eventually that is something we would like to provide.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you just talked about the world.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: I heard a stat and I wonder if you guys
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: are now a Clearinghouse for some of these studies that
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: there has not been a study around the world on
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: social media usage or early phone usage that it hasn't
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: mattered whether it's a rich country a poor country. It
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: hasn't mattered what ethnicity or if it's a homogenous society
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: or a multi ethnic society that this is. It is
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: so clear that this tech at a young age has
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: been harmful. Hard stop.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: You know, social media doesn't discriminate, and we have definitely
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: seen that. You know, with the National Emergency and Youth
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Mental Health it cuts across race, class, gender, geography, you
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: name it. There is additional concerns for vulnerable communities. We
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: have seen. Unfortunately, the increase in suicide rates among Hispanic
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: adolescents is even higher than in its white counterparts. The
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: rate of increase in Black youth is high. So I
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: think we're beginning to see a different kind of digital
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: divide where low income families, and in part it might
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: be because childcare is so expensive.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm just going to say, is that child is
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: basically unfortunately we have tech. Nanny's right. You know, I
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: was a latchkey kid. First thing I did when I
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: had to get home was I had to call my
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: mom at work to let her know I got in
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: the house right, and you.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: Probably watched TV and that was fine, though, you know
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Turn on TV. But what would happen now? Right? You
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: whip on? You probably, you know, put the device on, right.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, I watch more Love Boat than any ten
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: year old should have. But there was a limit to
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: what kinds of things.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: My parents did. Weren't crazy about me watching love Boat
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: or Three's Company, I remember exactly.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: We didn't even know.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: I'll see an old rerunning, Oh my god, like that
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: is risque. I can't believe they let that on television. Right.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: Well, now, the average age of first exposure to pornography
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: is twelve, okay, Chuck, twelve like you know, and look
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: like I think as a parent, you know, I don't
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: have crazy conservative ideas. I know that at some point
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: my sons will probably be exposed to pornography in high school.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: But I don't think it should be mainline to them
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: by a couple of companies that are making gobs of profit.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: If they can get people to stay on their platform.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: Longer, there's certain things that should be hard to come by,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: and they have to frankly in some ways you should
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit of shame, because that's actually a
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: good thing to have through life.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, look, I don't think anybody would
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: support allowing pornography at the checkout register at the supermarket,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: but we didn't. We don't have a law that forces
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: people to, you know, put it high up behind the
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: counter or wrap it in paper bags.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: So custom is part of this and part of what's
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: challenging in the digital eras that were you know, these companies, we're.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: Still making the customs. We don't really have a making
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: the customs right, and I think that that's been that's
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: what makes this feel so challenging. And because I think
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: we all agree we've got to figure out how to
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: slow down the adapt the adaptation of tech in kids' lives.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: But my god, is the toothpaste already out of too?
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: Well. We have Mama's House Rules. If you go to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: we Are Mama dot org and you click on learn,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: you can scroll down and Mama's House Rules give you
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: some ideas of how as a family you can manage it,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: limit it, put it in a container. Again, we're not
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: saying there's going to be no tech in your life.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: But we're just saying, how do you have a life
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: that's based on real life experiences and interaction, because once
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: you or your child are spending too much time online,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: it just becomes so unhealthy. And you know we're all
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: media addicted, right, it's not just our children, and what
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: we model has a huge huge impact on them.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Well, if I just went on your site, we are
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: mama dot org. So that's the fairly quick and easy place.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: You mentioned one other thing about tobacco, about how those
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: that were advocating against it had a went to Hollywood
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, we need to redo this. Are you
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing with Hollywood with tech?
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: You know, you say, hey, you know, make it so
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: that you know, everything that happens online is bad, the
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: cool stuff is in person or something like that. How
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: are you trying to influence culture in that front?
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: So, you know, we've had some conversations with some people
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: in the space, I think other you know, Joe Gordon
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: Levitt has been a tremendous voice for healthy human relationships.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: I know he's a dad and that he again he's
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: not anti tech. He just thinks like tech should be
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: safe and that we shouldn't. He has a wonderful ted
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: talk that you could check out about his own experience
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: with social media and what he learned is unhealthy about it.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: I think that more and more people in Hollywood are
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: waking up to this, especially after the actors the sag
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: after strike last year. You know, so many studios had
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: sort of suggested that they just pay actors and don't
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: hire them again, and then they can just make an
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: AI likeness. And I don't think anybody likes the idea
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: of never working again, because you know, pixels can just
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: replace them. And then I think Pixar in the last
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: Toy Story movie, I think they actually had a digital
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: device kind of be one of the negative characters. So
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: maybe somebody over there is getting the message.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Interesting, Julie, I am, you know, cheering you on. I'm
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: glad to give you a platform. I want to stay
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: in touch, want to continue to help spread the word.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think generally everybody gets it.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of paralysis out there, and
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: I think what you've shown is that hey, you're not alone.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: You're not alone. And it's just been so moving and
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: inspiring to see all these parents come forward We're looking
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: for more chapter leaders and a couple of specific states.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: So if you have any listeners in Wisconsin or ten
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: or Kentucky.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: Here you go and challenge accepted. Here we go. Come on,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Kentucky and Tennessee and Wisconsin. I got listeners in all
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: those states. We know this. Let's go, let's get this done.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: And I'd like to see you know who the best
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: advocates for this could be today's college students. You know,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: I'd love to see you get college chapters. That was look,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: that was a big part of Matt They got some
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: college chapters.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: And that that helped absolutely. We work with some youth
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: led groups now that are just truly wonderful, and you know,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: I am both grateful for their advocacy and it breaks
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: my heart that we have put kids in this situation
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: where children have to go to Congress and testify about
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: what happened to them and how they were groomed online
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: or received eating disorder encouragement. You know, we're the parents.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: We have to make it safe for our kids.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: Julie, so much, so grateful to talk with you.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you you too, pleasure. Thanks, well, there you go.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: It's so funny the way I think many a parent thinks, right,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: when my kids were young, I'd have older friends of
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: mine whose kids were already in college going, but I'm
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: glad I don't have to raise kids in this environment.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: And it's like, well, you know, you know we all
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: were you know, every you know, every parent you know,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: after their kids get through and they see what comes next,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: you think, oh, I'm glad I didn't have to deal
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: with that right on that front. But there's no doubt
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: this this UH, the relationship between when to introduce tech
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: and we just haven't. You know, there's there's plenty of
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: smart and there's probably more studies that need to be done,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: but so far every study indicates of just you know,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: how how damaging too much screen time has been to
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: UH to kids. And clearly there's been some that it
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: leads to some learning issues and certainly slows things down.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: So I hope you take a look at what she's
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: up to UH. And and to my some of my
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: libertarian friends out there, let I think there's a I
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: think there is a a a fair compromise here, and
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's you know, I don't think anybody
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: is going it's it's either all or nothing. I think
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: we have to come through data and decide what is
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: what is what is the right time? Right we we
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: wait until kids are fifteen or sixteen before we'll let
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: them get behind a wheel, even as a restricted driver.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: You know, we've we didn't you know, we didn't have
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: those laws immediately in place when cars got introduced, but
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: it was something over time. And I think in this case,
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: you know, we realize, oh cigarettes, there ought to be
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: a minimum major requirement. Being able to buy alcohol. That
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: will be a minimum major requirement. Being able to drive
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: a car, that'll be a minimum major requirement. Social media.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: It definitely thinks it definitely feels like it's one of
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: those that you know, falls in line with certainly what
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: we've done in the past when we've identified something that
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: we think can be more harmful to kids before getting
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: exposed to something before their brains are fully formed. All right,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: let's get into Let's get into a few of the
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: questions here as Chuck, this one comes from Austin. From Austin,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: he is not a first timer. I think we'll call
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: him a long timer. Hey, sen say your interview with
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: Sarah Esker blew my mind. All right, I had no
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: idea that the original article, the first was about congressional
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: representation and apportionment makes so much sense that our founders
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: prioritize representation before anything else. Got me thinking, could this
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: be the basis for a limited series or film? Most
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: of Americans don't know this history, and dramatizing it could
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: have make structural reform like a return to our roots.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: Man Austin, what a terrific idea. You know, you know,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: it's interesting, I assume and I hope you're watching the
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: Ken Burns American Revolution series. It's fantastic and it's certainly
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: also very you know, there's nothing harder than trying to
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: put together a documentary like he does, essentially without any
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: archival material, archive video, things like that, pictures, et cetera.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: It's not easy, but a dramatic a limited series on
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: the essentially the fight over the Constitution and you know,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: the failure of the Articles of Confederation and sort of yes,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: and we could create some drama. You get some characters.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: Ben Franklin's a great character. Thomas Jefferson's a great character.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: John Adams is right. We know a little bit something
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: about all of them. Some of them have been portrayed
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: I mean the John Adams series and that that HBO
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: put on some fifteen or so years ago with Paul
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: Giamatti is just one that if you all consider yourself
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: a history junkie, then you've already seen it. But I
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: love this idea, Austin, and I think you're right because
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: I think there's there was plenty of drama. There was
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: plenty of debate, you know, and you can have different episodes.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: You know where the cliffhanger is, you know, you know
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: there was a cliffhanger and what the official language was
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: going to be, Right, there's a cliff you know, all
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: these little cliffhangers about what were we going to be
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: as a country, you know, all those things. I think
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: there would be interest in this. And again we've seen this,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: you know, his historical dramas have done well. And look,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: I have a I believe that part of you know,
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: I think we need to offer more ways for people
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: to learn how our system works. Not everybody wants to
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: read a book about it. Not everybody wants to read
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: a textbook about it. Not everybody wants to listen to
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: ten hour podcast about it. So whatever way you get
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: that into the ecosystem and your idea is a good
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: one of sort of dramatizing, you know, the fights over
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: the founding and the fights that took place, so that
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: people can see the compromises. You know that the final
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: the decisions that were made were all compromises, right, it was.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: It was never designed to be perfect. So anyway, it's
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: a it's a terrific idea. Hey Netflix, are you listening, Austin?
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: And I would like to pitch this as a as
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: a TV series. Austin, I promise if for some reason
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: we get this opportunity, I'll hook you up. Don't worry.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from Michael Laurry says, Hey, Chuck, what
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: were your best and worst movies of the year. I
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: also love your thoughts on ken Burn's American Revolution series. Aha,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: I already gave you that one. What's your favorite of
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: his work? And which upcoming projects are you most excited about?
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: African American History, LBJA, Baseball, Stand Up the Mormons. Lastly,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: if Netflix is buying Warner Brothers, do you think David
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: Ellison hurt his chances by criticizing the process and highlighting
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: ties as a selling point. So I'm like a small
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: confession about movies these days, I watch fewer movies than ever,
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: and I think part of it is I am trapped
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: in the joy of episodic television that we have right
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: we are living, we are still living in the golden
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: age of this, you know, whether it's man I am,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: I'm digging plorabis and I'm still curious where we're headed here,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: although I have a my latest theory on Pluribus is
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: that it's a are you sure we want one collective
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: intelligence about who we are? Right? I don't know. I
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: felt like maybe maybe it's commentary on artificial intelligence. By
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: the way, I'm an episode behind, so no spoilers on
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: this front. And my other confession is when I travel,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: that's when I kind of junk out on movies. So
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: I just watched it. I've been traveling this week. So
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: I finally watched the Naked Gun reboots. Eh, you know,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: I there was some fun grace notes. I appreciated the effort,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: but there's a part of me that feels it's almost
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: too far away, too long ago, like we lost an
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: entire you know, that was arguably three pop culture generations
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: ago that the last nake Gun movie came out. So
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, it. It's a you know, it's
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: interesting being in the later stages now of middle aged right,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: which is right, I've got grown kids. But you know,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: it's funny about the movie industry. There's two there's two
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: demographic groups that actually go to movie theaters. Apparently one
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: is teenagers, so that's that explains all the Marvel movies
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: and all that other stuff. And the other is empty nesters,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: which is why you get right now we you know,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: you know, over the last fifteen years, it was a
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: lot of baby boomer nostalgia. Now we're getting we're starting
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: to get gen x nostalgia on this front. So as
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: for my favorite ken burns, look, I've seen a lot
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: of them. I enjoyed, you know, my I'm going to
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: do a deep cut here. I enjoyed the Prohibition one.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: Is that was something I knew the least. It was
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: one of those gaps for me, so it filled in
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of gaps. So I really enjoyed that one.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: And Baseball, of course, was I think transformational. You know,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: it was in the Civil War, and obviously the Civil
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: War was his essentially the masterpiece that gave him the
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: currency to do all of this. Right, he is America's historian.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: And what I had really admire about what ken Burns
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: has pulled off in the American Revolution. I mean, think
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: about all, you know, if he had asked me, well,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: what do you think I'm going to do the American Revolution,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, boy, right after these debates that
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: went through sixteen nineteen versus seventeen seventy six, these competing
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: commissions and all of this, and like, boy, good luck
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: trying to make something that everybody can feel comfortable with.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: And lo and behold, he seemed to make something that
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: you know he has not gotten is somehow avoided stepping
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: on too many political land mindes. You know he's been
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's been very straightforward, and I have found it,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I've certainly learned some things that I you know,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: you think you know, and there are more things that
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: you learn there. So it's uh. I really admire his
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: ability to have success with this in this polarized culture
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: that we lived in. We had to give him some
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: special award like, I don't know how you did it,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: but congratulations, you did something that we don't seem to
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: have any politicians capable of doing. So I owe you
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: a few more movies. I'll does do you care that
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: I watched the Mission Impossible Final Reckoning movies? I will
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: confess that, you know, I I it's a it's a
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: I always I designate. Like I say, most of my
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: movie watching now is when I'm want to be sort
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: of if I'm on a long flight and I'm trying
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: to pass the time. It's in fact, Mission and the
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: Mission Impossible series in the Jurassic Park series, right, those
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: are some I consider those guilty pleasures, meaning you know,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: I know you know what you're going to get. They
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: are what they are. I find them to be the
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: perfect airplane movies. So I did venture into both of those.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: But I owe you a better, Michael, I owe you
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: a better a better list of movies I like this year,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: So cot me some slack on that, all right. Next
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: question comes from Yavari from Finland. He says, hey, check
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: listener from Finland here loving the longer episodes, keep them coming.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: The sentate primaries in Texas are turning out to be
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: quite interesting. Oh yes they are. How bloody do you
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: think they could get? For example, between Alread and Tolerico. Well,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: in fairness, I think I did not answer this question
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: in a timely fashion, because as we now know, it's
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: no longer all Read in toat Rico. It is tall
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Rico and Crockett. If you are a listener to every episode,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: you may have already heard my take on that. I'll
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: give you that in a second, but let me finish
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: your question. You noted between all Read and tall Rico,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: you saw neither one seems to be the type to
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: knife each other that much, but she never know. Then
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: on the Republican side, now that Hunt has jumped in
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: the Republican side, is there a lane for him in
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: your opinion? Also, could you give a brief outlook on
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: how Montana looks for the Dems in twenty twenty six.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: I have a couple of friends there and they seem
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: optimistic about Russell Cleveland seating Ryan Zinky. That's in a
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: house race. I believe that zinc is running their kind
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: regards Lea Fari let me start with the Texas thing.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I answered it before. Obviously, look, Jasmine
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Crockett essentially drove colinra al Read out of the race,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: and it was pretty clear three way primary was going
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: to create a runoff that there was enough people that
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: got to all read convinced him to run for something
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: that's sure remnant of his old house seat there in
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: North Texas, because you know, if Democrats Republicans are already with
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: that three way raise, you know that's destined for a runoff,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: which means even more money of them throwing mud at
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: each other, and it's an internal fight. You know, it
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: did seem to be a self inflicted wound for Democrats
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: to also have a large enough primary with prominent candidates
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: that would guarantee a runoff on their end. You know why,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: you know, why not take advantage of the situation of Republicans.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: And so now you do have a situation where I
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: all want to agree to get out. It's Jasmine Crockett and
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: James Tollerico And as I implied history, I think this
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: is going to be a race that is less about
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: ideology and more about style. Right. You're essentially he says,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: you know, how much do you want a fighter and
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: how much do you want to uniter? Right, You're going
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: to have the pastor versus the fighter, right, and what
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: is the mind set of the electorate? And if, like
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: I said, I went pretty long on this and yesterday's
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: episode so I'll keep this one shorter, But essentially, I
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: think this is going to be a noisy primary on
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: the Democratic side, But I don't know if it's going
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: to be a nasty primary, right I think both could
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: pay a penalty, you know, and how they go about it, right,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: Tyla Rico has a as a brand that if he
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: gets too negative or sort of practices sort of conventional
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: old school negative politics, that could boomerang on him because
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: he's trying to be a different type of a different
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: type of candidate, a different type of Democrat. And I
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: think Crockett are already sort of you know, she's she's
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: a bit polarizing, certainly in a general electorate, and she
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: needs a United Democratic Party behind her if she wins
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: this primary. So I definitely agree with your take that
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: if it had been all read Tolrico and Crockett had
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: decided not to run, that that would have been a
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: that would have been a patty cake primary a little bit,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: you know, I think it would have been sock. The
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: curiosity I have about the Democratic side of this is
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: will outside groups sort of be the ones to throw
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: all the insults? Right? Well, we see a bunch of
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: outside Democratic money essentially try to damage Crockett, because I mean,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: that's what I think is most likely you do have
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: You're not going to get the party leadership to admit
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: that they prefer publicly Tolerico over Crockett, but their body
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: language is going to come across that way. There's just
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: a perception that she can't win the general. I do
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: find this story. I'm not sure it's interesting that the
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: NRSC decided to take a victory lap and say, hey,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: look what we did and try to take credit for
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: talking Crockett into running. And of course noticed this story
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: about you know how the NRSC is sort of taking
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: credit for getting for essentially coaxing Crockett into the race.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: Meaning they did some early polling, they were curious to
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: see if Crockett had any traction. They tested her and
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: they realized that she was actually the best known, that
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: she would do the best in a Democratic primary, just
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: sort of implying that she had the highest name recognition
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: of anybody that could possibly run. And you know, John
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: Cornan is not hidden his belief that he thinks that
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: that Crockett would be easier to defeat than anybody else.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: He faces problem for John Cornan is. I do not
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: see a scenario where he's the nominee, and I'm mildly
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: surprised he chose to run. You know, I had a
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: thesis and I think I shared it, and so I
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: will look, I was wrong about the following. I thought
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: he certainly was behaving like somebody who was buying time
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: from everybody, saying that he let me give me to
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: the filing deadline to prove that I can win this thing. Well,
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: then Wesley Hunt got in. It got complicated. But you know,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: while Cornan certainly has done a good job raising Paxton's
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: negative was his early TV negative TV ads, it hasn't
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: accrued to Cornan's benefit. And you know, there's there's certainly
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: he just right, he feels like he's just a fish
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: out of water. And where this Republican Party is these days,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: and it's as if the electorate knows that Cornan is
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: not one of them. Right, he is getting a strong
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: thirty thirty two percent, which is about what's left of
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: the Bush wing of the Republican Party nationally, and it's
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: about what's left inside the state of Texas. Now, if
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: Cornyn were the general election of the Republican nominee there's
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: no doubt. I think he's a favorite no matter who
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: he would face, whether it was Tolerico or Crockett. There So,
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: obviously the Republican primary is going to be scorched earth,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: just scorched earth. But you know, nothing's really moved. What
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: I'm curious about what is going to move Cornan's numbers up.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: I know what everybody believes will move Paxton's numbers down.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: What moves Cornan's numbers up? And in some ways he
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: may have made a mistake. And the NRSC is bragging
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: about getting Jasmine Crockett in. But if Republican voters are
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: convinced that anybody can beat Crockett, then they don't have
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: to hold their nose and support Cornyan because he's quote
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: unquote the only one that can prevent a Democrat from
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: winning the Senate. See So I just find it interesting
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: that the NRSC is meeting their chest when they actually
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: that if Crockett is the center of attention in the
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary, that actually may send the message to Republican
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: primary voters that hey, Democrats are going to nominate somebody
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: who can win a general election, so you don't have
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: to worry about supporting the mushy moderate John Cornett. And
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: there's another reason why Cornyn may regret that there is
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: a competitive primary at all. In the Democratic primary, it's
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: a you know, Democratic you know, if there wasn't a
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: competitive Democratic primary vote, you would have seen some that
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: might vote in a Democratic primary choose to vote in
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: the Republican primary. There's a little bit of choice in Texas,
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: and he may cost himself some potential sort of moderate
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Democratic voters who might have if there really wasn't a
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: competitive Democratic primary, they may have done that. So, look,
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: you are right to point out those Texas primaries. It's
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: certainly why why we're already have identified the Texas primary
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: night as the next night we go live with election
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: results in twenty twenty six. That is going to be
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: as consequential of a primary night as there is in
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: deciding whether or not Democrats do have a serious chance
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: at picking up the Senate. All right, I'm thinking one
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: more question before we get into my little college football
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: preview for the weekend. It comes from Brian from Sterling,
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: Virginia says, love the Toddcast, especially the World War One discussions.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: Here's a favorite historical what if of mine? What if
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: Arch Duke Ferdinand's driver hadn't taken a wrong turn, Sorryjevo,
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: placing the air to the Austrio Hungarian throne right in
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: front of Gabrielle prince Hip, the guy who shot him.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: Without that fateful moment, we might have avoided World War One,
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: no rise of communism, no World War Two, no Cold War,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: no Holocaust, and a radically different Middle East. That single
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: wrong term may have shaped the entire modern world. That's
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: quite the what if I am. I am not a
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: believer in that. I you know, I think we were
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: on a hair trigger and I think that there were certainly,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: you know, we were in a Look think about the
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: period we were in. We were hypernationalists around the globe.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: We were, And this is why I think we're in
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: a similar period now, which is, you know, every time
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: we've had a massive transition in our economy, you know,
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: over the last one hundred and fifty years, right that
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: was the advent, you know, when we were moving from
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: an agrarian economy to an industrial economy. Globally, look at
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: all that happened in the first fifteen years twenty years
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. You had the Russian Revolution, we
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: had all. I mean, there was disruption and voter revolt
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: and people revolt and worker revolts all over the globe.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: So it was a very unstable time. So I as
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: much as I mean I love the is, I love
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: a good alternative history, a little good a little butterfly effect.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: I wish. I hope you're right. I'm don't think, but
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: I look at it. I think there there we were
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: in a the whole globe wasn't in a in an
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: unsteady position. In fact, you could argue we're in a
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: similar position now right where you know we were were.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: We were pursuing a very uh closed border. We were
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: uh anti immigrant at that time, we were had high
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: tariff rates, we were a bit nationalistic. Remember, we didn't
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: want to get involved at all. What was going on
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: in Europe. You know, Hey, that ain't happening here. That's
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: why we're We've got two oceans between us and the
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: other comments. So that's that would be my only pushback
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: to your theory is that I think that we were
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: that that that we were just the transition of the
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: of the global economy from agrarian to industrial and the
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: race to industrialization, and you had this you just had
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: there was all sorts of tumult that was happening inside
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire. That was tumult, that was you know
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: it sort of it was the big we were in
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: the we were in the late stages of the British Empire,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: right that it was you know, uh, they were it
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: was getting chipped away at and certainly we had you know,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: look at how the fact that that did trigger a
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: global you know, the Great War if it will, I
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: think tells you what a tinderbox the globe wash was
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: at that time. And that's something that I think about
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: in this current period. You know, we're going to get
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: through this, and we're going to get through this, but
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: this transformation of our economy has you know, rattled the globe.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: Right look at Brexit, then look at what we're doing,
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: and look at sort of the shift and uh into
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: nationalism here and what that is. Look what that is triggered.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: You know, when when the biggest economy in the world
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: starts behaving in an isolationist, nationalistic sort of you know
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: America first, Well, suddenly other countries are going to be
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: Japan first, and Germany first, and Italy first, and and
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: so on and so forth. And so I certainly hope
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: we can do we can escape this without without the
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: mass casualties that we had with World War One. But
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: it's not as if we're in a stable time period
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: in our globe's history at the moment right where you
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: have a pretty active war taking place between one of
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: the largest countries in the world, Russia versus Ukraine. Look
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: at sort of the unsteadiness, what we may be instigating
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: a military conflict in Venezuela. We're a bit on uh.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: There's certainly a lot of concern about potentially hot conflict
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: with China over Taiwan. You've seen the rhetorical back and
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: forth between the new Prime Minister of Japan in China.
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's an interesting what if. But I
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: think when you look at the when you look at
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: sort of what was happening around the world at that time,
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: why were we in this period where something like that
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: could trigger all of this, I think you're underestimating what
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: was a very I think a very unstable period that
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: was taking place around the globe. This is the time
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: where I've normally got this huge college football preview. We
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: only have one game this weekend, but I always have
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: good memories of this, because I've been to a couple
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: of Army Navy games, and I'm sure if you've never
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: been to an Army Navy game, you've missed out on something.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: And the first one I got to experience was was
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: the first time I ever got to participate in a pool,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: presidential pool, if you will. The fact that I got
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: to do it probably violated some probably was a secret
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: service violation, but it is now thirty years thirty one
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: years ago, so I think I can now it can
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: be told. My late longtime friend von Vers, who some
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: of you have heard me talk about before and I
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: basically grew up in politics together working at the Hotline.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: We lost him a couple of years ago. I'm still
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: still feels like yesterday. I miss him every day. I
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: miss talking politics with him, and we worked together at
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: the Hotline. We work together at NBC. But when he'd
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: gone back and forth from the Hotline a couple of times,
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: and he actually got a network job before I ever did,
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: he went to CBS and he suddenly he got roped
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: into he was working in their political bureau and they
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: were like a whole bunch of people wanted the weekend
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: off and from their White House Unity talked Vaughan into
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: being the guy who ran the transmission pool uh for
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: the White House Press Corps for the Army Navy game
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: because the president was going at this president at the time,
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: of course, was Bill Clinton. This year they were playing.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: That year, they were playing the Army Navy game at
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: the old Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia. The reason I remember
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: this is because they also said, Hey, if you want
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: to bring a friend, we'll give you an extra an
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: extra pass. So he says, hey, you want to come
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: with me? And I was like yeah, So you know,
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: we drive from DC to Philadelphia. And the only if
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: I had brought a Phillips screwdriver with me, I pro
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: there is a there's not a zero percent chance I
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: would have walked away with a Mike with a framed
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: Mike Schmidt jersey from the Phillies locker room. The White
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: House transmission pool was in the actual Phillies clubhouse in
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: Veterans Stadium, and I just was mesmerized by it, and
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: we you know it is now. Of course, I've been
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: through what a transmission pool is. I've been through all
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: of those things and and it's kind of a it
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: can It can be a lot of a lot of
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: work and a lot of sitting around, and it can
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: be a lonely thing, which is why many networks are like,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you should have some company with this. But
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: it was the first time I got to experience Army
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: Navy game, and I got to experience it sort of
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes, and we watched the entire game on
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: the on the sideline, and like almost every Army Navy game,
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: it came down to the last drive of the game,
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: and uh, it was it was just fantastic, the pageantry,
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: the passion. Uh watching halftime when the Commander in Chief
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: moves from one side, you know, sitting on the Army side,
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: moving over to the Navy side, or if Navy was
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: the home team, the Navy side moving over to the
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: Army side, and there's this sort of ordinate sort of
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: uh you know, you get the Navy, you get all
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: the troops lining up and sort of lining and sort
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: of saluting the Commander in chief as they go. When
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: I've been to a couple of them, and some president
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't always go. Every year, when the president doesn't go,
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: it's usually the Secretary of Defense that goes. Sometimes the
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: president and the Secretary of Defense goes. I imagine, we
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: know Donald Trump loves himself a football game, and if
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: he can officially go to a football game, he's going
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: to go. So I'm sure we're going to uh have
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: a Trump moment or two at this Army Navy game
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: because he's not gonna he's not going to miss a
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: moment to miss a moment. But uh, it's it's, uh,
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: it's just one of those. It really is. Uh, it's
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: it's probably the only it's probably the purest college football
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: that we have left. Right if you if you're sort
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: of burned out on nil and you're burned out on
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: the conference realignment. Although both Army and Navy have participated
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: in conference realignments, in fact they are now both members
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: of conferences, there was a period where Army was an
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: independent and they were sort of between conferences and things,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: and one of these days it's very possible. I'm really excited.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: Over the last couple of years we've actually seen Army
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: and Navy higher coaches that want to innovate and saying, Okay,
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: we have a we're going to have size limits of
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: what we're going to have, but you know, which is
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: why they run the triple option, but hey, why not
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: throw out of the triple options some And we've seen
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: much more dynamic offenses out of both both service academies,
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: which has just been which has allowed them to pull
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: a few upsets every now and then be a bit
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: more sort of punch above their weight as programs. And
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the only curiosity I have is I have
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: no idea how how these football programs are going to
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: how the how the NIL programs are going to work
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: for Army and Navy, and whether there we're going to
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: start to see collectives for Army and Navy. I imagine
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: we won't. It feels like that that's a that that's
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: that's a gray area that autumn that that folks ought
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: to stay out of. But you know, I don't want
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: to rule anything out that we'll start to see something
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: on that front, but I I do. I'm a sucker
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: for it. And if you ever get the chance to
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: go in person, I would just say take the opportunity.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: Even if you don't consider yourself sort of a you know,
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: a big sort of flag waving type person. I know
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: that's not everybody's Cupetit doesn't make any less patriotic I'm not.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to imply that
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: at all, but I it is. And here's the other day.
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: It's always a good game, and it's just an incredible atmosphere.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: And if you want to know, I've some of my
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: closest friends and a former roommate. It's a Naval Academy grad.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: So I always root for Navy. But I just say
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: go Navy. I don't say beat Army, because you know
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: I don't have I I'm not anti Army on this one,
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: but I do always come down on the Navy side.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: So go Navy. I hope you do well. But what
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: I most want is just a great game, because when
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: the Army Navy game is competitive, it's a lot of
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: fun to watch, especially when it's the only college football
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: game we have this weekend. Although there is the FCS playoffs,
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not in denial on that. One of the things
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: I promise is that I might dabble a little bit
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: in NFL. I know I do a little bit of
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: that with Tony Kohneiser, but I'll be honest with you
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: until Miami. As long as Miami is alive in the
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: college football playoff, I'm going to be pretty pretty focused
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: on that. But as a Packer fan, I'm starting to
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: feel as if i'm, you know, the beginning of this season,
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: after the first couple of weeks, first two games, Miami
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: beats Notre Dame in South Florida by pretty significant margins,
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: and they looked like a really good football team, and
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: was you know, going to be championship caliber? First two
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: games in the NFL season, Packers beat the Lions and
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: the Commanders back to back. At the time when Commanders
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: we thought, hey, you know, they just were in the
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: NFC title game the year before. They looked like a juggernaut.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: Then they had kind of a mid season dip. Miami
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: had kind of a mid season dip. And now both
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: my teams are starting to starting to look like they
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: at least they can compete for the highest title of
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: the season. So to say I'm a bit giddy about
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: my two football teams as an understatement, and I just
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: thank them in this in what can be when the
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: day job and the topics of what I have to
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: cover for the day job can be anxiety and doucing
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: and sometimes demoralizing and sometimes depressing. It's always nice when
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: you're when your sports teams can can provide a little
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: bit of a little bit of happiness. But of course,
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: as we all dedicated sports fans know, when your team,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: when you suddenly have expectations for your team, you don't
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: enjoy any part of the game until you've survived winning
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: that game. I can tell you I barely enjoyed any
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: part of that Packers Bears game, but I was but
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: after we won, then I was really enjoying the fact
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: that we that that the Packers won. So to say that,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm feeling pretty uh pretty excited about about
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: what could be coming over the next few weeks. I
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: don't want to jinx it, and for all I know,
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: it could come crashing down for both teams in a heartbeat.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: But you know, when you have a pretty good defensive line,
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: it's amazing how far your teams can go. And both
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: the Packers and the and the Hurricanes have themselves pretty
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: elite defensive lines. And if you to me, that's the
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: key to winning championships a disruptive defense. And both my
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: Hurricanes and my Packers have disruptive defenses. All Right, With that,
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: with my sports biases out of the way, I will
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: call it a week. I will see you next week.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: Enjoy the weekend, be safe out there, and until we
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: upload again, h