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Terminator 2: Judgement Day · May The Review Be With You

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Editor's note, the beginning of our podcast got cut off and we are missing
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at least the first four or five minutes of us introducing the film. So
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that's mostly because I'm dumb and I didn't catch it due to a technical air.
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But don't worry. Here comes me for different intro and a segue.
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Welcome to May the Review be with you and Nick and Joe. I'm Joe.
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Nick is also here, but this is from the future, so we'll
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segue into him pretty quick. Here's just the rundown of what this episode is.
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We're continuing our time travel draft. We are on terminator two for our
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classic time travel category. It's Nick's pick. And right now at this point
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in the podcast, I would have been stalling for my judgment day the fifteen
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second summary, but I'll let Nick explain. Speaking of judgment day, Joe,
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there's something that you have to do, and it's a fifteen second summary.
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My friend. Yeah, all times running this one. This is a
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tough one because it's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous, all right, So for
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those of you who don't know before, every time Joe and I review a
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movie, one of us has to give a fifteen second summary, we take
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turns. At the end, we grade each other, and Joe has the
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lovely capability today of being the person who has to give the summary. So,
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without further ado, I'm going to count you in and you have fifteen
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seconds to review Terminator two Judgment, Day three two one go Usure. John
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Connor sends the T eight hundreds back in time to stop the T one thousand
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from killing his past self. T one thousand is trying to ensure that sky
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Net happens and that the apocalypse happens. This sky Net takes over. Sarah
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Connor meets up with the Trio to try and stop the inevitable from happening,
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and they kill her. I think I got it. You did it.
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You did pretty well, But whatever you were reading, you didn't finish it.
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So I need to look out into like the VOI order to like channel
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the summary. Okay, that's fair. I'll give you that. I'll give
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you that. Yeah, I think you covered pretty much. You covered a
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lot of the main points. Kind of uh yeah, yeah, you really
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didn't. You didn't really close the loop on the end there, but uh,
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you know what, that's that's actually I'm glad you said that. Nick
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because that's actually one of my hot takes about this movie. But we'll get
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to that later. Okay, Well, I'm gonna go ahead and give you
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a B plus here for that for that fifteen second summary. I think it's
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pretty good score. Man, this is a long movie, and I was
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trying to think of, like what's the shortest possible way you could just all
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right, I'm just gonna mention all three main characters. Ten hundred good,
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two, one thousand bad. That's it. That's the summary. Ah Man.
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Yeah, speaking of length, definitely, I was kind of shocked,
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you know, with with how old the movie is and with how long it
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was, Right, it had to have been one of the longer like feature
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films back then, right in nineteen ninety one, it is. And it's
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I'm glad we're talking about that because there's actually a famous like discussion from James
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Cameron talking about like the length of this movie and specifically like he brings it
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up as a point of like the importance of editing and the movie was like
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super long, and he's like, man, this is too long for a
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movie theater, and they were experimenting with ways to try and shorten it,
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and the way that they succeeded. I'll get into that much later here,
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but what are the famous experiments that they tried. Was they removed one frame
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per I think it was per every twenty six or something, and they were
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thinking, yeah, if we do that, that will ultimately remove like a
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few minutes of the film. But all it ended up doing was creating like
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this jumbled mess of like they looked like they were just jumping throughout the film.
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Like it looked like you were just opening and closing your eyes really fast.
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So it's yeah, it's one of those it's his famous like discussion of
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like you know, that was the moment I realized that, like every frame
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matters and editing is so important. Like so, yeah, the length of
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this movie has been a large discussion in film history. Very interesting point that
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was, that's awesome. That's a great point. Anything anything stick out,
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anything glaring you want to like talk about before you really get into it.
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I mean, we want to focus on time travel, yes, okay,
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I do. All right, I'm going right into it. Okay, So
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it's the length, all right, So it's the solution for the length that
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I have a problem with. Okay, Like maybe the nineties was just different.
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Right, maybe you can't have, you know, a three hour endgame
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movie that people are willing to stick around for. I don't believe that,
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because before that they had gone with The Wind, which had an intermission in
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its movie. But whatever, so their solution. I haven't actually seen like
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an official discussion on this. I am just assuming that this was their solution.
5:26
So the beginning of the movie happens, right, And honestly, the
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beginning of the movie is done masterfully. I love that the T eight hundred
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comes in, the T one thousand comes in, and if you have any
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knowledge on Terminator one, rold Scharzenerger is the bad guy of that movie.
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So you see him, right, and he's beating people up, and this
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other cyborg shows up, or other machine rather shows up, and he dresses
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as a police officer. Right, this is a great setup for you don't
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know who's good or bad? Right, Yeah, And there's no there's no
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nothing. You're just observing it as a viewer. Right, This is a
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great directorial decision. I love it about I don't know, thirty forty minutes
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into the movie, we've already met Sarah Connor in this movie, and then
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like forty five minutes in the movie, all of a sudden, we get
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Sarah Connor's like first narration out of nowhere. She just starts narrating, and
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you're like, wait, we didn't start with that. Why why are we
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just narrating now? And then it occurred to me, we're narrating to save
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time. She's quickly walking us through important points, at important emotional points,
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and then later like important discussions, and then at the very end she's wrapping
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up like the plot points of the future, and like that's all it's being
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used for is to speed the movie up. And honestly, like when it
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first comes, it's so disruptive that I'm like, I hate this. I
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hate that they did that. Like this movie is why I love this movie,
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but screw that. This is why I love talk to you about movies,
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because you notice things that like I don't. And it didn't occur to
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me, how random the narration and it being so yeah it for me,
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I didn't really I didn't notice, like it was happening and I was.
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I acknowledge it was happening and I was paying attention, but I didn't realize
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that it didn't start like that, And how distracting. It can be to
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happen like thirty or forty minutes in movie, and like we'd already seen Sarah
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Connor. It's not like it started when we were introduced to Sarah. It
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happens after they escape the mental ward. Yeah, that's like super far in
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too. That's like weirdly far in to start a narration aspect too, just
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to help like get all the details across. I do say, I will
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say, like I think it is. It speaks to the strengths of this
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movie that like, that's one of the few weaknesses I will call out,
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right, I do think it's kind of a large one, but it's it's
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still like a great and solid movie, you know. Yeah, but that
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one does like I've never noticed that either, Nick, And like this time
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around, watching it, like as an adult, it was like, what
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the hell. It reminded me of Spider Man three, where we've we've had
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Toby maguire as Spider Man for one and two, and then all of a
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sudden at the start of Spider Man three, same director, he's just narrating
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the story for some reason, like as if we've never been introduced I'm Spider
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Man. It's like yeah, we freaking know, what are you talking about?
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Like, why are you narrating now? We're not going down at Spider
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Man three rabbit hole because well, this would be turned into a ten hour
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podcast episode about why the movie is terrible and should have never been made.
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We're not gonna do that episode. That's not the episode we're doing today.
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We're talking about Terminator two Judgment Day and about the time travel specifically, so
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we should speak of time travel. Well, at a later date we'll talk
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about it, but that means we'd have to watch that movie again, and
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it's on my no watch list. So anyway, moving on to time travel
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and Terminator two, I will say, even though the movie was ahead of
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its time effects wise, rewatching it years down the road, the special effects
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for how the time travel is takes place is now in twenty twenty four hysterical
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and slightly cringe especially like the you know the orb that essentially like they like
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appear in this orb, which really is just like them being shot through space
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time creating a hole in like the fabric of reality, right so that they
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can like travel back in time. And this hole destroys anything that it touches
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when it like appears in the present time. So like when when when T.
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Eight hundred shows up, you know, like he like disintegrates this semi
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truck or part of the semi truck because that's just where he appears. And
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then when T one thousand shows up, he disintegrates like the gate. It's
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like a perfect circle out of this gate. But it's like it you know,
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it's it's it's just a little funny, and you know that's what happens
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when you watch like then ahead of its time. Really cool, but now
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you watch it and you're like, well, there are way better ways to
10:22
do that. And if the technology was already that good, they probably could
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have figured out a way for him to like not have to destroy things when
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they get back into the when they go back in time. So but I'm
10:35
already flying back to the future rules. I love that they destroy things when
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they just another time. It's an old time travel movie thing. They just
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destroy stuff when they travel back in time to rent something when you maybe down
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the path. Uh yeah, that was that. We don't talk about the
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fact that you know, like in Back to the Future. Uh, Doc
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Brown is so worried about like influencing the past, right and then changing the
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future. But like every time they use the time machine they run into something
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and destroy it. So like, is that not going to have huge,
11:15
somehow huge ramifications of the future. It could more so than like I don't
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know, like Doc reading a letter. Well maybe not Doc. Doc survived,
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so maybe not. That's a bad example, but you know what I
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mean, he's not worried about that. I don't know, no time chronologies
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plus, right, and the barn scene is a great example too, when
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like the whole family is just like, what the heck is this alien in
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our barn? Like how does that anything? Right? Yeah, so ridiculous?
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Who knows. But that's the other thing too, uh about this movie,
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right, Like both like The Resistance and the the the Computer, you
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know, the AI Skynet, both send back, both send back a terminator,
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but they will both only send back one, which you know, part
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of these things are just for movie purposes too, right, But I kind
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don't know. I guess I found it interesting that like the Resistance figured out
12:20
how to send one back to in this case, right, And then also
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they explained later that like John Connor was able to reprogram t T eight hundred
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to make him good and make him on their side, which is which is
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a really cool, like uh plot point in the film, right, that's
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completely different from the t one. So I thought that was pretty sweet.
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Yeah, we we haven't talked about him yet, but like, this is
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the movie that I believe catapulted Arnold Schwarzenegger into like super stardom. Ah,
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and he's awesome in this movie. Man, He's like the acting direction he's
13:01
given is just, hey, be emotionless and be like robot. And I
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don't know how hard that is, but like, hey, he does it,
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and like he gets that tearful goodbye at the end, and so you
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know what, bravo. But here's the cool thing about the roboticness. I
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was watching the Netflix documentary of him. You know, he is like a
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four episode thing with about Schwartzenegger, Like it's his documentary, like he's in
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and the whole thing and talking about it, and he's talking about Terminator and
13:28
about when he got cast, and a lot of the roboticness was actually like
13:35
a suggestion by him. He was like, this guy is a is an
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AI, Like he's he's he's a computer program. He should be his movements
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should be more robotic. And so he like, I think a lot of
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that was him actually coming up with it on his own, like, oh
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no, that this is what he should be. Which when I saw that,
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I was like, that's awesome, Like that he's actually thinking of ways
14:01
to make the character better and improve. So that was like a really cool
14:05
seasoned actors willing to explore a character in that. So I got a kick
14:11
out of that. And so you just triggered my memory of bringing that roboticness
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up. So it wasn't I don't know if it was so much of a
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Cameron direction as it was Arnold being like, this is what it should be,
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like you look good. I don't want to give Cameron any credit.
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He gets enough already. Oh my god, Joseph James Cameron Hader. I
14:28
don't even know why. I really know. I like most of his movies.
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I for some reason, I just feel better toward him. I don't
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know why. Yeah, well that's okay. Do you know the famous oh
14:43
my god, what's his name, the famous astrophysicist Neil de grass Tyson.
14:48
You know, the famous Nel Grass James Cameron's story. I don't think so,
14:52
oh man, okay, So Neil de Grass Tyson watches Titanic, and
14:56
he loves pointing out when things in astronomy are incorrect. And in Titanic,
15:01
when the boat is going down in the night sky, he can see the
15:05
stars and he's like, those were those wouldn't have been the stars in the
15:09
sky that night. And he's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell James that.
15:11
And like one day, like like I don't know how many years later,
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they find themselves out of dinner together and like he's so excited to like
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bring this up, and he's like, James, your movie was pretty good,
15:24
but guy all wrong, my friend all wrong. And James Cameron's like,
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oh my god, that's that's crazy. I can't believe we messed that
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up. Can you imagine how much more money we would have made it if
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we've got the night Sky? Right? I don't like him. That's hilarious.
15:43
That's so funny, right, like that that's so great, And how
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he said it, He's like, I walked away with the L on that
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one somehow. Yeah, that's such an l that's so funny. Oh my
15:56
goodness. Yeah, I mean, come on, you can't one of the
16:00
highest grossing films of all time. You can't complain about that. That's ridiculous.
16:03
Come on, Neil, get it together, buddy. Unbelievable. All
16:08
right, Nick, I know, I know you are a huge, a
16:11
big fan of this movie. Yeah, tell me something I don't know about
16:17
this movie, all right. So I wonder if you noticed this, because
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it was glaring glaring to me, and I couldn't find anything in a quick
16:30
search online if this was done purposely. But I have a hunch that there
16:37
are some similarities between the scene at the end when Terminator Schwarzenegger's Terminator has been
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like just completely ravaged by the T one thousand, right like he's been He's
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got his arm chopped off, his face is half like half robot, and
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he's on the ground and he's just like crawling with one arm, just crawling
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on the ground with one arm after being like ripped to shreds. Well,
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that looks an awful lot like Anakin Skywalker at the end of Revenge of the
17:11
Sith when he's been destroyed by Obi Wan and he's missing limbs and he's crawling
17:18
on the on the ground. It was just like such a such a glaring
17:23
similarity that my first thought was, Man, did George Lucas steal that scene
17:30
like when they filmed Revenge of the Sith from James Cameron, because like it's
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so like it's the same thing. It's so it's so close together. I
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couldn't find anything quickly online, and there are some people who have I think,
17:45
also made the connection and put some clips together. So but I don't
17:49
know if there's been a quote from George Lucas saying that I haven't dug deep
17:55
enough yet though either. I didn't have to be like that. You're not
17:59
the only one on who's picking up all that's gotta be something like, uh
18:03
so pretty pretty glaring. So I figured that that would be a fun little
18:07
thing to bring up. I love that there's you know, the more I
18:11
think about it, there's no way. There's no way it's a coincidence.
18:15
He drew from that. Yeah, yeah, especially because like the arms missing,
18:19
the arms missing on Terminator, the arm is missing on Anakin. They're
18:23
both like they've both just been like got their asses kicked, and they're both
18:27
on the ground like crawling basically with one arm. Like it's like and they're
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both and their faces are like just burnt and on fire. Basically they're they're
18:37
both like in environments where there's like lava lava, Yeah, exactly like lava.
18:45
We've got a weirdly similar Yeah. And let's also talk about how like
18:49
we just have a lit liquid nitrogen truck all of a sudden makes its way
18:53
into a molten lava factory. And I don't know what goes on in those
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factories, all right, I don't know. Chemist maybe that happens every day
19:00
the nineties, the nineties. I do have one of my favorite practical effects
19:08
from this movie is so two one thousand. You know, he has that
19:12
very like mercurial look to him where he becomes like liquid metal, right,
19:18
Yeah, and it's super weird. I really love it. There's this moment
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towards the end of the movie, it's after the liquid nitrogen thing, where
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he freezes him right, and the lava are it's some kind of fires nearby,
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and it's like heating up the ice so he's able to like reform.
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How they did that was this is crazy to me. They actually poured mercury
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on the ground, right, actual mercury, and they started just blowing it
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around with a leaf blower right to just like have it move. And then
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for the movie. They just played that footage in reverse to make it look
19:57
like it's reassembling itself. Oh brilliant. Right, that's such a great idea.
20:06
That seems really unsafe. Yeah, it seems hopefully it was a controlled
20:10
environment. Uh, we know how save Hollywood tends to be. That's a
20:15
very cool practical effect though. I love stuff like that. That's fantastic.
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All right, let's get into it. Let's talk about time travel, all
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right, but before we do, say, yeah, a quick word from
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ours all right, and welcome back. As Nick just stated stated stated time
20:36
travel for this movie. Okay, Nick, would you do us the honors?
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How does the time travel this movie work? Well, that's a great
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question now that I'm really thinking about it, because we don't actually know how
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it works. And this might be uh, this will hurt my score of
20:53
course, which will make Joe happy, because I thought about it after finishing
20:57
this film. So full are My movies have had pretty good scores from a
21:03
time travel mechanic perspective, and Joe's had a couple couple on the board with
21:07
not so good explanations. And unfortunately I picked this one for you know,
21:12
because I loved it. But the time travel information is not ideal. We
21:18
don't know how they're time traveling. We just know that it's been invented in
21:22
some future where sky Net has taken over, and we know that they are
21:26
able to send back one terminator. But we also know somehow the Resistance also
21:33
has learned how to time travel, or they learned that or they were able
21:37
to infiltrate. However, you know Skynet is time traveling and use their use
21:44
their machinery once. So we just know that it's possible, and but we
21:49
don't know what what the what the actual like mechanic is. We don't know
21:56
if they're time traveling. It doesn't look like they're time traveling in anything,
22:00
because based on the beginning of the movie, they're just like my thought process
22:04
is they're being shot through like a vacuum in space time and just like as
22:11
their bodies and then they're just appearing safely. And I don't know if it
22:18
has to do with the fact that they're robots essentially so they can withstand the
22:26
whatever force of space time is being pushed on them, so that they're able
22:30
to like withstand that. I don't know if a human could actually do that
22:33
based on this particular form of time travel. But again we don't have a
22:37
lot of information there. We also don't know if they can go back to
22:42
where they came from. It doesn't seem so it seems like they're not able
22:45
to be pulled back. We're like in a twelve Monkey's you know, they're
22:49
able to be He was able to be in the movie Twelve Monkeys. He
22:52
gets he's able to go back from back and forth, you know. And
22:56
in Back to the Future there's the deloreum where you're able to go back and
23:00
forth. But in this movie, they're sending two robots back in time,
23:04
and it seems like they're not able to go back to the future. That's
23:11
the time travel basically of Terminator two Judgment day. Let's talk about the problems
23:18
with that. I'm glad you brought up twelve Monkeys, because like, yeah,
23:22
this time travel feels weirdly similar to twelve Monkeyes, right, Like you
23:26
really don't get to I mean, you get to see a little bit more
23:30
than maybe you do in twelve Monkeys, but like, yeah, they just
23:33
kind of up here back right, right. But something that you brought up
23:38
that I actually think I kind of dig about this movie about its time travel,
23:44
right. So you brought up the fact that it's a one way trip,
23:48
right, right, And I think that's super interesting because, like in
23:51
the first movie, we know that Skynet sends T eight hundred back in time
23:57
to kill Sarah Connor, right, to kill Sarah Connor. But by doing
24:03
that, it's actually it's creating itself, right, because it leaves the microchip,
24:08
it leaves the hand, and it's this bootstrap paradox, right, It's
24:12
very twelve monkeys actually that it creates itself. There's a loop that ends up
24:17
happening here, a causality loop, right, And in this movie, you
24:22
know, we kind of explore that a little bit further, right with T
24:25
eight hundred and then T one thousand coming into like the loop now, right,
24:30
or I guess like we're outside the loop, and it's the path to
24:33
create the sky Net future, which appears to be only slightly different than what
24:37
was originally there. So the future was altered, right, Okay, Now
24:42
to the point of what you were saying with it's a one way trip,
24:48
and actually I didn't even think about that until you brought it up. But
24:51
something I really like about this is, so do you remember an Avengers Endgame.
24:57
It's amazing how often we quote the movie for the time travel traft.
25:04
But uh, Bruce Banner starts talking about how like back to the future,
25:10
you know, doesn't make sense. You can't like you know, do the
25:14
grandfather thing and like accidentally, like you know, erase yourself from from the
25:19
present because you've returned to the past, but from your perspective, that is
25:23
your now new present. Right. So I like the fact that they can't
25:29
go back to the future in this in this universe, the way time works,
25:32
it's just one singular path, right, And they can't go back to
25:37
their future because it doesn't exist anymore, right, right, They're they're just
25:41
in this timeline now. And I guess if you're Skynet, like you're sending
25:45
something back and you've learned. Oh well maybe it didn't learn this. I
25:49
don't know. I don't know if it has omnipotent omniscing right knowledge, but
25:55
it created itself, right, and if you keep sending things back, I
25:57
don't know how that works, but anyway, it didn't. Anyway, we
26:03
know that their future has been ensured by Skynet. Now we're in this new
26:07
this new path right where T eight hundred is here and they're trying to save
26:11
John. They save John. Both machines are destroyed, and presumably the future
26:18
has been saved because there's no way for Skynet to be created anymore. The
26:22
loop has been collapsed. Right. I have a problem with this, but
26:27
overall, I actually think the path sort of makes sense, right, Like,
26:34
yeah, that the path makes sense, And it is very cool that
26:38
it's a one way trip, and it's it's the first movie we were reviewed
26:41
in the time travel draft that as a one way trip. I believe,
26:45
right, Yeah, I think that everything else has some kind of loop or
26:49
ending or traveling back to where they came from. Situation going on, except
26:56
maybe Groundhog Day, but that's slightly different because it's more like a zillion branch
27:03
timelines rather than like a one way trip. Is absolutely insane. Yeah,
27:07
yeah, So it's really cool that it's a one way trip, and especially
27:12
when you kind of think about it like long term rise, right, Like
27:15
it's like, okay, well, they destroy both terminators at the end,
27:19
they get rid of all the evidence presumably, so then you know what happens
27:26
to the sky net that existed that sent them back, and you know,
27:33
we don't get an answer. Obviously in T two we kind of get an
27:37
answer because they remade or not remade, but they made a third Terminator movie
27:41
in like two thousand and three, so they did continue the storyline, so
27:45
we kind of get an answer. The answer there is you know that it
27:51
all all at Terminator to Judgment Day did was delay Judgment Day, that Judgment
27:56
Day still comes. That's the Terminator three essentially, like plot line, you
28:03
just hit my biggest problem with this franchise. Okay, right, okay,
28:11
So the end of this movie, right, the one that you and I
28:14
just saw, it's just a little ambiguous, right, It's like, oh
28:18
no, maybe maybe we can learn the value of life like these machines,
28:21
and then doesn't really address anything. And then we know that there's Terminator three
28:25
and then Genesis and I think I have that out of order actually, but
28:26
three is something else and then Genesis. Right, But there's an alternate version
28:33
or alternate ending of this movie right where we see Sarah Connor like seventy years
28:41
in the future, and she's like an old lady and she talks about how
28:45
like Judgment Day came and went and we all lived through it. We had
28:49
saved the future and then she says the line that we know, like the
28:53
if machines can learn to value life, maybe we can too. Right,
28:57
So there's there's a script. We're like T two is just the end of
29:00
it. It's just over right, Yeah, and that's it. So like,
29:06
what the hell are there two different timelines now? Like what what is
29:08
this? Well, technically yes, and the first timeline is Terminator one and
29:14
Terminator two and that's the James Cameron Terminator timeline and universe because James Cameron was
29:19
like, nah, I told the story, I'm done. I ain't coming
29:22
back from number three. So it was James Cameron didn't come back, So
29:27
but did Yeah, but Swartzenegger did. If I'm not mistaken, Cameron was
29:34
was not involved in the future ones, so that could be part of the
29:38
part of the issue there. Yeah, yeah, bigger fist. At that
29:44
point, he was already writing Avatar. He was just waiting for the effects
29:47
to catch hup. But yeah, definitely. You know, when when you
29:55
think about Terminator three and all the others that came here, kind of it
29:57
kind of makes a little disappointing from this perspective, from the you know,
30:03
how a Terminator two finishes because it was so open ended, but like it
30:07
also blows blows away like what I was saying about, like, ah,
30:11
yeah, they can't go back to the future because that doesn't exist anymore.
30:14
It didn't create another timeline. It's saved timeline. It's just different now,
30:18
right right, Yeah, But like not with those two endings and the continuation
30:22
of judgment day later, like like the other sequels of this movie kind of
30:27
almost ruined this movie a little bit, right, So I'm not gonna hold
30:33
that against this movie. I'm just holding it against the franchise, right Yeah,
30:37
agreed, agreed. Movie that wise though, like obviously just want a
30:42
kick ass action film, actually sci fi time travel just badass. Can we
30:49
talk? I mean, we definitely want to talk a little bit more about
30:52
the time travel and we'll get into scores in the second. But I forgot
30:56
how like gruesome some of thesees were in this movie, Like the nuclear scene
31:03
when they give you like the example of what like the whole like like the
31:06
nuclear warheads going off, right, which is premonition. Oh my gosh.
31:12
I was like this is like I was like you could cut in footage of
31:15
this and footage from like Oppenheimer and like cut them together, Like there's got
31:19
to be something you can cut in together. Just I just I don't know
31:23
why I thought. I obviously I thought of Oppenheimer when that scene happened,
31:26
because it's just like recent. But man, what a I was just gruesome.
31:32
I was like, this is kind of gross, like and then they've
31:33
got like the skeleton just still hanging on the gate. I'm like, what
31:37
are we doing? Nineteen ninety one? Let's go. It's so ridiculous,
31:42
you know, like that like that's that is not how it would work.
31:48
It's a weird combination of like really silly and also like horrifically gruesome. Yeah,
31:53
it's a perfect thing. It's like hilariously gruesome. Like what like what
31:59
do we talk think about? Like half of my notes are me laughing because
32:01
of how silly some of the gruesome parts look. Anyway, I had to
32:07
I had to bring that up because it was so weird. It was so
32:09
weird. I had to bring it up. But but yeah, like from
32:15
a time travel you know perspective, obviously, like we don't have a lot
32:17
of like mechanic, like we don't know what the time travel mechanism is or
32:22
what the tool is, right, like there's not like a car or a
32:27
machine necessarily. It just we know it's there's a machine. There's lightning,
32:35
right, there's like a lightning and a and a and a and a circular
32:38
thing that appears. It destroys anything that it touches, but it doesn't keep
32:43
the hole in the ozone layer ripped it. You know, the air is
32:47
still there after it disappears. And I guess the machine is the machine that's
32:53
traveling. Uh, it's all the time, I like to think of it.
32:58
So it's it's the time just placement machine. I forgot if that's mentioned
33:01
in this movie or a different one, But I like to think of it
33:05
like it's a cannon, right, it just yeah, it's just right,
33:10
that's that's exactly what it feels like it is. It feels like it's a
33:14
cannon, except like they're not crashing when they land. When they get to
33:20
where they're going, they like perfectly, well they're crashing in the sense that
33:27
like whatever wherever they like populate is just like they're just if they're touching anything,
33:32
it's destroyed. But they themselves are like landing perfectly and there's no you
33:37
know, like issue with how they're appearing in the New Timeline. Basically,
33:45
I do have one time travel question, and I forgot if this movie,
33:49
like it came up with a reason for it or not. Do we know
33:52
why John knows to send the T eight hundred into the past to stop the
33:59
T one thousand, because like, like, if you think about it,
34:01
it's it's so for the present, like you know the way it works,
34:06
you know, T eight hundred shows up just a little bit before two one
34:08
thousand, right, and then the movie happens, right, and eventually both
34:12
of them are destroyed, right, but John is saved. But old John,
34:16
like, how did how did he know that the T one thousand was
34:22
being sent back? And they were like, oh snap, we got to
34:24
send back our own and kill our android to kill that android, right and
34:29
save me? Like do we know why he knew that? And also like
34:32
if he did, how did he do that? Because the second the two
34:37
one thousand goes back, like, doesn't that reality not exist anymore? These
34:40
questions are too too too big for the scope of this movie and the information
34:45
that we have given to us. Come on, James, come on,
34:51
it's a it's a fascinating question, and it's one of the big problems with
34:53
the time travel mechanism in this film because we don't have an explanation that they
34:57
did not give us an explanation for why John you that he had to send
35:00
T eight hundred back because T one T one thousand was sent. My only
35:06
thought process, there is a sense clearly the Resistance somehow knows that they can
35:10
time travel, that that knows how to time travel as well. There's some
35:14
sort of system that tells you something has time traveled and to where that sky
35:19
Net and the Resistance both can see. So sky Net. Once the sky
35:22
Net sends back T one thousand, John just automatically knows it based on whatever
35:29
monitoring systems are going on Net. He's like, oh, they said someone
35:34
said, send our own guy, send our own guy. Yeah, I
35:36
don't know what he's doing yet, our own guy. Yeah. It makes
35:38
no sense because I don't think there was any part of the movie where like
35:45
T. Eight hundred was like, yeah, John remembered this happening, so
35:49
he knew when to send me back, you know, not there was there
35:52
was no like loop situation kind of like past thought happening in the present or
35:59
anything like that. From that perspective, the time travel in this movie is
36:04
a little messier than it was in the first movie. Yeah unless in the
36:07
first movie. Yeah unless in the first movie there was more information given or
36:14
it's implied that, like, well, no, because the second movie happens
36:21
because of what happens in the first movie, So never mind, there wouldn't
36:22
have been Yeah, never mind. Oh wait wait, I guess Actually no,
36:28
I forgot about Kyle Reese because Kyle the first movie is sent back.
36:30
So it's actually it's a simple issue. Yeah, it's a similar issue,
36:36
but like I don't what I was gonna say is like, yeah, Kyle
36:37
rees could have told them that, Like, but they sent Kyle. They
36:44
sent that, they sent Terminator back, and the Resistance sent Kyle Reese to
36:49
make sure that Kyle Reese would have John with Sarah Connor's super weird paradox there.
36:55
But like that happens, and the reason that T two happens is because
37:02
they kill the Resistance wins and kills and gets rid of the Terminator in Terminator
37:07
one. So then Skynett sends it more improved Terminator years later when John Connors
37:15
is a kid to try to stifle him in that moment. So like there's
37:24
no like when Kyle Risk goes back in Terminator one, he doesn't know that
37:30
sky Neet's going to send a T one thousand, you know, eight years
37:34
later, fifteen years later or whatever the number is. So yeah, we
37:38
just don't know why. We don't know how the Resistance knows that there's been
37:43
a T one thousand cent back in time. We don't know who invented time
37:45
travel, assuming it was Skynett, So my score is gonna be really low
37:52
for that. The last part, we do know Skynett did invent time dravel,
37:58
We do know that is responsible for time travel. How I don't freaking
38:02
know that that's never explained? Yeah, man, all right, what's next?
38:10
What else you got? I think we're oh wait, no, there
38:14
is one point thing super quick, just a funny hole in the movie that
38:17
I'm like looking at him like why so so this is so small, but
38:22
like I have to point it out. So T one thousand that moment where
38:29
admittedly this is a badass moment where T one thousand has Sarah Connor pinned right
38:35
and he's got like his needle finger like through her. Yeah, so wrong,
38:39
But anyway, he's got like the other finger like ready to like stab
38:44
her through the eye and he's like called John, and you know she's like
38:47
fuck you, you know, like Gray right, super badass. Actually we
38:52
haven't talked about Sarah enough in this movie. Sarah rules, Sarah total total
38:57
badas. Anyway, Uh, why do you do that he can mimic her
39:01
voice? In fact, he does it like what five minutes later when he
39:06
transforms into her, Like, yeah, why do you say that? So
39:12
the second that, literally a scene later, he starts mimicking her voice.
39:16
Yeah, My thought was maybe he needed her to speak directly to him while
39:22
he was actually like to actually like record it and process how her voice sounds,
39:28
rather than like just picking it up from her like yelling during the fight
39:32
scenes throughout the rest of the film, because they hadn't really had one on
39:35
one connection yet. So that was my thought. That was, like,
39:40
she spoke enough words when they were face to face for him to like process
39:45
the tone of her voice and to be able to mimic it later. I
39:49
just thought it was really funny that the very next scene we get her looking
39:52
for John, where we're just all like we're like, yeah, okay,
39:55
obviously it's the T one thousand because Sarah's like about to bleed out on the
40:00
floor in the other room, but like, you know, her son obviously,
40:04
yeah it does, but her son doesn't know. But it's like,
40:07
as an audience member, it's a little infuriating because you're just like, I
40:10
mean, okay, the kid's smart. Though you expect me to believe the
40:15
kid. I guess. I guess it makes sense that he thinks it's his
40:17
mom. But also, come on, it's like this kid like is super
40:23
smart based on all the things he's already been able to do in this film,
40:27
like one thousand, he's smart too. As soon as John turns the
40:30
corner and then it's there, why does it kill him? Why is it
40:34
weaving? Like come closer, little ones like no, you got your stretching
40:37
fingers, just do it? Yeah, exactly. So there you know,
40:42
suspenseful moments being built by mister mister Cameron. Anyway, all right, I'll
40:49
give you. I'll give you the defense of the voice though, I'll give
40:51
you that. Yeah, thank you. That's the only thing I could think
40:54
of. Yeah, uh, are we are we doing? Are we doing?
41:00
Uh? Scores? Yeah? I think so. I think it's score
41:04
time. Great, so uh uh, if you don't mind, I would
41:08
like to go first. I think, uh, I think I usually go
41:12
second. I'm gonna yeah, great, let me tell you go first.
41:15
Yeah. So this movie, this movie is awesome. Uh so oh yeah,
41:20
just as far as scores go. Just as a reminder, we're going
41:22
to score out out of five, and we're scoring in three different categories.
41:27
Uh overall, how is the movie to what or how did the time travel
41:31
mechanic do in its own film right? If it worked well or if it
41:37
broke rules or if it was sloppy. And then of course, how did
41:40
this movie do in the category it was drafted in? And as a reminder,
41:45
we're talking about classic time travel movies. Okay, so so okay,
41:50
overall, I'm going to give this movie. I want to give this movie
41:54
a four. Uh so, just solid solid four. It's a it's a
41:59
fun movie. It's got some holes, a little tiny ones, and the
42:04
narration thing really does make me mad, but this movie is a staple in
42:08
in cinema history and it's super fun. Yep, it was a respectable score.
42:16
So overall, I'm actually gonna go a little lower and we can give
42:19
it a three point eight three point eight unbiased. My own movie pic you
42:24
know three eight just because you know, I think it was a little long,
42:29
you pointing out the narration thing like blew my mind, because like you're
42:34
right about it, and yes, slightly long, and like I like to
42:39
grade movies based on like rewatchability because I love to rewatch movies. And it's
42:45
not that I wouldn't rewatch this film. I would, but because of the
42:51
length and while the effects were ahead of its time and some of the and
42:55
really awesome. Now with how spoiled we are, sometimes it can make me
43:01
like not hit play on an older movie because I'm like, ah, but
43:06
the effects are a little cheesy now, Like I'd rather rewatch Endgame because it's
43:10
just badass, you know that kind of thing. So that's the main reason
43:14
I'm gonna give it a three point eight. But definitely like that's a good
43:17
score though, like three point out of five is like better than a lot
43:22
of movies. So anyway, that's what I'm going with time travel. Yeah,
43:30
Okay, so this is tricky, right because, like as we discussed,
43:34
h so it's it's the horror you look at the time travel this movie,
43:38
the wonkyer it gets, right, Okay, So I'm gonna try and
43:44
be fair as fair as possible with this. Okay, So the time travel,
43:50
it lays out the mechanic is it's it seems simple. It's just it
43:53
seems like it's just a one shot into the past and you're gonna change the
43:57
thing that you're gonna change, and like that's it, right, And supposedly
44:01
if you don't take the other sequels into account, we do see that actually
44:05
play out. It plays out the way that it says it's supposed to.
44:09
But as far as like why the time travel even happens to begin with,
44:14
that doesn't make any sense really, and there's no good explanation for it other
44:17
than Skyne invented it. But like the Resistance has it and like they knew
44:22
to like send back. There's just so many questions, right, So I'm
44:28
going to be a little lower here, but it's not going to be as
44:30
bad as Back to the Future. I'm going to go to five here.
44:34
Wow, Okay, nice, I was expecting it to be a little lower.
44:37
Not gonna lie. Yeah, for me, it's so tough, like
44:45
we don't this is this it it. It feels like it's one of the
44:52
worst ones that we've done. Like I think Groundhog Day is probably the worst
44:55
so far, right, and Back to the Future is really bad as well.
45:04
But Back to the Future had a really cool like tool for time travel,
45:08
so that like helped its score, right, Like Dolorian is like the
45:10
coolest way to time travel ever, right, so like most stylish way to
45:14
time travel. Great. The thing that this movie has going forward is that
45:17
it's a one way trip, which I think is super cool, so it
45:22
helps give it a point or two. But we have no other info time
45:29
travel wise. We know Skyda invented it. That's it, like Skinda invented
45:32
it. We can send machines back, but as far as we know,
45:37
each group of people can only send back one machine and then that's it.
45:42
We have no and like and then it just like shoots them through space time
45:45
and wherever they end up, like there's destruction of like their surrounding area.
45:53
So this like creates like a black hole for a moment, but they were
45:59
able to time travel through it. Super weird. No explanation, like I
46:05
have to give it like a two. It's like a two. It is
46:08
nothing. There's no impo. Do you remember what you gave Back to the
46:12
Future. No, but I'm pretty sure it was higher than a two because
46:15
of the DeLorean is so cool. Yeah, I think we actually and like
46:21
yeah, okay, because I think I gave to the future too, and
46:23
you gave it a two five and that here we are in reverse, right,
46:28
Well, but like that's the thing, like at least back to the
46:30
future because we see the DeLorean, we have information like, oh, you
46:35
know you can this is how you can set to travel to the past.
46:37
You can set the travel to the future. You can put the dates in
46:40
like you have like information on how to We don't. The science doesn't work,
46:45
but you have information on how Here we have no information on how it's
46:49
done. We the science doesn't work because we don't know what it even is,
46:54
right, because like if it's a black hole that like they're going through
46:58
and like you're essentially creating a black hole for a moment, like you would
47:00
think that anything would get sucked into that in that moment before the black hole
47:04
closes. So they have a technology to like open up a hole in space
47:07
time without like doing any other destruction except for like whatever might be in that
47:14
quick little vicinity. Like it just just made no sense. It should probably
47:16
be lower than a two. But I've already. I've already given the score,
47:20
so it's a two going lower. I'm now two three if you want
47:27
to go lowery, No, I shouldn't allow you to update your score after
47:30
I've convinced you you've already given a score, but I'll allow it for this
47:34
one time. Yeah, okay, commit to yourib Yeah you should have given
47:40
it. Yeah you by you doing a two five, it left me be
47:45
like, well, I won't give my own movie a tear too bad of
47:47
a score. I'll definitely be lower though, going lower than back to the
47:52
future and back to the future, Like you're right about like the method.
47:55
The method actually makes a lot more sense than here, but like the actual
48:02
like rules that are broken throughout like are horrible, and like that doesn't make
48:08
any sense, which is why I put it where I did this one.
48:14
Like as far as like I guess the stuff that it breaks, it's not
48:17
as bad and it seems pretty like linear afterward. But yet nothing about the
48:22
actual origins of the time travel make any sense. Yeah, facts, all
48:30
right, Okay, how well does it fit into the category, Joe,
48:32
how well does it fit into the category? Okay, So Nick, this
48:36
may shock you. This is actually where I'm gonna come down low on it
48:39
because here's the thing. So time travel is in this movie, right,
48:44
but if I tuned into like the middle of this movie, I might not
48:52
ever know that there was time travel involved in this movie, like at all.
48:55
You know what I mean, You might not know. You might not
48:59
know, like even though it's like it's the reason why this movie is happening,
49:02
Like you almost never see it happen. They really don't talk about it
49:06
a lot. They talk about just the future, right, And like if
49:09
you're just tuned in in the middle of the movie, well, like that
49:12
could be happening for any number of reasons that don't have to do with time
49:15
travel. Right. This is hilarious. This is really hilarious. I know
49:22
bad about this because, like I mean, as far as where else would
49:25
you draft this movie? In this draft, I don't think that there is
49:30
another spot that would make more sense than classic time travel. But by the
49:34
same virtue, I when I think of this movie, I don't think of
49:36
time travel. I think of sci fi, right, And that is to
49:39
say that time travel isn't sci fi. But you know what I mean when
49:43
I say that, So honestly, I'm going I'm going low here. This
49:49
will probably be my lowest for category. I think it's a two. A
49:53
two for category. You're in a little shit. You're just trying to catch
49:59
up. You're so pissed. How far I am such a little piece.
50:02
That's such a fag. Yeah, there's no way, it's a two.
50:06
I'm so mad at you right now. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous.
50:13
Well, okay, so your your point makes sense. I will give
50:16
you that. If you turn this movie on five minutes after it starts,
50:22
there's not a lot more talk about time travel, and you might not ever
50:25
hear, like, you might not realize it's technically a time travel film,
50:29
because there's no it's a one way trip. One way trip happens at the
50:32
beginning, and then they spend the whole time talking about preventing a future war.
50:37
Okay, great, However, we do know that it is a time
50:43
travel movie and it did come out in nineteen ninety one, which you know,
50:49
depending on who you are, I think, for the most part,
50:52
can be considered a classic at this point in time. For sure. For
50:55
sure, y'ah knows you with that. So that's the problem is you're ignoring
51:00
the fact that you know that it is a time travel movie. By giving
51:04
it a two, that's the problem that I have. You're making a valid
51:09
point, but to give it a too purely based off the fact that,
51:14
like, like most people, if they're gonna turn on a movie halfway through,
51:19
they're not gonna finish it anyway unless they've already seen it and they know
51:22
what's going on. That's my main problem. So two is egregious. And
51:27
to counteract your two, I'm giving it a five. And now we've gone
51:35
completely off the rails of the scoring, completely biased. Is over? It
51:38
doesn't ever, the game has been destroyed. You know what. I'm surprised
51:45
it took us this many time travel drift movies to completely get the integrity out
51:49
the window. Unbelievable. That was like a rubber band. I went low
51:52
and you were like, no, okay, all jokes aside, All jokes
52:00
aside. I'm gonna give it a four for the classic category being a four
52:05
because I do think that there is an argument to be made that it's not
52:08
technically a classic yet based on Coming Out NIGHTE to ninety one. Why would
52:15
you say that, Well, like, just from a time perspective, like
52:20
and it's the second one, So like, I think you could make a
52:22
case like Time Terminator one is more of a time travel classic based on the
52:27
year it was released and it being the first one in the series, this
52:30
being the second follow up. I'm just saying that I think a case could
52:34
be made for it not being you know, like fitting in a category for
52:40
a five out of five, Like it's a four out of five, so
52:43
it's still for me like a time travel classic. But I'm just trying to
52:46
I'm trying to be unbiased and like give the reasons for you know that are
52:51
reasonable, reasonable reasons, Joe, this is a reasonable podcast. I thought
52:58
I do a two. Unbelievable. Okay, we'll find out what our friends
53:05
think online. I can't wait. Unbelievable anyway, Ah well, we will
53:13
see about that. Uh and we'll talk about that on our next episode of
53:17
Mad the Review be with you, please,