Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / "Duchess" Meghan Markle Dad Accused: Vile Abuse, Twisted Images

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"Duchess" Meghan Markle Dad Accused: Vile Abuse, Twisted Images · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Tonight, Meghan Markle's dad moves to the Philippines where 12-year-old
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: girls are legal?
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: What?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: A bombshell explodes between Great Britain, the U.S., and the Philippines.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Meghan Markle's estranged father, Thomas Markle Sr., is reportedly under
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: investigation after his son allegedly discovered thousands of child sexual
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: abuse images and videos on devices in the Philippines.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: I've helped her with every step of her life up
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: to that point. For her to suddenly, like, forget me,
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: take me out of the picture and forget my name
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: and suddenly do this ghosting thing is very harmful and
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: hurtful to me. I don't exist. I am talked out
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: of every conversation. After the wedding, I kept trying to
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: call her all the time. Eventually, the phone just wasn't
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: picking up. So I sent a text to Megan. I
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: was able to text her, and I said, I really
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: want to hear from you, and still didn't hear back
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: from her. My message would be, I love you, I
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: miss you, and I want to be her child's grandfather,
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: and I want to be near them. I want to
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: be a part of their life. When they got married,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: they took on an obligation, and the obligation is to
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: be part of the royals and to represent the royals,
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: and it would be foolish for them not to. This
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: is one of the greatest long-living institutions ever. They're destroying it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: They're cheapening it. They're making it shabby. It's kind of
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: embarrassing to me.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: That is Meghan Markle's father, Thomas Markle, speaking to our
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: friends at Channel 5, stating, quote, I want to be
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: near her children, Archie and Lilibet, that they are making
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the royals look shabby. Tonight, bombshell. reports that a treasure
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: trove of damning evidence. And I've seen photos like this.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: You never want to see them. Don't try to look
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: at them online if they are online. Don't look at
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: them because it will be in your mind forever. I've
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: seen photos like this. If this is true, I wish
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I had never seen them. A treasure trove. of pornographic images,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: including young children, reportedly some of them with Megan's father,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Thomas Markle. Another thing, if this is true, and this
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: is coming from his own son, Thomas Markle Jr., that's
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: who's handed him in. If this is true, The Brits
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: knew about it and didn't tell anyone, did not tell
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: anyone in the U.S. where he was around children, did
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: not tell anyone in the Philippines.
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Is it because he was royal adjacent? Joining us, an
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: all-star panel to make sense of what we know tonight,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. What is happening?
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: Right now, Nancy, the explosion of information is that Thomas
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: Markle Sr., the father of Meghan Markle, his first wife,
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: Rosalind Loveless, sent a letter to law enforcement in Great Britain.
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: We're talking about the Met and Scotland Yard. And they
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: had this seven-page handwritten letter accusing Thomas Markle Sr.
• 4:11
  Speaker 7: Of abusing children.
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: And this sexual molestation of children in the seven-page long
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: letter was very specific, very direct, and was sent to
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: law enforcement.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: In 2018, Nancy.
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  Speaker 6: It's just now coming out where we're finding out about this.
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  Speaker 6: We don't know what action, if any, was taken by
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: law enforcement at that time because it seems like nothing
• 4:36
  Speaker 6: has been done. But now there's been another double whammy.
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: This time, Thomas Markle Jr., Nancy, has reported to the
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: Philippine government. and the FBI, alleging he found child sexual
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: abuse material at his father's former home in Cebu. Now,
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: this is the second instance, the first one coming from
• 5:01
  Speaker 6: Meghan Markle's father's first wife, and now this one coming
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: from Thomas Markle's son, Thomas Markle Jr. Nancy, they've done
• 5:10
  Speaker 6: a raid on Thomas Markle Sr. 's house, and they
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: have found boxes upon boxes of material, videos, pictures, postcards
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: with bestiality. This is going to go.
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: Deeper and deeper.
• 5:24
  Speaker 8: We're just now finding out about a lot of this information.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Joining us in addition to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: is PR guru to the stars Rob Shooter, He's also
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the author of a brand new book, which is climbing
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: the charts. Queen Elizabeth III, The New American House of Windsor.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: How appropriate. Rob Shooter. All of this is culminating, including
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: actual video, which I'm about to show you, of Thomas
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Markle getting a letter from the Duchess of Sussex, as
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: she was known, Meghan Markle. Now, reportedly in this letter,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: She's cutting him off.
• 6:07
  Speaker 7: Watch.
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  Speaker 9: Mr.
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  Speaker 10: Markle, I've been asked to hand-deliver this, first name, by
• 6:12
  Speaker 10: your daughter, Megan.
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  Speaker 2: It is sealed.
• 6:15
  Speaker 11: I need to make sure you know it's sealed.
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  Speaker 9: And then deliver to you.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 6:20
  Speaker 10: You're very welcome. I, Thomas Wayne Markle, hereby acknowledge that
• 6:25
  Speaker 10: I've personally received a sealed letter from the office of
• 6:28
  Speaker 10: Megan Markle and Duchess of Sussex.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Uh-oh.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: And yeah that is from our friends at Daily Mail
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: so Rob Shooter if this is what it purports to
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: be that is him getting a letter from Meghan Markle
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: his daughter married to Prince Harry we're in she cuts
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  Speaker 2: him off and says I know you abused children little
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: girls you will never see Archie and Lilibet again That
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: is purportedly the letter. And I guess they filmed it, Rob,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: to confirm that he had gotten a royal message and
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: that had been sealed when he got it. Okay, what
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: do you make of that?
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there was no trust. When he received this letter
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: in 2025, she had not spoken to him for years.
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: She cut him off just before the wedding. However, in 2025,
• 7:27
  Speaker 7: she did send him this letter because he had had
• 7:30
  Speaker 7: his leg amputated. And there were a lot of questions
• 7:33
  Speaker 7: out there, a lot of rumours that Meghan had cut
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: her dad off and he needed her. And so her
• 7:39
  Speaker 7: office arranged for a letter to be delivered, but there
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: was so little trust at this moment that her office
• 7:46
  Speaker 7: also insisted that it be videotaped, that people there videoed
• 7:51
  Speaker 7: him receiving the letter. He could not pretend he had
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: never seen it. And so in that letter, we now know,
• 7:57
  Speaker 7: we didn't at the time, but now we know in
• 7:59
  Speaker 7: that letter, she tells him why she has cut him
• 8:02
  Speaker 7: off And that is because she believes the accusations that
• 8:06
  Speaker 7: were brought to her attention back in 2019.
• 8:09
  Speaker 12: Do you think that you are going to be able
• 8:13
  Speaker 12: to mend your relationship?
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: The bottom line is, you know, she made a statement
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: saying she lost me. She didn't lose me. I would
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: have always been there for her. I'm there for her
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: now if she wants me. But it's been a long time.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: This thing about the press and so forth, I've done
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: maybe three or six, about six articles for the press.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: I love my daughter very much. Had I known she
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: was having psychological problems, I would have been there for her.
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  Speaker 4: The biggest problem here is she's pretty much ghosted all
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: of her family, on her mother's side and my side. So,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: you know, she really had no one to reach out to.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: She would have had us if she'd kept us.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my stars! That is Markle blabbing on Good Morning Britain.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: At that time, I'm not clear whether Meghan Markle knew
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: about these allegations or suspected these allegations, but the last
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: thing she would want is him bumbling around Buckingham Palace
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: knowing that that he had been accused of molesting children.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, Rob Shooter, it's my understanding that the original
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: falling out was not over child abuse claims. It was
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: over him leaking photos to the press. Remember when he
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: got the photo arranged where he was checking his email
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: somewhere and looking for emails from her and it hit
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: the news and she's like, bye. I don't know if
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: she knew about the allegations at that time.
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: Yeah, initially she didn't. So what happened is he was
• 9:55
  Speaker 7: staging photographs. He was calling paparazzi and they were going
• 9:59
  Speaker 7: to cafes. with him. They even went tuxedo shopping with him.
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: He was buying a tuxedo, renting a tuxedo for the wedding.
• 10:06
  Speaker 7: It became clear these pictures had been staged. And then
• 10:10
  Speaker 7: Meghan and her father stopped speaking. She stopped returning his calls.
• 10:14
  Speaker 7: And then he was meant to walk her down the
• 10:17
  Speaker 7: aisle in May 2018. 18 when she got married. He
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: claims he had a heart attack then and couldn't come.
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: But Meghan had already told him that this has to stop.
• 10:27
  Speaker 7: You have to stop talking to the press. She claims
• 10:30
  Speaker 7: that Buckingham Palace reached out to him to give him advice.
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: This is somebody who wasn't really in that world. He
• 10:36
  Speaker 7: was not a royal. And so all this media attention
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: he claimed at the time was overwhelming. But I think
• 10:42
  Speaker 7: now we know he was calling the press and he
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: was being paid a few hundred dollars to stage photographs.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: The last time we spoke, actually we didn't speak, we
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: actually texted each other. I was laying in a hospital
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: bed after having a heart attack. And I had to
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: tell them that I couldn't come to the wedding. At
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: that point, we pretty much said goodbye. Actually, it wasn't
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: quite saying goodbye.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Again, Thomas Markle blabbing on Good Morning Britain. No wonder
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: they didn't want him around. But it seems to me
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: at that juncture shooter, and that was May 2018, that
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: neither Meghan nor Harry knew about these allegations because Harry
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: actually calls Markle according to Markle and says, hey, if
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: you hadn't blabbed to the press, this wouldn't be happening. Actually,
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  Speaker 2: I'll show you that.
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  Speaker 4: Harry had said to me at that point, If you
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: had listened to me, this wouldn't have happened to you.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: And me laying in a hospital bed after I've had
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: a procedure and getting a stent put here and a
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: stent put here, felt that that was kind of snotty,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: so I hung.
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  Speaker 2: Up on him. I'm just reviewing all the evidence reportedly
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: seized from his home. He's talking about his stents and
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: his leg and his blah and a blah. blabbing on
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Good Morning Britain, you should see this list of items seized. Lolita, books,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you know, about, uh, by Nabokov, about child sex. It's just,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: it's just photos, videos, literally thousands of damning pornographic images
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  Speaker 2: found by his son. Okay, you know, Shooter I'm moving
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: into the actual evidence here, but everybody wants to hear
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: about Meghan Markle and Harry. But Shooter, it seems to
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: me that when she cut him off, she did not
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: know about these allegations that he was cut off because
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: he couldn't keep his gap shut, obviously.
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: Exactly right. That's why she cut him off. He couldn't
• 12:57
  Speaker 7: shut up. He wouldn't shut up. He didn't just do
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: this six or seven times, as he just said in
• 13:01
  Speaker 7: this clip. He was constantly calling the press. He called
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: me several times. He called journalists many, many times. You
• 13:08
  Speaker 7: couldn't get away from Thomas Markle. So that's why she
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: cut him off. We do know because the London police,
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: the Metropolitan Police have now confirmed this. They told her
• 13:18
  Speaker 7: in the top of the year in 2019. So in
• 13:22
  Speaker 7: 2019 is when that letter was brought to Meghan's attention.
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: Once again, that letter did not have this type of evidence,
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: this type of evidence. that you are now reciting, has
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: just become available. Back in 2019, it was an allegation
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: from his ex-wife that was brought to Meghan's attention. And now, today,
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: she finds out just the extent of this awful, awful behavior.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Thomas Markle Sr. has denied all of these allegations, but
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: yet I'm hearing now that she, Meghan, is claiming she
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: cut him off because she knew about these allegations. But
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: the cutting off occurred because he kept yapping to the press.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Is that correct? Just a yes, no, please.
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: Yes, totally correct, Nancy. She cut him off because he
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: was yapping to the press.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: In reality, Rob Shooter, as much as I would like
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to go on and on and on with you about
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: what Markle said when he called you, actually go ahead.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I want to get to the facts of this case
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and whether it's legitimate and what's going to happen. And
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: why the U.S. wasn't told if he is a child
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: abuser of the worst kind, why was he let to
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: roam free in the U.S. and in the Philippines and
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: in Mexico with no warning from the Met or Scotland Yard?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: That said, go ahead. What did Markle say to you
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: when he called you on the mini-academy?
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: Oh, he talked about his daughter. He talked about his
• 14:42
  Speaker 7: daughter constantly. Not always negatively either, let's be honest here.
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: He had some lovely things to say about her. They
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: were very, very close. She was close to to her
• 14:51
  Speaker 7: dad than her mom. And so he would constantly call.
• 14:54
  Speaker 7: And at the time, it sometimes felt like a dad
• 14:57
  Speaker 7: just grieving the loss of his daughter. And so he
• 15:01
  Speaker 7: wanted attention. He likes the spotlight. He likes being the
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: center of everything going on. And so he just couldn't
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: stop calling the press. He couldn't stop phoning in and
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: doing interviews. We saw him then on British TV. Often
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: he was paid for this too. So it wasn't just
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: that he wanted to to say nice things. He wanted
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: the paycheck. He didn't have a lot of money. And
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: so he was selling her out, literally selling her out.
• 15:26
  Speaker 7: And Meghan warned him. Harry warned him. The palace warned him.
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: He did not stop. And that's when she cut him off.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: You stated that what he said to you was, quote,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: your words, not always negative. Did he say negative things
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: about his daughter at all? Yes.
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: He became increasingly angry that she ghosted him, in his words.
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: He became increasingly angry that that he wasn't at that wedding,
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: that he wasn't around the royals. And so, yes, he
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: called her awful names. He did it in the press too.
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: We just saw him with Piers Morgan saying mean things
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: about Harry, saying he hung up on Harry. I think
• 16:02
  Speaker 7: the word he used was snooty. And so, yes, he
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: said some awful things about his daughter and also his son.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: You know what, Dr. Bethany Marshall? And yes, I'm getting
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: into the facts. I've got a veteran trial lawyer, co-host
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: of Legal Chaos podcast, Nick Ganaris. I have Dr. Jim Jones,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: who's a cybersecurity and digital expert. Lynn Shaw from Lynn's Warriors.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: We're getting into the evidence, which is overwhelming, we've been told.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: But Dr. Bethany Marshall, I mean, Dr. Bethany, Hulu, Peacock, Bravo, uh,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: hit podcast, the Dr. Bethany Marshall podcast. It goes on
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and on and on.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Dr.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Bethany, it just makes me feel bad for her, for
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: all of these children, of course, because I compare the
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: gold standard for me is my dad, right? The gold,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: he would never have said a bad word. This, no, it's,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: This has got to be tearing her and her whole
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: family apart. And you can't blame her brother, Thomas Markle Jr.,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: who has defended Markle all this time and attacked Megan.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: And now we find out this. He's the one that
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: discovered it, which Nick Ganaris is not going to like this,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: which adds a layer of credibility to the discovery of
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the child images. I'll call them that. It's certainly airbrushing
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: the truth. But his own son found it, the son
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that has been defending him for years against Meghan Markle,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: his daughter. He's the one that turned him in to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: the authorities after finding thousands of, I've got to tell you,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: they're disgusting. Even after I have prosecuted so many child
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: abuse cases, images like this, they are vile, vile, Dr. Bethany. Mm-hmm.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: So vile, Nancy, that I can't imagine the trauma of
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: having viewed them and also all the other men who
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: are passing these images along. This is a story that's
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: going to become bigger and bigger. But I'd like to
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: give a quick clue into what Meghan Markle might have
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: experienced from her dad if the allegations are true. What
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: we see in these kinds of families is that if
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: the father likes prepubescent children, is sexually attracted to them,
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: He might sexually abuse children outside the family, but within
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: his own family with girls become what we call an
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: interpersonal offender, meaning he might never have sex with his
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: own daughter. Again, I've never treated Thomas Markle. This is
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: just based on speculation, my opinion personally. What the father
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: becomes and he could have with Meghan Markle is what
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: we call an interpersonal offender, never touching her, but leering
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: at her, exploiting her for his own emotional needs, commenting
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: on the size of her busts, asking if she's had
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: sex with a boy yet, you know, these kinds of
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: inappropriate comments that leave a child, a young woman, very confused.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Bethany, I'm reeling because those words would never have come
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: out of my dad's mouth. See, it's hard for people
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: that came from a happy home to relate to anything
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: you're saying right now, but yet I've investigated and prosecuted
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: so many child abuse cases. I know that it's true.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: So now she's looking back and piecing together. Yes. Things
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: that may have been said to her in her childhood. Okay,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: go ahead. I'm sorry. Just the image of my own dad,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: anything like that coming out of his mouth. That would,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: never have happened.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: You know, Nancy, I have to say I've met your
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: father at your first book launch, and he was the
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: loveliest person there just to support you. And your mother
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: was there. I cannot imagine either of your parents ever
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: acting like Thomas Markle Sr., but Yes, she's piecing it together.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: And you can see the interpersonal offending and exploiting in
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: how he talks about his daughter currently. He mentions psychological problems,
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: cheapening the family, ghosting me. He totally denigrates her and
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: throws her under the bus. At the same time, he
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: exploits her by trying to monetize the relationship, trying to
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: get money from staging these fake photographs. So imagine we
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: have a little window into what she's experiencing with him now.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: Imagine what she experienced as a little girl. And hopefully
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: it gives us empathy for, you know, the.
• 20:50
  Speaker 11: Royals are like a giant Rorschach, right?
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: We can all project into them our own history, our
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: own hopes, desires, dreams, criticisms. We ourselves can denigrate them
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: or because it's easier to put ourselves, you know, pump
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: ourselves up by thinking critical thoughts. And so hopefully this
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: gives empathy towards a woman who has struggled to protect
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: her own children, which is admirable, even in the face
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: of criticism for having cut off her father, Nancy. And
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: I just, again, I can't, I cannot emphasize enough the
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: perverse nature of the childhood Meghan Markle was exposed to
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: if the allegations are true.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And again, that does not mean she was abused.
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: That's why we call it interpersonal offending. It's not sex offending.
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: It is simply exploiting the child for one's own gratification.
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: And Nancy, I have victims in my practice all the
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: time as adults who say, well, he never touched me,
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: but he made me sit on his lap and I
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: felt kind of weird. It's those kinds of exchanges that
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: throw the child into chaos and shame and and just
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: confusion about what the nature of the relationship is.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: To Nick Ganaris joining us, veteran trial lawyer joining us
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: out of Dayton with the Ganaris Abood Law Firm, star
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: of Legal Chaos Podcast. What are you going to do
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: about this? I've got a stack of paper of items
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: seized from his home. And again, when your own son,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: who has defended you for years, is the one turning
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: you into the cops, that lends a certain air of credibility,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the indicia of reliability to all of this. Computer, keyboard, letters, notebooks, papers,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: family photos, la, la, la, la, la. Okay, here we go.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: 31 negatives of Markle Sr. with a little girl DVDs.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: SD cards, hard drives, computer tower. Oh, good gravy. Five
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: strips of negatives. And hey, guess what, Gennaris? Let me
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: see Gennaris, please. Gennaris. I bet they're awesome photos because,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: you know, Markle Sr. was a lighting and photographic expert
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: for broadcast. The guy develops, you know, those people that
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: develop their own pictures? That's him. Treasure Trove. Thousands, thousands
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: of thumbnails, old film. Oh, my goodness.
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: Dr.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Jim Jones is going to have a field day explaining
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: how you turn all of this into evidence to bring
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: it to trial. 49 VHS cassettes, H1-8 tapes. What is that?
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: CDs and plastic bags. Nine mobile phones. One containing child
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: abuse images. Gee, and you wonder, why do people want burners?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: It goes on 11 books, including child abuse images. There's
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: just so much. It would take the whole show for
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: me to go through everything that's found in his old boxes.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Go ahead. Hit me. I can't wait to hear this.
• 24:13
  Speaker 13: Nancy, first of all, he's got to stop talking. Markle's
• 24:17
  Speaker 13: got to stop giving interviews. But, you know, you mentioned
• 24:21
  Speaker 13: it earlier. This was he's denied all these allegations. He's
• 24:26
  Speaker 13: denied possessing them. He's denied having any control over them.
• 24:32
  Speaker 13: You know, he indicates that he left Mexico in December
• 24:37
  Speaker 13: of 25. Along with his son, they went to the Philippines.
• 24:42
  Speaker 13: So you mentioned, well, you know, his sons, he's this
• 24:45
  Speaker 13: credible guy. But if you do listen to Markle and
• 24:49
  Speaker 13: have him denying those things, Markle's saying, I never had them.
• 24:53
  Speaker 13: Now we're talking about 22 months later, and we know
• 24:57
  Speaker 13: that Markle left in, what, May of 26? So now
• 25:01
  Speaker 13: we've got month after month after month, and the two
• 25:04
  Speaker 13: of them were living in the Philippines together.
• 25:07
  Speaker 8: So now, conveniently, it's all there.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I know this is going somewhere. But where?
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: Where?
• 25:15
  Speaker 13: Well, he said, He's denied it, right? He's denied that
• 25:17
  Speaker 13: he had it. He denied that he possessed it. And
• 25:20
  Speaker 13: that's going to be an evidentiary issue. What's been going
• 25:23
  Speaker 13: on the last 22 months? Who's had access to it?
• 25:26
  Speaker 13: You know, they're going to be doing forensics on all
• 25:28
  Speaker 13: of the computers. And I think that's going to be really,
• 25:31
  Speaker 13: really important how this case goes one way or the other.
• 25:34
  Speaker 13: If you believe him, his allegation that the allegations are untrue,
• 25:39
  Speaker 13: then what you're going to find is you're going to
• 25:40
  Speaker 13: find that metadata that's.
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: Going to support it. or not. That's to be determined though,
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: isn't it?
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Okay. So let's follow your theory, Nick Ganaris, through to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: its logical conclusion, because look around you. You're not talking
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: to a bunch of 1Ls, okay? I don't even know
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: how many cases I've tried at this point, much less
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: everybody on this panel, all experts. So let's follow it through.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: So you're saying- It's planted.
• 26:14
  Speaker 7: This is a setup.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: He's been framed. By who? And so it must be
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: one heck of a planter, a framer, because these photos
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: go way back when Markle Sr. was a young man
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: with Asian girls. Okay, so somebody really went to a
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: great deal of trouble to frame him. In 35mm pictures
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: and films, Really? Including multiple documents containing handwritten references to
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: passwords for dark websites and directions to get to pornographic websites. So,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I assume, with all of your experience, you have tried
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: handwriting comparison cases. I have. Have you?
• 27:06
  Speaker 8: Absolutely, Nancy.
• 27:07
  Speaker 7: And you know what?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: You're right. So somebody had to plant his handwriting with
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: his handwritten references and passwords to get on dark websites?
• 27:19
  Speaker 13: So, Nancy, let's talk for a moment because I'm interested in,
• 27:23
  Speaker 13: can he be convicted? So the first question is, where
• 27:26
  Speaker 13: is he going to be charged? He's going to be
• 27:27
  Speaker 13: charged in the Philippines. If he's going to be charged
• 27:30
  Speaker 13: in the Philippines, what's possession, Nancy? Is it, you know,
• 27:33
  Speaker 13: dominion and control? Can they prove that? So I'm not
• 27:37
  Speaker 13: here to argue the morality of it. You've got me
• 27:42
  Speaker 13: on here as a defense attorney. You're the prosecutor. Prove
• 27:46
  Speaker 13: that he had possession of it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: Where?
• 27:48
  Speaker 8: In the Philippines?
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: How?
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: Where are we going to?
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Excuse me.
• 27:51
  Speaker 8: Wait, wait.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Possession does not mean I've got my phone in my hand.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Possession means you have dominion and control.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: My car keys can be. left at home, far away
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: from this studio, but they're still mine. So good luck
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: with that. You're going to have to argue that all
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: of this was framed and planted while he did not
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: have actual versus constructive possession. So I won't let you
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: ruminate on that, but I see where you're going, Nick Garnieris,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: and you're right because it's the only place you can
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: go You're basically a trapped rat. You're a rat at
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the bottom of a barrel. And I've got the barrel.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: You're trapped. And you're desperately trying to climb up the
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: side to protect your client. But there's really nowhere to go.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: But that's exactly what is going to be argued. Rob Shooter.
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: It feels to me as if this is impossible for
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: him to get around. He's going to argue. He's already
• 28:55
  Speaker 7: arguing that this was not him, that these were planted.
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: His daughter, Samantha... who is Meghan's half-sister, is defending her father,
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: saying that her brother had beef with the father. So
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: potentially the brother might have planted this. There is no
• 29:10
  Speaker 7: way of him getting around this.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Joining me now, in addition to Cybersecurity Forensics Program Director
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: and Professor at George Mason University, Dr. Jim Jones. First
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: to you, Lynn Shaw, Founder and Executive Director, Lynn's Warriors.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: She's the host of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube. I wanted
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: you and Jim Jones to have the full effect of
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: what we know tonight. It's called in court, laying a foundation.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And sometimes, Lynn Shaw, I would go days putting up
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: evidence to lay a foundation for an expert to come
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: in and explain. That's why you, Bethany, and Dr. Jim
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Jones are here. Now, we're talking about what did Meghan
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Markle know and when did she know it and why
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: did she cut him off and what her childhood may
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: have been like. Now, she's got two beautiful children of
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: her own. But this scenario, his wife states that in writing,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: he moved to Philippines first. where, quote, 12-year-olds are legal.
• 30:33
  Speaker 11: Nancy, listen up and listen good, everybody. Where there's smoke,
• 30:36
  Speaker 11: there's usually fire. This Meghan Markle monster father, Thomas Markle,
• 30:40
  Speaker 11: alleged monster, we'll call him. Look, what we're forgetting about
• 30:44
  Speaker 11: in all of this conversation, we all know about, you know,
• 30:47
  Speaker 11: Meghan Markle. We all know now about Thomas Markle. We
• 30:49
  Speaker 11: know about Prince Harry, Queen Elizabeth. You know what we're
• 30:52
  Speaker 11: not talking about? The victims here in these pictures, videos, thumbnails,
• 30:58
  Speaker 11: hard drives, all of these images. Where did they come from? Okay,
• 31:02
  Speaker 11: who's addressing this? Did he create these images? Did he
• 31:05
  Speaker 11: just accept them? Somebody sent them to him? Where are
• 31:09
  Speaker 11: the children in these images? That's what I want to know.
• 31:13
  Speaker 11: This is another story we're covering where there's power over
• 31:17
  Speaker 11: vulnerable people, children. We're talking children here. it's called child
• 31:22
  Speaker 11: sexual abuse material. It's not called child pornography anymore. It
• 31:25
  Speaker 11: is the memorialization of, I'm so upset I can't even talk,
• 31:29
  Speaker 11: of children. So I want to know where the children are.
• 31:33
  Speaker 11: Did they get help? Why, if we're talking about now 2018, 2019,
• 31:36
  Speaker 11: why wasn't this brought forth to the FBI? Where was Megan's,
• 31:41
  Speaker 11: you know, alleged, you know, responsibility to report this? What
• 31:44
  Speaker 11: is going on here? Again, we're talking about children. So
• 31:49
  Speaker 11: what I want to know from everybody, we can discuss
• 31:51
  Speaker 11: Megan knew it.
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: She didn't know it.
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: The father was planted. It wasn't planted. All the legal stuff.
• 31:57
  Speaker 11: I don't care about the morality everybody's mentioning. These are children.
• 32:01
  Speaker 11: When are we going to get down to brass tacks?
• 32:03
  Speaker 11: You know what? Even if the father... This was planted,
• 32:06
  Speaker 11: which I find hard to believe, and so does everybody
• 32:07
  Speaker 11: else pretty much. These are still children in these images
• 32:10
  Speaker 11: and videos. Where were these kids? Were they ever given help?
• 32:13
  Speaker 11: Why didn't the UK report this to the US? I
• 32:18
  Speaker 11: find this disgusting, horrific, and I want to focus on
• 32:21
  Speaker 11: the children and their exploitation and who's helping them.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Thomas Markle Sr. has denied all of these allegations. I
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: want you to listen to Megan's sister speaking, just trashing
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Meghan Markle.
• 32:36
  Speaker 9: What could the motive be for keeping both sides of
• 32:38
  Speaker 9: the family away?
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 32:40
  Speaker 9: The stories would come out. So you didn't get grants
• 32:44
  Speaker 9: and scholarships. You never worked for the embassy. What do
• 32:47
  Speaker 9: you mean you only did a five-week study program? So
• 32:51
  Speaker 9: our Uncle Mike, who worked for the embassy, as a
• 32:54
  Speaker 9: favor to Dad, Dad paid for a five-week study program.
• 32:57
  Speaker 9: Uncle Mike threw in a letter of recommendation to be kind.
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: even though he'd only met Megan when she was a baby.
• 33:04
  Speaker 9: And so, well, a five-week study program is not, that
• 33:07
  Speaker 9: doesn't equate with working at the embassy.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: That's from our friends at Fox News. That's part of
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Megan's sister coming out, trashing Megan, starting off with, what
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: could be the motive for beekeeping both sides of the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: family away? I wonder what she has to say tonight. Actually,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I know what she's saying. She's saying, Her father, Markle Sr.,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: is being framed. To Dr. Jim Jones joining us, and
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: I want to hear from him and Gennaris on this. Jones,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: cybersecurity digital forensics expert, digital forensics program director, professor, George
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Mason University.
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: Dr.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Jones, thank you for being with us. Now, based on
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: everything you've heard, you'll hear Gennaris state that Possibly a
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: statute of limitations has run because in many jurisdictions, child
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: abuse cases have X number of years in which you
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: can prosecute them. Some enlightened jurisdictions have extended that, but
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: not all of them. We've got children in the Philippines
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: that are now 10 years older, 9 years older. They
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: may never be found. The case is digital forensics. How
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: do we prove they're not AI, that they're not altered?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: We just went through this with that idiot Prince Andrew's
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: hand around a teen girl's waist. We just went through
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: this with the royals. And now, oh, there it is. Oh, please. Yes,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: that's his hand.
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: Dr.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Jones, how can we prove this case with evidence this old?
• 34:52
  Speaker 12: Right, Nancy. So we're going to look at the metadata
• 34:55
  Speaker 12: of the digital files that was mentioned before. So the
• 34:58
  Speaker 12: metadata is part of the files themselves. So the pictures
• 35:02
  Speaker 12: carry with them date timestamps, device timestamps, what camera was used,
• 35:07
  Speaker 12: and so on. We're going to look at that. If
• 35:09
  Speaker 12: we have whole devices, there's additional data on that device
• 35:13
  Speaker 12: about the files, the pictures and videos on that device.
• 35:17
  Speaker 12: So we examine that. And then we look at the
• 35:19
  Speaker 12: other technical information around if the ISP has data, if
• 35:23
  Speaker 12: a website has information, if another device in the house
• 35:27
  Speaker 12: has information. We put all that together to be able
• 35:30
  Speaker 12: to validate the dates, for example, if that's what we're
• 35:34
  Speaker 12: first trying to prove. As far as proving the images
• 35:38
  Speaker 12: have not been altered, the best that we can say
• 35:42
  Speaker 12: scientifically is probably yes, probably no. We would not go
• 35:48
  Speaker 12: to court and say, I am 100% sure this file
• 35:51
  Speaker 12: is modified or this file has not been modified. That said,
• 35:56
  Speaker 12: with thousands of files, it is incredibly hard to craft
• 36:01
  Speaker 12: thousands of images and tie all of the correlating evidence
• 36:05
  Speaker 12: together and get everything just right. The world, the real world.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Is a mess.
• 36:12
  Speaker 12: Incomplete, imperfect place, and those things get picked up in pictures.
• 36:17
  Speaker 12: If you modify or create a picture with a computer,
• 36:20
  Speaker 12: those pictures out of the box are perfect, and that's
• 36:23
  Speaker 12: not the real world. And so algorithms will try to
• 36:27
  Speaker 12: make a perfect image imperfect so it looks like the
• 36:29
  Speaker 12: real world, but that's an incredibly hard thing to pull off.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Another issue to Dr. Jim Jones joining us, forensics expert,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: digital forensics program director, The entire body of the evidence,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: to me, is something that must be taken into account.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: It's not just one or two pictures. It's reportedly thousands
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: of pictures. And I've got to go back to Bethany
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: about why child abusers want to keep thousands and thousands
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: of similar images. But I've seen it over and over
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and over. Anecdotally, I know that it's true, but I
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: don't know why they do that. But this huge body
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: of evidence, Dr. Jim Jones, You've got books, DVD players,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: hard drives, negatives, slides, driver's licenses, just SD cards, just
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: so much. It's a huge and varied body of evidence
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: that I believe would be very difficult to create, to
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: frame someone.
• 37:37
  Speaker 12: Technically possible. In practice, incredibly hard, especially when you add
• 37:43
  Speaker 12: physical prints that might have photo lab timestamps and dates
• 37:48
  Speaker 12: on the back of them. Getting all of that to
• 37:50
  Speaker 12: tie correctly would be incredibly hard. And on the defense side,
• 37:55
  Speaker 12: you're going to try to find one or two images
• 37:59
  Speaker 12: that you can prove were altered. And you're going to
• 38:01
  Speaker 12: try to leverage that into the rest of the evidence.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: And so let me understand this. I'm going to have
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: to have a shrink. Somebody throws in some Mexican coins.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Somebody throws in an old checkbook. Somebody throws in framed photos.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Photos of ex-wife Doria. A contact book. A baby photo.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: A lot of other innocent mementos thrown in. I mean,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: it's beyond reason to me that that would be part
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: of some frame-up job. It's just... No.
• 38:38
  Speaker 7: Because.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: If you.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Look in my boxes and boxes of photos, I've got
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: church bulletins. I've got where the twins played the saxophone
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: or the French horn in middle school. Just all sorts
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: of things stuck in. Jim Jones?
• 38:54
  Speaker 12: It does, Nancy. And on the technical side, we're going
• 38:57
  Speaker 12: to look at all of the digital files and devices
• 39:00
  Speaker 12: that we have access to and tie all of the
• 39:03
  Speaker 12: connecting threads together. And that's on the prosecution side. We're
• 39:06
  Speaker 12: going to say, look, I've got a file. It's on
• 39:08
  Speaker 12: this device. The timestamp matches the file system on the device.
• 39:12
  Speaker 12: It matches some Internet access records, matches maybe a hard
• 39:15
  Speaker 12: copy printout that was made around the same time. And
• 39:19
  Speaker 12: we're going to tie as much of that together, and
• 39:21
  Speaker 12: that's going to be the strength of the prosecution case.
• 39:24
  Speaker 12: But on the prosecution side, you don't have to prove
• 39:26
  Speaker 12: that none of the images were altered. You just have
• 39:28
  Speaker 12: to prove or suggest that no. many of them were not.
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: Saying that, you know, she doesn't have a family and
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: she doesn't have a father.
• 39:34
  Speaker 11: And then Harry saying that, you know, she has no
• 39:38
  Speaker 11: father now.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: That's just ridiculous. That is Markle Jr., the one that
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: allegedly found this stash of horrific and vile evidence against
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: his own father. And that is him on Talk TV
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: talking to our friend Piers Morgan on Uncensored. So, Dr.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, help me out here.
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: Well, you were talking about why do offenders collect so
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: much material. And there are several factors. One is that
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: they use the material to maintain their deviant arousal patterns.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: So they are constantly collecting images, videos, often sometimes including
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: themselves in the videos themselves. Secondly, they are a part
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: of online communities where they distribute these images, and they
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: have to be in these communities, Nancy, in order to
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: maintain their cognitive distortions. In other words, if I like
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: to beat my wife, I'm going to find five other
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: people who like to beat their wives, and we're going
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: to all chuck it up together about why this is
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: a good idea. And then the other, Nancy, with deviant
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: arousal patterns, as with any pornography, the person becomes novelty seeking.
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: They escalate in wanting more and more extreme material to
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: arouse their sexual fantasies. And then, Nancy, just the collecting
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: of these images, it becomes a ritual. They spend hours
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: online looking for images, sending them like baseball cards instead
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: of real life children and infants. And yes, Nancy, infants
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: are so often involved in this kind of material. And
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: then we got the monetary reward if he is receiving,
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: and the allegations are true, he's receiving money for this
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: or he's buying and selling. It could be like baseball
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: cards where there's this collection network where then you have
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: this kind of stock that you can trade in with
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: other deviant offenders.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Thomas Markle Sr. has denied all of these allegations, claiming
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: things like, I've never been in a photo like that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Or I've never had sex with anyone under 18. Yes,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I've paid prostitutes, but I like Asian women. What's wrong
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: with that? That's not a crime. He denies any and
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: all wrongdoing. And in our world, he is innocent until
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: proven guilty. Nick Ganaris, what's your strategy?
• 42:06
  Speaker 13: So Nancy, I think the strategy is this. Let's assume,
• 42:10
  Speaker 13: and you've heard from the expert as far as the
• 42:13
  Speaker 13: digital evidence. And one of the things that they're going
• 42:15
  Speaker 13: to do if they're going to use the United States
• 42:18
  Speaker 13: perhaps to help investigate it, they're going to run any
• 42:21
  Speaker 13: of those photos through the NCMEC system, see if they
• 42:25
  Speaker 13: can verify some of the series of photos if they're
• 42:27
  Speaker 13: on there. But let's assume for a moment that all
• 42:31
  Speaker 13: of those things are accurate. The question from a legal standpoint,
• 42:35
  Speaker 13: and I think you'd agree with me, is where is
• 42:38
  Speaker 13: he going to be charged? We know that he indicates
• 42:42
  Speaker 13: that he did not have possession. He indicates that he
• 42:47
  Speaker 13: asked his son for control of some of these things
• 42:50
  Speaker 13: and says he never got them. So if it's a
• 42:54
  Speaker 13: charge of possession, where is he going to be charged?
• 42:57
  Speaker 13: In the Philippines, they're going to have to put that
• 43:00
  Speaker 13: with him.
• 43:00
  Speaker 8: So it's one.
• 43:01
  Speaker 13: Part just to suggest that that we've got what we
• 43:05
  Speaker 13: believe we have.
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: We have CSAM here.
• 43:09
  Speaker 13: And we can prove that this is what it is.
• 43:12
  Speaker 13: But from a legal standpoint is how do we get
• 43:15
  Speaker 13: him in dominion and control over it when we know
• 43:20
  Speaker 13: they're both living there, we know they have storage units,
• 43:23
  Speaker 13: we know according to Markle Sr. he didn't have access
• 43:27
  Speaker 13: to it. So is he going to be charged there?
• 43:29
  Speaker 13: The other thing that I would bring to your attention
• 43:31
  Speaker 13: is We also have this letter that was sent to.
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: The Met back in, what, 2019?
• 43:38
  Speaker 13: Are we not to believe also that his ex-wife didn't
• 43:42
  Speaker 13: send one maybe to the FBI or it wasn't shared
• 43:45
  Speaker 13: with the FBI? That's also going to go to when
• 43:48
  Speaker 13: you talk about statute of limitations.
• 43:51
  Speaker 8: Did the U.S.
• 43:52
  Speaker 13: Know?
• 43:52
  Speaker 8: What did the U.S.
• 43:53
  Speaker 10: Do?
• 43:54
  Speaker 8: Did they ignore it? You're right.
• 43:56
  Speaker 13: It can be extended. That statute can be extended. But
• 43:59
  Speaker 13: what did they do? Did they sit on it? Clearly,
• 44:02
  Speaker 13: they haven't done anything. So I think from a legal standpoint,
• 44:06
  Speaker 13: my question would be, where are they going to charge him?
• 44:09
  Speaker 13: Can they prove in the Philippines that he had dominion
• 44:12
  Speaker 13: and control over it?
• 44:13
  Speaker 8: Is it in Mexico?
• 44:15
  Speaker 13: Is it in the U.S.? I think from that perspective,
• 44:18
  Speaker 13: there's some legal issues here that may fall on his side.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Of course, there are extradition treaties between the U.S. and
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: the Philippines and the U.S. and Mexico. But you're right.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: We'll see how that plays out. Lynn Shaw, it's got
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: to be daunting. You see this every day. And once
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: you've seen images like these reported images, they never get
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: out of your head.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 11: Nancy, the most horrible thing for us at the Warriors
• 44:48
  Speaker 11: when we learned that the most desirable age is is,
• 44:52
  Speaker 11: sit down everybody, if you're not sitting down, is zero
• 44:54
  Speaker 11: to two years old. That is, and I stopped at
• 44:58
  Speaker 11: my tracks and said, zero? What exactly is that? And
• 45:01
  Speaker 11: we're a family show here, but everybody can tie it
• 45:04
  Speaker 11: all together. This is disgusting. I don't want to hear
• 45:07
  Speaker 11: about the years that we're going to have to go
• 45:08
  Speaker 11: through the metadata and where's the jurisdiction and all that.
• 45:12
  Speaker 11: I'm not a lawyer. All I know is these are
• 45:15
  Speaker 11: thousands and thousands of images of children young girls? Do
• 45:19
  Speaker 11: we know if there are young boys involved?
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I think Dr.
• 45:21
  Speaker 11: Bethany is absolutely right. We see this over and over again,
• 45:24
  Speaker 11: thousands and thousands of books and images and thumb dry,
• 45:28
  Speaker 11: all this stuff, because they're part of that community, okay?
• 45:31
  Speaker 11: And they do spend their lives just doing this day
• 45:34
  Speaker 11: in and day out. But again, my concern goes back to,
• 45:37
  Speaker 11: I'm going to go back to, you know, when Megan
• 45:39
  Speaker 11: married Harry, I'm sure MI5, MI6, they all get involved
• 45:44
  Speaker 11: in doing some research, background of family members, and nobody
• 45:48
  Speaker 11: From that time, 2018 brought this forward and did the FBI,
• 45:52
  Speaker 11: maybe they were contacted, sit on it. I find it
• 45:54
  Speaker 11: hard to believe.
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 45:56
  Speaker 11: So again, we at the Warriors, we were concerned about
• 45:59
  Speaker 11: children as a whole. Where are these children now? Where
• 46:02
  Speaker 11: were they ever given services? What is going on? Again,
• 46:05
  Speaker 11: it's a story of power. Okay. Obviously, I think probably
• 46:09
  Speaker 11: the queen would know about all this power over vulnerable children.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything regarding this case,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: please dial toll-free 800-225-5324. We remember American hero Deputy Sheriff
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Blaine Lane, Polk County Sheriff's Florida, just 21, shot and
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his little girl, Kate.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: American hero Deputy Sheriff Blaine Lane. Thank you to our guests,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: And until then, good night, friend.