Latest / OCCULTINARIUM / Occultinarium - EP 22 - 4 of Cups
Transcript
- Lynn: Hello and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium and your hosts tonight are Luigi: Luigi Amelie: family. Lynn: And then tonight we shall continue our explorations into the tarot cards. And we just reached the third decan of Cancer. so we shall look into the Four of Cups. I got the fourth version right there, and then we got The Smith version is right here. Amelie: We also decided to keep going with the Hermetic one and the Golden Luigi: wow. Amelie: Dawn one. Lynn: Yes, that's right. Because why not? Amelie: Yeah. Why Luigi: they're Amelie: not? Luigi: so beautiful. Lynn: A very stark contrast though, like the hermetic is just so black and white and it's kind of I feel it's like kinda gritty with its design. And then the Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: the golden drawn is more like, you know, colorful and quite vibrant and very like peaceful and I mean this one anyway, I've not seen the the the darker themed ones yet because Amelie keeps them secret. But Luigi: Yeah Lynn: It's but it's it's just such a big contrast to like this really gritty you know, design and black and white ink as well, to then like woo, colours and and and happiness. Luigi: one there I'm really go on go on Amelie: I do find that the artwork in the Golden Dawn one is quite simple. There's not Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: too many details, so I guess it's quite easy to see what it is. It's very straightforward. Luigi: Mm. Amelie: like just straightforward. Luigi: when you hold it, it really sends me a feeling of serenity when I look at it at least. I feel like, welcome, sit down, let us take care of you. Grab a chair. Lynn: Do you mean the f the Four of Cups in particular or are all the cards we've seen so far? Luigi: No no no no, just these particular photocaps that Amelie is Lynn: Right. Luigi: holding, the one from the Golden Dawn deck. Because when I look at- Amelie: When I'm looking at it, it really Lynn: Right. Amelie: reminds me of a stage, you know, the water Luigi: Yes! Amelie: looks like curtains. Lynn: Yeah, it does look like a curtain and in the middle you have like the hand Luigi: It's show time! Lynn: holding a I guess it's a lotus again from what I can see. Yeah the background Luigi: Mm-hmm. Amelie: Yeah it is. Yeah yeah. Lynn: is very vibrant blues and the dripping cups. one of the no, actually not actually that's right, because the cups are blue but then the the waters are white here and in comparison to the hermet because your waters flow really softly and gently and in the hermetics they're just gushing. It's just like overflowing. You got the Luigi: Splash. Lynn: the overflow is a bit more aggressive in the hermetic. And there we go, going with the two decks that are actually not regular ones. We discussed these first apparently. this is how we roll. Amelie: Why not? Lynn: We just like we just pick up stuff as we feel apparently. also cancer cancer cancer cancer everywhere like here's like the cancer sign. It just just really wanted to drive it home, I guess, that it's a cancer card and we have the moon on top. But maybe do you wanna go to the the I see normal cards, but do you wanna go to the reg none of them are normal or regular but to the thoughts and the smith deck of to start there because people are probably more Luigi: Yeah, yeah, now we can circle back. Amelie: I guess the Smith Deck is just the one Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: that people are most used to. Lynn: Yes, correctly. Correctly. Corre I would say so. It's been a weekend. yeah, so we're recording this session on the twentieth of July, twenty twenty six. So, you know, we are just at the cusp of well, we're still in the deck in here. So we're Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: doing it. We're uploading after, but you know, it doesn't matter. You can retrospect on what happened in your deck and listening to this episode. so yeah, on the Smith Deck for people who are not that familiar, we see a person, presumably a man, sitting under a tree on a little hill with three cups in front of him. He has his arms folded and he's sitting cross legs. He's staring at the three cups, while a fourth cup is presented to him by a godly hand coming out of a cloud. and he looks to be quite brooding or he doesn't look very happy right but there he is Amelie: He's too full. Lynn: chewful so the four of cups has a few names we have the lord of what is blended pleasures was it blended pleasure Luigi: blended pleasure by the golden Amelie: blended pleasure. Luigi: toe. Lynn: 'cause it's pleasure but is it fully pleasure pleasure? And in the fouth we're having we're calling it the Lord of Luxury. So this one's Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: a bit brighter in a little bit brighter in colours. The Amelie: The Lordship of Luxury. Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: Lordship of Luxury. although like just Amelie: you Lynn: looking at the colours, I mean the the yellows and oranges they're clearly very attractive. And it's a very light, nice blues, but you do have these grey skies on top. and from just the images, I mean not to go into death too soon, but we never managed that anyway. To pull you Luigi: Mm-hmm Lynn: right in there, what we see in comparison to let me just pull up the other ones that we had. So we've had the two of cups. The two of cups is where we come from as the first. From the the decades of the cancer, which was called love. You can check out the episode. the water is overflowing here and is flowing into the oceans. And in the three, which was just coming before, you also overflowing water, water is flowing back into the ocean. Now in the four we see that the waters are still overflowing into the cups, but suddenly they're not actually coming back into the ocean. So it's like the you're having full cups, which in itself can be like a good feeling to sit with, like you're feeling you know it's luxurious, you've got everything you need, you don't need more than that, but you stop giving back to the source. It's it's basically stagnant or there's a danger of it going stagnant in in the thoth imagery. Right? Well in the Smith emoji, yeah. Amelie: kind of like the pleasure is at the very end. Lynn: Yeah, yeah. And I th it's it's like a feeling where people often want to hold tight like hold tighter I guess because it's you know, it seems to feel nice, but then also it doesn't go anywhere. Like it won't get you to evolve further. Luigi: the next stage. Lynn: The next stage is locked. And I mean in the Smith that's what you said something about it, Amelie, earlier. But we're having the three cups and you said he doesn't want the fourth, right? He's got enough cups already. I think that's what you said. Hm. Amelie: Yeah, he's like, he's full. Lynn: Yeah, he's full. Amelie: He's holding it. He's like holding his stomach. He's like, ugh, I can't have it anymore. Lynn: Yeah Luigi: You Lynn: that could be that could be. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: It could also be that he's not noticing, right? This is another interpretation that he's so focused on the cups in front of him that he's not noticing. it could be either he doesn't want it because he already has enough or he doesn't know what to do with it or he's not seeing it. So there's different interpretations of that. How do you usually see that, Luigi? 'Cause you're working more with that. Luigi: I feel like with this one... It's not to say that I always see it like this, but just based on the formula that it's composed of, I think it's a very powerful card, because when you think about it, so you have still a card in the Deacon of Cancer, in the number 4, which hermetically is a number of water, so the element of cancer, 4 belonging to Jupiter, which is exalted in cancer, but the Deacon itself ruled by the moon, the natural ruler of cancer. So in a way this Lynn: Hm. Luigi: is a very powerful for cancer or So I guess I would say if you're a cancer and you receive a reading and you receive this card, it could be a good omen, but it really depends on the question, what's going on with Lynn: Hmm. Luigi: the cards around it and so forth. I think the depiction of it, both in the Smith and the Crowley version of the card, I think it focuses a lot on the shadow, which you talked about and pointed towards, which is stagnation, which is the shadow of the number four. So you when you were describing like the water falling or flowing into into the caps but no longer overflowing into the ocean, for example. That can be an aspect of the four because the four is so stable, it contains the water. And even though this is practical and perhaps that I say sustainable, maybe not sustainable, maybe that's the wrong word, but the shadow of it is, again, it hinders. further change, further transformation, further evolution and metamorphosis and whatnot. So I think what happens in the images a lot of the times, or at the very least with Toph and Smith, is that they tend to focus a lot on the shadow aspect of the card and the only reason why I can think that and this purely my humble perspective. It probably can be because it's a very divine feminine card and we know that the ceremonial magicians and the hermetic magicians, you know, there's always been a bit of the divine feminine being somewhat inferior, that I say. Please don't torch us or lynch us or at least don't torch and lynch me for saying this, but it is based on... observations, reflections, and whatever piece of material I manage to come across, there is a sense that the Divine Masculine, the Sacred Masculine is somewhat more exalted than the Divine Feminine, and you have a lot of Divine Feminine in the photocaps. So that can be one of the many reasons out there as to why they tend to focus more on the shadow versus the light of the card. Lynn: That's that's quite a that's quite a mick drop, Luigi. I'm glad you brought that up. That hadn't the boom that Luigi: Boom. Lynn: hadn't occurred to me that just because it's very feminine, that's why some people focus more on the negative side and that's what we're also often taught, right? Yeah, Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: that is thanks for that, a little bit. And please go on, yeah. Luigi: Because it's not the only, I mean, yeah, no, I was gonna simply add to summarize it. I'm not just trying to start a, what's this called, a conspiracy, although I do know that some of us here, Lynn: Please do. Luigi: love conspiracies. But I think when we think about it, and we'll talk about it in more detail when the other cards come around, but it's not the only card that gets a bit of a rap. And when you analyze the card, it turns out that it's a very heavily divine feminine influenced card, if that makes sense. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, totally. Although I feel like for at least for Thoth I mean, we know like with the Thoth that there's like this split with the sevens and eights where Crowley definitely Luigi: Mm. Lynn: had favors and less favoured cards. which is kind of a personal thing, right? but then again Luigi: Mm. Lynn: with the feminine, since you're saying that it's a little split because in in some way like what you're saying with the four of cups then maybe it's a bit negative because of that. But then again he's also has this sacred femininity in the lust card, for example. And his whole his whole well I I keep saying wanna say religion, but you know like his his faith. Luigi: in Thalima. Lynn: Yeah, in Thelema the the central stage is also feminine power, but it is a different Luigi: yeah. Lynn: it's not pa pa it's not a passive feminine power, right? And it's not passive. Luigi: That's it. That's the thing. Lynn: And and and Crowley I feel he's very much despising passivity in in many forms. Luigi: Hmm. Lynn: Well, I mean he's all about the will, right? And will and the fire is very active, it's Luigi: Action. Lynn: very it's action, it's very burning. And the and water is the exact or is kind is the opposite power, the balancing power, but the opposite power of the fire. So he Luigi: Mm. Lynn: favours fire also being born a fire a fire sign. in yeah, in trouble. Luigi: Rising, yeah. Rising in Leo, I think. Lynn: Yeah, in tropical anyway. So I'm not sure if the rising is still Leo and is sidereal. We could check that out. I don't actually know that. Luigi: Ha ha! Lynn: What is Crowley's sidereal chart look like? But probably still fire because he's got a lot of that going on, right? but yeah, so so yeah, that would make sense with him being in favor of the active act the active feminine power. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: and the entire ones family basically. but yeah, getting I can I can say a little bit about the the decanic things again 'cause that's we haven't done that yet. So with the the decanic rulers of this deck end, so again like removed from the tarot, going more into the the original decanic images and all that. the rulers are actually as we know it's in the the standing order is Jupiter. so we have Jupiter and Cancer. And the triplicity order is the moon. So we're having the planets or the astrological bodies that are strongest in Cancer are both the ruling planets of this Deccan. So Jupiter being exalted and Moon ruling it, but we both both of them rule it in in the two different systems. So Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: it is that is quite a big thing. And for the Well, for for the energy of the deck in itself, not necessarily what we're seeing in the in the cards, but it it is this idea of that, you know, from the two and from the three, you're establishing something again, right? Now you're establishing what you want or what you need or your emotions and in the in the one which is coming from in the three is like where you have it and where you're kind of having this protection, you're protecting what is yours and protecting your happiness and your joy and your abundance and now in the fourth you're at a point where you have so much that you almost have too much and it's it's time for you to share that. And s so as far as I've heard or or learned a lot of people who have their their significant planets here or natives in in this deck they're often artists and the idea here is also that to be able to fully delve I love I like that word to fully delve into the artistry or or you know being an artist and being like hey now I just want to create leave me alone that the prerequisite for that is that you actually have everything else together. You have to have a stability, you have to have a job, you have to have you know I mean some people I guess can be poor and make good art, right? or make art that is recognized, but it's not normally so often the case that you can feel, you know happy enough or or stable enough and good enough to be like, I don't Luigi: the reward. Lynn: care. Yeah, I don't care about what's going on around me. I don't care about getting bread and butter and water. I'll just make Luigi: Yeah Lynn: art, right? So it's a it's quite a luxurious thing to be able to do in in that sense, to to just completely focus on something, is something like that. And that is that is kind of the feel behind that the Dakian. That you can just you can be very creative, you have the luxury to do so and you're sharing that with others. Like this idea Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: of sharing it is is like a big idea. Luigi: Yeah, and thank you for that. I also was what popped into my mind. and I have to check the dates but because of the the Chaldean or Chaldean I'm not entirely sure of the pronunciation but the order of the decans we know that in the system it technically started so I think what I'm trying to say is I feel like the card foreshadows the next decan to come which would be the five of wands and in that period through the Egyptian calendar that was the period of the year that he will the the Nile will overflow Lynn: Right. yeah. Mm. Mm. Luigi: and then mark the beginning of that calendar. I think period, we'll have to fact check that and double check, Lynn: Mm. Luigi: but I think period wise it starts with a five of ones, but it's interesting that it's preceded by this abundantly watery card, if that makes sense, almost as if the, Lynn: Hm. Yes. Luigi: again, the foreshadow of what's to come, the nine being. Lynn: Yeah, I in I can support that with the the tiny pieces of things that I have collected in my mind but I've heard that as well. I think when we talked about the first decad of Cancer, it was mentioned that in some calendars this was actually where in Hellenistic traditions where the year started instead of the first decan of Arius. So we also have the tradition where the year starts here, but then you have also traditions where it starts with the first decan Leo and I think as as you mentioned if I remember correct that might have been like an Egyptian calendar where they start with that decad or like with that time period and with the yeah, it rings a bell when you say that with the overflowing of the Nile coinciding with the time and that starting the year makes a lot of sense and yeah, that that rings that rings true in my mind. I think I've I've heard of that before as well. Hmm. Luigi: Yeah, just something interesting, like how the cards can often reflect worldly events like that. It's quite beautiful. Lynn: Mm. Mm. I mean that's how the the entire techanic system is built on, right? It's thousands and thousands of years Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: of people looking in the sky and seeing, okay, we are having this constellation, this thing is going on right now, and this has happened this year, and then they write it down and then the next year they write it down and they write it down, write it down for like thousands of years and then they came to this idea to create some like they they saw correspondences, right? And we have very old, very, very old civilizations to thank for And now people are like, it's Luigi: Definitely. Lynn: all bullshit, you know, but mmm you know it's all based on observations. But call it bullshit Luigi: Absolutely. Lynn: if you want. I mean it's it's you know, I whatever you wanna believe. It makes you happy. Luigi: If that makes you happy, you do you, baby. Lynn: You do you. It's it's fine. Amelie: They had maybe a little bit too much luxury, so they had a lot of time to... Lynn: They definitely yeah, yeah. Luigi: Annoying enough blended pleasure. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: But I like this card, I know Lynn: What do you what mm? Luigi: some people tend to get like, no, like, most of the times these are people, I'm not trying to judge anyone, but a lot of the times that I got a bad reaction from an individual that has received the photo caps, most of the times they wouldn't know Taro in the way that perhaps like you and I guys know it. Because I particularly enjoy this card, whenever I see it I get a sense of relief a little bit, I get like, alright, chill the, chill the fuck down. you know stop complaining there's enough to go around please redirect your attention and focus to gratitude and whatnot so yeah I would say I'm fond of team full of caps Lynn: What about you, Amelie? Like what do you what what first pops into your mind and heart, when you see the cards? Amelie: I don't mind four of cups. But I also think like, Lynn: Hmm. I don't mind. Luigi: Ha Amelie: I guess it depends also like who or where you are. in your life maybe because Luigi: Mm. Amelie: I have a feeling Lynn: Mm. Amelie: that you know if you're a person that you know wants to do something and want to go places you might feel like it's a little bit too calm it almost feels maybe like I have too many choices almost so you don't really know where to go so you're just like well I'm just gonna sit here and wait for something to happen where Luigi: If the mountain will come, no way was it, if, if Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: Mohammed doesn't go to the mountain, the mountain will come to Mohammed, something like that. Lynn: Yeah. Or with Amelie: yeah. Yeah. Lynn: the Prophet, yeah, if the Prophet doesn't go to the mountain the mountain comes to the Prophet. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: If you don't wanna use names. Amelie: Yeah. Yeah. Luigi: We definitely, I definitely did not butcher that thing. Lynn: No, no. Amelie: I don't know, I like this card because I think like if you're in a place where you kind of appreciate or in a place where, you know, let's say I'm thinking of like, if you're in a place of like the three of pentacles, for example, where you've been working for the thing, like, and then you end up being in the four of cups. Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: then you have the appreciation because you know you worked hard for whatever you have here, whatever is overflowing. So you kind of sit there and appreciate it. But I think you have to have, you have to be, I don't know, either older or have the appreciation for this. Because Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: if it just comes to you, you will miss out on the moment. of just, you know, Lynn: Mm. Amelie: just enjoying the moment. Also, I guess you can Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: enjoy the moment because you know it might be over anytime. But I don't Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: see it as negative. But yeah, Lynn: Hm, hm. Amelie: it really depends. It depends like who Lynn: Guess it it's like when you Amelie: you're reading it for as well. If you read it in a reading, if someone actually Lynn: Yeah. Always. Amelie: wants action, then they would probably find it a little bit, you know. Lynn: Yeah, stagnation too stagnant and not not very i Amelie: Mmm. Lynn: I mean yeah, I mean it depends so much on your personality, right? Because if you're very comfortable in in in a silent quiet space, in or silent quiet emotional space, right? Which a cancer cancerian type person might be, then this is probably a really amazing card. Also like Jupiter and Moon, you know. Like all the energies are very good for somebody who's very Cancerian at heart. But then if you if you have somebody who's like a a Leo or something or some Sag a Sagittarius, I know somebody who's just really wants to go and waa and then and like you said, and then they have this one. They're like more like fuck, I feel sorry about X beep. they they feel like like they're they're stuck or they're gonna swamp and feel really uncomfortable Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: with that kind of situation. So it's so personality and like you said situation. dependent. I think I just had it recently in a reading and there it was representative or it was about like a relationship and It was about a person who's like very like, you know, kind of up in their mind and very like And it was more representative of their partner and how their partner stabilizes them and their emotions. Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: in otherwise they would just be like p so there it was like a very positive thing because it would like bring them down and kind of ground them or give them like a container, a safe container for their emotions. so you know, there it was Luigi: action. Lynn: yeah, pretty yeah, yeah, yeah. Luigi: another aspect of cancer. I was gonna say that, it might be very partial of me to say this, but I'm not saying that I know every single cancer person that exists on the planet, but I would say that I am surrounded by a fair amount of cancerians in my life. And I think another aspect that is depicted in the card is their ambition. When I say ambition is because again the Jupiter exultation will influence like I can have it all and more, more than all and that's Lynn: Mm. Luigi: something that appears to be a consistency in all of the people in my life that are under the sign of cancer, right? But because I had usually as a Capricorn and a Piscean I tend to be easily satisfied, you know, you don't have to go very hard to satisfy me but And so I get very surprised because I'm like, oh wow, this is amazing. And most of the times they come back and be like, what do mean amazing? I'm only just getting started. I am going to make Lynn: Ha ha ha. Luigi: it in ways that you can't even think of. And I get anxious. I go Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: like, really? More than this? Really? Do Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: need to? you have to? And I think that's an aspect of the Smith version of the photo caps, like that. No, enough. Lynn: But Yeah. That would be interesting yeah. It would be interesting to see if they're actually natives in this deccan because that we w would change things, you know. So that's interesting thing to look into. Like since I got into decans, actually looking at which decan people have worn, not just in which sign Luigi: Mm. Lynn: is is a a game changer. Hmm. Yeah. Luigi: One of them is actually the 4 of Cups Decan and another 4 of them are all like 3 of Cups. All of them. Lynn: Alright. Amelie: I was also thinking when you said about, I don't know what it was, but it was something about feelings and make me think Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: about, you know, when there are people, when you said, you know, people that don't really like when things are too quiet and Luigi: Mm. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: then there are the people that just find it very difficult with like just being by themselves. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: And because you have the cups, obviously that's the emotional side of it. And then you also have the moon, you Lynn: Mm. Amelie: see kind of the darker aspects of yourself. And this might make a lot of people feel uncomfortable because you Lynn: Mm. Amelie: kind of, you have everything around you at, you know, obviously you sit in luxury and you're there by yourself so there's no you know how people normally we like to create problems because we like to resolve them so there's always something Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: but when you have everything and you're by yourself you know you have to do something with with it and if you uncomfortable and if you don't really want to see like the maybe the slightly more uncomfortable aspects of yourself, then it might be a very uncomfortable card for that reason, Lynn: Mm. Amelie: you know, Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: getting to get to know yourself. Lynn: Yeah. Yeah, I mean the moon Yeah, I mean the moon is reflective, right? It's the nature. So you start to like you might reflect on yourself and then you have Jupiter being very expansive. So for people who do not like to be alone with themselves, like you said, do not like to reflect on things, it's probably very uncomfortable. Or in the same time, like if you I mean this is a really strong card, right? If you have if you have benefics in this deck it can be really good if you have malefics in this deck and then it might be just the opposite. 'cause like Luigi you said like they have so much and they just have more and more. So it seems like there Luigi: Mm. Lynn: might be more candidates to have like really good planets in a stick in. But if you have malefics in it, then it could be easily be the other way around that you always feel like you just cannot get enough. That it's never enough for you to be like happy or never enough to feel fulfilled. So that's like the other side of the the chemic energy here as well. Mm. Luigi: Totally. I also, Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: this is a bit controversial, but I also struggled, so obviously there can be aspects of the Queen of Cups in this card, but we know that based on the Canic rulership and tradition, this is technically no longer the Queen of Cups but the shadow of the Prince of Wands. Lynn: Yes. Luigi: And I say that to say, and we can talk about the Prince of Wands, but I say that to say purely because Lynn: Yes, yes. Luigi: when I see the four of Cups, I can't help but see the image of the Queen of Cups, you know what I mean? So, yeah. I mean it is what it is as they say, as the young kids say, but I like to see hints of the Queen of Caps in the Four of Caps and I don't think that's necessarily wrong but yeah like traditionally speaking Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Luigi: it would be the shadow of the Prince of Wands, of the King of Wands. Lynn: Yes, we can bring up here. So we have the the thought Prince of Wands here. And as we said earlier we're we're following we're following that thing with that the princes are ruling that and that the princes are the kings And not the Luigi: don't think we had an episode to explain that, but maybe in the future. Lynn: We still have to know we still have to make the episode dedicated to it, but we've mentioned it a few times and we can justify why we're doing Luigi: We're go- Lynn: it. But there's other ways of to doing it. But that's just how we're gonna roll. So the King of Wands, Prince of Wands, are here and that's their their shadow sign. So what what do you what do we think then? So we know I mean we know our princess and kings a little bit. So saying Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: that that they're a bit uncomfortable in this is I guess it's exactly what Amelie what you were saying. I suppose like the the I mean you have so much fire, you know and the kings they're both with this element of fire and air so they're the most active opposite of passive there we are the opposite of passive that word elements there are right so they they move they they do they get things done so this sitting still and reflecting is not in their nature at all Luigi: I also got Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: a particular... plot or narrative rather. But it doesn't have to apply to any single reading but it's a narrative that sometimes helps me at least understand more the principle of the shadow of the four of cups with the prince of wands. So if we include each decan or decan of the prince of wands we'll have the four of cups, the five of wands and the six of wands. What comes to mind with that narrative is the luxury I suppose following Crowley's titles or the abundance, well, abundance is for the three, but what I'm saying is there is so much, clearly, technically speaking, it's an emotional much. But let's entertain the thought that it might be not necessarily only emotional, let's treat it as proper wealth, know, of matter, of state, of status, if even. So the image that I'm getting is... the wealthy aspects in the four of cups, the luxurious aspects of the four of cups causing the strife and the war in the five of ones like, want to conquer that. No, that's mine. It shall be mine. I claim this land under the name of my king and queen. and so forth and so forth. Eventually leading to the victory on six of ones, very Camelot wise, very Arthurian, like Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: which dragon will conquer the land, dragon will sit on the throne of the kingdom of Camelot and whatnot. That's kind of the narrative that comes to mind. Lynn: I love that. Yeah. I with that narrative I immediat Amelie: you Lynn: like it's got inspired to a similar narrative but I was my in my mind I was focusing more on that it's like the cups and it might be feelings or whatnot. So in my mind it was that battle over a over a a lover. So a loved one. Luigi: I loved one. Lynn: So they were like very stale, luxurious and you know, feeling good and all was well and they had their woman or men, but you know, let's let's go with the classic images of Arthurian legends or whatnot. And everything was good and then bam like if you say Arthurian, you know, then we have this whole thing of like Winnipeg with being like Lancelot and Arthur, so it was maybe like, you know, no, but there's another and then the whole struggle and strife and fighting and Mama, she's mine, she's mine while she's just sitting there like, Well guys, can you just not make up and we all be friends? But you know then like Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: and then one of them maybe winning in the six. But yeah, yeah, I got the Romance aspect into that mix while you were talking. So that's why I started smiling at us and images in my head. Like Luigi: But he applies, he applies, that's the thing with the cap's realm, he can totally apply. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amelie: I'm also thinking about the the three of cups, you know, when everyone is having fun and you know, it's very social here, very social, Luigi: Mmm. Amelie: very like, but here he's like, God, I just need a timeout. Luigi: Party's over. Amelie: I need a timeout. I just need like, I love you guys, but I just it's just too much. Need a timeout. Maybe it's like in Luigi: Haha Lynn: the introvert, it's the introvert card. It's like when you've been partying and you just need to r that's that's me like this Saturday basically when I was like when I was just I love being in company. It was great Luigi: Maybe that's why I like it so much. Amelie: Yeah, yes, this is safe. Lynn: but I was exhausted and I was just like I need to lay down, have a nap. I can I need to Amelie: I most people love this card because it's so fun and party and all of that. And then this Luigi: Hmm. Amelie: is like, so boring. It's just, I think I prefer this. This is where your fun begins. Here you have to Luigi: Yeah, it's also... Amelie: be social. Lynn: It's the extrovert, extrovert card, and then the introvert cancer card. You know? The two is just very balanced, Amelie: Yeah, yeah, yeah it is. Luigi: And additionally... Lynn: yeah, but then the three is like, you woohoo it's the extroversion and then you get to the introversion. Yeah, yeah. Hmm. Luigi: Yeah, totally. And additionally, Amelie, because you're pointing out the progression between the three and the four, I guess in the three of caps we had the chance or the opportunity to create, because threes are very expansive and whatnot. In the four, it's probably the first materialization. of whatever we were aiming to create. I'm talking very metaphorically here and I guess in the Smith version, perhaps even in the Toff version, again because of that innate ambition inspired by exaltation of Jupiter, maybe you're like, but I wanted to create this and instead maybe you feel like you created that. You know, I'm not, for people that are not watching me and my hand gesture and just listening to this and that, they're like, what's he talking about? Lynn: Mm. Luigi: But basically like the material, the materialization of what you envision Lynn: Explain your hand gestures, Italian Luigi: did not meet the expectations that you had when you were in the stage of the three of cups. That perhaps they fell beneath the expectation that you had in the four of cups and therefore causing the aspect of. I either want or I need more or and I was expecting more. Amelie: So it's like, actually in theory it worked, but it kind of didn't when I... Luigi: Yeah, to be honest, without giving too much information out, and hopefully this is the RPG rating, you know, it kind of reminds me of many One-Night Stands that I had in my life, thinking that an Ampliocaps is gonna- You wake up in the four of cups Amelie: You Lynn: Alright, Do we wanna go into colours if we can a little bit on those? If we c Luigi: Yeah, we can. Lynn: if we can. if you can can. Luigi: Cause you can can can Well there's also blue, isn't it, the photo cups, which is Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: very much in conversation with the water element, the Briatic colors. you may have to help me, and by help me I mean help my color blindness, because I see orange. I don't know if that's what I see. Lynn: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Are we looking at the south currently? You're looking at the south, right? Luigi: Yeah, I was looking at the tough and be Lynn: Yes. Luigi: at the at the Golden Dome one but I saw a lot of oranges. Amelie: Yeah, it's orange. Yeah, it is orange. Lynn: Mm, mm. The cups are golden orange and then you have this very light blue background of the ocean or of the the waters, Bina. You have a slightly grey or slate grey sky. And then you have like a pink flower on top under the moon where the water is sprouting from, that is pink, and then the vines or what you wanna call them. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: there seem a bit like a more deeper reddish brown. Luigi: Could be maroon, possibly. Because Lynn: Maroon possibly. Luigi: basically, from what I can see at least the colors The Yet Siratik, which is the Kingdom of Air colors for cancer for the chariot, and this being a card of the chariot, would be rich bright russet, which if I look again, I'm very colorblind, but if I look at the screen, the caps that appear orange, when I look at the scale or the shade of rich bright russet, if I'm pronouncing it correctly, it seems to be matching, so that would explain that. The color blue obviously will explain the briyatic color of Hesed. The grey, we know the Hasid stands Underneath Chakma being grey in briatic colors. And then the vines you mentioned could be maroon, which is the let me double check. I think it's the Briatic color of Cancer. Yeah. The pink, that's a that's an interesting one. usually pink can relate to T-Fet in its Atsiluthian colours, but I'm trying to think Wha why the pink? Why the pink? Mm-hmm. Lynn: I mean it's very Amelie: I was about to say something but Lynn: feminine, right? Amelie: I don't wanna... Luigi: Go for it. Amelie: no... no, I don't know... It's like... It's giving birth. Because it's coming Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: from the three. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it and also like Amelie: So. Lynn: something coming from the three. You have the lover's path, which isn't connected to the four, but it's that's pink on my on my tree of life anyway. But better sight, yeah. Amelie: Yeah, and also knowing, knowing, knowing Alistair, you know, he was quite sexual, it doesn't surprise me. Lynn: Yeah. I mean it it definitely I mean if you look at it, I mean the the shape and everything, you can definitely see that it might be a very feminine shape. Yeah. Amelie: It's a lot of vagina. Lynn: It's yeah. It's a pretty pink vagina Luigi: Hehehehehe. Lynn: and I mean she's right under right under the moon as well. So there we have all of the and she's she's gushing. There we go. We're s we're not PG thirteen anymore. We never wear We never have been. This is an adult channel. Amelie: Are we not? We never have been. No, we just don't know the guidelines, that's all. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: Healthy, healthy education here. Yeah. Amelie: Because that kind of makes sense because the three was the incubation of it and this is the four, this is the next one, it's also past the abyss. So it makes sense to me. Lynn: Mm. Mmm. Mm. Absolutely. It also makes sense with the with the hermetic, right? Where I said it was very like active and gushing and just like frothing waters Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: versus your very calm one. So these are very different hm energies. Luigi: Yeah, it can also be somewhat related to the Empress, but I may have to look into Lynn: Hm. Yeah, she's Luigi: that. Lynn: very pink. Yeah, I know she's got a lot of pink and and The palette can everything. Luigi: Because the Empress, although it's Venus, there is a strong relationship with the Moon. And Lynn: Mm. Luigi: we knew that the Empress obviously ruled the second deacon. And again, the Empress purely representing the Divine Feminine, the son of Cancer is a representation as well of the Divine Feminine, the mother of the Zodiac, so they could be that as well, being the last deacon. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Luigi: But yeah, any final any final thoughts on the four of cups, the blended pleasure or luxury. Lynn: Well, one thing we haven't completely touched upon, which we should maybe touch upon, is actually the position of the tree of life. We just brush that. Luigi: yeah. Lynn: Right. So that might be the final the final the final thoughts. 'cause we yeah, you we talked about you talked about the four and you talked about chesed but Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: we've not actually really looked at it. But if you're looking again, here's our tree of life for example, Amelie: cool, you got it, I was trying to find it. Lynn: yes. So we came from from the the three Bina. we have we actually passed our supernals now. That's like the first car again that we passed the supernals and now we're in the four here ruled by Jupiter Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: as well. So the four is ruled by Jupiter and then we have the Deccan or Cancer or Jupiter's exalted. So we're having like a lot of Jupitarian energy Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: actually in this and this car. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, it's definitely a place of comfort for design that rules the card for certain. Lynn: Mm, mm. Luigi: And elementally speaking, it's really powerful in the realm of water. Lynn: Mm. And in this translation the said translates to love so that's yeah. Not as mercy but it's Luigi: Which is one of my favorite titles for Hazet. Lynn: like love. So that's it's pleasant. It can be it's yeah, Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: it can be very pleasant. Luigi: Yeah, and you can relate to the mantra of cancer, you know, to feel and so Lynn: Hm. Luigi: to feel love in the four of cups. Amelie: love. Lynn: Yes. Amelie: So overrated. Luigi: Ha ha ha But there's many different versions of love, isn't it? Amelie: The human aspect of love. Humans know nothing. Lynn: No. Luigi: Ha ha ha. Lynn: No, but we also talked about that in the the primal the primal love in the two of cups, which which might be yeah. Amelie: Exactly. Yes. Lynn: So go check that out if you wanna listen to us talking about love. All right. Well are you satisfied with the luxury of our for yeah. Luigi: I think it would be because you pointed out where it is in the tree. I think it would Lynn: Mm. Luigi: be interesting because I think this is the first four that we covered so far. Lynn: Yes. Luigi: So it will always be we touched upon it when we were discussing the difference between the three of cups and the four of cups. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: because of the jump through the abyss, I think it will always be intriguing if we keep in mind to have the conversation, like you know, how. how the changes from Bina materialized in hazard following the jump through the abyss or over the abyss or underneath the abyss, who knows? Lynn: Mm. Luigi: between yeah the freeze and the fours. So obviously we did this for as a first. Yeah that's an interesting one. Amelie: But you know what, I just like quickly. It makes me think about the hanged man as well. Because I know there's Luigi: Of course. Lynn: Hm. Amelie: lots of water obviously, but there's also that kind of luxury, I guess it's not luxury to be hanging upside down, but it's the kind of time out. Luigi: Mm. Amelie: you spend is like the stillness. don't Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: find necessary, I find maybe this looks a little bit like stagnation but like Lynn: Mm. Amelie: the stillness I feel like that's the stillness that you would have in the Four of Cups. Luigi: It's like a s a spiritual sanctuary. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: Yeah. And he chooses for him. He chooses it by it's hanging by choice. Amelie: Yeah, Luigi: Mm. Amelie: it's basically like that introvert, you know. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: A social. Amelie: you Lynn: Right. Yeah. Alright. Well, thanks for tuning in to our episode about this decan, the last decan of cancer. we will soon get into the decans of Leo with a quite different energy. so if you're Leo or interested in fire, check us out next time we record. the five Amelie: you Lynn: of wands is next. Gonna get hot. Huh? Luigi: Don't you want some hot stuff? Amelie: Maybe this evening Lynn: Yeah Luigi: Ha ha ha. Lynn: Well thank you guys for listening. like, subscribe, post a comment, I'm sure you have lots of thoughts. And see you. Amelie: Don't be shy. Lynn: Don't be shy. Or be but Amelie: Not in the comments, it's fine, don't be Lynn: Ha ha ha. Luigi: It's so cool. Amelie: shy. It's okay, Luigi: We won't burn. Lynn: We're all into Amelie: they can't post pictures I think. Lynn: We're all introverts, Luigi: Ha ha. Lynn: we're all introverts at heart, really, promise. Anyway see you in the next episode and blessed be and good night. Amelie: Good night. Luigi: Bye.