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Amanda Shires For Christmas · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey there, it's justin Richmond. Today we have a
0:22
Speaker 1: special Broken Record Holiday episode with Nashville singer songwriter Amanda Shires.
0:27
Speaker 1: We're gonna start things off with an exclusive acoustic performance
0:31
Speaker 1: of her new song home to Me, from the album
0:34
Speaker 1: for Christmas. You said there's a song the runway, I
0:40
Speaker 1: song the wings. I saved everywhere and nothing will bring
0:52
Speaker 1: you to me, to me, to me, adol wand it's
1:10
Speaker 1: new cold to walk. I keep looking for you, but
1:18
Speaker 1: I'm disfrosted. You should come home to me. Whoa to me?
1:34
Speaker 1: To me? Please come on, come on. I'm tired of
1:54
Speaker 1: the moon and keep in mind company. I'm tired of
2:01
Speaker 1: the dark and a night full of brittle stars. Should
2:09
Speaker 1: come home to me? Hoh to me, Ho to me,
2:27
Speaker 1: he please come home, come home. You wonder w gueed,
2:45
Speaker 1: I wonder what you see. I wonder what you're thinking,
2:53
Speaker 1: and if you'll ever be come in home to me,
3:02
Speaker 1: Home to me, Ho to me, come in home to me,
3:19
Speaker 1: Ho to me, to please come home come home. That
3:46
Speaker 1: was Amanda Shires singing home to Me. Shire's new holiday
3:50
Speaker 1: album for Christmas Isn't meant to make you feel merry
3:53
Speaker 1: and bright Instead, It's an acknowledgment of the complicated feelings
3:57
Speaker 1: that a lot of us have around the holidays, like disappointment, longing,
4:02
Speaker 1: and maybe even a little bit of lust. In addition
4:05
Speaker 1: to her solo career, Amanda Shire's plays fiddle and sings
4:08
Speaker 1: in her husband Jason Isabel's band, the four hundred Unit.
4:12
Speaker 1: She's also a founding member of the female country supergroup
4:15
Speaker 1: The High Woman with Brandy Carlisle. But wait before she
4:18
Speaker 1: hit a big and Nashville. With all of that, Shires
4:21
Speaker 1: played fiddle with the Texas Playboys, the legendary Western swing
4:24
Speaker 1: band started by Bob Wills that she joined when she
4:27
Speaker 1: was just twelve years old. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam
4:31
Speaker 1: talks to Amanda Shires about what inspired her to write
4:34
Speaker 1: a non traditional Christmas album. Shires also explains how finding
4:38
Speaker 1: out that her grandfather served decades in Alcatraz raised a
4:42
Speaker 1: ton of questions about her family's history, and she recalls
4:45
Speaker 1: what happened the time she discovered Jason Isabel ripped off
4:49
Speaker 1: one of her lyrics. This is broken record liner notes
4:55
Speaker 1: for the digital age. I'm justin Richmondon. Here's Bruce Headlam
5:04
Speaker 1: with Amanda Shires. First of all Nanda Shires. Thank you
5:07
Speaker 1: so much for doing this, for having me. People who
5:10
Speaker 1: know your music, which is moody and very evocative, might
5:14
Speaker 1: be surprised that you had a Christmas album out. I
5:17
Speaker 1: was surprised you had a Christmas album out. So tell
5:19
Speaker 1: me what the thinking was going into this. I'm surprised
5:22
Speaker 1: to have a Christmas record. Out of all the things
5:25
Speaker 1: I had never thought I would do, it was a
5:27
Speaker 1: Christmas record. But I think the catalyst for it all
5:31
Speaker 1: was just going into this year knowing that Christmas is
5:34
Speaker 1: going to probably resume to some sort of sense of
5:38
Speaker 1: normalcy as opposed to last year. Last year, I was
5:42
Speaker 1: really happy not hearing all the Christmas jams and going
5:45
Speaker 1: out shopping and all that. You know. That's not to
5:48
Speaker 1: say I didn't miss a lot of stuff about normal holidays.
5:51
Speaker 1: So that was what started at all, as like that
5:53
Speaker 1: that might be a good song idea in there, and
5:55
Speaker 1: I started writing one song, and then I wrote ten,
5:58
Speaker 1: and then I covered one. Now, when you were growing up,
6:01
Speaker 1: I think most people had like a favorite holiday album.
6:04
Speaker 1: Did you have a holiday album at home that you
6:05
Speaker 1: were thinking of when you did this? I really liked that.
6:08
Speaker 1: Vince Giraldi I really liked that one in Bura Lives,
6:12
Speaker 1: you know, and my mom listened to a lot of
6:15
Speaker 1: like Pavarotti and what are those folks names? Those Irish
6:18
Speaker 1: folks that sing Christmas songs? They're like operatic, Yes that
6:24
Speaker 1: you did it the chieftains, Yes, because she's you know,
6:28
Speaker 1: Irish and she was Irish. Your mom. Well, we just
6:32
Speaker 1: found out actually that we don't know what we are
6:35
Speaker 1: because my granddad turns out, was in Alcatraz and nobody
6:38
Speaker 1: knew it till after he died, so we don't really
6:41
Speaker 1: know where he was from. In the end, he was
6:43
Speaker 1: incarcerated in Alcatraz, yeah, for twenty five years, one of
6:46
Speaker 1: the first two hundred. But when he got out, this
6:48
Speaker 1: when he started a family with my grandmother. But nobody
6:52
Speaker 1: knew any of this, this stuff about Alcatraz and all
6:55
Speaker 1: this until our merchandise guy gave me a family tree,
6:59
Speaker 1: like a complete one because his uncle is what are
7:03
Speaker 1: those genealogists types, And I was looking through it and
7:06
Speaker 1: I was like, that can't be real. Is that real?
7:08
Speaker 1: And then we hired a private investigator and it turns
7:11
Speaker 1: out it's true. That's amazing. Can you tell us what
7:14
Speaker 1: he was in for Yeah, he was a young man
7:18
Speaker 1: that was a career criminal, car thiefs, and you know
7:23
Speaker 1: how the money used to be in the post offices. Yeah,
7:26
Speaker 1: so he held up a post office and he took
7:29
Speaker 1: the postmaster's child and why hostage, and nothing happened to
7:37
Speaker 1: them but except for obviously some kind of trauma. But yeah,
7:40
Speaker 1: when he got caught. After that, he went to Alcatraz.
7:44
Speaker 1: Did you know your grandfather when I was young. I
7:47
Speaker 1: did for a little while, and he passed away. He
7:49
Speaker 1: was he was quite old at that point. But yeah,
7:52
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna shed some light on a lot
7:54
Speaker 1: of different things in my life. Probably well when you
7:59
Speaker 1: do your Christmas and Alcatraz album exactly, So there's elements
8:03
Speaker 1: to that in my Christmas records. You know, people go
8:07
Speaker 1: to prison. You know John Prine had a Christmas in prison,
8:10
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, so you're gonna play some songs for us,
8:13
Speaker 1: So tell me first about Home to Me. Home to
8:16
Speaker 1: Me captures a feeling of wishing folks were around that
8:21
Speaker 1: aren't well at Christmas time or any other time, and
8:25
Speaker 1: I think that that's feelings we all have around the
8:27
Speaker 1: holiday season. In any season, it's kind of a desperate
8:31
Speaker 1: plea for reconciliation. I guess was that your feeling last
8:36
Speaker 1: year with Christmas when you were isolated. I feel that
8:40
Speaker 1: way about different people in it that come in and
8:43
Speaker 1: out of my life, and then different family members. And
8:46
Speaker 1: I kind of wrote it in a way where I
8:48
Speaker 1: was trying to apply it to different types of relationships
8:52
Speaker 1: that I've had, but mostly it's like a love relationship.
8:56
Speaker 1: When I think about it, pretty hard, I just like
8:58
Speaker 1: to mask all my true feelings with you know, other feelings.
9:02
Speaker 1: Feelings are complicated because to me, I thought it was
9:05
Speaker 1: a romantic song or a song about a romantic relationship,
9:08
Speaker 1: but really you were talking about something else. I'm talking
9:11
Speaker 1: about that. But I don't want the folks that feel
9:14
Speaker 1: moved by the song and wish that it was their
9:16
Speaker 1: own father or somebody to feel way laid in the
9:19
Speaker 1: outcome of finding out that it is like a wanting
9:22
Speaker 1: a love relationship. But I guess I should trust my audience.
9:26
Speaker 1: It reminded me this song that holiday songs can be
9:31
Speaker 1: actually the saddest songs. It seemed to me the flip
9:34
Speaker 1: side of that old song I'll be Home for Christmas right,
9:38
Speaker 1: which was a big wartime song. This seemed like from
9:40
Speaker 1: the other end, like come home. It is that for sure.
9:43
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll just start being honest about it. Who cares.
9:46
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you want somebody in your life
9:49
Speaker 1: and it's just not going right, and it sucks worse
9:52
Speaker 1: around Christmas. Yeah, things suck words around Christmas. Yeah, let's
9:57
Speaker 1: go back a bit. You grew up in Texas and
10:00
Speaker 1: you grew up Is it true you grew up near
10:02
Speaker 1: Mineral Wells. I was born in Mineral Wells, population eight
10:06
Speaker 1: and my dad and my gran parents and stuff still
10:10
Speaker 1: live out there. And then when my dad and mom
10:12
Speaker 1: split up, I lived with my mom in Kansas City
10:16
Speaker 1: and then love it because where she finally settled down.
10:18
Speaker 1: I don't know Texas very well. I've been there a
10:21
Speaker 1: few times. I only knew Mineral Wells from the Tom
10:24
Speaker 1: Russell song. I didn't know it was a real place.
10:26
Speaker 1: It's a real place. I have a song called Mineral
10:29
Speaker 1: Wells too. Okay, this is embarrassing because I totally missed that. Listen.
10:33
Speaker 1: I have a little bit embarrassed that I tried to
10:35
Speaker 1: lie off my feelings on a Christmas song a minute ago.
10:38
Speaker 1: So even well, we're gonna get deeper into your feelings.
10:42
Speaker 1: Don't worry. Oh good, okay. I have to ask you
10:44
Speaker 1: because a lot of people compare your voice to Dolly
10:47
Speaker 1: Parton's voice, and that's of course a compliment. When did
10:50
Speaker 1: you first meet Dolly Parton? I met her at OURCA
10:54
Speaker 1: studio A for rehearsals for the Highwomen Newport Show. Now
11:00
Speaker 1: what was that like? I mean, I asked your assistant
11:03
Speaker 1: the day before, I said, what do you think Dolly
11:06
Speaker 1: Parton would like me to wear? Because I really want
11:08
Speaker 1: to make it good depression. She said probably leather and lace,
11:13
Speaker 1: and so at home and the next stay I put
11:14
Speaker 1: on leather and lace, and sure enough it worked. I waited.
11:17
Speaker 1: I got there early, and she came in and we
11:20
Speaker 1: talked about our leather and lace a lot, and it
11:21
Speaker 1: was magical and terrifying. I mean, watching her work is
11:26
Speaker 1: an incredible thing. We'll be right back with more from
11:30
Speaker 1: Amanda Shires. After a quick break. We're back with Bruce
11:36
Speaker 1: Hudlam and Amanda Shires. So was there music in your
11:41
Speaker 1: family growing up? Was there always music around the house.
11:44
Speaker 1: There was music in my mom's house and then at
11:47
Speaker 1: my granddad's and dads. They do wholesale greenhouse stuff. Where
11:51
Speaker 1: you grow plants and stuff for your nurseries. So there
11:53
Speaker 1: was music playing on the radio and stuff there, and
11:56
Speaker 1: then in the pecan orchards, it was just turning the
11:58
Speaker 1: tractor radio as loud as you could get it. But
12:02
Speaker 1: my grandfather that I was very close to Garland, he
12:06
Speaker 1: wasn't of the generation, and I don't think they thought
12:11
Speaker 1: that playing music was going to get you anywhere because
12:13
Speaker 1: he had a guitar, but it was just in his closet.
12:15
Speaker 1: And then you started with violin. Is that what's that
12:19
Speaker 1: your first? Yeah, violin? I got that violin and I
12:22
Speaker 1: started playing in school. And then I met Frankie McCord
12:26
Speaker 1: from the Texas Playboys and started to learning my ear
12:30
Speaker 1: from him on his porch and was going to quit violin,
12:34
Speaker 1: and then my mom said, how about you do violin
12:36
Speaker 1: and we could parallel that with the fiddle, And I said,
12:41
Speaker 1: that sounds like a sweet deal. What was it like
12:43
Speaker 1: to sit on his porch and learn those old Texas
12:46
Speaker 1: Playboy songs? Because that's some that's very high end fiddling.
12:49
Speaker 1: That's a lot of jazz, all that Western swing stuff
12:53
Speaker 1: is really it's pretty accomplished. I was what they call
12:57
Speaker 1: ate up with it. It was my joy not just
13:00
Speaker 1: to hang out with him and listen to him talk
13:02
Speaker 1: and sing, but to learn and then even go deeper
13:06
Speaker 1: like he learned fro him the first recorded fiddler Robertson,
13:10
Speaker 1: and learned songs that predate the Will's Band and stuff
13:13
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know if there's a lot of
13:14
Speaker 1: audio of them, but I've got tapes and CDs and
13:17
Speaker 1: stuff full of the stuff, and I just somehow I
13:22
Speaker 1: don't know why. Well, I do know why. I've always
13:24
Speaker 1: been good at making friends with old folks, and I
13:27
Speaker 1: really prefer it because they they're decisive and they're setting
13:31
Speaker 1: their ways and direct. You know. It's so I do
13:35
Speaker 1: well in that situation. And then the music, it just
13:39
Speaker 1: spoke to me. So I did that. And you know,
13:41
Speaker 1: instrumental music is the way I used to express myself
13:45
Speaker 1: back then, because I didn't really have a vocabulary for
13:48
Speaker 1: expression as a ten or twelve year old with very
13:51
Speaker 1: little frontal lobe development. Do you remember the first couple
13:54
Speaker 1: of songs you learned. The first Bob Wills song I
13:56
Speaker 1: ever learned was Spanish two step, and that is the
14:00
Speaker 1: day I was told my mom I was going to
14:02
Speaker 1: quit playing the violin. She's like, we're going to just
14:04
Speaker 1: do both. And then you joined the Texas Playboys for
14:07
Speaker 1: a while. How old were you? Twelve? I would go
14:10
Speaker 1: in and out in between school and when they needed me.
14:14
Speaker 1: You know, they didn't play a whole whole lot, but
14:18
Speaker 1: it was enough where I felt like a member of
14:20
Speaker 1: a band, and we had scheduling and logistics and stuff.
14:24
Speaker 1: It wasn't like when you think of touring artists now,
14:27
Speaker 1: but a lot of that was they needed somebody to
14:31
Speaker 1: play that low third part and I was willing to
14:33
Speaker 1: do it. And I don't think I really had an
14:36
Speaker 1: ego about any of the music or anything. I was
14:38
Speaker 1: just happy to be there. My stuff worked and I
14:40
Speaker 1: showed up on time and we all got along well.
14:44
Speaker 1: And eventually they started teaching me how to improvise, and
14:47
Speaker 1: that was a whole new bag of worms. How did
14:49
Speaker 1: they teach you that? In my mind, it's like throw
14:51
Speaker 1: your kid into the swimming pool. They'll eventually swim. They'd
14:54
Speaker 1: take their solos, you know, all night long, and they're like,
14:57
Speaker 1: at some point we're going to point out your're gonna
14:59
Speaker 1: do your solo. And I'm thinking, okay, well, this could
15:02
Speaker 1: go a lot of different ways. But they're my friends.
15:04
Speaker 1: They'll catch me if I fall, and I did. I fell,
15:07
Speaker 1: and I failed a whole whole lot. But they kept
15:10
Speaker 1: making me do it, not making me giving me the
15:12
Speaker 1: chance to do it. Like we play a song like
15:15
Speaker 1: old fashioned love, you know, some easy, easy changes and
15:19
Speaker 1: all right, a mandature turn and I'd have to go
15:22
Speaker 1: step up like I was taking a major solo. Then
15:25
Speaker 1: you learned really quickly that way, you know, were you
15:27
Speaker 1: listening to records as well of violin players to try
15:30
Speaker 1: and get ideas. I didn't think about getting ideas from
15:34
Speaker 1: anything as far as improvisation until later, because I didn't
15:40
Speaker 1: know that that was a way to do it. But
15:43
Speaker 1: during that time I was in order to go to school,
15:47
Speaker 1: high school and junior high and all that and be
15:50
Speaker 1: part of the kid culture I was in. I had
15:53
Speaker 1: to also maintain what was on the pop radio, rap radio,
15:57
Speaker 1: you know, the Tejato stations. But at home it was
16:00
Speaker 1: strictly Bob Will's Tiffany transcriptions. That I listened to a
16:05
Speaker 1: lot of the individual Texas Playboys is fiddle in records,
16:10
Speaker 1: and then my favorite was Louie Tierney who played with
16:13
Speaker 1: them a lot. So I'd go listen to that song
16:16
Speaker 1: just to hear that part again, and I liked all
16:18
Speaker 1: of them. And you're a very gritty violin player. It's sharp,
16:23
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of bite to when you're playing.
16:25
Speaker 1: Like I compare you to somebody like Alison Crows, who's
16:28
Speaker 1: a very famous fiddler, but she's got a much sweeter sound.
16:31
Speaker 1: You like that really is that kind of a Texas sound,
16:33
Speaker 1: that harder sound. I think that's a sound that I've
16:38
Speaker 1: kind of developed from listening to rock and roll in
16:41
Speaker 1: fighting with guitars, and it's also got a lot of
16:45
Speaker 1: what I have, which is an attitude. I also think
16:48
Speaker 1: that you can do a lot with the texture of sounds,
16:50
Speaker 1: because sometimes I do think it's appropriate to make your
16:53
Speaker 1: violin whistle or go harmonic scrapy for whatever effect you're
16:59
Speaker 1: trying to achieve. And then depending on who's producing those
17:03
Speaker 1: types of things can be you know, affected in a
17:05
Speaker 1: way that changes a complete landscape of a song. Sometimes,
17:09
Speaker 1: like in that song Adjacent's if We're Vampires, there's some
17:12
Speaker 1: of that going on. And then Traveling Alone was kind
17:16
Speaker 1: of when I started playing with that idea and when
17:18
Speaker 1: did the songwriting start? Because of the playboys, you were
17:21
Speaker 1: on a bunch of albums. You were fiddling for a
17:23
Speaker 1: lot of people. You're sort of a side player. When
17:27
Speaker 1: did you start songwriting? I started, you know, I have
17:31
Speaker 1: a little goofy poetry. But that would be after I
17:34
Speaker 1: sang for the first time lead song. The first time
17:38
Speaker 1: I sang a lead on a song was I had
17:40
Speaker 1: to hold Leon Rausch of the Texas Playboy's hand to
17:43
Speaker 1: sing that song. That sure would go good. That I
17:47
Speaker 1: have pictures and we're just holding hands. I was so scared.
17:50
Speaker 1: But then I started singing, and then started doing harmony
17:52
Speaker 1: and trying to, you know, be available when somebody might
17:56
Speaker 1: want harmony. Who were singing, you know, just expands your
18:01
Speaker 1: work a little bit more, I guess. And I was playing.
18:04
Speaker 1: I was playing fiddle playing with everybody singing. And I decided,
18:08
Speaker 1: you know what would supplement my own income. I'm gonna
18:11
Speaker 1: copy the Texas Playboys and I'm gonna make a little
18:13
Speaker 1: fiddle in record. And so I made a little fiddle
18:16
Speaker 1: in record, not an artist record. I just wanted to
18:18
Speaker 1: set up on the stage and get a couple of
18:20
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen dollars here and there got about nine
18:24
Speaker 1: eight or nine fiddle tunes in and I thought people
18:27
Speaker 1: might want to know like that I could sing in
18:30
Speaker 1: case theyver want me to sing with them too. You know,
18:33
Speaker 1: it's all very entrepreneurial in a way. Were you touring
18:36
Speaker 1: in Texas at this time or were you up in Nashville,
18:38
Speaker 1: Texas still, because I did just basically all my pre
18:42
Speaker 1: artist career was in Texas. So I thought, well, I'm
18:46
Speaker 1: gonna have to sing a song so people know I
18:47
Speaker 1: could sing harmony and stuff. And I started thinking about
18:50
Speaker 1: what song I was singing. Then I realized you had
18:53
Speaker 1: to pay royalties. And then I thought, well, self, what
18:57
Speaker 1: are we going to do? And so I've made up
19:00
Speaker 1: two songs and I put them on there. Well, turns
19:04
Speaker 1: out that record was done, and I found myself on
19:07
Speaker 1: the road with Billy Joe Shaver, and one night I decided,
19:10
Speaker 1: you know, there's enough room on that table. I'm gonna
19:12
Speaker 1: set my CDs right there. That's what I'm gonna do.
19:15
Speaker 1: And I set my CDs right there. I didn't ask
19:17
Speaker 1: anybody didn't know you had to ask. And after the show,
19:22
Speaker 1: he was signing some CDs and he said, is that
19:25
Speaker 1: your record sitting up there with mind? And I said, yep,
19:28
Speaker 1: and he said, I guess we'll have to listen to
19:30
Speaker 1: that tomorrow. Huh. And I said, oh, you don't have
19:32
Speaker 1: to listen to it. You could just have it and
19:33
Speaker 1: listen to it on your own time. He's like, Nope,
19:35
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to listen to it, and so he
19:37
Speaker 1: put it on in the car and then we're listening
19:41
Speaker 1: and there's no where. He's not saying anything, just got
19:44
Speaker 1: his radars for the cops, you know, driving real fast.
19:47
Speaker 1: And I'm worried. I'm like, WHOA, what have I done?
19:50
Speaker 1: And he heard one of the songs on there, and
19:52
Speaker 1: he said, you know what you need to do. You
19:54
Speaker 1: need to move to Nashville and become a songwriter. There's
19:57
Speaker 1: no loyalty in the side person world. And I thought
20:01
Speaker 1: I was being fired, like it was a polite way
20:03
Speaker 1: to fire me. So I said, no, Billy Joe, I
20:07
Speaker 1: love my job. I don't mind not settled the CDs
20:09
Speaker 1: if you don't want me to, I don't. I really
20:11
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I really love playing with you.
20:14
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm learning a lot. And he said, no,
20:17
Speaker 1: but you should. You could be a songwriter. If you
20:19
Speaker 1: want to go be a songwriter, you should be a songwriter,
20:21
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know, Billy Joe, I
20:22
Speaker 1: really like playing with you. And then a year later
20:25
Speaker 1: I told Billy Joe Shaver I was moving to Nashville
20:27
Speaker 1: to pursue my dreams of being a waitress. And then
20:32
Speaker 1: I started over and here we sit. Was there a
20:36
Speaker 1: song you heard? Was there something that inspired you that
20:39
Speaker 1: made you think I can do this? Who were your
20:41
Speaker 1: inspirations back then? I always heard Billy Joe Shaver and thought,
20:45
Speaker 1: I wonder if I could do that one day, and
20:48
Speaker 1: just the way he captured exactly what he was feeling
20:52
Speaker 1: in that way, and then I did I realize that, no,
20:55
Speaker 1: I can't. I have to do the ones that come
20:56
Speaker 1: from me. But the other people I were listening to
20:59
Speaker 1: were everybody from Cindy Walker all of her songs from
21:03
Speaker 1: the Playboys, I loved that, like that song you Don't
21:06
Speaker 1: Know Me, and then then of course all of the
21:10
Speaker 1: all of the Whale and Jennings and Dolly Parton I
21:14
Speaker 1: listened to, and I listened to acts like Jagged Edge
21:19
Speaker 1: and Destiny's Child and everything Elliott Smith and I had.
21:24
Speaker 1: Then I started working at a record store and it
21:26
Speaker 1: was just crazy. And then I fell in love with
21:28
Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen, and I was like, that's me. I'm Leonard Cohen, don't.
21:31
Speaker 1: I don't mean I'm Leonard Cohen, but that's I identify
21:35
Speaker 1: with that. You went and got your MFA, which not
21:38
Speaker 1: a lot of country writers do. What made you want
21:41
Speaker 1: to do that? My life philosophy is like, we're all
21:44
Speaker 1: here to learn, and you know, as nature does grow
21:48
Speaker 1: until we made our end. So I went to get
21:52
Speaker 1: my MFA like I did when I was learning the fiddle,
21:56
Speaker 1: like with everything I had. When I discovered my passion
22:00
Speaker 1: for writing in words, I wanted to do that and
22:04
Speaker 1: I wanted to know what I was doing, and I
22:05
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to make decisions and know the
22:08
Speaker 1: reason for the decisions I was making and not kind
22:12
Speaker 1: of just go on instinct. Like I wanted to know
22:16
Speaker 1: down to the preposition what the word choices could be
22:20
Speaker 1: and then how they would affect a liner and emotion
22:24
Speaker 1: depending on where and how you use them. And I
22:26
Speaker 1: just wanted to be kind of able to do it
22:29
Speaker 1: with purpose and intention and to not second guess myself,
22:35
Speaker 1: but also stay open to criticism should somebody notice something
22:38
Speaker 1: I forgot. But for me, I get passionate about something
22:41
Speaker 1: and I want to do it and I want to
22:44
Speaker 1: do it right, and I don't get very passionate about
22:47
Speaker 1: a lot of things, basically just music, writing and painting.
22:50
Speaker 1: Where does that come from? Was someone in your family
22:52
Speaker 1: that way about what they did? No, I think when
22:55
Speaker 1: I think about it historically, I think it's something that's
22:57
Speaker 1: been lost. Like, I don't know, I'm no historian, but
23:00
Speaker 1: I feel like people used to do a lot more
23:02
Speaker 1: things like read and be into arts and learning. And
23:07
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to sound like an old grand mob,
23:09
Speaker 1: but you know, there's a lot of TV watching going
23:11
Speaker 1: on when you could be exploring yourself in the world
23:15
Speaker 1: around you. You know, I always preferred being outside over
23:18
Speaker 1: being inside. Yeah, I mean, there's nobody else that I
23:22
Speaker 1: know that really. I mean, my mom was a single
23:25
Speaker 1: mother who eventually became a doctor, but that was also
23:29
Speaker 1: while she's while she was raising two kids and being
23:32
Speaker 1: a bail bonds lady and working at Price Chopper. Wow, Okay,
23:36
Speaker 1: I think we know where it comes from that. Yeah, Okay,
23:38
Speaker 1: they're right, So there we go. What was learning to
23:42
Speaker 1: write at an MFA? Like, what kind of things did
23:45
Speaker 1: you do and how did they help your music. I
23:47
Speaker 1: think the MFA was the hardest thing I've ever done. Like,
23:53
Speaker 1: I read everything James Joyce ever wrote. I suffered ocular
23:58
Speaker 1: migraines and my lost vision in one of my eyes
24:01
Speaker 1: from reading so much, but it came back, thank God.
24:04
Speaker 1: And you know, we'd do everything from workshops to study
24:08
Speaker 1: Middle English and Old English and you know where words
24:13
Speaker 1: came from and vowel shifts, and poets we'd study other
24:17
Speaker 1: poets in their works and yeah, that was that was
24:20
Speaker 1: really fun. Though it's a lot. Can you tell me
24:23
Speaker 1: a couple of examples in your songs where you can
24:25
Speaker 1: look at them and say, without that training, I wouldn't
24:28
Speaker 1: have written this song. Oh yeah, for sure. I wouldn't
24:31
Speaker 1: have written Parking Lot Pirouette without that training. And that's
24:34
Speaker 1: one of my favorite. If if I had to pick
24:37
Speaker 1: one of my favorite songs of my own, it would
24:39
Speaker 1: be that one. Then White Feather from to the Sunset. Also,
24:44
Speaker 1: that's when all that was kind of wrapping up and
24:46
Speaker 1: I wrote it separately. I have a record coming in
24:49
Speaker 1: the spring. None of the songs I would have written
24:52
Speaker 1: without this kind of training that I had, because they're
24:55
Speaker 1: going a little bit literary, I guess, But still accessible.
24:59
Speaker 1: And then with the Christmas record, I would say it'd
25:02
Speaker 1: be slowfall and snow and some of them would be
25:06
Speaker 1: a lot worse. If I hadn't had the training, is
25:08
Speaker 1: what it would be. It wouldn't be the same level
25:10
Speaker 1: of accuracy of words to feelings. Now, I am going
25:14
Speaker 1: to put you in the spot because your husband had
25:18
Speaker 1: an online conversation with George Saunders, and I think people
25:21
Speaker 1: can find it on YouTube. So now, who do you
25:24
Speaker 1: want to do that with? What writers would do you
25:27
Speaker 1: want to speak to? Well? I will say that Jason
25:30
Speaker 1: did do that, but he was never asked by George
25:32
Speaker 1: to write a song for his tenth of December, and
25:34
Speaker 1: I was and I did and it was awesome. I
25:40
Speaker 1: would think Barbara Kings Salver, I would like to talk
25:45
Speaker 1: to her. I'd like to talk to Ada lemone wonderful poet,
25:50
Speaker 1: and some of them I've already talked to. I mean
25:52
Speaker 1: Tom Robins would be fun, definitely, Larry David. We're gonna
25:56
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be back with more
25:58
Speaker 1: from Amanda Shires. We're back with Amanda Shires singing her
26:04
Speaker 1: song always Christmas around Here from a new album for Christmas,
26:09
Speaker 1: It's Quiet right down, the skies gone dark, the sink
26:16
Speaker 1: full of dishes, the mondree a start, the best saying
26:24
Speaker 1: in the living room, there's wine all over the couch,
26:29
Speaker 1: the sisters art speaking. Who's crying now? It's allays Christmas
26:38
Speaker 1: round here. It's allays Christmas round here, compounded interest, no
26:52
Speaker 1: sleeping in. Dad's asking for money. He's in a bad
26:58
Speaker 1: waykin keep pushing down the trash to keep from taking
27:05
Speaker 1: it out. The bread always earns. Think we'd use a
27:11
Speaker 1: tier by now. It's alllways Christmas around here. It's always
27:22
Speaker 1: Christmas around here, solways, always always the same. It's always
27:35
Speaker 1: Christmas around here here my house. Lots of questionable tattoos,
27:46
Speaker 1: silent fights and holy fights. Dave's bassack word views, look
27:53
Speaker 1: forward to a new a new Saturdays, hoping for change.
28:02
Speaker 1: Baby win the lottery one day. It's so's Christmas around here.
28:15
Speaker 1: It's Allays Christmas around Here's allays always a saying. It's
28:29
Speaker 1: all Lays Christmas around here. Happy in the year. This
28:35
Speaker 1: brings us around too. I think just one of the
28:38
Speaker 1: most sharply observed songs on your album, which is always
28:42
Speaker 1: Christmas around here. Can you tell me about that song?
28:45
Speaker 1: You know? How folks say every day's Christmas. It's like
28:48
Speaker 1: when it comes down to it and you're sitting there
28:51
Speaker 1: thinking after you know, everything's cleaned up, and you're looking
28:54
Speaker 1: around just kind of noticing the conversations and enjoying the
28:59
Speaker 1: company with all of its positive and negatives, just like
29:05
Speaker 1: in the moment, like it's just it's just true because
29:08
Speaker 1: you it together just one time a year with folks
29:12
Speaker 1: that you don't see every day, and you're expected to
29:17
Speaker 1: hang out and agree on all things because you're related.
29:21
Speaker 1: And then you cook a turkey, and like who cooks
29:26
Speaker 1: the turkey in the year outside of Christmas or Thanksgiving?
29:29
Speaker 1: Like why are we going to have the thing we're
29:30
Speaker 1: the worst at making. That's a thing that always bothers me.
29:34
Speaker 1: You think about it and you're like, Christmas, it's just
29:37
Speaker 1: you drag all this stuff out and you decorate your
29:39
Speaker 1: house with it. But also at the same time, you're
29:42
Speaker 1: still doing the same things you do every every day,
29:45
Speaker 1: Like every day Jason and I are trying to see
29:48
Speaker 1: who's gonna push the trash down the furthest or for
29:51
Speaker 1: the last time and who has to take it out.
29:53
Speaker 1: You know that happens to our Christmas it's all just
29:59
Speaker 1: the way life just is all the time. But it's
30:02
Speaker 1: just happens to be Christmas. That's what that song is.
30:07
Speaker 1: But it's full of sort of beautiful line. It just
30:09
Speaker 1: kind of sum up that experiences. I don't remember the
30:13
Speaker 1: precise words, but there's wine stains on the carpet and
30:16
Speaker 1: someone says we'll win the lottery. Yeah, it's this incredible
30:19
Speaker 1: kind of slice of life. I think that that true
30:23
Speaker 1: experiences to me are the ways that you can describe
30:27
Speaker 1: the feelings the best in a song. How do you
30:30
Speaker 1: go about writing lyrics? Then do you start with the
30:33
Speaker 1: melody and then add the lyrics? Sometimes I'm like all
30:37
Speaker 1: of all of the writers, you could start with the
30:39
Speaker 1: melody and add lyrics, or maybe you start with the
30:42
Speaker 1: piece of an idea. I'm not one of those that
30:45
Speaker 1: writes to a title. I've never been able to figure
30:47
Speaker 1: that out. You know a lot of people like read
30:49
Speaker 1: the title and they write to that. But throughout the
30:52
Speaker 1: year I take lots of notes, and then the notes
30:57
Speaker 1: I put little like a couple literal and or something
31:00
Speaker 1: on an index card, and a storm in my index
31:02
Speaker 1: card bins. And then when I feel like the well
31:05
Speaker 1: is full, I start taping them around my house. Like
31:09
Speaker 1: I can't tell right now, but a lot of the
31:10
Speaker 1: walls are white. So all the index cards go up
31:13
Speaker 1: and the painter's tape goes up, and then I just
31:17
Speaker 1: kind of synthesize all that and pull out my little
31:22
Speaker 1: voice memo recorder to see what melodies I have, and
31:25
Speaker 1: then you start ratting one or two and then it
31:29
Speaker 1: just pours out of you. Well, so you tape them
31:33
Speaker 1: all over the house. I used to only do it
31:35
Speaker 1: in the closet because I was afraid of judgment with
31:39
Speaker 1: it within my family, and then I realized that that
31:43
Speaker 1: was silly. Then I started. They started coming out of
31:46
Speaker 1: the little closet into the bathroom, into the master bedroom,
31:50
Speaker 1: and it only got tricky once when Jason ripped a
31:52
Speaker 1: line from me and I had to tell them that
31:54
Speaker 1: that wasn't how this was going to work. Did you
31:58
Speaker 1: just say, like, just tape up your own damn cards, Jason,
32:00
Speaker 1: I said, I realized what's happened here that you know,
32:04
Speaker 1: it's impossible to not read the words that are on
32:06
Speaker 1: the wall, but it infiltrated your unconscious and that's my line,
32:10
Speaker 1: and we have to be careful about that. But I
32:13
Speaker 1: Also I don't mind sharing. You know, I always tell
32:16
Speaker 1: them that I've got lines for days. Are you one
32:20
Speaker 1: of those people for it just comes easily, that lines come.
32:23
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what it's like to be
32:25
Speaker 1: a different type of person, but I think that I
32:27
Speaker 1: stay in a particular mindset so that way I can
32:31
Speaker 1: always find it. You know, I don't shut I don't
32:34
Speaker 1: shut it down that part. I write a little every
32:37
Speaker 1: day and I still find beautiful lines and books and
32:43
Speaker 1: poems and room to get better. And I don't shut
32:47
Speaker 1: the part of my mind off that also shuts down imagination.
32:51
Speaker 1: So like I guess you could call it a little
32:53
Speaker 1: bit of your silly like itself. You've got to keep
32:55
Speaker 1: some kind of like part of you that's open and
32:59
Speaker 1: spontaneous and can find magic. And like, I don't know,
33:03
Speaker 1: looking at rocks, that's interesting because for so many people
33:07
Speaker 1: you mentioned worrying about your family's judgment, that fear of
33:12
Speaker 1: judgment is what keeps them from being able to write.
33:14
Speaker 1: You don't feel that. I used to feel that a
33:18
Speaker 1: whole lot. And I don't know if it's age and
33:22
Speaker 1: going to school and studying under Andrew Hudgins, but I
33:25
Speaker 1: don't feel that way, because it's impossible to, based on
33:30
Speaker 1: some words, get a whole clear picture of what is
33:34
Speaker 1: in anybody's mind, because you know, truly, like if any
33:37
Speaker 1: other songwriter took one of my little index cards words
33:41
Speaker 1: and it wasn't Jason, probably wouldn't even be very good.
33:46
Speaker 1: This is positive self talk with Avanda Shires. This is
33:49
Speaker 1: how you do it. You'd be confident in yourself, you
33:52
Speaker 1: know what the hell you're doing, and then if anybody
33:55
Speaker 1: has questions, you can choose to answer them or not.
33:58
Speaker 1: And as far as judgment, that all kind of comes
34:01
Speaker 1: after the records out, so you have time to fix
34:03
Speaker 1: it in between now and then. How many drafts you
34:07
Speaker 1: typically do of songs lots like a song on this album?
34:10
Speaker 1: How many? How many would you have done? I have
34:12
Speaker 1: forty seven verses to Gone for Christmas. Oh you're kidding, no, no,
34:17
Speaker 1: And I have have pages on pages of always Christmas
34:21
Speaker 1: around here. Recently, my producer Laurd Trothman is insisting that
34:27
Speaker 1: I don't shred them for six months, just so I
34:30
Speaker 1: could look at the process on my own better. This
34:33
Speaker 1: is going to sound like a silly question, but a
34:35
Speaker 1: lot of people I ask this question to have very
34:37
Speaker 1: specific answers. Is there a kind of notebook you write in? Yeah,
34:41
Speaker 1: I like the I like a specific notebook, but I
34:44
Speaker 1: don't keep them, like, I shred them. After I put
34:47
Speaker 1: the notes onto the cards and they go into my
34:49
Speaker 1: little index card bins, they all go in the shredder,
34:51
Speaker 1: and the shredded paper goes into the compost and then
34:54
Speaker 1: I use it in my garden. Why do you shred
34:56
Speaker 1: them because the whole place would be a tinderbox. Okay,
35:01
Speaker 1: this is just a storage issue, it's not you hate
35:03
Speaker 1: them well and honestly, like it's a little bit like
35:07
Speaker 1: that that idea of if some they saw my Google
35:09
Speaker 1: search history, they would really think something was wrong with me.
35:14
Speaker 1: But sometimes you have to know the details about you know,
35:16
Speaker 1: turquoise mines, and then simultaneously you need to know the
35:19
Speaker 1: exact weight of a sash weight to use a particular
35:23
Speaker 1: fight that some characters might have, and exactly what is
35:26
Speaker 1: strychnine and stuff like that. Would stryc nine just be
35:30
Speaker 1: after the Google search? My husband stole my lyrics? Yes, yes,
35:36
Speaker 1: definitely after I Amazon ordered a knife sharpener jokes. But
35:43
Speaker 1: there's there, there is that thing where like you have
35:46
Speaker 1: all these pieces of paper everywhere and then been there
35:49
Speaker 1: left to interpretation kind of like like I kind of think,
35:53
Speaker 1: I feel like it's shitty that they released Marilyn Monroe's diary,
35:56
Speaker 1: But I guess that's the risk you run if you
35:59
Speaker 1: leave your diary. So you wrote forty seven verses, and
36:02
Speaker 1: then do you try and put some together or you
36:04
Speaker 1: just like you stroke off, like you get rid of
36:08
Speaker 1: forty four of them, or I can't remember how many
36:10
Speaker 1: verses are in the song. Some people say way too
36:14
Speaker 1: many and some people say not enough. The way I
36:16
Speaker 1: do it is I try some out in the studio,
36:19
Speaker 1: like I bring my favorite, like with that when I
36:22
Speaker 1: brought my favorite twenty in and then I tried some out,
36:25
Speaker 1: and then as you go and you follow the thing
36:28
Speaker 1: that makes it the most, fits the best, and then
36:32
Speaker 1: the other ones could be another version if they wanted
36:35
Speaker 1: to be, if you know, they decide to be for
36:38
Speaker 1: Christmas number two. So you are Leonard Cohen because that's
36:42
Speaker 1: how he wrote. He wrote hundreds of verses for songs. Well,
36:45
Speaker 1: I don't always do that, because home to me, I
36:47
Speaker 1: just wrote that in one go tell me about the
36:50
Speaker 1: last song you're doing for us, which is a real tree.
36:53
Speaker 1: This one's a funny song. I always always liked the
36:55
Speaker 1: idea of things that happen around the holidays, you know,
36:59
Speaker 1: like new love interests or well, really, I think we
37:04
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about here. It's a it's a
37:07
Speaker 1: instead of a fake tree, this lady's found herself a
37:10
Speaker 1: real tree. And I guess it's a euphemism. Christmas is
37:15
Speaker 1: a time for romance and booty calls and sadness and
37:19
Speaker 1: nostalgia and all the things, right, Like it'd be like
37:22
Speaker 1: just trying to that's the point of the record. You
37:25
Speaker 1: can listen to a lot of Christmas records and it's
37:27
Speaker 1: it's either hymns, which are great, or everything's really happy
37:32
Speaker 1: and snowing, right, And this is all the rest of
37:35
Speaker 1: that stuff. That's what so great about this album. This
37:38
Speaker 1: is all the rest of the stuff you're forgetting about. Yeah,
37:41
Speaker 1: you're forgetting about the part where you could find love
37:43
Speaker 1: or or divorce. Should I check in with you again
37:49
Speaker 1: after Christmas just to make sure you're I mean, why
37:52
Speaker 1: not that, I mean you might as well, Okay, I
37:55
Speaker 1: just want to know which way it goes this year, right, right,
37:59
Speaker 1: let's dress you to be seen. I've been looking forward
38:07
Speaker 1: to this for fifty two weeks. I got feathers, gold
38:15
Speaker 1: and silver beads, garling and up to cover all six
38:20
Speaker 1: glorious fee of you. I got a real tree this year.
38:29
Speaker 1: Smells like mentholes and old spice. A real tree this year,
38:37
Speaker 1: took my fake one to the roadside tonight, putting you
38:46
Speaker 1: in bows, a red velvet skirt, dripping you in gold.
38:57
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take my time and for someone get the
39:02
Speaker 1: lights on. You'll in just right. I'll flock the hell
39:05
Speaker 1: out of you. I got out a real tree. This
39:12
Speaker 1: you smells like menthols and old spice. A real tree
39:20
Speaker 1: this you took my fake one to the roadside. I
39:26
Speaker 1: haven't decided if you wear the crown of the big
39:29
Speaker 1: bright star. Oh how you shine for me through the dark,
39:40
Speaker 1: your reflection in the window, you beautiful thing. I'll take
39:45
Speaker 1: what I want. Candy came from my real Christmas tree.
39:51
Speaker 1: I got a real tree. This you. I catch myself
39:58
Speaker 1: staring a real tree this year. There's just no comparing. No,
40:11
Speaker 1: it's been just delightful talking to you. Thank you so much.
40:14
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks to Amanda Shires for singing some songs
40:20
Speaker 1: from our new holiday album For Christmas. You can hear
40:23
Speaker 1: it and check out the playlist of our favorite Amanda
40:25
Speaker 1: Shire songs at broken record podcast dot com. We'll also
40:29
Speaker 1: post a holiday playlist curated by our Broken Record team.
40:33
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
40:36
Speaker 1: Record is producer with help from Alia Rose, Jason Gambrel,
40:39
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help
40:44
Speaker 1: from Nick Chafee. Our executive producer is Neil Lavelle. Broken
40:48
Speaker 1: Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love
40:52
Speaker 1: this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
40:56
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
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Speaker 1: and uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nineam. Look
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Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and please remember
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Speaker 1: to share, rate, or review us on your podcast. Are
41:11
Speaker 1: the Musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h