Latest / The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast / Episode 47 | What Role Does Soil Health have on IPM Decisions
Transcript
- Episode 47 | What Role Does Soil Health have on IPM Decisions 00:00:06:02 - 00:00:42:29 Todd Gleason This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast, episode 47. What role does soil health have on IPM decisions? I'm University of Illinois extensions Todd Gleason. Today we'll explore integrated pest management, or IPM. It is a science based decision making process that combines tools and strategies to identify and manage Pest, as defined by USDA. It's a sustainable approach to managing past by combining biological, cultural, physical, and chemical tools in a way that minimizes economic, health, and environmental threats. 00:00:43:02 - 00:00:56:11 Todd Gleason We'll start by discussing IPM and soil health with a farmer in the northwestern corner of the state of Illinois that has been transitioning some of his acreage to regenerative agriculture. 00:00:56:11 - 00:01:06:02 Keith Gorham My name is Keith Gorham. We farm in western Rock Island County. It's right along the banks of the Mississippi River. So we have a very diverse, different types of soil. 00:01:06:02 - 00:01:16:11 Keith Gorham We have heavy river bottom gumbo all the way to clay knobs, sand knobs, and timber soils. So it's, very diverse in the soil types. 00:01:16:13 - 00:01:21:28 Todd Gleason I assume that means you have a pretty diverse set of conservation practices that you might use in the operation as well. 00:01:21:29 - 00:01:35:10 Keith Gorham Yes. Yes. It's definitely a challenge from one year to the next. But, I'm fourth generation at this, so we've kind of learned over the generations farming the same ground that, what works and what doesn't. 00:01:35:12 - 00:01:46:10 Keith Gorham But, now I've been no till for about we've been there for about 15 years. We started using the regenerative, what now they call regenerative ag principles back in 2015. 00:01:46:15 - 00:01:47:28 Todd Gleason What does that mean? 00:01:47:28 - 00:01:58:26 Keith Gorham Regenerative ag to those that aren't familiar with it is basically, in layman's terms, it's going back to the old ways. It's going back to using letting nature make the decisions for you. 00:01:58:26 - 00:02:09:05 Keith Gorham As long as you can observe and try to manipulate nature as much as you can, but not using chemical or commercial inputs any more than you have to. 00:02:09:05 - 00:02:11:12 Todd Gleason So what kinds of things do you do? 00:02:11:12 - 00:02:25:19 Keith Gorham Well, we've been transitioning more and more acres into this regenerative over year. I guess the main thing, since we were obviously already know, already know till we started using some single specie cover crops which rye cereal rye is kind of the go to there. 00:02:25:21 - 00:02:57:15 Keith Gorham We started using that and then we started looking into more multi species because the more you study about this regenerative ag movement, anything in a monoculture is not going to get you to where you want to be, especially with the disease and the insect pressure we're having nowadays, let alone the, you know, the nutrients, the fertilizers. Then we started using started integrating our cattle into those covers instead of just grazing corn stocks like you'd done years past in 2019. 00:02:57:17 - 00:03:19:05 Keith Gorham That gave us we had a lot of prevent plant ground being in the river bottoms. That gave us a chance to try a whole bunch of different cocktail mixtures of different species plants all in the same year. So that was kind of the the big eye opener a year. And then in 2021, were you able to follow up and do you fall graze then some of those. 00:03:19:06 - 00:03:40:01 Keith Gorham Yeah, we fall graze some. And also to keep this at scale because us as well as most people that can't graze all their acres and that's the biggest thing anybody could probably do this on their their home farm close to the pastures or so forth. But to really scale this up, you know, you got to be able to do it without livestock as well. 00:03:40:03 - 00:03:48:15 Keith Gorham So we started just trying different things, and we found that the diversity in the plants is what's the that's the key to all this. 00:03:48:15 - 00:03:53:28 Todd Gleason By diversity you mean you're using ryegrass and brassicas and other sorts of things. 00:03:54:01 - 00:04:06:15 Keith Gorham Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your ryes, your grasses, your brassicas, a lot of legumes. What we're trying to achieve is getting to zero inputs as far as commercial fertilizer goes. 00:04:06:17 - 00:04:31:16 Keith Gorham We're down to one herbicide past. We've had like 40 some, you know, almost 50 acres in zero nitrogen now for corn crop. I mean, we've we've eliminated P and K, we our tests come back and we use the Heinie test for most of our soil testing now comes back. I don't know if we'll ever have to put P and K on this ground again, by using these practices with the cover crops. 00:04:31:17 - 00:04:39:18 Todd Gleason I'm interested in the fall grazing just a bit more. Do you intercede the crops to get them started early, or do you wait until you've harvested? 00:04:39:21 - 00:04:53:22 Keith Gorham Well, what we've done is instead of just being a corn bean rotation, we've introduced small grains. We started moving our rotation more heavily to the the wheat, the winter wheat, so to speak. 00:04:53:29 - 00:05:18:01 Keith Gorham So that way our cash crop is out of the ground and it's harvested. And we have time for these, these multi-species cocktail mixes to actually get a firm hold. And then that opens you up to grazing and actually, I think these small seeds have been probably our most profitable acres. As we harvest the wheat, sell this, sell the wheat, and then, you know, bale the straw, maybe a lot of these acres. 00:05:18:01 - 00:05:30:09 Keith Gorham Now, it's not a good idea to bale a straw if you want to increase your carbon in organic matter. So we introduce these, see these cocktail mixes in and then graze in the fall. So that's got a value right there as well. 00:05:30:13 - 00:05:32:21 Todd Gleason Do you need to use rotational grazing when you do that? 00:05:32:25 - 00:05:35:02 Keith Gorham Yeah. And we play with a lot of different things. 00:05:35:02 - 00:05:54:21 Keith Gorham We're we're doing some rotational. We're doing some what they call mob grazing where you bring an excessive amount of animals onto a one or 2 or 3 acre paddock and graze them for a matter of, you know, 24 hours and move them. So that's that's kind of the neatest thing we've been doing lately is doing the mob grazing. 00:05:54:23 - 00:06:20:01 Keith Gorham And we have one farm that we're kind of using that as our experimental on that just by what you see when you get into this, this regenerative ag stuff, you'll see a lot of people doing that and that really works. The animals actually trample. And that's what I meant earlier. By going back to nature, it kind of replicates what the buffalo did, the same thing we're doing by moving them into the small area and then moving them. 00:06:20:09 - 00:06:21:23 Todd Gleason So you don't have a compaction problem? 00:06:21:26 - 00:06:29:21 Keith Gorham No. Now we want to there's really the compaction at that time of the year. And you wouldn't have to have to worry about it as much either. 00:06:29:24 - 00:06:34:03 Todd Gleason Because you have heaving and frosting during the winter months to take care part of that. 00:06:34:06 - 00:06:38:09 Keith Gorham Yes. In addition to that, we've always got, you know, something growing in the ground. 00:06:38:15 - 00:06:53:11 Keith Gorham And we're not grazing. We're not grazing it down to, you know, a golf course. I like to say we're not grazing it down to your front lawn. They're actually waste. They're wasting two thirds of it and only taking the top third is what the goal is. 00:06:53:14 - 00:06:58:02 Todd Gleason How many beef cattle can you manage on an acre in this form? 00:06:58:04 - 00:07:15:19 Keith Gorham Oh, there's different there's different opinions on that. Some people say 100,000 pounds per acre. I mean, these are some of the guys that are really, really doing it on a an extreme scale. We're only running 30 head, you know, on that acre. 00:07:15:21 - 00:07:23:29 Todd Gleason I'm interested not only in the conservation and regenerative methods you're using, but also the integrated pest management, that idea that you're scouting. 00:07:23:29 - 00:07:25:17 Todd Gleason What kinds of things do you incorporate? 00:07:25:18 - 00:07:53:15 Keith Gorham Well, that's probably the neatest thing we've seen. But once we started getting our our mixes to where we had, you know, three, even three species going, we started seeing, I think it was after the third year we started seeing the visual change. We're seeing more beneficial insects. I took off on a chase trying to study the beneficial, because I always heard that there were 1700 good insects for every one bad, and we started seeing stuff that I haven't seen since I was a kid. 00:07:53:21 - 00:08:21:01 Keith Gorham Here along the river was dragonflies. We started seeing a slew of dragonflies after our third year, the ground beetles, which I don't know if I just never paid attention, but they are they're they're in droves now to our and our cover crops and come to find out, they're beneficial. Insect. That's actually predator. Predator to the ones that were putting all these chemicals and pesticides and everything out to get our disease. 00:08:21:01 - 00:08:46:17 Keith Gorham Pressure is little to none as well. I mean, and I mean, there was a learning curve there the first couple of years. It didn't it wasn't all rosy. But once we get off of that after year three, then you started seeing these changes. It's all well and good, but unless you've got a market or an actually works as a commodity, it doesn't really mean that you can farm this way. 00:08:46:19 - 00:08:48:22 Todd Gleason Have you found a market for your products? 00:08:48:28 - 00:09:11:19 Keith Gorham Yeah. I mean, we're we're no different than anybody else. Actually, our non-GMO corn is, going to an inland elevator that it's just going in with the mix of the other corn. We also have an outlet locally that's a alcohol grain alcohol producer. Now they pay a premium, you know, a 20 to 40 cent premium on that, which is all well and good. 00:09:11:19 - 00:09:34:05 Keith Gorham But that isn't the reason why we did it. We feed cattle ourselves and also sell some freezer beef. And it it's kind of it's a it's a good talking point to be able to sell non-GMO fed, you know, grain fed type beef. But now the, the actual non-GMO premium wise, that isn't the reason why we did it. 00:09:34:05 - 00:09:51:19 Keith Gorham We just wanted to go back and try to get away from all of them, I guess. One one guy said, when we first start studying this, wouldn't you rather sign the backs of these checks instead of the front, instead of buying, buying, buying, we'd like to keep more of that profit for ourselves. 00:09:51:21 - 00:09:53:04 Todd Gleason And do you find that's the case? 00:09:53:06 - 00:10:19:10 Keith Gorham Yes. Actually, we who study that and that was the 2020, our corn crop. We were off a little bit on our yield compared to our conventional rest of the farm. And we were $82 an acre more profitable on our zero on our zero input, on zero input. We're still having to do one herbicide pass. You know, we're not calling ourselves organic or any of those those terms. 00:10:19:10 - 00:10:32:04 Keith Gorham But we are seeing that we only have to hit it with one one herbicide paths. So we've eliminated our N, we've eliminated our P, eliminated our K and now we've cut a herbicide pass out of it. 00:10:32:06 - 00:10:35:22 Todd Gleason What do you think's the most important lesson you've learned through the process? 00:10:35:24 - 00:10:38:08 Keith Gorham Oh there's a lot of lessons learned. Some of them the hard way. 00:10:38:08 - 00:10:59:19 Keith Gorham Some of them the easy way. I guess it still comes back to the diversity when we first started no till then rye, we learned that the diversity is the key to it. We have to be able to get that cover crop out there, have to be able to manage that cover crop, whether it be roller crimp, which we're just starting to do the roller crimping this year. 00:10:59:21 - 00:11:18:22 Keith Gorham But that's the biggest lesson learned, is that it comes back to the diversity. You can't just do one thing and and come in the house and make yourself feel really good about what you've done, because it's the buzz word for the for that year. You have to be committed to it. It's not an easy, not an easy thing to start out with. 00:11:18:24 - 00:11:37:09 Keith Gorham And but it is scalable if you can, if you can take it to a level, you know, over our 4 or 500 acres of grain, you know, we're we're I don't know, about 20, 25% right now. That's fully, fully off the chemical system. 00:11:37:11 - 00:11:48:16 Todd Gleason And finally, what advice do you have for other farmers, who are interested in adding conservation practices with a focus on integrated pest management, or IPM? 00:11:48:16 - 00:12:11:16 Keith Gorham I guess the first thing is, if you're doing no till now and you'd like to do a cover crop, or maybe you're doing a cover crop like a cereal rye, let's get comfortable with the rye. And maybe with a legume like clover, which is easy. Then try to expand into multiple species. Get comfortable as quickly as you can with them, and you'll see the differences quicker than what we did. 00:12:11:19 - 00:12:33:03 Keith Gorham Adding small grains if you can, especially on a year like this where we're we just, you know, high price, it's there's definitely profit in it and even harvest some of that some of that seed say if you have some rye out there, harvest some of that and that saves you money on your next year's cover crop. But, we have definitely become much more profitable. 00:12:33:03 - 00:12:47:09 Keith Gorham Even with a slight yield drag on corn. Our beans yields have gone up, but we're still more profitable. I guess that's the the biggest advice I got is take it easy, don't go too fast, but try to get there as soon as you can, if that makes any sense. 00:12:47:15 - 00:13:03:10 Todd Gleason That's Keith Gorham. He farms in the western part of Rock Island County, along the Mississippi River in the northwestern corner of the state of Illinois, and has been transitioning some of his acreage to regenerative agriculture, including a beef cattle operation. 00:13:03:13 - 00:13:32:17 Todd Gleason I wondered what this all might mean in a different context, as it's related to IPM, integrated pest management and soil health across the whole of the state and how more conventional farmers can put some of this into place. Nick Seiter is an extension field crops entomologist where IPM integrated Pest Management is often used. I asked him to tell me a little bit about the research he's been conducting, especially that which is related to soil health and IPM. 00:13:32:19 - 00:14:15:16 Nick Seiter I do a projects on a variety of insect pests in corn and soybean. A lot of my work is focused on the corn root worm, which is the most economically important pest of corn in Illinois. Also do some work looking at the impact of cover crops on insect pest management in Illinois. We have a current project that's part of a large, regional, protocol looking at termination timing of cereal rye ahead of corn and what impact that has on insect pest pressure, as well as on weeds and diseases. 00:14:15:19 - 00:14:45:07 Nick Seiter Did a similar project on soybean, over the last few years. So in soybean, we found that the risk of insect damage, to that crop was relatively low. Following a cereal rye cover crop. And we expect the risk to be a little bit higher in corn, simply because there are more insects that make that jump from rye, a grass over to corn, another grass crop. 00:14:45:10 - 00:14:58:14 Nick Seiter So really interested in the impact of cover crop termination timing on how likely you are to see insect pest damage in corn, in particular. 00:14:58:14 - 00:15:08:20 Todd Gleason How is it, Nick. that soil health and other conservation practices, things like cover crops influence insect activity? What considerations should be taken? 00:15:08:20 - 00:15:19:10 Nick Seiter So when you look at the effect of conservation practices and especially cover crops on insect pests, certainly they do have an effect. 00:15:19:12 - 00:15:59:17 Nick Seiter As you might imagine, that effect is going to depend in large part on the species of cover crop that you're talking about, and then the species of the crop as well. And it also might depend on a variety of other environmental factors, including temperature, moisture, the sorts of conditions that we have, especially early in the season. We find that cover crops can favor certain beneficial insect species, ground beetles in particular, some of the the ground dwelling predators that we have, they can favor some pest insects as well. 00:15:59:22 - 00:16:25:25 Nick Seiter For instance, if you're using a rye cover crop, like many, many farmers in Illinois are, you are more likely to see armyworm damage, following that rye cover crop. Depending on your residue management, you may be more likely to see slug damage. Following that, especially if you get into a situation where you have a lot of ground cover and a lot of moisture. 00:16:25:28 - 00:16:52:28 Nick Seiter In terms of considerations, a farmer should take, especially if they're adopting a new practice. Would be to take a few extra scouting trips, especially early in the season, just to see if there's any damage out there that you're not used to seeing. The sorts of pests that you might see are going to depend in large part on your geography, even within the state. 00:16:53:00 - 00:17:26:05 Nick Seiter On what sorts of local, situation you're, you're in, in terms of field history and that kind of thing. Overall, the risk of early season insect damage in Illinois is pretty low. And that's whether you have a cover crop or not. But again, this can increase the risk of certain pest issues, especially if we talk about a cover crop that's closely related to that cash crop. 00:17:26:05 - 00:18:00:06 Nick Seiter So for instance, if you have a grass cover crop, and you're planting corn, that's going to be a higher risk situation than, than, for instance, if you're planting cereal rye ahead of soybean, which is our most common, cover crop system in Illinois. Similarly, you know, if you plant, a clover or a vetch ahead of soybean, you could get into some some unique pest issues there, from insects like, like stinkbugs, and cut worms, for instance. 00:18:00:06 - 00:18:36:19 Nick Seiter That might cross over from that clover, to another legume, soybean. So highly dependent on the system, highly dependent on the year. The best thing that you can do, especially early on, when you're just starting to adopt a cover crop system, would be to be vigilant. Now, similar if we talk about conservation practices, if you're in no till, for instance, the pest complex that you're going to see in a no till system is going to be a little bit different than you see in a conventional till system. 00:18:36:22 - 00:19:04:28 Nick Seiter Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but different. And so, for instance, if you're in no till, you're more likely to see an insect like Dectes stem borer, for instance. In your soybean crop, you're more likely to see black cut worm, in those systems in general, especially if you combine, a no till system with spotty control of winter annuals, in the spring. 00:19:05:01 - 00:19:29:19 Nick Seiter So just keep in mind, when we alter something in the system, it does alter, pest management. But the main thing is to, be vigilant, to scout early in the season and to identify any insect problems that come up when you still have time to do something about it, when you still have time to apply control. 00:19:29:21 - 00:19:33:01 Nick Seiter In those rare cases where it's needed in Illinois. 00:19:33:05 - 00:19:51:27 Todd Gleason Can you maybe discuss a bit more what the current research is saying about the conservation practices, for instance, that are being deployed by producers. No till, and or the soil health practices that they might be using and what influence they have on IPM or integrated pest management. 00:19:51:27 - 00:20:03:14 Nick Seiter So far, a lot of our research has looked at the most common cover crop system that we have in corn and soybean in Illinois, and that cereal rye ahead of soybean. 00:20:03:17 - 00:20:34:16 Nick Seiter So in that system, we've looked at the effective termination timing. We've looked at simply the difference in the insect pest and beneficial species complex, in, in soybean, in fields that have a cover crop versus fields that do not. And we've also looked at some large scale scale field experiments, just evaluating the impact of that rye or winter wheat cover crop ahead of corn and soybean. 00:20:34:18 - 00:20:59:23 Nick Seiter What we've found, by and large, is that while there is, you know, you are more likely to see certain insect pests following, cereal, rye cover crop. It's not that high of a risk, particularly in soybean, and particularly if you're talking about a grass cover crop ahead of soybean. So does it increase the risk of seeing some chewing early in the season? 00:20:59:25 - 00:21:22:15 Nick Seiter Yeah, yeah. Particularly from armyworm, you're more likely to see that early in the season following rye cover crop. Is armyworm a big problem in soybean generally? No, no it isn't. The species that we're seeing early in the season here, the true armyworm. That's different, mind you, from fall armyworm that we had, quite an outbreak of this past year. 00:21:22:15 - 00:21:51:12 Nick Seiter But with that true armyworm that often shows up in those cereal rye cover crops, they don't feed particularly effectively on soybean. They don't survive well on it. And generally they're not going to cause stand loss in that system. So so overall, the the risk of insect activity following the cover crop, in Illinois, especially in soybean, where we have the most results is it's relatively low. 00:21:51:14 - 00:22:24:15 Nick Seiter And certainly I wouldn't say when you talk about your IPM decision making, you know, insect management would not be the first thing I think about if I'm deciding whether or not to to put in a cover crop or another conservation practice, the first thing I'm going to think about is the agronomic, you know, the benefits you're trying to get from that, the agronomic risks that might be associated, with that practice, that would be my first consideration, in terms of insect pest management. 00:22:24:17 - 00:22:54:14 Nick Seiter Yeah. There are problems that that can happen, but they're problems that can be managed, problems that can be mitigated, especially if those fields are scouted properly. Typically you're able to identify, any early season damage. While you still have time to do something about it. The controls for most of our early season insect pests, if you get them out there in time, you can control them effectively. 00:22:54:14 - 00:23:24:29 Nick Seiter Like with an early season, well timed insecticide application. Not an insecticide. That's just going out just because at the time you put a herbicide down, but in an insecticide that's going out, when that pest is out there at an economic threshold, in a susceptible stage for management. So, really, insect management shouldn't be your, your primary concern when deciding whether or not to adopt one of these, soil health promoting practices. 00:23:25:02 - 00:23:52:00 Nick Seiter But you should make a point in those fields to to just be a little more vigilant, especially if you're new to the practice, to get out there a few times early in the season and see what you've got in terms of stand, see if you're seeing any stand loss from insect pests. One thing to note there, early in the season, in both corn and soybean, a little bit of chewing in general at that time of year isn't going to have an impact on yield. 00:23:52:00 - 00:24:15:24 Nick Seiter It's not really going to affect you. It's not until you have stand threatened, from these early season insect pests, that you're really losing bushels, because of that. So that's something to keep in mind. When we look at managing insect pests early, not not just in those fields that follow a cover crop or some other soil health promoting practice, but in all of your fields. 00:24:15:27 - 00:24:42:02 Todd Gleason Really? So that's a small glimpse into some of the work that Field Crops entomologist Nick Seiter has been doing for University of Illinois Extension here on campus. Let's transition to one of the commercial agriculture educators. Chelsea Harbach is located in Monmouth, Illinois, and she also has been working on IPM or Integrated Pest Management. I asked her to tell me just a little bit about what kind of research she's been conducting. 00:24:42:04 - 00:25:08:04 Chelsea Harbach Yeah. So I'm doing I'm I'm on a couple different projects. So. Well, so my, my PhD research involved cover crops and soybean cyst nematodes. So I think my experience there with cover crops fed well into some of the stuff that was already going on. So one of the projects I'm on has to do with, cover crops and soil health. 00:25:08:06 - 00:25:38:00 Chelsea Harbach And that's a statewide project, with I think we have nine, on farm locations and we're, kind of assessing soil health, over five years where, we just completed the second year of that trial. I've gotten involved in some plant disease stuff. So last year I did some, soybean cyst nematode and seed treatment trials that was a part of NCSRP program. 00:25:38:02 - 00:26:05:15 Chelsea Harbach And this year, I'm actually getting involved with, with Carl Bradley. He's doing some red crown rot research. At the, or center. So that is exciting for me because that's a new disease that I haven't worked with before. And then we have, a couple of different projects that we submitted for grant funding to, look at cover crops. 00:26:05:17 - 00:26:28:27 Chelsea Harbach That that one is like a more just like, cover crops and like, cultivar seeding rates, termination dates and that kind of thing. And then, the other one, is digging in a little bit more, on this, soybean system or toad cover crop. I'm just going to call it a conundrum, because that's what I feel like it is. 00:26:28:27 - 00:26:30:03 Todd Gleason Tell me a little bit about that. 00:26:30:03 - 00:26:31:21 Todd Gleason Why is it a conundrum, what's there? 00:26:31:26 - 00:26:59:03 Chelsea Harbach The literature, like past research that's been done on soybeans. This nematode, which I think from here on out, I think I'm just going to say SCN. So the past research that's been done with SCN and cover crops, the data, are not consistent. Or maybe like the methodology is like a little questionable. 00:26:59:06 - 00:27:35:21 Chelsea Harbach So, you know, I spent four years, looking at this conundrum specifically and, and, like, still didn't find any, consistent and significant effects. But there are people who I think still think that cover crops can help with SCN and, and, you know, I can see some of the logic behind it, you know, the, when we're talking about, like, soil health, it takes a long time for, ecological shifts to happen in the soil. 00:27:35:24 - 00:28:00:19 Chelsea Harbach And so, you know, I could see how maybe we might detect some differences in some longer term systems. Like no cover crop systems. But we don't have, you know, those data, so it's, the, the, proposal that was submitted is one that I think might actually be able to, like, address some of those questions. 00:28:00:22 - 00:28:02:10 Chelsea Harbach So that's kind of exciting. 00:28:02:12 - 00:28:25:15 Todd Gleason I know you've been watching things for a long time now, and working with some of the conservation methods, looking at cover crops. Is there anything within the conservation area? Maybe one conservation practice that is more influential than others as it regards integrated pest management or IPM decisions? 00:28:25:18 - 00:28:38:28 Chelsea Harbach Well, so, you know, when it comes to like IPM, like I'm I'm always going to preach, number one is going to be like crop rotation. 00:28:39:00 - 00:29:13:02 Chelsea Harbach And I don't know if that's necessarily considered like a conservation practice, but in like in kind of like in a sense it is, because you're diversifying the plants that you're putting out there. And, you know, that helps with, the soil microbiome. But, you know, as far as, like, cover crops are concerned, I think my, my thoughts on cover crops, with regards to like, IPM for diseases is, 00:29:13:04 - 00:29:45:20 Chelsea Harbach There's so many. When you're thinking about IPM, there's just, like, so many different ways that you can manage diseases that are going to be, you know, you got like host resistance, residue management, which I know can go to go against some of the, the conservation practices. But that is an important, important aspect of IPM. And then, you know, chemicals if and where needed, assessing thresholds and whatnot. 00:29:45:22 - 00:30:28:20 Chelsea Harbach But when we think of adding cover crops into, like as a tool in IPM, I, I have a difficult time, you know, saying like, for sure whether or not that's something that we should look into as far as managing diseases. Well, I think the more appropriate, the more appropriate way to look at cover crops, when we're talking about plant diseases is, you know, just understanding how this, this added aspect, this added practice in your system affects, crop diseases. 00:30:28:23 - 00:30:51:18 Chelsea Harbach So, yeah, that's that's kind of my thing with cover crops, like, you know, if you want to manage diseases, don't look at cover crops. I say you know, stick with your other pillars, in your IPM program. And just know how cover crops affect plant diseases that maybe have been historically a problem in your system. 00:30:51:26 - 00:31:00:25 Todd Gleason Any advice for farmers interested in changing their IPM decisions based on the implementation of conservation practices? 00:31:00:28 - 00:31:28:29 Chelsea Harbach So the biggest thing I'm going to say is, you know, just know, conservation practices are great. I think they are important. But if you have diseases or pathogens or pests that are historically a problem in your field, I think it's going to be important to, you know, gain some sort of understanding of how, have historically been a problem. 00:31:29:02 - 00:32:12:00 Chelsea Harbach So, like, for, for cover crops, you know, if you're, if you have a field with a history of pythium like seedling root in the spring and corn, that's one where you might be a little, you might need to be a little more thoughtful and tactical about the way you, introduce a cereal rye cover crop into that system because, cereal rye is, a host for, for a couple different pythium species and can, can, almost make a pythium seedling disease problem worse, with corn following cereal rye. 00:32:12:00 - 00:32:36:06 Chelsea Harbach So you shouldn't be discouraged at all from, using these, conservation practices. But it's just about knowing knowing what your historical problems are and how these new practices might affect these problems. So that way you can, you know, look at your IPM tools and figure out how you can manage these diseases as you move forward. 00:32:36:09 - 00:32:41:03 Todd Gleason Chelsea Harbach is a commercial agriculture educator for University of Illinois Extension. 00:32:41:03 - 00:33:02:07 Todd Gleason She's located in Monmouth, Illinois. You've been listening to the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast. This has been episode 47. What role does Soil Health have on IPM decisions? The program was produced in conjunction with Illinois Extension Watershed Outreach associate Rachel Curry. I'm Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason.