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Heidi Bivens outfits INLAND EMPIRE · MUBI Podcast

• 0:00
  Heads up, this episode includes adult language and spoilers, but it doesn't include me, your regular host Rico Gagliano.
• 0:07
  For this season, I've temporarily ceded my hosting duties to UK film writer Simran Hans.
• 0:12
  You might have seen her work in The Guardian, Sight and Sound,The New York Times and many more.
• 0:16
  She is a great guide through David Lynch's universe.
• 0:19
  Enjoy.
• 0:23
  We were shooting in the Valley and it was probably like 100 degrees, so there are some hilarious pictures of me in costume laying in an air conditioned tube.
• 0:36
  Like literally laying inside the tube because I thought I was going to faint.
• 0:40
  That's Heidi Bivens, costume designer, on David Lynch's 2007 film Inland Empire.
• 0:46
  Normally, working in the wardrobe department involves things like sourcing vintage hats.
• 0:51
  But that day, on set in the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles, Lynch had other plans for Heidi.
• 0:57
  Plans that involved wearing a bunny suit.
• 1:00
  Once, he decided he wanted to include rabbits within Inland Empire, and we were shooting out in the Valley.
• 1:07
  He tried to call Naomi to rope her in, but she was unavailable.
• 1:12
  That would be Naomi Watts, who'd apparently worked with Lynch enough to know to be strategically unavailable for this particular gig.
• 1:21
  But Heidi was new to the industry, so she gamely climbed into the suit, wiped the sweat off her brow, placed the mascot head over her blond hair, and wrapped a pink silk robe around her fur.
• 1:36
  Oh yeah, that's the robe I'm wearing.
• 1:36
  That's the pink rabbit robe.
• 1:40
  But what an amazing memory to have actually been able to be in a David Lynch film.
• 1:58
  Welcome back to the MUBI Podcast.
• 2:00
  MUBI is the global film company that champions great cinema.
• 2:04
  And on this show we tell you the stories behind great cinema.
• 2:08
  I'm your guest host, Simran Hans.
• 2:08
  And this is season nine.
• 2:12
  We're calling it 'Ladies of Lynch'.
• 2:13
  Conversations about the subversive female characters created by David Lynch and the singular women who helped shape them.
• 2:22
  Women like today's guest: My name is Heidi Bivens, and I'm a costume designer, and I had the great pleasure of collaborating with David Lynch.
• 2:28
  Women like today's guest: You've seen Heidi's work in films like Harmony Korine's Spring Breakers, in which she dressed Disney stars Vanessa Hudgens and Selena Gomez in neon bikinis and balaclavas.
• 2:39
  Women like today's guest: She's also the author of Euphoria Fashion, a book about her work as costume designer on the HBO series Euphoria.
• 2:46
  Women like today's guest: One of Heidi's very first jobs was on Inland Empire, Lynch's final feature.
• 2:50
  Women like today's guest: If you've seen it, you'll know it's not a conventional film.
• 2:54
  Women like today's guest: We'll hear all about the unique education Heidi received on set.
• 2:58
  Women like today's guest: I feel like I came from the school of Lynch and that prepared me for anything.
• 3:04
  Women like today's guest: And her professional opinion on Lynch's femme fatales.
• 3:07
  Women like today's guest: Some might say it airs on fetishism.
• 3:10
  Women like today's guest: It was sort of like an early Hollywood idea of what was considered conventionally feminine and attractive.
• 3:18
  Women like today's guest: And I'm still partial to that.
• 3:20
  Women like today's guest: Heidi first met David Lynch right at the tail end of the 1990s.
• 3:28
  Women like today's guest: Well, the first time I met David was on Mulholland Drive.
• 3:32
  Women like today's guest: I was dating an actor who was in the film, and I was invited to come and hang out on set.
• 3:40
  Women like today's guest: It was in the early stages before it became a film, when they were shooting the pilot, for it to be a television show.
• 3:49
  Women like today's guest: Yeah, Mulholland Drive would eventually go on to become one of Lynch's most celebrated movies, but it began life as a TV show for ABC, the network that made his hit show Twin Peaks.
• 4:00
  Women like today's guest: The pilot was rejected, but Lynch, well, he knew he was onto something.
• 4:05
  Women like today's guest: I remember vividly him sitting at his director's chair with his bucket next to him for his cigarettes so he would have a fire bucket.
• 4:15
  Women like today's guest: I believe he probably had sand in it to put his cigarettes out because he wasn't I think, permitted to be smoking on the lot or wherever we were shooting.
• 4:24
  Women like today's guest: But he was very defiant about that.
• 4:27
  Women like today's guest: The smoking habit was something he protected, very vehemently.
• 4:32
  Women like today's guest: Heidi had studied filmmaking herself at Hunter College in New York City.
• 4:36
  Women like today's guest: She was fascinated watching Lynch direct for years after that visit.
• 4:40
  Women like today's guest: She worked as a stylist, but she was desperate to get a job that would get her back on a film set.
• 4:46
  Women like today's guest: And so when it was time to shootInland Empire, David's producer got in touch with me, Jeremy Alter, asking if I was available to help with the wardrobe because I had met him onMulholland Drive and I was over the moon.
• 5:01
  Women like today's guest: I think that part of the reason why they reached out to me was because a couple reasons, I mean, it wasn't a huge budget, so it was something that I was game to do.
• 5:12
  Women like today's guest: Working non-union and, you know, in this very like, scrappy way, like fly by the seat of our pants kind of way.
• 5:18
  Women like today's guest: And I think was also primed for it because I didn't have this preconceived idea of how things should run or go.
• 5:27
  Women like today's guest: My lack of experience led me to be very malleable in the way that he approached shooting, which was experimental at times.
• 5:36
  Women like today's guest: I'm assuming that could be frustrating for, you know, some seasoned costume designers.
• 5:43
  Women like today's guest: Lynch started shootingInland Empire in 2003.
• 5:47
  Women like today's guest: He made it in fits and starts over several years, filming on a Mini DV camera he could hold in one hand.
• 5:53
  Women like today's guest: He spent years battling delays and know it all studio execs.
• 5:57
  Women like today's guest: Now he wanted to make something on his own timeline and on his own terms.
• 6:02
  Women like today's guest: There were times in his career where he was frustrated by the studio system and by his lack of creative control.
• 6:11
  Women like today's guest: I mean, I think most people who are fans of his work are familiar with the story behind Dune, for example, which I think, you know, David didn't really even express any ownership over the final cut of Dune that everyone saw in theaters.
• 6:29
  Women like today's guest: And then with, you know, what happened with Mulholland Drive, with the studio deciding not to go forward with it, I think he just wanted to do things his own way and not have the constraints of what studio financing would mean to a film.
• 6:45
  Women like today's guest: It was clear to me on the set ofInland Empire that it gave him great joy to be able to pick up and shoot whenever he was inspired to.
• 6:56
  Women like today's guest: And he, you know, even would pick up the camera and shoot himself at times.
• 7:01
  Women like today's guest: So I think having that kind of control over his creative process was really important to him, which is one of the reasons why I think Inland Empire as a film is a testament to like his true artistry.
• 7:19
  Women like today's guest: The main thing you need to know about Inland Empire is that it is absolutely terrifying.
• 7:24
  Women like today's guest: Excuse me, ma'am, telephone. Laura Dern plays Nikki Grace, an actress whose mind is unraveling.
• 7:32
  Women like today's guest: The whole thing has the atmosphere of a nightmare.
• 7:35
  Women like today's guest: It's your agent.Greg?Greg?Greg!Oh my God! Even I, I think would perhaps, stumble trying to explain what the film is about.
• 7:56
  Women like today's guest: How was it described to you when you first signed up to the project?
• 8:00
  Women like today's guest: Well, David was notorious for not answering questions about story.
• 8:07
  Women like today's guest: There wasn't a lot of explanation.
• 8:10
  Women like today's guest: I often got pages the day before we'd shoot something, and I'd go to the costume house the morning before and then go to set and fit on set before we went to camera.
• 8:21
  Women like today's guest: Sometimes I would get a call like a week before, because I was in New York and I would be asked to come to LA.
• 8:26
  Women like today's guest: Jeremy Alter, producer, would call me and say, "We're going to shoot next week.
• 8:32
  Women like today's guest: Can you be here?" So it was very unorthodox in a way, and I think that sort of like energy amongst the crew created this exciting fervor of not knowing exactly what we were making, but trusting David.
• 8:50
  Women like today's guest: So yeah, I never received a hard script from like, front to back.
• 8:59
  Women like today's guest: If I find Inland Empire one of Lynch's most challenging films to describe.
• 9:04
  Women like today's guest: Well, it was easy for him.
• 9:06
  Women like today's guest: He said it was a movie about a woman in trouble.
• 9:10
  Women like today's guest: A woman in trouble, which, you know, it's a theme that he's visited time and time again.
• 9:15
  Women like today's guest: What was the brief for the costumes?
• 9:18
  Women like today's guest: Did you have a conversation before you got started?
• 9:22
  Women like today's guest: Beyond having to be reactive to the pages of the script that you would get?
• 9:26
  Women like today's guest: Well, in retrospect, it was kind of a mind meld.
• 9:30
  Women like today's guest: You know, I was so familiar with David's work.
• 9:33
  Women like today's guest: You know, I studied his work.
• 9:35
  Women like today's guest: His, aesthetic is consistent throughout his films.
• 9:41
  Women like today's guest: So for me, I didn't really need much direction.
• 9:45
  Women like today's guest: I think so much of it came from intuition and also collaborating with Laura Dern, who has become a dear friend since those days.
• 9:55
  Women like today's guest: And she's just one of the most bright and incredibly intelligent actresses I've ever met or worked with.
• 10:04
  Women like today's guest: So her insight into her character and what she understood of it from David really helped guide me.
• 10:11
  Women like today's guest: She always has ideas, so it was almost like she was part of the the costume department.
• 10:16
  Women like today's guest: Let's talk a little bit about Laura's character in the film, Nikki Grace.
• 10:21
  Women like today's guest: She plays two characters in the film.
• 10:23
  Women like today's guest: She also plays Susan Blu, who is the character played by the actress Nikki Grace.
• 10:28
  Women like today's guest: Who is she? Tell us about her.
• 10:32
  Women like today's guest: Well, it's really an interior story of Nikki's.
• 10:37
  Women like today's guest: So much of what you're experiencing as the audience is like a fragmented psychosis.
• 10:43
  Women like today's guest: So, you know, I think it's it's really hard to know at times like who is the real Nikki is.
• 10:51
  Women like today's guest: But the whole film in general, I think, is a window into her interior life, which is at odds with her reality.
• 11:00
  Women like today's guest: And what do we learn about her and her state of mind through what she's wearing and how you dressed her?
• 11:07
  Women like today's guest: David had a clear idea of what the costume would be when she's seemingly in her reality.
• 11:14
  Women like today's guest: It's not the dream that she's projecting, which is the Hollywood actress life and even the characters that she would play in a film.
• 11:24
  Women like today's guest: The real Nikki was down and out and struggling, and then anything glamorous we saw that represents like a Hollywood kind of lifestyle would be something that she's projecting.
• 11:38
  Women like today's guest: But that's my take on it.
• 11:39
  Women like today's guest: So like, if you asked David, I don't think he would explain it that way because he probably wouldn't give you any explanation.
• 11:52
  Women like today's guest: People have a right to analyze a thing and say what it is for them, and to criticize it one way or another.
• 11:59
  Women like today's guest: It's beautiful.
• 12:00
  Women like today's guest: That's Lynch in an interview with film critic David Stratton in 2015.
• 12:05
  Women like today's guest: But I really believe the film should stand on its own and there should be nothing added, nothing subtracted, and you work a long time to make it just so.
• 12:16
  Women like today's guest: And it's a very precious thing.
• 12:16
  Women like today's guest: Every film.
• 12:19
  Women like today's guest: I think so much of the reason why he wouldn't want to explain, and might even cringe at me trying, is because he really wants the audience to experience his films for themselves and to process it in their own way.
• 12:36
  Women like today's guest: I think like, that's, you know, a gift that he gives to the audience rather than explaining what you should feel and what your takeaway should be.
• 12:46
  Women like today's guest: Totally.
• 12:46
  Women like today's guest: And I think that's been the kind of fascinating tension of making this series of sort of wanting to hear all of the stories and hear what it was actually like in terms of the creative process of making these films, and also knowing that nobody wants to kind of step on the toes of David's legacy.
• 13:06
  Women like today's guest: A man who famously didn't trust words and felt every time he tried to explain something, it was sort of pinning these kind of alive, beautiful ideas to the wall in a way that was killing them.
• 13:17
  Women like today's guest: And I think there is actually a middle ground where everything that we're saying is valuable and interesting, but of course not definitive.
• 13:25
  Women like today's guest: - Right?
• 13:25
  Women like today's guest: - Yeah.
• 13:30
  Women like today's guest: Rewatching Inland Empire, I was blown away by Dern's performance.
• 13:34
  Women like today's guest: She is doing so many different things, often in the same scene.
• 13:38
  Women like today's guest: Like in this one, towards the end of the film.
• 13:41
  Women like today's guest: In it, Dern's character finds herself wandering the seedy Hollywood Boulevard at night, and seems to go from despair to total mania in the span of just a few seconds.
• 13:52
  Women like today's guest: I'm a whore.Where am I?I'm afraid. And Lynch thought Dern was pretty remarkable, too.
• 14:12
  Women like today's guest: When the film came out, he embarked on a For Your Consideration campaign to get it on Oscar voters radars.
• 14:18
  Women like today's guest: Oh, my God, is that fucking David Lynch? This is a YouTube video uploaded by two regular guys called Nate and Matt, who spotted something strange while driving around Hollywood one day back in 2006.
• 14:30
  Women like today's guest: And as you do, started filming.
• 14:33
  Women like today's guest: What the fuck is David Lynch doing?He's just sitting on the fucking corner of La Brea and Hollywoodwith a fucking cow!What the fuck is this? Lynch didn't have a lot of money to promote the film, so he got creative.
• 14:48
  Women like today's guest: By plonking, a dairy cow and a director's chair underneath a billboard of Laura Dern's face.
• 14:53
  Women like today's guest: If you want to see the greatest performance of 2006,check out Laura Dern's performance in Inland Empire.
• 15:04
  Women like today's guest: It's one of my favorite examples of how much he valued his actresses, and in particular, his collaboration with Dern.
• 15:11
  Women like today's guest: Lynch and Dern have made a lot of memorable work together, but Nikki Grace...
• 15:15
  Women like today's guest: She's one of their defining creations.
• 15:18
  Women like today's guest: How did Dern do it?
• 15:19
  Women like today's guest: Well, it started with the character's clothes.
• 15:23
  Women like today's guest: More on those after the break.
• 15:25
  Women like today's guest: Okay.- Stay out of trouble.
• 15:26
  Women like today's guest: - We'll try.- See ya.
• 15:28
  Women like today's guest: - Take care. All right, everybody, your regular host Rico Gagliano here taking just a moment to tell you about MUBI.
• 15:38
  Women like today's guest: It is the global film company that champions great cinema, bringing it to you wherever you are in as many ways as we possibly can.
• 15:45
  Women like today's guest: We stream movies, we produce them, we release them in theaters.
• 15:48
  Women like today's guest: Movies from any country, from legendary auteurs or brilliant first timers.
• 15:52
  Women like today's guest: We've always got something new for you to discover.
• 15:54
  Women like today's guest: And discoverable as we speak on MUBI is one of David Lynch's crowning pieces of work his groundbreaking TV series Twin Peaks, created with Mark Frost back in 1990.
• 16:05
  Women like today's guest: This is the show that blew the minds of a whole generation of viewers, teaching them the pleasure of a damn fine cup of coffee, how to tie a cherry stem in your mouth, and also how supernatural horror, deadpan comedy, crime procedurals, and soap operas make perfect sense, all mashed up together.
• 16:22
  Women like today's guest: But as I've been listening to other guests talking about the show in previous episodes this season, what has been most surprising to me is how seriously Lynch and his co-creator, Mark Frost, took the basic concept of the show: the mystery of a teenager's murder.
• 16:37
  Women like today's guest: As much as people remember the scares in the show, or the coolness, or the sexiness or the absurd awesomeness of agent Dale Cooper.
• 16:45
  Women like today's guest: Rewatching it now, I realized there's a ton of soul in it.
• 16:49
  Women like today's guest: Like, Lynch and his crew really care about this town and how it's affected by a tragedy.
• 16:54
  Women like today's guest: So maybe it's time for you to rewatch the series.
• 16:57
  Women like today's guest: Or you can watch it for the first time with soul in mind.
• 17:00
  Women like today's guest: Either way, we've got every episode of Twin Peaks for you, the original two seasons and 2017Twin Peaks, A Limited Event Series.
• 17:07
  Women like today's guest: Subscribe to MUBI at mubi.com and it's all yours.
• 17:11
  Women like today's guest: As usual, we have all the links you need in the show notes of this episode.
• 17:14
  Women like today's guest: Speaking of, let's get back to Simran, Heidi and the rest of this episode.
• 17:24
  Women like today's guest: So it was 2003.
• 17:26
  Women like today's guest: Production on Inland Empire had begun, and without a script to help her prepare, Heidi had her work cut out for her.
• 17:34
  Women like today's guest: On Inland Empire specifically, it was a very like fast and furious kind of prep for me where, you know, I would get the brief and I would, like I said, sometimes go there when they'd open at 8 AM in the morning, pull, arrive on set and do the fitting and then straight to camera, which is not normally how it would work.
• 17:56
  Women like today's guest: Usually we'd have a buffer of like hopefully like a week.
• 17:59
  Women like today's guest: So there could be notes and we could troubleshoot.
• 18:02
  Women like today's guest: And that's one of the reasons why it was so helpful to have the collaboration of the cast, like Laura and borrowing from people's closets, because, I mean, we were working on a tiny budget.
• 18:16
  Women like today's guest: What were some of the items from Laura Dern's own wardrobe that she pulled for the film?
• 18:21
  Women like today's guest: - Do you remember?
• 18:21
  Women like today's guest: - Yes.
• 18:23
  Women like today's guest: Specifically the blue dress that she wears at the end of the film and even the flats, the shoes that she's wearing with that look came from her.
• 18:31
  Women like today's guest: Let's talk about some of the specific outfits when we first meet Nikki, she's wearing a suit, sort of pencil skirt and a kind of 1950s style tailored jacket.
• 18:45
  Women like today's guest: Tell me about how you sourced that outfit and also what you wanted to say with it.
• 18:50
  Women like today's guest: I think it represents an aesthetic that David's audience is probably familiar with.
• 18:56
  Women like today's guest: I think because of when he was born and the kinds of films he grew up on.
• 19:01
  Women like today's guest: He always had a tendency to revert back to, like a more classic period of dress.
• 19:09
  Women like today's guest: Most of the costumes were rentals from costume house or vintage.
• 19:12
  Women like today's guest: And for anybody who isn't familiar with costume house and what that is, can you explain it, please?
• 19:18
  Women like today's guest: In Los Angeles specifically, where where we shot a lot of the film, besides the Poland sequences, there are...
• 19:26
  Women like today's guest: gigantic costume houses run by studios.
• 19:29
  Women like today's guest: So all the major studios have these huge warehouses full of clothing that people can rent for productions.
• 19:36
  Women like today's guest: They're not open to the public.
• 19:38
  Women like today's guest: But for anyone working in film and television or commercials, you can rent and it spans every decade.
• 19:47
  Women like today's guest: Warner Brothers, Sony, ABC they all have costume houses in Los Angeles.
• 19:54
  Women like today's guest: And then there's non-union ones too, like Palace, which is legendary.
• 19:58
  Women like today's guest: There's so many resources in Los Angeles and, you know, with a lot of filmmaking moving away from Los Angeles in the past decade, a lot of these costume houses are in need of support.
• 20:13
  Women like today's guest: But at the time, it was a very, very robust, healthy industry there.
• 20:19
  Women like today's guest: How are the costume houses organized?
• 20:19
  Women like today's guest: Is it by decade?
• 20:22
  Women like today's guest: It's by decade and and by gender.
• 20:26
  Women like today's guest: And it's like I mean, it must be like 20 plus foot ceiling warehouses with just aisles and aisles, like airplane hangar size costume houses.
• 20:38
  Women like today's guest: Tell me about the Diane von Furstenberg wrap dresses that we see Nikki wearing.
• 20:42
  Women like today's guest: The film came out in 2006, and I think that style of dress is, to me, a transporting to that era.
• 20:52
  Women like today's guest: But tell me about why she's wearing that kind of dress in the moments when she's kind of most herself, in a way, most holding it together.
• 21:01
  Women like today's guest: Well, that era of like the DVF wrap dress I think people remember fondly, which was brought back from a different era, you know, the 70s.
• 21:11
  Women like today's guest: So it does feel a bit retro in that way.
• 21:16
  Women like today's guest: And I think that keeps in tune with David's aesthetic in general.
• 21:20
  Women like today's guest: Oftentimes when I will need to dress someone and I don't have a lot of time between fitting and shoot, it's an easy go to because it's an easy fit.
• 21:33
  Women like today's guest: It's also a style that looks great on Laura.
• 21:36
  Women like today's guest: In the scenes where Laura is Nikki is Susan...
• 21:42
  Women like today's guest: There are these really kind of like quite harrowing but sometimes funny scenes where she's trapped in this very horrible house.
• 21:52
  Women like today's guest: The outfits that we see her wearing, where she's in this place where she does not want to be, are a striped tank top and also a dressing gown, a robe that is, sort of dirty and light pink and it's sort of seen better days.
• 22:10
  Women like today's guest: How did you land on those two outfits for that, sort of, specific space?
• 22:16
  Women like today's guest: So much of those two looks came from her instincts about what would work for those scenes.
• 22:23
  Women like today's guest: The robe being shabby and kind of a throwback, you know, that's almost like a 1950s style robe.
• 22:30
  Women like today's guest: And then also the tank top having the kind of like tan outline ribbing.
• 22:37
  Women like today's guest: Like it's not just like a colorful stripe.
• 22:39
  Women like today's guest: It's got this like dull, kind of muddy brown piping around it that I think really helped tell the story just in that one detail.
• 22:50
  Women like today's guest: You've got the colorful stripe there, which could seemingly look happier on camera, but just that kind of like dingy brown detail to it really made it feel like Nikki, her darker reality.
• 23:06
  Women like today's guest: Yeah, and in a way like the stripe could be seen as very youthful, but there's something about the contrast of her wearing it where it's weirdly aging on her.
• 23:17
  Women like today's guest: - In like, quite a sad way, I think.
• 23:17
  Women like today's guest: - Yeah.
• 23:19
  Women like today's guest: And I think, you know, when you look at the wardrobe for the ladies of the night, it's similar in that way.
• 23:29
  Women like today's guest: Heidi is talking about a sequence in which Susan is trapped in what appears to be her house.
• 23:34
  Women like today's guest: Still, at least she's got some company.
• 23:36
  Women like today's guest: A group of young women who are later revealed to be sex workers offer their wise counsel.
• 23:41
  Women like today's guest: They also perform a dance routine.
• 23:49
  Women like today's guest: You know a lot of what they wear almost looks like junior.
• 23:52
  Women like today's guest: Not like something like adult women would wear.
• 23:55
  Women like today's guest: And I think that's part of it.
• 23:55
  Women like today's guest: Just that, like, sort of stunted emotional aspect to their interior.
• 24:06
  Women like today's guest: As Heidi mentioned earlier, this was her first job on a David Lynch set, but she'd been paying attention to his character since she was a teenager.
• 24:14
  Women like today's guest: Back then something about his films struck a chord.
• 24:17
  Women like today's guest: I have an older sister who is a cinephile, and she's three years older than me, and I can remember when Blue Velvet and Wild at Heart came out she had the film posters on her bedroom wall.
• 24:33
  Women like today's guest: And when Twin Peaks came out and aired on television, you know, I had few friends my age at the time who were watching the show, but my sister was obsessed.
• 24:43
  Women like today's guest: And also, having been raised by a mother who has a very strong faith in God and religious, I think I from, you know, super young age, I was like aware of this idea of like the forces, like good and evil.
• 25:00
  Women like today's guest: And then I think, you know, it just really inspired me that David would often explore what I would call, like this gray area of the human psyche, just the projects that he gravitated towards, you know, Wild at Heart, that Barry Gifford novel I found incredibly magical and romantic and, like, spooky and and dark, but also beautiful and bright in so many ways.
• 25:28
  Women like today's guest: It was just such a stark contrast, like the good versus the evil.
• 25:33
  Women like today's guest: I just always love the way that he explored that in sort of a almost like romanticized way, and that his visuals were always really charged and that so much of what was important to him as a storyteller had to do with atmosphere and mood, and which is really what I've always been interested in.
• 25:53
  Women like today's guest: When you think about how wardrobe and costumes are used in David's earlier films and also in Twin Peaks, what looks come to mind.
• 26:02
  Women like today's guest: Wild at Heart is a big one for me.
• 26:02
  Women like today's guest: Nicolas Cage's python jacket.
• 26:07
  Women like today's guest: When you think about, Willem Dafoe's look in, that film is piercingly unforgettable.
• 26:15
  Women like today's guest: Isabella Rossellini's character Perdita Durango, and Laura's character in that film wearing lingerie as daywear.
• 26:24
  Women like today's guest: I mean, that was major.
• 26:26
  Women like today's guest: I know there's a story about them going lingerie shopping together and coming up with that look.
• 26:31
  Women like today's guest: The teddys over the tights.
• 26:31
  Women like today's guest: So simple, so genius.
• 26:35
  Women like today's guest: And then the girl's school looks in Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me.
• 26:40
  Women like today's guest: I think these are looks that are referenced time and time again, from fashion designers to other costume designers for new characters for Halloween.
• 26:52
  Women like today's guest: Like, whatever it is, they're iconic and stand the test of time.
• 26:55
  Women like today's guest: And so much of of what was done was with such simplicity using color and silhouette.
• 27:05
  Women like today's guest: You know, earlier you you mentioned that the 1950s style suit that Nikki wears in the beginning of Inland Empire was in line with David's taste and his aesthetic.
• 27:18
  Women like today's guest: Can you talk a little bit more about what that aesthetic looks like and what the reference points are for it?
• 27:24
  Women like today's guest: I think so much comes out of what he was into during his youth, like his taste in music and films and his memory.
• 27:37
  Women like today's guest: Time and time again, I find that directors are referencing aspects of themselves in the characters they portray.
• 27:44
  Women like today's guest: When you look at the catalog of what was sold at his auction, you know Julien's auction house did an auction of his belongings.
• 27:55
  Women like today's guest: It was David's wish to do that for his kids.
• 27:59
  Women like today's guest: And when you look at all the lots of what was in his personal collection, from records to magazines, books and ephemera or clothing, it's all very from an era that is continually referenced because it's classic.
• 28:17
  Women like today's guest: How would you describe the Lynch femme fatale in terms of her aesthetic?
• 28:23
  Women like today's guest: Vamp. It's very vampy.
• 28:27
  Women like today's guest: In the best way.
• 28:29
  Women like today's guest: I mean, when you think about,Lost Highway, I think that is the quintessential Lynch woman.
• 28:37
  Women like today's guest: Patricia Arquette's character.
• 28:39
  Women like today's guest: His personal taste in women, from what I know, just sort of veers in that direction aesthetically, which I think is incredibly beautiful and sexy and attractive.
• 28:57
  Women like today's guest: You know, like hourglass figure.
• 29:00
  Women like today's guest: You think of, like, Jessica Rabbit kind of figure, a strong woman, very strong red lips, high heels.
• 29:11
  Women like today's guest: You know, some might say it airs on fetishism, but I think when you go back to this reference from a bygone era.
• 29:20
  Women like today's guest: You know, it was sort of like an early Hollywood idea of what was considered conventionally feminine and attractive.
• 29:30
  Women like today's guest: And I'm still partial to that.
• 29:30
  Women like today's guest: So I'm on board.
• 29:35
  Women like today's guest: Heidi and Lynch kept in touch after Inland Empire.
• 29:38
  Women like today's guest: Around the end of last year she dropped him a note.
• 29:43
  Women like today's guest: Yeah, I had written to him right before the holidays and he wrote back to me right away.
• 29:50
  Women like today's guest: That's the kind of guy he was.
• 29:52
  Women like today's guest: And I sent him a picture of...
• 29:55
  Women like today's guest: my friend Anna Skarbek and I, we had gone out to dinner, she was visiting me in Washington, D.C., where I was visiting my mom.
• 30:02
  Women like today's guest: And Anna was very important to David, and she oversees his archive and was on Inland Empire and worked in his office and is very close with everyone there.
• 30:16
  Women like today's guest: So we were out at dinner and we took a selfie and we emailed it to him and he wrote me back and I told him I was coming to LA to work on a film and that I wanted to see him.
• 30:29
  Women like today's guest: And I knew that he wasn't really receiving visitors, but I was hoping that I was going to get a chance to see him.
• 30:37
  Women like today's guest: And then the fires happened.
• 30:38
  Women like today's guest: And then just how poetic it all was in the end.
• 30:43
  Women like today's guest: But I know he's with us all still, like, even more now than ever.
• 30:48
  Women like today's guest: You have gone on to have a pretty incredible career in costume design.
• 30:53
  Women like today's guest: You've worked with Harmony Korine on Spring Breakers and The Beach Bum, you've worked with Adrian Lyne, you've worked with Jonah Hill, you've been working with Benny Safdie, and that's just a little bit of your CV.
• 31:05
  Women like today's guest: What have you taken from this early experience of working with David Lynch into the rest of your career?
• 31:12
  Women like today's guest: Well, I mean, I'm going to get a little choked up, but I just I think a lot about him and how I just want him to be proud of me.
• 31:21
  Women like today's guest: And I think he is.
• 31:23
  Women like today's guest: I don't think he watched a lot of other directors work except for like, the early greats.
• 31:29
  Women like today's guest: So I don't know that he was like even really aware of of a lot of what I was up to.
• 31:34
  Women like today's guest: Although I did send him my A24Euphoria fashion book when it came out.
• 31:40
  Women like today's guest: So I think about"What would David do?" a lot.
• 31:44
  Women like today's guest: And then also just this idea of process.
• 31:49
  Women like today's guest: You know, I think it's important to have patience with artists who choose to be directors.
• 31:56
  Women like today's guest: Maybe it's not fun or it could even be frustrating.
• 32:02
  Women like today's guest: But the patience of getting through the process and to the other side, I would say every time for me is where the beauty happens.
• 32:14
  Women like today's guest: I've really tried to have a career based on this idea of collaborating with auteurs.
• 32:21
  Women like today's guest: That's what really interests me to be able to work with directors who have a clear vision and who worldbuild and who don't edit themselves.
• 32:34
  Women like today's guest: It's like solidified within me that once I sign up for a project, I'm here for the director.
• 32:42
  Women like today's guest: But sometimes I have a vision and it's different from what other people want to do.
• 32:50
  Women like today's guest: And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm really inspired to direct.
• 32:55
  Women like today's guest: You know, that's something that I would really love to do to be able to have that opportunity.
• 32:59
  Women like today's guest: You know, like David had throughout his career, to have a singular vision and to have the support, to put it out there and to see, you know, how people react.
• 33:11
  Women like today's guest: There's something so specific about the way David Lynch made his work.
• 33:15
  Women like today's guest: He was eccentric, he was creative and he didn't seem bothered about following the rules.
• 33:20
  Women like today's guest: I feel like I came from the school of Lynch and that prepared me for anything.
• 33:37
  Women like today's guest: And that's the MUBI Podcast for this week.
• 33:40
  Women like today's guest: Follow us to hear more about the Ladies of Lynch.
• 33:42
  Women like today's guest: Next week, we'll be hearing from someone who spent a lot of time with Patricia Arquette on the set of Lost Highway.
• 33:49
  Women like today's guest: I think she one time called David the devil or something.
• 33:52
  Women like today's guest: Like it was on set, she was like,"You're the devil!" you know, jokingly.
• 33:56
  Women like today's guest: And David just laughed because of how uncomfortable she was.
• 34:01
  Women like today's guest: Our guest is makeup and prosthetics designer Debbie Zoller.
• 34:05
  Women like today's guest: Make sure you follow us so you don't miss it.
• 34:07
  Women like today's guest: Meanwhile, if you love the show, leave a five star review wherever you listen.
• 34:12
  Women like today's guest: And if you've got questions, comments, or a giant rabbit's head I can borrow our email is podcast@mubi.com And now let's roll credits.
• 34:21
  Women like today's guest: This show is written and hosted by me, Simran Hans.
• 34:25
  Women like today's guest: Ciara McEniff is our producer with help from assistant producer Kat Kowalczyk.
• 34:30
  Women like today's guest: Christian Coons is our editor.
• 34:32
  Women like today's guest: Our booking producer is Ollie Charles.
• 34:34
  Women like today's guest: Martin Austwick composed our original music and he recorded Heidi in Vancouver.
• 34:40
  Women like today's guest: Special thanks to Honey Artists, and to Paul Smith for recording me.
• 34:44
  Women like today's guest: This show is executive produced by Efe Çakarel, Rico Gagliano, Michael Tacca and Daniel Kasman.
• 34:51
  Women like today's guest: And finally, to watch the best in cinema, subscribe to mubi.com Thanks for listening.
• 34:57
  Women like today's guest: And in case you're wondering, it's a story that happened yesterday, but I know it's tomorrow.