Latest / We Got Next / Valkyries heal their Fever, then fold against the Aces; Fili and Michelle touch on learnings from Jane Austen and Optimus Prime

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Valkyries heal their Fever, then fold against the Aces; Fili and Michelle touch on learnings from Jane Austen and Optimus Prime · We Got Next

• 0:03
  Michelle: Welcome, Bienvenidos, to We Got Next, a podcast for fans by fans, where we center athletes who identify as women, femmes, and thems, and who are changing the game on and off the court, the field, the pitch, the pool, and more.
• 0:20
  Filiberto: Yeah. Grayson's little toe beans fucked up my settings. These mics are all off. It's crazy. It's a madhouse.
• 0:26
  Michelle: Not to mention there's cat hairs everywhere.
• 0:28
  Filiberto: Yeah. What was your first impressions of the Fever game, Michelle?
• 0:32
  Michelle: So this is the the May 28
• 0:33
  Filiberto: May 28.
• 0:34
  Michelle: Thursday game against the Indiana Fever. Yes. First off, I wanna plug the bingo card that we put together with with other Valkyries fans. So make sure you're checking our, you're following us on social media so that you can see those fun little community building, play- along type things.
• 0:52
  Filiberto: Smash that like button.
• 0:54
  Michelle: Yeah. So we had a bingo card for the Valkyries. Something like, know, Veronica Burton gets, like, five blocks or something like that. And Caitlin Clark yells at the refs several times.
• 1:05
  Filiberto: Or gets a T because she yelled at the refs. I don't know if you included that. Did you take that one out?
• 1:08
  Michelle: Which one?
• 1:09
  Filiberto: The one about getting a T because she yelled at the refs.
• 1:11
  Michelle: I think that was still in there.
• 1:12
  Filiberto: Okay. Good.
• 1:15
  Michelle: But I was I believe I was able to get two rows. So there's a lot of, you know we we were all able to anticipate some of that action that was gonna happen.
• 1:24
  Filiberto: Yeah. Yeah. You did a pretty good job. Like, a lot of those things actually went down.
• 1:28
  Michelle: Right?
• 1:30
  Filiberto: We had a very informal drinking game to it.
• 1:32
  Michelle: Yeah. So the Fever got to rest since our last game that we lost to them, also a close game. So they they had a little bit of rest. We, I think, had three days off. But I I thought I thought the game was good.
• 1:53
  It was very competitive. It was back and forth.
• 1:55
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Michelle: I was kinda surprised.
• 1:56
  Filiberto: It was tight and it was tense.
• 1:57
  Michelle: Yeah. And it's kudos to the Valkyries defense. I think they had a game a good game plan against Caitlin Clark and Aliyah Boston that kinda helped keep them in check. And just me like, they're such talented players that, like, the best you can do is just make it hard for them to shoot. Right?
• 2:13
  Make it hard to pass. Like, you're not gonna stop it completely. And I thought the Valkyries did a really good job with that. And then again, they didn't, you know, stop playing in the fourth, which they did a lot last year, and they, you know, just kept their foot on the gas pedal. And that just helped them, like, get out of that game with a win.
• 2:31
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 2:33
  Michelle: How about you?
• 2:34
  Filiberto: I think the two things that really stuck out to me, it was like like you mentioned the game plan. I think it was really smart and obviously worked to trap Caitlin Clark on the screen action that they always do. And it both neutralized her as a passer and it neutralized the pick and roll, and it made it harder for her to even shoot. And it really it did, it did throw her off. That was really evident.
• 2:55
  So I think the rest of the league obviously, we can see in the subsequent game, I think the rest of the league noticed that and have that in their in their, game plan notes. The other thing is it was just a really fun game to watch. So if y'all haven't seen it, you know, check out, especially the fourth quarter. That was entertaining, high level, like, playoff basketball type atmosphere.
• 3:16
  It just felt like the Minnesota game from last year in the playoffs. So as a fan and as someone who just enjoys the tension of it and the sort of, you know, the artistry of athleticism, that was cool. The refs got their, you know, their byline for being shitty, but that's, you know, just kind of par for the course now these days. But, yeah, again, really exciting end of the game. Really just beautiful action.
• 3:38
  Nice moves. Just for you for those of you that actually watched it, watch it again. Like, fuck it. You know? Enjoy it.
• 3:44
  It was great. It was really special.
• 3:47
  Michelle: Yeah. I did enjoy the the show that Aliyah Boston gives with when she gets called for a foul and just, like, the absolute shock
• 3:58
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Michelle: And amazement and awe, like, in her body language of, like, never ever fouling anyone.
• 4:04
  Filiberto: Yeah. It's like 90s basketball. Yeah. It's like, what? I put my elbow in his face.
• 4:07
  That's just where his face went to or their face went to. It's like, no. Yeah. You can't
• 4:12
  Michelle: do Like, you know, a lot of her colleagues, like, tease her. Like, she's got a podcast with Candace Parker, even, like, Kelsey Plum who's played with her and unrivaled. Like, they've you know, they tease the crap out of her. They call her elbows. Like, that's kind her nickname.
• 4:24
  Then she's you know, she she takes it really well in jest. But then she also is like, stop saying that because the refs actually start thinking that they say, buying into it. And like, oh, no.
• 4:34
  Filiberto: That's not a ref problem. That's a you problem, girl.
• 4:37
  Michelle: Yes. This is universally understood that you're gonna be trying to create space for yourself, but you're also gonna be elbowing people, which you can't do.
• 4:45
  Filiberto: Yeah. That shoulder was active in people's chests.
• 4:48
  Michelle: Yes.
• 4:48
  Filiberto: And she got she got fouled. I think it's the tricky thing about that style of play is that if the refs are keyed in on you, you can't do anything. If you're just constantly shoving your shoulder into people. But if you get away with it, you have a 30-point night. Yeah.
• 5:01
  So it works for her, but it's not it doesn't work for the team if you're just that unreliable because it might get officiated differently.
• 5:09
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I think something else that stood out is that Kelsey Mitchell didn't score her first basket until twenty seconds into the second quarter. So she she had a quiet first quarter. And I I'm not sure, like, if the Valkyries defense had anything to do with that.
• 5:26
  It probably did. But I think, like you were saying earlier, the Valkyries did good job of, like, trying to stop some of those screens for Caitlin, which meant she's not able to pass it as often. So I think Kelsey does benefit from those assists every once in while. But also, Golden State was really trying to own the rebounding. And that takes away those extra possessions that Indiana gets.
• 5:50
  Right? And so they didn't have a second or third chance in their offensive zone because Golden State was was getting the ball back and just like controlling that possession. I think that was really important for that win.
• 6:02
  Filiberto: And I might be confusing this with the other Fever game that we watched. But I if I remember correctly, when Kelsey Mitchell was doing really well, the offense went through her, and she had a lot of pick and roll action with hyphenated name. What was it? Hines-Allen.
• 6:16
  Michelle: Hines-Allen. Yeah. Yeah. Not Not Hines Ward.
• 6:18
  Filiberto: Not the football player. Full name of a football player. No. So I think that's that's I mean, that's, you know, the the thing about Caitlin Clark directed offense is it's not very efficient. You know, she holds the ball a long time.
• 6:29
  You're eating into your shot clock. When Kelsey Mitchell has the ball, when Raven Johnson has the ball, and she did she had a great game
• 6:35
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 6:36
  Filiberto: Against the Valkyries, not so much the following game against who was it that we were watching yesterday. It was a it was a Fever and the Portland Fire.
• 6:43
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 6:44
  Filiberto: Yeah. Horrible game for Raven Johnson. A lot of fouls. But that game in particular against the Valkyries, she had a great night. And when she directed the offense, you can tell you can see the difference in terms of efficiency, speed, moving in the offense, establishing the offense.
• 6:58
  The Valkyries had a harder time with her running the offense, honestly. Like, they just didn't game plan for her that well. So something to note, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.
• 7:09
  Michelle: Yeah. Just shout out to Veronica Burton who had a great game against the Fever. She's taking a lot of contact. She had five blocks, which you know, for somebody who's like five nine, I mean, that's that's pretty dang good.
• 7:21
  Filiberto: It was a lot of her blocks were like below the shoulder blocks. It was really wild, like, athleticism, IQ to be able to do that.
• 7:28
  Michelle: And she had a key block toward the end. I forget if that was on Caitlin Clark, but she she was doing some help defense, think, with Kia Stokes. Yeah. And had a really like, the last two minutes, you know, of the game was, you know, very decisive. Valkyries had to play really tight defense.
• 7:45
  Indiana had several chances, like, good looks. And it was, like, kudos to the Valkyries defense for just really being stifling in the last two minutes and win by two points.
• 7:55
  Filiberto: Yeah. And like Gabby Williams said after the game, Veronica Burton at least this game was at a all star high level Yes. First team, whatever they call those things.
• 8:04
  Michelle: I think the Valkyries I don't like talking about, like, awards and stuff super early like some other podcasters do. But I do think the Valkyries have a good chance, like, where we're at now of sending a few players to the to All Star, but I think Veronica Burton has to be, like, that person this year.
• 8:19
  Filiberto: Yeah. She needs to be considered a top-level player.
• 8:21
  Michelle: Like, that to me, that's a lock. And then it's like, can we get another player or two?
• 8:25
  Filiberto: Yeah. I think she was just so every facet of the game, she dominated in that Fire, Fever game. So just really good to watch her play.
• 8:34
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 8:35
  Filiberto: You know?
• 8:36
  Michelle: She's entertaining and she's willing to do anything, taking I any contact.
• 8:40
  Filiberto: I also love the the move of, like, get her hair gets taller every game. It's amazing. It's such a it's such an important defensive technique that she's utilizing there. Yeah. So there you go.
• 8:49
  Using every advantage you can, you know, to win in the to win
• 8:51
  Michelle: Helps block the vision.
• 8:52
  Filiberto: Yeah. Throws off the vision
• 8:53
  Michelle: of the opposing team.
• 8:55
  Filiberto: Especially the shorter guards. Yeah. Yep. That's really good.
• 9:00
  Michelle: One thing I I did not like about the game was and I think this kinda carried over a little bit into the Las Vegas game a couple days later. But, like, man, we're missing some, like, drives to the basket. Like, some layups. Like, we're missing those. Like, dang.
• 9:14
  Like, Gabby had several of those in the fever game, and it was like for someone like her with her speed, her skill, her height, like, those are gimme points. Like, those are like, you have to make those. This isn't five nine Veronica Burton trying to, you know, or Kaitlyn Chen trying to make those. So, yeah, to see Gabby kinda miss, like, oh, I don't if the her footwork was off, but, like, hey, some of those weren't even contested. She missed them.
• 9:37
  It was like, dang.
• 9:40
  Filiberto: Yeah. I think what we saw in this kinda leads into the Aces game a little bit, but the Valkyries really live or die on their shot on their field goal percentage. Yeah. Whether it's threes or whether it's the around the basket action that they get into. And I think last year, they just didn't always finish very well, and it was kinda hard to watch sometimes.
• 9:55
  And Gabby Williams usually finishes really strongly. She's more athletic, stronger than most players that try to guard her. So it was a little off that night.
• 10:04
  Michelle: Yeah. I'm just looking for any stats that, like, stand out from the game.
• 10:10
  Filiberto: Well, and the other big thing too was they, Stephanie White kept up and now Caitlin Clark at the end of the game for defensive purposes. Yeah. That was pretty remarkable.
• 10:18
  Michelle: Like, she was burning timeouts to to get, like, Raven Johnson or someone in. And it just sucks when it's you are that close it's a winnable game and you don't have access to as many timeouts, I think, isn't a great situation to be in. But also needing someone to play defense isn't a great position to be in either.
• 10:37
  Filiberto: Right. And, you know, I think everyone's gonna expect Caitlin Clark to get a max contract, but you can't be a max player if you're getting subbed out for defense in the fourth quarter. Mhmm. Yeah. So we'll see how that goes.
• 10:49
  We'll be noticing that one too. This is not a Caitlin Clark podcast. We just happen to play her.
• 11:02
  Michelle: I think this is a good transition to the the next game. But and I think, you know, this is something that coach Nakase talked about and the players just having that poise, and to kinda stay collected down the stretch. And that's that's what the difference is in the playoffs. Right? You have to keep your composure.
• 11:21
  You can't take undisciplined penalties.
• 11:24
  Filiberto: You have to stay within your game plan.
• 11:26
  Michelle: Yeah. You have to lean you have to, like, lean in and pour into each other and not start, like, pointing fingers and accusing. So I I think the team just did a really good job of of staying together. And that was not necessarily the case a few days later against Vegas.
• 11:42
  Filiberto: Was that your first impression, Michelle? Or do you have more to say?
• 11:46
  Michelle: I think that's what stood out the most to me. Although putting in a second unit in the fourth and making the game look a lot more respectable with the final score, I think Yeah. Was important. And so I I think and that's something a few people talk you know, the players and the coach talked about postgame was you get down by 20, your shots aren't going in and the team, it felt got kinda demoralized. So that run that the Valkyries made in the fourth, that was their second team.
• 12:17
  So I think, you know, people like Gabby Williams, others, the shots weren't going in, like, well into the third and that and that's really hard. And so you kind of you hedge on the defense a little bit. You start tightening up and really like worrying about your possessions, and then you're letting go of your defense a little bit. And you can't do that with a team as talented as the Aces, not just their starters, but people coming off their bench. Like, you can't let up, and that was a big reason, that the Valkyries lost that game.
• 12:49
  Filiberto: Yeah. The game was pretty out of hand, but the second unit, like, at least, like, I think it was impressive that they kept competing. That was just really good to watch too.
• 12:58
  Michelle: Yeah. I mean, the Aces got close to having a 30 lead on Valkyries, and then the final score is only a 10 difference. So, like, that team, that second unit, like, went on a couple runs. I think scared the Aces enough that they kept their starters in or brought A'ja Wilson back in the game when they probably were gonna rest her a little bit more. But being that close and it and it was within six or seven at a few points.
• 13:26
  And, unfortunately, the Valkyries weren't able to get those defensive stops. But, there were a few things that happened that, like, you know, the Valkyries turn over the ball here, you know, like, there there were a few things that had that gone right for the Valkyries. They had a chance of winning the game that way. That that's the testament to that second unit and just coming on and kind of having to, like, have that short memory, right, and just, like, play their game. They did a good job of that.
• 13:54
  Filiberto: Yeah. There are a lot of ways that they played themselves out of the game too, which was Yeah. Again, rough to watch. Yeah. I think my big first impression was that, you know, I think for the first time that we've seen this season, Nakase went hard with, like, a small ball lineup and really tried to work that into the system.
• 14:12
  It didn't seem like it was that effective. It was effective at first, but just didn't seem like it worked out long term. I think the idea is solid. Like, there is because so many of the guards are pretty tall and long, a small ball lineup and a really mobile fast lineup is gonna work. It's just it felt like maybe it was the first time, and they just didn't quite know how to maximize it.
• 14:33
  And then having Kaila Charles try to defend A'ja Wilson was just kinda they had some help defense, but that was just Yeah. Like, dang. She just gives up a lot of size and height to her. That was just that's a tough that's a tough call for Kaila Charles.
• 14:47
  Michelle: Also, the game was weird because Vegas did not their shots were not going in the first half. But then the third, like, everything was going in. Yeah. Even like, where we sit we're at the game, we sit behind, the the visitor bench. And you could see some, like, looking over the bench, like, how'd that go in?
• 15:05
  Like, they were surprising themselves. So they were shooting well over 50% at one point. And yeah. And the Valkyries still just couldn't, like, buy a a bucket. So, you know, gotta those disparities, like, if A'ja Wilson's not shooting well for a quarter, we all know that's not gonna last.
• 15:22
  Right. So you gotta find a way to match that. I think I agree with you. I I think also it it looks like, at least in the fur the first half that coach Nakase was doing a lot of subbing. So it felt like she was trying to, like, throw different looks, different defenses at Vegas' offense to try to slow them down, which I think worked at times.
• 15:42
  Filiberto: But it threw off the Valkyries too. It did. The subbing felt
• 15:45
  Michelle: Yeah. Reminiscent of Tennessee women's basketball from last year. Yeah.
• 15:51
  It's hard to get into a rhythm.
• 15:52
  Filiberto: Yeah. The roles got kinda scrambled. People were playing out of position. Yeah. We had, Kyla Kayla Thornton guarding A'ja Wilson quite a bit too.
• 16:00
  Yeah. I think so I think the necessity of the small ball lineup too reflects the fact that they just lost a lot of size in the offseason with Monique Billings leaving and then Rupert not available. So I think that's something to think about. I know, I think we just started watching women's college basketball. We just we were just watching women's college basketball, they don't have, like, trades in the middle of the season even though South Carolina was able to acquire a player French player halfway through the season.
• 16:22
  But, just kind of forgetting that you do have that trade possibility of the W, and, I think that's something you're they should be thinking about or probably are thinking about is we need to add more size. Because, again Yeah. You cannot win a championship in this league without going through A'ja Wilson or Naphessa Collier. Yes. More than likely.
• 16:39
  Disproportionately more than likely.
• 16:41
  Michelle: Right. And the
• 16:42
  Filiberto: And we're not going to speculate. That's just the those are the facts, folks. Yeah. Those are the facts.
• 16:46
  Michelle: The Valkyries did a good job with Gabby Williams. Right? But, the leagues become so much that you need a few bigs and we just don't and, like, shout out to Charles and Amihere who are doing a fantastic job Yes. Salaun. They're doing a fantastic job of, like, filling in, but they're just missing a couple more inches and and also just, like, length of their arms.
• 17:07
  Filiberto: And 40 more pounds too. Like, you just need that extra
• 17:10
  Michelle: You need be immovable, but also very mobile.
• 17:14
  Filiberto: Oh, it's hard. Yeah. It's hard.
• 17:16
  Michelle: It's hard to do. And I don't know I'm I'm thinking of, like, players who've been waived recently. They're not they're more, like, guard sized. There there aren't a lot of, like, that that are out there. So but I I agree with you, and I think a lot of fans are kind of looking at that too.
• 17:33
  Like, we need to do some type of upgrade.
• 17:35
  Filiberto: Because even in the going back to the Fever game, Amihere did admirable ad did an admirable job. Had a good game, admirable job defending Aliyah Boston, but she was also undersized. And you can see that in the around the basket defense. Like, Amihere again, did her best, did really well. But asking her to guard and try to defend and slow down on Aliyah Boston's a lot.
• 17:53
  It's a big assignment.
• 17:55
  Michelle: Well and I think it's gonna wear on you throughout the season too. Yeah. Like, come playoffs. Like, you're gonna run out of gas.
• 18:01
  Filiberto: Yeah. And so bruised up and, like, sore and stuff from all that contact. Absolutely.
• 18:05
  Michelle: Yeah. So you just need a little bit more size to compete. Because, yeah, the going into the game of the Fever, the Valkyries were in second place. Like, what? But to be able to stay there or to compete against the top teams, like, that's just kinda where they're having you know, they're hitting their heads on that ceiling a little bit.
• 18:27
  So they're gonna need to do something beyond their defense to get them to the next level.
• 18:39
  Filiberto: So our next segment is a little different than usual. We're we know we've done our rants and our our opinions about things, but now we just it's a good chance a good time to get to know each other a little bit. So we're gonna give each other a rapid a rapid fire question round. What do you call that? I completely messed that up.
• 18:56
  What do you call that?
• 18:57
  Michelle: Lightning round or something.
• 18:58
  Filiberto: Lightning round. Yes. Lightning And round we did that once in episode one, but we did give each other questions ahead of time. So this time we did not give each other the questions ahead of time. So do you wanna go first, Michelle?
• 19:09
  Michelle: Do I wanna ask you a question?
• 19:11
  Filiberto: Yeah. Or do you wanna so how do you wanna do this? Do you wanna do all three of them at once or do you wanna go back
• 19:16
  Michelle: Let's alternate.
• 19:16
  Filiberto: Let's alternate? Okay. Yeah. Alright. Lovely.
• 19:18
  Michelle: So my first question for you
• 19:22
  Filiberto: For me.
• 19:23
  Michelle: And a reminder, we did not show these to each other beforehand. So if there's some pausing, it's because like, oh, crap. What do say?
• 19:30
  Filiberto: Yeah. Gotta collect my thoughts a little bit.
• 19:33
  Michelle: What reality show would you thrive on?
• 19:37
  Filiberto: What would I do well in? Yes. So the funny thing about that question is my brother, Ernie, has had when we were living together, like, back in LA in Montebello with my dad, he was like, oh, we should be on Amazing Race because we're really good on camera because we're brothers. We bicker a lot. We're minorities.
• 19:54
  He's queer. And he's like, well, you know, you've been around the world. You can do a lot of things. And I was like, well, what would you do? He was like, well, I'll just, you know, do the other stuff.
• 20:06
  Michelle: He'll supervise and correct you.
• 20:08
  Filiberto: You can eat the weird things and lift the things and deal with maps and shit.
• 20:12
  Michelle: You'd be his muscle.
• 20:13
  Filiberto: Right. Because at that point, I lived around the world. So I'd been around the world. So I was like, yeah, I guess I could do that. But this is a two person operation.
• 20:20
  Michelle: I mean, I think Ernie would be good at, like, some of the the puzzle like, the word puzzles. Yeah. Like, those types of games, like, especially if anything that has memory to do with memory, I think he'd be helpful.
• 20:33
  Filiberto: Yeah. And Michelle's met my brother several times. He's been at the house. We were hanging out with him yesterday. So, yes, you're not an uninformed participant.
• 20:41
  And we did a we did an escape room between me, Martha, Ernie. And it was like, alright. And my sister Martha. And it was like, okay, we're either gonna really not like each other after this or get to find out that we can work together. And we did find out that we can work together.
• 20:53
  And Ernie definitely was good at those, like, puzzley , cerebral things. Yeah. Yeah. He has a strong eye. So yeah.
• 20:59
  So to answer your question, that was always in the back of my mind. But I've been watching Kitchen Nightmares a lot lately, and I think I'd be really funny on that show. If I was just like a really pissed off line cook or a server, like, yeah, know. Like, what are we doing with the hollandaise sauce? It's crazy. Like, just getting really upset about the random I'd that would be fun.
• 21:17
  I would really enjoy that. Yeah.
• 21:18
  Michelle: Yeah. Nice.
• 21:19
  Filiberto: And then, you know, the tears at the end when they solve the restaurant, but they still fail anyway.
• 21:24
  Michelle: I might still sell it or something.
• 21:25
  Filiberto: Yeah. No. I've been watching that. I've never I watched it when it was new, and, you know, it's funny to watch it because it's so dated.
• 21:30
  It's, like, 2007. Yeah. That was a long time ago. 2007.
• 21:33
  Michelle: Yeah. Twenty years ago.
• 21:34
  Filiberto: Jesus Christ. Yep. Gordon Ramsay is still out there. He's made a new show, a new Kitchen Nightmare show. If you wanna sponsor this podcast, let us know.
• 21:46
  Alright. And are you ready for your first question, Michelle?
• 21:50
  Michelle: I think so.
• 21:51
  Filiberto: I've kind of asked you this already. So it's a little bit of a softball
• 21:54
  Michelle: Okay.
• 21:54
  Filiberto: Softball question.
• 21:55
  Michelle: Okay.
• 21:56
  Filiberto: So for those of you that don't know, I really love to cook, and I cook a lot of stuff. Not so much lately because I've been working a full time, like, you know, one of those jobs where you have to work full time and be busy full time. So I'm not able to prepare my bone broths and chicken roast like the way I used to. But, Michelle, enough about me. Of all the amazing things that I cook, what's been your favorite?
• 22:21
  Michelle: That's where I thought you were gonna go with this. I was like, is this a question for a compliment?
• 22:28
  Filiberto: It's just a normal question that one asks of another.
• 22:35
  Michelle: Yeah. There's there's been so much.
• 22:37
  Filiberto: What's a highlight? What's a highlight? Let's not let's not go with your favorite quite yet.
• 22:41
  Michelle: I think
• 22:41
  Filiberto: Give people a sense of what I've been producing for you.
• 22:44
  Michelle: I think your lamb dish, like, you do roasted lamb and then was it you did, like, a blended cauliflower?
• 22:52
  Filiberto: Oh, yeah. Yeah. This cauliflower puree with a sous vide lamb seared at the end. Mhmm. And a
• 22:58
  Michelle: Did it have like tomatoes with it or
• 23:00
  Filiberto: something? Yeah. If it's available, I do like a heirloom tomato. Yeah. Salsa.
• 23:03
  Michelle: Yeah. That's yummy. I mean, the fact like you make your own salsas too. Think that's that's been fun. And I I have a nephew who's really into spicy hot stuff.
• 23:12
  So we've you made salsa with him, a couple different types of salsa. So I thought that was really cool.
• 23:18
  Filiberto: I made a little boy's dream come true.
• 23:20
  Michelle: I know. It was
• 23:20
  Filiberto: It was amazing.
• 23:21
  Michelle: Yeah. Maybe
• 23:22
  Filiberto: Wrapped in attention he was.
• 23:23
  Michelle: I'll I'll check for his his consent, but I've got some really good photos of him, like, peering at the oven watching all that veggies roast. It's really cute.
• 23:32
  Filiberto: Watch it roast buddy. Because I, you know, I want is well, at the time, he was how old? At the time, he was, like, eight or nine.
• 23:37
  Michelle: Eight or nine.
• 23:38
  Filiberto: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, alright.
• 23:40
  Like, they're not you know, he's too small to, use a knife or anything. But it was like, alright. I can involve him somehow in this process. So you can appreciate the different layers of it. Yeah.
• 23:48
  You know, and just taste things and stuff. So, yeah, one of the assignments was stare at the oven and watch things roast under the broiler. I think also I get real when I make my salsa. I broil that shit. I don't know if you all do, but you should because it's serious.
• 24:00
  Michelle: Well, it's also just, like, staying on the lamb theme. Like, when we go camping, like, you do a lot of, like, food prep before we go, and so you're kinda just, like, reheating some stuff. So, yeah. I think the last last year you were, like, reheating some lamb you'd already cooked, and then we had, like, some was it, like, kind of a couscous package or something? Oh, yeah.
• 24:19
  And it was like, look at these fancy bitches. They are camping on, like, our little Coleman grill.
• 24:24
  Filiberto: That one was more of Osa Buscco like a
• 24:27
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 24:28
  Filiberto: Yeah. It was but yeah. Y'all, I sous vided that and then just you know, we just pour it out Yeah. Onto the stove and just reheat it. Yeah.
• 24:35
  And we have the best smelling dinner in that campsite, I'll tell you.
• 24:39
  Michelle: Oh, absolutely. I know our neighbors are not liking us.
• 24:41
  Filiberto: No. I was I was feeling competitive. I was like, no. I'm gonna make people jealous tonight. That's my thing.
• 24:46
  Michelle: But, yeah, I think also just, like, gotta shout out your your mole. Your chicken mole is really good. Okay. Like, from scratch, like, Yeah. Of
• 24:56
  Filiberto: I mean, I don't grow the sunflower seeds myself, but I do toast them.
• 24:58
  Michelle: Yes. Yes. Mhmm. Like the sauce. You're making the sauce and stuff.
• 25:01
  Filiberto: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you. And if anybody wants my mole recipe, it's adapted from another recipe I can send to you in the comments.
• 25:08
  Mhmm. But you have to ask. We need to get that engagement out.
• 25:16
  Michelle: Oh, my turn. Okay.
• 25:17
  Filiberto: Yeah. But you're looking at me for?
• 25:19
  Michelle: Okay. Here's your second question. You're getting ready for a big game or something or having to do an errand or task you don't want to do, but you need like a good pump up song. What is your pump up song? Like, go do, like, a good workout or a run or something.
• 25:38
  Like, what do you what kinda gets you amped?
• 25:41
  Filiberto: Well, you know, the first thing I do when I'm I need to get, like, to the next level is I empty out my pockets. Mhmm. Because I hate feeling things in my pockets when I have to really focus. I get really particular about that. Otherwise, I don't really care.
• 25:55
  There's also the stuff in my pockets and my bags and things. So that's the first thing I do. But I think in terms of pump up music, I have a playlist that's like energy jams. So it's like, you know, I listen to a really broad range of music from, like, Habibi funk, which is like Arab Muslim funk to, you know, classic, like, Latin American protest music to, you know, 70s, you know, stuff. So I pulled different things that I feel more upbeat to me from all that.
• 26:25
  But, you know, I'm an I'm a I was born in the 80s, early 80s, and you I was raised in Los Angeles, Chicanos. You can never go wrong with Rage Against the Machine if you really just need to get to that that level. And, unfortunately, a lot of their lyrics still resonate. And, unfortunately, a lot of their message is still really relevant about fascism and dystopia and about not trusting the major political parties, but not in a conspirational sort of way, not in a MAGA way. But, yeah, their analysis is still on point, sadly.
• 26:56
  Latin American intervention Yeah. War, profiteering, all those things. Mhmm. But, yeah, I need to get to that level. But it's been a long time since I've had to do that.
• 27:04
  Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. I don't know when I've had to be that energetic. It hasn't it's been a while.
• 27:21
  Alright. So I used to have a podcast featuring musicians. And, you know, one of the things that I had to learn early on is that musicians are really bad about talking about themselves. Mhmm. I didn't expect that.
• 27:35
  I just, you know, just kind of assume that since they're on stage, they can talk. But no, they can't. It's actually really challenging for them. And if you think about it, they express themselves through their instruments, not their, I mean, orations. So it does make sense.
• 27:47
  So one of the things I would have them do is perform while they, did the podcast and actually relax them a lot, give the podcast a lot more like depth and interest. And so it was cool. So but the other question I would always ask them is if for someone listening to music for the first time, where should they start? So similar concept for you, Michelle, you read a lot. A lot of those books reflect some aspect of your identity.
• 28:12
  If someone just wanted to get to know you, what book should they read first? Of all the things you read and enjoy and appreciate, like, what's the one book that you think reflects you or a character in there that reflects you, etc.? And I'll let you think about that while I hang out with the guests and just chat with them a little bit. I was like, hey, guests. What's up?
• 28:36
  Michelle: I think I actually didn't read any Jane Austen until college. It was one of my
• 28:43
  Filiberto: And who's Jane Austen for those that don't know?
• 28:45
  Michelle: Jane Austen is a British writer, one of their British romanticists.
• 28:50
  Filiberto: What time period would she have been alive?
• 28:53
  Michelle: Think 1700, 1800s .
• 28:55
  Filiberto: Okay. So around industrialization before then.
• 28:58
  Michelle: Yeah. 1800s .
• 29:00
  Filiberto: Old old timey stuff. Still carriages and things.
• 29:04
  Michelle: She's she wrote Pride and Prejudice.
• 29:07
  Filiberto: Mhmm. Classic.
• 29:08
  Michelle: A lot of Jane Eyre, lot of a lot of those books. I think probably Pride and Prejudice. I've read that's probably the book I've read, Like, you know, you have a book you read kind of like every five or six years. That's a book that I reread. I was just kinda like like her she's basically making fun of this idea that women have to get married.
• 29:29
  And it's like and it you know, not making fun of it because it's it was a reality for her and her sisters and the way games you know, the gamesmanship gamespersonship of, like, trying to find a rich not only a husband, but a rich husband. You know, also is very binary, of course. But like
• 29:47
  Filiberto: It's a corporate acquisition.
• 29:48
  Michelle: Yes. Emerging of of dignity and respectability among families.
• 29:53
  Filiberto: And properties and capital
• 29:55
  Michelle: as the classism
• 29:57
  Filiberto: Mhmm. Which,
• 29:58
  Michelle: you know, people think we don't have, but we do. It just looks a little different. But and this you know, the way she wrote, she's very clever, very smart. It's like wild to think that someone during that time period would be able to, like, articulate those thoughts. So I just yeah.
• 30:18
  I've I've read, I think, all of her books at this point. And that one just it's just really good. And she's great at, like, character development. And then each of the sisters in the family, there's always multiple sisters in her stories, and they all have, like, just really unique personalities.
• 30:35
  Filiberto: So, strong characters. Yeah. Well, well defined characters.
• 30:38
  Michelle: Yeah. It's definitely for me anyways, it's a it's an entertaining read. And I mean, if you're if you're a British actor, like, it is a rite of passage to be in some type of Jane Austen miniseries, movie.
• 30:52
  Filiberto: You gotta do Shakespeare. You gotta do Jane Austen.
• 30:54
  Michelle: Yes.
• 30:54
  Filiberto: And you have to do some sort of Monty Python adjacent comedy.
• 30:58
  Michelle: So it's funny just to like and they're still they are still making new new versions of her works because, yeah, again, even though it was a while ago, you know, her lifespan definitely resonates a lot even today. So and again, just having kind of that, you know, being silly with it and trying to, like, recognize this crappy situation or, you know, the reality of it, but also try to have fun with it and and marry for love. Right? And not just money or dowry stuff. So I would say that.
• 31:34
  I would say also just wanna shout out like Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou. Like, Maya Angelou is the best writing, like, sentence per sentence that I've ever experienced and read. Like, I will read a sentence of five words, and I will have to stop and be like, that is just beautifully written every time I read one of her one of her books. So I'm gonna shout out to all three of them.
• 32:01
  Filiberto: Yeah. That's your book bio. Yep. I just made up a phrase.
• 32:05
  Michelle: Buck or book bio?
• 32:06
  Filiberto: Book bio. Literary bio, maybe.
• 32:08
  Michelle: There you go.
• 32:09
  Filiberto: Literary biography. Boom. Enjoy it, folks. Share your literary biography in the comment section and smash that like button.
• 32:19
  Michelle: That's a great question, babe.
• 32:21
  Filiberto: Yeah. You're welcome.
• 32:22
  Michelle: Okay. So my third and last question to you is, what is the best piece of advice you've been given? Not that you would give: that someone gave you.
• 32:38
  Filiberto: There's two. They're coming from different places. So I'll give you the funny one. So, again, born in '82. So I'm a big 80s, 90s kid.
• 32:48
  Right? And one of my favorite shows growing up was was, Transformers in Optimus Prime. Just really, like, you know, sort of humble and enviable leader. One of the things he said that still I still carry Optimus Prime taught me something is he always says I would never give an order that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. And I always then not that I'm out here giving orders, but I always think about that.
• 33:13
  Right? Like, I just don't ask anybody to do something that I wouldn't be willing to do myself.
• 33:16
  Michelle: Well, just modeling. Modeling what you would expect of others.
• 33:18
  Filiberto: And not being not treating someone like they're subordinate to you. Like, you get to do the shit I would never do. Like, that's that's what he's fighting against in that in that sort of observation. So that's something I think about a lot when I am in a leadership position. But the other thing too so the other thing I learned at a summer camp back in 2002 or something, I worked at a summer camp, and my head counselor was always emphasizing this idea and living the idea that our job is for our counseling team, you know, internally to set each other up for success.
• 33:52
  That's our priority. That's his priority as our sort of leader manager guys. He wants to set us up for success in our team meetings and the explanation of what we're doing and the assignments and the pedagogy, all these different things. And then in turn, we need to set up our campers for success. We need to set them up for success.
• 34:11
  So in leadership, in all the different things that I'm up to, I wanna think about that. And even in this podcast, how am I setting you for success? And that's partly why we did the practice rounds because
• 34:19
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 34:20
  Filiberto: You know, I saw a lot of I heard when I started doing my podcast, I definitely could tell listening to podcasts that they hadn't practiced. They were just like, oh, fuck it. Let's just throw up a podcast, and you can tell. You can tell the quality, the rhythm, all these different things. So I knew that to set us up for success, we needed to just practice and just get through the nerves and the goofiness.
• 34:37
  And just like in writing, your first draft is not your best draft, and your first draft should never be published. Mhmm. And that's the same thing for podcasting too. It's my methodology. So, you know, that's it definitely drives a lot of my decision making is how am I setting myself and other people up for success.
• 34:51
  Michelle: Nice. Yeah. I like it.
• 34:53
  Filiberto: Shout out to head counselor Tony. I don't know where your last name, buddy.
• 34:57
  But you're out there. I'm sure you're out there somewhere.
• 35:03
  Okay. So this is part of my, favorite icebreaker questions. I've done a lot of facilitation and, like, team retreat stuff in my lifetime in different contexts from Catholic Church shit to union shit to advising and consulting.
• 35:19
  So the question that I like to ask, because it's the most revealing both in a really cryptic way. I usually the responses are really good to this question, but one time we did it at our former employer and the consequence was very uncomfortable. And I learned things that I didn't want to learn about my coworkers. So, Michelle, I wish I had a drum roll button. Don't have a drum roll button.
• 35:43
  When was the last time you felt powerful?
• 35:46
  Michelle: And also, by the way, I love that each one of your questions comes with like a five- minute explanation. Of course. Whereas I'm like, what's the best piece of advice you've ever given? Boom.
• 35:59
  Filiberto: I like I like people to know my thought process and what I'm thinking about.
• 36:02
  Michelle: No. I think that's really helpful. So I I do remember this icebreaker from a year or so ago. And I remember the answer I gave. So I wanna give a different one.
• 36:12
  It's been a while. Yep.
• 36:14
  Filiberto: Yes please do that. And you're a different person than that too.
• 36:21
  Michelle: Last time I felt powerful.
• 36:23
  Filiberto: Yeah. And as as Michelle's thinking about the think that for yourselves. Y'all think about that for yourselves. Write it down for yourself as we're just kind of ruminating over the idea. But when was the last time you felt honestly powerful?
• 36:36
  And I did this once with a group of organizers. And one of the one of the people, she was like, I realized that I haven't felt powerful since first grade. Mhmm. And I was like, okay, that's hard. I but I need you to just understand that you have felt powerful before and you're powerful now and we're with you.
• 36:58
  So you learn a lot through this exercise sometimes. Yeah. Anyway, that's enough of my, you know, choke it up suck sucking up the clock. I don't know what I'm saying.
• 37:07
  Michelle: No. I came up with one.
• 37:08
  Filiberto: Okay. Good. You're good. What's up?
• 37:09
  Michelle: It's probably I don't think it's the last time I felt powerful, but it's just something
• 37:14
  Filiberto: Whatever comes to the surface. Yeah. Yeah.
• 37:16
  Michelle: That came to mind. The last place I worked had kinda you know, it had not been great, but it kinda devolved, like, in the last six months that I was there. And so and I you know, I've watched people in my life stick with jobs that were hostile, that were harmful. Because that's you know, we live in capitalism. Right?
• 37:42
  And so we need to know where our paycheck's coming from so we can afford to live and have shelter and eat. So
• 37:48
  Filiberto: And be alive.
• 37:49
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, I understand the I'll you know, I have to stay here until I can look for something better. Right now, the market really, really sucks. But but I had grown up with that and I kinda made a promise to myself that I would never let a job impact my health.
• 38:07
  Yeah. Whether that's like lack of health care coverage and like just, this is gonna be a lot of out of pocket for me to go to this doctor but I I need to. Or just, you know, the mental health or whatever of a job and once it's no longer healthy, I need to leave. And it got to that point where I needed to break up with like an abusive relationship with where I worked. As far as just like side punching, you know, being stabbed in the back by your colleagues.
• 38:39
  Filiberto: By the structure itself.
• 38:40
  Michelle: Yes.
• 38:41
  Filiberto: That kind of thing was encouraged all the time.
• 38:43
  Michelle: And I did not have a job lined up. But it was it was a good break. We had family visiting. So, it was a nice you know, I I have I had that privilege back then being a homeowner, having savings where I could take some time off. And I definitely use that time to kind of recover from the last, I would say, year, year and a half of that job.
• 39:05
  But I do again, not everyone's in that situation. Not everyone has that privilege. But I it feels powerful to put yourself of ahead your coworkers or just being employed. It's not great being unemployed, especially the way certain people treat you while you're going through that and not acknowledging the reasons you're there. But I was just really proud of myself for it's a very scary decision to make, jumping off a cliff.
• 39:42
  Even if you have savings, like not knowing when you'll be able to get another job. But just being able to choose myself over a paycheck, over the unknown, over what I might think of myself to leaving a job without one lined up in my mid career. But that was just really important to me to you can talk about your values, but you also need to live them. And it was really important for me to no longer work at a place that had become abusive, professed to be certain things, but is not those things. And it's really hard. We live in a system that doesn't encourage that.
• 40:28
  And I just it was important to me to live my values instead of just talk about them. So I would say that would be my answer.
• 40:36
  Filiberto: Absolutely. And we have, like, adjusted a lot. Like, we've changed our spending pretty dramatically. There's a lot of different adaptations that we've made so that, you know, making the right choice doesn't feel like doesn't always have to feel like a sacrifice. Yeah.
• 40:50
  And we've definitely changed our lifestyle, but it's not a sacrifice because we're living better. Yeah. We're definitely living better.
• 40:56
  Michelle: No. Yeah. I mean, it's you know, you take you take a pay cut, but the people you work with actually respect you. And you have boundaries. They have boundaries.
• 41:05
  Filiberto: Well, you respect yourself. Yeah. That's the big thing.
• 41:08
  Michelle: So it's it's a much better situation. Those those situations are still out there. You can you can still find them. But, yeah.
• 41:18
  Filiberto: Well, one of the things that when I was an investigative labor reporter, one of the hardest conversations I had with my sources that was unrelated to publication or quotes or anything is really identifying the fact and naming the fact that most of the time it was the reality was that they were in an abusive relationship with their employer.
• 41:36
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 41:36
  Filiberto: It wasn't just a bad job or a shitty job. It was a structural abusive relationship. And it was really hard for people to face that reality. But you need to face that reality or in order to recognize both the scale of the problem, the level of effort that you need to solve that problem, and the importance of confronting that problem. Again, that's not just a shitty job.
• 41:58
  This is a situation that's actually harmful for you, you and need to figure out how to get the fuck out of it in order to heal, in order to live your best life. So I think that's definitely relevant to it was an abusive relationship Yeah. For both of us. Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:12
  We gotta get out of it.
• 42:16
  That said, if you wanna sponsor this podcast, email info.
• 42:20
  Michelle: You and the sponsor plugs.
• 42:21
  Filiberto: And we got nextpod.org. Well, you know, you gotta start somewhere.
• 42:26
  Michelle: Yeah. No. Thanks. Thanks for listening, y'all.
• 42:29
  Filiberto: Enjoy this episode, and we'll get back to you soon. Alright. Have a good day, y'all. Bye.
• 42:38
  Michelle: Thanks for listening and building community with us. Make sure you're following us on Instagram at pod we got next, and subscribe at wegotnextpod.org.