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In Order to Change, People Must Choose Their Pain · Mental Health and the Mission of the Church

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: You can't choose your folks, your parents, your family, your early life experiences.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Then the collection of gifts and abilities that you have, you didn't create.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not responsible for the way that you are, that knife cuts both ways.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: You're not responsible for how great you are either.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: You may not be responsible for the way you are based on what we're talking about, but you are responsible for changing the way you are.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: People don't change when they see the light, they change when they feel the heat.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: Normally, it has to be more uncomfortable to stay the way you are than it is to change before you'll try to change.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, you have to be somewhere that's bad enough that you want to change.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Any substantial change you try to make in your life is gonna include being uncomfortable.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: So your your brain likes scripts, does not like to change them.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because learning anything new requires conscious thought and effort.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Conscious thought and effort is the most energy-consuming activity your brain does.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: So when you go to change, your brain doesn't help.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Explains why ultimate surrender to God is self-acceptance.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Chip also sheds light on lasting change, and in order for us to find it, we have to choose a season of pain.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And oh yeah, according to Chip, people don't change when they see the light, they change when they feel the heat.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's part three of Shades of Grace on the Mental Health and the Mission of the Church podcast.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: We hope in listening to these episodes, you'll be encouraged to find true love in God and go after your own mental health.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: We love you and thanks for listening.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do you feel about this and posturing the life decisions component in light of God's grace?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is sin, in my opinion, is choosing things outside of God's will that are just bad for us.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's probably not the fullest definition, but it's a given.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to do that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's a part of the human condition.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so there is a part of life decisions where it's like, yeah, but that's a that's a given.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's not something to beat yourself up about.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's even uh an entryway to deeper healing, but it's for sure a a given.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: What's the first part?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Let me say something there, because you you made me think of it when you talked about sin.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think we, you know, again, forgive me, I'm full of these corny little phrases.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think we need to put a new spin on sin.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: I do think sin with some things that the Bible is just in your face, finger in your face, crystal clear.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Some some is just pure obedience, and and you gotta figure it out.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: And and then figure out why that's harder for some and easier for others, and that gets into what we're talking about.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: But how I what I mean by by putting a new spin on sin is the word is defined as to fall short or miss the mark.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: So as not, listen to this now, so as not to get your portion of the inheritance.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Now think about that a minute.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: To fall short, meaning there's a there's an expectation of what you're capable of, and you don't come up to it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's falling short.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: To miss the mark so as not to get your share of your inheritance.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: What I mean is by that, sin can be being presented with an opportunity and not taking it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Not just doing something clearly wrong.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: I believe all of us fall short and miss the mark.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I find it helpful to think in those terms.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: I have an opportunity to speak and I just don't prepare.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: I fell short and missed the mark.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, most of the time in most of our lives, we're gonna be talking about much more gravely important and destructive things when we talk about sin.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I find it helpful because it opens the door to um to just look at it differently.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Why do I not struggle with with addiction?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I did drugs, but I don't know that I was really addicted.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just like to party.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: And there is a difference.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: I I didn't have to have it.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: I could go days, I could go whatever, but I liked it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so why why do some they just can't even touch it?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or it might ignite that addiction and off they go.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's biological things, I think there's everything we're talking about.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that sin, yeah, you are falling short and missing the mark.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I like to look at it, it's hurting you more than it's hurting anybody else, although it is hurting other people.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: It just affects the way you look at somebody and the way you work through it with them.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I believe virtually all sin cycles are built on meeting a right need the wrong way.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll talk more about that later.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's in the book, but meeting the right need the wrong way.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: And if you buy that theory, then you the way you fight sin is not head on, it's by figuring out what need is it meeting and finding a healthier way to meet that need.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Are you familiar with the movie Good Wheel Hunting?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen it?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do you love it?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of my favorite movies.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you and this this will be kind of a funny question and at the same time a real question?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Have you been in counseling situations where you've gone Robin Williams on wheel hunting and said it's not your fault?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and you really needed to press in on helping someone understand, hey, this is not your fault.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Often a lot, yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:21
  unknown: Dang.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: I have never in 45 years of counseling, I've never met a male or female, I've never met a victim of early life abuse that didn't at some level and in some way believe it was their fault.
• 6:37
  unknown: Gosh.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can't, I that doesn't compute.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people that when I describe my past issues with depression, it's just like, I just don't get it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't get it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't get that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: My theory, Joey, is that it it's it's frightening, terrifying to believe that there's anything that could happen in my life that I have no agency in, that I had no effect on.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, to believe that life can just happen and there's nothing I can do about it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's more painful, if that makes sense.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I haven't really figured that out.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: And if anybody listening has an explanation for that, I'd love to hear it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I've not, in reading, studying, whatever, I've I've not come across a good explanation for that.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: One of the most profound concepts in the book for me, and it's right in line with what we're talking about, that I'd love for you to unpack is the ultimate surrender to the sovereignty of God is self-acceptance.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean the world.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you take everything we just said, you can't choose your folks, your parents, your family, your early life experiences, then the collection of gifts and abilities that you have, um, you didn't create.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not responsible for the way that you are, that knife cuts both ways.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: You're not responsible for how messed up you are, but you're not responsible for how great you are either.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I like to say this just to soften it with some people.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: You may not be responsible for the way you are based on what we're talking about, but you are responsible for changing the way you are.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not like your choices and your effort and all doesn't come into play.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I have to bite my tongue occasionally because I'll see someone who they don't mean to, although some do, but not often, but occasionally, almost, well, not occasionally, a lot of times you'll be around somebody and they're talking about things that have happened in their life as if hard work, my gifts, my, you know, whatever.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: And and you think, okay, probably if I knew your family history, if I knew your story, probably if I knew your early life experiences, probably if I knew all the different things, or as many as I could, that make you the way you are, it would explain why you were able to pull that off.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you didn't create any of that that I just listed.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: I believe anything good that you or I would be tempted to take credit for, I believe everything's a gift.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: I believe the air we breathe is a gift.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: And anything about me that's good is a gift.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess maybe in some ways the bad is, in the sense of uh just keeps me human and reasonably humble, I hope.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: The the whole idea of the you know, the self-made man and all that, uh way more dangerous than helpful.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like the term, the terminology, your true self?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm I'm starting to try to understand it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, what it computes to right now and my novice understanding makes it easier for me to have self-acceptance, ultimate surrender to the sovereignty of God is self-acceptance because my true self is the original version of Joey.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Without any of the facade, without any of my trying, without any of my adding to it, it's what I was when I was inside of Barbara Svenson.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's my true self.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, other than spoken to existence.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, other than, you know, scripture talks about Jesus being the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say your true self is you and Jesus as one.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I said, you know, I'm not saying no to what you're saying, but really what I mean when I say that, the ultimate surrender sovereignty of God is your gender, your height, your hair color, your eyes, the your collection of of uh, boy, you you're really good with math, you know.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh, you just you just have a knack for that.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, you're you you can't sing a note.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's somewhere in there where you you gotta make peace with.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like God was making a cake and you're the cake, and he put certain ingredients in and left certain ones out.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And at some point, like I love this three-statement phrase know yourself like yourself, be yourself.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And what I mean, the second two don't work if you don't do the first one ruthlessly.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, really know yourself.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you you know, people tell their kids, well, you know, you can be anything you want to be.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the cruelest things you can say.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because here's the problem.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: If they believe you, and it looks like you're you mean it, that's what they're gonna measure themselves against.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: That your potential is limitless.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it isn't.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: We've got to create this safe environment for me to be what I am.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really good at a few things, I'm horrible at a few things, and I'm mediocre at some things.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you're gonna enjoy life a whole lot better if you get the proper help, because you you can't do it on your own.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can't have a you can't have an out accurate self-image, self, self, a sense of self without outside input.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: And decide, am I oh am I okay with that?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Certain phrases just make me uh like I because I can remember when I was learning them, like the ultimate surrender to the sovereignty of God is self-acceptance.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I want to bow.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: I want to, I want to bow to God's creative craftsmanship.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I'm speaking on this, I'll ask everybody, you know, how many of you believe God made you?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody raise their hand.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'll draw it out a little bit.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: How many of you believe?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you're saying that you believe you're the workmanship of God, and everybody raise their hand, you know, no hesitation, raise their hand.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll say, okay, I'm gonna ask you one more time.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: How many of you believe God made you?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: And all the hands would go up.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: I said, All right, how many of you have spent a lot of time criticizing his work?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's amazing, it never fails.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: The whole room just goes, Oh.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And now here's the deal.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Do I wish he'd put some things in that he didn't?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do I wish he'd taken out some things that he did that he put in?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I I trust him.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, as weird as this may sound to some people, um, I I like myself.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: I even on occasion have said to God, God, uh I like the way you made me.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes I'm reading a book and I'm just learning, and I'll just stop and say, God, I like the way you made me.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: I love that I'm hungry like this.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Or I'll I'll react well to a hurting person.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll afterwards I'll say, God, I I like the way you made me.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then something else will happen.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say, God, you couldn't have given me the ability to do that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like writing books.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Probably that's part of why I'm into the mini book thing.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because I just have I've been 20 years, people have been wanting me to write.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I just have not been successful at sitting my butt in a chair for hours and writing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like you're talking that you have a good self-esteem.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's but it's a gratitude-driven self-esteem.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know if I'd call it self-esteem.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think self-esteem is a good thing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do too.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I know and I know the way we would mean it, but I I understand how some people would mean it from a pride perspective.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm not a self-made man.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a God-made man.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean both in the sense of birth and everything else, but I also mean in the 50 years I've walked with him.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: The the the the making of me has continued.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: You talk about the first part of growth, and I I don't know if you use these words or not, but I think it fits it's more uh the the first part of growth and the most of the work is deconstructive in nature.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you unpack that?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you go to what we've been talking about, uh you go back to the parable of sower, by the roadside, uh rocky soil, thorns, and then good soil, pre-existing conditions.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, those are there before the word comes, before a truth comes, the truth of grace, the truth of God's love, the truth of your calling, or whatever.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And and the rocky soil and the thorns, uh, metaphorically, as Jesus shared it, um, they affect how that word lands on you and in you.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we got to do something about that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: And rocky soul to me would indicate hurt, pain.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: The heart becomes crusty, hard.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: The thorns, Jesus goes on to say the uh deceitfulness of riches, care for other things, lust for other things.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, cares of the world, deceitfulness of riches, and lust for other things.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: You could almost say internal and external, but even the uh thorns are kind of internal in the sense of they're there's there's where it's glaring, you're meeting a right need the wrong way.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: My point being, what determines how you gravitate toward a truth, grace, the one we've been talking about, is the condition of your heart from life up to this point.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Jeremiah 110 is an odd verse.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Most pastors, when I share it, love it, but their first reaction is that is a weird verse to use.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: I've never thought of it before.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: But in Jeremiah chapter 1, God's calling Jeremiah and he tells him, I've set you over nations and kingdoms.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then he says six things root up, pluck up, pull down, destroy, build and plant.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Root up, pluck up, pull down, destroy, build and plant.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Four of them are destructive.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Root out, pluck up, pull down, destroy.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Two of them, build and plant, are constructive.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: I've come to believe that that's the perfect picture of spiritual growth or growth as a Christian because two-thirds of what's gonna help get you free and keep you free is dealing with what's in there.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Father stuff, mother stuff, early life trauma, faulty belief systems.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And they're gonna continue to drive your thoughts, decisions, reactions, and behaviors until you get in there and and allow God to uh rewire them.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, with what we're learning about the brain, literally rewire them.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, the the one of the most important phases, stages of your the dynamics of growth are destructively dealing with what's already in you uh fear, anxiety, depression.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Chip, what what does it take for people to be motivated to change?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love for you to get into the whole choosing your pain concept, which I used with my daughter recently, and it was super helpful because she made a tough decision that was gonna cause her some temporary pain, but it was the better pain than not making that decision and letting time go by and just becoming complacent.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: What keeps people from being motivated to change?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, a lot of it is what we've been talking about, the uh family they were born into, et cetera.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's very possible they were born into a family that wasn't all that motivated.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so they haven't seen it modeled, they haven't seen the steps uh modeled, they haven't seen the passion displayed.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of ways to say it, some of them kinder than others, gentler than others, and I'll do all of the above.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just throw a few at you to to to kind of stir our thoughts in a certain direction.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: People don't change when they see the light, they change when they feel the heat.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, there's exceptions, but they are the exceptions, not the rule.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Normally it has to be more uncomfortable, more uncomfortable to stay the way you are than it is to change before you'll try to change.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, you have to be somewhere that's bad enough that you want to change.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it's relative with different people.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Another way to say it in this is this people change when they hurt enough, they have to.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: They learn enough, they want to, and they receive enough, they're able to.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'll say that again.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: People change when they heard enough, they have to.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: They learn enough, they want to.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they receive enough, they're able to.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: What do I mean by that?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, and and I think too, real quick, for a concrete example, and I the the easiest thing that I think could connect with someone is uh substance abuse.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll just use that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah for someone who's just like, I just I just can't stop.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm dependent on it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just I just need it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe it's illegal, maybe it's legal, maybe it's someone need wants to stop taking clonopin because they're so dependent on it and they know they're dependent on it, and they just they're just like, I can't, I can't live my life like this.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: You have to choose your pain.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to choose the pain and discomfort of stopping?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And because that's that's painful making that decision, or would you say the the worst pain of not doing anything about it?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and your life getting worse.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it that that's a little bit complicated because from that person's point of view, I'm gonna be feeling this pain for the rest of my life.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because they can't imagine it ever, the desire for it ever going away.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it feels like it's gonna be horrible to my last breath.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Let me use a different example.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's a good one, but let me use a different one.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Married couple, both of them probably Christians.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Remember the narrow and wide way we talked about.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh one of them's kind of on the narrow way, one of them's kind of on the broad way, the husband.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, bottom line is this lady, rock star, man.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: In church, things just going and flowing, you know, not perfect, but at prayer meetings, everything.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, just a solid contributor in every way.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, healthy, not legalistic or judgmental, but a really good lady.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: About every six months to a year, she'd come see me and say, Man, my husband just won't, just won't engage God.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a little storm going on here.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Won't engage God, won't engage the kids.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: He just kind of he just kind of there.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and won't engage with me.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, what do I do?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I'd encourage her and whatever.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said, about every six months or a year.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, about ten years in, he comes to me.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sitting in my office, my door's open.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: True story.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: True story.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: And uh there he is standing in my doorway, and he looks like he just lost his his favorite hunting dog.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I say, uh Dude, what's up?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, man, she's she's leaving me.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I say, Well, dude, I I wouldn't say his name, but dude, talk to me and he tells me a little bit.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the bottom line, what happened is over time over those 10 years, she went back, her kids grew up and left the house, the kind of the empty nest, and so she went back into the workforce and got a job.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, at her job, some dude started paying the kind of attention she'd always wanted.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, now here stands this dude, and he wants help because his wife's leaving him.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, to be honest with you, Joey, I wanted to beat the crap out of him.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, good woman.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: All she wanted was wake up, smell the coffee, and make some changes.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: He just chose not to.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: The pain wasn't enough.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now he's in pain.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the cool thing is, a little too late, he he came for counseling, he got better, he got really saved.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think eventually, now they did divorce, and uh, so it didn't end well for their marriage.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: But my point is, it it took some situation to get his attention.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now, is that always the case?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's really rare for it not to be.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Usually there's some kind of a situation that triggers um the desire.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because, and you you alluded to this, the choose your pain part.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've tried to think about exceptions to this, but any substantial change you try to make in your life is gonna entail or include being uncomfortable.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: If for no other reason, but the the whatever the thing is you're stuck in is just easy.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't mean to get too complicated, but the brain is lazy.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: The brain consumes a lot of energy and it wants to minimize the exertion of energy.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one of the ways it minimizes the exertion of energy, the use of energy, is it is it compacts repeated behaviors into a script.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, you get up, you brush your teeth a certain way, and I don't know about you, but I put I put a t-shirt on and I weigh myself, and I, you know, whatever, which is painful, by the way.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so your brain likes scripts, does not like to change them.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because change, learning anything new requires conscious thought and effort.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Conscious thought and effort is the most energy-consuming activity your brain does.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: So when you go to change, your brain doesn't help.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Literally, the way God created us makes change hard.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because I got my God.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know it.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because he created us to learn the right things, and they just they just become easy.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like I love one of the definitions of the word discipline that I like is doing something hard until it's easy.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: And what that means is doing something during that season, that stage, that you have to think about it and you have to stay on yourself and you know, whatever.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then it gets a little bit more gets easier, and and then one day you're like, wow, I didn't have to think about that.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what's happened is you've ingrained it in the pathways, the neurological pathways of your brain.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: And now that's that's how I react.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm trying to lose weight, and have been for years, and I get up and down, up and down, up and down, blah blah blah, blah blah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I've learned some things, cool things that don't make it any easier, but they're cool.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like I learned this you're gonna feel bad either way, overeating or undereating, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, overeating, you're gonna you're gonna feel crappy.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Undereating.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like that gummy, I really wanted another piece.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: So you're gonna feel bad either way.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you get to choose your pain.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want the pain of growth and change in a positive direction, or do you want the pain of regret?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: One's immediate, the other's future.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that's part of what makes it a problem.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: Your brain, yeah, you know, the what's that statement about a burden hands worth two in the bush?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably before I was born.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, probably.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Probably me too.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: But what it basically means is your brain would rather have one guaranteed thing now than two later.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Life is really all about choices.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Choice is power.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and choice involves almost always some form of discomfort, particularly when you want to change.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: You there's no way to change without experiencing some discomfort.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: There's just not.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Now you can minimize it, you can kind of redirect it somewhat.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: But if you think about anything you want to change, there's going to be some degree of comfort.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the payoff, hopefully, is gonna be way worth it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: But there's going to be discomfort.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to Mental Health and the Mission of the Church.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: If this episode was helpful, share it with someone who might need it.
• 28:15
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• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can also follow Chip on Instagram at Chipjud and find free resources for your spiritual and mental health journey at chipjud.com.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time on Mental Health and the Mission of the Church.