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The Beginning of Grief · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, guys. We are at the park with half of the children. Everyone is having a much better week than last week. Last week, we totally talked about parenting and how hard it is and how exhausting it is, except we wanna do it well because it matters. Right?
• 1:20
  It's important, and we wanna do it differently than what we had growing up. But sometimes, it's just hard. Even if you're doing things right and even if you're trying to do it well, it's just a lot. And when you have six kids, that's a lot. And when three of them are triplets, like all the same age, that's a whole different kind of hard than just three different kids.
• 1:44
  And when two of them are twins as in the same age, that's a different kind of than just having two kids. So having triplets and twins and then the sick child and all of their special things and six of them altogether, it's just so much. And so we so appreciate all of the emails and the support that we've gotten since sharing sort of the update on our family since school started. We shared that the other day before therapy. And so grateful just for everyone's encouragement that we are all trying to be good parents, and sometimes it's just that hard.
• 2:27
  I was gonna talk about what happened in therapy on Monday, but I don't really know a lot. So I can't really be very helpful on that. I know that we did try to read the notebook a little bit. She did try a little bit, but it was still hard even though they were good things that we were talking about. So I think we're pretty much just failing therapy.
• 2:49
  I don't know about that. We'll see, but we'll keep trying, and that's fine. Here's what you need to know, though, about therapy is that if you're going to use the notebook as a tool to communicate with each other and to communicate with a therapist, that's excellent. That is amazing. Definitely do that.
• 3:17
  But if you start to use that tool to avoid therapy and then say that on the podcast, you are gonna get so busted, and she's gonna know. I'm just telling you. You need to know. Yeah. You just can't get away with stuff.
• 3:38
  Also, it's just uncomfortable, not in a it's bad kind of way or in it's unsafe kind of way because it's absolutely good, and our therapist is absolutely safe. But it's in a new and shifting way where things are changing, and it's all about to go down. And so we've talked about that in the past, that therapy was changing a little bit, but we can definitely feel that and sense that. And I don't know how that's gonna change shape or what's going on. But there's also just a lot more of it because we also have the group that we're doing with the workbook and that support group, and that's kind of helpful.
• 4:23
  And then the family therapist for palliative care and now just our children and all their exciting behaviors, like, we're taking them to therapy. So now we see that therapist all the time because we have six children, and if they're rotating in a therapy so, like, we're there twice a week plus the family meeting. So two or three times a week, we have to go see the other therapist that's here. And that is getting trickier and trickier because she totally has figured out the DID and has approached it with the husband. And we're like, they're not talking to you, lady.
• 5:03
  They're not talking to you, lady. So we're still only avoiding therapy there with this new lady. And well, she's not new. We've had her for almost a year now, but only about the children and only focused on their issues and family issues. We've not talked to her about our issues at all, like zero.
• 5:26
  But she's the one who is seeing the husband for depression and did some EMDR with him, and he loved it. And so so that's been really helpful for him, but I wouldn't talk to nobody about nothing. The other thing that happened was John Mark's podcast. Oh my goodness. Talk about breaking your heart.
• 5:58
  If there is anyone who is innocent and sweet and deserving of all good things, it is him. And so to listen to his podcast, which we didn't even know about, by the way, but to hear the podcast about the nachos and the dog, oh, I'm not laughing because it's funny. Oh, it's a little bit funny. I'm laughing because it was so heartbreaking and because it was so difficult and because it was so sad. And if it has reached him to that degree, you know that that's how many other layers it's impacted because he's our one that, like, in TIS and keeps our spirits up, and he's so funny and so sweet and so good.
• 6:41
  So if he's struggling, you know that's how bad everyone else was struggling. So, yes, after therapy, leaving to make our drive home was really, really hard. We cried, like, sobbed, like, could not breathe almost for eight hours. So do you know what a panic attack feels like? Right?
• 7:07
  Except you know, how it, like, kind of comes in waves? Because, like, physiologically, it can't last for more than half an hour. And so even if it your anxiety stays up and even if it comes back in another wave, like, however you manage that, it at least comes in waves because your body can't maintain that. Right? This was like a panic attack, except it lasted, like, twenty eight hours.
• 7:31
  And instead of anxiety, it was this overwhelming sadness, like, grief, just heart wrenching grief. And who that was that Jean Marc was feeling and aware of and expressing and help connecting, I don't wanna talk about on the podcast directly, but we totally figured it out. Like, it took us an entire day plus some to figure out what was going on and why it was so big. And there were two layers that I can share right now anyway. I mean, there's more to it, of course.
• 8:10
  But there are two layers I can share right now. One was just the simple trigger, and he kind of alluded to it in his podcast, and that actually helped us. We didn't know about the podcast, actually. He did it by himself. But then the husband told us about it, and so we listened.
• 8:27
  And it was so heartbreaking, but it was more than that. You guys, we woke up the next morning in our backyard with someone else's dog. Okay. So Jean Marc slept in the backyard with some dog that he found, and that's when we woke up the next morning. So it was brutal that whole day and that whole night.
• 8:56
  It was obviously bad, but he found himself a dog and slept with it in the backyard, and that's what's going down at our house. So we did not steal the dog. We have sorted out the dog issue. We have returned the dogs to its owners. It was actually missing since Saturday, and we were out of the state on Saturday.
• 9:16
  So it was not our fault that the dog was missing. But we did find it, and so after sleeping with it overnight, we did return it. So a shout out to the family that, by default, let us sleep with their dog overnight. Oh, my life, you guys. This is so brutal.
• 9:36
  Okay. But what we figured out after putting all these pieces together with the podcast and the big emotional response that we had is part of it was just a trigger. So meaning that it felt like the weekend was so good and so powerful and so deep and so real that to leave that was a terrible thing. Except it's not really terrible because we have the husband and we have our family and we have our sweet little neighborhood and the parks where we walk and everything's actually okay. Like, now time really is safe.
• 10:23
  But what it felt like was we were leaving sort of this sacred space we have been able to share with our friends and where we could just be ourselves without any pressure of any roles other than being there to learn and to grow and safe with our friends, which was pretty special. So that was a good thing. But when the weekend was over and it was time to leave, there was something about having to leave that and go back home that triggered someone that that triggered one of the littles that Jean Marc helps take care of in regards to feeling like when you finally attach to a foster family and then you have to leave and go back to the parents. So, obviously, there's a lot of layers there and a big trigger. And then the other thing is that several times as an adult, when we sort of try to find our own substitute family, so to speak, for a variety of reasons, that never worked out.
• 11:33
  So even into adulthood, finding safe friends, finding safe families, finding safe people that we could be with, ever. No one has lasted long enough to show us that they were still there. Something's always happened. And then that even just recently happened with our other friends. Right?
• 11:54
  And so it was terrible timing, and it was so heartbreaking, and it was awful. But, actually, everything in now time is okay. We are safe. We are loved. Our friends are still there.
• 12:08
  We still take with us the things that we learned from the conference, and we still get to keep the friends that we made there and the friends we've been making since March, getting to know them and share with them and learning what it means to be safe, but also vulnerable and actually connect and the powerful healing that can happen in that way. So it was really good, but it triggered a specific few and a specific handful, and the feeling response was just so, so big. There were so many big feelings in response to that. So that is part of what happened, but I wanted to check-in quickly to say that we are okay. We're doing much better.
• 12:50
  Once we figured out what was going on, we were able to work through it differently. I think there's another layer that I don't wanna talk about right now that was part of that. But as we figured that out and got the help that we needed, we were able to respond to that piece too. So it was good in that we have the reassurance that now time is still safe. So maybe that's like NTISS because now time is still safe.
• 13:23
  Everything is actually okay. And in fact, today, we did really, really well because we slept all night so exhausted after the last couple of days and after the weekend. So we slept really, really well last night, and we got our work done this morning. We got to exercise and have a workout, and we spent time with our daughter before she went to school. We were able to walk her to school.
• 13:52
  That's how well we were doing and visit with the teachers there, which always feels good and supportive. Although sometimes we're too anxious to do that. We could even do that today. We were able to do some writing today, and we've got all the podcast interviews that we've done so far are edited, and they're scheduled to post. And we have more interviews lined up.
• 14:17
  So, like, we really worked hard today, and we're able to be very grounded and very productive and sort of back to our baseline. And funny enough, the same thing happened with the children. So once again, there's such a barometer of what's going on internally. They're like this external version of what's happening because now we are doing better, and they have also settled down on doing better. So we need to pay better attention to that as far as parenting and understanding sort of how those layers overlap and what's going on, but we're doing really, really well.
• 14:51
  The next chapter in the workbook that we're working through is about triggers specifically. So we're sort of entering the harder section of the book that we have spent the entire year avoiding. But we've done enough for the workbook to know that it is called avoiding, so at least there's starting to work on that chapter this week, and when we get through that, there'll be pieces maybe we're able to share. But mostly, I just wanted to let everyone know that even though we had a really hard couple of days, what was hard is actually that things were good. And so I don't know how that works or if there's a word for that for when things are so good, you don't know how to soak that in, or things are so good, you don't know how to process that, or things are so good, you don't know how to manage that or receive that or express that or believe that it's real, that it's not a trap or a trick or something being wrong.
• 16:05
  But I feel like maybe the point of what we learned is that we really are doing better. The decisions we've made in the last couple of weeks have been really good for us. Going to the conference was the right thing, and that we can parent well even when it's hard and just sort of feeling competent again maybe sort of helps with the crazy feeling because the last couple of days were really about not just feeling crazy, but there was this overwhelming grief. I wonder too if part of it is realizing that our parents are really dead. Like, that's been an issue for two years at least of some of the ones inside not understanding that the parents are really gone, but that's starting to sink in, which is a good thing and huge progress for us, huge breakthroughs, that some of the littles understand the parents are dead.
• 17:00
  But maybe with that has come some of the grief as well. So not just the trigger about foster care, but also the trigger maybe that grief itself triggered the other grief about the parents and realizing that they're actually gone. And everyone's sort of of to that in ways that we haven't before because this is a new kind of crying and grieving different than anything we've ever experienced before in therapy or otherwise. It was so intense. So maybe as I'm talking about it, I'm realizing maybe one of the layers was also just that piece of realizing that our parents are really gone.
• 17:44
  And so there's a finality in that. So even though it's good thing and it means that we're safe now and it means that we're free now, it also means that they're not ever gonna fix it. And it also means that it just is. And it also means that they never did take care of it or fix it or care. And so maybe that's hard too and just sort of a different piece of the grief, not just being sad about them being gone, but being sad about what we lost.
• 18:22
  That makes a lot of sense. So while the podcast after therapy that John Mark did when he was crying was so very distressing, Everything is actually okay. They were really big layers, and they were really intense layers, and it was absolutely very, very hard. But we will keep working through them with the therapist and in the notebook and even sharing on the podcast when it's appropriate and safe to do so. And I guess he felt that that was helpful.
• 18:54
  I know sometimes it's almost easier to talk about it on the podcast than have to talk about it directly, And so we're working on that as well. But those are big, big layers because to manage them, what we really had to do was work on this skill of being able to tolerate big feelings. And we had to sit with feelings that were that big and just experience them and stay with them and be present with them. We could not harm ourselves. We could not drink alcohol.
• 19:35
  We could not act out in any way or even really avoid what was happening because it was so big and so pervasive in our experience even though we all had different pieces of what was happening and how we felt about it. So it was kind of a big deal and absolutely very unpleasant, but it was good practice at trying to stay present and feel what we are feeling instead of escaping it or avoiding it. So we didn't like it at all. It didn't feel good at all, but we stayed with it, and we worked through it. And it took long time to pass, and I'm sure there's more layers that we'll have to go back through.
• 20:22
  But that was new. We've never been able to do that before. And so thank you for listening and supporting and your encouraging emails and for being there with us as we endure the experience of trying to heal, which sometimes feels as hard as what we've already been through in the first place. It was a lot. It was so hard, you guys.
• 20:52
  I can't even tell you. But I'm really proud of us because we sat with it and we stuck with it and we did not avoid it or act out on it. It just stayed there, and it was awful. And, really, that was maybe the first time that we've dealt with something that directly. So it was a really hard, like, thirty six hours, but we did pull through, and we are okay.
• 21:22
  And we're writing in the notebook, and we're taking care of ourselves, and we can contact the therapist if we need, and we have our friends helping us through it. But mostly, it was just really, really good practice at sitting with what is very hard and realizing why it's hard and what that means and how to help each other through that and navigate that. So that whole emotional regulation thing or tolerating your window of tolerance or whatever, I it was almost like our window was broken. Someone broke our window of tolerance. No.
• 22:04
  But the window of tolerance has been so tiny, and it's like we were able to hold it open long enough to, like, get a stick in there. You know, like an old house and you try to keep window up, and it won't stay up by itself, so you put a piece of wood in there to hold up the window. Like, we were able to get that in there, and now we can sort of handle more than we could before. And we know that when we get through to the other side, we're actually okay even when it's really, really hard in the moment. So I know it's not entirely coherent because it's still so fresh and we're still recovering, but it was a big deal for us, and I kinda needed to document that, which is why we didn't take that episode down, but also wanna document that we were able to make it through to the other side and everything is okay, and now time is still safe.
• 22:54
  And now time is still safe. And our friends are still there, and everything is still okay even when it's hard. It was good lessons for us. Unpleasant, did not like it. I'm not saying we're hotshot and that was a good time.
• 23:14
  It was not a good time. But everything is okay, and now time is still safe. Except I think now time is about to not be safe for my youngest daughter who has climbed too high, and I want to go get her down. But I know she is an independent and feisty spirit, and so I'm just gonna sit here until she looks at me or ask me because she does not wanna be interrupted when she can do something, but I think she's stuck. So I'm gonna sneak that direction and say, oh, yeah.
• 23:55
  She's looking at me. I'm on it. Are
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you stuck, baby? Did you climb so high? It's okay. It's okay. I gotcha.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: I gotcha.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: My baby.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: My baby. Watch your tubie. Watch your tubie.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: My baby. My baby. I love you. I love you.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: You can do this part. Climb, climb, climb. Yay. Uh-huh. Good job, baby.
• 24:39
  There you go. You're doing it. Are we good? I like how climbing.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: You did it, and I'm so proud of you. Now if we could all just parent ourselves so well. Yeah? How do we do that? Stay tuned.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsbeat.com. We'll see you there.