Latest / Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler / Canaries in Coal Mines with Therapist Lori Gottlieb

Transcript

Canaries in Coal Mines with Therapist Lori Gottlieb · Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi, Hi Catherine, and how are you, hi, Chelsea. I'm great.
0:04
Speaker 1: It's kind of freezing today. I'm kind of freezing saying
0:06
Speaker 1: it's a perfect time for me to go to Whistler.
0:10
Speaker 1: I'm going. No, I can stop me. I can't fucking
0:14
Speaker 1: wait to go skiing. Oh my gosh, how long do
0:16
Speaker 1: you stay up there? Well, this year is going to
0:18
Speaker 1: be a little different because I'm gonna come back to
0:20
Speaker 1: do some more podcasts and then I have some stand
0:23
Speaker 1: up dates up there. But all my Canadian dates are
0:26
Speaker 1: January through March, and then I have some Seattle in
0:29
Speaker 1: between February three and second i have Seattle in Portland,
0:32
Speaker 1: and but I'm going to stay up there for the
0:34
Speaker 1: majority of the winter time, and Joe Coy will be
0:38
Speaker 1: introduced to Whistler. I was gonna ask, will you go
0:40
Speaker 1: for the whole time or while he's on tour still too,
0:43
Speaker 1: so he will use that as his home base. Oh,
0:46
Speaker 1: I love that. This is great. Yeah, I can't wait
0:48
Speaker 1: for all my friends to come visit me up there
0:49
Speaker 1: now that we're not well, hopefully down through the thick
0:53
Speaker 1: of it. But who knows what the hell is on
0:54
Speaker 1: the horizon? Yeah, it was. It was actually like terrifying.
0:58
Speaker 1: In one of the ads that we recorded to day
1:00
Speaker 1: where they said, well, it's that time of the year.
1:01
Speaker 1: Whether those sniffles are you know, sniffles are COVID nineteen,
1:04
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, so it is just that time
1:06
Speaker 1: of the year now. Somebody said to me COVID will
1:09
Speaker 1: go about be going on for the next three to
1:11
Speaker 1: five years, and I was like, that sounds about right. Yeah, Well,
1:14
Speaker 1: I have some brighter news for you. A follow up
1:17
Speaker 1: from t who called in last season. She was on
1:22
Speaker 1: our episode Open to Happy Endings and she had had
1:25
Speaker 1: some sexual trauma and was dealing with that while she
1:28
Speaker 1: was with her current partner and having some some issues
1:31
Speaker 1: related to that. So we got ahold of her afterward
1:34
Speaker 1: and I gave her a recommendation for a therapist to
1:38
Speaker 1: see and this is what she said, Hi, Catherine, I
1:41
Speaker 1: just wanted to thank you again for your help in
1:42
Speaker 1: finding a therapist. I contacted Healthy Relationships b C and
1:47
Speaker 1: have found a therapist I connected with who's accommodating to
1:50
Speaker 1: my limited budget as a student. Today I had my
1:53
Speaker 1: first session of E. M. D R Therapy and it
1:56
Speaker 1: went really well and I'm so optimistic about the healing
1:58
Speaker 1: that is going to come from this. I can't believe
2:01
Speaker 1: this all came about because I happened to see Chelsea's
2:03
Speaker 1: Instagram story asking for questions and missions. Anyway, I wanted
2:08
Speaker 1: you and Chelsea to know how grateful I am for
2:10
Speaker 1: the opportunity to share my struggle and your help and
2:13
Speaker 1: encouragement and finding supports to start healing. Thanks again, t Oh,
2:18
Speaker 1: that's a great update. Thank you. I was doing that.
2:21
Speaker 1: I was so happy to get that email from her.
2:24
Speaker 1: And yeah, because it is, it's sort of it's one
2:27
Speaker 1: step at a time. You take those baby steps, you
2:29
Speaker 1: get started, and I think e M d R will
2:32
Speaker 1: be a really have you tried that I have? And
2:35
Speaker 1: you know who was just talking about that publicly with
2:36
Speaker 1: Sandy Bullock on the Red Table Talk. She was talking
2:39
Speaker 1: about e M d R. She had an intruder into
2:41
Speaker 1: her like come into her house and she had PTSD
2:45
Speaker 1: from that and that she did a lot of a
2:47
Speaker 1: M d R and she said it was so healing. Yeah,
2:50
Speaker 1: I think especially for any sort of physical trauma like
2:53
Speaker 1: that where it's someone invading your space or you know,
2:56
Speaker 1: as t had sexual trauma, I think it's so so helpful.
3:00
Speaker 1: So that actually leads us right into our guest today.
3:03
Speaker 1: Oh yes, it was also a therapist. Yeah, we have
3:05
Speaker 1: a real therapist. You guys, don't be jealous if you're
3:08
Speaker 1: not on this episode. Our guest today Lori Gottlieb, who
3:12
Speaker 1: is a psychotherapist and a New York Times bestselling author
3:16
Speaker 1: of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. That's the title
3:19
Speaker 1: of the book that I read, and it's sold over
3:21
Speaker 1: a million copies and it's currently being adapted as a
3:24
Speaker 1: television series and there's also a new workbook version of this.
3:29
Speaker 1: She is also the co host of the very popular
3:32
Speaker 1: Dear Therapist podcast. She writes a weekly column in advice
3:36
Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic called Deer Therapist, and her Ted
3:40
Speaker 1: Talk was one of the top ten most watched of
3:43
Speaker 1: the year. So please welcome Laurie Gottlieb. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
3:48
Speaker 1: how are you. I'm well? How are you? I'm well?
3:52
Speaker 1: Thank you. This is my co host, Catherine. Hello. Hi there, Hi,
3:57
Speaker 1: it's very nice to speak with you. First of all,
3:59
Speaker 1: congratulations on all of your success. Well, thank you. Yeah,
4:03
Speaker 1: it's nice, right, nice to be successful, it is. I
4:06
Speaker 1: can't I can't argue with that, especially when you are
4:09
Speaker 1: helping people while you're achieving that success, I would imagine
4:12
Speaker 1: that is an even greater victory. I came up across
4:16
Speaker 1: your book right after I think my book came out
4:19
Speaker 1: shortly before your book, and then I was reading your book,
4:21
Speaker 1: and then everyone was reading your book, and there were
4:24
Speaker 1: so many similarities from my therapy experience with my psychologist
4:30
Speaker 1: that I was able to relate to in your book
4:32
Speaker 1: and your book, that book, Maybe You Should talk To
4:34
Speaker 1: Someone is a collection of many couples and people that
4:40
Speaker 1: you worked with, right, Yeah, So basically in the book,
4:43
Speaker 1: I follow the lives of four of my patients as
4:46
Speaker 1: they go through various struggles, and then, uh, there's a
4:49
Speaker 1: fifth patient in the book, and the fifth patient is
4:51
Speaker 1: me as I go to my own therapist because I'm
4:54
Speaker 1: going through an unexpected breakup, and so you see kind
4:58
Speaker 1: of therapy with me as the therapist and me as
5:02
Speaker 1: the patient. And it was very insightful to see that
5:05
Speaker 1: because I guess as a therapist, I think a lot
5:07
Speaker 1: of people always forget we assume that therapists have all
5:11
Speaker 1: the answers. You know, that you guys are there to
5:13
Speaker 1: help us kind of navigate everything, and I think people
5:16
Speaker 1: can sometimes forget that you're a human being. As well
5:19
Speaker 1: and need your own guidance. Yeah. I mean I say
5:22
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the book that my most significant
5:24
Speaker 1: credential is that I'm a card carrying member of the
5:26
Speaker 1: human race. That I think, you know, I know what
5:27
Speaker 1: it's like to be a person in the world. And
5:29
Speaker 1: I think that there's this idea that when you go
5:32
Speaker 1: to a therapist, that they're like these perfectly put together people.
5:35
Speaker 1: And I think the other trope that people have of
5:37
Speaker 1: therapist is that they're like the hot mess, you know,
5:39
Speaker 1: like the person who's like like an in treatment, you know,
5:42
Speaker 1: where they're like breaking boundaries and having sex with their patients.
5:44
Speaker 1: And it's not like that. It just we are exactly
5:48
Speaker 1: like you, except that we're trained to help you deal
5:51
Speaker 1: with your struggles, and then we go to people who
5:53
Speaker 1: are trained to help us deal with our struggles. And
5:56
Speaker 1: do you find yourself as a professional, Do you find
5:59
Speaker 1: yourself or another outlet that you can kind of get
6:01
Speaker 1: that feedback from. Do you have a community of other
6:04
Speaker 1: therapists that you work with or meet with or anything
6:07
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, so, and maybe you should talk to someone.
6:09
Speaker 1: You get to see something that a lot of people
6:11
Speaker 1: don't realize, but most therapists have consultation groups. So every
6:15
Speaker 1: week we meet with a group of our colleagues and
6:17
Speaker 1: we go over our cases and so we talk about,
6:20
Speaker 1: you know, where we're stuck, or we want advice, or
6:22
Speaker 1: we want feedback. So it's not just us alone in
6:25
Speaker 1: a room with somebody. But if we really want, you know,
6:28
Speaker 1: to run by somebody else, we we have that option.
6:31
Speaker 1: And I think when it comes to our personal lives,
6:33
Speaker 1: you know, I think that I really think that therapy
6:36
Speaker 1: can be so valuable for people. And I'm not saying
6:38
Speaker 1: that because I'm a therapist. I'm saying that as a patient,
6:41
Speaker 1: because I feel like, you know, I talked in the
6:43
Speaker 1: book about the difference between idiot compassion and wise compassion.
6:47
Speaker 1: So we go to our friends with a problem and
6:49
Speaker 1: we're like, listen to what my partner did, or my
6:52
Speaker 1: boss did or my sister did, and we're like, yeah,
6:54
Speaker 1: they're wrong, You're right. You go girl, you know, because
6:57
Speaker 1: we think we're supporting them, but really, you know, when
7:00
Speaker 1: you listen to your friends over time, it's almost like
7:03
Speaker 1: you'll hear that maybe it's with a different person, or
7:05
Speaker 1: maybe it's even with the same person that they're sort
7:07
Speaker 1: of describing the same thing over and over, and the
7:09
Speaker 1: common denominator is them. It's kind of like if a
7:12
Speaker 1: fight breaks out in every bar you're going to, maybe
7:14
Speaker 1: it's you, but we do not say that to our friends.
7:18
Speaker 1: And so when you go to therapy, instead of getting
7:20
Speaker 1: idiot compassion, you get wise compassion where we hold up
7:24
Speaker 1: a mirror to you and we help you to see
7:26
Speaker 1: something about yourself that maybe you haven't been willing or
7:29
Speaker 1: able to see. And the word compassion is in there
7:32
Speaker 1: because it's done in a very compassionate way. But it's
7:34
Speaker 1: really important for us to see our own role in
7:37
Speaker 1: our own lives, and you know what we might be
7:40
Speaker 1: doing that is getting in our way. Yeah, I mean
7:43
Speaker 1: that was very clear to see with one of your patients,
7:45
Speaker 1: who I would describe as an asshole upon reading it.
7:48
Speaker 1: Obviously you use more careful language because you are a
7:51
Speaker 1: compassionate therapist, but you know this guy who was so
7:54
Speaker 1: clearly stuck in his own bullshit and his own narrative
7:58
Speaker 1: and just repeating the rep Titian of his of his
8:01
Speaker 1: behavior basically and not being able to see outside of yourself.
8:05
Speaker 1: And I think that is the gift of self awareness
8:08
Speaker 1: is pretty much the one tangible. Not the one tangible,
8:11
Speaker 1: but the most prominent tangible thing that I walked away
8:14
Speaker 1: from therapy with is the gift of self awareness. Well,
8:17
Speaker 1: that's right, And I think when you talk about him
8:19
Speaker 1: being an asshole, I think, you know, he was incredibly
8:22
Speaker 1: insulting and unlikable at the beginning of the book, but
8:25
Speaker 1: he becomes the person that I think most people like
8:28
Speaker 1: the most by the end of the book because once
8:30
Speaker 1: you see why he's acting that way, and I think sometimes,
8:33
Speaker 1: you know, we don't take the time to figure out, well,
8:35
Speaker 1: why is someone acting that way because they're speaking with
8:38
Speaker 1: their behaviors if they don't have the words, or something
8:41
Speaker 1: is so unspeakable, as there was something in his life
8:43
Speaker 1: without spoiling it, you know, if something is so unspeakable,
8:46
Speaker 1: we speak with our behavior. It comes out in other ways.
8:49
Speaker 1: So once he started talking about it, he started to
8:52
Speaker 1: change his behavior and and he becomes like incredibly lovable
8:57
Speaker 1: and somebody that that I think people are drawn toward. Yeah. Absolutely,
9:00
Speaker 1: I recognize a lot of myself and him too. That's
9:03
Speaker 1: why I feel so free to be able to call
9:05
Speaker 1: him an asshole, because that's what I was before I
9:07
Speaker 1: went to therapy. So this podcast. Well, I mean, I
9:10
Speaker 1: know you're good at giving advice obviously, so we're very
9:13
Speaker 1: excited to have a professional on the podcast because we
9:16
Speaker 1: are not. But I like to give advice anyway. We
9:18
Speaker 1: have people call in, you know, with life problems, we're
9:21
Speaker 1: going to give them just some feedback. So we're so
9:23
Speaker 1: happy to have you here today, Laurie, Thank you great, great,
9:26
Speaker 1: excited to do this. Yeah, well, before we get to
9:28
Speaker 1: all the fun stuff, we'll take a quick break. Okay,
9:31
Speaker 1: sounds good. We'll be right back. Our first call comes
9:36
Speaker 1: from Lizzie. She is a clinical psychologist. She says, Dear Chelsea,
9:42
Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time with my family. I've always
9:45
Speaker 1: felt a little different, and I've been labeled the emotional one.
9:48
Speaker 1: I've been a crier since I was a kid, and
9:50
Speaker 1: my mom could never handle it. Well, i just completed
9:53
Speaker 1: my doctorate in psychology, and I've also been really trying
9:56
Speaker 1: to put the work in for myself. I feel the
9:58
Speaker 1: older I get and the more I learn, the more
10:00
Speaker 1: I see my family's toxic traits, their tendency toward judgment
10:04
Speaker 1: and criticism, their old school ideas. For example, you're turning
10:08
Speaker 1: thirty soon, when are you going to get married and
10:10
Speaker 1: start having kids. I feel so frustrated because I wish
10:13
Speaker 1: they could see how damaging some of the things they
10:15
Speaker 1: say and do can be. But they're my family and
10:18
Speaker 1: I love them, and I'm just not sure I like
10:20
Speaker 1: them right now. I know I'm biased because I'm a
10:22
Speaker 1: new psychologist, but I'm also not trying to therapyze them.
10:26
Speaker 1: How do I reconcile this, How do I manage healthy
10:28
Speaker 1: relationships with people who are unwilling to look inward on themselves?
10:32
Speaker 1: And how do I communicate these things without sounding like
10:35
Speaker 1: the know it all family member who just got their
10:38
Speaker 1: doctorate in psychology. Lizzy, Hi, Lizzie, Hi, Lizzie. Well, so
10:44
Speaker 1: I'll just jump in if that's okay. So I was thinking,
10:49
Speaker 1: you know, when a lot of people grow up and say,
10:53
Speaker 1: my family said I was too sensitive, or my family
10:54
Speaker 1: said that I overreacted to things, or my family said
10:57
Speaker 1: I was just I couldn't just let things go, and
10:59
Speaker 1: I was very differ cult. Right, So we talk about
11:02
Speaker 1: the identified patient in the family, and they identified patient
11:05
Speaker 1: is the person who kind of holds all the symptoms
11:07
Speaker 1: for the family that nobody is talking about, and that
11:10
Speaker 1: person becomes like the canary in the coal mind. That
11:13
Speaker 1: person becomes first says, wait a minute, there's there's a
11:15
Speaker 1: problem here, right, So it's not that the other people
11:19
Speaker 1: in the family are bad people. It's that they never
11:21
Speaker 1: learned how to talk about emotions. They were they're very
11:25
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with emotions. So if your child starts having these
11:29
Speaker 1: normal human emotions and you're uncomfortable around them, you might
11:32
Speaker 1: say to your child, Oh, don't be so sensitive, Oh
11:35
Speaker 1: just let it go, right. And then sometimes these people
11:38
Speaker 1: grow up to become adults who are very depressed, and
11:41
Speaker 1: we have this saying, you know, before diagnosing someone with depression,
11:44
Speaker 1: make sure they aren't surrounded by assholes. Right. Um. I'm
11:48
Speaker 1: not saying, by the way, Lizzie, that your family is that,
11:50
Speaker 1: but I am saying that I think that maybe you
11:53
Speaker 1: you didn't learn a lot about what it means to
11:57
Speaker 1: validate your own feelings, right you're shaking your head now,
12:01
Speaker 1: and and then what it means to talk about that
12:03
Speaker 1: in a way where you're not accusing your family of anything,
12:07
Speaker 1: but you're you're holding your ground, And I think that's
12:11
Speaker 1: the first place to start with us. Yeah, I think
12:13
Speaker 1: you're exactly right with that, and that's right struggle. It
12:18
Speaker 1: feels like they don't hear me, hear what I'm trying
12:21
Speaker 1: to say? What are you trying to say? What would
12:23
Speaker 1: you like to say to them? Sometimes it's just basic things,
12:27
Speaker 1: like I said, when I feel like my views are
12:30
Speaker 1: different than there's, it's not okay for them to say
12:33
Speaker 1: some things like oh, why is there a black Annie?
12:37
Speaker 1: Or when I am upset and I expressed a feeling, well,
12:40
Speaker 1: yeah I feel sad about that. Oh, well, you're making excuses.
12:45
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, how is that an excuse? I'm sharing
12:49
Speaker 1: a feeling with you all, and that's an excuse for something.
12:53
Speaker 1: It just it's really hard. Yeah, I see this in
12:57
Speaker 1: couples a lot to I see between parents and children,
12:59
Speaker 1: but I all so see it in couples where people
13:01
Speaker 1: try to argue with somebody else's feeling, like, oh, why
13:05
Speaker 1: would you feel sad about that? Or don't feel sad
13:07
Speaker 1: about that? Like, you can't argue with the way someone feels.
13:11
Speaker 1: You might not agree with some content around that, but
13:15
Speaker 1: you can't argue with the fact that they feel the
13:17
Speaker 1: way they feel, because that's just nobody can own that
13:20
Speaker 1: except you. I think about parents who say to their
13:24
Speaker 1: kids are really uncomfortable with feelings, and their kid comes
13:26
Speaker 1: to them and says like, I'm really sad about what
13:29
Speaker 1: happened in school today, and the parents like, don't be sad.
13:31
Speaker 1: Let's go get some yogurt, you know, let's go get
13:33
Speaker 1: frozen yogurt, let's go to Disneyland, or you know, I'm
13:36
Speaker 1: really scared about this, and they're like, really, there's nothing
13:39
Speaker 1: to be afraid of. So they kind of try to
13:41
Speaker 1: talk you out of your feeling because they are uncomfortable
13:44
Speaker 1: with your feeling, and then the kids learns, oh, maybe
13:48
Speaker 1: it's not okay to feel sad or angry or anxious
13:51
Speaker 1: or whatever you happen to be feeling, right, So it
13:55
Speaker 1: sounds like you are afraid that if you were to
13:58
Speaker 1: say to them now, actually I do feel sad about this,
14:02
Speaker 1: that they would do what they just kind of brushed
14:05
Speaker 1: me off. Lizzie the politically correct one, Oh, we can't
14:08
Speaker 1: say that around her because she's sensitive and that will
14:11
Speaker 1: upset her or that will make her angry. And it's
14:15
Speaker 1: just like, I the problem here, right, You're not the problem,
14:19
Speaker 1: but the problem is that you feel like they get
14:22
Speaker 1: to make the rules and you have to follow them,
14:25
Speaker 1: as if you're still a child, but you're allowed to
14:28
Speaker 1: say whatever you want to say, and you're also allowed
14:31
Speaker 1: you get to choose whatever response you want to choose.
14:34
Speaker 1: So just because they label you something doesn't mean you
14:37
Speaker 1: have to accept it. It's like I always say this,
14:39
Speaker 1: like when parents send guilt to you know, I always say, like,
14:41
Speaker 1: just because she sends guilt doesn't mean you have to
14:43
Speaker 1: sign for the package, doesn't mean you have to accept delivery.
14:46
Speaker 1: So just because they're sending you this message doesn't mean
14:48
Speaker 1: you have to accept the message. You don't have to
14:50
Speaker 1: sign for the package. So you can say whatever you
14:53
Speaker 1: want to say, and you don't have to argue with
14:56
Speaker 1: them or try to convince them of something. But you
14:58
Speaker 1: can just tell them this is how I feel about it,
15:01
Speaker 1: and they can call you whatever they want. We just
15:03
Speaker 1: had on on my podcast, have this podcast called Dear Therapist,
15:05
Speaker 1: and this this woman was saying she talked to her brother,
15:08
Speaker 1: and her brother said to her, you know everything you're
15:11
Speaker 1: you're always so sensitive, you're so emotional, You're you know,
15:13
Speaker 1: everything is so emotional with you. And she said, yeah,
15:16
Speaker 1: I have emotions. That's my superpower. And it stopped her
15:21
Speaker 1: brother right, because all of a sudden. It was like
15:23
Speaker 1: it was a reframe of how they think about her.
15:25
Speaker 1: Brother might not change his mind on that conversation, but
15:29
Speaker 1: it's a different way. Instead of saying no, I'm not sensitive,
15:32
Speaker 1: it's own it, say I am sensitive. I like that
15:34
Speaker 1: about myself. I feel things. I'm not racist, right, um,
15:40
Speaker 1: And you might use different words for that, but to say, like,
15:43
Speaker 1: you know, I feel differently about this, I think about
15:45
Speaker 1: this differently. Yeah, I'm so scared of rocking the boat,
15:50
Speaker 1: of messing with the status quo. I'm so bad at confrontation.
15:55
Speaker 1: I'm so bad at standing up for myself, and I
15:57
Speaker 1: wish I were better at it, and I wish I
16:00
Speaker 1: were better at just saying yeah, being sensitive and having
16:03
Speaker 1: emotions is my superpower, because I think it is, but
16:07
Speaker 1: it feels like it gets shut down a lot. How
16:10
Speaker 1: do they feel about your career choice to be a
16:13
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist? Um, I mean they're there's really they're proud
16:17
Speaker 1: of me for what I'm doing and getting my doctorate,
16:20
Speaker 1: and they've been really supportive. But then sometimes they're like, oh,
16:24
Speaker 1: well the doctor over here. Oh if you guys aren't
16:27
Speaker 1: ever going to take me seriously, how am I supposed
16:29
Speaker 1: to take myself seriously. You need to take yourself seriously
16:34
Speaker 1: and then other people will take you seriously and or
16:37
Speaker 1: may or may not, But the point doesn't really matter.
16:39
Speaker 1: The point is you need to start taking yourself seriously. Yeah.
16:42
Speaker 1: And even my mom, she came to visit and she
16:45
Speaker 1: saw something that was gifted to me by a supervisor
16:48
Speaker 1: that said, oh, you did X, Y, and Z so well.
16:51
Speaker 1: And my mom was like, oh, you can do that.
16:54
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I believe it or not.
16:56
Speaker 1: I learned some stuff these last few years. It's like
17:00
Speaker 1: everyone's surprised. Yeah, and again it's that reframe because I'm sensitive,
17:04
Speaker 1: I function really well in the world. Yeah, I think
17:07
Speaker 1: you need to stand in your power a little bit
17:09
Speaker 1: more than you are. You know, give yourself a lot
17:11
Speaker 1: of credit. You went out there and got that doctorate,
17:13
Speaker 1: and just because your family doesn't understand what that means
17:16
Speaker 1: and what that entails, you have every right to explain
17:19
Speaker 1: it to them, to demonstrate, to show them how much
17:22
Speaker 1: knowledge that you've gleaned, that you're part of the future,
17:25
Speaker 1: not the past in terms of their old school ideas
17:29
Speaker 1: and you know, racial judgments and whatever. You know, you
17:32
Speaker 1: don't have to defend yourself you can talk about the
17:35
Speaker 1: way you feel in a way that isn't defensive. You
17:38
Speaker 1: can say, yeah, I know you guys feel that way,
17:40
Speaker 1: but that's that's old school thinking. I've been introduced to
17:42
Speaker 1: a new way of thinking. You know, I'm a newer generation.
17:46
Speaker 1: This is what I believe, this is what I know
17:48
Speaker 1: to be true. These are the things that I've learned
17:50
Speaker 1: and own it instead of looking at them for your value.
17:55
Speaker 1: That's not where you're going to get your value. Your
17:57
Speaker 1: value comes from within you. You went out in did
18:00
Speaker 1: these things. Your family didn't go and get their doctorate
18:02
Speaker 1: for you. You did that, and now you get to
18:04
Speaker 1: talk about it because it's another experience that you've added
18:07
Speaker 1: to your life, you know, to your shelf of experience
18:11
Speaker 1: in life. You know what I'm saying, Like, you get
18:13
Speaker 1: to talk about all of your experiences because it's not
18:16
Speaker 1: anything that they've had. So yeah, I understand that people
18:20
Speaker 1: have problems with confrontation, but family gets very stuck in
18:23
Speaker 1: patterns of behavior, and who better to change that pattern
18:26
Speaker 1: of behavior than somebody who just got their doctorate in
18:29
Speaker 1: one of the social sciences. It's so important what you're
18:32
Speaker 1: doing and the exploration that you've done so you have
18:35
Speaker 1: everything to be proud of. And I think if you
18:37
Speaker 1: just exercise that muscle a little bit more, especially in
18:41
Speaker 1: your family dynamic, you'll be surprised the things that come
18:44
Speaker 1: out of your mouth in the way that you feel
18:45
Speaker 1: about yourself. Families try to create a system that that
18:49
Speaker 1: stays in homeostasis, meaning like they don't want any one
18:53
Speaker 1: piece to change, right, So it's kind of like, oh,
18:56
Speaker 1: if one person changes and doesn't, let's say it at you.
18:59
Speaker 1: There's a difference between sensitivity and reactivity. So it sounds like,
19:02
Speaker 1: right now, you're very reactive. So and that's different from
19:06
Speaker 1: the power that you have of being sensitive. And so
19:08
Speaker 1: if you are less reactive with them, if you try
19:12
Speaker 1: less to gain their approval, if you try less to
19:14
Speaker 1: kind of convince them of something, but you still stand
19:17
Speaker 1: in your own place, that's going to throw them off.
19:20
Speaker 1: It's kind of like people do a dance with each other,
19:22
Speaker 1: and if one person changes their dance steps, then the
19:24
Speaker 1: other person is either going to fall on the dance
19:26
Speaker 1: floor or they're going to have to adjust their dance
19:28
Speaker 1: steps too. That's what's gonna happen with your family when
19:30
Speaker 1: you react differently to them. And so you're not so
19:33
Speaker 1: much the child trying to get their approval, but you're
19:36
Speaker 1: the adult almost their teacher, right but not. You're not
19:39
Speaker 1: teaching them in an overt way. You're just saying, I
19:42
Speaker 1: know who I am, this is what I believe, and
19:44
Speaker 1: you're going to stop reacting to them in that way
19:46
Speaker 1: of like, please don't call me that, Please don't tell
19:49
Speaker 1: me that that's not true. Right, Just you know how
19:52
Speaker 1: you feel, you know what you believe, and you can
19:54
Speaker 1: say it and not be reactive if they have a
19:56
Speaker 1: different way of thinking about it. Yeah, thank you. It's
20:00
Speaker 1: hard to communicate sometimes with people when they feel like
20:03
Speaker 1: when it feels like they don't want to listen, trying
20:05
Speaker 1: to figure out when is the right time to say
20:08
Speaker 1: something or when is the right time too. It's not
20:11
Speaker 1: that they don't want to hear it's that they're afraid
20:13
Speaker 1: to hear it, because you, Lizzie, are a reminder that
20:16
Speaker 1: emotions exist, and they are terrified of emotions. They are
20:21
Speaker 1: terrified of the kind of things that you think about
20:23
Speaker 1: that that you feel. They feel them too, but they
20:28
Speaker 1: find other ways to kind of push them out, They
20:30
Speaker 1: numb them out, right, And so for you to come
20:34
Speaker 1: forward with these feelings and they have to look at
20:36
Speaker 1: feelings right away, and that triggers feelings in them and
20:39
Speaker 1: then they get terrified. So it's not personal to you,
20:43
Speaker 1: it's that you are just a symbol of emotions to them,
20:45
Speaker 1: and they get very afraid of emotions, yes, very afraid
20:49
Speaker 1: of crying in tears and feeling yeah. Yeah, I mean
20:55
Speaker 1: a perfect example of them bringing up the Black Annie.
20:58
Speaker 1: Like a perfect response would be, like, I think it's
21:00
Speaker 1: a great don't what's your issue with having a black
21:03
Speaker 1: woman have the opportunity to star in this classic film
21:07
Speaker 1: that everybody knows about. Why why would you have a
21:10
Speaker 1: problem with that? Or I think it's wonderful, Like I
21:13
Speaker 1: think it's so wonderful that a black woman has an opportunity,
21:16
Speaker 1: that this isn't just now a white story, that we're
21:18
Speaker 1: opening this up so that everybody can participate in this
21:21
Speaker 1: and that that this this issue, and that the crux
21:24
Speaker 1: of that movie is something that every little girl has seen.
21:29
Speaker 1: Why not have that be somebody that a small black
21:33
Speaker 1: girl can relate to more than as a white person
21:35
Speaker 1: starring in it. You know, there's so many avenues to
21:38
Speaker 1: do it without the defensiveness, without the just to say,
21:41
Speaker 1: I'm proud of that. I'm proud that Annie has a
21:43
Speaker 1: black cast now and that there's a black Annie like
21:45
Speaker 1: that means to me progress is being made and black
21:48
Speaker 1: people are being representative in a more fair way. Yeah,
21:51
Speaker 1: I think I need to get better at taking myself
21:53
Speaker 1: more seriously so they take me more seriously and so
21:57
Speaker 1: I can convey those things. It sounds like you kind
22:01
Speaker 1: of lose yourself around them. Yeah, you know, it's almost
22:04
Speaker 1: like I think sometimes we have these stories that we
22:06
Speaker 1: tell ourselves about ourselves that were our roles in the family.
22:09
Speaker 1: And you just said what your role was, like the
22:11
Speaker 1: silly little girl, right, And it's almost like wearing clothes
22:14
Speaker 1: that don't fit anymore, Like you're still walking around in
22:17
Speaker 1: those childhood clothes, but they don't fit anymore. They don't
22:19
Speaker 1: fit who you are. They didn't fit who you are then,
22:21
Speaker 1: but you didn't know how to articulate that. That's why
22:25
Speaker 1: your mother said, oh, really you do all those things
22:27
Speaker 1: when she saw that, because I think I think that
22:29
Speaker 1: it's hard because you haven't accepted that you are not
22:34
Speaker 1: that role that was assigned to you in the family,
22:37
Speaker 1: and so it's really important for you to get out
22:39
Speaker 1: of that role and to take on a new role,
22:41
Speaker 1: not just in your family, but in your life. That
22:43
Speaker 1: role is going to follow you in relationships, in your
22:46
Speaker 1: professional world, is going to follow you everywhere unless you
22:49
Speaker 1: start redefining your role. Yes, exactly, it's only with my family,
22:53
Speaker 1: I worry. I don't really care what other people think.
22:56
Speaker 1: It's just I don't know why it's so hard with family. Well,
22:59
Speaker 1: your family's done a number on you. You know, your
23:01
Speaker 1: family dynamic has probably just had an impact on you,
23:03
Speaker 1: And obviously it has, because you know you don't. I
23:06
Speaker 1: was just thinking while you were talking, do I ever
23:08
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable bringing anything up to my family? And and
23:11
Speaker 1: I'm the emotional one in my family for sure, and
23:14
Speaker 1: I don't when I talk they listen because I've never
23:18
Speaker 1: ever regarded their opinion as more important than my own.
23:23
Speaker 1: So maybe if you can think about it that way,
23:26
Speaker 1: you know you you are as important as you think
23:28
Speaker 1: you are, and you are valid and your feelings should
23:31
Speaker 1: be validated. So I think as soon as you just
23:34
Speaker 1: start exercising that muscle a little bit more, you're going
23:36
Speaker 1: to realize how much more easily it will come to you. Yes, yeah,
23:42
Speaker 1: I need to get better at practicing that well, you will.
23:45
Speaker 1: You will start and you will just make a little step,
23:49
Speaker 1: but baby step in the right direction. That's usually all
23:51
Speaker 1: it takes is one step, and then there's a domino effect,
23:53
Speaker 1: you know, of a new habit and you know, bodily,
23:57
Speaker 1: something I do when I'm on stage performing or when
23:59
Speaker 1: I'm nervous, or I just kind of really try to
24:01
Speaker 1: try to center myself, Like if that kind of interaction
24:04
Speaker 1: with your family makes you nervous and you're going to
24:06
Speaker 1: say something to stand up for what you believe in,
24:08
Speaker 1: or just try to get your body like think about
24:11
Speaker 1: tightening your your abs, your muscles and just having a
24:14
Speaker 1: center of gravity so that you're solid and that you're
24:16
Speaker 1: on solid footing, and just think about I'm strong, I'm okay,
24:20
Speaker 1: I'm allowed to say how I feel. I'm allowed to
24:22
Speaker 1: say these things without getting flustered or getting too scared.
24:26
Speaker 1: You know, stand in your own body and be aware
24:28
Speaker 1: of your body, and just think about the fact that
24:31
Speaker 1: you've walked a long way to get where you are,
24:34
Speaker 1: and you did the work and you deserve an opinion.
24:36
Speaker 1: There are a lot of voices in your head that
24:38
Speaker 1: aren't yours, but we all have this right and I
24:41
Speaker 1: think that's why a lot of us are so unkind
24:43
Speaker 1: to ourselves, and we don't even realize it. You know,
24:45
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll say to people, like, you know,
24:47
Speaker 1: who's the person that you talked to most in the
24:49
Speaker 1: course of your life. And they might say, it's my
24:51
Speaker 1: mother or my partner, or my sister or my best friend.
24:54
Speaker 1: But actually the person that we talked to most in
24:56
Speaker 1: the course of our lives is ourselves. And what we
24:58
Speaker 1: say to ourselves isn't always kind or true or useful.
25:01
Speaker 1: And so I had this therapy client and I said
25:04
Speaker 1: to her, listen, I want you to go home, and
25:05
Speaker 1: I want you to write down everything you say to
25:08
Speaker 1: yourself over the course of a week and come back
25:09
Speaker 1: and let's talk about it. And she came back and
25:12
Speaker 1: she started crying, and she said, I am such a
25:14
Speaker 1: bullied to myself. I had no idea. You know, that
25:17
Speaker 1: voice that was her parents voice, like you have your
25:19
Speaker 1: parents voices and your your mom's voice in your head
25:21
Speaker 1: or family's voice. And there were things like, you know,
25:24
Speaker 1: she was typing an email and she made a typo
25:26
Speaker 1: and she said to herself, you're so stupid, right, that's
25:29
Speaker 1: not her voice. That was someone else's voice. She passed
25:32
Speaker 1: herself for reflection in the mirror, and she said, oh,
25:34
Speaker 1: you look terrible today, not her voice. So I think
25:38
Speaker 1: it might be a really good exercise for you to
25:39
Speaker 1: really listen for that voice and write down what that
25:42
Speaker 1: voice is saying, and then to distinguish is that my
25:45
Speaker 1: voice or is that somebody else's voice? Because I think
25:47
Speaker 1: you know what your voice is, but I think you
25:50
Speaker 1: start to it gets very very quiet around all the
25:54
Speaker 1: noise of the other voices that are rattling around in
25:57
Speaker 1: your head, and I think you really need to start
25:59
Speaker 1: writing some of this down to really become more aware
26:02
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. It's like, I'm so worried about upsetting
26:05
Speaker 1: everybody if I express what I want or think or
26:09
Speaker 1: feel whatever it might be. But that's not fair to
26:12
Speaker 1: me anymore for ever. No, And what you're really doing
26:16
Speaker 1: is instead of you know, you're so worried about disappointing them,
26:18
Speaker 1: but you're really disappointing yourself. And at the end of
26:22
Speaker 1: the day, I think that's really dangerous. Yeah, so that's
26:26
Speaker 1: why I wrote it. Yeah, Well, thanks for calling in, Lizzie. Yeah, Lizzie,
26:31
Speaker 1: did you feel like you've got some good advice that
26:33
Speaker 1: you can work off of. Yeah, I'm thank you for
26:37
Speaker 1: taking my call. It's really been awesome and I can't
26:41
Speaker 1: believe I got to talk to you all. And Laura
26:43
Speaker 1: Golli by the universe is so weird. I was buying
26:46
Speaker 1: a gift for somebody at the book store the other
26:49
Speaker 1: day and your book was like facing out, Maybe you
26:52
Speaker 1: should talk to something, And I looked at the title
26:55
Speaker 1: and I thought, yeah, I really need to and well
27:00
Speaker 1: do you Well, I hope that this is helpful for you,
27:03
Speaker 1: at least it gives you a start. Yeah, thank you, guys.
27:07
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time today. Good and Leslie
27:10
Speaker 1: follow up with us. Let us know how it works
27:12
Speaker 1: out with your family and if anything interesting happens, Oh yeah,
27:15
Speaker 1: I'm sure, take care. I yeah. I mean, how do
27:21
Speaker 1: you get out of old family dynamics? I mean, what
27:24
Speaker 1: do you do, Laurie when you have a family like that,
27:27
Speaker 1: or like any family that is stuck in a like
27:29
Speaker 1: how do you change the dynamic? Yeah? I think it's
27:33
Speaker 1: less about changing them and really taking ownership of your
27:36
Speaker 1: own life and realizing that you're an adult with agency
27:39
Speaker 1: and you have choices. So many people feel like they're
27:42
Speaker 1: trapped by their families that they feel like, you know, well,
27:45
Speaker 1: this is what this person always does, and then I'm helpless.
27:48
Speaker 1: It's like, you're not helpless. You have lots of choices
27:50
Speaker 1: in terms of how you respond. So you can't control
27:54
Speaker 1: what they do, but you can control what you do.
27:57
Speaker 1: And if the old pattern of responding is not king,
28:00
Speaker 1: it's not effective. And and and by the way, we
28:02
Speaker 1: develop these patterns because as children, we had to find
28:06
Speaker 1: creative ways to manage with family members who maybe couldn't
28:09
Speaker 1: see us in the way that we needed to be seen. Right. Um,
28:13
Speaker 1: But as we get older, we find that those ways
28:16
Speaker 1: of protecting ourselves in the past don't protect ourselves as
28:19
Speaker 1: adults because we have so much freedom now that we
28:22
Speaker 1: have many more options and we're just not aware of
28:24
Speaker 1: the options because we didn't know about them. We didn't
28:27
Speaker 1: learn about them. And I think that's what therapy can
28:29
Speaker 1: be really helpful for people is to learn what are
28:31
Speaker 1: these options. I can respond in a different way, I
28:34
Speaker 1: can set boundaries, I can do all these things. What
28:36
Speaker 1: does that look like? And that's where I think it
28:39
Speaker 1: comes in handy again, that wise compassion versus the idiot
28:42
Speaker 1: compassion of what our friends say, not that our friends
28:44
Speaker 1: aren't helpful, but I think our friends don't help us
28:46
Speaker 1: to really go to that deeper place. Right Well, our
28:51
Speaker 1: next call comes from Taylor. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've
28:56
Speaker 1: been with my partner for eight years. We laugh, we
28:58
Speaker 1: care for each other, we have common interests. He's truly
29:01
Speaker 1: my best friend. About three years ago, we stopped being
29:05
Speaker 1: intimate with each other. After the first year of suppressing
29:08
Speaker 1: my needs, I came to him honestly and told him
29:10
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be in a sexless relationship anymore.
29:13
Speaker 1: Then he confided in me and said he has always
29:15
Speaker 1: had this problem with relationships. The conversation evolved, and finally
29:18
Speaker 1: he told me he had childhood trauma that prevents him
29:21
Speaker 1: from having healthy intimate relationship. So what do we do
29:24
Speaker 1: while our relationship is in turmoil? Buy a house together?
29:27
Speaker 1: Of course, another year goes by. I decided I'm going
29:30
Speaker 1: to talk with therapists and learn how to uncouple. Then
29:33
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, all my problems seemed so small. As the
29:36
Speaker 1: world was shutting down, people losing lives and jobs. I
29:39
Speaker 1: decided I should be grateful I have someone who loves
29:41
Speaker 1: me to go through this pandemic. Our relationship barely survived
29:45
Speaker 1: the pandemic. We decided it's time to finally get a
29:48
Speaker 1: couple's therapist. We had a blow up and after the
29:50
Speaker 1: first fifteen minutes, the therapists separated us. He recommended we
29:54
Speaker 1: both see our own therapist to work on stuff separately.
29:57
Speaker 1: My partner started working one on one with the original therapist.
30:00
Speaker 1: I was supposed to get a recommendation. However that never happened.
30:03
Speaker 1: Thank goodness for this podcast. I have seen huge improvement
30:07
Speaker 1: in his behavior and our relationship has been much better
30:09
Speaker 1: since he started working on his issues. However, we still
30:12
Speaker 1: don't have sex. Now it's been so long, I feel
30:15
Speaker 1: like I don't even know how to put the moves on. Also,
30:18
Speaker 1: knowing what I know now about his childhood, I almost
30:21
Speaker 1: feel inappropriate wanting this need of mine to be met.
30:24
Speaker 1: What advice can you give me for getting back in
30:26
Speaker 1: the bedroom with my bow Taylor? Wow? Well, first of all,
30:30
Speaker 1: what I what I was hearing originally was a lot
30:33
Speaker 1: of avoidance. Um, she said, you know, after a year
30:36
Speaker 1: of this, it's like, wait a minute, you didn't have
30:39
Speaker 1: sex for a year and it took you a year
30:41
Speaker 1: to talk about it, and I think, you know, I'm
30:44
Speaker 1: really glad that they decided to go to therapy, but
30:48
Speaker 1: it does seem a little strange that he's seeing the
30:51
Speaker 1: original therapist that they went to for couples, and she's
30:54
Speaker 1: sounds like not maybe going to therapy because yes, these
30:59
Speaker 1: are individual issues, but it affects the couple, and I
31:02
Speaker 1: think it's really important for both people to have somebody
31:05
Speaker 1: to understand this better with. They have two things going on.
31:09
Speaker 1: One is that they need to figure out what is
31:11
Speaker 1: the day to day of this relationship right now as
31:14
Speaker 1: these things are happening, what are they learning about themselves
31:16
Speaker 1: and what are they learning about each other? But then
31:18
Speaker 1: the other question I think she has for herself is, yes,
31:21
Speaker 1: he has this trauma, Yes he brings us to the relationship.
31:24
Speaker 1: Is this something that she is signing up for? Yeah,
31:29
Speaker 1: and we have Taylor with us. She and I actually
31:31
Speaker 1: unpacked a few of those things on our original call
31:34
Speaker 1: together as we sort of explored this question. And I know, Taylor,
31:37
Speaker 1: you mentioned that kind of your day to day feels
31:39
Speaker 1: a little bit like roommates. Correct. Yeah, we're definitely just
31:43
Speaker 1: in this like dale platonic state. I would say, yeah,
31:48
Speaker 1: so are you going to therapy too right now or
31:51
Speaker 1: is just he going to therapy. No, therapy is currently
31:55
Speaker 1: happening right now for either of you. Correct, Okay? And
31:59
Speaker 1: why did he stop going to therapy? So I was
32:02
Speaker 1: told like his therapist went on vacation and then just
32:06
Speaker 1: never reached back out after vacation, and then he never
32:13
Speaker 1: followed up with him either. And did you follow up
32:17
Speaker 1: with your boyfriend and ask him why he didn't follow up?
32:22
Speaker 1: I think a big part of it for him was
32:25
Speaker 1: it was talk therapy, which I could tell was like
32:27
Speaker 1: good for him, but he wanted something that was more
32:30
Speaker 1: like action based, Like he started looking into micro dose
32:34
Speaker 1: thing and like maybe getting on some sort of medication.
32:37
Speaker 1: He just felt like keeping talking about it wasn't really helping.
32:42
Speaker 1: And so since he wanted to try a different approach,
32:45
Speaker 1: did he do anything proactive to pursue that. No? Right, So,
32:51
Speaker 1: so that's the thing, So he doesn't want to just
32:53
Speaker 1: talk about it, but actually he's just talking about it,
32:56
Speaker 1: even if he's not going to a therapist. He's just
32:58
Speaker 1: talking to himself about it. You know, well, maybe I
33:00
Speaker 1: should do this, or maybe I should do that, but
33:02
Speaker 1: he's not. It's it's ironic that he wants some kind
33:04
Speaker 1: of action, but he's not willing to sort of take action,
33:07
Speaker 1: even though he has ideas about how he might want
33:09
Speaker 1: to take action. Yes, that's a very good point. I
33:13
Speaker 1: wonder about you two, Taylor. You're not going to therapy either,
33:17
Speaker 1: And this sounds like a really difficult situation. And it's
33:21
Speaker 1: been going on for quite a long time. Why do
33:23
Speaker 1: you think you haven't gone to talk to somebody about this?
33:26
Speaker 1: I guess I feel guilty for feeling that it's like
33:32
Speaker 1: somehow something bad that's happened to me, when it really
33:36
Speaker 1: isn't something that's happened to me. It's just something that
33:39
Speaker 1: I am have exposure to because of who I'm in
33:43
Speaker 1: a relationship with. So who you're in a relationship with
33:47
Speaker 1: is happening to you, right, You're acting like this this
33:51
Speaker 1: is his issue and and that and that you're not
33:55
Speaker 1: allowed to feel anything about it because he's the one
33:58
Speaker 1: who had the trauma. He's the one who struggle. He's
34:00
Speaker 1: the one who's suffering, But you're suffering too. It's almost
34:03
Speaker 1: like I I see this a lot. We had someone
34:05
Speaker 1: on our podcast where she was this young couple and
34:08
Speaker 1: she was her husband had this chronic illness and she
34:10
Speaker 1: was taking care of him, and she said, I don't
34:12
Speaker 1: feel like I can really talk about how this is
34:14
Speaker 1: affecting me, because he's the one who's sick, right, He's
34:18
Speaker 1: the one who sometimes is in pain. He's the one
34:20
Speaker 1: who has to deal with the illness, and I don't
34:22
Speaker 1: really have the right to complain about anything. And we
34:25
Speaker 1: see that so often when somebody seems like they're the
34:28
Speaker 1: one struggling more and the other person feels like, well,
34:32
Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of compassion for what
34:33
Speaker 1: they're going through, and so I'm going to be the
34:36
Speaker 1: person who stands by their side, but I'm I really
34:38
Speaker 1: my feelings. It's sort of like the hierarchy of pain, right,
34:41
Speaker 1: we make this up in our heads, like this hierarchy
34:44
Speaker 1: of pain, that his pain is worse than mine, so
34:46
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to feel mine. We do this all
34:50
Speaker 1: the time, you know, with our with our friends, with
34:52
Speaker 1: our families, you know, like whose pain gets too gets
34:55
Speaker 1: to be aired, and then it's almost like a contest.
34:58
Speaker 1: But pain is not an test. It's not a hierarchy.
35:01
Speaker 1: Pain is pain. And so if you're struggling and it
35:04
Speaker 1: sounds like you are, by the way, anybody would be
35:08
Speaker 1: having lots of feelings about what's going on. It's a
35:10
Speaker 1: really challenging situation. You need a place to go as
35:14
Speaker 1: well to talk about what's going on for you. It
35:16
Speaker 1: will also help you not only talk about what's going
35:18
Speaker 1: on with you, but it will help you to communicate
35:21
Speaker 1: with him about what's going on between the two of you,
35:23
Speaker 1: because it sounds like the two of you don't really
35:25
Speaker 1: know how to communicate. I feel that's accurate. The guy
35:30
Speaker 1: that we started to talk to originally, he gave us
35:33
Speaker 1: like these handouts and they were really super helpful. And
35:37
Speaker 1: because we were in the moment of therapy, it was
35:40
Speaker 1: easy to like say, oh, hey, let's use that worksheet
35:43
Speaker 1: around this listener speaker moment because we were in it,
35:49
Speaker 1: and now that we're not in it, it's like, oh, yeah,
35:52
Speaker 1: remember that thing we did over the summertime, Like, let's
35:55
Speaker 1: try that again. I don't I don't know. I guess
35:57
Speaker 1: I don't really do a good job of like speaking
35:59
Speaker 1: up for myself and my needs, and so I mean,
36:02
Speaker 1: I guess that's also how I've probably gotten to this point. Yeah,
36:06
Speaker 1: And that's why I think you'll you would get a
36:08
Speaker 1: lot of tools out of going to talk to someone.
36:11
Speaker 1: But I also think you'd get some clarity on how
36:13
Speaker 1: you feel about being in this particular relationship and what
36:17
Speaker 1: will happen if things don't change, Because a lot of
36:21
Speaker 1: times we think about what's happening right now, but we
36:23
Speaker 1: don't think, how will I feel if I'm in the
36:25
Speaker 1: same exact place in five years. So I just saw
36:28
Speaker 1: your face fall. It was not subtle. Um, you know,
36:34
Speaker 1: how will I feel if I'm in the same place
36:36
Speaker 1: in ten years? It sounds like if you look back,
36:40
Speaker 1: you said you've been together. I think eight years? It's
36:42
Speaker 1: all right? Yeah, so October was nine, okay, so so
36:48
Speaker 1: and at some point you know this wasn't the beginning,
36:50
Speaker 1: but it it's been going on for quite a while.
36:53
Speaker 1: And so if you thought back then nothing will have
36:56
Speaker 1: changed and I will be in the same exact place.
36:58
Speaker 1: How would you have felt about that? Helpless? I guess hopeless,
37:02
Speaker 1: Helpless and hopeless maybe. So, what what you and your
37:06
Speaker 1: boyfriend have in common is that you both want something
37:09
Speaker 1: to change, but you're both not doing what you need
37:12
Speaker 1: to do to make things change. And I would want
37:16
Speaker 1: you to ask yourself, why are you not meaning if
37:20
Speaker 1: you want to see if this relationship has potential to
37:24
Speaker 1: be fulfilling for both of you, and I don't just
37:26
Speaker 1: mean in the physical intimacy, but just in general, the communication,
37:30
Speaker 1: the connection, the closeness. Then you're going to have to
37:34
Speaker 1: do something other than nothing because things magically change. No, absolutely,
37:39
Speaker 1: And you look like you're in pain, you know what
37:41
Speaker 1: I mean. You look like you're an emotional turmoil and
37:43
Speaker 1: like this is where you know you are. It's okay,
37:46
Speaker 1: that's okay to admit to yourself, you know, I mean,
37:49
Speaker 1: maybe that's the fire that you need to to recognize
37:52
Speaker 1: that you have to do something proactive here. You can't
37:55
Speaker 1: just sit wait for him to fix himself or to
37:57
Speaker 1: fix whatever issues that you guys are working on. You
38:00
Speaker 1: have to be part of that solution. And I know
38:02
Speaker 1: it's probably scary to think about the fact that, oh,
38:05
Speaker 1: you know, if I go to therapy, maybe I'll learn
38:07
Speaker 1: that I'm going to have to leave him. You're putting
38:09
Speaker 1: your everything on hold for a relationship that isn't bringing
38:12
Speaker 1: you that much joy. Yeah, it's really hard because we
38:17
Speaker 1: do have fun together, Like he is hilarious. I know
38:22
Speaker 1: that he loves me and all these things, and it's
38:24
Speaker 1: just like I look at like the thought of being
38:29
Speaker 1: single again is terrifying, Like can I just like have
38:33
Speaker 1: this little bit of happiness and not have it all
38:37
Speaker 1: because I'd rather have that than be on my own again.
38:41
Speaker 1: This is so common. I see this all the time
38:44
Speaker 1: in therapy, where people say, you know, I'm getting some
38:48
Speaker 1: crumbs in this relationship and they're delicious. They're delicious crumbs.
38:52
Speaker 1: I really love these crumbs. Um, But if I leave,
38:55
Speaker 1: I might start right. So I'm getting something here, but
38:59
Speaker 1: if I leave, I might have nothing. And I think
39:03
Speaker 1: that when you make decisions based on fear instead of
39:07
Speaker 1: making decisions based on some inside place of knowing, and
39:11
Speaker 1: you're not at that inside place of knowing because you
39:13
Speaker 1: haven't explored it enough, you haven't done the work because
39:16
Speaker 1: you're afraid to find out what that place of knowing
39:18
Speaker 1: is going to tell you. It might very well lead
39:21
Speaker 1: to a very fulfilling relationship with this person who is
39:24
Speaker 1: hilarious that you love being around. Okay, it might lead there,
39:28
Speaker 1: it might not. We know that if you do nothing,
39:33
Speaker 1: you will be in this You will be having the
39:35
Speaker 1: same conversation with somebody else five years, ten years, fifteen
39:39
Speaker 1: years down the line. Yeah, I guess I also don't know,
39:43
Speaker 1: like good time and place to start talking about things again,
39:46
Speaker 1: because I feel like I do this thing where we're
39:50
Speaker 1: in a good place, so I feel like that means
39:53
Speaker 1: like this is a good time to start talking about
39:55
Speaker 1: things again. But then it's like his perspective is we're
39:59
Speaker 1: in a good place, like why are you bringing this
40:01
Speaker 1: up now? So it's both and there are some good
40:04
Speaker 1: things happening between the two of you, and these other
40:07
Speaker 1: problems still exist, so it's not one or the other.
40:10
Speaker 1: You're not in a good place, and that erases everything
40:13
Speaker 1: that's not working, just like when things are not working,
40:15
Speaker 1: it doesn't erase all the good things that you have
40:17
Speaker 1: with each other. It's always both and And maybe one
40:21
Speaker 1: way to do this to kind of structure this is
40:25
Speaker 1: if you each come up with almost like a menu
40:28
Speaker 1: of here's a list of things I want to talk about.
40:30
Speaker 1: He has a list of things he wants to talk about.
40:33
Speaker 1: You only do one at a time, maybe once a week, right,
40:37
Speaker 1: And you give each other the menu, and they get
40:39
Speaker 1: to pick from your menu the topic that they want
40:43
Speaker 1: to talk about. And that's the only topic that you
40:46
Speaker 1: guys talk about in that conversation. You don't bring up
40:48
Speaker 1: anything else on the menu. You can only order one item.
40:51
Speaker 1: There are no substitutions, nothing, nothing you know, doesn't come
40:54
Speaker 1: with any other things. It's all all a heart. And
40:56
Speaker 1: then the person has some control over it because they say, oh,
40:59
Speaker 1: you have these five items, I'll pick number three. I'm
41:02
Speaker 1: comfortable talking about that right now, And that might just
41:05
Speaker 1: be a way to kind of start some conversations going
41:07
Speaker 1: between the two of you, and then the next week
41:10
Speaker 1: you choose off his menu. Right. But I really think
41:13
Speaker 1: that you're going to need someone who can help kind
41:16
Speaker 1: of hold you, support you, and guide you both of
41:20
Speaker 1: you as you go through this. And and that means
41:22
Speaker 1: that you each need to find somebody. You can either
41:26
Speaker 1: go to couples therapy or you can go individually. Um,
41:30
Speaker 1: but I think you need to find somebody to help
41:32
Speaker 1: guide you through this process of really understanding who you
41:34
Speaker 1: are to each other, with the hope that it brings
41:37
Speaker 1: you closer to each other, with the hope that this
41:39
Speaker 1: relationship becomes the kind of relationship that you both want. Okay,
41:45
Speaker 1: So I guess a good question. Then. Part of the
41:47
Speaker 1: reason I never got a therapist is because the guy
41:51
Speaker 1: we were originally working with that we did like four
41:53
Speaker 1: couple sessions with and then he moved to doing one
41:57
Speaker 1: on one and then I I guess he was gonna
42:00
Speaker 1: send your recommendations and you never did, and then I've
42:05
Speaker 1: heard like it. I mean, this is an excuse for myself.
42:08
Speaker 1: But that's kind of hard to find a therapist right now,
42:11
Speaker 1: Like therapists are overwhelmed with stuff like people dealing with
42:14
Speaker 1: pandemic and everything like that. So I just maybe I
42:17
Speaker 1: don't I need like a resource or something. Sure, And
42:21
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, you know what, what's harder than finding
42:23
Speaker 1: a therapist is being in a really unhappy relationship. It
42:28
Speaker 1: is far easier to find a therapist than it is
42:30
Speaker 1: to be in an unhappy relationship. So you're already doing
42:34
Speaker 1: the hard thing. So finding a therapist will be really
42:36
Speaker 1: easy compared to what you're already doing. Okay, so um,
42:40
Speaker 1: there are so many resources. You can look at whatever
42:43
Speaker 1: city you're in. You can look at your local clinic
42:46
Speaker 1: they have low fee or sometimes no fee therapy. You
42:50
Speaker 1: can look at services like the online services, the apps
42:54
Speaker 1: that you know where you can find a therapist. You
42:56
Speaker 1: can do zoom sessions with. You can call your insurance
42:59
Speaker 1: company and you can get a list of therapists in
43:01
Speaker 1: your area, and then you can google them and look
43:03
Speaker 1: at their Yelp reviews, um or their health grades reviews.
43:07
Speaker 1: You can ask friends. There are so many ways to
43:10
Speaker 1: find therapists. And you can call a therapist and if
43:12
Speaker 1: they say I can't see I'm not seeing anybody right now,
43:15
Speaker 1: I'm full, ask them if they have a referral for you,
43:18
Speaker 1: and they probably will. Do you think we can like
43:21
Speaker 1: go back to that guy we originally started seeing. I
43:24
Speaker 1: think you should go to anybody that you feel comfortable with.
43:27
Speaker 1: I will say it's unusual for somebody to start couples
43:30
Speaker 1: therapy and then see somebody individually. It happens, but it's
43:34
Speaker 1: it's not typical, and so you know, maybe you both
43:37
Speaker 1: want a fresh start. I don't know, but those are
43:40
Speaker 1: the details, and there's no reason you can't call that
43:42
Speaker 1: guy and say, hey, I'm you know I I need
43:44
Speaker 1: a referral of three therapists in the area that you
43:47
Speaker 1: would refer me to. You know that you owe me
43:50
Speaker 1: a referral. There's no reason you can't call back and
43:51
Speaker 1: be persistent about getting the information that you need. You
43:54
Speaker 1: know there, I mean, finding a therapist isn't gonna be hard.
43:56
Speaker 1: You're gonna find somebody as soon as you do the
43:59
Speaker 1: work to find somebody. It's I mean, she just gave
44:01
Speaker 1: you so many ways to do it, so that that
44:04
Speaker 1: should be your first point of action, you know, get
44:07
Speaker 1: off this call and then make that make that call. Yeah,
44:11
Speaker 1: And it sounds like your partner is sort of looking
44:14
Speaker 1: a little bit for a quick fix. And as you've mentioned,
44:18
Speaker 1: it's a trauma like it's we would love if there
44:21
Speaker 1: was a quick fix, and we would love if just
44:22
Speaker 1: like sure, like micro dressing might make them feel better,
44:25
Speaker 1: but it's not going to deal with the underlying issue
44:29
Speaker 1: and it's not going to help heal the underlying pain. Yeah,
44:33
Speaker 1: but I feel you and I feel your pain, and
44:36
Speaker 1: I hope that the next time we speak to you
44:38
Speaker 1: that you're in a better place and that you've made
44:40
Speaker 1: some strides in the right direction, because you have the
44:42
Speaker 1: power to do that, you know what I mean, You're
44:44
Speaker 1: in charge of your happiness. Nobody else is going to
44:47
Speaker 1: come in and make you happy. You have to do that.
44:49
Speaker 1: And and and lastly, I would just say, you can
44:51
Speaker 1: have compassion for somebody's history, and you can have compassion
44:54
Speaker 1: for their trauma, but that doesn't mean that that is
44:57
Speaker 1: the right situation for you. And again, you won't know
45:01
Speaker 1: until you, guys, understand more about who you are. But
45:04
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, like you're saying, well, he's
45:06
Speaker 1: the one suffering, and I don't. I shouldn't really be
45:08
Speaker 1: able to you know, I shouldn't have all these feelings.
45:10
Speaker 1: You do have all these feelings, and you really, you know,
45:13
Speaker 1: so many times I see people stay with somebody or
45:16
Speaker 1: stay in a situation where someone's not getting helped for
45:18
Speaker 1: their issue. It would be very different if he was saying,
45:20
Speaker 1: I'm going to actively work on this trauma and healing
45:23
Speaker 1: this trauma and I'm going to go do that work.
45:25
Speaker 1: But it sounds like he's kind of just being very
45:28
Speaker 1: passive about it right now. Yeah, And I think, Chelsea,
45:31
Speaker 1: you're saying, I should I am in charge of my happiness.
45:34
Speaker 1: But then now I'm like realizing on this call, like
45:37
Speaker 1: how much pain it really is like for me. So
45:41
Speaker 1: I think I needed to realize that to be more
45:45
Speaker 1: action oriented for myself. So thank you, guys, Well, thank
45:50
Speaker 1: you for thank you, and I wish you lots of
45:53
Speaker 1: luck and and you know, and good vibes. I'm sending
45:56
Speaker 1: you lots of good vibes. Thank you, And if we
45:59
Speaker 1: ever do talk again, I'll try to figure out the
46:01
Speaker 1: dog situation so she's not yapping all the time. You
46:05
Speaker 1: could just put her down, that's fine, Thank you so much.
46:10
Speaker 1: To figure out that therapist situation. Yeah, exactly, that's their
46:13
Speaker 1: first point of interest. Okay, good, thank you do that.
46:19
Speaker 1: She's so sweet. So hard to see someone in pain,
46:23
Speaker 1: you know, and they don't realize that they're in pain
46:25
Speaker 1: until you tell them, but you can and then you
46:28
Speaker 1: see them tear up as we can see right now,
46:30
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, oh, your body is telling
46:32
Speaker 1: you something that you are haven't been able to acknowledge. Well,
46:37
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and we'll be right back
46:40
Speaker 1: with Lori Gottlieb. Okay, thank you. So to wrap up
46:48
Speaker 1: today's episode, Well that was heavy, but you know, worthwhile.
46:53
Speaker 1: I think I hopefully we lit a fire under her
46:55
Speaker 1: butt to go do something about the situation that she's
46:58
Speaker 1: found herself in. H Yeah. Yeah. Do you find yourself, Lauria, like,
47:04
Speaker 1: how much time do you have to take in between
47:06
Speaker 1: seeing people? Do you find yourself ever really impacted so
47:10
Speaker 1: much that it's hard for you to go onto the
47:12
Speaker 1: next thing? Yeah? I definitely take more than a like
47:15
Speaker 1: a commercial break, right, that's a good way to end
47:18
Speaker 1: a session that we have to go to commercial. Yeah,
47:20
Speaker 1: unless you want to do ten minutes of commercial and
47:22
Speaker 1: then we'll come back, because that's usually how much time
47:23
Speaker 1: I have between sessions. Yeah. Well, LORI, did you have
47:28
Speaker 1: any advice you wanted to ask from Chelsea? See? I
47:31
Speaker 1: never get to do this, so this is my favorite part.
47:33
Speaker 1: I was really excited for this part. One thing that
47:35
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when you were talking earlier about
47:37
Speaker 1: when you get ready, you know, to do something. You
47:38
Speaker 1: were talking about centering yourself. I I'm wondering. You know,
47:43
Speaker 1: you're on tour right now. You're getting up in front
47:46
Speaker 1: of these very large crowds. Do you ever get nervous?
47:49
Speaker 1: And if you do, what do you do with your anxiety?
47:52
Speaker 1: You know what I did this this tour. I didn't
47:54
Speaker 1: drink for the first probably four weeks of my shows.
47:58
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. I didn't use any crutch like
48:01
Speaker 1: any like I sometimes would take a beta blocker, but
48:04
Speaker 1: I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I had
48:06
Speaker 1: to be completely present, and I noticed that the nerves
48:09
Speaker 1: were there for about the first six or seven performances,
48:13
Speaker 1: and then I just strolled right into what I do
48:17
Speaker 1: for a living, Like I I took away all of
48:19
Speaker 1: those things because I'm at a point where I'm constantly
48:21
Speaker 1: trying to challenge myself to deliver the best show to
48:24
Speaker 1: the people that paid money, that are taking time out
48:26
Speaker 1: of their schedule to see me. I there was a
48:28
Speaker 1: period of time where I would perform and I never
48:30
Speaker 1: considered the people that were coming to see me. You know.
48:33
Speaker 1: It was about me going out there, doing a great
48:35
Speaker 1: show and then going on to the next thing. So
48:38
Speaker 1: now my perspective has shifted to in a way that
48:40
Speaker 1: I wanted to deliver the best stuff I have, you know,
48:42
Speaker 1: and honor the people that are coming to see me. So, yeah,
48:45
Speaker 1: I get nerves, but I I've noticed that challenging those
48:49
Speaker 1: nerves and just walking through it has been the biggest
48:53
Speaker 1: strength exercise that I've ever had. It's better than a drink,
48:56
Speaker 1: it's better than a joint, and it's better than a
48:58
Speaker 1: beta blocker. And some people really do need a beta
49:01
Speaker 1: baker for ship, you know, people who aren't used to
49:03
Speaker 1: public speaking. But my therapist said to me, you know,
49:06
Speaker 1: when you're nervous about something, that means you care, and
49:08
Speaker 1: I think about that every single time I walk out.
49:10
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, if I'm nervous about something, that means
49:14
Speaker 1: I care. And that's a good reminder that that nerves
49:17
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily the worst thing, you know, they fuel you. Yeah,
49:20
Speaker 1: people say that about test taking too, or you know,
49:22
Speaker 1: and you're like a job interview or a first date
49:24
Speaker 1: that you're nervous about. That if you do feel nervous,
49:27
Speaker 1: it does mean that you care. And I think what
49:30
Speaker 1: you did was sort of like exposure therapy, you know,
49:32
Speaker 1: where it's kind of like if you're afraid of something,
49:35
Speaker 1: you do the thing and you find out the disaster
49:37
Speaker 1: didn't befall you, and then you can do it again
49:39
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, look, catastrophe didn't happen. I can
49:42
Speaker 1: do it again. Right, that's really helpful. Yeah. And then
49:45
Speaker 1: a couple of weekends ago, I went and had a
49:47
Speaker 1: drink before I performed, and I got off stage, I'm like, no,
49:50
Speaker 1: I don't like that anymore. I like to be as
49:52
Speaker 1: clear as possible. So that's a huge victory lap for
49:55
Speaker 1: a number of reasons. Yeah. Yeah, No, that's really helpful
49:58
Speaker 1: I think for anybody with anxiety. Yeah, well, thank you
50:01
Speaker 1: so much. Laurie was so nice to have a real
50:03
Speaker 1: professional on today, somebody with a degree. Yeah, no, thank you,
50:07
Speaker 1: thank you. I I love your show. I I listened
50:09
Speaker 1: to it for advice all the time. So thank you
50:11
Speaker 1: for helping all of the therapists and non therapists out there.
50:15
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you. I hope to see you again
50:17
Speaker 1: in person sometime soon. Yeah, thanks so much, great to
50:20
Speaker 1: see you. Take care bye. Well, that was really good.
50:24
Speaker 1: And speaking of the tour that Laurie mentioned, Chelsea, do
50:28
Speaker 1: you have some dates who'd like to tell us about? Oh?
50:29
Speaker 1: My god, always, always, I have. February second and third
50:33
Speaker 1: are my Seattle shows. We have added second shows to
50:36
Speaker 1: a lot of markets, but those are the immediate dates
50:38
Speaker 1: coming up. Oh also, were we added Philly? So come
50:41
Speaker 1: to Philly or Honolulu or Kauai or no Maui ship
50:46
Speaker 1: who knows? Anyway? Does that answer your question, Katherine, It
50:49
Speaker 1: absolutely does. Um And also check Chelsea's website, so yeah,
50:53
Speaker 1: go to chelsea dot com. I've never been to it,
50:55
Speaker 1: but I think it's a good time. It's simple, it's visible,
51:00
Speaker 1: it works well. Good. Thank you, Thank you, Catherine. If
51:03
Speaker 1: you say so, I believe you. Well that's all we
51:06
Speaker 1: have for today's episode. Okay, well that was a definite
51:09
Speaker 1: therapy session. We will see you next week. Guys. Bye
51:13
Speaker 1: by and if you like to get advice from Chelsea
51:16
Speaker 1: and one of her guests, please write into Dear Chelsea
51:19
Speaker 1: Project at gmail dot com.