Latest / Dear Chelsea / Women Without Kids with Ruby Warrington

Transcript

Women Without Kids with Ruby Warrington · Dear Chelsea

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Oh Hi Chelsea. Oh my god, I would
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: a whirlwind. I love New York City so much. I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: just don't know if I can leave here. I mean,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I'm homeless right now anyway, So my house in la
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: is still not ready, even though I'm going back there
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: on Monday. I did my first two shows back at
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the Beacon in New York City, and they weren't fucking epic.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: In the middle of a river of water, right.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, there was a huge storm on
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the first show I had Friday night. They were like,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: do you want to cancel? And I was like, I
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: don't know. Once you cancel a show, it triggers so
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: much else. So I was like, there's going to end
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: up being more people that show up than people who
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: can't come, you know. So we decided to just pull
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the trigger and do the show and it was awesome,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and then Saturday Night's show was even more awesome. And
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just so happy to be back on tour. I
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: feel so rested. I feel like I had the vacation
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: of a lifetime, a summer of a lifetime. I Mean,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I just can't believe how fucking great my life is.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm just so grateful that I have so many
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: people and fans that have given me this life because
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I just am in enjoying myself to the n degree.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: And I also feel like it's just time for me
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to move to New York City.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Liz, I have a second
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: home there.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I know, I never lived in New York City. I'm
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: from New Jersey. I think it's time. And my business
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: managers I told them, I go, I think I might
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: want to move to New York soon, and they were like,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: your house in LA is not even done yet. And
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, we're going to have to rent
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: that out to someone or do something. But I'm just
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: much more stimulated here and I just love it. Last night,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I was just out at this simple restaurant with like
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: five girlfriends, and I'm like, this is awesome. This is
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: what I want my life to be like. I don't
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: want to be in LA going to sleep at eight
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: o'clock every night like an elderly woman. I want to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: live it up. It's time.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have a lot of friends in New
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: York too, so it's like pop by see people.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I like making new friends too. I make friends wherever
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I go. I mean, I am just on fire with
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: my new friendships, my old friendships and new friendships. But
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that's the one and great thing about traveling too and
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: bopping around. There's so many people to meet and interesting
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: people who add and contribute to your life and joyfulness
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and experience and point of view, and it's just all
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: so interesting.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with as many places as you went this summer,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you got lots of different experiences.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I dosed a lot of people capting this summer.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I gave a lot of people microdosing of whatever I
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: had excellent. I love, especially strangers. There was this old
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: couple walking outside my house in MAYORCA, like a German couple,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: not old but older, and they were holding hands and
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: we started talking. I don't know why, and they're like,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: it's our anniversary, our thirtieth anniversary. And I was like,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: oh my god, you guys should take some microdose of LSD,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Like I have a whole sheet of it, and you
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: guys should do that. And they both looked at each
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: other and they're like, we will. I go take one
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of my kayaks, take it out and put it, go
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: right out there and go have a good night. I
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: go just have fun with each other. And they came
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: back four hours later. I was kind of like, are
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: they still out there? And they came out and they
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: left the kayak and they left this little note on
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the kayak and it was just the cutest thing. And
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: so I just want to give drugs to everybody. And
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I know not everybody can do drugs, so I wanted
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to say that it's not for everybody, but there is
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: something for almost everybody.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it's kayaking on LSD.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's my favorite activity in my ARCHI I like
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to get up. One night, I got up from dinner.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It was like nine thirty. I was like, I took
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: my Mango dakery and I ran outside. I was like,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: it's time to get on a paddle board. And I
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: went because if the water is because we live in
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: this port and it's like I don't know who we are.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I'm alone, a single woman. I live there with all
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: the men that I have to hire to take care
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: of me, which is also a great irony in my life.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: And I can go out there and paddle you know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: it's so still and placid at night, and just going
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: out there with my cocktail and my paddle board or
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: my kayak. I'm like, I just look up at the
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: stars and I'm like, oh God, I believe in you.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I believe in you now. Thank you, thank you.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Do to you.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been there, you know. I'm just trying to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: figure out if it's too late to go to Antarctica.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: You've been everywhere else.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, but it just feels like every
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: time I have an opportunity to go there, it just
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's going to be I hate to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: say this, but luxurious. Like I want to be on
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: a comfortable boat, and all these boats are like it's
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: like an exploration and I'm not an explorer.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: No, those are some of the choppiest seas on the planet.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with that. I have a
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: problem with being comfortable, Like I want to be on
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: a yacht, not an exploration boat, because they're bare bones
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and then you're living basically like sleeping on cement like
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a Maxi pad on top of it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to have like an ice break.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I'm like, do I care that much? Like I'd like
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: to go, Oh god, I have these bruises on the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: back of my neck because Dennis Colonello, who has two
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: meatballs for hands. My chiropractor, but he doesn't he doesn't
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: crack me. He got into my neck so deeply yesterday
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: because I have so much tension in my neck for
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: my I have some slip disc in my neck and
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: and I was washing my hair this morning in the
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: shower and I was like ah ah, And then I
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: texted him, I said, you know, you assaulted me.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: Yesterday in your bruise.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: But he's like that he's happy that he hurt me,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: because that's his kind of personality.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Chiropractors, Okay, I feel like they it's not a popular profession.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: They're all a little.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Weird, but like I feel like at some point they
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: go two different directions. There's okay, i'll crack your back,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: make you feel better whatever, and the other direction they
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: just go so wooo.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: It's like naughty.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's pretty woo woo. But he doesn't ever crack me.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: He just realigns me. And it's very painful because I
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: have a situation where I hold all my tension in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: my chest and neck like, so he gets in there.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I mean he literally is like digging into my boobs.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: He puts a pad there yea to like try and
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: pretend that it's not you know what it is in you,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: which is him basically feeling me up. So shout out
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: to Dennis Colonello.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: Thanks Ennis.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But I have a great chiropractor and whistler who cracks
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: me because when I ski, my ribs pop out all
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: the time, like this right ram bobbys pops out, and
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: he cracks me all the time. His name is Keith,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and he's a fucking awesome.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: I bet he gets a lot of business.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Oh not only does I probably carry him through the
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: whole year, because when my family comes up, we have
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Keith come every night at six before dinner, and everyone
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: lines up and sits around and watches each other get cracked.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: He's like, God, I feel like I'm in like a theater.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: He goes, I can't, I'm performing for all of these people.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I know, but it's so good when
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: you're out of whack to get cracked. Oh I love
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it when it rings through your whole body. I never
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: cracked my neck because women there's danger in women cracking
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: their neck really anyone, but more so for women. But
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I like sometimes for my hips to get adjusted because
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: they get out of whack, you know. But yeah, one
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: night we were all this is years ago, my whole
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: family was like over Christmas, we're all up in Whistler
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: and we're all so stoned. Everyone is as high as
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a kite, and so we were all just like watching him.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: We set him up in the living room and everyone's
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: just like around watching him, drinking and just like staring
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: at him. And I was like, God, he must think
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: we are a one hot mess of a family. Did
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: you explain why?
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Well, now, who cares?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Who cares?
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: He's like these guys we're not.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's better to be quiet and high than to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: be loud and obnoxious. Yeah, that's what I tell myself. Anyway,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I saw Barry Manilow on my flight yesterday.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: You did, Yeah, how's he looking?
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Exactly the same, exactly the same. I was like, oh,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: you look like it's almost like he's frozen in time.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: And I'm glad Barry Mallows did great.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he seems to be thriving. Maybe he was lying around, Yeah,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: lying around he was. He walked to the bathroom all
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: by himself. That's when I noticed him.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Did you know al Pacino as.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Having a baby, a baby. I'm so sick of all
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: of this grossness.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: And there's another one. It's al Pacino and de Niro.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, how fun for that baby.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: One of them is eighty three.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you would be one hundred and one when
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: your kid graduated high school. If I'm doing my math correctly.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you don't need to make the math because he
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: won't be there, so don't worry about it. It's really gross.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch has seven children or six or they all.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk has like fourteen.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Elon Musk's dad just had a baby with his stepdaughter.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: What.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Elon Musk's dad had a baby with his step
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: daughter and.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: It's a secret child. But it came out like.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Well, that explains a little bit about Elon.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Musk, I know, like it's got a little weird, weird
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: shit going on.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Well that family.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, actually I think they just had their second
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: child together. I think that's what just came out recently.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: It's pretty on that note.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: What do you think is worse a stepdaughter or your
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: adopted daughter Like Woody Allen and his daughter Sunny, they
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: just keep having babies, in my opinion, to prove that
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: they were really meant to be all along. Meanwhile you're like, no, no,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: you were meant not.
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: To be No.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Our next guest, I've been following on social media for
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: a while because she is an advocate for not having
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: children as well. I don't know if you know that
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: about me, but I don't want children, So I've been
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: following her and then I saw I got her book,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: which was called Women Without Kids, and I thought, hm,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: we may have something to talk about. Please welcome Ruby Warrington.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon. Hi, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Point us, no chairs.
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: I am in Miami.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Oh you are?
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Are you hanging out with Ron DeSantis?
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: Absolutely?
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: He invited me for dinner this weekend.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Oh that's fun. I hope there's a bunch of drag
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: queens and transgender people there totally so that they can
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: enjoy his presence as well.
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me on, guys. I'm so excited.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Yes are we?
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: As are we? I received your book Women Without Kids,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and obviously we have that in common.
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: We do.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: So talk to us. Talk to us about how you
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: came to that decision. Talk to us about the book,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: about everything, your stance on being child free.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Well, I think that I was born this way. Honestly,
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: That's kind of where I've landed now. I've actually recently
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: started using the term a reproductive to describe how I
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: feel about having children, kind of like asexual, as in
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: like no desire to engage with the reproductive element of
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: my sexuality. Right, That's a term that I only came
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: up with more recently. But honestly, I feel like I
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: was born this way, you know, I just never had
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: a desire to have a child. This was something that
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: was questioned intensely throughout my twenties and thirties, to the
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: extent that I questioned it in myself, like why don't
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: I want to do this thing? Am I sure? I
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: don't want to do this thing? Will I regret not
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: doing this thing? And then I got to my early
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: forties and I honestly was looking ahead to menopause, and
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: I realized I was quite excited actually about what might
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: lie on the other side of this kind of monthly
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: hormonal roller coaster. And within that realized, no, I have
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: no regrets about not having had a child. There is
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: not one minute of panic kind of sounding in my
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: book body at this moment, like this was always the
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: right path for me. And how fortunate I am to
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: have been born in a country and in an era
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: where I actually got to make the choice not to
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: have a child, and I actually got to really live
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: true to myself, you know. And so I wanted to
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: write this book because it felt like the path of
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: non motherhood, no matter how a person finds themselves, there
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: is still so stigmatized. It's still seen as so other,
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: so unusual. People get so many questions about it. And
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: actually the statistics will show that women without kids are
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: rising in numbers dramatically all around the world and happier
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: and often happier and richer, richer.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: There was a study that came out that said men
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: who are married are the happiest men, women who are
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: single are the happiest women.
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: Right, there are all of these kind of contradictions between
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: our actual lived experiences as women without kids and what
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: the society tells us our life are supposed to be. Like,
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: so I wanted to write the book to first and
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: foremost just validate the path of non motherhood, like again,
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: no matter whether it's by choice, by circumstance, not by choice.
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: Because a lot of people who've tried and failed to
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: have kids even there failed right like they see themselves
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: or they're often told that, like you just you failed
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: at this important thing, this most important thing. But beyond that,
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: you know, the statistics will show that the birth rate
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: is actually decreasing massively in every single country around the world.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: The number one reason this is happening is because women
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: are getting more access to education, more access to financial freedom,
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: and more empowerment basically. And yet there are plenty of
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: forces who do not see this as a good thing,
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: who would really prefer for women to continue having lots
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: of children, to keep boosting the birth rate and essentially
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: keep our economy kind of ticking on as it is.
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: And a lot of the time, the quote unquote blame
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: for the falling birth rates is put very squarely at
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: the feet of silly, selfish women who are choosing to
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: do other things with their lives then have kids. And
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: so it just felt like this really juicy area to
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: dive into in book format.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And what has the response been for you with other women?
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: I've been getting just countless DM, so many women who
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: reflect back to me what I so often felt I
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: thought I was the only one. Thank you, so much
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: for showing me that I'm not a weirder, I'm not
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: a freak. I haven't failed. Thank you for giving me
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: so many different ways to think about why I don't
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: want to be a mother, or even why I'm questioning
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: if that is right for me. So just a real
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: sense of solidarity and support and people feeling seen and
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: understood when they're reading the book. Of course, there has
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: also been you know, the occasional this book is poison,
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: you ridiculous, selfish person. You're going to regret this when
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: you're old, Like I kind of expected. I actually expected
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: more of those sorts of comments actually, but yeah, there
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: have been a few of those as well.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of backlash, a lot of backlash
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: from men, conservative men. While I live in a Marria,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: so we have you know, this is a hot mess
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: situation and a hot button topic here because men would
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: like to force us to have children here in this country.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So the backlash from women mostly it's supportive from women
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and especially mothers are like, yeah, to each his own,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you know, why would you ever force this on somebody else?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: But when I do get these messages from mothers going
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: you're such a sad person or they comment on my posts.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: You're such a sad person, Chelsea. You're so sad and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: you're just covering it up with humor, and you're gonna
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: be miserable. You're gonna die alone. I'm like, I hope
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I do die alone. I don't want to die with
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other people. What are you talking about?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: You're gonna die alone? You think the reason to have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a child is so that you don't die alone. I
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: don't want anyone dealing with my death. I want to
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: be shut and just put down or whatever. Like if
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sick, shoot me and bury me, or actually light
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: me on fire and cremate me, whatever's best for the environment,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: because I think cremating is bad. Now they can liquefy
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: your body I heard recently, right, But anyway, those aren't
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the reasons. And to speak to the main issue that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: everyone brings up, which is in a more loving way,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: is you're going to miss out on the most beautiful
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: love of your life. It is the most transcendent. You
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: can't describe how somebody feels when they give birth to
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: a baby and the love that they feel. Of course
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I believe that to be true, but I'm okay with that,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and if I'm okay with missing out on that kind
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: of love. Just like some people will never have pets,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: some people will never experience that kind of love. And
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that's not the same as a kid, but for some people,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: that's even better than a kid. The most common thing
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that I hear among mothers is no one said it
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: was going to be this hard. No one said it
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: was going to be this hard.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: I hear that all the time, and I'm like, are
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: you kidding me? Literally, everyone always talks about how it is.
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: All I ever hear is this is really hard, This
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: is so hard.
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: And then everyone I know who becomes a mom is like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: no one tells you how hard this is going to be.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: I'm like, what if you've been what channel have you
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: been listening?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I think there is an overwhelming chorus of people talking
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: about how beautiful it is, how one wonderful it is.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: They don't say, hey, you're going to be up for
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: the first six months of their lives fifteen times a
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: night or whatever it is three times a night. I
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: guess I'm exaggerating breastfeeding, or that you're beholden that you
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: have no life for six months. People talk about it,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: but the overwhelming chorus is one of positivity rather than
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: of negativity.
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: I think, and I do actually think that the physical experience.
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: You can read all that stuff and you can hear
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: about it, but then the physical experience and I think,
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: actually what a lot of women find really hard, especially
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: women who have grown up with a degree of agency
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: and freedom to kind of live our lives on our
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: own terms thanks to the different waves of the feminist movement,
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: becoming a mother means say goodbye to all of that.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: So it kind of means a loss. It actually means
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: a loss of privilege in a way. If freedom, autonomy,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: self authorship, bodily sovereignty, these are privileges which have been
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: fought for by the feminist movement. Women of Gen X
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: Millennials gen zs were the first generations of women to
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: really kind of experience that in our lives, and so
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: of course, becoming a mother means a loss of so
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: many of those privileges, privilege which used to be only
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: applied to men. And so I think that it's actually
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: maybe even harder to weigh up the kind of sacrifices
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: and responsibilities of becoming a mother against the kind of
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: freedoms that we now have the opportunity to go after
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: in our lives. So I think that's something that when
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: I get that kind of feedback, it often does feel
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: like a projection. I think that can be quite a
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: envy in those kind of comments as well. Maybe if
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: someone is feeling a bit like I don't enjoy this
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: nearly as much as I should do, or the love
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: actually doesn't make up for all the sacrifices, but they're
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: not allowed to say.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: That, Or you don't feel the love that everyone's telling
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you you're going to feel, you don't feel that you
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: experience a terrible case of postpartum, or you don't feel
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: that connection to your baby that everyone tells you you're
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: supposed to feel, and then you feel like something's wrong
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: with you, and then you feel like it's a whole
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: game of shame. Also, parenting, you feel like you never
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: know that you're doing the right thing. I mean, this
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: is the feedback I've heard and books I've read, like
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you never know what you're doing, you know if if
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing, and the idea that every
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: woman is supposed to have a baby isn't taking into
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: account the baby you're supposed to have a baby, and
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: then and then the baby suffers because you're not prepared
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: or interested in the way that like, it is such
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a thoughtful process to come to the conclusion that it's
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: not for you. It should be such a thoughtful process
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: to come to the conclusion that it is. There are
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: so many women that talk about I don't know if
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I want one, but I'm gonna freeze my eggs and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It's like, if you
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: don't know, then maybe you don't. You don't, then you
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have a kid. You have to be one hundred
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and fifty percent on board with having a child, not
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: be like I have these eggs, I guess you know
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: what I'm gonna I'm gonna be forty. I'm gonna just try.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I think that is just so such a mistake for
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: so many people.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: And that's why I wanted to write this book to
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: say it's it's different, and it's equally valid not to
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: be a parent, because that doorway has been so closed off,
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: because it's been so stigmatized, Like if you don't become
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: a parent, especially actually if you don't become a mother,
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: because I don't think supplies to men in the same way.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: If you don't become a mother, you have missed out.
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: You will be unfulfilled, you are cold heartless. You are
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: going to miss out on this most transcendent, most important,
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: deepest love that you can ever feel. You're going to
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: regret it, and you will die lonely, destitute and alone.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: And so when all of that stigma exists, that door
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: to non motherhood is closed off. So for anyone who's
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: questioning it, even if they have really serious doubts about
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: their parental readiness, like their capacity to be a parent,
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: it's going to be so much easier just to go, Ah,
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: I guess I'll just do it anyway, or I guess
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: I'll just go along with it, because I guess I
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: don't want to be labeled with all of that stuff,
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: or I don't want to take the risk on, you know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: being this lonely old spinster. Although, like you say, Chelsea,
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: ultimately we all die alone, right, no one's going with us,
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: No one's like holding our hand crossing us over to
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: the other side. And there's also no guarantee that our
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: kids are going to be that our kids could well die.
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: Before we do.
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: And also statistically, this was so sad when I read this.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: Sixty percent of people living in old people's homes don't
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: receive any visitors. There's no guarantee you're going to have
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: the kind of relationship with your kids where you want
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: them all to be, or they all want to be
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: at your bedside, kind of like seeing you off, you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: onto the next dimension. So part of the point of
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: the book, and I've had so many moms read it
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: and actually feel really grateful or expressible gratitude for making
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: them feel less like defectible, less like they've failed, if
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: they're actually not enjoying being a mum, or if they
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: actually sometimes want to still be the woman they are
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: without their kids, you know. But a big part of
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: the book was just about saying, Hey, this is the
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: most important decision you can ever make. It's one of
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: the only decisions you can't unmake. So know yourself, know
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: your capacity, know your choices, and act accordingly.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: No your partner, and know whether or not I just
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: was talking to a girlfriend last night. She has three kids,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: she's in an unhappy marriage, she's been married for almost
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: twenty years, and she's stuck. She's getting ready to make
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a move, but she has stayed in this unhappiness because
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of her children, And that in it of itself, is like, Hello,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: you don't know what the commitment is until you have
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: those children. And then so many women find themselves in
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a situation where it's not a fifty to fifty parenting situation,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: where the women are fucking doing everything, and not only
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: are the men not contributing in an equal manner, they
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: don't even appreciate all the work that their wife has
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: done to raise these children until they separate and then realize,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: oh shit, oh fuck. I mean, I can't tell you
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: how many of my girlfriends have left their husbands who
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: didn't appreciate them, didn't value what they did in their
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: child's lives. Now they're divorced and they have no fucking
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: idea what to do with these kids because they've never
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: had to do it. And so there's that element on
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: top of it. So not only can children, you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: trap you into being a parent, which is the idea,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you can get trapped in other ways by being a parent,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: which you're not even thinking about. You're not thinking your
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: husband's not going to be a good father or a
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: good husband or whatever. So there's just there's so much
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: landscape to actually consider before making that decision. I know,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: when you have a husband, I mean, then there's women
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: who have children to save their marriages, which is the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: dumbest thing you could possibly do. I had a girlfriend
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: once to say, like, if you have problems in your marriage,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: children will only intensify those problems. They're not going to
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: solve your problem.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: Because children just add stress. They add financial stress, they
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: add stress in terms of your time, stress in terms
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: of the equality balance in the marriage. Like, yeah, there's
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: going to be ideally like some fun times and a
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: lot of love, but what you're guaranteed is actually quite
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: a lot of stress. And one thing I realized about
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: myself is that I have quite a low capacity for stress.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I also have a low capacity for stress.
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: I would like to say I am low capacity for stress.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: I'm like I can get really easily overwhelmed, Like if
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: I have too many things in my calendar, I spin out.
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: I don't know if it's ADHD or what. I haven't
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: ever had a diagnosis like that, but I spin out
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: really quickly, and I get very overwhelmed with deadlines and
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: having to kind of switch hats too many times during
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: a day, and that's basically parenthood. From what I can see,
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: parenthood is going from one thing to the other, with
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: multiple different people going through different situations in each day. So,
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: like knowing about myself, how overwhelmed I get with that
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: kind of lifestyle. I know that parenthood would likely not
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: bring out the best side of me, let's say, and
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: that that stress would then be transferred to my kids
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: and it just would be kind of a shit show.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: So I agree with that statement. It would not bring
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: out the best side of me.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Such a good way to put it.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I also want to just say, this is a conversation
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: about child free women, and you know, and obviously anyone
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: who follows me on Instagram knows how I make these
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: PSAs about, you know, the wonders and joys of a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: child free existence. Nothing I do is to shame women
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: for having children, And what I'm trying to do is
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: celebrate women who choose not to have children because they
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: don't have enough representation. Nobody is telling women, yes, you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: can be whatever you want. I mean, there are some,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: but that's not the overarching theme in the society we
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: live in. It's when are you getting married and when
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: are you having children. So with the joy and experiences
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that I've had in my life without having to done
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: either of those things, I feel it is my purpose
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to represent to the women who have either chosen not
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: to have children or haven't been able to have children,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: that there is joyfulness and happiness to be found in
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: a panoply of other ways in our society and in life.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: So I want to make sure women know that, you know,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: if you want to have a child, of course, go
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: have a baby. I'm not mad at you. I want
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: everyone to feel empowered, every woman to know that the
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: decision is yours to make, and if you don't choose
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to have children, there is nothing unvaluable about you. And
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: on that note, we are going to take a quick
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: break and we'll be right back. And we are back
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: with Ruby Warrington, author of Women Without Kids. Oh Ruby,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: also sober Curious? What the fuck? What is that curious about? Sobriety?
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: Yes, so sober Curious.
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: This is my last book.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: I had always been an enthusiastic social drinker, shall we say,
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: And I got to my mid thirties and I started
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: getting the feeling that alcohol might actually be a cause
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: of some of the anxiety and depression and difficulties that
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: I was experiencing at the time, But my drinking didn't
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: really look like problem drinking. It didn't look like alcoholic drinking.
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: I went to a couple of AA meetings, didn't really
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: see my story reflected there. But I knew that I
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: wanted to make a change, and so I came up
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: with this term sober curious that was kind of less judgmental,
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: a bit more open minded, and would give me permission
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: to just ask some of my questions about alcohol, like
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: am I drinking too much? How much is too much?
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: Why is there so much pressure to drink? Why are
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: there so few decent alcohol free options on every menu everywhere?
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: Like all of these questions, right, And so that became
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: a bit of a movement in a way. I started
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: hosting events in New York which were immediately hugely popular,
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: and then I had a book on the subject come
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: out at the very end of twenty eighteen. And that
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: term has really taken and I think it's been embraced
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: by a lot of normal social drinkers who've had maybe
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: one too many horrific hangovers and actually really want to
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: make a change to their drinking. But without having to
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: give themselves the label of I'm an alcoholic or subscribe
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: to a kind of a program for recovery. You know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: but so you drink, I don't anymore. And I now
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: have got to a place where alcohol actually just doesn't
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: I just don't enjoy it at all. And this has
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: been over like ten years of experimentation and questioning and
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: experiencing longer and longer periods of abstinence, trying it in
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: certain situations, and just getting to a point where I'm like, actually, no,
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: it just makes me feel shit, Like even if I
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: get a few minutes of pleasure, which now actually feels
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: more like just numbness, the after effects are typically just
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: so horrible, even just from a glass of wine, like
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: my sleep is really badly impacted, my anxieties up, Like
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: it's just I don't enjoy it. But I've got there
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: from a place of choice, Like I've got there because
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: I decided that's not right for me, and I don't
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: want that in my life anymore, not because I in
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: a program that was telling me I was an alcoholic
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: and that if I ever picked up another drink, I
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: was gonna die. Basically, so it's just a more forgiving
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: more open ended approach to addressing or drinking by no
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: means is everyone who gets sober curious completely abstinent from alcohol,
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: but it's really for you might have heard the term
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: great area drinkers some people, people who kind of fall
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: in between just like can take it or leave it
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: and never really think about it to more kind of
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: like extreme alcoholism. There's a lot of people in that
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: great area drinking category who like abuse alcohol sometimes, who
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: sometimes can't control themselves, who sometimes drink more than they
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: know is good for them, and so the sober curious
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: approach really appeals to them.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I think as you get older too, I guess maybe
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: if you're not an addict. I don't know. As I
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: get older, like I like to drink, but at a
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: certain point it's not fun. Like I don't like to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: be drunk like I used to, right, I like to
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: be a bused. I don't like to be drunk. So
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: at a certain age you just kind of like, you know,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: like I'll have a drink before I go on stage,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and then when I get off, it's like I don't
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: want to have another drink, you know what I mean.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Then I want to like have an edible or something
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: my whole physiological response to alcohol has changed. But I
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: guess that's probably not fair to say, because I probably
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: am not an addict. And so if you're listening and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, wait that, I know it's different for everybody,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: So that doesn't naturally happen as you get older. Some
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: people who are addicted to alcohol, it could get worse
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: as you get older, and then you know, it just
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: continues to get worse, which is more typical. I would say, right, okay, Catherine.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Well with that, let's jump to our first caller, who
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: is sort of on this journey of sobriety. She may
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: be a little bit more on the spectrum of needing
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: to be a sober person, So just going into it
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: with that in mind. But Ashley says, I'm a forty
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: one year old nutrition counselor, lesbian and self proclaimed eternal
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: student that has been in recovery from alcohol for the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: last six years. About seventy percent of that time I've
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: been able to say sober. A relapse is almost always
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: triggered by overwhelm or burnout, and never for a good time.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: When I'm in captain recovery mode, I dive into meetings documentaries, books, workshops, retreats, podcasts,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and any and all things regarding neuroscience and addiction. I've
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: taught recovery groups, I've led meetings. I've recently put myself
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: on antibuse. I feel it's important to add I do
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: not adhere to any higher power. There has been much
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: lost and much put at risk due to this constant
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: tug of war. I've lost a special partner and bailed
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: on some major life events, weddings, funerals, even Chelsea's Netflix
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: special taping here in Nashville. Because I put myself into
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: a treatment center. I gave the tickets away to some
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: very happy sober friends. I'm just got sick over it all.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Visiting California a while back, a friend of three decades
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: said to me, out of the blue, Ashley, you've lost
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: your fight.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: Who are you?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: That really hit me more than any therapy session I suppose.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I'm writing to you now for more of the same.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I'd love to get your take, respectfully, Ashley.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, Ashley, Hi, Ashley O.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: This is our special guest, Ruby Warrington. Today. She wrote
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the book Sober Curious and also Women with our Kids.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: But we're talking about sobriety for this.
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: Car excellent familiar?
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, oh good, well thanks for your No, it sounds familiar.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: And what I mean is I've heard this from many
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: individuals like this is it's a good It's a roller coaster, right,
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: it can take us in so many different directions, and
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: just when we feel like we're really getting ahead of it,
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: there it comes here it is again, and I'm back
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: here again? And how did I get back here again?
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: And I know how frustrating and tiring and disheartening that
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: can be. I mean, I think there was one thing
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: in your letter that really really stood out to me,
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: and this is something that the sober Curious approach is
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: really very much about, and so many recovery programs too.
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: But when you said that you're drinking or your relapses
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: are triggered always by getting to a place of despair, overwhelmed,
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: just you know, doing too much stress, anxiety, etc. That's
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: such such useful information, it seems to me.
• 31:04
  Speaker 6: And it seems like you do yoga.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: You're you know, you're obviously looking after your mental health
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: and well being as well, but really like being very
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: focused on that piece, like what are the life situations
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: and the circumstances that typically bring me into that place
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: of overwhelm where I know I'm going to be vulnerable
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: then and reach for that familiar medicator in those circumstances
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: that to me would be the really key thing to
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: be working on and looking at, literally, what are the
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: situations that bring me to that place, and how can
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: I work on ensuring that I encounter as few of
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: those situations and put myself in as few risky situations
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: with alcohol therefore as possible, which obviously is sometimes easier
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: said than done, because a lot of those stresses can
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: be external things that we don't have much control over.
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: When I wrote that letter, I was I was in
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: a state of despair. I was two weeks sober, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: now I realized that I was in the beginning of
• 31:58
  Speaker 7: a mid life crisis. This month life crisis. I was
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: in a very antidonic state. I was joyless. And what
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: I've had to do is really be isolative and sort
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: of create this crystalis around me currently.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: First of all, nice vocabulary, four solid words right there.
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: I love it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: I've just had to sit with it, and it's fucking uncomfortable.
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: It's been painful. Like I said, I've lost a lot,
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: but I feel like something Hash shifted and you hear
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: that a lot in the recovery community. With me, something
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: hash shifted in the last couple of months, and I'm
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: having trouble articulating it. However, it's monumental. This chrysalis is monumental,
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: and I still struggle with. My initial question was how
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: do you harness that inner bad astery when you feel
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: inept and I don't feel capable. I have like a
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: debilitating inadequacy, like an undeserving feeling. I don't deserve a
• 32:53
  Speaker 7: seat at the table. That's why I'm struggling with the most.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And do you feel this shift that you're talking about,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: this wrestle list happening that's in your life? Is this
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: in the positive way?
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: Yes, there's no frills to it. Like I said, it's
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: been really isolating, and in the recovery world they sort
• 33:10
  Speaker 7: of that's not what they encourage you to do. But
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: I've had to do it. I've had to do this alone,
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: this leg of it, and I feel a little bit
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: lighter than when I initially wrote in I have some clarity,
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: and I guess the big thing is I trust myself
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: and I've never been able to say that, but I
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: still struggle with the inadequacy.
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: And again that can be such a trigger to why
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: do I feel this way? Okay, this is a little
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: bit left field. I feel like on this show I
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: can mention this. I'm also really into astrology, and I
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: don't know if you follow for your into astrology at
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: all now a little okay, So there is I actually
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: call it the astro life crisis. Between the ages of
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: about thirty nine, thirty eight, thirty nine and around forty five,
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: there are a series of very very tense astrological transits
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: that every person experiences. They're the kinds of life experiences
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: or that bring up the kind of life experiences and
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: psychological transitions where we can literally feel like all of
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: the illusions we've been operating under are shattered. Everything we
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: thought we knew about our life is not correct. You're nodding, Okay,
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: you're relating to some of this. And for me having
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: astrology is at aol, and particularly being able to maybe
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: take my birth chart to a talented astrologer and have
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: them kind of map out what transits I'm being impacted
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: by can be really helpful because it gives some meaning
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: or like there's something I'm going through. I'm not being
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: asked to look at some of this stuff for a reason.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: And best of all, astrological transits always passed, so that
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: this too will pass is very kind of clear when
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: you apply the astrological lens. It's like, Yeah, you might
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: be having a really intense like Urinus transit which is
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: making you feel like your whole life has been turned
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: upside down, and there's some stuff for you to look at.
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: It's happening for you for a reason, and it's going
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: to pass, but you're going to come out the other
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: side of it. So I don't know, I just want
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: to offer that to you as an additional tool. I
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: guess potentially you know, understanding that you're interested in these
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: more kind of esogetetic subjects, it might be something that
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: could be helpful. And I also agree, like I'm an
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: introvert and i'm very insula and the typical recovery stuff
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: about like don't be in isolation that's never really served
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: me either. I charge up and I find so much
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: more self awareness and comfort in giving myself enough time alone, right,
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: enough time to actually sit with my feelings, let my
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: body process stuff through, like just kind of slob out, honestly,
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: and so I think, don't beat yourself up about feeling
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: like you're drawn to more alone time and that recovery
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: kind of message in your head going no, that's unhealthy,
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: that's dangerous. Give yourself what you need. It sounds like
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: you've been giving yourself some really good emotional self care
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: with that thank you.
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there's an element of PTSD from being so saturated
• 35:50
  Speaker 7: in the recovery world for so long. You know, the
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: health Step foundation is built on powerlessness, and you know,
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: accepting or admitting that your life is unmannered. Well, I'm capable,
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: I know I am, but that that voice is so huge.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I also think it's important that program works for millions
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: of people, But that program isn't the only way to,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you know, to quit something for an attic to quit,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: because it's kind of putting it on the line each day,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: like I'm sober today, Tomorrow is the next day.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: The whole kind of mantra of AA is like I'm
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: here today, I'm sober today, I'm making this decision today,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: which makes it like you have to make the decision
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: almost every single day, whereas if you make a decision
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: to quit something that this isn't serving you in your life.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You know, midlife crises. B Rene Brown puts it down perfectly.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: She's like, we call it a midlife crisis because whatever
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: trauma that we've endured comes and sneaks back up on
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: us by the time we hit forty and all of
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: your armor, everything kind of falls away because then you're
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: forced to face your demons. And that's what you're doing.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: You're facing your demons because it's time for a new
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: child in your life. And this isolatory behavior that you're
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: talking about is totally fine. Whatever the fuck you need
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: is fine. You could be I mean, do you know
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: how much value there is in spending time by yourself.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I've had some of the best times of my life alone,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Like that cannot be understated. You know, seeing friends is
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: also beneficial for your health and your emotional health.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: And all of that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: But you can totally take breaks from people and totally
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: say I'm working on myself right now. You know, do meditation,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: get into yourself, spiritually, connect with your inner voice. Understand
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: why you have a problem with alcohol in the first place.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: That's the issue, you know, not necessarily the alcohol itself
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: that you're using as a band aid. You have to
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: reveal and release your trauma with a therapist, with yourself,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: you know, with journaling, with writing, with reading books on
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: people who've experienced this and come out of it, like
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what steps you take to get there,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and don't think you have to follow the format of
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: alcoholics anonymous. There's you can make your own format and
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: we're all capable of that. And you just said this yourself.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: You are capable of it. You're strong enough. We all are.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: When I went to get hypnotized for smoking, like he's like, okay,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: this is the mantra. If you have a desire, it's
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: not an option. It's not an option. I don't smoke anymore.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: I'm done. That's like a little thing that he gave me.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I am done. I know it's bad
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: for me. I know why I was doing it. I
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: over abused it, so now I have to give it up. Sorry,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: you know, like whoopsie doodle. You abuse something and now
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: you have to give it up. The rewards are going
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: to be so much greater in your life for going
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: through this period of time that you're going through and
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: for taking like the bull by the horns. And just
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: because your journey happened to have some like slip ups
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: or you know, you fell off the wagon. I don't
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: like the way that's defined by alcoholics anonymous either. So
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: that's part of your journey you did that. There's no
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: self immolation necessary. That's okay. Hey, you fucked up. Hopefully
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: it won't happen again. But if it does, you're not
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: gonna beerate yourself. But you're definitely never going to become
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the kind of drinker that you were before.
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I all relapses reminds you learn something with every
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: time that it comes back, that you're there again, and
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: like you become stronger every time you listen and pay
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: attention and act on what you've learned from each of those.
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: So yeah, and also Chelsea picked up on that you
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: said it, I am capable, I can do this. How
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: dare they tell me I'm not? That is the inner
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: badass that you've been thinking you don't have, Like there
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: she is right there, you know, I.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Think Also, you know we always are just like we
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: have all these constructs that everyone's telling us about. You
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: can forge your own path. You're strong enough, you're smart enough,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: like you're you can define what your life is going
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: to look like moving forward. And what I would just
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: deter you from is this judgment that you are putting
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: on yourself, because no one wants that for you, especially you.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: You don't need it. You don't need to be judging yourself.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: You're living an authentic life. So you've struggled with alcoholism
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: or addiction or however you want to frame it. So
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: has have hundreds of millions of people and much worse.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: So it's not something that has to define your life.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: It's just part of your life.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned a chrysalis, but when I think
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: about a chrystalist, I also think of emerging.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: And I think you're gonna know.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: When is the right time to sort of like come
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: out of your chrystalist and be around your friends again,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: whether that's your AA friends or other friends, and enter
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: the world again.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: But I think the point here is you will emerge.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: As a butterfly. Yes, thank you all, You're welcome.
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: Thanks for digging deep with Menis I appreciate you all?
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate you. Ashley, thank you here.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: I Oh, that smile is worth everything.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an example of a caller who's almost almost
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: gotten to where she's going and just needed in one
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: more push in the right direction because she's already there.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I have a couple of questions in a different vein here.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Our next question comes from Jay Dear Chelsea, I'd like
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: to start off by thanking you for always being an
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: advocate for women who have chosen not to have children.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: You make me feel.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Validated and seen and heard in a world dominated by
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: a society that continues to value women becoming mothers over
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: women prioritizing themselves. I'm almost thirty, successful and live in
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: a mid sized coastal town in the South. I do
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the majority of my dating through HINGE, and I'm genuinely
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: looking for a long term relationship. I've always known that
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: I never wanted to be a mother and have ended
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: a relationship in the past because of this. Here comes
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: the part I need advice about. For the past year
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: or so, I've been bringing this topic up on the
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: first date. I hate having my time wasted and give
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: the same respect to others, so I typically start by
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: asking do you want children? So far, the answer is
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: always yes. I wonder if they think that's what I
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: want to hear, if it's a cultural thing since I'm
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: in the South and having children is as normal as breathing,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: or if it has to do with their age. The
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: average age for men I'm dating is around thirty five.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: But since I know I'm not changing my mind about this,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I would never expect someone else to. Is it possible
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: I'm putting too much weight on this topic. I hate
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the idea of being the woman that a man dates
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: before they eventually decide to go and find the mother
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: of their children. And I refuse to believe that because
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I don't want children, then it means I have to
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: be single forever. Do you have any advice on dating
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: in my position or a different way to go about it?
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Chelsea Jay.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's better to be upfront before you go
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: on the date then, I mean to speak to your
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: experience when you're talking to the guys and going just
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: so you know, Like, I've been on a lot of
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: dates and it's been an issue. It's come up a
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: lot of times that I'm meeting men who want children
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm not interested in that, So I just want
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: to get that out of the way. I mean, that's
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: pretty like an aggressive way to go about it. But
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: if you don't even want to waste your time with
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: a first date where you can kind of collect that
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: information and you want to get to the bottom of it.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, then that's what you should do. You should
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: just preemptively be like just so you know, Like, I know,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: we're only going on a first date, so I don't
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: want to sound crazy, but I don't want children, and
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I've been out with a lot of guys and that's
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: a deal breaker. So I just want to see if
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: you want kids, Like, maybe we should skip it. You
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: could just be upfront like that. I mean, I think
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the more natural thing to do is to go on
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: a date and have the conversation then, but if you
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: are sick of that, then this is a good way
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to avoid having that happen again.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it's ticket right on your profile, like not
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: interested in having kids?
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: Would you do that?
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: I think they should have they should have that as
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: a category, right. I think it would be really really
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: helpful because ultimately a lot of people are going on
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: dating apps to meet somebody to potentially do that with,
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: and so if you're not into that, I think it
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: would be really helpful if the apps themselves had a
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: category like what is your what's your stance on this?
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: You know, or put a picture of a baby up
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: on your profile app and with a cross, like a
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: big X over it.
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: That's a good way to let people know perfect. But
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: can I say one other thing on this? There was
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: a question as well about like why is it why
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: do all these guys say that they definitely want to
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: have kids, And I honestly think because it is the
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: faults to want to be a parent, Like we're kind
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: of living in this culture, which is very what they
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: call pro natalist, like parents are seen as more valid
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: than non parents. It's just like the normal thing to do.
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: I think that a lot of the time when guys
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: are saying that, it's just reflective of the fact that
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: having kids and becoming a parent is seen more as
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: like a woman's issue. It's something that we are taught
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: to think about since we first having sex, since we
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: first get our period, as in like, don't get pregnant,
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: be careful, you don't get pregnant until you're such and
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: such age and until you've met the right person.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: So we're kind of like indoctrinated with this, not indoctrinated,
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: but we're encouraged to really think about it from a
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: very early age, and I just don't think And I
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: think that shines the light actually on how much more
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: education there needs to be for men in terms of
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: like the responsibilities of parenthood and do you know what
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: it actually means to be a father? And you know, so,
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: I just think it's kind of interesting that you've got
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: all these guys who are immediately saying, yeah, I want
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: to be a dad, and it just makes me question
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: if they've really thought about what that actually would mean
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: for their lives.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean surprised to even
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: hear men say yeah, we want kids, we want kids
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: like usually I would. I think they'd be open to
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: not having them since they don't do anything.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Our next caller is Krinn Krinne says, through doing the
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: work in counseling, I'm realizing that marriage isn't really what
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I want for myself anymore.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: Same can be said about kids.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I'm realizing that I'm absolutely happy being a cool and
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: loving aunt to my nieces and nephews. I know that
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: you can relate to all of this, which is why
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I need your help. Where are all the thirty somethings
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: single and child free people at I ask because two
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: more of my closest friends are expecting their first baby,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: one shortly after the other. While I'm thrilled that this
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: is where their journey has led them, it's not the
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: same for me. And as excited as I am that
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I get to have two more munchkins to spoil my
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: group of friends that I can text last minute to
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: see if they want to get away for the weekend
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: is quickly dwindling. So some have suggested the app meetup,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: which I have but still feels a liffy. What would
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: you suggest to help me connect more with this community?
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Karin Hikerin hiker In Hello, Hello, Oh.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Here, I'm here, yay.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: And I should mention that Krin is a teacher, which
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: is great birth control. I am sure she just jetted
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: out from class.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 46:21
  Speaker 8: Yes, Yes, it's a Yes, it is birth control, but
• 46:24
  Speaker 8: it's also I do love it.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's nice, that's great.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: And our guest is Ruby Warrington, who wrote the book
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Women Without Kids, so she is perfect for her questions.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Oh hello Ruby, perfect.
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: Yes, the subtitle lift my book is the Revolutionary Rise
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: of an Unsung Sisterhood, and that piece unsung sisterhood speaks
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: to this exact thing you're talking about so often when
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: you decide you don't want to have children, and it
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: feels like I'm the only one. More I realized the
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: more I started talking about it, asking people about it,
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: looking on social media for other people who felt the
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: same way, I was like, Oh, there's so many of us.
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: We just don't have anything to kind of like show
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: that we're women without kids, because what we have in
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: common is the lack of a child, right, And there
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: aren't like after school groups for us or meet up
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: groups for us. Like there's so much stuff that brings
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: mums together to find other mums, but for women without kids,
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: there isn't that same thing. And what I wanted one
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: of the things I wanted to do with the book
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: was to kind of start to unite us, even just
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: by having more people go hey, me over here, and
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: what about me over here, and like what do we need?
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: What kind of stuff would we like to do together?
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: Like I can totally imagine a future where there are
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: child free holiday vacation companies, and I don't know all
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: sorts of things that actually cater to specifically to child
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: free people. I did actually go on one of the
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: Virgin cruises over Christmas this year, and they are child
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: free cruises. Oh okay, Well, everybody on board didn't have
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: their kids with them, and I'm assuming that a fair
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: number of them probably don't have children. So the other
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: thing you might be interested to know, as much as
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: it can feel like with our only ones in our groups,
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: I think it's like almost fifty percent of women age
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: seventeen to forty five in the US do not have children.
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: So actually there are far more of us out there
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: than you think. It might just take a little bit
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: of looking around to find people, you know. I'm hosting
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: a women without Kids retreat, like an in person retreat
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: at Cropola and Massachusetts in the middle of June, for
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: the express purpose of kind of giving people an opportunity
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: to meet each other. But social media is a great
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: place to find this plenty of kind of like child
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: ree influences.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, only where to start, you know.
• 48:35
  Speaker 8: And like I said, I'm very happy that they're having kids,
• 48:38
  Speaker 8: but my group of friends to hang out with is
• 48:41
  Speaker 8: just really dwindling. I've noticed that the communication between us
• 48:46
  Speaker 8: is definitely at a blow because I'm just connecting differently
• 48:51
  Speaker 8: than they are.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: And which makes sense.
• 48:52
  Speaker 8: You know, their kids are having friends, they're getting older,
• 48:55
  Speaker 8: they're getting more involved, so less need for me in
• 48:58
  Speaker 8: their life. But at the same time, it's like, but
• 49:01
  Speaker 8: I'm still part of their life. So unless it's for
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: a sporting game or a holiday or a birthday, there's
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: not too much for me to you know, hang around
• 49:11
  Speaker 8: with them.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: So where do I start?
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, go on my Instagram page and look
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: at all the comments from women who are single, like
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: on any of my child free videos, and go look
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: at their profile. Where do you live.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I'm in New York.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go, I mean that's half of my followers are.
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: Fround zero ground zero without kids.
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: They're everywhere.
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you can go out to anyone in the street
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: and be like, hey, won want to hang out.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: It's going to be it's it's once you start, it's
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: going to just be easier. It'll all come together. But
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I understand you're kind of like feeling at a crossroads.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: But literally, go on my Instagram page, find the people
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: who are commenting about how great their lives are as
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: single women, child free women, and look where they live
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and if they live near your area, reach out to them.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sure what area of New York are you in.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: I'm about an hour north of the city.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, so and Ruby. It goes the same for
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Ruby Warrington. Go to her site. She all she talks
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: about is child free and find women and go, hey,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: express your situation. You're gonna find so many people that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: are in the same exact position as you that are like, oh, yeah,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: you're right. And also start going out alone a little bit.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to do it all the time,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: but go to a bar if you get invited by, like,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: you know, one of your friends from school, another teacher,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: like say yes to things that you normally wouldn't say
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: yes to, so you can come broaden your horizons and
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: find out what else is happening out there.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll also connect you with there's a group of
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: child free gals in New York specifically that are dear
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Chelsea fans.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I will put you onto Oh Catherine, what the fuck?
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Why don't you just up with that?
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: Hey, look, the unsung Sistered is out there. I'm actually
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: moving back to New York at the end of the
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: summer as well. I hear this from so many people,
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: and I know there's such a hunger to meet other
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: people to just socialize and hang out with, you know,
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: who aren't like coming in baby vomit.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: Or comes with like a whole nother baggage and just.
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: Kind of like sleep deprived. Yeah, exactly.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: It's not just the baby.
• 51:02
  Speaker 8: It's the baby bag, it's the diapers, it's the toys,
• 51:05
  Speaker 8: it's the pack and play.
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, right, and I'm thinking about starting some
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: kind of a regular meet up group. So if you
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: go onto my Instagram and follow that, they'll be news
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: about whatever that looks like in the future just as well.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say too is Bumble also has
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: a friend mode, so you can actually turn it to
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I'm just looking for friends, see all kinds of friends.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: You're looking for female, child free whatever that.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I think that's really on your social media. It's fine
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: to be like advertising that, you know what I mean,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: being like, Hey, I'm just here single, have no children,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: not looking for any, but it would love some other
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: child free people to hang out with or whatever. Just
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: get a little bit more creative, change up the kind
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: of dynamic of your social structure, and I think it'll
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: be easy. Your normal fun pretty like smart, You've got
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: everything that people would want to be friends with.
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: I heard someone say this to me just yesterday. I
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: can't remember the exact quote, but it's kind of like
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: when your friends have kids, they'll disappear for five years
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: and then they'll be back. So remember that first five
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: years they're going to be very all consumed with the
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: newness and the sleep deprivation and all of the things.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: And then the more independent their kids.
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: Are, they'll be like, hey, where is she?
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: Hi?
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: Can we hang out? So, like, don't give up on
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: don't give up on them just because they're not available
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: to you now. You are living very different lives right now.
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: But that's not going to be the case forever. Like,
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: if there's a strong friendship, it's gonna last. If anything,
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: I would say, give them moments to like, send them
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: a funny meme, send them a nice voice note I'm
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: thinking of you. Just let them know that you're there
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: and that you could not that you appreciate that. Like
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: they've got other stuff going on right now, but like
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: you're here, and yes, see to hang and here for
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: a cocktail if you want to forget that you've got
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: kids for a night.
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: You know where I am.
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: You know, right, be that person in their life as well.
• 52:50
  Speaker 8: Sure, you know, it's like the like the pendulum right now,
• 52:53
  Speaker 8: it's swinging in the direction where we're not as close,
• 52:56
  Speaker 8: but yeah it could.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: It's going to swing swing back the other. But yeah,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: that's a good, great, excellent point as well.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: And they're going to also need your help because you're
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: a teacher, so you're going to have for that they're
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: going to need access to when their kids are growing up.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's already happening. Yeah, what do I
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: do or where can I find? What do you suggest?
• 53:14
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you're right, Yeah, all great points to consider and
• 53:18
  Speaker 8: just take in too.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and be loud about your child free stance so
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: that you are attracting people that are also feeling that
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: same way, you know, like that could be your thing, like, oh,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I'm child free and single, I'm looking for other child
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: free people. Who else is?
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: And get activated that way. There's no shame in that game.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: It's good to pronounce what you're about.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: Taking your lead.
• 53:37
  Speaker 8: You're normalizing it and it's like, yeah, maybe kids in
• 53:40
  Speaker 8: a marriage isn't for me, and yeah, make it more known,
• 53:44
  Speaker 8: normalize it.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: It's okay, Yes, cool.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Well, Karen, you got your marching orders. I'll hook you
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: up with the New York gals as well. Who are
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: the dear tel.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, please, I would much appreciate that. Yes, right,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: thank you so much.
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: We'll talk to you soon.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: Let us know how it goes.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much much.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Bye, Honey, bye, thank you, Bye bye Ruby Bye. What
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: a cute she is. I didn't know we had a
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: fucking group of child free people. Can we do?
• 54:13
  Speaker 7: No?
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Remember, they keep writing in be like, can you add
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: me to the list? I told you, I told you.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Where do they congregate?
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: I actually don't know.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I should check in with them, but I got like
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: several of them together on an email thread and they're like, well,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: let you know how it goes, Bloper please, yeah, yes, yeah,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: I'll connect her. I knew she was East cousin, I
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: didn't know if she was New York.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: So that's that's perfect.
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: But let's take a.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Quick break, and I actually have one more quick question
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: for you when we come back, which is.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: Sort of the opposite of the question we just covered.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: And we're back.
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: We're back.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Jen. Hey, girls, my name
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: is Jen Cod and I'm seeking advice from a child
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: free woman's perspective on how much I should really expect
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: from my best friend when it comes to my children.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: We have been best friends for twelve years, and to
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: this day, she prefers to not hang out if my
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: boys are with me, ages ten and six. I definitely
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: don't think they should be around every time we hang out,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: but she has never made any effort to bond with
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: them or get to know them. I try my hardest
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: to never cancel plans with her, but sometimes I ask
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: if it's okay for the boys to come, and she
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: reschedules every time. She does claim she wants kids, just
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: not yet. But I don't understand why she doesn't want
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: anything to do with mine, seeing as how they are
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: such a big part of my life.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Much love Jen, Okay, Well Jen, as the Devil's advocate,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I would just say, are your boys of fucking pain?
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: And they ask to hang out with a they ask
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: yourself that question because maybe they are, Maybe they're very rambunctious.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe that really annoys her.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know how old did she say at ten
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: and six?
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: So probably yeah, Like that's not for everyone. And while
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: it's disappointing, and I would always make an effort for
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: any one of my friends that have children, I not
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: an effort to hang out with them, but an effort
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: to know about them and get to know them, or
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to be on playdates with them.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I know it's your best friend and you want her
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: to be more interested, but I don't think you can
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: impose that upon her. Your life choices are not her
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: life choices, and while you may want her to care,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: you can't control the way she feels about that. And
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: maybe your kids are just not for her. Like, I
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: don't know a lot of people that aren't mothers that
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: want to hang out with a ten and six year
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: old boy.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I don't, especially ones that are not related to Technically, yeah, yeah,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: my friend has has two boys and she's one of
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: my closest friends.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: She's never asked me to hang out with them. And
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: it's not because I wouldn't. I would, but she's never
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: asked me, So I just I don't think that that's
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: a fair request. What do you think, Ruby, Yeah, well.
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: I think that. I mean, I'll speak for myself. Some
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: people just aren't good with kids. One of the I
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: think one of the reasons I never wanted to have children,
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: is I didn't really like being a child, Like I
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: didn't even know how to be with kids when I
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: was a kid, Do you know what I mean? Like,
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: I I don't know, I just don't really know how
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: to talk to kids. I don't really know what they're
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: interested in. I kind of clam up around kids, like
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: I'm just not a kid person on any level. And
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: so yeah, it kind of like completely changes the dynamic
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: of a friend.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Hang.
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: If I think I'm going to be spending the day
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: with my friend and then her kids are there as well,
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: because I just get really kind of self conscious and
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: sort of like are we talking to them?
• 57:24
  Speaker 6: And if so, what do we talk about?
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: Because I've got no idea, And like there's also other
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: stuff that could be going on under the surface, Right,
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: it could be that I don't know, maybe your friend
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: is would like to have children and can't for some
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: reason that you guys haven't had time to discuss. And
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: actually she doesn't really want to be in a situation
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: where she's constantly reminded of the fact that she hasn't
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: got there in her life yet. Like there's so many
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: things that could be going on that are kind of
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: resulting in this but yeah, I can understand how it
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: might feel hurtful.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: It's a distraction also to hang out with two kids,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Like then you're not really hanging with each other. It's
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: all about the kids, So like that's take away from
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: the friendship. And I understand she's saying once in a while,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: but I really don't think it's a it's a fair
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: demand of your friend to want to hang out with
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: your kids. You can't make somebody want to do something.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: And I think don't take it personally either, Like she's
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: not doing it to.
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: Be hurtful to you.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: She's just not interested in your kids. And I think
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: that's okay, just seeing as time with her is time
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: away from your kids. It's grown up time.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much, Ruby Warrington. I wish you
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: so much success. Thank you for being our guest today.
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: I mean, honestly, Chelsea.
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: After your Netflix special came out and then you produced
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: your genius, genius Diary of a Child Free Women real,
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: I literally was getting DMS and messages most days, several
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: messages most days.
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: Send Chelsea a copy of your book. Chelsea needs your book.
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: So thank you.
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: I'm so happy you've got the book and that you're
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: reading it. To have had this conversation with you and
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: have had the opportunity to answer some of your your
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: reading questions today, it's been really great. Thanks.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it has been Thank you so much.
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: Bye.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. Second shows have been added for those of you
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: coming to see my new stand up tour, which you
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: have to come because I'm having the best time. We
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: added a second show into Cincinnati, Los Angeles, which is
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: actually October thirteenth. There are still tickets for October thirteenth
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: show in Los Angeles. We added second shows in Chicago,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the Chicago Theater at Portland, Oregon, San Francisco. They're both
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: almost completely sold out. Detroit, Michigan, and then we added
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: a second show in Cincinnati in the daytime at five
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: o'clock PM. I'm doing my first show because I don't
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: have a night where I can go back, so we
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: added a second show at five pm, and the original
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: show is at eight pm. Original show is sold out.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Second show tickets are available Cincinnati. I'm also coming to
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Cleveland on October twentieth, and then I'll be in Columbus
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: October twenty first and Pittsburgh October twenty second. So those
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: three shows I still have tickets available, and you can
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: go to Chelsea Hamler dot com for other tickets and
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: other information. And if you want to buy some of
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: our merch, that's all available on Chelseahanmler dot com. And yeah, guys,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I'll see you on the road.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: com