Latest / Breaking Down Addiction / #12 Jay Booker: “Don’t Give Up” — From Addiction, Incarceration, and Trauma to Recovery, Fatherhood, and Helping Men Heal

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#12 Jay Booker: “Don’t Give Up” — From Addiction, Incarceration, and Trauma to Recovery, Fatherhood, and Helping Men Heal · Breaking Down Addiction

• 0:00
  Jay Booker: At 16, made the news.
• 0:02
  Jay Booker: My mom had no clue.
• 0:05
  Jay Booker: And I was looking at 23 years.
• 0:09
  Jay Booker: They were trying, they charged me as an adult.
• 0:19
  Jonny Phillip: Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Breaking Down Addiction, a podcast by National Addiction Specialists.
• 0:26
  Jonny Phillip: And I'm Johnny Phillip here, joined by Chad Elkin.
• 0:29
  Jonny Phillip: Hello.
• 0:30
  Jonny Phillip: And with today, our special guest is no other than Jay Booker.
• 0:34
  Jonny Phillip: Thank you for joining us today, Jay.
• 0:36
  Jonny Phillip: Thank you.
• 0:37
  Jonny Phillip: Um we've got to know each other over the years, but this is our first question I always love to ask is if you were sitting across from yourself in active addiction, if I was Jay, what would you say to him?
• 0:53
  Jay Booker: I would say don't give up.
• 0:57
  Jay Booker: I would say everything that happens to you doesn't define you.
• 1:05
  Jay Booker: And so um pick the positive and stay centered.
• 1:12
  Jay Booker: Um if that's with God, if that's with recovery, if that's with your family, if that's with whoever you love the most.
• 1:20
  Jonny Phillip: If I if I think about you as a person from the J that I've gotten to know, I think centered is a good definition of who you are as a person.
• 1:30
  Jonny Phillip: Like I see you as this like Zen balanced guy.
• 1:34
  Jonny Phillip: Am I correct there or are you are you still working on stuff?
• 1:38
  Speaker: There's a there's a active practice.
• 1:40
  Speaker: Um not always been that way.
• 1:43
  Speaker: Um a lot of things happened, and I leaned into that, and it's been the catapult to balancing and loving life every day.
• 1:54
  Speaker: And so I would say I'm practicing on a daily basis to stay centered, and I use a lot of modalities, and I'm very open to trying new things to yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Tell tell us about what's working for you these days.
• 2:08
  Speaker: So um, I did a breathwork session Sunday.
• 2:12
  Speaker: Um, I'm actively involved in the 12-step program, um, actively involved in uh private therapy, couples therapy.
• 2:22
  Speaker: Um let's see.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: That can be intense.
• 2:26
  Speaker: It's very important for it.
• 2:27
  Speaker: I I've learned to lean into uncomfortability.
• 2:31
  Speaker: Um it has provided a change that is positive.
• 2:37
  Speaker: And so I've learned to like kind of lean into what I don't want to do because it usually gives me the best results.
• 2:45
  Speaker: So um if I say how and what I do and why I do it is um I'm actively trying to be a better person and I I strive to kind of find more ways to do that.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Leaning into what's uncomfortable.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Um, we could call the episode that.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Um but also I want to do since you're doing breath work, I have never done that before.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: But I went to on-site last Friday and um this guy Sean came in who lives in Atlanta and he did a breath work exercise for I want to say it was 45 minutes, it felt like an hour.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I never realized how much your breath affects you as a person with depression, anxiety.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, by the end of it, there there are parts where I got lightheaded.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know if when you started doing that, that happened to you.
• 3:37
  Speaker: There is definitely things that happen with your body that um your breath is a powerful tool.
• 3:45
  Speaker: Um, and actually, Sean is who I went with.
• 3:48
  Speaker: He's a good friend of mine.
• 3:49
  Speaker: So with him in town, I try my hardest to show up and participate because yeah, I'm I like that stuff.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've I've I've dealt with that a lot myself, and like whenever I'm trying to feel in stressed, you know, I mean there's all kinds of different methods, you know, like the square square method of like box breathing.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, box breathing, exactly.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Of in for X number of seconds, five to seven seconds, pause, out for five to seven seconds, etc.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: And just going through the box.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Um, but it's amazing how that can de-stress you in a very, very small amount of time.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And the same thing with uh I've done hot yoga and stuff and they do you know same thing breathing in the air, meditation, things like that.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And uh it really does de-stress you, it's pretty amazing.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Um I'm interested in bringing Sean in here sometime to NAS or all our employees to do a breath work exercise.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And if anybody in Listener Land wanna meet Sean and do a breath exercise for you or for your clinic or whatever, please get in touch with us.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but um we can chat if you want to be here.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you grew up in a home shaped by addiction.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Um what part of that helped shape you?
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: How did that affect how did that affect you?
• 5:09
  Speaker: You know, it's um personally I I don't know if I'm ex I can explain it right besides learning from all the mistakes.
• 5:19
  Speaker: Um survival skills were set up at a very early age.
• 5:24
  Speaker: I learned to lean on them and they worked.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: And so was this with your parents?
• 5:30
  Speaker: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:31
  Speaker: So um not physical abuse, but verbal and emotional.
• 5:36
  Speaker: Um never was good enough, always could have done better, very low self-esteem.
• 5:44
  Speaker: And then in the outside of the home was a as a youth, very successful baseball player, um, well known, had a shot if I would have kind of not taken another path.
• 5:59
  Speaker: And um, and so there was multiple things happening um as a kid, and then playing parts, putting on masks, and then hiding the lie that's going on inside the home.
• 6:14
  Speaker: And so dad was an alcoholic, mom battled with mental health, codependent, um, addictions outside of drugs.
• 6:24
  Speaker: Like, you know, we're talking money and shopping and buying anything that made her feel good.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Addiction comes in all shapes and it does, yeah.
• 6:34
  Speaker: And uh, you know, not knowing then, we suffered for those things.
• 6:40
  Speaker: And as they didn't know as well, because today we have a lot more information.
• 6:46
  Speaker: Um now looking back, it it it like it molded me into, you know, obviously doing the wrong thing and then taking that and being introduced to the right thing and then making that change.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: It amazes me how much of a person we become or what defines us is how we're raised, right?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So we might not even know it from high school to college, or maybe we don't go to college because of that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: In our 20s, you know, you're you're mentioning these things with your parents, like the alcoholism I'm sure affected you, the the spending, the instability.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And we have touched on you, um you and I have touched on your baseball career.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm I'm interested in knowing this because I know that you had a legit chance to really become something special and that you were you were highlighted growing up as a baseball player.
• 7:41
  Speaker: It's a good way to put I've never heard of that.
• 7:43
  Speaker: It it you know, I minimize it because it was um youth.
• 7:50
  Speaker: And right when I had the opportunity to make the high school team and the coaches already knew me, that was right at the time when I stopped going to school.
• 8:00
  Speaker: I used started using drugs.
• 8:02
  Speaker: And my my first period class in ninth grade was the baseball coach that didn't know that you know, he never met me because I never went.
• 8:12
  Speaker: And so it's like that was my childhood dream growing up is to play that game as long as I could.
• 8:20
  Speaker: It was all baseball, it was baseball, everything in that house.
• 8:24
  Speaker: Yeah, my dad was the coach, my mom was the team mom.
• 8:27
  Speaker: We played all year round.
• 8:30
  Speaker: Every day it wasn't raining outside.
• 8:32
  Speaker: We're out in the backyard with the neighborhood and just getting better and better.
• 8:37
  Speaker: And um, so yeah, I I I miss baseball still at this age.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: It's a tough thing to think about later on in life, like what could have been.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Um, I I fortunately lived my whole life wanting to be a musician, and I actually got to go down that path and go as far as I really possibly could take it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I could have taken it further, but um I wouldn't be sitting here today if I did.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Um but let's let's talk about how so baseball was such a thing, and you had some charges, some incarceration.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Is that what affected baseball in your life at that time?
• 9:17
  Speaker: So my parents ended up so let's quick story.
• 9:22
  Speaker: Um my dad was the coach, it was very bad.
• 9:27
  Speaker: We were treated different than the rest of the team.
• 9:30
  Speaker: We were expected at a higher level.
• 9:32
  Speaker: In some cases, looking back, it made us better.
• 9:36
  Speaker: Um, but as a youth trying to build on survival mode, unsafe house, um, me and my brother kind of teamed up and pushed back.
• 9:50
  Speaker: And then we said we wasn't playing unless he stopped coaching.
• 9:54
  Speaker: We don't want you to come to the games.
• 9:57
  Speaker: It got real um it went outside of the house.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Was this because your dad's drinking?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 10:06
  Speaker: Okay, yeah.
• 10:06
  Speaker: So um, you know, my personal story is a beer can, it was always blamed on a beer can.
• 10:13
  Speaker: Um, it's like a trauma response when I see a Budweiser can.
• 10:18
  Speaker: I I think of my dad.
• 10:20
  Speaker: Um and my family or my mom blamed everything that we never had on that.
• 10:27
  Speaker: So it was like a it was like the the big golden uh statue in the house that we walked around and we had to maneuver through a weekend or no baseball games, it rained.
• 10:43
  Speaker: We we didn't we beg for nothing to get canceled because then we would have to kind of deal with that.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Um was the drinking starting to affect his coaching and the way that he would show up?
• 10:55
  Speaker: He was very uh he he did his best and handled it well.
• 11:01
  Speaker: He was functioning.
• 11:03
  Speaker: Um, but with that, he treated us different, just us three.
• 11:08
  Speaker: Um, and so nobody ever really saw what we saw, and then we never talked about it.
• 11:15
  Speaker: And so it was like a it was a family secret.
• 11:18
  Speaker: Um and at that around the 11, 12 mark, we then stood but pushed back.
• 11:28
  Speaker: It was me and my brother against my dad.
• 11:30
  Speaker: My mom was caught in the middle, and she ended up asking us.
• 11:34
  Speaker: They were she would have managed with it.
• 11:38
  Speaker: Um and she left because we asked her to.
• 11:42
  Speaker: And so the day she got a divorce, we went rampant and picked the wrong people to hang out with.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Is this when addiction started happening?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Addiction started.
• 11:54
  Speaker: Addiction was uh, you know, we were we were drinking their alcohol before um your pants.
• 12:02
  Speaker: And putting water back in it and stuff, you know, as as adolescents, but when it when he left, the the pressure, the reins went off, and we could then manipulate mom and you know, tell her anything, and she would believe us and love her, God rest her soul.
• 12:20
  Speaker: And uh, we would tell her we could get away with anything, and she just loved us to death.
• 12:26
  Speaker: And at that rate, we went down a dark path quick.
• 12:31
  Speaker: And um financially we had to deal with that.
• 12:36
  Speaker: And I remember at an early age asking mom to if I can have three dollars for lunch, and there was a morning where she broke down and started crying, and like financially she didn't have it, and that was that that pivotal of like, I feel like I have to be the man of the house.
• 12:57
  Speaker: And as my brother had his own experience, but similar, we started making money and stopped asking mom for money and started providing for herself.
• 13:08
  Speaker: And was this from dealing at that point?
• 13:10
  Speaker: Okay, yeah.
• 13:11
  Speaker: So that's when the the the using came with the dealing, and the dealing um we knew the right people, we got what we needed, and then we it it escalated quickly.
• 13:26
  Speaker: Um and then the obviously the the lifestyle comes with it, and so uh fortunately I unfortunately I thought I had to live up to the lifestyle at the age of 15.
• 13:42
  Speaker: And dude, that's heavy.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: You weren't you you didn't even have a legal driver's license at that point, I'm sure.
• 13:48
  Speaker: No, and so I I did what I did trying to still uh maintain and not have to ask anybody for help.
• 14:00
  Speaker: And so um it I there was 12 different ways I could have done, you know, something else that day.
• 14:08
  Speaker: And um so I ended up doing a uh catching a charge off of you know drug related.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And did you actually get caught with drugs or a deal gone bad?
• 14:20
  Speaker: Or no, I committed a robbery because I got um somebody took something from me, so I went back, and when I went back, it it was three of us, and it was an aggravated robbery.
• 14:34
  Speaker: And I was a month after I turned 16, it was like a waiting period of planning trying to get my stuff back because I owed and I needed um and that was and I taught myself into handling it myself without asking for help.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure this kind of shook down to your brother and your mom, too, because your mom was struggling to afford food for the kids and the family and everything, and then you get busted at this point.
• 15:04
  Speaker: Are you in juvenile?
• 15:05
  Speaker: So I was arrested um the same day at school with um a gun on me, and so it was at 16, made the news.
• 15:18
  Speaker: My mom had no clue.
• 15:20
  Speaker: Wow, and I was looking at 23 years.
• 15:25
  Speaker: They were trying, they charged me as an adult.
• 15:28
  Speaker: I waited two months in juvenile, waiting to be charged or try to fight it, and I was begging to go to, you know, the the juvenile detention centers till I was 18.
• 15:41
  Speaker: Like that was my best case scenario, and they didn't, they charged me, they bound me over, walked me straight to booking.
• 15:50
  Speaker: Um, and I have uh I was legally charged as a convicted felon at the age of six.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: So they charged you as an adult?
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: They did, okay.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: So what what happened there?
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: How long were you?
• 16:03
  Speaker: So I was um I was incarcerated for eight and a half months in the county jail solitary, as uh they couldn't put us, they couldn't put us with the adults, and so they had to rearrange first juvenile charges as an adult in Franklin or Williamson County.
• 16:21
  Speaker: Oh my god.
• 16:22
  Speaker: Um and we ended up cleaning out the medical pod.
• 16:26
  Speaker: We had our own cells, and they ended, we had it, I was sentenced.
• 16:31
  Speaker: I took a I played guilty to robbery and aggravated assault, and they gave me one year day for day in the county jail with nine years probation.
• 16:41
  Speaker: And I eight and a half months into that day for day, we wasn't getting school, and so that was parents and lawyers were helping to try to get us out of that situation, and so we ended up getting approved to go to an alternative school or some sort of school because I was obviously um I got expelled that day.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: So from like 16 to 17 essentially, you're not getting any school.
• 17:10
  Speaker: No, no, yeah, correct.
• 17:12
  Speaker: Yeah, um, and so I I ended up friends of family and through church, I ended up getting accepted into a private school.
• 17:20
  Speaker: Um, I went to Pleasant View Christian to graduate.
• 17:25
  Speaker: Um and that is how I ended up, but I was on a probation to where I had to get my I had to graduate or get my GED or I'd violate nine years.
• 17:37
  Speaker: Um one year house arrest, curfew, uh weekly uh PO visits at the age of 16, going to school in Pleasant View, coming to Williamson County, leaving school early, not letting any of my peers know in school what I just went through.
• 17:59
  Speaker: So like I had like this, again, in a in a way of a house situation to a now I'm living two different lives.
• 18:08
  Speaker: Um I'm a one, I'm going to a Christian school.
• 18:12
  Speaker: I'm gonna graduate.
• 18:14
  Speaker: At the same time, I am a convicted felon dealing with the, you know, following the state guidelines of probation and parole board and love them.
• 18:27
  Speaker: They helped me.
• 18:28
  Speaker: They, you know, uh we tasked farmer was my hero.
• 18:32
  Speaker: He was my probation officer.
• 18:33
  Speaker: He helped me throughout it.
• 18:35
  Speaker: He also had to be a hard one because I ended up violating, and I wasn't done by no means at that.
• 18:46
  Speaker: That was just the start of it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: You you said you're uh you said we a little while ago.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: So uh was your brother involved?
• 18:54
  Speaker: It like did he No, so there was three of us that that did that crime, and um we all were charged separately, but we there was three of us in that jail tried as an adult.
• 19:07
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: And for high school, did you go on a fast track to graduate when you were 18, or was this did you was that delayed in your no uh so I went during the summer to catch up.
• 19:20
  Speaker: Okay, and so I graduated on time, but went to school fresh out of jail, just straight to school, and I had to go to school all summer long.
• 19:31
  Speaker: And then um I ended up graduating on time though.
• 19:34
  Speaker: Did you continue playing baseball?
• 19:37
  Speaker: So that was when it let that was where it stopped.
• 19:40
  Speaker: Um I uh eventually ended up playing in adult league and had a blast until I pulled both my glutes and it was the worst injury I've ever had.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: So But like this, these charges in high school, baseball career shot.
• 19:58
  Speaker: At that point, life was shot.
• 20:00
  Speaker: Life was shot.
• 20:01
  Speaker: Like, um as an 18-year-old fresh out of high school on probation for another eight year, nine or seven years, um excuse me, not being able to get a like looking at the future saying I can't get a career, uh they're gonna just um I naturally did what I already knew what to do.
• 20:29
  Speaker: And so I graduated high school, I already was selling drugs again.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Um you said you weren't done messing around at that.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I wasn't done, yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: So were you using and selling again?
• 20:40
  Speaker: Yes.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And how long did that go for?
• 20:43
  Speaker: So I was on probation, so there was a whole lot of manipulation on my youth.
• 20:48
  Speaker: So I would use what I could.
• 20:50
  Speaker: Um, I would strategize due to when I'm seeing my PO next.
• 20:56
  Speaker: And it was all managed around, you know, drug-related activity.
• 21:02
  Speaker: Um, from that age, from before I was arrested.
• 21:07
  Speaker: And then I just continued after it kind of I got comfortable.
• 21:12
  Speaker: And and then at 18, me and my brother got our first uh duplex together.
• 21:19
  Speaker: We finally moved out, and um he was involved in the same lifestyle, and that ended up getting us uh raided by Vice, and 30 days into that house, we lost it.
• 21:38
  Speaker: I then violated my nine years parole, and um good lawyers dropped reduced charges, and we um he got 60 days.
• 21:53
  Speaker: I had 60 days plus a violation.
• 21:55
  Speaker: So I moved, I went to went back to Williamson County because I'm from Nashville.
• 21:59
  Speaker: That was Davidson.
• 22:01
  Speaker: And so I ended up doing a viol or a reinstate on violation and it was a year.
• 22:08
  Speaker: And I ended up doing seven and a half on that.
• 22:11
  Speaker: So I did nine and a half months at 18.
• 22:14
  Speaker: Um got out.
• 22:17
  Speaker: Naturally did exist.
• 22:19
  Speaker: I I l uh you know, back then you had to grab the newspaper and look for a job and go knock on the doors.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: And you have these felony charges.
• 22:27
  Speaker: I had the felony charges.
• 22:28
  Speaker: I knocked on a couple doors for a couple weeks and then started selling again.
• 22:35
  Speaker: And every time I started again, it got worse.
• 22:39
  Speaker: The drug changed, my drug of choice changed, and um the severity of danger changed.
• 22:49
  Speaker: It just kept getting deeper, bigger.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: What what drugs were you tell us about the drugs that you were using kind of from the start to Yeah?
• 22:58
  Speaker: So the first one, you know, obviously I always say I believe that marijuana is a gateway drug.
• 23:04
  Speaker: Every time I bought marijuana, the drug dealer had more drugs available.
• 23:10
  Speaker: So did I.
• 23:11
  Speaker: So when we never really sell one, it was let's make the most money.
• 23:16
  Speaker: And so it was started with weed, and then alcohol obviously was easily accessible.
• 23:24
  Speaker: Um, Laura tabs were introduced before jail.
• 23:29
  Speaker: So, like, and then at that time, ecstasy was big.
• 23:33
  Speaker: Uh, cocaine was big, and um Laura tabs were huge around that time.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: This is not the the first time we've heard this on the pod.
• 23:44
  Speaker: Yeah, that was uh, you know, the the Xanax, the Valium was a very um, I remember when Valiums were popular, like that was a street drug that everybody had.
• 23:57
  Speaker: Um so there was pills and ecstasy and cocaine.
• 24:02
  Speaker: Um my story, uh I did not do heroin or crack um or meth.
• 24:10
  Speaker: But like those are very obviously popular.
• 24:15
  Speaker: Um but I ended up my main drug of choice was oxycottin and cocaine.
• 24:21
  Speaker: And so um I wasn't an IV user.
• 24:24
  Speaker: Uh uh put everything up my nose.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Well, well, thank God he didn't get into that other stuff.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: You might not be sitting here.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hep CIV, all that stuff, right?
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Overdose.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So you when did you get ultimately sober?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Was that 2010?
• 24:40
  Speaker: So yeah, 2010.
• 24:41
  Speaker: So uh one last story I was using so bad, and um I was intertwined with some dangerous people, and I was paranoid that I was going to go down with them.
• 24:57
  Speaker: And so I turned myself into my PO and told them that I've been manipulating drug tests and I'm using, I need help.
• 25:06
  Speaker: And when I found out that he had like he was by law, had to help me, not just lock me up.
• 25:14
  Speaker: Um, I that was the first time I ever told the truth on like that level.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And good on you for that.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Not a lot of people give that information up.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with the potential ramifications in your mind of Yeah.
• 25:30
  Speaker: It was, it was, I mean, obviously scary.
• 25:32
  Speaker: Um, and then I also learned the horrors of addiction when I he was like, you have 30 days to pass a drug test or get into treatment.
• 25:42
  Speaker: And I was an uninsured addict looking for treatment with no resources.
• 25:48
  Speaker: And I went one two places.
• 25:52
  Speaker: I went to uh the Salvation Army, which was more of a housing treatment, uh like it held you couldn't use drugs there, but it wasn't anything about addiction.
• 26:03
  Speaker: And so um at the time, and I left after three days, used.
• 26:09
  Speaker: Then I went and tried to go out of town to detox myself and couldn't.
• 26:14
  Speaker: I got a ride out of there within four hours with drugs in the car ready for me.
• 26:20
  Speaker: And I ended up turning myself in that day, failing for everything that I could do because I knew it was over.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: And where did they put you?
• 26:30
  Speaker: They violated me for the last time and I had to finit finish the remainder of my sentence.
• 26:34
  Speaker: So I went to prison this time for 18 months on a voluntary protest.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: So you were detoxing in prison technically.
• 26:43
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: What was that like?
• 26:46
  Speaker: Six months after my first daughter was born.
• 26:48
  Speaker: Wow.
• 26:49
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:50
  Speaker: Yeah, so it and again, the story of I have no future.
• 26:56
  Speaker: I I like um consequences were not that scary to me.
• 27:04
  Speaker: Uh, because of the the situation in in when I was 16, and I was I thought my life was over at that, you know, and as my kids get that age, I look at them and go, oh man, I was this age.
• 27:19
  Speaker: You know, because it's hard to realize um looking back, I I because my body is have been through it all.
• 27:30
  Speaker: And um, so yeah, it's it's a it's a wild ride.
• 27:34
  Speaker: And when I in in prison was, I thought, the the last straw.
• 27:40
  Speaker: And it it almost was.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Um you still had more left in you.
• 27:47
  Speaker: Well, there was a situation in prison where I I were I always tell this in my recovery story is like I found a Delata on the ground in prison.
• 27:58
  Speaker: And everybody, that was when I was really introduced to IV.
• 28:02
  Speaker: It was inside prison.
• 28:03
  Speaker: I did all this drug activity and never saw needles.
• 28:07
  Speaker: Then when I went to prison, there was a lot of needles, and they were all shooting Delotta, and I found one, and I swore up in that I would never use again.
• 28:18
  Speaker: I was never, I was never selling again.
• 28:21
  Speaker: Um I'm in, I'm doing everything I can to rehabilitate myself this time.
• 28:28
  Speaker: And I go to my cell, I put the blind up, and I have a conversation with God, knowing that he's the only one that knows.
• 28:39
  Speaker: And I do it.
• 28:41
  Speaker: And I remember every phone call after that to home, I was lying.
• 28:49
  Speaker: Every time I said, I'm gonna get a job, I'm gonna do that.
• 28:53
  Speaker: Like I didn't believe myself at that moment after that shift.
• 28:58
  Speaker: And um got out a couple weeks later.
• 29:02
  Speaker: My daughter was sick when she was born.
• 29:06
  Speaker: I mean, I was drinking her hydrocardion cough syrup.
• 29:11
  Speaker: I like it just started back into addiction, and I ended up catching a felony drug charge that after the close the prison sentence ended the nine years probation.
• 29:26
  Speaker: So I was finally free.
• 29:28
  Speaker: And then I did the same thing, and then when I caught that charge, um it hurt.
• 29:36
  Speaker: Like it was, I thought I felt the freedom of that restraint, and then I just did it again.
• 29:44
  Speaker: And so that time I went straight to a lawyer and was like, what can I do?
• 29:50
  Speaker: And he was like, You need to drug treatment.
• 29:52
  Speaker: And I went to still no insurance, went to a state-funded Pathfinder's.
• 30:00
  Speaker: It's not here anymore, but and I've been clean ever since.
• 30:05
  Speaker: That's great.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: What was that date that you got?
• 30:08
  Speaker: January 26, 2010.
• 30:10
  Speaker: And how old were you at this point in process?
• 30:11
  Speaker: I was 26.
• 30:12
  Speaker: 26 years old.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And so um recovery, you know, you became a father.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I guess you never had.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Um what does fatherhood mean today for you?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: You know, how did those healings change how um how you show up for your kids?
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've touched on the first kid a little bit.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that and and also your yeah, Allie.
• 30:38
  Speaker: I was 18 months clean when Allie was born.
• 30:42
  Speaker: And fatherhood is is like I said earlier, it's like I I've almost learned from all of my mistakes.
• 30:50
  Speaker: So I I mean, yeah, I always will say I'm working on it.
• 30:55
  Speaker: Um but what not to be is what I got, what I need to do off of.
• 31:04
  Speaker: And so, like remembering as a child what hurt my feelings, how you said that hurt my feelings.
• 31:11
  Speaker: I'm always present in that mind frame of like when I talk to my kids or any kids, um, or anybody really, is I'm mindful of like, you know, what my point is really trying to express.
• 31:26
  Speaker: And yes, I'm frustrated, but I wanna I want to meet you with love.
• 31:31
  Speaker: And um, and so I've I've fathered, thank God I had girls, I think.
• 31:38
  Speaker: I I've always said they are the best.
• 31:42
  Speaker: And I don't know if I would have been able to father the same with boys.
• 31:49
  Speaker: Uh, because me and my brother, I watched my dad, it was a very different dynamic.
• 31:55
  Speaker: It was me and my brother, my dad had a brother, like there wasn't girls in my family on that side, and um so when a little girl walks in, I my heart got so big, and I just I I acted different.
• 32:14
  Speaker: And so I've always kind of used all that, and it's it's just created, and then me not being there in the beginning, she was around three and a half, four, don't really remember it, but I was I did the whole guilty parent, pay for it, you know.
• 32:32
  Speaker: I did the stages of trying to rewrite my wrongs.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Silver lining there is that she doesn't probably remember much of that period.
• 32:42
  Speaker: Yeah, yes, and due to recovery, I've I've been really honest and open, and it's helped her.
• 32:50
  Speaker: Uh, I'm not that naive parent.
• 32:54
  Speaker: I and so I use that to really go, hey, I understand, and let's sit down and talk about it.
• 33:00
  Speaker: These are the outcomes that you can get.
• 33:03
  Speaker: Which one would you pick?
• 33:05
  Speaker: And I don't really um I've learned to not make decisions for people.
• 33:11
  Speaker: Uh uh, I will help them with all gathering all the information and let them learn.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: And and you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
• 33:21
  Speaker: Right.
• 33:21
  Speaker: And so it's it's all inclusive with everybody in my life, from you know, who I help to my kids to it's like I'm not a uh because I come from that lifestyle and what how I didn't retain.
• 33:36
  Speaker: If if somebody talked to me the way I talk to me, I might have done something different.
• 33:44
  Speaker: But I I didn't really have that type of guidance or people that viewed it that way.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Something a little heavy here is our parents give us the framework on how to become parents technically, for for good or bad.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: And so did you see some of yourself in your dad?
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Or your dad and yourself when you were being locked up so many different times and your daughters being born.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Like how what was the shift there?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you probably didn't want to be your dad to boys.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: That's probably you that's why you thought you wanted to be able to do that.
• 34:22
  Speaker: Yeah, like my I meant and and I f you know, my dad, me and my dad ended up having a great relationship.
• 34:30
  Speaker: Um, but I also learned how to accept people where they're at, and some people don't change.
• 34:36
  Speaker: And so like there was a lot of learning to do with that, but yes, it was I my whole motivation was to not be him, and I did everything different, and it was out of you know hurt that led me to love, and um, and then I got to circle back and love him even though he had no clue.
• 35:02
  Speaker: And so it it's uh, but yes, the the boys um because I have friends with boys and they jump from the ceilings, and girls just don't do that, right?
• 35:15
  Speaker: So it's like I'm remorseful, and I can understand why my dad was, you know, you know, frustrated or overwhelmed, and I had no clue what was going on.
• 35:28
  Speaker: I'm just adding to it.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Two boys going hog wild.
• 35:32
  Speaker: And that's what we did.
• 35:33
  Speaker: Yeah, you know, that's what we did.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: So you wanted to break that cycle, uh, I guess.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Um did did your did your dad grow did your like grandparents did were they did they have issues as well as far as substance use problems?
• 35:48
  Speaker: I learned um later in life that my my grandfather had addiction.
• 35:53
  Speaker: He drank, and um he passed with over, we don't remember, but it was over 35, 40 years um sober.
• 36:07
  Speaker: He went into a hospital, and I have his coin that went the day he quit uh drinking.
• 36:15
  Speaker: But I never remembered that.
• 36:17
  Speaker: Uh so I didn't know that, and I didn't hear that story until later, uh, you know, in recovery.
• 36:23
  Speaker: Um but m his parents were vital.
• 36:27
  Speaker: My grandparents on and my dad's parents, they lived in Knoxville.
• 36:32
  Speaker: They were the stability, they were the financial saving grace.
• 36:37
  Speaker: They we went there every summer after baseball, fished, ran around with BB guns and Bob Cat's, you know, little firecrackers, and um did the country life and the city life.
• 36:51
  Speaker: And so they were vital um in that.
• 36:55
  Speaker: And so they were the most structured and safe and well put together.
• 37:00
  Speaker: Stability stability, yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker: Yeah, that's good.
• 37:02
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: We so you're getting sober at this point in your life, this point of your story.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're about to start funding your own programs, but before that, you're sober and you're working in aviation.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Well, you you and I have talked about this before.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: You did uh bedside consults at Vandy, you did harm reduction on the streets too.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us about some of that that led into you working in recovery.
• 37:27
  Speaker: Yeah, no, so 2020, I I got clean in January 20 uh 10, worked in air air aviation, uh did interiors and then went to school and then got my airframe license and did structures and mechanics till 2019.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: And you were working at BA on planes, right?
• 37:50
  Speaker: Yeah, and um that was my career.
• 37:52
  Speaker: I finally got one, and it was I was attached to it.
• 37:56
  Speaker: It was an identity, it was something that I could hold on to and tell myself that I'm a normal member of society, that I and um in recovery throughout a 12-step process, meeting maker, you know, sponsor step work, I learned about this industry and uh naturally was helping people get into treatment.
• 38:26
  Speaker: And I knew so many people through recovery that I was just doing BD role before I even knew what it was.
• 38:33
  Speaker: Before he got paid for it.
• 38:34
  Speaker: Right, right.
• 38:35
  Speaker: And so pivotal in night in 2019, I went to a first event, an overdose awareness event, and I was questioning would I ever leave the airport?
• 38:47
  Speaker: And um, my mom suddenly passed.
• 38:51
  Speaker: And when that happened, I obviously went through a whole lot of things, and one of them was um just a real sense of you, you only have today, you only live once, like don't live in fear.
• 39:09
  Speaker: And so I quit just kind of abruptly.
• 39:12
  Speaker: Shout out to shout out to them.
• 39:14
  Speaker: I love them, but it was it was yeah, I just was like, nothing really matters.
• 39:20
  Speaker: Let me try to be happy, and you know, there's not a story written that I have to follow.
• 39:26
  Speaker: I'm allowed to be and do whatever is whatever I want.
• 39:32
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 39:32
  Speaker: And go ahead.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: I I do want to say hats off to you for staying sober while losing your mom.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I've had to do that with my dad and stay sober, and it's that's probably that was tougher than probably leaving aviation.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guessing.
• 39:48
  Speaker: Yes.
• 39:48
  Speaker: And unfortunately, the past six years of me going from uh uh took a pay cut, started as a tech, worked my way into admissions, COVID happened.
• 40:04
  Speaker: I luckily through relationships, helped open an outpatient program, was doing harm reduction at the same time, had my daughter full-time, learned the ins and outs of a program, um, being the fifth employee and just building a empty to you know what it looked like.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It's good that you climbed up the ropes because you learned actually every facet of what a clinic does, yeah, which would lead you to start your own.
• 40:37
  Speaker: Right.
• 40:37
  Speaker: Yeah, it's it's uh it wasn't planned.
• 40:42
  Speaker: I did at that time I didn't plan on doing my own.
• 40:46
  Speaker: I then left there and um said if I ever do this again, it'll be for myself.
• 40:55
  Speaker: Uh, due to the stipulations, the boundaries, the how I wanted how I thought we could help someone compared to the way that program was doing it.
• 41:07
  Speaker: And um went on to do companion work, worked at Vandy, doing a addiction console and and having the hospital, you know, view.
• 41:19
  Speaker: I I kind of saw from every angle the approach to what goes on in this industry.
• 41:26
  Speaker: And then the the day I left the airport, I wanted to do business development.
• 41:32
  Speaker: That was the the goal.
• 41:34
  Speaker: And um, through relationships at the hospital, I ended up meeting someone that hired me for my first BD role.
• 41:42
  Speaker: I did that for a year as I was discharge planning and helping people get from and to uh saw the lack of men's support in Nashville.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: And so that was we're gonna definitely get further into that.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: But you you start just breathing about 2022, somewhere around there.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: And like how did you physically get that started?
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: And then um, where did you see a gap in Donaldson for for recovery homes?
• 42:13
  Speaker: Yeah, so there's I I would say now there's a couple of reliable places, and at that time there was like one.
• 42:21
  Speaker: And then the the main thing that I focused on and that I learned in recovery because Savoxan coming into the the world kind of and getting popular, and when I was introduced to it, I was in an NA meeting and it was considered using, and there was a lot of heat and um discrediting to people that were utilizing that medication to help them stay alive and which is harm reduction, which is harm reduction, yeah.
• 43:00
  Speaker: And so um I had that view.
• 43:03
  Speaker: I I was like, hey, whatever you need to make this thing work in your personal life, and so just breathe was established to be in one of the first Subox and Matt friendly program or housing in 2022.
• 43:20
  Speaker: Um, and now we have kind of broadened that to a mental health side because yes, some will allow suboxing, but not the mental health side uh medications.
• 43:34
  Speaker: And so that was how just breathe kind of happened.
• 43:38
  Speaker: It was I was trying to get guys into sober living, but they were on Suboxan and nobody would take them.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that that yeah, that traditionally that has been a a big problem.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I think obviously there's a lot of evidence regarding the fact that it works, and uh, I think that's becoming less of an issue now, but traditionally it was a huge issue when Discharging from rehab facilities, trying to find housing, trying to find IOP PHP programs that that accepted people that were on that.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's like to some extent, you're exactly right.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: The AA, traditional AA, NA, it's like you've got like the 100% free.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: You're not, you're not, you're not, you're not really drug free unless you're also off this and you've got the people over here, they're like, you know, the evidence shows this, and like throwing grenades at each other, and and families are kind of left in the middle try to figure out what to do.
• 44:27
  unknown: Yes.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Abstinence only, we do have to think about, you know, we have we have three guys right here talking about how uh Suboxin's a positive thing.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: We can't treat somebody when they're dead.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: So exactly.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: We're trying to keep the patient alive.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: And especially with this fentanyl crisis, we need everything that we can throw at the wall that'll stick to help people.
• 44:51
  Speaker: Right.
• 44:51
  Speaker: Yeah, no, it's it's uh I remember being in a meeting and a guy on Subox and couldn't get a sponsor.
• 45:02
  Speaker: And a sponsor is free, a sponsor is a guy through the 12 steps.
• 45:06
  Speaker: And that's crazy.
• 45:07
  Speaker: So like those were the the different angles that I was going.
• 45:12
  Speaker: But I that guy's a good guy, or that girl's a good girl.
• 45:15
  Speaker: Like, they need help too.
• 45:17
  Speaker: And so then they start being defined off of their past.
• 45:21
  Speaker: I got a long history of that, and so that was more of a pushback and just trying to love and expect accept everybody regardless of your past.
• 45:35
  Speaker: And that's the true spiritual principles of recovery and all of that.
• 45:41
  Speaker: And so it and and thank God today it's different.
• 45:45
  Speaker: You know, it we they have now implemented a lot of information and a lot of new guidelines to like navigate someone that's on medication that can still be accepted uh in recovery.
• 46:00
  Speaker: And so things are changing.
• 46:02
  Speaker: And so it's a just a good thing.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: And especially, you know, I when I think about Suboxone and how the stigma's gotten better, I think about how mental health is part of the conversation more now than it ever was.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: And like speaking of mental health and men's mental health, after starting just breathe, you having success there and also filling a lot of gaps, a year later you start trioni, yeah, behavioral health with your brother.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: And um, I just tell us about that and how that started and also what you guys do.
• 46:36
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 46:37
  Speaker: Um, so just you know, head down grinding, helping people, um, just breathe opened.
• 46:45
  Speaker: Um, friends of mine in the industry, we connected and they ended up starting a Nashville location for a men's mat friendly Medicaid program.
• 46:57
  Speaker: And so I was the housing component because, like you said, it was hard to find.
• 47:03
  Speaker: Um, and that is one of the things that I did.
• 47:07
  Speaker: So basically, I started running an operation of a PHP IOP with housing for men that were on a in a program for Matt.
• 47:18
  Speaker: And um at that time, I noticed uh most men on Medicaid are diagnosed with a mental health disorder.
• 47:29
  Speaker: And in an addiction program, they were being treated for the addiction, not all the mental health symptoms.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: And so you have to treat the person 100%, not just 50% of what they have going on, right?
• 47:45
  Speaker: And and you know, they they did their their best, but their their whole program was built around addiction.
• 47:51
  Speaker: And so um that was the catapult of then leading into another gap of going, hey, there's men out here that are struggling with a whole lot of other things besides just addiction.
• 48:06
  Speaker: If you get them off of drugs, they now have to focus on a whole lot of things, and um and I'm um an avid believer that a lot of it started before the drugs.
• 48:20
  Speaker: So and that's where Trioni kind of that that whole program, the idea, and then as all of this is happening, my mom passed in 2020, my dad passed in 22, right when I opened Just Breathe, my grandfather passed in 23, right when I was fixing to start Trioni.
• 48:43
  Speaker: And I'm doing, I went to on-site, I'm doing the work to try to continue getting better throughout all the grief.
• 48:53
  Speaker: Um, and me dealing with my own mental health and me trying to find like real productive modalities and ways to make sure that I don't go backwards.
• 49:07
  Speaker: Um, recovery is a key part of my program and what I live by, but it's it's a lot of addiction.
• 49:15
  Speaker: And in January, I'm coming up on 16 years, and it's like today I don't have a drug problem.
• 49:21
  Speaker: You know, I have a knee problem, I have a self-centered problem, I have, you know, depression problem, I have a high anxiety and overwhelming, and then, you know, so like I need to be aware of those things and then focus on those things so I'm not creating chaos, is how I kind of run my logistics in my head.
• 49:47
  Speaker: And so I'm very that's when I lean into the uncomfortability, and I will call myself out and get real honest with someone and or everyone until you know, and say, hey, I'm not okay.
• 50:02
  Speaker: I need to, I need to chill, and then I need to find a solution.
• 50:07
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 50:07
  Speaker: Um good on you for that.
• 50:09
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 50:09
  Speaker: And so Trioni opened a men's mental health outpatient that is focused strictly on, you know, the therapeutic approach of, you know, depression, anxiety, all of the diagnoses that men face.
• 50:27
  Speaker: So most everybody has substance abuse history.
• 50:35
  Speaker: And so we're just not a substance abuse program.
• 50:38
  Speaker: So that is something that you would address first.
• 50:42
  Speaker: And then once you're done and get, you know, into recovery, then you come to Trioni to focus more on, you know, the the real underlying trauma.
• 50:56
  Speaker: And um, and these guys are just growing up right in front of us, and we just, you know, support them, keep them safe.
• 51:07
  Speaker: It's like all of the things me and my brother kind of like live through is like what guides of like what we want to implement in the program to make sure that they have a safe place, that they can come to us and talk to us, and we're really just kind of a brotherhood of let's all get better together.
• 51:29
  Speaker: Nobody's different than nobody, we're just all here for the same reason.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: And and your leadership style is um deeply human and strategically effective.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: How do you balance you know compassion versus accountability in dealing with men?
• 51:45
  Speaker: It's tough.
• 51:46
  Speaker: So, like um, my brother is the break and I'm the gas.
• 51:51
  Speaker: I give everybody second, third, fourth chances, and then I have a team of people that help me walk, we we huddle up and create a plan.
• 52:02
  Speaker: And and today I don't make a lot of decisions on my own.
• 52:05
  Speaker: I'm still using recovery processes of uh talking to people and the individual and really kind of mapping out are they are they playing us, are they, you know, or do they really want it?
• 52:20
  Speaker: And then um, but yes, like the compassion always comes first, which is uh um, I mean, it it can hurt me.
• 52:30
  Speaker: Uh at the same time, it's also something that I hold dear that I don't ever want to lose.
• 52:35
  Speaker: And so I have a lot of people that help me um remind me that hey, tough love works too.
• 52:43
  Speaker: And so it, you know, and it's case by case.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 52:47
  Speaker: It's case by case.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Different people need different things.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you need to need to set specific boundaries, or you'll, you know, as a provider, you know, you'll be taken advantage of.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: But you're right.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I uh I had one last question mapped out for you, but I'm gonna call an audible.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And since you're helping men in the mental health space, I I do want to focus more on that over just breathe.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: But in closing, is that let's say you have a parent with a son of any age, you know, 19 years old or 36, what would you say to that parent that's struggling to get that person mental health help?
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: And also what would you say to that patient as well to try to make them see that there is an other way of living?
• 53:35
  Speaker: Right.
• 53:35
  Speaker: So the parents, to all the parents, um you're doing a great job, but there is help available.
• 53:44
  Speaker: Um, most of who we treat are failure to launch, still at their parents' house.
• 53:52
  Speaker: Parents won't let go.
• 53:54
  Speaker: Uh parents Enabling without no realizing without noticing.
• 53:58
  Speaker: And and if they call and ask for help, it then says that they're a bad parent.
• 54:04
  Speaker: And that's not true.
• 54:05
  Speaker: And so I would suggest to parents and clients or potential, is like the real key is asking for help.
• 54:17
  Speaker: If you ask for help, I phone call hung up with in the elevator coming here.
• 54:22
  Speaker: It's like you block the blessing if you don't.
• 54:25
  Speaker: Somebody is waiting to help you.
• 54:27
  Speaker: We have jobs solely, it just that is what we love to do.
• 54:34
  Speaker: And and a lot of people don't know that.
• 54:36
  Speaker: And then a lot of people have a hard time asking for help.
• 54:39
  Speaker: And so I would say um reach out, call someone and and get uncomfortable and and just ask questions.
• 54:51
  Speaker: What you know, and that doesn't mean that you're a bad person, a bad parent.
• 54:55
  Speaker: If you're dealing with mental health, doesn't mean you're a bad person or you didn't do it right.
• 55:01
  unknown: Or you're a bad guy.
• 55:03
  Speaker: Yeah, it it none of that internal dialogue is true.
• 55:08
  Speaker: And you my experience is I had to get some experience of seeing it happen different.
• 55:14
  Speaker: And it's like, that's what I encourage people to do is like step out, talk to someone that's you know in the realm of um possibilities of helping people.
• 55:27
  Speaker: Um, because I remember from age 12 to 26, I didn't see anybody that I would ever even ask to like go down a different path.
• 55:38
  Speaker: I was strategically boxed into the most comfortable place that did the same thing.
• 55:46
  Speaker: And nobody, I I would be crazy if I mentioned it in the circle that I was in.
• 55:52
  Speaker: I had to get outside of that circle and and ask somebody else.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that because uh it's almost like peer pressure can kill you because you don't want to get better to fit in some sort of box or circle with a bunch of men.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: And I think in some cases too, it better serves the group of friends if you're still sick.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: So they don't have to take a hard look at themselves.
• 56:20
  Speaker: Exactly.
• 56:20
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 56:21
  Speaker: So my older brother got, you know, in recovery a year after I did.
• 56:25
  Speaker: I didn't wait on him.
• 56:26
  Speaker: You know, like my my best friend just celebrated 14 years, his brother celebrating quite like it's a it's a chain reaction of goodness is is bad.
• 56:41
  Speaker: The love and light that is naturally passed is like you don't really have to um you don't have to just say anything.
• 56:49
  Speaker: The people see you different.
• 56:51
  Speaker: And and and so I would encourage people that have any questions to call and ask.
• 56:58
  Speaker: If you're struggling with something, I would definitely say it out loud to people, and it might be someone you don't know, but like they will help you as if they were your brother, father, mother.
• 57:13
  Speaker: And when you receive that, maybe for the first time, your life can change.
• 57:19
  Speaker: Because then you get introduced to that new circle of people.
• 57:24
  Speaker: Because my only people I talk to in all areas of my life are people trying to be better people every day.
• 57:34
  Speaker: The day I saw my dad cry was the.
• 57:35
  Speaker: Now you're in the right circle.
• 57:36
  Speaker: I really and so now it's easier.
• 57:38
  Speaker: Now we're all doing it together, you're not alone.
• 57:41
  Speaker: It was no longer about my behavior, it was concerned takeaway.
• 57:45
  Speaker: It's like I don't want to be alone.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 57:48
  Speaker: Yeah, it goes for all of us, and everybody can identify with that feeling, which is not the way you have to live.
• 57:56
  Speaker: You don't have to bear that weight alone.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: No, no, so no, thank you for sharing all that.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: And I think you know, my biggest takeaway at the very end here is that asking for help is step one, but I think it also makes it real that you're throwing it out there.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Um the age old that's the age-old question, like what can we do to help?
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: But thank you for helping us solve some of that, and also thank you for all your advice, all your recovery and sharing your story today.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no worries, man.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Is there anything that you want to leave with our listeners?
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Like anything that you're working on, just breathe, trioni, anything that you're personally working on?
• 58:37
  Speaker: Yeah, no, uh so just breathe recovery community is a men's um residential housing that is for mental health and substance.
• 58:48
  Speaker: There's four houses, they're kind of spread out, and that is providing housing for people that are in that, you know, that crosshairs of not being able to get up fully out on their own, and they are in that circle uh of people doing the same thing.
• 59:05
  Speaker: And then Trioney Behavioral Health is if you needed a little more support, uh, guidance, and a roadmap to then focusing on how you navigate life with these situations that um not all of them are permanent.
• 59:25
  Speaker: And so uh with the right tools, you can overcome and then maintain a good, healthy life.
• 59:33
  Speaker: And so um we're on all platforms and the website.
• 59:38
  Speaker: So I just thank y'all for having me and what y'all are doing to the community as well.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: No, I appreciate it.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: We appreciate it.
• 59:47
  Speaker: Of course, thank y'all.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: Congratulations on everything, seriously.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Like, thank you for selling your uh aviation tools.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah so then it can transfer into helping people that are on e on MAT with sober living, filling so many gaps and helping men in mental health.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I just I can't thank you enough.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: And thank you.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Jay.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Much love to you and much love to everybody out there.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you.