Latest / 85 Percent: A Wanderful Podcast / S3 E3: The Business of Being Seen with Danny Guerrero of The Culturist Group
Transcript
- Beth Santos: Hi everyone, Beth Santos here, founder and CEO of Wanderful and host of the 85 Percent podcast, here to bring you another episode. I cannot wait to get started. I hope you've been enjoying the season. It's been such a magical season to be able to really sit down and talk with our Bessie Award winners, some of the most inspiring people in this industry who have earned so many great accolades. And this episode. Is certainly one of them. In fact, you'll hear in the episode, this is our very first recipient of our allyship award. And our allyship award is something really important because I don't think we talk about allyship enough. We don't talk about speaking out for others, we don't talk about our role in making sure that our industry is equitable for everyone, even if that direct benefit doesn't happen just for us. So our allyship award winner. Is Danny Guerrero. He's the founder of The Culturist Group, a really incredible PR marketing agency based out of California. And we're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about the award. We're gonna talk about allyship in general, what this travel industry needs, but also something that is so central to what Danny cares about, which is being seen. It's the business of being seen, it's the politics of being seen, it's how supporting. people through their many intersections and making sure that they're being accurately spoken to is not just a really great thing to do, but also a really important business case. You know, something that is going to help move this travel industry forward. And that's what it's all about. So I really hope you enjoy this episode. I can't wait for you to listen in. Here it is. Danny Guerrero is the founder and CEO of the Culturist Group, a multicultural and inclusive marketing agency working with brands like a whole bunch, but Brand USA, visit California are some. Before starting his own company, he spent five years as VP of Strategy at MMGY Global, one of the biggest names in travel marketing. He spent over 20 years in the industry. And this year he won our Allyship Award at the Bessies, which Danny, you are Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: the first dude to ever be on the 85 Percent podcast. Or, well, I guess we've had some businesses that have been Bessie Award winners. But like, how does it Danny Guerrero: Yeah, that's amazing. Beth Santos: feel to be you are like a legacy holder in the Wanderful community now? Danny Guerrero: It's a huge honor, honestly. It feels so good. Thank you. Thank you for thank you for the nomination. Thank you for the the selection. I wasn't able to be with you, as you know, in Chattanooga this year. I was in Mexico on a family event. And so I remember getting ready for this quinceanera that I was going to and I remember getting the message, and it was just felt so amazing and it felt it felt like being in a room with family even though I wasn't technically there because people that I really respect, including yourself, you know, are at the helm of this and I felt really good. I felt really, you know, again, like I'm not I I've never done this work to to seek accolades or awards or I don't think any of us do. But it's always nice to be in a room full of people who are doing really great things, especially women. So so thank you for that. Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. No, we were we're so excited for you. And I think, you know, as I kind of alluded to earlier, the Allyship Award is a new award. We just started doing it. And I think, Danny Guerrero: Love it. Beth Santos: you know, as the Bessies have evolved, we started them in 2019, So have the ways that we wanted to recognize people who are really making an impact. And and I think allyship is something that we thought, you know, not only is it great to recognize the people who are doing it, but perhaps even by the mere fact of having an award like that, it sort of signals Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: to others like you too can be an ally. You know, it's like a modeling. So so, but I Danny Guerrero: Exactly. Exactly. Beth Santos: think that that's that's cool because I don't know if many people, you know, identify like They think, I'm an ally. You know, they don't like they're not thinking through it like that, Danny Guerrero: I think that I think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense because it helps expand and bring people in recast the individual roles we all have to create truly inclusive travel experiences and a place where everybody feels safe, first and foremost, right? And seen. and I think that's what that's what I'm all about. I think that's that's what this business is all about. And that's what I think, you know, getting to the business unlocks the economic potential of our communities when we feel safe and we feel seen. I mean, full stop, you know. so I think there's a lot of people in a lot of different roles who can impact that and affect that. And so I think what you're doing is wonderful, pun intended. Beth Santos: allyship takes so many different forms. it doesn't mean that that you're necessarily like, you know, standing at the forefront of like women's rights conversations, you know, on social media. Yeah, like it doesn't it looks in so many different ways. And for you, you've really dedicated so much of your career. To helping people of a whole bunch of different intersections feel spoken to directly, which Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: is something that, you know, historically hasn't been the case. for so many like women of color, Latina women, queer women, you know, for them to be like, wow, okay, now there's actually somebody who is leading the decision makers in the travel industry to think a little bit more thoughtfully about what my unique identity deserves and needs. I think Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: that that is a lot. That means a lot. And yeah, so great. So congrats to you. You're awesome. Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: take us take us a little bit on this journey because you started the Culturist group in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two. It's Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: like what what got you to this point? What made you think like, you know what? I'm just gonna start my own agency. Danny Guerrero: Yeah, that that wasn't originally the goal. my goal was to always influence the way that travel marketers and the tourism industry. saw underrepresented audiences. And you know, this goes back to 2018 actually. When I first I think for me personally, I felt really good about where I where I was in my career at that time. I had been promoted to vice president and general manager of the LA practice for MMGY, which is one of the biggest travel tourism shops. And a big part of what we did and a big part of my role was actually working on thought leadership. And so I was like, well, I have a thought. And Beth Santos: What? Danny Guerrero: I've had a thought for a long time. And my thought is, why aren't people like myself, better reflected in the campaigns that we're building and the research that we're selling? And I always talk about this one piece of research called the Portrait of the American Traveler. And I was like, Who is the American Traveler? Like just you know, full stop. Like, who is the American traveler outside of just generic demographics? family size, solo travel or the things that we have always from a travel tourism industry the premise we work on is these data points. And I was like, well what about these individual groups? And I will give a shout out shout out early as I always do to Marty Lewis, Martinique Lewis of the Black Travel Alliance, because you know, she was doing the work as well as like Evita and others, way before I even popped up, intentionally. And and I saw this diversity in travel scorecard. And I was like, exactly. Like everything that I Beth Santos: Yes, mm-hmm. Danny Guerrero: saw in that scorecard was how I felt personally and professionally. So I remember drafting this really elaborate long email to the leadership at the agency and basically saying, look, I think we're missing an opportunity here. And this is before George Floyd, before Black Lives Matter, before the Beth Santos: Mm. Yeah. Right. Right. Danny Guerrero: reasoning that we all had in 2020. And I said, I think we need to lean into this and create research that better reflects the diversity of America and the diversity of the travel market that we have here. And so that's how it started for me was like just me as a person of color, a gay man in this agency, one of the only ones of that looks like me, saying, I want to do something with the career now I've been in you know at that point almost 20 years. I want to do something that really's gonna move a needle. And is really gonna think have people think differently. and then 2020 came and then everything changed. And then, you know, I will say people said we should have done this when you brought it up. Because now it feels like we're just catching up, and that for me, it was one of those things where it's just like, you know what, the more the most important thing is that we're here now. And I will say that I will give kudos to to Clayton and the MMGY leadership for not only devising the first global black traveler study, but committing all the proceeds back to the Black Travel Alliance and National Coalition of Black Meeting Professionals and really building a program that I at that point had no authority or influence to build. They they built that for me when they said, Okay, you're gonna deliver the webinar, And I was like, All right, I can do this. I c I'm you know, I think I'm good at speaking. And I delivered that webinar, and I'll tell you that the data points that were in that webinar were you know, a lot of people were taken aback. And it was funny 'cause I wasn't, you know. But a lot of the data points that talked about Not feeling safe, not feeling represented, not feeling welcomed, was were really hard for people to take, you know? for the first time I felt like this is a conversation we're having on a major scale with major global sponsors like Hilton Disney and others, who came to the table and said, We want to fund this research, it's important. And that that that day I found my voice. I found like okay, like okay, I have this passion within me that I wants to do more of it. And now I guess I earned not given permission, but I earned the the ability to be in front of the camera, telling travel marketers and industry leaders what the problem is, what we're seeing, and perhaps how to fix it. And that how to fix it part was always a part that for me was the most important. Like we learned something. see it, how do we change it? People are coming to me asking me to be on boards, asking me to speak, and they're saying, well, we're not asking the agency, we're asking you. And that was like really, really empowering, you know, to say, maybe I've I've found my voice and maybe people like appreciate what I'm saying and maybe we can affect change if I just focus on that. And that's when I decided that I had to kind of, you know, I can't I kind of came up with like, okay, what would that look like? And because I'm a marketer. And because I had worked in agencies, the agency model was really the the thing that I thought was the best next step to create. And that's how you know that's how that's how it started. That's how it yeah, it all began. Beth Santos: I want to take everyone a step back here because you mentioned this diversity in travel scorecard that Marty Lewis created. So Marty, Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: who was was, still is president of Black Travel Alliance and has her own, has built some really incredible things, has been on an television show called Black Travel Across America. was actually on our program council for WITS this year and and created this score. So the scorecard is basically like ranking elements of the travel industry across how diverse they are in different things. So diversity in ads and promotions, diversity on social media, diversity in programs and events. And it's like D plus. D minus, F, F. You know, like the best, the best score Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: here is C minus overall sensitivity to diversity of Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: travel. I think the thing that was very powerful about this is that, and I think some people are like, this is so s over oversimplifying, but but I think sometimes in simplifying this and just kind of showing like the the cross section, it it Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: shocked a lot of people. And and I think what what I'm hearing from you is this really fascinating journey of someone who has basically lived this scorecard your whole life and perhaps has Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yes. Beth Santos: been gaslighted a bit about it, you know, throughout your career. And then at one point, like there's like this breakthrough. And Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: suddenly you're being asked to speak on this topic. You're being, I mean what an interesting turn of events for a really dark time in our country and in our world Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: to also be this like very moving turning point for people like yourself, where maybe they're finally being listened to more than than they were, at least on this topic. I don't know like how how that felt for you kind of going through that. Danny Guerrero: to your point, it had been a whole a career long thing. I had been serving, you know, pretty high level roles in in very various organizations and travel brands and strategy making and I always had I feel like I had to suppress that part of me. I feel like that I always felt like that didn't matter or if I brought it up there was no way for the people in the room to handle that. And I would always use the analogy of like feeling like you're being patted on the head. Like when you say something, like, yeah, Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Danny Guerrero: well that's you know, I'm I'm so you know, so so good. Yeah, so good, Beth Santos: Good Danny. Yeah. Glad you're here to voice that. Danny Guerrero: you know. And like then then nothing gets done because everybody who's who's in charge of pulling the strings and making the work is not bought into that, you know? So it felt good. But I was always very weary that it was a performative, this is the thing we should what else are we gonna do right now? Like what else, you know? I knew that by going on my own it was a risk financially for me. Look, I'm a first generation kid who came out of poverty. put himself through school and then I got my MBA at UCLA adding more debt to my situation. But that stuff has never like held me back. But I'm like, I need to do this for myself. And it felt really good. Beth Santos: so you launched the culturist group. tell us more about what this is Danny Guerrero: Yeah. So Culturist group really is meant to be a group of services, thoughts, ideas, people who were fed up with corporate America or fed up with agencies who said this is our formulaic approach, we don't do that. for me, one, the research piece became evident very evident early on that some of these research shops don't have the right sample size. Don't have Beth Santos: Mm, mm. Danny Guerrero: Adequate enough people in their rosters to give you actionable insights or data about these groups. We had a very hard time and it was a very costly exercise to reshape the way sample size and the way research actually is conducted with people of color. That's one. And as a marketer, as a researcher, or as a brand strategist, if you can't rely on the research because it's not adequate enough or relevant enough. And you have nothing. And so all the programs you're building off of that is no good. So number one was like, how do we improve Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Danny Guerrero: research on multicultural and diverse audiences to make sure that our clients are going to get the real thing, the real deal, right? The real insights and the real motivators and answering the real questions as to why or why not. Why aren't they coming? Why aren't why don't they see us favorably? Why do we why do they think we're unsafe? Whatever it is. So research was always gonna be the backbone of this. Strategy consulting was a second piece, right? Literally trying to help destinations and brands articulate their roadmap. Where are you now? And everybody, literally everybody in 2022, 23, 24, was like inclusive and welcoming is part of our brand architecture. I'm like, okay, tell me about that. Like, okay. Or our our brand research studies show that we are a very welcoming destination. I'm like, welcoming to who? And I would not Beth Santos: Yeah. Danny Guerrero: as an antagonistic play, I'm like, where do you get that? So if you are a destination, let's say here in Southern California, and your sample size was primarily, you know, eighty five percent, white leisure travelers, and they're telling you it's safe and welcoming, well what are you missing? And it may very well be if you increase the sample size on other groups that it was the case. But you won't really know 'til you'll do it. we helped Los Cabos Tourism, you know, pull off a luxury black travel advisor event in Los Angeles and help kind of do a press trip down there because they were losing market share to Cancun during the pandemic. So most leisure black travelers were going to Cancun and Cabo was getting left behind, for example, right? For this destination in Southern California, we did a whole roadmap that talked about the opportunity audiences. And that's the first time that I used that word, opportunity growth audiences. Beth Santos: Hm. Danny Guerrero: And since then, so what we've built is a practice that is strategic, research-based, storytelling, key part of that called Story Studio, and then MOSAEX which is our latest offering, which says, what is the gap, what is a need, what is the issue, how do we use research to articulate that? How do we tell your story in a way that your local community and people who own those experiences will own? How do we then deploy that in Culturally relevant, responsive, and resonant media environments where your brand or your destination will have authenticity and will have that trust that you're missing when you're doing mass market campaigns or social campaigns that don't that just focus on demographics. What we call it is growth audience marketing. Growth audiences means that you have the opportunity to grow your visitation or community engagement based on the values, based on cultural truths that are, you know, relevant to your destination or your place. And that's what we're what we're doing with Culturist Group Beth Santos: what's always been very interesting for me when we talk about marketing is that marketing is almost always reactive. It's let's collect the data of who is, you know, buying whatever and Cater more towards them. But in my mind, I've always thought, are you just reacting to the thing that is already happening? It's like the cobbler who it's like, I'm gonna go to a place where they don't have shoes and I'm gonna sell some shoes because they need them. Danny Guerrero: Right. Beth Santos: if you're just selling to the people who already have shoes, you're kind of missing the point. And and I think that That is so, you know, it's it's such like a low risk way to market, just to kind of be like, okay, let's sort of like look at what we have already and sort of not consider anything else. But I think what's really cool about what you're doing is you're questioning that historical data and creating your own data and kind Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: of looking at, you know, this this concept of growth audience marketing. It's like, but who is the audience that you are not reaching that maybe you should be? Danny Guerrero: Right. Absolutely. Beth Santos: or should be more or should be better. but like perhaps don't have or haven't sufficiently analyzed the data that you do have to sort of discover that. lot of hardship. Danny Guerrero: you're absolutely right. And and that's why I haven't made the job easy for myself. And I knew this was gonna be easy, because convincing a marketer, again, repeat visitation, right how much does it cost you to get a new visitor versus a repeat visitor, I understand that. But when you look at Beth Santos: Hmm. Yeah. Danny Guerrero: long-term growth, just demographic patterns and trends in this country. and how diversification of your audience really needs to happen. I'm not saying let's build a campaign in six months and launch it. I'm saying what is your foundational research program looks like to allow you to actually grow? So I had these conversations at Destination Beth Santos: Yeah. Danny Guerrero: International recently with a lot of you know big state tourism organizations who are doing this work and are often challenged with five, 10, 15, 20 years, you know, marketing plans, right? We're doing a a great partnership with Hyunden Partners and visit greater Palm Springs. For the first time in many, I've seen them bring us on to actually speak to Indigenous, black, LGBTQ, Latino, Filipino, Jewish communities in the greater Coachella Valley about what the future of tourism looks like for them. Even for tribes Beth Santos: Wow. Danny Guerrero: that have no tourism assets, there's the big tribes that have gaming and casinos, wellness and museums, Beth Santos: Yeah, sure. Danny Guerrero: others that don't have that. So the question is, how do you see yourself in tourism? What does that look like for you long term? so our conversations are marketing, but they they are structurally predicated on workforce empowerment, youth, economic empowerment. I've represented destinations from Nicaragua to Papua New Guinea, where literally you go there and you say people rely on these visitors for their local economies, you know? And that's always stuck with me. Just the way that my hometown of San Diego was reliant on tourism, you know. So I there's a there's there's Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Danny Guerrero: something there. And so, you know, for us it's really about Catering to the individual clients' goals, their situation, their community needs, building that sustainably from the ground up. And then once we have that, putting it out to others who have similar values, you know, cultural alignment, right? Beth Santos: Yes. But I think at the end of the day, like the strongest tourism economy is gonna be the one that is the most regenerative in the sense of Danny Guerrero: Yes. Beth Santos: not even, you know, I would love to say environmentally, but not even environmentally, just economically. Like if you are fueling a community where they are feeling like they are bought in on this and the residents are like, This is my livelihood and this is helping my community and This is, you know, paying for my kids' school and that kind of thing and they're bought in, that tourism ecosystem is gonna last a long time and be very strong. Danny Guerrero: Helping make helping locals see the connection between what they're doing and aligning them with that kind of traveler who's gonna appreciate those things is really, really, really important. And why we have that for our model that we work on: representation, relevance, resonance, reach. If you can articulate your campaign along those lines, then you're building a framework to really help you achieve those things. You know, that's that's kind of the way we think about it. Beth Santos: Well, because you know what the worst thing to do in a tourism experience is is to market a place as such and then people show up there and it's not that, and then and then it just feels fake. travel marketing and the operations on the ground have got to work together more you can't promote. something that doesn't exist. And you can't build something without knowing what people are looking for. And, you know, infrastructure and and systems and the facilities and services that a city has, those have to be working hand in hand with the marketing and the PR and the messaging. Otherwise People will not respond well to that. Danny Guerrero: Yeah, and I think I think a lot of the clients that we work with have these really great roles now. And a lot of DMOs have, you know, ever since sustainability, social impact, all these things have resiliency have come into the forefront. You know, I get to work with people, both marketing and community engagement, sustainability, community, you know, empowerment folks who are out there assessing, assisting. I mean, Visit Greater Palm Springs, just to shout them out again, they do amazing work with youth. I mean, they have brought literally you know, college students from the local colleges in the Coachella Valley to wherever, Chicago, Portland. And help them understand that tourism is not just about hospitality frontline workers, they are going to have to empower people in that vast destination. to articulate what tourism means to them. And that's you know, creating small businesses, you know, creating leaders who who who represent the diversity of the Coachella Valley within hotels and resorts and the experiences that they offer them, restaurants, and all that. So and I think that that there's these people now in DMOs who their job is to make sure that be that the that that the communities are being included, that they understand what tourism is and does for them, and they understand what opportunities are available to them. and so that's and that's the Ideal. we call them frameworks, comms frameworks. How do we communicate your values, your cultural truths in a way that is going to resonate locally as well as the end user, that potential leisure traveler who's looking for places like this? Beth Santos: destination marketing turning into destination management, turning into like, let's make sure that we're Danny Guerrero: Yeah. rich, yeah. Beth Santos: managing this flow better and that we're you know, sustaining and not necessarily just more, Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: more, more. so okay, so so here's a question for you. I mean, we've we're talking about some like dirty words here, intersectionality. DEI, God forbid we like say that word out loud these days. I mean, Danny Guerrero: Yeah, right. Yeah. Beth Santos: you you've built your business on this this concept of true inclusion. Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: But we're also kind of in a time where DEI budgets are being cut. It is like complete 180 from Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Yes. Beth Santos: 2020 and 2021. I mean, what what's happening now? Danny Guerrero: I have to solve for the one of the biggest pain points in multicultural marketing, which is media. Well, why? Because For very good reasons, regulation has prohibited people from targeting black LGBTQ consumers because of anti discrimination laws. Very, very well intentioned policy that has also created the inability for people to know who you are more and more. And this is a double edged short in marketing, right? As you know, in media, we need to know who you are for our clients to believe that their dollars are being spent efficiently and effectively. What I found to answer your question about what now is this is not going away. Like growth audience growth? economic power amongst Latino, Black, LGBTQ, Asian Americans, South Asian communities is growing exponentially and it's growing fast. I think for tourism, the other part is while we can't call it DEI or whatever, there's still many clients who are out there doing the work around equity and representation. And so what has happened now is it's giving us A lot more ability to speak strategically about our work than what I was doing before. We have a model now. It's taken me nearly five years to build the case studies, build the model, build the framework I talked about to say we have an approach. And this is how we put you through our approach. And I'm very happy with where we are. I actually was in San Diego last week for the NGLCC convention, which is a national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce. We got certified this year, both LGBTBE business and MBE business, which again in this Yeah. Beth Santos: Wait, wait, hold on, hold on, Danny. Hold on. Say say that again. We got certified this year. Danny Guerrero: We got certified this year as LGBTV. Yes. I love it. Beth Santos: Well, I mean the audience just they just yeah. Congratulations. Danny Guerrero: I love the effect. Thank you for that. But LGBTVE and MBE, which again, people are like, and this in this economy, you know, yes, in this economy, I'm thinking like, Beth Santos: Yeah. Danny Guerrero: okay, how do we apply our model to consumer brands who are adjacent to hospitality and travel? How do we grow, diversify? That's where we're at. So what's next for us is continuing to perfect our model, our process, our framework, create really compelling end-to-end solutions that are actually, you know, measurable with MOSAEX and work with people who want to work with us. I think there's enough evidence out there, hopefully, that representation matters, even if we don't say it as much anymore. I wanna believe that we've evolved enough that the people who are going to do the work are gonna look for resources and and look for strategic solutions to this work. That doesn't mean I'm gonna let the pedal off the gas or whatever it is. I think we still need to be thoughtful about our thought leadership, thoughtful about the kind of data we put out, the kind of social media content we put out, and to try to keep educating folks. But I I'm also not gonna worry about, you know, if every Joe Schmoe doesn't understand or doesn't wanna do this work. You know, it's it's not personal Beth Santos: I wanna talk with you for like three more hours, but alas, we all have jobs to do. Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: but tell me in the last couple of minutes that we have, what is the future that you wanna see for travel and tourism? And what is it going to take for us to get there? Danny Guerrero: Yeah, I wanna see a future in travel and tourism where one it would be nice to have a little bit of runway to stop reacting to world events and and situations. I mean that's out of our control, but I feel like in an unfair way, everybody in travel and tourism has been dealing with some sort of or reacting to something for a few years now. Whether it's immigration policy, visa policy, pandemics. fuel cost, whatever it is, and that's maybe the the harsh reality. Because I think those kinds of macroeconomic challenges do really make it hard to focus on the thing that's gonna help our communities. to focus on the things that really is going to bring the true meaning of what it means to travel somewhere, what it means to reflect those identities, what it means to be inclusive and in and and welcoming. And I think that sometimes, you know, with the pressures we have with with funding and and all the rest, I understand how sometimes these things get pushed back in a priority standpoint. but just being more thoughtful again and yeah, being a little bit of a risk taker. I mean, we've we've already been put in so many risky situations, whether it's through our own or most likely macroeconomic situations, that I feel like the comment you made earlier about the kind of fish where the fish are mentality. The problem Beth Santos: Mm. Yeah. Danny Guerrero: is like I don't believe we're all informed enough to know where the fish are anymore, you know? That we think Beth Santos: Yeah. Danny Guerrero: we know, but I think like just opening up a little bit of your perspective to understand how consumers are changing, right? Influence is changing, media has changed. Like, Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Danny Guerrero: how do we all keep up? And so I want to be part of that kind of innovative, kind of pushing the boundaries, right? for the good of your economies, right, the good of your people. and you're good the good of your culture too. So I guess that's my wish. Beth Santos: I think that's beautiful. Well, Danny, it has been Danny Guerrero: Yeah. Beth Santos: such a pleasure talking with you. thank you for Danny Guerrero: Right. Beth Santos: all you're doing. I mean, I know it's it's hard work and I think you're making such a big impact and our community definitely sees it. And I think you're just you're such a model for so many of us. So thank you for being here today. Danny Guerrero: Thanks so much, Beth Beth Santos: All right, everyone, that wraps up our next episode of the 85 Percent podcast. I hope you really enjoyed that one. It was a deeper conversation about the business of the travel and tourism industry, right? Who gets represented, who gets depicted, but also who gets spoken to, who is the audience, who is the decision maker, who is the one who is on the receiving end of travel media. And thinking about that is so important too. So I hope you check out Danny's work. The Culturist Group is amazing. and I hope you stick around for another episode. If you are not subscribed yet, make sure that you can do that. You can subscribe on YouTube now because we are available over video, or you can find us wherever you get your podcast. We're on Apple Podcasts, we're on Spotify. Go ahead and make sure that you're in there. And don't forget to visit 85percentpodcast.com. That's 85 Percent all spelled out. Podcast.com. You can subscribe for email updates. You can get on my email list. You can also check out the links to my various sub stacks. And we can get you all into the ecosystem. That's what this is all about. So come on in. Stay tuned. We have more episodes coming. Can't wait for you to hear them. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Bye for now.