Latest / National Immigration Law Center Freedom to Thrive Podcast / Ep. #110: Know Your Rights | Kica Matos

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Ep. #110: Know Your Rights | Kica Matos · National Immigration Law Center Freedom to Thrive Podcast

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There is a lot of despair and anxiety circulating post-presidential election, and it's not unfounded.
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We are standing on the precipice of what not only promises to be,
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but what we've been promised will be a very dark time in our nation's history.
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Now more than ever, we're going to need each other to stand in solidarity with
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one another, to be allies to other communities, to bear witness,
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and to resist harm that may be planned against our neighbors,
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friends, and fellow humans.
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As the daughter and sister of immigrants from Mexico, one of the things that
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brings me comfort in this moment is knowing that there are organizations that
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have been preparing for this outcome.
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Groups that are ready to organize and resist any harms that may be coming our way.
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And that is how we will get through, by standing together, by showing up for
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one another, by holding on to our shared humanity, and by fighting for and with each other.
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For more than 40 years, the National Immigration Law Center,
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or NILC for short, has been one of the leading organizations defending and advancing
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the rights of immigrants. I want to talk about what NILC is doing to prepare
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for the months and years ahead.
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So we're having a special post-election conversation with Kika Matos, president of NILC.
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This is the NILC Freedom to Thrive podcast, powering pro-immigrant narratives one story at a time.
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I'm Victoria Ballesteros, executive vice president of Narrative at the National
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Immigration Law Center. Kika, hello.
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Thank you for making time to have this conversation with me today.
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I know that you, as the president of the National Immigration Law Center,
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must have your hands absolutely full.
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Your plate must be overflowing in this time. And I really wanted to have this
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conversation with you because of the moment in which we find ourselves.
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In everything that I know that I'm hearing that you must also be hearing from
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people who are immigrants, who are family members of immigrants or who care
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about immigrants and who care about justice in this country.
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And I wanted to hear your words of wisdom on what's analysis of what's happening
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and what we can look forward to in the months and years to come.
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And how would you start, Kika, again, just so immediately post-election with
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immigration having been one of the defining, if not the defining issue of this
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presidential election?
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What are your thoughts and reflections so immediately after the outcome?
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Thank you for inviting me, Victoria, and thank you for the questions.
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I will say, first and foremost, that the last 48 hours have been really intense.
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A lot of texts, a lot of phone calls, a lot of questions,
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a lot of shock, particularly for people who are immigrants or are in undocumented
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or in mixed status families wondering what to do.
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The the issue around the election and
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i really want to make the distinction because some of
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what we've been hearing also is recriminations and a
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lot of finger pointing and a lot of right uh blame and
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the analysis is that it's it was it it was immigration my answer is it was the
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economy at the end of the day although immigration was the tool that trump used
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to demonize immigrants and to blame somebody and to make these threats.
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But what we heard overwhelmingly from people is that their biggest concern was the economy.
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And here's something hopeful and something that we should all hang on to.
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And this was actually televised in Fox News and a number of other outlets,
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which is that the election e-poll asked the question,
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one of the questions was where the people supported a pathway to citizenship
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for immigrants who are undocumented.
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And the majority of Americans said yes.
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They supported a path to legalization over deportations, and that is something
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that we should hold on to.
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Now, having said that, we are going to be facing some really tough times for
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the immigrant community.
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We've been there before, right? We know what Trump plans to do.
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And because of that, for the last 10 months, NILC is one of the organizations
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that's been doing scenario planning.
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We've looked at what they're threatening to do, and we have put together a plan.
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So we are ready, and we intend to do everything we can to fight with and for
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immigrant communities.
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We will not surrender to the threats of this administration.
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We have a constitution that needs to be respected.
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We have tools at our disposal to fight with and for justice and for vulnerable communities.
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So, Kika, you talked about voters being in support of a pathway to citizenship.
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Despite voting in the way that they might have done. What is a pathway to citizenship?
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What does that mean? What does it look like? And why don't we have it now?
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So pathway to citizenship, when you hear that, it's really a short-term way
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for describing people who are in this country without papers.
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We sometimes refer to them as undocumented immigrants.
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And undocumented immigrants are usually the result of people whose visas expire,
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for example, and they're unable to get their visas renewed.
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And so they choose to stay in this country or people who have crossed the border
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and sought asylum and been denied asylum, and they have chosen to stay in the country.
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Those are some examples of how people fall out of status and become undocumented.
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Our immigration system is just broken. And the last time that Congress went
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about the business of trying to reform our immigration system and modernize
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it was in 1986 under Ronald Reagan.
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Think about that. And as a result of that, we have not been able to pass laws
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to offer these undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship.
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And so right now, because of that, we have an estimated 11 million people who
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on average have lived in the country for about 15 years, one five,
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who are unable to change their status.
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It's not because they're too lazy to, it's not because they don't want to,
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it is not any of the stereotypical responses that we hear.
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It is because there is no pathway for them absent changes in the law.
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Yeah. What would you say then to someone who's feeling despair about where we're
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headed under this administration?
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Yeah, here's what I'm acknowledging. We're all going through,
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those of us who care deeply about justice, those of us who care deeply about
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our democracy, those of us who care deeply about vulnerable populations in this
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country, we're all shocked at the outcome of the election.
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And, you know, I would capture it as this.
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Some of us are saying, this is not my America.
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This is not the America that I have had faith in and that I believe in.
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And that translates into the stages of grief in whatever order,
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right? You process grief.
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We are right now in the moment where people are angry.
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They're depressed. They feel great amounts of despair and rage.
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And it's okay to feel those things.
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But at some point in time, we go through that and we pick ourselves up and we
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commit ourselves to waging the battle of our lifetimes.
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And this battle is not just to protect vulnerable populations.
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It is also a battle to save and protect our democracy.
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So we should draw inspiration from all over the country and even in this country
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in terrible moments to say there are moments in history where it feels like, you know,
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everything's going to hell in a handbasket, right?
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And we have to draw the inspiration from the freedom fighters,
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those who said we will not accept these conditions and we're going to do everything
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we can to fight for justice and to fight for democracy.
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So what I would say to people is whatever source of inspiration you have,
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whatever heroes you are inspired by, whatever moment in history you can look
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at to say, wow, it felt like that moment in history was particularly difficult, right?
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And then these freedom fighters step forward and fight, draw your inspiration
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from that, and then commit yourselves to fighting for justice for the next four
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years. because bad is what saved us the last time.
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And that is what will save us this time around.
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Yeah, we need our community. We need our allies. We need folks to be in solidarity.
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You mentioned, Kika, and this is another really important point that I don't want to gloss over.
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You mentioned that voters support, even still today, a pathway to citizenship
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and support that over deportation.
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That is critically important because this country has just elected a president
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who has promised to embark on,
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oh, he's characterized it in a number of different ways, but in a mass deportation operation,
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it feels like there's a dissonance there.
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But it is very encouraging and promising that folks support a pathway to citizenship.
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Do you think, to put you on the spot here, do you think that is realistic?
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Do you think there is hope in the next administration for anything like that
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to move forward or even anything close to it, even incrementally?
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Is that a fair question or is that it's too soon to tell? You know, that's a fair question.
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Not with the trifecta that we have, right? And by that, I mean,
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we have a Republican president, majority Republican Senate, and likely a majority Republican House.
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So the hope for any kind of law that would provide a pathway to citizenship
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is, it will be impossible.
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It's next to none, right? But the reason I mentioned that is because that to
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me is an indication of how Americans ultimately stand on issues affecting and
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pertaining to the undocumented population.
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And here's one of the things that I really want to say to people who voted for
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Trump and who said the economy was the reason that they voted for Trump.
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This nation's economy runs on the backs of immigrants.
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And so any effort to engage in mass deportation is going to affect the bottom
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line and the dollars that people benefit from.
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And so our economy will likely collapse if these deportations are carried out.
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And so it is incumbent on us to ring the alarm bells and make sure that people understand.
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But the other thing that people need to understand is that you don't know who's undocumented, right?
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Most of us don't know who's undocumented.
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And so this, and I really quite frankly think people just don't think about it.
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But as we think about the future, I want people to remember at the end of the
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day, and All of us should keep our minds thinking about this piece of the puzzle,
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which is that the vote for Trump, to me,
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was not a vote for mass deportation and a vote for the terrible things that
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he's threatening to do to immigrants.
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It was a vote about the economy, but the Americans who voted for Trump voted
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against their own self-interest because of the tremendous contributions that
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immigrants make to our nation's economy.
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Yeah, that's a whole other topic, right, that we could spend hours trying to unpack.
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How is NILC preparing?
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What is the National Immigration Law Center doing? How is NILC preparing for whatever is to come?
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So we've been at this now for 11 months, and we finished our scenario plans
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last week, and they are really detailed, and they are really exhausted.
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But here's a few things that I will say. We are planning to use the law as a
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tool to fight on behalf of immigrants, but that's not the only thing we're doing, right?
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We successfully used the law the last time and we will use the law again.
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So our brilliant, dedicated lawyers have been thinking through what our legal
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strategies are and what our targets of attack are going to be.
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We are an organization that is also deeply aligned with the immigrant rights movement.
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And so we plan to be a part of the broader efforts of the immigrant rights movement
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to engage in advocacy. And what am I talking about?
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Recall the Muslim ban and the airport activism, right?
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That slowed down the machinery, right? It was when Americans went to the airport
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and spoke out and said, this is not the America that we believe in,
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that we realized that the tools of mass resistance are critical.
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And so we plan to mobilize millions of Americans from all walks of life during critical moments.
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The family separation was another one when Americans spoke out because they
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were so repulsed by what they were seeing. So mass mobilization and grassroots
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organizing is something that we plan to do.
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You know, Victoria, you put it so beautifully and you have said it repeatedly,
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which is that we have absolutely got to be all about narrative change.
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Because the reason we are where we are is because we have not done enough to
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use culture and the arts, right, on all of those mediums to change hearts and minds.
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So we have to slow down and stop and incorporate that into our work moving forward,
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because unless and until we're intentional about changing hearts and minds and
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using tools that we haven't used before,
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we will be in this very place two, three, four, five, six years from now.
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And so that's another piece of the work that we are taking really seriously.
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Yeah. Thank you. I feel better hearing that.
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So, okay, let's talk about this mass deportations again, which,
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you know, even just yesterday, I'm hearing these plans of doing this on day
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one, right, of the next administration.
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And day one is not that far off.
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So this is what I think is causing a lot of concern and a lot of chatter around what can people do?
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How can people prepare? Is there anything that people can do to prepare?
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And where can people go to do?
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Get information to find community around that?
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The first thing we really need to do is mass education, know your rights.
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And so if you go on NILC's Instagram account, you will come across a very well-written,
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very understandable set of slides that walk you through what your rights are.
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So if you are an immigrant in this country, particularly if you're undocumented,
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you need to know what your rights are, right?
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Because the constitution protects everybody's right.
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And so what are the things, and I'll just quickly run through them even here,
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right? What are the four big takeaways that we want everybody to know?
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You have the right to remain silent. So if you're speaking to immigration officers,
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you don't have to answer the questions. You can simply say that you're choosing to remain silent.
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If an ICE agent comes to your door, you do not have to open it.
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Do not open that door, right?
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Recall that an ICE agent has to have a warrant signed by a judge and you have
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no obligation to open your door unless an ICE agent shows you a warrant.
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The other thing to know is that you have the right to speak to a.
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The other thing is, before you sign anything, right, you might be coerced.
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If you do end up in conversation with an ICE agent and they try to coerce you
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to sign papers, do not sign anything because you could be signing away your rights.
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So make sure that you have a really good understanding of whatever document
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is being put in front of you before you even consider signing it.
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And I, quite frankly, wouldn't sign anything unless I spoke to a lawyer.
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And then the last thing, well, actually, two more things. Take your immigration
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documents that you have, any valid immigration documents, and make sure that you have it with you.
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Do not carry your foreign passports with you.
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And if you are a parent and you're worried that ICE might arrest you,
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and if you do encounter an ICE officer who's threatening to arrest you,
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let them know that you have children, right?
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Because ICE could exercise discretion and let you go. And then finally,
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in our Instagram page, there's a card that you should carry with you, right?
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Because in moments of panic, if an ICE officer or Customs and Border Patrol comes to you, right?
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You're not going to remember all of these things, but you might remember that,
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oh, in my wallet, I have this card. Let me go ahead and grab it.
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The Know Your Rights right now on our Instagram account are only in English,
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but we're having them translated into Spanish and probably other languages.
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So do check out our website and our Instagram account on our websites will be
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places to go to for basic information.
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Beautiful. So there are things people can do, things people can know right now
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and share with their communities and their families and their loved ones.
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And it's at NILC on Instagram and NILC.org on the website.
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Wonderful. One last question, because I feel like this is also an issue that's coming up.
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There are folks who are feeling like, well, I'm not an immigrant,
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so this isn't going to affect me. And you've already spoken about,
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you know, to the economy.
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Yeah, I'm really curious your thoughts on people who think that because they're
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not immigrants, these issues, these actions won't affect them.
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Let me lay out some, I'm going to just focus on a few things just to explain
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and to make sure that people understand that it will affect you, right?
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Directly or indirectly, it will affect you. We've already talked about the possible
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economic collapse of many segments of our economy because they rely on immigrant labor, right?
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But let me also talk about some of the things that Trump wants to do.
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He wants to use the military to carry our deportations. Imagine.
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Being in your house or apartment and hearing rumbling down the street and opening
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up the door or looking out the window and seeing these massive tanks or military
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trucks and seeing military get out of their trucks.
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Bang on somebody's door, right?
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And seeing the military engaging in deportations in your block, on your street.
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And then you realize, oh my God, I know that person.
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That is the woman who babysits my child. That is the woman who I have bought food from.
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That is a woman who has children, whose children play with my kids.
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So using the military to carry out deportations means that also in whatever community you're in,
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you will see military tanks and military cars in your community for no reason
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other than their job will be to arrest and drag citizens away.
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That should horrify all of us. And
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that is going to be everywhere in every community in this country, right?
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There is also the possibility that they will ban immigrant kids from attending public schools.
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So think about the impact of that, right
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kid at 12 right you may start seeing immigrant
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kids right with nothing to do and nowhere
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to go during the day because they will
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no longer have access to an education or think about a heartbreak where you
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ask somebody some kid somebody can you help me out I don't see well I don't
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have my glasses on what does that sign say and to hear that child say I can't
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help you because I don't know how to read.
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Right? Because I have been denied access from attending school.
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Think about workplace raids, right? If you work in a big organization or a big
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place of work, and all of a sudden you see immigration and customs enforcement, right?
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And they don't do this gently, right?
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Overtaking your place of work, brutalizing people who they believe,
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and this is always, and this always engages, there's always a racial element to it.
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Tennessee raids were an example. White people got separated from people of color
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and all other people of color were subject to processing. Show me your papers.
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It is entirely possible that your place of work will be subject to a tour aid.
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And finally, family separation.
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There will be some families, you know, right, whose parents will be separated
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from their kids and their parents will disappear and their children will be left behind.
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So this idea that the rest of us, right, those of us with the privilege of citizenship
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or those of us who are somehow protected, that it won't affect us,
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it will affect every single person in this country.
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So right now there are these policies in place that prohibit immigration and
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customs enforcement from carrying out raid in what they consider to be sensitive
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locations. And those are hospitals and clinics and schools and places of worship.
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This new administration is likely to completely do away with those sensitive
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locations. So it may be possible that you're at a clinic or you're at a hospital
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waiting for your appointment, right?
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Or you're in the emergency room because you twisted your ankle or something happened to you, right?
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And you will see, or you will be at school dropping your child off and you will
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see customs enforcement carrying out brutal.
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Terrible raids, or you're worshiping on a Sunday and all of a sudden Immigration
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and Customs Enforcement interrupts your worship to drag people away,
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right? That is the brutality of what we're talking about.
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And so what I would say is those are the things that will affect everybody.
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It is incumbent on all of us to rise up and push back. And every single person
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who is listening and watching this podcast has to become a part of the resistance.
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And so I'm pleading and begging people to become a part of the resistance and
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do everything you can to fight for and protect your neighbors,
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your friends, your colleagues, your immigrant brothers and sisters.
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That is terrifying and shocking that we've come to this place.
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Kika, do you have thoughts, ideas, suggestions for people who want to stand
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in solidarity with those of us working in the immigrant rights space or solidarity
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with immigrants, with their neighbors, their friends? What can people do?
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I will first direct them to our website, right? Go to our website.
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Send us a note that you want to volunteer, right?
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We'll do one of two things. If you are, for example, a lawyer and want to do
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pro bono work for us, we will put you to good use.
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If you are in a specific community and you want to do local community work,
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we will share that information with immigrant rights organizations in the particular
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state. You also want to just Google immigrant rights organizations in your locality.
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So I encourage you to reach out to NILC, but also let Google be your friend.
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Look for local organizations that do this work and reach out to them and say
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that you want to volunteer and you want to be a part of the efforts of the resistance.
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Because there are efforts right now to recruit volunteers so that we are ready
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on day one to protect our communities.
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And I'm going to add one.
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Donate if you can. If you're in a position to, you know, throw in a few bucks,
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you know, the kind of work that NILC and other organizations do,
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including litigation, as you mentioned, litigation is very expensive.
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It is long term work. But all of the work of organizing, of doing advocacy,
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of, you know, filing lawsuits, and just all of it is very expensive.
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And so for those who are in a position to donate, I think that is another important
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and powerful way to get involved.
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And again, I'm going to repeat this many, many, many times over the coming months and years.
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NILC.org is a place that you can go for more information.
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You can donate. You can sign up for emails to stay in the loop on breaking updates
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and follow NILC on social media at NILC.
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Is there anything else? Yeah.
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Yes. The last point, which is, I really just want to emphasize that we do not take government funds.
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We are a nonprofit organization that relies on voluntary donations from individuals.
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And part of the reason we were successful in fighting off the worst excesses
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of the first Trump administration is that people gave it so generously.
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They realized the crisis of the moment and people opened up their wallets and
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their checkbooks and made contributions to NILC.
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So I would ask those of you who are in a position to to be as generous as you
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can in supporting our work.
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So go to our we have a web page for the donate place.
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So go to our click on the donate and and if you can we really will welcome your support.
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I want to thank our listeners for spending time with us.
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For more immigration truths, visit us at nilk.org and freedomtothrive.com.
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And make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
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I look forward to continuing this conversation with all of you.