Latest / The You Project / #2240 Knowing Is Not Doing - Ben Siong

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#2240 Knowing Is Not Doing - Ben Siong · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: G'day team, it's Harps, it's the You Project.
0:02
Speaker 2: It's Monday, it's a big Monday here at the bloody TYPHQ,
0:08
Speaker 2: three podcasts, couple of coaching sessions. I've got to go
0:11
Speaker 2: and lift some weights as well, chat to a few people.
0:13
Speaker 2: It's been a solid day from Monday. I like to
0:15
Speaker 2: ease into it, but there's been no ease. It's just
0:18
Speaker 2: been full steam ahead, but.
0:20
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. I've had some interesting chats today
0:22
Speaker 1: and I'm about to have another one.
0:23
Speaker 2: I'm very excited to So we haven't officially met. We've
0:27
Speaker 2: kind of met over the phone. Now we're meeting virtually
0:29
Speaker 2: Ben Siong and myself. We've got a mutual friend, Terry,
0:33
Speaker 2: who connected us. Shout out to Tez.
0:37
Speaker 3: Hi, mate.
0:37
Speaker 1: How are you?
0:38
Speaker 3: I'm very well. Thank you for having me on.
0:42
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a pleasure. You're a straight up smarty pants.
0:44
Speaker 1: I had a look at some of the stuff you do.
0:45
Speaker 2: We have a similar background, similar-ish, helping people and with
0:50
Speaker 2: their bodies and their minds and their issues and their
0:52
Speaker 2: habits and their behaviors and their outcomes and all those
0:55
Speaker 2: kind of things that people are interested in. Tell my
0:59
Speaker 2: audience a little bit about you, you know, kind of the,
1:04
Speaker 2: we'll get into all of it, but maybe your evolution
1:07
Speaker 2: and what you do now, that'd be great.
1:11
Speaker 3: I've been in the fitness industry, I would probably say
1:14
Speaker 3: about 22 to 23 years full time. Prior to that,
1:22
Speaker 3: I was doing psychology in university, came out, decided that
1:28
Speaker 3: after doing my honours, I didn't want to pursue a PhD.
1:32
Speaker 3: Unlike yourself, you've gone all the way and I've just gone, no,
1:35
Speaker 3: I don't really want to pursue that. I decided to
1:39
Speaker 3: get my interest out in a few other areas, marketing
1:42
Speaker 3: being one of them, and then just decided, you know what,
1:45
Speaker 3: maybe I should just get into fitness full-time. I already
1:48
Speaker 3: was quite involved in fitness. I used to be an
1:52
Speaker 3: obese kid growing up and that really was the root
1:58
Speaker 3: of uh, I guess my change, um, uh, growing up
2:03
Speaker 3: being ridiculed. And, and in fact, I grew up in Singapore, right. And, uh,
2:08
Speaker 3: it was, it was very interesting growing up in a
2:09
Speaker 3: society where, uh, everyone kind of looked at you aesthetically and, and, uh,
2:15
Speaker 3: had something to say, whether it was a parent or
2:17
Speaker 3: an auntie or a friend, And it was never anything positive.
2:21
Speaker 3: So I grew up with a lot of, I guess,
2:25
Speaker 3: a lot of fear, a lot of anger on how
2:29
Speaker 3: I looked and a lot of ridicule. And that kind
2:34
Speaker 3: of shaped me into making a change for myself. And
2:36
Speaker 3: I remember when I decided to make that change, my...
2:39
Speaker 3: my best friend, we were in a lift together. And
2:43
Speaker 3: that was kind of the pivotal moment. He looked at
2:45
Speaker 3: me and he said, you know, Ben, you're really quite fat,
2:49
Speaker 3: aren't you? And that snapped. And I went, you know,
2:53
Speaker 3: you were meant to be my best mate. But at
2:56
Speaker 3: that time, this was the one thing you could say
2:58
Speaker 3: to me when both of us were alone. And I'm
3:00
Speaker 3: going to show you. And so it took me, you know,
3:04
Speaker 3: that decision, that split second. And I went, I'm going
3:07
Speaker 3: to make some changes. And so from that day onwards,
3:09
Speaker 3: I started to make some changes physically to lose weight.
3:16
Speaker 3: I did it in the worst way possible, starving myself.
3:20
Speaker 3: It was the only way I knew how to. And
3:22
Speaker 3: what it showed me was I was able to conjure
3:27
Speaker 3: up this determination more than I could ever expect from myself.
3:31
Speaker 3: I remember running in my room. Because I was scared
3:35
Speaker 3: of running outside. So I ran on the spot in
3:39
Speaker 3: my room in front of a mirror every day for
3:40
Speaker 3: an hour and a half. And I did that until
3:44
Speaker 3: I lost 25 kilos. So that was, you know, I
3:49
Speaker 3: needed to do something. And so when I made that
3:52
Speaker 3: change and I lost all that weight, people couldn't recognize me. Yeah.
3:59
Speaker 3: And for once, it was... And understanding that I could
4:04
Speaker 3: actively change the person I wanted to be.
4:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:10
Speaker 3: And that was the turning point. And from then on,
4:13
Speaker 3: fitness became the pivotal interest in my life more than
4:17
Speaker 3: anything else. It was also why I wanted to do
4:20
Speaker 3: psychology because I wanted to understand how I could help
4:23
Speaker 3: obese individuals and myself with all the ridicule and all that.
4:28
Speaker 3: And so that led me on this journey. And eventually
4:31
Speaker 3: I decided to take on fitness as a full-time gig.
4:35
Speaker 3: And I said, okay, let's hop into it. And so
4:37
Speaker 3: I spent a good eight years in a commercial gym
4:40
Speaker 3: working as a personal trainer and learned a lot of
4:44
Speaker 3: things within that period of time. And the more I learned,
4:46
Speaker 3: the dumber I felt, the more I felt I needed
4:48
Speaker 3: to pursue a lot more. And that was really interesting.
4:54
Speaker 3: And so after that period of time, I decided to
4:58
Speaker 3: open my own facility. And lo and behold, that's where
5:00
Speaker 3: I am right now. I've got this facility, Australian Strength Performance.
5:05
Speaker 3: We're based in Brunswick East. in Melbourne. Uh, and we've
5:09
Speaker 3: been open now for the last 14 years.
5:13
Speaker 2: Mate, that's an amazing, you know, my listeners that know
5:15
Speaker 2: me well, they're listening to your story and they're like,
5:20
Speaker 2: he's just, he's just you Craig, but from another country,
5:23
Speaker 2: he's just you from another life.
5:26
Speaker 1: So I have the same story. I was a morbidly
5:28
Speaker 1: obese kid.
5:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was 90 kilos and also lost about 25,
5:34
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more.
5:36
Speaker 1: Um, And yeah, it's how old were you when you
5:41
Speaker 1: did that, mate?
5:42
Speaker 3: I was about 16. Right. Yeah.
5:44
Speaker 2: I was a little bit younger, but I remember I
5:48
Speaker 2: won't bore my audience with it, but I also had
5:50
Speaker 2: an experience where I just felt, you know, embarrassed and
5:55
Speaker 2: humiliated and all the things, all the negative emotions that
5:59
Speaker 2: go or can go with how you look or how
6:02
Speaker 2: you think you look or how you're perceived by others.
6:05
Speaker 2: And Yeah, it's a– I also turned it around quite quickly,
6:11
Speaker 2: and like you, I had no idea what I was doing.
6:14
Speaker 2: I just– whatever I ate, I just halved it. So
6:17
Speaker 2: whatever I would normally eat in a day, I just ate.
6:19
Speaker 2: So if I would have six Weet-Bix for breakfast, I
6:22
Speaker 2: would have three.
6:23
Speaker 3: Okay.
6:24
Speaker 1: This was my protocol.
6:26
Speaker 3: I was just logic. Oh, yeah.
6:28
Speaker 2: I mean, if I'd have two pies for lunch, I
6:30
Speaker 2: would have one, like obviously– like the quality of food. Well,
6:34
Speaker 2: my mom actually was a good cook, but my strategy
6:37
Speaker 2: was essentially expend more, put in less. I didn't understand
6:41
Speaker 2: calories in and out. I didn't understand energy deficit. I
6:44
Speaker 2: didn't understand anything, but I knew that if I moved
6:47
Speaker 2: more and I put less in my body, that something
6:49
Speaker 2: would happen. And it seems like for you that, correct
6:55
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, but well, I'll start with me
6:58
Speaker 2: and see if this resonates. So I realized when I
7:01
Speaker 2: lost a whole lot of weight, I went from 90
7:03
Speaker 2: down to about low sixties and not straight away, but
7:08
Speaker 2: within a period of time, I recognized that, that my
7:13
Speaker 2: mind and my thinking and my choices and my rituals
7:16
Speaker 2: and my habits and all that kind of internal stuff, um,
7:21
Speaker 2: was more of this, like my body was almost the
7:25
Speaker 2: consequence where my thinking choices and rituals and habits were
7:29
Speaker 2: the problem. And then when I started working with people
7:32
Speaker 2: like you did in gyms and coaching and eventually PTing
7:36
Speaker 2: and back in the old days, just being a gym instructor,
7:40
Speaker 2: I found I was always talking to people about the
7:42
Speaker 2: psychology and the emotion and the kind of the human
7:45
Speaker 2: behavior part more than sets and reps and progressive overload
7:49
Speaker 2: and anatomy and physiology and nutrition. I'm like, oh, this
7:53
Speaker 2: is not really about, it's kind of about your body,
7:55
Speaker 2: but it's almost like your body is just the result
7:58
Speaker 2: of the other stuff. Seems like you were there as well.
8:01
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, 100%. I would agree with that. I went
8:05
Speaker 3: through a period as well of, once I got down
8:08
Speaker 3: to a very low weight, I remember I was down
8:13
Speaker 3: to about 50 kilos, if anything, and I went from
8:15
Speaker 3: one extreme to the other extreme, so much so that
8:18
Speaker 3: when you talked about you halving your food, for me,
8:22
Speaker 3: halving wasn't even a strategy that I thought at first.
8:24
Speaker 3: It was literally one meal a day, Right. It was
8:29
Speaker 3: a bowl of cereal, if anything, to start off with.
8:31
Speaker 3: And then that's it. And I would convince myself I
8:33
Speaker 3: would be full. I spent a whole year going through
8:36
Speaker 3: a cycle where I felt I could dig my food up.
8:40
Speaker 3: My grandmother thought I was possessed. She wanted to take
8:42
Speaker 3: me to the exorcist. Really? Yeah. It was a crazy time.
8:49
Speaker 3: It was a crazy time. So I wasn't diagnosed with
8:52
Speaker 3: bulimia or anorexia, but I was close to it. I
8:55
Speaker 3: believe I was close to it. Mentally, I was so
8:57
Speaker 3: convincing to myself that I didn't need to eat, that
9:00
Speaker 3: I could be full for days.
9:03
Speaker 1: Yes.
9:04
Speaker 3: And so that was something really interesting. What I did realize, though,
9:08
Speaker 3: was how powerful my mind was in all of this.
9:14
Speaker 3: My mind could convince myself not only about the physical hunger,
9:18
Speaker 3: but also if I really wanted to change something, I
9:21
Speaker 3: could make a change to what I thought was fixed.
9:28
Speaker 3: And so that actually gave me a lot of basis
9:31
Speaker 3: to kind of work on, you know, which led me
9:33
Speaker 3: to psychology and understanding that. And so you were right,
9:37
Speaker 3: you know, when I became a personal trainer, the notion
9:42
Speaker 3: of all this reps and sets and science was important,
9:47
Speaker 3: but undergirding that was how could I relay it to
9:51
Speaker 3: my clients so that they could relate to it, they
9:53
Speaker 3: could understand it. Everyone understands that differently. How could I
10:00
Speaker 3: relate that information to them? Because at the end of
10:02
Speaker 3: the day, information is only as good as someone understanding that.
10:07
Speaker 1: Yes.
10:09
Speaker 3: It was always a quest to make sure that it
10:12
Speaker 3: could be relatable to that individual. If they didn't understand it,
10:16
Speaker 3: in what other ways could I give them that information
10:19
Speaker 3: to that they can understand it. Yeah.
10:22
Speaker 2: What I think is interesting is when you go through
10:24
Speaker 2: a metamorphosis or some kind of significant personal change, let's
10:30
Speaker 2: hope for the better in this case, whether it's physical
10:33
Speaker 2: or whether or not it's academic or whether or not
10:35
Speaker 2: you build a business or brand or whatever it is,
10:37
Speaker 2: you do something positive, although there are negative moments in it,
10:43
Speaker 2: I think you kind of start to realize your potential
10:45
Speaker 2: a little bit, as in you start to understand, oh,
10:49
Speaker 2: If I make certain decisions and do certain things and
10:53
Speaker 2: I don't give up, I'm not useless after all. I'm
10:57
Speaker 2: not stupid after all. I'm not destined for obesity or
11:02
Speaker 2: poverty or loneliness.
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Speaker 1: This is not my destiny. This is just a story
11:06
Speaker 1: in my head.
11:08
Speaker 2: And then for me, the physical change was good, but
11:11
Speaker 2: the psychological and emotional kind of curtain being pulled back that, oh, Craig,
11:16
Speaker 2: you could probably do lots of amazing things if you
11:21
Speaker 2: set your mind to that. Not that I am of
11:23
Speaker 2: myself amazing, but I could do some amazing things for
11:27
Speaker 2: me if I persevere, if I choose discomfort, if I
11:31
Speaker 2: choose to be resilient, if I make courageous decisions, if
11:35
Speaker 2: I step into the fear. All of those, I mean,
11:38
Speaker 2: kind of personal development, you know, cliches now. But that
11:43
Speaker 2: thing where, oh, it's my life becomes different as an
11:47
Speaker 2: experience when I become different. So my life is kind
11:50
Speaker 2: of the same, but in the middle of that life,
11:53
Speaker 2: I am now different. So therefore my experience is totally different.
11:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that for sure.
12:01
Speaker 2: Did it, for you, was there a moment in time
12:04
Speaker 2: where you thought with your clients, I need to shift
12:07
Speaker 2: my focus from purely physiology and, you know, anatomy and
12:12
Speaker 2: nutrition to be more of a a psychologist or a
12:19
Speaker 2: coach or a, you know, cause I feel like most
12:21
Speaker 2: of the time, most of us coaches or trainers or
12:25
Speaker 2: exercise scientists or whatever, we're not talking about the fundamentals
12:31
Speaker 2: of training. Like we talk about it, we go through it,
12:34
Speaker 2: but you know, what did you eat for breakfast? Why
12:37
Speaker 2: did you eat that? Or tell me what you did
12:39
Speaker 2: on the weekend. Tell me how that experience was. Tell
12:42
Speaker 2: me when you made that decision, what, what was going on?
12:46
Speaker 2: Like for me, even when I didn't really understand human
12:49
Speaker 2: behavior or psychology, as I do now, I was always
12:53
Speaker 2: kind of found myself in those conversations.
12:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, To be very honest with you, initially, no. Initially,
13:02
Speaker 3: it was all about... When I first became a personal trainer,
13:05
Speaker 3: my goal was... I saw the change that I created
13:10
Speaker 3: for myself with training. And I just really wanted to
13:15
Speaker 3: replicate how good I felt to my clients. I think
13:18
Speaker 3: a lot of personal trainers enter the industry for that
13:20
Speaker 3: same reason. They have some sort of change that they've
13:23
Speaker 3: created for themselves... And they feel that, hey, now I
13:26
Speaker 3: can perhaps bring hope to someone, right? To make someone's
13:30
Speaker 3: life better by doing exactly the same thing. And quickly,
13:34
Speaker 3: when you get into the industry, I think for a
13:35
Speaker 3: lot of personal trainers, they start to realize that it's
13:39
Speaker 3: not just about what they can do for themselves. It
13:42
Speaker 3: is how they can relate that information in a way
13:45
Speaker 3: that their clients can understand it. Not every method you
13:51
Speaker 3: use in yourself can be used with your clients, essentially.
13:57
Speaker 3: That in itself is not just an understanding of psychology.
14:01
Speaker 3: It's actually an understanding of business. Most personal trainers are
14:06
Speaker 3: not business people, nor do they get into this industry
14:08
Speaker 3: understanding that in business, what I need to do is
14:11
Speaker 3: I need to solve problems. Everyone has a different problem.
14:16
Speaker 3: How can I solve it in a way that they understand?
14:19
Speaker 3: Not in a way that I understand, but in a
14:21
Speaker 3: way that they understand. So a lot of trainers go
14:23
Speaker 3: in with the, I guess the, what is it? The
14:29
Speaker 3: hardware of let's understand the physiology and let's understand the
14:33
Speaker 3: science and all that's great. But then when they are
14:36
Speaker 3: trying to relate to a client, everyone's situation is so different.
14:40
Speaker 3: Everyone's level of commitment is so different. The words that
14:45
Speaker 3: they use, the anchors that they use to relate to
14:49
Speaker 3: their why, why they're doing it is going to be
14:51
Speaker 3: so different. And so if you're just going to be
14:54
Speaker 3: talking about physiology, you're not going to solve the person's problems. Hence,
15:01
Speaker 3: that becomes a business issue. So they're not able to
15:04
Speaker 3: run a business. I quickly learned that. And a result
15:08
Speaker 3: of that was actually doing an NLP course. So I
15:13
Speaker 3: went to get some NLP courses done. And it was
15:16
Speaker 3: very interesting to understand the fundamentals of what NLP actually is.
15:24
Speaker 3: Some people call it a pseudoscience or a meta-science. It's
15:27
Speaker 3: not a hard science. But just the concepts and understanding
15:32
Speaker 3: that we all see things quite differently. We see things
15:36
Speaker 3: and we construct our own world. So in order for
15:41
Speaker 3: someone to understand something, you need to see the world
15:45
Speaker 3: through their lens. Yeah.
15:48
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you probably know that. But in psych, they
15:52
Speaker 2: call that theory of mind. and the ability to understand
15:56
Speaker 2: how others think. And my research, my PhD is around
15:58
Speaker 2: a thing called meta perception, which is your ability to
16:03
Speaker 2: understand how people perceive and experience you. So what's the
16:08
Speaker 2: Ben experience like for your clients? What's the Ben experience
16:11
Speaker 2: like for your customers, for your friends, for your family?
16:14
Speaker 2: And as you said, you know, understanding that What will
16:20
Speaker 2: work for one person won't for another because they're not
16:23
Speaker 2: the same people. Perhaps in a business concept, perhaps, but
16:30
Speaker 2: how we educate, how we inform, how we interact with,
16:33
Speaker 2: how we converse with, how we build a relationship with,
16:37
Speaker 2: how we develop rapport with an individual, that's going to
16:40
Speaker 2: vary person to person. Then being able to, as you said,
16:44
Speaker 2: to try to disseminate what can be complicated things in
16:48
Speaker 2: simple and easy to understand ways for people so they
16:51
Speaker 2: know what.
16:52
Speaker 1: You're talking about. They're a bit inspired. They're a bit motivated.
16:56
Speaker 2: And because they understand the language, it's much more easy
16:59
Speaker 2: to operationalize than if you're talking over their head.
17:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:04
Speaker 2: You know, so that, by the way, everyone, NLP is
17:08
Speaker 2: neuro-linguistic programming, if you want to have a Google of that.
17:12
Speaker 2: What's the difference, Ben, between say discipline and obsession. It
17:20
Speaker 2: feels like they're quite close sometimes.
17:24
Speaker 3: I would say they're two different sides of the same coin. Yeah.
17:30
Speaker 1: So if somebody's obsessed versus somebody's disciplined, what are we seeing?
17:38
Speaker 3: In what context?
17:40
Speaker 2: To me, discipline seems healthy, obsession seems unhealthy, or it
17:45
Speaker 2: can be.
17:46
Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah, I would back to differ as well. I mean,
17:50
Speaker 3: some people that are too disciplined, to them can be
17:55
Speaker 3: a healthy thing, but to every other person looking in,
17:58
Speaker 3: it can be an extremely unhealthy thing. So you can
18:01
Speaker 3: see a lot of individuals out there that are extremely
18:04
Speaker 3: rigid in their supplementation program, that are extremely rigid in
18:09
Speaker 3: their lifestyle. Huberman is one of them. Um, you know,
18:13
Speaker 3: and he's got all these different protocols that he does. Uh,
18:16
Speaker 3: and it's so specific, right. It is so specific. Now. Yeah.
18:22
Speaker 3: I admire that. I think that's discipline. That's fantastic. But
18:25
Speaker 3: if that discipline works for you and you say it
18:28
Speaker 3: works for you, that doesn't mean that this is necessarily
18:31
Speaker 3: discipline that would work for every other person, because sometimes for,
18:36
Speaker 3: for someone to relate to that, they need to be
18:38
Speaker 3: able to do in their life. So yes. Is that
18:41
Speaker 3: good discipline? I mean, it is discipline. It's great discipline.
18:44
Speaker 3: You can call it an obsession. If you look at
18:47
Speaker 3: Brian Johnson, it's the same sort of thing. These guys
18:50
Speaker 3: are looking at longevity and they're obsessed with it. But
18:54
Speaker 3: being too obsessed about it, being too disciplined about their lifestyle,
18:58
Speaker 3: now Brian Johnson has got an autoimmune that at the
19:01
Speaker 3: end of the day, is it because he has over-optimized himself?
19:05
Speaker 3: In everything. So that begs the question. I mean, discipline
19:11
Speaker 3: and obsession is, I think it's two different sides of
19:15
Speaker 3: the same coin, depending on who you're talking to.
19:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's like so many times,
19:21
Speaker 2: and I'm not particularly extreme, but I don't, like I've
19:25
Speaker 2: never had alcohol. I've never been, I've never used drugs.
19:28
Speaker 2: I've never been drunk, all that stuff. And I eat
19:30
Speaker 2: pretty strictly and I work out every day and all
19:33
Speaker 2: that stuff. But yeah, a lot of people would say,
19:37
Speaker 2: looking through their lens at my behavior, they would say
19:39
Speaker 2: you're obsessed or that they would say you're too dis
19:43
Speaker 2: or how, but to me, there's no sense of obsession.
19:48
Speaker 2: Like to me, it's just my normal operating system. it's
19:50
Speaker 2: just like choose it's monday it's tuesday it's breakfast.
19:54
Speaker 3: It'll be the same it'll be the same thing as
19:56
Speaker 3: as myself 100 percent My lifestyle choices, what I choose
20:01
Speaker 3: to do, very much like yourself, I don't drink, I
20:03
Speaker 3: don't do drugs. My nutrition is fixed in a certain
20:08
Speaker 3: way and I love what I eat. But when people
20:10
Speaker 3: look in, it's how do you live like this? You're
20:13
Speaker 3: missing out on life. So what they define as being
20:17
Speaker 3: obsessed is what I define as it's just part of
20:20
Speaker 3: my lifestyle.
20:22
Speaker 1: That's so much.
20:24
Speaker 2: There's one of my favorite sayings from She was an
20:27
Speaker 2: author in the early 20th century, in the early 1900s,
20:32
Speaker 2: Anais Nin. And this is, a few people have said it.
20:35
Speaker 2: She said, we don't see things as they are. We
20:37
Speaker 2: see things as we are. So it depends on the
20:40
Speaker 2: lens through which, you know, it depends what you're looking
20:43
Speaker 2: at it and the window or the lens through which
20:46
Speaker 2: you analyze that. What's your, I mean, these are broad questions,
20:51
Speaker 2: but we've never had more information or education about Well,
20:56
Speaker 2: not that all of it's great, by the way. But,
20:59
Speaker 2: you know, all research, we've never had more Ben's or Craig's.
21:02
Speaker 2: We've never had more voices in the fitness wilderness. You know,
21:06
Speaker 2: we've never had more gyms, PTs, exercise, physiologists, you know, Pilates,
21:13
Speaker 2: this and that. But we're sitting somewhere around two thirds
21:17
Speaker 2: obesity and or overweight. what's the relationship there, do you think?
21:24
Speaker 2: Why do we have so much stuff at our disposal
21:27
Speaker 2: to help us, so many resources and so much knowledge,
21:32
Speaker 2: but as a population, we don't seem to be improving?
21:36
Speaker 3: Where do we start with this? I mean, isn't that
21:39
Speaker 3: the paradox that we all talk about?
21:41
Speaker 2: That's why we got you on, bro. That's why we
21:44
Speaker 2: got you on. I said, who's the best? I went,
21:46
Speaker 2: I want him to solve this conundrum.
21:49
Speaker 3: I think this is the biggest paradox. And the way
21:52
Speaker 3: I would look at it is that there is too
21:55
Speaker 3: much information. We are too overfed with information so much
22:01
Speaker 3: so that we don't know what to choose or how
22:04
Speaker 3: to choose that information. Especially nowadays, especially the post-COVID era
22:09
Speaker 3: with social media and everything that's out there, information is
22:13
Speaker 3: more than abundant. It is being shoved into your face.
22:15
Speaker 3: Algorithms that choose certain pieces of information for you, they
22:19
Speaker 3: overcomplicate a lot of things. Second thing, I think that
22:24
Speaker 3: there is a lot of truth in how we are
22:29
Speaker 3: being coerced, persuaded, based on the way our world is
22:35
Speaker 3: being painted for us. It's like we're in a matrix,
22:38
Speaker 3: if you want to put it that way. Marketing, you know,
22:42
Speaker 3: there is a reason why there is food marketing that
22:47
Speaker 3: exists out there, and that is to paint a particular
22:50
Speaker 3: product in a certain way that we want the product.
22:53
Speaker 3: Foods are getting... You know, the good foods, the foods
22:58
Speaker 3: that should be most natural are being the most expensive.
23:02
Speaker 3: And yet the foods that are the most highly processed
23:04
Speaker 3: are the cheapest foods.
23:06
Speaker 1: Yes.
23:07
Speaker 3: And this increases, you know, when you look at the studies.
23:11
Speaker 3: And again, there's so many. I was just watching a
23:17
Speaker 3: documentary on, I think it's Insights in SBS that was
23:22
Speaker 3: talking about it.
23:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, Insights, yeah.
23:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, very, very interesting insight episode on processed foods. And
23:31
Speaker 3: they had a food scientist down there that was talking
23:34
Speaker 3: about the level of processed foods and obviously drawing the
23:37
Speaker 3: fact that because we are taking so much highly processed
23:41
Speaker 3: foods nowadays, that could be labeled as purely fine for us.
23:45
Speaker 3: It doesn't increase our fullness. It just makes us want
23:50
Speaker 3: more to have more. But also there is... certain levels
23:55
Speaker 3: of scientific evidence to show what high amounts of processed
24:00
Speaker 3: foods actually do to our body. As he was saying that, obviously,
24:06
Speaker 3: they are counterparts from large food groups that were there
24:09
Speaker 3: as well that were scientists. And again, they use science
24:13
Speaker 3: back to differ, to pull everything back to the facts that, hey,
24:16
Speaker 3: processed food is actually good. It's not bad. The fact
24:19
Speaker 3: that the processing is a function of modern day society. digestible,
24:30
Speaker 3: to increase the absorbability of these foods. And so they're
24:34
Speaker 3: actually good. It's just the amount of how much you
24:37
Speaker 3: would take in, but the amount is up to you.
24:39
Speaker 3: So you cannot say the food is bad or evil.
24:42
Speaker 3: It is your choice and how much you're taking in,
24:44
Speaker 3: just like anything else.
24:47
Speaker 2: Do you ever talk about the relationship that people have
24:51
Speaker 2: with food?
24:51
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that.
24:57
Speaker 2: So you know, because I feel we lose, I mean,
25:01
Speaker 2: other than energy and fuel and nutrition, it's almost like
25:06
Speaker 2: it's a best friend, it's therapy, it's medicine, it's avoidance.
25:11
Speaker 1: It's dopamine, it's all the feels. It's everything.
25:16
Speaker 2: How do we, I mean, I know there's no three-step
25:19
Speaker 2: answer to this, so I'm just chucking it out there.
25:21
Speaker 2: How do we begin to understand our relationship with food,
25:26
Speaker 2: what that does to us, and then maybe create a
25:29
Speaker 2: healthier version of that?
25:31
Speaker 3: I think the relationship with food goes back to the
25:36
Speaker 3: day we're born. In fact, when you look at every
25:38
Speaker 3: parent out there, sweets are being used as a treat.
25:43
Speaker 3: Why is it not? Because you're giving a child processed sugar,
25:46
Speaker 3: why is it called a treat? Yes. If you're doing
25:51
Speaker 3: something good, let me treat you with a sweet. If
25:53
Speaker 3: you're doing bad, I will withhold the treat from you.
25:57
Speaker 3: So from a very young age, food has been used
26:00
Speaker 3: as a trigger for something, whether it's good, whether it's bad.
26:05
Speaker 3: When you are happy with the family, let's go out
26:08
Speaker 3: to celebrate. Let's eat something that is typically high in sugar,
26:13
Speaker 3: high in fat, because it makes us feel good. When
26:16
Speaker 3: we are sad, let's go to the fridge, let's pull
26:18
Speaker 3: out an ice cream. Again, let's go for something high
26:21
Speaker 3: in sugar, high in fat. So at the end of
26:24
Speaker 3: the day, food and emotions go hand in hand. And
26:28
Speaker 3: we are all emotional creatures. We are driven by instinct
26:33
Speaker 3: and emotion from the day we're born. We're being taught
26:36
Speaker 3: about that. So a lot of the times how people
26:40
Speaker 3: relate to food is not just based on now. It's
26:46
Speaker 3: not the now. It is something that has been brought
26:49
Speaker 3: up in their lifestyle. Some people relate to food in
26:55
Speaker 3: a much larger emotional way just because the family could
26:59
Speaker 3: have done that. Maybe that's the only portion of themselves
27:03
Speaker 3: they could control. They can't control everything else, but they
27:07
Speaker 3: can control what they put in their mouth. It is
27:09
Speaker 3: a method of controlling their emotion, controlling what they do.
27:16
Speaker 2: So with you and I, for example, there seemed to
27:20
Speaker 2: be almost like a psychological, emotional, and perhaps behavioral tipping point.
27:26
Speaker 2: For me, there was a social component because it involved
27:30
Speaker 2: the year eight swimming sports and being humiliated by my
27:33
Speaker 2: fat body, right? So do you think for.
27:38
Speaker 2: For many people, something happens. There's some internal shift or
27:44
Speaker 2: it's just a gradual awakening or realization or something else.
27:49
Speaker 3: There is an internal shift, but the shift is based on,
27:53
Speaker 3: I think, their values. What do they value? So, for example,
27:59
Speaker 3: why I decided to lose that weight was not based
28:03
Speaker 3: on health. Yeah. Yes. It was based on On confidence.
28:11
Speaker 3: I wanted to feel confident.
28:14
Speaker 1: Right.
28:14
Speaker 3: Right. Because I looked a certain way. Now, aesthetics, it's
28:18
Speaker 3: not even about looking a certain way. First, it is
28:21
Speaker 3: about confidence. Looking a certain way was a product.
28:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:27
Speaker 3: Of doing what I needed to do. And then I
28:29
Speaker 3: got my confidence, which was the end point. Right. So
28:32
Speaker 3: I wanted to get confidence. And so my value system changed.
28:38
Speaker 3: I had to change my value system, and my value
28:40
Speaker 3: system would be I'm searching for this one thing called confidence,
28:44
Speaker 3: and I'll do whatever it takes to help me get confident.
28:48
Speaker 3: And if this means changing my physique, then I will
28:51
Speaker 3: change my physique. Now, how do I go about doing that?
28:54
Speaker 3: I would stop myself. Okay, let's start with that. So internally,
28:58
Speaker 3: it wasn't about let me think about how healthy I
29:02
Speaker 3: could be. It was I needed to get my confidence back.
29:06
Speaker 3: How do I do that? Because I was so humiliated
29:09
Speaker 3: by this guy, I wanted to find my confidence. And
29:11
Speaker 3: as a result of searching for my confidence and putting
29:13
Speaker 3: my confidence as the highest value in my priority system,
29:18
Speaker 3: that was what I did. I think some people, when
29:20
Speaker 3: they hit a particular point in their life, they would
29:23
Speaker 3: have that epiphany moment. And that epiphany moment is all
29:25
Speaker 3: about shifting that value system. So for example, some clients
29:28
Speaker 3: that I train... They are moms, for example, that have
29:34
Speaker 3: dedicated their lives to bringing up their four kids and
29:37
Speaker 3: family and all that and their value system. was always
29:40
Speaker 3: family first. It was all about the kids, all about family.
29:45
Speaker 3: And at that time where they're bringing up their kids,
29:47
Speaker 3: it will be useless to tell them you need to
29:49
Speaker 3: eat a certain way, you need to live a certain way,
29:51
Speaker 3: you need to look after yourself first because nothing registers
29:54
Speaker 3: for them more than their value of looking after their family.
29:57
Speaker 3: That's number one in their value system. So no matter
30:01
Speaker 3: what they do, no matter what we tell them that
30:03
Speaker 3: they need to prioritize their health. it will not work
30:07
Speaker 3: for them. It always goes again. So they're not able
30:09
Speaker 3: to do a nutrition plan properly because for them, it's
30:13
Speaker 3: not about nutrition. It's about, let me look after my
30:16
Speaker 3: family first. But once they understand that a shift happens
30:20
Speaker 3: when they go, okay, my kids are now, they can
30:22
Speaker 3: do what they need to do by themselves. They don't
30:24
Speaker 3: need me. I need to find myself. This is where
30:28
Speaker 3: their value system changes. Once they have that change, this
30:33
Speaker 3: is where I believe they start to make choices of
30:38
Speaker 3: foods that stick and it's not about health necessarily it's
30:41
Speaker 3: about changing that that value system.
30:47
Speaker 2: All right let's dig into this this is interesting okay
30:50
Speaker 2: so let's rewind to you in the elevator with your
30:53
Speaker 2: mate who basically what did he tell you again.
30:56
Speaker 3: What were his words uh he couldn't believe that i
31:00
Speaker 3: was so fat.
31:01
Speaker 2: Right So one of your mates that you loved cares
31:05
Speaker 2: about you or you thought he cared about you, you
31:07
Speaker 2: care about him.
31:07
Speaker 3: My best mate.
31:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:12
Speaker 3: Yeah.
31:13
Speaker 1: Shout out to that guy. Shout out to that guy.
31:15
Speaker 2: Anyway, but I wonder if he had not have said that.
31:21
Speaker 2: I wonder if that event didn't occur. whether or not
31:24
Speaker 2: you would have taken the action, made the decision. Well,
31:27
Speaker 2: clearly you probably wouldn't have on that day. So maybe
31:31
Speaker 2: that moment in time, maybe that little pain point, that
31:34
Speaker 2: was a catalyst. Yes, the values, but I also think, well,
31:39
Speaker 2: let's start there because I've got another bit. So what
31:42
Speaker 2: do you think about that? If he didn't mention that,
31:44
Speaker 2: what might have happened?
31:47
Speaker 3: I don't know. I actually would not. I don't know.
31:51
Speaker 3: I think if I was brought up with friends that
31:54
Speaker 3: supported me, irregardless of how I looked, I don't think
31:57
Speaker 3: I would have made that change. Wow. Not at all.
32:00
Speaker 2: Wow.
32:02
Speaker 3: But I know the society that I was brought up
32:05
Speaker 3: in was a very judgmental society. I strongly felt that
32:10
Speaker 3: if I did grow up within Australia itself, where maybe
32:15
Speaker 3: even amongst... Other school kids, I may not be the
32:20
Speaker 3: biggest one. I would probably not have made those changes
32:25
Speaker 3: because I would have the confidence in playing with people
32:27
Speaker 3: without being called any names or being ridiculed because I
32:32
Speaker 3: would have fitted in. The fact that I was the fattest,
32:37
Speaker 3: I stuck out like a sore thumb. I was short
32:41
Speaker 3: and fat at the same time.
32:42
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:44
Speaker 3: And so that gave me, you know, that gave them
32:47
Speaker 3: every reason to laugh at me. Yeah. Wow.
32:51
Speaker 1: Wow. Kids.
32:52
Speaker 3: So, yes.
32:54
Speaker 2: What about, so there's the thing that we want, like
32:58
Speaker 2: what you wanted was confidence and weight loss was the conduit.
33:02
Speaker 2: Like that was the pathway to the thing. So there's
33:05
Speaker 2: the thing that we want.
33:06
Speaker 1: Yes. And then there's the reason that we wanted it.
33:09
Speaker 1: So in this case, the values.
33:11
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering, like with your story about the mum,
33:15
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, surely we don't need to wait for
33:18
Speaker 2: mums to get to the point in their journey where
33:22
Speaker 2: their kids are all now somewhat independent before they can
33:26
Speaker 2: look after themselves. So how do we, how do we,
33:29
Speaker 2: because Most, if you, if I've got a hand, if
33:33
Speaker 2: I've got a hundred people in a room or 200
33:34
Speaker 2: people in a room and I say, put up your hand,
33:37
Speaker 2: if one of your values is health, every hand goes up.
33:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.
33:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if I say, don't overthink it, go with me.
33:44
Speaker 2: But how many of you would like to be a
33:46
Speaker 2: bit fitter, a bit leaner, a bit stronger, a bit healthier,
33:49
Speaker 2: a bit more functional from a physical point of.
33:51
Speaker 1: View, every hand goes up. If not nearly every hand,
33:56
Speaker 1: but at.
33:56
Speaker 2: The same time, These are people often who will listen
34:01
Speaker 2: to me, who will put up their hand, who will
34:03
Speaker 2: nod their head, who will agree and may even have
34:07
Speaker 2: a light bulb moment or two and then walk away
34:10
Speaker 2: a huge percentage and change nothing.
34:13
Speaker 3: Correct.
34:14
Speaker 1: What's that about? What's that about, Doc?
34:17
Speaker 3: That's about the position of the value in their value system.
34:22
Speaker 3: It's the same thing. So who doesn't want to become successful?
34:25
Speaker 3: healthy and look a certain way, fill a million bucks.
34:29
Speaker 3: In fact, if you go to a crowd and you say,
34:31
Speaker 3: who wants $ 10 million right now? Everyone will put their
34:33
Speaker 3: hands up. Now, if you go, okay, would you work
34:35
Speaker 3: for $ 10 million? Yeah, everyone put their hands up. But
34:37
Speaker 3: if they actually realize how much it took for them
34:40
Speaker 3: to earn that $ 10 million, for example, how many of
34:43
Speaker 3: them would still do that? It's the same thing. They won't.
34:47
Speaker 3: And this comes down to, first and foremost, in my opinion,
34:51
Speaker 3: It is the level of the value in their value system.
34:55
Speaker 3: So one exercise I like to do with new clients,
34:58
Speaker 3: for example, once I do get a little bit more
35:02
Speaker 3: comfortable with them and they get comfortable with me, is
35:05
Speaker 3: to actually sit down with them on a personal level
35:07
Speaker 3: and talk to them about this idea of values. And
35:12
Speaker 3: especially if I find that a client is trying hard
35:15
Speaker 3: to make those changes. So they want to make those changes.
35:18
Speaker 3: You tell them those changes. They're going to slowly implement
35:21
Speaker 3: those changes. But what happens is that every single week,
35:25
Speaker 3: there's always a stuff up.
35:27
Speaker 2: Yes.
35:27
Speaker 3: And there is always a reason. And there will always
35:29
Speaker 3: be a reason. And you can see that they're trying,
35:32
Speaker 3: but there's always a reason. And so this is where
35:35
Speaker 3: I've got to sit down with them and I've got
35:36
Speaker 3: to go, look, let's have a chat about this. I
35:39
Speaker 3: know you're trying. I can see that you're trying, and
35:41
Speaker 3: I want to acknowledge that. I want to give you
35:43
Speaker 3: full credit for trying, and I want to be able
35:47
Speaker 3: to support you in doing that. However, every time you try,
35:50
Speaker 3: the harder you try, the more you seem to deviate
35:54
Speaker 3: from it. And I want you to understand why this
35:58
Speaker 3: might be the case because I don't want you to
36:00
Speaker 3: just look at yourself and think that you're a failure.
36:02
Speaker 3: I want you to look at it and let's understand why.
36:05
Speaker 3: Is it because what you're doing is too difficult? Maybe
36:09
Speaker 3: in order to get you doing something, let's make it easier.
36:12
Speaker 3: Let's find an easier solution for it, right? Yeah. Maybe
36:16
Speaker 3: that's one way of doing it. Maybe what's going on
36:19
Speaker 3: as well is– you don't actually understand the why you're
36:24
Speaker 3: actually making this happen. So one thing I would do
36:26
Speaker 3: is this exercise where we try to uncover the value system.
36:31
Speaker 3: So what I'll do is I'll get them to get
36:34
Speaker 3: a piece of paper, a pen, and I'll tell them, okay,
36:37
Speaker 3: in the next 30 seconds, I want you to write
36:40
Speaker 3: down the top six values of your life. A value
36:46
Speaker 3: could be anything that you hold dear to your heart.
36:48
Speaker 3: It could be money. It could be friendship. It could
36:52
Speaker 3: be family. It could be losing weight. It could be health.
36:55
Speaker 3: It could be anything at all. And nothing's off the table.
36:58
Speaker 3: Nothing's bad. Even if money goes at number one, that's perfect.
37:02
Speaker 3: That's fine. I want you to write that down. So
37:04
Speaker 3: I give them 30 seconds. Whatever comes to your mind,
37:06
Speaker 3: write it down immediately. Don't think too much about it.
37:09
Speaker 3: So they'll start writing it down. Then I'll go, okay,
37:12
Speaker 3: at the end of that, you got that? Okay, I
37:13
Speaker 3: don't need to see it. You see it. But at
37:16
Speaker 3: the end of that, what I want you to do
37:17
Speaker 3: is I want you to label them number one to
37:20
Speaker 3: number six. Give me in first priority the one that
37:24
Speaker 3: you think is most important to you to the one
37:27
Speaker 3: that is least important to you. Without thinking what is
37:31
Speaker 3: the most instinctive thing that you're going to do. Okay,
37:34
Speaker 3: now 30 seconds, write it down. So the more they think,
37:37
Speaker 3: the more they try to justify the placing of it.
37:40
Speaker 3: Immediately what comes out. So they start to write things down.
37:43
Speaker 3: Then I'll say, okay, now I want you to stop.
37:45
Speaker 3: And I want you to take a look at exactly
37:47
Speaker 3: what you've written down. And a lot of the times
37:50
Speaker 3: when they look at the list, it jumps out to
37:53
Speaker 3: them because what comes down on the paper, it's not
37:58
Speaker 3: necessarily what they're justifying in their mind.
38:01
Speaker 1: Yes.
38:02
Speaker 3: And so I would get them to look at that
38:03
Speaker 3: and I'll go, okay, well, you realize that you're number one,
38:06
Speaker 3: number two, and number three. None of it is about
38:10
Speaker 3: your current weight loss or your want to lose weight.
38:14
Speaker 3: Number one, two, and three has nothing to do with that. Yes.
38:19
Speaker 3: And so you're telling me you're trying your hardest to
38:21
Speaker 3: lose weight and you're trying your hardest to get your
38:23
Speaker 3: lifestyle healthy and all that kind of stuff. However, that's
38:27
Speaker 3: not even in your top four, five priorities.
38:30
Speaker 1: Yes.
38:32
Speaker 3: How can you expect yourself to do that?
38:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:36
Speaker 2: It's a little bit, you know, it's like who wants
38:38
Speaker 2: the $ 10 million that you asked the question? Well, of course,
38:42
Speaker 2: everyone goes me. But then the real question is who
38:45
Speaker 2: will commit to the work and the pain and the suffering?
38:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:49
Speaker 2: And the demands of doing what is required over time,
38:53
Speaker 2: over time to build that $ 10 million. That's a different,
38:57
Speaker 2: because there's the idea, which is quite zero effort.
39:01
Speaker 1: Oh, I would love that.
39:02
Speaker 3: It's nice to have. Yeah.
39:03
Speaker 1: I would like that.
39:04
Speaker 2: Then there's the real world, practical, messy, uncomfortable reality of
39:09
Speaker 2: doing what's required to achieve that idea. And I think
39:13
Speaker 2: there's part of it also is we love comfort. And
39:19
Speaker 2: change is uncomfortable. So the dichotomy is on the one hand,
39:24
Speaker 2: I want to change. Also, I don't want to be uncomfortable.
39:27
Speaker 2: It's like, well, bro, you have a choice. because the
39:31
Speaker 2: shit that you need to do to get where you
39:34
Speaker 2: tell me you want to go with your body your
39:36
Speaker 2: life your habits your bank balance your career your academic
39:39
Speaker 2: whatever what you need to do at least part of
39:43
Speaker 2: it at least for a while is is going to
39:45
Speaker 2: be somewhere between miserable and slightly uncomfortable and somewhat painful
39:51
Speaker 2: and inconvenient and unfamiliar and uncertain. Are you still in,
39:56
Speaker 2: you know, because there's, you know, this is not a
40:00
Speaker 2: Disney movie. This is, this is, this is effort.
40:03
Speaker 1: This is work.
40:04
Speaker 2: This is, you know, and it's like the idea of
40:08
Speaker 2: it requires no effort, but the practical journey is, It's
40:13
Speaker 2: just a different thing. And it's like, yeah, will you...
40:16
Speaker 2: I often get asked, I don't know if you do,
40:19
Speaker 2: but because I'm a bit older and I'm in reasonable
40:22
Speaker 2: shape and all of that, I often have 50-ish year
40:24
Speaker 2: old guys come up to me when I'm doing a
40:28
Speaker 2: speaking event and they'll say at the end something like,
40:32
Speaker 2: what do you do? Like, tell me, because they're kind
40:35
Speaker 2: of saying, I want to.
40:36
Speaker 1: Do what you do. What do you eat?
40:39
Speaker 2: What do you tell me about your habits, your protocol?
40:42
Speaker 2: They don't use those words, but you know what I'm saying? Like,
40:45
Speaker 2: what the fuck do you do? I'm going to do
40:47
Speaker 2: what you do because I want to look like you.
40:49
Speaker 2: And then I tell them what I do and they
40:51
Speaker 2: kind of say, fuck that, I'm not doing that.
40:54
Speaker 3: Right?
40:56
Speaker 2: Because it's like, oh, I'm not doing that. I go,
41:00
Speaker 2: of course not. And it's not that anyone should be
41:04
Speaker 2: like me or be like Ben. It's not that at all.
41:07
Speaker 2: It's just that everything comes at a price. And if
41:11
Speaker 2: you don't want to pay that price, then either... figure
41:15
Speaker 2: out a way to learn to accept it or change
41:18
Speaker 2: your goals because you can't sit on the couch and
41:22
Speaker 2: build a brilliant body or build a brilliant business or
41:25
Speaker 2: overcome all your stuff, all your bullshit by sitting on
41:28
Speaker 2: the couch complaining about life and what's not happening. Like
41:31
Speaker 2: there needs to be this process that we commit to, which,
41:36
Speaker 2: you know, and we've never been more hardwired for comfort
41:38
Speaker 2: and convenience than 2026.
41:40
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
41:44
Speaker 2: So there's this dichotomy of like, yeah, I want it,
41:47
Speaker 2: but I don't want to do what's required to get it.
41:50
Speaker 3: Yeah.
41:51
Speaker 2: How do you address that with people where it's like,
41:54
Speaker 2: you know, apart from their genetics and their resources and
41:57
Speaker 2: their tools and you cheering them on and educating them,
42:00
Speaker 2: it's just an attitude issue or it's just a mindset issue.
42:04
Speaker 1: How do you approach that?
42:06
Speaker 3: I think for me, it's identifying exactly what they want
42:10
Speaker 3: out of it. Like you can't come to me and say,
42:11
Speaker 3: I want to look like you and I'm going to
42:13
Speaker 3: do what you're doing. Let's not talk about that because firstly,
42:18
Speaker 3: you're not going to look like me. You're not going
42:19
Speaker 3: to do what I'm going to do. I want you
42:21
Speaker 3: to look like what you feel you can look like.
42:25
Speaker 3: What is your best you? Let's talk about that. What
42:28
Speaker 3: is achievable success? with what you want to commit to.
42:31
Speaker 3: So let's talk about your commitment. Let's talk about what
42:35
Speaker 3: are some of the barriers that you are, you know,
42:37
Speaker 3: you're overcoming on a daily basis. Do you, do you
42:39
Speaker 3: have a big social life that you need to adhere
42:42
Speaker 3: to and all that kind of stuff? So I think
42:43
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it's really breaking things
42:46
Speaker 3: down that I need to learn, bring it, bring it
42:50
Speaker 3: back to what I said about NLP just now. Yes.
42:57
Speaker 3: We really need to see decline from their own lens.
43:03
Speaker 3: They're trying to see their new lifestyle from my lens.
43:08
Speaker 3: Let's put that away because my lens is my expectation
43:11
Speaker 3: of them. And my expectation of them is not valid.
43:16
Speaker 3: It's fantasy. It may be nice, but I want to
43:19
Speaker 3: know what can they commit to? What is their social
43:22
Speaker 3: life like? What is their family commitments like? How many
43:27
Speaker 3: days a week can they train? What is their training
43:30
Speaker 3: really like? What is their level of intensity like? How
43:33
Speaker 3: much can they give to nutrition, food? And all that
43:38
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. And then once I understand that, then
43:42
Speaker 3: we can start constructing an end goal to go, okay, well,
43:47
Speaker 3: if all this is being kept in place, this is
43:49
Speaker 3: what happens. But I find that the best way to
43:52
Speaker 3: put in any sort of change for the person, it's
43:55
Speaker 3: identify what is the least amount of change they need
43:59
Speaker 3: to make to create the biggest impact in their journey.
44:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, nice. I like it.
44:06
Speaker 2: Can you give us an example? So someone's listening to this,
44:09
Speaker 2: they go, I'm in. Can you give us an example
44:12
Speaker 2: of what that might look like for someone?
44:15
Speaker 1: Okay.
44:15
Speaker 3: So for example, Sometimes as trainers, we'll tell our clients, okay,
44:19
Speaker 3: we want you to make better choices for lunch, make
44:22
Speaker 3: better choices for dinner, make better choices for snacks. If
44:24
Speaker 3: you're eating snacks, you know, make better choices. And we
44:27
Speaker 3: tell them, oh, don't eat chocolate, don't eat this, don't
44:29
Speaker 3: eat that. It's always a don't eat something, which in
44:32
Speaker 3: their head, every time they think about a speaking, they're
44:35
Speaker 3: going to associate the food rather than the don't. Like
44:38
Speaker 3: when I tell you, Craig, don't think of a pink elephant. Ta-da,
44:42
Speaker 3: you think of a pink elephant, right? Yeah. The lowest
44:45
Speaker 3: hanging fruit for me, for a person like that, would
44:48
Speaker 3: be to try to get them to have some sort
44:51
Speaker 3: of protein for breakfast. Why do I do that? I
44:55
Speaker 3: want to increase the amount of protein that they would
44:58
Speaker 3: have for breakfast because I know if I can do
45:01
Speaker 3: that from a scientific perspective, what actually happens is that
45:07
Speaker 3: they looked at a group of girls that they're split
45:12
Speaker 3: into two groups. So this was a study done on
45:15
Speaker 3: school guilds. Two groups, one was given a high-protein breakfast.
45:19
Speaker 3: One of them was just given a normal high-carb sort
45:22
Speaker 3: of breakfast. Those with the higher-protein breakfast started to make
45:27
Speaker 3: better choices in the foods that they ate through the day.
45:31
Speaker 3: So the snacks that they ate, they chose snacks that
45:34
Speaker 3: were low in sugar and low in fat. They also
45:37
Speaker 3: made better choices for the main meals itself, choosing foods
45:40
Speaker 3: that were higher in protein. Now, very interestingly, the one
45:45
Speaker 3: choice that you make for breakfast, meaning that if you
45:47
Speaker 3: hit higher protein for breakfast, you start to make better
45:51
Speaker 3: decisions throughout the entire day. Now, that is not because
45:55
Speaker 3: someone tells you to do that. That is because instinctively,
45:59
Speaker 3: you're being guided by your hormones. The main hormone here
46:04
Speaker 3: is insulin. So if you're eating foods that are high
46:08
Speaker 3: in sugar to start the day off, you get an
46:10
Speaker 3: insulin spike. With every insulin spike that goes up, you
46:13
Speaker 3: get a crash. When you get a crash, you start
46:16
Speaker 3: looking for a stimulant, something that will give you a buzz,
46:20
Speaker 3: a monster, a V, a coffee, sugar, right? And you
46:24
Speaker 3: look for more sweets. Then it takes you up again
46:28
Speaker 3: and you crash again. And so you're starting to spike insulin.
46:31
Speaker 3: yourself through the entire day by choosing foods that are
46:34
Speaker 3: high in sugar. Now, some people may go, I don't
46:37
Speaker 3: eat foods that are high in sugar, but understand that
46:39
Speaker 3: you're eating white breads with jam, with your skim milk,
46:46
Speaker 3: with your wheat beaks and all that kind of stuff.
46:49
Speaker 3: A lot of it is just going to be a
46:51
Speaker 3: carb bomb. There is no substantial protein in there. What
46:55
Speaker 3: protein does is it stabilizes that blood sugar. It prevents
46:59
Speaker 3: your insulin from spiking. Of course, we're talking about the
47:02
Speaker 3: right proteins. If you're taking a protein bar, that's going
47:05
Speaker 3: to spike your insulin in the same way. We're talking
47:08
Speaker 3: about whole food, whole proteins down here.
47:12
Speaker 1: All right. We've got 10 minutes. I wish we had more.
47:15
Speaker 2: I've actually got another appointment in 11 minutes, which I'm
47:18
Speaker 2: spewing about.
47:21
Speaker 1: Can we do Q & A quickish?
47:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. Anyway, that to me would be the lowest
47:27
Speaker 3: hanging fruit. One thing that I would do to actually
47:30
Speaker 3: get them to make better decisions by themselves without me
47:33
Speaker 3: having to keep reminding them.
47:36
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it.
47:38
Speaker 2: Just before I forget, Australian Strength Performance ASP is in
47:41
Speaker 2: Brunswick East. I want to mention that at the end,
47:45
Speaker 2: but also I just want to plug you and your business.
47:48
Speaker 2: All right, somebody's listening to this, and I know this
47:52
Speaker 2: is very generic, which we don't like generic, so just
47:54
Speaker 2: keep that in mind, everybody. Not a personal prescription. We're
47:59
Speaker 2: just talking generally. Somebody doesn't do strength training at the moment.
48:03
Speaker 2: They're not an athlete. They're 35 plus. They decide they
48:07
Speaker 2: want to get a bit stronger for all the reasons.
48:10
Speaker 2: How many times a week give or take for a
48:12
Speaker 2: beginner and how long should the sessions be?
48:17
Speaker 1: I know you hate these questions. I do too, but
48:20
Speaker 1: just general stuff.
48:22
Speaker 3: I would start a moment twice a week. I need
48:24
Speaker 3: some sort of consistency. Okay. So twice a week, spread
48:27
Speaker 3: through the week, I think is important. Even if it's
48:29
Speaker 3: half an hour, it's not a problem. Full body workout,
48:32
Speaker 3: that's typically what I'll look at.
48:35
Speaker 1: Yep. Okay. Next question. Somebody is a bit older. They're 50,
48:40
Speaker 1: 55 plus. Same question.
48:43
Speaker 2: Might we start them on pin loaded stuff? We don't
48:46
Speaker 2: love pin loaded, but maybe because it's easy to teach,
48:49
Speaker 2: easy to do, easier to stay safe initially, or do
48:53
Speaker 2: we start them on free weights?
48:56
Speaker 3: I would test them first. I would take them through
48:58
Speaker 3: a structural balance assessment. If they can move well, I
49:02
Speaker 3: see no reason why they should start on a pin-loaded machine.
49:06
Speaker 3: I would get them to do exactly what they need
49:08
Speaker 3: to do pre-weights.
49:12
Speaker 1: Cardio. How much, how often, how hard?
49:15
Speaker 2: Again, this is just general thinking out loud, everybody.
49:19
Speaker 1: Don't take it as you're program.
49:22
Speaker 3: If you're talking about general cardio itself, twice a week,
49:26
Speaker 3: 20 to 30 minutes, like I would say a six
49:31
Speaker 3: out of 10 intensity, it's perfect as movement itself. Steps
49:37
Speaker 3: through the day. I think a lot of people underestimate it.
49:40
Speaker 3: That in itself, you don't necessarily call it cardio, but
49:44
Speaker 3: it's movement. And for me, movement is more important than
49:46
Speaker 3: the word cardio because sometimes cardio has just negative connotation
49:50
Speaker 3: to it. I need to stand on a machine or
49:54
Speaker 3: I need to do something. Move. You just need to move.
49:56
Speaker 3: Learn how to move. Don't be stuck where you are.
50:00
Speaker 1: Just a quick one.
50:01
Speaker 3: Okay.
50:02
Speaker 2: Because I've spent a lot of the last six years studying, right,
50:04
Speaker 2: and recording podcasts and coaching people, all the stuff, right?
50:08
Speaker 2: So I've had my ass on a seat way more
50:11
Speaker 2: than I wanted to. But about two and a half
50:14
Speaker 2: years ago, maybe, my phone buzzed one day and I
50:17
Speaker 2: looked and it basically said to me, you don't walk enough.
50:21
Speaker 2: It's like said, your average steps are like four and
50:25
Speaker 2: a half thousand a day or something ridiculous. And I went,
50:30
Speaker 2: that's it from tomorrow. And this was 700 days.
50:34
Speaker 1: Ago or more. I went, well, rock bottom is going
50:36
Speaker 1: to be 10,000.
50:37
Speaker 2: And so the only thing I've changed, and probably every
50:41
Speaker 2: day I would do, I'd say 13 to 15 now.
50:45
Speaker 2: But that was the only thing that I changed. Food's
50:47
Speaker 2: the same.
50:47
Speaker 1: Training's essential. There's no major lifestyle. Don't drink anyway.
50:52
Speaker 2: But I dropped, I was 80, maybe 84 kilos and
50:56
Speaker 2: not fat, but You know, probably 15 or 16 or 17,
51:01
Speaker 2: I don't know, percent fat.
51:04
Speaker 1: And the only thing I changed, I'm now 78.
51:07
Speaker 2: I'm about six kilos lighter. I feel way better. My
51:11
Speaker 2: energy is better. My cognitive function through the day is better.
51:15
Speaker 2: I'm carrying six less kilos, so life is easier.
51:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
51:21
Speaker 2: Just that one little thing, just literally moving my body
51:25
Speaker 2: more and consciously, you know, it's like I walk to
51:28
Speaker 2: the cafe every morning. and it's 500 meters, but I
51:32
Speaker 2: take a 3K loop to get to the 500 meter cafe.
51:36
Speaker 1: So walking is crucial. Caffeine, yes or no?
51:44
Speaker 3: Caffeine, to the person that can break it down from
51:48
Speaker 3: a metabolic perspective, yes. To those that can't because you
51:52
Speaker 3: have a gene that can't effectively break down caffeine, then
51:55
Speaker 3: that is not ideal for you. If your heart rate,
51:57
Speaker 3: if your heart palpitates, for example, when you take caffeine,
52:00
Speaker 3: you can't break it down, then ideally that's probably not
52:03
Speaker 3: your best option. But caffeine as a tool for your pre-workout,
52:07
Speaker 3: as a tool even for longevity, it's shown to have
52:11
Speaker 3: a real positive impact. Absolutely.
52:15
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've got a healthy body. Somebody comes to you,
52:19
Speaker 2: 40-year-old dude, healthy, healthy-ish, no injuries. He's got two hours
52:25
Speaker 2: or he's got two times a week where he can
52:27
Speaker 2: do gym. He can only do five exercises. And again, everyone,
52:32
Speaker 2: this is me just quizzing somebody who's very smart, but
52:35
Speaker 2: he can only do five exercises twice a week for
52:38
Speaker 2: the first six weeks. What are those five exercises?
52:44
Speaker 3: I would get him to do a split squat.
52:48
Speaker 1: Yep.
52:49
Speaker 2: Okay.
52:50
Speaker 3: And this has to be... Ouch.
52:52
Speaker 1: Just ouch everybody.
52:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, ouch.
52:54
Speaker 3: Done properly. It has to be... Ideally, it will be
52:57
Speaker 3: a chin-up, a gripped position that will change all the time.
53:02
Speaker 3: It will be some sort of a press. The angle
53:04
Speaker 3: of the press changes. Yes. I won't say a squat
53:09
Speaker 3: is necessary, so I'll take that out, but some sort
53:11
Speaker 3: of a hip hinge. So whether it's Romanian deadlift, deadlift,
53:14
Speaker 3: a rack pull, something like that. Yep. Yep. And then
53:19
Speaker 3: the last one, I want a rotation movement, some sort
53:22
Speaker 3: of a twist or a throw. Yeah. Love it.
53:26
Speaker 1: Heart, mate, can you come back? We don't have enough time.
53:30
Speaker 1: Can you come back another day?
53:31
Speaker 3: I'd love to. Absolutely. We can delve into the minor
53:35
Speaker 3: details of things. You know, get into a real life situation.
53:40
Speaker 3: you know, example, and then just kind of delve into
53:42
Speaker 3: it and see how I would dissect it or how
53:44
Speaker 3: you would dissect it. I think it would be great.
53:46
Speaker 1: Let's do that.
53:47
Speaker 2: No, I love listening to you. You're a font of
53:49
Speaker 2: information and inspiration. So what I want you to do, everyone,
53:54
Speaker 2: is I'm going to get– Ben's.
53:55
Speaker 1: Going to come back.
53:57
Speaker 2: So go to my– our Facebook page, the U Project
54:00
Speaker 2: Facebook page. If you're not a member, join.
54:04
Speaker 1: It costs nothing.
54:05
Speaker 2: There's no hooks, catches, agendas. We've got quite a few
54:08
Speaker 2: thousand people on there already. If you've got a question
54:11
Speaker 2: for Ben, put that in the group and we'll get
54:14
Speaker 2: him back as soon as he's available, hopefully in the
54:17
Speaker 2: next four weeks, but when he's available. And we will
54:20
Speaker 2: start to answer a few specific questions and we'll start
54:23
Speaker 2: to dive a little bit deeper. Do you like how
54:25
Speaker 2: I'm bloody recruiting you to do this without your permission?
54:28
Speaker 1: Are you okay with this?
54:30
Speaker 3: Ben is fine, mate. I love being able to help
54:34
Speaker 3: and to answer questions. It's no problem.
54:37
Speaker 1: All right, we're going to do it.
54:38
Speaker 2: Now, tell everyone how they can learn about all the
54:41
Speaker 2: things that you do, your education, so the stuff that
54:44
Speaker 2: you do for fitness industry professionals. So do your best.
54:49
Speaker 2: How can people find you and find out about what
54:51
Speaker 2: you do?
54:51
Speaker 3: The best platform to look at what I do is Instagram.
54:55
Speaker 3: So if you're there at Ben Performance Coach, you'll be
54:59
Speaker 3: able to find me. I run an online platform called learn-asp.com.
55:06
Speaker 3: And basically that's where all my courses are, my seminars.
55:10
Speaker 3: I do a lot of short seminars, conference speaking, a
55:14
Speaker 3: lot of courses specifically for trainers, but also individuals that
55:17
Speaker 3: love to learn more about fitness in general, fat loss-specific courses,
55:22
Speaker 3: hypertrophy-specific courses. If you're interested in the science, but also
55:26
Speaker 3: learning how to layer science with compliance, which is that
55:29
Speaker 3: psychology that we're talking about, that's what these courses are
55:32
Speaker 3: all about. So it's about the heart theory, but more
55:34
Speaker 3: than that, it makes it easy for people to understand
55:37
Speaker 3: and how to apply it. It's the application that makes
55:40
Speaker 3: the difference.
55:42
Speaker 1: Perfect. Perfect.
55:44
Speaker 2: Mate, we'll say goodbye for now, but we'll say goodbye
55:46
Speaker 2: off air in a moment. But beautiful debut on TYP.
55:50
Speaker 2: I appreciate you and your knowledge and your energy. And
55:54
Speaker 2: thanks for taking the time.
55:56
Speaker 3: Thank you, mate. I appreciate you. Thanks for that.