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The Woman Everyone Counts On: What Happens When She Wants More? · GlowInto

• Jen: Welcome to the Glow and Tell Podcast, which is part of the Glow and Two podcast where we explore the topics women are talking about right now through honest conversation, personal experiences, and ideas for what comes next. I'm your host, Jen Joyner, editor and creator of Glowin' Two, a publication built for women over 40 through real women's stories and practical perspectives. We explore the experiences shaping our lives and the possibilities ahead. Today we're talking about. The woman everyone counts on. What happens when she wants more? Maybe you're that woman. You're dependable, you get things done, and people turn to you at work and at home. But somewhere along the way, you begin wondering, what do I want? And where is there room for that in the life I've built? Joining me today is Shannon Shores, founder of Bertie Mae Consulting. Shannon brings a background in social work, executive leadership, business development. And business ownership to her work helping owners and leaders find clarity, set priorities, and turn ideas into practical action. She recently made the move into Bertie May full-time. So the question of stepping into your own next chapter is truly timely. Her business is named for her two grandmothers carrying the influence of the woman who shaped her into the work she does today. Shannon is also my coach and a contributing voice in the glow and twos inside the workplace. I've experienced her encouragement and her ability to help me see possibilities while asking the questions that move an idea forward. we'll explore wanting something different, recognizing the strengths we already carry, and making room for ourselves while others still depend on us. The question we'll keep coming back to is when everyone else is counting on me. Am I still counting on myself? Shannon, welcome to the Glow and Tell Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Shannon Shores: Thank you for having me. Jen: So before we get into our conversation, I wanted to share something I listened to recently that helped me put words to some of what I've been noticing into the Glow and Two interviews. So Oprah recently sat down with Simon Sinek for their first conversation together at the Oprah podcast. Simon is the author of Start with Why, and their episode was called The Optimism We All Need Right Now with Simon Sinek. They had a thoughtful conversation about finding purpose, feeling uncertain about what comes next, and recognizing the experiences that connect the different chapters of our lives. Simon also talked about writing a book about friendship and how relationships connect with the work he's done around purpose and leadership. And what stayed with me was how closely those ideas connect to the women I interview. Their careers and personal lives unfold together, and they tell their stories. I often notice strengths and interests that keep showing up, even when the work they do changes. So I'll bring a few of those ideas into our conversation along with the examples from Glow and Two and their experiences. Shannon, I keep meeting women who are the person everyone turns to. They're capable, they handle things, and being dependable becomes part of who they are. Do you recognize that woman in yourself and what has that role looked like in your own life? Shannon Shores: Being someone that people can count on has always been important for me. I was raised by a single mom, and my sister and I are seven years apart. And I am the oldest. In case anyone didn't know that if you see my sister and and myself together, I am the oldest. And even from a very early age, I had to hope with her, you know, being with a single mother, you know, taking her to kindergarten, getting that's up. Getting us ready, making sure we had breakfast, getting us to school, and making sure after school that there was after school chores or homework or things like that. So I think very early on in life, I wanted to be a helper. I wanted to be someone someone could depend on, you know? And having that ability to do that, I felt was important. You know, I love being able to help my mom. I think that transpired into wanting to go into social work. A lot of people don't know this, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: but I have a master's degree in social work. I'm actually the licensed clinical social worker. And that came from this just knowing that I was put on this earth to make the world a better place. One person at a time, one kind act at a time. And I at times though, Jin, I'll have be honest, sometimes I give too much and I've been burnt by that. And I think though, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: so it's taking that God given just I think that heart of wanting to help from being a child through an early adult who I who I am now and learning a thing called boundaries, right? That so I can keep that Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: skill in check because I do love when people say, I know I can ask you, I know I can come to you because I can count on you to be honest. To be fair, to be kind, and those words mean so much to me. Jen: So I can really tell that you do appreciate being that person that people can count on. And it sounds like and I would attest to this too. I am the oldest. I haven't been through the same things that you've been through, but I would say as being the oldest and also being in leadership roles before, you know, it it can be hard to leave room for yourself. You know, do you find it difficult to ask for help when everyone assumes that you can handle everything? Shannon Shores: Well, yeah, it's hard to ask for help. And sometimes it's hard to, I'm gonna say it out loud, give that control. because Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: being that eldest daughter, right? Firstborn, also Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: a Leo, I have a vision of how I want things done. So I'm gonna admit this on your podcast, Jen, that sometimes it's hard because we have an idea about how things should be done Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: and we give it to somebody else. Sometimes it doesn't happen that way. and so it's like looking at that piece of it. but also too, is just I have been so dependent on myself. I'm very independent. So that is something that I have to be conscious of, right? Of what can I do? Jen: Mm. Shannon Shores: What can I what can I delegate? You know, how where can I work with someone on this? You know, I talk with other people about this stuff all the time. You know, coaching's great, right? Like you get to help people get out of their own way and do all those things. But it's kinda like that saying, the cobblers' kids have no shoes. We have to you know, practice what we preach for sure. Jen: So have you ever continued doing something because people needed you to, even after you wanted to do something different? Shannon Shores: yes. Yes. I mean I think that's kind Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: of where I am with, you know, Birdie May Consulting. You know, I was with a company for two and a half years and I was so excited into somebody else's daydream, right? you get validations, you get acclamations, you get the atta girls, right? And that for me means a lot. I love getting that reassurance, right? Because I like, as we talked about, being that person people depend on, also that person who's doing a great job. But I think, especially in this last piece, I had to recognize I was working so hard, but who was I working so hard for? And there had to be that place where I had to stop and consider what do I really want? And sometimes that can get lost because I can get so stuck into Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: digging, building that what I love is that I was aware to look inward and to say, what does Shannon need? And Bertie Mae gave me that platform that I still can help others, but also too, I'm regaining. my time back, what I want, and what I find especially important is that now I'm building my daydream and not someone else's. Jen: You've been the coach. Have you had a coach? Shannon Shores: yes, yes. I had a coach Jen: Uh-huh. Shannon Shores: back probably 2017 to 2020. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: I had I worked with Aaron Joy over in the St. Louis area. I met Aaron Joy, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: I was someone invited me to a kind of an all-day business seminar. And there were some really amazing people who were on the stage that day. Actually, Tamara O'Keefe, who owns Clementines, she was on the stage. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: when I was there and she had just opened her first ice cream shop. So think about that. Like now she's Jen: Okay. Yeah. Shannon Shores: everywhere and you can find her ice cream in the stores. It's just so cool to see how far she came. But that day was so packed full of empowerment and encouragement and energy. And afterwards I went to go up to talk to Erin because I thought, man, if I could have an ounce of what she's serving, my business is going to be unstoppable. Because what she was serving and what she represented was clarity over chaos, building the tribe that you need and getting out of your own way. So I worked with with Erin probably two to three years. during that time, the company that I owned, we doubled revenue year over year. we had a great team. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: We celebrated as a team. Also, the magic in not only having her as a mentor and coach. Is that we had a small group of women that everyone who had her as a mentor, we met also once a month. And the power of those women together to help problem solve, to be there for each other, those friendships, like you talked about at the very beginning, right? As we can Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: help each other, that was really the power. And I think the biggest lesson that's Aaron taught me back then that I still on the daily think about. Is that she said to me, Do you want to be the cat or do you want to be the mouse? And Jen, let Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: me tell you, I want to be the cat. You know, I want Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: to be that person who fights for others, fights for myself, fights for what's right. I'm no longer gonna be a mouse because there were times in my life over the past 48 years that I was the mouse, right? I let someone step on me, over me, speak for me. Tell me not to speak so loud, not to stand so tall. And those are moments or opportunities that I'm not gonna allow myself to get in, and I'm going to help other women step into their power to understand that they can be the cat and not the mouse as well. Jen: After the break, Shannon and I will explore how you can appreciate the life you've built and still recognize that you want something different. We'll talk about feeling stuck, what settling can look like, and how to begin moving forward. We'll also explore the common threads in our stories and what they reveal about our why and making time for ourselves amid the responsibilities we carry. How do we honor the choices that made sense then while giving ourselves permission to choose differently now? Stay with us. Join me on Glow Intel this October. We have a Halloween theme planned with ghosting after forty on the fourteenth, being a witch and setting boundaries on the eighteenth, and the monster in the mirror, aging and the woman you see now on the twenty eighth. I'm choosing two guests per conversation. Everyday women are welcome, no business or brand is required, and the deadlines are approaching, so email Jennifer Joyner at glow and two dot com. Tell me which episode interests you and why. Let's glow and tell. True North Boutique and MedSpa is celebrating its grand opening Saturday, October 24th, in downtown Wood River, Illinois. Founder and owner, Mandy Clark, wanted the day to be about so much more than opening her own doors. True North was built around uplifting women, offering a size-inclusive boutique and med spa services designed to build confidence and help every woman. Feel her best. Mandy is bringing the community together to celebrate and shine a spotlight on other local women known businesses too. The celebration kicks off at 11 a.m. with a ribbon cutting, followed by She Means Business Market, featured women owned businesses, live music, giveaways, food specials, and more. Come celebrate the opening of True North while supporting the incredible women building businesses right here in our community. Welcome back to Glow and Tell. Something I notice when women share their stories on Glow In Two is that a new chapter often carries pieces of everything that came before it. The skills, the interests, the ways we care for people. Sometimes those connections become clearer when we look back. And her glow and two feature, Christine Blankard, the woman behind Blankard's Vintage Market and Fountainhouse and Belleville shared this. I always told my boys, give a hundred percent. Whatever you do. Leave it on the field. That commitment followed her from nursing into business ownership. She brought her experience in teaching, mentoring, and caring for people into the work she chose next. That brings us back to my conversation with Shannon Shores about recognizing what still fits, what we want to change, and how we begin to move forward. so when women tell me about their careers They're also telling me about what was happening at home. Maybe they had young children, they needed insurance, they were caring for a parent. Those decisions made sense in that season, but years later their needs and their interests may have changed. How do you recognize that you want something different when you still appreciate? What you've built. Shannon Shores: Well, I think it's talking about the different eras of your life, right? I mean, people Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: often say, Shannon, I see that you are out and about always doing something. How in the world Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: do you do that? You know, they talk about time. And here's the deal. At the very baseline, we all have the same 24 hours in a day, right? And it's what we prioritize and what we want to put in there. But in different eras in my life. that look different on those fronts. I no longer have small children at home. Yes, I have a 15-year-old son Jen: Mm. Shannon Shores: who's a sophomore in high school and I have a college-age son who's 20. I have a husband, we have two dogs, we have a house, right? And there's so many things there, but I have more freedom. So being able to leave a full-time job and start my personal daydream, I couldn't have done that probably 15 years ago, right? Jen: Mm. Shannon Shores: my networking things I go to or connections with folks or being out and about as much. I couldn't when I had little ones at home. And I think so many women get frustrated because they feel like they don't own their own time. Well, it's because they have, you know, children and they have sporting events and they have all of these things. And I what I don't want women to do is lose themselves in this concept of time. you know, just gosh. I think I don't know where I was. Maybe I was on TV or podcast and we were talking about health. And you know, when I talk about health, Jen, it's so important, especially about women's health. And women often would Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: say, I don't have time to do that. You know, we had that Factor Two event that you were at, Jen, talking about Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: Tams and Fidel's documentary about perimenopause And so many women who talk to me about their hormones, I'd invite them to their event and they'd say, I can't go because little Stevie has baseball practice, right? And I would say Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shannon Shores: back to them, Well, guess what? When you're laying awake tonight, in hot Jen: Ha Shannon Shores: in a hot flash, little Stevie is gonna be sleeping like a baby. That there has to be balance. We can't be everything to everyone. Jessica said earlier, it's like finding that thing called a boundary. Yes, we want to do those Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: things with our kids. Yes, we wanna be a good wife, a good partner, a good friend, a good coworker, a good fill in the blank. But when are we going to be that good thing to us? And I think that is that's definitely the difference. Jen: So how do you help yourself honor choices that you made while giving yourself permission to choose differently now? Shannon Shores: You know, often people think about the choices they've made throughout their life, right? What did you like? What do you regret? what do you feel the most proud of? I often say to people is don't think about anything as regrets, right? These are life Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: opportunities. These are things that we learn from. Because think about something you are really proud of. Well, were you Always in the trajectory for that to be proud, or did something happen? Did you learn from that? Did that have to happen before something great came out of it? So I think it's very easy to focus on what we didn't do right versus what we did do. And I think Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: that if we really stop and say those times were maybe we weren't hitting our goals, or maybe when something bad happened, how did we push through it? What do we learn about ourselves? And I think that just makes us stronger as we move forward. And that's how we give ourselves permission. That's how we s give ourselves grace, is because so oftentimes we're so hard on ourselves. I was just talking with a woman on Friday about where she was in her career and you know, kind of what looks next for her. And she was kind of stuck right in this spot. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: And I said to her, I said, think about it like this. If you were trying on a pair of shoes and they didn't fit, right? They were too small, would you cut off Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: your toes to put those shoes on to make them fit? No. But how often, how many times do women figuratively cut off their toes to make something fit? We have to allow ourselves grace. We have to allow ourselves time. Figure out what we really need and to really use our voice to say what we need and not just settle just to make it work. Jen: Yeah, I agree. I think that I think settling is that's that is a thing that I see probably more prominent in my generation and older more than I do in younger generations, like the millennials, because the settling thing is It's like a a tricky line because in some respects we're settling because we're thinking we're doing the right thing, right? And then in s in the other respect we're settling because we feel like we don't have choice. And I think that's what is so valuable in having a coach for really anything. I mean, we talk about it for business, but boy, they there's there's coach, there's life coaches, right? There's coaches for everything. because I think they help you find that direction. And I think they kind of remind you when you think you're stuck that you're really not, that you probably already know the answer deep down. You're just you we hold on, especially as women, we carry so much, right? We we stack and stack and stack through our lives. We just continuously from the time we're born, we stack responsibility, we stack things that we think we need to do as caregivers. So I think that settling becomes this thing that we do by nature. And not necessarily in a bad way, but just because we we were taught that. And I like I said, I really find that common in my age group and older. I think that the younger, like under 40 group, they're really starting to learn that they're not going to settle anymore. Shannon Shores: Mm-hmm. Jen: I think that that's something we're gonna see a big change with in the next ten to twenty years is is that word settle. Shannon Shores: Yeah. Well, 'cause you don't need a committee to approve your dreams, you know. sometimes you just Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: have to be the first person willing to bet on yourself. And that is sometimes the hardest thing. Hence settling. Jen: Yeah, I had a career coach one time tell me that she basically told me that that's what I did. That that that's what I do in all of my jobs. And she said that I got really good at it because I at some point in in some job along the way, and I don't think I was like this when I was younger, but I think it happened sometime around the 30 mark. She said that I know it happened around the 30 mark. She doesn't know exactly when it happened, but she was just pointing it out. She said that she could see where I had become complacent, right? Shannon Shores: Mm. Jen: So I had come to the point where I I began fighting a little bit less, arguing a little bit less. And I just found it a little easier to go with the flow. And I think that we were kind of taught that too. I I feel like I was taught that. Don't make waves, right? You know, don't don't be the difficult one at your job. And so Shannon Shores: Right. Jen: then it's weird how that starts to translate to the rest of your life. You just kind of wake up one day and you realize you've done it with everything because it's just it's easier and you you you just try to keep the peace. But I think unfortunately. When you do that with your job, you then do it in, like I said, your your actual life too. And it becomes more and more difficult to move forward to the dreams you really want because you've settled. Shannon Shores: Well, I think you're exactly right, is that you have to find the right people to be around you, to push Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: you out of your comfort zone, who allow you to act outside these norms, right? Of you know, be quiet, sit up straight, don't cause waves. Like Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: find your people, find the people who challenge you, champion you, tell you the truth, and are not threatened by your success. I mean, that happens too, right? You start to be successful, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: you start to hit your goals, and then all of a sudden relationships change. And then what that means to you, those relationships were never right to begin with. Jen: After this break, Shannon and I will talk about what listening to women's stories through Glow and Two has taught me and what she would tell her younger self. We'll also explore a question Shannon raises. What if you finally did that thing you've talked about so often that you're starting to annoy yourself by bringing it up again? What if you did the big thing? We often ask what's the worst that could happen, but sometimes we need to ask, what's the best thing that could happen? Have you noticed the purple ribbons tied around town? October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and those ribbons remind us to support survivors, recognize abuse, and help build safer communities. A glow and two, my newest feature, a place to begin again. The work of the Violence Prevention Center explores how this southwestern Illinois organization helps survivors find safety, rebuild stability, and regain control of their lives. Read the full story at glowin'2.com and you can support their work at Ladies Night Out November 5th from 6 to 9 PM at the Bellville Ballroom. Gather your friends for an evening that gives back. Visit vpcswi.org for tickets and information. For support for Call their twenty four hour crisis hotline at six one eight two three five zero eight nine two. You deserve safety, respect, and support. You're not alone. What if feeling better started with looking at the whole you? At Thriving Willow Coaching, Allison Tyndall helps women create healthier, more sustainable lives through a whole person approach to wellness. From navigating midlife changes to building better habits around nutrition, movement, sleep, stress, and everyday life, Allison helps women move away from the all-or-nothing mindset and toward changes they can actually maintain. Because your health isn't just one number, it's your energy. Your strength, your confidence, your habits, and your life. Balance resilience, whole person, health. Discover thriving willow coaching with Alison Tyndall and start building a healthier life that works for the woman you are now. Allison is a glow-in-to- longevity partner. I think that that's what glowing two has brought me is that I'm you know, I've heard over thirty stories now of of women that you know, they they made changes. They they began to not settle, right? Many of them have had these big career shifts and this is what This is really what sparked glow and two for me because I was hearing so much of it. And I was hearing so much of it in women in in my age group, talking about these jumps in careers. and and sometimes they were small things, they were expansions on what they already know how to do, but more often it was larger things. You know, if we use Christine Blanker as an example, she's somebody that had a set career. She was she was a nurse. She she still is a nurse because she still has her license, but she Shannon Shores: Right. Jen: is a nurse and and that was her career field. And she was very dedicated to it. She was very good at it. She didn't stop doing it because she wasn't good at it anymore. She just she fell in love with another purpose. And once the purpose grew, she made the decision to step away from it. But if you look at her story and you look at her life, it's very easy to see the common thread throughout the in from the time that she was serving ice cream as a teenager to to the time that she was helping put together restaurants for hula hands. that that all connects. So I think that, you know, kind of circling back to that settle, we settle because we think because we learned how to do one thing that we have to do it the whole way through. And I think that that's what I've learned through Glow and Too is that these women like Christine, they have they found their purpose sometimes by accident, but by asking more of themselves, what else they wanted. And they learned how to move forward in in interesting ways. I mean, a lot of them were were older when they did it. And I think we're gonna see that change in like I said in the younger, younger women because I think they're learning from us. They're gonna say, well, she talks a lot about how afraid she was when she was younger and she wishes she wouldn't have been so afraid. I think that they're paying attention to us saying that. And I think not everyone is afraid, but I think that they definitely have begun to listen to that inner voice and How to move forward with not being stuck is is the best way that I can explain it. Shannon Shores: Yeah. I think we're change makers and I think we are making Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: change. We are breaking out of the norm. I mean, Jen, think about Glowin Two and all the women that you have interviewed in those stories. Like you said, these women have taken risk, right? They've they've been taking really Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: bold moves to chase their daydream. And, you know, passion, passion is beautiful, right? Having that passion to want to do more. But passion without a plan is just a really enthusiastic daydream. And these women that you've had, they they said, okay, yes, I'm scared. Yes, I'm nervous. Yes, I'm unsure of myself, but they took a risk. They bet on themselves. And there's so many women listening, so many people still out there who should be listening, who have a big idea, who Have a daydream that they want to do next, but they're just not sure. And I hope through these stories Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: that you bring is that it just encourages women to say, what if? What if I did that thing that I've been talking about so often that I'm annoying Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: myself by talking about it again, right? What if? Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: What if I did that big thing? What's the worst that could happen? And taking those bold moves, because if you don't, take a step. You'll never know what the outcome really could have been. Jen: I I always say that i in all of the interviews when I ask the reflection question that if they're standing in front of the younger version of themselves, because I have them start with in the beginning is what is your turning point into adulthood? And then at the end I ask the reflection question of what is it that you would tell that that younger version of yourself. And none of them have regret. They all say very similar things to the respect of to not be afraid. So I find that interesting that they all will basically revert back to that because I think that at that moment they really are visually seeing that younger version of themselves. And they really are asking her. I feel it when they when I ask them this question. And I always tell them that question really was designed for them. It was never designed for the story. And I and I like to ask that question because I want them to walk away after they tell their story and think. Yeah, I would have told her that, but I'm so proud of the woman she became. She had to do the things she did to get where she is now. And so that's why I I love that question because it it's never a question of you should have. It's a question of you learned, right? That's what they that's what they're learning from the answer of the question. Shannon Shores: Yeah. Jen: For yourself, if you were to tell a young Shannon that's just beginning, what would you tell her? Shannon Shores: So I was in the book Living Well with Grit and Anthology Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: by Jim Bardot. And there's probably, I don't know, twenty-five stories in there. And mine is a letter to my younger self. And when I start Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: my chapter, I talk about the book, the monster at the end of this book. It's if you haven't read it, it's the Sesame Street book with Grover. And each turning page, Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: he's so scared because there's a monster at the end of the book. And when I you get to the end, it's just cuddly old Grover. He's the monster and there was nothing to be scared of. But I wrote in the book, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: in my chapter, that I was scared every time with every turning page, even though I read that book a million times, I was always anxious reading that book. But what Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: it showed me though is that with every turning page, sometimes there were real life monsters, right? Sometimes I didn't get cuddly old Grover, that I had to be prepared Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: for those monsters that could be at the end of the book. And what I had to learn along the way was that how do I deal with that? You know, and telling little Shannon is that it's gonna be okay and to find ourselves, to find our confidence, to find our voice. And because here's the thing about thinking about confidence. Confidence is just not walking into Jen: Mm. Shannon Shores: every room without fear. It's walking into the room knowing you have something valuable to contribute, even though your knees are shaking. And little Shannon, yes, she's not the one. People don't believe this when I say it, but Shannon little Shannon Cook was not one that was going to speak up, wasn't going to be loud. probably wouldn't stick up for someone if it was gonna be a physical fight. I only got in one fight. I don't even think it was a fight. It was in fifth grade and someone knocked off my glasses. At the very first, and I gave up because I thought my glasses had broken and I was gonna be in big trouble. definitely I was much a much more of a meek Shannon than I am now. but Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: what I would tell her is that it's okay. We will well find her a voice, and how we're gonna find our voice is that we are gonna meet, and this is my chapter, it's all about really amazing women along the way who taught who We're gonna meet some pretty amazing women along the way who are gonna teach us some great lessons. And I think one of the lessons that I talk about in the book is saying yes to opportunities. You know, now I'm in business and marketing, I can do operations, I can dabble a little bit in finance, perhaps, maybe. but Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: the reason why, and I have a social work degree, I don't have an MBA. People often confuse kind of what my background is, is because My first job out of graduate school, there was a licensed clinical social worker who is the CEO of the company. And I remember asking her, how'd you become CEO of the company? Because I wanted to be a CEO one day. And she said to me, I said yes to every opportunity. And, you know, I adopted that in my early 20s and I still practice that at 48. Hey, when there's a budget, can I, can I watch? Can I learn? Can I try? When it came to marketing, when business development, finance, whatever it is. And so back to little Shannon is that people are going to be in our path for a reason. And they're going to teach us some really amazing things. We're going to have to trust. we're going to learn. But hey, I think little Shannon would be pretty proud of who we turned out to be and who we continue to grow to be every day. Jen: Yeah, when you were talking about, you know, in your reflection, the some of the different things you've done, I mean, that's so important to understanding our why. And I think that's what stayed with me when I was listening to Oprah and Simon talk is that they were talking about how you find your why and he has a book about it and he will talk to women. And he helps, he helps connect those threads, right? So, you know, Oprah calls it her intention because that's just what she called it on her show back in the day, but it's the same concept. It I and I think it probably just keeps getting regurgitated in different ways for us to understand it a little bit better. So I think that when I hear you talk. I think we can hear how you can look across your career and you can find the threads that connect the work you've done. And I think that that is what makes you such a valuable coach because I think it all comes down to you were paying attention, right? You knew how to connect your thread. And I think that that's hard for a lot of people though. And I I think that's probably why they come to Simon, is that they are looking for someone to help. connect their threads and find their why. So is there an example of a woman that you can think of that you have helped basically find her why, helped connect her thread so that she could grow her business? Shannon Shores: I don't think it's one woman, it's every woman that I work with. That is really why I Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: started Bertie May two years ago. I kept talking about wanting to create a platform, a place, a space for women to get out of their own way, their own success. And the original kind of thought was I wanted to work with women, maybe who had gone to college, Had these really great jobs out of school, and then they decided to, you know, after children, stay Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: home, and now they're trying to transition back to the workplace. Because these kind of women kept coming along in my path. And the women would say the same thing. I don't have any skills. I can't do what I once did. People have moved on. They still had five, six, seven years, and here I was at home. What what am I going to contribute? And gosh, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: a stay-at-home mom is the best CEO of a company. She can budget. She can profit. Right. my gosh. Jen: they I know. They contribute so much. That that is the biggest false narrative that floats around is Shannon Shores: Right. Jen: I was just a stay-at-home mom. That would that when they say that because we all know, I mean, I feel like I should I wasn't a stay-at-home mom, but I feel like I should put my homemaking skills on my resume. Shannon Shores: Yeah. But these women I kept coming across and I hear these stories. And as soon as I would hear stay-at-home mom, I'm like, who wouldn't hire you? Because you could multitask, Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: right? You can have 40 bazillion tabs open in your brain, those sort of things. And so I created it out of this idea. I actually called my attorney and said, I need an LLC. And she's like, Okay. And I said, Jen: Ha ha ha. Shannon Shores: I'm gonna have a coaching company. Okay. What are you gonna do you know what you're gonna name it? And people spend thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, right? To brand their company. And I said, hmm, and then, yep, I know Bertie May Consulting. And she said, well, why? And I said, just like your intro said, these were after two of my grandmothers, Bertie, who could not well, she wasn't tall enough to look over the steering wheel when she drive me to bingo. And then Lena May, who was the fashionista who always taught me to dress up, show up and be myself, right? So Bertie Mae Consulting was born, but it came out of just that. It was to help women connect those dots to remind women they have their ruby red slippers on the entire time, but they didn't have they didn't recognize it. They didn't see their power. And through my coaching, it's nothing magical that I that I'm providing. It's not some secret formula that I have that no one else has. What I bring in is I'm a true champion for women. I believe in women. I believe that they can do what they set their mind out to do. I'm gonna challenge them though, because I truly believe that you do the best work when you're uncomfortable. You don't work with me just because you just want to pay me to tell you what you need to hear, because who needs that? You know, yes, it sounds great, but we need Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: to be pushed and challenged because when that happens, It is so great to see women understand their power, their voice, their ability to dream, their ability to make things happen. when they start to make changes, when they start to build their tribe that supports them, and when they start to have those wins and celebrate the small wins. Because sometimes the wins as getting up and applying for that job or getting up and doing that thing. Maybe it's exercising as your goal, whatever it is. But for these women who are working on with me about their business, it's monetizing themselves because sometimes when we ask for money, people start to go into that, you know, that doubt. Am I enough? Will they say yes? Jen: Does your skincare routine stop at your chin? In Style That Evolves, Amanda Swam's latest article, Beyond My Face, giving the rest of my skin a little love. She reminds us that the rest of her skin deserves attention too. You can also read Amanda's The Greatest Bra Struggle After 40 and her experience trying Dollar Tree Skincare Dupes. Head on over to glowin'2.com and explore more from Style That Evolves for the Women We Are Now. Shannon Shores: Well, Jen, if you had to hear no a hundred times before that Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: hundred and one time that was the biggest yes ever, if you knew at 101 you were gonna get the biggest yes ever, you would start asking, get through those no's. And women start Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: to go out strong, but yet will start to water themselves down. And that's what I'm here for is into remind them of their why, remind them of their dots and help them. connect those dots because there's so many amazing women with so many amazing stories out there that haven't been told yet. Jen: Yeah, and and like I always say, and and I stole this of course from someone else, but you know, what's the best thing that could happen? Because we Shannon Shores: Yeah. Jen: are so wired to look for the worst case scenario. Absolutely. Shannon Shores: Yeah. Jen: so that kind of leads me into, you know, your your work with women and and by the way, I don't think I ever asked you, do you only work with women? Do you work with men too? Shannon Shores: when it really comes to my purpose and passion, it's really helping women. but yes, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: I would in the right situation. But when I think about Bertie Mae and I think about what I was put on this earth to do, it truly is to be a champion for women. Jen: when you were talking about how valuable it is to talk to someone about this. And we talked about this the other day. You know, you can use AI as much as you want. And AI is designed to basically agree with you. It's not going to disagree with you that much. So that that's really what it was designed to do, even though it's conversational. It's conversational in in one respect only, and that is to build you up, right? It doesn't, it doesn't have the capacity really to work against you because it wants you to keep coming back. So the thing that we learn with working with a coach. And from talking to our friends and and to our people in our community is we actually learn very valuable tools about ourselves and what we need. And and we had talked about just with glow and two with with trying to increase my Facebook followers and Shannon Shores: Mm-hmm. Jen: also had talked about I've had a a few men that have asked to tell their story, and of course I my immediate reaction was no Glow and II is designed for women and I had was very closed off to it. So I've I had said no. But you had right away questioned that in a way that I would not get from my chat GPT, right? You had questioned why not offer that service, but offered as a separate service that could be provided for them to use their story as they pleased. They could use it for their about section of their webpage, whatever they like. But I didn't have to use it and include it with Glow and Two. And having those conversations opens my mind up. And when we were talking about increasing my followers, I immediately thought about that conversation and thought, why am I not just sending the invite out to my entire friends list? Why am I not sending it out to everyone? Why am I isolating just to women in my age group. Because if I invite men, men have, you know, wives, daughters, sisters, friends that may be interested. And they may see it across their feed and they may say, hey, you know what, there's someone I follow and she might be good for you to tell your story with. So I never thought about it like that until you immediately caught that I could talk to men and tell their story, but not be part of the Glow and Two platform. So I think that that's where I talk about friendship and community being valuable because I think we're definitely in kind of a dangerous age of living behind a screen and thinking that that is enough valuable feedback and enough in our lives that we can get everything we need, right? We can order groceries and we can order from restaurants and we can do everything we want. Right from the comfort of our home without ever leaving or actually really having real true communication with anybody. But I think that it's important to bring up the friendship and community thing. I think that we we kind of reach an age in midlife where if you're fortunate enough, you still have some of your old friends, but a lot of us are reaching new avenues where we're finding ourselves meeting new people again, starting over and maybe not connecting to the friends that we once had. So I think that's an important topic to kind of throw in here when we talk about just basically women and our boundaries, because we often become a little secluded. And I think it's been it's been really easy to become that way with technology. Shannon Shores: Well, I think being secluded, but also too is finding the tribe that fits you now. Because people Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: change. We change. And sometimes Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: the friendships and the relationships we had twenty, thirty, forty years ago may not be what we need now. And it's okay to start to have boundaries, right? so many Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: women I talk with and they'll have people in their lives. And they're toxic, you know. it's they they Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: feel so obligated to someone because they've been a friend for them for 25 or 30 years. And this is the time for us to have those boundaries, have those conversations and be okay with friendships looking different and being more sacred of that time, to figure out who you are now and and what you need. Because I will tell you, I was saying to someone the other day, you know, when we were children. Gosh, girls could be cruel to other girls, but I'm Jen: Mm. Shannon Shores: in my 40s and I'm still seeing it. Women can be just as cruel or even more, right, to women. Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: And so some of those same things that we dealt with in junior high, if we don't watch it, we're still messing with in our 40s and 50s. But we have to have that confidence to recognize who we are, who we aren't, who we're gonna spend our time with, and who we're not going to. Who sucks the the who sucks at our energy, right? Who are those those vampires Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: that we want to keep at bay? and those people that have to be maybe in our circle that we have to work with or things like that. How do we relate to them? How do we give them what we need to get the job done? But we're not sacrificing our mental health or our happiness for that. Because I think that's the thing too, is not only with friendships, it's that figuring out what makes us happy. And being very intentional about, you know, who's around and what do we need and to make sure those relationships that they no longer fit. You know, if those shoes no longer fit, that we get new shoes. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: Right? Get kick those to the goodwill. Jen: So what does it mean to have friends who support your growth as your life changes? What does that mean for you? Shannon Shores: I'll tell you what, it's that's a really good question because a lot of people know me. You know, my husband and I Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: were at an event and he's like, I feel like every woman in this room knows you. You walk in and they're talking about your shoes or your bag or something like that. If you go to my Facebook feed, I have more friends there that I don't even know, you know. I typically Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: say stran strangers are friends who I haven't made yet, but truly though, Jen. is I say friend and that's kind of a broad term. I think my Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: Facebook has made it that way, right? Friends. But for me, I only have a few close friends. And why is that? Is because I know those close friends are truly champions of my life. These are women who root for me in the good times. They root for me in the bad times. They know me and like the good sides. They know sometimes the parts I'm still working on. This is a conversation we can have and there's no judgment there. They're the ones always in my corner. Because there have been a group of women, you know, who have said they were my friends before. But as I got more successful, Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: as I had more accomplishments, there's a lot of judgment, resentment that would happen. very critical of everything that I did. And I too had to start making some really maybe strong exit plans for people in my life. And I've done that Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: over the years. And that's very important for me. And that's why I keep my circ circle actually pretty small because it truly is hard Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: to find people in your life that you know generally are cheering you on. And when you find those folks, Who are not jealous, they truly love you for who you are. The good, the bad, the corny, all the good things and the bad things too Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: sometimes. Those areas of improvement, those are the ones that stick to you. You know, they're the gold in your life. Jen: Yeah, I was just thinking about how, you know, Megan introduced me to you and how that connection then became a part of my own journey. So Shannon Shores: Mm-hmm. Jen: through clone two, I keep seeing women encouraging one another, making introductions, helping you know, helping me take another step, helping someone else take another step. and I think that that's encouraging to know. And I think it's it's changed my perception a little bit. You know, I I definitely am at fault for becoming a little bit more secluded for a lot of different reasons. through perimenopause, through just aging, you know, jobs change, your environment changes. So I think that glow and two for me has brought me a whole nother community of women that I I didn't expect. you know, that I wasn't planning on. But I think that it's definitely helped me find my why. Shannon Shores: Yeah. And I think Jen through glowing too, you've helped reminded women of their why, right? You've helped remind women Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: of their voice and why they're important. I know when you and I have talked, even when you're interviewing these women, at times you'll pull something out of them and start to champion them. You know, that's cool. That's interesting. That's awesome. And they don't see that because for a lot of women it's hard for them to cheer for themselves. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: And I hope you do feel proud about chasing your daydream to create this platform where women can feel heard, seen, and we're really rooting each other on. This is a great place to be. And I'm so proud of you for chasing it and making it come true. Jen: Thank you. I appreciate that. I I am very blessed to be able to say that I have gained, you know, i ev even if they were my friends, we'll just say I've gained 30 new friends for sure and all the stories, but also so many more. I mean, I I think about Megan Grandoni, you know, with Offallon area living and and her not really knowing me that well, you know, to take a chance on this. and to allow me to write for her magazine because you know she came to me with something totally different through my job. And, you know, when I said, I have an idea, she didn't hesitate, you know. So you know, that just says a lot about I think her role in community, you know, that that that really she's such a good connector. I don't think she realizes it, but she's She's such a good connector of people like you are. and and that just makes a huge difference difference for a lot of women. And I think if probably we said it more out loud, there's there's some people like you who are really good at saying it out loud. And I think that a lot of women just don't. And I think that that's why friendship after 40 gets tough, because we do think it, but we kind of revert back. right back to our husbands and our children and our families and we don't say it to people that we're not related to enough. I'm not sure why that is, but I I've noticed that. you know that also kind of leads me into our an our next topic, which was making room for yourself. And I think that having friendships are so important for yourself. Because you need that time and you need that connection outside of your relationship and outside of your job. So if a a woman wants to begin making room for her next chapter while managing all her responsibilities, do you have any advice for her? So she doesn't get so trapped in her own world, which I think is essentially what's happening a lot in midlife, why why the friendships are not. They don't flourish as much as they did when we were younger. Shannon Shores: Yeah. I know when people think that, you know, I'm out that's so busy. Yeah, I have such a busy life is that Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: I like doing new things. I like creating new memories. You know, even with my husband and my children, we go on vacation every summer. It's something I look forward to because those are memories. Those are Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: Things we're gonna laugh about and think about years later. And then, you know, with my friends, it's doing things and, you know, doing witches nights. Like right now we have a witch night right on on Thursday and there's a bunch of women getting together to do Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: that. And yes, we're gonna put on pointy hats and probably have some witches brew, but we need to do the things. We need to be around other people. We Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: need to be in other roles besides just wife or just you know, boss or mom or whatever it is, coach. We need to be friend, but I need to be Shannon. You need to be Jen and find those things that make Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: us happy. So first is it's finding your people and finding the right people. People who really see you for truly who you are. and if it's something that you're chasing, build it. Go for it. Take that risk. And you're gonna feel more comfortable doing that if you have those people, you have that tribe who are gonna say, We're here for you. Good, bad, or the ugly. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: You know, we're here. And don't play small. I see women doing that time and time again. Where am I enough? Yes, you're enough, but no one else can tell you that. Your tribe can tell you that, but you're not going to listen until you feel it yourself. And so what is that going to take? Mental health is important, you know. Get a therapist. If there are recurring Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: kind of themes that keep going off into your head, you know, that maybe you can't do this, you're not good enough, or whatever it is, talk with someone. Let's get past some of those things. Let's identify why they keep coming up and holding you back. And that's okay. No judgment. But we have to do the things because if we don't, time is going to pass us by and we're still gonna be where we are and life's gonna keep going. So. It's time that we keep up with it. Jen: Yes, I agree. And I I think about to a conversation I had an interview I had early on in Glow with Marjorie Moore from H Smart, and that was definitely a common theme in her story was the importance of trying new things. that came up. she likes to travel a lot, and that's an important part of her life, but also what she saw in aging adults and having friendship and community and what it looked like when they didn't. And it's very much a part of our longevity. So I think that, you know, I think it's just important for us to try to remember that the connection is valuable. Like I said before in this day of technology, I think we fall back on that a lot. But having those friendships and and like you said, having the people that support you, and not the toxic ones, because there definitely is a difference between having good community and bad community. I I think that that's so important for our soul. And I I really heard it quite a bit in her story and what she was seeing, like I said, in in aging adults. Shannon Shores: Agreed. Yeah. Jen: So a woman listening may know that she needs something to change without knowing exactly what that change should be. She doesn't have the whole picture yet. What is one thing you would encourage her to do this week? Shannon Shores: I would tell that woman who's been thinking about this, right? And the time is now. And you know what? I'm sure the same woman has wanted to change, been thinking about change week over week over week. Just do it, right? Make a small step. You have to walk before you run, right? You have to take that first step. So I think a lot of women do this thing of not changing because they make it so big Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: and it has to be perfect. And done does not mean perfect. And so break it down. So what I would say to that woman right now is that think about what is that thing you want to do this week. Think it. Write it down. And then whatever it is, what are three small steps you can take to get that thing done? Because the big thing can make it overwhelming. they might not want to do it because it feels like I'm gonna fail at that. I'm not gonna be able to get it done. I don't have time to do that. Well when they break it down to three small things, this week, get a third of it done. Next week, get two thirds. Next week, get the whole thing done. Because what happens, Jen, is that so many women don't get it done because it just feels so overwhelming. And give yourself grace, right? Maybe you try it, you get in the batter's box, and you take a swing and you miss. It's okay. Try again. Just because you finally did it and it didn't work didn't mean it's wrong. And we just might need to pivot, right? Do something different. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: But we just need to do it. Give ourselves permission to try, to practice. You know, if it's working out, for example, don't don't tell yourself this week, I'm gonna work out five times this week when you've worked out zero times. Set yourself Jen: Right. Shannon Shores: a goal for one. Set yourself a goal for walking. Set yourself a goal for, you know. Going to a class, a workout class with a friend, don't go so wide that it's just too hard for us. So make sure that we are being good to ourselves, break things down and celebrate when we do those things because we like to celebrate ourselves too, because we want to accomplish that. So let's not set ourselves up for disaster or failure and start small. That's Jen: Mm-hmm. Shannon Shores: what I would say. Jen: October brings four more stories from four incredible women, each with her own experiences, turning points, and possibilities ahead. We begin with Regina Dawkins, who reminds us: don't be so afraid, be okay with who you are. Then Janine Lang, who stepped into a new chapter as an author. If I can see it, I can be it. Coming up, Marianne Moore shares a perspective worth remembering. I'm not done, not even close to being done. And we'll finish the month with Jamie Petty who says I know that whatever situation I go into, I'm going to be okay because I'm going to figure it out. So discover their stories throughout October at glow and two dot com for real women, real stories, and real wisdom for what's next. What would you want her to remember when she begins doubting herself? Shannon Shores: That she can do it. She's capable of doing it. and give herself permission to fail, that it doesn't have to be perfect. Cause remember we talked about earlier, Jenna, sometimes when things don't go our way, it's not a bad thing. It's something that we may have to learn to do different. It's a lesson there. So we may have to pivot. That's okay. That's what life's about pivoting, figuring out when it doesn't work, you get into an obstacle, you get into a barrier, how do you turn and keep going? So that's what I would say. Keep going. Don't get frustrated. First step first. You got like I said, you gotta walk before you run. Jen: Well, I think that's excellent advice and and I think that, you know, that woman, that listener needs to remember that you don't have to have your whole purpose figured out to recognize Shannon Shores: No. Jen: something that matters now. And I think that again, a lot of women get stuck in the bigger why without asking what about why right now? Right. So I think that I would leave everyone with a a final reflective question that you don't have to answer Shannon. This is just for everyone listening. And that is when everyone else is counting on us, how do we make sure we're still counting on ourselves? And so before we wrap up, Shannon, I want to make sure you tell listeners how they can connect with you and what kinds of conversations you welcome through Birdie May Consulting. Shannon Shores: Well, you always can find me on Facebook. Like I said, I have a lot of friends now who if I see Jen: Ha ha Shannon Shores: at a grocery store and we really never met in person and you know me through my stories and I don't know you, please remind me who you are. But it's funny for Bertie Mae, I did not make a Birdie Mae Facebook page because I really believe my brand, especially through Facebook, is Shannon Shores. you know, reading my posts, seeing what I present, I hope that people feel seen. valued, just encouraged by what I'm bringing and reminders of your health on occasions. So you can find me there. but also too on a business side of it, you can find me on LinkedIn by Shannon Shores or Bertie May Consulting. I do have a I do have a LinkedIn page there. But really where how people use Bertie Mae is I do individual work. I do individual coaching work, working with women to get out of their own way of their own success. And then just recently added on fractional growth work, working with companies to do fractional growth strategy for them. So I'm getting in the boat with them, rolling up my sleeves and being a part of their team fractionally. So it's either for a short time or just part hours. But what I love is that I get to bring my skills of building and dreaming bold moves and just encouraging and championing people on. And so that's how people can find me. So Birdie May Consulting because Beast Mode is in my DNA. Jen: Well, thank you so much for bringing your experience and your perspective to this conversation and for helping us think about what moving forward can look like in everyday life. And for anyone listening, perhaps something today brought a question to the surface. what do you want more room for? What strengths have you carried through your life? And who could you talk with as you begin exploring what comes next? You don't need to have every answer right now. You just need to give yourself a little time to reflect, reach out to someone you trust, and choose one manageable step. And being someone others can count on. That's really important. as well. Your hopes, your interests, your needs, they deserve a place in that life too. You can read more about Shannon and Bertie May Consulting at glowentwood com. where you'll also find stories and perspectives from women navigating their own next chapters. Thank you for spending this time with us on Glow and Tell. If this conversation made you think of a friend, send it her way. It may be something meaningful to talk about. I'm Jen Joyner, editor and creator of Glow and Two, and I'll see you next time on Glow and Tell.