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Dark Romance Enthusiast Katie Bonaccorso x Main Chapter · Main Chapter

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Hello, my book butterflies, and welcome to this next episode of the Made Chapter Podcast.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: My name is Rihanna.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't already, please be sure to like and subscribe so we can continue going and starting our love of books of the entire world.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: I just kept done interviewing my friend Katie, who is in Dark Romance.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: She literally has 8,000 followers on Instagram for her dark romance anymore.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I wanted to do this is I did not interview any dark romance author or really talking about either on YouTube.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: The reason I cannot universally read those books.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I know they are important to do so many people, and there's a huge energy for them.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: So why I cannot give a dark romance author the interview they deserve because I read the book before talking to someone.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to have like a dark romance interview.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: It is a great interview for dark romance for people who just might be curious about the genre.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: We talk about the authors, plot point, intro, Katie's personal journey with dark romance.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Two girls having fun.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: We also talk about contemporary romance as well.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Of course, we do it's main chapter after all.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: And I do want to disclaim that I've lost my computer headphones.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I could not find them before the interview.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you'll hear anything, but if you hear any background noise on my end, I apologize and ask you to please overlook it.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And let's go ahead and roll our conversation.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, Katie, welcome to main chapter.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Everyone, Katie was my former, of course, my former TMZ co-worker.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: We met through a mutual friend, Paige, who was supposed to be here today, but she's sick.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: So get well soon, Paige.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: We miss you.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: And we really bonded over books.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: But Katie and I have quite different tastes when it comes to books.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: She is a hardcore dark romance girly.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: She actually has an Instagram account, Morally Gray Katie, that has, I think, over 7,500 followers, right?
2:09
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, yeah, is dark romance.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: So Katie, if you want to give a little intro to yourself, anything I didn't didn't cover.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: I am mainly, like you said, dark romance, mafia romance.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm also really into classics and I do read like cutesy romance, but my main genre is dark stuff.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, I have my Instagram page, I have my TikTok, which is just KDB1013, but most of my stuff goes on Instagram.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I will link all her socials, add little texts and headers to them so you can follow her, especially if you're already a dark romance reader or you want to get into dark romance.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: One of the main reasons I wanted to have this conversation is actually a few months ago, I like put out a feeler on threads about people who would be interested in getting interviewed.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them were actually dark romance readers or authors, and I felt so bad because I cannot read dark romance.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Like every time I like tried or like read the back of the book, I'm like, oh, this I don't feel comfortable with this.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: And I read every book before I interview an author because I really want to try to give like a thoughtful interview.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: I can't give a dark romance author the interview they deserve, but I'm still curious about the genre.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: So I really wanted to like pick your brain and learn about it.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: For those who don't know what dark romance is, like I know my mom watches this and she's probably watching dark romance.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god so according to Google, dark romance is a subgenre of romance that explores taboo topics, intense power dynamics, and morally ambiguous behaviors or characters and behaviors that are toxic in real life, like stalking, captivity, and extreme violence.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Does that about cover it, Katie?
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think it's a little gratuitous.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Like I think there's a lot more that goes into it, but that's a good like outline of it if you kind of want to scare someone away.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, I like there is, of course, there is all those elements, but there's so much more to the genre and to the book than than that, I guess.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, very nice.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: So we're we're gonna get we're gonna get into it.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: So my first question for you is what got you into like dark romance?
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, take me back to the beginning.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went from a year of just reading classics to discovering romance books in the beginning of last year.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: And then I became friends with you, Paige, and our friend Chantal.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: When I went to the Rip Bodice with Chantal, she dragged me to the like erotic section, which is basically dark romance, and like pulled out a book and said, You have to read this.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: And it was hooked by Emily McIntyre, and I was like pretty scared of it.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And I um I like went home and I was like, okay, I'm gonna put it on my TBR and I'm never gonna actually read it.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: So I just put it on my TBR and I like read the description and I was like, okay.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: And then I like went back to what I was reading, and then all of a sudden I found myself back at the description again, and then I went back to what I was reading, and then I found myself back and I was like, okay, I have to at least try it.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Like it's only like 300 something pages.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: So um, luckily it was free on Kindle.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: So I grabbed it and I read it in under 24 hours.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: I didn't go to sleep that night, and I realized that that was my genre.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: It was very, very quickly, really, really quickly realized that that is exactly what I wanted to read.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's all Chantal's fault.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that it was Chantal who got you into dark romance.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: I thought you guys were just like mutually bonded over your love for dark.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: No, no, she she was scaring me with stuff, and I was like, no, and then I finally did it, and it was amazing.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: I guess I didn't realize that you've only been reading dark romance for about a year.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Like I thought this was like year-long obsession.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I think it started like March of last year.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: And you read so many books, guys.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Katie's my hero when it comes to her reading speech.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: She reads like over a hundred books a year.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: How many did you read last year?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: So last year it was 122, I think.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: This year I'm on track for much less.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm on shark take.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this year I'm on track for it.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, so this this year I'm reading a lot slower, which we can get into why I'm doing that later.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, I I kind of eat eat them very quickly.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm lucky if I get 50 books in a year.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: So that's still that's still insane to me.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about how you like first picked up that book hooked by Emily McIntyre.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: But what actually was the appeal for dark romance for you?
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, what made you realize, oh my gosh, this is my genre?
6:41
SPEAKER_01: I think like a lot of people are like, oh, yearning.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: I love yearning.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't know yearning until you find a dark romance because those men will kill, steal, they'll do anything for you.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: They will burn the world down for you.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's for people who, and I have there's like I have it embroidered.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: There's a just there's like a dedication in the beginning of one of Gabrielle Sam's books that says, to all the girls who gave too much and asked for too little, no wonder you prefer the villain who tells you to be selfish while he burns the world to keep you.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's very much like a genre for women who have never been like really taken care of and like doted on by a man.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Like these men will literally do any.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: They will they will put a GPS tracker in your thumb.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And like it's the most romantic thing you've ever heard of.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: But like in real life, you obviously don't want someone to do that.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, so it's just it's it's the like power that these men have that they're just obsessed with these women.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: See, that's like so terrifying to me.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Like the idea of like a GPS being put in your thumb.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if I would like want to read about that, or like obviously you wouldn't want that to happen in real life.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: So when you're like reading something and you're like, oh, okay, like this definitely wouldn't be okay in real life, but like what makes you hot when you're reading a book like that?
7:59
SPEAKER_01: It's just the extreme that they that they're going through for these women.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, he's not putting a GPS tracker in her to like catch her at her boyfriend's house, he's keeping it because like if the Bratma comes and takes her, like he needs to find you once you're kidnapped by the other people.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's very different than like if a man put a tracker on me now, it's to see like, did I really go out with my friends or am I like seeing someone else?
8:20
SPEAKER_01: So, like, this is all about her safety, and it just has a very different vibe in the books, right?
8:25
SPEAKER_00: So your specialty is like mafia romance and mafia dark romance.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Was this I'm not familiar with Hooked, was Hooked a Mafia Dark Romance?
8:35
SPEAKER_01: It was, it was, and I didn't know it until later when I started reading a lot of mafia, and I was like, actually, hold on, because he is like Hook was like the guy.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Um he runs like all these clubs, and he's like uh a um a businessman and all those things that like when if you if you aren't looking for mafia, it doesn't feel like it.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: But then once you actually because they don't, she doesn't like write it out for you in it.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it's like slightly a mafia book, I guess.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: It's a nice little intro to it.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: I didn't, it literally took me like five months to realize that it was a mafia book.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And so do you like basically of the dark romance, is it is explicitly mafia or do you ever go into like other subgenres of mafia or of dark romance?
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't love a lot of them.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Um like even mafia-wise, there's like certain stuff that it maybe it's more authors that I don't touch.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I'm trying to think of like other types of dark romance because like I can't do stalker and I can't do the absolute worst trope to me is um consensual non-consent, which is basically rape play.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that one, that one I don't love.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I think was like what's like the hardest sometimes for me to get into like dark romance or pick up the dark romance books because they call it like C and C, like C and Click so it's not and it's not it's not that common.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Like I I've read like last year I read like a hundred, let's let's say a hundred of them were probably dark romance.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: I would say two of the books had consensual non-consent.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: And I like I don't read the trigger warnings because to me it like to my people, it's a menu.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Like it's what's coming up, and I don't want to know, like I don't want to know if someone's gonna get pregnant.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully not.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to know, like, there's certain things I don't want to know, so I never know when it's coming.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And when it does, I just kind of get through it, but it puts me off of like the character, the author, like it's just I it's one of the reasons like that mixed with like bully is why I like won't do Rena Kent anymore.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Because it's like a lot of that stuff, like Katie Robert, I love, but she does a lot of consensual non-consent from what I've read so far of hers.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's just not cute to me.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, those kind of tropes.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: So what do you think is like the craziest thing you've like read in a dark romance?
11:02
SPEAKER_01: Um I guess like I'll tell you the one thing that made me DNF a dark romance, and I've never d and like I I don't DNF, like I I go through it.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Um I was reading this book.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: I won't say the author because like she's really nice, but um there was it was stalker, and at the this was my first stalker read, and I like hadn't really like I've done like mafia, mafia stalker is different.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: That's like your I don't know, it's it's a little different.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: This one, it was like a guy who was obsessed with this girl, and he got to the point where he was so obsessed with her that he went on the internet and found a picture of her as a child, printed it out, framed it, and put it on his desk.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: And I DNF'd, I was like, I can't, I can't like that that just brings me into like a whole nother territory that I just am not prepared for.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: So that that's like an absolute that that was a no for me.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was just insane.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: That feels a little icky, and I feel like especially with a lot of times like dark things and they happen in like the office, so I couldn't even like imagine like a thing.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: It's I'm like, yeah, I'm I know too much about the world to be like okay with something like that.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: I guess like I just don't find it cute.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that was probably the craziest thing.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I like never like want to like yuck someone's like yum, because I know like these books are like really important for people, or escapism, or like the author is a way for them to like help with their mental health or get their creative juices out.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: But they're like things I see where I'm like, oh my gosh, like I can't read this.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: I like read the back of the book a few months ago where like the main thing was like using icicles as like inanimate objects and like the scenes and everything.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Like sharp ones too, it was like gory.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I I love I love that you have an outlet for this, but unfortunately, I cannot, I cannot read this.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: It's definitely like a fan, it's more like fantasy reading than like anything because it's again, it's not you never want to actually meet these men.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but in the books, I'm like obsessed with that.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: So are there like tropes that like on the other end where you're like, oh, I'll never get tired of this.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, I want this in every book that I um marriage of convenience, I will never get tired of, especially in Mafia.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Like when the dad drags her up the aisle and says she has to marry him, like, yes, a hundred times, yes.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Um kidnapping, I will never get over.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Just like I just love it.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Kidnapping bodyguard romance.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: I love bodyguard romance.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Um I think those are like the main ones that I I will like eat up every single time.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like definitely bodyguard.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Bodyguard.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: I haven't read a bodyguard romance, but I've like seen like more like cutesy contemporary like romances where like there's the bodyguard probe, it's usually like she's like a pop star or like a celebrity, not like a mafia.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Mafia, it's like her dad's the dawn, and then he puts someone in charge of it, and like it's like that kind of that kind of world.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or like even in the more like I don't know if I wouldn't call it contemporary, but like the twisted series.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't did you I did read the twisted series, or the twisted series considered dark romance?
14:15
SPEAKER_01: No, but the second book is definitely a bodyguard romance, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, oh wait, so that's never in a bodyguard romance, never mind.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: But that and like that was and she was just like rich, I think, right?
14:23
SPEAKER_01: I don't think she was a princess.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, she was a princess, yeah.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: She was a princess.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: So, like, yeah, that I never finished the series.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: I read that one and I was like, this is my favorite one of the series.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't even care about the other ones.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so there's there's some good bodyguard stuff out there, but yeah, I think that those are my favorites.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can also bond with you over marriage of convenience because same thing in like a contemporary romance, like uh cutesy books.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: I do love uh like a fake dating or a marriage of convenience, one of my favorite books ever.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: And people say it's like a Disney adult book, I don't care, is Terms and Conditions.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Um where that's a marriage of convenience to like help him get his will and CEO position.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Is that the third one?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: It's the second one, it's the second one.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I read I think I only read the first one.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: The fine one and I hated it, yeah.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: But I think I would like the other two if I went back.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: The fine, apparently I liked it, but then I loved Terms and Conditions, and I haven't read it in years, and I I still I still talk about it.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: But let's see, I'm thinking about all the other things I wanted to talk about.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: I know specifically with Mafia Romance, you're very into Michelle Marone.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Is that how you say his name?
15:33
SPEAKER_01: It's Michele Marone.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And the only the only reason I'm not me completely butchering that.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: No, everybody does the only reason I know how to pronounce it is because of Chantal, and she's Italian, but it's Michele Marone, and you have to like roll your R's.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, he's the love of my life.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Let's like talk about that obsession because he's in 365 days, correct?
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and so is that where your obsession started with him?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: No, it was that because that's kind of all we have as mafia girls.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: There is no other no other movies or TV shows have been made.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: That is all that we have.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: So that is our only man that we've seen like on screen.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: So that's our mafia man.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, I even made a TikTok that was like it no matter how you describe the main character, like if I'm reading a mafia romance, this is who I see, and like it it popped off because that's all anyone sees.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely just because like we've never been given anything else.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's that's our only man that we have.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you think there are other like books that could be adapted like for screen that could have like the same like response or popularity that 365 days does or did?
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I think there's I think there could be better because like I've watched that movie so many times, so many times, and like it's so bad, but like I love it, but like it's so bad.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, and he's a horrible actor.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: I just love him, but like he he can't act.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: So if they brought an actual like good script in, or like a good book, I don't know of how the books were, I never read them, but if you brought in a better book and like a better actor and all this, I mean you could really make something good.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: There's like a huge audience for it, and I don't know why.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: I think the closest we've gotten is like those those like short, those companies that are making those really short dramas now that are like really bad.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Like it's almost like watching porn, like the acting is so bad, and they've tried to do a few like Cora Riley books, which are mafia romance, and it's just like they they did so well the first episode, like everyone watched it except for I couldn't do it, and then no one watched it the rest of it because it was so bad.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: So it's like if you put the right team behind it, you could make something good.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: So I was like a mafia romance expert.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, what book do you think should have its time on the screen?
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Um I think oh, that's good.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: I think the best series, and it's only a four-part series, so it'd only have to be like four, is the um JT Geisinger's.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm saying her last name right, but her mafia series, it's so good.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: And like the first book is like fine, but the man in the second book and the man in the third book and the man in the fourth book, they are all so good.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: And like all the characters are so well developed and so like over the top, um, like fun and sexy.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think that would be the best.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think she has like a huge fan base.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: She, I don't know if you've heard of pen pal, but she wrote that and like got a huge it's you all you wouldn't want to read that one.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: But it's like I don't know.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: He like, I think it's like a prison pen pale.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: So I haven't read it, but yeah, it's like a prison pen pale romance.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: But she so she has a huge following.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, prison pen pals are more common than people think.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So that's really our incredibly there.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: You know how many times I've gotten so close.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Like Instagram will like Instagram like gives me like it's suggested stuff, is like men in prison being like, I need a pen, and they're so hot, and I'm like, oh, but I can't do it.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Please don't, please don't.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: The only person I've written to is Luigi, writing to no one else.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Luigi.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Luigi.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: All right.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: So I do want to talk about contemporary romance, but before we transition to that part, I do want to ask, just because I'm curious, like I've read like some pretty erotic authors like Anna Huang and uh like for the twisted series and then terms and conditions has like a lot of spicy scenes.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, what is like the smut like in these mafia romances?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Are they like more extreme than like other contemporary romances?
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, although I get really surprised when I read a contemporary romance that is like as dirty because I always think that they're the that they're the the dirtiest, but then I'll read something like I read um not that kind of proposal, which comes out soon, and that it's like contemporary romance and it is filthy.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but like but in the mafia books, it's like the descriptions are insane.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I think one of the first pages in Hooked was like this hook threatening to like take the virginity of this guy's daughter on top of his bloody corpse.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Like it's shit like that.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: That's like, and like it doesn't happen, but it's like it's like how they threaten and stuff like that.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's like pretty filthy, and like there are there's a lot of knife play, there's a lot of gun play.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's anything can go up there.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: So you never know what's you never know.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, my mouth will open that whole time.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like those scenes and those tropes, kinks, if you call them, are like a lot of the reasons why people like will immediately write out or like not want to entertain dark romance.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: But as someone who's kind of like in it, you have like a pretty like good following with it.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is the most like misunderstood thing about the genre?
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's kind of how I think it's the description that you gave in the beginning is like like, yeah, that's what it is, you know, it's this dark, violent, erotic, whatever.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: But there's like, like I said, there's just so much more to it, and there's so much like romance in it that you would have never thought.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I just think it's like mischaracterized as just something that's just dark and odd.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I have one friend who is she's like kind of wants to try it, but she's a little scared.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: And like we both read Alchemized, and like Alchemized is like it's it's a different type of violent, but it's so violent because it's war.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's like if you can go through that, then you should be able to go through like a guy killing like the shitty dad of this girl that he's in love with.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: There's just so to me, it's like I think everybody should just at least try.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: It but if it's not your type, then it's not your thing.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: But that's fair.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: So for anyone who's like listening or watching and is like maybe curious about getting into these dark romances, do you have any like beginner-friendly?
22:14
SPEAKER_00: I remember the last time I asked you for a beginner-friendly dark romance.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Like the back of the book talked about like the guy choking his cousin out and like killing him.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's that is tame.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: That is um, I think, and back when you asked me, I hadn't read a lot more, although I still don't, I still can't think of anything to recommend for you.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: But because like there's gonna choking is like nothing.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: But um, my absolute favorite series is Gabrielle Sands books.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: There's like four of them.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, it starts with uh let's see, I have starts with where is it, where is it, where is it?
22:54
SPEAKER_01: When she unravels, and then there's like a few more, but those are those are everyone's read them.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: They're really easy reads.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: She tells a good story, but they are violent.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I think those are a good place to start, probably.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I know you've been experimenting yourself a little bit with your readings.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: You just did your first alien romance.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: How is that?
23:18
SPEAKER_01: That was a wild ride.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, so every it's kind of like a a rite of passage for readers, especially dark romance readers, I think.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: And um, it's the Ice Planet Barbarian store series.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: And Chantal told me to read it, and then it's kind of just like hooked where like every once in a while I'd go back and I'd read about it, and I'd be like, okay, maybe.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And like on Instagram, I put it on my like TBR, my like monthly TBR for like the past few months, and I finally did it.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: It's like under 200 pages.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: It's wild.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm so attracted to these giant blue men with tails, and it's like, why like why?
23:56
SPEAKER_01: But it's so it's so weird, and like you'll forget about the tail, and like the rest, like the horns are kind of fine, and like the rest of them is like pretty human, like, but the tail kind of throws me every single time, and like they're built so like so like romance readery, where like they have like their junk is built a specific way where it's like a rabbit vibrator, like it has an extra part to it, so it's like it's just so insane that I'm like, and they speak like a different language, and like what when he like oh, I can't even, I don't want to like get into any spoilers, but they're just like these insanely sexual alien beings, and they're so good.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm on the second book right now.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: So I read the first book all day yesterday, and now I'm on the second one.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that's another thing where I kept being like, I'll never do it, I'll never do it, I'll never do it.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: And then one day I was like, this year, I'm I'm really like I'm back in the fluffy romance.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to like trying my hand at different things.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, this is the time to do it.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's great.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy you found another thing to feel like that's another thing that's gonna be a little bit of a pass for me.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, never for now pass.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: I feel like, especially on threads, I've seen so many different types of like romances that I didn't even know were a thing.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, I knew about alien romance.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: I actually learned about shifter fiction romance.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: The author had talked about how she has a book where the guys turn into cheese during the day.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there's like a there's like a produce one, there's like a vegetable one.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think I'll cover it also has an eggplant one, and I'm like, they're cheese.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they're men and night.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: No, I'll never be able to get, I don't think I could ever get into that.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Unless there's like an if there's one if if there's one that's like everyone needs to read this, it's so good you'll you don't even remember that they're cheese.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: But like I don't think I've ever seen one of those where people are like, this is so good, you have to just put everything aside.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: Like I can't, I can't put it aside.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's gonna be a no for me for now.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: For now, for now, like never, never say never, never say never, especially when it comes to books.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like we kind of have exhausted the dark romance topics, but with our time left, we do, I do want to talk about contemporary because you said you've been reading some of the fluffy romances, and that's that is my specialty.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: I do love fluffy romances, and I just want to talk also about like reading as a whole.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, I know you've told me like reading has like helped you through some like super hard times.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like your number one hobby.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: What does what does reading mean to you?
26:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh to me, it's a form of escapism.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And kind of like I said at the beginning of the episode, I've been reading a lot less this year, and it's because last year I was in a like eight-month depressive episode, and I kept telling my therapists, like, I think I'm reading too much.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm reading too much, it's all I'm doing.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: All I'm doing is reading.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And everyone was like, no, it's a great way to escape.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: But I think like 122 books was insane.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Like it, it was that's how much I wanted to be not in my life.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Like how badly I needed to like escape into another one.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: And it's so it's a really great outlet for that.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: But I do think that like this year, even though I'm feeling better, there's still like ups and downs, and it's more important to like feel it and kind of go through it than like be on the like ice planet banging an alien.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: So, like, uh, so yeah, to me, it it it's a form of escapism, but it's kind of a slippery slope if you get like addicted to it.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, it almost felt like it was like a drug at that point.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: So, so yeah, this year we're taking it easy.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: But it's good that you have that balance and it's fun that you have different genres to kind of explore and escape to.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: I get what you mean about like the mental health.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I use reading as escapism, and I also read like a lot more books depending on like what stage I am in my life.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: So, like the times that I'm like unemployed or like in between jobs, like my health takes up so much.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: I think not only is it because of the time, but I just need like to my brain to escape from that, like, oh my gosh, like what am I doing with my life kind of thing?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm unemployed and I started a book podcast, so that shows you where I am.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Might as well, might as well.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I know that uh you just did the first time caller series, and you are so obsessed with those characters.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: I was when you are choosing like a contemporary romance, like you're coming out of like your mafia romance bubble.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, what makes you pick up a contemporary romance book?
28:30
SPEAKER_00: What draws you to it?
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, why did I choose that?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: I think I I finally like went back to Libby because all mafia romances on KU.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: So like I wasn't on Libby for like a whole year.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: So I went back on Libby and I started just like reserving popular books.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to kind of get back in with something that like I know is enough people liked it that it's gotta hit.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: So then the second one came out and I saw how well it was doing.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, so when First Time Color got available, I read it immediately.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: And it was just so I don't know if it's actually as amazing as I thought it was, or if it's just like because I haven't had that breath of fresh air in so long that it just like was so nice to have in that moment.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's another one of those books where it's like most of the book is not filthy, but when it gets filthy, it's like filthy.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: So that like so I was like, oh, this is right.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: My alley.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, and even the second book is like it took forever, but like it got really, really dirty.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I I was obsessed with those books.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for the third.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: But I think I mostly look for what if I want to make sure I'm I'm getting a five-star read, I have to see what like everybody loves.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: And it won't always hit, but like that one hit.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I read First Time Collar over to summer last year.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: It was like my summer read balls in Europe, and I loved it.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I don't love like excessive smut, I like shorter bouts of it that are like well done, and I feel like that's like a very good like proportion of like plot to like a good smut scene, and then I can like keep going um with life.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: So I really, really enjoy that book.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: I also read In Back to You, but I feel like I wasn't in a good mental state when reading In Back to You because it was like like during and like right after like my accident, which happened in like the snow.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: And you're like in the freaking snow like the whole time, and I'm like, I can't do this.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: But I'm not a good one.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't like pause and I don't DNF books, so I just kind of like powered through it, and then I was like, everyone loves this book, but I really struggled through it.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm probably the problem here, but I definitely liked the first one better, and I'm still like gonna read the series, but I wish I had like that like euphoric high that you and Paige were like talking about when doing um now back to you.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I know.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think like the between the first and the second, too, like on first time caller, it's more I wouldn't say realistic, but it is more realistic than like a snowstorm and then they're going to a random cabin.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just it it was like so forced, but I loved it, but it was forced.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: So I think there's that too, which made first time caller a lot better.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: That's true, that's true.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: So when you are there like any tropes that you like love specifically in contemporary romance?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Because I love call it cliche.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I love like a good C CEO, workaholic, like guy who has like lots of money, like trope character who's like usually a little grumpy, but are there like things that you look for besides that like, oh, it just has like all five-star reads?
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually hate billionaire romance, which is weird because I love mafia romances.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: I know, but it's different because like they're like badass and they're killing people, but like these guys are just like in suits and have a ton of money and they're kind of just assholes.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: So like I don't know.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And like I don't, I'm very much like non-capitalism.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't, I don't need a lot of money, I don't need to be with a man with a lot of money.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: So like to me, it doesn't really I don't know, it just doesn't like feel and I don't really love grumpy sunshine either.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: But I do what I I'll talk about what I do love.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: I do love um, I love enemies to lovers, I love friends to lovers, I like um marriage of convenience, I love fake dating.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: I think those are probably like the best ones for me, but like enemies to lovers is always the best.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like enemies to lovers.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Fake dating's my favorite trope.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's why is good the millionaire tropes sometimes, because it's like they usually have to fake date someone for like their image or work event.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think that like attracts me to them as well.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: But that's so interesting.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: I find that so funny.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: You're like, it's okay if they have money through killing people, but capital are killed.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: That's where I draw the line.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, and a lot of the times with the mafia men, they don't like they don't it sounds so I feel like I'm so stupid because in real life they flaunt their money, but like I feel like they don't really flaunt their money in the books that much because they're so focused on like doing other things.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't know, but it never comes across to me the same as like billionaire for some reason.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I also love like best friend's brother and brother's best friend.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: I love those, and like I love like Carly Fortune books, like those are like that to me is like Chef's Kiss.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is about it, but I love her books.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I she like on my TBR because does she have like an adaptation coming out to she does and I'm prime and I'm scared.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't like adaptations of things that I've read, so we'll see.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's my hot take too.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: I really struggle with it, but they usually have to win me over.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: If we had more time, I would definitely talk about adaptations.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll do a part two website so we can break down adaptations, especially because I think this is a good adaptation.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: I think she reads a lot of things that are adapted for filament that's TV.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: And I do as well, but she's always like more enthusiastic about it than I am.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: But those were all my questions, or all the questions we have time for.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: I had so much fun talking about dark romance before we say goodbye to everyone.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that you want readers to know about yourself or listeners to know about yourself or dark romance?
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm obviously gonna include your social channels, but I don't think so.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: I think we hit pretty much everything.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's it.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, this was so fun.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: This is fun.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Be sure to follow Katie on Instagram and TikTok and keep up with what she is reading from alien romance to dark mafia romance to contemporary romance, is quite the variety next week.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm going back to author interviews.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm interviewing Alexa Martin.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Her new book, I the beauty chat.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm obsessed with this cover.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: I think it's so beautiful.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's also exciting for me because it's my first time really reading a cowboy romance.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: So we are gonna dive into it, talk about the characters, talk about the representation, talk about the inspiration.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: I hope you come back for it, and I hope you have a great week my book butterflies.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time.