Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Wife of Accused Gilgo Beach Killer 'DIVORCE'

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Wife of Accused Gilgo Beach Killer 'DIVORCE' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.
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Speaker 2: Dvorce.
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Speaker 3: It's not just country music hit the Lejah Long Island
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Speaker 3: serial killer's wife seeks a divorce in the last hours.
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Speaker 2: That says a lot.
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Speaker 3: Not only that, we learned that authorities are now seeking
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Speaker 3: out hookers sex workers to find out if any of
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Speaker 3: them can provide insight into fifty nine year old Rex
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Speaker 3: Huerman as the search goes on regarding his Las Vegas
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Speaker 3: pleasure pit and his South Carolina compound that borders on
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Speaker 3: his brother's property where coincidentally, guess was there a Chevy Avalanche.
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Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being
1:03
Speaker 3: with us here at Fox Nation. In series Sex sem
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Speaker 3: one eleven, take a listen to our friends at Picks.
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Speaker 4: The wife of suspected gilg Beach serial killer Rex Huerman,
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Speaker 4: has officially filed for divorce, and tonight we are hearing
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Speaker 4: from her sister for the first time, less than a
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Speaker 4: week after her husband's arrest. Assa Ellerup filing for divorce
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Speaker 4: from Rex Hureman Wednesday in Suffolk County Supreme Court. Online
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Speaker 4: filings list the divorce as uncontested. Asa Ellerup's sister, Johanna,
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Speaker 4: speaking briefly from the front door of her Long Island home,
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Speaker 4: saying she's unaware of details.
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Speaker 2: We don't know anything.
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Speaker 5: We're hearing about most of it on the news ourselves.
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Speaker 3: I'm confused. How I'm not saying I don't believe it.
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Speaker 3: I do believe it, but I'm still confused. How can
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Speaker 3: a guy allegedly murder women for years and years and
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Speaker 3: believe you me, They're gonna be more dead bodies whether
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Speaker 3: we find them or not. That's the kicker in Vegas,
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Speaker 3: in South Carolina, in the Tri state area near Long Island.
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Speaker 2: How did she not know something was off?
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Speaker 3: I mean, my husband has a padlocked room downstairs in
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Speaker 3: the basement. Uh uh in oh if he goes to
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Speaker 3: Vegas without me and the children, over and over, no, no, no,
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Speaker 3: for is gonna fly?
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Speaker 2: How is this happening? But Cheryl McCollum joining me, found
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Speaker 2: a director of.
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Speaker 3: The Cold Case Research Institute, forensic expert, and star off
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Speaker 3: a hit series Zone Seven, Cheryl Truth. It happens all
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Speaker 3: the time. I have asked women you didn't think anything
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Speaker 3: was weird? They go, no, I didn't know a thing.
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Speaker 3: That's you know, maybe they've got on blind or Cheryl,
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Speaker 3: maybe they don't want to know. I mean, think about it,
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Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum. A lot of people, and not just women,
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Speaker 3: men too, they don't want to see the signs their
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Speaker 3: spouse is having an affair. I mean, you know what
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Speaker 3: if I find lipstick on David Lynch's callar, I'm telling
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Speaker 3: you all, agal going to break least right now.
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Speaker 2: So I mean, how does it happen? Cheryl? Let me
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Speaker 2: tell you this.
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Speaker 6: She sure got from I just got news my husband's
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Speaker 6: been arrested as a serial killer to divorce pretty quick.
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Speaker 6: So it sounds like to me she processed that information
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Speaker 6: as fast as anybody I've ever seen.
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Speaker 5: She ain't standing bind. She's getting rid of him as
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Speaker 5: quick as she could, So on some level she's accepted
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Speaker 5: it so fast. I believe she now knows the odd
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Speaker 5: things were clues the whole time.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, You may be right, guys, we
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Speaker 3: have an all star panel to make sense of what
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Speaker 3: we know right now. But I hear Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert,
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Speaker 3: throwing a little psycho.
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Speaker 2: I would say, bibel.
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Speaker 3: But I actually think you're right that wife processed the
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Speaker 3: information pretty quickly and immediately file for divorce and you
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Speaker 3: hear her sister, which would be Huerman, the alleged serial
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Speaker 3: killer sister in law, saying, we're getting our information from
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Speaker 3: the news, just like everybody else.
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Speaker 2: So they're hearing it from the news.
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Speaker 3: They don't have any special knowledge, and based on what
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Speaker 3: they're hearing, she files for a divorce again, all.
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Speaker 2: Start panel with me.
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Speaker 3: Let me go straight out to Kristin Thorne, investigative reporter
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Speaker 3: WABC Channel seven Eyewitness News, and she's a star off
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Speaker 3: Hulu's true crime show Missing Kristin. It's great to have
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Speaker 3: you with us. We've been to Gilgo Beach. We've looked
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Speaker 3: at that remote area. I can only imagine what it's
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Speaker 3: light late at night when nobody is around. Plenty of
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Speaker 3: places to hide a dead body. But my theory is
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Speaker 3: Kristin that is that once you have the bodies being
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Speaker 3: unearthed and found, he just goes to another dump site.
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Speaker 2: Whereas that don't know yet.
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Speaker 3: But that said, what can you tell me about miss
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Speaker 3: Ellerup filing for divorce?
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Speaker 7: Well, look, I don't think it's entirely surprising. Although here's
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Speaker 7: the thing, Nancy, to your point, I interviewed yesterday a
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Speaker 7: sex worker currently in New York City, she works in
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Speaker 7: this area. She's a what she would consider a high
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Speaker 7: level escort, and she said, these women know when this
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Speaker 7: is happening. She can tell you firsthand that women had
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Speaker 7: suspicions when the men start getting involved with sex workers
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Speaker 7: and escorts and prostitutes. And so she is very suspicious
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Speaker 7: of whether the wife knew anything that was going on.
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Speaker 7: We don't have any proof of that, but she has
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Speaker 7: first hand knowledge. This is what she does for her
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Speaker 7: line of work. And so she said the fact that
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Speaker 7: the wife would have been completely floored that he was
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Speaker 7: at least least using either having affairs or using escorts
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Speaker 7: or prostitutes was probably not entirely surprising to her. I
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Speaker 7: thought that was a really interesting perspective.
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Speaker 2: Guys.
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Speaker 3: In the last hours, we learn that Rex Huerman, the
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Speaker 3: alleged Long Island serial killer's wife, files for divorce.
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Speaker 2: Bernard A.
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Speaker 3: Villa and I have a high profile criminal defense attorney,
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Speaker 3: former prosecutor outam New York, and you can find her
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Speaker 3: at Villa Loona Law dot com.
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Speaker 2: Bernanda, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 3: You know, every time I've tried a defendant for murder
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Speaker 3: or a group of defendants for murder, I can guarantee
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Speaker 3: you one thing. One person will be sitting behind the
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Speaker 3: defendant at trial, and it's his mother. It's not his wife,
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Speaker 3: it's not his girlfriend. They're long gone. It's his mother.
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Speaker 3: The mother is the last.
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Speaker 2: One to go.
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Speaker 3: But you know, very often you see wives hanging on
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Speaker 3: till the bitter end, refusing to believe what the evidence
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Speaker 3: is showing them. I think that it is. Of course,
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Speaker 3: I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD like doctor
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Speaker 3: Sherry Schwartz who's about to join us. But I think
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Speaker 3: that it disrupts basically the fabric of their universe. They
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Speaker 3: can't believe, well, this happened, my husband did this, because
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Speaker 3: they've invested their whole lives and a whole nother scenario.
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Speaker 8: Exactly man sears. You can see in this case till
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Speaker 8: death dualist part does not apply. So the wife of
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Speaker 8: this man, obviously she saw the evidence. But when she
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Speaker 8: saw the evidence, aside from maybe she doesn't believe, ohday,
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Speaker 8: he killed these women. But the Internet searches, the Google
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Speaker 8: searches that I think, in of itself was a rude
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Speaker 8: awakening because that's something that he could not walk away from.
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Speaker 8: So I think that right there was probably enough for
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Speaker 8: her to say, I want up from this. You are
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Speaker 8: sick in the head. You're talking about we're talking about
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Speaker 8: Schurch just having to deal with sex and kids and
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Speaker 8: processes and statistic behavior. I think that would do it
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Speaker 8: right there. But also remember that this is a case
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Speaker 8: that is different because the wife is cooperating and the
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Speaker 8: wife is going to be a key witness. Why Nancy
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Speaker 8: not a high witness? But she has to testify at
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Speaker 8: trial one to explain that she was not in the
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Speaker 8: country or not in the state when these three women
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Speaker 8: were killed, because remember her hair was found on the
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Speaker 8: body of the burlo or the item that was used
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Speaker 8: to tie up these women, so they have to explain
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Speaker 8: that away. Also, she's going to have to explain like
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Speaker 8: the different behaviors of her ex or her husband or
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Speaker 8: ex husband at the time of trial. So we're in
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Speaker 8: for a rude awakening when she could thus come forward
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Speaker 8: at the time of trial. But as of now, she
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Speaker 8: cut her losses very early on. She has the family
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Speaker 8: to protect, which is her kids were not as.
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Speaker 3: HI agree with everything you just said, but you know
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Speaker 3: what it is, so fast and furious is like drinking
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Speaker 3: from the fire hydiant. Okay, just slow it down for
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Speaker 3: us regular people, and tell me that again one more time.
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Speaker 3: I think somebody's hit the coffee a little too much
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Speaker 3: this morning. Okay, it's not us, Jackie. Okay, Bernanda, everything
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Speaker 3: you said was spot on. Could you please slow it
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Speaker 3: down for us all because we all want to jump in.
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Speaker 2: Go ahead, okay.
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Speaker 8: So in dealing with the divorce itself, it's going to
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Speaker 8: be an uncontested divorce. What does that mean in New York?
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Speaker 8: It means that this man, who are man? He's not
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Speaker 8: going to fight the divorce.
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Speaker 2: I guess not.
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Speaker 3: He's facing right now three counts of murder and three
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Speaker 3: counts of felony murder.
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Speaker 2: He's got his hands full on the legal front.
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Speaker 8: You will be surprised how men will hold on to
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Speaker 8: the bitter end. But he's not going to fight it.
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Speaker 8: So that divorce should go through roughly in about six months.
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Speaker 8: So that's that forgive me right there. So in terms
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Speaker 8: of the wife itself, so the wife, even though she's
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Speaker 8: getting divorced, she's still going to be a key witness
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Speaker 8: a trull. Why do I say that she's got an
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Speaker 8: eyewitness to the killing of these women? But remember a
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Speaker 8: crucial piece of evidence is to hear that was found
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Speaker 8: on three of the bodies, either two or three of
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Speaker 8: the bodies of these women.
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Speaker 2: Hold on right there.
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Speaker 3: That brings me to a really interesting point, and that
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Speaker 3: is husband wife privilege. You are so right, Bernanda Villalona,
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Speaker 3: that she will be called as a witness to explain
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Speaker 3: why her hair or really that she had no knowledge
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Speaker 3: of the murders, because her hair is on three of
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Speaker 3: the victims that we know of right now. And I
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Speaker 3: know Cheryl McColl is going to jump all over this,
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Speaker 3: but I believe there's going to be cat hair associated
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Speaker 3: back to the defendant because we saw its detectives taking
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Speaker 3: out a cat's scratching post from the home. If any
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Speaker 3: of you have a cat, or you know a cat lover,
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Speaker 3: you cannot leave your home without being covered in cat
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Speaker 3: for no matter how far away stay from the cat,
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Speaker 3: no matter how much you don't let the cat.
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Speaker 2: Crawl all over you, you're gonna be covered.
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Speaker 3: So I think she's going to have to explain a
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Speaker 3: way that she knew nothing about this. But also he
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Speaker 3: is the one to invote the attorney client privilege, not her,
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Speaker 3: so any communications between them he can stop from coming in,
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Speaker 3: but she can testify to.
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Speaker 2: Act acts things he did.
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Speaker 3: And I want to remind everybody of another serial killer,
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Speaker 3: don't hear about that much.
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Speaker 2: His name was Jerry Brudos.
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Speaker 3: His wife, Darcy Brutos, was married to him about a decade,
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Speaker 3: but she quote never noticed the trophies he brought home
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Speaker 3: from killing sprees, including body parts that he stashed in
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Speaker 3: the garage. But similar to the current case, Brutos forbade
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Speaker 3: his wife Darcy from ever going into the attic or
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Speaker 3: the garage. I can guarantee this woman never went in
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Speaker 3: that secret room down in the basement.
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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Greece.
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Speaker 3: Joining me right now, Doctor Sherry Schwartz, and boy do
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Speaker 3: we need a shrink right on time, Doctor Sherry. Forensics
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Speaker 3: psychologists specializing in capital mitigation at panthermitigation dot com. Author
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Speaker 3: of criminal behavior and where law and psychology intersect. Okay,
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Speaker 3: doctor Sherry, Now she files for a divorce, you know,
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Speaker 3: but we got to give the woman a little leeway here,
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Speaker 3: because I see women all the time married to criminal defendants.
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Speaker 3: Either they don't see or they don't want to see
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Speaker 3: what's happening. We understand and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Speaker 3: Kristin Thorn joining US ABC Channel seven. I think the
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Speaker 3: Sun may have some type of handicap, some type of
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Speaker 3: developmental handicap. Now that she's got the daughter with that,
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Speaker 3: the bio dad is Rix Sherriman, So she's dealing with
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Speaker 3: raising a son who has disabilities, which is very, very
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Speaker 3: difficult to do. It's hard enough raising two children without
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Speaker 3: developmental problems, but having one with special needs as a
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Speaker 3: whole another layer of complexity. And you know he's a
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Speaker 3: crap husband, No way, this guy's a good husband. So
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Speaker 3: doctor Sherry, how is it that you don't know your
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Speaker 3: husband is storing body parts in the attic?
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Speaker 9: That's a really good question. If we're dealing with a psychopath,
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Speaker 9: it's important that people know that they wear a mask
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Speaker 9: of faith persona to hide who they really are, just
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Speaker 9: a single mask. They construct different masks for people, different people,
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Speaker 9: different situations, and they use those masks to manipulate and
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Speaker 9: get what they want. And these are also predatory individuals,
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Speaker 9: so they know what to do and what to say
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Speaker 9: to be able to manipulate and control people. And honestly,
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Speaker 9: we don't know what kind of life she was living
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Speaker 9: with this person, the mask that he was wearing in
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Speaker 9: the house maybe was abusive and not so charming, right,
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Speaker 9: and so like you said before about the other serial
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Speaker 9: killer not allowing the wife to go anywhere near the
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Speaker 9: trophy room, that's entirely possible in this house.
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Speaker 2: Wow. Joining me is Kristen Thorne.
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Speaker 3: But I want to go now to Toby Woolson Forendsic
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Speaker 3: consult a specializing in DNA zerology, blood pattern analysis and
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Speaker 3: you can find them at no Slow Forensics dot com. Toby,
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Speaker 3: what forensics do you believe we're in that home? And
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Speaker 3: do you believe the wife's DNA in addition to the
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Speaker 3: hair could be on the victims? All so very important
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Speaker 3: in that room in his basement that was locked that
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Speaker 3: he would let anyone go into, how should.
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Speaker 2: That they processed? That's really important?
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Speaker 10: Well, the whole house needs to be processed with a
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Speaker 10: fine tooth comb just in case. But then that room's
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Speaker 10: going to take you be focused on because it is locked,
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Speaker 10: and we know from experience that serial killers tend to
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Speaker 10: have layers that they keep so that they can go
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Speaker 10: back and relive the murders that they're doing. So when
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Speaker 10: it comes to that room, I'd be taking it down
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Speaker 10: to the studs looking for evidence, hair, evidence. This case,
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Speaker 10: being this old, the evidence that's probably going to be
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Speaker 10: most likely found is going to be trace evidence like
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Speaker 10: the hairs and the fibers and things of that nature,
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Speaker 10: but you never know, so processing it's going to have
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Speaker 10: to be very thorough along with the rest of the house,
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Speaker 10: but especially that room. The cat hair is an interesting
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Speaker 10: thing because as those of us with cats are aware,
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Speaker 10: you know, they here sticks to everything except the cat,
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Speaker 10: and they can forensically test those cat hairs to demonstrate
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Speaker 10: that they came from a particular cat or lineage cat.
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Speaker 10: So if there are animal hair is involved, that's can
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Speaker 10: become an interesting area of analysis. And then the use
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Speaker 10: of the mitochondrial DNA in this case is fascinating because
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Speaker 10: it used more an ancestry than it is in forensics,
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Speaker 10: but it has been available for forensic use since about
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Speaker 10: two thousand and What it does is it shows you
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Speaker 10: a genetic connection between the female side of the line.
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Speaker 10: We don't know why male mitochondrial DNA doesn't pass on
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Speaker 10: or disappears, but we do know that female that mitochondrial
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Speaker 10: DNA has passed down through the mothers to their offspring
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Speaker 10: and from the offspring to their offspring, and it doesn't
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Speaker 10: really change unless there's a mutation. So it's used for
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Speaker 10: demonstrating ancestry. You can follow it all the way back
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Speaker 10: to theoretically Eve, the original mother, through all of us,
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Speaker 10: and it's used for identification purposes. They identified the bodies
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Speaker 10: of the romanov by using mitochondrial DNA, so it's a
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Speaker 10: fascinating area and for them to have gotten quite frankly,
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Speaker 10: they got lucky finding hairs that matched the wife associated
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Speaker 10: with multiple victims. That takes it away from being a
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Speaker 10: coincidence to a pattern. And then finding his hair also
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Speaker 10: to demonstrate that it had to be in contact with
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Speaker 10: him and not just the wife.
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Speaker 3: Well, I'm very curious regarding if the wife ever tried
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Speaker 3: to go down there and clean up, or ever became curious,
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Speaker 3: because I want to point out paula dates name may
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Speaker 3: not ring a bell, but her husband name will certainly
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Speaker 3: ring a bell. Dennis Raider BTK by torture kill, the
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Speaker 3: serial killer who was a dog catcher and had a
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Speaker 3: wife and children, a deacon at his church, so on,
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Speaker 3: so on, so on. Catch this, Okay, I hope you're
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Speaker 3: sitting down for this. His wife once found one of
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Speaker 3: the poems he wrote about one of his murder victims,
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Speaker 3: and at the time she stated the poem scared her.
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Speaker 3: He lied to his wife, claiming the poem was just
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Speaker 3: a project he was working on about BTK for one
18:45
Speaker 3: of his college classes, and she believed it. I mean,
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Speaker 3: I guess when you're in love, you're willing to believe
18:52
Speaker 3: the very best. To under Tim Gallagher, Doctor Gallagher, I'm
18:57
Speaker 3: so happier with us today. To Gallagher is the medical
19:01
Speaker 3: examiner for the State of Florida. You can find metpathcremed
19:05
Speaker 3: dot com, lecturer at University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine,
19:11
Speaker 3: and the founder and host of the International Forensic Medicine
19:16
Speaker 3: Death Investigation Conference. Well, I would be completely in heaven there,
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Speaker 3: Dr Gallagher. I want to talk to you about the wife.
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Speaker 3: About this wife, Miss Ellerup, who has just filed for divorce.
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Speaker 3: And I want to also point out that Btk's wife
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Speaker 3: filed for an emergency divorce. You ever heard of that?
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Speaker 3: An emergency divorce and the court granted it. That said
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Speaker 3: Dr Gallagher. She says she's not involved. I believe her
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Speaker 3: because the evidence tells me she wasn't involved. She was
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Speaker 3: out of town during the time that three of the
19:54
Speaker 3: victims were murdered and killed. That said, how do you
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Speaker 3: look at a victim's body at this juncture?
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Speaker 2: How do you look back at what was processed at
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Speaker 2: the time. How do you.
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Speaker 3: Find DNA on a victim's body, like this hair that
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Speaker 3: belongs to the wife, Like the hair that was found
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Speaker 3: on one victim at the bottom of another burl at
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Speaker 3: bag that belongs to the defendant Rex Huerman.
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Speaker 2: How do you find this microscopic evidence that can prove
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Speaker 2: someone beyond reasonable doubt guilty of murder? How do you
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Speaker 2: go about finding that on a body?
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Speaker 11: Well, it's definitely not easy, and that's one of the
20:43
Speaker 11: reasons why we do value our technicians, our forensic technicians
20:48
Speaker 11: so highly. Generally, what we'll do is we'll put the
20:52
Speaker 11: remains on a stainless steel table and will use initially
20:57
Speaker 11: a very high l E or halogen type lighting.
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Speaker 2: Oh, doctor Gallagher, I'm trying to take notes.
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Speaker 3: Go ahead, you and bernarda go, go, go, Okay, I'm ready,
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Speaker 3: halgen halja lamp.
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Speaker 11: Right, So we would use either LED or halogen type lighting.
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Speaker 11: We would vary the angles to get different views.
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Speaker 2: Now, wait a minute, I had not thought of that.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl mccollm. Did you hear that? So they get the halogen.
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Speaker 3: Lamp and I don't know if it's this kind, but
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Speaker 3: I imagine one that has a double What would you
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Speaker 3: say next to it that you can bend or maybe
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Speaker 3: do you use a halogen like a flashlight?
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Speaker 2: But halogen? What kind of light is it? Doctor?
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Speaker 11: Well, much like the operating room has the lights over
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Speaker 11: the patient when they operate, we have the same exact
21:49
Speaker 11: model which hangs from the ceiling, has many elbows to it,
21:52
Speaker 11: and you can bend it and position it in almost
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Speaker 11: any direction.
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Speaker 2: Did you hear that, Cheryl? How would you like to
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Speaker 2: be there?
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Speaker 3: And I mean I've been to autopsy, but I didn't
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Speaker 3: notice this happening where they actually angle the halogen lamp
22:06
Speaker 3: in different angles to try to make sure they don't
22:09
Speaker 3: miss a hair or a fiber or in anything.
22:12
Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, that also happens. And they will assist me
22:15
Speaker 5: when I go to the autopsy so that I can
22:17
Speaker 5: take photographs as they're going.
22:19
Speaker 3: You just have all the fun, don't you. Okay, doctor Gallagher?
22:23
Speaker 3: You left off where you angle the halogen lamp and
22:27
Speaker 3: are you looking through some type of a magnifier lens?
22:32
Speaker 11: We do have hand magnifying lenses, but we also use
22:36
Speaker 11: digital photography very extensively, where we can download the picture
22:41
Speaker 11: to a computer and enlarge the picture and blow it
22:46
Speaker 11: up and look at look at it in more careful detail.
22:49
Speaker 3: Okay, So to put that in a way that regular
22:53
Speaker 3: people like myself would understand, it's like when you take
22:55
Speaker 3: a picture with your cellphone and then you blow it
22:57
Speaker 3: up with your fingers, or you look through your lens
23:00
Speaker 3: and you blow it up to see something. I just
23:03
Speaker 3: recently had to do that getting a splinter out of
23:06
Speaker 3: Lucy's foot because of that process Gallagher's talking about right now. Okay,
23:11
Speaker 3: as you can say, Docter Gallagher, are there are going
23:13
Speaker 3: to be many stops and starts to this answer.
23:15
Speaker 11: Go ahead, right, And so basically what we're looking for
23:18
Speaker 11: are things that are unusual or unexpected, un decomposed remains
23:27
Speaker 11: or remains, for instance, a cat hair or a dog hair.
23:31
Speaker 11: Animal hair looks a lot different than human hair. It's
23:36
Speaker 11: very coarse, it's usually straight, and it's a different color
23:41
Speaker 11: than the head hair. So we will collect that. And
23:44
Speaker 11: you have to remember that when the body is picked up,
23:47
Speaker 11: it goes through a lot of different people. For instance,
23:51
Speaker 11: the people who process the scene. You have to make
23:55
Speaker 11: sure that they don't leave hair on the remains. People
23:58
Speaker 11: who transport the body leaves hair on their remains. So
24:01
Speaker 11: everything has to be collected and then traced back to.
24:06
Speaker 2: The livery service.
24:07
Speaker 11: The people who are helping you make sure it's not
24:09
Speaker 11: from them, and then by the fault would be from
24:13
Speaker 11: the remains, and then that would be from the scene,
24:16
Speaker 11: and we can process that piece of a DNA or
24:20
Speaker 11: that piece of trace evidence for identification processes.
24:26
Speaker 2: So you spot it.
24:27
Speaker 10: Where it becomes more this is Toby. Where it becomes
24:29
Speaker 10: more complex though, is yes, you're doing a visual examination
24:34
Speaker 10: using oblique lighting to spot things or look for things
24:38
Speaker 10: that are out of place. But when you get to
24:40
Speaker 10: processing actual crime scenes rooms things like that, like say
24:44
Speaker 10: the room at his house, you use a vacuum cleaner.
24:47
Speaker 10: They have special vacuum cleaners that they use or vacuums
24:51
Speaker 10: that they use that have collection containers on them, and
24:55
Speaker 10: they basically vacuum up the rooms to catch as much
25:00
Speaker 10: and as much trace material as possible, which is a
25:02
Speaker 10: nightmare from the analysts point of view because they have hundreds,
25:06
Speaker 10: if not thousands of this debris that they have to
25:09
Speaker 10: sort through. But you know they'll process the crime scenes
25:13
Speaker 10: or potential crime scenes like that room in his house,
25:15
Speaker 10: by using these vacuums to collect all the trace evidence.
25:20
Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum, we have many, many times encountered the use
25:26
Speaker 3: of the vac explain.
25:28
Speaker 5: Them that it is probably one of the best tools
25:31
Speaker 5: right now to extract DNA off items. And it can
25:35
Speaker 5: be taken to the crime scene, so you don't have
25:39
Speaker 5: to just take everything and get it back to the lab.
25:41
Speaker 5: You can do it right there. And it's a system
25:44
Speaker 5: that almost looks like the vacuum cleaner you can rent
25:49
Speaker 5: to do. Like a steam clean it shoots out solution
25:52
Speaker 5: and sugs it back up at the exact same time,
25:54
Speaker 5: and then it filters through a system that leaves the
25:58
Speaker 5: DNA at the top, and you have this DNA that
26:02
Speaker 5: you can get from a rock, from rope, from wood
26:06
Speaker 5: floors to a victim's body. So to me, it's the
26:11
Speaker 5: best thing going right now to extract DNA off potential evidence.
26:15
Speaker 8: But can I make another point about what.
26:16
Speaker 5: They're doing right now at that scene, please do? Yeah,
26:19
Speaker 5: if this was my scene, I would be going into
26:22
Speaker 5: the walls that I'll be taking up the flooring after
26:24
Speaker 5: I did everything else. He's got places that he could
26:27
Speaker 5: potentially hide things. But this is what you're watching. They
26:31
Speaker 5: do not know right now how everything connects, how every
26:35
Speaker 5: piece of a puzzle that they're finding is going to
26:38
Speaker 5: give you this overall picture. They don't know what could
26:42
Speaker 5: be a trophy. So when you see them taking out
26:45
Speaker 5: the dolls and taking rope, and taking jewelry and taking pictures,
26:50
Speaker 5: all of these things, they're going to collect even if
26:54
Speaker 5: they don't know how it fits right now. That's what
26:57
Speaker 5: they're doing later as well.
26:58
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm so glad you say we have that. Cheryl
27:00
Speaker 3: McCollum back to Kristin Thorn joining me, investigative reporter w ABC,
27:04
Speaker 3: that's Channel seven Eyewitness News. Also she's a star of
27:08
Speaker 3: Hulu's true crime show Missing Kristin. What Cheryl just said
27:13
Speaker 3: really important because I believe that there are other victims,
27:18
Speaker 3: whether they're in Vegas or South Carolina or right there
27:21
Speaker 3: in the Tri state area at some other dumping site,
27:24
Speaker 3: which is entirely possible because we know he used Gilgo
27:28
Speaker 3: Beach because it was so convenient to his place is
27:32
Speaker 3: twenty five minute drive max. And in the middle of
27:34
Speaker 3: the night when he's dumping these bodies, it's probably more
27:36
Speaker 3: like an eighteen minute drive, so we know he wants
27:39
Speaker 3: convenience in dumping bodies.
27:41
Speaker 2: We know that.
27:43
Speaker 3: I wonder if he was using the back of that
27:45
Speaker 3: Chevy Avalanche to transport bodies. But that said, things he
27:50
Speaker 3: that are, things that are being taken out of the
27:52
Speaker 3: home could link to other victims, not just the Gilgo
27:58
Speaker 3: Beach victims, beyond, because if he is a souvenir keeper,
28:03
Speaker 3: a trophy keeper, he'll have trophies from other women, not
28:07
Speaker 3: just these women Kristen.
28:08
Speaker 7: Absolutely and Nancy. That's why they're spending so much time
28:11
Speaker 7: at this house. You know, I've covered crime scenes and
28:14
Speaker 7: homicides for what almost twenty years, and to still have
28:19
Speaker 7: investigators at this house nearly a week later tells you
28:22
Speaker 7: that they are ripping that house apart. They are going
28:26
Speaker 7: through every single inch of it. And I loved hearing
28:29
Speaker 7: from your experts about these different tools that they use.
28:32
Speaker 7: I had no idea that that's what they're using. How
28:34
Speaker 7: fascinating that is. But that's why that work is so
28:37
Speaker 7: important and why they have to be so careful, and
28:40
Speaker 7: why they're spending all this time at that house and
28:43
Speaker 7: at those two storage units because they do need to
28:47
Speaker 7: get down to the studs. They're going to have to
28:49
Speaker 7: do that.
28:50
Speaker 10: This is totally to interject when you're doing taking a
28:53
Speaker 10: part of a house or a car or anything. People
28:56
Speaker 10: are not very good at cleaning up blood. And one
28:59
Speaker 10: of the places where it's not unusual to find large
29:04
Speaker 10: amounts that they've missed is when you pull up the carpeting.
29:07
Speaker 10: You may get it to the point of looking like
29:10
Speaker 10: the carpet's clean. Patting under the carpet, it's a big sponge.
29:15
Speaker 10: I can't tell you how many cars or crime scenes
29:18
Speaker 10: I've been at where we were asked to remove the
29:21
Speaker 10: carpeting to see what was under it, and we found
29:23
Speaker 10: enormous amounts of biological materials in the form of blood
29:28
Speaker 10: that hopefully has not deteriorated to the point where we
29:31
Speaker 10: can't analyze it, but it's there. It lasts for very
29:35
Speaker 10: long periods of time because you can't see it and
29:38
Speaker 10: it's protected.
29:39
Speaker 5: I agree completely they are doing a systematic demolition.
29:43
Speaker 2: On that app I pray they are.
29:57
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
30:01
Speaker 3: Guys in the last hours literally, the wife of alleged
30:05
Speaker 3: serial killer Rex Human, has filed for a divorce. I
30:09
Speaker 3: think we know why, and we're talking about how you
30:12
Speaker 3: can ignore signals. This is we learned that police are
30:16
Speaker 3: now interviewing sex workers across the board, trying to find
30:19
Speaker 3: out if any of them know anything regarding Rex human
30:25
Speaker 3: But I want to talk about Linda Yates. Her husband
30:28
Speaker 3: a prolific serial killer we believe murdered up to eighteen people,
30:33
Speaker 3: most of them either sex workers or with drug problems.
30:38
Speaker 3: She thought he was cheating on her because she would
30:42
Speaker 3: find evidence he was staying at pay by the our
30:45
Speaker 3: local motels in Spokane. He claimed when she confronted him,
30:51
Speaker 3: he just wanted to use the hot tub to help
30:53
Speaker 3: his aching joints. When she found blood in a vehicle,
30:59
Speaker 3: he claimed he had hit a dog and had tried
31:02
Speaker 3: to save it. So it seems to me that these
31:07
Speaker 3: spouses are willing to accept whatever story the killer tells them.
31:13
Speaker 3: Kristin Thorne, so many developments all at once. I'm very
31:17
Speaker 3: curious what you think and what it means, which I'll
31:21
Speaker 3: go to the rest of the panel on this. That
31:24
Speaker 3: Rex Huerman actually called one of the victim's sisters and
31:30
Speaker 3: taunted her. To me, that means he was very amateurish
31:35
Speaker 3: he wasn't thinking about leaving a trail, and his sato
31:40
Speaker 3: massochism was at such a high level, well actually just sadism,
31:45
Speaker 3: that it overtook his common sense because he enjoyed calling her,
31:50
Speaker 3: taunting her from the victim's cell phone. What do you
31:54
Speaker 3: make of that, Kristen Thorne, what can you tell us
31:56
Speaker 3: about it?
31:57
Speaker 7: Not just taunting her, he told her, And the family
32:00
Speaker 7: has put this out there in the media years ago
32:03
Speaker 7: that they had received this phone call. They tried to
32:06
Speaker 7: keep it quiet for a little bit and then they
32:07
Speaker 7: put it out. But not only did he taunt them,
32:09
Speaker 7: he told them the sister what he did to Melissa Bartholome,
32:14
Speaker 7: how he raped her, how he killed her, and they
32:17
Speaker 7: immediately notified authorities. The authorities traced where this call may
32:20
Speaker 7: have come from, which of course is midtown Manhattan, which
32:22
Speaker 7: we know around Penn Station, but close enough to where
32:25
Speaker 7: rock Herrman's office was, and they couldn't find anything, obviously,
32:29
Speaker 7: But you know, when you look at the timeline. Nancy,
32:32
Speaker 7: your expert the other day, brought up a very interesting point.
32:35
Speaker 7: You know, Maureen, the first victim disappeared in two thousand
32:38
Speaker 7: and seven. Melissa was two thousand and nine, So there
32:41
Speaker 7: was a little bit of a gap there. And I
32:44
Speaker 7: wonder if, because one of your experts mentioned this with
32:47
Speaker 7: serial killers and psychopaths, that they get deeper and deeper
32:51
Speaker 7: into their behavior, right, this sick behavior. And I wonder
32:54
Speaker 7: if after Melissa disappeared, if he thought this phone call
33:00
Speaker 7: was the next step, correct, this next step in this
33:03
Speaker 7: process of becoming this this killer, and to call the
33:08
Speaker 7: family and to do that is such a level of
33:12
Speaker 7: the pravity and to leave that with the family for
33:16
Speaker 7: all of this time, Nancy. I also want to tell
33:19
Speaker 7: you that the sex workers that I've been talking to
33:22
Speaker 7: that are currently working in New York City and they
33:24
Speaker 7: are on site that obviously I am not on and
33:27
Speaker 7: most people that I know are not on for the
33:29
Speaker 7: work for getting clients. There's a lot of talk in
33:32
Speaker 7: the sex worker community right now in the New York
33:34
Speaker 7: price State that women had gone to police about Rex Sherman,
33:39
Speaker 7: and their agencies that they work for had gone to
33:42
Speaker 7: police because he was a problematic client. And that's something
33:48
Speaker 7: I definitely want to try to figure out. We know
33:50
Speaker 7: that the sex worker community is not listened to, These
33:54
Speaker 7: women are disregarded, and so if there was you know,
33:58
Speaker 7: agencies out there that had notified police about this problematic client.
34:04
Speaker 7: That is certainly concerning.
34:06
Speaker 2: It really is.
34:06
Speaker 3: So many red flags of alarm were waved, like the
34:14
Speaker 3: Matador tape in front of the bull, but nothing was done.
34:19
Speaker 3: Speaking of of take a listenerur cut seventy eight our
34:22
Speaker 3: friend Stacy Sagre ABC seven.
34:24
Speaker 9: Former escort Nicki Brass, who says human solicited her approximately
34:29
Speaker 9: eight years ago.
34:30
Speaker 5: I had a really really bad feeling, like my gut
34:33
Speaker 5: was like telling men needed to get away from.
34:35
Speaker 4: Him, especially when he actually mentioned the Gilgo case.
34:39
Speaker 2: She says.
34:40
Speaker 5: When he talked about it, he would like speak in
34:42
Speaker 5: a day and hypothetical, but he had this like smile
34:47
Speaker 5: on his face.
34:47
Speaker 8: I mean me really uneasy.
34:49
Speaker 1: She ended the date early.
34:51
Speaker 3: Okay to doctor Sherry Schwartz joining US forensic psychologist. We've
34:56
Speaker 3: seen that many times before, the defendant having a peculiar
34:59
Speaker 3: interest in the case prior to his arrest, fixating on it, well,
35:04
Speaker 3: watching TV reports, just compulsive Google searches, trying to find
35:10
Speaker 3: out and in this case, Hureman was apparently searching all
35:13
Speaker 3: of the victims, the police movements, and the victims' families.
35:18
Speaker 3: They're whereabouts, what they look like as the years passed.
35:23
Speaker 3: What do you make of it?
35:24
Speaker 9: Doctor, Well, it's really interesting because we have a true
35:29
Speaker 9: crime obsessed culture because it's interesting, these cases are very fascinating.
35:33
Speaker 9: But when it weaved into the water of looking at
35:35
Speaker 9: police movements in the case, that's not normal.
35:38
Speaker 10: Right.
35:39
Speaker 9: So, if somebody's looking into the murders because it's interesting
35:42
Speaker 9: to them, they maybe want to try to solve the case,
35:45
Speaker 9: they want to try to understand who's doing this, that's
35:48
Speaker 9: normal behavior. It becomes abnormal when they're obsessed with the
35:53
Speaker 9: police investigation in the case and really doing what they
35:57
Speaker 9: can to track that information. And that is when you
36:00
Speaker 9: have to take a very very close look at this person.
36:03
Speaker 9: Why would they have such an interest in that if
36:06
Speaker 9: they're not a former law enforcement officer or they're not
36:09
Speaker 9: a current investigator who might be interested in getting in
36:12
Speaker 9: on trying to solve the case.
36:13
Speaker 3: If you have information or think that you have information,
36:17
Speaker 3: please dial one eight hundred two two zero TIS one
36:22
Speaker 3: eight hundred to two zero tips Goodbye.