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One Leg Up With Grammy-Award Winning Studio Engineer Bill Schnee 5-13-24 · OneLegUpAlex Media

0:02
Here's your host, Alex Garrett. Well, there's so much going on in
0:07
the news. You know, we have the Trump trial and Michael Cohen testifying
0:11
against his former boss, you know, the fixer on the stand. And
0:14
then there's also the fact that our own Joe Piscopo at the radio station I
0:18
worked with, got to interview President Trump over the weekend at the incredible rally.
0:24
There's so much going on, but I want to take a deep breath,
0:28
a deep breath, and say we have a great guest today. In
0:33
fact, he was in the studio with me just a couple of weeks ago.
0:37
Mister Bill schnae is a engineer's engineer. He is a Grammy, an
0:42
Emmy Award winning sound engineer. He's worked with the likes of Steely Dan one
0:47
hundred and twenty five Gold and Platinum records, Engineer fifty Top twenty singles,
0:53
and so many more that you might recognize through this interview. But I want
0:58
to present Bill Shnay, an engineering icon and author of Chairman at the Board.
1:06
And thanks to Andy Ladding for setting this up. I Bill, as
1:22
someone who's engineering myself for just eleven years, I wanted to have your experience
1:26
during my podcast. Well, thank you for having me. I don't want
1:30
to thank Andy Gladding for making this connection. So firstly, what brings us
1:33
to New York? And congratulations on a new book. I see, Chairman
1:34
at the Board is on sale right now, let's talk about that. Well,
1:40
what brought me to New York was an airplane. Oh there's no time
1:42
for bad jokes. Oh, there's plenty of time. Okay. So what
1:45
brought me here was Andy Gladding to speak to his engineering students, and which
1:51
I'm here for the second time to do. And great pizza. There you
1:57
go, all New York pizza. You can't beat that, not beat it.
2:00
When I heard that you worked with Steely Dan, of course they're one
2:02
of my favorite bands. But you worked on Agia and Gaucho. Now tell
2:07
us about those that album alone, like working with Steely Dan, what was
2:10
that like? It was absolutely phenomenal. By the way, I have to
2:16
say this, I didn't work on Gaucho what I'm on there because that album
2:23
what they had a lot of problems making that album. Walter got hit by
2:27
a taxi crossing the street here in town. His girlfriend odd and maybe one
2:34
of the worst things for Donald was a song that he really, really really
2:38
loved got erased accidentally, and that it was he later said in an interview,
2:45
it was the worst day of his recording career. And so what happened
2:47
is they pulled out a song, one of the songs I did with Steve
2:52
Dad on Asia and finished it up Third World Man. And that's that's the
3:00
only reason I'm on there. And the funny thing is when it was nominated
3:06
and won the Grammy. When we went up, I was with Elliott Shiner,
3:09
my good friend that lives in Connecticut, and I said, can I
3:14
talk first? And he said, sure, go ahead, and I went,
3:15
I stuck my head in the mic and I said, guys, this
3:19
is a joke. I'm really along for the ride on this one. And
3:22
he said, are you kidding? If we didn't have that song, we'd
3:24
still be making that record. So well, obviously, when when engineering one
3:30
of the biggest partners to save it, So it sounds like you went in
3:32
there and really helped. But I want to ask you about engineering for what
3:38
did you engineer for the ear, for the style? What was your recording
3:42
style in the studio? And I believe the seventies studio had to be crazy
3:46
back in the day, right, Yeah, it was. It was really
3:50
bustling because the record business was in full force where they were making lots of
3:53
money because they had a product they could sell and as they made a lot
3:58
of money, and so they could sign our artists and with and give them
4:00
big budgets and make better records. And unfortunately we don't have that today.
4:04
But that's neither here nor there. No, actually it's here, so but
4:13
yeah, it was. And when you ask about my style, you know,
4:15
I mean, I've just I've been very fortunate to have worked and had
4:17
success in virtually every genre, and which is great because I love all genres
4:24
of music. Old school R and B is probably my favorite, but it's
4:30
I'm a pop junkie at the same time, and and I like orchestral music.
4:34
So what can I say. It's a little of it everything, And
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I just, you know, I just try to make make what I do
4:43
fit what's what the musicians, the composers are trying to accomplish. Look at
4:48
this list once again, Winnie Houston, Michael Jackson, Marvin Gaye, Huey
4:51
Lewis, and yet you've worked with all these icons and you're so down to
4:55
the earth. So how do you stay that grounded when you're up in the
5:00
air winning these platinums with people like you know, Sealy Day and Michael Jackson.
5:04
How do you see, say, granted through all of this, I
5:09
believe that I've been given a gift, and I start I talked this.
5:15
I talked to great musicians with this. After I became a man of faith.
5:19
I would talk to a great musician and say, you know, you've
5:23
got a real gift. And some of them would go, oh no,
5:26
some of them would find you know, if I push a little harder,
5:29
yeah, I guess yeah. I said, come on, you know what
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you've got comparative? I said, it's a gift. Yeah, I said,
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well, I have a question for you. You know, if if
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it's a gift, who's the gift giver? So that's where it starts for
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me. And because if you're given a gift is really pretty. And now
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I spent a lot of time and energy developing that gift because I believe that's
5:47
what I'm supposed to do and use it. So but it's pretty hard to
5:54
get, you know, big headed, when you know that it was given
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to you. All right, I gotta ask you this when you first one,
6:00
when your first platinum and gold records, Were you like, all right,
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now you gotta win more? Or what was that moment like when you
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first won Let's see the first I know, the first Grammy was No Secrets
6:14
Carly Simon your So Vain album. Yeah, I guess there was a thing.
6:17
You know, once you once you get you know, you get up
6:21
on the top. You want. Well, that was fun. Let's see
6:25
if we can do that again. You probably think this song is bad.
6:32
You so, but I have to tell you I never I've never gone into
6:40
anything thinking about that. Uh, like that's what what is to do?
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I because that would necessarily mean if you had something that you thought of that
6:47
about, you'd give, you know, a higher percentage. I give one
6:50
hundred and five percent to everything I do. Hopefully you know they all aren't
6:56
so winning. Didn't say okay, now I can like off you were you
6:59
were? You were not rest on those laurels. You continue to go in
7:00
the engineering studio and do your best, give it your all every time,
7:03
every time to this day and always will. Do you think today's musicians sort
7:09
of rest on their laurels, or even in the engineers of the world or
7:12
what you know. It's so tough to say because everything has changed so much
7:17
that it's hard to you know. I mean, I'm very fortunate that I'm
7:23
at I'll be seventy seven on the fourth of July, and I got all
7:28
the passion that I had in nineteen sixty four when my sixty five, when
7:32
my band got signed. So I still love what I do, and I
7:35
go in all the time, you know, giving it up, giving it
7:39
my own, your band. That's something I just learned that right now.
7:42
There's not much to tell it was, except that this part is cute.
7:46
My parents moved to southern California for my senior year of high school. I
7:51
started a band with some guys. We started writing songs, we made some
7:56
demos, and one of the band's parents knew someone who knew someone that was
8:03
in the music business, and that was a guy named Gary Usher. Gary
8:05
was friends with the beach Boy family. In fact, he wanted to be
8:09
a beach Boy, but he didn't. They didn't take him, but he
8:13
did write two of their Beach Boys biggest hits, Early Hits four O nine
8:18
and in My Room he co wrote with Brian and he had just made a
8:22
deal with Decca Records and he signed us to a contract. There's there is.
8:30
That's a very cool story, So continue on. So we in those
8:33
days it was, you know, you were signed to four sides they called
8:37
it, which you write four songs and they put out one or two singles.
8:41
If you had a hit, you'd run in and do six more and
8:43
you'd have an album. And sadly, there or maybe not sadly, there
8:48
was never an l A teen's album. We didn't have any hits. I
8:52
really thought we had one. We did. Gary came up with this idea.
8:56
It wasn't an original, but it was a song that ended up being
9:01
Shares. It called All I Really Want to Do and it was shares first
9:07
single without Sonny and so we didn't stand a chance at radio. Well,
9:11
speaking of radio, you hear that you produce in the studio and it goes
9:15
on the air. What's that like? Because even to me, I am
9:18
every time I hear my work go on the air, it's something. So
9:20
what does that mean? Yea, how exciting is that? Oh? Yeah,
9:24
just incredible? I mean and you know the first time was just insane.
9:28
I almost drove off the road. I was the first thing that I
9:31
produced. I should say the first thing that ever got on the radio was
9:35
a Toyota commercial. Funny enough, and it was very short lived. But
9:43
anyway, the first thing I produced that was a moderate hit at CBS was
9:48
nineteen seventy one. It was a band called Sweat Hoog with a song called
9:52
Hallelujah. And I remember right where I was when on the number one station
9:56
in La it came on. I had to calm myself to drive the car
10:03
straight. Right now, we're recording on Adobe edition, right, And that's
10:05
been like the recording and the engineer's friend for many years. But you got
10:09
to do real to real. I mean talk about the editing process and did
10:13
it evolve as you were evolving in the industry as well. Well, here's
10:18
the thing tape editing two. I had three mentors. Two of them were
10:22
outstanding editors on tape, cutting tape with the razor blade, and the first
10:28
one that I watched, I watched him do things I didn't think were possible
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doing that, so I knew I had to become a good editor. And
10:37
in all candor, I really did become a really good editor, and I
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love doing it now that we have pro tools and a command called command Z
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where you can go back. I liked let alone. The way you can
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handle it and stuff, I like it even more. But I'll always have
10:56
a place in my heart for sitting down with a razor blade. And I
10:58
remember one my wife saw me with razor blade because when you were working on
11:05
it, you'd put the razor blade in your mouth, right yeah, And
11:07
she'd go, what are you doing that? What are you doing there?
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And they said, it's okay, it's only one side is sharp. It's
11:13
all right. You know a lot of people in this industry have decks from
11:16
when they were in the industry years ago. Do you have a bunch of
11:20
records, you have decks? Do you have all that stuff from when you
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were engineering those historic times? Yeah? Yes, I had a you know,
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I had a big studio in Los Angeles for thirty five years and it
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was filled with The studio was based on the best of old and the best
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of new, and so I had because a lot of the old quote unquote
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ideas and technology, and especially microphones. There's nothing wrong with them. In
11:48
fact, old I believe old two microphones are the best that we're ever made.
11:52
These microphones from the fifties into the sixties, and I had a huge
11:58
collection of all of them. I saw old the studios ten years back,
12:01
when I saw the record business wasn't going to sustain studio business anymore. And
12:07
I've been selling the equipment off, you know, so my wife doesn't have
12:11
to when I well, have you done any you know what do they call
12:15
MB three's or all those different LPs now days? I guess they called them.
12:18
Have you produced those records LPs? Yeah? In fact, it was
12:22
really kind of funny. I've been I've been very excited because for the first
12:26
time maybe in my life. I mean I started out in junior high school
12:31
getting into stereo and with whatever I could afford, I had a good system.
12:35
But once I once I got in the music business, and especially after
12:39
nineteen eighty one when my studio opened, the studio was my where I played
12:45
things back so right now, when I started making records and people wanted to
12:48
make LPs out of them, I had to buy a turntable again. I
12:52
had two great turntables back in the day, and I got rid of them.
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So now I've got, for the first time of my life, a
12:58
really good hiphi system and it's wonderful to listen to. You get some of
13:03
these cute story but that is when I got into hi Phi the one of
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I was a fan of Henry Mancini and some of his I noticed that I
13:13
bought all kinds of records, but I noticed that his records sounded really good
13:18
compared to a lot of other records. And engineers back then in sixty two
13:22
didn't normally get an engineering credit on the album, but Hank made sure to
13:26
give al Schmidt credit. And so years later, when I got into business
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and I met Alan, we went to lunch one day. I told him
13:35
how he had inspired me and whatnot. I want to backtrack. You called
13:37
him, Hey, you didn't get to know Henry Man unfortunately not. I
13:39
wished I had believe me. But that's what I what a genius with him,
13:43
Oh my gosh. And the rest of my story is just recently,
13:48
you being an Steely Ann fan, there's a re release of Asia a company
13:52
called Acoustic Sounds, and it's at forty five RPM instead of thirty three,
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And you know, because that sounds better, and if you know anything about
14:01
LPs, it keeps the sound away from the label because the closer the needle
14:05
gets into the label, the worse the sound is so at forty five,
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it takes two albums to do it, two records to do it. But
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I just recently went and visited Acoustic Sounds and they gave me and they gave
14:20
me that copy, and I always wondered why they hired me to do Asia.
14:26
And when I opened up this one hundred and fifty dollars redo of the
14:31
album, there's Donald wrote some liner notes, and in the liner notes he
14:35
calls me out and says, we'd heard about this guy, Bill Shnay,
14:39
and we wanted he heard it. He was a really good high fi guy,
14:41
and that's what we wanted, so we grabbed him. Anyway, circle
14:45
back around while I was there at Acoustic Sounds, because this guy that owns
14:52
the place does this. He licenses albums and puts them out again with original
14:56
packaging and everything. Some of them include including Hatari, which was the first
15:03
album the year the first album for Best Engineered was done, and Al Schmidt
15:07
did the album with his first Grammy for Best Engineered. He did that,
15:13
and they did this one. Acoustic Sounds did this one at forty five also,
15:18
and I'm telling you, I put that first song on on my really
15:20
good Hi Fi system, and I came downstairs and said to my wife,
15:24
I think I'm going to sell insurance. All right, maybe not that,
15:26
but let me tell you that was nineteen sixty two. Boy, have we
15:30
gone backwards? That's the record sounds amazing. Tell the about Bill Snay.
15:35
I was saying, shec that I got a pronunciation Bill Snay with me here
15:39
Bill. As an engineer for myself, I've grown into this role and I've
15:43
started talking to talent, Okay, do this differently, maybe you could sing
15:46
it there. Well, I don't do music, but you know, do
15:48
it differently. And have you ever coached who's the most famous person of your
15:52
coach? I guess you'd say, I don't know, I don't know who.
15:58
That would be the time where you had to tell someone, Okay,
16:03
you could do this a little differently. Have you ever? Oh? Yeah,
16:06
I mean that that happens all the time if you're when I'm producing someone
16:10
and you know that that just depends on on on the person, and you
16:12
figure out because so much of producing is not about music, It's about psychology
16:18
and knowing how to get along with people and what makes them tick. As
16:21
an artist and so on and so forth. But you work with some people
16:25
that I produced, like Boss Gags. Uh. You know, he's a
16:27
gem to work with as far as vocally, you know, because he starts
16:32
by being a great vocalist and and he appreciates suggestions. You know. That's
16:36
and that's how I would handle him around business and street talking about that,
16:47
saying Bodist is that it's a better ship around down A lot of these bands
17:07
are going back on tour. What do you think about that? I believe.
17:11
I think, well, they can't sell albums. You got to make
17:14
money, you know. It's one of the sad facts of what's changed,
17:18
as I mentioned alluded to at least earlier in the interview, is it's not
17:22
the same record business that it was, and you can't make money selling records.
17:26
You know, it's gone from a business where the record companies had a
17:30
product they sold to a product that they lease and they make good money primarily
17:36
because of the catalog and the millions and millions and billions of plays that they
17:40
get from everything put together. But some guy making a record and putting it
17:44
out doesn't make it very much. You know, you want an Emmy as
17:47
well. Tell us about that and how you evolve from just the music world
17:52
to then television. With the end, well, it was for the best
17:56
sound on a on a production. I can't remember how it's worded, but
18:02
it was a and it was one of the easiest things to do for me.
18:07
It was Natalie Cole. It was a live show that she did after
18:11
Unforgettable was out, which a lot of Unforgettable was done in my studio,
18:17
and there was a it was a PBS. Yeah, it was a PBS
18:23
special and so it was a one night which I you know, concert and
18:30
you know, she had a phenomenal band, she's a phenomenal singer, and
18:33
everything just worked great and it was it was amazing. I did my best
18:38
to capture it and mix it to picture and I mentioned the book earlier,
18:42
Chairman of the board. If they order right now or they get the book,
18:47
tell us what they can look forward to, because I'm sure music fanatics,
18:49
I don't want to hear from you that you've worked with all these different
18:52
people from an engineer's perspective, right, Well, I love telling stories and
18:56
I always have. In fact, at one point I thought, after I
19:00
had done what I thought was all I was ever going to do in music.
19:03
I thought about becoming a film director, but I love telling stories and
19:08
people were always saying you should write a book, and I went, yeah,
19:11
whatever, Well I finally long story, but I decided to do it,
19:15
and I did it, and it was. It turned out to be
19:18
a lot of fun, and you know, I think I've tried to make
19:23
it a good read. You know, I tried to incorporate humor. I
19:27
tend to be a funny guy, even even if there's a lot of dad
19:30
jokes in there. You know, did your kids you have kids, and
19:36
did they grow up in that music industry as well? Or they did?
19:38
And they did. They all love music, and one of them is not
19:41
in my footsteps, but he is. He is in music. He's doing
19:45
he wants to do composition for film and he's really brilliant. Oliver Snay,
19:49
He's really brilliant in that. But yeah, the book will there's not much
19:57
tech talk in it. Know that a lot of people were disappointed in that
20:02
was when the book came out, every written review in Amazon was five star
20:08
until I've opened it up one day and there was a two star and I
20:11
was freaking out. And I've read it and the guy said, I didn't
20:15
learn the thing, I may as well watch how to videos on YouTube,
20:18
and so there you go. You know, I say in the intro to
20:21
the and I knew this one. I wrote it that some people were wanting
20:23
it more of a how to book. In the intro of the book,
20:26
it says, I've written this for anyone like me that loves music and records
20:30
but hasn't been as fortunate to go behind the curtain. And that's kind of
20:33
what I've tried to do, is give a behind the curtain view of what
20:37
goes on with the record companies, with the making of records. You know,
20:41
all of the different aspects you mentioned. Engineer, you have a gift,
20:44
and I feel like that it takes a certain kind of skill to run
20:48
these boards. Would you agree that there's some kind of innate thing there that
20:52
just clicks when someone you know, I'm on the board, I'm sure for
20:56
you as well. And funny enough, Yeah. The great thing about me
21:00
and why I was purposed to do this, I know it was all My
21:02
aptitude in school was in math and science. Suffice it to say that I
21:07
started college and aerospace engineering, and of course I quit after the first semester
21:12
because the La teens were going to be stars. They told us so,
21:17
and that, by the way, was the first time the record business lied
21:19
to me. It wouldn't be the last. They're another one of my humors
21:23
ticks. But yeah, So when I when I got into you know,
21:30
the musician part of me, you know started going and that's but when I
21:34
actually got into engineering itself, it came so easily for me because because of
21:40
the engineering thing it was it was just natural. What's being of technology?
21:45
While I have you here, I got to say, I have to believe
21:47
it's different engineering for an album than it is for the radio. So did
21:51
you have both of those track minds when you were recording or just get the
21:53
album done then we'll deal with the radio. Well, my first mentor was
21:57
our second producer of the band. We had two deals. After dec we
22:03
got dropped and we had another deal with Mike kerb Our producer was a guy
22:07
named Richie Podler who was an insane, incredible guitar player, wonderful, classically
22:14
trained, and also a phenomenal engineer and producer. He ended up producing most
22:19
of the three dog Night Records, Steppenwolf Records, Black oak arkansaw a lot
22:25
of rock stuff, and he always I learned. I hung on every word
22:33
he said, and I remember what he said once was it mattered? He
22:37
mixed. He mixed on one small speaker, and he said, I'm doing
22:42
this because it gives me an idea of what it'll sound like in a car
22:47
on the radio. He said, if it doesn't sound good on the radio,
22:49
no one's going to buy it. So it matters to me more of
22:52
what it sounds like in the car than a dozen speakers. And funny enough,
22:56
I've always thought, and so I adopted that, and even and kept
23:03
and did it for long time. And I've always thought, at least the
23:07
first fifteen years of my career, shall we say that the records no longer
23:15
the records sounded better on the radio than they didn't speakers? Well, how
23:19
many takes would it take with these people in the studio, Because you want
23:23
it right, just right right? So did it take a few takes to
23:26
take one take? How many takes would you say? It takes what it
23:30
takes, and if you get it, you need to know you know again
23:33
this is these are That's a question for a producer, not an engineer,
23:36
because he makes that decision. But if it's there on the first take,
23:38
it's there and it's done, and hopefully you know that and you you go
23:42
away, you know what I mean? Some producers that I worked with would
23:47
they had it on the first or second take, but they would beat the
23:49
band up. And you know, I don't know what can I say,
23:53
but it's yeah, you mentioned the fortune to be, you know, in
23:57
where you're at right now? How did you break in? I had to
24:03
take like a cliche question, but how did you break in? Well?
24:06
The real break is the most important part. I think I had worked with
24:08
a client. I'm an i'm an independent engineer now and I'm worked with a
24:12
client named Joel Sill who went on to become a music supervisor. And when
24:18
did that start? I guess the late eighties or middle eighties, when they
24:22
would put records in films instead of in some cases a score sometimes in addition.
24:29
But he was really good at that and he got a I'm an independent
24:33
engineer. My dad was a Jewish doctor. Do you know what that means?
24:37
It means I was under tremendous pressure octor, and if not that,
24:41
at least a second lawyer. So I actually had started law school and while
24:45
I was engineering the early, very earliest part of my engineering. I got
24:49
through the first semester, started the second. The grades were bad. It
24:53
was c's and a B, which was bad for me because I was faking
24:57
it. I knew I was faking it. So I had quit college for
25:02
two and a half years chasing the La teens. Now I thought I could
25:06
quit for a year and a half to chase music in production and if it
25:11
worked, great, If not, go back and get the degree and then
25:12
maybe try again. And so I've been out for a year. Fall is
25:19
starting in six months. It's getting close to having to register. And I'm
25:23
mixing in a studio and the phone buzzes and I pick it up, and
25:26
the girl in front says, Clive Davis is on the phone, and I
25:30
go, oh, my gosh, and I pick it up. Hello,
25:33
Hi Bill, Clive Davis. He said, how are you? I said
25:37
fine. He said, what do you want to do with your life?
25:40
Oh? He said, Joel tells me you're a really good musician and engineer.
25:44
Oh, thank you. He said, what do you want to do
25:45
with your life? I said, I think I'm going to go back to
25:48
law school because and he literally interrupted me and said, no, you don't
25:51
want to go to law school. I went to law school. If you've
25:53
got music in your blood, you know that's what you should do. And
25:56
I said, well, that's what I want to do, and he gave
26:00
me a shot, and fortunately the first record I produced was that one that
26:03
I mentioned, that sweat Hog, the minor hit that I had with him,
26:08
and the rest was history. Well, this has been really, really
26:11
awesome and I feel like we both have the commentity of loving this since we
26:17
were kids, right, I'm sure no fiddlers, are we yes, exactly,
26:22
And it's rewarding, especially when I get to hear it on the air
26:25
as well. So thank you for sharing your passion, sharing your story on
26:27
me, and I would love you back on in the next few months,
26:30
as well as the book of launches and whatnot. Yeah, no, the
26:33
book's been out a while, it's here. You're a little behind the times,
26:36
but that's okay. Well, we'll have you back on unless to continue
26:38
the conversation. Would love that absolutely. That's Bill Shnae, a Grammy an
26:44
Emmy Award winning engineer they call the engineer's engineer, and I'm so gratefully he
26:48
joined one leg up with Alex Garrett. Thank you, Alex, that's why
26:52
Jo it's incredible. That's one. I'm so unforgettable thinks that I am.
27:07
I'm forgettable. Two mm hmmm