Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Nicole Avant Opens Up About Grief, Finding Forgiveness, Faith & Her Parents' Greatest Advice

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INTERVIEW: Nicole Avant Opens Up About Grief, Finding Forgiveness, Faith & Her Parents' Greatest Advice · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
0:04
Speaker 2: Morning, everybody, It's DJ Envy Charlamagne de Guy. We are
0:08
Speaker 2: to Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Indeed,
0:11
Speaker 2: we have Nicole Levont.
0:13
Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you.
0:14
Speaker 2: How are you feeling this morning?
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Speaker 3: I feel so happy to be in New York, honestly
0:19
Speaker 3: because my parents just rolled in New York and met here,
0:22
Speaker 3: and my mom grew up here. And I just feel
0:25
Speaker 3: Clarence and Jackie everywhere.
0:26
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I do.
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Speaker 3: I feel. I woke up this morning, I'm looking at
0:29
Speaker 3: this city. I'm all right, Mom, all right, Dad, let's
0:31
Speaker 3: do this.
0:31
Speaker 1: Did you always have that connected with New York? Yes? Okay,
0:34
Speaker 1: why because of the story.
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Speaker 3: Of yeah and just being here, and you know, I
0:39
Speaker 3: was actually conceived in New York and then they moved
0:41
Speaker 3: to La and yes, I'm an La girl, but I
0:44
Speaker 3: always spent time here. Oh my cousins are here, so
0:47
Speaker 3: Jamaica Queens and New Rochelle and you know, Harlow, I
0:50
Speaker 3: got people all over in New Jersey, and so I
0:54
Speaker 3: just love New York.
0:55
Speaker 1: How do you know you was conceived it? That's not
0:56
Speaker 1: a good one. That's not something mose kids. Did you
0:59
Speaker 1: ask those ques.
1:02
Speaker 3: I did the timeline. Okay, by the time you moved
1:05
Speaker 3: to La. Okay, I was like, you were pregnant when
1:07
Speaker 3: you moved Chela got you, you know. I was like, okay,
1:10
Speaker 3: so I'm a New Yorker.
1:12
Speaker 1: I love that.
1:13
Speaker 4: This is Nicole Avon, the daughter of the legendary Clarence Avant,
1:16
Speaker 4: the legendary of the legendary daughter of Jacqueline Avon, And
1:20
Speaker 4: she wrote a book Think You'll be Happy. And you
1:22
Speaker 4: know how I feel about your father. I've told you
1:24
Speaker 4: that a million times. I got the opportunity to tell
1:26
Speaker 4: mister Clarence himself he's one of my top four inspirations
1:31
Speaker 4: ever in this entertainment business.
1:33
Speaker 1: Like he was the guy.
1:35
Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that. He really was. I mean,
1:38
Speaker 3: he's stealth I've never seen I mean he was ninety
1:43
Speaker 3: two when he passed, and that man going through his
1:46
Speaker 3: whole life and documenting his life and looking at everything.
1:49
Speaker 3: I said, you had a million opportunities to quit and
1:53
Speaker 3: would have every reason to quit, and no one would
1:55
Speaker 3: have ever judge you. And he looked at me like,
1:58
Speaker 3: why would you. You don't quit, You don't get to quit.
2:01
Speaker 3: You could pause, you could pivot, but no, like, your
2:05
Speaker 3: life is your life. You don't know how long you're
2:09
Speaker 3: going to be here. And his whole thing is like,
2:11
Speaker 3: you come with a number and you end with a number,
2:14
Speaker 3: So what are you going to do with your dash?
2:18
Speaker 3: That was it, What are you going to do with
2:20
Speaker 3: your life? And it wasn't not fame for him. His
2:23
Speaker 3: whole thing is, you know, greatness is very different from
2:26
Speaker 3: being famous, and a lot of people now the new
2:31
Speaker 3: generations are, oh, if I'm famous, I'm famous, I'll be great. No,
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Speaker 3: you're great and you're worthy and you're valuable just because
2:37
Speaker 3: you're alive. You don't have to have a title to
2:39
Speaker 3: be great, you know, or worthy or important or significant,
2:44
Speaker 3: you know. So that's what I'm feeling a lot that
2:48
Speaker 3: that was his whole thing. Even when he was passing away,
2:50
Speaker 3: and as you know, his last days with me, he
2:52
Speaker 3: was you know, his last words basically were like, keep
2:54
Speaker 3: your mind right, girl, keep your mind right. It's okay, daddy,
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Speaker 3: I will.
3:00
Speaker 1: That's gonna be the name of a book, book keep.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, keep your mind right.
3:04
Speaker 4: Yes, and with all his okay because this book is
3:07
Speaker 4: thinking you'll be happy.
3:08
Speaker 1: Let people know why that title is.
3:09
Speaker 3: Yes, So I think you'll be happy moving through grief
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Speaker 3: with great grays and gratitude. This I was already writing
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Speaker 3: a book in twenty twenty after I did The Black
3:21
Speaker 3: Out Father, and I thought, you know what, I'm going
3:23
Speaker 3: to write a book maybe based on the themes of
3:26
Speaker 3: The Black Got Father, which were I picked three themes grit, grayson, gratitude.
3:30
Speaker 3: And then I'm writing it and a couple of drafts
3:33
Speaker 3: and they weren't right and nothing was landing. And then
3:36
Speaker 3: this tragedy, you know, my mom is killed during a
3:39
Speaker 3: you know, a home invasion, and I'm like, oh God,
3:43
Speaker 3: And I thought, well, I have this book that I
3:45
Speaker 3: was writing. Well, I'm not going to I'm not putting
3:47
Speaker 3: this out. How are you going to put it out?
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Speaker 3: A book on grit, grays and gratitude after this. But
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Speaker 3: my father was like, mm mmm, no, you don't. You
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Speaker 3: don't let anyone take your life. You don't let anyone
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Speaker 3: stop you from doing what you're supposed to be doing.
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Speaker 3: So I said, yeah, but Dad, it's called grit, grace,
4:04
Speaker 3: and gratitude. And then think you'll be happy. Those were
4:07
Speaker 3: the last words that my mom said to me at
4:11
Speaker 3: eight o'clock that night. So we were texting about a
4:13
Speaker 3: sweet potato pie, and she said, you know, because my
4:16
Speaker 3: dad typical clearance. They came for Thanksgiving the week before that.
4:20
Speaker 3: He took his leftovers and we didn't even get to
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Speaker 3: the pie that my mom brought for me. And she
4:24
Speaker 3: was so proud that she brought me this great pie
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Speaker 3: and he took it home. So every day after Thanksgiving she'said,
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Speaker 3: come get your pie, Come get your pie. And I said, Mom,
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Speaker 3: you and this pie, it's okay. And then she texted
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Speaker 3: me that night at eight o'clock and we went back
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Speaker 3: and forth about the sweet potato pie and I said,
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Speaker 3: I'll come get it tomorrow. I'll think about it, I'll
4:43
Speaker 3: come get it tomorrow. She said, okay, think you'll be happy.
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Speaker 3: Never saw her again, never heard from her again. And
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Speaker 3: so when that happened, I thought, you know what. And
4:54
Speaker 3: then we looked at when I was showing my publisher
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Speaker 3: my team the last text, they were like, that's the
5:00
Speaker 3: title of the book because your mom actually didn't just
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Speaker 3: say I think you'll be happy about a sweet potato pie.
5:07
Speaker 3: You know, energetically and spiritually, that was your mantra to
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Speaker 3: go forward in life. That was your mantra to go
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Speaker 3: because my mom was a big believer on your words
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Speaker 3: and your actions and your thoughts will create your life.
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Speaker 3: It just can't change. We see proof of that every
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Speaker 3: single day. So I was like, right, I think you'll
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Speaker 3: be happy. Okay, okay, I'm gonna do this, like and
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Speaker 3: I'm going to move through my grief.
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Speaker 2: I was gonna ask how long did it take and
5:38
Speaker 2: how difficult was it? Oh?
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Speaker 3: It was? So I started writing right after she. I
5:43
Speaker 3: finished writing after she passed, so, you know, a year
5:48
Speaker 3: and a half, two years all together, three years. And
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Speaker 3: it was difficult to write because it was reopening the wound.
5:56
Speaker 3: Kind of felt like salt going back into the wound.
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Speaker 3: But it was all so the most cathartic thing I
6:01
Speaker 3: could have ever done, because I was able to share
6:07
Speaker 3: stories and remember stories about her. That did make me happy,
6:12
Speaker 3: that did make me grateful that Jacqueline Avon jackie A,
6:15
Speaker 3: you know what we used to call her, Jackie A,
6:17
Speaker 3: was my mother. And she really took pride in raising
6:21
Speaker 3: her children and supporting her family and loving her family.
6:26
Speaker 3: And she loved history and all history, but especially my history.
6:30
Speaker 3: She's like, you need to know who you are before
6:33
Speaker 3: you leave this house every day, So She had this
6:35
Speaker 3: thing and we called it the Great Wall. It was
6:39
Speaker 3: letters and anything from Booker T. Washington to id B. Wells,
6:44
Speaker 3: Harriet Tubman to George Washington, Carver and Hank Earon and
6:48
Speaker 3: so and so. So She's like, so politics, you know, sports, entertainment, literature, art,
6:54
Speaker 3: You're going to see the greats Josephine Baker. There was
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Speaker 3: not a day where I didn't walk out of my
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Speaker 3: house where I didn't look at Josephine or Ruby Bridges.
7:02
Speaker 1: You know.
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Speaker 3: My mom's whole point is like, so when you go
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Speaker 3: out in the world, you will understand who you come from,
7:08
Speaker 3: what stock do you come from? And then so no
7:12
Speaker 3: matter what comes against you, you'll know the truth of
7:16
Speaker 3: you owe these people all life. You know, you owe people.
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Speaker 3: These people could have quit and could have taken their
7:22
Speaker 3: own lives, and they fought, and here you.
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Speaker 1: Are doing this book.
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Speaker 4: Also had to be tough because you're honoring your mother
7:30
Speaker 4: with this book. But then the late Great Clarence Avon
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Speaker 4: passed away. So how you've been navigating that?
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Speaker 3: You know, it was the last twenty months. So when
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Speaker 3: my mom when we left the hospital, so my mom,
7:43
Speaker 3: you know, she was shot. She was shot in the back.
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Speaker 3: She made it to the hospital. She did not die
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Speaker 3: in her house. She made it to the hospital. She
7:51
Speaker 3: you know, was in surgery. You know, they did what
7:53
Speaker 3: they could, but she lost way too much blood. From
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Speaker 3: that moment, I looked at my father right when they
8:00
Speaker 3: gave us the news, I said, Okay, you're coming home
8:02
Speaker 3: with me. Let's just we were all shocked, drama, stress,
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Speaker 3: all that. I just said, come home with me. And
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Speaker 3: then for the last twenty months, I said, Okay, you're
8:12
Speaker 3: gonna be my road dog. We're just gonna hang. We're
8:14
Speaker 3: gonna be together. I'm not going to leave you. You're not
8:16
Speaker 3: gonna leave me, and we're gonna get through this shit
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Speaker 3: as best as we can. I don't even know what that.
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Speaker 3: I don't even know what it looks like.
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Speaker 1: Daddy.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, I was like, but we are
8:28
Speaker 3: going to We're going to get through it. And he
8:32
Speaker 3: would catch me sometimes he's like, get out of that
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Speaker 3: quicksand get out of that quicksand because I can see
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Speaker 3: you just spiraling. And he was so great because he
8:41
Speaker 3: was still Clarence and he basically was like this is
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Speaker 3: I mean, some days he didn't even say killed. He
8:46
Speaker 3: never even used that word he would say when Jackie
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Speaker 3: disappeared the day Jackie disappeared, because it was so you
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Speaker 3: know what, and but to have him for twenty months
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Speaker 3: living under my roof with my husband, and we just decided, Okay,
9:03
Speaker 3: our intention with him is he's going to feel safe,
9:05
Speaker 3: he's going to feel loved, and he's going to feel secure.
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Speaker 3: And it was the best twenty months I actually could
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Speaker 3: have ever had, because yes, I grew up with him,
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Speaker 3: but I left home at eighteen, never really came back home,
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Speaker 3: would spend time with him, but he was busy, Clarence
9:22
Speaker 3: amount was doing things, and so I never really had
9:25
Speaker 3: all his energy to myself anyway. And so now as
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Speaker 3: an older man and a wiser man and a calmer man,
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Speaker 3: I received so much more wisdom. And it was just
9:39
Speaker 3: out of a tragedy that was the best thing that
9:41
Speaker 3: could have happened, was that I got to live with
9:43
Speaker 3: Clarence again.
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Speaker 4: Did you kind of feel like he was transitioning soon?
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Speaker 4: Because they always say when couples have been together that long.
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Speaker 3: I love that you asked that question. I swear to you.
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Speaker 3: The first three weeks I kept thinking, oh my god,
9:55
Speaker 3: we probably have three weeks with him. Wow, we probably
9:58
Speaker 3: have two months with him. Wow, because to your point,
10:01
Speaker 3: all science shows, everybody shows like, oh, usually if its
10:03
Speaker 3: spouse dies, especially at an older age, the next one
10:08
Speaker 3: goes right after and within six months, and I thought,
10:11
Speaker 3: oh my god, how am I gonna go? How are
10:13
Speaker 3: we gonna do this? And then three months we'll go, by,
10:15
Speaker 3: then another three months ago. By by the time we
10:18
Speaker 3: got to nine months, I looked at him and I said,
10:21
Speaker 3: he's Clarence Abon. I don't know what to tell you.
10:25
Speaker 3: I said, now I understand why I call him the Godfather.
10:27
Speaker 3: Like he he he. He would always say to me,
10:30
Speaker 3: I'm gonna live as long as I can, and when
10:33
Speaker 3: it's time for me to go. He literally read the
10:36
Speaker 3: New York Times obituary column every single day, and he'd
10:40
Speaker 3: read about other people's lives. He loved it, and he
10:42
Speaker 3: was like, I'm making sure I'm not in here. I'm
10:45
Speaker 3: just making sure I'm not in here today. And then
10:49
Speaker 3: I would say no. My teas him, and I said,
10:50
Speaker 3: one day I go, Daddy, when you do go, you're
10:52
Speaker 3: gonna have the whole page. He goes, Oh, Nicole, please,
10:55
Speaker 3: they probably won't put me in there. I maybe I
10:56
Speaker 3: have a little paragraph, and when he died, the New
10:59
Speaker 3: York Times gave him the whole back age and I went,
11:02
Speaker 3: there you go.
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Speaker 4: Now we know grief isn't linear. And now the thing
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Speaker 4: I love about your book is it feels like everything
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Speaker 4: your mother and father instilled and you helped you to
11:12
Speaker 4: be able to navigate this.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's not linear. It's like
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Speaker 3: a rollercoaster. Grief is just some days you're good and
11:23
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I got this, and then a song
11:25
Speaker 3: would come on the radio. I mean, my mom loved
11:28
Speaker 3: the Spinners and she loved easy music. You know, she
11:30
Speaker 3: loved the Commodorees and the Spinners and Al Green, any
11:33
Speaker 3: of those guys came out on the radio. I was
11:36
Speaker 3: just destroyed for those five minutes of that song. Bill
11:39
Speaker 3: Withers would come on and I think of you know,
11:42
Speaker 3: I think of my mom, and grief just it's waves.
11:48
Speaker 3: But it also hits every single human being on this planet.
11:54
Speaker 3: No one gets to escape grief. Grief is different for everybody.
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Speaker 3: But the thing that helped me be calm or calm
12:02
Speaker 3: me down about it was when I got anxious, was
12:05
Speaker 3: I'm not the only one who's grieving today. I'm not
12:09
Speaker 3: the only one. There are mothers who are burying their
12:11
Speaker 3: children around the world. There are mothers in our children's
12:14
Speaker 3: hospital right who work in three jobs. There're a five
12:17
Speaker 3: year old has leukemia, and that's grief. Your dog dies,
12:21
Speaker 3: it's grief, yea, your grandparents, whatever it is, or sometimes
12:24
Speaker 3: it's not even a death. You're fired from a job
12:27
Speaker 3: that you loved and you gave so much of your
12:29
Speaker 3: efforts and you were just don't know what happened. Grief
12:32
Speaker 3: is hard, but it is you are able to move
12:37
Speaker 3: through it. Now.
12:38
Speaker 2: I want to talk forgiveness and faith, right, Yes, now,
12:41
Speaker 2: you talk about that. You talk about that a lot
12:43
Speaker 2: in the book, and that's very difficult for most people
12:46
Speaker 2: to forgive, and especially with something like that, you kind
12:48
Speaker 2: of lose a little bit of faith at first. Oh,
12:52
Speaker 2: how did you get that faith back? If you ever
12:54
Speaker 2: got it back, And let's talk about forgiveness.
12:57
Speaker 3: Yes, good question. So my faith in that moment, It's
13:02
Speaker 3: interesting when it happened, I walked back to my car,
13:06
Speaker 3: Like Ted and my father left the hospital separately, I
13:10
Speaker 3: had my own car and immediately, like my grandmother always
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Speaker 3: the first scripture that came to me, I am strong
13:17
Speaker 3: in the Lord and in the power of the I
13:19
Speaker 3: am strong in the Lord and in the power of
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Speaker 3: I just kept saying it over and over and over
13:22
Speaker 3: again and then and then all of a sudden, I
13:25
Speaker 3: was like, wait a minute, No, actually, no, I'm not
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Speaker 3: strong in the Lord? Like where where is everybody? Where
13:31
Speaker 3: was anybody from my mom? You know? You definitely go there.
13:34
Speaker 3: But then I snapped right back into it, like, no,
13:37
Speaker 3: you know what faith isn't about. You can't just say
13:42
Speaker 3: I have faith when everything is going right. Faith isn't
13:45
Speaker 3: for when everything is going right. Faith is for when
13:47
Speaker 3: everything is going wrong. Actually, it's easy to trust God
13:50
Speaker 3: when everything's great right, It's very difficult to trust the
13:54
Speaker 3: universe and the divine when things blow up. But people
13:59
Speaker 3: have been doing this since the beginning of time. They
14:02
Speaker 3: have kept their faith. And the only reason we're all
14:04
Speaker 3: sitting here today is because people kept their faith in
14:08
Speaker 3: God and planted seeds for us right to have freedom
14:13
Speaker 3: to live the lives that we want to live while
14:15
Speaker 3: they weren't living in freedom. So if they can do it,
14:19
Speaker 3: and unfairness can come to them and trauma can come
14:23
Speaker 3: to them over and over, physical, emotional, spiritual trauma, then
14:29
Speaker 3: I'm going to have to kind of tap into that
14:32
Speaker 3: energy of other people who've also gone through this and
14:35
Speaker 3: make and I had just had to make a decision
14:39
Speaker 3: to stay in faith, even though I didn't know, even
14:42
Speaker 3: though I didn't feel like being in faith. I just
14:44
Speaker 3: made a decision. I just came home and I said, Okay, God,
14:46
Speaker 3: I don't understand any of this. I don't know what
14:49
Speaker 3: to do with this. I don't know who to call.
14:52
Speaker 3: I don't know what book to pick up. And then
14:54
Speaker 3: it was, you know my scripture, you know what I say?
14:57
Speaker 3: And the birds are going to wake up tomorrow, and
14:59
Speaker 3: the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the sun's
15:01
Speaker 3: going to set tomorrow. So this is a part of life.
15:05
Speaker 3: Death is a part of life. How we die, we
15:08
Speaker 3: don't know. And then you know. And then in the
15:10
Speaker 3: book I write TD Jakes and it's a true story.
15:13
Speaker 3: I literally walked up in my room and I fell
15:17
Speaker 3: to my knees, like, God, this is not happening. And
15:20
Speaker 3: the phone rang and it's a no caller idea. I
15:23
Speaker 3: don't think I'll hold on. I didn't know who it was.
15:26
Speaker 3: I didn't I it was a detective or somebody, And
15:28
Speaker 3: he said, is this Nicole and I said yes. He said,
15:32
Speaker 3: this is Bishop TD Jakes. I said, oh my god,
15:35
Speaker 3: well I just fell to my knees. He goes, he goes,
15:38
Speaker 3: He goes, how are you holding up? I go, I
15:39
Speaker 3: just fell down to my knees. He goes, well, then good,
15:42
Speaker 3: We're going to pray. And he did his thing and
15:47
Speaker 3: then he said, tell me why you're angry, but you're
15:50
Speaker 3: angry about I go, well, obviously what I'm angry about.
15:52
Speaker 3: I'm angry that someone did this. I'm angry about this.
15:54
Speaker 3: I'm disappointed. And he said, okay, now are we going
15:59
Speaker 3: to get this moment of five minutes gonna Are we
16:04
Speaker 3: gonna focus on your mom's eighty one years of her
16:07
Speaker 3: life and what she gave and what she did, or
16:10
Speaker 3: are we going to give this full five minutes where
16:13
Speaker 3: you're gonna go, because if you don't turn your mind quickly,
16:17
Speaker 3: this is going to be a disaster. And I said,
16:19
Speaker 3: I want to focus on the eighty one years. And
16:22
Speaker 3: then the forgiveness part was the hardest, because you know,
16:27
Speaker 3: forgiveness is a hard word, and it's a tricky word.
16:31
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people say I can
16:32
Speaker 3: never forgive that because I've said that too, which means
16:35
Speaker 3: I could never condone that. But forgiveness isn't condonement. It's
16:38
Speaker 3: never ever ever condoning a bad behavior. Ever. I forgave
16:45
Speaker 3: so that I could peace in my heart. I forgave
16:48
Speaker 3: for myself. I was like, Okay, I give up the
16:53
Speaker 3: anger and the frustration and the sadness and the disappointment.
16:57
Speaker 3: I give it up. I give it back to God
16:59
Speaker 3: because these burdens that he keeps saying, you know, give
17:02
Speaker 3: me your burdens. Okay, okay, well here in mine because
17:04
Speaker 3: I'm pissed off and I'm disappointed, and I'm so just
17:08
Speaker 3: take all this and every day I had to do that.
17:11
Speaker 3: But I definitely made sure I didn't care about this person.
17:15
Speaker 3: I don't care about his name, I didn't care about
17:16
Speaker 3: his past. I didn't care about I didn't care. I
17:18
Speaker 3: was like, I'm not giving him if any space in
17:23
Speaker 3: my brain or my heart because I don't have a
17:26
Speaker 3: bitter heart. I never had a bitter heart. But if
17:29
Speaker 3: you don't forgive, you will have a better heart. And again,
17:32
Speaker 3: to anyone who's listening, it is not about even reconciliation.
17:36
Speaker 3: I've forgiven people in my past, like friends who have
17:38
Speaker 3: hurt me. I never reconciled with them.
17:40
Speaker 1: I just forgave them.
17:42
Speaker 3: That was it. It was like, I just don't I
17:44
Speaker 3: don't even want to have I don't want to carry
17:47
Speaker 3: any weight in my body or carry the poison of
17:51
Speaker 3: unforgiveness because it's not gonna bring my mom back. It's
17:56
Speaker 3: not gonna bring Jackie back.
17:57
Speaker 1: I don't think forgiveness is linear either, though.
17:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh it's not.
18:01
Speaker 1: Oh no, oh no.
18:03
Speaker 3: Forgiveness is like all up, oh no. It's not like
18:08
Speaker 3: oh I forgive and it goes away. It's it's like
18:11
Speaker 3: I said it to some recently, it's if you have
18:13
Speaker 3: like a pure white wash cloth and it's dipped in tar, right,
18:17
Speaker 3: and you got to go back with that wash cloth
18:19
Speaker 3: and try to clean it off. It takes a long time.
18:22
Speaker 3: That's forgiveness. Forgiveness is an everyday thing. I mean sometimes
18:26
Speaker 3: I just universally, I'm like, I forgive everyone and everything.
18:29
Speaker 3: Before I go to sleep, I forgive everyone and everything.
18:32
Speaker 3: And if I've done anything to hurt anybody, I asked
18:35
Speaker 3: that I am forgiven for everything that I have done,
18:39
Speaker 3: consciously or unconsciously.
18:41
Speaker 4: So what if you in your mind you be like
18:42
Speaker 4: I forgive them, then you like, but fuck them.
18:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like God knows your.
18:46
Speaker 3: Hot one hundred percent. I was like, I'm not. I'm
18:51
Speaker 3: not trying to create any more karma at all. So
18:55
Speaker 3: my whole thing is like, I want justice to be served.
18:58
Speaker 3: That's that was my whole thing. I'm not trying to
19:00
Speaker 3: get back in anybody or I want this to happen
19:02
Speaker 3: to somebody's family. I'm not even about that. I'm not.
19:05
Speaker 3: I don't justice be served. That's that's that's the piece
19:09
Speaker 3: that I'll have for me if I get that. But
19:11
Speaker 3: forgiveness is not linear. You're right. Forgiveness is and it's hard.
19:16
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's easier than other times, but it's but but
19:20
Speaker 3: it is throughout scripture and most scriptures throughout history because
19:26
Speaker 3: of this reason, and it's for us, it's not for
19:30
Speaker 3: the other person. And I think that's why forgiveness has
19:32
Speaker 3: talked about in all the good books so much, because
19:37
Speaker 3: it's you could be really bitter or you know, my
19:39
Speaker 3: friend's mom was a survivor of the Holocaust and she
19:42
Speaker 3: said to her, the one thing you owe me, And
19:45
Speaker 3: she was a child when she was in the Holocaust,
19:48
Speaker 3: four or five, and she said, you owe me a
19:50
Speaker 3: life that's what you owe me a life, you owe
19:53
Speaker 3: you owe me a life, that's it. But you got
19:55
Speaker 3: to give me a life because I survived so that
19:58
Speaker 3: you could be here. And that always stuck with me
20:01
Speaker 3: that you know, my grandmother was like that. My grandmother's
20:04
Speaker 3: like we were born. It's you know, slavery, all of
20:07
Speaker 3: us like this.
20:08
Speaker 1: You always a life.
20:09
Speaker 3: Sh'd go do something.
20:11
Speaker 4: You know what I thought about in the book too,
20:13
Speaker 4: because you talk about how you know, the person who
20:17
Speaker 4: took your mother's life with somebody that your mother would
20:19
Speaker 4: have helped.
20:20
Speaker 1: So it made me wonder, I wonder what.
20:22
Speaker 4: Miss Jackie would have wanted for this young man in
20:25
Speaker 4: a situation like that.
20:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think miss Jackie definitely would for sure want
20:32
Speaker 3: justice and for sure want to make sure that anybody
20:37
Speaker 3: like this right, anybody male, female, black, white, anybody with
20:42
Speaker 3: any kind of energy that could be reckless or negative
20:44
Speaker 3: or whatever, just please don't be in society, because she
20:48
Speaker 3: would never want this to happen to anybody else. Surely
20:51
Speaker 3: that that was the whole My whole thing was, I
20:54
Speaker 3: just don't want I just want justice to be served
20:56
Speaker 3: so that this doesn't happen to if I can prevent
20:58
Speaker 3: this to for happening to somebody else by this person.
21:02
Speaker 3: Then that's how.
21:03
Speaker 1: I honor my mom.
21:04
Speaker 3: That's it, And there was nothing else. Nothing about him
21:08
Speaker 3: is nothing I don't have. I don't want to have that.
21:11
Speaker 3: I don't want to hate. And that was my first
21:13
Speaker 3: prayer when I got down on my knees. The first
21:15
Speaker 3: thing I said was, God, do not let me hate
21:17
Speaker 3: this person, because I can. I'm already there. I'm there,
21:23
Speaker 3: and I don't want to. I don't want to hate anyone.
21:26
Speaker 3: And that was not Jackie. She ain't hate anyone. She
21:29
Speaker 3: was in the inner city all the time. I'd be
21:31
Speaker 3: in the back of the car, like, why are we
21:33
Speaker 3: going to Watts again? You know, she said, because they
21:37
Speaker 3: need us. She was around South Central all the time,
21:40
Speaker 3: and she loved doing that anywhere anywhere in the world,
21:44
Speaker 3: but especially Los Angeles. Like, you're going to share your blessings,
21:49
Speaker 3: you should be grateful for your blessings, live out your blessings,
21:54
Speaker 3: enjoy your blessings. But a lot of people missed the
21:57
Speaker 3: second part, which is then also sir, and share your
22:01
Speaker 3: blessings with other people, so then it all goes around
22:04
Speaker 3: so that it's not you're not hoarding. Oh this is
22:06
Speaker 3: mine and I earned this, and you know, you go
22:10
Speaker 3: do your own thing. My mom was like, people had
22:12
Speaker 3: to open doors for me, People open doors for your father.
22:15
Speaker 3: People open doors all the time. So she believed in
22:17
Speaker 3: a bridge and she believed, you know, we're all going
22:20
Speaker 3: to cross this bridge, and then when we get to
22:22
Speaker 3: the other side, we need to make sure that other
22:24
Speaker 3: people can cross.
22:26
Speaker 2: Not a phrase, it is what it is.
22:29
Speaker 3: Break that down, Clarence. So one of his isms was,
22:35
Speaker 3: it is what it is, now what are you going
22:38
Speaker 3: to do about it? And that was Clarence's ways of acceptance.
22:44
Speaker 3: So his whole thing was looking cool. I'm not trying
22:47
Speaker 3: to be hard. It's not crass. It's not saying, oh,
22:50
Speaker 3: it is what it is, Oh screw you. He was saying,
22:53
Speaker 3: you have to at least own it and don't pretend
22:56
Speaker 3: this shit didn't happen. It is what it is. So
22:59
Speaker 3: whether it's I lost my job, my wife ran out
23:02
Speaker 3: on me, I got in this car accident, whatever it is,
23:05
Speaker 3: it is what it is, and then you own it
23:09
Speaker 3: and then you can make a better decision once you
23:12
Speaker 3: take accountability. It is what it is. Now what am
23:15
Speaker 3: I going to do about it? So for him, for example,
23:18
Speaker 3: he had Sussex records. He was super successful. He started
23:21
Speaker 3: then putting his hands in everything, and he was stretched
23:24
Speaker 3: so thinly. Bill Withers hated going to the radio station.
23:28
Speaker 3: He owned a radio station, he owned, He got into
23:30
Speaker 3: the oil business, he got into publishing, he got into
23:32
Speaker 3: all these things. It was too much for him, and
23:35
Speaker 3: he admitted, and I was a little arrogant. So everything crashed.
23:40
Speaker 3: Bill left. He was like, I don't want to be
23:41
Speaker 3: a part of this. I'm leaving Sussex. I'm going here.
23:44
Speaker 3: This didn't happen all of a sudden, Sussex folded, radio station,
23:48
Speaker 3: folded everything. He's in full debt, and he said, I
23:52
Speaker 3: had to look at myself and say, it is what
23:55
Speaker 3: it is. So I screwed up on this, this, this
23:58
Speaker 3: and this. I'm in debt. Oh, the government, this the
24:01
Speaker 3: irs is in my office and da da da da dah.
24:04
Speaker 3: And then he said, and I looked at myself in
24:06
Speaker 3: the mirror, and I said, now what am I going
24:08
Speaker 3: to do about it? And then he slowly but surely
24:11
Speaker 3: started picking putting the pieces together. Jackie came in and
24:15
Speaker 3: he was too. He was a little proud of, you know,
24:18
Speaker 3: asking his friends for help. But my mom wasn't too proud,
24:21
Speaker 3: so she would go drive around with me in the
24:24
Speaker 3: back cars, in the back seats, sometimes going to his friends, saying,
24:27
Speaker 3: Clarence doys everything for everybody. Where is somebody for Clarence.
24:31
Speaker 3: He's had a bad break. He's been pulling you all
24:34
Speaker 3: up this whole time. Where And Jerry Moss, who just
24:38
Speaker 3: passed away, the founder of A and M Records. He
24:40
Speaker 3: was in the M and A and M Records. He
24:42
Speaker 3: and Herb Albert God bless them, and Joe Smith different times,
24:47
Speaker 3: but they wrote they gave my parents seed money to
24:51
Speaker 3: start over, and that's what they did. And then Taboo
24:55
Speaker 3: Records started, and then and then the first band was
24:57
Speaker 3: SOS Band and it was take your Time, do it Right,
25:01
Speaker 3: And that was our comeback song in the Avon house,
25:03
Speaker 3: and you know, me and my mom played it every day.
25:05
Speaker 3: She was like, this is what I mean. You know,
25:07
Speaker 3: if you if you own what it is and you
25:10
Speaker 3: take accountability, you try at least have the intention to
25:13
Speaker 3: start over. Look what happens now. We got the number
25:17
Speaker 3: one song here and then Jimmy and Terry followed that,
25:21
Speaker 3: then La and Face followed that, and then it was
25:23
Speaker 3: Bobby Brown, and I'll be sure all these people Wayney Houston.
25:27
Speaker 3: Everything followed that. But if my dad had not owned
25:31
Speaker 3: it and owned his mistakes. And he said to me,
25:35
Speaker 3: I said, what happened with the radio station? You had
25:37
Speaker 3: the only black radio station on the West coast. He goes,
25:40
Speaker 3: I was just arrogant. I didn't want to listen to
25:42
Speaker 3: anybody in radio who knew better than I did. He said.
25:47
Speaker 3: I just thought I'm clar and to say, but I'm
25:50
Speaker 3: you know, I'm wealthy and successful. I'm living in Beverly Hills,
25:52
Speaker 3: he goes, and then boom it all just wow crash,
25:57
Speaker 3: you know. And so he always reminded me of of
26:00
Speaker 3: you know, I'd call him if I had issues in
26:02
Speaker 3: the Bahamas and the embassy. He was like, Nicole, Nicole,
26:06
Speaker 3: you cannot make a great decision, which you need to
26:09
Speaker 3: do right now if you do not accept what it
26:13
Speaker 3: is right now. So you need to just say, okay, this,
26:16
Speaker 3: this doesn't feel right, these people are doing this, this
26:18
Speaker 3: is this. Then go into what are you gonna do
26:21
Speaker 3: about it?
26:21
Speaker 1: And make a decision, explain it to people. What just
26:24
Speaker 1: choosing to swim me not going down?
26:26
Speaker 3: Oh, not going down with that as do Jackie shit
26:30
Speaker 3: every time. Because so my mom was big on She
26:35
Speaker 3: loved the idea of She's like, look, life is gonna
26:38
Speaker 3: She was like, you know, she's such a philosopher. She's like, life,
26:40
Speaker 3: it's like being in an ocean. Some days are going
26:43
Speaker 3: to be really calm, some days are going to be
26:45
Speaker 3: rough seas. You never know what you're gonna get. We
26:48
Speaker 3: think we do, we don't. And her whole point is,
26:52
Speaker 3: whatever wave comes at you, whatever whatever storm comes, you
26:58
Speaker 3: must make a choice. You have to choose to swim.
27:03
Speaker 3: Just don't go down with the ship. It happens to everybody.
27:06
Speaker 3: You gotta choose to just swim. It's dark, it's cold,
27:10
Speaker 3: you don't know how you're going to get there, she goes,
27:12
Speaker 3: And maybe you don't make it, but at least choose
27:14
Speaker 3: to try to swim. Don't go down with the ship.
27:17
Speaker 3: Which is why that was the mantra in my head
27:21
Speaker 3: of every time I wanted to go down with the ship.
27:23
Speaker 3: After this, I wanted to go down a lot, and
27:26
Speaker 3: I was going down a lot, and I would hear
27:29
Speaker 3: my mom like, you know, take a nap, take a
27:31
Speaker 3: nap and rest, but you got to get out there,
27:34
Speaker 3: and you have to swim for me, you know, swim
27:37
Speaker 3: for me, swim so that people remember me. Right, Like
27:41
Speaker 3: my dad would say, you know, righte about Jackie, Like
27:43
Speaker 3: I don't know what to write, he goes right about Jackie,
27:45
Speaker 3: right about are a lot right about this? Like it
27:47
Speaker 3: should be. He believed in legacy, you know, That's why
27:49
Speaker 3: he did everything. What he did was he was trying
27:52
Speaker 3: to create legacy, whether it was Hank Aaron or you know,
27:57
Speaker 3: Bill Withers or anybody like we're this is legacy to
28:01
Speaker 3: be passed on to the next generations, like we all
28:04
Speaker 3: survive and thrive on other people's legacy.
28:09
Speaker 4: It's not because you said you never saw your mom
28:11
Speaker 4: after the text, but in the book you speak about
28:13
Speaker 4: seeing her.
28:14
Speaker 3: Yes, crazy and beautiful. And I'm telling you it was.
28:22
Speaker 3: And it was on Christmas Eve, and it was early morning,
28:26
Speaker 3: and I had gotten up and I was like, oh god,
28:28
Speaker 3: oh my god. And I thought, this is how are
28:30
Speaker 3: we going to do Christmas? How are we going to
28:32
Speaker 3: do Christmas? And I walked downstairs and I was I
28:37
Speaker 3: found some ornaments that she had and I was putting
28:40
Speaker 3: them on the tree and everything. And then I swear
28:42
Speaker 3: to you, I felt this energy which made me turn around.
28:47
Speaker 3: I go, mom, and she was like she was standing
28:50
Speaker 3: right there, and then and then it was she was gone,
28:53
Speaker 3: but she was with me, and I felt her, and
28:55
Speaker 3: I felt her in the room, and then I was
28:59
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, it was probably the
29:01
Speaker 3: first time I really smiled in a couple of weeks,
29:03
Speaker 3: like I felt a smile. I felt myself smile, and
29:06
Speaker 3: then I knew for sure because she'd always say the
29:09
Speaker 3: spirit is everlasting. She always told me that energy is
29:13
Speaker 3: real and the spirit is everlasting, and I knew in
29:19
Speaker 3: that moment. I said, oh, Mommy, okay, you're here and
29:22
Speaker 3: you are everlasting. Okay, okay. And I remember looking at
29:26
Speaker 3: a spider that I was. I would have usually killed
29:28
Speaker 3: the spider. It was a big ass reader. My mom
29:31
Speaker 3: always would take the paper, get the tissue, like talk
29:34
Speaker 3: to the insect, and that it was Christmas Eve. I
29:36
Speaker 3: go and in honor of you, I'm not gonna kill
29:38
Speaker 3: this spider. But I felt her and I knew she
29:44
Speaker 3: was there, and it was perfect that it was Christmas Eve.
29:47
Speaker 3: And we had the best dinner that night with Clarence.
29:51
Speaker 3: We poured him his wine, we played him his music
29:54
Speaker 3: because you had to have Duke on. You had Duke Ellington,
29:57
Speaker 3: Frank Sinatra, count Base, see Quincy Jones, and he remembered,
30:02
Speaker 3: He's like, I used to go to Birdland and I
30:04
Speaker 3: was here with Jackie. And then that's when we realized
30:06
Speaker 3: how the healing was going to start for Clarence was, Oh,
30:10
Speaker 3: we're going to play all this music from the sixties,
30:13
Speaker 3: the seventies, the eighties, but mostly the sixties. When he
30:17
Speaker 3: met my mom, when he was in New York, when
30:19
Speaker 3: he was running and he was learning from Joe and
30:22
Speaker 3: he was just becoming Clarence. It was all that music
30:26
Speaker 3: because as we all know, with music, it ignites, it
30:31
Speaker 3: just reignites every memory. I mean, I could listen to
30:33
Speaker 3: his song from the eighties. I could tell you what
30:35
Speaker 3: I was wearing, what perfumer I was wearing, who I
30:38
Speaker 3: had a crush on in high school, what car I
30:40
Speaker 3: was in. I went to this football game when this
30:42
Speaker 3: song was playing. I danced with this at the prom. Mean,
30:45
Speaker 3: that's what music does. So I used music. That was
30:49
Speaker 3: my tool to play it for Clarence every single day.
30:53
Speaker 3: So breakfast we played Frank Sinatra, dinner, we were Duke Ellington,
30:57
Speaker 3: you know. Then it was count Basie and Quincy Jones,
30:59
Speaker 3: and it was just music transformed him.
31:03
Speaker 1: That's right.
31:04
Speaker 2: Was this book like a closure for you to get
31:06
Speaker 2: your feelings out, to get everything out?
31:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was a lot of crying and
31:13
Speaker 3: a lot of joy at the same time, because I
31:16
Speaker 3: really did feel, Okay, I do believe that I do
31:21
Speaker 3: believe that things are in divine I always pray for
31:24
Speaker 3: divine order always, and I was like, I don't know
31:28
Speaker 3: how this is divine, whatever it is, So this is
31:30
Speaker 3: what I'm doing if this is how I'm honoring Jackie
31:34
Speaker 3: in a book. First, and then I wanted to become
31:37
Speaker 3: more like her. So I started doing the things that
31:39
Speaker 3: she did, you know. I started reaching out to the
31:42
Speaker 3: community more. I didn't just you know, write a check.
31:44
Speaker 3: I was like, let me come down and see these
31:46
Speaker 3: kids today. Let me go and deliver these books myself.
31:49
Speaker 3: Let me go to this museum and see this exhibition.
31:52
Speaker 3: What Jackie would have wanted. And then she started to
31:55
Speaker 3: live within me in a different way, you know. And
32:00
Speaker 3: so and now kind of with my dad, it's the same.
32:03
Speaker 3: It's the same thing. I get now what he was
32:06
Speaker 3: doing for Ali and everybody was like, we got to
32:09
Speaker 3: put these people on maps so that nobody forgets. We
32:13
Speaker 3: have to create our own legacy like everybody else does.
32:16
Speaker 4: When you talk about legacy, and you know the way
32:18
Speaker 4: you speak of the house you grew up like.
32:20
Speaker 1: I can't remember what the encounter was. Was the encounter
32:23
Speaker 1: in your house?
32:23
Speaker 3: Yes?
32:23
Speaker 1: I was at their house or in their house?
32:26
Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh my oh I'm sorry my mom, yeah, my house.
32:30
Speaker 1: Okay.
32:30
Speaker 4: So with the house you grew up in, how do
32:33
Speaker 4: you get rid of that? Do you keep it? I
32:37
Speaker 4: can't sell it?
32:37
Speaker 3: Like I know, I know, it's so funny. I in
32:42
Speaker 3: the beginning of that house, I was like, hold on,
32:45
Speaker 3: let me just hold on. And I went through a
32:48
Speaker 3: lot of things with my dad, And of course my
32:50
Speaker 3: dad was like, get this to this museum, get this
32:53
Speaker 3: to this Smithsonian, get this to the African American Museum.
32:56
Speaker 3: I mean he was you know. Clarence was like, we didn't.
32:59
Speaker 3: We didn't collect all this, you know. He said to me,
33:01
Speaker 3: he goes, see, like I told you you don't take
33:04
Speaker 3: shit with you. Look at all this. She's gone. Everything's here.
33:09
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be gone. Everything's here. So we went through
33:13
Speaker 3: his wishes, went through my mom's wishes. Thank god, they
33:15
Speaker 3: wrote everything down. They were ordered like that. And then
33:18
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, And then he's so funny you
33:20
Speaker 3: say that. And then he looked at me and goes,
33:21
Speaker 3: I go, Dad, so there's some people want to buy
33:24
Speaker 3: the house. Don't sell this house, at least not while
33:27
Speaker 3: I'm alive. Don't sell this house. He goes, this is
33:29
Speaker 3: my house. He ain't taking my house. I ain't letting
33:32
Speaker 3: nobody take my house. I pay for this house. This
33:35
Speaker 3: is my house. I've been in Beverly Hills for over
33:37
Speaker 3: fifty years in the same house. And what has come
33:41
Speaker 3: through this house And then now when I look at it,
33:44
Speaker 3: I'm like, every time I go there to talk about selling,
33:47
Speaker 3: and I'm like, m I don't think so. I don't
33:51
Speaker 3: think so I might use it as something else, like
33:53
Speaker 3: it's still a Meca of greatness. And I'm telling you,
33:56
Speaker 3: I'm not just saying this. I'm not being delusional when
33:59
Speaker 3: I tell you. And the energy there is so positive.
34:02
Speaker 3: It is the most powerful it's ever been. It's almost
34:06
Speaker 3: like she was struck by lighting and that was it.
34:09
Speaker 3: And now the energy there, the hummingbirds are everywhere. The energy,
34:12
Speaker 3: the vibration is high, and there are when I look
34:16
Speaker 3: at it, and I look at like every specific piece
34:20
Speaker 3: of art, this black artist and Jacob Lawrence when Jacob
34:23
Speaker 3: was just starting, and my parents are like an Ernie Barnes.
34:27
Speaker 3: Everybody but my parents like, we gotta support these black
34:30
Speaker 3: artists and we gotta you know, and finding letters of
34:32
Speaker 3: like James Baldwin and all these things. It's just I
34:35
Speaker 3: don't know what I'm gonna do with that.
34:36
Speaker 4: Hou.
34:36
Speaker 3: It's so funny that you said that maybe that was
34:38
Speaker 3: my dad giving you a signe. I'm not gonna sell it,
34:40
Speaker 3: I know, I know, yeah, I know.
34:43
Speaker 1: They gotta get the book. We can't give the too much,
34:45
Speaker 1: but I do. Got a couple more questions though.
34:47
Speaker 4: Did you ever feel imposta syndrome in any way because
34:50
Speaker 4: you were Clarence and Jackie's daughter, like you were getting
34:53
Speaker 4: opportunities because of them and that you.
34:58
Speaker 3: I know, actually I didn't, only because this goes back
35:04
Speaker 3: to being Jackie. My mom made sure that I worked
35:07
Speaker 3: jobs since I was thirteen. Like ten, I was answering phones,
35:10
Speaker 3: I mean all the time, but I was thirteen, fourteen,
35:13
Speaker 3: I was you know, she had to back then, you
35:15
Speaker 3: had to sign the paper to allow your child to
35:17
Speaker 3: work at fourteen you know under California or whatever. I
35:20
Speaker 3: was a hostess, I was a waitress. I sold shoes.
35:22
Speaker 3: I worked at Bullocks. I was terrible at selling shoes
35:25
Speaker 3: because I couldn't put the boots back in the box properly.
35:28
Speaker 3: It's a very hard job. It's really it's particular. But
35:32
Speaker 3: my mom's point was, you need to learn how to
35:36
Speaker 3: work on your own and not in a fancy situation. So, yes,
35:40
Speaker 3: you will have internships later in life, but you're gonna work,
35:44
Speaker 3: and you're gonna meet people that you will you would
35:46
Speaker 3: have never met otherwise. And you're gonna understand how paycheck
35:51
Speaker 3: to paycheck. You don't have to you. Yeah, you're collecting
35:55
Speaker 3: and you get to put it in a savings account.
35:57
Speaker 3: They don't this, and I need you to see this.
36:01
Speaker 3: And she helped me with not having imposter syndrome also
36:06
Speaker 3: because she would say to me, and Alex, you do
36:10
Speaker 3: you Your spirit came to do whatever it's here to do.
36:15
Speaker 3: My spirit, my soul is here to do what it's
36:17
Speaker 3: supposed to do. If you want to be a teacher, great,
36:20
Speaker 3: If you want to be a psychologist, great. If you
36:22
Speaker 3: want to be a journalist, which I wanted to do, great,
36:25
Speaker 3: I'll help you go to school. But she never felt
36:29
Speaker 3: they never said you must do what we did and
36:32
Speaker 3: you must stand in our shoes. They were really great
36:35
Speaker 3: at please go create your own life, please, like we
36:39
Speaker 3: gave you life, so we don't know what your life is.
36:42
Speaker 3: And sometimes doors would open, and then sometimes they wouldn't,
36:46
Speaker 3: which was great also because then I would you know,
36:49
Speaker 3: at eighteen nineteen, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll get this
36:51
Speaker 3: job for sure, and then I didn't, and I'm thinking, well,
36:55
Speaker 3: wait a minute, wait a minute. Well I'm Clarence ave
36:57
Speaker 3: moon staughter, I'm Jackie evemonstaughter. And then my mom said
36:59
Speaker 3: you no, no, nicol people get to say no. I mean,
37:03
Speaker 3: I've always told the story I got fired from a
37:05
Speaker 3: job once and I said, can you believe they fired me?
37:07
Speaker 3: Could you believe they fired me? She said, did they
37:09
Speaker 3: fire you? Did you fire yourself? Did you fire yourself?
37:12
Speaker 3: Because she knew, She says, you would call me all
37:14
Speaker 3: the time on the big cell phones. You're the ones
37:16
Speaker 3: that were this big, so you would call me like,
37:18
Speaker 3: oh ten minutes, say to work, I hate this job.
37:21
Speaker 3: My boss wus know me and she goes, And then
37:23
Speaker 3: you were the first one out. You were the last
37:25
Speaker 3: one to get there, so you fired yourself and you
37:29
Speaker 3: know so she helped me with finding my own passion
37:35
Speaker 3: and reminded me and Alex that you guys can do
37:38
Speaker 3: really whatever you want to do. You do not have
37:41
Speaker 3: any pressure from us to feel it, to feel that
37:46
Speaker 3: you have to fill our shoes. And my dad's like,
37:48
Speaker 3: my shoes are filled, my feeter in them. He goesn't
37:53
Speaker 3: get in your own shake because don't follow my shadow.
37:55
Speaker 3: He's like, go make your own shadow. Stop standing behind me.
37:58
Speaker 1: What do you think the greatest lesson is you learned
38:00
Speaker 1: from your mother? The ultimate one?
38:02
Speaker 3: And oh there's so many that it's really simple. Jackie
38:07
Speaker 3: Avont really believed in She loved history and the importance
38:12
Speaker 3: of history and culture, different cultures, you know, learning about
38:15
Speaker 3: different cultures. She hated cultural appropriation. She was like, it's
38:19
Speaker 3: cultural appreciation. What is happening with people? You know what
38:22
Speaker 3: I mean? Like, she loved that. But she gave me
38:24
Speaker 3: this sense of a zest for life. She loved being alive.
38:30
Speaker 3: She believed in hope, She believed in compassion, and she
38:34
Speaker 3: lived a compassionate life. She lived a life of service,
38:38
Speaker 3: and she lived a life of giving and kindness, And
38:42
Speaker 3: the greatest lesson I got from her was use your
38:46
Speaker 3: freedom wisely, use your thoughts, wisely, use your words wisely.
38:53
Speaker 3: You can take you could. Really, we're the only creatures
38:55
Speaker 3: on earth that we can release our past. Right, we
38:59
Speaker 3: don't have to carry if we don't want to. You
39:01
Speaker 3: could really try to release it, manage it something. But
39:04
Speaker 3: we're the only creatures on the earth that actually have
39:06
Speaker 3: an imagination that allows us to create the future that
39:10
Speaker 3: we want. That was her greatest lesson, Like, do not
39:13
Speaker 3: forget that the power within you is the same power
39:18
Speaker 3: that creates worlds and stars and you know what I mean,
39:23
Speaker 3: you're connected to the same thing. So that's what she
39:27
Speaker 3: gave me. This understanding of life and understanding of living
39:33
Speaker 3: a worthy life, that you know, live a significant life.
39:37
Speaker 2: Is that what you want people to get out of
39:38
Speaker 2: his book by reading his book?
39:39
Speaker 3: The main thing, Yeah, it's I want people to really
39:43
Speaker 3: get that. You know, life can be hard, and all
39:46
Speaker 3: of us go through trials and tribulations, but we always
39:51
Speaker 3: have a choice on how we're going to deal with
39:54
Speaker 3: those trials and tribulations. And my hope that when people
39:58
Speaker 3: read the book, because it doesn't necessarily have to be
40:00
Speaker 3: about grief. You know, the title is Think You'll Be Happy,
40:02
Speaker 3: So it is a positive book. But I hope they're
40:04
Speaker 3: inspired and motivated and courage to live the best life
40:11
Speaker 3: that they can and understand while they're doing that that
40:14
Speaker 3: they are still they are significant and important and valuable,
40:18
Speaker 3: regardless of what their title is. Regardless like, you could
40:21
Speaker 3: still have a meaningful life and that life is really
40:25
Speaker 3: worth living.
40:27
Speaker 4: I just got through more questions. Yeah, what does Climax
40:29
Speaker 4: North Carolina mean to you?
40:33
Speaker 3: Yes? And you know that you know what that means
40:36
Speaker 3: to me that if you can come out of climax,
40:39
Speaker 3: you could do anything. I mean, if you come out
40:41
Speaker 3: of Climax North Carolina, you can do anything in the world.
40:45
Speaker 3: If you if your mind is open and you're prepared.
40:48
Speaker 3: You have no idea what's going to happen, but you
40:51
Speaker 3: can do anything.
40:53
Speaker 4: Who in this industry do you think is close to
40:55
Speaker 4: being the Black Godfather.
41:00
Speaker 3: One? There's a few, you know, it's interesting. Reggie Hudlin
41:06
Speaker 3: we did the celebration of life from my parents just
41:08
Speaker 3: last Wednesday in LA and Reggie Hudn was great. He
41:12
Speaker 3: got up and he said, what Clarence Avon has taught
41:14
Speaker 3: us the question that we should ask ourselves is what
41:18
Speaker 3: is your assignment? Clarence Avon understood his assignment, and I
41:25
Speaker 3: think it's anybody who understands their assignment and anybody who
41:33
Speaker 3: opens doors for people or makes connections for people, and
41:37
Speaker 3: who is excited to see the magic that happens as
41:40
Speaker 3: opposed to what am I going to get out of this?
41:42
Speaker 3: That's the next Clarence Avant. Yeah, yeah, no, go ahead.
41:46
Speaker 1: Is there's somebody in front of the camera, behind the scenes.
41:49
Speaker 1: It's two that come to my mind.
41:51
Speaker 3: Who comes to your mind?
41:52
Speaker 1: Tyler Ferry.
41:53
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I was just gonna say, Tyler, I was I'm
41:56
Speaker 3: just gonna seeing them on Thursday. I was gonna say,
41:57
Speaker 3: Tyler is probably the most the closest to my out
42:00
Speaker 3: in his actions. Yes, because Tyler and look at his life. Yeah,
42:05
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, if somebody had every right to quit,
42:09
Speaker 3: Tyler Perry had every single right to quit life. He
42:13
Speaker 3: had right, we would all understand how. I get why
42:15
Speaker 3: he quit. I get why he just threw in the towel.
42:18
Speaker 3: Tyler not only became one of the most successful black
42:22
Speaker 3: man in America, one of them, not just that he
42:26
Speaker 3: has is so focused and so on purpose about turning
42:30
Speaker 3: around and going into every community and was like, if
42:34
Speaker 3: you have the will, I have the way, come on
42:37
Speaker 3: and I'm going to bring you and I'm going to
42:39
Speaker 3: teach you. And he's disciplined Tyler, and he has disciples
42:43
Speaker 3: around him, right, and he's teaching always. But the thing
42:46
Speaker 3: I love about Tyler Perry is that he wants to
42:50
Speaker 3: see people succeed. He knows the law that there's enough
42:54
Speaker 3: for there's more than enough for everybody, and that no
42:57
Speaker 3: one can take from Tyler Perry or take from you,
43:00
Speaker 3: or take from you or you or you anything that's
43:03
Speaker 3: meant for you, no one can take it anyway. So Tyler,
43:07
Speaker 3: I think embodies the most of Clarence Saba because he
43:10
Speaker 3: doesn't expect anything in return. He does it with this
43:16
Speaker 3: this love. You know. Oprah's the same way, Like they
43:18
Speaker 3: put it out there and then it's like, you know,
43:22
Speaker 3: it's for grabs.
43:23
Speaker 4: But Tyler Foreshore absolute, it'd be Tyler jay Z and
43:28
Speaker 4: probably Oprah for me.
43:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're they're doing it. And by the way,
43:34
Speaker 3: look at all their Look where they all come from,
43:38
Speaker 3: the best examples of it doesn't proof, doesn't matter where
43:43
Speaker 3: you start, It matters where you finish doesn't matter. And
43:47
Speaker 3: it is a journey, and all journeys are hard. By
43:49
Speaker 3: the way, you've had hard time. We've all who who.
43:52
Speaker 3: I don't know anyone on earth who hasn't had a
43:55
Speaker 3: bump in the road or a hard journey. Some are
43:58
Speaker 3: harder than others. I know that, but I think you
44:02
Speaker 3: know having role models like that. And I'm working with
44:04
Speaker 3: Tyler now. We're working on a film together called The
44:07
Speaker 3: Six Triple Eight. It's gonna be out next year. I
44:09
Speaker 3: wasn't supposed to be a plug, but I'm gonna plug it.
44:12
Speaker 3: And I think Kerry Washington, she might have talked about it.
44:14
Speaker 3: She was here, and it's great. But Tyler and I
44:17
Speaker 3: wanted to keep legacy going. And this is a great
44:20
Speaker 3: American story that just happens to be about all female,
44:23
Speaker 3: all black battalion in the arm and what they did
44:26
Speaker 3: and how they helped us win World War Two. I
44:29
Speaker 3: was like, well, this is an important story, and I
44:31
Speaker 3: call Tyler. I was like, you should do it, because
44:34
Speaker 3: Tyler gets it. Tyler understands the responsibility that we have.
44:40
Speaker 3: It's not about just telling stories and being rich and
44:43
Speaker 3: a fancy card, a big house. Tyler understands on a
44:46
Speaker 3: very deep, soulful level, that these are ripple effects when
44:51
Speaker 3: I'm gone, when all of us in this room are gone,
44:54
Speaker 3: that whatever we put out there, it's gonna live, like
44:58
Speaker 3: this book is gonna live.
45:00
Speaker 1: Absolutely. My last question.
45:02
Speaker 4: They always say, don't cry because it's over, Smile because
45:06
Speaker 4: it happened.
45:07
Speaker 1: What have you done more of Oh?
45:09
Speaker 3: I love that I laughed. I try to laugh a lot.
45:13
Speaker 3: I watch a lot of comedy. The Comedians saved me.
45:16
Speaker 3: I was watching Chappelle for the last twenty months. I've
45:19
Speaker 3: never watched so many Netflix comedy specials, Sebastian Chappelle, Chris Rock, everybody.
45:25
Speaker 3: The laughter really is the healing bomb. It really does
45:28
Speaker 3: shift your energy. My heart would break open in different ways,
45:33
Speaker 3: and I would go to sleep every night during my
45:37
Speaker 3: trauma and my stress, I would watch comedy before I
45:41
Speaker 3: went to sleep. I needed to laugh before I laid
45:43
Speaker 3: my head down on the pillow. Yeah wow, yeah.
45:46
Speaker 1: Well the book. Pick it up. Think you'll be happy,
45:50
Speaker 1: grief and gratitude. That's right. Thank you so much. I
45:54
Speaker 1: appreciate it so much.
45:55
Speaker 3: Happy to be here. Thank you.
45:58
Speaker 1: Good morning. Wake that ass up Earth in the morning
46:02
Speaker 1: at Breakfast Club
46:07
Speaker 3: MHM