Latest / WGKM / Podcasting 2.0 - Episode 275: "Off The Rails"

Transcript

Podcasting 2.0 - Episode 275: "Off The Rails" · WGKM

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  Podcasting 2.0 for October 16th, 2026, episode 275, Off the
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  Rails. Hello everybody, it's cold in Texas, but that doesn't
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  matter because it's time for the board meeting The official
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  podcasting 2.0 board meeting where we let you know what
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  we're up to And we also find out what we're
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  up to It's great We're kind of crazy that way.
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  However, we are the only board meeting that can flip
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  upside down from the halfpipe, that's for sure. I'm Adam
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  Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country,
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  and in Alabama, the man who is mentally exhausted from
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  chaperoning his robots. Say hello to my friend on the
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  other end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones! Why
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  you laughing? Why you laughing? Why you roughing? Why you
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  roughing? Why you roughing? Why you roughing? Don't roughing. Shut
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  up. Don't roughing. Shut up. Don't roughing. You're going to
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  have to play that clip so that at some point
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  people understand what the heck we're even referencing. Roughing. Let
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  me see if I have a roughing. I'm laughing because...
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  the uh what what are you like why are you
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  laughing man why are you laughing um the you know
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  that thing that i was showing you the last week
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  that was like looking up stuff for me in real
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  time based on the transcripts like yeah like the it's
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  my real time jamie yeah oh yeah that thing yes
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  yes yes Now, for some reason it says, Dave, I
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  don't even know what it's referencing. It says, Dave, that's
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  just AI agent scope creep. Oh, no. You ask it
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  to delete your junk mail, and next thing you know,
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  it's managing your 401k and your relationship with your mother-in-law.
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  Yeah. What does that even mean? Where did it get
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  that from? I have no idea what that means. It's
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  bad. I don't know. That doesn't sound right. Let me
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  see. What am I doing? What is it trying to
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  tell me? No, this is your running thing? That's what
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  this is? Yes. Yes, it's supposed to be like looking
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  up things that I say. If I make a reference,
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  just trying to figure out if like go look us
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  up something on the Internet and see, you know, because
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  if I say like Trump said so and so and
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  you're like, no, he didn't. It's supposed to be like,
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  here, go. Here's your fact check. Yeah. Oh, you know,
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  for some reason, AIFF doesn't play on the curry casser.
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  Well, that is bad. Eighth. Yeah, the don't rough is
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  an A.I.F.F. file. That's how old it is. Oh, weird.
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  Well, let's say, what is .A.I.F.F.? Isn't that audio instructions?
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  It's old. Features. It's very old. That's what that is.
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  Oh, I got that. That's a little neat. A new
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  version. gotta make a new version let me see where's
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  podcasting 2.0 there we go let me get it let
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  me get back into my folders here okay How are
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  you doing, Dave? How are you doing? I'm good. By
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  the way, excellent, excellent interview on Power. Oh, thank you.
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  Thank you. Yeah, you gave me... tons to think about.
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  It's interesting you say that because I don't typically listen
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  to my own interviews. I was there. I kind of
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  know what I said. But I was going to listen
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  to the... I listened to Pod News Weekly Review anyway,
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  even though there's this... This belief out there that I
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  only listen to the bits where I'm mentioned. Yes, this
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  is a belief. My robot did tell me, hey, you're
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  on the show. he was like wait what yeah that's
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  different uh so i wanted to hear how sam because
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  i know i know sam had to edit it and
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  he did a great job i only heard one edit
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  and like how could there it is i don't know
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  what he edited out um but that but i had
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  some observations as well why don't you go first Well,
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  um... I think I was already, you know, I've clearly
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  already been thinking about all of this stuff, but. It
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  was good to hear you sort of flesh out. One
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  second. It's okay. We're not live or anything. Sorry, I
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  dropped my package in the floor. But I was thinking
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  about this already, and... You had said last week that
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  You told me that you thought you were... Disappointed that
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  the conversation about the MCP interface went straight to Ad
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  removal. Yes. But missing the context of what You know,
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  you were talking like missing your full thinking. It was
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  not a criticism. It was I was mad at myself.
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  I'm like, I should have avoided that. Yeah, no, I'm
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  good. Yeah, I kind of picked up on that. But
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  I was it was good to hear you flesh all
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  that out. And I guess what – I guess what
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  I was thinking about this morning as I was listening
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  was – How the interfaces for podcast apps... I need
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  to – the problem here is these are like non-formed
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  thoughts. These are just like impressions, and I'm trying to
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  put words on them for the first time. I think
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  one thing I took away is that the podcast apps
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  – are going to have to allow you to do
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  more And let's let's for the moment, let's just put
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  the I said the podcast apps. Let's just kind of
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  put that to the side for a second. Whatever that
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  might be. The podcast apps are going to have to
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  let you actually do more with the content. And this
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  also fits into the advertising removal or whatever you want.
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  So – I, again, this is like with your theme
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  with Sam, a lot of this is like you have
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  a clear vision of what the future – of the
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  shape of the future. But you can't know specifics. We
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  just can't know. No, I'm just talking out of my
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  butt, obviously. This is just what I'm seeing. Yeah, you're
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  like, well, in the future, this is going to be
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  the case, but – Well, maybe this will help. Maybe
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  this will help. So the one thing, my takeaway actually
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  came after the interview and Sam and James were discussing
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  it. And there was this moment where it's like, well,
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  normal people won't do that. And you know how I
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  kind of. trip over the concept of normies or normal
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  people. Yeah, you shame me for using that word. Well,
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  and they kind of missed the whole point of what
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  I was saying. My whole point, not just about podcast
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  apps, and we have one too. So, you know, we're
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  in this, I'm thinking about this for us. is Where
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  will apps be at all? And so... Right now, I'm
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  finding my robot to be very, really helpful in telling
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  me why there's this episode of something I subscribe to
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  because it now keeps a subscription list as well. Why
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  I want to listen to this one, why it's right
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  up my alley, or why this completely, again, this is
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  the discovery part, right? This is just the engine is
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  running, and it's still giving me better offline with Ed
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  Zitron information. And without ads, even though I never asked
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  it to do that, but it just considers that to
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  be something that I want now. And I haven't told
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  it otherwise. It gave me a give me this suggestion
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  this morning. We just see if I can find this
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  real quick that I was surprised by because it was
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  it was a Dutch podcast. And I've never I don't
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  listen to any. Here it is. Daily rundown of the
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  biggest AI developments in Dutch. The latest episode covers a
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  Dutch provider using AI phone calls with no auto warning,
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  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so it just threw
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  that at me. I'm like, oh, it actually says here,
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  good Dutch listening practice ahead of January. I'm going to
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  Holland in January to visit our granddaughter. You need to
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  learn the language. And right in your AI skeptic wheelhouse,
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  said the robot. um that oh it's getting that from
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  zitron well it's it's it's getting it knows you listen
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  to better offline and so it thinks you're an ai
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  skeptic it knows a lot more about me it has
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  access to a lot more data sources so my point
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  is that it's already really good at recommending things for
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  me how how long does it take until i'm like
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  I really just want you to present it to me
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  right here. in you play it for me and it
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  already floats a player you know it can float images
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  above the chat window that's my point You know, just
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  like the school mom that all of a sudden built
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  an app for her that does only the things she
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  needs from some Adobe product. So that was my overall
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  point. And what I'm saying is normal people are going
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  to do this. This is built for normal people. And
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  I was like, can you just make it play better?
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  It will come up with ideas. And of course, it's
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  not going to be just a podcast. It could be
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  all kinds of different data sources. And what I'm really
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  kind of delighted about is that this solidifies RSS. And
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  all of our extra tags and all the metadata that
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  is flowing out through RSS feeds. That is the win
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  here. I mean, wow. Wherever you get your podcast, I
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  mean, my robot just plays it for me. I can
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  literally tell my robot, play this on my Sonos. This
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  podcast, I don't have to connect anything. It does all
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  that for me. And so when people think of what
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  crazy Adam's doing and, well, normal people won't do it.
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  Well, yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to say.
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  I mean, in one sense, like, Yeah, the phrase normal
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  people won't do that, we've heard that for a long
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  time. I mean, and sometimes that's true and sometimes that's
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  not. Well, I think it used to be true. I
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  think that's what's changing. Yeah, you can't always... You can't
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  always predict. What, you know, what, quote, normal people will
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  or will not do. And because there is no it's
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  not monolithic. I mean, everybody's different. And I know. I
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  know. In my own life, I need mental separation between
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  concerns. Like, I don't – Me too, brother. That's a
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  good statement. I need mental separation between concerns. Please stop
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  it, honey. I don't – I want – like, I
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  don't want to go to – here's – Some people
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  have a, quote, combined inbox where they have four email
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  accounts that all show up in the same thing. I
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  can't handle that. I know. I know. Never. Never will
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  I do that. Some people are like they you if
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  I tell them, no, I have to have separate, distinct
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  email inboxes that keep everything siloed into their own container.
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  They look at me like I'm nuts. No, I'm with
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  you. I'm with you. I wasn't like that, but I've
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  definitely become that way. And it's to help me keep
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  my sanity because I can't. I'm always afraid I'm going
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  to. Oh, I'm going to be here and I'm going
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  to respond from the wrong thing with this wrong account.
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  I don't trust myself. And so and I like that.
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  So I like having a podcast app. Mm-hmm. Where I
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  can – I'm in podcast mode. That's why I don't
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  – that's one of the reasons I don't use things
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  like Spotify that are like a super app that have
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  all these things they do that offer audiobooks and podcasts
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  and music and all this kind of – I go
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  – I like having myself visually locked – visually connected.
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  My visual environment is my mental environment. And so if
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  I'm visually in a podcast app, then I'm in listen-to-podcast
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  mode of thinking. Mm-hmm. And so I think that at
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  least for me, I really don't want to sort of
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  like mash all this stuff up into a big bowl
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  and let it spit things out to me. I don't
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  really feel comfortable in that world, but I don't know
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  that we necessarily have to go one extreme or the
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  other. You know, the thing about it is. And this
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  is kind of where I heard what you said, and
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  I'm thinking, okay, well, there is like a medium here.
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  There's like a midpoint where my podcast – I can
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  still have a podcast app. And My daily driver for
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  a long time, even though I check out new apps
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  all the time, but my daily driver forever has been
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  Cast-O-Matic. Well, maybe Cast-O-Matic just needs to give me more
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  control. And I actually think Franco's really good about doing
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  things like this with his app. Maybe it just needs
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  to give me more control. Like, basically, it becomes a
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  layer on top of... The agentic things that happen within
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  the world of podcasting. And so.
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  Maybe Castamatic hooks into the Podcast Index robot on the
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  backside, or maybe it hooks into your Muse agent on
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  the backside and lets Muse control it. Because, see, then
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  that way… You know, I told you last week I
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  was going to start building this ad removal specification. Yeah,
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  you didn't get around to it, though. There's no way
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  you had time to do that. No, I've been kicking
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  it. I've been sort of like – Right before I
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  leave from doing something else, I will flip over to
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  that agent and And then just like give it an
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  extra little hit and then I walk away. You're micro
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  dosing. I'm micro dosing. Yeah. I keep, I pop the
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  beach ball up in the air and then I come
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  back for it later to catch it. You're vibe coding
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  by micro dosing. Yes, I got it. I got it.
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  And I've actually gotten a very long way, a very
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  long way by doing this. Because that's one good thing
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  about running a local Quinn model. With a Pi agent,
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  it hardly ever asks you any questions. It just runs
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  for hours and days by itself without asking questions. And
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  so I've actually gotten very far. This may take this
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  may take a month or two. I don't know. Because
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  I'm not going to publish anything until it's exactly 100
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  percent reliable. And there is a specification for removing dynamic
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  ads from podcasts that do not. That faithfully never touch
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  the actual content. And that's the way that – and
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  I'm just not going to release any kind of half-assed
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  thing. So when – the day that it comes where
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  that thing can run through 75 podcasts and never make
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  a mistake, that's when I'll know it's ready. But –
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  So I've been doing this, and I thought, well, okay,
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  think about all the permutations of this. Think about a
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  person who wants to listen to the – okay. Let
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  me just – I'm going to ramble here for a
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  second, so just stop me if you need to –
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  if I'm running on – So, My irritation with something
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  like Better Offline is not really the ads themselves. It's
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  the fact that it just gives – it keeps giving
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  me ads that are completely – A, completely irrelevant to
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  my life. And B, repeat endlessly. So I've heard the
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  same ad, 30-second ad, for a local Indian tribe here
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  in Alabama. for weeks and it's it plays three or
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  four times per episode what is the pitch of this
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  indian tribe just want this is ad recall test do
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  you remember what the indian is it a casino is
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  it a it's the porch creek indians okay and what
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  alabama porch creek indians what do they want you to
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  buy Nothing. It's like brand uplift. That is annoying. Yeah,
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  it's like – I can tell you exactly – the
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  ad starts off with, what does it mean for a
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  nation to be successful? That's exactly what she says. Here
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  at the Porch Creek Indians, we blah, blah, blah, blah,
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  blah. It's crazy. And I'm like, what is the point
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  of this? Okay. Okay. I mean, and I've heard the
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  same ad for like some kind of eczema medication for
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  weeks now. And it's again, it's multiple times per episode.
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  And I think that this is the this is the
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  advertising irritation thing. So I'm sort of analyzing myself and
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  I'm saying it's not necessarily that there's ads because I
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  listen to other shows that have ads into them and
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  they don't irritate me nearly as much as this thing
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  does. So like I could listen to an episode of
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  accidental tech or whatever, and the ads are fine. I
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  mean, I just listen through it or whatever. Sometimes I
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  skip them. Sometimes I don't. It's not a big deal,
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  but this particular show and a few others are just
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  off the chain. So if my podcast app, If I
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  could just tell it something like, hey, this show is
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  giving me endlessly duplicate podcast ads – Please take them
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  out or take – please take out – or if
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  – while there's an ad playing, if it could tag
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  it and it could say – it could tag it
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  as Portsharek Indians and I could hit it and say,
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  hey, never play that ad again. Or, hey, I don't
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  want to hear any medication ads because I'm not in
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  the medication needs business right now. My health is fine.
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  I don't need GLP-1s. I'm good. If you could do
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  things like that within your podcast app – That's this
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  nice halfway point because you still have this podcast app
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  experience, but you don't have – but you are now
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  beginning to – like your app is giving you services
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  on top of the content that help to customize it
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  for you to make it more of an enjoyable listening
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  experience. For you, and that actually deepens your relationship with
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  the show you're listening to, because it's not that you're
• 20:41
  saying, take out all the ads, I never want to
• 20:44
  hear another ad again. Well, I mean, some people may
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  want that, and that's fine. That's fine. That's where –
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  the future is going to end up there. That's where
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  we're going to get to. But – But there's another
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  level of this that says, you know, I – I
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  really like this show, but... I'm not going to buy
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  lakefront property. That's not what I'm looking for. So please
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  don't ever let me hear this ad again. And if
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  you're able to do it, you don't have to feel
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  like you're suffering through this show's irrelevant ad load for
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  you. And so like – so this is why –
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  that's just one thing that's on my mind, an example
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  of a way that a podcast app could actually become
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  very relevant – To the future agentic world. And they
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  could eat and it can get its recommendations from your
• 21:43
  agents. Like if you have a muse or something like
• 21:46
  that, it can it could run out and say, hey,
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  hey, muse agent, Adams muse agent. So whenever you come
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  up with a good suggestion for a podcast he needs
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  to have, let me know so I can pop it
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  up and help and see if he wants to one-click
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  subscribe in Castamatic or Podcast Guru. I guess what I'm
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  saying is I don't think it has to be an
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  all or nothing. Either the future has no podcast apps
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  or everything stays the same. They're – There could be
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  a very – Oh, please. Uh-oh. Go away. There could
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  be a very fertile middle ground is what I'm saying.
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  And I think Sam was actually – I think that's
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  where maybe he was picking up on in the interview
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  was he was saying, okay, we need to build these
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  agents into our thing. The Kevin and Kelly thing he
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  was talking about. I think he's seeing that... But maybe
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  the agents don't necessarily have to be baked into your
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  product. Maybe your product can just speak to them. Okay.
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  So let me jump in. You have a buzz again
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  today. Move to Choco Love. It's only me hearing these
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  things, so don't worry about it, but I just hear
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  it. Oh, there you go. Fixed it. It's like the
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  Dutch media is trying to get a hold of me.
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  They heard you're coming. They heard you're listening to their
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  podcast. Well, I posted this picture of me on X.
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  with a t-shirt and the t-shirt says jesus is my
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  exit strategy okay and so i'm also opening a shopify
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  store as we speak so i can sell it there's
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  too many people who want it it was just ai
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  people anyway um i can't just just make your own
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  ai picture pretend you bought one um Yes, I will
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  agree. So the perfect example is my Sonos system. I'm
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  not having my robot play my playlist on my phone.
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  I want it to play on my on my Sonos
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  system. I'm, you know, I really don't, you know, yeah,
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  I can Chromecast and all that. But I'd really just
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  like to say, Robot pop-up West Wing most recent episode
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  on my TV. So I'm in complete agreement that that
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  is not necessary and maybe not always wanted. So I
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  think I was conflating two things. The first one is
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  I absolutely see a future without apps. Because people will
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  eventually, even normal people, will eventually realize the power of
• 24:28
  creating something that you just want and you want it
• 24:31
  to work a certain way. That may be more productivity,
• 24:35
  business. You know, I don't see a future for shopping
• 24:38
  apps, you know, for to-do lists or any of that.
• 24:42
  I think that that is the first thing people will
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  do is, oh, I wish I had a to do
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  list that worked like this. And it will just build
• 24:49
  it for you and whether you somehow can run it.
• 24:53
  And that, of course, is going to be the problem.
• 24:55
  You know, I don't think Apple or Google are going
• 24:57
  to give up their app stores very easily. But I've
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  already seen this power on my computer. And, you know,
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  now go look at what Microsoft is doing with a
• 25:07
  new Surface laptop with built in with an RTX Blackwell
• 25:11
  chip built in. And you're Satya Nadella saying, oh, look,
• 25:15
  I made an app, the one I wanted in here.
• 25:18
  And it just works and it runs on my window.
• 25:20
  So this is going to come. But experientially, I'm in
• 25:26
  agreement that you don't necessarily have to recreate the functions
• 25:32
  of, for example, Podcast Guru, my daily driver, and certainly
• 25:38
  not CarPlay. I have Android Auto. All that stuff. No,
• 25:43
  that's a pain in the butt to build that. It
• 25:46
  may get easier one day, but really, all the work
• 25:49
  is already done. I'm quite happy with it. Would I
• 25:52
  want it changed? Maybe. What you're talking about is a
• 25:56
  connector. And I've been through this path now with most
• 26:01
  of the robot agents. And you need to submit and
• 26:05
  there's all this stuff and, you know, that hopefully will
• 26:09
  get better. And who knows? Maybe there will be, you
• 26:12
  know, people will play favorites and there's going to be
• 26:15
  blocking, you know, so you can't connect to Amazon, but
• 26:18
  you can connect to Shopify. Why? Well, Shopify is smart.
• 26:23
  They want your agent to be looking for stuff and
• 26:25
  buying things for you, etc. So, yes, the connector you
• 26:32
  want is really, I would say, it's kind of twofold.
• 26:37
  You want people to be able to connect their robot
• 26:41
  to your app so the robot can then automatically use
• 26:45
  the index. Yeah. to the podcast index robot to do
• 26:52
  all the discovery stuff. Because again, we're talking about ads.
• 26:55
  I'm just going to refuse. I don't care. The exciting
• 26:59
  thing is that it's finding things for me based upon
• 27:02
  what it knows about me. My podcast app does not,
• 27:06
  will not, should not know everything about me. However, as
• 27:09
  an input device, To send signals back to my robot,
• 27:13
  highly relevant. And then for the general experience of how
• 27:18
  it works and, you know, when video pops, all that
• 27:21
  stuff is great. I love Podcast Guru for that. Yeah.
• 27:26
  So, yes, there there it's not even an interim step.
• 27:30
  It's a very valid step of a play out experience
• 27:34
  of a real world, you know, because the minute it
• 27:38
  goes away from text, almost you're pushing things, you're pushing
• 27:42
  audio through the air or Bluetooth signal or whatever. Yeah,
• 27:45
  I think that's relevant. Um, What you don't want, of
• 27:51
  course, is you don't want to have to bake in
• 27:54
  any AI stuff into your app. You know, no. Have
• 27:57
  people connect your app to their robot and give their
• 28:03
  robot the command. Here's where you search. Here's the pod
• 28:07
  ping fire hose. Here's all the things you can do.
• 28:11
  And then when you have something, send it back to
• 28:13
  me. Absolutely. And I think developers should be looking into
• 28:18
  that right away. Now, I was going to say, will
• 28:24
  it make them any more money? Highly doubtful. You know,
• 28:27
  I'm always looking for this. I'm always looking for how
• 28:30
  can we make money for the app developers? I'm not
• 28:35
  seeing it yet. No, I mean, I don't see that
• 28:39
  yet either, but... I mean, it's possible that there is
• 28:45
  – And... It's possible that you – if your app
• 28:51
  does this very well, that you could start by just
• 28:56
  – it gets very popular. It makes – you know,
• 29:02
  you just sell more of it. Yeah. And that's at
• 29:07
  least something. I mean, the – but if the future
• 29:12
  evolves into L402 and these kinds of things – then
• 29:17
  that's at least an easier path for the app to
• 29:21
  have a share of something. I don't know what that
• 29:23
  looks like. But let's be realistic. The podcast apps are
• 29:31
  never going to make a dime out of the stack
• 29:33
  of podcast industry money. Unless there's programmable money involved. As
• 29:39
  long as it's basically the same system that there is
• 29:43
  now of money changing hands through advertising revenues and contracts
• 29:47
  and all these kinds of things, it's never going to
• 29:49
  happen. They're never going to get a dime. So unless
• 29:52
  – if there is an intermediary layer – then...
• 30:00
  At least like I can I can imagine if we're
• 30:04
  in the future. And no agenda was still around. Let's
• 30:11
  just use this show, a better example. A few years
• 30:14
  from now, things have progressed agentically, and this show is
• 30:18
  still asking for donations. And there's some sort of programmable
• 30:23
  money involved where Cast-O-Matic – is has gone out and
• 30:28
  connected to a user's robot. And that user that user's
• 30:36
  robot suggests podcasting 2.0 that they've subscribed to the boardroom.
• 30:42
  And then we could somehow. Filter that back and then
• 30:47
  that user gives us a donation. We could filter that
• 30:50
  back through to Cast-O-Matic in some way. Yeah, by becoming
• 30:53
  a money transmitter? No, but I mean you see what
• 30:59
  I mean. Well, I mean it's a donate. We could
• 31:01
  donate back. It's like thank you for the traffic. Thank
• 31:05
  you for the – That's called being a money –
• 31:08
  yeah, there's – I'm sorry. There's actually rules about that.
• 31:13
  No, I mean no. What I'm saying is that user
• 31:15
  gives us a donation through PayPal, and our robot says,
• 31:20
  oh, this user came in through Castomatic. We're going to
• 31:23
  donate back to his PayPal. That's not a money transmitter.
• 31:26
  That's just donations. Okay. Okay. Um, You seem irritated by
• 31:33
  this. Irritated? Annoyed, I guess. No, no, no, not at
• 31:38
  all. I'm just saying that that's not programmable money. That's
• 31:42
  fees with PayPal. The... The obvious thing that's going to
• 31:51
  happen is – okay. It's not irritated. It's sadness. I'm
• 32:00
  making you perpetually sad. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry,
• 32:04
  brother. No. Why do you say that? No, I'm sad.
• 32:07
  I made you sad with my ad talk, and I'm
• 32:09
  making you sad. No, that was – well, that's not
• 32:12
  you. I'm sad that – I'm sad for the work
• 32:18
  that goes into apps. Because I just don't see the
• 32:22
  future of them. And I just don't want to lie
• 32:27
  about it and struggle to find a way where now
• 32:30
  we're donating back to apps. The future is because I've
• 32:36
  seen it. And I've been actually was working a little
• 32:40
  bit today. It's been a busy day to tell my
• 32:44
  robot when I'm when I'm when I want to send
• 32:47
  I want to send a boost to gram to this
• 32:50
  podcast just like we did on the last time just.
• 32:55
  Send, you know, take care of it. You know, don't
• 32:58
  worry about, you know, just look at all the payments
• 33:00
  and look at the percentages to send it to them.
• 33:02
  LNURL, fine. Keysend, fine. Just send it all. Just take
• 33:06
  care of it for me. It has to be direct
• 33:09
  from the user to the splits, to the end users.
• 33:14
  That's the beauty of it. We can't be an intermediary.
• 33:19
  I mean, we can, but that's just not what it's
• 33:22
  going to be. And I am worried that apps are
• 33:29
  going to get cut out of that again. So that's
• 33:35
  my sadness. My sadness is we have a constituency of
• 33:39
  podcasting 2.0 who pour their heart into developing great apps.
• 33:46
  And I have a hard time seeing if, you know,
• 33:48
  yes, I see what you're saying, but I'm just seeing
• 33:52
  people making their own apps. For everything. I mean, you
• 33:56
  know, we laugh about Adobe. Ha ha. Screw those guys.
• 34:00
  But it's the same problem. Yes. Let me... Let me
• 34:07
  do story time for a second. Oh, Dave, story time.
• 34:13
  You know what? You just brought a smile to my
• 34:14
  face. So, There was this – I'm trying to remember
• 34:26
  what year this was. Maybe 2000... Like... 14, 13, something
• 34:39
  like that, maybe. Yeah, that feels right. So I had
• 34:45
  this And maybe that's right. But anyway, I had this
• 34:49
  sort of career crisis. thing that happened. And what it
• 34:56
  was, was the, at the, at the time, Everything, you
• 35:01
  know, everything's moving to the cloud. And I had started
• 35:06
  my career in IT sysadmin at a large multi-state insurance
• 35:12
  brokerage headquartered here in Alabama. I had started in their
• 35:17
  IT department. In 1997, late 97. And so I had
• 35:27
  been in... Like on-prem hardware, software, you know, everybody had,
• 35:35
  you had the day, you had your, your, your quote,
• 35:37
  server room. This is the way all businesses work. You
• 35:41
  had a server room. And so then like long about
• 35:44
  2012, 2013 or something like that. Every – the, quote,
• 35:52
  move to the cloud was going gangbusters, and everybody was
• 35:57
  all in on your digital transformation journey or whatever they
• 36:03
  were calling it back then. And at first I sort
• 36:09
  of like ignored it and was like, well, this is
• 36:13
  not – I mean we'll adopt some cloud stuff when
• 36:15
  we need it and we won't when we don't and
• 36:17
  these kinds of things. And – but then there was
• 36:21
  like this – I don't know. I had this –
• 36:25
  Vision of the future. Where me as a sysadmin, where
• 36:30
  I was completely irrelevant because – The story I was
• 36:37
  being told every single day by the tech-oriented press and
• 36:43
  the financial press and everything was the cloud is the
• 36:46
  future. You don't need Joe. Yeah. Who needs a local
• 36:51
  IT guy anymore? And then Microsoft said maybe in 2014,
• 36:56
  2015 that they were going to – they had this
• 36:59
  big push where they were going to do – start
• 37:01
  doing support directly to small businesses. And the story around
• 37:05
  that was, well, who needs IT people anymore? Because –
• 37:12
  Who's better at managing Microsoft's products than Microsoft? Right. And
• 37:17
  there was this whole narrative that lasted for a decade
• 37:21
  of why IT people and sysadmins are just not going
• 37:24
  to – are just the future. You guys – you
• 37:27
  all need to go find like a different career path
• 37:30
  because we don't need you anymore. Nobody is running email
• 37:35
  servers on their system, so all you Exchange admins, y'all
• 37:39
  go get a different job. Learn woodworking. Learn to code.
• 37:45
  Yeah, exactly. Learn to code, things like that. And so
• 37:50
  I had this – I really had like a mini
• 37:52
  freakout for a couple of months. Like it sort of
• 37:56
  – it finally got into my head, and I'm like,
• 37:59
  my job's over. The future is like everybody's just –
• 38:06
  When businesses start, they're just going to launch a few
• 38:09
  servers in the cloud, subscribe to Office 365, and they're
• 38:13
  done, and I'm never going to be needed again. And
• 38:17
  that turned out to be completely not true. Right. And
• 38:20
  so – and now we – if anything, we have
• 38:23
  a shortage of IT people, and we have – we've
• 38:27
  had a chronic shortage of IT people for a long
• 38:30
  time because what really happened was things became hybrid. And
• 38:37
  – There's lots of reasons why local things run... There's
• 38:42
  lots of reasons to have a thing local, and then
• 38:45
  there's other reasons to have a thing in the cloud.
• 38:48
  And as soon as you split that, now you have
• 38:50
  complexity because now you have to have those two things
• 38:53
  talk to each other. But you don't want to give
• 38:56
  up this great thing over here that runs really well
• 38:58
  locally, and you don't want to give up your great
• 39:00
  thing over here that runs really well in the cloud
• 39:03
  locally. But they really do have to connect. And as
• 39:06
  soon as you have a system like that, you have
• 39:08
  to have a person who understands the way all this
• 39:10
  stuff works that can actually make it function properly and
• 39:14
  well and get the business running. And so I guess
• 39:17
  what I'm saying, like. I was panicking, starting thinking about
• 39:23
  other jobs, other careers. And – but I think what
• 39:27
  that taught me was that, like, the – it's not
• 39:30
  that these visions of the future are wrong. It's that
• 39:35
  they're incomplete. They just don't take all of the considerations
• 39:40
  of human nature into account. And while it is possible
• 39:44
  that there's going to be a future with like no
• 39:49
  podcast apps, um, I'm not so sure that – I
• 39:55
  just don't think it's very likely because I think what
• 39:59
  happens over time is it takes – there's this lag
• 40:03
  period where it takes – Time for people to understand
• 40:08
  their own use case for these things, for these technologies.
• 40:14
  And the podcast apps – The... Like I don't envision
• 40:21
  myself – I don't really want – to not to
• 40:27
  listen to podcasts in something other than a podcast app.
• 40:30
  But if my podcast app just stagnates and never changes,
• 40:34
  maybe something else in the future would entice me away
• 40:38
  from that mindset. But if my podcast app continues to
• 40:42
  give me more and more options – Going forward to
• 40:46
  where I can feel more in control and I can
• 40:49
  feel like I'm a part of this new thing that's
• 40:50
  happening. Then I don't really have – I don't feel
• 40:55
  a big pull to change. So, like, I think that...
• 41:01
  Whoa, whoa. That's my buzz. Yeah, your buzz is big.
• 41:04
  There you go. Oh. Oh. We got one of these
• 41:09
  days we'll find the source of this. I don't know
• 41:12
  what it is, but. So I think there's something like,
• 41:17
  you know, like, like, you know, Fountain and Podcast Guru
• 41:21
  and Castomatic and TrueFans, like, they, these are apps that,
• 41:27
  you know, are run by very, very smart people Who
• 41:33
  like to be on the cutting edge of things. And
• 41:36
  I think that they can integrate a lot of the
• 41:39
  things that we love about. About agentic capabilities into their
• 41:47
  app and that makes you want to go use the
• 41:49
  app. Um, So the reason I was talking about advertising
• 41:56
  so much is because I think it's such – it's
• 41:59
  this thorny issue. It's not that I think that is
• 42:03
  the main issue. It's that it's such a watershed-type in-your-face
• 42:11
  annoyance. And I went back – remember a few months
• 42:16
  ago I talked about – I brought up this idea
• 42:19
  of what if we could come up with some sort
• 42:21
  of protocol where anytime I download an episode, I could
• 42:26
  ping out to some service. I was talking about Daniel
• 42:29
  J. Lewis' Chapters API. I could ping out to his
• 42:32
  API, have it generate a chapter set for me and
• 42:36
  bring it back for this episode. And what it was
• 42:40
  doing, my idea was give the apps the ability –
• 42:45
  To augment the content content that I that it's getting
• 42:50
  on its on its app for my benefit. Well, this
• 42:53
  is valid. This is the this this is like that
• 42:57
  on steroids. I agree. I agree. And it's simple. It's
• 43:03
  simple to implement. You've got to become a connector in
• 43:07
  all of these rope, all these robots. which is not
• 43:12
  simple. It's like submitting to 10 app stores. It's a
• 43:18
  pain in the butt. And the process is, of course,
• 43:22
  managed by AI on the other end. So... But why
• 43:26
  can't – so you have a robot. You have a
• 43:30
  Muse agent. Why can't your Muse agent expose some sort
• 43:35
  of interface or post a file somewhere or something like
• 43:39
  that? As long as it's a standardized format, Castomatic can
• 43:44
  then go and just look at that. There's a setting
• 43:47
  in Castomatic that says, here's the URL of my agent.
• 43:53
  And Castomatic, every time it wakes up, it goes and
• 43:56
  checks with your agent and says, hey, give me a
• 43:59
  bunch of information to go on. Is there any new
• 44:01
  podcasts? No, you're right. But in robot land, that's called
• 44:05
  a connector. So you have to connect. It doesn't just
• 44:10
  mean I've done this like, oh, set up a cloud
• 44:14
  flare. Oh, okay. So it did a test for me
• 44:17
  on Cloudflare. Cloudflare, you can set up like a 10-minute
• 44:21
  website that just works for 10 minutes and then it
• 44:24
  goes away. And I did that for a couple hours
• 44:26
  and then it was like, oh, I can't do that
• 44:29
  anymore. So on your own system, no problem. But these
• 44:36
  cloud systems, these cloud-based systems like RockBot and Muse and
• 44:41
  more to come, you know, ChatGPT, funny enough, was the
• 44:45
  hardest. You know, it's like you got to upload your
• 44:48
  left testicle. Okay, here it is. It's hard to do
• 44:52
  over the Internet. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it has to be,
• 44:55
  I'm just saying, I'm just giving, I'm, I'm leapfrogging saying
• 44:58
  the process is
• 45:00
  You have to allow people to connect their robot to
• 45:03
  your app. That's it. What about this? And I'm thinking
• 45:07
  of ways to get around that. Okay. So what about
• 45:10
  your Muse agent just knows, here's an object storage URL.
• 45:17
  And I want you to always post the latest, your
• 45:20
  latest findings about podcasts. in this specific format to this
• 45:27
  url and then you just point castamatic at that url
• 45:30
  well i can try it i'm just saying that these
• 45:34
  these uh These robot companies, they're getting cautious with that.
• 45:42
  You know, if you want to access a website, it
• 45:45
  pops up a card now or always allow, you know,
• 45:49
  and that seems to pop up a lot. You know,
• 45:51
  even if you say always allow, well, this is a
• 45:53
  little different URL. OK, always. I'm just saying that the
• 45:57
  process I'm with you. Of course, technically, I can see
• 46:02
  it. The process is become a connector. Jump ahead, just
• 46:06
  become a connector. Once you're a connector, that's like Sonos,
• 46:11
  the same thing. You have to go into Sonos. You
• 46:14
  have to approve it. Then it connects. You have to
• 46:16
  build a little app on Sonos, developer. It's fairly simple.
• 46:20
  The robot walked me through it. But that's how it
• 46:23
  connects then. And then once that connection is made, it's
• 46:25
  good. There was no standard connection already allowed. So you
• 46:30
  still have to make that connection for these robots to
• 46:34
  actually do it properly. See, I thought that the whole
• 46:38
  point of the Muse thing was that it allowed you
• 46:42
  to do – It allowed more flexibility. So that you
• 46:48
  could tell it something like always post your latest podcast
• 46:53
  recommendations or whatever to a to this URL. And here's
• 46:58
  your object storage keys. possibly... Possibly. But, you know, remember,
• 47:06
  we want this to be done by, quote, normal people.
• 47:08
  And the way it works now is connect to my
• 47:11
  Gmail. OK, connect. And it says affirm, confirm with your
• 47:14
  Gmail confirmed. OK, do you want your calendar? Yes, confirm.
• 47:19
  This is the process. I'm just saying that's the process.
• 47:22
  It's not it's not horrible. But you have to go
• 47:25
  through it. Just like submitting to the App Store, you
• 47:28
  have to become a connector. And, you know, when one
• 47:32
  or two are there, everyone else will jump in and
• 47:35
  everyone will have a connector. I'm just saying that that's
• 47:37
  the process. Become a connector. Mm-hmm. And technically what you're
• 47:42
  saying is exactly the same thing, but it has to
• 47:45
  go through the – that's just what they call it.
• 47:47
  They call it a connector. If I look at –
• 47:49
  let me see. If I look at Muse, let me
• 47:52
  see. What do I have? Um... Uh, Where's my... my
• 48:02
  settings here, settings, okay. Connectors. There you go. And it
• 48:06
  has preset connectors. It has Google Drive, Instagram, WithThings, Gmail,
• 48:12
  Google Calendar, Plaid, That's what you want. You want Plaid.
• 48:17
  This is the perfect example. Castomatic is always the canary
• 48:22
  in the coal mine. That's why I keep coming back
• 48:24
  to it so often. It's because it has no back-end
• 48:26
  servers. It's purely an on-device app. I understand. So it
• 48:32
  can't be a connector because there's nothing to connect to.
• 48:36
  It has to do the connection. It has to connect
• 48:38
  back to the agent. Yeah. Yeah. And so if that's
• 48:42
  like, well, we podcast be something we describe. We can
• 48:46
  build that spec. We can we can become we already
• 48:49
  are a connector now. I mean, I don't see us
• 48:53
  pre selected here. You know, there's no let me see
• 48:57
  if we have podcast. Let's see. No connectors found. Yeah.
• 49:01
  So I am connected through Muse because it's just doing,
• 49:06
  you know, HTTP calls to the MCP server. So a
• 49:13
  podcast index could become a connector, a general connector, and
• 49:17
  you say, okay, select you know, select podcast gurus. So,
• 49:21
  like, people are still going to have to select something.
• 49:24
  See, it just doesn't fit. It doesn't. My idea doesn't
• 49:27
  work. No, your idea. Bingo. Your idea doesn't work because
• 49:33
  that's not the. I mean, it may in the future
• 49:36
  if everybody's. If everybody has their own robot and it
• 49:39
  does exactly what they tell them to do, but these
• 49:41
  guys, they're for a whole bunch of different reasons, are
• 49:44
  going to... You know, put gates up to make sure
• 49:47
  that you know what you're doing or they can warn
• 49:50
  you like, well, you're connecting to this thing, you know,
• 49:54
  you're connecting to to plaid. So, well, you know, that
• 49:57
  means that your robot can look at your bank account.
• 50:02
  You see my point? Well, I think you just –
• 50:06
  my problem though here is that you just described how
• 50:09
  your future vision doesn't materialize because you're saying that they're
• 50:14
  going to block everybody. No, no, no. And if Muse
• 50:20
  is – Go ahead. If Muse is – The way
• 50:24
  that you're envisioning future things to evolve so that normal,
• 50:29
  quote unquote, normal people begin to interact with things like
• 50:34
  podcasting through an agent. But if that agent makes them
• 50:38
  jump through a whole bunch of hoops to do anything
• 50:40
  like this, well, then that's what good is it? My
• 50:43
  future is where everybody has their own agent running on
• 50:46
  their own hardware and it does stuff and you're in
• 50:49
  total control. That's the future future. This interim step is
• 50:53
  where everybody has to go. And a lot of people
• 50:55
  might never leave this interim step. They may feel very
• 50:58
  comfortable renting an agent that runs in the cloud and
• 51:02
  it's not on their own device. We're already seeing with
• 51:05
  Microsoft, just as the first example, hybrid. So that's what
• 51:09
  they're saying is hybrid. We believe most of this stuff
• 51:12
  works. that you're going to do locally on your own
• 51:14
  computer it'll build literally i was just watching nadella say
• 51:18
  this you build your own apps the apps you want
• 51:21
  locally on your computer sometimes you need something from the
• 51:25
  cloud and otherwise it's running on your computer so i
• 51:28
  see that as the future i don't know how quickly
• 51:30
  that's going to come to handheld devices but in the
• 51:34
  meantime I'm just saying the connector is how you do
• 51:37
  it today. And this this see this idea is like
• 51:41
  I keep hearing this. It's like everybody's going to build
• 51:44
  be able to build their own apps, but you can't
• 51:47
  even upload a file to an object storage. Like, how
• 51:50
  is this? I'm trying to make sense out of these
• 51:53
  two narratives I'm being told. No, I'm talking about a
• 51:56
  future that isn't here for everybody right now. It's here
• 51:59
  for me. I'm building my own apps. But yeah, I'm
• 52:02
  not a normal person. But it's going to come. But
• 52:06
  today, right now, we are in baby shoes, training wheels.
• 52:14
  Nathan said Muse will either let normies listen directly in
• 52:17
  the app or it will host an RSS feed for
• 52:18
  them to listen wherever they want. See, I just don't
• 52:21
  think that's enough. I don't think that's enough. To me,
• 52:26
  it's like... But we're arguing over implementation as it is
• 52:30
  today, not over what is going to come. What's going
• 52:35
  to come is going to be a very different world.
• 52:37
  But today, if you want to get started, just add
• 52:41
  your app. as a connector and then you can tell
• 52:44
  that person's app the robot to go connect to the
• 52:49
  podcast index robot to do all the calls and then
• 52:52
  you have a two-way street With feedback from the app
• 52:56
  and stuff going to the app. I mean, it's exactly
• 52:59
  what you're saying. It's just. No, it has. But it's
• 53:01
  not. It is. It's not. It is exactly the same.
• 53:05
  False. Well, fact check false. What do you mean? It's
• 53:09
  because what I'm saying is I'm trying to say the
• 53:13
  full vision of what you are. What you fleshed out.
• 53:20
  The full vision of what you flashed was I have
• 53:25
  this thing that can do – that will do whatever
• 53:29
  I tell it to. There's this thing operating on my
• 53:35
  behalf where I can just go and tell it, hey,
• 53:39
  I like this kind of thing, and it just –
• 53:44
  gets it for me and does things for me and
• 53:46
  all these kinds. It's operating constantly in the background on
• 53:49
  my behalf. The podcast index MCP, as amazing as it
• 53:54
  is, it is not operating on Nathan's behalf. It is
• 53:59
  general. It's general. And what I'm saying is the only
• 54:03
  thing that's ever going to operate on Nathan's behalf is
• 54:05
  Nathan's robot. What do you mean? What do you mean?
• 54:09
  It's not the podcast index robot does nothing but proxy
• 54:15
  the API calls. My robot is doing what I want.
• 54:20
  Right, and yes, that's what I'm saying, but I'm saying
• 54:22
  in order for the app, the podcast app, to have
• 54:25
  the benefit, to have the power that it needs. That
• 54:30
  it needs to be able to connect to the robot.
• 54:32
  It needs to be able to connect – to nathan's
• 54:35
  robot not the podcast no but that's what i'm saying
• 54:38
  that's what a connector is you connect your robot to
• 54:41
  the app well and right but what i'm saying is
• 54:44
  there is no connector back to castomatic All Cast-O-Matic has
• 54:50
  to do is say, well, okay, because you mean because
• 54:53
  Cast-O-Matic, well, even that, I don't see why that's a
• 54:56
  problem. No, it is a problem because, okay, you're right,
• 55:01
  Cast-O-Matic, if there's no server side on the app itself,
• 55:06
  That... can talk to or can be talked to, I
• 55:10
  see the problem. Now, there's a possibility that... But this
• 55:18
  is OS level that the robot can interact with other
• 55:23
  apps, inter-app communication. That's already happening because it can read
• 55:28
  notifications. But that is another thing you have to set
• 55:32
  up. It's not out of the box and for good
• 55:36
  reason. So Castamatic is a is the outlier, but it
• 55:40
  is also the most important outlier. I understand what you're
• 55:44
  saying. But let's just stick for a second with Nathan
• 55:48
  needs to connect his app to his robot that can
• 55:53
  be done today. No matter no matter what else he
• 55:56
  connects to. You know, I'm done with the boardroom. Why?
• 56:01
  The boardroom is so full of crap. Why? This is
• 56:05
  AI 2.0. How about that funding tag? How's that coming
• 56:09
  along? It's all robot now. You know what? We've been
• 56:12
  talking about nothing but podcasting since we started this episode.
• 56:16
  That's all we have talked about. The future of podcast
• 56:18
  apps. This is fundamental. We're talking about potentially building a
• 56:25
  protocol that lets podcast apps talk to their agents. I
• 56:29
  mean, what else do you people want? I almost cussed.
• 56:34
  I'm not going to do it. It's because I'm flipping
• 56:39
  back over here to my to my my showrunner thing.
• 56:43
  Yeah. So I can so I can look up stuff
• 56:44
  on the Internet. Well, these are. But what you're seeing
• 56:48
  is people who are hurt and disillusioned and who hate
• 56:53
  A.I. because they also know what's coming. We're trying to
• 57:00
  find... Great solutions. And if you just want to say,
• 57:06
  oh, it's AI 2.0, well, check the calendar, dude. This
• 57:11
  is what's happening in the world. We are at the
• 57:14
  beginning of an amazing, amazing golden age where I believe
• 57:20
  people will have a lot of leverage and a lot
• 57:23
  of power. Time to grab land now. That's what's going
• 57:28
  on here. I mean, in case anyone hadn't noticed, the
• 57:33
  amount of independent app usage is going down rapidly. Why?
• 57:38
  Well, I don't know. But maybe we should try and
• 57:41
  offer something that other companies can't offer. Maybe we should
• 57:46
  just not ever talk about AI. And watch all of
• 57:49
  the independent podcast apps disappear off the face of the
• 57:53
  earth because of AI, and then we'll all just look
• 57:56
  at each other and wonder what happened. Or we could
• 58:00
  actually try to face the future as it stands, as
• 58:03
  it's coming, and build on top of it so that
• 58:08
  all this remains in some sense. It's no sweat off
• 58:13
  my balls. Johnny D. Straight from heaven. But this is
• 58:23
  my point. You can't laugh one day about what happened
• 58:25
  to Adobe and then not think about your own backyard,
• 58:28
  which includes Adam and Dave. Yes, it includes all of
• 58:34
  us. Yeah, it's all of us. And here we are
• 58:37
  talking about what we can actually do. Anyway, whatever. I'm
• 58:40
  useless. I was I was talking to a friend of
• 58:44
  mine this week who is has been a. a highly
• 58:49
  successful sales team. manager in the tech world for many,
• 58:57
  many years. This person has worked for every... Silicon Valley,
• 59:05
  big Silicon Valley name that you know. And they... At
• 59:13
  every... They just started working for a new company back
• 59:20
  in April and inherited a team of salespeople. And so
• 59:27
  – We were talking last night. And they were saying
• 59:32
  that the... The amount of stuff that they are replacing
• 59:39
  internally, they have stopped hiring out all kinds of consulting
• 59:47
  work. to like the big four consulting firms like Deloitte
• 59:51
  and all these kinds of things. This is all because
• 59:57
  they're doing it all with AI because they used to
• 59:59
  have
• 1:00:00
  All of this work that they could not process on
• 1:00:03
  their own, and it was more cost-efficient to just hire
• 1:00:07
  it out. And now they've brought it back in-house, and
• 1:00:11
  they're able to put a small team on it, and
• 1:00:15
  they're able to essentially do months of work in weeks.
• 1:00:19
  Mm-hmm. And because most of it is just compiling data
• 1:00:23
  and just moving data around. Well, this is I mean,
• 1:00:29
  we're talking about major economic shifts that are about to
• 1:00:35
  happen. If things are happening in the in the in
• 1:00:39
  the economy. Up in the billions of dollars range. Do
• 1:00:44
  we think that are we crazy enough to think that
• 1:00:47
  it's not going to affect podcast apps? Give me a
• 1:00:50
  break. Of course it is. Things are going to things
• 1:00:54
  are changing and they are going to change. And I
• 1:00:57
  just would rather I would rather actually I would rather
• 1:01:02
  meet it head on. And discuss it so that we
• 1:01:06
  can at least give podcast app developers the chance to
• 1:01:13
  adapt their apps in a way where people still find
• 1:01:17
  them very useful. Whatever we have to build to do
• 1:01:21
  that, we need to do it. Let's do it. You're
• 1:01:25
  the one that's getting mad, not me. I'm talking to
• 1:01:29
  the world. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to
• 1:01:32
  the world. I'm just saying that like this – because
• 1:01:36
  the thought of – Yeah, I want to do –
• 1:01:39
  of course. Let's do a phase nine of the namespace
• 1:01:42
  and let's throw the contact tag in. Let's fix key
• 1:01:44
  send. And I've got a few tags that I think
• 1:01:48
  are ready to go, and I want to do that
• 1:01:51
  work. Let me just say – let me remind us
• 1:01:55
  of something. We started Podcast Index for a reason, and
• 1:02:00
  it's going to turn out to be a great reason
• 1:02:03
  because RSS is going to be more important than ever
• 1:02:06
  with, in my opinion, with what is coming. Tags are
• 1:02:11
  going to be super important for what is coming. As
• 1:02:14
  I scoffed about AEO, the ask engine optimization is going
• 1:02:19
  to be a real thing. And so when robots are
• 1:02:23
  already running around and when they're looking for a certain
• 1:02:27
  person on the podcast and you've got a person tag,
• 1:02:30
  you're going to be found, which has always been my
• 1:02:33
  mission here is discovery, discovery, discovery, reasons to get to
• 1:02:37
  get things that I want to hear. Making that work
• 1:02:43
  is a part of the podcast app developers, which I
• 1:02:46
  still believe is very relevant, as I just said, you
• 1:02:49
  know, Sonos, television, podcast app, all of that. Stay ahead
• 1:02:55
  of the game. We're going to be great. We may
• 1:02:59
  have nobody who's going to donate to us anymore, but
• 1:03:02
  we'll be great. We'll have servers. We'll have servers. We
• 1:03:07
  can't pay for it, but we'll have servers. Well, hosting
• 1:03:10
  companies are going to be great. That's still going to
• 1:03:12
  be needed. It feels like we just pontificate about what
• 1:03:17
  could happen with AI. There's great things we can do
• 1:03:19
  with it now, so let's do them. I agree. I
• 1:03:20
  understand that, Eric. I think – but what – What
• 1:03:31
  did we do with the namespace? What did we all
• 1:03:33
  collectively do with the namespace? We got out ahead of
• 1:03:36
  things and created something that was brand new. We created
• 1:03:41
  a thing – we created micropayments and transcripts and all
• 1:03:45
  these things that had never existed before in podcasting. And
• 1:03:50
  that's what I'm saying we should do right now. I'm
• 1:03:53
  saying that we should do things like – here's another
• 1:03:55
  idea. that I had. Sam has been talking about for
• 1:04:01
  a long time About using activity streams and activity pubs.
• 1:04:07
  He has always wanted a future where podcast actions or
• 1:04:12
  activities are – where they ripple through the Fediverse. And
• 1:04:19
  what has always been the big wall that's kept that
• 1:04:24
  from happening is mastodon. Mastodon does not show custom activity
• 1:04:31
  streams or custom activity pub types. It doesn't show them
• 1:04:35
  up in their native format. It just sort of like
• 1:04:40
  transmogrifies them into a note is what it's called. So
• 1:04:45
  everything just becomes a note. Well, we have now this
• 1:04:52
  power. to perhaps change that. Yes. Maybe we can begin
• 1:04:59
  to roll out new Fediverse compatible software I built the
• 1:05:05
  AP, the Activity Pub Podcast Index Bridge a few years
• 1:05:09
  ago, the hard way by hand. I built that thing,
• 1:05:14
  and it works. Why don't we begin to actually publish
• 1:05:20
  some of these – why can't apps begin to actually
• 1:05:23
  publish some of this Activity Pub stuff? In its native
• 1:05:26
  format, and then we will build Mastodon-like software that layers
• 1:05:30
  on top of it and actually shows it in its
• 1:05:32
  native format. And what do we do with that? Well,
• 1:05:37
  I mean, that could be something that podcast platforms bake
• 1:05:42
  in or podcast apps bake into their stuff. They could
• 1:05:45
  subscribe. Cast-O-Matic, let's just keep rolling with Cast-O-Matic since it's
• 1:05:48
  the canary in the coal mine. Cast-O-Matic could bake ActivityPub
• 1:05:53
  into itself where it shows native content. native format activity
• 1:05:59
  streams coming out of podcasting. into in its own interface
• 1:06:04
  so one of the things you said in sam's i'm
• 1:06:06
  sorry i'm talking so much i just you gave me
• 1:06:09
  a lot of ideas no keep going i like it
• 1:06:11
  one of the things you said in your uh In
• 1:06:15
  your interview with Sam is that newsletters are so critically
• 1:06:19
  important to donations for podcasts and keeping people interested. That's
• 1:06:23
  one sub stack. That's why they're on a roll. And...
• 1:06:28
  Maybe your podcast app If the if, you know, people
• 1:06:33
  are getting email fatigue and people are beginning to filter
• 1:06:37
  out a lot of these things in emails, which I'm
• 1:06:39
  doing, I've really I've really gotten a handle on my
• 1:06:42
  email and filtering out a ton of stuff now. Maybe
• 1:06:45
  the podcast app becomes a – Sort of more than
• 1:06:50
  just a podcast, but a news feed into your pod
• 1:06:53
  into the podcast world that you are interested in. And
• 1:06:57
  so that your newsletter is not just coming through your
• 1:07:00
  email where it's going to land in your spam box.
• 1:07:02
  It's also good that maybe your newsletter comes through your
• 1:07:04
  podcast app. I mean, true fans does that already. But
• 1:07:07
  but if we had the activity pub section of that,
• 1:07:11
  it could be posted as an act as as a
• 1:07:14
  map as an activity pub. Yeah. Object on the Fediverse
• 1:07:19
  and you're following your podcast as an activity pub actor.
• 1:07:23
  And now you get the the the the newsletter as
• 1:07:27
  well. I'm just brainstorming stuff. Mm hmm. I'm brainstorming ways
• 1:07:32
  that podcast apps can keep themselves relevant because, like you
• 1:07:38
  said, they are podcast, independent podcast app usage is declining.
• 1:07:43
  Yeah. So whether or not AI is the future, regardless
• 1:07:48
  of that, something's wrong and something needs to change. So
• 1:07:53
  we got things that are – we have things that
• 1:07:57
  are more – what I'm saying is I think we
• 1:07:59
  have things that are more structural right now than just
• 1:08:02
  namespace design. Because namespaces are great, but if we already
• 1:08:10
  have – Some ability, and we do, new phones have
• 1:08:15
  models on board that can hook in and do some
• 1:08:18
  small model type stuff already. If they can themselves begin
• 1:08:24
  to figure out these things like – Yeah, what the
• 1:08:27
  activity is and what that means for your behavior. For
• 1:08:31
  what you want and what you... So, for instance, if
• 1:08:35
  I skip ahead on all those ads... Yes. My robot
• 1:08:44
  would know to do that automatically. Or... If the and
• 1:08:50
  this is, again, why I'm saying that the podcast namespace
• 1:08:55
  may not be. As high on the priority list right
• 1:09:00
  now as this other stuff is if your podcast app
• 1:09:03
  sees that there is not a person tag listed in
• 1:09:06
  your feed, but it can still use its local model
• 1:09:09
  to go figure out who these people are. It doesn't
• 1:09:13
  matter anymore. We already saw this with transcripts. Transcripts are
• 1:09:17
  being done on device now. Yep. It's great that there's
• 1:09:21
  a transcript tag, but it's now become almost irrelevant. Look
• 1:09:25
  at how fast that went. Yeah, it went from –
• 1:09:28
  within a year, it went from transcript tag is awesome
• 1:09:31
  to transcript tag is completely unnecessary. Mm-hmm. That's right. And
• 1:09:37
  the only people that care to put a transcript tag
• 1:09:40
  in their feed by hand anymore are going to be
• 1:09:43
  like the .00001% of people who still code by hand.
• 1:09:48
  Yes, not normal people. Yeah. And so like I'm saying
• 1:09:51
  – yeah, exactly. What I'm saying is like we need
• 1:09:54
  to figure out what the future looks like. Not the
• 1:09:57
  future. Sorry. I'm sorry. We need to figure out what
• 1:10:00
  right now looks like. for podcast, indie podcast apps to
• 1:10:04
  try to get some traction back and make these things
• 1:10:07
  better. Because the other flip side to this is the
• 1:10:10
  big apps, they're not doing very much either. Spotify's not
• 1:10:14
  doing anything in that regard. And the beauty of us,
• 1:10:17
  collectively, is that What we do with the podcast index
• 1:10:23
  and how we tie into all of that, we do
• 1:10:26
  for all apps. Apple can't do that. Well, I mean,
• 1:10:30
  technically they can. They're not going to. They're always going
• 1:10:33
  to promote their app. Always. Forever. They're always going to
• 1:10:37
  promote Apple TV. Forever. That's their system. That's how they
• 1:10:42
  live. So we can promote for everybody and make it
• 1:10:46
  work for everybody and bring that a huge leap forward,
• 1:10:50
  I think. But be careful because Apple is going to
• 1:10:55
  tie in their local AI models to their devices, and
• 1:10:58
  they're going to give it all kinds of priority, and
• 1:11:00
  then we'll sue them for 10 years, and then we'll
• 1:11:02
  get access to it. So you might as well hook
• 1:11:05
  your people in now. I apologize up front. I'm sure
• 1:11:11
  Sam is half a bottle in and boosting away. I
• 1:11:16
  thought that if I upgraded my Start9 StartOS embassy server
• 1:11:22
  to 4.0, which I was quite excited about because it
• 1:11:26
  includes networking, I thought, well, I can do that in
• 1:11:29
  the morning, which I did. I didn't realize that it
• 1:11:32
  has to go through completely changing the entire file system.
• 1:11:37
  And I'm just now booting up LND server, which is
• 1:11:40
  taking quite a while. So I'm not getting any booster
• 1:11:44
  grams of anything. Oh, well, I mean, I got our
• 1:11:49
  I got I'll get as many boosts as I can.
• 1:11:51
  OK. I don't know. Where's the stupid bus? It's a
• 1:11:56
  USB cable somewhere near your mic cable. Something is near
• 1:11:59
  your mic cable, and it sounds like USB. It never...
• 1:12:04
  stays on long enough for me to actually trace it.
• 1:12:06
  Because the minute you move... I get the roadcaster up
• 1:12:07
  and wave it around in the air and it doesn't
• 1:12:09
  change anything. No, it's something with your mic cable. Your
• 1:12:13
  mic cable is running next to a dimmer or a
• 1:12:16
  USB or LMNOP. It's doing... My mic cable is running
• 1:12:20
  through every electronic. Yeah, well, there it is. There it
• 1:12:23
  is. There's nothing it's not touching. Nailed it. I mean,
• 1:12:28
  it is literally touching everything in this room, I think.
• 1:12:35
  Open UI. Oh, okay. Did this work? Let me see.
• 1:12:41
  Is my Albie hub back up? Oh, LND, not waiting
• 1:12:46
  to start. RPC servers is not available yet. I got
• 1:12:50
  you. Okay. Well, that sucks. Why is it taking L&D
• 1:12:55
  so long to start up? Well, it's not the podcast
• 1:13:00
  index node, so it should be quicker. Mm-hmm. I don't
• 1:13:04
  know what it's doing. I have no idea. Why log?
• 1:13:09
  Oh, logs. Whoa! Whoa! What do I see in here?
• 1:13:14
  Waiting to start. RPC service is not available. Why is
• 1:13:16
  it not available? Oh, it had to migrate the SQL
• 1:13:21
  schema to version 1. Six? Oh my gosh. That sounds
• 1:13:27
  fun. No, that sounds bad. That was very bad. Okay.
• 1:13:34
  The... Have you heard... Have you heard the Dick and
• 1:13:39
  Paul show? No, can't say that I have. It's pretty
• 1:13:43
  good. The Dick and Paul show? Oh, man, this is
• 1:13:46
  really bad, Dave. What am I doing? Okay. Let's see.
• 1:13:53
  Okay. oh my gosh i got turned the i'm gonna
• 1:13:58
  turn the noise gate off for this this is too
• 1:14:01
  fun oh it went away don't move it's because i
• 1:14:04
  muted myself so okay so now we know it's definitely
• 1:14:08
  the mic it's the mic yeah so if i mute
• 1:14:11
  myself it's the mic yeah of course Wait, is it?
• 1:14:21
  Let me unplug the mic again. I'm plugging the mic.
• 1:14:25
  Yeah. Well. What is going on? What is this happening?
• 1:14:36
  Now it won't stop. And I'm blinding myself because the
• 1:14:40
  lampshade fell off the lamp. Okay. Now it stopped again.
• 1:14:44
  Oh, my gosh. Okay. Okay. Ah! We're off the rails!
• 1:14:52
  Okay, alright. I'm back. The lamp kept self-destructing. I don't
• 1:14:57
  know what's going on. Okay, I'll have to.
• 1:15:00
  I'm going to have to reroute this mic cable or
• 1:15:03
  something after the show. That's the problem. That's the problem.
• 1:15:06
  The Dick and Paul show, do you remember Dick Costolo?
• 1:15:10
  Yeah. The Twitter CEO. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes.
• 1:15:16
  After he was the first guy after Dorsey, wasn't he?
• 1:15:19
  Yeah, that dude is funny. Oh, really? Yeah, so it's
• 1:15:22
  him and this guy named Paul Kudrowski, who's an economist.
• 1:15:26
  And the show is them just roasting people. stuff all
• 1:15:29
  the time about Silicon Valley and that kind of thing.
• 1:15:32
  It's worth a listen. Okay. I'd like to stick it
• 1:15:34
  in our pod roll. I'll check this for a second.
• 1:15:37
  I'd like to just cram that one right in the
• 1:15:38
  old pod roll. Subscribe to the Dick and Paul Show
• 1:15:40
  podcast. Boom, done. Didn't even have to think about it.
• 1:15:44
  Sorry. Didn't have to search or anything. I, um, Let's
• 1:15:51
  see. So I probably don't have much time left, but
• 1:15:56
  – I think what I've been saying – so Christopher
• 1:16:01
  Issen, the Swedish trickler, has been doing a lot of
• 1:16:06
  curation work on the index. Yes. He is nuking feeds
• 1:16:14
  at an astonishing rate. He is a good man. He
• 1:16:17
  is a good man. Yes. He's doing the Lord's work
• 1:16:19
  there. Yes. He has scripts doing all sorts of important
• 1:16:25
  things. And so – I guess my question is, are
• 1:16:32
  we doing enough? for the podcast ecosystem with this, with
• 1:16:39
  how like we, we, I would like to let people
• 1:16:44
  know because I sent a whole batch of feeds to
• 1:16:48
  Podbean this week. I mean, these are just egregious spam
• 1:16:52
  feeds. That were like, you know, just like full movie
• 1:16:59
  downloads of Blu-ray. Yes. How is he? How is he?
• 1:17:05
  Is he searching for those? Or how does he do
• 1:17:06
  it? Is he watching the fire hose? I don't know.
• 1:17:13
  I think he sent me. I have not checked my
• 1:17:15
  signal yet, but I think he sent me some details.
• 1:17:18
  I got to go check them. I'm going to check
• 1:17:20
  the PP monitor. I'm still upright. I'm still on this
• 1:17:22
  thing. Oh, yeah. Curry compound. I'm still. Yeah, I'm still
• 1:17:28
  a participant. OK, good. Yeah, you're in the you're in
• 1:17:31
  the mesh. Yeah. Warm embrace. I am. I'm moving around
• 1:17:34
  in that mesh. Very cool. Well, I'm going to be.
• 1:17:40
  I got news coming on the PP on the on
• 1:17:43
  the pod, the pod ping front. Hopefully by the next
• 1:17:48
  show, I will be... Publishing some different – some things
• 1:17:52
  on a – it will not be on the main
• 1:17:54
  Podping topic, a gossip topic, but it will be on
• 1:17:58
  a side topic. So that you can, you'll be able
• 1:18:03
  to subscribe to some stuff that is index specific. So
• 1:18:07
  I will have more to reveal. Oh, revealing stuff. More
• 1:18:13
  to come. I like it. I like it. Yep. So
• 1:18:17
  that will be... Chad F. had a really... sweet post
• 1:18:23
  on Twitter. Mastodon, he was like, you know, I wish
• 1:18:27
  we could help Dave more. Um, it's coming, Chad. I'm
• 1:18:30
  going to help. I don't want anybody to think of
• 1:18:32
  this as helping me. It's more just, uh... A lot
• 1:18:37
  of the things I'm doing right now are the building
• 1:18:40
  blocks for how this will become the work that we
• 1:18:43
  all do. So it's not going to be helping a
• 1:18:46
  certain person or whatever. But I'm really grateful for the
• 1:18:50
  people who do help, like Christopher and Chad and Eric
• 1:18:55
  and David Marzal. Oh, he does a ton of stuff.
• 1:19:00
  Nathan. I mean, just everybody who pitches in and does
• 1:19:05
  things. I'm very appreciative for everybody. But hopefully what... In
• 1:19:12
  the next few months, this will will be able to
• 1:19:15
  put the stuff in place so that everybody can so
• 1:19:18
  we can just all do this together. So we don't
• 1:19:21
  have to like there won't be one person running the
• 1:19:23
  whole ship and then everybody has to help that person
• 1:19:26
  because we don't want that. Right. The case. Right. So
• 1:19:29
  if we can distribute it. But I'll have I'll I'll
• 1:19:32
  lay that out more next week. And but but in
• 1:19:34
  the meantime, like and that the spam topic is part
• 1:19:37
  of that is why I brought it up. I'd like
• 1:19:40
  to push things. You know, Chris is doing all that
• 1:19:43
  work. But then can we do more? I mean, is
• 1:19:46
  there a way we can distribute this so that. Like,
• 1:19:49
  can we get an efficient system for how to label
• 1:19:52
  spam and then report that back to the hosting company?
• 1:19:56
  I want everybody to be thinking about this because we
• 1:20:01
  don't just care about podcast apps. We also care about
• 1:20:04
  the podcast ecosystem as a whole. It doesn't help anybody
• 1:20:08
  in the podcasting 2.0 or podcasting in general if Podbean
• 1:20:14
  has 500 spam feeds on their system. Are they the
• 1:20:18
  worst offender? No, no, not by any means. But it's
• 1:20:23
  really spread. It's really equally spread across the whole system.
• 1:20:29
  I just wonder if anybody has any bright ideas about
• 1:20:31
  how we can make that – We have that information.
• 1:20:35
  We see that it's spam. It takes us a while
• 1:20:38
  to recognize it as such. But... You know, I don't
• 1:20:43
  know, Eric, maybe you talk about like Jev or something
• 1:20:46
  like that. I don't know if anybody wants to code
• 1:20:48
  something like that up. Let's let's try to figure out.
• 1:20:51
  Well, I can help. I'm going to have a lot
• 1:20:53
  more time on my hands end of the month. You
• 1:20:55
  want to say a quick you got anything to say
• 1:20:57
  about that? I mean, like I heard I heard that
• 1:21:00
  you were ending at the end of the month. 29th.
• 1:21:04
  One show after the 19th anniversary. Okay. Yeah. End of
• 1:21:09
  an era. end of an era i totally understand i
• 1:21:13
  totally understand where you're coming from i mean if i
• 1:21:16
  mean if something happened to you i mean i wouldn't
• 1:21:18
  be doing this show with anybody else i mean the
• 1:21:21
  show is the people oh if you're gone right away
• 1:21:24
  i got eric pp in here in a heartbeat that
• 1:21:27
  mother Are you still there? Yeah. Oh, I thought you
• 1:21:36
  left. I got so angry I stormed out. Rage quit.
• 1:21:41
  Yeah. Yeah, it was time. It's time. It makes sense.
• 1:21:47
  Yeah. It makes sense. We got customers with needs now
• 1:21:50
  at Godcaster. uh yeah we do yes we do they
• 1:21:55
  got needs man i was like okay yeah i'm meeting
• 1:21:59
  with people like they got needs okay we can do
• 1:22:02
  that for you yeah one day one day we need
• 1:22:05
  to like we build a lot of stuff in godcaster
• 1:22:09
  that i think other people would be interested in and
• 1:22:13
  uh That's really cool, but we never talk about it
• 1:22:16
  here because it doesn't feel appropriate. But one day we
• 1:22:19
  should just talk about it because I think people would
• 1:22:21
  find it pretty neat. Like the fractional program director and
• 1:22:26
  all that stuff. That stuff's cool, man. Yeah. It's going
• 1:22:30
  to be interesting times. Paul's coming in town Sunday. He's
• 1:22:35
  coming through Birmingham. Me and him are going to eat
• 1:22:36
  some supper. Oh, that's cool. So I can't find... Oh,
• 1:22:41
  I see. It's the what's the name of the show?
• 1:22:44
  The Dick and Paul show. The Dick and Paul show.
• 1:22:49
  Dick Costolo said that he... He had to name it
• 1:22:52
  something different on YouTube because YouTube rejected his name. Because
• 1:22:57
  I had just yelled at the robot and said, and
• 1:23:02
  it transmorgified it to subscribe to the Deacon Paul show.
• 1:23:06
  I'm like, no, no. I'm like, what is this? So
• 1:23:09
  now it's hearing me differently. Oh, no. It's Curry yelling
• 1:23:13
  at me. What kind of religious language is he using?
• 1:23:15
  Dick must be deacon. This, by the way, this Liquid
• 1:23:21
  Studios thing... This is the dumbest thing. Well, this is
• 1:23:27
  the stuff that you can do at home. I mean,
• 1:23:30
  please. Yeah, okay, I got it. I'm not believing for
• 1:23:34
  one second. Did they build that entire Inception Point AI
• 1:23:39
  just as a proof of concept to really go and
• 1:23:42
  build a video converter? No. Give me a break. No,
• 1:23:46
  not at all. This is a VC pivot is what
• 1:23:49
  this is if I've ever seen one. Big time. Yeah.
• 1:23:53
  Whatever. Yeah, I don't care. That's exactly the kind of
• 1:23:57
  stuff. You can say, oh, turn this podcast into video
• 1:24:00
  and just assemble some stuff. My thing here at home
• 1:24:03
  will do it, run it on the Asus. Okay. I
• 1:24:08
  promise you we built 25,000 synthetic feeds on Spreaker getting
• 1:24:12
  ad revenue, but it really wasn't the point. No, it
• 1:24:15
  was – We really just wanted to build a video
• 1:24:17
  converter. So now we can have a video version of
• 1:24:21
  PodNews. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Which, of course – Blow that
• 1:24:26
  smoke somewhere else. Nobody watches. We need to thank some
• 1:24:29
  people. Is it that time already? What time are we?
• 1:24:33
  Oh, my goodness. Yes. Well, I have nothing. I have.
• 1:24:35
  I'm sorry. I'm looking at. Let me take a look
• 1:24:38
  at my where I'm at right now. Oh, OK. So
• 1:24:42
  L&D is running. Mm hmm. But of course, I lost
• 1:24:47
  all my channels because it was down so long. And
• 1:24:51
  AlbiHub is running. That's good. Hold on. and helipad is
• 1:24:59
  running i think hold on let me just check for
• 1:25:01
  a second do i have any channels left there's my
• 1:25:03
  channels let me channel wallet node node yes no i
• 1:25:08
  got a pew pew i got a node pew pew
• 1:25:11
  pew came back amazing So you're back in business. Who
• 1:25:17
  runs Pew Pew? Who runs Pew Pew Pew? I think
• 1:25:22
  it is. Well, thank you very much. I mean, that
• 1:25:25
  thing came back. That's astounding. Now let me take a
• 1:25:29
  helipad. Task required. What? Set reset password. Okay, hold on.
• 1:25:38
  Uh... Oh, brother. Okay, I'll need that password really to
• 1:25:44
  log into Helipad. Okay, let's see if I got it.
• 1:25:50
  Maybe I got something in. Maybe it worked. Hold on.
• 1:25:53
  Let's check it. Check it. I'm checking it. Here we
• 1:25:56
  go. Password. Stay logged in for 30 days, which we
• 1:25:59
  know never works. Now I'm. Ooh. But it's somehow it's
• 1:26:07
  oh, there we go. Oh, is it going to now
• 1:26:09
  fill up the I literally am getting 29th of May,
• 1:26:13
  30th of May. Oh, bro. This is going to pew
• 1:26:16
  all the way through to October. Now, are you just
• 1:26:20
  going to get a machine gun of pew? That's that's
• 1:26:23
  exactly what's happening. I don't hear any sound for some
• 1:26:26
  reason, but. Yeah, it's now it's it's now it's a
• 1:26:29
  June. Oh, June 2023. Okay, well, we'll let that Lord,
• 1:26:34
  we'll let that sit for I guess it didn't migrate
• 1:26:38
  the, I don't know, helipad, air PP, what is repopulating?
• 1:26:42
  Yeah, that'll take quite a while for that to repopulate.
• 1:26:47
  All right. You got to read them, Dave. I'm just
• 1:26:51
  trying to get my buzz to go. No, the buzz
• 1:26:54
  is, you know what? We're just going to live with
• 1:26:56
  the buzz. We're just going to love the buzz. Wait,
• 1:26:59
  maybe I found it. I may have found it. No.
• 1:27:03
  I know you still hear it, but it's much less
• 1:27:05
  than it was. No. It was blowing your head off.
• 1:27:09
  No, it's pretty much the same. No, well, I could
• 1:27:12
  hear it, but I don't know. It's back. Okay, all
• 1:27:15
  right. I'm going to reroute the cable, I promise. Oh,
• 1:27:17
  it's okay. It's fine. I'm happy. Let's see. What am
• 1:27:21
  I doing? Oh, yeah. Oh, PayPal. Yeah, okay. PayPal. PayPal.
• 1:27:26
  We got Timothy Voice, $10. Thank you, Timothy. Thanks, Timothy.
• 1:27:30
  Michael Hall, $5.50. Gene Liverman, $5. Thank you, Gene. Todd
• 1:27:36
  Cochran, straight from heaven, $30. Thank you, Todd. Jeremy Gerds,
• 1:27:42
  $5. Derek J. Visker, $21. Thank you. Best name in
• 1:27:48
  podcasting. Paul Saltzman, $22.22. Thank you, Paul. Silicon Florist, $10.
• 1:27:54
  Thank you. Christopher Cowan, Thanks, Chris. $5. Terry Keller, $5.
• 1:28:01
  Damon Kasajak, $15. And Chris Riedel, $5. $20. Thank you.
• 1:28:08
  Thank you all very much. This makes a difference. You
• 1:28:11
  keep machines running with that. Now that we've integrated our
• 1:28:15
  Linodes, like I'm an admin on yours, you're an admin
• 1:28:20
  on mine, which is why we get all those emails.
• 1:28:25
  So the other day I was... I was looking in
• 1:28:27
  a different email box. I'm like, holy crap. Why do
• 1:28:31
  I have to pay $800 to Linode? Okay. surprise like
• 1:28:37
  what is going on what happened i'm sweating i'm like
• 1:28:41
  where does this come from something's going awry my agent
• 1:28:44
  has set up something i don't know what's going on
• 1:28:47
  you've pushed 400 terabytes of data this month oh it's
• 1:28:52
  podcast index oh okay Got it. What is our spend
• 1:28:57
  right now? I think it's about, it's close to nine,
• 1:28:59
  right? It's up there, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. And
• 1:29:03
  that's without, you know, the podcast index.social is 200 something.
• 1:29:09
  Is it $200 now? Yeah. Well, unless you want me
• 1:29:14
  to start deleting the database, you're paying for database and
• 1:29:20
  for searchability. People do like to search, and otherwise old
• 1:29:24
  messages go away. Is that a big deal? I mean,
• 1:29:28
  how old? That just seems like a lot of money
• 1:29:33
  to pay for a month. Well, we can have a
• 1:29:38
  meeting. Okay. I mean, $200? Yikes. And you're paying for
• 1:29:45
  that out of your own pocket? No, no, no. We
• 1:29:47
  switched that. We switched that. Okay. We switched it. I
• 1:29:51
  feel like we could bring that down. Well, you know...
• 1:29:58
  It all depends on how many
• 1:30:00
  what kind of history you want to keep. I mean,
• 1:30:03
  I don't feel like... You're preserving... something for future generations
• 1:30:10
  to see how this stuff came about. It's not yet
• 1:30:14
  on GitHub. Does that even matter? Because people are going
• 1:30:18
  to make it up anyway. Because the history of how
• 1:30:22
  podcasting came about is perfectly preserved. But people say Adam
• 1:30:26
  Carolla did it. Yeah. Well, where is it perfectly preserved?
• 1:30:31
  On scripting.com or something. Yeah, exactly. He only has no
• 1:30:36
  HTTPS, so he's no longer future-proof. No one can see
• 1:30:41
  the history. Yeah, it's perfectly preserved for people who use
• 1:30:45
  the Lynx browser in the terminal. Oh, yeah, there's Daniel
• 1:30:49
  J. Lewis. Yeah, we'll move to Slack. There you go.
• 1:30:52
  No. Discord. Discord. No, I think podcast index.social is part
• 1:30:58
  of the success. It's part of the formula. It's been
• 1:31:01
  fantastic. Anyway, it was stuff to talk about. Stuff to
• 1:31:05
  talk about. Yeah, we'll have to have a meeting. True
• 1:31:08
  Fans Anonymous stuff, 39 sats, 406 sats, 13 sats, 220
• 1:31:13
  sats, 7 sats, 406, 13. Thank you, True Fans Anonymous
• 1:31:18
  people. Drev Scott, 774 sats. He says... Anyone else notice
• 1:31:24
  the Podfriend V3 test flight drop this week? Oh, I
• 1:31:28
  don't have the test flight. I don't have Apple stuff.
• 1:31:34
  Boost. I'm checking. I'm checking to see if I have
• 1:31:40
  it. Test. I've got too many things in TestFlight. I
• 1:31:44
  got Buzzsprout stuff. I got Godcaster stuff. I got I'm
• 1:31:49
  off the chain. Got a podcast guru. I got Overcast,
• 1:31:52
  Castomatic. Oh, there it is. Podfriend. Yes. V3, V3, V3.
• 1:31:57
  All right. I'm checking it out. Yep. I got V3.
• 1:32:01
  Let's see. What is what is old Martin say? Okay.
• 1:32:05
  Cross device resume playback position from another device is no
• 1:32:08
  longer dropped. New episode notifications podcast with two RSS sources
• 1:32:14
  now merge. Don't know what that means. Search is more
• 1:32:17
  resilient when the podcast director is rate limiting and podcast
• 1:32:21
  owners duplicate listings now hide. All right. I'll give it
• 1:32:25
  a shot. Jody at Fountain.fm. 3,154 sats. Thank you, Jody.
• 1:32:34
  Jody says, Dave, that was a good interview on Pod
• 1:32:36
  News Weekly Review. I'm looking forward to hearing more future
• 1:32:39
  plans for community replication of the index. Here's a little
• 1:32:42
  value as I empty out my fountain wallet. Well... It's
• 1:32:45
  good timing because we'll be talking about that hopefully in
• 1:32:47
  the next few weeks. Yay. Chad F. Hey, Chad, 185
• 1:32:53
  sets. He says, this show's lost the plot. What was
• 1:32:58
  the plot? We had no plot. I'm at June 2023
• 1:33:03
  on Helipat. Yeah, you got a few years ago. Helipat.
• 1:33:08
  Forever. We need a fast forward in Helipad. I do
• 1:33:13
  like the new Start OS. It's pretty good. Now they
• 1:33:19
  built in wire guard and everything, so you don't have
• 1:33:22
  to be reliant on Tor. Oh, tail scale. No, it's
• 1:33:27
  WireGuard. So not tail scale. I thought WireGuard was the
• 1:33:32
  tail scale used. It's not tail scale. It's WireGuard. Yeah.
• 1:33:36
  So tail scale uses WireGuard. This is WireGuard, I think.
• 1:33:39
  Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that head scale is good, but
• 1:33:44
  I have not tried it. Mm-hmm. It's like a self-hosted
• 1:33:48
  tail scale. Let me see. Oh, yeah, I have. Because
• 1:33:52
  it gives you access control lists and that kind of
• 1:33:54
  thing that overlay on the wire guard. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well,
• 1:33:58
  yeah, Tailscale has a lot of extra, extra ditties. Use
• 1:34:02
  gateway. Ditties. Duties. Extra ditties. Extra ditties and duties. Chat
• 1:34:09
  F, 185 sats, giving AlbiHub a boost budget is cool,
• 1:34:13
  but not everyone can afford to run AlbiHub. It's true.
• 1:34:17
  It's free though, right? Can't you run it free? But
• 1:34:18
  you got to run it on a machine. Normal people.
• 1:34:23
  Normal people can't run it, Dave. Normal people can't run
• 1:34:26
  it. Normal people. Chad F has machines. He's got lots
• 1:34:29
  of machines. Chad F, 185, says all hell is going
• 1:34:33
  to break loose and you're going to need an Albie
• 1:34:35
  hug. Where is that? Manning Bitcoin. That's what it is.
• 1:34:41
  Here we go. Here we go. They're saying that all
• 1:34:45
  hell is gonna break loose and you're gonna need a
• 1:34:47
  Bitcoin. Yeah. What are you going to do with all
• 1:34:53
  those jingles after October? No, I'm going to use them
• 1:34:57
  for this show. What do you mean? This show is
• 1:34:58
  continuing. I've got plenty of stuff to use it for.
• 1:35:01
  It's great. It's 185 sass again from Chad. He says,
• 1:35:05
  send in boosts with Albie isn't anything new. Okay. Okay.
• 1:35:09
  I'm not sure what reference that was to you. Just
• 1:35:12
  so you know. Okay. Just letting everybody know. Chad F185,
• 1:35:17
  he says, I stand with CSB++. Okay. We all stand
• 1:35:21
  with CSB. Yeah, all the time. Mm-hmm. And guess what?
• 1:35:25
  We got a commentary blogger, 10,556 sats. There he is.
• 1:35:29
  Through Fountain. He says, howdy, Adam and Dave. Today I
• 1:35:33
  recommend a podcast, Unrelenting, from www.unrelenting.show, by Gene, who has
• 1:35:40
  an IQ of 187, and by Darren, who is much
• 1:35:44
  taller than Adam. It's a great podcast. Just jibber jabber
• 1:35:48
  about health, tech and life. No clips. Yo, CSB, Ozempic
• 1:35:52
  Taker. P.S. This gram was worth when sent $15.59 equals
• 1:35:56
  19,000 satoshis. Thank you, comics or blogger. And he alerted
• 1:36:03
  me to the fact. So I figured out that. or
• 1:36:07
  my robot. I unleashed the robot on my start nine.
• 1:36:10
  Like, why is my torque failing? And it says, well,
• 1:36:14
  I see here in the log that, you know, this
• 1:36:17
  version, it literally says this version will soon stop working.
• 1:36:21
  Right. okay and that's what happened so stop working so
• 1:36:27
  now i should be okay i should be okay okay
• 1:36:30
  for the A few hours before next Friday, Helipad will
• 1:36:35
  have repropagated everything up to 2026. It'll be fun to
• 1:36:39
  watch. Maybe. You're really sticking your neck out on that.
• 1:36:44
  Eric PP, do I have to keep Helipad open now?
• 1:36:47
  Do I have to keep the interface up, or will
• 1:36:50
  that work in the background? Do I need to keep
• 1:36:54
  the browser window open? You know, honestly, it's amazing that
• 1:36:57
  it even does that. Oh, it's phenomenal. I mean. Going
• 1:37:01
  back that far? Well, that's the whole L&D database. It's
• 1:37:05
  reparsing it all. That's really cool. I think it's phenomenal.
• 1:37:08
  Yeah. It's just it's not very fast because right now
• 1:37:11
  we are at. Yeah. Let me see. Oops. I didn't
• 1:37:15
  mean to do that. Helipad. Open up the helipads. We
• 1:37:20
  are at June, 15th of June, 2023. Let me go
• 1:37:26
  look real quick. He says it'll run in the background.
• 1:37:31
  Cool. Okay. Thank you. Let me see how big the
• 1:37:35
  podcast index node database was. Oh, that thing was probably
• 1:37:41
  600 gigabytes or some massive number like that. Trying to
• 1:37:46
  see us. Of course, I saved it in case we
• 1:37:50
  ever needed it for tax stuff. I want to I
• 1:37:54
  can't really look at it right now, but I think
• 1:37:56
  I want to say it was like 60 gigs. Oh,
• 1:37:59
  no, that's not that big then. But it's 60 gigs
• 1:38:04
  of a B-Bolt database. That's a big B-Bolt database. That's
• 1:38:08
  great. A 60 gig MySQL database is nothing, but that
• 1:38:12
  thing was not in the good format. It's like a
• 1:38:15
  60 gig Fox Pro database. You're like, you don't want
• 1:38:18
  to touch that thing. Amazing. Lightning message board. What is
• 1:38:23
  that? Was that it, Dave? That's all I got, man.
• 1:38:29
  Okay. Well, thank you all very much. Remember, the podcast
• 1:38:32
  index runs by your grace. Go to podcast. It was
• 1:38:36
  CSB says, damn, $200 a month for this Fediverse instance.
• 1:38:41
  Let's keep no history. Delete it all. Okay. That's fine.
• 1:38:46
  It'll still do it. Okay. Torch it. You know, I
• 1:38:50
  upgraded first and foremost because people want, I can't search.
• 1:38:54
  I can't search. That's how it works. You got to
• 1:38:57
  upgrade to another tier just to get search. I say
• 1:39:01
  we downgrade that thing. Okay. I'll take a look. I'll
• 1:39:06
  see what the options are. I mean, it's our tool,
• 1:39:08
  man. It's our tool. Sometimes you have to adjust your
• 1:39:13
  tool. Well, on that note, everybody, I'm going to go
• 1:39:18
  adjust my tool. I suggest you all do the same.
• 1:39:22
  We'll be back next week on Friday with more Podcasting
• 1:39:25
  2.0. We'll be right back. Thank you. I think they're
• 1:39:40
  cool. You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org
• 1:39:47
  for more information. Go podcasting! We're off the rails!