Latest / CattleUSA Daily / 218: Volatile, Violent, and Not Over Yet: Cattle Market Reality Check with Dan and Samantha
Transcript
- 0:00In today's episode with Dan and Samantha, we are breaking down
- 0:03the cattle markets once again. Dan and Samantha bring some
- 0:05great insight on what we have been seeing over the past few
- 0:08weeks with the cattle markets. We also discuss what we are
- 0:12going to be seeing as we round out 2025, Some predictions as we
- 0:16start into 2026 and then some just reflection on what happened
- 0:22over the past year in the cattle markets and just what a wild
- 0:26ride it has been in 2025. Dana and Samantha break all of
- 0:30that down for us in today's episode before we hop in with
- 0:33them. If you are watching on YouTube,
- 0:35make sure that you take a second to go subscribe to our channel
- 0:37and like this episode. And if you are listening on any
- 0:39of our podcast platforms, make sure that you are following the
- 0:42show and take a second to go rate and review it in the show
- 0:45notes down below as well. And without further ado, let's
- 0:49go ahead and hear from Jane and Samantha.
- 0:55Welcome to the Cattle USA Daily podcast, your go to source for
- 0:58the latest livestock markets, industry insights and the
- 1:01updates shaping agriculture today.
- 1:03I'm your host, Lauren Moylan, a passionate advocate for
- 1:06agriculture, here to keep you informed and connected.
- 1:09Now let's dive into today's episode.
- 1:18Dan, Samantha, welcome back to the podcast.
- 1:21How has life been over the past week in the wonderful state of
- 1:27Iowa and Kansas? Well, I guess I know how Kansas
- 1:29has been over the past week, Samantha, but you know, how is
- 1:32everyone? How is Florida, Dan?
- 1:35Oh, it was, it was good. It was warm as usual.
- 1:39It's been a while, so it was nice to get get out for just a
- 1:42couple days and enjoy some sunshine again.
- 1:45Iowa's been brutal to start this winter off and like a lion,
- 1:49hopefully out like a lamb, but it's been brutal.
- 1:52Yeah, I can relate with Kansas, too.
- 1:55Like right now we have a little bit of sunshine coming in and
- 1:57it's warming up a little bit, but it has been so cold and
- 2:01cloudy and miserable. So I hope you soaked up the
- 2:04sunshine for all of us in Florida.
- 2:06I really do. Yeah, boy, being nice to just
- 2:09pack up, move all the cattle, feed cattle down there in the
- 2:12winter time and then bring him back home in the summer.
- 2:14And yeah, doesn't work that way. But yeah, the weather was nice.
- 2:18Snowbird. Hey, I don't know, I've stock
- 2:21producers don't get that chance. Yes, very much so.
- 2:25Well, what has been going on in the markets?
- 2:27Who wants to start us out? What are our thoughts?
- 2:30Just been a lot of chop the last 2-3 days.
- 2:33Markets very indecisive as far as if it wants to punch through
- 2:37some of these Fibonacci retracement levels if it wants
- 2:40to go up and attempt filling some of these gaps again.
- 2:44We had a chance on the way down to fill and failed and
- 2:47inevitably went lower broke below 200 day moving averages
- 2:51and now we're back above those averages and trying to chase
- 2:55those gaps again. It's kind of in a sideways
- 2:58pattern like I mentioned for 2-3 days and old adages never sell a
- 3:03sleeper. So I'm a little optimistic.
- 3:05I think cash has an opportunity this week, but we'll see how
- 3:09that goes. Some of the sale barns seen a
- 3:11little bit bigger runs, but overall not a not a huge amount
- 3:16traded to really think anybody's going to step out of the market.
- 3:20That combined with I don't think they can.
- 3:23I think they've got the orders, they need some some rabbis for
- 3:26Christmas. So I think they're they're going
- 3:28to have to keep this kill up there in the upper 500.
- 3:31So that's a little optimistic there, yeah.
- 3:34I'd love to hear a little bit of optimism.
- 3:38Samantha, what are your thoughts?
- 3:39Yeah, I agree. Cash is really strong right now.
- 3:43The need for placements is really high.
- 3:44People are finally getting those long time wing cabs to town,
- 3:48seeing a little bit less market transparency.
- 3:51You know, Texas now doesn't meet confidentiality laws to be
- 3:54reporting on the negotiated fed cattle trade.
- 3:56Like I said, that takes out a lot of transparency out of the
- 3:59market. Even though they're trading at
- 4:01such a low volume, they have such a high influence on the
- 4:04market. So, you know, if it were up to
- 4:06me, I would say we do need a little more or less restrictions
- 4:10on those confidentiality guidelines so we can be seeing
- 4:13that trade because really who knows when that's going to come
- 4:16back. So you know, we already trade at
- 4:18such a low level of new cash trade itself.
- 4:22Most everything's traded at formula trade, you know, roughly
- 4:2475 to 80% of that. So we were already getting such
- 4:28a small window into what's going on in the cash market in itself.
- 4:32So do not have those bids and not see that transparency I
- 4:35think is going to have and effect moving forward.
- 4:38Also something to look at, you know, the demand for ground beef
- 4:41is kind of unseasonably high for this time of year.
- 4:44So we're going to see less of an emphasis on those higher end
- 4:47cuts as we move into the holiday season.
- 4:50You know, as far as technical technicals go, I don't really
- 4:53keep up with that sort of thing on the futures board.
- 4:56That's that's Dan's territory. But he talked about last week in
- 4:59his commentary a dead cat bounce and I know enough to know that
- 5:02that means, you know, this rally last week was all done on low
- 5:06open interest. So that doesn't really put the
- 5:08technicals in our favor long term.
- 5:11I think we're going to start seeing more of this pressure
- 5:14first of the year come into play when we start seeing higher
- 5:16import numbers on beef and then getting this S border open.
- 5:21I was optimistic to see slaughter almost reached that
- 5:25600,000 level last week and most of it was on two to four week
- 5:29delivery. So I think that's going to
- 5:31hopefully carry us into the year end.
- 5:34Now as we move into the first of the year, there's still that
- 5:37high level of uncertainty. Agree with that.
- 5:40I mean January February is typically restaurant season.
- 5:43Be interesting as we rolled out calendar and get some new fresh
- 5:46new maxed out credit card bills after the Christmas season.
- 5:50Be interesting to see what that restaurant demands like.
- 5:52As as Samantha mentioned, you know, I showed demand is not
- 5:57falling out of bed. There's things of of concern.
- 5:59You know the last 2-3 months you saw volume moved as a whole
- 6:04dropped at the same time slaughter dropped and prices
- 6:08were drifting lower. You know, not not falling out of
- 6:11bed, but they held 370 for quite a while and now we've drifted
- 6:15below that. But you don't want to see all,
- 6:17all three of those, those factors going down at the same
- 6:20time. So that's kind of a, a little
- 6:22thing to, to keep an eye on And, and coming into January, it'll
- 6:26be interesting what that, that restaurant demands.
- 6:28Like if this winter stays like this all the way through
- 6:31February into March, I would, I would think restaurant demand.
- 6:36It's just going to be mediocre. I don't think it's going to be
- 6:39extreme because people don't want like traveling in this type
- 6:42of weather. It's 30-40 mile an hour winds up
- 6:45here right now and snowing again.
- 6:46So it's pretty easy to, as you mentioned, take some hamburger,
- 6:51make a casserole at home. So Jan Feb could be very
- 6:54interesting. Yeah, definitely.
- 6:57We've got some things on the horizon that we can sit here and
- 7:01we can speculate on what we think is going to happen or what
- 7:03we kind of anticipate is going to happen.
- 7:05But boy, if this market has shown us anything over the past
- 7:08year, it is that hold on to the handlebars because this roller
- 7:12coaster is not slowing down anytime soon.
- 7:15What are our thoughts on just kind of as we continue to move
- 7:18through the year into January, we're starting to close up 2025.
- 7:22My mind isn't even on 2025 anymore.
- 7:25I'm like that long passed a long time ago, but what are kind of
- 7:30our thoughts as we round out the year and just go into 2026?
- 7:35You know Shane. Go ahead.
- 7:38Shane talked a little bit in his commentary last week that when
- 7:41we saw the FDA approve a drug to treat the screwworm stuff that
- 7:47we were seeing funds exit. So I was putting some downward
- 7:51pressure on the market and then it kind of rebounded after that
- 7:55case. The screw worm was confirmed 120
- 7:57miles South of the border. So I don't think it'll be the
- 8:01first of the year when we see this thing open.
- 8:03I think if I was initially the plan, I think it'll be further
- 8:07into the first of the year. But I think when we do get it
- 8:10open, just that initial effective of people having that
- 8:13speculation that they've got all these cattle wait, not just come
- 8:17in and that can have an effect on the markets.
- 8:20So I think that's going to be the biggest thing going into
- 8:232026. Yeah, I mean, all eyes are
- 8:27sitting around waiting when they're going to drop that that
- 8:30bomb on us same time. I still don't think they're
- 8:34going to open all the all the ports at 1 crack.
- 8:37We're not going to see a massive glut of cattle come crossing
- 8:39right away. It's kind of, it's a, it's a
- 8:42process just like it was the last two times I tried to open
- 8:45it. So the other interesting thing
- 8:47that's been funny to watch is just the psychology of this,
- 8:50this cattle market. I, I get, I don't know if you
- 8:52want to call it a luxury or a privilege.
- 8:54I get the privilege more so of talking to a lot of producers
- 8:58across the country. So when I do that, I get to
- 9:00hear, you know, in their voice, in their thoughts, you know,
- 9:03what if they think we're going to new highs, if they think
- 9:06we're going to new lows and how that changes as the market
- 9:08moves. So, you know, something we've
- 9:10kind of noticed there's a lot of producers out there we're we're
- 9:14sitting on their hands not getting coverage as we were
- 9:17rallying this market higher. And then all the sudden Trump
- 9:20comes out, make some statements, other stuff, you know, started
- 9:24dropping to make that market do what it did there in late
- 9:26October and November. And then there was a lot of
- 9:29panic bucking, you know, getting coverage on, getting hedges on.
- 9:34And now the market retraces, you know, as she mentioned that dead
- 9:37cab bounce on lower open interest and we're seeing
- 9:40producers once again stalling out saying, well, if we get back
- 9:45up another 10-15 higher, you know, then I'll do something,
- 9:49you know, it reward the rally. You can work into this stuff,
- 9:53you know, on percentages, book 25% when you rally 1020 bucks
- 9:58and if market goes higher again, book another 10, 1525%.
- 10:03You know, just keep rewarding this rally because we don't know
- 10:06when that's going to turn around and fall out of bed again.
- 10:09You know, back to the psychology, you know, go sit in
- 10:11the sail barn. It's kind of funny, you know,
- 10:14back in early October, I just wipe my hands clean.
- 10:17I'm like, I can't afford these things.
- 10:19What calves were cost and weaned, unweaned yearlings.
- 10:22They were all just insanely high.
- 10:24Great for the background or great for the, the cow calf
- 10:27producer love to see it. They need their turn.
- 10:29Then all the sudden the market drops, price drops with them.
- 10:33You know, I, I think I saw four $500 head swing in the same type
- 10:37of cattle inside of a month, you know, to the down and then all
- 10:41the sudden we put that four 500 bucks back on in two weeks.
- 10:45It's pretty remarkable how everybody's opinion went from
- 10:48we're going to 0 to now we're going back to the moon.
- 10:50So like I said, the psychology of all of this, it, it's been,
- 10:55it's been a violent volatile market.
- 10:57And, and personally, I don't think it's over 2026 is set up
- 11:01that it can, it can remain just as volatile.
- 11:04So the, the other thing that I hear a lot on the phones is how
- 11:09expensive these LRPS are. I, I don't disagree option
- 11:13volatility went through the roof with this move we've had.
- 11:16So yeah, you're looking out, you know, if, if you're going out 40
- 11:19or, you know, 52 weeks it, it gets up there, 20 bucks, 100
- 11:24weight is a lot is a large pill to swallow, but consider coming
- 11:28back in with some options around it.
- 11:30You know, there are ways that we can try and make that a little
- 11:34bit more reasonable. It adds a little bit of risk in
- 11:36trading when we do so, but at the same time, you know, we
- 11:39might protect a window from 3/23/25 down to 280 and, and we
- 11:44might cap your top side up at 37380 the old highs.
- 11:48So consider that it's it's not a good fit for everyone.
- 11:52And then like I said it, it comes with some risk.
- 11:54But at the same time, if we can cover the top ten 1520% of this
- 11:58market from where it's sitting now and we leave you open to the
- 12:01old highs, it, it's sound risk management in my opinion.
- 12:05And all the sudden you can take that $20 a hundredweight LRP
- 12:09premium and turn it into 8/10/12.
- 12:12You know, it a little bit easier pill to swallow.
- 12:15So at the, the end of the day, I personally don't think cattle
- 12:20are going to 0. So why do we need to ensure I'm
- 12:23to 0 you know, put some LRP on sale, put underneath of them,
- 12:27you know, 40-50 bucks out of the money and and be happy you got
- 12:32that top end of this market protected.
- 12:34Yeah, I think if we've learned anything this year, it's that
- 12:36it's a volatile and violent market and that we can sit here
- 12:40and we can try and predict it all day long, but the market is
- 12:43going to do what the markets going to do.
- 12:45And if the media decides that they want to talk about the
- 12:47cattle market that week, well, hell, all the fundamentals go to
- 12:51shit. So it's one of those situations
- 12:54that we really we try to have as much predictive ability as
- 12:58possible when it comes to this market and keeping it stabilized
- 13:02for these producers because we want, we want to have high
- 13:06markets, we want to have all of this.
- 13:07But at the same time, it's going to go up and down.
- 13:10It is a commodity market at the end of the day.
- 13:12And So what that looks like is kind of those fundamentals come
- 13:16into play. But at the same time, we're
- 13:18going to have that roller coaster come in.
- 13:19So you made some really, really great points, Dan.
- 13:23Just as we go into the new year, we are reflecting back on kind
- 13:27of this crazy year that we've had.
- 13:28A little fun question for you guys.
- 13:30What is the most outlandish, most surprising, most wild thing
- 13:36in your opinion that happened in the market this year?
- 13:38Falling off $80 a hundredweight and two months, that's insane.
- 13:43I don't think anybody saw that coming anytime soon.
- 13:46Oh, that was a that was a big drop that fast.
- 13:49I'd have to say some of this option premium that I saw when
- 13:52we were up knocking on the highs, you know, $400.00 feeder
- 13:57cattle calls were worth 5 to 7 bucks, $500 feeder calls,
- 14:02they're still trading at a half a buck.
- 14:04I mean, I at one point those things were worth a buck and a
- 14:07half buck 60. So it to me, when I look at, I
- 14:12got to look at crazy. Once again, it comes back to the
- 14:15mentality or the, the psychology of trading.
- 14:18There's actually people that thought we were going to $500
- 14:20feeders. They had decent reasons to think
- 14:23so the supply and a lot. And at the end of the day,
- 14:27that's, that's quite the move. So watching wild stuff like
- 14:31that, yeah, it's, it's been a, it's been a ride.
- 14:36It has definitely, definitely been a ride.
- 14:38Well, guys, what else is there anything else in the markets we
- 14:41need to hit on? Dan, do you want to hit on grain
- 14:43markets really quick for us? Yeah.
- 14:45I mean, yesterday we had a grain report come out.
- 14:48A lot of people are calling it a nothing burger.
- 14:50A lot of people were just saying we kicked a can down the road
- 14:53and that's the facts. They didn't do a whole lot.
- 14:55Overall, the number on corn was a touch bullish, but not as
- 14:58bullish as a lot of people would hope that the USDA would correct
- 15:03their numbers to the yield. You know, in my opinion and a
- 15:06lot of people's opinion, that yield number from, from this
- 15:092025 crop, your knees come down at the end of the day.
- 15:13They, they like to do that in incremental movements.
- 15:17They're not just going to come in and drop, drop the yield
- 15:20from, you know, 184 down to 182 down to 176 and one report.
- 15:25So we we weren't surprised that they did that.
- 15:29Overall, it's very common to see the seasonals just work grains
- 15:34higher as we go into January and February, you know, early March.
- 15:37So you know, as we recommended here a couple months ago, get
- 15:40your feed bought, you know, corn was cheap at that time, wheat
- 15:44cheap. I'd like to see a little bit
- 15:46more action in that wheat in bean market, get those trending
- 15:49back higher to really give me hope that this rally lasts a
- 15:53little longer than expected. You know, beans, wheat, they're
- 15:56kind of the they're kind of dragging right here.
- 15:59So I don't think corns going to get extremely out of hand.
- 16:02It would it still wouldn't surprise me though if we go up
- 16:04and visit that 47480, maybe 495 if if we do, I think producers
- 16:10really need to heavily consider getting some hedges in place for
- 16:132026 crop year. Definitely.
- 16:15Samantha, do you have any other closing thoughts on the markets
- 16:20this week or anything else that we didn't hit on?
- 16:23Not really. Just going back to what Dan
- 16:25said, use the rallies to protect.
- 16:27You know, sure we fell off a ways, but we've gained about
- 16:30half of that back. These are still really good
- 16:32prices to protect that. Don't let it fall off another 20
- 16:35a hundred before you pull the trigger.
- 16:37Yeah, absolutely. Dan, anything else before we
- 16:39close out? All good here.
- 16:41Hope everybody has a great Christmas.
- 16:43Yeah, one more, one more quick thing.
- 16:46Very important, get your prime ribs out of the freezer, get
- 16:50them in the refrigerator and get them wet aging.
- 16:52Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
- 16:55Hit up Dan if you need an instruction manual on that.
- 16:58I'm sure he can help provide. Mr. Grill Master over here can
- 17:02do all of that for you. So one nice thing we don't have
- 17:05to worry about you can't put a prime rib in an air fryer.
- 17:07Yep. OK, I regret everyday telling
- 17:10you that I do that. My husband now it is a joke in
- 17:14our house about our air fryer and me cooking my steaks in it.
- 17:18But you know, they turn out great.
- 17:21They're perfect in the middle and nice and crispy on the
- 17:23outside and you know, it's fine. It's fine.
- 17:27As long as you keep eating steak, I don't really care how
- 17:30you cook it, but I can't help myself.
- 17:33I I can't blame you too much. I can't blame you too much.
- 17:35We are hosting for Christmas, so that is a good reminder for
- 17:39everyone. Get your prime ribs out, get
- 17:41whatever you're doing out, hopefully at a stake of some
- 17:44sort. And we hope you guys have a
- 17:46great rest of your week. Dan, Samantha, thank you for
- 17:49your time as always. To all of our listeners, if you
- 17:52need that coverage that we were talking about today, if you want
- 17:55to just get in contact with someone from our team, talk to
- 17:57Dan, talk to Samantha, anyone else, Make sure that you check
- 18:00out the show notes down below. We've got that link where you
- 18:02can figure out what works best for you and get a hold of the
- 18:06team through Cattle USA Insurance.
- 18:08Guys. Thank you again for your time to
- 18:09all of our listeners. We will see you all next week on
- 18:11another episode. Have a good one y'all.