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Estate planning for second marriages · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better and you I'm great?
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  Speaker 2: Thank you? What do you have for us this week?
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to go back to Ohio, my old stomping grounds,
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  Speaker 3: and give you this Ohio Pellet court case that says,
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  Speaker 3: in essence, can a surviving spouse change the beneficiaries of
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  Speaker 3: a deceased spouse's trust and change a trustee? Well, seems
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  Speaker 3: like a simple question. It also seems like it could
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  Speaker 3: be a problem not so much on a first marriage,
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  Speaker 3: but could be on a second marriage.
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  Speaker 2: Huge problem.
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  Speaker 3: So let's talk about that and how to plan and
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  Speaker 3: how to draft around that. Then we head over to
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  Speaker 3: Georgia and an individual dies with a second marriage and
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  Speaker 3: has two kids from a prior marriage and doesn't really
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  Speaker 3: seem to be any real planning in place, so there's
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  Speaker 3: going to be this discussion and fight over who gets what,
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  Speaker 3: especially because there's a surviving spouse stepmom who's alive, so, folks,
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  Speaker 3: in essence, we're going to learn a lot about how
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  Speaker 3: to plan for second marriages, and almost in both of
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  Speaker 3: these cases they have it. And interestingly enough, since it
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  Speaker 3: is a new month and we have a new guide,
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  Speaker 3: it's basically a state planning potholes to avoid. And when
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  Speaker 3: you think about it, you know, you ask yourself certain questions, like,
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  Speaker 3: you know, should I just rely on a will? Is
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  Speaker 3: that enough? I don't need to do anything else? Is
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  Speaker 3: my estate too small? You know what if I've done
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  Speaker 3: my plan ten years ago, should I review it? See
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  Speaker 3: what's going on? You know, when one spouse dies, please
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  Speaker 3: don't empty the spouse's trust and take everything out and
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  Speaker 3: put it in your own name. Not helpful. Don't forget
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  Speaker 3: to you know, do tax returns on the surviving spouse.
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  Speaker 3: When the surviving spouse is alive. There's a trust now
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  Speaker 3: that needs a tax return that needs to be prepared.
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  Speaker 3: Make sure you look into these things. How you leave assets,
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  Speaker 3: don't leave them jointly owned. Maybe you should have a trust.
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  Speaker 3: There's so many things to think about when you're doing
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  Speaker 3: your estate planning, and if you've never done one, this
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  Speaker 3: is the guide to help you get started because it
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  Speaker 3: shows you all the mistakes that you could make. Don't
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: make these mistakes. Get the guide. A state planning Potholes
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  Speaker 3: to Avoid eight six six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com again eight
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  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
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  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com Off to Ohio we go.
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  Speaker 3: So in this case, Roy and Barbara second marriage, and
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  Speaker 3: they had no kids together, but they created a joint
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  Speaker 3: revocable trust in two thousand and one. So this is
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  Speaker 3: one trust for both of them. That's what I mean
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  Speaker 3: by the word joint. They were both co trustees and
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  Speaker 3: designated beneficiaries while they're alive, perfectly normal. They named each
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  Speaker 3: of their respective children. Now they had more children, but
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  Speaker 3: they took one from each side and put them on
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  Speaker 3: a successor co trustees did so far. I love this.
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  Speaker 3: Roy Son, Rick and Barbara roy Son Rick and Barbara's
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  Speaker 3: son John were named.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 3: In twenty fourteen, Roy died, okay, and guess what. Shortly
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  Speaker 3: after that, Barbara amended the trust, eliminating Roy's kids as
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  Speaker 3: contingent beneficiaries and removed Rick, Roy's son as co trustee
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  Speaker 3: and appointed her other son, William, to serve as successor trustee.
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  Speaker 3: Wow wows right, So Barbara died in twenty twenty one. Well,
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  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, as you might imagine, Roy's kids
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  Speaker 3: filed a complaint seeking a declaratory judgment, arguing that Barbara
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  Speaker 3: could not amend the trust, changed the beneficiaries after Roy's death,
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  Speaker 3: and that a credit shelter trust was automatically established funded
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  Speaker 3: to hold the assets. Well that all sounds like, is
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  Speaker 3: is what's supposed to happen. Credit should have happened. The
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  Speaker 3: credit shelter trust does get established, that does hold the assets.
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  Speaker 3: That's all normal. So so far i'm reading this, I'm
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  Speaker 3: going this doesn't seem out of the ordinary yet. Well,
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  Speaker 3: the trial court had to respond. So the trial court
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  Speaker 3: rules in favor of Roy's kids and agreed that this
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  Speaker 3: credit Shelter Trust was established. It precluded Barbara from becoming
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  Speaker 3: the sole trustee of the trust, and the provision stating
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  Speaker 3: that she is the sole trustee was a drafting error. Well,
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  Speaker 3: as you might imagine, her kids appealed and guess what,
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  Speaker 3: the appellate court reversed. And I'm not surprised because I
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  Speaker 3: thought the trial court was wrong. It was the language.
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  Speaker 3: It was clear that Barbara was to become the sole
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  Speaker 3: trustee after Roy's death, and the trustee did have discretion
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  Speaker 3: to create this credit Shelter trust funded and then the
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  Speaker 3: mandatory obligations existed in that credit Shelter trust if it
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  Speaker 3: was created, so they had some discretionary powers to do that.
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  Speaker 3: I don't I don't think this is a wrong reason.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's the right result. But I think it's
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  Speaker 3: scary to perhaps the everyday listener.
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  Speaker 2: It's all the drafting, right, Yeah, as to.
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  Speaker 3: What does this mean? Because I love joint.
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  Speaker 2: Trusts, how do you approach it when you have a
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  Speaker 2: second marriage for your client's todd.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's exactly what we need to
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  Speaker 3: talk about. I mean, I love the joint trust in
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  Speaker 3: general for a moderate state. So remember it's very simple.
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  Speaker 3: They're easy. You're both donors, you're both trustees. Just like here,
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  Speaker 3: it's easy to fund. You don't have to separate the assets.
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  Speaker 3: You put everything in in one bucket. And it's common
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  Speaker 3: for both spouses to serve as trustee and the survivor
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  Speaker 3: to serve alone. It's not uncommon, at least for our
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  Speaker 3: first marriage, right, you know, that's very common, nothing wrong
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  Speaker 3: with that. Now for second marriages. However, in this case,
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  Speaker 3: you know, if you want, you know, you could allow
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  Speaker 3: a child from a previous marriage to serve as co
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  Speaker 3: trustee with the spouse. Probably what and they did that here,
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  Speaker 3: but probably what you need to do is you need
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  Speaker 3: to put that in the language that says you're not
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  Speaker 3: if you're going to do that, you don't have it
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  Speaker 3: set up where it says the surviving spouse can serve
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  Speaker 3: a sole trustee, right, you just have language in there
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  Speaker 3: that says, at any time after the death of one spouse,
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  Speaker 3: a child of the other spouse must always be serving.
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  Speaker 3: The child of the deceased spouse must always be serving.
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  Speaker 3: So you might be able to remove that child, but
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  Speaker 3: you have to replace them with another child of that
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  Speaker 3: side of the marriage. So you just put you know,
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  Speaker 3: check and balance language in. And the credit shelter share
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  Speaker 3: also very common, right, it's generally mandatory, it's funded. It's
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  Speaker 3: funded with the amount of money equal to the state
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  Speaker 3: death tax exemption.
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  Speaker 2: So that's like your.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly right, that's the shelter share. And and it's two
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  Speaker 3: million here in mass or if they're you're in a
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  Speaker 3: state with no tax, it would be the amount of
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  Speaker 3: the federal exemption. So and remember this is designed to
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  Speaker 3: shelter the amount that that could have been taxed on
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  Speaker 3: this that would be taxed on the second death, and
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  Speaker 3: this way it's not going to be taxed. And these
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  Speaker 3: joint trusts are phenomenal because they have a general power
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  Speaker 3: of apployment in them that allow all the assets in
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  Speaker 3: the trust to be included in the estate of the
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  Speaker 3: first to die, So you can shelter a lot more
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  Speaker 3: assets federal and state than you could if you just
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  Speaker 3: had a single trust and you divided everything between the
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  Speaker 3: two trusts. So I really like that idea, you know.
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  Speaker 3: I think the bigger problem that you had here is
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  Speaker 3: now this is good for smaller estates. When I say
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  Speaker 3: smaller estates, all estates under fourteen million. For sure. This
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  Speaker 3: seems to be good language to have. And remember you
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  Speaker 3: have language in there that says income and principle to
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  Speaker 3: the surviving spouse. It could have hem standards for health, education, maintenance.
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  Speaker 3: The co trustee of the kid could be a check
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  Speaker 3: in balance over these distributions, you know. But remember the
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  Speaker 3: standard also protects the spouse if the spouse needs it
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  Speaker 3: to pay a medical bills or a health expense or
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  Speaker 3: a you know, if you meet the standard, you can't
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  Speaker 3: say no.
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  Speaker 2: So things great would enjoy having one trust. If I
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  Speaker 2: was getting married for a second time, I'd want my.
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  Speaker 3: Own trust, you could. It might be something to think
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  Speaker 3: about in second marriages. And that's exactly what I was
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  Speaker 3: going to say here. The biggest issue here is not
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  Speaker 3: the one trust versus two trusts. The biggest issue is
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  Speaker 3: whether or not you include the limited power of appointment
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  Speaker 3: in a trust situation. For a second marriage.
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  Speaker 2: So that's what protects your kids from being disinherited exactly.
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  Speaker 3: If that language was not in here, then the surviving
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  Speaker 3: spouse would not be able to change the beneficiaries after
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  Speaker 3: one spouse died period on the trust.
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  Speaker 2: On the trust, they could for I arrays or anything
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  Speaker 2: else that's not governed by that.
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  Speaker 3: You have to yeah, yeah, I rays are tough, but
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  Speaker 3: things that you can put in the trust, you can
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  Speaker 3: get that protection. So this limited power of appointments great
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  Speaker 3: for first marriages and okay for second marriages, but you
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  Speaker 3: gotta talk through it and decide whether or not you
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  Speaker 3: really want that in there. So I think it's not.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: The joint trust is the power of appointment. Folks, learn
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: much more to come when we return to the Legal
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  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong and I Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Pushing in Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 2: Where we headed now, Todd.
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  Speaker 3: We're gonna head over to Georgia.
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  Speaker 2: Still on the same second marriage.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, another second marriage problem, but this time they did
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: even less planning. That's possible, so the Saunders. I'm sorry.
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  Speaker 3: Tony Sanders died January twenty twenty one, survived by his wife, Molly,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: and two adult kids from a prior marriage. Doesn't seem
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: to say that they have anything in place. Kevin and
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Terry are the kids well. On September twenty twenty two,
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  Speaker 3: Mollie files a petition for one year's worth of support.
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  Speaker 3: Now I'm wondering if this is what the Intestate Succession
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Statute of Georgia says if you die without a will.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know that. Remember this is very case specific.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: So Mollie files a petition for one year's worth of
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  Speaker 3: support and requests certain real estate be set aside for
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: her support. So I don't know how she wants to
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: get that support, either money or real estate. Kevin, of course,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: one of the kids objected, arguing that the estate should
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: be divided equally between Molly, Kevin, and Terry. Now again,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I think you really need to look and understand the
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Intestate Succession Statute of Georgia to see if that's what
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: it says if you die with kids from a prior
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: marriage and you have no will, and does it go
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: that way. Mollie filed a petition to dismiss this action
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: that Kevin took, but Kevin never responded that's never good no. Therefore,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: the court dismissed Kevin's objection and partially granted Molly's request
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: first for one years of support and awarded her a
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: life estate in real property with a remainder interest to
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: the two kids. Not uncommon. I think in Massachusetts there's
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: life estate arrangement that's granted under the Intestate Succession Statute
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: under certain conditions.
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  Speaker 4: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: Well, Molly appealed. She didn't like that, arguing that she
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: should have gotten the whole real estate and not just
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the remainder interest for her support. Well, the appellate court reversed. Basically,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: if an objection to a petition is disallowed, the probate
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: court is required to enter in order, setting aside the
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: real estate for the year's support as requested. But it
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  Speaker 3: was never really objected to, remember so and his failure
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  Speaker 3: to respond and allegedly allege any grounds to show otherwise,
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  Speaker 3: the entire real property can go to to you know,
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  Speaker 3: to support, to provide the support and not just that
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  Speaker 3: portion of the property.
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  Speaker 2: They snooze, you lose.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is more about snoozing than lose.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: It's just about why planning?
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Why are you not planning? And folks, this guide this
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: month is designed to help you get off the dime
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: and do planning. It basically has potholes to avoid or
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: mistakes to avoid, you know, like, don't rely on your
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: own will, right, don't. If you've done planning in the
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: past ten years, fifteen years, maybe pull it off the shelf,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: take a look.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: At it, right you make sure it still hit your
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: goals and objectives.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what if you got life events that have changed.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: You know, you've got a second marriage, you've got creditor concerns,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: you've lost a spouse, you've got remarried. You know, folks
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: think of these things, right, you know, did you do
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: your trust planning and never fund it? There's probably about
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: twelve different bullets in here about what to do and
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: what to avoid and if you've done your planning, even
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: how to keep up with your planning. So, folks, this
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: is really a nice refresher guide. Get the guide State
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Planning Potholes to Avoid eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine again eight six six eight four
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  Speaker 3: eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot
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  Speaker 3: com and you can download it there. Now, let's talk
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: about second marriages. Certainly one of the potholes to avoid
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: when you're doing your estate planning. So in this case,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I mean not really any planning was done. I mean,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: to me, the first thing is Tony. You know, if
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: he had just done a trust irrevocable or revocable, I
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: don't even care which way he goes, because it becomes
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: irrevocable when you die, so it doesn't it doesn't really matter.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Now in this case, you would have allocated the real estate,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: which was really the big problem here, the real estate
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to be held in the trust for the surviving spouse's life. Oh,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: that very clear. I don't have to worry about a
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: life estate or a remainder interest. Just hold it right
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: in there. You can even have language, generally, provide language
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: that says that she must pay the bills, upkeep maintenance,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: et cetera. You know, if you move out for six
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: consecutive months, you lose your right. If you die, you
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: lose your right. I mean, put some teeth in there, right,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: and so she could live there, right, And then when
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: she dies, the property goes to his kids from a
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: prior marriage. They're all covered. They don't need to fight
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: or mess around at all. You know. Thus, you can
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: even have language that the whole problem of this case
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: goes away, right if you've done a trust. I mean
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: that's really how easy this was. Now, remember that one
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: year of support, never mind one year. The trust could
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: go on and hold the assets for her entire life.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: You have to mess around with one year. The trust
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: could also hold investments that say, you know what, we're
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: going to pay her income for life, not just for
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: one year. If we're going to pay income for life.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Now what she could actually be using that income to
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: pay the bills on the house that she's living in.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Mm hm.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: So you can really take care of it, right. You
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: can even have discretionary distributions for health, education, maintenance and support,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: and and you know, this would be a way to
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: provide for her money to pay all her bills and
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: to make her life happy without losing all the assets. Right,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: just just do your trust planning right, and you can.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: You can really do that, and that mitigates all those problems. Now,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: the trustee in this case, you know, you may have
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: had a child from a prior marriage service trustee with
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: the spouse. Yeah, I probably would remember the last the
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: checks and balance we dog last segment, we talked about
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: the same idea, right, I don't think that would have
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: been a problem. So maybe in this case, you know,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Kevin or Terry could have been listed as a trustee
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: perhaps with her. Now, I don't think you have any
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: of these problems that you know that she that she's
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: going to be, you know, overreaching on these assets. And
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: so I like that approach. And again, do you want
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: to have her have the power to remove and replace
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: the trustee? Maybe maybe not. I might want always having
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: a child from a prior marriage serving as trustee. Now, also,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: remember if the standards, it's there that you if you
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: put standards in rather than just sole discretionary distributions, you
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: say you can distribute out principle to the spouse for
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: things like health, education, maintenance, and support. Remember, like we
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: said before, this protects her as well as the kids.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: This way, the kids can't just say no all the time.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: If there's a standard and it's met, then the trustee
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: has to pay it out. Otherwise the trustee breaches their
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: own if I douciary duties. Yep, So we don't want
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: that to happen either. Now, I think the biggest problem
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: here is the no planning if you just have a will.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: That's why I kept referring back to saying, well, how
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: come they're trying to do equally to the kids. And
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: you have to really look to the intestate Succession Statute
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: to see where these assets go when you die without
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: a will. And I just want to spend a minute
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: on that, because every state is different. I don't want
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: you to think that if you have a second marriage
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: here in Massachusetts even and that you are automatically just
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: going to say, well, it won't matter because it's all
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: going to go to my wife and that's what I
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: want to happen. That may not be the case, right,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: So don't do a will. Don't not do a will
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: because you just think it's going to all go to
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: your spouse. Now, if you own everything jointly or you
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: put a beneficiary on every one of your accounts, these
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: are steps that you have to take. And you named
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: your spouse on every one of these, well, then I
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: guess that will happen. Right, But don't just do no
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: planning and think that it's all going to go that way.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: We're good, right. And again, if you do that, you
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: have to realize that in some way your children from
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: prior marriage are probably not protected. Folks, call and get
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: the guide. It's a whole bunch of potholes. Listed estate
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: planning mistakes to avoid from emptying a trust when one
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: spouse dies to what happens when you are left with
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a surviving spouse? How does it work? Folks eight six
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Exchange show dot com.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with a
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. Todd will be
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: answering your listener questions when we return to the Legal
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Creating an estate plan can be a difficult process if
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: you aren't working with an expert who can make sure
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: your planning a secure Cushing and Dolan can help. Call
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• 24:10
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  Speaker 1: guide today that's eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 1: six ninety nine, or request an online from their website
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolin.
• 24:41
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• 24:43
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Armstrong do not
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: endorse each other and are not affiliated. HI.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. A
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  Speaker 4: state and financial plan and go hand in hand, and
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  Speaker 4: one of the most common ways to keep that bond
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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• 26:49
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange, and it's time for
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning promise.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. Have a few questions from listeners. First
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: question comes from Bill and Bridgewater Mass and Bill writes,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I have an irrevocable trust that I funded four years ago.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I'd like to lend my son some money to buy
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: a house. Can I give him a loan from the trust?
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Can I have it forgiven if I pass away and
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: consider it as part of his inheritance.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: So, not having read the trust, I'm going to have
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: to say that this is a foremost.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, mutual client of ours.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: So let's that makes me feel better. And again, folks,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: I joke about that. I laugh about that. But remember
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: it's the drafting that matters, right, It really does. Words
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: on a page really matter, okay, And that's why it's
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: important to get a good lawyer that knows how to
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: draft these documents. So my trust. Sure, the trust does
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: allow for the lending of money. Now be careful, because
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: it's a Medicaid irrevocable trust. I have language in there
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: that specifically prohibits the trustee from lending money to the don.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Oor so mom and dad.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Mom and Dad can't borrow from the trust because you
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: could already see right the language. The problem you have
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: there is if there's any way then which principle can
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: come out to the donor, then it's countable for Medicaid.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Right now, just say hey, borrow it from your trust.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: There's a way to get it, right, So we try
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: to specifically we put in big letters. You know that
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: that can't happen. But the trust is allowed to make loans,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: you know, whether they're secured or unsecured loans, et cetera.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Can lend money from the trust. It's an investment. It's
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: a form of a fiduciary investment. And so could they
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: lend money to a child. It could take back a
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: promisory note like you like, any good invent would be
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: applicable federal interest rate applies, and you have payments being
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: made on an amortization schedule.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Let me pause you there. Do you have to charge
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: them interest? Can you not charge your child in interest
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: free loan?
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean I think you run into problems right one.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: You're a fiduciary and you're supposed to be acting like
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: any other fiduciary would, and fiduciaries would not normally lend
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: money without interest, not to mention the fact that government
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: hates that and they tend to impute interest if you
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: don't charge interest, So probably a good idea to charge it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I just look at the applicable federal rate and just
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: take that number. They're not overly high.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Rather than it would be if you like we're looking
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: at a mortgage or something.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: They're not really high right now. So I think if
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: you use that, you have it. And now you have
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: what a nice flow of money coming into the trust.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: And remember a portion of that money will be return
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: of principle, and a portion of that money will be interest.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: And remember the trustee is allowed to give the in come,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: which is interest to the donor. So mom and Dad
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: could actually be making money. So you see how it's
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: actually an investment that the trust is making. However, you
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: can have language in the trust that says the loan
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: continues at death, or you can have language that says
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: the balance of the loan will be treated as an
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: advancement right yep, to the child.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: So let's say they lend two hundred grand and he
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: pays back one hundred grand, and he still owes one
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: hundred when mom and Dad die.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Good. So if the outstanding you put something in there
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: says the outstanding balance on the loan, I e. One
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand. In your case, Susan, it needs to be
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: treated as an advancement to that particular person, but it
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: will be forgiven. But it's treated as an advancement, meaning
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: it's paid but it comes out of your your share.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: So if there's two kids, there's.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Two kids, and let's say there's a millillion dollars in
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: the trust YEP and it says treat the kids equally,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: but you have this advancement language in there. So in essence,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: what will happen is you will reach into the one
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars and allocate that one hundred thousand into
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: the million excuse me, and allocate that one hundred thousand
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: dollars balance on the outstanding note to the one child
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: who didn't get it got it right because we paid
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: off the note. So now that child is made whole
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: because the other child got relieved of one hundred thousand,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: and then you split the difference. Okay, so you can
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: do all of that. Again, it comes down to drafting, folks,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: And that's really what this guide is all about. This
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: guide to me, is all the mistakes that can be
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: made when drafting, and not just when doing or starting
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: your estate plan, but even after you have it right. Hey,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: if you have a plan for ten years, it's a
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: mistake not to look at it right. If you think
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: you've got your estate plan done, because all you did
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: was a realty trust. Please don't rely on that if
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: you think you've you've got your estate plan done, because
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: all you did is at will. There's so much more
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: you can read about how relying on a will is
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: a big mistake. Folks, life events change. Look at your
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: existing estate plan. There's so much to learn about existing
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: estate plans for people who have them, and to help
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: people who are starting their estate plan to avoid possible
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: mistakes when drafting them. This guy got something for everyone
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: avoiding the estate planning potholes eight six six eight four
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot
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  Speaker 3: com again eight six six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from John in Woober, Mass and
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: John writes, my wife and I created irrevocable trust with
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: your firm and our house was transferred into them. Most
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: of our remaining assets are in annuities, some we are
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: taking income from and some are deferred annuities that we
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: aren't withdrawing anything from. Can these annuities be transferred into
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: our irrevocable trusts? Can we still receive the income?
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Folks? Annuities are very tricky assets. I'm not commenting on
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: whether they're good investments or bad investments. I'm just commenting
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: on their transferability. I've dealt with many insurance companies that
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: have issued annuities that get what I'm about to say,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: and then I've dealt with some that don't get it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: So let's address the question of can they be transferred
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: into an irrevocable trust? First and foremost, If they're qualified
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: annuities meaning they're owned by an IRA, yep, then no,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: they can't be transfered. Okay, So first check that is
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: it qualified, then yes, can't be transferred. If it's non
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: qualified annuity, then it may be transferred. Seventy two U
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: of the ent in a revenue code allows these annuities
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: to be transferred. But here's what you're going to get.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Many insurance companies will say, as soon as you transfer
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: the owner, not the innuittent or anything, just the owner
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: and the beneficiary to a trust, and you assign a
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: new ID number because now it's owned by the trust,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: so it gets the trust tax ID number, they say
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: that assignment of the ID number triggers the taxation event,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: saying you now have technically have to pay all the
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: built up interest on the note because you changed ID numbers.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: The fact of the matter is that's not true. Code
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Section seventy two U states that when you transfer it
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: to a trust that is a grand or trust for
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: income tax purposes, which means even though the ID number change,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: the owner of that trust for income tax purposes is
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: still the person who owned it before.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: So in the eyes of the IRS, John in this
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: case would still be the.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Owner, right. And so because it's the same tax owner,
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: you cannot trigger a new ten ninety nine to be issued.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: You cannot because it's not a taxable event. So this
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: is why I frustrate. I get frustrated with these with
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: these insurance companies. I go, you can't do it if
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: you want to. You're not the government. You can't tax
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: things that aren't taxable. It's that simple. But they don't
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: always get it. So can you do it? Yes, but
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: before you do it, make sure you get an email
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: from the insurance company in writing saying we will not
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: issue a ten ninety nine at the end of the year.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Now you're covered.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And I would think that it matters if you're taking
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: income from it already.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Right, if it's making monthly payments, then it's harder to
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: put in there because each payment has a portion of
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: principle and a portion of interests right, and you're not
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: going to know which is which, and it's going to
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: be really hard for you to separate. Folks. This is
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: all part of planning. Get the guide. It's brand new
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: for the month. Basically potholes to avoid in your estate planning.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Don't rely on a will, don't rely on see if
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: your trust has been funded you don't know, look it over,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: check it out, don't rely on nominee realty trusts. And
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: when life events change, act call and get the guide
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: on the ass Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: a financial ADA advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: be right back with more on the Legal Exchange with
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Creating an estate plan can be a difficult process if
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: you aren't working with an expert who can make sure
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: your plan is secure. Cushing and Dolan can help. Call
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: them today at eight six six eight four eight five
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: six nine nine. Estate planning is their business, and their
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: new monthly guide is called Detour a head estate planning
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: blunders to avoid. Don't put your assets at risk and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: open yourself up to severe tax consequences. Even if you
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: already have a plan, this guide may correct an issue
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that could come back to haunt you in the years
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to come. Proper estate planning is crucial to you being
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: able to enjoy your later years, and it may be
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: the difference between retiring comfortably or living under incredible financial pressure.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan right now at eight sixty six
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninet nine and get your
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: free guide today that's eight six six eight four eight
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or requested online from their website
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: in The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Lan.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan, ind or Armstrong Advisory may contact you're
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Armstrong do not
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: endorse each other and are not affiliated. The United States
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  Speaker 5: This is Michael Valila, adjudent of the Disabled American Veterans
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  Speaker 5: Department of Massachusetts. We focus on the people returning from service,
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  Speaker 5: not their specific illness or injury. Our number one goal
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  Speaker 5: visiting dav five k dot Boston. That's dav five k
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  Speaker 4: A solid financial plan has many layers, and trusts are
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: often a core piece.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Hi.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Understanding
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: the various kinds of trust that exist can be extremely
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: beneficial to your strategy. If you're retired or nearing retirement age,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: a trust may help you with a wide range of
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: issues such as asset protection, tax efficiency, and avoiding probate.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: Call us today at eight hundred three nine three four
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: zero zero one and ask for our new guide called
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Trusts and your Financial Plan. We'll discuss a number of
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: different trusts in the areas in which they may help,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: and how to determine which one may be right for you,
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: even if you already have a trust in place. This
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: guide can provide a description of certain issues that may
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: arise and could help you decide if changes are needed.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Call us today at eight hundred three nine three four
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: zero zero one and get your guide today, or you
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: can request the guide online at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: If you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: call Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninet nine and let him make sure
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: your assets are protected. That's eight six six eight four
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: eight five six nine nine, or visit him online at
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So, a state planning potholes, a state
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: planning mistakes that you want to avoid. I think that
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: a big one, Todd, and one that's in this guide
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: is assuming that your trust has been funded. Yeah, so
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: going through the process of creating your trust and not
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: actually moving anything into it. So I think if we
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: can start first by discussing how you actually go about
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: funding your trust. So let's start with a big acid
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: real estate. A lot of people have real estate. How
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: do you actually get it into your trust?
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: So you're right, this is a great topic to begin
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: with because this affects people who are not only doing
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: their estate plan. Please fund it, But all of you
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: who have done your estate plan, you might want to
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: go back and check to see if you in fact
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: funded it after you created it. One way to check
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: real estate tax bill. So look at the real estate
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: tax bill if you've already done your planning, and see
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: if it comes in the name of a trust or
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: if it comes in your own personal name. Now, if
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: it comes in your own personal name, odds are it's
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: not in the trust, and.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: It can take a little while for it to be
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: updated in the records, right, Yeah.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: It can take about a year sometimes for the town
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: to catch up to the registry of deeds. Yep, So
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: don't always jump to that conclusion.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: What about the folks that say, oh, my kid's own
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: my house, now it comes in their name.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you got to be careful about that. So
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: again the type of trust. First of all, how do
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: you get it in the trust? You get it in
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: by preparing a deed. I kind of skipped over the attorney. Yeah,
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: the attorney prepares a deed transferring the property into the trust,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: and then you'll see it by the tax billy. But
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: you're right. So here you know, Okay, what if it
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: comes in the name of the kids, Well it won't.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: It would normally say children. And then you got to
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: look trust E, so it might say Todd trust D
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: or e T t E E the name of the trust.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: So yeah, my name appears there. Yeah, but I'm not
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: the owner. So your kid's name could appear there, but
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: they're not the owner. They're just trust D of the trust.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it all doesn't fit on the on the lane,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: on the line for the real estate tax bill. So
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: please don't think your kid owns it just because his
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: name's unless, of course, you gave it to them and
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: you didn't use a trust.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't want to do that.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: But if you know you use a trust, yeah, and
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: you see the name there, go back and check the
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: trust and see if that kid's name is also the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: trust eye. If they are, then probably you're okay. But
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: if you've never done a trust and you see the
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: kid's name there, they're likely you gave it to them.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Right. So a lot of attorneys do prepare that d
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: need for their clients to transfer real estate in, but
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: then a lot of times it's up to the clients
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: to actually move those liquid assets in. And that's where
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I think the ball can certainly be dropped because they
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: might have investment accounts or bank accounts, So the process
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: of doing that, it's kind of on their own if
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: they're not working with an advisor, correct.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Kind of. I mean the lawyer should push them along,
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: but you're right, they need the advisor sometimes too. So
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: we put together funding instructions and we explain to them.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: And so let's say they were working with you, Susan
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: in essence, we would get the name of the financial advisor,
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: we would get the phone number, and we would simply
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: tell the client, please tell them it's okay to talk
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: to us, Yes, and then we get in touch with
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: the financial advisor. We send over the documents and we
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: say please transfer the accounts as follows and give them
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: a copy of the trust and we give them the verbiage.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: And that's usually it, and it's done. The person does
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: the financial advisor changes the titling on the account. Client's happy,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: everyone's happy, it's all done. They sign a few documents
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: for a bank doesn't work so well. So for the bank,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: we have to just tell them what to do, and
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: that's what we put in the funding instructions. But that's
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: how you fund it, folks. One of the planning potholes,
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: as Susan said in this brand new guide for the month,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: is just that make sure your trust is funded. Other
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: things to think about. Have I done planning ten years,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: fifteen years ago? Pull it off the shelf, take a
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: look at it. Maybe I need to update things. Good
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: thing to do. Please don't rely on a nominee realty
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: trust thinking you have all your estate plan done. Don't
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: rely on a will think about what to do if
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: life events happen, like divorces or a spouse's death or
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: a kid's divorce. Folks call and get the guide. Good
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: for good for people who have done they're planning, and
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: good for people who have not done their planning yet.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: Eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Show dot Com.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: I want to step back to bank accounts for one minute, Todd,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: because I just want to have you clarify all, Like,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: let's say they're doing irrevocable trusts. Okay, all bank accounts
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: would go into the trust.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: Good question. So no, when you're doing this, First of all,
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: we never with irrevocable trust put all assets in. We
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: always leave some out, even non qualified money, we leave
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: some out. So and the one particular account we always
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: leave out is the account that they do all their
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: checking and paying bills out of. And it's usually the
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: one that gets their social security deposits pensions and so
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: right the pension. So those are the ones that we
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: leave out because you can't have those in the trust.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: And every time it gets direct deposited into the trust.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: You got a new five year waiting period, so please
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: don't make that mistake. Yep, keep it out. And even
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: with revocable trust, sometimes clients like to leave their regular
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: bank account. They're operating bank account outside the trust. And
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: if it's joint, that's fine. My advice is just keep
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: you know, small money in it, you know, twenty grand
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: or something.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Just throw a beneficiary on there. Yeah, you know, which
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: can be your trust too, It can be sure, it
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: can be. So what happens if you don't fund your trust? Hard?
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Is it all wasted? I mean it's probably a different
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: response for revocable versus the very evocable trust trust kind
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: of the you know, the how much harm you've done?
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: So let's let's run through it slowly. The first one
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: would be the revocable trust. If you have absolutely nothing
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: in there, you did indeed your house and you didn'tdeed
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: the property, and you left all your bank accounts out.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Likely if you're married, then everything would probably be joint.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: So the joint bank accounts, the joint investment accounts, the
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: house would be joint. And so to your point, you know,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: is it all wasted? Yeah? Uh? Probably right, because if
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: you don't shelter anything in the trust on the first death,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: you're definitely wasting your Massachusetts or your state exemption, maybe
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: not the federal exemption. You could elect portability and try
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: to save the unused exemption, but it kind of is
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: a waste because you're not cramming anything down. You're not
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: sheltering the future growth from being taxed later when the
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: survivor dies. So yeah, I'm gonna say pretty much, we're.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Not going to reduce your estate tax liability.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much a waste on the revocable side.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, what about if you're doing irrevocable trust planning, because
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: we have run into folks where they've done airevocable trust
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: planning and you meet sit down with them and meet
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: them because mom or dad are going into the nursing
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: home and there's nothing in there.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so it's probably a double whammy, complete waste,
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: right because again, if you don't do planning and everything's
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: jointly owned, just like the scenario I laid out for
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: the revocable trust, that same situation would occur. You would
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: be wasting exemption. You wouldn't be sheltering assets on the
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: first death. So yes, you've kind of wasted that piece,
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: the same as with the revocable trust. But when I
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: say it's a double whammy, by the same token, if
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: you have done this years and years ago and you
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: get sick a year before you die and you spend
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: a year in the nursing home, these assets would not
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: be protected from the nursing home because you never would
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: have started the five year waiting period because you didn't
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: put the assets in. So you're kind of hurting yourself
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: on two fronts with that.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: So I know we're running out of time here, But
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: is there anything that can be done after the fact
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: if a spouse dies and you haven't funded your trust.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: There may be there may be a way to do disclaimers, right,
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: So a disclaimer is simply a way of denying what
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: you want and then it would go through the will.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: And if the will doesn't have if the will has
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: a poor over trust, I mean, if the will, then
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: we'll get into the trust and you'll be able to
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: shelter it. So check into some post morning planning call
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: and ask yes for sure. Meanwhile, call and get the
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: brand new guide how to avoid a state planning potholes.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: There's about twelve different things that exist here, something for
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: people who have planned and something for people who have
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: not eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange show dot Com.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan, always pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us and we'll
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: be back again next week on the Legal Exchange with
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky in the state.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Plan can be a difficult process if you aren't working
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: with an expert who can make sure your plan is secure.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan can help. Call them today at eight
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine. Estate
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: planning is their business and their new monthly guide is
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: called Detour a head estate planning blunders to avoid. Don't
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: put your assets at risk and open yourself up to
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: severe tax consequences. Even if you already have a plan,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: this guide may correct an issue that could come back
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: to haunt you in the years to come. Proper estate
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: planning is crucial to you being able to enjoy your
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: later years, and it may be the difference between retiring
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: comfortably or living under incredible financial pressure. Call Cushing and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight sixty six eight four, eight
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: five six ninet nine and get your free guide today
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: that's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: or request an online from their website Legal exchange show
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: dot com. The proceeding was paid for in The views
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Dolan ind or Armstrong Advisory may contact you are offering
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: legal or investment services. Cushing and Armstrong do not endorse
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: each other and are not affiliated. HI.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. A
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: state and financial plan and go hand in hand, and
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: one of the most common ways to keep that bond
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: secure is with a trust. Our new guide called Trusts
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: in your Financial Plan, is available right now. In it,
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: we'll discuss the various types of trusts that exist and
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: how they might benefit your planning process. Trust provide a
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: number of different protections for your assets, including privacy control
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: and tax efficiency. If you're retired or nearing retirement and
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: have concerns about your financial strategy and whether or not
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: a trust may help, call us today at eight hundred
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: three nine three four zero zero one and ask for
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: your free guide called Trusts and your Financial Plan Learn
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: about how a trust could make a difference for you
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: and your family by calling eight hundred three nine three
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: four zero zero one. That number again is eight hundred
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: three nine three four zero zero one, or you can
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: request the guide from Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
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