Latest / The Kulturecast / Changeover: Digger (2026) — "When all else fails, you hit 'em with the truth. Hit 'em with the hard truth."

Transcript

Changeover: Digger (2026) — "When all else fails, you hit 'em with the truth. Hit 'em with the hard truth." · The Kulturecast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: We're in Wayne Media. mother nature she loved to win we.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Have a situation 18 trillion dollars millions across europe is
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: that all the bad news there's the nuclear race too.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Digger here got us into this mess and digger's gonna
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: dig us out i'm the one who's gonna keep us
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: all from sinking into chaos through this iceberg let's dash.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Welcome to a special crossover episode between The Projection Booth
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: and The Culture Cast. I'm your host, Mike White, and
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: doing double duty as he does so many of our
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: other shows, joining me is Mr. Chris Stashue, host of
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: The Culture Cast.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: When all else fails, you hit him with the truth.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Hit him with the hard truth. Just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Woo-woo! We are crossing the streams tonight to talk about Digger.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: The apocalyptic satire Alejandro G. Inuratu carried around in his
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: head for 10 years before Tom Cruise finally agreed to
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: play it. Cruise is Bigger Rockwell, an oil tycoon who
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: torches his own Arctic rig and then races to convince
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: the world he's the only one that can fix it.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: That's not true. An oil tycoon who loses his Arctic
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: rig or Greenland rig, I suppose, and then races to
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: convince the world that he can solve the problem. He's
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: got John Goodman as the dictatorial president who seems to
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: like red ties. I don't know what that's all about.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Riz Ahmed as his scientist at hand and a visibly
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: disintegrating white cat standing in for the planet itself. Critics
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: are split almost exactly down the middle on this one.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: It bombed pretty hard. Cruz is already drawing comparisons for
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Lions for Lambs with this one. Just kidding. We will
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: be spoiling this movie as we go along, so if
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: you haven't seen it, turn it off. Go find a
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: VistaVision screen. Just a regular screen is fine. You can
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: watch it there. Go see it at a theater, maybe.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that. We'll see if it's worth your
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Six dollars? How much are movies in Nebraska?
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Six dollars? Where the fuck are you watching movies?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: 1982?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I guess Detroit's good. Sunday morning in Detroit, yeah. I
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: guess a matinee is probably like eight bucks.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: For us on Tuesdays, five bucks. But on a Sunday,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: six something. So yeah, it was less than seven bucks.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: So Chris.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: What does a banana cost in this day and age?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Ten dollars?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Do I have to show my ID when I go
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: grocery shopping?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: That's right. Not yet. But soon. Yeah, that's right.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Chris, what did you think of Digger?
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: So sans spoilers, which we will get to. Yes, we will.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I loved this movie. My God in heaven. I don't
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: know if you did, but this was just this is
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the kind of bizarre that I can get on board with.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I 100% understand why people did not go see this movie.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I completely understand why this movie is polarizing, actually. I
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: have seen this film compared to Don't Look Up, which, yikes.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Comparing that film to this film, I get it, but
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: this is a movie, not a joke like that film. See,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I just proved my point. Don't Look Up, I don't
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: even understand the point of that movie. I mean, it was,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: this movie can be and is at times heavy-handed. I mean,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I think we would both agree. But at least it's entertaining.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: At least there are performances that people are not just
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: phoning it in. Tom Cruise is doing, you know what?
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is doing something in this movie. If you
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: don't vibe with what it is, I get it. But
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the character that he's playing is it's very realistic. It's
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: very realistic, but a fantastical realism adjacent. It reminded me
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of Bo is Afraid. But I think the
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: thing that it reminded me the most of and, you know,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you tell me kind of how far off I am.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Didn't Iteratu already make this film with Birdman?
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he kind of did.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is Birdman. Again, I don't want to
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: spoil the twist of the movie, but I also don't...
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: It was funny, Brian Renfrow of Movie Meltdown, he and
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I were talking about this movie because he knew that
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you and I were covering it, and we watched the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: last trailer together, and he was like, oh, so the
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: movie takes place in that entire boardroom, huh? And I
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, it kind of seems that way, not
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: realizing that there was a plot reason for that. not
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: realizing that there was a plot mechanic that they were
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: trying to hide about the movie. And I didn't know
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: the twist going into it. I don't think you knew
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the twist going into it because the film intentionally hid
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: what the twist was. And I applaud the movie for
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: doing that because it would have completely made what I
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: perceived this movie to be ahead of time worthwhile. 100%
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: different and I think I was willing to get on
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: board with the movie from that that moment there's a
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: scene in the movie where you're just like what in
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the fuck is happening and it's like oh OK, got it.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I got on board. I feel like if you don't
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: get on board, you're not going to enjoy this movie
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: at all. Like, I think you will find this movie
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: to be even more frustrating than, you know, it kind
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of feeling pandering and or preachy and or both. But
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. And I'm going to be in that
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: 50 percent camp that's on the side of Tom Cruise,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Right Choice, Inuratu. interesting film heavy-handed yeah topical yes will
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: it hold up 10 years from now I don't know
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I hope so Tom Cruise's performance is weird enough I
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: think to hold up and Tom Cruise I think Tom
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Cruise makes such normal choices for the most part that
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: every now and then when he does a weird thing
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: like this or vanilla sky or eyes wide shut or
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: tropic thunder when he makes a weird choice it It
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: is worth showing up for, which is why I showed
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: up to the theater to watch this Tom Cruise film,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: unlike every other film that he's released for the last decade.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't go see any of the Mission Impossible films
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: in theaters. They'll be goddamned if I go see Top
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Gun Maverick in theaters. So, but I showed up for this.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: So count me as part of the, like, no money
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: that the movie made. What about you, Mr. Mike White?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: The jury's still out for me on this one. I mean,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: you hit the nail on the head when it comes to,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: didn't he already do this? And it only, well.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: He being Inuratu?
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Inuratu, yeah.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Or Tom Cruise? No. I mean, he kind of already
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: did this with Les Grossman. He did kind of do the,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go under makeup and be unrecognizable. He's
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: more recognizable here, and they're not trying to trick anybody
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: in this movie.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the hair is definitely not Tom Cruise's hair.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But the face, it's like, I don't want to be indelicate,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: but I've seen some pictures of Tom Cruise lately where
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: he doesn't look that great. And there were times in
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: here where I'm looking at his face. We've got some
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: really good closeups and I'm just like, his face looks
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: younger here than it does in normal life. So it's
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: kind of, kind of strange that way where I was
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: just like, okay, yeah, he looks, it looks pretty good here.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Like looks better than he does when he's just, you know,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: telling us that we need to save cinema and go
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: back to the movies and see tenant.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. Thank you. Tenant is back. Tom Cruise
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: said so. Right.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. Um, this is a very broad performance and yes,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I was getting a lot of less gross men. Um,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I had fun with his performance. I had some fun with, well,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: pretty much all the performances. I think Riz Ahmed was
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: probably my favorite of all of these folks. It's interesting seeing, um,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to forget her name right now, but
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: it was interesting seeing the lady who was just in
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: anatomy of a fall and, um, Oh, what's that one
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: with Ryan Gosling? I liked it a lot. Uh, the
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: space one that they just did project hail Mary. And
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: it's like, I feel like I just saw her in
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: project hail Mary. So I was just like, yeah. And
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, Oh my, is she like the flavor
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: of the month here? But she's great.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Email Pedro, Pedro Pascal. Right.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Yes. But I really like her and that was great
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: seeing her in this, but yeah, it's, I mean, we're
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: going to have to talk about the twist pretty soon,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: but once the twist came, then I was just like, oh, okay.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I know what's happening here. This is a much more
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: generic movie once the twist happens, because I'm like, oh, okay,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: now you've really also done this before. But at the
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: same time, I think it takes away the preachiness of
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the movie and recontextualizes it in a way that I
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: think is much more interesting. than if this was just
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: being played straight. And I feel like our conversation, once
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: we talk spoilers, may drift into the kind of antithesis
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: of the conversation we had about Alex Garland's Civil War,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: where it's like, the movie didn't do what we expected,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: and that's the disappointment. This movie didn't do what I expected,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of a benefit.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I agree with that. I love the world of this film.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I think this movie is art-directed like nobody's business. I
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: really love the sound design. I love how the world
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: of this movie is kind of falling apart and we
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: don't really know why it's falling apart for a long time,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: but like when he goes in and he's addressing basically
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: like the European Union. and I'm just like when he's
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: in that room that's adjacent to the big conference room
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the big speech room like the holes in the ceiling
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the buckets that are catching water I'm just like oh
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: boy what the hell's going on here like is this
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: just saying how bad europe is after reality creeping in
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: that was my perception right and because there's another scene
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: where there's i'm just sitting there going wait a second
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: is there a hole in the ceiling like what is
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: happening here and then that they actually use that hole
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: for something else i was like i'll Okay, yeah. I
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: think it's very, very clever. I think it's very well directed.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I was getting a lot of Yorgos Lanthimos vibes, and
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's just because Emma Stone was
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: in Birdman and Jesse Plemons is in this one.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Jesse Plemons is in a lot of Yorgos Lanthimos stuff.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: He was in the last Yorgos Lanthimos film, wasn't he?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. He was in Bougonia. I was getting a
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: little Bougonia vibe. I was getting a little poor things
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: as well. I think that's because of the world building
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: and especially the world of Digger Rockwell and just this
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: crazy mansion that he's in having fucking alligators stuck up
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: on the ceiling. I mean, it is just the most
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: garish mansion ever. that you'll ever see. I mean, he
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: is a very, very tacky person and he's very real
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: life to, because he's such a tacky person and really just,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: this does really skewer just so much of what's going
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: on right now, but in such a better way. I'm, I'm,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I'm sad that I didn't think of the don't look
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: now comparison, but this is so much better than don't
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: look now. I mean, that was just so self-aware and
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: self-congratulatory and just self, I love, Oh, I love the
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: smell of my own farts.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And I think also some of that comes from, and boy,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to take a roasting for this, but you
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: know what? I feel like I've talked about it privately
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: enough that I can say it out loud. No speak
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: truth to power. I don't like Leonardo DiCaprio. If you're
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: going to make me watch a movie like this with
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: a quote, big name actor, unquote, working with a big name, like,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: auteur director. I don't want to watch one with Leonardo
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: DiCaprio in it. I just, he feels, and same with,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: same with, I think, Joaquin Phoenix. It's like, all this
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: guy does is love the smell of his own farts. Like,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like, he's absorbed the smell of his own farts,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: and it's become part of his being. And I'm not
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: saying Tom Cruise isn't like that, but Tom Cruise makes
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: all sorts of bullshit movies all the time. Like, This
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: this is antithetical to the kinds of movies he normally makes.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You know, to go back to Tropic Thunder and to
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: talk about Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder in a film
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: that's actively making fun of Tom Cruise throughout the entire movie. Look,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: divorce the Scientology away from Tom Cruise for a moment here.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I do think Tom Cruise has a fair amount of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: self-awareness about himself and his place in the world, his
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: ability to make things in the world not adapt to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: his wants and needs and wills, but he's powerful enough
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: as a human being, right? He has enough sway that
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: he can pick and choose things and he has sway
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: over other people that he can make things happen. He
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: has a level of self-awareness about that. I think that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of people like that don't. And I think
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: some of it comes from having worked in the entertainment
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: industry where a lot of the people in the entertainment
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: industry who are at their best have a sense of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: humor about themselves. And they're able to not take themselves seriously.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: And Tom Cruise always strikes me as a guy who
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: can not take himself seriously. And I think that the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Tropic Thunder of it all was a very big indication
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: of that. But I do think this film is an
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: even bigger indication of that. Because for me... You would
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: not do this movie if you had a self-serious nature
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: about yourself, because not only is this Tom Cruise sending
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: up and kind of skewering, like you said, billionaires a la,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and let's just get it out in the open here,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Mark Zuckerberg, and all
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the other ones who are... Because again, this is the
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: other thing. The thing I find funny, and again, the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: twist of the movie notwithstanding, the world of Digger knows
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: who Digger Rockwell is. And we, in our own universe,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: know who these people are. but we don't know what
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: they think about themselves and we will never know if
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: they ever have any truth to what they like think
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: about themselves because you can't trust what they say. But,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: something like this, a fictional version, being able to speak
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: about those things. And we get to see those struggles
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and internal strife and just like how they react to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: their brain going sideways and becoming dementia ridden. Like we
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: will never get to know what any of that will
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: look like for any of these horrible billionaires that exist now,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: but getting to see what is effectively a billionaire actor
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: skewering them and himself at the same time. Like, I,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry if this is like heady and up its
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: own ass, but, Some movies are allowed to do that, genuinely.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm not going to say Inuratu is a modern-day
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick, but he's attempting to be, because I think
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: anyone who's an auteur, writer, director, working with big stars
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: like this is attempting to do what Stanley Kubrick did,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: which so many other directors have done, which is find
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: an actor who has the range of Tom Cruise or
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Robert De Niro or... or Al Pacino and get that
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: range out of them in a movie. And this movie,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I think, shows that Tom Cruise actually, again, I'm not
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: surprised that he has range, but when you work with
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the right director, the right actor's range is just, it's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: imperceivable on a scale. And I think Tom Cruise in
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: this movie, it's like willing to make fun of yourself,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: willing to make fun of other people, and willing to
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: have a self-awareness about all of it to go, okay,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I know when to pull back and not to overcommit
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: to some of the kind of beats in the movie
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: that would make this movie, I think, completely unapproachable for
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: most people. I think this movie is going to find
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: its audience once it's out of theaters because the thing
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I ultimately, the real problem I have with this movie,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: why the fuck was this movie so expensive? Why is
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: this coming out in theaters? Why does this have a
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: popcorn bucket for it? Like, it is none of those things.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not. And I think there's a lot of butthurt
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: around that. And I saw people complaining like, whoa, Tom
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Cruise's big gamble just didn't pay off. And, oh, it
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: took up all these rooms in theaters when it could
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: have been a smaller independent arthouse movie that was taking
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: that room instead. I'm like, well, where's the independent arthouse movie?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure that my theater... had enough room to
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: show the independent art house movie it's not like he
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: kicked this movie out of you know like okay theater
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: two was going to go to this small budget indie
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: you know flavorful thing oh but no tom cruise needs
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: theater too so that's where he's going to put uh
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: digger and it's like no that's that's not how this
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: stuff works you know like yeah and the other thing
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: was like oh this is the last big warner brothers
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: thing and they you know now they're going to get
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: absorbed by paramount and How dare they use this as
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: like the last Warner Brothers film. I'm like, what is
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: your fucking problem? Like, are you worried about the provenance
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: of Warner Brothers movies going forward? Like, why are you
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: concerned about that?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry I don't give a fuck about Warner Brothers who
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: jettisoned Acme versus Coyote. A film, by the way, I
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: didn't do an episode on. You clearly saw as well
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: as I did. Or I don't know. I'm assuming you
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: saw it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it yet, no.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You need to watch it because it's fucking amazing, by
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the way. It made its money back, you dipshits at
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Go fuck yourselves. Like, I have... I'm sorry.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I have no fucking sympathy for Warner Brothers and I
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: don't care. You jettisoned Looney Tunes, you assholes. Like, that's...
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Put that shit on a box somewhere. For real. Like,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You jettisoned Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck? Wow.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You know what I can give Disney credit for? Never
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: doing that with Mickey Mouse. Like, can you imagine Disney
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: just being like, eh, fuck it, a Mickey Mouse movie.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Who cares? Like, Warner Brothers are willing to throw anything
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: on the pyre to keep themselves warm at night. And
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: you know what? Like Riz Ahmed says in this film, like,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: he would burn your children alive if he thought he
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: could make a profit. Like, It's ironic that Warner Brothers
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: released this movie. given that we are friends with someone,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Richard Haddam, we work with him, who worked on TV
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that was affected by decisions Warner Brothers made because of
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: them shelving Batgirl. He was literally writing a show that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: was affected by them shelving Batgirl. Like, guys, and it
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: was because they, because what, they didn't think they were
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: gonna make money on a movie with a superhero in it? Like,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: maybe that willed out with Supergirl, but that movie still
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: made money. You know what doesn't make money? A product
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: you can't sell. because you choose not to sell it.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: It wasn't effective. It wasn't killing people like lettuce.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: You mentioned Kubrick, and I definitely was thinking of Dr.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Strangelove through a lot of this, through some of the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: sets that they have, some of the interactions that they have.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: The way that the president is portrayed reminded me, of course,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: the president in Dr. Strangelove is very milquetoast, but it
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: There are moments where I'm just like, this reminds me of,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: you know, gentlemen, gentlemen, you know, there's no fighting in
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: the war room kind of thing. It's about that level
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: of parody skewering of things that are going on. And yeah,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I like that they are actually going after the billionaires
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: because I think part of the problem when it came
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: to Don't Look Up was it felt like it was
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: skewering the people that actually care about things. I felt
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: personally insulted by that movie where I was just like, oh,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it sounds like you are shitting on me. and not
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the people that are actually in charge of all this stuff.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Whereas with this one, it is very much talking about
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: the people that are in charge of things and just
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: how fucked up they are and how much they want profits.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, when they find that this ice shelf in
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Greenland has collapsed and you send in the three scientists
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: to talk with Tom Cruise... you know, he's just like, well,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: what about this? What about this? What about that? And
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: they're like, well, we were concerned about the people. And
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course, the people. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, like you already know by that point.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're only a few minutes into the film
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: and you're just like, well, I know this person. I
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: know that he doesn't give a shit about any of this.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: And especially because he just had that long conversation with
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the guy via the video call. And it's just like,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: you know, oh, this is not important. And how dare you,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you know, interrupt me with all of these things. You know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: the crack is only five feet. That's one 10th of
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: my dick, all this kind of stuff. I'm like this. Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Very less gross men when it comes to some of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: this dialogue that he's throwing out here, very crude kind
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: of stuff. He's not that crude through the entire thing,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: but that runs through him. And then, yeah, you look
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: around this crazy fucking house. And I think that's where
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: most of the money went was the production design, because
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: some of these things, you know, there's a lot of,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: you know, CGI and, uh, some interesting special effects that
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: they're doing, but just to look at like that infinite
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: set of mirrors that goes on with all of the, um, uh, horns, the, the, from,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: from the deers all the way around it, or even the, um,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: he's got a chandelier that has, uh, deer horns, and
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: then he's got a chandelier in his room and you've
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: got that crazy, um, uh, almost, it looks like a, uh,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: a frame for a painting, uh, where the curtain is
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: going up. And I like that there's a real symmetry
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: between that green curtain that goes up at the beginning
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: and then the black curtain that comes down at the end. So,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a very, very well put together film.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, even when it comes to like, when they're
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: in that boardroom that you're talking about earlier, like all
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: of those almost looks like Diego Rivera type murals behind them,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: but it's all industry and it's all oil wells and,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's wild to see just how extensive the
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: production design is on this. And it just goes forever. Like,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: there's no part of this movie where I'm just like, well,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: this is cheap. This doesn't look good. It all looks
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: really fucking good.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Not only does it look good, I think it also,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: like you said, there's a, there's a clearly a world
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: outside of everything that we kind of are seeing initially
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that is very well established, which I really like. It
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: has a sense of being and place and it, like
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you said, it crafts something that's not just something we've
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: seen before. And I think that that's, I don't know,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: like in this day and age, like a lot of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: things we've seen just have that same note to it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I guess the other thing I might compare this to
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit is Mickey 17. Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I was getting some Bong Joon-ho. I can't remember. I'm
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: sorry if I fucked up his name, but I was
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: getting some vibes of him as well.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Right, which I think it's very funny because that film
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: is also skewering American culture as well, and skewering a
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: certain facet, a certain, I would say, greed of American culture,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: or output of greed of American culture, so... I think
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: it's very interesting that both of these films have that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: similar kind of tone. But I mean, again, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: to go back to, you know, my my initial example
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: of Don't Look Up, like I think this film is
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: just I don't know. I just think this film is
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: just so much more interesting than Don't Look Up. It's
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: so much more it's so less obvious. Right. It's actually trying.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: It's not so on the head about everything.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Which is funny to say when you have John Goodman
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: with that red tie and the insanity that he is
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: exhibiting through this whole thing. But at the same time.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: You have Tom Cruise in a wig and a thing
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and a rich guy as well.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: But that twist... tempers all of that by should we
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And i was gonna say so from spoilers from here
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: on out i think if you are thinking about seeing
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the movie please do not listen from this point out
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: not because i mode spoilers or everything but it it
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: is a spoiler best enjoyed during the movie because it
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: actually recontextualizes the entire movie not one of these like
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: bullshit twists at the end this is a twist that
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: happens in the first 30 minutes of the movie in
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a two hour film.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Right And yeah, like you said, I was genuinely surprised.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: When this happens, I was like, oh. okay what's going
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: on now this is suddenly interesting.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah wild too the way that they frame that twist
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the shot framing i was like what the fuck is
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: happening in this movie all of a.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Sudden like yeah that almost felt terry gilliam-esque the way
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: that this.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Center for ants i thought it was like i was
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: like how is this happening what is going on here.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Right so we should just say it flat out Tom
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Cruise is dead through this entire movie. Yeah.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, Tom Cruise is his own father.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Right. He's traveled through time.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: No.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: So what is the twist is fucking fantastic. I love
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: when the tree just falls over. And I'm like, what
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: the hell is happening? Because you get these great shots
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: of the outside and they are playing with the artificiality
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: of the outside world, even some of the inside world.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And when you see that tree... And then Bob
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Newhart wakes up. Yeah, exactly. He's like, oh, was this
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: a dream? And he looks at Tom Cruise and he's like,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: it was all a dream, Bob.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then Patrick Ewing comes out of the shower.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: It was wild. Patrick Ewing!
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The basketball player?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Well, isn't that... J.R.? Well, no, but it's his brother.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought it was the basketball player. No, no.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: So I think I'm mixing up Patrick Duffy, who is
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: the actor, with whatever Ewing, because it was J.R. Ewing
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and this was his brother.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: But I now just want to see a version where
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: it's Patrick Ewing, the basketball player for the Knicks coming out.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: He was in The Exorcist 3. Sure, there you go. Yeah,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Sorry, Mike, not to keep making a joke.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: What is the actual twist of Digger?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So there's a demon that passes between all of these
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: guys when they whistle a song.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, I was trying to think
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: of like, what would be the most absurd twist for
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: this to be? And it's like, you know, yeah, that's
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: probably pretty close.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: So the reason why we keep bringing up Birdman, it's
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: not because this is some, you know, experiment that everything
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: is going to try to look like one continuous shot. Instead,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: it's that this is all a play. Now, this is
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: the most elaborate play ever filmed ever. Like, there is
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: no fucking way that this is a play. But that
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: is what we're supposed to believe, is that what we've
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: been seeing this whole time is a play. And we
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: suddenly go in and out.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: A dress rehearsal for a play.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yes. Dress rehearsal for a play. Their technical rehearsal is
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: what they're calling it. So they're really trying to make
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: sure that all the special effects are working. And so
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: then it becomes, oh, Tom Cruise doesn't have his Digger
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: accent in this scene. Okay, he's not actually Digger at all.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: He's this other guy. Interesting. Okay, what the hell is
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: going on here? Now, the subplot when it comes to
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: the daughter being missing because of a flight, who gives
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: a shit? I don't care one iota about any of
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: that stuff. I guess it just gives him more of
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: a heart as the actor because there are times where
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, you're perfect for this role because you
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: are so self-centered and okay, you never really get to
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: know him as the actor character. You mostly get to
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: know him as the digger character. You do get to
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: see that he is not this a-hole all the time,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that that is a role that he's playing. But once
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: they get back into the play, you kind of forget
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: it again. It's not like you're suddenly surprised again when
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: they go, oh, no, we're back out of the play.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, okay. You start to suddenly remember and
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: you're like, okay, no, this is all an act.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: But Is it?
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Is it not?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Like, what are we seeing here? So I appreciate what
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: they're doing with that twist, though, by making this a play.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: That's where it's just like, OK, I'm Birdman. I've seen
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: this before.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Can I float an idea here? Sure. This is just me.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: This is just me waxing poetically about a movie that
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I resonated with a little bit more than I resonate
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: with most things. Is the movie also not a play on...
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Is this not just Tom Cruise, also meant to just
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: be Tom Cruise? Because we never even see what he
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: looks like without the Digger makeup on. And there is
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: an implication at one point where we see prosthetics, that
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: this is not also... necessarily what he looks like on
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: a day-to-day basis. I mean, yes, this is a kind
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: of a send-up and parody of billionaires, but I also
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: think Tom Cruise is kind of, once again, and I
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: mention this because of the Birdman of it all, I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: think it's also a send-up of actors and acting. Because
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: like you've already mentioned, this idea of he has a
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: daughter who's coming to visit him, and she's flying across
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the ocean, and then her plane gets lost, but he's
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: able to find her because he gets in bed with
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the billionaires. Is that not also just the like, Well,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: even we are not beyond indulging the same way that
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: these people did and being, like you said, self-centered and
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: wanting what we want. and you know I think of
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: the film Contagion where it's like, well, sorry, Kate Winslet,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: we can't get you back here because the senator is
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: using the plane to get back here and having one
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of their own family members flown here. And it's like, oh,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: so privilege is always extended to people, but it doesn't
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: feel like privilege extended to someone when we like them,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: when we are worried about them, when something bad has
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: happened to them. It doesn't feel like a bad extension
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: of privilege because we're going out of our way to
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: help them. No one calls it that. And so it's
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: always one of those things where privilege Privilege is interpreted
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: from two perspectives, from the person who's not getting the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: thing and then the person who's getting the thing or
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: doing the thing. They may not view it as privilege.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: They may not see it that way. And I like
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: that this movie also, it's kind of like there's meta
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: within meta of stuff going on because I don't feel
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: like you have something like that in the movie without
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: there being a reason for having it.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Well, when you show me two full head masks that
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: this actor wears, is allegedly wearing one of them right now,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: and the actor is Tom Cruise, of course you're thinking
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Mission Impossible. Right.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Also that. Yeah. Again, it's like it is a movie
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: as much about Tom Cruise as an actor as it
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: is about billionaire. Like, again, I don't think it's like
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Citizen Kane, but I think it's somewhat Citizen Kane adjacent.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I would say the best comparison for this movie is
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: imagine if Citizen Kane was the framing device for it
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: was a stage play. It's I mean, and then I
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: think for me, the twist that actually is a really
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: interesting one. And it's again, it's the meta meta nature
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: of the movie is. Digger's real nephew is financing a
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: play about his uncle who destroyed the world and that
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: is an interesting twist within a twist because it's speaking
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to the meta narrative but the meta meta narrative within
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the film as well.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah that is that second twist where you're just
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: like whoa okay and it's Jesse Plemons so he's able
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: to pull that off like nobody's business he is without
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: a doubt for me, the most fascinating person in this film.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And he just, I love the way that he's hanging
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: in the background through a lot of this and he'll
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: show up. And of course, Jimmy, Jeremy, Jesse Plemons slays
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: a creep like nobody's business. So you're just like, is
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: he just a creep or is he have something going
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: on here? Or is he maybe like a, reporter who's
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: trying to get the scoop on this thing so it's
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: not until he really comes out and talks about it
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: where you're just like oh okay and when you You know,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: he like has a name for the play. We get
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: to see that later on. We get to see the
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: poster for the play. We get to see the reaction.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I love it. Yes.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Fools.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: God.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: But that feels very Dr. Strangelove. That feels very like
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: it's a nail on the head. But again, it's so
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: like exaggerated that it works.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Right. Right. Well, yeah. I mean, you do get to
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: see some of the mechanics of the play within the play,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: like when they finally make that break. And the first
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: break of it is, you know, it follows a pretty
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: strong three act structure. It's about 30 minutes into this, that,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: that tree falls over and then you get that giant person.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: It looks like a giant person coming out of the
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: behind the tree and replanting it. And you're just like,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: what the hell's going on? That's where I was like,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: this feels very Terry Gilliam to me to see this
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: giant person come out. And then you're like, oh, this
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: is all video projection.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And you get to see some of these things like
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: the floor spinning and all this kind of stuff. And
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: it also helps when you know that it's a play
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: because then you look at things like when he addresses,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I have to guess it's the EU because it's Europe
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: as a contingency. Right. And when they go to that,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and I love how everyone is dressed in the very
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: drab clothes. They all look like they are basically the
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: same person. But when you get some of those shots
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: and you're looking around, you're just like, there are tons
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: of mannequins in this room. What is going on here? Like,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: why is that person a mannequin? And why is that
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: person a mannequin? And it's like, oh, they're just saving
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: money because this is a play. And then it's like, okay,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: now I got it. But it's very funny, especially when
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: it breaks out into chaos and everybody is moving except
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: for like that person, that person, that, you know, and
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: you're just like, what is, oh, okay. They're all mannequins.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I was actually looking for like those, weird creepy uh
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: asian cgi creatures that were in that disney movie that
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: were like you know clapping in the stands kind of
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: thing i don't know if you're familiar with that but
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: they used some very early cg body doubles for stuff
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: and it was just a nightmare fuel i thought at
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: first like oh is he trying to do that to
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: like you know get the crowd bigger than it is
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: but no it's like no this is a play and
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: these are just ways of getting you some more bodies
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: in this forum.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I love the reveal because, like you said, it makes...
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: It just makes the... It makes the whole film work.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: It actually makes it a film worth watching. And again,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I go back to this idea of who is Tom
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Cruise playing in this movie? Well, I think he's playing himself,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: who's playing a role of an actor who is in
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: a satire about a person who ruined the world in
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: this world. And the whole world is having to deal
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: with this one person's decisions. and Tom Cruise's character, Curtis Markson,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: which by the way, I'm just going to keep calling
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: him Tom Cruise because I'm just going to call him
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise because he's just playing himself. He's playing a
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: fictional version of himself when he's not playing the character
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: of Digger Rockwell. There is a scene in the movie
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that I think, there's going to be one of two
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: scenes when he wins the Oscar because I feel like
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: this is also like I just think it's going to
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: be the opportunity for them to just give him the Oscar. Finally,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I think in my opinion, like not that it's not
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: deserved for his body of work, but I just think like,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: this is the kind of movie that gets that from,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: from the Academy at this point, especially given that it's
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: also a Hollywood movie about the industry and, We know
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: the industry loves to pat themselves on the back. When
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: we talk about the character that he's playing in the movie,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: he's playing a character, like I said, who's having to
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: deal with the effect of the legacy of the other
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: character who he's also playing. And there is a moment
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: in the film where he breaks that. down because he
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: feels like he, Tom Cruise's character, is trivializing the effect
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: that the Digger Rockwell character has had on the world.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: And he doesn't want how awful he is to get
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: lost in everything. And that scene for me, like I said,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: is I think the scene that they're going to play
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: on the Academy thing for his nomination, because there are
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: two scenes in this movie. It's that and that huge
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: monologue with the E.U., But for me, that scene is
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: just it cuts to the core of what this movie
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: is about, which is like, yes, we can sit and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: joke about all these things, but they're fucking this up
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: and there's nothing we can do about it. Like, that's
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: the thing. Like, we never see the real normal people
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: in this movie. And I think the point is like
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the real normal people can't do anything about it. But
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: we are seeing the real normal people. We're seeing the
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: people playing the characters. These are the real normal people
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and there's nothing that they can do about it. Other
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: than the privileged ones like Tom Cruise, who saves his daughter,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: which again is like the kind of biting inward satire
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: of like looking at myself as well and acknowledging I
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: do have a massive amount of privilege.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I really like when John Goodman's character goes off the
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: deep end. There's this whole running thing of him having
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: ass cancer. Yeah. So childish. And when he decides that
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: his cancer is because of the world having problems, and
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: just the way that his logic just leaps and twists
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and sinews all around everything, that's pretty great. And that,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I was just like, wow, this feels very... true to
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: life with just how insane this person is. I also
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: like that they don't show the destruction, that they're all
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: in that situation room and watching all of the destruction
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: going on, but not actually showing us. I mean, when,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: what's his name? Michael Schoenberg? Stuhlbarg.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Stuhlbarg.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you. When he grows up, I mean, that was
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: kind of surprising for me. Very surprising to see Bernd
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Gorman so... little in this movie. Cause I'm just like,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Burt Gorman's huge for me.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: But I think there's a lot of this movie that
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: got left on the cutting room floor. Cause Sandra, who
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: let her, her character has a dance scene in the trailer.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: So there's stuff that there's definitely, this is a two
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: hour and 10 minute movie. I kind of feel like
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: there's more likely a version of this movie. There's like
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: two hours and 40. It's like, it definitely feels self-important enough.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And again, like you can view it as meta or not.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's rather funny that this movie is like
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: as long as it is, and there's probably more to it,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: but there's at least another half an hour to this movie.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: There has to be, you know.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I was really glad to see this guy. Pip Torrens
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: is his name. i've only seen him and maybe one
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: other thing where it was um i think he was
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: in preacher do you remember when they brought preacher to
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: uh television the seth rogan you mean yeah yeah and
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: he was amazing in that and he's amazing in this
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: too he's got such a great fucking face and i
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: just really like the energy he's bringing i really like
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: the um basically General Ripper, that guy, the Admiral guy,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: that you've got the two military guys, one Army, one Navy,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and one wants to attack it from the top, the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: other one that wants to attack it from the bottom
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: and it's like maybe you shouldn't attack this maybe it's
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: going to make things worse and then when it does
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: it's like okay great and they just gotta know when
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: they see just how much they've broken up this uh
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: what what do they call the the second one they
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: uh Kremlin Agueda or something?
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Kremlin Nova.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny. So funny that.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: They're doing this. It's not, you know, we talked about
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: this when we did Midnight Viewing all those years ago,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the show that I worked on with Father Malone before
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: he went and has taken it and is doing his
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: own thing with it. We talked about, we talked about,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: what was it? There was something we talked about that
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: was so similar to this. We talked about Twilight Zone 85,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and then we talked about those Twilight Zone reboot episodes.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: And it's like, those episodes don't age well now because
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: they're too specific and not funny enough. They're not biting.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: They're not smart about the satire. And I think that
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: this movie has some legs to it because it's not
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: a Donald Trump thing. I mean, we haven't even said
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: his name up until this point in the show, but
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: it's not just because it's not just a Donald Trump thing.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: It's like a I mean, I guess I did say
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: it earlier, I guess, but it's not just a Donald
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Trump thing. It's a billionaire thing. It's a self-absorbed actor
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: thing because of the play. spoiler of it all like
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: there are parts of this movie that are specifically i
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: think pointed at specific people but it's not doing what
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: that twilight zone reboot did the jordan peele one which
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: is just i don't know if you're too specific it
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: feels like it can't ever be topical only then like
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: it like i always go back to that gag and
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: scary movie four where craig bierko is jumping on the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: sofa And it's they're recreating the Tom Cruise Oprah moment
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: to speak to Tom Cruise again. And it's like, who
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: knows about that scene? Like, who knows about that now
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: in 2026? Is that a cultural touchstone for everyone? Like,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Well, it is for our generation. And then when he
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: starts to climb up the fireplace and grabs that shovel.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I was just like, oh, boy, watch out, because he
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: also climbs on furniture at the EU as well. He's
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: going across those desks. Wasn't he like kicks a woman
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: in the face or something?
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: He takes a shoe to the face at one point. Oh,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: my God.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: That shoe was amazing. And I'm like, OK, is that
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: a George Bush reference?
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's got to be. But again, they reference
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: things that they know by doing a certain thing that
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: they will allow the audience to think a certain thing.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: and look digger has a i would say like a
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: general without being too specific to wear southern accent as
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: well like he is kind his character i would say
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: is a shit heel good old oh you want to
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: talk about i mean like you want to say oh
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: it's donald trump like i think in a lot of
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: ways this movie could just be as much about jerry
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: joan or you know a lot of those southern asshole
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: fucking oil men like it because again like he's an
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: oil man you know i've we got that shovel and
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: we're digging forward. Like, I think what's very funny is
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: in that opening scene of the film, everybody keeps tripping
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: over the shovel, which I think is very, very, very, again,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: like it's very intentional. Like I can draw a lot
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: of intentionality from them doing that. And what in a
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: rot to as a director and writer is, And the
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: rest of the writers are trying to say by doing that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: And I don't need the movie to over explain it.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing that's nice about this movie is
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: that this is one of those movies where everything is intentional,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: but not in a going to beach over the head
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: with a moment. You know, I know we always talk
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: about room 237 and give it, you know, it was
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: about the moon landing. I don't know if it's about
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the moon landing, but I can't tell you it's not
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: about the moon landing because there's enough stuff in that
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: movie where I'm like, well, that's not done unintentionally. Like
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: there is a reason there's intentionality behind it. And all
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: these characters tripping over this phallic symbol of the shovel
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: on the ground that he keeps talking about was his
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: daddy's shovel and that there wouldn't daddy be proud and
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: we're winners. Like, There's a lot of intentionality I can
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: draw from that being the case in the movie.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: And as I'm assuming you did as well. And it's like,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: this is that kind of movie. And yeah, no shit.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: This movie is not going to play well with the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: nine to five Saturday crowd that went and saw Mission Impossible.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: That's on the studio for thinking that was going to
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: be the case. Not for the movie. The movie was
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: very intentional with what it's doing. I can't help it
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: if the studio didn't understand that.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the metaphor of the tuna. The whole
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: thing where he's just like, oh, you know, like, I
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: don't eat tuna. And, you know, it's so bad. And
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: this is inside of the world of the movie. So
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: they're not even talking about the environmental effects of, you know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: the tuna and stuff after this. You know, like in
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: the quote unquote real world of the movie. But this
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: whole thing.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Our world now, essentially.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, basically. Yeah. And it's just like, oh, yeah, that's bad.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like a few years ago where it's
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: just like, don't eat. chilean sea bass like they're overfishing
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: and it's ruining the world and you know don't eat
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: this eat this instead don't eat that eat this instead
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and it's like you know i can't eat this tuna
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: that's really bad and then digger gives this the the
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: character digger gives this whole thing about like oh yeah
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: this is raised by this guy who you know hand
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: raises them and pets their scales and does all this
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: stuff and eventually convinces Riz Ahmed, you really do need
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: to have this last piece of this tuna. And then
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: after he eats it and enjoys it and just has
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: a great time with it, then he's like, yeah, I
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: don't know where the fuck that tuna came from. I
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: just made up all that shit.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: So fucking good.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: It's so good, right?
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: And again, when it speaks to the theme of this
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: fucking movie, like it is literally, again, a microcosm of
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this movie. Like just in a one scene, you could
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: show this scene and be like, that's the theme of
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: this movie. Like that this movie speaks to entirely. It's like,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter where the fuck it comes from. It
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: could still be good. But at the same time, the
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: lies we tell ourselves about things allow us to enjoy
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: things a little bit more or not worry about it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Because that's the monologue that Tom Cruise does for 10 minutes. Oh, God, yeah.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I just watched Three Days of the Condor. And that's
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: partially the theme of that movie. It's like, you know what?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: They won't ask us to drill for the oil. They
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: just fucking want us to. Because if we don't have
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the oil, can't keep warm in the winter and cool
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: in the summer, you can't drive your car anywhere. can't
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: go on vacation, can't do anything. Because if we don't
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: have the oil, you can't do anything.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. He's just like, well,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: we got solar. We got wind. And we got this.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: And he's just like, fuck you. Like, he's just tearing
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: down everything.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: You know how long it'll take to switch over? And
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it will. And that's the truth. Doesn't
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: mean we shouldn't do it. But like, again, like, it's
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the reality of the situation.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. We could have started, you know, years ago.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: We could have started in the 1970s if we had
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: wanted to. We could have started so many times. I mean,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: being from Detroit... The whole thing is just like, oh yeah,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: the auto companies are just like, oh, streetcars are unsafe.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: You need to buy a car. Don't take these horrible streetcars.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Don't take this public transportation. They're being powered by a
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: lot of these streetcars by electricity. And so it's just like,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that the gas companies, the oil companies were
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, fuck yeah. Oh yeah, that's very dangerous.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: We're going to prove that this is really super dangerous,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: you know, and we'll lobby and we'll do everything that
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: we can in order to hook you on this and
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: then good luck getting Good luck getting that needle out
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: of your arm.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Well, and again, you mentioned the idea of once it's there,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to undo. I mean, that's that
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: in Three Days of the Condor. He's like, they're not
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: going to want us to ask permission. They're just going
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: to want us to have the oil. And then this
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: movie cuts that same idea of, you know, you might
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: not like what I do, but without what I do,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to live. You wouldn't be able
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: to do the things that you do. And it's like,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you, but people like
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: me have to exist. We all want the world to
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: be sunshine and rainbows and, you know, Riz Ahmed saying,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't eat tuna because it's bad for
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: the environment. And the funny thing is like the movie
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: is confidently incorrect. But at the same time, the movie
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: shows you that like, no, see, here's the thing. Like
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the scientist was fucking right this whole time. He was right.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: You're fuck. You know, like they like to say, fuck
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: your feelings. Your feelings don't matter. You know what doesn't
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: care about your feelings? Mother nature. And Tom Cruise even
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: says that. And it's the truth. Mother nature doesn't care
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: about your fucking feelings. Either way, with or without us
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: exploiting her, she doesn't care. The lion eats the gazelle.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Nature doesn't care because that's the way nature is the
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: way nature is. You won't want me to ask for
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: permission when you're freezing to death. You want me to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: do this, but then... you bite the hand that feeds.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: And again, they even have that fucking metaphor in the
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: movie with his cat biting him. It's like the cat
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: bites you at the end because your usefulness as it's
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: perceiving it is no longer needed. And it's like, what
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: did the cat, the cat hate me the whole time?
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, the cat probably hated you the whole time,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: but the cat, but you still loved the cat and
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the cat. It didn't matter. Right.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: And you wonder when you see him wearing that bandage,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: you're just like, what the hell's going on? Did I
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: miss something? Was there another scene? But when you get
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: that explanation, it's like, oh, that's a really nice thing.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: And it's funny, what you said about him being like, yo,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: you need me to do this. You need me to
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: supply that oil. As he's saying that in the movie,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, you need me on that wall. You
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: want me on that wall. Like I just start thinking
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: of a few good men. I was just like, wow,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: he's become Colonel Jessup now. Like he's the one now
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: that is just like, you know, I'm the one that's
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: protecting the world. I'm the one that all the, you know,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the life's problems are falling on. I'm the savior and
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: you need to follow me and you need to take
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: all of my advice.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Well, and you mentioned that it's like, oh, this, this,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: could be the EU. I also think it could be,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you know, again, if you read it subtextually as this
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: being Tom Cruise, the actor. talking about his you know
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: career you know him as his career right i don't
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: know if tom cruise believes that hollywood needs him to
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: be successful tom cruise the real person but the persona
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: that he's giving in this movie you could look at
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: it that way as like well there is a universe
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: where someone like tom cruise like we've already mentioned during
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: the pandemic they trotted him out to try and be
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: like see tom cruise says go to the movies right
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: There is some of this that might be Tom Cruise
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: just poking fun at himself and his own legacy as
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: an actor. And there is not any of that in
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Don't Look Up. There is no meta meta narrative. And
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think that this is us like sniffing our
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: own farts here. I think in a rot to, as
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: a director and writer and Tom Cruise, as the star,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: give the, give up the ghost very easily with this movie.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Like they're not hiding that, but I think they're asking
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: you the audience to play along. Like they're asking you
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: to be an audience in two respects, an audience to
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: the play in the movie, but an audience to the
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: movie itself. And then the meta narrative that the film
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: is kind of playing against itself within the movies kind
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: of content.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's funny, you know, I totally agree that Inuratu
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: is doing all of this 100%. Out in the open. Yes,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: very open.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: This ain't out in all the moon landing stuff, which again,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Kubrick was doing that out in the open too, but
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: it's less obvious if you want to go there. This
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: is pretty obvious.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: But I mean, Birdman with Michael Keaton is such a
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: metaphor for Batman and the way that Batman and his
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: thoughts probably ruined his career a little bit by doing that.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: which is funny because everybody was saying that he was
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: going to ruin Batman. I think there's so much goodwill
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: towards Michael Keaton that that was one of the reasons
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: why that movie was such a hit. Also, you know,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: the whole gimmick of the one shot thing, the, use
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: of the drums as the soundtrack, a really strong performance
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: from pretty much everybody across the board. It was good.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: But you look at that and you think about the
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: goodwill that people have towards Michael Keaton. Him coming back,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: even though it was a shit, shit, shit movie, that
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Flash movie that he was in, it was great seeing him.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: It was wonderful to see him back.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: The best part of that movie without a doubt. Absolutely.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. But I think the problem is there's the opposite
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: thing going on with Tom Cruise. Because I think people,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: and they've been doing this for like 20, 30 years,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: they hate how successful he is. And they hate him
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: as a person, as an actor. And it's just like, well,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: I don't see Tom Cruise movies. I don't want to
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: go see a Tom Cruise movie. And it's like people
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: bragging like, well, I haven't seen those. And I haven't
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: seen the last few Mission Impossibles because I started to
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: get really lost. I think that they were kind of
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: crawling up their own ass when it came to their
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: whole mythology that they have.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was wild. It's like a myth. I mean,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: when Mission Impossible was great when I didn't have to
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: watch the two Mission Impossibles for it to appreciate it.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Well, and then I would watch the two Mission Impossibles
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: and I would still be like, Wait, is that Michelle
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Monaghan or is that that other chick who looks exactly
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: like Michelle Monaghan?
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: It's cool to hate on Tom Cruise. Yeah. Yeah, great.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Can I just say this? Get roast me. I actually
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: don't mind that mummy movie because Tom Cruise never makes
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: those kinds of movies. And he made one of those movies.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it's not great. But guess what? Most of
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the time he's making shit like Mission Impossible. It's like
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: literally the mummy American made Mission Impossible, Top Gun, Mission Impossible,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Mission Impossible than this movie. Hmm. Every now and then
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: he makes a decision that's weird. He's like anti-Nicholas Cage.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage, that's all he does is take weird jobs.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: And then like every now and then he'll make a
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: mainstream movie. Tom Cruise is like inverse. All he does
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: is mainstream stuff because, and the reason this movie is
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: a failure financially, not as a movie, but financially, is
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: because overseas I'm not sure anybody in like China is
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: going to go see this movie.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how much appeal this is going
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: to have. And I think part of the appeal is,
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, you saw the trailers for this. The first
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: trailer for this was basically, well, it was, I mean,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: I heard about it before I saw it. I was
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: talking with, I think it was my friend Mike Thompson.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: He was just like, I don't know how they pulled
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: this off because he has worked for so many studios
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: that were all of his years. And the first trailer
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: for this movie was basically a love letter to Tom
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Cruise and showing like Tom Cruise's greatest hits from I
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: don't know if it was all the right moves or
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: the outsiders, but it was like all the way through
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: his fucking career. There he is in Rain Man. There
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: he is in Color of Money. There he is. And
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: you're just like, oh, wow. It's everything you're saying as
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: far as this being a movie about Tom Cruise. That's
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: what this movie is. And you watch that first trailer
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: and half of it, if not 75% of it is
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: just Look at how fucking cool Tom Cruise is, you know,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: all the way through. Here he is as Vampire Lestat.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Here he is as Maverick. Here he is as... And
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: you're just like, wow, yeah, what a body of work
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: this guy has built over the years.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: What a tremendous amount of range this man has as
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: an actor. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: And then, boom. Here he is, dancing around in his skivvies,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: and just wearing the old man makeup, and he's got
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: a fucking cowboy hat. He reminded me of Burt Reynolds
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: from Striptease or something. I'm just like, what the fuck
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: is going on here? And they're very, very careful when
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: it came to those first posters. They just used that
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Digger logo, that kind of Saul Bass-type logo that they
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: had of the word Digger with a shovel. And you're like,
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: what is this? And it's like, here's this new movie
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: by Inuratu. And it happens to star Tom Cruise. And
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: then the trailer is, look at how fucking amazing Tom
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Cruise is. And then you get to the third trailer,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: which is much more like the normal trailer, but it's
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: cut very quickly. And of course, like you said, it
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: stays away from the twist altogether. You're just like, this
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: is a movie about this guy. And for whatever reason...
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: I knew that he had a cat from that trailer,
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: but for whatever reason, I kept thinking, oh, Digger is
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: the name of a monkey that he has. I'm just like,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: where did that come from? I don't know what I
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: read or if I dreamed that or something. I was
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: just like, okay. And then the cat really does. I
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, this cat's going to be in this
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: whole fucking movie. This is going to be a whole struggle.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: But no, very quickly early on when he does finally
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: take that bandage off his finger and it's like, oh yeah,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: my cat attacked me. And here's her ashes. And that's
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: how the cat is through the rest of the film
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: is just this jar of ashes, this tiny little jar
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: of ashes. And I really appreciate it at the end
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: when they're like, well, how can a cat be a cat?
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: But the cat can be ashes as well. And just
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: like trying to explain to that person, like what's happening
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: with this. And when they put their thumb in the
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: ashes and stuff. And I don't know, there's a lot
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: of clever stuff. Like, I don't know if I necessarily
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: enjoyed the movie while I was watching it. But I'm
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: enjoying a lot more having this discussion with you.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: And that's I think that's the thing about this movie
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: that when I said, you know, it's going to have
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: an audience once it gets out of theaters and kind
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: of makes it into the audience of. the internet, the
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: cognoscente as it were of, you know, film watchers and
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: film goers. It's, it's a film that I think deserves
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: to be talked about in a way that's not like,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: it's like serious, but I think it's, it set the
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: tone of the conversation it wanted to have with the
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: audience by showing all those Tom Cruise movies to begin with.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: And it's like, I wouldn't, you know, I'm not going
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: to say he's doing this obviously, but Tom Cruise could
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: retire tomorrow and this be his last film. And I'd
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, that kind of makes sense. Like, It
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: is him kind of doing the last thing he hasn't done,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: which is just a Tom Cruise thing. And that's it. Like,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: I know we've talked about him as a actor in
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: all these other movies and Mission Impossible and all these
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: other things. And yes, those are movies that he stars in.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: But like, this is like a Tom Cruise thing. like
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: it's just it's him musing on his own career working
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: with a director he's wanted to work with forever apparently
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: like literally I think for like 20 years he's wanted
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: to work with Inuratu like since he saw his one
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: of his early films like it's It's a film that
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: both of them feel very strongly about. And what's funny is,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you, this movie, 10, 15, however long, if
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Interato had made this film a year after writing it,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: the Trump stuff would still be in here and we
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: just wouldn't think it had anything to do with Donald Trump.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Because it's not Donald Trump specific. Like, none of this
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: movie is. They have been doing this forever. This has
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: been going on forever. I mean, it's that's the Riz
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Ahmed character. Just at one point, he loses it on
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: the plane. He's like, you've literally known about this for
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: fucking ever. And no one has done anything. Your dad
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: knew about this and he didn't do fucking anything about it.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: And that to me is, again, Interatu and Tom Cruise
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: and the The people making this movie wanting to have
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: a conversation with the audience where it's like they have
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: been doing this forever and no one can do anything
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: about it. Even someone as powerful as possibly Tom Cruise
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: can't really do anything about it because there are people
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: even more powerful than him.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned Mickey 17 earlier and Bong Joon-ho. That's
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: the name of the guy I was trying to remember.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: I really like his movies. I really like his movies.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: And I like that, again, his movies aren't necessarily the
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: most subtle thing in the world. I mean, the Snowpiercer.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Mickey 17 was very on the nose.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was going to say. Like, he
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: does a really good job when it comes to things
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: like Snowpiercer or The Host or some of these others.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: And I hope to God that I'm saying that these
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: are all the same person's films. But you get to
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Mickey 17 and the Mark Ruffalo character, you're just like,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: oh my God, like, can you tone this down a
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: little bit? Like, I get it. It's Trump and Trump
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: is fucking crazy and Trump is out of control and
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: Trump is over the top. But Mark Ruffalo, you are
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: in danger of ruining this entire movie across the board
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: because you are still not subtle when.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: It comes to this. You didn't even go as far
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: as I did. I think in that episode I did
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: on it, I said, we get it, Mark Ruffalo, you
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: don't like Donald Trump. It feels more personal than even
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: in the script. Like, oh, he's like... there's a very
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: famous wrestling match between Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan, where
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: every time a Hulk Hogan hit Shawn Michaels, he oversold
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: and overdid it. And it made the match look like
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: shit because it's like, you, you got to tone it down, man.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Like you can't, everything can't be this like chuckling Donald
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Trump impersonation. Like I, it's not that I didn't find
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: it funny. It's just, it takes me out of the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: movie because I am here to be entertained. Right.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: And I thought that John Goodman balanced that. I think
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: there were, he's not scrumping it even though he's got
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: the red tie. He, I mean, I would say that
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: Trump duties are probably split down between him and Tom Cruise. Like,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I think both of them are so self-centered and I
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: think that the ego of the president that John Goodman
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: is playing is not nearly the ego of Trump. So
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: I think that it's a really sharp performance. I like
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: that they have that whole thing about the AI that
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: they're going to employ. And I love that he knows everything,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: that Tom Cruise, the digger, knows everything before anybody else,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: that he even knows that the president has cancer when
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: the president is like, you know, like, I'm going to
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: take you into my confidence. He's like, and then he's like,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: you son of a bitch, you already knew. But when
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we're going to turn on this AI
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: program and it's going to block all of these things
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: across all the social networks. And when they actually name
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: drop Al Gore, I was like, yep. Yeah, that's pretty accurate.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: You know, just like, How evil was it that Al
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Gore tried to make people uncomfortable with climate change? And
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: we all know that climate change isn't real. It's a
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: hoax that was sold to us by China. I believe
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: that's a direct quote from our current sitting president.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: What I was going to say, it's funny that we
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: do have China mentioned in this film. It's like, well,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: we'll just blame China for it. We'll do a wag
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: the dog and we'll attack China to cover up. And
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: that's the thing. You and I are going to be
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: talking about wag the dog here pretty soon in the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: hopes of getting anyone who listens at least motivated enough
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: to go fucking vote, for God's sakes, in these midterm elections.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: And not to be preachy, but I think this movie
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: is also kind of A secret go vote movie as well, because, again,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: it speaks to this idea of because they split the
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: because they split certain things that you can see on
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: a daily basis up between certain actors and certain characters.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like a Trump thing. It doesn't feel
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: like a, oh, this guy thing. It feels like a
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: condemnation of all of them as just the surface layer.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: And then the layer underneath is kind of the metatextualness
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: of it. And then the layer beneath that is the
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, which is, again, to go to the why
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: they did that trailer that way, how they sold this movie.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, man, that's the thing. You know, I want
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: to take a momentary pit stop here to mention, like,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: I want to chastise, once again, people who advertise movies
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: not fucking understanding, like, this movie was never going to
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: make the money back. So don't spend a lot of
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: money on the advertising because you're never going to make
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: that money back. No matter how hard you try, you're
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: never going to make that money back that you spend
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: on advertising. Just accept that you've just accept that you've
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: made an expensive movie and don't sink any more costs
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: into it than you need to because you, you are
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: probably going to do more harm than good, which is,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: I think, unfortunately, what's happened here. Because critics being split, fine, whatever.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: But you baited people into this movie, and I don't
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: think people liked it. I don't think people liked being
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: baited into a Tom Cruise movie thinking it's going to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: be one thing. when it's another. And I do think
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: that this movie is, I think this movie had a
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: lot of people who saw the Odyssey going to see
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: it and being like, oh, duh, duh. And it's like, yeah,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: go watch the Odyssey. That movie's surface level. That's it.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Like there's nothing else. There doesn't need to be. Like
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: there's no other anything with the Odyssey. This movie, you
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: have to be willing to operate on certain levels with
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: this movie that I don't think the, like I said,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: crowd who goes and watches a movie on Friday night's
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: gonna resonate with. but they really tried to sell this
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: movie that way. Like in a way that I feel
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: feels irresponsible.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Right. Which I think is where a lot of the
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: backlash is coming from because it was being sold as
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: something that it's not. Right. I went into this, you know,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I don't tend to watch a lot of trailers. I don't,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I think I saw the second.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Trailer trailer watcher. You're the only one I know who
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't watch them genuinely. Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, I really only watch them when I'm at
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: the movies. And then even then I'm like, Oh, I
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: wish I really hadn't seen that.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: So, I like Maria Menounos instead.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And her new podcast, Health Matters or whatever
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: that is. Movie?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I thought that's what it was called.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: They would ADR that in for a while. It's like
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: they changed the name and they had to have her
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: come back in and re-record what it was. She's doing
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: it on.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Her cell phone while driving down the 05 or wherever
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the hell it is. We don't live in LA, guys. Sorry.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know what your highways are out there. Recording
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: that way. Okay, we got it. Good. Send it over.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: We can clean it up in post. Right.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, but yeah, the trailers for this, I
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, cool. That's good. Yeah, this looks good.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I didn't need to be sold this movie.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay. I mean, because I'm the audience, right?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: I'm the guy who knows who Inuratu is, even though
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: he is making The Revenant, which was... weirdly popular i
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: still don't understand why that movie is as popular as
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: it was in it man i guess that's it and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: the bears attack yeah.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Dude that movie was the like that movie dick rode
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: leo so hard like i fucking hate how like it's
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: not that that's not a fun movie i i didn't
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: don't remember enjoying that movie maybe i should re-watch it
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: and have a you know maybe that's one of those
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: need to re-watch movies based on this movie but i
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: just remember that movie being like well this is Leo
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't have an Oscar, and so he needs to get
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: his Oscar. Where's that uproar for Amy Adams, who's been
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: nominated like a fucking million times? Like, it's because she's
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: a woman. That's right.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: I forgot.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Sorry. The Internet only cares about a guy who dates
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: women 20, 30, 40 years younger than him. That tracks,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: once again. I don't know. Like, I don't fucking get it,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: because that movie is just fine. I remember that movie
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: being just fine. Right.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting how well they do the twist
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: and the balance between the quote-unquote real world and the
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: world of the movie. Because there are times, like I
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: was just thinking about the scene where Riz Ahmed's character
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: picks up a vase and throws it up in the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: air and it crashes and Goodman is like hey that
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: vase was made for Theodore Roosevelt and like in that
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: moment I give a shit about that even though I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: you know I don't care that the vase is that
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: old but I'm just like oh you really you broke
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: something that was very old and like you're just doing
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: it to make this point yada yada yada and like
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: seeing like the wreck of a wife that um John
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Goodman's character has Like, if they were really doing Trump,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: it would have been like a supermodel walking in very
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: slinkily kind of thing. But I don't think that Melania
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: is bringing Donald any pills or gives a shit about
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: him whatsoever. But it's like, I care about these characters
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: at that moment. I'm just like, oh, this sweet old lady,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: and she just seems like such a doddering fool. And
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: then I'm like, oh, wait, these are characters inside of
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: a play. But they do it well enough, and they
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: keep us in the play well. long enough and it's
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: not like i said it's not shot like a play
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: it looks fucking fantastic where you're just like oh like
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: i get into this as a movie and then they'll
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: pull me out and then i'll get back into it
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: and then they'll pull me out and i'm just like
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: okay i like that i don't feel like they're being
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: too clever when it comes to that stuff i think
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: that they're doing the right job by letting me be
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: invested again in the digger story before they say don't
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: forget this guy's an actor And I think it's just
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: that the plot of the actor and his missing daughter.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: And again, it takes me a minute, sorry to admit
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: how stupid I am, but it takes me a minute
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: to be like, wait, no, this is the future that
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: they're in. And the weather is so completely fucked up.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: It probably does happen where planes will go missing or
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: this will happen because they talk about bad weather. And
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: then I'm just like, oh shit, no, the weather is
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: probably way worse because of the future world that they're in.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing, like I said, to speak
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: back to the idea of like, what is the movie
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: getting at? Like, it's, it's funny that someone who is
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: even again, possibly just really just again, a sly nod
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: to Tom Cruise as the actor or the person like.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Even someone as powerful as him has to go and
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: find someone who is more powerful to help him out
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: in this situation, which I think, once again, is like
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: a like subtle dig at the striations of wealth and
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: power in the world. Because, again, we perceive, I think,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: and again, I think part of the reason people don't
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: like Tom Cruise is because of who he is as
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: a person. And the amount of wealth and success and
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: power and influence that he has but it's funny that
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: the conceit in this movie ultimately becomes even someone who
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: is essentially Tom Cruise doesn't have that much power to
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: just get a you know a jet to come get
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: their family member out of whatever just because even someone
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: of his ability and means doesn't have that. And I
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: love that the movie's whole thing once again is like
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: it's a thinly veiled knock at tom cruise but he
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: again he's knocking himself it almost feels like the only
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: time he's ever doing it is when he's part of
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: it which is wild because again like to go back
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: to the tropic thunder of it all tropic thunder yes
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: has tom cruise playing less grossman who's based off of
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: a real person That Tom Cruise knew that Alan Sachs,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: who I worked with so many years ago, knew as well.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: I believe it's based off of one of the people's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: based off of is is like a Hollywood producer that
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: they were all working with at the time. And that's
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: part of the fun of that movie. But the also
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: real fun of that movie is Ben Stiller. who looks
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: like Tom Cruise with sunglasses on, which they did that
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: whole MTV thing, MTV Movie Awards thing in, what, was
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: that Mission Impossible 2 when they were doing that?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they had that amazing thing where he.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: Stunt double, right?
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Well, they had a few things, and that was the
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: thing that I liked. And I'm sorry to go off
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: on a tangent, but Ben Stiller seemed to understand Tom Cruise,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: or seems to understand Tom Cruise better than anybody else.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Other than Tom Cruise, I think. Yeah, and I had
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: never seen anybody who was able to get Tom Cruise
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: to send himself up, and it was from some of
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: their earliest things. Ben Stiller used to do Tom Cruise
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: on The Ben Stiller Show, still one of the best
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: TV shows.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: He did it on Celebrity Jeopardy.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And then he, yeah, with one of those MTV things,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: I do remember Tom Cruise sitting there and laughing, and
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: then Ben Stiller doing the laugh, and that makes Tom
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Cruise laugh even harder. And they're just going back and
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: forth like, with this laugh off. And I'm just like,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I've never seen, because even when he was young, he
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: had a very cultivated personality and he grew into that
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: very quickly. Once he got involved with Scientology, they helped
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: groom him for, and I do mean groom, groom him
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: for like the cameras and everything, you know, he gets
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: his teeth fixed, all that kind of stuff. And here's
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Ben Stiller able to get this guy to laugh at
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: himself and laugh very hearty. And it was, so it
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: was that surprising to me when, Tropic Thunder came out
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: and you had this Les Grossman character, I mean, for me,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: that's the weakest part of the movie. I'd rather stay
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: in the jungle, stay in the shit with my boys.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: There's not too much of it, though, I think, is
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: the good part.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: It just felt like it lasted forever for me, especially
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: at the end when he's dancing. I don't know.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: That was a lot. I get it. But my point is,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: he's not the main character. Right.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: But it was nice that he's able to do that
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: to send up himself, to send up, you know, this
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: other person, because I do remember that thing where Stiller
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: was just like, well, I was talking to him about
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: doing this and he goes, all right, I'll do it
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: as long as I can have really fat arms. And
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: so when you see Les Grossman in those big fat
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: arms with all the hair and stuff, I'm just like,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what Tom Cruise wanted, was those big, gross arms.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: Which I love, by the way. That makes the character.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Those fat, ugly, nasty arms, really. Look, I think for me,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: and I think it's interesting, because Tom Cruise, I think,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: is a very polarizing actor. And I guess my question is,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: The polarizing nature of Tom Cruise comes from what? For you.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: For you. I don't care about anybody else. This is
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: one of these things where you and I, I think
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: we don't have a difference of talking about politics on
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: our shows, but... it's not that I do or don't
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: want to talk about politics, but like my politics are
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: my own. I don't expect anybody else to have them.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: But this is kind of like a theological question of
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: the film variety, which is what is the poll? Cause again,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of actors and movies and
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: people we could talk about that. It's like, what is
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: the theological issue with this actor that you might have?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: Because again, I know what the societies is. What is
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: the theological issue you have with Tom Cruise? If you
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: have one. And then question B is, What is it
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: with society writ large that they have with him? And
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: then the C, is it Scientology if it's not something else?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Right. I, for me, I really don't have a problem
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: with Tom Cruise. Like Tom Cruise. And I mean, I
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: have said this in the past that I'm a Tom
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: Cruise apologist because I really like a lot of the
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: movies he's in. And I don't mean just always the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: mainstream stuff. I mean, I think, you know, another one
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: where he went completely off, the Tom Cruise train was Collateral.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: I love him in Collateral.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: What a great movie.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, God. But I also love things like The Firm.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: I still think that The Firm is probably the best
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Grisham adaptation. It's so much better than the book itself.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: I tried to read The Firm and you just get
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: so bored with the prose and they cut all the fat.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: Really strong thriller. Really well done. I have no problem.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, especially, I think it was perfect for him
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: to be playing Mitch, I think was his character's name.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: I'd love that. I can remember it all these years.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Grisham names. I just rewatched because we were doing an
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: episode on three days of the Condor. I rewatched the
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: Pelican brief and there is a character in that film called,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I shit you not gray Grantham. So she's like, what
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: got John Grisham? Just leave them normal names.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: I had such a problem with that. It's such a good, good.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: I had such a problem with the Pelican brief because
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: I was just like, just walk up and shoot her
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: in the head. Like, nobody's going to miss this person.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to die. Well, you can't kill Julia
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Roberts in the first five minutes. She's female Tom Cruise,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is interesting when you look at his,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: because he has been fighting against his own image. And
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know if his image is just like risky
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: business plus top gun, because he already like in between there,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: he's doing all the right moves and legend. You know,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: I love Color of Money. I think I've seen Cocktail.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: I know like Rain Man. He was just like, listen,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: I can be serious. And then he gets really super
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: serious with Born on the Fourth of July. And I
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: think these kind of transformative roles have gone all the
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: way back to the fucking 80s, man. That was 1989.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: And then he's able to do like, you know, interview
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: with a vampire where he's playing Lestat, which was very surprising.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: The turn that he did in Magnolia.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: When he was in Rock of Ages. Right, exactly. When
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: he was in Rock of Ages, a fucking jukebox musical.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, Tom Cruise, not the worst
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: part of that movie. Alec Baldwin singing is the worst
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: part of that movie.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Russell Brand being in that movie is the worst part
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: of that movie.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: It's just amazing when you look closely at his filmography
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: and it's just like, here's a risky role. And then
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: he does something like Mission Impossible 3. And then here's
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Les Grossman or Lions for Lambs. And then he'll go
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: back and do something else. And then it's like, all right,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: now it's time for Rockovich. I fucking love Jack Reacher.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: I don't like the second Jack Reacher movie. And I
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: think he was They should have just called it something
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: other than Jack Reacher.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: Don't make it Reacher, man.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: But he was fucking amazing. I love Edge of Tomorrow.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: I've seen Edge of Tomorrow. I don't know how many times.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: Such a good movie.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: It's so great.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: It's like one of the best action films of the
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: last 20 years.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: I need to go back and watch Oblivion because I
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: just didn't connect with that movie. And I still haven't
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: seen Eyes, not Eyes Wide Shut. What was Open Your Eyes?
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: You've never seen Vanilla Sky?
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: No, I've seen the original. I never saw the remake. So, yeah,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: one of these days I need to do that.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Doesn't that speak to Tom Cruise as an actor that, like,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: he's the kind of actor who would be in a
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: remake of an Alejandro Amanebar film? Like, Yeah, he's he
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: knew about Inuratu since Amor, the Amor's Peros. He's not
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: about Amor's Peros like that. I think, you know, the
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: thing that I think always cracks me up about Tom Cruise.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that this is the thing like it's
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: too bad that he's so successful. And I will tell
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: you why, because I genuinely think Tom Cruise is the
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: kind of actor who would sit in this Zoom with
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: us and talk about movies. He strikes me as like
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: a total fucking film dude. He's a nerd in a
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: film nerd and not in a bad way. Like maybe
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: in like the, again, like he's supportive of a, I
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: think he's supportive of the industry writ large. And like,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: I have my issue with Chris Nolan and his filmmaking
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: way of doing things. If you were to ask me
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: who I vibe with in terms of big triple a
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: style filmmaking, Tom Cruise and I probably have more in
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: common in terms of being film nerds, our entire lives.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: than any of these other people that we've talked about.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: Because I think he's just, yeah, it's too bad he's
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: so successful because otherwise I think he'd be a lot
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: more approachable as an actor. But there's got to be
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: somebody like him in the industry. There's literally no one
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: else like him because there's literally no one else like him.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: He's an anomaly in and of himself.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: And he did such smart things. So when he was younger,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: he kind of aligned himself with Robert Towne, the screenwriter.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: So almost everything that he would say yes to, he
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: would say yes with the caveat of having Robert, Robert
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: town to a rewrite and like bump up that role
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: for Tom Cruise and give him some really crisp dialogue.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: Talk about it. And the one, I mean, the Jesus
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: Christ talk about a great person to have as your
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: backup person. It's ripped doctor. My God.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: Well, and then, you know, he gets into the mission
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: impossible things and really, you know, it's like, Thanks, Brian
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: De Palma. I've got it from here. I own this franchise.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: There is no franchise without Ethan Hunt. So now it's
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: all about me. So what's he do? Goes out and
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: gets John Woo. And then he goes out and he gets,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: um oh the guy from um i know he's super
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: popular jj abrams jj abrams mad robot yeah.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Does that uh and then it was what brad bird
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: was the fourth one like it's just.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: Like it and eventually he aligns himself with christopher mcquarry
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: and mcquarry now is doing that that robert town role
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: where now everything that he does he's just like okay
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: chris you know give me a rewrite of this basically
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: they add that's how he rolls. Cause he's just like,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: I need to align with a strong writer in order
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: to be the actor that I want to be, which
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: is pretty remarkable that you can see that you are
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: not the end all be all. And I think that's
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: where people have their problem with. But yes, I think
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: there is a problem that people have with Scientology and
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: all this. And like, it comes up in the news
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: and it's just like, oh my gosh, like, I haven't
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: heard a peep about Scientology in the last few years.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: Who gives a shit at this point? You know what
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: it was? And I'm probably as guilty of this as
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: you were. Shit was an easy target. Shit is still
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: an easy target. And I think it's an easy target
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: because of the industry. It's kind of involved in being
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: an easy target unto itself. But at the same time,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to be serious here, I'm critical of
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: all religion because all organized religion kind of sucks. But
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: if you have a belief system of your own and
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: that happens to involve aliens... fucking go for it i
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: don't give a shit like yeah the problem is not
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: with scientology as a belief system it's with the organized
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: religion behind scientology which is my problem with organized religion
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: period that's not a scientology specific thing like.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: It's that the corporation is so visible as opposed to
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: the vatican which is a corporation or this guy or
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: this guy you're like The whole Joel Osteen type of
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: thing where it's just like, oh.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: A name and a face can be put.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly. And they put the name and face to
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Tom Cruise. So it's all the evils seem to fall
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: on him. And I mean, hey, yeah, like you, I've
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: got problems with organized religion. I don't want people to
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: not be living their best life. But whatever he's getting
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: out of it. okay, cool, great.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: He could be Jewish. He could be Catholic. I mean,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: who gives a fuck, right? Exactly.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, people seem to have a problem with that.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: They have a problem that he jumped on a couch
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: because he was very happy about, you know, his new
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: bride kind of stuff. It's like, all right, weird things,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: weird flex to be like, oh yeah, I just can't
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: stand this guy. And I think really what it comes
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: down to is that he's very fucking handsome. He's very
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: fucking charismatic. He makes a lot of fucking money. And
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: he's better than you. He's smarter than you. He's faster
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: than you. He will always be better than you. So
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: what do you do? You just tear him down. And
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: then you become an edgelord online and you go, oh,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: when the movie was over, I flipped off the screen
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: and I've only done that one other time. And I'm
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: just like, whoa, settle down, Francis.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: They were saying that about this movie? Yeah.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: There was somebody I read on my Facebook feed. Sorry
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: if I'm calling somebody out, but it was just like,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: you sound like such a dickhead.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: Guess what? He got your money. He won. Like it's
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like, you know, and,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: and you and I always joke about where it's worth
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: me joking about us doing a good fellows episode, but
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: we often quote good fellows back and forth on things.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: And one of the things we always quote is fuck
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: you pay me. It's like, they already did. Like you,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: like Tom Cruise one, if you went and saw his movie,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: good or bad, he got, he got out of you
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: what he wanted, which is you engaging with him even momentarily.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: And that's that I think. And to go back to
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: my take on this, I had, have no issue with
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise just like anything else I could care less
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: about his personal life because I wouldn't want someone judging
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: me for my personal life his personal life is just
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit more open and by a little I
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: mean a lot but that's also because like we've said
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: he's a fucking big time actor who works in Hollywood
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: and is immensely successful it's hard to It's hard to
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: be someone like Keanu Reeves, who's as visible and successful
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: as he is, and no one knows shit about you
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: other than what you've made available. That's harder than doing
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: what Tom Cruise is doing. And what Tom Cruise has
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: done is, like you've said, he's manicured his life. But
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to put this, but I think
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is at the point where he's like Michael Jackson. Like, what...
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: he can't just go to the goddamn store and buy
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: a banana. Like he's, he can't do that. He's not
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: been able to do that for some time now. And
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: he may never be able to do that again. And
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: you know, that's why he's got those masks. He's got
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: those masks.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It goes in there and he looks like, uh, uh,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: It's a big new remittance or whatever from a mission
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: impossible three. And it's just like, he.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Just looks like John Voight. He's like, well, no one
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: will care if I look like John Voight, no one
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: will recognize me as John Voight.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Or Philip Seymour Hoffman.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: All right. Good Lord. But that that I think for
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: me is is the issue like Tom Cruise. I think
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: it's just he's such a big personality and person. And
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: like you said, charismatic and all these things that he
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: just it's an easy target. You know, it's like it's easy.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: It's low. It is the it is the definition of
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: low hanging fruit. And look, I'm not saying Tom Cruise
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: does not have his issues. There are plenty of foibles
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: that he has Scientology. and being so involved in organized
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: religion kind of is one of them. And kind of
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: being not like a saint of organized religion, but definitely
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: a figurehead. He's not very vocal about it. That's the
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: thing I want to point out here. It's not like
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is always talking about the Scientology. Right.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: People bring it up to him. Right.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: We know he's a Scientologist. He's not like, hey, by
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: the way. He's probably doing that in the inner circles.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, as I know you have seen, the Z News,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: you know, Z News best hits. The video from... the 2000s,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: where it's him talking about the thing with the turtleneck on.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: It's wild. But is anyone surprised that the guy who's
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: as well-known is doing that for the people in Scientology
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: when he's the most well-known Scientologist? Like, let's use logic here.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: If someone is ever going to spot Bigfoot, it'll probably
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: be someone who's out looking for Bigfoot because that's what
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: they do. If Tom Cruise is a Scientologist... And he's
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: an actor and he's the most well-known actor on the planet.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Don't you think he's going to be involved in Scientology
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: in some capacity, even if it's just like internal stuff,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: inward facing? Like, I don't know why people are surprised. Like,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: it's just it's always been weird to me, the hatred
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: toward Tom Cruise, because I don't think I've ever understood it.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Like he's I'm kind of I'm not going to say
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: I'm like Switzerland on him. I'm neutral, but I've never
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: understood the hatred. I don't like some of the movies
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: he's in. Like I was joking earlier about Top Gun. Like,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: fuck that. I don't want to see Top Gun. Because
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: I don't care about that movie. It just seems like bro-y, macho,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: watcho bullshit that I don't care about. Okay, but that
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm never going to watch a Tom Cruise movie. Like, clearly.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: He's one of those actors that I've never understood the hatred.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: Other people, I get it. Him, I just don't. Like,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: if you don't like his personal life, like, I guess
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: you have a pretty unimpeachable personal life then. Like, okay.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are some actors, and some actors will go
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: through phases where it's like, we are waiting for this
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: person to fail. I think there was a time even
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: with like a Brad Pitt where it's just like, oh,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: we are waiting for him to fuck up. Like, what
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: is it going to be? Why is he, you know,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: how's he going to get through this unscathed? And then
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: he made the very smart choice of not really being
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: the pretty boy actor by taking the more challenging roles
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: pretty darn quickly. And I, I mean, if you get
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: offered a Top Gun or Rain Man or, you know,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: some of these other early films where he was really
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: like cocktail days of thunder and yeah, of course you're
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: going to take it. Of course you're going to take it.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, being married to an actress, to Nicole, well,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: to several actresses. I mean, uh, there was, was there,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: there was a wife before Nicole Kim and I think.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Mimi Rogers, who's also a great actress and good looking
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: in her own right. Like, yeah, I'm sorry. A good
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: looking guy is look, not every good looking actor has
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: to be like Hugh Jackman and have been married before
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: he became successful. Like, If you're on set with people,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it almost feels like, and I've felt
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: this way now for some time, and I think we've
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: talked about it, there was an article that was like,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is the last of the actors. And it's like,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, kind of. And he is, because I
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: would equate Tom Cruise to, and it's interesting that it's
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: me and you having this conversation, I wouldn't be surprised
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: if Shah Rukh Khan made an Indian version of this
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: film in terms of the visibility and success and all
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: these things. Because it's like, look, he's literally the most
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: successful American actor, period. Shah Rukh Khan is the most
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: successful Indian actor. He just also happens to be the
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: most successful actor in the world, period. But that is
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: a very heavy crown to wear. And I'm not sure
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise ever expected it to get to that point.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Because one does not become an actor expecting for this
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: to happen. But it's interesting that the person who it
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: happened to has some self-awareness to make a movie like this,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: which is essentially digging at his own legacy and him
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: digging at himself. It is like, it's an apt title digger.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: He's digging him. He's getting digs at himself all the time,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I mean, yeah, I agree with you
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: about Shah Rukh Khan, but then I'm like, Oh, you
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: already did the fan, you know? And that's such a,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: here I am as the fan of this guy who
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: looks like me, who basically is me. And I love
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: that that was so meta back then. I mean, it's
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: very JCVD, right? I really like JCVD. And that was
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: where you're just like, oh, wow, this guy can actually act.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: And this is really well done. And you kind of
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: were hoping for another JCVD or something super high caliber
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: after that. And then it just kind of fell off
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: and Did a bunch of shitty movies. I mean, I
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: respect Jean-Claude Van Damme so much more after a film
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: like that. And I'm hoping that... And I don't see it.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: I was hoping maybe people would respect Tom Cruise more
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: for a movie like this. But again, I think this
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: is where the knives are out and half of the
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: headlines are just about how poorly this movie did at
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: the box office. And people are just yawning. yucking it up.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: They're just like, oh my God, you know, this, this
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: movie from 2019 outperformed it. Well, I'm sorry, but that
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: movie from 2019, which was for a long time, the
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: number one box office in the world. There's not a lot.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: It's a juggernaut right now, and there's not a lot
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: that's out there in October, September that is going to
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: be able to beat Avengers Endgame two weekends in a row,
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: especially a $ 125 million art film. And that could be
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: a critique of this and be like, this is way
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: too fucking expensive.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: I think it is, but so what?
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Somebody paid for it. It's not my money.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: This looks fantastic. You get those great things at the
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: end with the oil derrick, and it's all the plastic,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: the artificial sea and everything. It's so good. And I
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: love his little dream sequence at the end where he
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: thinks that the larder is completely full, that he's bought
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: his own bullshit so much that he thinks he's Jesus
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: fucking Christ and can call on the Lord to bring
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: all this food back. I honestly thought we were going
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: to see people eating the president. That's really what I
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: thought when he was in that freezer.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, again, they didn't go full metaphor. They
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: went about two thirds of the way there. There is restraint.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: You know, Dr. Perlmutter and I, who you finally had
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to podcast with last week, we talk about
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: on required viewing the things that the movie does that
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: are successful. But we also talk about the things that
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: the movie doesn't do that are important to not do
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: because they often kind of gild the lily, as it were.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying there's a perfect movie, but I
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: think that would have been a step too far, just
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: like a note too far. Because again, it's like this
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: movie is because it's a stage play. And because like
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: you said early on, it's like the world's most, the
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: world's most well done stage play to the point where
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: it's you know the camera is moving through these environments
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: and stuff and i just perceive that as like again
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: the fantastical realism of playing out what's on the stage
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: in the head of the actor further but again it's
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: like really we're just narrowed down to like interacting with
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: these three people on this stage or whatever these kind
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: of more advanced sets are and we know that plays
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: in our time now can be super advanced we i've
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: seen some crazy shit as i'm sure you have you
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: know i saw spider-man in new york city that was
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: wild enough i'm good uh i.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: Mean they they almost are filming these on like a
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: volume you know but that's how good some of this
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: looks right yeah and to see the rotating stage and
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: it's like oh well And there is probably in the world,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: a stage play that is somewhat as advanced as this.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: And I might have people yelling at the radio right
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: now and just being like, Hey, no, I saw this
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: play and they had these rotating stages and then we're
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: able to do this and that the other thing. And
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: it's just. Yeah, the verisimilitude of this. But yeah, again,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: it's the camera inside, close up, close up, medium shot.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: You don't get that with the stage play.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: And then it pulls away though. And it's like, oh,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: this was on a stage, right? It's like, I love that. Again,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's, you said it, like, it doesn't have
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: to be this expensive of a movie, but because it
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: is an expensive movie, they're able to do so much
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: more with it. But this really is at times like
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: just a stage. There's not any like big action. And
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: it is a stage play because it's literally a stage play. Like, Yes,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: it isn't a stage play and they have all this
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: stuff going on, but they are also doing things intentionally
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: to make it reflect the unreality of things. Again, I
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: think Bo is Afraid is a very good comparison to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: this film, not in terms of subject matter, but maybe
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: in terms of subject matter. I mean, Bo is Afraid
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: is a story about a man with anxiety having, again,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: like a nervous breakdown and kind of the interior monologue
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: of that. And this movie gets to that point, but
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: there is some like unreality in that movie that Ari
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Aster really does a good job with. And I think
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: that in Iran too, does a great job with the
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: unreality at the end of this film too, when they're
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: on the oil rig, which just it's, it becomes kind
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: of like a whore. I mean, it's like, it's, it's horrifying.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: That's for sure.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: It's what was that? Uh, golden triangle or something, uh,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: with Woody Harrelson to where it was like all the
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: rich people on the boat. I was thinking of that
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: while I was watching this.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: It's, I can't remember the name of the movie.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: It's, it's, it's very, again, like it's very, like we
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: are now in an oil rig with Tom Cruise and
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: he's going nuts and all these people are here with
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: him and they're isolated. And then he, you know, he
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: throws himself into the ocean and the audience applauds and
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: it's like, right, this is a play. I'm like, this is,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: this is, and I think in a rot to, in
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: an interview was talking about it. He's like, this film
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: is ultimately a, it's like amusing on trauma and like
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: collective trauma and like, We as society moving through trauma together.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: And look, to speak to the Donald Trump of this
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: whole thing and to the I think the the world
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: that this exists in and the world that we exist in,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: there will come a time when people like this are
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: gone and we can applaud that moment. But at the
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: end of the day, like we're applauding a moment that
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: it ultimately has no bearing on anything because the damage
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: has been done. And what we're applauding is empty. And
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: that's the thing that I love about this movie is
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: at the end of the film, it's like all these
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: people are applauding and they're getting this kind of moment
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: of like restitution. It's just like, you know, again, you
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: can feel it because he throws himself into the water
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: and they linger on him drowning. And the audience, the
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: moment he kills himself, the audience is cheering. There is
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: no sadness for Digger Rockwell killing himself. And then it's like, oh,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: but by the way, you have to go back out
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: into this world where everybody has to wear these fucking
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: face masks and can't breathe because Digger Rockwell fucked the world.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: That last five minutes of this movie really hits. And
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: I really like that we get to leave the theater. Yeah.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: And that for me was.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: Like to see what the real world is.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, that was for me, the best parts of
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: the Birdman were when we were outside of the theater.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: here you have something very similar it feels you feel
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: much more alive when you get out of that theater
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: but then you see just how shit everything is and
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: just that the wall with the all the cars and
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: the guy who's standing guard there and i'm just like
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: wow this this looks amazing like and just how bad
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: everything looks you really just feel for all these people
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: and then i I know it's a little much, but
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: I like that the movie actually ends with the same
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: warning that the audience in the theater got. I thought
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: it could have been too much, but I was like, okay,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: this works for me. I like that we are now
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: in this world. He's hitting it on the head a
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: little much, but I was like, okay, I'm okay with
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: Well, and the question that I have, you know, because
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: we see we see at the end of the film,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: it says the 25th anniversary of the cult classic.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: So this is 25 years further than the than than
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: the original version of this, which, again, maybe starred Curtis
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: Marks and maybe didn't. But the question that I have
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: is none of this like, you know, lore bullshit. It's
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: just how long ago did this happen?
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: How long has it been since the world was destroyed?
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: Because we're led to believe that it's like, oh, this
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: just by us, the audience were meant to perceive that
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: this just happened yesterday. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: This did not just happen yesterday. This just happened. This
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: could have happened a hundred years ago. Who even knows? Right. Right.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: Well, there is the the nephew. There is the Jesse
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Plemons character. That's true.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: That is I guess that would. But we don't know
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: how old.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And it is odd to me, because I think
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: it's the same kid playing the nephew when he's playing
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: with the cat, and then they have the five-year jump.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: And I think it's the same kid that's the nephew
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: on the oil derrick.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: Well, it would make sense, given the actor.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: It would, but I was like, five years at that age,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: they probably should have got a different Yeah, I know,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: but they probably should have had a different actor. But yes,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: so that's the only.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: Thing that ties us. I'm just saying it makes sense
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: inside of the narrative.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: Inside of the play. Yes, there you go. Right. Yeah, which, again,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: what did I just do? I forget that it's a play,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: even though we do have the very pointed ending. And
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: I like when they will suddenly shift. And you see
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: the wires, you know, or like you see the clouds
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: moving outside and you see the mechanics of, you know,
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: there's no fucking way that this is what actually sold it.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: But it's kind of like, it almost reminded me of
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: that shot in Barbie. And you know exactly what shot
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about when I say that, just that whole
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: artificial world that she's going through and you see the
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: wheels turning and everything. And it's just like, this is
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: so great. That's what those moments in here, like when
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: you see the bombing of Gremlin Nova and and then
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: you see the sticks on top of the planes i'm
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: just like i like when he does that when he
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: will just pull it back for a second and remind
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: you that you're watching a play but not enough that
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: it it doesn't ever feel like i'm being dragged out
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: or like shocked into something because that for me is
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: the one of the worst feelings where you're just like
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: you know oh gosh i'm watching this i'm not watching that.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: It's the only the first one is the only one
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: it's the which it You don't need to do it
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: any more than once.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And the other changes, like I mentioned before we
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: started talking spoilers, I mentioned the hole in the ceiling.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: And that's when you're just like, what the fuck is
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: going on? Why is there a hole in the ceiling
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: in this nice hotel that they're in? And then you're like, oh,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: you idiot. It's because we're in a play. But then
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: you have to take it one step further and go,
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: we're in a play after the apocalypse. And so... you
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: were lucky to have a ceiling at all and then
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: you think back to the all the water dripping and
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: also I love that the sound of the water and
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: the buckets and all that kind of stuff is the
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: soundtrack and you've heard those buckets already like in that
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: opening when he's just walking through and getting ready for
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: the day that sound mix is fucking fantastic I love
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: what they're doing with music because again it reminds me
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: of the birdman thing with all of the percussion it's
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: very similar there's a lot of percussion to this but
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: it's almost all natural noises i really i want to
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: dig in pun intended into the composer and find out
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit more about what he was doing with
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: this because i think it's fantastic and i'm sorry to
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: say he it could have been she or they um
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: but yeah i don't know who did the music for
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: this but.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: Cosmo sheldrake what a name Cosmo Sheldrake. My parents didn't
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: name you creatively enough. What's your real name? What's your
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: real name? Christopher... Oh, see, his name is Cosmo Christopher Sheldrake. Man,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: my parents really screwed up. They should have given me
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: a name like that. Like, I don't know, Nebula or
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: Galaxian or, you know.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: I don't see that he's done movies before. It's all...
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: Cosmo Sheldrake, The Moss, Live at the Village, Cosmo Sheldrake This.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is, okay, I guess there are some.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: Bear McCreary, though, like an established musician who you just
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: talked to on our podcast of power that's come back
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: that we're doing. it's a, it's, it's nice to see
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: directors working with just like musician.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: You know, uh, that feels like an in your auto
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: thing though, too.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's a very, like, it's a very
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: now director thing. I was going to say like David
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: Gordon green did that with John Carpenter's son, that same
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: thing on those Halloween movies. It's like, I want to
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: work with a musician as opposed to just like a,
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: you know, a composer, you know, I don't want to,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: you know, Chris Nolan is keeping Hans Zimmer busy. We're,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: we're sure.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's going to
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: know if I guess, right.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I love that somebody like Sergio Leone would
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: work with Morricone and be like, no, write the music first,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: and then I'm going to play it and have the
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: actors act to the music. And it's like, yeah, why
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: can't we do that more often? But instead, it's like, well,
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: we did have this guy, and then we fired him
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: two weeks before the release and threw away everything that
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: he did. I mean, my copy of Drive still has
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: Angelo Badalamente's name on it even though it's not his
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: score like it was that last minute that the credits
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: were done and he still was the the composer listed
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: and then they had to switch it out at the
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: last moment for whoever it was junkie xl or i
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: don't know who ended up doing the the music for
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: it after that but i'm just like wow this is
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: a last minute thing so the actors no way could
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: they act to that music you know it's it's it's
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: amazing and so yeah i love a good symbiotic relationship
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: with a composer.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember. I just watched something where it
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: was like Jerry Goldsmith was originally doing the music for
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: this and then they just they changed it. And I
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, what was I? I don't remember something
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: I just watched where it was just like I think
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: was maybe timeline. I think is what it was. You know,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: that Michael Crichton film that.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: Everyone was a bad one.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: Hey, now, I was Butler that one and Paul Walker
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: in the same film.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, so much personality.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: Before they became famous. Hey, Gerard Butler is a good actor.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: Come on. Gerard Butler is good, though, of course, my
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: favorite role of his is in Reign of Fire.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, man, we need to do that movie together, man.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: We do. I've been trying to get a hold.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: I saw that fucking movie in theaters.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: Who's the guy that did it? Rob Bowman? Is that right?
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Is that who it is? Is it the guy who
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: did the third Mummy movie?
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about the, well, yeah, did he do
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: the third Mummy movie?
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: Was he the one who did that movie with like
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: Jamie Foxx and Jessica Biel where they're fighting the sentient airplane?
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, got stealth, right?
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: No, maybe that's not him.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a different one. You're right.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: No, Rob Bowman is the guy who directed the X-Files movie.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: That's what it is.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah. So yeah, I've been trying to
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: get a hold of him for years because I'm like, yeah,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: let's talk about Reign of Fire, dude. Like, I'm sure
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: people shit all over that movie, but I fucking love it.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: I fucking love that movie. And by the way, Rob
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: Bowman directed Elektra, which got mentioned, like, what, two years
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: ago in those Deadpool movies? And there's a distinct possibility
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: that it gets mentioned again this year, later this year?
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure, yeah. I mean, now that Channing Tatum
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: has officially taken the role of Gambit, and I'm like,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: that was a throwaway joke from Deadpool Wolverine, and now
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: it's canon. Okay, okay.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, sure. Well, canon for as long as the MCU
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: wants it to be.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: Right, until the multiverse collapses.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: Collapses, and then everybody's recast. And that's, you know what,
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: I want to mention that, because that's the thing, like,
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, the movies that he makes tend to be
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: films that compete with that kind of film. Right. And
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: with Endgame. And I don't know what.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: I think he's in the Marvel Universe. Is he?
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: No, he's not.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: He was just in the Dark Universe. And I think
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: that was it. Like, he is his own franchise. Yeah,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: he was in the movie.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: The Dark Universe never really existed, Mike.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: That was you hallucinating. You hallucinated. It was a hallucination.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: Universal disavows any knowledge of dark universe.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: It's so funny. And then they basically built their park
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: and stuff. All of those new rides that they're doing
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: are all dark universe shit.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: Well, they're sort of their universal monsters now are their
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: own connected thing. And it's like, oh, because it didn't
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: work when you cast other people. Who cares, right? Universal
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: is just... Universal, like all these other big studios, is
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: probably just going to end up being, I guess, owned
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: by Tom Cruise in the end or whatever Skydance is.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Isn't that the name of his production company?
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: Or there's that a-hole that's merging the Paramount and Warner Brothers, right?
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: Trump's friend?
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or Zaslav. Yeah. Or Zaslav. Yeah. I have no
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: problem with a movie like this. I just have a
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: problem with a movie like this being advertised like this
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: because it, to me, strikes an issue at the core
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: of advertising a film incorrectly and missing the audience who
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: should be watching it. Just like Edge of Tomorrow. I mean,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: that's an amazing movie. And that movie, they couldn't even
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: decide on the fucking title for that movie.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: It has like, what, two titles at least? Live, Die, Repeat,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: I think is at least one of the titles, or Kill, Die, Repeat,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: and then Edge of Tomorrow, which, by the way, neither
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: of the titles are good. And I know one of
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: those is the original title of the original manga it's
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: based on, but I don't care. Those are both terrible titles. Like,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: genuinely not great. So maybe roll again.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Third one. Yeah, yeah, none of them were good. And
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: then they came out with that anime version of Must,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: what was it called? All I Do Is Kill? kill
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: and kill again kill.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: Kill kill kill some more killer mommy.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: Right yeah mommy may I go out and kill.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: Tonight any names are better than the name that they
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: ultimately gave it because edge of tomorrow doesn't even make
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: any sense all you need is kill live die repeat
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: and yeah all you need is kill is the original.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Name yeah It was also marketed as.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: Live, Die, Repeat, colon, Edge of Tomorrow. So the film
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: technically had three names.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: Because I think they did a re-release under that new title.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: Because that was on the poster, and it was like
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: the poster catchphrase became the movie title.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that that's happened before, but I would be
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: hard-pressed to think of that. I bet you that a
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: movie sequel has been named after the tagline on the
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: previous poster but I can't think of one where it's
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: just like oh yeah we're gonna rename the movie after
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: the tagline on the poster that's yeah.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: Man that's and that's again like to go back to
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: the Tom Cruise of it all like that movie's so
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: good because he's in it because him and Emily Blunt
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: who I'm personally not a huge fan of her I
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: like her a lot she's fine like it's whatever like
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: she's just a lot of the stuff I've seen her
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: in has been more like disclosure day where I'm like
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: okay like you're fine yeah But she's good in that.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: Her and Tom Cruise have great chemistry. That's the thing.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is a very charismatic actor. And that's not
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: a bad thing. But I think actors who are successful
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: and charismatic tend to be lightning rods for all kinds
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: of people's opinions. I mean, there are plenty of actors
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: working in Hollywood that no one gives a shit about.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: And those actors are probably okay with that being the case,
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: is my point. They like being able to go out
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: to a restaurant, eat lunch, and not be hounded by people.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe someone comes up to them and says, oh, I
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: loved you in... x y or z but they're not
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: unable to leave without someone like jumping all.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: Over right exactly yeah it's not like poor ben affleck
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: who can't enjoy a cup of dunkin donuts without having
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: somebody make a meme out of it you know or
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: have a cigarette outside kind of thing it's like okay
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: you know all right I.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: Don't blame Tom Cruise for having that reaction to his
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: life because I don't live his life and I don't
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: know what it's like to be that famous. And it's
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: not like he did or didn't ask to be that famous.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: He's just that good at what he does. He is
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: a genuinely talented actor. To me, he's like Tom Hanks.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: It's like Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks are kind of
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: 1A and 1B in terms of male American actors that
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: are well-known across the globe. You'll notice I didn't mention
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: Schwarzenegger or Stallone or some of those actors like They're
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: kind of in their own class of thing. But Tom
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: Cruise and Tom Hanks, I think, have transcended any boundary
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: genre or anything else. And Tom Hanks just doesn't have
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: any of the, you know, has none of the, quote,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: problematic nature, unquote, of Tom Cruise.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: That's not what his son would say. That's not what
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: his redneck son would say.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: He was on Little St. James Island. Is that what
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: he was saying? Yeah. Like he's hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. Sure. Okay.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, you got like Colin Hanks, who just seems
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: like the most genuinely nice guy. Honestly, projects that are
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: really cool. Like that documentary about tower records and stuff.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: And then you've got, yeah. Like, the redneck son is
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: just like, he got COVID. He should have taken horse pace.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, dude, Tom Hanks is redneck son is
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: not Tom Hanks is redneck son. Sounds like the name
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: of a song by like a metal band. Like Tom
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Hanks is red. We're going to play that next. Cause
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: he's a fucking nut ball, which is fine. Like, you
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: know what? Like I, I, I know plenty of people
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: who have nice family members and nut ball family members
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: and the parents are fine, but the kids are all
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: fucked up. Like, I don't know if Tom Hanks is
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: a fucked up guy. He might be. But you know what?
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: It might be one of those Jimmy Savile things. Yeah.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: Hopefully after he passes away. The Tom Hanks story. We
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: find out that this beloved star, he was known as
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: a crossdresser in his very first television role.
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: 30 years from now.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: Before he worshipped Satan and maces and monsters. Now they
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: have to suddenly twist it. He put this black man
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: to death in the green mile.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. People would like during like Jim
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: will fix it. Like they would never have guessed that
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: the guy that was like, Oh, I'm just an every man.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just raping kids. Like, I mean, yeah, he wasn't
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: saying that, but that's what he was fucking doing. So it's,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: you know, again, Tom Cruise, I don't think he's doing
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: that anymore than Tom Hanks is. It's just when you're
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: that level and caliber of actor, it's, it's hard to
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: avoid being a lightning rod. And I think that may
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: be the thing for me that makes me think that
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: the character that Tom Cruise is playing in this movie
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: is not necessarily meant to be him, is Tom Cruise does...
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: What the fuck movie do we... Tom Cruise doesn't work
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: on stage. Right, right. He would never lower himself to
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: In like the slums of whatever fucking city this is
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: supposed to be in. Cause that's the other thing. It's like,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: where is this being put on? It looks like it's
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: being put on off Broadway. Like this world is so
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: fucked up. And here's this like little theater troupe putting
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: on this thing. I'm like, yes, it's impressive by the
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: scale of what they're doing. But also at the same time,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: it's like, what a waste of time and energy in
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: this world. But got to keep people entertained, I guess.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: Even as the buildings burn down, people still got to
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: be entertained. They want to see the guy who ruined
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: the world die. I think we will.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: From your mouth. Yeah, we should do an Edge of
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow episode one of these days because I mean, it
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: goes through the entire hero's journey in the course of
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: a day. You know, I love that. Such a good movie.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: Such a great movie.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: Yep. But yeah, like I said, I don't think I
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: appreciated this movie nearly as much as I did until
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: we had this conversation. I was not necessarily prepared to
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: bag on this. I was basically prepared to dam it
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: with faint praise. And that was about it. But now
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: after having this talk, I'm just like, yeah, okay, I
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: can get into this.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I, I mentioned like, oh, Tom Cruise might
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: win an Oscar for this. If Tom Cruise were to
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: win an Oscar for this, it would be the Academy
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: finally acknowledging like we can give someone an Oscar for
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: having a role that's fun and like, like entertaining. And
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: it doesn't just have to be like, I'm Rami Malek
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: and I'm playing Freddie Mercury. Like, oh, fuck you. Like,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: who cares? Like, Like this, this is the way you
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: do something like this. If you're going to approach a
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: real person, which is don't be obvious about it. I mean,
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: to go back to the Kubrick of it all, it
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: is crazy to me that this film is being compared
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: to Dr. Strangelove, which is a film that Stanley Kubrick
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: directed and Stanley Kubrick worked with Tom Cruise. And Tom
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: Cruise was one of the few, like he's one of
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: the few actors still working. That's like a con that
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: worked with Kubrick. Like there are not a lot of
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: actors working that worked with Kubrick, especially contemporary actors. Like
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: that's a very short list of people. in terms of
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: people of Tom Cruise's caliber. It's like him, Nicole Kidman,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: handful of other people. But Kubrick wasn't pumping out films.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: And if you look at Ina Ratu, neither is he.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: It's been, like, what? Birdman was only three films ago
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: or four films ago. It's like, it's not, he has
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: a filmography.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: Birdman was four movies ago and that was 2014. He's
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: made three movies since 2014. That is a very low number,
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: but that's because he's, I think genuinely an auteur. I
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: think in a rot to is an auteur and auteur
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: made this movie. I, this is one of these times
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, if this movie won awards, I would
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: not be disappointed. I'd be like, okay, like, sure. I
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: vibe with that. Like this movie is self-aware enough. And again,
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: I think if you had cast anybody other than Tom Cruise,
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: this movie doesn't work. Right. Genuinely, like this movie only
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: really works because you have it's like Tropic Thunder. If
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: Tropic Thunder with Tom Cruise wasn't in Tropic Thunder, I
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: don't know how funny the Ben Stiller of it all
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: would be.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: I am very curious if if when it comes time
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: for the Oscar ceremony, what part of the ceremony is
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: it going to be in? Is it going to be
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: in the, here's the nomination for Tom Cruise, or is
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: it going to be in the opening monologue talking about
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: what a big dud this was and how they swung
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: big and missed terribly? Because I don't genuinely know. You know,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: we're talking about this two days after it came out.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: There wasn't a whole lot of like, you know, repress
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: for this kind of thing like I just started to
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: hear on Wednesday oh people don't like this movie I'm
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: curious where it's going to be in a few months
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: when it comes time to cast those ballots are people
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: going to think of it as fondly as we're talking
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: about it or are people just going to be like
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: oh yeah way way too big they fucked up they
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have done this Tom Cruise sucks.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask you something similar because
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, I think we've come kind of like
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: all the way around the bend on this movie, but
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's an interesting point of kind of note here,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: something else we talked about earlier this year in March,
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: which feels like a lifetime ago. We talked about another
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: film that was a film by a Quote, auteur, unquote.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to give her that. Not because I
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: don't think she is one, but I don't think she
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: deserves to be called that after having made one movie,
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: The Bride. Right. That movie was $ 100 million and made
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: $ 20 million. That movie stunk. On ice. And I don't know.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: And like, it didn't stink because, Oh, it's a woman
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: or blah, blah, blah, whatever. No, that shit. It's not
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: a good movie. It's really heavy handed with its imagery
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: and its messaging and just, and it's also excessive. Like
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: that's the thing about this movie. I, I don't see
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: any of this movie as excessive. Like it's all this
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: movie is very intentional. The bride could take some notes
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: from trying to do kind of a movie within a
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: movie type thing or a period piece type thing. Like
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: this is how you do that without being excessive. This movie,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: like I think navigated what the bride couldn't do. But
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: the problem is this, the success of this movie is
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: the same. It's actually worse than the bride. This movie
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: made less money based on the amount of money that
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: was spent.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: On it publicly.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: You know, The Bride had half the budget of this movie.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. I was wondering that as well. Like,
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: will that be like when Conan O'Brien takes the stage like, oh, digger,
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: or whatever, like shows up on stage with like a
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: shovel or shovel. Yeah, exactly. Digging for the money that
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: the movie made.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: A hard hat, yeah.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that fucking scene in Vegas Vacation. Oh, we're
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: out here, you buying coffee. Like, it'll be something like that. Like,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: we're looking for the money that the movie made. I
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised, or is it like this movie has
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: turned it around because it found its audience after the fact?
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: Problem is, six months from now ain't gonna be that time.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: That's going to be, you know, probably five years from now,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: 10 years from now, maybe less than that. But this
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: is a movie that I think has longer legs than
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: right now. And there are plenty of movies that come
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: out and then everybody forgets about it by the end
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: of the year. I don't think this is one of those.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: I don't. But I don't, to your point, know where
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: this is going to end up, because I think a
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: movie like The Bride is going to be in that
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: group of things that is like made fun of consistently
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: and poked fun at. I'm still disappointed in myself that
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: I spent money on that fucking movie to go see it.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: You spent movie on that money?
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: I like movies.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: We should be friends.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: I couldn't even keep it straight. I didn't leave Digger
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: being like, I wasted my money. I left the bride going,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: I wasted my money. That's probably the highest transactional you know,
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: kind of compliment I can give this movie is I
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: don't feel like this movie wasted my money. But by
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: the sounds of it, a lot of people who went
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: and saw it feel like their money and time were wasted.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: And I get it. But I also think that, like
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: I said, the advertising did this film no favors. And
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: if you, again, are selling it on it being a
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise movie, this is like the least Tom Cruise
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: movie that he's done in a long time. But it's
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: also the most Tom Cruise movie I can think of, frankly.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: No, I think you're totally right. And yeah, this fits
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: in with those challenging roles that we've talked about tonight.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that people tend to forget those and
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: they tend to think about the hits and things that
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: allowed him to do other things like a digger.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: Which is on them. Like that's on you. Like the,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: if you only think of Mel Gibson as the guy
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: who is in lethal weapon, like there's a lot of
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: other things he's done and did that you could think about,
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: or the guy in mad max, like it's what Tom
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: Cruise is just the guy who was top gun and
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: Ethan hunt. Like that's it. Like, yeah, he has a
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: lot of other roles, like a lot, a lot of,
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: and I mean, again, I don't, I don't know why
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: people would leave minority report off that list. Like he's
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: worked with goddamn everybody, Tom. I, yeah. I don't know.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, it's one of those things where when
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: we talk about like, you know, George Lucas or Steven
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: Spielberg or even like, you know, some of those other
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: kind of like Hollywood brat directors, it's like I wish
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: that I could have one thing as successful as Star Wars,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: let alone Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Jaws. And
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: it's like Tom Cruise is that same way. He's in
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: that kind of hallowed names of people. That's like Tom
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: Cruise has had a massive effect on pop culture. Period.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: The man has. Not the roles, not the movies, the man.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: And that is not necessary. That is a hard, if
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: not the hardest thing to attain in the entertainment industry anymore,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: is you being eminently successful for who you are, not
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: for your accomplice. Like, he's just Tom Cruise. Like, he's just...
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: You know who he is? He's like Coca-Cola and McDonald's
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: at this point. Like, it's just... He's a brand.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: He's been so iconic from the beginning. I mean... I
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: know you're way too young for this, but either you
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: have seen this or you can believe that him sliding
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: into the room in his socks and underwear and shirt
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: with the sunglasses on and strutting around to Old Time
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: Rock and Roll by Bob Seger, that was everywhere. People
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: were parroting that from the jump. That became this moment.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: And that was before fucking Top Gun, which boosted the...
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: People's lives were changed because everyone was signing up to
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: go to flight school after that. I mean, it's crazy
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: the effect that he's had on pop culture from the beginning.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, people were railing about Legend when it came out.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, this is such a horrible, horrible movie.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, not really. But I think even then
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: it was because Tom Cruise is in this, we now
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: hold it to this higher expectation. So from the beginning,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: this guy had this weight kind of around his neck,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: whether he wanted it or not, that he was this
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: public figure to be either held up or ridiculed.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: Well, you asked about risky business and I have them
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: sitting on my desk, but my Ray-Bans that I own,
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: I own Ray-Bans, the exact kind that he has in
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: risky business. And I keep them on my floor. If
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: you see me out in public and I don't have
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: my hair up in a ponytail or a bun, I
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: normally have my sunglasses on my head to keep my
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: hair out of my face. And I had... On Facebook
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: when I was in high school, after I watched Risky
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: Business when I was in high school, I had that
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: fucking picture of Tom Cruise doing that with the Ray-Bans
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: because I was like, he's cool. I'm sorry. He gets it.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe he's got his problems. I'm sure he does. And
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: I've heard all the horror stories about Scientology and the
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: things that he might have done. You know what? Again,
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: like if I leave all that at the door, not
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: because I don't care, but because like, what the fuck
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: do you want me to do about it, Frank? Like, well,
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: that's what the movie says. Even the movie is even
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: just like, what are you going to fucking do? Even
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: if you could do anything like nothing, like nothing. So
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: do you want to live or do you want to,
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: do you want to live and not worry about it
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: to some extent? Or do you want to not live
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: and worry about it all the time? And it's like, I,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: I'd like to, to be down the middle, not too
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: far in either direction. And so many people just like,
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: I won't do this now. I won't do that. I'm
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: just like, you know what? Whatever. Fine. You do you
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: don't judge me for doing me.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: You hear the horror stories about Scientology. You hear the
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: horror stories about maybe even Tom Cruise, but then you
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: hear the stories, the really fucked up little stories. Like,
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: him and Simon Pegg, and they're in Dubai, and they're
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: filming a scene, and they're in this car, and I
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: think it's Tom Cruise turns on the heated seat that
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: Simon Pegg was in, and then put a little piece
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: of black tape over it so you couldn't tell that
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: it was lit up, that the heated seat was on.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: Just little stupid shit like that. Or the thing that
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: I always hear, which is, if you ever work with
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: Tom Cruise... he will find out your birthday and you
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: will get birthday cakes from him for the rest of
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: your fucking life.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: And a cake that's supposedly like amazing.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: Some sort of like weird ass cake that it's like
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: the Tom Cruise cake is what it's called.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: I looked up the recipe. I had thought about making
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: it a couple times. I'll give this that goddamn good. Wow.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing about it. Like, again, like I
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: don't give a shit about your fucking religion. I don't.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: And that's broadly like anybody, like, Unless you're pushing it
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: on me, which that's the weird part. Again, Tom Cruise,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: not pushing it on anybody. Like it's right. He is,
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, be a Scientologist, but he's
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: a better steward of Scientology than some people I know
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: personally and their religious beliefs and them not shutting the
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: fuck up about it. Like you want to hate him
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: for his religion. Fine. He honestly seems like the kind
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: of guy who gives a shit about what he does
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: and the people he works with. I remember, you know,
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: We've never had one of those Tom Cruise freaks out
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: on set things, but we have had that thing during
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: the pandemic where Tom Cruise was like, we're not fucking
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: around here. And it's like, you know what? I can
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: get down with that because I think Tom Cruise likes
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: to work and he likes working and acting. And if
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: that shit wasn't being taken seriously, you weren't going to
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: get to act and work because a set is full
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: of people from all walks of life. It's not just
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: rich people making movies, dinguses. Like it's literally people that
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: go and live in an apartment with four other people
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: in L.A. or in where they film this in Pine
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: Tree Studio. Yeah, Pine Tree, right? Is that what it's called? Pinewood. Pinewood, yeah.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: So they filmed this in London. So in their flats,
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: more apt. But like Tom Cruise, again, the stories I've
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: heard seem to focus around Scientology, which, OK, that's his choice.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: All the other stuff, like you said, he seems like
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: a pretty stand up guy. Maybe we're just dick riding here,
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: but I don't think that that's the I just I
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: don't like if I if I if I come off
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: as someone who's an apologist, that's fine. But I don't
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: think you should have to apologize. Enjoying the most successful
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: male movie star of the last 30 years is work
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: like fuck.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: It's like apologizing for Marvel films like I'm a Marvel apologist.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Like you mean the movies that made a billion dollars? Yeah. Apologize, please.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: Like you're not supposed to like those movies.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: They're not good right now, but so what? That doesn't
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: mean they can't be good again. There was a time
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: when I didn't like those movies, you know? Oh, did
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: you go see Endgame?
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: Went to see Endgame, yeah. And I cried more this
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: time than I ever have at that movie. And I
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: get really emotional. I mean, when Peter Parker swings in,
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: And Iron Man sees him. Oh, my God. I mean,
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: it was just waterworks having Peter come back. So, yeah,
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: I'm a sucker for that stuff. And I'm supposed to
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: feel bad, but I don't. So, no guilty pleasures.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: No guilty pleasures. Just pleasures. Just pleasures, yeah. People who
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: say guilty pleasures, you know what those people have? A
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: lack of fun in their lives.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: They have guilt.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they have guilt. Like, I don't have guilt for
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: watching a fucking movie, okay?
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: I really don't. No, and.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: I will stand by Free Jack anytime. I know it's
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: a horrible movie, but I love it.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: I don't even preface things anymore. It's like, you know what?
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: There are so many movies that people love that I'm like,
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: that's a horrible movie, but I'm not going to be like,
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: that's a horrible movie. I don't care. I like all
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: kinds of things that other people don't like. So what?
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: Like whatever, man, it's yeah. That's. And that's the thing.
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: Like with Tom Cruise, I'm like, I, I frankly, I
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: don't care what your opinion is. Anybody like you have
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: your own opinion, but go watch this movie. And if
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: you don't enjoy this movie, don't enjoy this movie on
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: what it's asking you to do. Not because you don't
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: like Tom Cruise. Like, If you don't want to watch
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: this movie because you don't like Tom Cruise, I get that.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: But if you're at least amenable to the idea, this
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: movie I don't think is any more or less offensive
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: than any other actor, director-driven, auteur indie film. If it
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: wasn't Tom Cruise, this film would probably just go and
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: be an indie film and who cares, you know?
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: You know, the thing that I'm looking forward to is
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: the two and a half hour, close to three hour
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: conversation that we're going to have about Street Fighter.
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, me too. Yeah. And I can't even imagine how
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: long our Doomsday podcast is going to be.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: Is that Doomsday, did you say? We're doing both?
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, aren't we doing both?
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: I kind of have to see both that weekend. We
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: have to see both.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: God in heaven. We're going to spend like six hours
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: at a movie theater. Oh, yeah.
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: You saw a preview for Dune 3, a film that,
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: by the way, I'd like to point this out. I
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: would not have fucking believed you if you had said,
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: we're going to get a third Dune movie after seeing
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: that second one. Not because it wasn't successful, not because
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: it didn't make a shitload of money, but it's just like, okay,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: so now we're adapting. Now I'm like, and I have
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: not shared this with you, but I'll share it here
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: because people that listen to these episodes tend to also
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: be the ones that listen to the stuff like Dune
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: and Doomsday, the new stuff. I'm actually kind of excited
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: for Dune 3. because that's not really been adapted in
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: a big screen format anywhere else. And you know what?
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe they, maybe the evil noves like, Oh, so wait
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: a second. Paul's not the good guy.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: Which is like, finally, you know, it's like no shit guys. Right. Right.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of why I prefer, uh,
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: David Lynch is doing because he is the good guy
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: in that movie. He never does become the bad guy.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: So there's no shades of gray there. It's like, okay,
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: That's also Kyle McLaughlin. Like, can that man do any wrong? Like, no,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: he's the internet. He's the internet's like weird grandpa now. Yeah.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: He's so endearing. He's like, I have a podcast. He's,
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: he's doing the podcast thing, right? He's like, I'm an
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: old man who's trying to understand kids these days. So
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: I have a podcast about it. Like how wholesome Kyle McLaughlin. Nice.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: I think I just saw him. He's eating some chicken
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: wings on hot ones or something.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: So God, Oh my good Lord. Has Tom Cruise done
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: that yet? Did he do that for this movie? Did
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: he go eat chicken wings yet?
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, he should.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: Is he doing the circuit? Is he too big?
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. This camera, this camera, this camera. Chris, tell
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: me when you're not here talking about Digger, what are
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: you working on?
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. Well, what am I working on? I'm
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: working on only the best audio that can be found
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: over weirdingwaymedia.com where you and I, and so many other
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: of our audio-obsessed friends talk about movies and TV and
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: everything in between. I'm adding some TV stuff to my show,
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: Feed the Culture Cast, because I like to call it
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: my show's feed now, not so much my show, because
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: now within my feed of the Culture Cast, there is
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: required viewing, which I do with my friend, Dr. David
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: Perlmutter of Texas Tech. He's a professor of communications and
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: media over there. We talk about films and why you
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: should watch them from a 360 degree perspective. Mike was
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: just on there talking about the Maltese Falcon. And then
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: with my friend, Brian Renfro, who's also on our network,
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: we do a show called Culture Meltdown, where we just...
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: talk about whatever we want to in terms of movies
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: or TV, possibly. But that can all be found on
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: my feed, The Culture Cast. But more importantly, all the
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: other shows that I'm not on, like Mike's show, The
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: Projection Booth, which has been going for, going on 14
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: years now, I think, Mike?
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: 15 and a half.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: 15 and a half, Jesus Christ. Almost old enough to
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: drive in some state. If you have not listened to
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: Mike's show, Listen to his show before my show because
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: his show is, like so many people that movie podcast now,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: the reason I do my show because it is a
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: movie podcast. And movie podcasts are not as big of
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: a deal as you think. It's a rather small market.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: And Mike's is the best movie podcast out there. If
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: you're not listening to it, head on over to weirdingwaymedia.com
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: where you can hear it along with a lot of
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: great other shows like 80s TV Ladies, like Never Tell
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: Me the Odds, which is a Harrison Ford podcast that
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: Mike and I are doing with our friend Richard Haddam.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: He's finally part of the network. We stole him away
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: even for a little while. And, uh, yeah, that show
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: starts in September. So, uh, I guess, no, I guess
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: that show starts what soon?
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: Now? When?
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: November?
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: November.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: Hmm. Maybe.
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: I'm editing this. So I'll remember.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: Um, okay.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: And yeah, no later this year, you'll be able to
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: hear us talking about Harrison Ford with never tell me
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: the odds, which is our continuation of our Patreon exclusive
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: show ranking on bond, which you can still find at
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: my Patreon, patreon.com slash culture cast and Mike's Patreon, patreon.com
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: slash projection booth. That's where you can go to kick
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: some money our way. You can hear ranking on bond
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: and its entirety, but more importantly, you're supporting us, which
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: helps us out and allows us to continue to do this.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: Not that we're going to stop because we don't make money. But,
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: you know, every dollar helps us offset the cost of
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: going to see Digger in theaters. Apparently it's six dollars.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: We're Mike.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: Nah, nah, nah, nah. Perfect. Cool. That was a good one.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: I did not expect to talk.