Latest / The Junto Podcast / E22: When Violence Becomes the Only Answer: Preparing Schools, Churches, and Workplaces

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E22: When Violence Becomes the Only Answer: Preparing Schools, Churches, and Workplaces · The Junto Podcast

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Music.
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Hello, America. Welcome to the Junto Podcast, where we promote the practical
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applications of critical thinking and bold creativity.
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I am your host, Edgar Mills. Thanks for joining us.
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Music.
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Violence. Violence is never the answer until it's the only answer. What about that?
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Hello, good folks. Welcome to this episode. Thanks for sticking with me.
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Today, we're going to talk about a thing. Now, look, I don't normally do the
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sort of flavor of the week topics.
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But today, because I had this topic on deck, it just happens to be yet another incident to reiterate.
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Today, we're going to be talking about active killers, active shooters, and things like that.
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And what we're going to talk about is, yeah, maybe some examples,
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but we're going to talk about some ways to combat these active killers.
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So, and also, look, I'm going to give you, of course, my opinion from an objectively
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formed opinion, but with a libertarian lean, of course.
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But mainly we're going to focus on facts.
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We're going to focus on how to be prepared just
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sort of generally and then we're going to talk about some tactics
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and and things like that and we're going to kind of
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avoid speculations on motives and and all that a lot of these motives are excuse
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me a lot of these motives are pretty obvious some of them less so so let's get
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into it there's a couple of examples and i tell you I'm going to start with
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the one that was just the day before yesterday,
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and that is the Catholic School in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
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Now, ultimately, I think two kids were critically injured, and I think they died.
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And then about 17 folks were injured, mostly children.
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And as that plays out, I'm calling that an external human threat.
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Keep that phrase in mind because we're going to hit that later.
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And this was a 23-year-old guy who identified as a woman, transjudicial woman.
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And he went into this Catholic church school and fired through windows during
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Mass. It was a plant attack.
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He left a manifesto of uniquely written language.
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He made references to Sandy Hook. He had his AR-15 magazines with slogans on
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them, like, Kill Donald Trump, and this one's for the kids, and just bizarre stuff like that.
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So, again, guy walked into and shot through church windows at a mass.
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There was a shooting in Perry High School in Iowa.
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This was last year. It was the first day back from winter break.
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The shooter was a 17-year-old, and he had a pump-action shotgun and a handgun.
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And he had some improvised explosive devices.
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And I think he killed, I only think it was a couple.
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He opened fire in a cafeteria, and obviously students and staff,
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I think an 11-year-old died, and four other students and a principal.
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Were shot and so
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not that many but the commonality here is
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it was at a school it was the whole thing lasted
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about five minutes and then and he shot himself as did
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the as did the robin robert
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westman of of the catholic school shooting so he so he killed himself and then
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police came and just had to clean it up let's see let's find another one here
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oh okay close to home And this was just, you know, last year,
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not quite a year ago, almost a year ago,
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Appalachee High School in Winder, Georgia.
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Circumstances of that were that this was a younger kid, 14, arrived to school on the bus.
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And he had an AR-15 with him. How did that happen? I don't know.
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He had it concealed in the backpack. He had a knife.
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And this was his first day back to school after like a nine day,
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like nine days absent. I don't know if that was a suspension or if he was sick or what.
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Now, this guy had a history of threats, online threats.
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And he walked out of his algebra class in the morning, came back with his gun,
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was denied entry into the classroom because the door was locked.
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And then he just started firing in the hallway and
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in other classrooms and he he killed
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two students and two teachers and then injured several more now what's unique
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about this one yes it was in a school and he was a student at that school so
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i'm going to call that internal human threat he went to that school he had reason
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he had placement right he had a reason to be at that school.
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So that's what we're calling an internal human threat.
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And let's keep that in mind. And ultimately, that guy's dad got charged.
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Yeah, that guy's dad got charged. Now you can like it or lump it.
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Yeah, I mean, I think parents are responsible for their children's behavior as youth.
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At some point in the teen years, that becomes a little more gray area though,
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doesn't So that guy's dad is in jail right now.
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And that kid, I don't know what his status is right now. He didn't die.
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He didn't kill himself. Let me see if I can see what the... Let's see. I don't see.
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Yeah, he was arrested, but I don't know what his current status is.
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I got to imagine he's in some kind of mental sort of lockdown.
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Yeah, I got to imagine. But his dad is certainly in jail for giving him access,
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free access, unsupervised access to an AR-15 rifle. All right. So...
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That's just a few examples. I'm not coming on here to talk about those things in detail.
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That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about school shootings,
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church shootings, workplace shootings, or any other kind of violence,
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whether it's shootings or just stabbing or whatever else, or bombs or anything.
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Workplace, house of worship, and education, places where violence can be done.
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Now, what was the thing I said at the very beginning of the episode, folks?
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I said violence. Violence is never the answer until it's the only answer.
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Some of you may take issue with that.
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The legitimately only way to stop someone who's willing to trade their life
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for carnage is to kill that person.
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Now, a lot of these happen to play out, not just the ones I mentioned, but a lot of them,
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mass shootings, play out with the person committing suicide once they're confronted
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or they feel like there's no further exit or whatnot or they've killed who they
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wanted to kill, things like that.
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All right, so these examples illustrate the impact of immediate action in these places.
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Now, what do you like it or not? If you work at a school or if you're on staff
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at a church or any workplace.
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Now, commercial workplaces normally have their own security thing.
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And a lot of churches have their own little volunteer security teams,
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they'll call them. Yeah, they'll have that.
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But, and then schools, arguably the most precious resource, our children are
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protected by like one single resource, a school resource officer.
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And I know for a fact here where I'm at, I think one school resource officer,
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SRO, covers multiple schools. So what does that mean?
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Like there is no actual security at any of the schools. that person just goes and does their rounds.
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And you can correct me if I'm wrong in that, but I'm pretty sure that's true.
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That there's only one SRO up here.
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So let's talk about some overall doctrine on how to deal with these issues.
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Department of Homeland Security and the FBI tell us, and I'm sure you guys have
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heard this, and sort of the framework is run, hide, fight.
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Right? That's the three-word sort of catchphrase, run, hide, fight.
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And that's what they tell all these people, civilians and schools and churches and everything else.
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Does that hold water? Is that correct? Should fight be the final recourse?
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Now, clearly, if you can run away, clearly, if you can run away, do.
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But especially in a situation like a school where there's possibly 500,
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600 kids and, you know, four exits, right? It's hard to run away.
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You might be able to hide and lock doors and hardened structures.
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We'll get to all that hardened structure stuff.
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But first, we're going to talk a little bit about preparation that any school,
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any church, and any workplace can sort of think about.
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And first of all, you have to acknowledge that these threats do exist.
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And we'll go over these in a little detail later. But if you're living in rainbows
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and clouds and unicorns world and you don't acknowledge that these things exist,
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you're setting yourself up for failure.
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Now, it may never happen in your church, your school, or your workplace, ever.
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But when it does, it's going to be catastrophic.
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Unless you have plans, emergency action plans, things to do if.
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And these include, you know, kind of routes. Everybody knows what the fire drills are, right?
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Schools do, or they did when I was in school, they did fire drills all the time.
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And everybody just kind of got together and walked in an orderly fashion out,
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whichever exit closest to them.
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I remember we even had like, when I was, when I was very young,
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we had like nuclear, you know, bomb plant where you had to get under your,
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you had to get under your desk and put your head between your legs.
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It was bizarre. That could have been hurricane. I want to say it was,
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I want to say it was the same for hurricane and for like a bomb.
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Put your head between your legs and what the teachers
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didn't follow up and say is kiss your ass goodbye right so there
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needs to be some kind of drill now i know it's
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nearly impossible to make 700 people do get on
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the same sheet of music i'm fully aware but it's not
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impossible it's just nearly and then
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you've got so during this preparation sort of phase here you
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got to develop some credible plans and you got to be able to test those
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plans you got to have some viable action
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uh you know you've heard to see something say something
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to stuff well you know especially kids
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they're not going to snitch right probably unless the
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kid's like a real weird oddball and and he's been targeted for for bullying
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and stuff like that anyway not for bullying but as a target for the bullies
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which i think is probably the case in a lot of cases see something say something
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now Well, how good is that?
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That needs to, you have to elaborate on that.
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And you have to show them the channels in which to go.
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Like, ideally, I suppose if a kid thought another kid had an AR-15,
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he would go to the school resource office and say, hey, I'm pretty sure this kid's got an AR-15.
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I would think. But if you only got one SRO for covering, you know,
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four or five schools, I guess you go to the principal or to any teacher, really.
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But yeah, who knows? That leads it, that lends itself to kids in a similar fashion.
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When people SWAT someone else, they call the SWAT team or police on this person's
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doing this, that, and the other, and the SWAT team shows up and you wake up,
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you know, ass naked with your flip flops on, go to the dorm and you're like,
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what, what's the problem?
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Is there human traffic going on here? No, I was swatted. Situational awareness.
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Kids, how much do kids know about situational awareness? I don't know.
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How much do churchgoers know about situational awareness?
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I don't know. Because when you're in church, you probably feel like you're in a safe space.
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So your guard is probably a little down, actually.
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Yeah. You got to have some not only, not just catchphrases, see something,
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say something, but you've got to have a viable sort of reporting SOP.
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And it's got to be easy. It's got to be user-friendly.
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I believe in scenario-based training. And I know, again, it's hard to have,
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you know, 400, 500 students doing the same scenario at the same time.
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It's probably hard to have, you know, 100 congregation of 100 doing the same thing at the same time.
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But there needs to be some kind of you have
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to test your SOPs you can't
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just write down on a piece of paper and say okay this is it it exists and it
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doesn't it doesn't exist this is a thing that I've been told all my career is
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an SOP isn't an SOP unless everyone knows it so even if you put it in a memo
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and email and send it out that doesn't mean everyone knows it you need to walk through these things.
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It's called rehearsals. Yeah, you got to go rehearse.
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So for preparation, those are the things that need to be done.
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There needs to be some kind of plans to address specific emergencies, detailed plans.
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Then there needs to be legitimate, simplistic reporting sort of method.
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Then there needs to be some testing of those plans, some scenario-based sort
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of checking them against reality, run things in real time.
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All right, and then you have the response, right, the run, hide,
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fight, which is what the FBI and the DHS tells us.
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If you can run, it's always better if you can break contact, if you can.
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Yeah, break contact, get out of there. But now you have a teacher in a class
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for, let's say it's an elementary school.
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You have a teacher in a class with 25, you know, seven-year-olds.
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And if the teacher doesn't maintain their cool, then panic is really going to
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ensue. Chaos is really going to take over.
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And then you've got all these scared kids.
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And now if you try to run with all that, Yeah, I mean, that's a major obstacle
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to safely get 25 kids, never mind, like, the whole hallway and, like,
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you know, six or eight classrooms of kids come running out in the hallway.
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So running is, yeah, it's an option, but I don't think, I don't know how practical it is, you know.
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And then, obviously, call 911. Hide.
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Secure cover spots. Well, it says cover. Does the general public know the difference
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between concealment and cover?
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Because you can hide, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to stop bullets.
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Yeah, you might be able to hide, but that doesn't mean you're going to stop the bullets.
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So what they assume is every school has some kind of secure,
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hardened spot for you to hide in.
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Now, there's been some aftermarket companies who've created these little sort
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of mobile safe rooms, you know.
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Every class kind of a fold out kind of open it up kids get in there and then
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you can lock it and it's it's meant to be like a safe room or panic room so
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i mean there's all kind of weird stuff going on but understand that if your
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school there may be some good natural hiding spots,
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maybe and it depends on how determined the active shooter is to go look and
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peek in all these spaces and we'll get to stuff like that.
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But anyway, they encourage us to run or hide in a secure spot if possible or
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barricade behind locked doors and all that and then be quiet and stay low.
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And then finally, the government says as a last resort, as a last resort,
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improvise weapons and execute aggressive disruption.
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Does that sound thorough to you? The good people listening to this podcast Improvise
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weapons And then Aggressively disrupt The shit.
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So the guy walking around the hallway with an AR-15, you get,
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I don't know, maybe your craft scissors, the ones that have the rounded tips on them.
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Is that a good improvised weapon? Nah, I guess maybe you got to go in the teacher's
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drawer for some teacher scissors, the big sharp ones.
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What other improvised weapon are you going to pull out of a school?
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I guess if it's in the gym, you could pull out some baseball bats.
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But that's a close proximity tool right there, folks. I don't think you're going
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to disrupt an assed-up 16-year-old walking down the hall with an AR-15 with
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a baseball bat. Unless you can sneak up on them, I guess.
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And this is going to lead, folks. Look, I'm going to lead into suggestions and
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answers here from my perspective.
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And then post-incident, cooperate with law enforcement. No kidding.
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Give aid to victims. No kidding. and seek out mental health for the trauma, you know, no kidding.
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Key emphasis, incidents usually only last somewhere, you know,
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five, seven minutes average.
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The incidents usually are, so soft targets are easier and they can get the job done quicker.
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If they can get into school, especially if it's an external threat,
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But if they can get in unchecked, unconfronted, then it's easy targets.
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So that's one thing.
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Yeah. Yeah. And predators normally go after soft targets.
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I think in one of the school shootings, and I can't remember, let's see,
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I think the Uvalde Elementary School or Uvalde, Texas,
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and that elementary school shooting, I think the shooter had considered going
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to another place, but there was security that was too,
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you know, just too much of a hassle to get through. So I chose a soft target.
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So if you run, yes, statistically, based on these instances,
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given the fact that instances don't last that long, running is statistically the safest way.
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And people are apt to run in a situation like that.
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Now, you guys have all heard of fight, flight, or freeze, but I'm sure a child
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or even a high school age are more apt to run than confront.
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Now, what the FBI reckons is that if you run, that prevents herding, right?
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It prevents large groups massing together.
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But I beg to differ because everything inside of a school, every hallway,
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every room, even in a big wide open gym, there's only four exits.
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So everybody bottlenecks in these places.
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The FBI says it prevents herding if you run. That's assuming you're an individual
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running away from a thing.
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That's not assuming 500 kids running away from a thing.
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And then they say that if you hide, that buys you time.
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The FBI reckons that there is a 50% or 70% survival chance based on simulations if you hide.
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Then the FBI tells us cleverly that that exploits the shooter's impatience.
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So maybe he'll just get mad because he don't have immediate targets.
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And then he just, I don't know, what, go away, I guess. I don't know.
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And then the FBI reckons that if you fight, that the pros of that is that.
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I want to use, I think, Virginia Tech shooting several years ago.
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I want to say one or two of the students ended up subduing the guy, I think.
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So when one person steps up, that usually emboldens other, especially in a friend group or something.
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Like if you're a guy and you step up and go, no, we got to take this guy out.
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You know, you're going to have a couple of homies that say, yeah, let's do it. Right.
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But again, if you're going up against firepower, that's or even a guy with a
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knife. I mean, that's that's a dangerous undertaking.
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Now, I happen I happen to lean toward that.
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But if we're going to if I'm going to push that, then what by default do I have to push also?
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Yeah, I think I think that we should have more firearms in schools, but we'll get to it.
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So this run, hide, fight thing. Yeah, I guess it's a simple,
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simplistic view. And I guess if you were able to practice those regularly,
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you might get something out of that.
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But let's talk about what the FBI reckons is risky.
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Now, they said it prevents herding, right?
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Run. But then they turn around and say, well, it risks chaos and mobility with mobility issues.
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Right. One, do you know the school enough to get to the closest exit?
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Two, what if you're a special needs kid cruising around in your little electric
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scooter that only goes 1.5 miles per hour?
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And three, mass chaos.
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You've got, yeah, mass chaos. That's all there is to it.
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If you hide, what they turn around and say is, yeah, you can hide if you have
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something to barricade with.
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But what if you get found out? Then you're sitting duck. You're stuck.
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No, obviously it's no good like in the gym. It's pretty hard.
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You know, you can go to the locker room, I guess. But other than that,
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you either got to get out. There's no place to hide in the gym,
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even if you hunker down behind the bleachers.
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Yeah. So, and then they reckon there's less than 20% chance.
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Now they do caveat this and I'll say this.
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They say fight is a very low success option.
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Less than 20% chance of surviving if you fight. But then they caveat that by
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saying, if you're unarmed.
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Because they want very desperately not to say, hey, we need guns in schools.
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They're trying desperately not to say that.
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Less than 20% chance of surviving if you're unarmed.
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Yep. So in general, all this is really, this is all reaction.
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This is all reaction to a thing.
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And it really only addresses one school shooter. Now, I'm sure,
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I guess we all remember Columbine and there was a couple of guys.
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And then they're assuming people do drills at their work or school or church or whatever.
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And then this whole run, hide, fight thing assumes the police are going to be
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there really, really quick.
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I point you back to Uvalde.
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So, yeah, I like it. It's a very governmental answer to a problem.
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It's very simplistic, run, hide, fight. It's very, very practical in terms of
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understanding, but is it effective? Yeah.
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And is it effective in real life? I don't know.
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I don't think so. That's me personally. I don't think so.
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Now, am I going to sit here and tell you, yeah, I'm a special operator,
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but I don't have experience in school shootings per se.
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But I know what skills you need to harden a structure.
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I know what skills you need to assess a threat.
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And that's 90% of the battle right there, folks.
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Assess the threat and harden your structure accordingly and then have the right
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kind of security. All right.
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So let's look at, I do a course on this, by the way.
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I do it for schools and for churches, and I've done it for both,
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to where we talk about security considerations.
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And it's in a lecture format. We don't go out and shoot each other with blue
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gun, which that is an option, but it's very difficult to replicate on a mass scale.
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Like if you have the opportunity to get, I don't know, 50 to a hundred role
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players to be students and to be teachers and to be, and everybody's able to
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wear some protective gear.
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And then you have some folks with, with UTM weapons.
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I mean, I guess you could set up some scenarios and try to replicate some,
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some scenarios, but that's a very, that'd be very difficult to replicate.
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I've seen some videos on YouTube folks with, you know, various police for,
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you know, they're doing this bizarre stuff.
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And now police response is different than than us as an organization,
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as the school organization or the church organization.
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Now, the police have a different training methodology on this from the perspective
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of a responding officer.
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Right. You're if you're in the school as a teacher or as a student or whatever.
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You're not the responding officer. And there's different things you should do.
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So, but this security considerations course I do, or lecture,
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essentially it's a lecture.
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We talk about threats like active killers.
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And then we talk about practical strategies to kind of mitigate that.
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Preparation is the utmost importance.
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You've got to objectively analyze the threat.
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Got to have plans. You got to have SOPs, simple and effective SOPs that everyone
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can learn that when the signal is given that you can execute.
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Now, I'm going to say this, folks, and I say it all the time.
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I said it when I was in combat. I say it every time I'm doing any kind of lecture like this.
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If an individual is willing to give his own life in order to take someone else's
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life, there's very little you can do to stop him. Very little.
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A suicide bomber who is willing to go blow himself up is very likely going to
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achieve, maybe not his total objective, but he's going to get someone.
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He's going to get someone.
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Now we're talking about suicide bombers, which doesn't apply necessarily.
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That's not a thing we've seen here so far with school, church type stuff.
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So what are some things that you as an organization, be it school,
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church, or business, what are some key things you got to look at?
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What is your current security posture? Do you have one?
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Yeah. Do you have security personnel?
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And if you do, what is their composition? What is their disposition?
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What are their roles and responsibilities? How trained are they to do the thing
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that they need to do should the worst case scenario happen?
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I don't know. What is your current situation? What about facility access?
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Can anyone walk in off the street? Now, if you're a commercial business,
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a lot of times, like, yeah, you have to be open to if you're a church,
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you kind of have to be open to the public.
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So is access unfettered? Is it unmonitored, right?
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Do you have unattended or unlocked external building entries and exits that,
29:06
are hidden that aren't normally used, but someone could get in or out of?
29:10
Do you have video monitoring, any
29:12
sort of video monitoring, internal and external on the property at all?
29:17
Is there a way to replay?
29:19
Can you see if an incident does happen? Do you have video going back and looking at it.
29:23
I know most churches, yeah, they video the preacher's sermons,
29:28
but they probably ain't got video anywhere else.
29:30
Maybe in the daycare or child, you know, the kid's Sunday school section.
29:36
Maybe. Do you have any sort of alert, alarm communication system at all?
29:42
Do you have any sort of way to contact police other than just 911?
29:50
Any sort of, hell, any sort of SOP for any sort of crisis?
29:55
Now, most schools have a fire drill, right? Do you have any other SOP whatsoever?
30:02
Is there any kind of chain of command for when an emergency does happen?
30:06
Do you have any kind of control measures for your students or for your personnel at all? Is there a way?
30:14
Now, I know back in the day, a lot of schools had loudspeakers.
30:17
So from the principal's office, boom, you talk to the whole school.
30:20
But even then, that didn't cover every piece of ground on that school.
30:25
So is there a way to alert people that there's some kind of situation to disseminate information?
30:32
Is there anyone inside of your little crisis management team,
30:39
if you have one, Is there anybody who is the specific person to connect to liaison,
30:47
essentially, with law enforcement and EMS?
30:50
Now, I know in a lot of schools you have the one school resource officer,
30:54
and he's that guy, right?
30:56
But what if you don't have that SRO? Is there anyone else there?
31:00
Is it the front desk lady? Is it the principal, vice principal? I don't know.
31:05
Think about these things, folks. If you work or are on staff at any of these,
31:11
do you have any of that stuff in play right now?
31:15
Okay. What threat are we even talking about? So the hot topic is always active killers.
31:23
That's the hot topic because that's the one that's so scary,
31:27
right? You're just in school, minding your own business, and boom,
31:30
bad things are happening.
31:32
So I'm going to say, and I said this earlier, we're going to categorize.
31:36
The threats. So there's internal human threat.
31:39
And I, and I, I categorize that as somebody who works there,
31:44
staff or student or congregation, somebody who goes there normally.
31:50
It does, they're not out of place by being there. You know, the janitor,
31:54
frigging, you know, the guy who delivers water or whatever, you know,
31:59
that's kind of an internal human threat.
32:01
And then there's an external human threat, you know, estranged parents, right?
32:06
You got a dad who's got a straight restraining order and he comes into the school
32:11
trying to pick up his kid.
32:13
Now most schools have a sign in sign out sort of thing.
32:17
They've kind of stepped that up a little bit.
32:22
Foolproof, especially if the kid is in cahoots with the estranged parent.
32:27
But an external human threat is somebody who's not normally there,
32:31
right? Strangers, somebody who comes in off the street.
32:34
And then we got physical space. We got internal physical space,
32:38
which is self-explanatory, inside of your building, inside of the rooms and
32:43
the buildings and the structures.
32:45
Then you got your external physical space, which is the parking lots,
32:48
playgrounds, football field, all the places that are outside, but on the property.
32:55
And that includes where all the transportation, the, the, the bus lanes,
32:59
wherever you, wherever you stack up for, you know, pick up and drop off for
33:03
car riders, all those places, those are external.
33:06
If you break it down like that, then you can, you can sort of dissect this a little bit better.
33:12
We can, and then we can figure out whether these people, well,
33:16
we can help to learn what their motives might be, but.
33:19
But situational awareness plays a big deal here when looking for early warning
33:24
signs of people who are the internal threats, right?
33:27
The kids. A lot of these shooters, these active killers that go to these schools,
33:34
they've been called out before.
33:37
They've had some kind of interaction with law enforcement before or have been
33:44
reported before and just no action was taken.
33:49
And sometimes, you know, you can, if a kid is known to have violent,
33:55
like a violent dad or abusive house, you know what I mean?
33:59
And because teachers, some teachers are on the job and they're aware of those
34:03
types of things and they pay attention to those types of things.
34:06
But that's one possible way to look at early warning signs.
34:09
But then the random, you know, these random external threats,
34:12
usually there's no real early warning, right? No real early detection.
34:17
So we're going to look at what I think the most likely course of action is and
34:23
what I think the most dangerous course of action as it relates to active killers
34:26
in your school or church.
34:30
And it changes a little bit based on location, especially with churches.
34:35
So what is the most dangerous course of action?
34:38
An unknown external threat, and we'll say male based on history,
34:44
whether it's a trans male or whatever or not.
34:48
An unknown that holds some kind of either extremist belief or has some kind
34:53
of instability, some kind of issue, psychological issue.
34:58
He plans to go into your facility and just rampage with multiple weapons and
35:08
kill as many people as possible until he is killed or commits suicide,
35:13
causing mass carnage.
35:16
That is the most dangerous course of action.
35:20
Scenario, in my opinion. And then the most likely scenario, in my opinion,
35:26
is that it is an internal,
35:28
a known, someone who goes to school or goes to the church, a known male who
35:35
possibly has some mental instability or anger issues, or is a target of bullying.
35:41
And he targets specific individuals with some sort of weapon,
35:45
and then has a plan to escape, but may or may not get caught,
35:53
may or may not commit suicide once he is confronted.
35:57
So that'll be minimal casualties, right? He targets someone specifically,
36:01
takes out those two or three people, either kills himself or just walks out
36:07
and gets picked up later.
36:09
I think that's the most likely scenario based on a whole bunch of active killer
36:14
things, not just in schools and churches, but a whole bunch.
36:18
So of those two, I think it's most likely that the person is there to target
36:24
probably specific people or specific groups of people.
36:29
There may be some political ideology there, as we saw with this last one.
36:34
So either way either way we need to be prepared for those whether it's an intern now internal is,
36:42
far more dangerous a known someone who goes to the school goes to the church
36:47
that's far more dangerous because they might be able to sneak in some kind of
36:51
weapon but if this person wants to do damage and commit suicide,
36:57
there's not much you can do to stop them once the attack is underway.
37:03
You can prevent things, and we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk
37:07
about the facility, right?
37:09
Can you get controlled access to your facility, external and internal?
37:15
I went to one high school that had an outer perimeter.
37:18
You had to go through a gate just to get to the parking lot and the gate had a guy there.
37:23
And then you had to go through a point that was monitored by, well, it was teachers.
37:27
It wasn't security folks, but you had to go into a point that was monitored by teachers.
37:33
Parking permits, you know, if you're in high school or church, have parking permit.
37:40
Parking, the last thing a church wants to think about is isolated sectional parking, right?
37:46
But if you got people who are members of the church, give them a parking permit,
37:49
they park someplace, and then you got unknowns parking all in the same place,
37:53
that kind of thing, right?
37:56
Badging for staff. And when I say badging, I mean that does the locks,
38:02
you know, the magnetic locks and things like that.
38:04
That stuff costs a lot of money, I know, but, you know, key cards and things
38:08
like that. But having manned points, manned entry points, external and internal,
38:13
and then having alarms at those manned points.
38:16
Now, I know this seems like, Edgar, we don't want our schools and churches to
38:20
look like a federal lockdown. I concur.
38:23
These things can be done in a low-vis way.
38:27
You don't have to put everybody in, like, jackboots and, you know,
38:31
black uniforms, right? You don't have to do that.
38:35
But technical monitoring is what I'm saying.
38:37
Now, technical monitoring only goes so far. People, the people who are doing
38:41
the monitoring of the technical stuff, they have to be vigilant for sure.
38:45
But that's all technical stuff, right? I think there should be video.
38:51
Anything that the government's got its hands on, public schools,
38:55
police, hospitals, anything that the government has its hands on,
39:00
I believe should be videoed. Yeah.
39:03
And I said this before about schools. I think teachers, I think a camera in
39:10
every classroom will keep the teachers honest and keep the students honest. Yep. I think so.
39:16
That may, we can argue the nuances of that another time.
39:20
Anyway, controlled access folks. That's what I'm getting at.
39:23
Controlled access, whatever level that you want, you think you need,
39:27
you know, some places got metal detectors.
39:29
Some place has got some big old burly SRO out there with a wand,
39:33
wand and everybody, which is not that efficient, but you know, whatever.
39:38
But more importantly, hardening the target, physically hardening the target.
39:42
Now, yeah, again, this costs money. That's a point we'll talk about.
39:46
Ballistic glass, steel doors, things like that.
39:51
Now look, I'm going to throw some, some, some silly stuff out here but simple
39:56
techniques like deception if you put signs up on all the entries and exits of
40:04
your school that says warning staff are armed okay.
40:10
Hey, it's a deterrent. It may work. It may not. But it might cost someone a second thought.
40:18
Yeah. So deception is a thing. I wouldn't depend on it, but why not?
40:25
All right, let's talk about arming teachers for a minute. I'm on board with
40:28
arming teachers, but there's a lot of stuff that goes along with that.
40:33
A lot of stuff that goes along with that. arming teachers and staff at schools
40:36
and in churches, folks, and in churches, and even at your workplace,
40:41
there's a lot of stuff that goes along with it.
40:44
You got to have some kind of criteria. There has to be some standard.
40:48
People who have guns need to have a standard of safety and training.
40:54
Having that tool inside of a school with an incompetent person is just as dangerous
41:02
This is a God dang active killer.
41:06
Security teams, designated security teams, whether it's, excuse me,
41:12
whether it's your own employees and
41:15
that's a residual duty or whether you specifically hire security people.
41:21
But whoever's in charge of that team has to, they have to, they have to one,
41:26
have authority to do it and they have to be responsible people.
41:28
Then they have to be vetted. They have to be trained. then you have to clearly
41:32
delineate roles and responsibilities. And that's a lot of stuff people don't
41:35
want to undertake that stuff.
41:37
And what about those people carrying guns? Well, they probably need a little
41:41
bit of medical training too.
41:42
I think everybody should have a little bit of medical training regardless.
41:46
That way, even if your staff is unarmed, at least have some daggum first aid kits on hand.
41:53
I'd say probably in every classroom to include tourniquets and things like that, but other stuff.
42:00
So you got to have a bare minimum level of training just to arm personnel.
42:04
Now, again, I advocate that, but I don't advocate it lightly.
42:10
You know, you got to have some kind of firearms qualification.
42:13
And I'm not talking about some bullcrap police qualification.
42:16
I'm not talking about some bullcrap sheriff comes out, you shoot at a giant
42:21
silhouette at 10 yards and then call it good.
42:25
I'm talking about a legitimate skills-based qualification. Then you've got to
42:30
have some kind of mindset development.
42:32
Now, technical shooting is technical shooting.
42:36
But first of all, if you're going to arm a teacher, that teacher's got to agree to that, right?
42:41
That teacher's got to—you're going to have a lot of teachers that will dissent,
42:44
folks. They are not comfortable.
42:47
Some teachers, if you allow firearms in school, there's some teachers that'll quit.
42:52
We all know that the educational system in general has a lot of liberal people
42:57
in it. And they're not right, wrong, or otherwise for not liking that, I guess.
43:05
Again, violence is never the answer until it's the only answer.
43:08
So now you've got to have teachers and staff who are willing to be armed,
43:13
and then you have to get them trained up to a level.
43:18
And then they have to be, so let's say they have trained and they shoot pretty
43:22
well and they carry a gun.
43:24
Now can they function under violence?
43:27
You know what I mean? Are they cut out for that? You know, you don't go into
43:33
education because you're an action guy.
43:36
You go into education because you like academics and you like being around kids
43:41
and teaching people how to do things, you know, intellectually.
43:46
And then there's got to be some follow-on training. You can't just get the initial
43:49
training and call it good.
43:51
It's an ongoing thing, folks. It's an ongoing thing. And then your school,
43:55
like, and then we got to have insurance for that.
43:58
Now, firearms ranges has insurance all over the place, right?
44:00
But now you're dealing with teachers who, well, providing you have a legitimate
44:06
training program, that'll mitigate some of the insurance.
44:10
But you're talking about, now, I'm sure insuring schools is probably pretty steep anyway.
44:15
But there's probably got to be insurance that covers that.
44:18
And then what about those teachers that do dissent? They don't want to be armed.
44:23
Do they have a role? Do they have a role and responsibility when it comes to
44:27
sort of what I call special teams?
44:33
On to medical emergencies? Can they be the ones who relay information,
44:38
communicate with the principal's officer, the sheriff's department, things like that.
44:44
You got to have somebody for crowd control. You got to, you got to manage the children.
44:48
And I would say, and I'm, in my experience, middle school is the most chaotic
44:54
of all the levels, right?
44:56
High school, you got a bunch of kids who think they're grown, so they'll do whatever.
45:01
Elementary school, yeah, they're wild kids, but you know, they'll kind of do
45:04
whatever the group does.
45:05
Middle schoolers, oh my God, madness, absolute chaos.
45:10
You got to have somebody to do crowd control and to execute whatever the SOP is with those children.
45:17
So think about those things. And we're just, these are wavetop things, folks.
45:23
There's so many nuances to all these. What are some other variables?
45:26
What we're talking them out here as active killers, but there's some stuff beyond that, right?
45:34
One, cost analysis. Nobody, to include me especially, don't want my taxes raised.
45:39
And a school is, you know, where's the funding going to come from for that?
45:45
Hardening your structure can be a very expensive endeavor. Hiring trained security
45:50
personnel can be a very expensive endeavor.
45:53
So you got to have some, you know, sources, some budget sources,
45:59
I'd say, yeah, without raising taxes.
46:02
And you got to have budget priorities.
46:04
Is security a priority for you? If it's not, just admit that it's not.
46:09
Don't talk bull crap and then say, yes, security is our highest priority when it's not.
46:18
And then you got risk where, you know, like I said, there's going to be some
46:21
people who are not on board with that, armed teachers or armed school staff
46:26
or church staff, is there less lethal options that we could use and train on?
46:33
Always, I said dissenting staff, right? Somebody who's a, say they're just a
46:38
hard left liberal, they absolutely ain't going to stand for.
46:41
Well, what about parents?
46:42
Do parents just have to suck on it if they disagree with that?
46:45
I mean, they can go vote on it, I guess.
46:48
Yeah. And then finally, we got the reality of violence.
46:54
You know, that's things just got to be dealt with. Now, some schools react to that.
46:59
You know, they hear it on the news. Oh, we're offering counseling and we're offering this and that.
47:03
But there's a there's a hardcore psychological effect for if you got your 23
47:08
year old fresh out of college art teacher who has to blast some 17 year old kid.
47:16
You know, there's going to be some emotional scars there. All right.
47:20
So how are we going to move forward from this? You got to you got to assess
47:24
the threats one correctly. Right. The analysis of the threats.
47:30
What's reality, what's most likely, what's most dangerous.
47:34
You got to assess your priorities because, you know, on risk,
47:38
on, on composite risk management stuff, right?
47:41
You've got the likelihood of a thing happening, and then you've got the,
47:45
the severity of a thing happening.
47:48
So if it's a thing that if it happens, it's going to be catastrophic.
47:53
You know, there's a whole lot of things, even though it might,
47:56
the likelihood of it happened is very low, it's still a very high.
48:02
Very high, high risk outcome. So you still have to mitigate that.
48:08
Now, if there's a less, you know, if it's more likely to happen,
48:11
but then the, the severity of it is low, like, oh yeah.
48:16
We had a threat come in here and he smacked a couple of kids around in the mouth,
48:21
told them they were stupid and then ran out the door.
48:24
Yeah. I mean, I get it. Nobody wants their kid to get hit, but that's not a
48:28
severe outcome. Kid just got smacked.
48:30
I oversimplified that to death. But, you know, if it's very likely to happen,
48:36
even though it's a low severity outcome, but it's very likely to happen,
48:40
you still have to mitigate. You still have to do things to prevent it.
48:44
So as you move forward and you're assessing your place of work or your place
48:48
of worship or your school, consider those things. Think about some unconventional methods.
48:53
What are some unconventional ways to strengthen security without spinning an
49:00
arm and a leg or having to go jump through hoops and coddle parents'
49:05
balls because they don't want any crazy stuff.
49:09
Now, I'd argue that most parents would welcome more stringent security measures
49:13
if they thought you were competent to execute those measures.
49:18
Well, you can certainly develop and disseminate SOPs even with what you've got, right?
49:24
You can certainly conduct rehearsals even with just what you've got now.
49:28
Now, you could get an outside advisor like myself or many others to come in
49:35
and do an assessment for a very reasonable cost, folks, and to come in and do
49:41
an assessment and go, yeah,
49:42
here's where you could use work. Here's where it's most vulnerable.
49:45
Here's where it's most safe and et cetera, et cetera.
49:50
Doing a threat analysis, any Green Beret out there can do a threat analysis for him.
49:56
And vulnerability assessment on your hard structure or just the area in general,
50:02
because you still need to know what's going on around you.
50:05
And let me tell you, I said I'd go back to that because it changes for churches, right?
50:10
If your church is out in the country and you're in a residential area and there's
50:16
a country club right down the road, what's the most likely threat?
50:22
Possibly, you know, a angry, dejected sort of husband, divorced, you know, whatever.
50:28
And he thinks his wife and the wife's going to church to try to,
50:32
you know, connect with Jesus and just get some help for her emotional.
50:36
And then the husband's abusive and alcoholic and he busts up in there Sunday
50:40
morning, you know, looking for his wife and he thinks the preacher's banging
50:45
his wife and all kinds of stuff.
50:46
And then you got a church that's, let's say, on the low end of town and you
50:51
got a homeless shelter, you know, one block down and you got dudes selling crack
50:56
one block back and this and that and the other.
50:59
Well, I need crack anymore, I guess. I don't know what's the hot one today.
51:03
Heroin, I guess, or meth, I guess.
51:09
Now, what's the most likely threat? Is it that husband?
51:12
Yeah, maybe. but also you now you got
51:15
dudes who are any any stage of of
51:18
drug-induced or you got homeless guys who are in any
51:21
any stage of uh desperation so they might come in and pose a threat now if you're
51:30
a church you should welcome them in for sure but again you have to still have
51:34
someone in that church a security guy or whoever the security to assess like is this guy a threat,
51:41
And then you got, you know, be the first guy to meet this, this homeless guy
51:45
and be like, Hey, what's, what's up, bro? What, you know?
51:49
There doesn't have to be any subterfuge. Hey, bro, you got any weapons or drugs
51:53
on you? Because if you do, you can't come in.
51:55
We're happy to see you, but you got to get rid of that stuff first.
51:58
You see what I mean? There's ways to do things.
52:03
Now, let's talk about a couple spots here.
52:08
In the Appalachee High School shooting here in Georgia, over in Winder last
52:13
year, that was ended when the SRO confronted the shooter and the kid immediately gave up.
52:22
So having an SRO on hand on site was critical there.
52:28
One case that the Secret Service did an analysis on, an assistant principal,
52:34
there was a 16-year-old that was stabbing classmates and staff members on a stabbing spree.
52:42
And that's why I call it active killer and not active shooter, right?
52:46
The 16-year-old went on a stabbing spree and that assistant principal tackled that joker.
52:50
And that ended the incident and mitigated more, you know, more damage.
52:58
So the value there, yeah, there wasn't a security team, but there's a vice principal
53:03
there with enough balls to intervene.
53:06
Now just think about that. The teacher had enough ball or the principal had
53:10
enough balls to intervene.
53:11
And that was arguably a very selfless act, right? That guy could have said,
53:16
no, man, I don't want to get stabbed.
53:17
Called 911 and waited for some cops to show up. Instead, he tackled this kid.
53:25
So everybody, every structure, every church, every school, you got to do threat assessments.
53:30
You got to know what's the possibilities?
53:33
What's the likelihoods?
53:35
What's the most dangerous? Yeah.
53:38
Another study that the Secret Service looked at, or they studied,
53:41
a case that they studied, and there was a student who was acting very belligerent
53:46
and threatening on a school bus, and he got reported by multiple kids.
53:51
And then that led to a bunch of interviews and home checks and this and that
53:57
and the other, and then daily monitoring by the school staff.
54:01
So there was early warning.
54:03
Kids in the see something say
54:06
something who did and then that prompted now
54:09
i'm i'm never for a government intervention and
54:13
anything personally however but because of those kids saw something said something
54:19
then the teachers they ended up doing interviews so they it warranted them ensuring
54:25
that this kid had no access to weapons and so this kid nothing ever happened,
54:32
Now, how can you, would something have happened?
54:34
Who knows? This kid said that it would.
54:40
And no matter what kind of mental illness you're dealing with,
54:43
you have to take people who threat, who give threats out, you have to take them at face value.
54:48
And then there's, okay, the RAN Research Institute, they did a thing.
54:54
Bystander intervention, right? When people step up and say something,
54:59
and then they, as a group, sort of do this unspoken, hey, let's stop this guy, let's do it, boom.
55:07
That has, of the research done in 12 different incidences, that has been a thing.
55:13
And it stopped the shooter. And they were able to tackle, disarm the shooter.
55:20
So what does that put emphasis on?
55:23
A willingness, right, to be selfless and to be bold and to have a mindset that,
55:30
yeah, I'm going to, yes, you may get shot, but you may also stop 30 people from getting shot, right?
55:40
Well, we've lost that in recent years in our society where, you know,
55:45
people want to not want to be a hero, but do heroic things to protect others.
55:51
So in all these things we just talked about, controlled access could have mitigated things.
55:56
Trained personnel, armed personnel could have certainly mitigated.
56:01
And then a proactive, folks, proactive assessment of realistic threats.
56:09
All right. That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at, folks. Proactive assessment of realistic threats.
56:16
Now I'm going to give you some numbers here and you can take them how you want.
56:20
There's a, the DOJ has a national crime victimization survey.
56:25
And in that survey, up to potentially as estimates of up to 120,000 defensive gun uses per year,
56:34
where people use a gun to stop further violence or deter a violent crime.
56:41
Now that's accounts for people who reported the incidents, not for anyone who didn't.
56:48
Now I can tell you now, I've drawn my gun three times as a civilian and I've
56:53
never had to, well, I never had to shoot anyone, thank God, but I never reported it.
56:59
There's a broader survey out there that estimates somewhere up to 2.5 million
57:06
defensive firearm uses of firearms to deter violent crime.
57:14
Society is a polite society, good people. I carry my gun all day, every day, everywhere.
57:19
I think you should too, because you never know. Violence is random.
57:24
You can't always predict it.
57:25
But if it happens in front of you, you can, good chance you can stop it.
57:30
All right. Look, folks, preparation, save life.
57:35
Honest assessment, objective assessment
57:38
of your security posture as an individual or as an organization,
57:43
adapt your SOPs and your strategies and your behavior accordingly.
57:51
Train.
57:53
Now, firearms training is a very technical skill, folks.
57:56
Just isolate the skill. Train to be a fast and accurate shooter.
58:01
And then you can look at scenarios and you can do your mindset said in a different
58:06
sort of environment, right? Thinking about that stuff.
58:11
But it's critical that the skill is there if you're going to be armed.
58:15
And I said it earlier, SOP is not SOP unless everybody knows it.
58:19
So if you had some kind of weird experience, now look, I know I'm always asking for feedback.
58:24
If you have had some kind of violent, near violent experience,
58:29
some active shooter situation or some knife situation or where you got robbed
58:34
and things like that, send it, share.
58:38
I would love to hear a real, real-time example.
58:42
So far, there's probably been eight, I don't know, maybe even 12 shootings this
58:46
year, school shootings that had injuries or death.
58:52
There's other surveys out there that says there's potentially up to 146 school
58:58
gun violence I don't recognize gun violence, folks. Violence is violence.
59:03
I can stab you in the jugular with an ink pen and you're going to die just the same, right?
59:09
Everybody wants to blame a gun. It's not. It's a behavioral issue.
59:14
Or as a behavioral issue, we need to call out psychological issues, mental issues.
59:23
We need to call them out for what they are, folks.
59:27
Call them out for what they are and stop glossing over mental issues.
59:32
Because it's not a gun problem. It's certainly 100% a mental issue.
59:40
I hope you didn't just hear that outro music. Once again, I forgot to mute it.
59:44
It's a, there's mental issues out there. There's anger issues.
59:48
There's inability to function in a normal life.
59:52
I don't, whatever it's from, if, if they're being sexually abused at home,
59:57
if they're being indoctrinated by some activist factions, if,
1:00:06
if, if their dog just got run over and their girlfriend left them for their
1:00:10
best friend, if whatever the reason.
1:00:14
If they're mad because nobody recognizes their pronouns, it doesn't matter why
1:00:20
you do it. There's some issue there.
1:00:22
Even when I was a young guy, a violent, you know, fighting, bar fighting all
1:00:26
the time, there was a deeper issue.
1:00:29
You don't go out and drink and bar fight without all the time,
1:00:33
without there being a deeper issue there.
1:00:36
And mine was that I had a chip on my shoulder, right? Cause I was very,
1:00:41
you know, you're not better than me. Fuck you. Let's fight.
1:00:44
I had that problem for a long time. There was a deeper issue there, folks.
1:00:48
So we got to be able to recognize red flags and early warnings.
1:00:52
And that doesn't mean red flag laws, ladies and gentlemen.
1:00:55
I mean, red flags and behavior and things that people relay verbally, verbally.
1:01:03
Language things like that things yeah we've got to be able to start seeing the red flags,
1:01:09
so good people that yeah i felt
1:01:13
compelled to do this one i didn't i didn't
1:01:16
expand on these shootings a lot in great detail because i didn't want to do
1:01:20
that one i don't want to besmirch the dead by talking flippantly about them
1:01:26
and i don't want to lionize the shooters and not that any of you out there listening
1:01:31
are extremists in any way.
1:01:34
I imagine my listeners are pretty sane humans. I certainly hope and think that.
1:01:39
But if you're at a church, if you're at a school, as a staff,
1:01:46
you need to start having a serious thought about security.
1:01:50
You need to have a serious thought and start assessing what if and get somebody who's credible.
1:01:58
Now, look, I rip on cops all the time, but there's plenty of smart cops out there. Plenty of them.
1:02:03
Get a cop. If you don't want to pay an actual professional to come out,
1:02:08
get a cop to come out and do a once over on your school.
1:02:11
Your SRO may or may not have the skill set that he needs to do that.
1:02:16
And then it's easy to look at a problem and go, oh yeah, we can't afford it. And then disregard it.
1:02:21
What you need to do is look at a problem. And if you can't afford it,
1:02:24
go, okay, well, how can we mitigate?
1:02:27
How can we mitigate on the cheap. If it's got to be that way, it's got to be that way.
1:02:32
Think about it. The safety of your children is at stake. Your safety is at stake.
1:02:39
Easy for a school shooter to come in there, shoot a bunch of people up.
1:02:44
The SRO shoots them or the shooter commits suicide.
1:02:48
Then everybody says, oh my God, the gun.
1:02:51
And then the problem never gets answered. Or there's a knee jerk reaction.
1:02:56
And now your school gets like all the, then through all these magic funds that
1:03:01
appear from various factions.
1:03:04
Now your school looks like a frigging county jail with the entry protocol and all this and that.
1:03:11
So if you get ahead of it and you prepare for it and you objectively analyze
1:03:17
the threat, then you can mitigate.
1:03:21
You can mitigate the damage. You can save lives. You can save more lives.
1:03:28
Reach out to me, folks. I'm happy to go
1:03:31
deeper into this with anyone who calls me or writes
1:03:34
check us out at ospreyshooting solutions.com
1:03:38
on friday saturday we have a wild card day on monday labor day we have a action
1:03:48
pistol match let's see check us out at twoteamguys.com december 567 we have
1:03:55
the three-day Land Navigation Challenge.
1:03:57
Well, it's a course and challenge.
1:04:00
Or better said, it's a challenging course. 5, 6, 7 December.
1:04:05
We got slots open for that.
1:04:07
And I've put that on the website, by the way. You can sign up for that on the website now.
1:04:13
Let's see. The Junto Podcast. Thank you for listening. Please continue to listen.
1:04:18
I'm always looking for your feedback. I would like to do topics that people
1:04:24
are interested in hearing about for sure.
1:04:26
Someone reached out to me and said that I should think about doing a active killer episode.
1:04:31
And so this last, this thing up in Minnesota kind of prompted that.
1:04:36
I was going to sit on this one for a while, but yeah, preparation folks,
1:04:42
SOPs, legitimate, legitimate assessment of the potential threats out there and
1:04:49
how can you mitigate them.
1:04:51
All right, folks, I appreciate you. You guys be safe. Be good to each other.
1:04:56
Treat each other with good manners.
1:05:00
Music.