Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / CHARLIE KIRK DEAD AT 31: SUSPECT PHOTO RELEASED, WEAPON FOUND - THE FORENSICS

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CHARLIE KIRK DEAD AT 31: SUSPECT PHOTO RELEASED, WEAPON FOUND - THE FORENSICS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charlie Kirk dead at thirty
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: one tonight, the massive manhunt for the assassin who guns
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: down a father of two, two botched arrests so far.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk has been shot at Utah University.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: All witnesses are reporting that all they heard was a
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: single shot that was fired.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: He's a young man, He's thirty two years old. Charlie
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Kirk was shot at a rally.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Dear Lord in Heaven.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Kirk targeted, we believe because of his beliefs, gunned down
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: by a sniper, a sharpshooter, an assassin surrounded by teens
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and college students.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: Why and who? Thank you for being with us?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: In the wake, the assassin leaves behind a grieving widow,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: his wife, and two little children who will grow up
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: without daddy.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Why? Why? Because you disagree with what he says. You
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: don't have to agree with what he says. This is America.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Nobody agrees with anything anybody says. Yet he got the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: death penalty because you disagree. You know what Kirk would
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: say to people? Hey, all of you out there that
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: disagree with me. I want you at the front of
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: the line because I'm going to try to convince you you're wrong.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: I don't want you to quiet yourselves. I want you
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: at the front of the line. I want to hear
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: what you have to say. But no to you. The assassin,
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: he had to die again.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I Nancy Grayson is his crime stories. I want to
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us on this very very
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: dark night.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Listen, do you know how many transgender Americans have masshooters
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: over the last ten years?
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Too many?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Fine?
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: Okay, now By's long right. I'm gonna give you any
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: of his credit.
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: Do you know how many masshooters there have been in
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: America over the last ten years?
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Accounting or not?
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Comic gang violence.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Chaos on the Utah Valley University campus has thousands of
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: students and locals run from Kirk's booth screaming. Kirk's security
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: team rushes into action, putting pressure on Kirk's wound and
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: escorting him to awaiting suv to take him to the hospital.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: You saw originally is from at Beanie Johnson on X
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: and you can hear it's not Kirk asking about how
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: ten years. It's a student asking that question. You don't
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: have to agree with the student. You may violently disagree
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: with the student. Kirk was taken out and we will
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: find the shooter and he will face the death penalty,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: mark my words. In the last hours, law enforcement has
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: released a facial shot of the perp. I want you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to look at it. We can learn a lot. There
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: he is walking. We've also got a shot more head on,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: but look there, you go much much better.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: That is him going up the stairwell.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: He is wearing jeans, a baseball cat black in collar.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: He's wearing tennis shoes and we know he's left behind
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: a foot impression. By the time we see him, he
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: looks as if he is clad all in black.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: Maid.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: This is him making his way up the steps. What
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: can we learn? We already knew that it was released.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: He was college age. Here he is clean shaven, college
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: age man. Do you really think your sunglasses are going
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: to trick l e, the fads, the locals, the works,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: good luck and a couple of days they're going to
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: know where you bought those sunglasses and what you signed
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: on the credit card slip what can.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: We learn about this guy?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: White, male, college age, slight in build.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: Joining me right now.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Forensics expert and Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Joseph
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Joe.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Scott, I can glean a lot. Let's see the picture again.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: I want everybody to see this. There is currently a
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: one hundred.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Thousand dollars reward on this guy. This guy, Okay, Joe Scott.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: It looks like he drove away from mommy and Daddy's
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: house in the suburbs and he decided to shoot somebody dead.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Does he actually have his wallet in his front right pocket?
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I see a mark on his jeans that tells me
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that's how he usually carries it. In a moment, I'm
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: going to figure out what kind of tennishoes he's wearing.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But you see the American fly with a gun on it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I'm learning so much right now. Okay, what do you see,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott?
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I see that he has unngloved hands, Nancy, and
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: it looks like in the other shot, it looks like
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: he may be making an effort to grab hold of
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: that rail. Guess what if you do that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: With his forearm? Though? Look, look well, well, yeah, but.
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  Speaker 3: How do we know How do we know that he
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: didn't touch any of the surfaces along the way Lacart's principle,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: every contact leaves a trace. You cannot be this perfect,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: all right, So up there, there's going to be information
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: that will tie him back. I think biological information. We
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: already have evidence that there may in fact have been
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: a palm print left behind. You had mentioned a footprint.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And also if the reports are true and we're hearing
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: about this weapon that may have been recovered, this is
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: going to be a specific tie back to him, Nancy,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: just based upon the process of purchasing one serial number
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: that's on here, any kind of add ons that may
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: be found on this weapon, I'm thinking, like scopes and
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: oh boy, the ammunition we've got from what they are saying,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: we have a spent round that's still chambered. Because this
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: weapon is a bolt action, that means you have to
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: actuate the bolt itself, lift it up, pull it back,
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: that ejects it. This is not a semi automatic weapon,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: and then you force another round. In Nancy, he never
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: ejected the round, according to what FBI sources are saying.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: And there are still three other live rounds in the
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: internal magazine of this weapon, and all of them are
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: going to have little bits that are going to be
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: offered up relative to connectivity back to this potent, this
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: person potentially.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Mack joining us investigated reporter crime
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: stories on the case from the very moment it happened.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Dave matt what happened.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk is on campus Nancy to do one of
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: his events where he speaks to students and talks about
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  Speaker 2: all things.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, everything's on the table.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And in the moments before you right before you see
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: him in the ten there, right before that, he was
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: actually throwing hats to the crowd. You got about three
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: thousand people there. He's throwing hats and talking to people.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And before he actually was going to give his speech,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: he actually opened up microphones for young people to come
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to the front and start and ask questions.
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  Speaker 4: It was kind of a warm up.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And he was in the about a minute minute fifteen
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: seconds into actually sitting where he's right there when the
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: shot hit And because everybody's got a phone, this was
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: immediately uploaded now and see people from everywhere could see
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: there was a shot that hit him in the neck.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Now you see everybody scrambling at first. Well that didn't
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: last but for a minute, because people realize, wait a minute,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I only heard one shot and then everything claim.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the way you got to me drinking from the
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: higher fire hygien. It's too much, too fast.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I want to take every single fact as it happens.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Joining me and all Star Pound makes sense of what
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: we know right now. The massive manhunt is on after
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: two botched FBI arrests. Hold on, you know what, I
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: want to clarify that I wouldn't call them botched. I
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: would not call them botched.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Joining me.
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  Speaker 1: Katherine Schweit, creator of the FBI's Active Shooter Program, former
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Chicago prosecutor, career GBI special agent, author Stop the Killing,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: How to End the mass shooting Crisis, and more.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: Catherine.
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  Speaker 1: People are saying botched FBI ras that's not correct. They
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: arrested persons of interest, they questioned them, and upon questioning them,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: they release them. What does everybody want them to do?
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Not take the persons of interest into custody?
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: I mean that there, it was not botched.
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: I agree with you. I mean I don't think that's
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: the right word. We want to be proceed with the
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: best and most cautious way that we can. We want
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: law enforcement to not let one person walk away from
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: that area until we are confident that person is not
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: the triggerman. It's very important that you take the time
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: to go through somebody's background, spend the time with them,
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  Speaker 6: put them under a little pressure, see whether or not
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: this is the person that you need to keep.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: On listen, give me you by the sounds fan report
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: as one and it is though that was not our
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: knowing where the shooter went and as the.
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: Advice giving you and orm has had an ask your
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: shooter at as Charlie Kirk event.
• 9:50
  Speaker 7: We're getting several calls. We're trying to get more information,
• 9:55
  Speaker 7: so I'm not sure yet.
• 9:56
  Speaker 8: We're just trying to get seeing.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: This that way.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: What you were hearing is the police scanner immediately after
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the shooting, and what we are doing tonight is picking
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: through the clues left behind and trying to determine.
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  Speaker 4: What we know happened.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back to Dave mac
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: these two botched, as it's being said arrests. I agree
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: with Catherine Schweid to creator FBI Active Shooter program. They
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: were not bossed, explain exactly what happened, Dave.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: As this was an evolving story. Right off the bat.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Police actually had a man about in his mid fifties,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: looks like bald head, wearing glasses, blue short pants, and
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: he was immediately talking to police and they actually cuffed
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: him and had him on the ground. So again in
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: this world where everything has to be published for everything,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: people immediately said they have the shooter arrested, and they
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: had pictures of this guy. I think his name's George Zenn. Well,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: George Zenn actually was being confrontational with police, but he's
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: not the shooter, and so all those pictures that were
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: around the world showed it innocent a man who was
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: not the shooter.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the guy Zen said that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: he did it. He started yelling.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: That he would do it again, but the reality is he.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Didn't have a gun, and also in those tight quarters
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: with thousands of people, who knows what he was saying,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: but he had to be taken into custody. At this hour,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: we're learning a lot. Let's see the video of the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: person on top of a roof scrambling away straight out
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to former Army sharp shooter sniper CoA Lormer.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: CoA, thank you for being with us.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I'd like you to take a look, if you can
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: from your monitor of what we have seen. A dark
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: clad figure is above the Sparks Automotive building.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: That's just one of the shots.
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  Speaker 1: We have of the And I'll just go ahead and
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: say him because statistically this is a man, observe CoA.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: He is in dark clothing, clad all in dark. He
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: dressed up for the event. This was an event which
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get into with our other guests later,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that had been.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: Planned for weeks and months.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: There he is right there, there he is, and he
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: actually jumped off the building. Why is it significant that
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: we know this event had been planned for some time
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: because anybody following Kirk would know exactly where he was
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: going to be. And CoA Lorimore, he was in the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: most vulnerable position at the bottom of a pit, basically
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: in a fish bowl with little security. But for your purposes, CoA,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I want you to explain to me how you can
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: get a shot. We've been told this is about two
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: hundred yards away for where Charlie Kirk was speaking.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: How do you do that?
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: So, Nancy, you would want to use a high power
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: rifle like I have right here.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: This is a both asking rifle used for precision shooting.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: It has a high power scope to magnify your target
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: and keeps your target very clear. This would also be
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: someone that has experienced shooting or has been trained. You
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: take anybody off the street, they're not going to be
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: able to make a shot like this.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: How unusual is it for let's just say, someone of
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: your caliber, a sharp shooter, a sniper trained specifically to
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: be a sniper. How rare is it to get off
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the shot two hundred yards? Is that normal for an
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: army sniper or is that unique for an army sniper?
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: It's very normal. I think the minimum distance of our
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: qualifications starts at three hundred yards and goes out to
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: one thousand.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: That was not what I was expecting you to say.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be rare. But you're saying,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: for an army sniper of your caliber, a two hundred
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: yard shot, eh?
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Is that what you're saying? Yes? I don't like that.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: You know why I don't like that because I thought
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: it would be more rare for somebody to pull off
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a shot like that Cole or more. But because it's
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: not rare that widens my pool of suspects. Do you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying? Yes, CoA all right, two hundred
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: yard shot. Don't you have to prepare for that? I mean,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I to believe this is the first time this guy
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: climbed to the top of Sparks Automotive and laid there
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: and tried to get the shot. I think he had
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to have gone up there before to a sniper's nest
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: and prepare. He had to have been up there to
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: see where they were putting the tent. He had to
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: be up there beforehand. My point is surveillance video and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: who was on the grounds prior to the shoe could
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: reveal who is the shooter. Now, CO explain to me
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: what you have to do to prepare to pull off
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a shot like that.
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: Well, the shot isn't just out of luck. The shooter
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: obviously had prior training. He also had to conduct a
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: reconnaissance operation see where he was shooting right where Charlie
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: was going to be at. This obviously was planned. His
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: exit plan was also planned. So this guy didn't get lucky.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: It took some very intense planning.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Which leads me to CO, don't move Dan Murphy joining me.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Former NYPD detective sergeant Joint Terrorism task former chief security
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: officer at US Bank Corps, and co host of gold Shields. Dan,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us way in on who
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: is this guy tonight? A man hunt for the assassin?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: After two arrests already, let me just say catch and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: releases of suspicious persons.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: They were not deemed to be the shooter.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: At the end of questioning, there's the shooter, there's the shooter.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: What about it? Dan Murphy? Who is this guy?
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: This person knows his way around the campus, and this
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: person absolutely went up and did reconnaissance on top of
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: that roof. This person also knows where the tent that
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: Charlie would be speaking under would be positioned, and as
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: a result, positioned themselves properly. I have seen in previous
• 16:22
  Speaker 7: cases where people have brought duffel bags filled with goods.
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: This rifle may have been up on that roof already
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: before he walked on campus that day. This person did
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: their planning.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: It's bringing to mind Luigi Mangioni, who planned for weeks
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks to gun down the CEO of
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the healthcare industry. I want to follow up with what
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Dan Murphy said. Dan, so you believe he had scoped
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: out pun he had scoped out the scene before he
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: knew where the tent was going to be. And what
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: were you saying about a Duffel bag In the past, I.
• 16:54
  Speaker 7: Have seen duffel bags brought up and left on rooftops
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: under ace, trac vents, etc. So that way the day
• 17:01
  Speaker 7: of the incident, they can walk up there nice and easy, unnoticed.
• 17:05
  Speaker 7: They're not carrying a bag. In other words, it's completely staged.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Nancy, so everything would have been there. Hold on, I
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: think I hear Catherine Schweit jumping in.
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: Go ahead, Catherine, you know, I just wanted to add
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: concurring with what Dan just said. You know, when the
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: individual shot at the President Trump in Pennsylvania, he was
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: a reconnaissance on the site three.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: Times the day of.
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: Just the day of, he graveled more than a half
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: an hour to the site. So it's absolutely planned event,
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: including the reconnaissance.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Totally agree with him and Catherine CoA. Dan, that's so important,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and this is why.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: Because he may have.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Left a trail on the prep sessions when he was
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: going up there was he con on surveillance video did
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: he park in a parking day where he had to
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: go in and.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: Out where there are cameras? Who is this guy? We're
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: being told at this hour it is a young male.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: How do they know that?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know how they know that, but that is
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: the thinking tonight. Back to Cole Laura Moore joining us
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: former army sniper who put in literally thousands of hours
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: to become a sharpshooter.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: You said, it's not just look but what about this?
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Would for instance, an army sniper shoot into a crowd
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: of civilians, You had to be.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: Very planning calculated right just to hit Charlie and not
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: to shoot any other armed civilians who's obviously training at
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: a range prior to And if you look at the
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: range logs, that's probably a telltale sign off who was there?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: CoA brilliant, brilliant You know how a lot of sharpshooters
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: have been brought down by.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: Doing just what you just.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Said, looking at every range, even remote ones within a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: twenty five mile radius to find out who has been
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: practiced to saying, CoA, you're dead on. You know this
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: guy practiced and practiced and practiced long range shooting.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: How does that work CoA.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: You practice laundry shooting by shooting different environment types, taking
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: the wind into account. You just have to have time
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: and a lot of rounds downrange.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I'm also wondering what we know at this hour. To
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, what can you tell
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: me about the discovery of the murder weapon?
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Directly behind that building, Nancy is a parking area that's
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: open to everybody, and adjacent to that is a wooded area.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: That's where they found the bolt action rifle in the
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: tree area.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: What do you mean the bolt action rifle in the
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: in the tree area?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Is creating the way to say, no, it was on
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: the ground, But I'm starting to say that it wasn't
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: like on cement in a bag sitting up for everybody.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: It was actually placed in an area where it wasn't
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: sitting out in the open, but they were able to find.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: It quickly enough.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I say bolt action because that's what it has been described.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: As crime stores with Nancy Grace, do you co explain
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: what is a bolt action weapon?
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: This right here, Nancy, is an example of a bolt
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: action weapon. This itself is the bolt action. It open
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: and closes, so every time you shoot, you have to
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: chamber another round. This is an example of one of
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: the rounds that the shooter could have been. This is
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: a three zero eight and it's one of the most
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: common rounds.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: It's just wait a minute, hold on, I've got to
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: look at that.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Zoom in on him.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: That is the type of bullet that went through Charlie's neck.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: That is a type of bullet that killed Charlie Kirk.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Look at that.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: This s ob has got to be caught and put
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: on trial.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: What explain to me what type of ballistic is that?
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: What type of bullet is that? KOA, This is a
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: three oh eight.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: It's normally used for the army uses its takedown enemy personnel.
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: It's also used for hunting large game such as deer,
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: black bear, and wild hogs.
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: So do you know how many transgender Americans have mashooters
• 21:39
  Speaker 7: over the last ten years?
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Too many?
• 21:48
  Speaker 9: Fine?
• 21:49
  Speaker 10: Okay, now by is a lot, right, I'm gonna.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Give you any of his credit. Do you know do
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: you know how many mashooners there have been in America
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: over the last.
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: Ten years, accounting or not counting gang violence.
• 22:05
  Speaker 10: He reached out to his neck and blood was starting
• 22:07
  Speaker 10: to gutshot.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Of his neck.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: It's about two minutes in when the shot was fired,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's neck violently snapping back after the shot rang out.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: What we believe to be the murder weapon has been
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: found in a would area not far from the shooting
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: of thirty one year old Charlie Kirk, the assassin leaving
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: his wife without a husband and his two young children
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: without a father.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Why we also.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Know that the bullet has been recovered, so we are
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: told now is the weapon left behind the weapon?
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: Is it a fake? Is a red herring? We can
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: determine that.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Very very easily, providing we have the bullet. Dan Murphy
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: joining me form my NYPD Detective Sergeant Joint Terrorism Task
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Force Dan. A ballistics test is easy to run to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: determine if the bullet that killed Charlie Kirk came from
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: that weapon or is the weapon a red herring? In
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: a nutshell, explain how that test will be done.
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: These tests had done very commonly across America anytime a
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: weapon is recovered to determine whether or not the rounds
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: found that a scene of a crime can match a weapon.
• 23:28
  Speaker 7: This is done through the art of ballistics, which is
• 23:29
  Speaker 7: looking at the various ways that the bullet itself has
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: changed during the course of its movements up to it,
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: including hitting bone, et cetera. But that bullet can be
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: traced back to the boring inside a rifle, and it
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: can be definitively set in court. This round was fired
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: from this rifle or this handgun, and that's what's going
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: to happen in this case.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: As it works, the murder weapon will be shot. You
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: will sheet from the murder weapon into let's just say
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: a tub of water or into a mattress. As a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: clean bullet hurdles down the barrel of what we believe
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: to be the murder weapon, the inside of the barrel
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: is unique.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: It's like a fingerprint.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Why because as the gun was made, the metal cooled
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in a certain fashion, with little dots and ridges and
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: imperfections on the inside of the barrel that you can't see.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: And as the bullet hurdles down that barrel, it hits
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: up against those imperfections, leaving what we call a striation mark,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: which is peculiar to that weapon. Only no other weapon
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: will create those striation marks or scratches.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: That's an easy way.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Then you take the bullet that you just fired the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: nun bullet and you compare it to the bullet found
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: in the scene, and you look at them under a microscope,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and you compare this striation marks on the bullet and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: they will match if that's the murder weapon or did
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the shooter or someone else leave a red herring. We
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: also know a foot print was found straight out to
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Greg Morris, joining US high profile defense attorney from Morse's
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: legal author of the untested on Amazon, Greg Footprints, you
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: have to make a cast of the footprint to me,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: depending on the surface on which you find the footprint.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Depending on the surface, footprints can be very very probative.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Now this is out in a wooded area. We think
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: it's where the footprint was found. Hey wait a minute, Morse,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: what if the footprint was found where the perp jumped
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: down off the building. That would be a lot easier
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: to test than a footprint.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Made on so earth.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: See what I mean, the footprint Just think of you.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Let's see, I don't know what kind of tint of
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: s shee you wear. Let's just say you wear Brooks, okay,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and you walk through the mud and you then walk
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: on your kitchen floor. The mud leaves a direct imprint
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: of your shoe, even telling me your shoe size, whether
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: you walk pigeon, toad, slue footed bear in on the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: inside or the outside, it tells me a lot. Right,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: So if they got this footprint where he jumped down,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I may get a lot. If it's on soft terrain
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: like around the tree in pine straw.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Or malleable earth, not so much.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: But they're saying they got a footprint, right, What can
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you do with that?
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Morse?
• 26:48
  Speaker 11: Well, it's for you know, potentially circumstantial, because you have
• 26:52
  Speaker 11: to arrest the assassin with the shoes on that made
• 26:55
  Speaker 11: the footprint and link them to him.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Nada. You can find the shoes in his car, in
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: his trot, in his.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Home, abandon anything, and once I get the shoes out
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: of a dumpster, the DNA off of it.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Hello, thank man.
• 27:09
  Speaker 11: You're you're one hundred percent right, which also waters down
• 27:13
  Speaker 11: the evidentiary value of that.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: But you're right.
• 27:16
  Speaker 11: They can find the sneaker in the house, they can
• 27:18
  Speaker 11: find it anywhere. It doesn't have to be on his feet.
• 27:20
  Speaker 11: But what that's going to do as the police, you know,
• 27:23
  Speaker 11: police are reactionary, right, They are putting this together piece
• 27:27
  Speaker 11: by piece, and then they'll see how that fits in
• 27:30
  Speaker 11: if potentially a prosecutor someone's alive, they arrest them, charge
• 27:34
  Speaker 11: them to see how that.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Fits in with regard to this.
• 27:38
  Speaker 11: But I think there's a bigger point here, which is
• 27:42
  Speaker 11: this person was dressed in all black walking around a campus.
• 27:47
  Speaker 11: I looked at the weather in Utah yesterday. You see
• 27:49
  Speaker 11: most people are in T shirts. It was in the
• 27:51
  Speaker 11: low eighties, high seventies. It is beyond belief to me
• 27:55
  Speaker 11: that a person, a human, any human on that campus
• 27:59
  Speaker 11: didn't notice this. This is so out of character.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: This guy was not walking around campus getting a diet
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: coke at the student union. This guy remained hidden and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: he snuck to the building, went straight to the top.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: For all I know, he was up there two days ago.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know how long he's been up there. He
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: was not disagreement Hawaiian T shirt. No, but he's walked through.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: He didn't just peer out of the sky. So I
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: think that's you know, me through. But I doubt he
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: walked through dressed like a ninja.
• 28:31
  Speaker 11: Well, it doesn't look like from the photos that you
• 28:35
  Speaker 11: know he's getting dressed up there. That's not normal.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Maybe he did, Maybe he didn't. But you're adding facts
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: that don't make much sense of cases.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm wondering why right now he did not he
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: dressed like a ninja with a face mask on. He's
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: snuck up there, or he's been up there for overnight
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: for all I know.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: But granted, yes, he stuck out like a sore thumb.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Ain't you just gave me another Ideatically he discarded that
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: face mask.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: You know there's hair in it? Right?
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: If I could just get part of that get up
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: he's wearing, guys, In the last hours, a press release.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: A press release occurred, and we learned that investigators.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Have other evidence as well. Everybody listen.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: They have not only a foot wear impression footprint.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: But they also have a palm print.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: The evidence includes a palm print and a four arm
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: m print.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: Where did they get it? They? Did they get it
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: off the roof? Dan Murphy?
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: How difficult is it to get fingerprints off the surface
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: of a roof? And if this shooter did what Cole
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Lormore says he did, he had a sniper's nest up
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: there before the shooting. Did he wear gloves on those days?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Did he go up there dressed as I said in
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a Hawaiian T shirt or a Utah T shirt to
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: blend in.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: I mean that is a huge, huge source of information.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Up evince one hair, one fingerprint, anything, Dan, how do
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: we do it? Yep?
• 30:15
  Speaker 7: Right now, you have got tons to work on in
• 30:17
  Speaker 7: this case. I have absolutely no doubt that this individual
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: will be arrested, and I think in the next forty
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: eight hours we'll see in arrest this person. As slick
• 30:25
  Speaker 7: as they think they are, they're not that slick. Everybody
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: screws up. If you left the forum impression, it's because
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: possibly up on the roof, it's a softer roof, maybe
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: there was a way because of the heat of the sun.
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: It'll enable that. But if you left the palm print,
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: that means he was not wearing gloves, provided it's his
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: palm print. If he's not wearing gloves, that means he
• 30:44
  Speaker 7: loaded the weapon without wearing gloves, which all leaves fingerprints
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: on rounds, on magazines, on all of it. All of
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: this is usable evidence. The hair, any DNA that may
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: come off, that is all usable evidence. This individual probably
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: from out of town. You're going to check hot tells,
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: You're going to check rental cars, You're going to check
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: vehicles parked in parking lots. You're going to check the video.
• 31:06
  Speaker 7: There's so many investigative avenues right now. I don't give
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: this person much chance to get out of this. They're
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: going to get caught.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I got something more for everybody to drink in. Earlier
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: today we learned that investigators say the perp arrived on
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: campus eleven fifty two a m. But that's just today.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: That does not negate Lori Moore's assertion that this sniper's
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: nest had been staked out before and prepared before. But
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: on the day of the shooting, he arrived at eleven.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: Fifty two a m.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And get this, they have been able to track Gibbs
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: movements on the campus through stairwells to a roof to
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: the shooting location. So doctor Chloe Carmichael joining us or
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: a now psychologist and author, Chloe, this guy was lying
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: in weight. He was lying in wait since eleven fifty
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: two am this morning. And he didn't just show up.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: He didn't just fall off the turnip truck outside that building.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: He knew how to navigate the building's interior up to
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the roof. He has been tracked all the way up
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the stairwell into the building, up the stairwell, into the roof,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: if he wasn't wearing gloves, if he touched that banister,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: if he touched anything a door knob without.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: The gloves on, He's toast.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Who plans something to this degree and why.
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: It's eerily similar. President Trump's assassination in Butler, Pennsylvania was
• 32:43
  Speaker 12: from a rooftop just one hundred and thirty three yards away.
• 32:46
  Speaker 12: This one was from a rooftop two hundred yards away.
• 32:50
  Speaker 12: I would like to understand, you know, why more isn't
• 32:54
  Speaker 12: being done as far as security. The healthy function of
• 32:57
  Speaker 12: anger is to stimulate boundary setting behaviors. So why when
• 33:02
  Speaker 12: we're angry about these attacks, why aren't we enforcing our boundaries?
• 33:06
  Speaker 12: Why aren't we strengthening our boundaries.
• 33:10
  Speaker 13: Accounting we're not coming day winess?
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: Oh my god.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Also, tonight we are learning that phrases were written on
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the gun, written on the rifle and the ammunition discovered
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: in the woods, very very similar to phrases written on
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the ammunition in the Luigi Mangioni assassination.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: Who goes to the trouble to.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Write phrases related to cultural issues.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: On the ammo?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: We are learning among the markings initials at law enforcement
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: using in hopes of matching them with a suspect. Wow, okay,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Catherine Schweidt, you are the creator of the FBI's Active
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Shooter program.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: What does this mean?
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: I think this is very typical what we're seeing now
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: with some of our most scary shooters is they're wanting
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: to be famous, and this is the way they want
• 34:14
  Speaker 6: to be famous. They don't even necessarily have to have
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: a political bent or view. They just want to be famous.
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: And they see that other people have done this on
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: their weapons, not only in United States but worldwide, and
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: on their magazines and their ammunition to make sure that
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: everybody knows who they are, and they identify on those
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: weapons lots of things like you know, political but also
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: cultural controversial things, and they just want to have a voice,
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: and this is how they do it, a voice after
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: they disappear, after they die, if they commit suicide or
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: they're killed.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: What do you think about the video and what you've
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: learned on the FBI sac presser.
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: I think what we have is, as you just heard,
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: we're going to be We're going to be going probably
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: to get this guy pretty quickly.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: I think that.
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: The one thing that struck me about the press press
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: conference this morning is that the SEC said, we have
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: a good video from him getting up into getting to
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: the building eleven fifty two, getting up, getting on the building,
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: getting jumping off the building. Clearly they had full video
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: footage of him the whole ways, but I think that
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: they must have a shot where they have a face.
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: And the reason I say that is because he said,
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: we will release the video if we can't use technology
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: to identify who he is. And a it could be
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: that they're looking to tak to try to do a
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: palm print, but I think the fact that he said
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: that gives me the impression that we probably have possibly
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: a hood down someplace, a face uncovered at some place,
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: and otherwise they're going to release it and have people
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: hope to identifid And.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: The reality is, Catherine schwa it doesn't have to be
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that day, since we know who was wearing a face
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: covering that day. That facial recognition video could be from
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: another day when he was walking through campus and heading
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: over there to go up those steps, or it could
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: be the day of the shooting before he put on
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the master's any number of times he could have been
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: caught on video facially.
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: Exactly they pulled this video footage, they find out the
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: same they pulled a feed from shooting yesterday.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: They can pull the.
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: Feed from the day before and see a guy who
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: doesn't have his face covered running a reconnaissance. So I'm
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: thinking that's why they think they might be able to
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: use technology to figure it out.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Straight back out to CoA lormore former Army snipers sharpshooter.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: The type of weapons specifically is a thirty odd to
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: six caliber high powered bolt action. It's a military rifle
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: very popular with hunters. Several bullets, including a spent round,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: found in the rifles chambers were recovered.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: Explained, so thirty.
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: Odd six is extremely common among hunters all across the
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: United States, especially in those Midwest states, and leaving the
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: round expended round in the chamber is essentially smart because
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: you don't want to leave anything on the target. You
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: don't want to leave anything on his sniper hide site.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: What did you just say?
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: You don't want to leave anything on a sniper wet
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: is sniper's.
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: Nest you're referring to. You don't want to leave anything there.
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: So how he left the palm print, Yeah.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, got you.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: The palm print could also, Gosh, I don't think it's
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: going to be on the weapon. I think the forearm.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: How would a forearm print get on the weapon? Looks
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: like he's wearing long sleeves. Where would the forearm print
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: be found? Maybe from an earlier day when he was
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: up there?
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: How could you leave behind a forearm print? CoA.
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: The forearm print could be left behind either on the
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: ground or on the weapon based on how he's looks
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: like he's shooting, laying down, which is the most stable
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: shooting position for any long range shooter.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Two special guests joining us now doctor Kendall Crowns, chief
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: medical Examiner Terran County. He is the esteemed lecturer at
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. He's the star
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: of a Hitney podcast, Mayhem and the Morgue, and he
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: has performed literally thousands and thousands of autopsies for my
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: purposes tonight, including gunshot wound autopsies. I wanted you to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: hear the type of ballistic and see the bullet type
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: that Cole or Moore.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Just showed us.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: This couldn't have been instant instantaneous death a doctor Kendall
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: crowns because we know that Charlie Kirk grabbed I think
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: with his right arm, grabbed his neck when he was shot,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: so he knew what was happening to him, explain to
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: us what happened.
• 39:06
  Speaker 10: So in the very graphic video of him being shot,
• 39:09
  Speaker 10: you can see the wound coming into his neck right
• 39:12
  Speaker 10: around where I'm indicating, and he tips backwards right after
• 39:17
  Speaker 10: he's shot, and he brings his arms up. But actually
• 39:20
  Speaker 10: when he's bringing his arms up, he's exhibiting what we
• 39:23
  Speaker 10: call decordicut posturing, which means his spinal cord has been
• 39:29
  Speaker 10: severed from his brain and it's no longer communicating with
• 39:33
  Speaker 10: the rest of his body. So he was instantly rendered
• 39:36
  Speaker 10: a quadriplegic. So that movement you see is actually just
• 39:39
  Speaker 10: a reflexive movement by his nervous system trying to figure
• 39:43
  Speaker 10: out what's going on. Then you see him tipping to
• 39:47
  Speaker 10: the side and blood start gushing out of his wound
• 39:50
  Speaker 10: on his neck, which to me means it's an artery
• 39:53
  Speaker 10: that's hit more likely than not, the carotid artery and
• 39:57
  Speaker 10: the jugular veins, so he's hemorrhaging. Heavily out the side
• 40:00
  Speaker 10: of his neck as he's falling to the ground. Now,
• 40:03
  Speaker 10: this final cord being severed at this level could be
• 40:07
  Speaker 10: below C five C six, so he could still be
• 40:11
  Speaker 10: breathing and still be alive for a period of time,
• 40:16
  Speaker 10: which he was when he was rushed to the hospital
• 40:18
  Speaker 10: and die. But the damage that was done was so severe.
• 40:22
  Speaker 10: Even if he had survived, he probably would have had
• 40:24
  Speaker 10: a stroke and he would have been a quadriplegic.
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: Would you ever consider making a run for the presidency?
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: He knew that was devil.
• 40:35
  Speaker 8: I'm thirty one years old. I got a great life,
• 40:39
  Speaker 8: and if they ever run out of people, I don't
• 40:42
  Speaker 8: even know if I would consider it. You know why
• 40:44
  Speaker 8: people say, are you going to run for Senate or Congress?
• 40:46
  Speaker 8: I'd say, listen, honestly, I think the impact we're making
• 40:49
  Speaker 8: is bigger than sometimes some of the US senators. I
• 40:51
  Speaker 8: don't know if you guys agree or not. I do.
• 40:52
  Speaker 8: But again, I'm not trying to be braggadocious, but I
• 40:56
  Speaker 8: can say what I want to say. We have a
• 40:58
  Speaker 8: very successful podcast too. Listens to the Charlie kirkshow anybody?
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's amazing, Wow, he does and.
• 41:04
  Speaker 8: Our campus tours are sweeping, are sweeping the country, billions
• 41:07
  Speaker 8: of yews. I got over a thousand employees. I'm the
• 41:10
  Speaker 8: most blessed. I have to pinch myself when I wake
• 41:12
  Speaker 8: up every single day that I get to be able
• 41:14
  Speaker 8: to do this as my job, and so I never
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: want to lose that. I always just want the highest
• 41:19
  Speaker 8: and greatest.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: Impact from Charlie Kirk insta.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: At this hour, the manhunt is on for the lone shooter,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the assassin that gunned down thirty one year old Charlie Kirk.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of evidence. We have what we
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: believe to be the murder weapon. We have AMMO with
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: inscriptions written on it and or the murder weapon. Prayers
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: and thoughts two and four. Charlie Kirk's widow and two children.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: Listen.
• 42:01
  Speaker 13: I happen to be watching Charlie. I can't say I
• 42:04
  Speaker 13: saw blood. I can't say I saw him get shot.
• 42:07
  Speaker 13: But as soon as that shot went out, he fell.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Back, and who was left.
• 42:13
  Speaker 11: And everybody hit the deck.
• 42:16
  Speaker 9: Charlie Kirk is back on the road, manning his Proved
• 42:19
  Speaker 9: Me Wrong table at college campuses around the country this fall.
• 42:22
  Speaker 9: Kirk is calling his scheduled appearances the American Comeback Tour
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: That Proved Me Wrong. Debates have grown from simple conversations
• 42:31
  Speaker 9: with a few students over a folding table to ticketed
• 42:34
  Speaker 9: events students and locals turn out to in the thousands.
• 42:38
  Speaker 9: Kirk's first stop this year is at Utah Valley University
• 42:42
  Speaker 9: in Orum, Utah.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: That first seven from our friends at Fox News. At
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: this hour, the manhunt goes on for the assassin that
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: gunned down Charlie Kirk. Don't you know that every cam
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: is being processed, red light cams, doorbell cams, ring cam's
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: surveillance video at the campus and beyond cameras at firing
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: ranges where we believe the perp practiced this as the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: latest developments are that the weapon and AMMO have been found,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: which should give us a clue as to who is
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: the shooter. What about security? I mean, I know that's
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: would it could have, should have at this point, but
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: practically no security at the scene for Charlie Kirk. Also,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: he's at the bottom of a fishbowl, much like the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Mandalay shooter, is completely vulnerable from a shooter at an
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: elevated sniper's den.
• 43:44
  Speaker 13: Listen, Charlie has some security in front of him, but
• 43:50
  Speaker 13: you got the sense that the shot came kind of
• 43:52
  Speaker 13: straight at him, and I don't think there would be
• 43:56
  Speaker 13: many vantage points too far away because he was under
• 44:01
  Speaker 13: in the haunting.
• 44:02
  Speaker 9: Students and or locals who attended Kirk's American Comeback tour
• 44:06
  Speaker 9: say there was a little security and no bag checks
• 44:09
  Speaker 9: or metal detectors at the event. The debate between students
• 44:13
  Speaker 9: and Kirk was a ticketed event, but students said on
• 44:16
  Speaker 9: arrival campus staff was not checking them in and anyone
• 44:20
  Speaker 9: was allowed to come and go as they pleased.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: That first down from our friends at Fox and Friends
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: back to Coote Laurimore. There's no way that security directly
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: in front of Charlie could have protected him from a
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: sniper at an elevated angle.
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: No, there's no way that they could have prevented this
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: with security just standing right in front of him. They
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: would have to have security a couple hundred meters out
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: on all the buildings in the surrounding areas. It was
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: just a bad combination, Kle.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I'd like to see the bullet that you were showing
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: us again. Imagine that tearing through thirty one year old
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk's throat. Leaving behind a widow, a young widow
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: and two infant children. To Dan Murphy joining US former
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force, and so much more Star
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Goalshields Podcast, Dan. The evidence is piling up, but this
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: guy could still outsmart everybody.
• 45:30
  Speaker 7: Nancy, I don't think he's going to how smart to anybody.
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: I think he's left the trail of evidence because he
• 45:35
  Speaker 7: is the typical criminal in many ways. Who does that.
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: He's acting out of emotion. This is a well planned event,
• 45:42
  Speaker 7: but I don't care how well you plan it. The
• 45:44
  Speaker 7: typical person is going to screw up. They've left the trail.
• 45:48
  Speaker 7: They will be found. I have one hundred confidence and
• 45:52
  Speaker 7: arrest and the right person will be caught quickly.
• 45:54
  Speaker 14: The investigation is ongoing, but I want to make it
• 46:00
  Speaker 14: crystal clear right now to whoever did this, we will
• 46:04
  Speaker 14: find you.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: identity of the assassin that took the life of thirty
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: one year old.
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: Dad Charlie Kirk.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Please don't try and protect someone out of a false
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: sense of loyalty. Don't believe that what you know is
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: insignificant or means nothing. It could very well be the
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: one clue that cracks the murder case.
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: Tip line eight.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Zero one five seventy nine fourteen hundred Repeat eight zero
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: one five seven nine fourteen hundred tips dot FBI dot gov.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: And of course.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: The timing of the shooting is so heartbreaking as well.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Tonight we remember the thousands who lost their lives September eleventh.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I was there that day and will never forget the pain,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: the wake of pain left behind. On September eleventh, we
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: honor those the emergency workers, the military, police volunteers, those
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: people who put themselves in harm's way to save others
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and for our freedom.
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: And to the assassin, if you believe your bullet stopped us.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: And anyone from speaking out, you are very wrong.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: You have only empowered us.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, good bye friend,