Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Offseason Position Reviews: Starting Pitching
Transcript
- 0:09Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory,
- 0:13Speaker 1: presented to you by the Foul Territory Network. I'm Noah Hiles.
- 0:16Speaker 1: Joining me, as always, are my co-hosts, Platinum Key, a.k.a.
- 0:19Speaker 1: Mark and Josh Harrison. It is Tuesday, October 6th. The
- 0:22Speaker 1: postseason is going on. Pirates are not involved, so we
- 0:27Speaker 1: will be talking about what it's going to look like, potentially,
- 0:30Speaker 1: for this team in 2027. We hinted at this last week.
- 0:34Speaker 1: We're going to go position by position here in the
- 0:36Speaker 1: month of October, just kind of review all the different
- 0:39Speaker 1: position groups, what could be coming back, what they might
- 0:42Speaker 1: want to add. And for today's show, we're talking about
- 0:45Speaker 1: the starting rotation. So the way this will go is
- 0:47Speaker 1: we're going to start off by just kind of reviewing
- 0:50Speaker 1: again a little bit like how we thought they did,
- 0:53Speaker 1: talking about the guys coming back and what you can expect,
- 0:56Speaker 1: maybe some internal additions they can make to it as
- 0:59Speaker 1: far as like minor league call-ups, giving guys some other responsibilities.
- 1:03Speaker 1: Then we'll take a little break. Then we'll talk about
- 1:05Speaker 1: if they were to add, what they would want to add.
- 1:09Speaker 1: And it doesn't even need to necessarily be like, a
- 1:11Speaker 1: specific name, but just more like the idea of it.
- 1:14Speaker 1: And that's going to be today's show. So guys, without
- 1:16Speaker 1: further ado, let's get into it. The starting rotation was
- 1:20Speaker 1: supposed to be the best element of this team this year.
- 1:22Speaker 1: I don't know if you could definitively say it was.
- 1:25Speaker 1: It was certainly good, but probably not good enough. And
- 1:29Speaker 1: obviously that starts with Paul Skeens. He was the headliner
- 1:32Speaker 1: of this rotation entering the season as the reigning National
- 1:35Speaker 1: League Cy Young. He was an all-star, but he was
- 1:38Speaker 1: not a Cy Young this year.
- 1:41Speaker 2: Jared Jones, I.
- 1:42Speaker 1: Think, took a step forward. Braxton Ashcraft took a step
- 1:44Speaker 1: forward and as did Bubba Chandler. So the other three,
- 1:47Speaker 1: the three young guys all look pretty good. Mitch Keller regressed.
- 1:52Speaker 1: He went on the IL in early August and missed
- 1:55Speaker 1: the rest of the season. Before that, he was not
- 1:57Speaker 1: very good. Confusing to kind of picture what he looks
- 2:01Speaker 1: like next year. So with all that being established, right,
- 2:05Speaker 1: you still have your headliner, you have three guys who
- 2:07Speaker 1: are trending upward, and then you have Mitch Keller. I'll
- 2:12Speaker 1: ask Mark, I mean, how do you feel about this
- 2:14Speaker 1: rotation as a whole heading into next year? Are you
- 2:17Speaker 1: good with where it's at?
- 2:18Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm feeling really, really good about this rotation,
- 2:22Speaker 3: mostly because of the three guys that you mentioned, Braxton Ashcraft,
- 2:26Speaker 3: Bubba Chandler, Jared Jones.
- 2:28Speaker 2: They.
- 2:29Speaker 3: finished on such a high note. I mean, Jared Jones
- 2:31Speaker 3: having the lowest CRA in baseball for the final month
- 2:34Speaker 3: and Braxton Ashcroft getting an all-star nod. Bubba Chandler just
- 2:39Speaker 3: consistently looking better and better and better each start. I
- 2:43Speaker 3: am so excited to see how he attacks next year.
- 2:47Speaker 3: I think his ceiling is just the highest of those three,
- 2:52Speaker 3: which is crazy to say because Jared Jones and Braxton
- 2:55Speaker 3: Ashcroft are both really, really talented. But Bubba's just such
- 2:59Speaker 3: a freak athlete that I really think we just haven't
- 3:02Speaker 3: even seen him scratch the surface. So that's what I'm
- 3:04Speaker 3: excited about. But as far as Keller, it's going to
- 3:08Speaker 3: be interesting to see what they do. Because one, how
- 3:11Speaker 3: is he going to look? But two, he's due $ 18 million.
- 3:14Speaker 3: And $ 20 million the year after that. So that's a
- 3:18Speaker 3: sizable contract investment for a big question mark right now.
- 3:23Speaker 3: So how you... approach your offseason I feel like with
- 3:26Speaker 3: the starting rotation really kind of centers on what you
- 3:28Speaker 3: do with Mitch Keller do you want to hold him
- 3:30Speaker 3: do you want to wait or do you want to
- 3:32Speaker 3: see if you can find a deal for him.
- 3:36Speaker 2: Josh so um you know analyzing everything both of you
- 3:41Speaker 2: all said you mentioned the three that took step forwards
- 3:44Speaker 2: um you know took a step forward you gotta like
- 3:47Speaker 2: where the, you know, rotation is. If you mentioned those
- 3:50Speaker 2: three taking a step forward, which before the season, those
- 3:53Speaker 2: were the guys that we said were going to be
- 3:54Speaker 2: key to the rotation. Little did we know that Paul considering,
- 3:59Speaker 2: you know, Paul's held to a higher standard, you know,
- 4:02Speaker 2: it was a down year for Paul. Um, but on,
- 4:04Speaker 2: at the same time, when we were talking about those
- 4:06Speaker 2: three names, we were, you know, mentioning Paul and Mitch
- 4:09Speaker 2: kind of being the two front runners of, you know,
- 4:12Speaker 2: been there, done that less lead and show the way, um,
- 4:16Speaker 2: And I still think you got to be looking pretty positive. Um,
- 4:20Speaker 2: cause as you sit and reflect, you know, maybe at
- 4:22Speaker 2: the end of the season, Paul was able to identify
- 4:24Speaker 2: where he went wrong or where the breakdown. So you,
- 4:27Speaker 2: you look to say, maybe this is that outlier, you know, on,
- 4:31Speaker 2: on the back of Paul's car to where he come
- 4:33Speaker 2: back next year. And he's, you know, the Paul schemes
- 4:35Speaker 2: of what you expected in those three guys taking a
- 4:37Speaker 2: step forward. You have the question Mark with Mitch Keller, um, health,
- 4:42Speaker 2: obviously contract status, but, um, you know, you still want
- 4:46Speaker 2: to look into maybe, as you said, Noah calls for
- 4:49Speaker 2: option of internal depth, something that we may cover in
- 4:52Speaker 2: the next segment, you know, if you were to add externally.
- 4:55Speaker 2: But I would say you got to like your front four,
- 4:58Speaker 2: just given that, you know, you expect Paul to come
- 5:01Speaker 2: back and be Paul. And if those other three guys
- 5:04Speaker 2: continue to take strides forward, you know, you're talking about
- 5:07Speaker 2: a fifth starter, which every team is talking about a
- 5:10Speaker 2: fifth starter. And, you know, obviously you have the question
- 5:13Speaker 2: mark with Mitch, but, you know, Now you're not looking like, oh,
- 5:15Speaker 2: we got two spots. I mean, still going to check
- 5:18Speaker 2: your depth. But, you know, as I said, you're expecting
- 5:21Speaker 2: Paul to come back and really be the anchor of
- 5:24Speaker 2: this rotation. And hopefully, you know, those three guys continue
- 5:28Speaker 2: to trend upward and you're looking like what we thought
- 5:30Speaker 2: this rotation was going to be. The, you know, the
- 5:33Speaker 2: front runner to kind of, you know, anchor this team.
- 5:37Speaker 1: Yeah, on the note of the fifth starter, it's interesting
- 5:39Speaker 1: because on paper, yeah, the one through five is pretty clear-cut,
- 5:43Speaker 1: assuming Keller's ready for the beginning of this season. And while, yeah,
- 5:47Speaker 1: you have guys who you wonder what their innings limits
- 5:50Speaker 1: will still be like, like Ashcraft obviously didn't finish the
- 5:53Speaker 1: year healthy, workload will probably be something they monitor with him.
- 5:56Speaker 1: Jared Jones, first full season back after the arm surgery,
- 6:02Speaker 1: and they're probably just going to have to monitor his
- 6:04Speaker 1: workload again for his entire career, honestly. But even with
- 6:08Speaker 1: that said, you have good fill-in guys. If you need
- 6:12Speaker 1: to have Carmen be a starter for a month, that's
- 6:17Speaker 1: not an option I would like to see, but that's
- 6:18Speaker 1: an option you have. You have Christian Curtis. You have
- 6:22Speaker 1: a guy like Wilbur Dottel who could get you through
- 6:24Speaker 1: the order at least twice. Players like that who really
- 6:30Speaker 1: can kind of fill that void temporarily. It's just the
- 6:33Speaker 1: question of if you're... if your main four can remain
- 6:37Speaker 1: healthy and if that's the case, and obviously that's what
- 6:41Speaker 1: a lot of teams hope to happen or have happened.
- 6:44Speaker 1: But if these, if these four can just give you
- 6:46Speaker 1: a full season, then you really don't need a lot
- 6:49Speaker 1: of work. But before we go to a break real quick,
- 6:52Speaker 1: I mean, guys who are, is there anyone else that
- 6:54Speaker 1: I named that you would like to maybe see get
- 6:57Speaker 1: a little bit of a look into the rotation next
- 6:59Speaker 1: year as just kind of like a supplementary piece. If
- 7:01Speaker 1: guys go down, give this guy an opportunity.
- 7:04Speaker 3: I'll start really quick. Uh, Christian Curtis, uh, we saw
- 7:07Speaker 3: a little bit in MLB, uh, very intrigued to see
- 7:11Speaker 3: what he can do as a starter. Um, I feel
- 7:13Speaker 3: like that's a decent option. And then I'll let Josh take, uh, the,
- 7:17Speaker 3: the other more fun option here.
- 7:20Speaker 2: Well, I was going to go Wilbur Dottel. Okay. Um,
- 7:23Speaker 2: you know, Wilbur, obviously, you know, I, I had a
- 7:26Speaker 2: little birdie, as I mentioned earlier, that saw him in
- 7:28Speaker 2: spring before he came up and, you know, Wilbur pitched
- 7:31Speaker 2: really well out of, you know, relief, but, um, You know,
- 7:34Speaker 2: guys like that, sometimes when you need them to step up,
- 7:38Speaker 2: sometimes guys like that are interesting options to be him.
- 7:41Speaker 2: And then I know another guy, maybe I remember, as
- 7:45Speaker 2: I mentioned, like Antoine Kelly, depending on how his development
- 7:50Speaker 2: comes and, you know, throughout spring. But, you know, these
- 7:53Speaker 2: are guys that I could see getting opportunities, you know,
- 7:56Speaker 2: if Mitch isn't quite ready right away. Because obviously, even
- 8:00Speaker 2: if Mitch is ready, you don't know what Mitch you're
- 8:03Speaker 2: going to get. Coming back from injury. Just being honest,
- 8:07Speaker 2: coming back from injury is not easy. These are options
- 8:12Speaker 2: internally that they have which aren't bad options to have.
- 8:16Speaker 1: Not to get into the bullpen too much, but I
- 8:18Speaker 1: kind of like the idea of having a couple of
- 8:21Speaker 1: long relievers there, like in the beginning of the season,
- 8:24Speaker 1: like why push it with Braxton or Jared or really anyone,
- 8:28Speaker 1: just let them go five and then just kind of
- 8:30Speaker 1: have two or three guys in addition to Majinski and
- 8:33Speaker 1: Bakker that can give you multiple ups and kind of
- 8:36Speaker 1: stretch it out. And you keep them stretched out to
- 8:38Speaker 1: where if someone goes down, you can say, all right,
- 8:41Speaker 1: we could do a bullpen game or we could have
- 8:43Speaker 1: like a traditional start, albeit an abbreviated one. I think
- 8:46Speaker 1: they have, they're setting up pretty well next year as
- 8:49Speaker 1: far as their internal depth. Again, assuming their, their big
- 8:53Speaker 1: dogs don't have any regressions. Mark, did you have anything
- 8:57Speaker 1: to say before we wrap it up?
- 8:58Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just going to throw out one more
- 8:59Speaker 3: name towards the very, very end. Seth Hernandez is still
- 9:03Speaker 3: lurking around. You know, I don't think he'll probably make
- 9:07Speaker 3: this rotation next year, but come September, if he's ready
- 9:12Speaker 3: and the pirates are pushing for the playoffs, I mean,
- 9:15Speaker 3: I would love to see him.
- 9:16Speaker 1: Yeah. Why not? So, That's the way it's going to
- 9:19Speaker 1: shape out. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. Cause that's how, when
- 9:22Speaker 1: I look at this rotation, it's like, they're probably going
- 9:24Speaker 1: to need a number five in September unless Keller returns
- 9:28Speaker 1: to what Keller's form is. And we're going to get
- 9:30Speaker 1: into that after this break. But, um, yeah, I think
- 9:34Speaker 1: regardless of what happens with their five, I think four
- 9:37Speaker 1: of the five, you could probably depend on having a
- 9:40Speaker 1: spot covered, um, at worst, I think you're going to
- 9:44Speaker 1: have three spots. And then by the time you're in September,
- 9:46Speaker 1: you're using a bullpen game anyway. So you're probably going
- 9:50Speaker 1: to need one rotation spot come September. And he could,
- 9:54Speaker 1: easily be the guy that fills that if it lines
- 9:57Speaker 1: up that way. We're going to take a quick break.
- 9:59Speaker 1: When we come back, we're going to talk about what
- 10:00Speaker 1: type of additions we potentially could see the Pirates making
- 10:03Speaker 1: to this rotation here on Bucko Territory.
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- 10:14Speaker 3: the Pirate season's wrapped up, there's still plenty of live
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- 11:10Speaker 1: Alright, so as we said, the Pirates don't have a
- 11:13Speaker 1: ton of work to do for the rotation. It's really
- 11:15Speaker 1: going to come down to internal improvement because this is
- 11:18Speaker 1: really the main area of the team where I don't
- 11:21Speaker 1: know if it would make a ton of sense to...
- 11:24Speaker 1: put a lot of external money into like to sign
- 11:26Speaker 1: a big free agent. Now, if they did, that would
- 11:28Speaker 1: be fun. You know, if you just said, Hey, let's,
- 11:31Speaker 1: let's double down on our strength. But considering, you know,
- 11:37Speaker 1: how finances are always kind of limited here, not kind of,
- 11:40Speaker 1: they just are. I don't know if that would make
- 11:43Speaker 1: the most sense for them because you could probably bank
- 11:45Speaker 1: on some of these guys to get better. So with
- 11:48Speaker 1: that said, is it's a position that you really need
- 11:50Speaker 1: to make any, External additions. They, they, they signed one
- 11:54Speaker 1: guy last year. It was Jose or Katie. He broke camp,
- 11:57Speaker 1: but like there wasn't really, uh, an external guy who
- 12:02Speaker 1: came in and started games for them, unless you count
- 12:04Speaker 1: Lake Walker. So is that, is that something you need
- 12:07Speaker 1: to see them do this year?
- 12:10Speaker 2: Um, I mean, obviously we just talk internal options. You
- 12:13Speaker 2: don't know what, you know, Mitch Keller's going to look
- 12:15Speaker 2: like when he comes back. You don't know how those
- 12:17Speaker 2: internal options, you know, we'll take a stride or whatever. Um,
- 12:22Speaker 2: So to add externally, they would have to be creative,
- 12:26Speaker 2: but if they were to, I mean, I wouldn't mind
- 12:29Speaker 2: maybe seeing a left-handed starter. I mean, it's one of
- 12:32Speaker 2: those situations where if you can't beat them, not necessarily
- 12:36Speaker 2: join them, have them join you. You know what I mean?
- 12:38Speaker 2: But just to compliment those other four starters and, you know,
- 12:42Speaker 2: if it gives Mitch time to, you know, if it's
- 12:44Speaker 2: a lefty that can kind of be kind of a
- 12:46Speaker 2: swing guy where they start, but can be that guy
- 12:49Speaker 2: when Mitch comes back healthy and, be, you know, multiple
- 12:53Speaker 2: innings out of the pen. It's just another lefty out
- 12:56Speaker 2: the pen. But, you know, if they were to, I
- 12:59Speaker 2: could see maybe a left-handed starter. I mean, that was
- 13:01Speaker 2: kind of their offense's kryptonite last, you know, this past season.
- 13:06Speaker 2: And obviously it's one of those things where left-handed pitching
- 13:09Speaker 2: is a premium because, you know, obviously a lot of
- 13:11Speaker 2: people don't really grow up facing as often. But when
- 13:16Speaker 2: you got four arms like they do, you mix in
- 13:18Speaker 2: a lefty wrinkle, whether it's a power arm or whatever,
- 13:22Speaker 2: It's just a different vantage point. And, you know, who knows?
- 13:25Speaker 2: Seeing them in spring training might help them face some
- 13:28Speaker 2: lefties in the season.
- 13:31Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, Josh.
- 13:34Speaker 3: The one thing that this rotation is lacking is left-handed pitching.
- 13:37Speaker 3: Hunter Barco is the only option right now within the system. Yeah,
- 13:42Speaker 3: and I don't know if you really want to trust him.
- 13:44Speaker 3: He had an okay year in, like, 80 innings pitch, but...
- 13:49Speaker 3: still just not probably good enough to cut it at
- 13:51Speaker 3: the MLB level. And so if you want to go
- 13:54Speaker 3: out and get like, maybe like a Jose Quintana type
- 13:57Speaker 3: that veteran lefty who can kind of impart some wisdom
- 14:02Speaker 3: on this rotation, but not going to break the bank
- 14:05Speaker 3: as well. Cause I mean, you're looking at the contracts
- 14:10Speaker 3: for starting pitching is it's absurd. If you think Mitch
- 14:14Speaker 3: Keller is expensive, to get anything competitive is like, it's
- 14:18Speaker 3: a $ 20 million investment just for one year. And that's
- 14:23Speaker 3: like a Merrill Kelly type pitcher, you know, who had
- 14:26Speaker 3: a five ERA this year. So yeah, I, if you
- 14:29Speaker 3: can find a, like a veteran lefty, I think that's
- 14:33Speaker 3: the best play, but it's not anything high on my
- 14:37Speaker 3: wishlist for this off season for this team.
- 14:40Speaker 1: I think it all starts on if Mitch Keller's back.
- 14:43Speaker 1: I think that, honestly might be one of the top
- 14:45Speaker 1: priorities for them. If I were running the front office,
- 14:48Speaker 1: I would really look to get rid of Mitch. And
- 14:51Speaker 1: even if I have to eat some of his salary,
- 14:53Speaker 1: like I look at it, it's like, okay, well we
- 14:54Speaker 1: have 18 million committed to Mitch this year, but if
- 14:56Speaker 1: we can eat nine of it and then get the
- 14:58Speaker 1: rest off the books, I've got 9 million to go
- 15:01Speaker 1: find a. Yeah. And you can go get a nice. Yeah.
- 15:06Speaker 2: Right.
- 15:07Speaker 1: And if Mitch isn't back, then you're really looking to
- 15:11Speaker 1: just kind of– or at least the way I would
- 15:14Speaker 1: be approaching it would be find someone who can give
- 15:17Speaker 1: me 70-ish innings until the trade deadline, 70 to 80
- 15:21Speaker 1: innings until then, and then we'll see where we're at.
- 15:23Speaker 1: And if that person, if that Andrew Heaney, Bailey Falter type–
- 15:29Speaker 1: Bailey Falter wasn't a one-year signing, but they've had those guys, right?
- 15:32Speaker 1: Andrew Heaney– Jose Quintana was another one, Tyler Anderson. If
- 15:37Speaker 1: you can go find one of those, just a one year,
- 15:40Speaker 1: $ 5 million ish, five to $ 10 million ish left-hander to
- 15:44Speaker 1: kind of complete this rotation and at least get you
- 15:46Speaker 1: into July. And he can cover innings for the front half.
- 15:49Speaker 1: Cause again, I think in the back half, you're going
- 15:52Speaker 1: to have a little bit more flexibility. I think some
- 15:54Speaker 1: of these guys, I don't know if you're going to
- 15:56Speaker 1: have another starter up and ready, unless if it's Hernandez.
- 15:59Speaker 1: But I also look at like what mid season additions
- 16:02Speaker 1: you would need to make with this team. And again,
- 16:05Speaker 1: that might be the way to do it. Just get
- 16:07Speaker 1: Mitch's money, get as much of Mitch's money off the
- 16:09Speaker 1: books as possible. Use some of it to find a
- 16:11Speaker 1: replacement to get you to the front half and then
- 16:13Speaker 1: get to the trade deadline and see where you are.
- 16:16Speaker 1: And you can kind of either add to your bullpen
- 16:19Speaker 1: if you want to do bullpen games for the remainder
- 16:22Speaker 1: in that spot or find another starting rotation member. But
- 16:26Speaker 1: I think, yeah, getting rid of Mitch and if you
- 16:27Speaker 1: could find a way to get all that money off
- 16:29Speaker 1: the books, that not only gives you more possibilities with
- 16:33Speaker 1: your rotation, just your payroll in general, you could become
- 16:37Speaker 1: probably a better team. But then again, you know, if
- 16:39Speaker 1: Mitch comes back and he pitches well, that would help too.
- 16:42Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, the story with this position group,
- 16:45Speaker 1: as far as the off season acquisitions are concerned is
- 16:48Speaker 1: can they get rid of Mitch Keller? Can they take some,
- 16:50Speaker 1: can they convince someone to take all that money off
- 16:52Speaker 1: the books? And if so, that opens up an array
- 16:56Speaker 1: of possibilities. Do they want to spend big money on
- 16:59Speaker 1: a starter? Do they want to allocate that money elsewhere
- 17:03Speaker 1: and use what they have internally? Do they do something
- 17:05Speaker 1: in the middle? But I think if they're going to
- 17:08Speaker 1: ride with Mitch Keller in the next year, their options
- 17:11Speaker 1: as far as adding to the rotation externally are very
- 17:14Speaker 1: limited for the most part. All right. I want to
- 17:18Speaker 1: remind everyone to hit that subscribe button if they haven't already.
- 17:22Speaker 1: We're on a mission to 3,000 subs. Can't get there
- 17:24Speaker 1: without your help. Be sure to check out the Bucko
- 17:26Speaker 1: Territory Team Shop as well. Mark's got the hat on. Guys,
- 17:29Speaker 1: any final thoughts as we wrap this one up?
- 17:32Speaker 3: Noah just published a column in the Post-Gazette this morning
- 17:36Speaker 3: as we're recording it. So make sure you go give
- 17:38Speaker 3: that a read. Basically just saying everyone took a lot
- 17:42Speaker 3: of accountability across this team, except for the people at
- 17:45Speaker 3: the very, very top need to do that. Need to
- 17:47Speaker 3: keep pushing a lot of what we discussed last episode.
- 17:50Speaker 3: So make sure you give that a read. Very, very
- 17:52Speaker 3: solid piece.
- 17:54Speaker 2: Thank you, Mark. Yeah, I got nothing.
- 18:00Speaker 1: Just going to point out, it's been fun watching some
- 18:03Speaker 1: playoff baseball. Yeah, it's been fun. And seeing the small
- 18:07Speaker 1: market teams, You know, fight, seeing what the Rays are doing,
- 18:11Speaker 1: seeing what the Brewers have been doing. That series has
- 18:14Speaker 1: been electric so far. The White Sox, not a small
- 18:19Speaker 1: market team, but a team that was in first place
- 18:21Speaker 1: when this regime took over, completed an entire rebuild, and
- 18:26Speaker 1: is now just a couple of wins away from being
- 18:29Speaker 1: in the ALCS, all in the span where this regime
- 18:32Speaker 1: could not muster out anything better than an 82-win season. Yeah.
- 18:36Speaker 1: That's all we got for today. He's Platinum Key. He's
- 18:39Speaker 1: Josh Harrison. I'm Noah Hiles. We're signing off saying thanks
- 18:41Speaker 1: for tuning in to another episode of Bucko Territory presented
- 18:44Speaker 1: to you by the Foul Territory Network.
- 18:45Speaker 3: Take care.