Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Tim Shriver Introduces The Dignity Barometer, Explores Hatred In America + More

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INTERVIEW: Tim Shriver Introduces The Dignity Barometer, Explores Hatred In America + More · The Breakfast Club

0:01
Speaker 1: Every day a week ago.
0:04
Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club.
0:05
Speaker 3: You don't finished the y'all done morning. Everybody is DJ
0:09
Speaker 3: n V, Jesse hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are to
0:11
Speaker 3: breakfast Club long. The rules is here with us as well.
0:14
Speaker 3: We got a special guest in the building, indeed, Tim Shriver,
0:17
Speaker 3: Welcome guy.
0:18
Speaker 1: You nice to be here. I appreciate you'all having.
0:21
Speaker 4: Me tell them a little bit about who Tim Shriver
0:23
Speaker 4: is before we get started about why you're hear well.
0:26
Speaker 1: I grew up in a big family, a lot of politicians.
0:29
Speaker 1: I started my career teaching. I spent fifteen years teaching
0:31
Speaker 1: in the New Haven Public schools. UH created a field
0:36
Speaker 1: called social and Emotional learning, looking at the mental health
0:41
Speaker 1: issues and the challenges a lot of kids face across
0:43
Speaker 1: all income, race, gender, all that kind of stuff, and
0:47
Speaker 1: spent the last twenty five years in Special Olympics working
0:51
Speaker 1: on disability, healing the gap between people who do and
0:54
Speaker 1: don't have intellectual developmental disabilities. In the last couple of years,
0:57
Speaker 1: I've been trying to figure out there's a way to
0:59
Speaker 1: heal the gaps in our country. You're a chairman, yes, sir.
1:02
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and Tim.
1:04
Speaker 4: Tim has created a survey thatttracts how we're treating each
1:08
Speaker 4: other in America called the Dignity Barometer.
1:11
Speaker 1: Dignity Barometer, what is that? So the question you know,
1:15
Speaker 1: sear we've been asking, I think the country has been asking,
1:18
Speaker 1: is what's tearing us apart so badly? Why are we
1:20
Speaker 1: so angry? Why are we so anxious? Why are mental
1:23
Speaker 1: health problems growing? Why can't we talk about issues? Why
1:26
Speaker 1: can't we solve problems? Our view is that we sometimes
1:30
Speaker 1: I diagnose the problem as we differ, come from different backgrounds.
1:35
Speaker 1: We don't think it's differences that are the problems. We
1:38
Speaker 1: think it's how we treat each other when we differ,
1:40
Speaker 1: which is a whole different set of questions. So we
1:43
Speaker 1: decided to measure how do Americans think about how they're
1:46
Speaker 1: treating one another? Uh, And that's the this is why
1:49
Speaker 1: we've we launched this. This is called the Dignity Barometer.
1:52
Speaker 1: And we think at the heart of figuring out how
1:54
Speaker 1: we get more justice, more joy, more progress as a
1:58
Speaker 1: country is figuring out what to treat each other better.
2:01
Speaker 1: And that's what the survey tells us.
2:02
Speaker 4: This survey said that ninety four percent of Americans believe
2:06
Speaker 4: that all people deserve to be treated with dignity.
2:09
Speaker 1: So what can you do You believe.
2:11
Speaker 4: That I'm not gonna lie the same high But who's
2:14
Speaker 4: gonna lie about that?
2:15
Speaker 1: No? I know, but I mean it's it is. We
2:17
Speaker 1: were hoping we would get like fifty five percent would
2:20
Speaker 1: say yes, because I was worried when we asked that
2:23
Speaker 1: question was going to be like forty or thirty percent. No,
2:25
Speaker 1: I don't think those people should be I don't think
2:28
Speaker 1: you know, Republicans or Democrats. I don't think people that
2:30
Speaker 1: come from New York, or people that come from Missus whatever.
2:33
Speaker 1: You know. I thought we were gonna get a lot
2:35
Speaker 1: ninety four percent. Well, yeah, that's an aspirational goal for
2:38
Speaker 1: us as a country. And and and what's equally interesting
2:40
Speaker 1: I think in the barometer is that they say this
2:43
Speaker 1: is just as important, almost as important as the economy.
2:48
Speaker 1: People say, I think the number is eighty eighty six
2:51
Speaker 1: percent say the cost of living is the most important issue.
2:55
Speaker 1: The next one is eighty three percent, say, you know,
2:59
Speaker 1: talks the toxic culture is the next most important issue.
3:03
Speaker 1: So it's a kitchen table We call it a kitchen
3:06
Speaker 1: table issue. When you're talking about the price of eggs,
3:08
Speaker 1: when you're talking about can you walk on a safe street?
3:11
Speaker 1: You're also talking about do you trust your fellow Americans?
3:14
Speaker 1: That's important to people, and they see it as a crisis.
3:17
Speaker 4: So what does that tell you about society when you
3:18
Speaker 4: see ninety four percent of Americans believe that people deserve
3:20
Speaker 4: to be treated with dignity?
3:22
Speaker 2: Like, what does that tell you society wants?
3:23
Speaker 1: It tells me that people are hungry for leadership to
3:26
Speaker 1: show them how to do that. They will great rate.
3:29
Speaker 1: They rate the problem is coming from politics and the media, honestly,
3:34
Speaker 1: but they also realize they're not living up to their
3:36
Speaker 1: own aspirations. This is what was surprising. More than half
3:40
Speaker 1: of Americans say, we're not doing this. You know, we
3:43
Speaker 1: want this, but we're not doing it. So it's a
3:45
Speaker 1: little bit like we're naming the problem as politics, you know,
3:49
Speaker 1: the algorithm and all that stuff, which is, you know,
3:51
Speaker 1: really problematic, But we're also naming a problem that we
3:56
Speaker 1: can each be a part of solving. I said, you
3:58
Speaker 1: know the other day, just came out of our mouth.
4:00
Speaker 1: Not most of us can't solve the war in Iran,
4:04
Speaker 1: but we can solve the war at home. We can.
4:07
Speaker 1: That's it within our power. We don't have to wait
4:10
Speaker 1: for the president, a senator, a governor, mayor police chief,
4:15
Speaker 1: superintendent of schools. We don't have to wait. I mean,
4:17
Speaker 1: if we had leadership from those people, it would be great,
4:20
Speaker 1: and we do have in some spots. But we can
4:23
Speaker 1: we can, we can heal. This is you know, you've
4:25
Speaker 1: you've been talking for years now, Charlotte about mental health
4:29
Speaker 1: and about the urgency of facing mental health issues. How
4:32
Speaker 1: do we build mental wealth you find and you feel
4:37
Speaker 1: like you're treated with dignity? Absolutely, That's that's where it starts.
4:42
Speaker 1: When your dignity is violated, how can you be healthy?
4:45
Speaker 1: How how can you not resort to hostility and anger
4:49
Speaker 1: and violence. Our goal is to help people figure out
4:52
Speaker 1: how to find their own dignity and treat others with dignity.
4:55
Speaker 1: I think that would go a long way towards helping
4:57
Speaker 1: us get out of the mess we're in.
4:59
Speaker 5: I've seen you say people who use this index like
5:01
Speaker 5: in politics, it won't like censor like government, right, But
5:05
Speaker 5: how do you not censor? Like looking at the people
5:06
Speaker 5: who lead our government in certain administrations or whatever, how
5:09
Speaker 5: do you not censor but also tell them to treat
5:11
Speaker 5: other people with dignity when a lot of what they're
5:13
Speaker 5: saying and doing is the opposite of treating people with dignity.
5:16
Speaker 1: Well, we're just trying to Like. What I like to
5:18
Speaker 1: say is there's a new issue. So we might differ
5:21
Speaker 1: on what we should do in climate change, right, you
5:24
Speaker 1: and I, But we can discuss it, and you can say, well,
5:27
Speaker 1: on this moment, we should have done this, or we
5:29
Speaker 1: should be funding more for schools or whatever on this issue,
5:34
Speaker 1: we should have discussions. Is it appropriate for the mayor,
5:38
Speaker 1: the governor, the president, the senator to speak this way?
5:42
Speaker 1: How do you defend using this much contempt? Mister mayor,
5:45
Speaker 1: mister madam senator, you know, madam governor, whatever it is.
5:50
Speaker 4: I like the second part of that. I don't like
5:52
Speaker 4: the first part because the first part is asking an answer.
5:55
Speaker 2: We know that is the way that they should be
5:57
Speaker 2: conducting themselves. So I think the second part, how do
6:00
Speaker 2: you do? How do you continue?
6:01
Speaker 6: Like?
6:01
Speaker 2: What did you say?
6:02
Speaker 1: Well, what I'm saying is, here's the thing, shark. Most
6:05
Speaker 1: people don't see their own contempt. Do you see the
6:09
Speaker 1: contempt in other people, but you don't see it in
6:10
Speaker 1: your Like this woman said to me, I hate hateful people. Yeah,
6:17
Speaker 1: but she didn't see it. She didn't see that she
6:19
Speaker 1: had been That's right.
6:21
Speaker 2: I did that last week in my therapist.
6:22
Speaker 4: I literally, I literally was talking to my therapist about
6:25
Speaker 4: somebody that I was saying I hate it, and I
6:27
Speaker 4: felt so bad because I couldn't believe I had gotten
6:30
Speaker 4: to that point. Why I felt like I hated this individual,
6:33
Speaker 4: But I didn't actually hate them. I hated what they represent. Okay,
6:36
Speaker 4: The point is like I became what I became, the
6:39
Speaker 4: energy I didn't like you.
6:40
Speaker 1: You we all do that and we we get but
6:43
Speaker 1: if we started to catch ourselves challenge ourselves. We've seen
6:46
Speaker 1: this with you know, like with Governor Cox for instance
6:48
Speaker 1: in Utah after the Charlie Kirk murder.
6:51
Speaker 2: Uh.
6:52
Speaker 1: He really tried to treat the accused, perpetrator, the victim,
6:59
Speaker 1: his family, the country with a certain degree of dignity.
7:03
Speaker 1: He tried not to get trapped in the political advice.
7:07
Speaker 1: The same thing. You know, we've seen in other situations.
7:10
Speaker 1: We saw this in Mother and Manual Church, you know,
7:12
Speaker 1: over a decade ago, people trying in the face of violence,
7:16
Speaker 1: in the face of that kind of contemptuous action, hatred
7:21
Speaker 1: with a gun, to respond in some way that would
7:25
Speaker 1: allow us to see there's a way out of hatred.
7:27
Speaker 1: You don't have to return hatred with hatred.
7:29
Speaker 4: If a give to the perpetrators at a crime, I
7:31
Speaker 4: often wonder about that. Often I wonder if that is
7:34
Speaker 4: a real emotion or are they just doing that because
7:36
Speaker 4: they feel like that's what they need to do.
7:39
Speaker 1: Well, I think in your heart, you know, we all
7:41
Speaker 1: know the difference. We lie sometimes when we say what
7:45
Speaker 1: we think people want to hear. But I think there's
7:48
Speaker 1: also real evidence that many people have been able to
7:51
Speaker 1: transform hate and turn it. You know, like doctor King said,
7:54
Speaker 1: you know, the only thing that will, you know, defeat
7:57
Speaker 1: hate is love. And I think people understand at some
8:01
Speaker 1: level within themselves when they can find that it's not
8:05
Speaker 1: easy in the face of somebody treating you with contempt
8:08
Speaker 1: to return that contempt with with your principles, but without hatred.
8:13
Speaker 1: I mean, our point here is don't don't dim your principles,
8:17
Speaker 1: you know, don't don't don't be a centrist on everything.
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Speaker 1: Don't become you know like that. That's not the point
8:23
Speaker 1: of dignity. The point of dignity is to fight for
8:26
Speaker 1: your principles. We say, add one when you're fighting for
8:30
Speaker 1: your principles. Treat the person on the other side with dignity,
8:33
Speaker 1: and you will actually make a much better case for
8:35
Speaker 1: your principles when you don't treat the other person with contempt,
8:40
Speaker 1: when you treat them with dignity, but challenge fiercely, strongly, passionately,
8:46
Speaker 1: their programs, their plans, there the outcomes of their behavior.
8:50
Speaker 1: Like you said, you were so angry at what the
8:52
Speaker 1: person was doing, that doesn't have to be the same
8:56
Speaker 1: thing as being angry at the person. Uh, there's there's
8:59
Speaker 1: that kind and a sensitive separation. I think we can make.
9:03
Speaker 1: And this is what the poll is telling us. People want.
9:06
Speaker 1: You know, when we said why should we bother treating
9:09
Speaker 1: each other with dignity? You know what they said, kids
9:11
Speaker 1: are watching. Our children are watching. Wow, our children are
9:14
Speaker 1: watching you look at the mental health crisis and kids.
9:18
Speaker 1: If I'm fifteen, sixteen years old today and I see
9:21
Speaker 1: a country I don't trust, I see institutions I don't trust,
9:24
Speaker 1: I see people who threaten me. I see a future
9:28
Speaker 1: I can't understand. I see a job market I can't
9:32
Speaker 1: plan for. Why wouldn't I be Why wouldn't I have
9:36
Speaker 1: a mental health crisis? We have to reverse this because
9:39
Speaker 1: our kids are watching. They want to see something they
9:42
Speaker 1: can believe in. Every child does, and if we keep
9:47
Speaker 1: showing them nothing but hatred and contempt for each other,
9:50
Speaker 1: we're going to see these numbers get even worse. They're
9:52
Speaker 1: bad enough right now.
9:54
Speaker 4: And some other data that the Dignity Baramada showed with
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Speaker 4: thirty one percent of people say we actually treat people
10:01
Speaker 4: with dignity.
10:01
Speaker 2: What'd you think of that number?
10:03
Speaker 1: I think it's honest. That seemed very low. It's low,
10:07
Speaker 1: but it's true. I mean, if I sit in a room,
10:09
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether the room is super conservative or
10:12
Speaker 1: super progressive. And I ask people, last time you talk politics,
10:17
Speaker 1: I give them the dignity index, and I show them
10:19
Speaker 1: here's a one. A one is violence and hatred, A
10:22
Speaker 1: two is hatred, A three is disdain, you know, and
10:27
Speaker 1: a four is just I'm superior to you. So those
10:29
Speaker 1: are the scores hatred, disdain, violence, and superiority. I say,
10:36
Speaker 1: when you last talk politics, how would you score yourself
10:39
Speaker 1: were you? Did you use violent rhetoric, hateful rhetoric, disdainful rhetoric,
10:45
Speaker 1: or just superiority. Most people score themselves a two, which
10:48
Speaker 1: is hateful. When I speak when last time you talk
10:52
Speaker 1: to your friends, you were sitting around talking about what
10:55
Speaker 1: whoever was Trump or Schumer or whoever you know, the
10:58
Speaker 1: mayor whatever, what what kind of language? Most people rate themselves,
11:03
Speaker 1: They don't rate other They rate themselves a two or
11:07
Speaker 1: three at the bottom, towards the bottom of the scale.
11:10
Speaker 1: So this number in the barometer backs that up. We
11:13
Speaker 1: don't realize we are being as hateful as the people
11:15
Speaker 1: we're attacking. But when you ask people, I think they're
11:21
Speaker 1: pretty honest. Only thirty percent of us, thirty plus percent
11:23
Speaker 1: of us, think we treat each other other people with dignity.
11:26
Speaker 2: Shouldn't we hate the current system?
11:28
Speaker 1: Yeah?
11:28
Speaker 2: Or shouldn't we hate what's going on in this country
11:30
Speaker 2: right now?
11:30
Speaker 1: Can you hate the system or the program or the
11:33
Speaker 1: policy without hating the person? This is a question.
11:38
Speaker 2: Not right now?
11:39
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, especially when you have outspoken, like we
11:43
Speaker 7: hear things from a person every day almost you know
11:46
Speaker 7: what I'm saying, hateful things, Yeah, about other people, other
11:50
Speaker 7: groups of people. You know what I'm saying, people are
11:52
Speaker 7: not treating being treated humanely.
11:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
11:55
Speaker 4: I think it's actually it's crazy the time that I
11:57
Speaker 4: never thought about it. But I've also never thought about
12:00
Speaker 4: hating a particular politician are elected official. I think for
12:04
Speaker 4: some reason, it's easier to hate the system and the
12:08
Speaker 4: ideas of politicians than it is to hate the actual.
12:11
Speaker 1: Well, that's pretty sophisticated, honestly, that's I would I want
12:15
Speaker 1: to sound like silly, but that's advanced to be able
12:18
Speaker 1: to say I hate the way we allocate money for schools,
12:21
Speaker 1: or I hate the way we allocate money for law enforcement,
12:24
Speaker 1: I hate the way we allocate money for public works,
12:26
Speaker 1: or I hate the way we spend money on defense,
12:29
Speaker 1: or I hate the way we don't spend whatever it is.
12:31
Speaker 1: That's most people just say I hate Trump or I
12:34
Speaker 1: hate Biden. But you know, if all you do is
12:37
Speaker 1: hate Trump or hate Biden, you make an enemy for
12:40
Speaker 1: whatever your ideas are from everybody who loves Trump or
12:43
Speaker 1: who loves Biden.
12:44
Speaker 2: So you know, doesn't that matter at a time like this.
12:46
Speaker 1: Do we want to change them? I mean we I'm
12:50
Speaker 1: guessing most of your listeners, if not every single one,
12:53
Speaker 1: would prefer a different president. So that means you got
12:56
Speaker 1: to get fifty one percent of the vote for a
12:58
Speaker 1: different type of leader. Do we want to convince the people?
13:02
Speaker 1: I mean, we have people in this country, a lot
13:04
Speaker 1: of them who voted for Barack Obama and Donald Trump.
13:07
Speaker 1: Do you want to convince them to vote for a
13:10
Speaker 1: more progressive candidate. I don't think it's going to be
13:13
Speaker 1: effective to if one wants to convince them to vote
13:16
Speaker 1: for a more progressive candidate, to say how much you
13:19
Speaker 1: hate the candidate they voted for. That just creates tribal defensiveness.
13:24
Speaker 1: If I say I hate people that work in this studio,
13:26
Speaker 1: I hate everybody that works for you, Shark, all I
13:29
Speaker 1: do is make an enemy. If I say this one
13:31
Speaker 1: person has behaved in a way or something they said
13:35
Speaker 1: on the show yesterday or last week was really troubling
13:38
Speaker 1: to me, then I have at least a shot of
13:39
Speaker 1: winning you over because I'm actually engaging in a conversation
13:42
Speaker 1: that I think you might be open to listening to me.
13:46
Speaker 4: What if I say I hate this system that has
13:49
Speaker 4: put us in the current condition where people you know,
13:53
Speaker 4: can't afford just to make ends me can't afford, which.
13:56
Speaker 1: I would just say, tell me what part like, Tell
13:59
Speaker 1: me something that we can fix. Tell me something we
14:01
Speaker 1: can fix. Can we fix healthcare? I mean it's complicated.
14:05
Speaker 1: I'm sure maybe there's great ideas about it. Can we
14:07
Speaker 1: fix uh aff? Can we create housing?
14:11
Speaker 2: Yeah?
14:12
Speaker 1: So what's the solution there? I mean, I think to
14:14
Speaker 1: have a conversation about that. Do I hate the mayor
14:17
Speaker 1: because we don't have affordable housing? I mean I don't
14:20
Speaker 1: think it helps.
14:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't hate.
14:22
Speaker 4: I don't hate the one I can't hate the one
14:24
Speaker 4: individual because I know it's bigger than that one individual, right, right.
14:27
Speaker 1: But that's like I said that that that's why, honestly,
14:30
Speaker 1: that's why you you're able to bring so many people
14:33
Speaker 1: into the conversation, because I think you're able to sort
14:37
Speaker 1: parts of the country or parts of the system, or
14:39
Speaker 1: parts of policies that you find, you know, injust or
14:44
Speaker 1: or unacceptable, from hating individual people. And I think that's
14:50
Speaker 1: that's what the country is not doing well right now.
14:52
Speaker 7: I think, how do you think the TSA workers feel
14:56
Speaker 7: at airports? They say, do you think they should hate
15:00
Speaker 7: the system or hate the man that they hear, the
15:02
Speaker 7: president that they hear every day saying like pretty much
15:07
Speaker 7: she doesn't care about them, not getting about them not
15:10
Speaker 7: getting paid. In fact, he's gonna send ice, Well, he
15:13
Speaker 7: is paying to go to the airport to help CSA
15:17
Speaker 7: workers who are still expected to show up without getting paid, Like,
15:21
Speaker 7: do you expect them to hate the systems? Or can
15:24
Speaker 7: they hate the man in charge?
15:26
Speaker 2: Because they definitely hate not getting paid.
15:28
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing. When I was a kid,
15:31
Speaker 1: I don't know a bet you all at your dinner table,
15:32
Speaker 1: but my mother used to say, you're not allowed to
15:35
Speaker 1: use the word hate. I don't know if anybody else
15:38
Speaker 1: had that, but my mother said, you can call people
15:40
Speaker 1: like she I don't know. She came up with the
15:42
Speaker 1: name elephant ears. You can call someone elephant ears, but
15:44
Speaker 1: you can't say you hate them. That's a dirty word.
15:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, in my house too as well.
15:49
Speaker 7: Grown up.
15:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you heard the same thing. A lot
15:53
Speaker 1: of moms, a lot of our moms and grandmoms and
15:55
Speaker 1: dads and stuff gave that message. I don't think. I
15:59
Speaker 1: don't think that message was misguided. I think there are moments,
16:03
Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't tell you to listen to somebody
16:06
Speaker 1: who walks in here with a gun and starts shooting.
16:07
Speaker 1: It's not a good time for dignity. It's a time
16:10
Speaker 1: for safety. It's a time for emergency response. It's a
16:13
Speaker 1: time for protection. It's the time for maybe even retaliation
16:16
Speaker 1: if you can, if you can defend yourself. So the
16:19
Speaker 1: goal of this dignity conversation is not to say there's
16:22
Speaker 1: an absolute right and wrong in the way you treat
16:26
Speaker 1: each other. The goal is to say that when we
16:28
Speaker 1: see our own contempt, we almost always want to change
16:32
Speaker 1: it all. We want to do better. We want to
16:34
Speaker 1: do a little better, Like we don't want to be
16:37
Speaker 1: hateful people. Most people don't want that. They may feel it,
16:40
Speaker 1: but they would rather be able to transform the situation.
16:44
Speaker 1: The tsa worker you described, I think they'd rather figure
16:48
Speaker 1: out what, why the heck does the system not? Why
16:50
Speaker 1: can't we get paid? Why can't they pass a bill
16:53
Speaker 1: at the you know, why can't they? Republicans and Democrats agree,
16:57
Speaker 1: and I tell you the primary reason they don't agree
17:00
Speaker 1: is because they're so contemptuous of each other, because they
17:03
Speaker 1: hate each other, and they're using their hatred of each
17:06
Speaker 1: other to advance their own political agendas. I'm sorry to
17:09
Speaker 1: say I think that's true. I grew up in politics.
17:12
Speaker 1: I had senators, presidents of the United States, and my family.
17:16
Speaker 1: But today politicians, many of them are motivated as much
17:20
Speaker 1: by using issues for political advantage as they are for
17:23
Speaker 1: solving problems. You can hate the system, or you can
17:28
Speaker 1: say to your senator or your congressman, I want solutions.
17:31
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear how much you hate the
17:33
Speaker 1: other side. I want to hear how you're going to
17:34
Speaker 1: solve this problem.
17:35
Speaker 3: In certain instance, I do believe that you can hate somebody,
17:38
Speaker 3: and I feel like, in my opinion, it'll be okay, right,
17:42
Speaker 3: So I'll explain.
17:43
Speaker 2: It like this in certain cases.
17:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could dislike their policy, right, you could dislike
17:47
Speaker 3: the things that they're doing. But if somebody comes into
17:51
Speaker 3: my house and kills my family, I'm gonna.
17:53
Speaker 2: Hate that individual.
17:55
Speaker 3: And I'm not on a healing journey to the point
18:00
Speaker 3: where I say, well, you know what, I'm going to
18:01
Speaker 3: turn my other cheek or I'm going.
18:03
Speaker 2: To forgive them.
18:04
Speaker 3: I don't think so, you know, and I see people
18:06
Speaker 3: do it all the time. I think majority it is
18:08
Speaker 3: bull crap.
18:09
Speaker 2: Part of my friend biblical teachers, I think it's bull.
18:13
Speaker 3: Crap in my opinion, And I also do think and
18:14
Speaker 3: some of it is they do that because they feel
18:17
Speaker 3: like that's what they should do, But now do they
18:19
Speaker 3: believe it in their heart? I kind of find it
18:22
Speaker 3: hard to believe when you just took my whole family out,
18:25
Speaker 3: or you just did something to my child, or you
18:27
Speaker 3: just did something to my mother or father, or you know,
18:30
Speaker 3: when you see people in the church and somebody will
18:31
Speaker 3: come in to church and just shoot the.
18:33
Speaker 2: Whole church up.
18:34
Speaker 3: It's difficult to believe that because I feel like it
18:36
Speaker 3: allows you to open that up for something like that
18:39
Speaker 3: to happen.
18:39
Speaker 2: Again.
18:40
Speaker 3: Just my opinion when it comes to quote unquote hate. Now,
18:43
Speaker 3: when things with politics and things like that, yeah, I
18:45
Speaker 3: feel like people dislike policies. But if you're a hateful
18:48
Speaker 3: person and a nasty person, in my opinion, me saying
18:53
Speaker 3: I hate that person, it's not the same as a
18:56
Speaker 3: person doing evil things. You just don't like the fact
18:58
Speaker 3: that person is doing an evil job.
19:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can hate the devil.
19:02
Speaker 3: Is that mad saying I hate the devil?
19:04
Speaker 1: You know?
19:04
Speaker 3: I mean it's so I feel like when it comes
19:06
Speaker 3: to that type of it's certain things it's like you
19:09
Speaker 3: can't experience. I can't give everybody grace in my opinion,
19:12
Speaker 3: I'm not there yet, but you kill my family, I
19:14
Speaker 3: can't give you grace.
19:14
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
19:15
Speaker 3: I'll highlight the big man when I get there, But
19:17
Speaker 3: I just can't.
19:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you. I don't think it's always a fake.
19:23
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true.
19:24
Speaker 3: I just say all the time, I think sometimes I
19:26
Speaker 3: do feel that way.
19:27
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people aspire to be forgiving, even though
19:30
Speaker 1: in their hearts they aren't yet, and so they say
19:32
Speaker 1: they are, maybe in hopes of becoming what they the
19:36
Speaker 1: words they use. Sometimes people just lie and say I'm forgiving,
19:40
Speaker 1: and their harbor hatred and they don't care about the lie.
19:43
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of times people do move.
19:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen in my own family, my own family,
19:47
Speaker 1: we've had victory, you know, we've violence has taken people
19:50
Speaker 1: from my family.
19:52
Speaker 2: You know, this is can I say, hear your uncle? Yeah, sure,
19:55
Speaker 2: John Kennedy, of course Kennedy.
19:57
Speaker 1: So I grew up in a situuation where violence robbed
20:01
Speaker 1: us as children, of safety, of the health of our parents,
20:10
Speaker 1: of people we loved. And I've seen people struggle with
20:17
Speaker 1: that their whole life, you know. And I've seen people
20:20
Speaker 1: try to really hard to forgive so that they would
20:23
Speaker 1: be able to get the devil out from inside them.
20:26
Speaker 1: The anger, the hostility, the vitriol, the pain could be
20:32
Speaker 1: eased through the act of forgiveness. So sometimes maybe it's
20:36
Speaker 1: not even selfish, it's not even selfless, it's selfish to forgive,
20:41
Speaker 1: because that's where healing I think happens. But here's the thing,
20:47
Speaker 1: this is a conversation the country needs to be trying
20:50
Speaker 1: to have. I'm not here to tell you like I'm
20:53
Speaker 1: not a preacher. I'm not here to say this is
20:55
Speaker 1: the commandment. I'm here. I'm here to say I think
21:00
Speaker 1: seeing a new issue in the country and asking ourselves
21:04
Speaker 1: how we treat each other as an issue, I mean,
21:07
Speaker 1: what is you know, this is a conversation that has
21:11
Speaker 1: focused in many, many different moments in time on issues
21:14
Speaker 1: of race and culture and these kinds of things. What
21:17
Speaker 1: is racism if not institutionalized hatred for sure? Okay, So
21:24
Speaker 1: it's an institutionalization of the humiliation and demeaning and hatred
21:32
Speaker 1: of a group of people. So, you know, if we
21:35
Speaker 1: want to end it, we have to end hatred because
21:38
Speaker 1: at the surface, at the heart of it is hatred
21:42
Speaker 1: is a sense of superiority, is a sense of disdain
21:46
Speaker 1: for people that come from a different certain background or
21:49
Speaker 1: certain skin color. As crazy as it is, that's what
21:52
Speaker 1: we's that's the reality. So I just want to I
21:56
Speaker 1: want to talk systems. I want to talk house, I
21:58
Speaker 1: want to talk healthcare, I want to talk education. That's
22:01
Speaker 1: my background. I want to talk all those things. I
22:03
Speaker 1: also want to talk about this as a country. And
22:07
Speaker 1: that's what the Baromra says.
22:08
Speaker 3: So where does the hate?
22:11
Speaker 2: How do we stop hate? Right?
22:12
Speaker 3: Especially in really good question now, I feel like our
22:15
Speaker 3: community has seen probably one of the worst hate right.
22:17
Speaker 2: I can tell you from my.
22:18
Speaker 3: Dad serving in Vietnam, him and the troops coming, you know,
22:22
Speaker 3: going to a restaurant, the white troops going to a restaurant, he.
22:24
Speaker 2: Has to sit outside.
22:25
Speaker 3: Right, that's hate from built up. He will never forget that.
22:28
Speaker 3: He talks about that all the time. You know, how
22:31
Speaker 3: he feels towards people because those are the same people
22:33
Speaker 3: he fought for this country for and it looked at
22:36
Speaker 3: him differently when he got off that barret, you know
22:37
Speaker 3: what I mean. So it's like that's embedded in his
22:40
Speaker 3: life and how he feels. So he always looks at
22:43
Speaker 3: white people like that because he remembers that. He remembers
22:46
Speaker 3: taking a bus and sit in the back. He remembers
22:48
Speaker 3: being a bus driving him, throwing things at him. He
22:50
Speaker 3: remember those things, so that hate is embedded because those
22:53
Speaker 3: people hated him.
22:56
Speaker 1: I h you know, as a country or as a
22:59
Speaker 1: person who's who's who believes in this country. It breaks
23:02
Speaker 1: my heart. I know it's true that happened, and it happens, right,
23:07
Speaker 1: It's not just what your dad experience. You know, I
23:10
Speaker 1: don't have to say it on this show. That kind
23:12
Speaker 1: of behavior still happened, and it's a it's a stain
23:19
Speaker 1: on our country, and it's a stain on me as
23:22
Speaker 1: a as a white man. And I you know, I'll
23:26
Speaker 1: come back to the question you asked, which is how
23:28
Speaker 1: do we how do we end at And you know,
23:31
Speaker 1: there's a lot of theories on how you end hatred.
23:33
Speaker 1: One of them is you kill people who are hateful,
23:35
Speaker 1: that's war. One of them is you canceled, destroy, demean,
23:40
Speaker 1: humiliate people who are hateful. That's prison, or cancel culture.
23:46
Speaker 1: And you know those things, you know, like fra All
23:49
Speaker 1: Williams said, after you know, I use a great I
23:52
Speaker 1: think it's a great quote from fra All Williams. He
23:54
Speaker 1: just said it on a daytime talk show about eight
23:56
Speaker 1: years ago. He said, you know, you have to choose
23:58
Speaker 1: what side you're on. Mm hmm uh So what side
24:02
Speaker 1: of what what? You know? He his his language was,
24:05
Speaker 1: I'm gonna choose empathy, I'm going to choose choose inclusion.
24:08
Speaker 1: I'm gonna choose love for everybody, just wishing people the
24:11
Speaker 1: best as a way of transforming hatred. Uh, I don't
24:17
Speaker 1: know that it always works, not maybe not in the
24:19
Speaker 1: short term, but in the long term. I think you
24:23
Speaker 1: know the thing, you know, like if you're a teacher
24:25
Speaker 1: and you go to you're in the playground, you're in
24:27
Speaker 1: the cafeteria, and there's a fight going on. You know what,
24:29
Speaker 1: everybody says, he started it. Of course he started it.
24:34
Speaker 1: And at a certain point like who, I mean, it's
24:40
Speaker 1: important who started it? But who's going to stop it?
24:44
Speaker 1: Who's going to stop it?
24:45
Speaker 2: Who's going to stop it?
24:46
Speaker 1: Who's going to stop the behavior that that that damaged
24:50
Speaker 1: and demean and humiliated your dad. Who's going to stop it?
24:53
Speaker 1: And how are we going to stop it?
24:54
Speaker 2: And what's the atonement for it?
24:56
Speaker 1: And what's and what's the what's the reconciliation, you know,
24:58
Speaker 1: the truth and reconciliation they did in South Africa, what's
25:01
Speaker 1: the reconciliation process? What's the you know, uh, you know,
25:04
Speaker 1: in schools, we try to get rid of punitive discipline
25:08
Speaker 1: and create restorative practices so that people can learn how
25:11
Speaker 1: to make amends for things they've done wrong to kids
25:15
Speaker 1: at four, six, eight, ten, twelve, fourteen, sixteen years old
25:17
Speaker 1: can learn the process of undoing the pain through making
25:22
Speaker 1: some kind of restorative practice, through apology, through rebuilding trust, slowly, slowly,
25:29
Speaker 1: trying to start on a new foot.
25:30
Speaker 3: But that's a tall order. When everything that you said
25:33
Speaker 3: is it feels like it's dialed back, right, you say, well,
25:36
Speaker 3: how do we stop it? When in twenty twenty six,
25:40
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, they're pulling books out of schools, which
25:44
Speaker 3: is African American legacies. Right, we have all these amazing
25:49
Speaker 3: black entrepreneurs in all these different stores, right, and they
25:52
Speaker 3: wouldn't be in those stores but they would have to force.
25:55
Speaker 3: And those products are selling amazing, so that means it
25:56
Speaker 3: was the right, the right thing to do. They pull
25:59
Speaker 3: back the Now all those people that were selling taken
26:02
Speaker 3: out of the stores. So how do you do that
26:04
Speaker 3: when it feels like is dialed back? In twenty twenty six,
26:07
Speaker 3: when things are supposed to be getting better and was
26:09
Speaker 3: supposed to be moving on in dignity and all that,
26:11
Speaker 3: but it seems like every year it gets worse, it
26:14
Speaker 3: gets worse, And how do you expect people not to
26:17
Speaker 3: hate the system that's making it.
26:19
Speaker 1: Worse, don't. I don't think anything that you said there
26:23
Speaker 1: is hateful. I think what you said is there's laws
26:26
Speaker 1: and rules that are unfair, that are unjust. I mean,
26:31
Speaker 1: I happen to agree with you. Somebody else might sittor
26:34
Speaker 1: and say I don't agree. I don't like affirmative action,
26:36
Speaker 1: you know, or I love affirmative action. I happen to
26:41
Speaker 1: agree with you. But I don't think what you said
26:42
Speaker 1: was hateful. I think what you said is there's policies
26:46
Speaker 1: that are damaging the lives of Americans. Hard working, caring, smart,
26:51
Speaker 1: creative Americans are being hurt by policies being enacted by
26:56
Speaker 1: this administration. Game one. That's how it Coversation about it
27:01
Speaker 1: is DEI gone. I mean maybe in some places people
27:05
Speaker 1: are changing their language and stuff like that, but is
27:08
Speaker 1: this country no longer committed? I mean, in the special
27:11
Speaker 1: Olympics world, we call ourselves the Inclusion Revolution. I that's
27:16
Speaker 1: the eye of DEI inclusion revolution. We go all schools
27:21
Speaker 1: all over the country trying to help people see that
27:25
Speaker 1: this child you thought was hopeless and helpless and a victim,
27:29
Speaker 1: and somebody you wanted out of your school, out of
27:32
Speaker 1: your classroom, out of your place of business, belongs people
27:35
Speaker 1: are still welcoming it. So I think, I think the
27:38
Speaker 1: heart of the country is open. I mean, I think
27:41
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a possibility in the future. Maybe
27:44
Speaker 1: I'm naive. You know, you might say I'm naive. I've
27:46
Speaker 1: been accused of that before, but I think, you know,
27:50
Speaker 1: our history tells us that leaders can rise up and
27:53
Speaker 1: can change the narrative for us and can bring us
27:56
Speaker 1: greater dignity. We've seen this in other countries when there
27:59
Speaker 1: have been governments that have appeared totalitarian or if appeared authoritarian,
28:07
Speaker 1: and leaders rise up sometimes from the people and they say, no,
28:10
Speaker 1: we want a different path, or do we want to
28:14
Speaker 1: just retaliate and do revenge because they started it? And
28:18
Speaker 1: you know what, they say, the guy before me started it.
28:22
Speaker 1: So we're gonna end up in either a revenge cycle
28:25
Speaker 1: or a healing cycle. And maybe there's a little bit
28:28
Speaker 1: of us in each one. There's a little bit of
28:30
Speaker 1: us that wants healing and a little bit of us
28:32
Speaker 1: that wants revenge. Okay, game on, let's have that conversation.
28:36
Speaker 4: This is anter other conversations because you know, Endy's not wrong,
28:38
Speaker 4: You're not wrong either. And you know, like you said
28:40
Speaker 4: in light History, I think about like Martin Luther King
28:42
Speaker 4: Junior record, there's evidence that what you're talking about his
28:44
Speaker 4: work them. Okay, Junior always talked about, you know, the
28:47
Speaker 4: power of love, right.
28:48
Speaker 2: He talked about how he.
28:49
Speaker 4: Decided to stick with love because he knows that love
28:51
Speaker 4: is ultimately the only answer to human kind problems, which
28:55
Speaker 4: you still had to have a leader like your uncle,
28:58
Speaker 4: John F. Kennedy, who who understood that, who felt that,
29:01
Speaker 4: who had compassion for what other people were going through.
29:03
Speaker 4: So I wonder was that message was that what made
29:06
Speaker 4: your uncle move the way he moved.
29:09
Speaker 1: I mean, I think so, I think. Look, he grew
29:12
Speaker 1: up with a sister who had an intellectual disability. So
29:15
Speaker 1: take this. You know, in nineteen twenty, to have an
29:18
Speaker 1: intellectual disability met you got put an institution for life,
29:22
Speaker 1: locked up, parents told give up your kid, put it
29:27
Speaker 1: in his you know, half the time, no clothing. So
29:30
Speaker 1: that's what that's what would have happened to his sister.
29:32
Speaker 1: But his sister stayed home. My grandparents made the most
29:35
Speaker 1: important decision I think of their lives with just to
29:37
Speaker 1: keep their child with a disability at home. So that
29:41
Speaker 1: young man, John Little John Kennedy grew up with a
29:45
Speaker 1: sister of the world hated and he loved, and so
29:50
Speaker 1: he knew something was wrong with the world because he
29:52
Speaker 1: knew his sister was beautiful and competent and caring and
29:55
Speaker 1: funny and playful and socially great, and she couldn't go
30:00
Speaker 1: to school. There was no school literally, So.
30:03
Speaker 2: He had compassion for marginal lives communities.
30:06
Speaker 1: I think I think he learned it at the at
30:07
Speaker 1: his own kitchen table, just like a lot of us
30:10
Speaker 1: learned it at our own kitchen tables. And so the
30:12
Speaker 1: question is, can you know, can we can we create
30:14
Speaker 1: a viral movement. That's what doctor King did. He's he
30:17
Speaker 1: awakened people to the dignity. I mean, that's what that's
30:20
Speaker 1: what the that's what the march was. That's that's what
30:22
Speaker 1: the sit in protests were. I'm sitting here because I
30:27
Speaker 1: own my own dignity. I'm not getting up from this seat. No,
30:31
Speaker 1: Miss Park said, I Am not moving. And all of
30:34
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, not all of a sudden. That's
30:36
Speaker 1: that's the wrong way to put it. But over time
30:39
Speaker 1: hearts began to soften. If you read that, if you want,
30:42
Speaker 1: if you want the best treatise in American history on dignity,
30:46
Speaker 1: in my view, just my personal opinion, reread. I know
30:49
Speaker 1: everybody's read it, but reread after this conversation the letter
30:52
Speaker 1: from a Birmingham City jail. Read the long version. Don't
30:54
Speaker 1: read the short version. The people. Sometimes you see it
30:57
Speaker 1: on the internet. You get the three paragraphs, not three
30:59
Speaker 1: paragraph It's like five thousand words. And he fiercely challenges
31:06
Speaker 1: the bigotry and the segregationists and the accommodationists of mostly
31:12
Speaker 1: religious leaders, but find in there a hateful word towards
31:20
Speaker 1: I was talking to this guy the other day. He
31:23
Speaker 1: runs the one of the big museums in Atlanta, and
31:27
Speaker 1: his grandfather was one of those white ministers in Birmingham
31:31
Speaker 1: who doctor King was writing to in that Birmingham and
31:34
Speaker 1: he I haven't dug into this much, but he said,
31:38
Speaker 1: you know, that letter changed my grandfather's life. And the
31:44
Speaker 1: grandfather is still alive. So I'm guessing a couple of
31:46
Speaker 1: those preachers that he was writing to those ministers, he
31:49
Speaker 1: was writing to are still living. So I I just
31:54
Speaker 1: think that's we got a better shot that way. I
31:57
Speaker 1: just wonder if that's not quick, you know, taking somebody
32:00
Speaker 1: out is quicker.
32:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just wonder if that will work with just
32:04
Speaker 4: with a regime implementing authoritarian strategy.
32:06
Speaker 2: That's all I just wonder. And also I wonder if
32:09
Speaker 2: it's even about the regime.
32:10
Speaker 4: Maybe it's just about us, maybe us as people, because
32:12
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like the greatest you know, political
32:16
Speaker 4: institution in this country.
32:18
Speaker 2: Is we the people.
32:19
Speaker 1: That's it, right, That's right.
32:20
Speaker 4: But maybe it starts with us having dignity for each other.
32:23
Speaker 4: Maybe we need to be the body that you know
32:25
Speaker 4: comes down.
32:26
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's what that's what the data says.
32:28
Speaker 1: I mean, in the end of the day, I'm here
32:29
Speaker 1: because there's new data, and the data says people want that,
32:33
Speaker 1: and we don't have to wait for the president. But
32:36
Speaker 1: let's be clear, hateful politicians survive and thrive when they
32:40
Speaker 1: tap in to the hate in us on both sides. Now,
32:45
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's morally equivalent on both sides,
32:47
Speaker 1: but I'm saying the tactics are sometimes equivalent. Hatred on
32:51
Speaker 1: one side is not necessarily better than hatred on the
32:54
Speaker 1: other side, even if the cause might be better on
32:57
Speaker 1: one side or the other. So I think people are
32:59
Speaker 1: starving to hear a conversation like that. I mean, I'm
33:02
Speaker 1: gett I hope people's like, wow, that's interesting. I agree
33:05
Speaker 1: with him. No, I don't agree with him. No, maybe
33:07
Speaker 1: we should try it there. Maybe we shouldn't try it there.
33:09
Speaker 1: Maybe I could have said that differently. That's what kids
33:12
Speaker 1: when I present this stuff, invariably kids say, you know what,
33:15
Speaker 1: I put a post up. Yes, I'm gonna take it down.
33:19
Speaker 1: I attacked. And kids see this, Kids see the attacks,
33:23
Speaker 1: the vicious. You know, you're disgusting, you jerk, you're hopeless,
33:27
Speaker 1: you're ugly. You know. This is what kids are seeing
33:30
Speaker 1: at ten, twelve, fourteen years old. And when they hear
33:34
Speaker 1: that there's another way to do this, they almost all
33:37
Speaker 1: of them. I'm telling you, it's amazing. I'm talking to
33:39
Speaker 1: assemblies five, six, seven oundred kids. They almost always I'm
33:42
Speaker 1: going to take a post down I put up yesterday.
33:44
Speaker 2: Wow.
33:45
Speaker 7: There are actually like the streamers that categorize rage bait,
33:52
Speaker 7: it's called rage bait. They do nothing but bait people
33:55
Speaker 7: to be angry. They say things they could be not
33:58
Speaker 7: just racist things, but just anything to get people riled up.
34:02
Speaker 7: Like that's an actual category on this show.
34:04
Speaker 1: It's a business that you know, Amanda Ripley calls them
34:07
Speaker 1: conflict entrepreneursh oh, I like that, you know, and they're
34:12
Speaker 1: just out there trying to get us furious. Yeah, so
34:17
Speaker 1: that you go to you you have to go to
34:18
Speaker 1: your therapists, Like God, I can't hate this mother. I
34:21
Speaker 1: hate this mother. I can't stand it. Because you've been
34:25
Speaker 1: more often than not, you've been caught by rage bait. Yeah,
34:28
Speaker 1: and you've been. You've been. You've seen the conflict entrepreneurs,
34:32
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes like I said, I had this
34:35
Speaker 1: focused group with seventh graders out in eighth graders in
34:38
Speaker 1: Des Moines, Iowa's a couple of years ago. I was
34:41
Speaker 1: talking about bullying and contempt and what's it like in
34:43
Speaker 1: your school. The kids, well young girls, said, you know,
34:47
Speaker 1: we don't have much bullying in the school. So I
34:48
Speaker 1: asked another questions like when you do, do the teachers care? Yeah,
34:52
Speaker 1: the teachers care. I said, well, what about you in
34:54
Speaker 1: the peer groups when there's bullies? She says, that's a
34:57
Speaker 1: third question you asked me about bullying. I'm telling you
34:59
Speaker 1: we do not have have a bullying problem. Says you
35:02
Speaker 1: want to find bullies, go look at the adults. Wow,
35:09
Speaker 1: in ties and suits and boardrooms and halls of congress.
35:16
Speaker 1: That's what she said. She said, When I go home,
35:18
Speaker 1: I see my mom watching TV. That's where the bullies are.
35:22
Speaker 1: Bullies aren't in my school.
35:23
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
35:25
Speaker 1: So the kids know that it's us. And again I'm
35:30
Speaker 1: not saying this is the absolute you know, right and wrong.
35:34
Speaker 1: I'm saying, when you start to see like the map
35:37
Speaker 1: in your mind, like you were just describing to me,
35:39
Speaker 1: this map in your mind when someone comes in and
35:42
Speaker 1: takes the life of your children, your family, and how
35:45
Speaker 1: you would move from being a maybe a peaceful or
35:50
Speaker 1: they're a happy person, down down down into the descent
35:54
Speaker 1: of hatred and venom and retaliation. And that that's a
35:58
Speaker 1: map we've all known, and there's a map that lets
36:03
Speaker 1: us move up, you know. And the steps we can
36:05
Speaker 1: go through, and the healing we can go through, and
36:07
Speaker 1: the therapy we can go through, and the faith we
36:09
Speaker 1: can manage and the trust we can build. You know,
36:12
Speaker 1: we all have different solutions. The music we can listen to,
36:18
Speaker 1: I think that's a good conversation, like how do we
36:21
Speaker 1: move up and how do we get the you know,
36:24
Speaker 1: the rage bait out of our system. I mean if
36:27
Speaker 1: you said, have a cup of poison in the morning,
36:30
Speaker 1: so that's not good for you, but we consume a
36:33
Speaker 1: whole dose of rage bait and that's not good for
36:37
Speaker 1: you either. That's even in my view, I mean depends
36:40
Speaker 1: on what the point. It's almost worse. The data says
36:45
Speaker 1: people understand that me and me had a question.
36:48
Speaker 6: Well we were talking, you were talking earlier, and I'll
36:51
Speaker 6: bring it back to rage bait. Yeah, we have our
36:54
Speaker 6: President of the United States basically rage bating us every
36:57
Speaker 6: single day. I mean, he recently just said he was
37:00
Speaker 6: happy that Robert Muehler, you know, was dead right. So
37:05
Speaker 6: how do we how do we continue to process that
37:09
Speaker 6: when every day we continue to hear things like that
37:13
Speaker 6: coming from the top.
37:15
Speaker 1: I don't have a perfect answer for you there. I
37:17
Speaker 1: tell you what I do. I limit my intake because
37:21
Speaker 1: some of that is not news anymore than I would
37:25
Speaker 1: watch a ku Klux Klan website. I don't I don't
37:28
Speaker 1: go there. I don't mean it's not happening, but it's
37:32
Speaker 1: not important to me. So I think a lot of
37:35
Speaker 1: people in schools, we're doing this. Now, limit your intake.
37:38
Speaker 1: Don't click on everything that says something that you think
37:41
Speaker 1: is outrageous, not because you know you want to live
37:45
Speaker 1: in a in a in a fantasy world, but because
37:48
Speaker 1: you want to limit the poison going into your body.
37:50
Speaker 1: And sometimes that's all it is. Sometimes we're just spinning
37:53
Speaker 1: on poison. So one thing is limit your intake. A
37:57
Speaker 1: second thing is to figure out how to process and
38:00
Speaker 1: manage your anger and channel it in the things that
38:04
Speaker 1: will make a difference. Because just retaliating that that post
38:08
Speaker 1: is offensive or hateful of whatever. I think what a
38:13
Speaker 1: lot of people want to do is figure out how
38:14
Speaker 1: to create an alternative.
38:17
Speaker 6: And to your point, I think a lot of people
38:18
Speaker 6: are doing that. We have the no Kings protests right, yeah,
38:21
Speaker 6: coming up, or a lot of people are pulling together
38:24
Speaker 6: to fight back.
38:25
Speaker 7: And to say that this is not okay.
38:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:28
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are. And I just hope,
38:30
Speaker 1: you know, the next round of political action doesn't begin
38:34
Speaker 1: with no I mean, no Kings, I get it, yeah,
38:38
Speaker 1: but I'm hoping the next round of political action begins
38:41
Speaker 1: with what we want? Yeah, what do we want? We want?
38:45
Speaker 1: We want a country where people treat I mean, look,
38:49
Speaker 1: maybe AI is coming for our jobs. I don't know.
38:51
Speaker 1: You know, maybe maybe nuclear weapons are coming for our lives.
38:55
Speaker 1: I don't know. But in the meantime, we have three
38:58
Speaker 1: hundred plus million people in this We got a lot
39:01
Speaker 1: of pain in our past and in our present. We
39:04
Speaker 1: got a lot of anxiety in our children and our families.
39:07
Speaker 1: There's one group of people that can do something about it.
39:09
Speaker 1: That's us. I think it's a good place to start.
39:13
Speaker 1: So now that we have this data, what do we
39:15
Speaker 1: do with it. I know, you got the website dignity
39:18
Speaker 1: dot us. Dignity dot us check out you can check
39:21
Speaker 1: out the data there. We have a series of training
39:24
Speaker 1: programs we're doing with businesses. We've trained like thirty thousand
39:28
Speaker 1: employees in companies that want more dignity in their leaders,
39:33
Speaker 1: in their problem solving, in their team building, and we're
39:36
Speaker 1: getting great results from that. We have a partnership with
39:41
Speaker 1: the National Governors Association try to get governors. You know,
39:44
Speaker 1: we're not at the level of the federal government, but
39:46
Speaker 1: the states are really important and how our governor's lead
39:50
Speaker 1: is often you know, a big part of our daily life.
39:53
Speaker 1: So we got a lot of governors, governors like Wes Moore,
39:56
Speaker 1: Josh Shapiro, Spencer Cox, Kevin Stitt who are joining us,
40:00
Speaker 1: Jared Poulis who are joining us and saying I'm committing
40:03
Speaker 1: to leading with dignity. So we're working with politicians to
40:05
Speaker 1: try to train them in the skills of dignity, and
40:09
Speaker 1: we're working with schools. And here's the newest one. We
40:12
Speaker 1: haven't really gotten going on this, but we've had a
40:14
Speaker 1: lot of requests from faith leaders. You know why, because
40:18
Speaker 1: they say they're trapped in hating other faith leaders. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
40:27
Speaker 1: and they have hatred in their congress. Why would they
40:30
Speaker 1: hate these other like well that you see progressive faith
40:34
Speaker 1: leaders who see these white men, what's that.
40:35
Speaker 2: You get more time than Offers and me on today?
40:38
Speaker 1: Maybe, but maybe it's just they see the violation of
40:41
Speaker 1: their principles. Somebody claiming to be a Christian who is
40:45
Speaker 1: you know, pro immigrant, something claiming to be a Christian
40:48
Speaker 1: who is pro white nationalists, and people go, I can't
40:51
Speaker 1: that person's ah, I hate that guy. And so the
40:55
Speaker 1: breakdown in the faith based community. And let's be honest.
40:59
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm a person of faith, but faith
41:01
Speaker 1: is you know, saved my life, but it's also been
41:04
Speaker 1: a source of a lot of hatred over the years.
41:07
Speaker 1: So we have people in the community of believers who
41:11
Speaker 1: haven't quite figured out how to answer the question we're
41:14
Speaker 1: asking ourselves is, which is when we see things that
41:16
Speaker 1: we find unacceptable, unjust, how can we respond with love?
41:21
Speaker 1: Can we do what doctor King said? It's not easy.
41:24
Speaker 1: Even people who preach it can't necessarily do it. So
41:27
Speaker 1: we have like a whole skills framework, Charlotte. You know,
41:30
Speaker 1: you can show you how to be a better listener,
41:32
Speaker 1: show you how to be more curious, show you how
41:35
Speaker 1: to stand up for your principles without dehumanizing other people.
41:38
Speaker 1: So we're building a little toolkit to try to Yeah,
41:42
Speaker 1: you know.
41:42
Speaker 6: To your point the protests in Minnesota with the.
41:45
Speaker 1: Pastor exactly, Yeah, I mean you saw this and a
41:49
Speaker 1: lot of those people were faith based. You know, had Lutherans,
41:51
Speaker 1: you had Catholics, you had a lot of people have
41:53
Speaker 1: other different and a lot of people who weren't faith based,
41:55
Speaker 1: and a lot of what happened there, and you know,
41:58
Speaker 1: it's not an it doesn't excuse any of the things
42:01
Speaker 1: that happened there, but a lot of what happened was
42:03
Speaker 1: people stopped. People saw the dignity in the protesters they
42:07
Speaker 1: were They felt like Americans. And I think even even
42:12
Speaker 1: the President said, wait a minute, that that dignity. You
42:16
Speaker 1: can't beat that. People see that, that that's let's let's
42:20
Speaker 1: let's let's change course here a little bit.
42:23
Speaker 2: So dignity dot us. You want them to go there?
42:26
Speaker 1: And what I want them to go there? I want
42:28
Speaker 1: them to download the Dignity Index. I want them to
42:31
Speaker 1: uh to invite us to come and work with your schools,
42:35
Speaker 1: your your school boards. I tell you that's as another
42:37
Speaker 1: place we get a lot of interest because people come
42:40
Speaker 1: to the school board ready for for you know, ready
42:43
Speaker 1: for war. How dare you you know they are attacking
42:46
Speaker 1: the school board members. There's been violence in these so
42:49
Speaker 1: we you know, how do we have a discussion about
42:51
Speaker 1: our textbooks? How do we have a discussion about the
42:53
Speaker 1: curriculum without hatred. That's another area where so we want
42:57
Speaker 1: people to get get involved, join the dignity movement, be
43:00
Speaker 1: a part of a movement that's about dignity. I want
43:02
Speaker 1: this show to have a weekly episode. Doesn't have to
43:05
Speaker 1: be with me, uh, somebody reporting on dignity and contempt.
43:09
Speaker 1: You could do this, I don't. I can't pick who
43:12
Speaker 1: would who would be my choice for a reporter on this,
43:15
Speaker 1: But take take like once a week, take three speeches
43:18
Speaker 1: or three sections of quotes and score them. Let people listen,
43:22
Speaker 1: Let people chime in, Let people voice what they How
43:25
Speaker 1: could you have said this differently? How could how could
43:29
Speaker 1: you rewrite this tweet that Tim Shauver put out and
43:33
Speaker 1: you know we determined it was you know, it was
43:36
Speaker 1: so hateful, and let's have a discussion about it. I
43:39
Speaker 1: think people, I think your listeners would really be fascinated
43:43
Speaker 1: because it's it's first of all, it's a little bit fun.
43:46
Speaker 1: I mean we do this all the time with kids.
43:48
Speaker 1: Score this social post, score that one with using this
43:51
Speaker 1: scale we have, and so kids like it. They can
43:54
Speaker 1: score the Gettysburg address, they can score the I Have
43:58
Speaker 1: a Dream speech. They can score so Journal Truth. They
44:00
Speaker 1: can score George Washington, they can score Thomas Jeffson, they
44:03
Speaker 1: can score the Declaration of Independence. It's fun.
44:06
Speaker 4: Okay, let's call it before you go score this right, Yeah,
44:08
Speaker 4: this is Brooks Pottageyer.
44:10
Speaker 2: He's an ambuilt, an built and what's.
44:12
Speaker 4: The word, evangelical pastor who has been described as pete
44:16
Speaker 4: Hexp's closest spiritual advisor. He said this, he said, first
44:20
Speaker 4: and foremost, we prayed a man like this would be
44:22
Speaker 4: cut to the heart.
44:24
Speaker 2: He said. He puts Tallarico in the.
44:25
Speaker 4: Category of public enemies are those you are not called
44:29
Speaker 4: the love.
44:29
Speaker 2: This is where you have.
44:30
Speaker 4: Impractatory, imprecatory storms. This is where you pray strongly. The
44:35
Speaker 4: psalmist is not shy. God destroy them, make them his
44:39
Speaker 4: dung on the ground.
44:40
Speaker 2: I pray that God kills him.
44:42
Speaker 4: Talking about James Talerico to pat he said, ultimately that
44:45
Speaker 4: means killing his heart and raising him up to new
44:47
Speaker 4: life in Christ.
44:49
Speaker 2: How do you rank that?
44:50
Speaker 1: That's the one that's the lowest it can go. Your
44:57
Speaker 1: your humanity has doesn't matter. You should be destroyed. So
45:02
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a one. Now, if that guy was
45:05
Speaker 1: sitting here, he'd give you all the justifications for it,
45:07
Speaker 1: but it's still a one, and he would say something
45:10
Speaker 1: like that guy started it. You know that that's dangerous.
45:13
Speaker 1: So look, I think that's a one. All I can
45:15
Speaker 1: say is there's better ways to make that point, whatever
45:17
Speaker 1: point he's trying to make. I assume he doesn't like
45:19
Speaker 1: tall Rico because if.
45:21
Speaker 2: You want somebody to die, what's the better way to see?
45:23
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I wish you a beautiful afterlife.
45:34
Speaker 1: In the in the in with the angels and the saints.
45:37
Speaker 6: You know.
45:39
Speaker 2: Us.
45:40
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you for breakfast club.
45:44
Speaker 3: Good morning, good morning, every day a week ago, breakfast Club.
45:50
Speaker 2: You don't finish the