Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "ALL ROADS ARE LEADING HERE" WITH MMA's ZAC PAUGA

Transcript

"ALL ROADS ARE LEADING HERE" WITH MMA's ZAC PAUGA · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Warning, due to some language and subject matter, listen to discretion is devised.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your life is a story of turn.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: You are always leaving one.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: With an undefeated record in the world.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me on the podcast to be able to elevation fight team member.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Zach Howe, we're gonna talk about wins and losses outside of the ring, big life transition, and where he plans to go next.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is caught on the mic.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Zach the Ripper calling in from Colorado.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell are you, man?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, dude, thanks for doing this, Joe.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm just doing my research in preparation for this episode.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I just got more and more excited as the days built up.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So uh you have a quite an interesting story, and uh, I'm really looking forward to sharing it, and I'm sure everybody that's listening right now is looking forward to hearing it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been I've definitely taken a different route to MMA than than most guys have.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what makes your story exciting.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So without any further ado, let's introduce who you are and uh what your background is.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, my name's Zach Pone.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Denver, Colorado.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh like most other boys, I grew up playing football, and that was my main sport.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I played sports every every season, though.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was not a football specialist or anything like that.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I wrestled my entire youth and and played a sport every season.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was never not playing sports.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: There was no internet back then, so that's just what my parents did to get me out of the house and keep me occupied.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I I did have a successful football career, you know, in high school.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was four times all state offense and defense.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Ended up going to the uh Cartoon State University.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I went there as a linebacker, but switched to offense my freshman year, and um ended up being I redshirted like most people do in college, but then I ended up being a four-year starter, started as a freshman.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: They called it an H back, it's like a tight end running back combination.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know, loved it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Lived, lived the dream.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Played Division I football, had a full ride scholarship, got signed to the Texans as a free agent, uh, and it was hard, you know?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot harder than I think any everyone wants to play in the NFL, and then you get there, and all of a sudden your your passion becomes your job, and you're playing football for eight hours a day.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're watching film in the morning, you're watching film at night, and I was playing fullback, but I wasn't even actually playing fullback.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to make a team playing special teams, and I hadn't played special teams since I was in fifth grade because I've been a starter my entire career.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was a rough go and I got cut, and that's just that's the business.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I bounced around for a little bit in the league and just couldn't stick anywhere.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I uh you know ended up back at home and just happened that the uh first fully professional rugby league, uh there was a team in in Denver in Glendale, Colorado.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And my brother was already playing for the team.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my my dad's a Samoan immigrant, so we grew up watching rugby.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Rugby was the the sport of our family.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I jumped on that, played professional rugby, won the championship, won the first ever fully professional rugby championship here in the States, was having a good, really good career and enjoying it, and then uh I had a family.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I got married, had a child, and needed to make some some money, some a little bit more money.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Rugby is uh has options to make a lot of money, but I wasn't making enough to support a family.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of just walked away from athletics.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I started, I was a police officer, went into law enforcement, and um I'd always been a fan of of MMA and and fighting, and like I said, I grew up uh wrestling.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I just joined Easton Training Center, which was like 15 minutes away from my house, just to do jujitsu and hit the heavy bag every once in a while, stay in shape.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had no aspirations of fighting at this time, but it happened to be this that's where Elevation Fight Team trains.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there's not a whole lot of uh big guys when it comes to MMA for whatever reason.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just very light in the upper weight classes, and they just needed someone to roll with with Curtis, with Curtis Blades, like they just didn't have enough big bodies for him to roll with, and they saw me on the map.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't know any, they didn't know I was a football player, they didn't know anything about me.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: They just saw a big guy, and we're like, hey, can you come roll with Curtis?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, sure, I'll I'll do it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a little you know crazy in that aspect.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone who steps into a cage to fight is, and I so I just jumped in there, and I'm like, I don't want to, I'm not gonna pretend like Curtis didn't absolutely destroy me, but afterwards, I was like, you know what?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: If that's the number three heavyweight in the world, I think I could probably do this, and just got completely addicted at after that.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um Curtis's coaches, uh his main coaches, Cody Donovan and Vinny Lopez, really took me under their wing and and and helped foster my growth as an MMA fighter.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh not long after Alistair Overheim joined the team and and we became really close and good friends, and he helped me a lot.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been amazing since then.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we've just been going, fighting, unfeated, you know, five amateur fights undefeated, four professional fights undefeated now, and hoping to keep rolling.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: That is phenomenal.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So backing up to the rugby thing, why do you think it's not a bigger sport in the States than what it is?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you exactly why.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So rugby is a 40-minute half, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's no timeouts, there's there's no stops, there's no room for commercials.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that that is exactly why rugby cannot get a foothold in America.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, that's so true.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I never I I'd never thought about the commercialization or the the lack of commercial opportunity with rugby.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think uh do you think anybody would ever rewrite the rules of the game to to make it Americanized, so to speak?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they've they've tried, and it's they're they're trying to to make it more Americanized.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: The the so rugby is in the Olympics now, but it's sevens.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's rugby sevens, which is only seven guys on the field in seven minute halves.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how they're trying to make it more commercialized.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: But the full 15-man game is uh it's too entrenched in other places for America to just change the rules and people to try and think that you know that the all blacks are going to come and play our different rule set, you know.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: As a child athlete and coming up, you said you played every season.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Things like wrestling and football, those were more your preferential sport, or would somebody be surprised to hear that you actually loved, I don't know, track or playing basketball or something along those lines?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely loved contact, but what people would probably be surprised is that I was a competitive volleyball player growing up.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was a pretty tall kid, I could jump pretty high.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for Samoan people, volleyball is a very natural sport.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's something we're into.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not seen as like here, there's not a whole lot of men's volleyball teams.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's more seen as a girls' sport or a women's sport, but that was something that I was really big into.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I got to like high school and there was no men's volleyball team, it was I just moved on from it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: But anytime I tell people that, they'd they never believe it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So do you still play volleyball recreationally now?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll play it for fun, absolutely, especially on the beach.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like people aren't ready when they're just dinking around hitting the ball.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get out there and spike it for sure.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah, hell yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is it about Colorado that has such a strong MMA scene right now?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not sure how it started.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what brought all these guys here, but it but it goes back to that to the to the old like grudge team.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with Elliott Marshall, Cody Donovan, Dwayne Ludwig, um, Shane Carwin, Brennan Schaub.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know how all those guys ended up in Colorado for for whatever reason, but that's what's made it the powerhouse it is now that all those guys have turned into coaches and are focusing on the sport of MMA.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think where a lot of people go wrong is that they think, you know, I'm just gonna be a good, really good kickboxer, a really good jujitsu guy, and then when I'm good at that, I'll go into MMA.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And our coaches here at elevation are treating MMA as a completely different sport, and I I think that's the big difference.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously we're we're team elevation, the the elevation, the natural elevation here in Colorado, it makes a big difference.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: When you go down in elevation in fighting, everyone is afraid of getting tired.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what 99% of decisions you see guys making in the cage when you're like, why isn't he shooting or why isn't he throwing throwing leg kicks or whatever?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: The reason is because he's afraid of getting tired.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you can take that out a little bit by training at elevation, that's just another reason why you see so many good Colorado fighters.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, I'm here in Lincoln, Nebraska, and obviously uh Drew Dober is also from Nebraska, he's from Omaha.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I asked him this question.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Does the elevation really make that much of a difference in your training?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I brought up going up the Manitou incline, for instance.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Have you done that?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have not done it as a fighter.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I did it as a rugby player before, yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: How was that experience for you?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because I chicken out every time I'm in Manitou Space.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's horrible.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, I'm sure some people like it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I haven't done it since.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I did it one time when they when they forced me to, and it was, and I I weighed about 50 pounds more than I do right now, and it was horrible.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool that I could say I've done it, but I'm never gonna do it again unless my coaches make me.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I said to Drew, I said, I said, you know, Bud Crawford, I guess, does it every Sunday?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm afraid to walk it, man.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I so our ours started as a run, mine quickly turned into a walk.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I good for Bud.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's really good for him, actually.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but you've lived you've lived in Colorado pretty much your whole life, so you're used to it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're you've got a natural acclimation to it, right?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh absolutely.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and once you're at the level that I'm at, I mean, I don't know how long it takes to get here.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've lived here for 30 years, but um it's it's this is just normal to me.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: The lungs burning, the lightheadedness, this is normal.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: When I fight down in San Diego like I I just did a few weeks ago, I feel like Superman.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm like, is this what you guys walk around feeling like all the time?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like dude, I was just about to ask you that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: How does fighting in different locations feel after after all that training?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So so at the end of the camp, being in amazing shape and then going down to sea level, it's like I started getting nervous during my warm-up for the fight because I was like, I can't get tired right now, I can't get on my second wind, like I can't even get out of breath.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: My coach Cody was like, Yeah, you're at sea level, that's a good thing.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh, okay.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, during the fight, it's just you feel unstoppable.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said before, every fighter's biggest fear is getting tired in the cage, and when you can remove that, or when that doesn't peek its head up, it's it's a whole other ballgame, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you've had several transitions, several life transitions, interest transitions within a short period of time.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: What was your mental state like um going from the NFL to pro rugby to law enforcement to pro fighter?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um it's right now, it's it's taken me, I've had to go through all those things to get where I am now.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: My mental state wasn't great when I got cut from from the Texans and then, you know, was playing pro rugby and had to had to walk away from that.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I spent a lot of time kind of just blaming other people and and being a hater, you know, while watching other watching football on Sundays to be like, I'm better than that guy.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm better than that guy.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I should be in there.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I spent a lot of time doing that, and it wasn't until I got into fighting and kind of found this this home in martial arts that I realized that you know the reason I got cut is because it was my own fault.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I wasn't good enough to play, and it was because I wasn't working on the things I was bad at.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um same in rugby.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was the same rugby player I was as a football player.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't change anything, and that's why I didn't make big money playing rugby.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: There were guys making big money, and I wasn't one of them.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I'll same thing, playing rugby.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I always blamed other people.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And in fighting, the the beauty of individual sports is you can't blame other people.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's either you get it done or you don't get it done.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I just made a promise to myself when I started this that I was gonna do whatever it takes.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is this is the last run.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's no pro soccer for me after this or or anything else.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is the last run, and I'm doing whatever it takes, and it's really a beautiful place to be at to take responsibility for your own life and your own decisions.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously a discipline that you've learned over time.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Jiu-jitsu, well, I guess wrestling was kind of your entry level, but uh jujitsu is is what kind of pushed you over the top and kind of nudged you into that world, correct?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So so where are you at with your with your jujitsu journey right now?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a purple belt in jujitsu.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm I'm never gonna stop doing jujitsu.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be doing jujitsu 40 years from now.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I will be a black belt someday.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my goals, I don't do just pure jujitsu as much as I would like to right now, because my goals are my immediate goals are to you know get signed to a big organization and become the world champion of that organization.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And spending time, you know, in the gi or working intricate guard systems kind of takes away from that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I I love jujitsu and it's definitely a passion of mine that I'll be pursuing for the rest of my life.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So is there a certain discipline on your feet that you prefer over others?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I like Muay Thai mainly because it allows all the weapons to be used in with the knees and elbows.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've spent time in Thailand training.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I went out there with Dallaster and it was you know an amazing experience.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm a big fan of the culture of the Thai people, but I do what I I don't go to like a Muay Thai class.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like the striking that I I train with my coach Vinny Lopez is MMA striking.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's mixing in takedowns, it's it's based off of having small gloves.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if but if I had to tie one discipline to what I like to do on the feet, it's Muay Thai.
• 16:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: With a record like yours right now, how close is that contract to happening, brother?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's in the light heavyweight division, there's just not a whole lot of guys.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like I'm I'm waiting for I'm hoping for a short notice call up right now, but I am planning to fight one more time on the regional scene.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at 5-0, it's at in the light heavyweight division, it's it's gotta be right there.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's guys that have been 3-0, 4-0, you know, jumping up in into the big leagues, and that's what I'm looking for.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh I know the I haven't been fighting bums either.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all my opponents have had winning records, they're all good fighters.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I know I'm ready to for for that call-up.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, man.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, what makes you feel inspired to be your best self?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for for me, it it's honestly, and this is kind of a cliche answer, but it's I have two kids, and it's just looking at my kids and seeing what they think of me and and who they think I am, and just trying to be that guy that they think I am, and being the best version of myself because that's what they deserve.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: They deserve uh the best dad that they can have.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: How old are your kids?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter's four, and my son is one.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Life before children versus life after children.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like a total light switch?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know it was for me.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So who is Zach Pre-Kids and who is Zach now in comparison?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Zach Pre-Kids was was still a kid.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Zach Pre kid never was a procrastinator, never got anything done, put things off to the last minute, and and like and now it's it's the complete opposite.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, if I put things off to the last minute, I know they're not they're not ready to go.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm waiting to the last minute to get in the car, they're definitely not ready to go.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then we're never gonna leave the house.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's the like I said, it's the motivation to to be my best self.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to use the uh analogy of the airplane oxygen masks that you gotta put your own on before you put your kids on.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't be who my kids need to be unless I'm being the best version of myself, unless I'm chasing my dreams and doing everything that I have to do to be the best individual I can be.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I'd be the best dad that I can be.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Being the best example I can, showing them, not just telling them how they should live their life, but showing them by example how I expect them to live their lives.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could turn back time and talk to your 18-year-old self, what would you tell him?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: People people ask me all the time what I would do if I could go back and and and be on the Texans again.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if I would change anything.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I would tell my 18-year-old self anything because I I had to go through what I went through to be where I'm at now.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: If if I had just jumped straight into fighting or if I had maybe made it into the NFL and not had the character building that I went through in my early 20s, I wouldn't be ready to go on the run that I am now.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's people are gonna see when I get in the UFC and when I get signed to the big leagues and I just tear it apart, people are gonna wonder why.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna because be because of what I went through in my 20s.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if I could talk to my 18-year-old self, I would just tell him to get ready, get ready for everything that's coming.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that because uh, you know, one of the things that crossed my mind while we were talking here is uh somebody else with some Samoan lineage has a very similar story.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh The Rock, his story where he says, sometimes the best thing uh to ever happen to you is the thing that never happened.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it it sounds like you're on a pretty good path right now with all of that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I there there's times that I that I wake up early and you know, or when I have sore legs from getting kicked, and I'm like, man, it would have been nice to just make it in football, but that that's not how it works.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how life works, and I wouldn't be I wouldn't be ready for what I'm about to do if I had made it in football like that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what's the thing that makes you the most nervous these days?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, right now, and it's it's hard because fighting is isn't just a sport.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: With with with football and rugby and even wrestling, all that mattered was was winning.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get ahead on the clock, you take a knee.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: That that's what you do in football.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: You you just ice the game, you win the game.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not worried about losing and fighting.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I'm undefeated now.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure loss may come someday, but I'm so confident in my preparation that I'm not worried about losing.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am worried about trying to put on a show or trying to, you know, not be my authentic self in the cage because I'm I'm chasing crowd reactions, things like that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's what I get nervous about, is just trying to be my best self in the cage and not let uh the type of outcome I'm chasing dictate how I'm gonna fight.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you seem very measured.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Did that come from becoming a fighter, or was that always were you always very level-headed and well thought out and and measured in how you respond to things in life?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: It it's definitely taken some time, but it's uh like like I said, it's it's from what I went through in football and in in rugby.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm I don't know if it's fortunate or unfortunate, but I've had a lot of experience talking to the media.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've said some dumb things that have been putting in the newspaper.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've had some really you know bad portrayals of myself that I've had to read and my family have had to read, and I then I had to sit there and think like, man, I thought That guy was my friend.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he was just shooting the shit with me, and we were having a good conversation, and he was writing it all down to throw it in the newspaper.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's just experience.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's experience, and that's that's my strength right now, is is all the experiences I've had, and not just going through them, but but growing from them and and and learning from them and taking it into this fight career.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So who's your biggest hero and how have they made a lasting impact on your life?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my my parents are my biggest hero.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: My heroes, both of them, my mom and dad.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: My dad came here, you know, like I said, like as a Samoan immigrant, barely spoke any English, you know, married my mom, and they had they had three kids and and they figured it out.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: No college degree, put us all through school, raised us, fed us, keep us fed, got us to sports, got us to everything we needed to do.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't know any different that we were any different than any of the other kids growing up.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it it it humbles me to think of of what they did for me, and then that's also part of my goal is just to return the favor, return everything they gave me in my youth and the strong background that they gave me and be able to return that and make their lives a little easier here in the future.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's this fighting journey been like for them?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: They hate it, they absolutely hate it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um they uh they they just they don't watch, they don't like it that it's happening, but they do understand and they obviously know me that when I put my mind to something, it's no one's gonna talk me out of it, and it's not gonna I'm not gonna just stop because you know, even them, no matter what anybody says, I'm not gonna just stop.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird because I look at the past, I wouldn't even say five years, it's more like three, four years, and it's like MMA has kind of had this huge evolution year over year over year, and within the past three, four years, it feels like it's evolved more than it had the 25 years prior.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think what UFC won was 94 or 95, somewhere in there.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I think 94.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh so it's evolving.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think that people that are not gravitating towards MMA are not gravitating toward it because of stereotypes versus you know what the actual sport has become?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is definitely still a little bit of of stigma about the you know, no holds barred, you know, anything can happen.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's in a it's still in a cage, which is definitely turns people off that they lock us in a cage to fight.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um that definitely turns people off, but it's also what what makes the sport so unique and and so exciting is that that extra sense of danger that that they like to keep keep involved with it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think you know with the U UFC in particular, I don't think people are paying attention to the whole story that goes into a fight.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think more people would gravitate to that if they realized what went on with weight cuts, training camps, and all the work that goes into preparation for a fight.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you in camp right now?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in camp right now, so I I just fought three weeks ago.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um off a little bit and and hope hopefully I'll be in camp here in the next three weeks.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I am uh I'm just chilling right now.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, still still training, but this is the this is the fun part of camp when you can act or of the fight career where you can actually try and learn new skills.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to learn some new stuff because once camp goes, we just hone in on what I'm doing well already and just sharpen that as much as possible.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to learn new things in a lead up to a fight, but sure this like six weeks is when I can learn new stuff.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So what's your uh what's your diet and exercise routine like whenever you're not in camp?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm not in camp, so I my extra my diet is kind of just eating clean, you know, clean calories, but not watching the the the amount as much as I want, stay fueled.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually on a little bit of a weight gain program right now.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: My my coaches think my weight cuts have been too easy, so I'm I'm trying to gain a little bit of weight right now.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's still clean calories.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not I'm not eating McDonald's, but I'm eating as much as I want to and and then some and more, trying trying to put on a little bit more muscle.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh I'm still I probably train more out of camp.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest part of camp is is recovery and making sure you're there on fight night.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's the most important part of camp.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't get to the fight, what are you doing in that camp for?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: But so out of camp, you know, I'm lifting and doing strength and conditioning three days a week, and then still doing a skills practice every day.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So lifting three days a week, and then it'll be either a kickboxing, a boxing muita, jujitsu wrestling practice as well every single day.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're at such a great strategic advantage being in a place where you're regularly rolling around with Curtis Blades and Alistair.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: How is that like as a life experience?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: How is that for you?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So like I said before, I I'm an MMA fan.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm some a lot of the guys in in the sport aren't fans of the sport.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was a fan of the sport, and that's how I got into the sport.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Alistair was a was a big I like he was a I was a big fan of his.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like I watched him on TV on Pride when I was in sixth grade growing up, you know.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when he came into the gym, it was it was pretty it was cool, and then just you know, to become friends with him is has been awesome, and just the the benefit of training with him and Curtis, I I know, I know for a fact I'm not gonna see anybody on this regional scene that's even close, that that's like even remotely close to those two, and that gives me so much confidence going into all my fights.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just the experience of becoming friends with and training with a hero, essentially, like that that can just jar with anybody psychologically to some degree, doesn't it?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta be crazy to to to do this fight game.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, the first day he came in, they were just like, hey, Alistair's here to spar.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, someone's gotta spar him.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, you know, I I wasn't s I was like, oh, that's cool, but I put my mouthpiece in and I went to spar, you know, and I I brought it to him pretty hard.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out he likes to spar hard too, and that's kind of what like launched it off.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is he was just like, hey, we should train together more.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, brother.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: So what does Zach do for fun outside the fight game?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, like I said, I I have two kids, so I don't have a whole lot of free time.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um spend a lot, I try and spend as much with them as I can.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we just went to the zoo today.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great time.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do like to unwind, like to watch movies.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I play video games.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a big probably hobby of mine that I don't get to do as much as I'd like, but when I'm when it's just me, which is very, very few times, but but but yeah, I'll turn on the PlayStation and play some video games.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Through this life journey, how will your friends describe who you've become?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would hope, you know, that they would say that he's just a guy that that learned from his mistakes.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that went out there, that wasn't afraid to make them, wasn't afraid to make mistakes, but he learned from them and he grew, and you know, he just became a genuine good person.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's something on your workout playlist that people would be shocked by?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because everybody's got that shame song.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, my wife my wife tells me that I'm a psychopath because I don't listen to music.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: What do you listen to?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't listen to anything.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Silence.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: My my own breath.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: My own breath.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I don't like to listen to music.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to I don't want external motivation.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's all gotta come from inside.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I freak out if I leave my headphones at home.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, man, I can't go to the gym.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I left my my I can't do this workout today.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I left my headphones at home.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't listen to music.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you listen to like podcasts or uh I it's either podcasts or books, man?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I listen, I don't I listen to books and podcasts in the car.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't ever listen to music.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like my like I said, my wife says it makes me a psychopath, but I don't listen to music at all.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to podcasts in the car when driving and in the gym.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I just listen to my own breath.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Does it help you focus?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and um like breath work is something that I train a lot and that I believe is a big part of training that people neglect is breath work and recovery.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it does help me focus, and it's something that I am focusing on, is is how I'm breathing every set, every every sparring round, everything like that.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got a group chat with a few buddies, and we've been having this debate about red rest days.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I got one friend that's like taken on the David Goggins philosophy of no days off.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, dude, you're gonna hurt yourself doing that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's when the real work happens, is when you're in that recovery phase.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you get better, is resting.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, recovery recover is the most important part of training.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So six months from now, where are you at?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: If it's up to me, six months from now I'm in the UFC.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Already have one win and one bonus, and hopefully getting ready for my second one.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hell yes, man.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm not gonna lie, brother.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: We've been following each other for a few weeks now on Instagram, and uh seeing you after that win and uh reading up on your career and seeing everything that you've done, watching your fights on YouTube, man.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's gonna happen.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think it's a matter of if, I think it's a matter of when.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I'm really excited to see your career trajectory, my friend.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, it's it's been a pleasure having you on the show today, and uh anytime you want to come back and do this again, let's do it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, I'd love to.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: There was kind of a different yet special anomaly about recording this episode where I felt like like I was at the ground level of somebody that is going to be a huge MMA star very soon.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Big thanks to Zach and my friends at Elevation Fight Team.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Please follow Zach on social media.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's D-A-C-P-A-U-G-A, and give my friends at Elevation Fight Team a follow also on all forms of social media.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: While you're on social media, make sure you give me that like and follow on Instagram, uh, Facebook, TikTok, wherever you can find me, Twitter, follow caught on the mic with Michael Clark.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can also hit me up, www.caughtonthemic.com.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you're leaving that five-star review on the Apple Podcast app.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I greatly appreciate it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: There is some exciting stuff coming later down the line, and uh I'm excited to share it all with you guys.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mic with Michael Clark.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.