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Mallory Ottariano on building Youer · A New Angle

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This is A New Angle,
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a show about cool people doing awesome things in and around Montana.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Justin Angle.
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SPEAKER_02: This show is supported by First Security Bank,
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SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
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SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
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SPEAKER_02: Hey folks, welcome back, and thanks for tuning in.
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SPEAKER_02: Today,
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SPEAKER_02: I'm speaking with Mallory Otariano,
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SPEAKER_02: the founder of Ewer,
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SPEAKER_02: an American-made apparel company headquartered in Missoula.
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And then the more I started making stuff here,
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I realized this is really interesting and fun.
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And I feel excited about reviving an industry here that has
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been dead for 30,
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40 years.
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SPEAKER_02: Mallory grew this brand from scratch.
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And Ewer is an inspiring case study in the sort of business you
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can build right here in Montana.
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SPEAKER_02: Mallory, thanks for joining me.
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SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Justin.
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SPEAKER_02: So tell us, where did you grow up and what did your parents do?
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SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Massachusetts, right outside Boston.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: And my dad is a musician and stand-up comedian.
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SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
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SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: Yep.
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SPEAKER_00: And my mom stayed at home and raised my brother and I.
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SPEAKER_00: We were homeschooled,
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SPEAKER_00: so she was our educator for our early childhood.
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SPEAKER_02: And how did you make your way to Montana?
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SPEAKER_00: I came out here for my last semester of college.
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We were a big skiing family and I just dreamed about skiing out
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west my whole life.
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SPEAKER_00: So I used college as an opportunity to get out here.
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I went to the University of Massachusetts and then I did an
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exchange program my
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final semester so I could come to any state school for the same
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tuition as my state school.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was awesome.
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SPEAKER_00: I chose Montana State and Bozeman.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Ended up here and then bopped up to came out in 2011.
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SPEAKER_00: Then I bopped up to Missoula right after.
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And when did design and making things and sewing and those
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sorts of things become
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SPEAKER_02: part of your life?
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SPEAKER_00: I think very young.
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I was brought up on a very creative curriculum and my grandma
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taught me how to sew.
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SPEAKER_00: My grandma and my mom and taught me how to knit.
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SPEAKER_00: And so I used those tools to make wearable things.
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SPEAKER_00: It was a piece of my family.
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SPEAKER_00: My mom did a lot of it and my grandma did a lot of it.
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SPEAKER_00: And then when I was in high school,
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I was in public school at that point and I just used style as a
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way to stand out from my peers.
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SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Felt like people my age were, they were all shopping at the same stores.
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SPEAKER_00: They were buying the same things.
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They were dressing the same and like wearing the same scents
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and carrying the same bags.
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SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was really boring.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: How did that manifest at the time?
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SPEAKER_02: Like how did you distinguish yourself?
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I would like go to thrift stores and find clothes and cut them
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up or like maybe
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take a pair of pants and cut the sides of them to put a little
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panel and to widen
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SPEAKER_00: them and add some color.
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SPEAKER_00: I would applique a lot of things on T-shirts and slice T-shirts.
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SPEAKER_00: I would knit mittens and socks.
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And was this just for yourself or were you giving or selling
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stuff to friends?
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SPEAKER_00: It was just for me at that point.
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SPEAKER_00: Nice.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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And then in college,
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I kept doing it and friends would be like,
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oh,
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you should sell this.
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SPEAKER_00: Etsy was becoming a thing, then marketplace for handmade goods.
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SPEAKER_00: And then after college, I decided, okay, I guess I will sell these.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: So how did Ewer come to be?
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SPEAKER_00: First, I went to art school before I ended up at UMass.
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SPEAKER_00: So that was a full immersion fine arts studio arts program.
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SPEAKER_00: Then I studied architecture, which was also making things.
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SPEAKER_00: And then when I graduated, I had a job in agricultural research.
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And so this thing that I had made and created every day and all
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of a sudden that I
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didn't have an opportunity to do that wasn't built into my
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daily curriculum.
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SPEAKER_00: So I used Etsy as a reason to make stuff.
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SPEAKER_00: And I thought if I open up an Etsy shop,
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SPEAKER_00: And I make things for that.
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There's like a built in motivation for me to make stuff because
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I'm selling it.
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SPEAKER_00: And that will be my creative outlet every day.
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And take us back in time because Etsy seems like it's a well
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known thing now.
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SPEAKER_02: But 10, 12 or so years ago, it was this emergent marketplace.
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SPEAKER_02: How did you understand it at the time?
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SPEAKER_02: And why was it a interesting platform to you?
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SPEAKER_00: I tend to get very obsessed with things and dive into them fully.
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SPEAKER_00: So I did very significant deep dives on Etsy.
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SPEAKER_00: I would find sellers who were making things like me.
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And I would just go in and figure out what was that turning
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point at which their
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SPEAKER_00: sales started to climb?
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SPEAKER_00: How did their imagery change?
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SPEAKER_00: How did their products change?
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SPEAKER_00: What did they do?
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SPEAKER_00: So I have to study these people.
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And did you have dialogue with them or just this is you
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grokking that from observing them?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just totally creeping on them.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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And the benefit of Etsy then was it was a built-in marketplace
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and platform.
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You didn't have to go find your own customers,
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which is still what it provides today.
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SPEAKER_00: But it was a study of keywords.
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SPEAKER_00: It was like early SEO, but within the marketplace.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was my study of how I figured out how to get in front of people.
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SPEAKER_02: What was it like to sell something that you made for the first time?
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SPEAKER_00: It was like totally a digital experience and disconnected.
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You're selling this thing to this random person in a random
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part of the country.
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SPEAKER_00: You package it all up and ship it.
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SPEAKER_00: And then I was having... I remember the first thing I sold.
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SPEAKER_00: I had been listing things for a couple of weeks before something sold.
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SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't selling stuff every single day.
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SPEAKER_00: And even when I was, it was just one or two.
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So I could take time and write these little notes to people or
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package things up
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SPEAKER_00: really beautifully and have these...
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SPEAKER_00: weird experiences with people I didn't even know.
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SPEAKER_00: I never intended for it to be my career.
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SPEAKER_00: It was entirely an accident the way that it all turned out.
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It was just supposed to be something to keep me excited and
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creatively inspired.
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SPEAKER_00: So I did it for about a year before I realized that this could maybe be a
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SPEAKER_00: significant portion of my income.
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SPEAKER_00: And then it was like my part-time income for a year.
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SPEAKER_00: And then after two years...
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SPEAKER_00: I was like matching my income.
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SPEAKER_00: I was working as an architectural designer at that point and I hated it.
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SPEAKER_00: So I decided to quit my job and do this full time.
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SPEAKER_02: And what did that feel like?
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It was scary,
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but I think that fear was a little,
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it wasn't really self-imposed.
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SPEAKER_00: Like people in my surrounding orbit were a little doubtful.
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SPEAKER_00: I think anytime you quit a traditional situation and go out on your own.
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SPEAKER_02: I can imagine the traditional parent saying, what are you doing?
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My parents are like not super traditional,
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so they were pretty supportive of it.
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SPEAKER_02: Nice.
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SPEAKER_00: But I think people were like, what?
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SPEAKER_00: You're going to thrift stores?
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SPEAKER_00: You're getting clothes and cutting them up and making new things?
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SPEAKER_00: This isn't a job.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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I feel like I'd proven to myself in the years leading up to it
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that I could do it.
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SPEAKER_02: As it was your side hustle for a while,
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and then you said you got to a point where it's duplicated the
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income you're
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SPEAKER_02: getting from your job.
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Were you making choices along the line to set yourself up to be
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a business,
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SPEAKER_02: like your pricing policy,
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SPEAKER_02: how you manage inventory,
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SPEAKER_02: all these sorts of things?
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SPEAKER_02: Or was it just sort of unfolding,
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SPEAKER_02: not necessarily haphazardly,
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SPEAKER_02: but like,
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was there method to the madness as you were approaching this
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launch point?
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SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
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SPEAKER_00: I had kind of product collections.
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I had specific things that I was making all the time,
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specific ways of doing them.
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SPEAKER_00: A big piece of my job was going to thrift stores and shopping for stuff.
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And so I came up with some systems of what days I was doing
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that and definitely
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SPEAKER_00: pricing structures.
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SPEAKER_00: I had...
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SPEAKER_00: I left Etsy and I went to my own site.
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SPEAKER_00: That was like a big strategic pivot to be able to capture people there.
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SPEAKER_00: And I started email marketing before I quit my job.
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SPEAKER_00: And I started doing a lot of events.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was like a huge piece of my business in the early days.
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SPEAKER_02: Yes.
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SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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SPEAKER_02: Talk about the events and how you're investing effort and time in those.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: At first I would do like local craft fairs,
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SPEAKER_00: things like the maid fair we have here in Montana,
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SPEAKER_00: smaller versions of that all over the board.
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SPEAKER_00: And then my first full-time year doing it,
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I decided that I was just going to focus on events and take
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those people that I was
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SPEAKER_00: having experiences with in person.
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and digitize them so i went to about 30 events all over the
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country that first year
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i was on the road the whole year i would bring my sewing
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machine and sew on the
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road too and i captured names and email addresses of all the
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people that i engaged
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with and that became my initial digital customer base and are
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you making all of the
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SPEAKER_02: products at this point yourself
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SPEAKER_00: Yes, I made all of the products until 2017.
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SPEAKER_00: So the first four years of doing this, it was all me.
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SPEAKER_02: So talk about that moment.
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SPEAKER_02: I think anybody,
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SPEAKER_02: maybe you've been in this space or not,
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but you can imagine going to a booth at the maid fair and it
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seems like it is a
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SPEAKER_02: complete labor of love for this person who's making all the stuff,
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SPEAKER_02: doing the hustle,
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SPEAKER_02: selling it.
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Describe the transition from that to a bigger business and that
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sort of enters
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growth mode and you have to hire people and think about a
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supply chain and not make
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SPEAKER_02: every piece yourself.
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Pretty quickly into the process,
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I realized that I didn't like making stuff anymore.
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SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually like sewing.
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I realized that I liked the experience of creating something
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that brought somebody joy,
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but the act of sitting at the machine for hours a day and
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pumping out hundreds of pieces,
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SPEAKER_00: didn't fuel that emotional need for me.
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SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't very fun and wasn't exciting.
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And the other pieces of the business were becoming much more
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interesting to me.
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Like I was really enjoying the finance component and I was like
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doing my own
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bookkeeping and I was marketing and doing my own photography
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and exploring all of
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SPEAKER_00: those avenues,
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SPEAKER_00: like the making thing.
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SPEAKER_00: was it didn't require like my individuality necessarily.
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SPEAKER_00: So that was just like a thing that was very monotonous that I had to do,
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SPEAKER_00: but the other stuff was much more interesting and exciting.
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That seemed like the easiest thing to offload because there are
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factories and
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SPEAKER_00: people who are way better at sewing stuff than I was.
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SPEAKER_00: I entered this realm where I was like selling to stores and
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SPEAKER_00: selling a higher volume of things.
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SPEAKER_00: And I really had to, it couldn't be like a handmade looking product.
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SPEAKER_00: I was creating like athletic wear and sportswear.
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SPEAKER_00: And so it needed to compete on the shelf next to a Patagonia or a Prana.
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SPEAKER_00: My sewing skills weren't really going to take it there.
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SPEAKER_02: I mean,
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you mentioned using some upscaled materials from thrift stores
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and so forth,
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SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
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SPEAKER_02: what is the design ethic of your,
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SPEAKER_02: and who's the customer?
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SPEAKER_02: What problem are you solving for customers?
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today we create what we call maximalist clothing maximalist
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yeah it's really super
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brightly colored and very brightly patterned and printed and we
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make things for
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original individuals mostly women and mostly athletic and
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active women so we do a
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lot of spandex we do a lot of leggings and running skirts we do
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a ton of fleece in
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SPEAKER_00: the winter things for a mountain town athlete somebody who is
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getting active on their lunch break or going on a trail run in
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the morning and
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SPEAKER_00: wants to wear the same thing to work.
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SPEAKER_00: Things that are very flexible,
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SPEAKER_00: but serve the purpose of athletic wear without being complete athleisure.
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And my sense is that it does the technical job,
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but provides some sense of individuality.
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It doesn't quite look as technical as,
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say,
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other brands that are more specific.
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SPEAKER_00: That's exactly true.
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SPEAKER_02: How do you do that?
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SPEAKER_02: How do you do that in a way that the customer sort of gets it?
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SPEAKER_00: Design, like really intentional design.
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And I think it's more than just,
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we're not really doing anything revolutionary with our design.
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SPEAKER_00: We are an athletic company at the end of the day.
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SPEAKER_00: There's like tons of other leggings out on the market.
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SPEAKER_00: There's nothing really that unusual or patentable about what we're doing.
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It's the way that we talk about it and the way that we bring
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community together
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SPEAKER_00: that I think is interesting.
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SPEAKER_00: We're testing everything very heavily because our price point is high.
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SPEAKER_00: So we want somebody who pays $130 for a pair of leggings
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SPEAKER_00: To be able to wear that legging running,
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SPEAKER_00: hiking every day with a dress at work,
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SPEAKER_00: lounging on the couch to yoga,
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SPEAKER_00: like a kind of do everything piece.
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SPEAKER_02: Is your design philosophy layer into sort of a sustainability philosophy?
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We make decisions about product from a variety of
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sustainability platforms.
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SPEAKER_00: We look at materials,
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so we always have to have a material that has some sort of
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sustainable element to it.
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We use a lot of recycled polyester or we use bio nylon,
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which is like a polymer-free nylon.
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SPEAKER_00: Fabrics are one angle,
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but a really important thing to us is how many times somebody
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can wear something.
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We're competing against so many fashion brands and fast fashion
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is just the largest
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SPEAKER_00: producer of clothing.
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So we want somebody to be able to wear our stuff repeatedly for
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years and years.
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SPEAKER_00: And then we also have a resale site.
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SPEAKER_00: So...
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SPEAKER_00: When people are done wearing it or it doesn't fit them anymore,
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they can come back to our site and sell it to somebody else and
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get credit or cash
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SPEAKER_00: to continue that message.
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And I would assume that a big part of the sustainability piece
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comes from the fact
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SPEAKER_02: that you make everything here in Montana.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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So the supply chain,
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the carbon footprint of the supply chain is much smaller.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Totally.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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SPEAKER_00: We make 100% of our clothes in the United States.
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SPEAKER_00: We don't make most of our fabrics here, unfortunately.
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That's not an industry that really exists in this country yet
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for technical performance fabrics.
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SPEAKER_00: But about 70% of our pieces are sewed in Montana and Missoula.
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SPEAKER_00: And the remaining percentage is in California at a factory in LA.
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SPEAKER_00: But we own our own factory in Missoula now.
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SPEAKER_02: Can we break that down a little bit?
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Because a listener might be thinking or maybe has the notion
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that if we bring
13:24
SPEAKER_02: manufacturing back to the United States,
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SPEAKER_02: things will just be too expensive.
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SPEAKER_02: I don't want to pay $4,000 for my iPhone.
13:30
How have you found it possible to price things at a fair price
13:35
for an American
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SPEAKER_02: consumer and make them in the United States?
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SPEAKER_00: The margins are very slim.
13:42
One way that we're able to accomplish it is we are primarily a
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direct consumer brand.
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SPEAKER_00: We sell to a handful of stores, but it's not a big piece of our business.
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SPEAKER_00: We just got into our local Shields,
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SPEAKER_00: and that's definitely their strategy behind all of it,
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SPEAKER_00: for sure,
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SPEAKER_00: in locations that we aren't located in.
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SPEAKER_00: It's helpful.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: But labor is the biggest cost in making things in the U.S.
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SPEAKER_00: And it is difficult.
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We feel a lot of pressure to compete price-wise with other
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things on the shelf.
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SPEAKER_00: Like our T-shirt for us is $60.
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SPEAKER_00: And there's not a ton of $60 T-shirts out there.
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SPEAKER_00: And we just can't compete with a $20 T-shirt.
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SPEAKER_00: But in a consumable product,
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SPEAKER_00: like a legging that's not super unique,
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SPEAKER_00: like we do have to keep our price point similar to other brands.
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How labor intensive are the products you make and is that
14:28
similar across other
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SPEAKER_02: brands or is there what degree of automation exists in apparel?
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SPEAKER_00: Our products are fairly simple.
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SPEAKER_00: We have a handful of different pieces of equipment that are used in them,
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but there's a little bit of automation in that we have sewing
14:45
machines that have
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automatic cutters or like we have a machine that's specific to
14:50
attaching collars
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and you lock the garment on with the collar and kind of
14:54
hands-free and you just
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SPEAKER_00: push a foot pedal.
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SPEAKER_00: So there's a little bit of automation there,
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but like a person is overseeing every single step and like 25
15:02
to 30 people,
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are involved in the production of one garment throughout its
15:06
entire supply chain.
15:08
We'll be back to my conversation with Mallory Otariano after
15:12
this short break.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: A New Angle is proudly presented by First Security Bank,
15:19
SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
15:20
SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
15:23
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SPEAKER_02: and I'm so grateful for their support and encouragement.
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SPEAKER_02: So check it out at anewanglepodcast.com.
15:47
Hello,
15:47
this is Jeff Amon from Def Charlie,
15:49
and you're listening to Justin Angle's A New Angle.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to A New Angle.
15:57
I'm speaking with Mallory Otariano about building an apparel
16:01
business right here in Montana.
16:04
And you have grown through this entire process of getting to
16:08
where you are today.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: Talk about maybe some of those key inflection points.
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SPEAKER_00: I think first key milestone was outsourcing manufacturing.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: That was in 2017.
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I was at a yoga festival in Las Vegas,
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and my booth neighbor was a clothing company.
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SPEAKER_00: They happened to own their own factory where they made their stuff.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: After a great conversation with them, they took on our production.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was huge for opening up my time.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: But it also...
16:34
It shed light on the challenges of manufacturing and the
16:38
involvement of manufacturing.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't hands-off like I thought it would be.
16:41
It was very intensive and there was so much management remotely
16:46
that was happening on my part.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: And when I was first starting out,
16:48
I didn't really know the right tools to be delivering to a
16:52
factory and the factory
16:53
SPEAKER_00: was small.
16:54
Throughout that process of working with many factories,
16:56
I had a lot of mistakes and problems.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: And at this point,
17:01
I've probably lost close to a million dollars worth of product
17:05
due to production mistakes.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And during the pandemic, we had so many issues.
17:11
A couple of them were so great that attorneys got involved and
17:14
it got extremely messy.
17:15
So the only way to really be prioritized and make great stuff
17:18
is to do it ourselves.
17:20
So I decided that I was going to build my own factory and I did
17:23
a crowdfunding
17:24
SPEAKER_00: campaign in 2021,
17:26
which I coded into my own site and figured out how to just
17:30
avoid Kickstarter fees.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: And we raised,
17:32
this was specifically to buy a building because I had found
17:35
this one building that...
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Just I needed $100,000 extra for.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: So I crowdfunded 100K in a month.
17:43
And then the sale of that building completely fell through and
17:47
the sale of a dozen
17:48
SPEAKER_00: more buildings over the next few years did.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: But finally,
17:51
SPEAKER_00: earlier this summer in June,
17:53
SPEAKER_00: we found a building,
17:55
SPEAKER_00: bought it and renovated it all for the summer.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: And here we are.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: And what I didn't hear in that timeline is wavering on your commitment to
18:03
SPEAKER_02: manufacturing in the United States.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Were you steadfast in that commitment throughout?
18:07
SPEAKER_00: At this point, it's a huge piece of our story.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a huge reason why people support us.
18:13
And if we were to pivot and go overseas,
18:15
it would really change our business.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it would change why people support us.
18:19
I initially started manufacturing here in America because it
18:22
was convenient.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have connections with brokers overseas.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a way of communicating with these people.
18:29
And I had somebody right in front of me who made stuff here and
18:31
it was easy to talk to them.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: And then as I continued to do that, I realized it is easy.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: You can hop in a plane.
18:37
You can,
18:37
you're maybe a time zone that's just a couple of hours apart
18:40
instead of 14 hours apart.
18:42
Like when we work with our suppliers in China and Taiwan now
18:45
where we get fabrics,
18:46
like...
18:47
SPEAKER_00: the delay in communication is so extreme.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And cost too,
18:51
to then pay a broker and an interpreter to work with a factory
18:55
overseas is
18:56
SPEAKER_00: something that I just really,
18:58
SPEAKER_00: it seemed like a ton of effort and it was intimidating to me.
19:02
And then the more I started making stuff here,
19:03
I realized this is really interesting and fun.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: And I feel excited about reviving an industry here that has been dead for
19:11
SPEAKER_00: 30, 40 years.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: And that's interesting to me.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Now that we make stuff in Missoula,
19:15
SPEAKER_00: I love seeing the impact that our clothes,
19:19
SPEAKER_00: making our clothes here has on our community.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: In a sea of product and oversaturation of product, it helps us stand out.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: And it is meaningful.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: I think when you have a tight,
19:32
SPEAKER_02: authentic story that you're living,
19:35
SPEAKER_02: it probably feels easier because just your decisions are simpler,
19:38
SPEAKER_02: I would imagine.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: That's not to say the challenges are smaller,
19:43
SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
19:43
SPEAKER_02: the guardrails are a little tighter in some ways.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it allows us to be more flexible in our product, too.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: We don't have huge minimums.
19:50
If we were to make stuff overseas,
19:51
we'd be,
19:52
right now we make 25 different products.
19:54
Overseas,
19:54
we might make five and have to make thousands of each one of
19:57
those five.
19:58
And along those lines,
19:59
are you able to experiment with different designs,
20:01
different colorways?
20:02
SPEAKER_00: We're totally able to experiment.
20:04
We're kind of limited by fabric because we have minimums with
20:07
those suppliers.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: But we launch new stuff every month, which is pretty fun.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: We are able to have some core pieces that we make many thousands of.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: And then we have other things like we're making some overalls right now.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: We're just making 100 of them.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: We've never made them before.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: We're experimenting with them.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: We're using some leftover fabric and it's fun.
20:26
And we can turn stuff around quickly because we have
20:29
development and sampling in-house.
20:32
So this summer we brought an idea from like literally a sketch
20:36
to sold out in three
20:38
SPEAKER_00: days with some leftover fabric that was in our storage.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: And how do some of the more modern tools of selling facilitate that?
20:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
20:45
you mentioned moving from Etsy to your own website and coding
20:48
some of your own crowdfunding.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: You have a strong presence on Instagram.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: How are you using technology to get direct to the customer?
20:57
SPEAKER_00: Social media, really Instagram is our major channel for brand awareness.
21:02
We've recently started experimenting with some paid ads,
21:05
but that's just been a few months.
21:06
That's like a little bit of load off my plate for not free,
21:09
but yeah,
21:10
I think it's working.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Making videos and having organic reach has just been huge.
21:15
Making really engaging content and putting a ton of energy into
21:18
making stuff that
21:18
SPEAKER_00: people want to share is huge.
21:21
How are you learning and growing in your own sort of skillset
21:24
throughout this process?
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Talking to people, expanding my network.
21:27
I think that's a really,
21:29
we're not a big business,
21:31
but I've been doing it for a very long time.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: So I have a big network.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's been a huge growth opportunity for me.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: When I have a question about something,
21:40
I know there's somebody that I know who knows a lot more about
21:42
it than I do.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: I can get inspired from them.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Do a lot of reading.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: I take a lot of courses.
21:47
I'm really focused on continuing education within my little
21:50
marketing niche because
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I went to school for art and architecture.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: I didn't learn about marketing and strategy and metrics.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: And so that's very fascinating to me.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I'm learning every day.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: And how have you learned about leadership?
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Now you have what, a seven person team and you're in a leadership role.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: You're working less in the business and more on the business.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: How have you, how's that experience been like for you?
22:16
SPEAKER_00: I had no leadership experience prior to this.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And I, yeah, managing people was really tricky.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think my biggest challenge, I've learned a ton.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: I've gotten so much better at being a leader and listening to people.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think my biggest challenge is that my main job is not manager.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm the only revenue generating employee on our team.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: So I am responsible for managing people
22:44
SPEAKER_00: everyone.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: We have two other managers within our team who manage people's tasks,
22:48
SPEAKER_00: but I'm ultimately responsible for galvanizing and motivating people,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: but then I'm also responsible for bringing every single dollar in.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: I've learned a lot about the hiring process,
22:57
specifically manual labor positions that are not very exciting
23:02
have very high turnover,
23:03
SPEAKER_00: and you have to be okay with that.
23:05
I think ultimately I've just learned to release control a
23:09
little bit and listen to
23:10
SPEAKER_00: people and give people autonomy.
23:13
But I made some pretty big management mistakes early on and not
23:18
really listening
23:18
SPEAKER_00: properly to the people I was hiring.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And that taught me a lot.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Have you made choices about when is the right time to hire?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: I think I am my own worst enemy in that regard a lot.
23:30
Like marketing,
23:31
for instance,
23:31
I should have hired for this position a long time ago.
23:35
I think it's always when I reach a personal tipping point and I
23:38
don't have any
23:39
SPEAKER_00: ability to add more time into my day.
23:41
And then elevating myself into things that I'm passionate about
23:47
or good at and
23:49
trying to take those other things that I might not enjoy that
23:53
much off my plate and
23:53
SPEAKER_00: give somebody else the opportunity to get excited about them.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: And how are you thinking about growth?
23:58
SPEAKER_02: What is your relationship to growth?
23:59
SPEAKER_02: What is optimal?
24:00
SPEAKER_02: If you could set the trajectory, what would it be?
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I've reframed my ideas about growth a lot over the last few years.
24:07
I used to think that growth was a revenue metric and I felt
24:12
really strongly about
24:13
SPEAKER_00: that for a long time.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And over the last two years,
24:16
SPEAKER_00: I've realized the kind of the roots of the tree metaphor,
24:20
SPEAKER_00: that kind of growth is really where we need to be focusing,
24:23
SPEAKER_00: the invisible growth and having a very strong foundation.
24:27
And that's where I've been focusing growth efforts over the
24:29
last two years is
24:31
SPEAKER_00: building a supply chain that is very stable
24:33
production that is very high quality and is going to produce a
24:36
very reliable
24:36
product and building that foundation before we can grow what's
24:41
above ground,
24:41
SPEAKER_00: what's visible to the customer.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: How did you kind of arrive at that resolve to build those roots?
24:47
SPEAKER_00: In 2022, we were a team of two plus a contractor.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: And that was hard to do a lot of things with.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: It was a big year for us.
24:58
We did do a lot,
24:59
but we had so many undulations in production and the quality of
25:03
our product.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And that really impacted our ability to do things.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: So the quality of product, I think, is...
25:10
SPEAKER_00: That idea of foundation,
25:12
SPEAKER_00: because we're a product based company,
25:14
SPEAKER_00: we market our product in a fun way.
25:15
But if we don't have product and we don't have a consistent and
25:18
reliable way of
25:19
SPEAKER_00: making it,
25:20
SPEAKER_00: then everything else suffers.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: So having a team of people who are here and committed and
25:28
SPEAKER_00: here for the foreseeable future.
25:30
We had a lot of doors opening and closing in 2023,
25:33
like tons of people coming and going.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: And that made it very difficult to say,
25:38
SPEAKER_00: this is the team,
25:38
SPEAKER_00: like we're gonna grow with this because all of my efforts,
25:42
SPEAKER_00: I was hiring somebody every single month.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And so that didn't really allow me much opportunity to think of growth.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: I was just trying to like keep the boat stable.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so people and product.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: And so 2025, what are your hopes and dreams for this?
25:59
SPEAKER_02: If things just went perfectly, what would that look like?
26:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't have an exit strategy.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't plan to be exiting.
26:05
I started this because I love doing it and I still love doing
26:08
it and I don't really
26:09
SPEAKER_00: see myself stopping loving doing it.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
26:11
So my exit strategy is just keep doing this until I physically
26:15
can't anymore.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: But because it is really the result of my personal energy,
26:25
I feel like the business goes through many iterations depending
26:29
on how I'm personally feeling.
26:31
And because I've been doing this since I started when I was 22,
26:33
I'm almost 35.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm a very different person now.
26:36
And the business has changed as my personal interests and
26:39
aesthetics have changed.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like business is a landscape for playfulness in that regard.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't always have to be focused on making clothes.
26:48
If there's something else that's interesting to me,
26:50
I can pursue that and wrap it into clothes.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: I design all of our prints because I love drawing.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's interesting to me.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: A couple of years ago, I wanted to put on a ski film.
26:59
So we like opened up our warehouse and had a premiere of a
27:02
bunch of ski films.
27:03
And like maintaining a fun playground like that,
27:07
I think is something that's imperative to like
27:10
SPEAKER_00: sticking with something for the long term.
27:12
I'm not trying to grow this to a point that's attractive to
27:15
investors or buyers.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: It's not my end goal.
27:17
My end goal is to have fun and to support the people who are a
27:19
part of it really
27:20
SPEAKER_00: well and that we all have fun together.
27:22
What advice would you have for somebody who's trying to
27:24
navigate some of those risky decisions?
27:26
I think first and foremost,
27:28
figure out something that you're really passionate about.
27:30
If you're not passionate about this idea,
27:33
your business idea,
27:34
you're probably going to exit.
27:36
You're not going to have a super long tenure at it because
27:40
there are so many
27:42
SPEAKER_00: challenges and doubts that come at you.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And you have to have that internal resolve and dedication because...
27:48
SPEAKER_00: you're your own cheerleader all the time.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: And so many other people aren't going to get that.
27:52
So you have to like really be able to be that for yourself,
27:54
I think is number one.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And then number two is like, you don't have to have it all figured out.
27:59
I see so many people making sure they have every single piece
28:03
of paperwork filed
28:05
before and they take years to do it before they take that first
28:07
step and just take
28:08
SPEAKER_00: that first step and figure it out as you go.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Try it.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: Mallory, thanks so much for sharing your story with us.
28:15
It's a great one and excited to see what commences in the next
28:18
several years for you.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening to A New Angle.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: If you like what we do and want to support us directly,
28:30
SPEAKER_02: please consider a subscription at anewanglepodcast.com.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: A New Angle is recorded at Studio 49.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: A generous gift from UM alums Michelle and Lauren Hanson.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: Our presenting sponsors are First Security Bank,
28:45
SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
28:46
SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Kelly Larson is our producer.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: Maddie Jordan is our production assistant.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: VTO Jeff Amet and John Wicks made our music.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: And Jeff Meese is our master of all things sound.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot and see you next time.