Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Kent Hovind VS 3 Evolutionists

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Kent Hovind VS 3 Evolutionists · Brett Keane and Eve Show

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3 minus 109876543210 ignition. All right.
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Well, it's an honor to be here tonight.
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My name is Kent Hovind. I live in Pensacola, FL.
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I taught high school science for 15 years, and now I travel and
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do seminars on creation, evolution and dinosaurs.
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And my ministry is not government funded.
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This is not my wife, just a picture of her.
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We have three kids, one of each. I'll have all the kids married
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off and the dog died, so I made it.
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I'm home free, it's wonderful. And my lovely daughter and her
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husband are over here, so raise your hand there.
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Paula Marlissa. Good to have them here tonight.
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And I got two grandkids, one more due in a few days and
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another one due in about seven months.
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So I'll have 4 grandkids all under 3 when it's over with.
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I'm the founder of Dinosaur Adventureland in Pensacola, FL.
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If you ever get up to Pensacola, you need to stop and see that
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place. We have a Science Center.
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A museum and a theme park, all based on creation and give glory
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to God for his creation instead of teaching evolution.
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We offer a lot of home school classes.
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We have a lot of video materials available.
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We have a creation boot camp coming up this September, and
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you're all invited to come up to that.
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We believe that the creation ought to glorify the God of the
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Creator, and he ought to get credit for what he did.
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So our position is the Bible is true.
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Evolution theory is seriously wrong.
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And one of the dumbest and most dangerous religions in the
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history of the world. That's our totally unbiased
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opinion on the subject. Thank you so much.
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Professors, I'll start. My name is Jim Strayer.
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I'm from Michigan. I started my educational career
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in a small Methodist school. I went there for two years and
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then transferred to Eastern Michigan University to get the
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major in biology and a minor in chemistry.
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I taught school for a few years and went into the army and
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served as a corpsman in the US Army Hospital came home and and
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after a few more years of teaching I was awarded the
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National Science Foundation scholarship to get a master's
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degree in biology and got that from the University of Michigan.
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OK, OK, I have I Have you finished?
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Sorry, no. I have around 100 hours of
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semester hours of of science and most of that's in biology and I
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retired a few years ago and since then I've been keeping
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active by giving lectures on Charles Darwin and evolution and
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related biological subjects. I'm very happy to be here and I
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feel very comfortable in front of a college crowd and we should
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have a good time. I'm Rhino Sleeper.
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I teach here and that means I live around this area too, and
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there's no way I'm going to be able to top that introduction
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that we just heard. So I'll just be staying on the
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side of modesty and stop right here.
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My name is Luther Reisbig. I'm.
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Professor of Aerospace Engineering.
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I graduated from Michigan State University, where I got my PhD
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in engineering there. I'm probably the least qualified
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person to be here talking about any of these matters, but but
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I'll apologize and we'll do what we can.
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Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Doctor
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Hogan. You'll now have 12 minutes to
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make an opening case. All right, well, let's define a
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few positions. I believe very strongly that the
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earth is about 6000 years old. It was created in six literal 24
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hour days. This position would make a few
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predictions. The Bible says clearly in six
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days the Lord made heaven and earth and all that in them is
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everything created in six days. Now, based on that prediction,
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based on that premise, we can make a few predictions, which is
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what science is supposed to do. A scientific theory is supposed
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to allow you to make predictions.
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I predict based on the Bible teaching.
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That the universe will show evidence of order and design all
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over the place. OK, I predict that we'll find
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thousands of symbiotic relationships in nature.
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Animals that require certain plants, and plants that require
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certain animals, and it works just fine because they were all
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created within a few days of each other.
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Not a problem at all for the creationist viewpoint.
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I predict that there will be limits to the variations that
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life forms are able to produce. The Bible says they will bring
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forth after their kind, and that's what we've observed our
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6000 years of human history shows us.
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Dogs produce dogs. Every time.
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Might be a big dog or a little dog.
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It might have curly hair or straight hair, but it's going to
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be a dog, guaranteed. OK, farmers actually count on
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that. I mean, when they plant corn,
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they expect to get corn. And so far it has happened.
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So certainly there are variations, but there are
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definite limits to the variations, and this is where
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the major difference comes between the creationist.
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And the evolutionist, I predict that they're not only limits to
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the variation. I predict that there will be
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actually a purpose to life because we were designed by a
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creator for a purpose. That's a prediction based on the
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Bible view. I predict there will be non
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material things like love, sense of justice, mercy, innate
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knowledge of right and wrong, a conscience, an absolute truth.
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Those things are not possible with the evolution theory.
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They are predicted based on the creation theory.
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Somebody designed this for a reason.
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I predict that there will be a way to find the will of the
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Creator. Such as Messenger speaking for
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him or maybe even a book telling us why he did it and how he did
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it. I predict there will be an
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afterlife where we'll face the Creator to give an accounting.
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OK, the Bible dates, if you add them up in scripture, comes to
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about 6000 years ago for the creation, not millions.
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There's a large difference between 6020 billion.
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Congress doesn't seem to understand that, but there is a
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big difference. OK, now based on the Bible
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teaching that. The Earth was originally created
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where people live to be 900 years old.
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I predict we will find lots of legends about a golden age and a
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creation event. This seems to be kind of
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universal throughout history. Most people believe there was a
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creation and most people believe there was a time when man used
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to live to near to be nearly 1000.
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The Greeks talked about it, the Babylonians talked about it, the
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Sumerians, everybody talked about this golden age.
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Why? Well, that's predicted based on
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the creation viewpoint. OK, I predict there will be
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skeletons found of people showing signs of great age
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because they were living to be much older, you know, before
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things happen. Then as you grow, especially the
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brow Ridge of your head never stops growing.
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The constant pull on the back of your head, the occipital bun,
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based on just the muscles from holding your head forward, is
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going to elongate the head. Over two or three or 400 years,
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people would look exactly like the Neanderthals look.
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Brain 13% bigger than ours, few strange things about their head,
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but 100% human in every respect. I predict that there will be
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biological problems with modern man, such as wisdom teeth,
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because we're not as big as we used to be and we're developing
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probably faster. People are maturing faster.
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They're only living to be in 80 or 90 instead of living to be
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900. And wisdom to ether.
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A problem today, not because of evolution, but because we're
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actually genetically inferior to the original model, Adam and
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Eve. OK, I predict that there'll be a
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universal longing for things to be restored to the Garden of
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Eden conditions. That's what everybody seems to
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want. OK, now what difference does it
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make if you believe in evolution or creation?
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Well, if evolution is true, how do we tell right from wrong?
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Anytime. Tonight, I would like any one of
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these gentlemen to answer the simple question, If evolution is
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true, how does anybody tell? Right.
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From wrong. If I wanted you to make a list
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of 10 things that are wrong before you put anything on the
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list, I want to know how are you deciding?
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Are you deciding right from wrong based on what Osama bin
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Laden thinks? Do we decide right from wrong
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based on what Congress thinks? Do we decide right from wrong
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based on the majority? How do we decide right from
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wrong? Simple question.
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I've never had it answered. If evolution is true, death
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brought man into the world and death is actually the hero of
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the plot. Because if evolution is true.
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One animal evolves a little better than the rest for some
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reason. Maybe a mutation or something.
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What? What must happen to the rest of
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them? They have to die.
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Otherwise the good genes are diluted back into the population
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and lost. Evolution is a religion of
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death. Death is actually the hero of
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the plot. If the Bible is true, then man
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brought death into the world. If evolution is true, death
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brought man into the world. These two views cannot possibly
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be more opposite. Somebody is wrong.
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And I enjoy showing them who they are.
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And that's why I'm here. OK?
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Now the Bible says clearly that by one man sin came into the
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world and death by sin. The reason we have death and
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suffering today is because of man's disobedience to the
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Creator. The Bible says by man came death
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in Adam all die. We have suffering and death
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because of man's disobedience. If evolution is true, you could
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read Charles Darwin's book, page 170 or page 217, he said.
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Hey, death and struggle for life is the is a wonderful thing.
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That's how we get ahead. OK?
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Now the creation view says there was a flood about 4400 years
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ago. Now this would make a few
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predictions based on the idea that there was a universal
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flood. I think I could predict that the
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Earth will have hundreds of layers of strata.
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Floods automatically do that. Moving water sorts particles and
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all sorts of layers. You can get a jar of dirt, add
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some water to it and shake it up and set it down.
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And in 20 seconds you'll have layers forming in your jar.
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Moving water automatically sorts particles.
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It's called hydrologic sorting. Engineers ought to know about
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that. I predict, based on the Bible
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teaching of the flood, that there will be billions of
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fossils, including coal and oil, found in those layers of
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sedimentary rock that we find all over the earth.
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I predict there'll be huge canyons and deltas showing
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evidence of rapid in massive erosion.
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I predict there will be legends of this worldwide flood found in
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cultures all over the world. That's a prediction based on the
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biblical view, Bible biblical view.
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Of creation is certainly scientific.
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It makes predictions OK. I predict there'll be petrified
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trees in the vertical position extending through all of these
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layers. Thousands and thousands of these
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trees have been found around the world, petrified, standing up,
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connecting layers that some people want you to believe are
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different ages. Now I don't know how long a dead
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tree stands up around here before it falls down, but up in
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Pensacola you get maybe 5 or 10 years maximum before the tree
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falls over. And yet they're telling us these
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layers are different ages. We have dozens of pictures of
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these Poly straight fossils on our website doctordino.com.
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Now if somebody wants you to believe the layers are different
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ages by millions of years, well, they're welcome to teach you
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whatever they want. But this is simply not in in
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accordance with the evidence. I believe the Bible would
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predict we would find things like this Poly straight fossils.
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A worldwide flood would do that. Now science means knowledge.
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OK, a more. An expanded definition of
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science means knowledge gained by observation and study and
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testing. My contention is there is
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absolutely nothing scientific about the evolution theory.
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If we define what we mean by evolution carefully, which I
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want to do in my last few minutes here, I like science.
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I taught high school science for 15 years.
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I love the study of science. I am not against science, but
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I'm against using lies to support a theory.
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And I'm certainly against telling people that science can
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go farther than it really can. OK now.
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Texas has a law that requires textbooks to be accurate.
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So does Florida. Florida statute 1, Double O 6
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says there must be accuracy of instructional materials.
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Textbooks ought to be accurate. Wisconsin says textbooks ought
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to be accurate. Alabama says textbooks shall be
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adequate and current. California says textbooks shall
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be factually accurate. Minnesota says a teacher shall
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not deliberately suppress or distort subject matter.
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These are all wonderful laws, but not one of those states
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enforces them. The textbook says we have
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evidence of evolution. OK, what kind of evidence do
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they give? This guy says evolution is fact,
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not theory. Birds arose from non birds and
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humans from non humans. No person who pretends to any
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understanding of the natural world can deny these facts.
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Well, it's OK to make a statement like that, but that's
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just a mantra that doesn't make it true because he states that
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even if he states it loudly and forcefully, that doesn't make it
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true. OK, the word evolution has six
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different meanings. First of all, there would have
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to be cosmic evolution. That would be the origin of
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time, space matter. They try to answer that with The
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Big Bang theory, with which there are numerous problems.
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We cover that on our videotape #1.
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The second meaning or level or stage of the evolution theory
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would have to be chemical evolution.
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If The Big Bang produced hydrogen, well then how did we
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get all these other elements? They want me to believe that
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uranium evolved from hydrogen. That's Oh yeah, you get fusion
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in stars. Well, first place, you can't
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fuse past iron #1. And secondly, if you want the
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stars to produce the elements, you have a chicken and an egg
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problem here. Which came first?
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The elements to make the stars or the stars to make the
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elements? You have a real problem here.
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But they never talk about chemical evolution.
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I'd like to hear that answer tonight.
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Thirdly, we'd have to have stellar evolution.
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The stars would have to evolve. Nobody's ever proven the
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formation of anyone star. We see a few, a few spots
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getting brighter, and they're assuming a star is forming.
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No, it could be the dust is clearing.
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It could be a supernova taking place.
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There's there's all kinds of explanations.
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Nobody's ever proven a star can form.
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And yet it's known now that there are about 11 trillion
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stars per person on this planet. Each of you can own 11 trillion
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of them. How did the stars evolve?
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Fourthly, we have to have organic evolution, the origin of
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life. How did life get started?
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Fifthly is macro evolution, where an animal changes to a
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different kind of animal. Nobody's ever seen any of these
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first five. Lastly is what's called
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microevolution. I object to the term, but they
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use it, so I'll use it. Microevolution tells us there
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are varieties within the same kind.
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Big dogs. Little dogs.
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OK, this one happens. The first five are purely
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religious, and if you want to believe in those first five, you
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enjoy yourself. But don't call it science.
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And don't make me pay to teach that to the next generation of
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kids as part of science, because it's not.
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It's nothing but a religion they teach 20 billion years ago, Big
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Bang and you know. That's what.
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That's what the evolution theory is based on.
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You have to have an origin .18 or 20 billion years ago there
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was a Big Bang. I think the evolution theory, as
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is currently taught in our textbooks is totally
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unscientific. There is no not a shred of
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evidence to back it up. And I simply resent paying for
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it. So my position is that the
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evolution theory, which teaches clearly 20 billion years ago Big
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Bang, then it says millions of years of torrential rains
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created the oceans as the Earth cooled down, you know, cooled
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down into a rocky crust and then oceans formed over millions of
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years. This textbook says.
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Swirling in the waters of the oceans is a bubbling broth of
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complex chemicals. Progress from a complex chemical
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soup to a living Organism is very slow.
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Sure is. It don't even happen.
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That's how slow it is. This guy said the first self
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replicating systems must have emerged in this organic soup.
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So according to the evolution theory, 20 billion years ago,
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Big Bang 4.6 billion years ago, the Earth cooled down.
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It rained on the rocks for millions of years and turned
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them into soup. And the soup came alive 3
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billion years ago. So great, great, great, great,
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great, great, great Grandpa was soup.
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OK. Now it's true there's a lot of
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dogs in the world, but they didn't come from a rock for
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three points 4 billion years ago.
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Whatever you want to say. So the evolution is a dying
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religion surviving only on tax dollars.
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Evolution theory is positively anti science.
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There's not a shred of real evidence to support any of the
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theories except OFT repeating lies.
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Let's define one more term in my last 30 seconds.
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Stupid, lacking normal intelligence.
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Foolish, silly. A stupid idea.
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Dull and boring. Evolution is not even a good
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theory. I think it is stupid.
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Thank you. Professors, you'll now have 12
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minutes to present your opening arguments and additional 5
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minutes to rebuttal Dr. Hoeven's position and state a question
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back to him. Thank you.
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Well, I suppose you'd like to know what I teach when I teach
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evolution. I think you should take a look
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at the black sheet up here to see what the definition of
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evolution is. Biological evolution is a change
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in the gene pool of population over time.
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It's really very simple. Do we have a gene pool?
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Do we have DNA? Well, of course we do.
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Every living thing has DNA. Does it change?
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Well, of course it does. We can see it change.
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We know what DNA sequencing is. We do it all the time.
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We can check the genes in any plant or animal now that we want
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to. Has there been a time, enough,
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enough time for that to happen? Well, of course there has.
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If you'll take a look at the the, the green sheet over here,
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you'll see that the age of the Earth has been found out by
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astronomers studying the age of the Earth, the geologists of the
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age of the Earth. We've used the radioactivity to
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find out the age. We've used plate tectonics and
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movement of planets. We use biology.
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And what's interesting about these things is that they've all
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arrived at the same answer using different science.
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If one of them had found a different answer, there would
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have been something wrong. But they didn't.
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The astronomers agreed with the geologists, and the geologists
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agreed with radioactivity, and the radioactivity agreed in
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plate tectonics. They all agreed on a basic time
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that we've just heard 4 1/2 billion years old.
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Now, how do I how do I try to get this across to my students?
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Well, I talked to them about natural selection and what
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natural selection really means, if you look at the red card down
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here, is that everything that has genes overproduces.
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Everything that has DNA overproduces.
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So there's always more population than can can be
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there. Let me give you an example.
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If you started out with two cockroaches and cockroaches
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lived in a perfect place, a cockroach perfect place, at the
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end of seven months there'd be 164 billion of them.
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Well, there's not 164 billion of them because there's no perfect
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place for them. Instead, they're in competition
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with each other. They're in competition for food,
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they're in competition for space, and they're in
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competition for mating. So what happens is that there
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has to be a survival. Well, who survives?
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Some people say the survival of the fittest.
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Well, that means you don't understand evolution.
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It's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the
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one that can live long enough to find a mate and reproduce.
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Ants work together. Only one of them is going to
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reproduce. The rest of them are going to
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try to help somebody reproduce. So it's survival of the fit, not
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survival of the fittest. And then of course, what happens
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is those individuals get to reproduce and that species
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survives. But look, we talked about
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billions and billions of cockroaches not surviving.
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Why is that? And the answer is they had some
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genetic changes that weren't good.
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The idea is to have some tiny little changes in your DNA.
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Maybe it takes five or 6720 generations for it to show up
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even, but when it does show up, it's good.
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Evolution is extremely inefficient.
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So is little synthesis inefficient?
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Biological processes are inefficient.
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It's just a bad design. But what happens is some of them
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make it and you know, some of them don't.
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So when I'm doing this, I I I have to use some kind of a
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science. So if you look at the black
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sheet down here with the blue markings around it, I talk about
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fossils, and I talk about genetics, and I talk about
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homology or the structures of plants and animals, and I talk
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about distribution in the planet, and I talk about
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Embryology. But what's interesting about
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these things is they all agree they all approach evolution from
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a different point of view. And yet they agree if we didn't
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have any fossils at all, not it wouldn't matter.
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We still have enough information to prove that evolution took
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place. If we didn't have any homologic
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structures to look at, it doesn't matter.
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We still have enough evolution of facts to show that it took
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place. Now I have.
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I had a problem solved for me by the Supreme Court.
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It happens that that there have been 9 cases brought by
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creationists to the federal courts against evolution.
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They were competing against each other in the Supreme Court.
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The first one of those cases that really was important took
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place in 1968. But in 1982, the Supreme Court
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case of McClellan versus the Kansas Board of Education ruled
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in a decision that gave a detailed definition of the term
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science, the court declared that creation science is not, in
21:05
fact, a science. What that meant is that people
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were teaching high school like me at that time.
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That meant I couldn't teach creation.
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It was a religion, you know, I could teach.
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I could teach evolution because it fit the definition of
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science. Now that that court case was
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challenged by two teachers, one of them challenged it on the
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basis that he had the right to teach because of freedom of
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speech. He could do what he wanted to do
21:35
in his class. Well, he lost that case, and he
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lost it very simply because he was trying to teach creation in
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a public school that doesn't allow religion to be taught in a
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public school. He lost.
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He should have known better to bring the case.
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And then another guy challenged it.
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He challenged it on the idea that, well, I'll make my own
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curriculum. I'll show those guys.
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Well, of course. What happened is the school
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board said, hey fella, you don't make the curriculum in this
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place, We make it. And he lost the case too.
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Now, I hope that makes you understand why the creationists
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want to get to the 7th grade. They're going to get to the 7th
22:13
grade because that's the only place you can talk to school
22:17
boards who don't know anything about evolution.
22:20
Let me explain this to you. When I'm going to use a
22:23
textbook, what do I use? I use one like this one.
22:27
Now, this textbook is a pretty basic text.
22:31
It could be used in the University of Florida,
22:33
University of Michigan, and any any large school in the United
22:36
States. It's small schools.
22:38
As a matter of fact, I looked at the six books that are used here
22:41
at Embry Riddle University. They're great.
22:43
One of the evolution, one of the ecology books here, has one of
22:48
the best chapters on evolution I've ever seen.
22:50
It's a great book. Anyway, this is what I had to
22:54
use. And if you think about it a
22:56
second, all the facts in here have to be able to stand
22:59
scientific scrutiny. Somebody is looking at these
23:02
babies, you know. Well, here's what you find out.
23:07
There is not a school in the United States that does
23:11
scientific research that accepts creationism.
23:15
Not one major college or university in the United States
23:19
accepts creationism or intelligent design.
23:23
Matter of fact, we see it a different way.
23:26
I really checked. I mean, I really looked and I
23:29
couldn't find a major college or university in the world that
23:34
accepted creation or intelligent design.
23:37
Now, teacher, I've got to find out about this stuff.
23:42
So where did these guys get their ideas?
23:44
So I ordered some Bob Jones textbooks.
23:48
This is a Bob Jones life science book.
23:51
They use it in the eighth grade. It has 500 pages in it.
23:54
It has 250 references to biblical verses to explain
23:59
science. It has not one, not one
24:03
reference to a scientific journal or book.
24:06
It uses the term God 380 times, Satan three times, and hell
24:12
twice. Here's the biology book that Bob
24:17
Jones puts out for high school students.
24:19
It has 692 pages, 350 references to biblical verses to prove
24:26
science. Not one reference to any
24:30
scientific journal or scientific book.
24:33
It mentions God 600 times in Satan 40 times.
24:40
This book is put right here in Florida.
24:43
You know what's a creation book? Because it says so.
24:44
Biology. God's living creation.
24:46
It's a creation book. This company claims that they
24:50
are the largest textbook publishers for creation of
24:54
schools in the United States. Now remember, we're talking
24:56
creation of schools. These things would never be
24:59
allowed in a public school because they're religious.
25:02
This book has 650 pages in it, 150 references to the Bible.
25:07
No science references at all to any book, any article, anything.
25:12
It mentions God 425 times. Well, I'd like to ask a
25:21
question. You know, when I come before a
25:24
group like this, and I and I and I want to show you that I've
25:28
tried to keep up with things. I mean, I read the Scientific
25:31
American and I trust the Scientific American.
25:34
I get a book that's specially put out for teachers called the
25:37
National Center for Science Education.
25:39
You know, it has a lot about about evolution and creation.
25:43
I trust that book. I I go to the bookstore and get
25:46
and get discovery. I trust that too.
25:48
And I trust the National Geographic.
25:50
They've been at it 100 years. They know how old the earth is.
25:54
So I'm looking out at this audience.
25:55
You look like a really great group, lots of college students,
25:58
lots, lots of creationists in here.
26:00
I'd like to know where I stand before I go any further.
26:04
How many of you folks would like to see every Riddle University
26:11
be the first university in the world to accept creation and
26:18
intelligent design in their science department?
26:21
Can I show your hands? Thank you very much.
26:28
That's that's exactly what I expected, you know?
26:32
OK, now I want to I'm, I'm often asked, well how how do you
26:41
handle the stuff with the with the students as far as the the
26:45
the evidence is collected? Well, let me just give you a
26:49
list of things here that are the pieces of equipment that
26:54
scientists use to study evolution.
26:57
Computers, ultrasound, core, boring sonar, lasers, deep sea
27:03
vessels, chromatography, electron microscopes, DNA
27:06
sequencing, ultraviolet light, radioactive dating, television,
27:10
electrophoresis, X-rays, robotics, spectroscopes,
27:13
photography, and Geiger counters.
27:15
Those pieces of equipment are used in chemistry, physics,
27:20
geology, and evolution. We get the same results they do.
27:26
There are people in here that I imagine would not want a crime
27:31
to be solved because you wouldn't believe the evidence
27:36
that was collected by using these methods.
27:39
These are the methods that evolution uses.
27:52
Professors, you'll have an additional 5 minutes to
27:55
rebuttal. Doctor Hoeven's opening
27:58
statement and to pose question or a question to him.
28:08
I am curious about your presentation which was you know,
28:12
I'm. I am impressed.
28:14
The only one I've heard speak that quickly was a Texas
28:18
auctioneer, but I tried really hard to concentrate and get it
28:22
all. The earth was created 6000 years
28:25
ago in six days by God. I am confused.
28:30
Being philosophically consistent and being very honest person.
28:33
I'm sure you can tell me where God came from.
28:37
And in addition, in addition, once you've told me where God
28:41
comes from, please try to clarify how you can figure that
28:46
a spiritual force can have an impact on a material universe to
28:51
create it. I think that some years ago we
28:55
already talked about that kind of thing, and philosophical
28:58
circles at any rate, by posing the question if angels are made
29:03
of spiritual matter, and a pen is made of material matter, and
29:09
spiritual matter displaces no space, how many angels can dance
29:15
on the tip of a pen? I have a.
29:20
Sense of sort of reversal experience here, but but please
29:25
do go ahead. You got 5 minutes now I just
29:29
wonder which question. That's all right.
29:30
You may take the first of the minutes we're.
29:31
Supposed to do one question at a time.
29:32
Which one would you like? That was part of the format for
29:36
the debate. So which?
29:37
Which? I want you to fill in the story
29:39
of the rest of the beginning of the universe.
29:42
God spiritual matter Impact on material matter.
29:45
OK. So two questions, all right.
29:48
Go ahead. All right, Your question, where
29:50
did God come from? Assumes that you're thinking of
29:52
the wrong. Obviously it displays that
29:54
you're thinking of the wrong God.
29:56
Because the God of the Bible is not affected by time, space, or
29:59
matter. If he's if he's affected by
30:01
time, space, or matter, he's not God.
30:04
Time, space, and matter is what we call a continuum.
30:06
All of them have to come into existence at the same instant.
30:09
Because if there were a matter but no space, where would you
30:11
put it? If there were a matter in space
30:14
but no time, when would you put it?
30:16
You cannot have time, space, or matter independently.
30:19
They have to come into existence simultaneously.
30:22
The Bible answers that in 10 words in the beginning, there's
30:25
time. God created the heaven, there's
30:28
space and the earth. There's matter.
30:30
So you have time, space. Matter created a Trinity of
30:32
trinities there, just as you know, time is past, present,
30:35
future. Space has length, width, height.
30:36
Matter has solid, liquid gas. You have a Trinity of trinities
30:39
created instantaneously, and the God who created them has to be
30:43
outside of them. If he's limited by time, he's
30:46
not God. The guy who created this
30:48
computer is not in the computer. He's not running around and
30:50
they're changing the numbers on the screen.
30:52
OK, the God who created this universe is outside of the
30:55
universe. He's above it, beyond it, in it,
30:57
through it. He's he's unaffected by it.
30:59
So for and the I, the concept that of a spiritual force cannot
31:04
have any effect on a material body, Well then I guess you'd
31:07
have to explain to me things like emotions and love and
31:10
hatred and envy and jealousy and and rationality.
31:13
I mean, if your brain is just a random collection of chemicals
31:16
that form by chance over billions of years, how on earth
31:18
can you trust your own reasoning processes and the thoughts that
31:21
you you think? OK, so your your your question,
31:28
where did God come from? Is assuming a limited God and
31:32
that's your problem. The God that I worship is not
31:34
limited by time, space, or matter.
31:36
If I could fit the infinite God in my 3 LB brain, he would not
31:39
be worth worshipping, that's for certain.
31:41
So that's the God that I worship.
31:42
Thank you. Would you please present a
31:53
question to the other side? I was curious about the previous
32:01
presentation. He said he trusted National
32:03
Geographic. Just to give you one example.
32:05
OK, the Bible teaches clearly that the birds were made on the
32:09
5th day. And the reptiles were made on
32:12
the 6th day. OK, evolution teaches exactly
32:15
the opposite. Reptiles first and then birds.
32:17
The Bible says birds first, then reptiles.
32:19
Actually, everything about the evolution theory is backwards to
32:22
what the Bible teaches. Somebody's clearly wrong on
32:24
this. This guy says dinosaurs are
32:26
alive as birds. Scientists says, OK, well, this
32:29
is absurd. Obviously, nobody's ever seen
32:31
any animal produce a different kind of animal.
32:33
They can believe that if they want.
32:34
Here's the USA TODAY. Missing link discovered October
32:38
1999. National Geographic, one that he
32:40
trusts. Missing link.
32:41
Breaking news, folks, we have found National Geographic.
32:44
November 1999. The missing Link few months
32:47
later. Oops, it was a mistake.
32:50
Some Chinese guy had taken a couple of fossils and glued them
32:52
together and fooled everybody. National Geographic paid I think
32:56
$80,000 for that fossil. It was incredible the amount of
33:00
money they paid for that. And there's all kinds of it.
33:02
I can show you over and over where National Geographic is not
33:05
trustworthy. The entire argument that I heard
33:07
a few minutes ago was majority opinion supports evolution.
33:13
OK, first place. I don't think that's true.
33:15
OK, How many of you in here tonight at a secular university
33:18
do not believe the evolution theory that they present?
33:23
OK, how many do believe the evolution theory that they
33:25
present? OK, we could take account here.
33:28
I suspect that was majority for the creation side.
33:30
We can count if you like, but I know this.
33:32
About 9% of the population in Gallup polls and surveys taken
33:36
says they believe in atheistic evolution.
33:38
No God is involved, 90% say yes, there was a God involved and 50%
33:43
of the entire population says God did it in the last 10,000
33:46
years. So if you're using majority
33:47
opinion as your argument, I think that's obviously
33:51
historically you can prove. That's pretty easy to prove
33:53
wrong. Majority opinion proves nothing.
33:55
Majority's often been wrong, so. All of the experts on birds are
33:58
saying the dinosaurs could not possibly have turned to birds.
34:01
There are just millions and millions of differences.
34:03
So I guess I'd be curious with all the evidence that we've
34:05
gathered over the years, why you would think a dinosaur turned
34:08
into a bird When dinosaurs, reptiles produce reptiles, birds
34:12
produce birds. I mean, there's no evidence of
34:14
this. So my question, Why do you think
34:15
dinosaurs turn to birds? If you think that evolution is a
34:22
a process where all kinds of DNA and all kinds of animals are
34:28
making changes, some of that changes in DNA are going to turn
34:31
out to be pretty good. Some of them aren't.
34:34
If we take a look at an example from your research saying that,
34:42
how about how about Noah's Ark? Have one kind of animal that
34:51
evolved into dogs, foxes and wolves in 6000 years?
34:59
Not possible at all? Not couldn't even begin to
35:03
happen in 6000 years. Noah's Ark.
35:05
One kind of horse developing into a zebra and a donkey?
35:11
Not possible. No, there's no way DNA can
35:14
change that fast. What evolutionists are saying is
35:18
the the process of DNA changing takes a long time.
35:22
You see, the creationist want it both ways.
35:24
They want to make fun of evolution and saying, well, why
35:27
does that thing want to do that? Well, it doesn't want to do it.
35:30
DNA is changing randomly, but at the same time they want to say
35:35
that you can have all kinds of animals evolved in 6000 years,
35:39
just hopped off of a ship some place that Noah was running.
35:42
It's impossible. There's absolutely no way that
35:46
that amount of DNA could change in 6000 years.
35:50
The only way you can solve that is by saying the usual way.
35:53
It must have been a miracle. Well, in science we don't talk
35:56
about miracles. We talk about evidence.
36:00
And that's what's important to us.
36:02
And I kind of resent Dr. Hovine telling us this is what we
36:07
believe, and this is what I predict.
36:10
My prediction, my prediction is, is that evolution has been going
36:13
on for a long time. It will continue to go on and
36:15
it'll go on the same way it's always developed.
36:19
DNA will change bit little by little, and plants and animals
36:24
will change. I have a couple of creationist
36:29
magazines at home that tell that told me in the creationist
36:33
magazine that the reason that we have thorns on blackberries and
36:37
roses and the reason we have a toothache is because Adam and
36:42
Eve fell from grace when they sinned.
36:44
I have a hard time accepting that as scientific evidence.
36:47
I would rather use as my scientific evidence tracing the
36:51
origin of of thorns and and the origins of teeth back to their
36:57
beginning rather than decline. Right.
36:59
Right. Relying on the fact that Adam
37:01
and Eve sinned and that brought a disaster into the world.
37:04
I'm done. Professors, would you like to
37:09
formulate a question or another statement?
37:12
You do have two minutes. We have more time.
37:15
Do we have more time? You will and after 5 minutes.
37:19
How many? After Mr. Hogan goes.
37:21
I I didn't. Hear a word you.
37:23
Said I I We can't understand. You.
37:25
I'm sorry. You'll have 5 more minutes after
37:27
Mr. Hogan has his SO. What were the 2 minutes that you
37:30
said that we had time right now is?
37:31
It around the board one minute and 47 seconds and.
37:35
We just talked about it. And who has that time right now?
37:38
You do any any three of us? Yes, Sir.
37:40
Oh. OK, just trying to get the I'm
37:42
sorry image straight. Thank you.
37:44
I, I, I do wonder about my earlier question.
37:47
I don't feel comfortable about it's being answered.
37:49
That is, you keep insisting that the God of the Bible in some way
37:53
is responsible for all this. You may, even if you were to
37:56
prove that there's some kind of spiritual force, it is not
37:58
necessarily the God of the Bible.
38:00
So you're taking a giant leap there.
38:02
So I think there's a lot of that has to do with lots of faith
38:04
that has to be developed in there.
38:06
And I see that from our group here.
38:08
And I think Mark Twain said about faith that faith is
38:12
believing. Something you know ain't true
38:15
that's that's I I don't think you can rely on faith.
38:18
I don't. I think you need to if you want
38:20
to be honest, intellectually honest you've got to come up
38:23
with something a little bit more solid than just to buy in to the
38:27
fact that 80% of US Americans are God believers and only 14%
38:33
are not. So I'm I don't know is is that
38:38
can you answer that or? Absolutely.
38:40
All right. That'd be nice.
38:42
What was the question? Phrase the question again,
38:43
please. You didn't really get you made a
38:46
statement. I didn't hear a question.
38:47
What do you want to hear? OK, my original question was for
38:51
you to show where the deity comes from and you keep
38:57
insisting that it is the God of the Bible, but that is another
39:02
leap of faith that seems to be part of that.
39:06
Can you sort of drop that out a little bit more and?
39:11
Let me say one thing also about the the story that you gave
39:15
about the National Geographic, the OR or was it the Scientific
39:20
American with the the bird and dinosaur thing.
39:26
It shows that the scientific community is working, these
39:29
people are in dialogue, error may occur where reason is left
39:34
free to correct it. And in your system it's nailed
39:38
down by the Bible. And no, I cannot challenge that.
39:42
With the invention of all kinds of strange beings, I just
39:46
looked. This is very much news to me.
39:48
I looked at one of the books that Jim has here, where the
39:51
assertion is that evolution is inspired by Satan and what now
39:56
we have. Thank you, Sir.
39:56
We're going to cut you off and you can be back in 5 minutes.
39:59
Carry on. I guess I'm still a little
40:03
baffled what the question was. If your question, if you're
40:06
going back to you didn't like my answer of how God did it.
40:10
God was just God is outside of time, space matter.
40:14
I think you need to stop and look at the theory that you are
40:16
believing in, apparently because there are so many thousands of
40:20
unanswered questions. See it's not much easier for me
40:23
to believe in the beginning God than to believe believe in the
40:27
beginning dirt. Or matter the evolutionist does
40:30
not answer the question. There's six different types of
40:33
evolution, as I shared clearly earlier.
40:36
If The Big Bang theory is true, then I would like to know what
40:39
exploded and where did it come from and where did the energy
40:42
come from and where did the space come from for the matter
40:44
to expand into? And where did the organization
40:47
come from and where did the information come from?
40:50
There's a whole host of questions that are a whole lot
40:51
harder for you to answer Then in the beginning.
40:54
God, where is it? Where does information come
40:56
from? Man is this universe is not just
40:59
random molecules circulating around.
41:00
I mean it, it carries information.
41:02
Just like a book is so much more than ink on a paper.
41:06
It carries information. And the DNA is more than just
41:09
chemicals. It's information.
41:13
So the evolutionist never answers the question, where did
41:15
this information come from? Where did the energy come from?
41:18
Where did the matter itself come from?
41:20
And you gripe about my belief. I I believe by faith in the
41:23
beginning. God, I know, I I admit I don't
41:25
understand that. But you believe hundreds of
41:27
things by faith. You don't even understand that
41:29
you're believing by faith. You think matter is either
41:31
eternal or can create itself. What's the two choices?
41:35
How did matter get here? The world is here.
41:37
How? Where did the matter come from?
41:39
Did it just happen by itself, or is it all just imaginary?
41:42
We're not really here at all. You're faced with the option of
41:45
we're not really here, this is all just our imagination.
41:47
Or it had a beginning. Or matter is eternal, which is
41:51
in both. Both of the second two options
41:53
are in violation of the obvious laws of thermodynamics.
41:56
Matter doesn't create itself and everything degrades over time.
42:01
So either it had a beginning or it didn't.
42:04
If it had a beginning, then what was before the beginning?
42:06
I mean there's so many thousands of things you take by faith.
42:08
You say, I say in the beginning God and you say, well this
42:11
matter somehow either was always here or created itself and then
42:15
this matter somehow became alive.
42:18
And then this first living thing learned how to reproduce and
42:22
then it learned how to make something other than its kind.
42:24
I mean, even though nobody's ever seen that, nobody's ever
42:27
seen a dog produce a non dog. Or you mentioned about, you
42:30
know, the dog fact that a wolf and a fox and a dog coming from
42:34
a common ancestor of Noah's Ark in only 4400 years, for heaven's
42:38
sake, you believe they came from a rock?
42:41
I mean, come on, I don't think my theory is that silly at all.
42:45
So if my answer to your question is still the same, I believe in
42:49
the beginning. God, I do take that by faith.
42:51
Here's the major difference, major difference that I don't
42:54
think you're going to understand.
42:55
I admit mine is a religion. They do not admit theirs is a
43:01
religion. They want you to think what they
43:04
believe is science and all of you should pay for their
43:07
religion to be taught in this university.
43:10
And that's the situation we have today.
43:11
And that's unfortunate. They've always been situations
43:13
where the majority taught something.
43:15
I mean, in the Soviet Union, 15 years ago, if you stood up and
43:17
said, hey kids, I don't believe in communism, I think capitalism
43:20
is a better system. You would be in Siberia if you
43:23
survived. And here in Emory University if
43:26
you stood up in your classroom and said I don't believe this
43:28
evolution theory is true, I think it's pretty obvious I must
43:31
have been a designer to this system.
43:33
You would be an intellectual Siberia.
43:34
You would lose your job. It has happened to hundreds of
43:38
teachers just simply for standing up and say, look, I
43:40
think the evidence is here folks.
43:41
There must have been a designer if I asked you to explain how
43:44
computers came to be, but you cannot use man as your answer.
43:50
I only want a purely naturalistic explanation for the
43:53
origin of computers. Purely naturalistic.
43:56
The answer has to lie within the computer.
43:59
How did these molecules get together?
44:00
How did this data get together? How did these plastic molecules
44:03
come together? And the and the different
44:04
silicone chips? How did it happen?
44:06
Your answer has to lie in the computer.
44:08
I've already eliminated the only obvious answer to the problem at
44:12
the beginning. By my definition, they're trying
44:14
to eliminate the only answer to the only logical answer to the
44:17
question by their definition of science.
44:19
They want to define science as things that we can observe and
44:22
test and demonstrate the natural world.
44:23
OK, well then that eliminates both evolution and creation.
44:27
Both are unobserved. We don't see anything changed.
44:29
We don't see anything created from nothing.
44:31
Here's the problem. Both creation and evolution are
44:33
religious. I admit mine's a religion.
44:35
They don't admit theirs is a religion.
44:37
And all of us are paying for their religion to be taught in
44:38
the school system. And I for one resent that.
44:42
So my answer is still the same. God did it.
44:44
My question. For them.
44:54
Now your question for them, quickly please.
44:56
OK, my question for them. I have several thousand
45:00
questions. I guess I'd like to ask, does
45:03
your textbook you're holding in front of you that you said you
45:06
trust here at used at this university?
45:08
Does the your textbook teach that there are vestigial
45:11
structures? If you can maybe just look in
45:13
the index under the word vestigial.
45:14
I'm going to take back at 5 minutes.
45:16
Or just ask a question. Yeah, just a question.
45:18
You already had your 5. OK, does your textbook teach
45:21
that the appendix is vestigial and is no longer needed?
45:23
Even though all doctors know the appendix is not vestigial, it
45:26
has been proven to be part of the immune system.
45:28
If your appendix is taken out, you can live just like you can
45:31
live without both your arms and both your eyes.
45:32
It doesn't prove you don't need it.
45:33
So just simple question, does your textbook teach the kids
45:37
that there are vestigial structures and that is therefore
45:39
evidence for evolution? I think you have that one of
45:41
your posters here, if I'm not mistaken.
45:42
Yes, it does teach us. There's vestigial structures,
45:49
professors. It doesn't teach us there's a
45:52
God, though. You have 5 minutes.
45:56
I don't. I don't get the point.
45:59
That's the way that's the way DNA works.
46:02
There are there are certain changes in the DNA molecules.
46:06
That will make some organs more efficient and some less
46:09
efficient. That's just the way it is.
46:12
You can find the vestigial structures on plants.
46:14
Also, if we have you and I have no control over what goes on in
46:20
the DNA in our body, we just pass it on to our offspring.
46:24
But to to say that, to make one example like that and say that's
46:28
going to get rid of the theory of evolution is ridiculous.
46:31
We've got all these other proofs that about evolution.
46:34
Vestigial structures are just one tiny part of that.
46:41
OK, let me let me ask. Let me say another thing.
46:46
I know where God came from. Man made him.
46:56
I also know where your computer came from, you know, from
46:59
science. It was put together by people
47:01
that understood physics and chemistry.
47:04
It was put together by people that are so molecules and atoms.
47:07
It was put together by people with intelligence, people that
47:10
knew how to love and hate and and carry on biological
47:15
relationships because they have intelligence.
47:18
We got intelligence because we have brains.
47:20
We've got brains because we've got DNA.
47:23
It doesn't make any sense at all to say that.
47:25
Or the people that don't have religion, don't have feelings,
47:30
don't follow the law. The Constitution of our country
47:34
does not mention God or religion.
47:36
It's a we are a nation of laws. We're a nation of laws because
47:40
we're a nation of people that have intelligence.
47:43
That's the way it is. That's the way animals operate,
47:46
some animals. Evolved a different way.
47:49
They evolved so they could fly, or they could crawl, or they
47:52
could run and what was successful for them worked out
47:56
for them. What's successful for us is that
47:58
we have a good brain and it's and we'll have to wait and see
48:04
what happens. Not in our lifetimes, but all
48:08
animals are in the same boat. All plants are in the same boat.
48:11
Sometimes when people were were doing this kind of stuff, people
48:14
are always thinking about human beings.
48:17
You can find the evolutionary theory in any any part of life.
48:21
It doesn't matter if you're talking about Maple trees, I I
48:24
still want an answer to the question of how did all these
48:29
different things evolve in just 6000 years when it isn't
48:34
possible. It's mathematically not possible
48:37
if it were by now. Farmers would have bred a
48:41
different species. When he says something like,
48:44
well, you breed dogs, you always get dogs.
48:46
Well, of course you do, because you can't change them.
48:48
In 6000 years, if you could, farmers would have bred
48:51
something different. We've been breeding Ant plants
48:54
and animals for 4000 years. We can't do it simply because it
48:59
takes too long. The Earth is old enough for
49:02
evolution to have taken place, but we haven't had enough time.
49:07
They get different kinds of animals, starting from Noah's
49:10
Ark. Ryan Hall, You want to say
49:14
something? We have a minute again.
49:16
Yeah, we got one and a. Half I guess.
49:17
Oh my God yeah I do. One thing that sort of crossed
49:22
my mind as you were speaking is the difference between science
49:25
and religion. And it seems to me there is a
49:28
very clear cut difference. Science is self correcting.
49:33
In the sense that the battle of disagreement will edit out that
49:39
which is wrong, and by essentially falsifiability, That
49:44
is, In other words, if a scientist advanced a particular
49:50
idea, he also can tell what particular conditions must be
49:55
the case for him to retract that idea.
49:57
And this is something that is absent in religion.
49:59
That is, religion is seeking truth.
50:02
Absolute truth and charges science with not finding truth,
50:08
which it isn't. Trying.
50:09
Science works with probability and with self correction.
50:14
Religion. Ultimately, I know I am right
50:18
and I'm not allowing anything else.
50:21
This is what is so devastating to try to talk to anybody who is
50:24
a person of faith. You can't get anywhere because
50:27
they'll weasel out just about anything you try to.
50:30
To offer by inventing new and new and different
50:34
interpretations and new passages of the Bible and whatnot.
50:38
And everybody else of course is wrong except the one person is
50:40
looking at it. That kind of system, I think,
50:44
cannot be possibly science. Well, he said science is self
50:49
correcting. I agree.
50:50
I happen to like science quite a bit.
50:52
But see, the creation view doesn't have to be constantly
50:54
corrected, because it's right. OK, And you?
51:00
I like the answer that one gentleman gave, He said,
51:03
Obviously the computer is here because of man, because of
51:06
intelligence. I mean, obviously this took a
51:09
designer. Well, duh, So did the universe.
51:14
So did the single cell in your body.
51:16
So did every living creature. I mean, you can't explain the
51:19
computer inside the computer, can you?
51:22
And you can't explain the creation inside the creation.
51:25
There has to be something above an intelligent designer and you
51:30
talk about devastating to talk to a person of faith.
51:33
What you said a few sentences earlier was or what the other
51:36
gentleman said was, of course we don't see changes.
51:39
Farmers have been raising dogs for, you know, 4000 years and we
51:42
don't see changes because it takes too long.
51:47
If you don't see faith in there, I can't help you, OK.
51:51
You are relying on the unseen. Oh, yes.
51:54
Long ago and far away. Evolution has got to be the
52:00
biggest fairy tale for adults ever created.
52:04
Everything you said required faith.
52:06
Well, we see dogs produce dogs. But if you give them billions of
52:09
years, well, OK, you just left science and went to religion and
52:13
didn't even see it. You didn't even see what
52:15
happened in your mind. And one of you teaches a course
52:18
on logic. I mean, if this was a student of
52:19
yours doing this, you'd give them an F And yet your fellow
52:22
professors believe it and you think it's great.
52:24
They jump from faith to science back and forth all the time.
52:28
Well, we see dogs produce dogs, but if we had enough time.
52:30
Stop, stop, stop. You're leaving science right
52:32
that moment. So I've got 3 minutes.
52:35
Let me just cover a couple things that I resent being in
52:38
the textbooks and I would like to hear if this is in your
52:40
textbook. My question is, is this in your
52:42
textbook? And after I show you with you
52:44
the evidence, I want to know why.
52:46
OK, this textbook says many organisms retain traces of their
52:49
evolutionary history. For example, the whale retains
52:51
pelvic and leg bones as useless vestiges.
52:54
Earlier it was mentioned one of the evidences for evolution is
52:58
vestigial organs. Andrew Carnegie left behind
53:00
millions of dollars to start an organization called the National
53:03
Center for Science Education, of which you are a part.
53:05
OK, the National Center for Science Education.
53:08
I was in Berkeley last week. 147 professors at Berkeley refused
53:12
to debate me. Jeannie Scott won't debate me
53:14
for any amount of money on the planet.
53:15
Here's Jeannie Scott right here. I'll fly out at my expense and
53:18
take them all on. This is welcome to the homepage
53:21
of National Center for Science Education, A tax exempt
53:25
nonprofit membership organization working to defend
53:27
the teaching of evolution against sectarian attack.
53:30
We are nationally recognized, clearing house for information
53:33
and advice to keep evolution in the classroom and scientific
53:36
creationism out. The National Center for Science
53:38
Education is a little bitty storefront building in
53:40
Berserkly, California. I was there four days ago and it
53:43
got five people working in this little building and they they
53:46
teach that maybe the cow evolved into the whale.
53:49
That's what their literature teaches.
53:51
This textbook says the whale has a pelvis and a leg bone.
53:54
Whales have hind limb bones that have no function.
53:56
Just imagine whales walking around.
53:58
It's true. These are the bones they're
53:59
talking about right there. Just imagine the whale walking
54:03
around. I'm sorry, I tried and I can't,
54:06
OK, they say the whale's pelvis has no apparent function.
54:10
The whale's pelvis is evidence of its evolution from 4 legged
54:12
land dwelling mammals. This is simply a lie.
54:15
OK? Those little bones are anchor
54:17
points that special muscles attach to that allow the whales
54:20
to reproduce. This has nothing to do with
54:22
whales walking on land, It has to do with making baby whales.
54:26
So either the authors of this textbook are ignorant about
54:29
whale anatomy and certainly shouldn't be talking about it,
54:32
or they're deliberately lying to you and desperate for evidence
54:35
for their theory. So my question is very simple.
54:37
Does your textbook teach the whale has a vestigial pelvis?
54:40
If so, why would you use a biology book in your biology
54:43
class at A at a famous university like this, based on
54:46
an author that doesn't even understand his basic anatomy of
54:48
whales and he's either lying to the students or he's ignorant?
54:51
Why would you use something like that?
54:52
And how could a vestigial structure be evidence for
54:54
evolution when that's an example of losing, not gaining.
54:59
It doesn't tell you how the whale got the legs.
55:00
Oh, it's slowly losing. Well, in the 1st place it's not
55:02
slowly losing. I'm OK, It's a lie.
55:04
Secondly, even if it was, that's the opposite of evolution.
55:08
How on earth can this be evidence for a theory?
55:10
Yes, boys and girls, we're slowly losing things.
55:12
That's how we got it all. Well, duh.
55:16
So my question is simple. Does your book teach there are
55:20
vestigial structures, specifically the whale having a
55:22
vestigial pelvis? If it does, why would you use a
55:25
book like that in a university like this?
55:30
Excuse me, Sir, it's just a quick reminder, we I'll turn
55:35
your mic on in just a second. We're going to go to an
55:40
intermission in one more iteration, so.
55:44
Yes, absolutely. Your table, your table.
55:47
And we're going to go on intermission after that.
55:49
The book does not teach that the whale has a vestigial pelvis.
55:52
That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard of.
55:55
The pelvis is an absolute, necessary thing for the whale.
55:59
He attaches all of his muscles to.
56:00
It is one of the major things that helps him swim.
56:03
I happen to be keeping up with what's going on with the
56:06
evolution of the whale and we have a very good set of.
56:13
Bones saved from fossil records showing that the whales evolved
56:19
through a long period of time from animals that are on land to
56:23
animals that are in the water. We have that evidence, and for
56:27
to say we don't have it, or to say that we're lying is
56:31
disingenuous. To this audience, I I ask you,
56:35
don't believe, Don't believe me? Let me get off the subject a
56:39
second right up there. Because the things we try to do
56:42
in science, we say, let's not believe revelations.
56:46
Just somebody just says I know because I know, I know.
56:49
That's not good enough. Believe authority.
56:52
No, let's not believe authority. Let's not believe any of us up
56:55
here at the table. You folks can get the copy of
57:00
this book or this thing here and Get the facts.
57:05
You don't have to believe me. You don't have to believe him.
57:08
You can find out for yourself. You don't have to trust
57:10
authorities, even me. The second thing is tradition.
57:14
You don't have to trust tradition.
57:16
I mean, what the. I mean.
57:17
Come on. There's different traditions all
57:19
over the world. But we can trust science because
57:22
science should be the same all over the world.
57:24
What I'm trying to say to you is when I teach my classes,
57:28
evidence is what's important. I have no evidence that God
57:32
exists. I have no evidence that there
57:34
was a Noah's Ark. I have no evidence that there
57:37
was an Adam and Eve. I have evidence that whales
57:40
evolved from animals live on land.
57:43
And I can prove it. Well, we, we do have.
57:53
I haven't had anything to say. There's a lot of talking going
57:56
on and that's unusual for me. But the the one thing that we
58:04
can prove by the great philosophical statement Kajito
58:10
ergo assume in Latin, which says I think therefore I am.
58:15
Now what that says is that I exist and prove that I am there
58:21
because I can think, but it doesn't necessarily say that you
58:24
exist. I can't prove that you exist,
58:27
but I can prove. That I exist and I also know
58:33
that I'm here and I'm and and I do believe in you.
58:37
There's high probability that I do believe in you and you are
58:40
here and somehow you got here. And somehow this happened
58:46
probably in the last time between 10 and 20 billion years
58:50
ago, probably to the record of the Earth, which was maybe 4 to
58:55
6 billion years ago. And basic all of this biological
59:01
stuff is very interesting, and it does prove to how science
59:08
brings about to cause things to happen.
59:11
But it's so complicated. It is so, so complicated that
59:19
that it you you can you can confuse the process by
59:24
misinterpreting the results. We do have, as my colleagues
59:29
say, the scientific method and it based on the best information
59:36
that we can put together to form to what we know is true.
59:42
It doesn't mean that we know the truth.
59:44
It means we have maybe some probability of the truth, and
59:47
that may be the best that we will always have but to.
59:55
Just talk about, start talking about chickens and dinosaurs.
59:57
And I like eating chickens because chickens are descendants
1:00:01
of dinosaurs. And every time I eat a chicken
1:00:04
it makes me happy because I think a lot of them ate our
1:00:09
ancestors a long time before that, about 160 million years
1:00:13
ago. So I'm going to, I'm going to
1:00:22
leave with my colleagues and. With the fact that we I exist,
1:00:26
we do think and we are here and and how the record got as to how
1:00:32
got to be here could be debated. We do have information we we
1:00:41
probably miss more information than we than we know.
1:00:44
But I will say this that we've got to be very careful as to how
1:00:51
we interpret the record. But we're trying to to talk
1:00:54
about something because we are, we are subject to ourselves to
1:00:59
to to sink into confusion and to basically involve yourself into
1:01:11
what becomes voodoo science and and that is very, very
1:01:15
dangerous. OK, let me cover 5 main points
1:01:29
here. He said we have evidence of
1:01:31
whales evolving from land animals in the 1st place.
1:01:35
This is absolutely incorrect. OK?
1:01:37
If he's talking about ambilocitas, you need to study
1:01:40
here. This was made mostly of
1:01:41
imagination. If that's your evidence, you
1:01:44
need to study the ambilocitas a little better, OK?
1:01:47
There is overwhelming evidence that ambalocitis is just an
1:01:50
unusual animal, or just an animal that may be still
1:01:52
existing someplace. There were just a few bones
1:01:54
found and a whole lot of plaster of Paris and imagination used to
1:01:57
put it together. Basilosaurus is not an
1:02:00
intermediate. The Serpentine form of the body
1:02:02
and peculiar serrated cheek teeth made it plain that these
1:02:07
animals could not possibly have been ancestral to any modern
1:02:10
whales. This is from one of the experts
1:02:13
on invertebrate history here. The evolutionary hist origin of
1:02:15
whales remains controversial among zoologist Compton's
1:02:18
encyclopedia a couple years ago. Pachacetus, pictured here, is
1:02:22
made from one small piece of a skull, a few piece of jaw, a
1:02:26
small piece of jaw and a few teeth.
1:02:29
You find a piece of the skull, a few teeth on a piece of the jaw,
1:02:32
and that's proof it's intermediate between a whale and
1:02:34
a cow. You have got to be kidding.
1:02:37
I'm sure this is one of the ones in his fossil proof revolution
1:02:41
and you're missing such a major point.
1:02:43
I don't know if I can help if you can't get this, but no
1:02:46
fossil, no fossils count as evidence for evolution in a
1:02:53
court of law. They would laugh at you because
1:02:55
you bring some bones in and say, your honor, this is the ancestor
1:02:58
of Wales. Well, first place.
1:03:02
There's not enough to tell what it is, secondly.
1:03:05
You don't know that that is the ancestor of anybody.
1:03:09
You don't know that that animal had any kids that lived.
1:03:12
It is absolutely impossible to use any fossils at all as
1:03:17
evidence for evolution and anybody that's telling you
1:03:20
fossils are evidence for evolution.
1:03:22
You talk about voodoo science. That is it, folks.
1:03:24
OK, we know these bones produce something other than their kind.
1:03:27
Even though no animal today can do this, these bones were able
1:03:30
to do it. That's absolute voodoo science.
1:03:33
That's a good word. If I've got to use that one from
1:03:35
now on, I appreciate that. OK.
1:03:37
And if we could rewind the tape, we would hear you said many
1:03:40
times. Well, probably it happened.
1:03:43
We're here. So that proves we're here.
1:03:46
So that proves evolution. Man, you talk about voodoo
1:03:51
science and absolute insanity and logic.
1:03:54
We're here. I agree.
1:03:56
That doesn't have. That doesn't offer any support
1:03:58
for the evolution theory. Yes, I agree we're here.
1:04:02
I happen to like being here. OK, so and then you said
1:04:05
something I think the average audience may miss if you're not
1:04:07
careful here, he said. Well, it's so complicated.
1:04:13
And the implication that I get because I get this all the time,
1:04:15
I've had done many debates, universities and I don't, I've
1:04:18
never had a class in debate. I don't understand how the rules
1:04:21
are and I don't know all about all this time keeping stuff.
1:04:22
All I know is I think the evidence is, is overwhelmingly
1:04:26
obvious. There must have been a designer,
1:04:28
OK? And I'm here to defend the
1:04:30
biblical view of creation as the only logical scientific choice.
1:04:34
And I'm here to tell people I resent everybody's tax dollars
1:04:36
going to pay for this voodoo science of evolution to be
1:04:38
taught in this university and other universities around the
1:04:40
world. Beer is often sold at football
1:04:42
games, but beer has absolutely nothing to do with football, OK?
1:04:46
Beer does not become athletic by association.
1:04:49
And just because evolution is mixed into a science book, that
1:04:51
does not make evolution part of science.
1:04:54
It's just mixed in the book. And I'm sorry about that.
1:04:56
OK, I'm trying to fix it, but he said it's so complicated we
1:04:58
don't want to confuse, confuse the people of something to that
1:05:02
effect. I don't remember the exact quote
1:05:03
here. To me what what that's trying to
1:05:05
imply is they're smart, you're too dumb to understand, and
1:05:09
anybody that doesn't believe in evolution is simply dumb.
1:05:11
And if you if you just would study this for 100 hours like I
1:05:13
have, then you'd believe like I do.
1:05:15
And since you don't believe like I do, you haven't studied enough
1:05:19
and you're dumb. That's the implication I'm
1:05:23
getting. Is anybody else getting that
1:05:24
from this tonight? OK, now we do exist.
1:05:28
We are here. I agree.
1:05:30
And that is your evidence for evolution.
1:05:32
You got to be kidding. All of the evidence of evolution
1:05:34
from Wales first place. No fossils count.
1:05:37
None. Think about it.
1:05:38
No fossils can possibly count for evidence.
1:05:41
And the fossils they find are little fragments here and there,
1:05:43
and they are putting their imagination and interpretation
1:05:45
on those fossils. Look, when you find a bunch of
1:05:48
There is no such thing as a fossil record.
1:05:51
How they teach that blows my mind.
1:05:52
They say well in the fossil record.
1:05:53
I said, well, what fossil record?
1:05:55
There is no fossil record. There are a bunch of bones in
1:05:58
the dirt. There's a bunch of bones in the
1:06:02
dirt. I agree.
1:06:02
I happen to have a huge fossil collection myself.
1:06:05
But those bones don't have dates on them.
1:06:07
They don't come with a little tag saying this one evolved into
1:06:09
this one. All you do is put your
1:06:12
preconceived evolutionary imagination idea on top of these
1:06:15
fossils that are found. See, the creationists and the
1:06:17
evolutionists are both looking at the same evidence.
1:06:20
We both see the fossils. I see that as example of death.
1:06:25
They see that as an example of, wow, that's how we got ahead.
1:06:27
All these animals died. Isn't that wonderful?
1:06:30
No. That's proof there was a big
1:06:31
flood because fossils just don't normally form except under
1:06:34
special conditions. And billions and billions of
1:06:35
fossils are found. That's to me.
1:06:37
That's evidence of the Bible. I see it that way.
1:06:38
Thank you. The.
1:06:40
First question will be posed to the evolutionist side.
1:06:45
The question is, is The Big Bang theory a reasonable scientific
1:06:49
theory? Please explain.
1:06:51
You'll have 7 minutes Mr. Hoeven left, 3 minutes to rebuttal, and
1:06:54
then we will go on to completely independent question.
1:06:56
Is The Big Bang theory a reasonable scientific theory?
1:06:59
Please explain. Thank you, Judge.
1:07:01
Is that to us? Sorry for asking them, I'll
1:07:05
answer. It wrong?
1:07:09
Yes I will. I will answer the the issue for
1:07:12
the team. Yes, the The Big Bang theory is
1:07:17
viable, but it's one of two theories about the existence of
1:07:20
the of the universe, one of which was a constant energy
1:07:26
universe. That said, that basically simply
1:07:29
exists and energy is somehow generated with within itself
1:07:33
inside. There is no scientific evidence
1:07:38
to show that that particular theory of the universe has ever
1:07:44
been proven or or shown any evidence to to show The Big Bang
1:07:49
theory does have a sea. A piece of evidence that Wilson
1:07:55
and Conzio from Bell Labs got a Nobel Prize for discovering the
1:08:04
fact that there was elect radiation throughout the entire
1:08:08
universe is in all particular directions believed to be the
1:08:13
the remnants of the explosion of the energy in the birth of the
1:08:17
universe and their antennas would basically they could point
1:08:21
no matter how they pointed the antennas in any any direction.
1:08:25
They discovered that the intensity of radiation in that
1:08:29
particular direction was the same which was was essentially
1:08:35
proof, a proof of the of a piece of data that showed that there
1:08:39
may have been something that that made the The Big Bang
1:08:44
theory. So that we we we have that the
1:08:48
scientific evidence right now is that The Big Bang theory is the
1:08:55
best knowledge that we have. It is believed there are some
1:09:01
very strange things about it. It starts essentially with There
1:09:07
was a void. Now the void is it wasn't a hole
1:09:13
or a box with nothing in it. It basically didn't even have
1:09:17
space. It was nothing.
1:09:19
And somehow a black hole the size of an atom became unstable
1:09:27
and exploded and it filled essentially into an area of an
1:09:34
atom 10 to the six more mass and we currently have in the
1:09:39
existing universe. I find having something that
1:09:44
packed together and how close we are here.
1:09:49
And if we believe in the conservation of mass principles
1:09:52
and things of this nature, all things have to be conserved.
1:09:58
And the conserved the the conservation has to exist either
1:10:02
in the beginning, in the middle, and at the end.
1:10:07
And as such we are here and know today the information and the
1:10:12
knowledge had to have existed at the at the beginning of the
1:10:16
creation of the universe. Now you can, you can, you can
1:10:21
place anything that you wish. About how this happened or who
1:10:25
happened or how it happened or where it come from.
1:10:28
I don't know how a God could come outside of our universe.
1:10:32
Because there's nothing outside of our universe.
1:10:34
It's a void, there's nothing. You can't go outside of our
1:10:36
universe. But we we do know that the the
1:10:46
10 to the billion years ago that that that from the the beginning
1:10:50
of 10 billion years ago we have the universe essentially to its
1:10:55
time to date. The cooling of energy in the
1:10:59
formation of stars in the formation of materials and
1:11:04
eventually forming planets. And six 4 to 6 billion years ago
1:11:09
we had a crust around this particular planet and eventually
1:11:13
some some chemicals got together and and we had life and and the
1:11:20
rest is here and we're here and I can I I I believe that and I
1:11:26
believe that it's so and all of the all of the absolute details
1:11:34
and there are many many details are are probably less important
1:11:40
to me than the fact that it did begin and it does exist and that
1:11:45
we're here today. I'm not I'm not fighting about
1:11:48
with religion. I I'm a Christian.
1:11:52
I have no, I have no conflict with with Christian beliefs, my
1:11:56
Christian beliefs and and with the scientific methods that I
1:12:01
also believe in as well. So you know, I don't see
1:12:04
anything that's contradictory to this.
1:12:09
Luther, you're more am I on OK, you're more of an expert at this
1:12:14
than I am. So I was just going to ask you
1:12:17
to elaborate a little bit of the possibility of getting some
1:12:21
corroborative evidence. Of something like The Big Bang
1:12:25
through the view of the Hubble back into time.
1:12:29
Is that something that might provide collaborative?
1:12:34
Evidence for them yes. The the the scientific record is
1:12:40
is is accumulating substantially about our our measurements and
1:12:46
and essentially what is going on in the universe and essentially
1:12:51
what what we know about the mechanism of this.
1:12:56
We're dealing with astronomical sizes and huge and huge and huge
1:13:01
places and if it started with a little place the size of an atom
1:13:09
we do know that it is done. I can tell you one thing that we
1:13:13
can all say that is true. Time has always gone forward,
1:13:19
and time goes forward with entropy into diversity, and
1:13:24
diversity generates through time.
1:13:28
It creates everything that's possible.
1:13:32
And what we have today possible is what we have and what we are
1:13:36
observing. Doctor Hoeven, you will now have
1:13:48
3 minutes to rebuttal that statement and then I will ask
1:13:52
you a completely independent question.
1:13:54
Thank you. OK, humanist regard the universe
1:13:58
as self existing and not created.
1:14:00
Based on The Big Bang theory Textbooks say 18 or 20 billion
1:14:03
years ago there was a all the matter in the universe which
1:14:06
would be a lot of stuff. And by the way, the word
1:14:07
universe means a single spoken sentence.
1:14:10
Universe single spoken sentence, God said.
1:14:14
When he said there nothing can exist outside the universe.
1:14:16
This is about like 2 computers talking to each other.
1:14:18
Does man exist? Nothing exists outside the
1:14:20
computer. Where it?
1:14:23
Duh, OK. All the matter in the universe
1:14:26
was in concentrated in one very dense, very hot region that may
1:14:29
have been much smaller than a period on this page.
1:14:31
I think that's what we just heard a moment ago.
1:14:33
OK, this textbook says after many billions of years, all the
1:14:37
matter and energy will once again be packed into a small
1:14:39
area. This area will be no larger than
1:14:41
the period at the end of this sentence.
1:14:43
Then another Big Bang will occur.
1:14:44
It happens every 80 to 100 billion years.
1:14:46
Save the planet. We're going to get squished,
1:14:48
folks. OK, this guy said nothing really
1:14:51
means nothing. That's that's brilliant, OK?
1:14:55
Not only matter and energy would disappear, but also space and
1:14:58
time. However, physicists theorize
1:15:00
that from the state of nothingness, the universe began
1:15:03
in a gigantic explosion. I believe that's what I just
1:15:05
heard in the last few minutes. OK.
1:15:07
This whole Big Bang idea started with a guy named George or
1:15:09
Isaac, I mean Edward George Latimer, who said the thing that
1:15:12
exploded was a few light years in diameter.
1:15:15
Well, at the least that's about 12 trillion miles.
1:15:17
OK, then by 1965, they said, well, it was only 275,000,000
1:15:21
miles. 1972, I think it was Scientific American said no, the
1:15:24
thing that exploded, The Big Bang came from something only 71
1:15:27
million miles in diameter. Later they said, Oh no, it's
1:15:30
only 54,000 miles. 1983 they said the thing that exploded was
1:15:34
a trillionth, the diameter of a proton.
1:15:37
Now that's tiny. OK?
1:15:38
And now they're saying nothing exploded.
1:15:40
Here's Discover magazine. Two years ago, where did
1:15:42
everything come from? The universe burst into
1:15:45
something from absolutely nothing.
1:15:46
Zero. Nada.
1:15:48
As it got bigger, it became filled with even more stuff that
1:15:50
came from absolutely nowhere. How is that possible?
1:15:52
Ask Alan Guth. His theory will explain
1:15:54
everything. Well, what does Alan Guth say in
1:15:56
Scientific American? Alan Guth says the observable
1:15:59
universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region.
1:16:01
That's a dot. He said it's then tempting to go
1:16:04
one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved
1:16:06
from literally nothing. Folks, why would a sentence like
1:16:09
this be found in Scientific American?
1:16:12
There's nothing scientific about that.
1:16:13
Stated exhibits incredible faith.
1:16:16
But the textbooks teach this. This dot was spinning.
1:16:19
It's spun faster and faster. Finally it exploded.
1:16:21
The Big Bang. There are so many problems with
1:16:23
The Big Bang. Simple physical science
1:16:25
problems. What exploded?
1:16:27
Where did the matter come from? Where did the energy come from?
1:16:29
Where did the organization come from?
1:16:31
Where did the information come from?
1:16:34
The story he gave was so good, I got to replay the tape and hear
1:16:36
this. You know, 4.6 billion years ago,
1:16:38
the planet developed a rocky crust.
1:16:40
The chemicals got together, you know, blah, blah, blah.
1:16:42
Here we are exactly what I said earlier.
1:16:44
That's what. That's what the theory teaches.
1:16:45
Now, if he wants to believe that, that's fine.
1:16:46
I don't care what you believe, but don't call that science and
1:16:50
don't make me pay to teach that to the rest of these kids in
1:16:52
this university. These kids came here to learn
1:16:53
some science, not a fairy tale like that.
1:16:55
Thank you. Doctor Hoeven, the next question
1:17:03
will be posed to you. You'll have 7 minutes and then
1:17:05
the evolutionists will have 3 minutes.
1:17:08
The questions more of an open end one.
1:17:12
Please prove, disprove or generally talk about carbon
1:17:15
dating and how it relates to evolution.
1:17:24
Get my projector on here. See I have about. 7000 slides in
1:17:29
PowerPoint So it helps if you ask the questions in the same
1:17:32
order that I have the answers. Carbon dating.
1:17:37
OK, Carbon dating. Actually, fossils are dated by
1:17:41
their position in the geologic column.
1:17:43
They are not dated by carbon dating or potassium argon,
1:17:45
rubidium, strontium, lead two O 8, Lead two O 6.
1:17:47
None of those matter. A fossil is dated by the
1:17:49
position in the geologic column. They're called index fossils.
1:17:52
This guy admits it. Radiometric dating would not
1:17:54
have been feasible if the geologic column had not been
1:17:56
erected first. The geologic column was invented
1:17:58
in 1918 thirties that was taught for 120 years and became
1:18:02
accepted as science. And the geologic column doesn't
1:18:04
exist any place on the planet. OK, there is no geologic column.
1:18:07
There are layers of rocks and they're assuming that it's
1:18:10
different ages. That's the problem right there.
1:18:13
This guy says fossils have been and still are the best and most
1:18:16
accurate method of updating and correlating the rocks in which
1:18:18
they occur. We go through all kinds of
1:18:20
examples on this, but on video 7 Pierce atmosphere is about 100
1:18:23
miles thick. It is mostly nitrogen 78
1:18:26
percent, 21% oxygen, little bit of CO2 for plants to breathe and
1:18:29
very little radioactive carbon 14.0000765% This radioactive
1:18:35
carbon 14 mixes with oxygen and it becomes carbon dioxide.
1:18:39
Most of it does and the plants are breathing carbon dioxide.
1:18:42
Now carbon 14 is formed when radiation strikes the
1:18:45
atmosphere. The nitrogen which is the
1:18:47
majority of gas are up up there and here nitrogen.
1:18:51
It gets bombarded by cosmic rays and it bombards the upper
1:18:54
atmosphere producing fast moving neutrinos.
1:18:56
These neutrinos collide with atmospheric nitrogen, producing
1:18:59
carbon 14. That's how it's made.
1:19:01
If you look at a periodic table, carbon and nitrogen are right
1:19:04
next to each other. Nitrogen is normally an atomic
1:19:06
weight of 14 and carbon is an atomic weight of 12.
1:19:09
But if the nitrogen gets blasted with these neutrinos, it turns
1:19:12
into carbon 14, which is a rare, very rare and radioactive
1:19:17
element. It is radioactive just like
1:19:19
uranium or any other radioactive element and you can hear it as
1:19:22
it decays or breaks apart and throws off all the little
1:19:24
particles into the into space around it.
1:19:25
Now carbon 14 is being produced by the sun or by the neutrinos
1:19:29
by the high speed radiation. Long doesn't matter, it breaks
1:19:32
back down to nitrogen. About half of it breaks down
1:19:34
every 57130 years. OK this is the estimated to be
1:19:37
the half life. Obviously nobody watched it for
1:19:39
5700 years, but during photosynthesis plants are
1:19:42
breathing in CO2. And so the animals eat the
1:19:46
plants and make it part of their body.
1:19:47
So you and I probably have carbon 14 in US because at some
1:19:50
time in your life, you have either eaten plants or you've
1:19:52
eaten animals that have eaten plants.
1:19:55
That's about all there is. OK.
1:19:56
So these plants are absorbing things out of the atmosphere.
1:19:59
They're absorbing the carbon 14. It becomes part of their tissue.
1:20:03
It is assumed the ratio of C-14 to normal C-12 in the atmosphere
1:20:07
would be the same ratio found in living plants and animals.
1:20:10
If the atmosphere is .0000765%, it is assumed plants and animals
1:20:14
have the same percentage. That has never been
1:20:16
demonstrated, but as a as a reasonable assumption.
1:20:18
OK, when the planter animal dies, it stops taking in new
1:20:21
C-14. So in theory you can tell how
1:20:23
long it's been dead by measuring how much C-14 is left.
1:20:26
This entire process was invented by Willard Libby, Nobel Prize
1:20:29
winner for inventing carbon dating, University of Chicago in
1:20:33
1947 to 53. He worked on this.
1:20:35
Moved to Stanford University, Carbon 14.
1:20:38
It continues to decay after the animal dies.
1:20:41
If half of it's gone, you would assume it's been dead 5700
1:20:44
years. It can't get anymore, obviously,
1:20:46
so it's going to go out of balance.
1:20:47
Carbon dating is actually a comparison of the carbon 14 in
1:20:50
the object with the carbon 14 in the atmosphere.
1:20:53
It's a ratio, OK. If it's .000765, it is still
1:20:57
alive. If it's only 00003825, it's 5700
1:21:01
years old, etcetera, etcetera. The less it has, the older it
1:21:05
is. This is how the theory works.
1:21:06
It goes from 1/2 to 1/4 to an eighth to a 16th to not much.
1:21:10
OK, they compare the amount of C-14 in the object being dated
1:21:13
with the amount in the atmosphere to estimate how long
1:21:16
it's been dead. If only half of it has been.
1:21:19
If it's only got half as much, it's assumed it died 57130 years
1:21:22
ago. Sounds good, but there are some
1:21:23
assumptions that mess up everything.
1:21:25
If I told you to fill a barrel with water, but there were holes
1:21:28
in the barrel, as you're putting water in, it's leaking out.
1:21:32
It's kind of like a check checkbook, you know, You keep
1:21:33
putting the money in, it keeps leaking out in different places,
1:21:35
but at some point you're going to reach a stage called
1:21:38
equilibrium. You'll never feel the barrel
1:21:40
past that point unless you speed up the intake or cut down the
1:21:42
outgo. The Earth's atmosphere is going
1:21:45
to have the same problem. If you took a brand new planet,
1:21:47
Earth created it poof and stuck it out, going around the sun
1:21:50
93,000,000 miles away, it would start developing C14 from
1:21:54
radiation and start losing it to decay.
1:21:56
So the question is, they they wandered this back in 1950.
1:21:59
How long would it take Earth's atmosphere to reach equilibrium?
1:22:03
The consensus was it would probably take about 30,000 years
1:22:06
for the Earth to reach equilibrium.
1:22:08
And then Willard, Libby and the boys at University of Chicago
1:22:10
made a tragic mistake. They made two fundamentally
1:22:13
fatally flawed assumptions. They said, well, we know the
1:22:16
Earth is millions of years old. Mistake #1, so we can ignore the
1:22:20
equilibrium problem. They ignored it.
1:22:24
The problem is radiocarbon is still forming 28 to 37% faster
1:22:27
than it's decaying with carbon 14 is proof the Earth is less
1:22:30
than 30,000 years old, or else it would all be stabilized by
1:22:33
now. It would be stable in the
1:22:35
atmosphere and it's not OK. We could talk all day about
1:22:38
that. But basically, if an animal is
1:22:39
still alive, it should give you about 16 clicks on your Geiger
1:22:42
counter. If it's only giving you 8,
1:22:43
you're going to say it's 5700 years old.
1:22:45
If it's only giving you four, it's 11,000 years old.
1:22:47
Etcetera, etcetera. This is how carbon dating is
1:22:49
done. I won't have time to cover all
1:22:51
of the evidences I have. I'm going to just give you a few
1:22:53
examples of how it simply doesn't work, because one good
1:22:57
experiment is worth a pound of theory any day.
1:23:00
Back in 1949 when they developed it, the lower leg of a mammoth
1:23:03
dated 15,000 years old, but the skin dated 21,000 years old.
1:23:06
Same animal. It's not working in. 19491963
1:23:10
Living mollusk shells dated 2300 years old.
1:23:13
It's still not working, folks. 1970 at the Proceedings of the
1:23:17
12th Nobel Sympro Symposium, they said if a carbon date
1:23:20
supports our theories, we put it in the main text.
1:23:22
If it is not entirely contradict them, we put it in a footnote.
1:23:24
If it's completely out of date, we just drop it.
1:23:28
Freshly killed seal carbon dated 1300 years old.
1:23:31
One part of a mammoth is 40,000 years old, another part is
1:23:33
26,000 from the same animal. Now we can talk all day about
1:23:37
carbon dating, but here's living snails, carbon dated 27,000
1:23:40
years old. 1984 Science Magazine.
1:23:44
I don't have time to cover them all, but watch my video #7,
1:23:46
which is why it's out there. 1992 2 Colorado Creek mammoths
1:23:50
in Alaska found side by side one day to 22,000 years old.
1:23:53
The other one was 16,000 years old.
1:23:54
They're side by side 1996 at Berkeley University.
1:23:58
They used the most advanced dating techniques they have.
1:24:00
They discovered these things that they thought were quarter
1:24:03
million years old. Actually were 53,000 to 27,000.
1:24:07
Well, I'd like to point out, your honor, that is still a 96%
1:24:11
error. If you think carbon dating
1:24:13
proves the age of anything, you need your head examined.
1:24:16
Thank you. I'd like a show of hands of how
1:24:25
many understood that. I guess we aren't the only liars
1:24:33
here I I have a pamphlet here written by the.
1:24:46
The Institute for Creation Research on Radioactive
1:24:49
Isotopes. I'm quoting a sentence of the
1:24:53
conclusion they're they're doing investigation on radioactive
1:24:57
isotopes. The thing is called rape, and it
1:25:02
says we would appreciate your involvement in this effort.
1:25:05
The most important contribution you can make is through prayer.
1:25:09
We recognize this is a monumental task, and we need you
1:25:12
to pray that we have wisdom as we work.
1:25:16
Science would never pray for success.
1:25:20
I wanted to find out why the evolutionists and the
1:25:22
creationists disagreed on this carbon dating thing so much.
1:25:25
So I went to one of the most famous creationists that I know.
1:25:30
Henry Morris is the past president of the Institution
1:25:33
Creation Research in his pamphlet The Creation Institute,
1:25:39
Creation Research Society in March 1982.
1:25:44
On page 226 he explains why only got carbon dating.
1:25:50
That shows a short time is effective.
1:25:52
I quote when God squeezed energy into atoms, he squeezed and held
1:25:57
the atom so tightly that there was no unstable elements and
1:26:02
therefore no radioactivity. At the fall of Adam and Eve, he
1:26:07
relaxed his grip slightly, which affected every atom.
1:26:11
It allowed some to become unstable.
1:26:14
That is radioactive. It's all because of Adam and
1:26:19
Eve's sin that we have unstable radioactivity.
1:26:23
Isn't that right? Want to add anything to this?
1:26:29
We don't need that any more time we're done.
1:26:32
OK. Let me go ahead and pose the
1:26:34
next question to you. I'd like to give you guys an
1:26:36
opening and one too for fairness sake.
1:26:39
Let me just read the question to you verbatim and then please
1:26:43
talk on this topic. Question says in evolution there
1:26:47
appears to be no real purpose to life.
1:26:49
What hope do you have to offer me to even bother to continue to
1:26:52
live? So I guess you know what?
1:26:58
How do you? Say, for the sake of open
1:27:01
endedness, please. I guess we're talking about
1:27:03
morality, purpose. Anything along those lines?
1:27:07
Well, let me let me let me point point out one thing that this
1:27:10
is, you know, sort of confusing terms.
1:27:15
There may not be a purpose ostensibly defined for the
1:27:20
universe as a whole or for a society as a whole, even, but
1:27:24
that doesn't mean that an individual could not set up a
1:27:26
purpose for him or herself. I I'm going to live first.
1:27:32
Then I decide what's worthwhile. For me to strive for in my life,
1:27:37
if I simply subject myself to the mass and say because they
1:27:40
don't have a purpose, I'm going to kill myself, There's
1:27:43
something demented. I think I need counseling at
1:27:45
that point for all practical purposes here.
1:27:48
So here again, I think. I think a purpose is something
1:27:52
that we create individually for ourselves.
1:27:55
It's not something that we deduce from the nature of the
1:28:00
universe in any way. I'm sure that everyone here has
1:28:03
some kind of a purpose in their existence defined by themselves
1:28:10
to find where they're going to go.
1:28:11
So that that would be my take on that.
1:28:13
And did you want to? Sure, look at DNA changes.
1:28:25
And it changes so that animals and plants survive.
1:28:28
If the DNA changes in a brain of an animal to make that animals
1:28:33
breed successfully by taking care of its young, taking care
1:28:37
of its brothers and sisters, and taking care of its family, that
1:28:40
animal may survive. If, on the other hand, the DNA
1:28:44
goes in a different direction, then the animal learns to swim
1:28:47
or or fly that can and that animal can survive.
1:28:51
Certain animals have more emotions than others.
1:28:56
We can measure the emotions in dog and if anybody here want a
1:28:59
dog that doesn't have any emotions, you know, my two dogs
1:29:02
have all kinds of emotions. I can tell when they're guilty
1:29:05
and I can tell, you know, when they're happy and I can tell
1:29:08
when they're sad. It's and it's good for them.
1:29:11
They have the DNA in their brains that gave them the
1:29:15
ability to be pack animals and they survived because of it.
1:29:19
Now, some animals like cats, and how many cat owners in there
1:29:23
know that cats aren't pack animals?
1:29:24
They don't care if you're home or not.
1:29:26
You know dog owners know the dogs can't wait for you to get
1:29:29
home. Cats survive because of the way
1:29:32
they evolved. Human beings survived because of
1:29:35
the way we evolved, too. So it's important to us to take
1:29:39
care of our children to. It's important for us to make
1:29:43
sure that our families survive. It's important for us to get mad
1:29:47
once in a while. It's important for us to love
1:29:50
those things, have to be able to come out of us because we've got
1:29:54
the right chemicals in our body to do that.
1:29:56
If we didn't have those chemicals, we couldn't do it.
1:30:00
So it's it's anytime you talk about any kind of emotions,
1:30:04
we've got them, and so do lots of other animals.
1:30:07
If we want to talk, we can even talk about plants.
1:30:10
For heaven's sakes, if insects attack a Maple tree, that Maple
1:30:17
tree gives off a chemical called a pheromone that goes off
1:30:23
through the rest of the forest. And unites with the leaves and
1:30:26
the trees and the rest of the forest, Those trees pick up that
1:30:29
pheromone and then they produce a chemical to withstand the
1:30:33
insect infection. That's important for those trees
1:30:37
to be able to do that. It's important for them to be
1:30:40
able to communicate with each other by using chemicals.
1:30:43
It's important for us to do the same thing.
1:30:45
What we smell on each other is important.
1:30:47
What we see on each other is important.
1:30:50
Those things are controlled by DNA.
1:30:53
Can you? Can you?
1:30:54
Can you teach your child to love?
1:30:57
Can you teach your child to hate?
1:30:59
Sure you can, But you can do it because those chemicals are
1:31:06
there. We are an animal that has the
1:31:09
ability to make our environment part of what So we can survive.
1:31:16
We can control our environment. We can control it because we've
1:31:19
got intelligence. We can control it because we
1:31:21
have emotions. We get those things.
1:31:23
We get the basic cards we play with from DNA.
1:31:28
Some of us get a better deck than the rest.
1:31:31
What are you going to do about that?
1:31:33
And the answer is you can't do anything about it.
1:31:35
You can try to fit into your environment.
1:31:38
You can't make yourself something that you want to be
1:31:42
just by wishing it. You got you were a a sperm and
1:31:47
an egg you know and that sperm and an egg developed from a lot
1:31:51
of cells. Let me I I want to ask you a
1:31:57
question because another question because I hear I hear
1:32:01
this a lot and people are are saying well how do you know
1:32:06
about that evolution You weren't there.
1:32:08
How do you know that those things are really happening?
1:32:10
You weren't there. Well, my question to you is,
1:32:13
were you there when you were conceived?
1:32:15
Do you remember then? Can can you prove that you were
1:32:22
conceived if you weren't there? Well, some of you are saying,
1:32:26
well that's a a a silly question.
1:32:28
Well, of course it's a silly question.
1:32:31
And it's a silly question because we can look back in the
1:32:35
past. We can trace back.
1:32:39
What happens to animals to make them behave a certain way?
1:32:43
We can trace back to certain animals to make them to show
1:32:46
what kind of characteristics they have.
1:32:49
If you were to take a little chunk of skin right there for me
1:32:52
and look at that hair follicle, then you were to take a, a a a
1:32:59
bird and and take his wing and take that little follicle out
1:33:02
right there. That's a a feather follicle.
1:33:05
Of course, if you took it from his leg, it would be a skin a a
1:33:08
a scale follicle. If you took a little chunk from
1:33:11
a fish, you'd get another scale follicle.
1:33:13
So there's scale follicles, bird feather follicles and hair
1:33:17
follicles. When we look at the DNA in those
1:33:20
follicles, they're almost exactly alike.
1:33:24
And then when we look at the DNA that produces the proteins that
1:33:28
makes hair, scales and feathers, it's almost exactly like we can
1:33:34
show relationships. That's important.
1:33:38
Evolution wouldn't mean anything if we couldn't show
1:33:40
relationships. If if we found that a a dog was
1:33:44
more genetically related to a frog than it is to a cat, we'd
1:33:49
know something's wrong. But we never find that.
1:33:52
We know we've got so much information genetically that
1:33:56
we'll probably we may never figure it all out.
1:33:59
We've spent a lot of time here talking about fossils.
1:34:01
Fossils don't mean anything as far as evolution is concerned.
1:34:05
We don't need them. We got all evidence we need to
1:34:08
prove evolution without fossils. Forget fossils, they just aren't
1:34:11
important. What's important is DNA.
1:34:22
All right, the question was, what's the purpose of life?
1:34:28
OK, Joseph Stalin executed 14,700 Polish officers,
1:34:32
prisoners of war at the Katyn forest.
1:34:35
Why did he do that? How do you execute prisoners of
1:34:38
war? Adolph Hitler executed at least
1:34:40
6,000,000 Jews plus millions of others.
1:34:41
Why would a person kill Jews? Well, Hitler thought they were
1:34:44
an inferior species that hadn't evolved this far.
1:34:46
He was actually trying to speed up the evolution process. 1975
1:34:50
to 79. The Khmer Rouge under the
1:34:52
leadership Paul Pot executed more than 1/3 of their entire
1:34:55
population. Check out the killing fields.
1:34:58
Why did they do that? Why were the Australian
1:35:00
Aborigines treated like they were animals?
1:35:03
Why were Australian Aboriginal skulls dug up out of graves?
1:35:06
Or people were executed and their skulls were boiled down
1:35:09
and their soul to museums in America?
1:35:11
To have displays for evolution? Because they have a bigger jaw
1:35:13
than other humans do? Kip Kinkel said.
1:35:17
If there was a God, he wouldn't let me feel the way I do.
1:35:19
There is no God, only hate, huh? Well, in May 1st May 21st, 1998,
1:35:24
fifteen year old Kip Kinkel, a student at Thurston High School
1:35:27
in Oregon, entered the cafeteria, fired more than 50
1:35:30
rounds from a semi automatic rifle. 26 students were injured,
1:35:33
two were killed. Later the bodies of his parents
1:35:35
were found in his home. He was taken.
1:35:37
He was arrested, taken to a police headquarters where he
1:35:39
attempted to murder a detective. He said if there was a God he
1:35:42
wouldn't let me feel the way I do.
1:35:43
So there's no God, only hate. Why?
1:35:45
Violent crimes increased nearly 1000% since I was a boy and
1:35:48
that's the time evolution became a popular theory in our
1:35:50
textbook. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris
1:35:54
made a video prior to the Columbine shootings.
1:35:56
They're talking about a football player.
1:35:57
They said he doesn't deserve the jaw.
1:35:59
Evolution gave him. Look for his jaw.
1:36:01
It won't be on his body. Klebold's father was a geologist
1:36:04
who believed in evolution. Both Eric and Dial In were
1:36:06
followers of Nazi teachings. The shooting took place on
1:36:08
Hitler's birthday on purpose. It was planned to commemorate
1:36:11
Hitler. Eric's T-shirt said natural
1:36:13
selection. They killed Cassie and Rachel
1:36:16
just because they were Christians.
1:36:17
They killed Isaiah just because he was black.
1:36:20
Hitler hated black people. After all.
1:36:21
They hadn't evolved as far. That was Hitler's thinking.
1:36:24
The clothes may give a clue to the thinking of these teenagers,
1:36:26
said natural selection. Yes.
1:36:29
What about this natural selection?
1:36:32
Well, natural selection selects, it doesn't create a thing.
1:36:36
It's selects. It's all it can do.
1:36:37
It's not, it's not a creation process.
1:36:38
We go into that some other time. So my answer to the question is,
1:36:41
is there a purpose to life? Absolutely.
1:36:43
There certainly is. God created this universe with a
1:36:46
plan. He created man with a purpose.
1:36:50
Now I have found in my doing speaking on this topic about 800
1:36:53
* a year all over the world and 15 years worth.
1:36:55
Now the reason people accept the evolution theory is not because
1:36:59
they have a scientific reason. I asked a kid two weeks ago, I
1:37:02
was debating 2 professors or I forget where I was.
1:37:05
I didn't matter. 3 weeks ago one kid came afterwards and said
1:37:07
evolution is a fact. I said well stand quote on calm
1:37:09
down. Let me ask you a question.
1:37:10
If evolution, if if creation was true, if the creation story is
1:37:13
true, would that affect your lifestyle any if there was a
1:37:17
creator? That said, thou shalt not commit
1:37:18
adultery, don't know pornography, no lying, no
1:37:20
cheating, no stealing, would that affect your lifestyle any?
1:37:23
He said. You're trying to embarrass me,
1:37:24
aren't you? I said I don't even know who you
1:37:26
are. I'm just asking you a question.
1:37:27
The reason people accept evolution is because of their
1:37:29
sin, not their science. Doctor Hoeven, this question is
1:37:40
going to you first. You've mentioned the second law
1:37:44
of thermodynamics to. Prove that God must have
1:37:47
provided the initial energy or the initial something in the
1:37:50
universe. Have you considered that some of
1:37:53
the laws of nature only work in certain situations?
1:37:55
For example, Newtonian physics breaks down towards the speed of
1:37:58
light. So does it the second law of
1:38:01
thermodynamics really prove that God created the universe?
1:38:07
There are several ways to define the second law of
1:38:09
thermodynamics. There's all kinds of.
1:38:12
Let me try to get well, it'll take me a minute.
1:38:14
But basically it all they all boil down to the same thing.
1:38:17
Matter. Everything tends toward
1:38:19
disorder. OK, things don't order.
1:38:21
That doesn't prove God created the universe and it certainly
1:38:23
doesn't prove the biblical view. OK, and it doesn't prove
1:38:26
everybody ought to become an independent temperamental,
1:38:28
fundamental right wing radical chicken eating Baptist like me.
1:38:30
However, if you keep studying, you will get there.
1:38:33
OK. I think the second law of
1:38:35
thermodynamics demonstrates there must have been a
1:38:37
beginning. Since everything is winding
1:38:40
down, everything is falling apart.
1:38:43
There had to be a beginning. There had to be something that
1:38:47
wounded up. So yes, I think the second law
1:38:49
of thermodynamics is proof positive that there was a
1:38:51
beginning. Even the evolutionists will
1:38:53
admit that, Oh yeah, 20 billion years ago, what was before that?
1:38:58
Was there any time or space before there was matter?
1:39:02
And where did this matter come from?
1:39:03
They have a totally illogical theory, yes.
1:39:06
I think that it's logical to say in the beginning God instead of
1:39:09
in the beginning you know nothing, or in the beginning
1:39:11
dirt or in the beginning matter, you know, they worship matter
1:39:14
like the Christian worships God. There's no difference.
1:39:17
They're both religious. I think ours is more logical and
1:39:19
scientifically defensible, but they're both ultimately in the
1:39:22
in the final analysis or simply religious theories.
1:39:25
So the second law of thermodynamics, which is as far
1:39:28
as anybody knows, universally believe as far as Newton's law
1:39:31
is breaking down at as you approach the speed of light.
1:39:33
There's a lot of theories about that.
1:39:34
There's also theories article in Discover magazine last year,
1:39:38
April of 2003 that says Einstein was simply wrong.
1:39:41
Folks, OK, there's a large article in there, the speed of
1:39:44
light is not a constant. So I don't think it's correct to
1:39:47
say that we know for sure that these laws breakdown as we
1:39:50
approach the speed of light. It may be true, I don't know.
1:39:52
I don't think anybody knows. Would be my point.
1:39:54
I cover quite a bit about the speed of light and evidences of
1:39:56
it in the last 10 years. Proofs, actually, scientific
1:40:00
experiments that say the speed of light is not a constant.
1:40:03
I'll get you some of those here if I can get.
1:40:06
Oh no, sorry about that. See, I told you about asking the
1:40:09
questions in the right order. Didn't I remember to be a lot
1:40:12
faster? The second law of thermodynamics
1:40:15
says everything's falling apart. There's lots of stars out there.
1:40:18
I mean like billions and billions of stars.
1:40:20
We don't have a clue how any one of them could form by chance.
1:40:23
And yet, obviously, they're here.
1:40:25
So the second law of thermodynamics, the Christian
1:40:27
would predict that God created a universe and we'll see things
1:40:31
falling apart. The universe is is winding down.
1:40:34
OK, it's not getting better and stars are blowing up.
1:40:37
It's called a Nova or a supernova if it's a big one.
1:40:39
So yeah, we're losing things and eventually the universe will
1:40:41
experience what's called a heat death.
1:40:43
Everything will be uniformly cold.
1:40:45
And right now they look out in space and see this three degree
1:40:48
Kelvin. You know, -270 centigrade or
1:40:51
-450, 2.7, whatever it is Fahrenheit, you know, it's a
1:40:55
universal temperature out there. Seems to be the same everywhere.
1:40:57
And it seems to be this background noise, this
1:40:59
radiation. OK, that appears to be true.
1:41:02
What does it prove? Oh, that proves The Big Bang.
1:41:04
Oh, it doesn't prove The Big Bang.
1:41:05
Not that it doesn't prove The Big Bang at all.
1:41:07
Nobody's for sure. What's causing that?
1:41:08
We are seeing stars appear to be drifting away, like the red
1:41:11
shift. OK, there's not much question.
1:41:13
There's a red shift. The assumption is that maybe
1:41:15
it's caused by the Doppler effect, but actually nobody
1:41:17
knows what's causing the red shift.
1:41:19
Even if it's true that it is stars drifting away or moving
1:41:23
away, that would still beg the question of where did the energy
1:41:25
come from to propel this thing. Where did the star itself come
1:41:28
from? And I don't think we can prove
1:41:30
positively that the the redshift is proof of either great
1:41:32
distances or that the universe is that stars are moving away.
1:41:35
They give the same thing with parallel motion or perpendicular
1:41:37
motion to your line of sight. This guy said there was an early
1:41:40
sign that redshifts indicate distance of galaxies for
1:41:43
quasars. However, the diagram shows a
1:41:44
wide scatter and apparent brightness at every redshift.
1:41:48
In fact, there is little correlation of brightness to
1:41:50
redshift at all. Either quasars come in an
1:41:52
extremely wide range of intrinsic luminosities, as most
1:41:55
people believe, or their redshifts do not indicate
1:41:57
distance. Sky and Telescope Magazine 10
1:41:59
years ago. Thus, for us, the only
1:42:02
conclusion can be that can be drawn is at least some quasars
1:42:04
are relatively nearby and a large fraction of their redshift
1:42:07
is due to something other than expansion of the universe.
1:42:11
Some people think redshift is for the Doppler effect from
1:42:13
stars leaving. Maybe so.
1:42:14
If it is, that's still an example of the Second law.
1:42:17
We see things get old, they die, they fall apart.
1:42:19
And if their if their philosophy of life is you're only here to
1:42:22
pass on your genes, that's the only reason you exist.
1:42:25
Eat, drink and be merry. Tomorrow we die.
1:42:27
That's a pretty pessimistic world view.
1:42:29
I think there's a much better view than that.
1:42:32
You were created in God's image with a purpose.
1:42:35
It's true. Everything's falling apart.
1:42:36
The heavens wax old. I I'm getting old.
1:42:38
Everything's falling apart. My car is falling apart.
1:42:40
Everything falls apart. How did it get wound up?
1:42:44
Where did the initial organization, energy and
1:42:47
intelligence come from? Information is consistently
1:42:50
being lost. Every time your DNA replicates a
1:42:53
little, pieces break off and you know it's like split ends on a
1:42:55
hair and you eventually you can only replicate it so many times
1:42:58
and it it quits replicating and you die.
1:43:01
You know that if we are a copy off of a copy off of a copy off
1:43:04
of a copy off of a copy off of a copy off of a copy off of a copy
1:43:08
of Adam, it's amazing. We can even stand here and talk
1:43:11
about it, OK? The information must have been
1:43:14
incredible in the original because it's been degrading ever
1:43:17
since. That's the second law of
1:43:19
thermodynamics. Everything is degrading.
1:43:21
This building is degrading. If you don't have people
1:43:24
constantly maintain this building, it will fall apart.
1:43:27
The entire highway system in America will fall completely
1:43:30
apart if we don't keep maintaining it.
1:43:32
Every building on this planet will fall down into a pile of
1:43:35
rubble if somebody doesn't keep fixing it.
1:43:37
And even then, if they try desperately to keep fixing it,
1:43:39
at some point it's still going to fall down.
1:43:42
It's inevitable. That's the second law.
1:43:44
So if you think that evolution can overcome that second law, I
1:43:47
would like to understand how. OK, the second law tells us
1:43:50
everything's falling apart. Therefore, obviously there must
1:43:52
have been a beginning. I can answer that in 10 words.
1:43:55
In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
1:43:58
That's logical answer for me. You can have the rest of my
1:44:00
time. All right.
1:44:05
Are we supposed to resolve? This can we do?
1:44:08
That I'll try. That's a mouthful to say the the
1:44:19
least. First of all, the the laws of
1:44:21
thermodynamics are commonly called the laws of
1:44:25
thermodynamics. People like to talk about the
1:44:28
second law. Albert Einstein has said that
1:44:30
the laws of thermodynamics are the only laws that will stand
1:44:36
and never be overthrown forever. Stephen Hawking, a person who is
1:44:45
believed to be one of the brightest men on the planet, has
1:44:51
used the second law of thermodynamics to show the
1:44:55
mechanism by which black holes have have worked.
1:44:59
Which, you know, I think that's that's rather amazing.
1:45:05
The opponent is saying truly diversity is a measure of the
1:45:11
second law of thermodynamics. But I let's don't bad mouth it
1:45:16
too muchly because as the universe as it exists as we know
1:45:22
it, it's the only one that can exist for us to exist to follow
1:45:29
these particular principles. So therefore.
1:45:32
You know I'm I'm very reluctant to say this is something that we
1:45:34
want to have to to ask God to overthrow that it seems to be
1:45:40
the very maybe the the very thing that will make it possible
1:45:45
for things to exist. Energy and how it got together,
1:45:50
I don't know. But the fact that it is in a
1:45:55
concentrated form. They can go to a less deformed,
1:45:59
kind of less concentrated form, and we can utilize when things
1:46:06
go from hot places to cold places.
1:46:08
And we did that when he drove our automobiles here today.
1:46:12
You did this. You're driving around with an
1:46:14
automobile that's 8000°F inside of that engine with a burning of
1:46:20
gasoline. But you know, you don't have to
1:46:22
have that inside of the car. Of course you're you're
1:46:25
surrounded by the 40° or 50° temperatures that you're driving
1:46:29
through the through the through the atmosphere.
1:46:36
The the laws of thermodynamics are much misunderstood.
1:46:42
I can look out across the the class or the students here and
1:46:49
many of them are my my students. And I can probably, I can
1:46:53
probably confess to the confusion that exists in
1:46:57
thermodynamics. I probably contribute a great
1:47:01
contribution to to adding to that confusion.
1:47:05
But the what we have heard today are and I've got to I like to
1:47:14
use colorful language so I'm very careful and I'm told I
1:47:17
can't do that here. But but I'm going to have to
1:47:20
leave it with this that I I'm certainly glad I don't have to
1:47:23
step in something. Thank you.
1:47:31
This question will be posed to your table.
1:47:35
Evolutionary theory predicts that mankind will continue to
1:47:39
evolve. How long, in your estimation,
1:47:41
will it take for a distinct new species of humans to emerge?
1:47:44
In other words, how long will it take for there to be two or more
1:47:47
incompatible species of humans? And let me add something to
1:47:50
that. Where where do you foresee this
1:47:53
going? The evolution of of humans?
1:47:59
I can tell you one thing. We'll never have a war because
1:48:02
there's been a disagreement on science.
1:48:06
What we will have is people advancing because we've learned
1:48:12
how to live with each other. If we don't do that, we're not
1:48:16
going to advance at all. We have certain things that are
1:48:23
going to take place with every species.
1:48:26
If we go back and look how species have evolved over time,
1:48:31
we can see that almost everything that's ever lived on
1:48:35
this planet is extinct. Evolution is a really
1:48:42
inefficient. Situation.
1:48:44
Well, as a matter of fact, the intelligent designer is about as
1:48:49
inefficient as you can get. Do you know how many kids die
1:48:53
every year because they choke to death?
1:48:56
Because our throat and our windpipe are so close together?
1:49:01
I mean, whoever designed that first engineering student could
1:49:05
do better than that. Just think how many people in
1:49:08
this audience probably got all kinds of hang ups.
1:49:11
Because we've got a system that gets rid of our waste material
1:49:13
retinator system that we do. We reproduce with.
1:49:17
I mean, you know, there's all kinds of animals that got better
1:49:20
reproductive systems than that. They don't.
1:49:22
You know that the intelligent designer designed a snail that
1:49:25
has his anus right above his mouth.
1:49:27
Come on, who did that? We can explain those things by
1:49:31
looking at evolution. You can't explain those things
1:49:34
by looking at a designer. The designer did a terrible job
1:49:37
on the eye. People have eye problems because
1:49:40
the. Nerves in the cornea and the
1:49:42
nerves in the retina are in the wrong place.
1:49:46
And it happened that way because that was the only thing
1:49:49
evolution had to work with. There's all kinds of problems
1:49:53
with design in the world. There's all kinds of problems
1:49:55
with with evolution. And what happens is we try to
1:49:59
correct them now. What's going to happen to us in
1:50:01
the future? It'll depend on.
1:50:04
US. I mean, I like the question
1:50:07
because what it involves is ecology involves environment.
1:50:11
It involves saving the planet, involves you know under what it
1:50:15
involves is understanding evolution.
1:50:19
You know one of these textbooks, I think this one.
1:50:24
It says, it says in here, do not worry about the future because
1:50:30
God is going to kill all of us. Soon you know they say almost
1:50:39
word for word. What I said in there is do not
1:50:45
give your life for evolution, because I mean do not give your
1:50:49
life for environment because the environment will be destroyed by
1:50:54
the Lord you know. Well, if you believe that, then
1:50:57
I guess you don't need to worry about the ecology.
1:50:59
I guess you don't need to worry about the environment.
1:51:01
But I don't believe that and I think that we should worry about
1:51:04
the environment. I think we should worry about
1:51:06
the future of our kids. I think we should worry about
1:51:09
what's going on. And I think we should understand
1:51:12
evolution so that we can stay healthy when we're doing it.
1:51:14
We need to understand our immune systems.
1:51:16
We under need to understand that bacteria change in a moment's
1:51:19
notice. We under.
1:51:20
We need to understand that highly formed animals can't
1:51:24
change quickly and we're a highly formed animal.
1:51:27
We we evolve really slowly. Bacteria evolve very rapidly.
1:51:32
Insects can evolve certain things in just a matter of a a
1:51:37
few months. We're we evolve slowly.
1:51:39
We need to understand what's going on with our DNA.
1:51:43
We need to understand what's going on with the DNA of every
1:51:46
plant and animal that lives on this planet.
1:51:49
That's how we survive. And if we don't do that, we may
1:51:53
not survive. It's a, it's a, it's a.
1:51:57
It's it's that simple, actually. We need, we need to use our
1:52:02
brains. We cannot be in the situation
1:52:06
where we say, here's a book that's got all the answers in
1:52:11
it. We don't need to know anything
1:52:12
new. When my father talked to me when
1:52:16
I was a boy and he said when you read a book, be sure to look in
1:52:19
the back of it and see if there's a good bibliography.
1:52:22
If there's not a good bibliography in there, it may
1:52:25
be. That the things in that book
1:52:27
aren't true. And then he handed me a Bible
1:52:31
and I looked for the bibliography and there wasn't
1:52:33
one. That's all I got to say.
1:52:42
Well, I I just kind of wonder whether there's any kind of
1:52:46
reason to assume that evolution would necessarily lead to some
1:52:51
kind of proliferation of one particular species.
1:52:54
That's that's sort of an assumption.
1:52:57
The question that I don't really quite comprehend why it makes
1:53:00
that I think if you look back we know that the we're coming from
1:53:04
proliferation that is I understand that some comments
1:53:08
have been that the Neanderthal does not share our genes that is
1:53:13
that is that are you up on that that that is we had a
1:53:17
proliferated species. Neanderthal was also human
1:53:21
related, and there's every indication that chimpanzees are
1:53:25
of the same branch in some way or other because they have an
1:53:28
intelligence of a 5 year old and are capable of manipulating
1:53:31
language and communicating with us.
1:53:34
So we're sharing this world already with quite a few
1:53:38
different species that are awfully close to us.
1:53:42
Let me also mention the dolphin their stories that go back all
1:53:44
the way to Roman times. Of cooperation, being, being
1:53:47
inhuman and and often so. If we're talking about
1:53:52
intelligent siblings, I suppose on this planet there may be
1:53:59
plenty already. We don't have to wait for that
1:54:01
to develop. Beyond that, I don't know what
1:54:04
the future will bring and I think that is what characterizes
1:54:09
scientific mentality. Is that you are willing to live
1:54:14
with uncertainty yet don't know it all.
1:54:17
That's why you're motivated to learn more.
1:54:21
And I quite agree with that, with all the answers in one
1:54:24
book. That's very authoritarian,
1:54:27
undemocratic kind of thinking. One of the most frequent since
1:54:33
our colleague here mentioned Adolf Hitler, One of the most
1:54:36
frequent words in Adolf Hitler's mound.
1:54:38
My mouth was God and divine Providence.
1:54:43
Therein lies danger. It's an authoritarian kind of
1:54:46
thinking that is not healthy. All right, that's interesting.
1:55:01
I don't want to step in much of that either, myself.
1:55:05
How long will it take for us to evolve into a new species?
1:55:08
I don't. Nothing ever evolves into any
1:55:10
new. Well, I had to use the word
1:55:11
species. So nothing ever evolves into a
1:55:13
new kind. Nobody's ever observed anything
1:55:15
changed to a different kind. Bacteria are still bacteria.
1:55:19
If they become resistant to a drug, it's because they lost the
1:55:22
locking mechanism on the ribosome, so the antibiotic
1:55:25
can't lock on. It's no different than somebody
1:55:27
handcuffing everybody, hauling them off to jail to kill them.
1:55:29
But you don't have any arms, so they can't handcuff you, so you
1:55:32
survive. Wow, Beneficial mutation.
1:55:36
Well, it might be for the moment, but it's not any new
1:55:38
information. Bacteria don't evolve into
1:55:41
something else. They lose information.
1:55:42
They're resistant to a particular drug for a short
1:55:44
time, but then you put them back in the population of regular
1:55:46
bacteria and they're inferior. Nothing.
1:55:49
The bacteria are still bacteria, for heaven's sake.
1:55:51
That's not an example of evolution.
1:55:52
OK? We're going to evolve how to get
1:55:54
along. People choke because of poor
1:55:56
design. How many of you happen to like
1:55:58
the design of your esophagus and your trachea?
1:56:01
I use mine. I've been using it for years.
1:56:04
OK, it works fine. OK?
1:56:06
The the, the the purpose of life is to save the planet and to
1:56:10
understand evolution. Let's get more government
1:56:13
funding so we can teach more of this stuff, so more kids can not
1:56:16
only step in it, but wallow in it.
1:56:17
Here he said the eye is a poor design.
1:56:20
Well, now let's see about that. Charles Darwin said to suppose
1:56:24
that the eye could have been formed by natural selection
1:56:27
seems, I freely confess, absurd. OK, yet he goes on for four
1:56:30
pages after that and tell us how we think it happened.
1:56:33
The retina of your eye is about one square inch.
1:56:35
It has 137 million light sensitive cells wired to the
1:56:38
brain. I've done a huge amount of
1:56:40
electrical wiring in my lifetime.
1:56:41
I cannot imagine hooking up 137,000,000 connections in one
1:56:44
square inch. Heavenly Father did it and it
1:56:47
works pretty good. It worked till a couple years
1:56:48
ago. I had to get these dumb things
1:56:49
OK because that's an example of second law.
1:56:51
Thermodynamics by the way, decay.
1:56:53
Now. I debated an atheist in Buckler,
1:56:56
Ed Buckler, Buckner in New York. He said the eye is poorly
1:56:58
designed. Like I believe I just heard a
1:57:00
few moments ago. It's a poor design, he said.
1:57:03
The retina is in front, The blood vessels are in front of
1:57:05
the retina, so they block part of the light coming in.
1:57:07
He said the octopus has a much better eye because their blood
1:57:10
vessels are behind the retina. That's proof of evolution
1:57:13
because of poor design. I said, Ed, we live in the air,
1:57:18
OK, air is a poor insulator for UV light.
1:57:21
Your body needs the blood vessels in front of the retina
1:57:23
because that's your last defense against UV light.
1:57:26
Octopus live in the water. OK, water blocks UV light.
1:57:32
They don't need their blood vessels in front.
1:57:34
Now if you want to swap eyes with an octopus, you just go
1:57:36
ahead and enjoy yourself, but you're going to be blind in a
1:57:38
few days, OK? Their argument from poor design
1:57:41
is like saying, well, God wouldn't do it this way.
1:57:43
Therefore, it must have evolved. That's a lousy argument for
1:57:46
evolution. That's a proof.
1:57:48
Evidence. That's an evidence to me that we
1:57:50
were originally perfectly designed and we're the whole all
1:57:53
of humanity is just plain falling apart, folks.
1:57:55
And yes, God's going to have to step in here pretty soon, and
1:57:57
we're going to all kill ourselves.
1:57:58
OK. Thank you so much.
1:58:07
Professors Rise, Big Sleeper, and Strayer.
1:58:10
In the entrance of time, seeing that we have left time for a 10
1:58:14
minute closing statement for each side, let's go ahead and
1:58:18
present those now. Would you please go ahead?
1:58:20
Thank you. OK, this is this is my closing
1:58:27
right? Yes.
1:58:29
OK good. Well this is this has been an
1:58:35
interesting discussion that we've we've had I.
1:58:40
I I wonder how we have all changed in our our minds and
1:58:46
thinking and knowledge of what we have talked about.
1:58:52
We've talked about some good information.
1:58:54
I've heard some bad information. I happen to believe in the
1:59:03
scientific method. Without the scientific method,
1:59:08
we have no. Defense of of sinking into
1:59:16
ignorance and despair, and to people who do not understand the
1:59:25
the things that have been accumulated for science.
1:59:29
We we are, we are cursed to do. Ignorance and ignore and and and
1:59:36
and what I would what I will repeat voodoo science that
1:59:41
people will will believe in in in crazy kinds of things and and
1:59:47
we see those kind of things going on in people today.
1:59:57
The one, the one thing that we have is that we have knowledge.
2:00:03
And we have a way of of testing knowledge and putting to the
2:00:09
test of a number of people essentially to evaluate and
2:00:14
agree in what is as correct as we possibly can.
2:00:21
If we have nothing then we we are in despair and and we have
2:00:27
we have nothing that we can possibly survive.
2:00:30
I don't think that is true. I think the scientific method is
2:00:35
is a wonderful thing and I think it, I think we the discussion
2:00:41
we've had today has has proved that that it is correct.
2:00:49
When you die, the world is not going to change.
2:00:57
The world will stop. Because your world is in your
2:01:02
head all along. You have no direct contact with
2:01:08
the world out there. You have no immediate knowledge
2:01:10
of the world. The only knowledge you have is
2:01:12
immediate knowledge through your senses.
2:01:15
For that reason, you work with frameworks trying to understand
2:01:23
theoretical frameworks, trying to understand what's going on
2:01:25
out there. If you're trying to make 10
2:01:28
years predictions about what you think the next event will be,
2:01:33
and if the 10 years prediction doesn't work out that you're
2:01:36
going to overturn the hypothesis to work done, evolution is no
2:01:42
it's a theoretical framework. As long as new information,
2:01:48
we're going to be working with it when we have an overwhelming
2:01:51
evidence that doesn't fit. Then the scientific community
2:01:55
will be just as comfortable overturning that and altering it
2:01:58
to something different. And it's a fairly simple system.
2:02:03
That's why it works. What we've been shown today is
2:02:07
that we should throw that out, replace it with a spiritual
2:02:11
being where we don't have any idea how it is interacting with
2:02:16
the material world and that material world which we can't
2:02:19
really understand either. And in that complicated system,
2:02:22
we're supposed to. Work scientifically.
2:02:25
I suppose the next time you go to the physician and you have
2:02:27
some kind of a pain will be pointed out to you.
2:02:30
It's probably some Little Rock that God forgot.
2:02:32
There doesn't make any sense to me.
2:02:37
And and what I want to say to conclude here at the beginning,
2:02:43
Doctor Hovind offered a general ethical principle, and that is
2:02:47
that we have an inheritance of sin.
2:02:52
I find it abhorrent. I find that absolutely
2:02:55
incredible, to even believe that anybody who has seen a baby and
2:03:00
is holding us in your arms, would you really believe that
2:03:03
that is hell bound that that has inherited sin?
2:03:10
It's a it's a it's a most objectionable concept that is
2:03:14
being carried around here in the name of religion.
2:03:19
And for that reason, I also believe that we really do have a
2:03:21
very clear cut science ever because evolution is self
2:03:25
correcting, It is cuming data that it's checking each other.
2:03:29
It has the open scientific community exchanging ideas with
2:03:33
each other, checking on each other and not some kind of an
2:03:36
authoritative system that is loaded down on us where we have
2:03:40
no possibility of questioning. The one is democracy, the
2:03:44
scientific community the other. Is a form of authoritarianism
2:03:48
that I find very objectionable. I'd like to quote from this
2:04:00
creationist book for my closing. There's a section in here 342.
2:04:05
It says Scientific Truths Revealed in the Bible.
2:04:09
Many important scientific truths were revealed in the Bible
2:04:11
thousands of years before they were discovered by modern
2:04:13
scientists. And then it lists several of
2:04:16
them. One of them has to do with.
2:04:19
The earth rotating on its axis. And that's, you know, the six
2:04:22
day thing. Another one has to do with the
2:04:24
earth running down the second alternative dynamics.
2:04:26
And there's some stuff about blood and water, that kind of
2:04:28
stuff. But anyway, here is the proof
2:04:31
from the Bible that the earth rotates on its axis.
2:04:35
It says it tells these students to take check Luke 1731 through
2:04:40
34 in that day he which shall be upon the housetop.
2:04:47
And his stuff in the house, let him not come down and take it
2:04:50
away. And he that is in the field, let
2:04:53
him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife, Whosoever
2:04:59
shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever
2:05:03
shall lose his life shall preserve it.
2:05:06
I tell you, in the night there shall be two men in one bed, and
2:05:09
one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
2:05:13
I did not understand that. I called a Becca.
2:05:17
I said what does that mean? Well, you check with the
2:05:20
teacher's manual to find out what that means and they keep.
2:05:23
They went, right? And they came back.
2:05:25
They said, we're sorry, that's not mentioned in the teacher's
2:05:27
manual. I said, well, you know, is it a
2:05:30
possibility is a misprint. They took that as an insult and
2:05:34
said no, it's not a possibility and click.
2:05:37
They hung up the second one. The universe is running down.
2:05:45
To find out the proof from the Bible of the universe is running
2:05:48
down, you go to Isaiah 51 Six and it says, lift up your eyes
2:05:54
to the heavens and look upon the earth beneath.
2:05:56
For the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth
2:06:00
shall wax old like a garment, and thee that dwell within shall
2:06:03
die in like manner. But my salvation shall be
2:06:06
forever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
2:06:11
I didn't understand that either. I hope the applause means that
2:06:18
you understood that that has something to do with the second
2:06:21
law of thermodynamics and not Anyway.
2:06:27
Anyway, I decided to take a quote from one of the best known
2:06:34
creationists in the country. Explaining to me or to all of
2:06:40
us, why all these colleges all over the world do not accept
2:06:45
creationism. Here's the quote.
2:06:49
It's from a fellow named Kent Hovine and it came from the
2:06:54
sources I got it from the Internet.
2:06:55
The unmasking the false religion of evolution.
2:06:59
Here's his quote. There is definitely a
2:07:02
conspiracy, but I don't think it's in a human conspiracy.
2:07:06
I don't believe that there's smoke filled rooms where groups
2:07:09
of men get together and decide to teach evolution in all the
2:07:11
schools. I believe it's a much higher
2:07:14
level. I believe it is a satanic
2:07:17
conspiracy. The reason these different
2:07:20
people come to the same conclusions is not because they
2:07:23
all met together. It's because they all work for
2:07:26
the devil. I think that was one of the most
2:07:40
arrogant statements I've ever read in my life.
2:07:51
And if we're going to use the Bible for science, we've got
2:07:57
some tough things to explain. What about the cockatrice?
2:08:01
It's mentioned four times in the Bible.
2:08:03
It's a chicken. A rooster.
2:08:06
That lays poison, eggs that can fly and spits fire.
2:08:10
The What are we going to do about Dragons being mentioned 17
2:08:13
times in the Bible? What are you going, what are you
2:08:17
going to do about unicorns or mentioned eight times in the
2:08:20
Bible? I want to tell you what we have
2:08:23
never found a fossil or Unicorn. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we
2:08:28
did? Then you people would have
2:08:29
something to applaud. For.
2:08:31
OK. Thank you.
2:08:36
All right. Well, first I need to say,
2:08:40
fellas, I thank you so much for doing this.
2:08:42
These students get about nine months out of the year teaching
2:08:45
on evolution. It's about time to get a couple
2:08:47
hours on at least to hear a conflict between creation and
2:08:50
evolution. And I will be glad to come back
2:08:52
at my expense anytime now. People say, oh, creationists win
2:08:58
the debates because they have, you know.
2:09:01
Better visuals. OK, I don't use any tax dollars
2:09:04
to buy my visuals. You guys got unlimited funding
2:09:06
to buy stuff here? Get some better visuals.
2:09:07
Don't blame me. People say, well, creationists
2:09:09
win because they have a dumb audience.
2:09:11
The dumb people are dumb if they believe in creation.
2:09:13
That's that's the implication over and over.
2:09:15
People be believe because we need more money to teach
2:09:18
evolution. That's why it's a lack of
2:09:19
funding. That's why we're losing these
2:09:20
debates. No.
2:09:22
Maybe you're losing the debates because you're wrong and I'm
2:09:26
right, OK? Several points were brought up,
2:09:32
and I'll use a few of my minutes for this.
2:09:33
And then I want to give a quick closing here.
2:09:36
I'm in favor of the scientific method.
2:09:38
You develop a theory, you gather facts to support your theory.
2:09:41
If you can't find any facts, you throw the theory away.
2:09:43
Evolution would have been thrown away a long time ago, except
2:09:45
they don't have a replacement theory other than maybe somebody
2:09:49
designed it. Oh, they don't want that one.
2:09:52
He mentioned he doesn't believe about inherent sin.
2:09:58
Well, I happened to have had three kids and two grandkids.
2:10:00
One more do any day. We didn't teach any of them to
2:10:04
lie or cheat or steal, but they all just kind of did it
2:10:09
automatically. How many of you noticed the same
2:10:10
thing with your kids when you're raising them?
2:10:11
OK, yes. I think it's quite obvious to
2:10:13
anybody that's raised any kids. There is an inherent sin nature.
2:10:17
If you think man is inherently good, you're living in La La
2:10:20
land, OK? Man is inherently bad, OK?
2:10:23
And he needs a savior. He said you don't want an
2:10:27
authoritative system that's very objectionable to you.
2:10:30
That is my entire point. The reason people reject the
2:10:34
creation stories because they don't want somebody telling them
2:10:36
what to do. The Bible says in the last days
2:10:38
scoffers would come that would be willingly ignorant of the
2:10:42
creation and the flood. Second Peter Chapter 3, Read it
2:10:45
for yourself. They're willingly ignorant of
2:10:47
the creation, because that creation event tells us God
2:10:51
created this place, which means he owns it, which means he makes
2:10:54
the rules. They don't want to admit there
2:10:56
was a flood because that flood indicates God has the authority
2:11:00
to judge his creation. They just don't want to admit
2:11:03
that. I cover this very thoroughly, By
2:11:04
the way, on Seminar Part 2. You might want to watch that
2:11:07
one. And they're right there out
2:11:08
there. And by the way, my stuff's not
2:11:09
copyrighted. You can get it, copy it and send
2:11:11
back the originals and get your money back.
2:11:12
That's always been our policy. So yes, I can understand why the
2:11:15
idea of an authoritarian, you know, Bible is objectionable to
2:11:19
some people. Because that Bible says thou
2:11:21
shalt not do, you know, quite a few things.
2:11:24
OK, so. Yeah, I understand.
2:11:26
The Bible says the fool has said in his heart there is no God.
2:11:30
I think the evidence for a designer is so obvious all
2:11:33
around us, if you're walking through the woods and you find a
2:11:36
painting hanging on the tree and you see no footprints, you see
2:11:39
no people, you still conclude there was a painter.
2:11:44
If you're walking through the woods and you find a building
2:11:45
and you see no footprints, you see no people, you still
2:11:48
conclude there was a builder. When you see a watch, that's
2:11:51
proof of a watchmaker. When you see a creation, that's
2:11:53
proof of a creator, whether you ever meet him or not.
2:11:56
There just had to be one. Now, who is it?
2:11:58
Is it Allah or Buddha or Jehovah?
2:12:00
Well, that's a different set of arguments.
2:12:01
But the fact is there must have been a designer.
2:12:03
Whoever he was. There had to be a designer.
2:12:05
We can argue later about which one's right, OK, but there had
2:12:08
to be. People object to that.
2:12:09
You said what does Luke mean? Luke was telling them that in
2:12:12
that day some will be in the field and some will be in bed.
2:12:17
That's proof the world is round. It's dark on one side.
2:12:21
That's evidence right there. So I can explain.
2:12:22
I don't know why Becker couldn't explain it, but that's pretty
2:12:24
obvious to me Now. Hang on.
2:12:27
What happened here? OK, I visited Wayne Strickland's
2:12:34
tombstone. I don't know if the other dates
2:12:36
filled in yet or not. It's been a couple years since
2:12:37
I've been there, but the date was empty when I was there.
2:12:39
He said he's an atheist. Bible says the fool has said in
2:12:42
his heart there is no God. God does not believe in
2:12:44
atheists. Actually, I don't either.
2:12:47
OK, you're going to die one of these days.
2:12:50
I'm going to die now, Fellas. I didn't drive all the way over
2:12:51
here and leave my gorgeous wife because I like being gone.
2:12:54
OK, I I didn't come to win an argument.
2:12:57
I came to win you over. Honestly, I would like to see
2:13:01
you saved going to heaven. Maybe you think you are.
2:13:03
I don't know. But if you think God used
2:13:04
evolution, you have the wrong God.
2:13:06
OK. I know you write all kinds of
2:13:08
articles for the Atheist magazine according to your bio
2:13:10
here Jim and and I think that. People run from God.
2:13:14
People can't find God for the same reason a thief can't find a
2:13:17
policeman. I sacrifice my time to travel
2:13:27
and to do this because I'm concerned that people are
2:13:31
actually dying and going to hell.
2:13:33
I'm really concerned that that really happens.
2:13:34
I believe the Bible teaches that.
2:13:36
I believe that's literally true. I believe we were designed for a
2:13:38
purpose. And God loves each of us.
2:13:41
He hates our sin. The Bible says he's angry with
2:13:44
the wicked every day. God hates our sin, but he loves
2:13:48
us. And we are inherently sinful.
2:13:51
And we're going to die. All of us are going to die, and
2:13:53
you're going to be dead for a really, really long time.
2:13:57
OK? George Washington died 205 years
2:14:00
ago and he is still dead. I don't care how long you live.
2:14:06
You're going to be dead longer than that.
2:14:07
And you better think about that long and hard.
2:14:11
You better be really positive you're right on this one.
2:14:14
God made this world. He owns it.
2:14:15
He makes the rules, and we are guilty of breaking his rules.
2:14:18
So rather than admit we've broken his rules, people say,
2:14:21
well, there is no God. We got it by evolution.
2:14:22
Which means, of course, there are no rules.
2:14:24
If evolution is true, there are no rules.
2:14:26
I asked the question at the beginning.
2:14:27
I never got an answer. If evolution is true, how do we
2:14:31
tell right from wrong? How do we tell right from wrong?
2:14:35
God told us very clearly. Thou shalt not bear false
2:14:37
witness. Don't lie.
2:14:39
We've all lied, don't steal. We've stolen things.
2:14:44
We broke his commandments. Folks were guilty, period.
2:14:47
Which means we're going to be punished or you got to find a
2:14:49
substitute. And that's where Jesus comes in.
2:14:52
The God that made this world also came down and said, look,
2:14:55
you blew it. You're all sinners.
2:14:56
You're all going to hell. However, I still love you and I
2:14:58
still want to forgive you. I'll even die and take your
2:15:01
place. You can't beat a deal like that
2:15:05
now. Romans chapter one, Romans
2:15:11
chapter one gives us a clear progression and I would
2:15:14
recommend every atheist or evolutionist or agnostic Read
2:15:17
Romans chapter one very carefully because that which may
2:15:21
be known of God, he he may be known.
2:15:24
OK, you may know things about him.
2:15:25
You can learn about God. That which may be known is
2:15:28
manifest in them, for God hath showed it unto them, you know.
2:15:32
There's a designer, OK, I don't care about all your arguments.
2:15:34
You know somebody made this place.
2:15:36
The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are
2:15:39
clearly seen being understood by the things that are made.
2:15:42
Even his eternal power and Godhead.
2:15:43
So they are without excuse, judgment day.
2:15:46
You're just flat seriously in trouble.
2:15:48
OK, because then when they knew God, they glorified him.
2:15:52
Not as God neither we're thankful, but became vain in
2:15:54
their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened.
2:15:57
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
2:16:01
And change the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image
2:16:04
made like a corruptible man. And birds and four footed beasts
2:16:06
and creeping things. They worship the creation.
2:16:09
That's what evolution is all about, save the planet.
2:16:12
Wherefore God gave them up to uncleanness through their own
2:16:15
lusts, to dishonor their own hearts and dishonor their own
2:16:17
bodies. Between them he changed the
2:16:19
truth of God into a lie, and worship, served and worshiped,
2:16:22
worshiped, and served the creature more than the Creator.
2:16:26
I mean to them. The animals are more important.
2:16:28
Look, I like animals. I take care of the animals we
2:16:30
have around our place, and I think Christians take care of
2:16:33
their things. But folks, this whole concept of
2:16:35
nature is all there is. We got to save the planet.
2:16:38
I don't pollute. I try hard not to.
2:16:40
I work very hard to keep our place clean and we do a very
2:16:42
good job. I think you can come visit
2:16:43
Pensacola, FL. But that's not the that's not
2:16:46
the ultimate goal of life. Bible says God gave them up.
2:16:51
You follow this trend, They don't want God telling them what
2:16:53
to do. So God gives up on them.
2:16:54
OK, you do what you want. And they get turned over to vile
2:16:58
affections. That's the way it always goes.
2:16:59
It descends. You can read the rest of the
2:17:00
chapter. It goes right into
2:17:01
homosexuality. By the way, if your job is to
2:17:04
pass on your genes and you're the fittest, well, they're not
2:17:07
the fittest, that's for sure. They're not passing on any
2:17:09
genes. Anybody.
2:17:11
I talked. I've been a long time on that
2:17:12
one. But God's going to judge this
2:17:14
planet. He tells us he's going to have
2:17:16
to, because man has rejected him Now.
2:17:18
They professed them. They thought they were wise.
2:17:20
They became fools. And if you believe your grandpa
2:17:22
was a rock, you're fool. Some of my ancestors probably
2:17:26
swung by their necks, OK, but none of them swung by their
2:17:28
tails. Now, if you think your grandpa
2:17:31
was a monkey, I think you're still a fool.
2:17:32
But that's OK. You have the right to believe
2:17:34
that. You do not, however, have the
2:17:35
right to use tax dollars to teach that fairy tale in a
2:17:38
public university at taxpayer expense.
2:17:40
I think evolution should be taught in private schools at
2:17:42
private expense. Now, you guys are not the enemy.
2:17:45
I don't. I I I I love you and I want to
2:17:47
help you. OK.
2:17:47
I think you're deceived. And it's worse that you're
2:17:49
deceiving others if you're teaching this stuff now.
2:17:52
There are people here tonight with yellow shirts on.
2:17:54
If you'd stand up. If you you're supposed to be
2:17:55
standing up with the yellow shirt, you know who you are.
2:17:57
These people right here are willing to talk to you and show
2:17:59
you how you can become a Christian and go to heaven.
2:18:02
OK. That's why I do this.
2:18:03
I want to convert people, get them saved.
2:18:05
That's why I'm here. OK.
2:18:06
I think the scientific evidence is on our side.
2:18:08
I think I'm right. I think I won the debate
2:18:09
tonight, actually. But it's not because I'm smart.
2:18:12
It's because I'm right. And God loves you.
2:18:14
He wants to save you and forgive you.
2:18:15
See one of these folks afterwards?
2:18:16
We'll be glad to help any way we can.
2:18:17
Thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this
2:18:21
video series on creation, evolution, and dinosaurs.
2:18:24
Much more important, though, than knowing all the truth and
2:18:26
facts about science is to know the truth about whether you're
2:18:29
going to heaven or not. If you've never trusted Christ
2:18:31
as your Savior, let me explain quickly what you need to do to
2:18:35
go to heaven. The Bible says we're all
2:18:37
sinners. We've all broken God's laws.
2:18:39
We've disobeyed the Creator. We've we've done wicked things.
2:18:43
We're sinners. Some are worse than others, at
2:18:45
least in man's eyes, but we've all broken God's laws.
2:18:48
And the Bible says you have to repent.
2:18:50
The word repent means to turn. It actually means two things, to
2:18:53
turn from your sin and to turn to God.
2:18:55
God's looking for a change in your attitude where you say,
2:18:58
Lord, I don't want to do wrong anymore.
2:18:59
I'm sorry I've offended you. I want to do right.
2:19:02
And you turn from sin and you turn to God and say God, would
2:19:05
you please forgive me? Would you save me?
2:19:08
The Bible says in Romans chapter 3, verse 23 that all have sinned
2:19:12
and come short of the glory of God.
2:19:14
You need to admit you're a Sinner. #2 The Bible says in
2:19:17
Romans 623 the wages of sin is death.
2:19:20
We deserve to die and go to hell because of our sin.
2:19:23
But Jesus died for you. He loves you.
2:19:26
He wants you to come to heaven and anybody that will ask him
2:19:29
for the free salvation, God will give you the gift of eternal
2:19:32
life. It says in Romans 623.
2:19:34
It's a free gift. And it says in Romans chapter 10
2:19:37
and verse 13, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
2:19:40
shall be saved. If you would just call and say,
2:19:42
Lord, I'm a Sinner, would you please forgive me?
2:19:45
And ask him. He will give you that free gift
2:19:47
of eternal life. Why don't you just pray with me
2:19:50
right now and you could receive Christ as your savior.
2:19:52
There's no magic words. God's looking at your heart.
2:19:54
But if you could say this and mean it, God would forgive you.
2:19:57
Just say, Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I'm a Sinner.
2:20:00
I've broken your laws. I'm sorry.
2:20:02
Please forgive me. Please apply your blood to my
2:20:05
account. Forgive my sins and take me to
2:20:08
heaven. In Jesus name, Amen.
2:20:11
Bible says if you call upon the Lord, you shall be saved.
2:20:15
So if you've asked the Lord to save you, he promised he'd save
2:20:17
you. Now your job is to grow, read
2:20:19
your Bible, pray, get involved in a good Bible believing
2:20:21
church, and begin to grow to be a good Christian.
2:20:24
Thank you so much, caller. Right.
2:20:25
If we can be any help at all, we'd be glad to help.