Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 214. HGSE Global Citizen: Frank Arce: Education as a Bridge to Joy in Difficult Times

Transcript

214. HGSE Global Citizen: Frank Arce: Education as a Bridge to Joy in Difficult Times · Be A Global Citizen!

0:05
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
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explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
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value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm
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Ahsoka, researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
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stories and insights on this podcast to be valuable and
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inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy. Hola, My name is Frank RC, I'm
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based in Cambridge, MA, and I'm the Assistant Dean for
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Admissions and Financial Aid at the Harvard Graduate School of
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Education. Hola Frank, thank you so much
0:46
for joining me on the podcast. And I'm really excited that we
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have this opportunity to, to reconnect and for, for you to
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share more about your journey as an educator, so school leader,
0:59
as a university administrator, all of the things.
1:02
And I really appreciate you because during my time at
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Hugsie, you were incredibly supportive and just a really
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bright figure on campus and online to, to support students
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in making their educational journeys at Harvard possible.
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And I think that that, you know, there's the definitely this
1:23
feeling of a calling that you bring to your work for all
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students, I would say, but in particular, right, minority
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students. And you know, there's this kind
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of core aspect of why that diversity is so important.
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And, and I wanted to learn more about what brought you to the
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work and what really ignites your passion in education
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serving students. So passing it back to you for
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you to share some of the milestones of your journey.
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And yeah, any, any special influences and individuals in
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your life that brought you to a place like Harvard?
1:59
Thank you. Thank you for having me, Scott.
2:01
It's always, it's always a pleasure connecting with you.
2:04
Yeah. I've been working in higher
2:05
education now for a little over 20 plus years.
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I'm passionate about college access and college success.
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I think as administrators, as educational leaders, we talk a
2:17
lot about college access, but it's really important to also
2:20
have the infrastructure, the tools to make sure students are
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successful and thrive throughout their academic journey.
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So I always say college access and success.
2:29
I started my career, actually I was staying in my undergraduate
2:33
work. I attended the University of
2:35
Illinois Champaign Urbana and I needed to find employment.
2:39
I needed to work. Unfortunately, I did not have
2:42
the financial means to have the luxury of not working.
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And so I applied for federal work study and I was placed in
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the financial aid office. And it was in the financial aid
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office that I realized I can, you can have a career in higher
2:54
education. I did not know that you can have
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a career in higher education. And I worked in different
3:00
admissions, financial aid, student services offices from
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throughout my four years in my undergrad and just fell in love
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with it. So when it was time to graduate,
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I, I earned my degree in finance, but really felt like I,
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my passion was in college and university work.
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And that's where I started my career.
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And it was really meaningful because as I was thinking about
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my process of going through higher education, navigating
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that space, unfortunately, I didn't have, I'm first
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generation, my mom did a lot of great work, but I just didn't
3:29
have the resources of knowing how to navigate that landscape.
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And so that really kind of ignited a fire in me as well to
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think about this work and how I want to make sure that others
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have access in a way that's meaningful and that they're
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really looking at all of their options as they're making a very
3:46
important decision. Because we know a college
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education is vital for not only intellectual growth, but I'm
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also thinking about social mobility, ability for career
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mobility. And also I, I, I'm a very strong
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believer that education overall is a public good.
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It's a human rights, it's a human right.
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And so, yeah, that's my journey into higher education.
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As I kept on leaning more into the field, I started taking out
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more responsibilities, started learning more about the
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different aspects of the student life cycle.
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And with that, I started taking out more leadership positions.
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I'm Chicago. I was born and raised in
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Chicago. That's where I started my
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career, and then I had the privilege of going to New York
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City to work for Columbia University overseeing their
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financial aid infrastructure. During that time, I knew that I
4:32
wanted to also continue to advance my skill sets, so I
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decided to pursue my doctorate at NYU and I'd focus on on
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leadership and innovation. My work specifically focused on
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financial Wellness and literacy in the post secondary space.
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And after I finished my doctorate, it was an amazing
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opportunity at the Harvard Graduate School of Education to
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join the financial aid team. And through that work, I then
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had the privilege to oversee admissions.
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And that's where I'm at now and just loving the work.
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HSC is doing amazing work in the field of education, just like
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you, Scott, the work that you're doing.
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And our model is learned to change the world.
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And I, I'm just excited that I, I have the privilege to help
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move that work forward. Awesome.
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I didn't know that you were from Chicago.
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So I, I frequently go to Chicago and love the city and so many
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wonderful, incredible people there.
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And I kind of wanted to focus our attention a little bit more
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on that, that early part of, of your career, since it sounds
5:35
like, you know, you came in with this understanding of I'm going
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to get a degree in finance. And, and yet you, you would left
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with a very different pathway that you were very excited to
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pursue. And I'm just curious, like you
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said, that, you know, you had this opportunity and you just
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took a job in the financial aid office and then, you know,
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exposed to all these different processes and interacting with
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many students probably as well as, you know, the administrators
6:01
there. But at what point did it click
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for you? What made it so like exciting
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and and you know, special for you?
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Could you maybe like kind of for the micros microscope to that?
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I'd be curious to to know what that was for you.
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Definitely, definitely. So I was super excited to be
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studying finance at UIUC, but when I started doing financial
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aid work, so working in the financial aid office as a
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federal work city student, I was, I was, I was being taught
6:32
the entire financial aid process from A through Z.
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And I did not realize how complex it is that there's
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federal oversight, there is institutional oversight.
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And as I was learning all aspects of like we usually we
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think about the financial aid application for domestic
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students, we think about the free application for federal
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student aid, the FAFSA. But then what are the things
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that happen after an individual completes the FAFSA?
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And that's where I was learning. I was learning those, the
7:00
complexities around that form, the formulas that are involved
7:03
in making these financial aid decisions.
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We understand that financial aid is crucial for a lot of
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individuals to decide what institution they're going to
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attend. So learning all of like, like
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the secret sauce was so exciting that I was like, wow, this is a
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lot more complicated than I thought.
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I thought it was like originally when I'm being a young, a young
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adult, fill out the FAFSA. Even though the FAFSA was very
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complex itself, but filling it out, submitting it, and then you
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should get it. You'll get some information
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back, you'll get some financial aid.
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I didn't realize how many additional steps.
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And sometimes that's got a little controversial because I
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think specifically for federal financial aid in this in the
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United States, I think that we've made it quite complex.
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We made the system quite complex, which can sometimes be
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an A barrier for folks to even try to pursue financial aid for
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higher education. But going back to my experience
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at UIUC learning all those steps, I found it to be
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exciting. And then I was like, wow, I
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didn't realize folks were actually dedicating their
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careers to this type of work. The directors of financial aid
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across the country are doing some amazing work.
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So it's a high pressure position.
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It's a high pressure office, especially it's with all the
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regulations and also trying to meet the institutional goals
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with and we understand that a lot of funding is finite.
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There's not a lot of institutions don't have
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unlimited funding. So how do you strategically
8:31
think about the funding that you have, the mission of the
8:33
institution and trying to make sure that you are recruiting a
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cohort of individuals that are passionate about not only the
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work that they're going to be doing, but the impact that
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they're going to have later on when you put all that together?
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Yeah, it's, I can say it's a little stressful, but it's also
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very exciting. And, and so important, right, I
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think what you were talking about in terms of the decisions
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that these students and their families have to make, right?
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It's it, it comes down to cost. And, and I think that, you know,
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there's a certain extent that families are, are willing to
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like invest in that education and thereby, you know, take out
9:13
student loans and, you know, find ways to, to make it work.
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But I think, you know what we've seen more and more, right?
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The trend being that the expense is, is, is quite daunting.
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So I think it's really, it's really wonderful to hear from
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someone who works within, you know, the, the financial aid
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office and who has such, you know, breadth of experience in
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that area. To know that like there's really
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capable educators and like, you know, school leaders that are
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kind of really racking their brains to understand not only
9:45
the processes, but how to, you know, keep those, those families
9:50
like front of mind because that's those are the families
9:52
that they're serving. And they're really trying to
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open up that, that access. And so, you know, for you to
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like, understand the like the importance of financial aid, you
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know, it kind of seemed like, you know, you were the student
10:04
worker and you were, you know, taking a look under the hood,
10:07
right initially. And you were just like amazed at
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this process. But you said that, you know,
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previously you just kind of thought of like FAFSA and maybe
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a few other things and that was it.
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Could you share like when you were applying to the University
10:21
of Illinois, like what was your understanding of financial aid
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and like, was that a big, you know, component of you making
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your decision for college? Like from a personal sense?
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Because you also said that, you know, you, you you're first Gen.
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and you also, you know, didn't have quite the same extent of
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resources or understanding of how to, how to apply for
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colleges. So could you maybe share from
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the personal side, side like what was it like for you?
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Yes, thank you. Great question.
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It was it was scary. It was daunting.
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I knew that I was I I knew that I wanted to attend college.
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I knew that that was definitely going to be in my story.
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I knew that I wanted to be the first in my family to go to
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college and I had the privilege of going to a great high school
11:01
in Chicago, IL Lane Tech Shout out.
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And that when it was time to navigate the financial aid
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process, it was very confusing. And unfortunately, I did not
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have the access to go to my mom or my members of my family to
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walk me through that process. So I had to proactively identify
11:19
other folks. And at that, that point, I did
11:22
not really have mentors And I, I'm a big advocate of mentor
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mentorship. I think it's huge.
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So I had to try to spend some time with my admissions
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counselor for the school got a little bit of information, but
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part of it was me trying to proactively reach out to
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different organizations that I know that we're doing.
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And that was me taking a proactive step to try to do
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that. And that's where when I do my
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work right now, I, I know a lot of folks that really want to
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pursue higher education, but just don't under don't have that
11:51
road map and might not even know where to start.
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So I think that's where a lot of work still needs to happen.
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And just when I talk, when I think about just college
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affordability and indebtedness, you mentioned, Scott, as you
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were talking about the cost and the important like how it's such
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a big factor for students and families to make an informed
12:10
decision. College costs has skyrocketed.
12:14
We know that tuition has gone up and up every year.
12:18
Funding financial aid has either stayed stable or actually
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declined. And when we think about
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financially, not only from a domestic aspect of from our on
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an international aspect as well, because I'm thinking about HSC,
12:31
for example, when we want to, we, our motto has learned to
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change the world. So we want our international
12:37
scholars in the classroom. They add value to the classroom,
12:40
to the conversation that we know that even then that's another
12:43
layer. The cost adds a whole nother
12:45
layer for our international scholars to be even even have be
12:48
able to access HGFC. So and I see that as well when I
12:52
talk to peers at other colleges and universities be that
12:54
undergraduate and graduate space.
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So, so that's my personal side is just not having that, that
13:02
road map, not having those peers really, really impacted where I
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ended up at. So luckily I was able to
13:10
complete the FAFSA. I was UUIUC proactively reached
13:15
out to students in the Chicagoland area.
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So by that, by that proactive outreach, that was what got me
13:22
connected with them. And then I realized that this is
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what I wanted to do. But now when I, if I, I would
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say I graduated and I graduated in 2003.
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So if I look at it 23 years later, I probably I love U of I
13:35
had formative years transformative really set my
13:39
career that I probably would have not have picked that
13:42
institution. I didn't know that these other
13:44
institutions were an opportunity.
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And it's because I being first generation, I just didn't have
13:49
that knowledge. And now I look at it like I
13:51
could have applied to a number of other.
13:52
I could have probably applied to Harvard College, but I it was
13:55
just never part of my story. But I mean, I don't regret it.
13:58
I, I, I loved UI, UC great experience, but and it, it was
14:04
where I was able to find my passion in working higher
14:06
education. Yeah.
14:09
Well, I mean, being able to find one's passion I think is, you
14:12
know, priceless. I mean, so many people go about
14:15
pursuing dead ends or kind of working in jobs that feel like a
14:18
dead end itself. And I think that there's no
14:22
coincidence in the path that you took.
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But I mean, I find it very interesting when we look back in
14:28
hindsight that the kind of version of ourselves and then
14:32
also the, you know, media environment that we found
14:34
ourselves might have in some ways, like not afforded that
14:38
broader Vista that maybe we were able to appreciate now.
14:42
And, and then I also just wanted to say that I mean, like, rather
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than study at Harvard College, like what better way than to be
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an administrator at Harvard itself, right?
14:53
Because I think that level of impact, it's, it's very big,
14:57
right? Considering, you know there's a
14:59
difference between the student experience and then you're
15:01
working at the institution itself.
15:04
No, I agree with you 100%. Now being able to work in the
15:08
space, now I can lean into my my experience, even though I know
15:13
it's, it's over 2, two decades ago, but still lean into that
15:16
experience, which I think still resonates with a lot of folks
15:19
when I'm in the field, talking to students and family.
15:22
And then thinking about our admissions process, thinking
15:25
about our current policies and how do we make sure that we are
15:30
being intentional with our recruitment, intentional with
15:33
our engagement to make sure that we have a diverse and vibrant
15:38
community. And I lean into that.
15:40
I am, I'm very passionate about HDSC having a diverse and
15:44
vibrant community. That is a lot of science folks
15:47
think about race and ethnic identity.
15:48
That's an important component. But I'm also thinking socio
15:51
economic, I'm thinking geographic.
15:53
It's really domestic, international students.
15:57
It's having all of these individuals that just make the
16:00
environment richer and the conversations richer.
16:03
Undoubtedly IA 100% agree with that.
16:06
And I, I really appreciate you know, the way with which you're,
16:10
you're speaking about your, your role as an administrator at
16:13
Harvard. You're you lean in to those
16:16
lived experiences that you had yourself and you're really
16:20
making it clear when you meet with students, whether it's the
16:23
the first e-mail that you connect with them over or it's
16:27
the first in person meeting that you have.
16:29
But you, you, you try to have them like understand that
16:33
financial aid, it's yes, it is about the numbers, right?
16:36
That's very important. But it's also like these human
16:39
to human connections, right? And this understanding that, you
16:43
know, from your your role, from my financial aid, but then also
16:47
all of the other different departments on campus, it's
16:50
really to Orient yourself towards serving students and
16:53
helping them grow, right thrive during their their time at at
16:58
Harvard and and then set themselves, you know, these
17:01
students up for even more success to make make good on
17:06
that, that motto of learning to change the world, right, where
17:09
they do in fact, change the world, right.
17:12
And I think that that's that's really powerful.
17:14
And, and I wanted to hear maybe a little bit more on that, that
17:17
topic of the importance of diversity on campus and how that
17:21
sets, you know, the conditions for people to to learn even more
17:25
grow together. But you, you kind of, you know,
17:28
touched on it already in terms of like the different, you know,
17:30
aspects of diversity. But yeah, could you maybe speak
17:34
a little bit more about what does that really look like on
17:37
campus? You know, in terms of when you
17:39
like step into like cutting in library and walk into, you know,
17:43
class. But like, yeah, what are the
17:45
things that you'll, you'll see typically and like, what are
17:48
some of the conversations that you you pick up on when, when
17:51
you're there? Oh, I think it's, it's, it's,
17:54
it's just a rich environment. I think when I walk into to
17:58
Gutman, right walk into those stores, it's just exciting to,
18:01
in the open space to see students from so many different
18:04
walks of life. And I think that is so important
18:07
for not just their growth, but just the in the overall
18:11
educational environment at HDFC. As we think about, I've said it
18:15
a couple of times, the mission of Learn to Change the World is
18:17
just really having all of these different voices in the space
18:21
together, navigating complex issues and having robust
18:25
conversations on topics that they might not always agree on.
18:28
I think it's that we, we, we have a big emphasis on dialogues
18:32
across differences. That's a component of it, but
18:35
it's, I just find, so I, I find a lot of pride in knowing that
18:39
our population is diverse and just not only number of
18:44
countries represented, which I think is very important, but
18:47
also just folks in different walks of life, be that folks
18:51
coming from rural populations, urban populations, folks coming
18:55
from different sectors, which is very important and allows for
18:59
that cross sectoral learning. It allows when there's
19:02
conversations happening for folks to look at it from a
19:04
different lens and to share their lived experience.
19:06
Like I think there's a big emphasis on folks bringing in
19:09
their lived experience into the classroom or even outside the
19:12
classroom in those conversations.
19:14
That can help. Like it's not to change people's
19:16
perspectives or so, but to give people some additional tools in
19:20
their toolkit as they're navigating different topics.
19:23
So I think it's just so powerful to see that.
19:26
I love the fact that we have a very, very diverse community.
19:30
And like I said, it's just in so many different facets.
19:33
It's, it's just exciting when I walk in the door and I see the
19:36
students just like, like hugging each other and just like, or
19:40
just like studying and stuff like that.
19:41
I mean, Scott, you've, you've seen it first hand.
19:44
You've seen it on when you've been on campus.
19:47
I mean, we call HSC, they call it Hugsy or Hugsy as a hug.
19:52
Yeah, no, I, I mean, I love that about, about the culture, the
19:55
learning environment at Hugsy because it really resonated with
20:00
so many of like my, my, my core values in terms of what like the
20:04
kind of individuals that I, you know, really respect.
20:08
And also that I strive to be myself, right?
20:11
Someone who is, is approachable, someone who is caring, someone
20:14
who is passionate, someone who puts in the hard work, I to, to
20:18
realize change in our immediate environment and beyond.
20:22
And yeah, I felt that when talking with a lot of the
20:25
students, faculty, staff. At Huggsy, because it's very
20:30
evident that, you know, people are coming, coming at the the
20:33
work of, of education from from different backgrounds and, and
20:37
they don't shy away from speaking about where they came
20:41
from and also what they're aiming towards.
20:45
And even, you know, even they're still like kind of working out
20:48
what that even means, you know, myself included.
20:51
It's, it's very evidence that, you know, they've, they've put
20:54
in that work to really reflect on like what are the, you know,
20:58
kind of major things that I've experienced and that I've worked
21:02
on and like kind of connecting the dots and like seeing a
21:05
certain pattern towards a certain direction.
21:07
And, and so I'm just curious because you know, when you have
21:10
an environment like that, I find that one of the words that comes
21:14
to, to my mind in terms of like, so like all these people are
21:18
talking and they're learning from each other, but like what's
21:20
really taking place, I find it's, it's, it's passion, right?
21:24
And I think that the word passion is very, very important
21:26
when it comes to us deciding what are like life's purpose is.
21:31
And, and I think it's also very important terms of helping
21:35
ignite the passion of others. So I'm just curious because I'd
21:40
love to hear from you. Like when you hear the word
21:42
passion, what does that kind of like conjure up in, in your head
21:46
in terms of like, like the meaning of it?
21:48
And yeah, so like on a personal level, like what does that mean?
21:52
And then, yeah. And then through, through your
21:54
work, what kind of implications does that have on like, you
21:58
know, supporting others and finding, helping them find their
22:01
passion? Oh, great question.
22:04
When I think of the word passion, I, I think care, I
22:07
think, think determination. These are a couple of words that
22:11
I think that I associate with passion.
22:12
I, I, I think it's and then and then for personally, I think
22:17
about it as like, this is what I'm dedicating myself to.
22:20
This is something that I, I'm going to be fully vested in
22:26
because of the fact that I see it.
22:29
I see it as a positive, a positive light in either
22:32
something that I'm doing or something where I want to go or
22:35
where I want to push, push forward.
22:38
I see that in our students all the time, which is exciting,
22:40
having the privilege of overseeing admissions and we
22:44
practice a holistic admissions. So when we are evaluating A
22:47
applicant, we are looking at so many different criterias and so
22:52
many different pieces of evidence to determine if this
22:54
individual is a right fit for the institution, for the work
22:59
that that HSC wants to do push forward, but also for themselves
23:04
as well. Do they have the passion for of
23:07
like wanting to make meaningful change in the field, but also
23:11
are they doing it for themselves as well?
23:13
I think we, we're, we're very cautious to make sure that the
23:17
students that we are inviting into the community are going and
23:21
benefit, primarily benefit from, for themselves from intellectual
23:24
growth, but also what are they, how are they going to help move
23:29
the work forward? How are they going to impact the
23:31
field? And then I sometimes I think
23:34
that comes back to when we think about it is do they have the
23:36
passion, the passion? Do they have the desire to do
23:40
that work? And while doing that work also,
23:43
are they willing to challenge themselves to, I go back, not
23:48
change their perspective, but to think outside the box, to hear
23:52
new, new voices to take in. They're going to receive quite a
23:56
bit of frameworks, a lot of insight from their classes.
23:59
But are they going to end those conversations with their
24:02
classmates, with their faculty, with staff?
24:04
Are they going to be receptive to continuing to grow?
24:09
And I think that that that growth is is vital.
24:15
Yeah, I thank you so much, Frank.
24:17
I I really appreciate like when when I ask you like about
24:19
passion, it kind of brings up these other words, right, that
24:22
kind of help color the this, this really, you know, loaded
24:28
word that yeah, I like. So like you talked to you said
24:31
caring and like, you know, determination come into play and
24:35
and yeah, and I think that, you know, in terms of the admissions
24:38
process, really understanding that like alignment of values
24:43
and that sense that, you know, this is someone who will not
24:47
only really like benefit themselves, but also from the
24:50
university side that they would really be able to like support
24:54
like, you know, with like the full like resources that the
24:57
place like Harvard has so that you can actualize and like be,
25:00
you know, carry out that that really lofty motto.
25:04
And then even beyond that, just what does Veritas mean?
25:07
But you one thing I also wanted to comment on is that, you know,
25:10
I think when when people think of a place like Harvard, they
25:13
just think, Oh, they're very smart, right?
25:16
They they just, you know it, you know, extremely intelligent,
25:20
right? But as an educator, I think
25:22
about like, what does intelligence means?
25:24
And I know that, you know, there's many different theories
25:27
about like multiple intelligences, right?
25:30
That kind of help to, you know, not have it be so set in one
25:34
way, but I feel like when we kind of go away from just the
25:39
kind of academics like book smarts intelligence that often
25:42
is associated with a lot of these elite universities.
25:46
I think the spectrum of what, what does it mean to like,
25:49
understand like who is a passionate person and who is
25:52
taking actions towards realizing their goals?
25:55
Because I also think passion has something very, very much very
25:59
dynamic, right? It's you have to be in motion.
26:02
It's not something that you're just static.
26:03
You know, there's no way to like, you know, like a flame
26:06
just kind of like stay idle, right?
26:08
Because it'll just burn out. So I feel like there's this
26:10
process of like, you know, constantly adding more to 1's
26:15
flame and of course, having that burn, burn brighter, right?
26:19
Shine out there. And so, yeah, I, you know, I'm
26:23
like hearing these, these different words like caring and
26:27
determination and, and then all within this context of people
26:30
from, from different countries, different cultures and
26:33
traditions. And so I can't help but think
26:35
that, you know, we're kind of starting to coalesce on some
26:38
sense of like what global citizenship means.
26:40
So I'd like to ask, would you say that like global citizenship
26:45
from your, you know, personal perspective, it overlays on this
26:49
conversation about passion? And then is there anything else
26:51
that you'd like to add to that? I'm just curious because it
26:54
sounds like you've really set the ground for this conversation
26:57
about what does it mean to be a global citizen at Hugsy but also
27:00
beyond. No, I think yeah.
27:03
So the my direct answer, my first is yes.
27:06
I think it's a great segment to like thinking about global
27:09
citizenship and just the role of the individual.
27:13
I think about it as like expanding who you feel
27:18
responsible for. And when I think about global
27:20
citizenship and I think, and I and I think education is a great
27:24
segue to that. I think we're, it's easy for us
27:27
as individuals, as humans to really think, to care or think
27:31
about our immediate community. So for me, I could say like our
27:34
students, our staff, the immediate HDSC community, but
27:39
it's, it's how do we stretch that wider?
27:41
And I do that, I do that through the work of admissions, through
27:45
financial aid. When I'm thinking about how do I
27:47
make HDSC more accessible to individuals globally, Like how
27:52
do I make this this, this institution accessible?
27:56
And I think that is one of the responsibility.
27:58
When I think about global citizenship, I think about, yes,
28:01
how do we expand that, that, that, that circle up that we are
28:07
bringing in more folks into and granting more folks visibility
28:12
because of our shared humanity. I, I think that's one of the big
28:15
things that I think about and I, I think it ties in perfectly to
28:18
how you're saying about education.
28:21
Yeah, I'd like, I like the, the word that you use like
28:24
responsible, like this feeling of responsibility for not only
28:28
those just immediately around us, but then, you know, those
28:31
living in, in further distant places.
28:34
And then the word expansion, right?
28:36
Because again, it's something like very dynamic.
28:38
It's not meant to be static. And it it, it definitely implies
28:42
a lot of work and a lot of effort.
28:45
And I would say also vulnerability.
28:48
You know, you, you're kind of having to come at it from a
28:50
place of like solid ground yourself to then be able to
28:54
venture out and really engage others in, in dialogue, to ask
28:59
them about their background, to be able to like sit and listen
29:03
deeply to take in what they share.
29:05
And I think that sometimes the challenge, at least I've, I felt
29:09
this myself, but also with like my students of this kind of like
29:13
feeling of like, well, what happens if I expand the circle
29:17
too quickly? Then it becomes kind of too
29:19
overwhelming and like disempowering.
29:22
Then what happens when the circle starts to diminish and,
29:25
and become smaller? Then it's kind of very
29:28
self-centered and just like, it's just me out against the
29:31
world. And, and so, you know, I'm, I'm
29:34
curious what, what, what kind of advice would you have for the
29:38
listeners out there trying to like make sense of this
29:41
expansion of, of their own spheres of, of influence in
29:44
their environment? Like, how do you strike the
29:47
right balance? I mean, I think there's a
29:49
certain bit of wisdom that I guess I'm trying to get at in
29:53
terms of like, how do you do this in your own work?
29:55
Are there specific things that anchor you in terms of like a
29:59
deeper sense of self that help you to like kind of be able to
30:02
push that expansion and not have it necessarily kind of go back
30:07
in reverse? Is it?
30:09
Yeah. Does that make sense?
30:10
Yeah, it definitely makes sense. I think, I think, I think it's
30:14
important for folks to self reflect.
30:16
Like really it's important to take time to really think about
30:20
what is the work that you're doing and what is the work that
30:23
you want to do and kind of do that assessment of like is, is
30:29
what are what you're currently doing right now?
30:30
Is it, is it making you happy? Is it moving the needle in the
30:33
way that you, that you, that you want?
30:36
It's not that you have to center your, you have to only center
30:39
yourself, but you should, you should prioritize yourself first
30:41
to make sure that you're you're prepared to do the work that you
30:44
want to do. I'm always taking stock of where
30:47
I'm at as an individual, where I'm at in my career, where I'm
30:51
at with my personal life, with my friends, family.
30:54
And then that allows me to just lean into the work that I want
30:58
to do. And then inviting more, like you
31:01
said, more folks into that circle.
31:02
From a professional perspective, I'm always taking stock of like
31:07
what's going on in the industry, what's going on not only
31:10
nationally, but globally. And then I'm thinking about HSC,
31:14
what is HS CS role in this And how are we being like, if I want
31:19
to say good global citizens, how are we then intentionally
31:24
bringing others into the conversation, be that by
31:27
rethinking maybe financial aid policies to specific countries
31:31
that might not have the applicants from that country
31:34
might not have the same financial infrastructure as
31:37
applicants from other more developed countries or so.
31:41
So it's basically one of my mentors always had to share,
31:44
take time to reflect every day and every morning when I wake
31:47
up, I have my cup of coffee and I reflect on what I'm not only
31:52
what I'm doing that day, What's going on in Frank's world?
31:55
How is Frank feeling? And then also then thinking
31:58
about, all right, what impact today that in a longer term does
32:04
Frank want to do? Am I moving the needle in that
32:06
space and how I can be intentional?
32:08
I think it's giving me, I think it's very important to give
32:11
oneself grace, but also to going back to how you said passion to
32:15
to have those flames, to have the have those ideas of like
32:19
what what they, what an individual wants to do.
32:21
And then always taking stock. Are you making positive movement
32:25
in that direction? And sometimes it could be
32:27
something small, but, but I think it that allows me to make
32:30
sure that I'm not like shrinking the circle, but that I'm
32:32
actually intentionally grounding it and also expanding it, but
32:38
not just expanding it just to expand it.
32:40
I want to be intentional with that.
32:42
And I think that's important. Sometimes folks all can be like,
32:45
you know what? I want to do XYZ and I'm going
32:47
to do it really fast and I'm going to just, and then it
32:50
could, you don't want to cause any harm.
32:52
So I think it's how do how do you do that in a strategic way?
32:58
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing in the the, the role that
33:01
impression has and the intentionality that that one
33:05
should bring to understanding their own embeddedness within
33:09
society. When I look at what's happening
33:11
in society, right, there's so much going on and like, you
33:15
know, what does it mean to take full stock of the current social
33:18
and political climate of the world or just of the US, right,
33:22
Kind of get started with our, you know, immediate country
33:26
itself. But it's it often kind of leads,
33:30
I think most people would say it leads them to a certain
33:32
conclude, like certain sense of dread that maybe things have
33:37
gotten a little bit out of hand, right.
33:42
Or there's a sense that we're not quite, you know, in this
33:47
like we're we're new territory. How does how does 1 cultivate
33:51
hope that, you know, the, that we will be able to continue in
33:56
our work advancing, you know, the mission to cultivate new
34:00
educators that are going to learn to change the world.
34:02
Like, I guess like when it seems like we're in like our darkest
34:07
times, Like, what would you say creates hope or how does one
34:12
find hope as a global citizen? I that's a great question.
34:17
Yes, these are some, these are some challenging times.
34:21
We are definitely facing some challenging times when I, when I
34:24
think about the field of education, there's a lot going
34:27
on. But I, I recently was
34:31
presenting, I was a guest speaker in a couple of higher
34:34
education courses at HDSC. And as we were talking about
34:36
the, the current federal landscape and some of the
34:39
challenges and quite a bit, quite a bit of challenges that
34:42
not only colleges and universities across the country
34:44
are facing, but thinking of, I was anchoring this around
34:48
Harvard University. We know that there's quite a bit
34:50
of challenges with with what's going on at Harvard as well is
34:56
one of the questions that I kept on coming is where can one find
34:58
joy in this work? And that's why I appreciate you
35:01
asking that question, Scott, because I find the joy in the
35:04
conversations that are happening in the classroom and with the
35:07
students, by listening to them, by talking to them and or just
35:12
observing the conversations they're having in their.
35:14
These are the individuals that are really thinking about, yes,
35:17
we, we are, we are in some challenging times, but they're
35:20
the ones that are also thinking about, all right, what is going
35:22
to be the future of the field of education?
35:24
What is going to be the future of our country?
35:27
And they're definitely having these conversations.
35:29
And I see in those conversations, even though they
35:31
might be talking about some challenging topics.
35:34
I see, I see the hope in them. I see the spark of like these
35:38
conversations of like, wait, we are we thinking about XYZ?
35:43
Should we be thinking about this?
35:45
And I think it's through those conversations that I think some
35:49
good things are going to happen. I think I, I, yes, we will get
35:53
through these challenging times that I see the joy in our
35:57
students and then I see the joy within and not even in our
36:00
students by, by, by having the privilege to oversee admissions
36:04
and financial aid every, every admission cycle.
36:07
I'm in the field with my team. I am engaging across the
36:11
country, across the US, but also globally.
36:14
We visit a number of countries throughout the year and in those
36:20
information sessions, in those events, talking to folks that
36:24
are already doing some amazing work, folks that are thinking
36:27
about the work that they want to do and how they spark up when
36:30
they talk about the work that they're doing or the work that
36:33
they want to do. That is just like, that's
36:35
rewarding for me because that's where I find my joy.
36:37
But that's where I also know that, you know what, there's
36:40
some talented individuals I'm looking at you, Scott, that are
36:43
doing some amazing things and that we're going to be OK.
36:51
Thank you. I needed to hear those words,
36:53
Frank. I thought we're going to be OK.
36:55
And you know, it's just so like I feel more hopeful just
36:59
listening to you, Cher, about you and your team going out into
37:03
the field, having these conversations, listening to to
37:07
people doing the work and wanting to then take it to
37:11
another level, right? Another realm of, of impact and
37:14
just knowing that those conversations are happening is
37:19
itself a sign of hope. You know, maybe we, we, maybe
37:23
I'm speaking for myself, we can overcomplicate what, what it,
37:27
what that means, not just the hope side of it, but also the
37:29
joy side of it and being like, is this really moving the needle
37:33
in some direction? I often find myself at a loss to
37:37
quantify something like like that in terms of like, it's a
37:40
progress meter of like we'll finally hit a certain threshold.
37:44
But I do think that, you know, the more and more we can kind
37:47
of, you know, connect with individuals who are passionate
37:51
with individuals and communities who are striving towards a more
37:56
peaceful, more harmonious environment, We'll, we'll start
37:59
to see this larger change later down the line.
38:03
I, I find that, you know, it's, it's one thing like to like
38:06
really understand the current society.
38:09
And of course, it's, it's all too easy to identify the bad or,
38:13
you know, like this is broken or this needs to be addressed and
38:17
fixed and all this stuff. But I think, you know, a lot of
38:21
the work that I find myself doing and also what attracted me
38:24
to a place like Huggsy was this other realm of like kind of
38:29
higher ideals of like this is where we need to get to.
38:32
And from what I understand, like from what you've shared
38:35
education is, is that bridge? Is that that vital piece that we
38:39
need or like that engine to to help us really imagine new new
38:44
possibilities like right new futures would would you agree in
38:48
terms of education role and that?
38:50
You said it beautifully. It is it is vital.
38:54
It is I think it is the main tool that'll continue moving us
38:58
in the right direction. And I think like one thing I
39:02
wanted to highlight that you said that I think it's so easy
39:05
to lean into the negative sound bites.
39:07
Yes, we don't want to minimize the the some of the horrible
39:12
policies or horrible things that are occurring, but we there's a
39:17
lot of great things that are happening.
39:18
And I think the negative tends to take most of most of the
39:24
dominate most of the conversation when we also need
39:27
to start leaning into some of the one of the great things that
39:30
are happening across the country, but around around the
39:32
globe, not only in the field of education but in other sectors
39:35
as well. I totally agree.
39:38
And, you know, I just really like hearing more of your story,
39:42
Frank, and just feeling your passion for the work that you're
39:46
doing. It just it gives me a lot of
39:47
hope that, you know, Huggsy will continue to admit students who
39:53
have this passion and this this vision of global citizenship to
39:57
make positive impact. And that you know they will
40:00
thoroughly enjoy their time at Huggsy and then go out into the
40:04
world and do even more. Incredible work and I'm just,
40:08
I'm really happy that we have this opportunity to, to speak
40:11
more about the, the role of education, college access.
40:14
And just I think again, like this larger conversation around
40:18
like what is passion and how do we affect positive change in our
40:21
community? I think this is important
40:23
conversation that we need to be having in the times that we're
40:25
living in. So I just have one more question
40:27
to ask you. Any book recommendations, movie
40:30
recommendations, or just generally what would you like to
40:33
share with the listeners? Well, first, Scott, thank you
40:35
for having this conversation. I think you're doing such
40:38
amazing work and like really making sure that folks are
40:40
hearing some of the stuff that's going on.
40:42
So appreciate that reading. A couple of things, One that I
40:46
would recommend that I'm currently reading is educated by
40:49
Tara Westover. So that's educated by Tara
40:52
Westover and I think it's it's a read about not only a woman's
40:58
journey or the struggles through navigating and fighting her way
41:01
through higher education, but if you take a step back and from a
41:06
through a wider lens, it's really about how she navigated
41:09
different systems. Like we're talking about
41:12
geography, ideology, family access, and these are all topics
41:16
that transcend zip code country. So I would recommend that book.
41:23
I'm I'm I'm enjoying it quite a bit.
41:25
It was recommended to me by a colleague.
41:29
Thank you so much for that, that book recommendation.
41:31
I'll definitely check it out myself.
41:33
And just wanted to give you the last word.
41:35
So any final thoughts or send offs as we wrap up this
41:38
wonderful conversation? Yes, I just want to say that
41:45
colleges and universities across the country are doing some great
41:47
work. I do feel that education
41:50
personally is under attack, but I think there's a lot of great
41:55
voices out there to show the meaningful work that the
41:59
education field and educators are doing on a daily basis.
42:03
And I'm just excited for opportunities like this to
42:06
elevate the great work that's going on by many folks, not only
42:09
across the country, but globally as we continue to make education
42:14
accessible for all. Like I said earlier, I think
42:17
it's a pub, not only a public good, but I think it's a human
42:20
right because it's the foundation for everything.
42:22
And like you said, it's that bridge to like, it's that bridge
42:26
to Joey, let's call it. Thank you, Scott.
43:06
Music.