Latest / What’s Up, Wake / Discovering the Hidden History of Cary with Dr. Katherine Loflin
Transcript
- 32 - What's Up Wake - Katherine Loflin === [00:00:00] Melissa: All right. Students take out your notebooks and pencils. It's time for history class. Did you know that the founder of the town of Cary intended for there to be a ban on alcohol for 1000 years? Spoiler alert, that ban lasted less than a century. Did you know that C is the gourd capital of the world? Yes. You heard it. Gord And the home of our [00:01:00] state's, first high school. How about this one? Did you know that it's believed that a legit pirate's treasure is hidden somewhere in town? I, for one, knew none of these historical facts about Carrie, but my guest today could teach the class. She's known as the city doctor. She's been a Ted Talk speaker and she's quite literally written the book on the history of one of America's best towns with her latest publication, hidden History of Kerry on Bookshelves Now. Please welcome the town of Kerry Ambassador for history, Dr. Catherine Laughlin. Hi, Catherine. Hi. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thank you for coming today. Sure. I'm excited to learn some history about Carrie. Can you start out by telling us your history with Carrie? Dr. Katherine Loflin: You're a native, right? Oh, gosh. Well, I'm a North Carolina native. In fact, I am so much a North Carolina native that. My direct family line leads back to one of the founding families of North Carolina. So I [00:02:00] literally have North Carolina in my blood. Okay. , I grew up in Jamestown, which is right outside of High Point, and I moved down to this area in 1989 to go to NC State. The pack and stayed here for graduate school at Carolina. Oh, I'm sorry. We'll, we'll, we'll skip right Melissa: over Dr. Katherine Loflin: that. Okay. Okay. And, uh, and, and except for 10 years that I was away in Miami, Florida, I was recruited outta graduate school to work for a foundation. I, I have been here, raised my daughter here. And I mean, love care. Of course. Melissa: I want to know why you are known as the city doctor. I know that you talk about the science of connecting people to where they live. Mm-hmm. How does that tie in with the moniker city doctor? Well, Dr. Katherine Loflin: you know, my daughter, who's now a freshman in college, named me that when she was two. So I get my marketing advice sweet. From my daughter. Yes. I was getting ready to leave her and her [00:03:00] grandmother was gonna come take care of her, and I was explaining to her at dinner that mommy's going outta town. She asked me, she goes, well, I know you, you're a doctor and why do you go visit so many cities? And I said, well, I help them understand how well they're doing and making fe people feel like they belong and how well they're doing, managing their money and all the things that adults have to do, cities have to do too. And so I help them sort of diagnose what's going right and what's going wrong, and I try to help them. And she goes, oh, so you're a city doctor. Nice. I love that. That's the end of the story. Melissa: That is great. I mean, hey, she should get a little cut 'cause that's a, that's a great name. Oh, she's got the cut. Yeah, she's me. Cut. Alright. I've got teenagers too. They are, uh, they're not cheap. No, Dr. Katherine Loflin: no. Melissa: You talk about something called Place attachment. Mm-hmm. Can you tell us what that means? Dr. Katherine Loflin: Yeah. It is the emotional connection that people have with where they live. It is [00:04:00] very similar to the emotional love we feel for families, spouses, sometimes even children, where the place you live becomes part of your family. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And when you start to feel that way about the place you live, you start to behave differently in it. That not only benefits you, but benefits the place. Yeah. And so I did some groundbreaking research of 26 cities in the country over three years to learn. What makes people grow those feelings about a place so that places could better understand how to present themselves and develop in a way that would trigger that emotional attachment, because it would serve them through economic development. But like I said, it also creates quality of life and a sense of belonging and behaviors that we want out of our residents as well. Melissa: If you're, if you're proud of where you live and you love where you live, you're certainly gonna treat it differently. That's right. What would you say that [00:05:00] people. Your research has brought to you with Carrie in terms of Carrie and Place attachment? Dr. Katherine Loflin: Well, it, it's an interesting thing because the history I started with Carrie only began maybe four years ago. I, with COVID really? I was, I couldn't travel anymore, uh, around the world and work with places I couldn't be on airplanes and, and the connection to Carrie, I didn't see at the beginning because we know what makes people love where they live is social offerings. Aesthetics and a sense of belonging. Mm-hmm. Openness. That whoever you are, you feel comfortable in your skin in that place. And I had always looked at Carrie and thought, well, they, they do pretty good on those things. But when I started doing the history work, I realized that nothing can combine those three things better. Than a well done historical production about the story of a place. It triggers all of these emotions mm-hmm. That we want in in [00:06:00] place attachment. And on top of that I have never seen any initiative, and I'd hate for all my other clients to hear me say this, that we've done in places around the world that grows attachment quicker and more economically. Then telling the story of the history of that place. Mm-hmm. In the right way. So that's where the carry connection came, where I was like, you know, we could be doing more about telling our story. And now that I know it matters so much for growing that love of place, this is something I can step in and, and fill the gap. Melissa: Yeah. Well, and I think I, I'm a Raleigh native, and I, I talk about that a lot. But I think in terms of. Coming from Raleigh, what I've always thought about Carry, it's more along the lines of that's where I, BM is, that's where SAS is. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, Umstead. Mm-hmm. It was just, it was particular businesses. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily a feeling. Right. Right. So history will tie [00:07:00] in the feelings along with. With everything else. That is great about the town is what you're saying. Absolutely. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Absolutely. And I think, you know, one of the things that I have pushed. In my history, I even teach a class called you know, discover Carry. A lot happened before IBM showed up. Mm-hmm. Just to, 'cause I specialize in the time before IBM 'cause I'm on a personal mission for people to know the incredible history we have in Carry. That came way before the things that we're most known for. So, I, I wanna change that a little bit. At least equal it out. Melissa: Let's dive into some of that history because when I, I was researching our chat today. I went through your book, hidden History of Carrie, and there, there are a lot of fascinating things, but a few things stood out to me that I would love for you to dive into a little bit. One is the importance of the railroad mm-hmm. With Carrie's history. Dr. Katherine Loflin: [00:08:00] Yes. I mean, our founder, Frank Page, chose this area. He was a very entrepreneurial man. , He chose this area to develop Carrie because he saw the railroad coming in. Back in that time, you know, the 1850s where railroads go, you know, commerce Follows. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And so it was one of the main reasons why he came here. That railroad, where our train station is, is a historic line. It's been here since before the Civil War. And that same, yes, that same track has been here? Yes. Wow. Yes. So it's the same area. Yes. We, okay. We have recovered railroad spike pieces and full, full spikes that the historians at the state think. Original Wow. To the 1850s. Okay. So they've been repaired of course through the year. I would hope so, yes. Don't worry. Amtrak is fine. But yes, it's the [00:09:00] original, it is the original track. Mm-hmm. Both of them that run through there. And so Frank really thought that if he could establish a place here, 'cause we were the place in between Raleigh and Points West, he could really make something of this place. And so, that's one of the reasons why he chose the area. He built his homestead on where our town hall is today. Mm-hmm. Just right at the railroad tracks for that very reason. But he ran into some challenges, um, because shortly after he came, the civil War started happening. Melissa: Mm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And the only time the train would stop and carry would be to offload a deceased soldier that lived in this area. So the train whistle would only blow when they had a body to offload. Oh. And that would enable the town, which, or a village is all we were really then to know that we have someone for you. And so the sound of the train whistle shortly after Frank moved here, [00:10:00] only caused trauma. To the town. Wow. Melissa: Yeah. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And everybody would rush to that site to, to meet the train. And Frank would help offload the coffin and he would read the name off the coffin. And that is how everybody knew at once. Who lost their husband, brother, or son in front of everyone else. And it would be, the soldier would be from the Kerry area? Yes. And that's why they were coming. It would be one of our boys. Wow. Yes. Wow. And that would be the only reason why they would stop here. 'cause there was nothing else. Yeah. So, you know, I'm sure that did become a sign of trauma, the sound of the train, the sound. Wow. The sound. And so after the war was over, Frank had a lot of work in what we would call these days, rebranding. The train. Mm-hmm. And, and because what we had was a village of people who every time heard a whistle fell to their knees crying. Literally. Melissa: I'm surprised they didn't have to change the, the sound of the train whistle into, you know, oga. Dr. Katherine Loflin: They, they probably would've if they could have. But yeah, so that start, that's how it started.[00:11:00] Uh, and then Frank just worked it until, mm-hmm. He. Made the association with the train a positive one. Okay. For the economy to grow here. And he did a few things for that. But we do have a very long, I, I'm doing a tour in October called When the Whistle Blows. Mm-hmm. And it's just about the local historical events like the one I just mentioned. We reenact that moment. And other significant history that happened along the train line using, um, my actors who reenact those moments in history. Melissa: That's actually a perfect segue because I, I wanted to talk to you about the, the tours that you host. You add theatrical flair. Mm-hmm. Tell us about the tours. And the, the actors and every costumes and everything that goes into the tours that you give? Dr. Katherine Loflin: Well, I, it's really important to me. I have a background in entertainment. I was a a b, C executive producer for, for a couple of years. And I've been in theater and, and written [00:12:00] plays and done some of that stuff before. But I knew that if I started the C Doctor Productions, which is the production company that sort of feeds off all of this work. I wanted to do something different. Mm-hmm. And so everything about the way I do productions is different, I would say, than any other history tour you will ever get on. I'm not much for timelines. I think dates are great as bookends, but the stories of the people and the events is what makes you remember. And wanna tell your neighbor the next time you see them. Melissa: Yeah. Or Dr. Katherine Loflin: the kind of roof we have. I mean, I'm vice chair of the Historic Preservation Commission and Carrie, those things are really important, but when you are trying to attach people and you're trying to make them fall in love with where they live, the kind of roof it has might not be the thing that'll do it. Mm-hmm. The stories, right. So I went about in writing these things to focus on the people and the places and the events. [00:13:00] The other thing that I did differently was I didn't go to talent agencies. My cast is gonna kill me. I didn't go to talent agencies to find my actors. I didn't recruit them from the theater world. I recruited them locally. And so a lot of the people, they're all cites. Mm-hmm. And they all have some sort of significant tie to Carrie. Sometimes they are playing the descendant of the person that they're portraying. Oh, Melissa: that's neat. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And you cannot get a more dedicated actor. Mm-hmm. I can teach acting, I can get you through the scene and you'll be fine. Mm-hmm. But I can't replace you being the great-granddaughter of the woman you're portraying. Definitely not. I mean, that is, that is chill bumps, really. Yeah. Yeah. And the audience, I always share that. And then they get to meet, Melissa: you Dr. Katherine Loflin: know, it all connects. I, I recruit our mayor, he plays our, our founder a lot. Okay. He loves Melissa: it. And are these. Productions in a theater, or are these walking around the town? Dr. Katherine Loflin: They're walking around the town? We [00:14:00] do, I believe, again, again, the way I do things differently is I don't expect you to come into the theater because a lot of people think a theater show is going to be a certain kind of way, especially if it's in the theater. We're changing that a little bit, but I wanna go where the people are. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And I wanna take you to the spot it happened. Mm-hmm. My history research enables me to put us in the place it happened. . And replay it. And it's, it's completely powerful, I think for people to understand, oh, you're standing on a, a union soldier encampment right here. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And they don't know until after we get through the scene. And then you can see them just sort of. Eyes wide mm-hmm. When it connects. So, yeah. But we do productions, we do normal walking tours that don't have actors. We do historical gaming. We do historical fiction, murder mystery shows. We do all sorts of things. I, I read about Melissa: the murder mystery shows. I really would love to go to one of those. That's so Dr. Katherine Loflin: fun. Yeah. I think they're the [00:15:00] favorites of, of maybe what we do. 'cause we do it usually in January and February when there's not as much. You know hoo-ha and stuff going on. Yeah, it's plus and we usually do 'em at the Matthews house, which is the clue House. If you have ever been in there, it sets itself up perfectly. [00:16:00] Melissa: And are there certain murders and mysteries that, that are particularly, you know, carry. Related that you, that you focus on, and how do you do that? Dr. Katherine Loflin: My publisher wants the next book to be Murder in Mayhem and Carrie, which I'm not sure I can, I, I don't know if I wanna do that. But in the, in the murder mysteries, we focus on historically fiction murders. Mm-hmm. I don't want to, I wanna be respectful. Of families and descendants and stuff that we still have living here. Uh, so we talk, it's called prohibition, can be Murder, and it's about this, the carry history of being a prohibition town. And at the Matthews House, this [00:17:00] bootlegger lives and he throws these parties, and at these parties things go wrong. That's how I handle that. But in the tours and in the productions, we do address unsolved murders mm-hmm. That we have and carry. One that happened actually along our train line, which got national attention as a matter of fact and, and other deaths, natural and otherwise, that we really have right in the heart of Carrie. That really is not what you normally hear about with Carrie. Melissa: Let's get back to the prohibition topic. Carrie started out as a dry town mm-hmm. With the intention that it stay that way. Why did it start out with Prohibition and how, how did things change over the years and decades? That's Dr. Katherine Loflin: a great question. So, Frank Paige, our founder, believed in five things, and pretty much in this order, God, family, education, [00:18:00] entrepreneurship, and alcohol is the devil. That was his life, um, in a nutshell. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And so his intention with Carrie was always to fi to incorporate us as a dry town, to show other towns that there could be such a place. So it was very intentional on his part. Um, and what year was this? This was 1871. Okay. So this was even before prohibition and Temperance hit. Mm-hmm. Its high note in the twenties and all of that. And so he was a huge fan of Samuel Fenton Carey, who was a leading prohibitionist speaker at the time from Ohio. So he was a Yankee on top of everything else. And, uh, is that where Carrie gets his name? And that's where Carrie 'cause Frank to submit this prohibition stance. Um, unnamed us after the strongest prohibition leader of his time, not himself. Mm. But interesting Carrie. And, and we, [00:19:00] it's in our incorporation papers. He said there, there won't be buying, selling, drinking alcohol bars. He calls 'em tippling houses, which is hilarious. In carry or within two miles thereof. I mean, he was pretty serious about this and. And, uh, we did have some moonshine incidents, not under Frank's watch, I assure you. But, uh, later on down the line, we did. And finally, in 1964, I mean, North Carolina and Wake County had had legalized alcohol, but Carrie had quietly still been denying permits. And so we were still dry and in 1964, a gentleman wanted to sell beer and wine at his convenience store, and he was turned down by town counsel and he went to the Attorney General of North Carolina and said, oh, we can't, how can they do this? Mm-hmm. And the Attorney General said they can't. So the only reason we allowed alcohol in 1964 is because we were threatened to be sued by the state. Melissa: Mm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And you [00:20:00] know, Frank did want it to be for a thousand years, but the, the lawyers at the state said, you can't put that in your incorporation documents. You can't for, you know, for the rest of your li for the rest of time. Mm-hmm. Say what a town can be. And so he would just tell people that when he couldn't do it any other way. But it, it took us until 1964 just to get beer and wine. It took another 10 years. For liquor. Melissa: Um, oh, I didn't know that. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Yeah. It took a while. We could only stomach beer and there was people on council, one man in particular who voted against it and he said, I will not vote for the destruction of our town. Melissa: Mm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: By allowing alcohol. But then we got an a, b, C store and nobody would go to it. Mm. Because. The culture was no alcohol. Yeah. So they would all go to the A, b, C store in Morrisville, which is hilarious. Oh. And it took a while. Technically still not buying it in Cary. No, that's right. And they would say it's just for the fruitcake at Christmas. Melissa: Yeah, sure, sure. Right. Yeah, sure. Mm-hmm. Tell us your favorite [00:21:00] Carrie Ghost story. We're getting into fall season and, and we want some ghost stories. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Goodness gracious. Well, there are a couple that have been very active in Carry for generations. One is from the Civil War from the Union encampment that was at our town hall. A young soldier had been wounded very young. I mean, they thought he was maybe 12. He had been wounded in battle and, uh, all the other men in his, in his troop. Was trying to help, you know, save him. And they stopped off at the page house where the encampment was and Mrs. Page looked after him, uh, 'cause she just saw him as a boy and not a union soldier. And he died overnight and they were on their way to their next event. They wanted to lead his horse, the boy's horse who had died to be the front, you know, and that's a way [00:22:00] that they would honor military deaths. They still do that today, the riderless horse. But they couldn't find his horse anywhere. And, uh, they looked everywhere and everywhere until Sherman finally said, sent a message and said, I, I kind of need you guys down here. We need you. So they buried the boys somewhere on that land and, um, made their way over. And then within weeks, people of the village started hearing a horse running through the village, like galloping and, and, and crying and all of that. And they thought, oh, it's that boy's horse. But what's weird about it is that there are newspaper accounts of hearing a horse. In the 1890s, 1900, 19, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, all, all the way up to 1980, uh, there were newspaper accounts of people hearing this horse galloping down Academy Street, the main street, and it sounded like he was galloping [00:23:00] on dirt, although they had long since been paved. So it was eventually thought, well, gosh, it is the same apparition. I mean, it's the same thing. And then, you know, as coincidence would have it, Carrie, the town, started an art installation downtown and they put up a sculpture of a horse that the saddle was cut out of. It looked like a riderless horse. They said it had nothing to do with the ghost story, but when the statue was up, the apparition stopped. Then when they moved the statue, they took the statue down, they came back. So today you can go still find that statue of a horse behind the page, Walker Hotel to keep, I would guess, the apparitions at bay. Melissa: Wow. Dr. Katherine Loflin: So that is one. But it sounds like Melissa: the, the, the ghost horse wasn't hurting anybody. No. I mean, Dr. Katherine Loflin: no, he was just, he, you know, he knew his boy was still buried on that land. He wasn't gonna go without 'em. He hid when they [00:24:00] looked for him and he stayed. But then there's, you know, the ghost of High House, which was an actual house. And that is the basis of one of our hidden treasure stories, although we're pretty sure that that is, is legend, although the family claims otherwise. A ghost that appears in the Black Creek Greenway of that area still today, who was killed by two men who were fighting over her. Uh, and got in the middle and tried to break 'em up and ended up getting killed in that, and she appeared for three generations of the Williams family who lived in high house to the point that one generation left in the middle of the night and moved to Raleigh. And said, I, you know, I can't, you know, I grew up with this ghost. I can't. His kids saw it and he was like, that's it. I can't take this anymore. Uh, but after he left, he had a dream about a hidden treasure buried under the hearth of their house that they buried there to hide from civil war [00:25:00] soldiers. So the next morning he goes to his mother's house and he says. Uh, a knocks on the door and she opens the door and he opens the door, and about at the same time, they said, I had the craziest dream last night. So they had both had the same dream about the treasure and they went out there and they found the hearth of the house still there, but it had been recently picked apart, brick by brick, and there was a hole, uh oh. So it looked like they'd missed it just by a little. But that, that, and maybe it's still there, but Kerry, I still tried to dig it all up, but it could be still there. But the lady and why it still appears. Out there. Melissa: Ah. Dr. Katherine Loflin: So we turned and other houses tried to build there and tragic things kept happening. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: So unrelated, I assume the town bought the land. Okay. And, uh, turn it into a greenway. Melissa: Oh, okay. Okay. I wonder if she's seen on the greenway. Dr. Katherine Loflin: You know, if you've walked on it, there is a, I, you know, [00:26:00] I do parent, I have a paranormal team as well. Mm-hmm. That we do live paranormal investigations on these tours sometimes. And, uh, there is, there's something else there feels a little eerie. It feels the feelings are completely different. Mm-hmm. And sometimes you'll go and not feel that, and other times it's just overwhelming, uh, the feelings on that place. Interesting. A lot of crazy things went down on that land. Melissa: Let's talk about another treasure. What is this? I'm hearing about a potential gold de bloom. Yes. Treasure, right and carry. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Yes. Not a Disney show either. So there's a man in the country called the Treasure Man. And he's a very wealthy individual that has accumulated over the years historic gold, historic bullon, historic jewels, and he has buried a treasure in every state in this country. His whole thing is, is if you find it, you [00:27:00] keep it. Melissa: Mm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And he creates a historical story around it. It's usually something that, it's a true historical story, but it may or may not have actual connection to the actual treasure. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: But he needs a way to get you started basically. And the one in North, and some have been found, there's a website where you can go and people will say, found this is what it was. And they are unbelievable. Treasures. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: So the one in North Carolina is based on Theodocia Burr, who was a historical figure. Uh, we all know about Mr. Burr and Mr. Hamilton. Well, Mr. Burr Theodocia was his daughter and she was, the story is she was traveling up to see her father in New England. Her boat was either captured by pirates or just sunk, and the treasure was recovered and buried somewhere in North Carolina. So that's the setup story, and there are so [00:28:00] many people who have investigated the finding of this treasure. I had someone contact me anonymously and say, I've been working on this for years. And, uh, I've spent a lot of money. I've had maps drafted. I've overlaid with other maps, I've followed the story, and I, I, you know, I don't live in this area, but I'm telling you it's in Cary. And he's, and they sent me maps that, can you send me that map, Catherine? I can, I mean, I know of someone. Sitting. Oh, she's pointing to Joe over there who's using AI to try to find it. Of course he is. Of course he is. That sounds like a very Joe thing to do. Yes. So I, you know, it's probably, but somewhere in the Swift Creek area. Ah, Melissa: interesting. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Yes. And there are a couple spots that, Joe, have you Melissa: gotten out your metal detector? Dr. Katherine Loflin: No. Melissa: You're, he's gonna own one. He's gonna own one soon. I see Dr. Katherine Loflin: it. I see it in his future. Look how awkward he feels right now. Yeah. [00:29:00] I'm feel bad when I'm rich. Yeah. You're gonna have to share some with Catherine because she, I know's giving you some hints. Know I, yes. And so the book has some hints on that. And of course I say, please don't go, you know, digging up Carrie, you know, the town's gonna kill me. But, um. Yeah, I, I, they think in the Swift Creek area, there's a couple of spots. Joe has a different thought, but the people who contacted me really thought near the Kill Dare Farm Penny Road. Area that drifts into Swift Creek, uh, is, is the spot. So, Melissa: and there's a couple old structures and, you know, little barns and houses and stuff out that way too. Absolutely. Dr. Katherine Loflin: I live on Penny Road, so I I do too. Melissa: I'll have to figure out where you live. Okay. Yes. Well, Dr. Katherine Loflin: I'm, we're in the same area. I'll see at midnight, you see. We'll, we'll be searching for the treasure together. That's right. That'd be a great podcast. Melissa: So, one question I have for you before we end Okay. Is. Let's say someone is visiting Carrie for one day. They have one day. What do you tell them they've got [00:30:00] to do while they're in town? Other than your tours, which I, I wanna go on one of your tours, that's for sure. Oh, that we have the Dr. Katherine Loflin: best time. Mm-hmm. I, you know, I think that if you have kids, you gotta go to the park. It's a very non historical thing for me to say, but while you're there I would really venture on Academy Street because right at the park where we have the Kerry Arts Center. That is the home of the first public high school in North Carolina. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Dr. Katherine Loflin: And you can look at it and go inside it and see, you know, how we started education and carry under Frank in 1870 and how it continued to get us to the top of the heap when it came to public education. North Carolina. There are historic houses all along Academy Street, uh, that have, various stories of history, some may or may not be haunted including Mc Restaurant, our lovely sushi restaurant on the corner. Cotton House has a [00:31:00] tremendous history and probably the best EVP I've ever heard in c came out of, came out of Cotton House during an investigation. , We also have Esther Ivy's house right there. It's the bridal shop, and Esther was one of the. Spring leaders of us being the gourd capital of the world. We have the Pink House, the Vic Victorian structure and, and we have the Matthews House and we have Ashworth, which is coming back. And then if you walk all the way down to Town Hall, uh, you are standing literally in the place where it all started. So there are great restaurants and breweries to Frank's absolute delight. We can even carry alcohol on the street, which. You wanna ask me why it could be haunted? Like there's so much Yeah. He's rolling over in his grave right now. He's just like, what in the world? And, and the fact is, is the story of our founder. He he was the victim by his children of a body snatching after he died. [00:32:00] That takes us into Raleigh. In the Merriman win House actually, which is where he died. Melissa: Wow. Dr. Katherine Loflin: So there's so much. I can't, I can't. Melissa: Yeah. We're gonna need a double episode. We need Yeah, yeah. This is, there's so much we can do the Raleigh Dr. Katherine Loflin: connection. Melissa: 'cause Dr. Katherine Loflin: there's a cute one and Melissa: I love history too. Yeah. Um, I, I just feel like the, the more I'm, I'm with you, the more you know about where you're from, the more you're gonna love it. So That's right. Yeah. And then Dr. Katherine Loflin: that makes you protect it and, and definitely treat it like a member of your family. Yeah, definitely. And that's, that's what we want. Melissa: Tell everybody where we can follow you and how we can learn more about what you're doing in the town of Cary Dr. Katherine Loflin: and where we can find your book. Yes. So the best thing to do for all of those things is to join the city Doctor Productions on Facebook. Everybody who's a member of my group gets early access to tickets and is the first to know about book events, uh, where you can get the book directly from me, which is the only way right now you can get it autographed, however. It is on bookshelves in Barnes and Noble and [00:33:00] Target. You can also buy it on Amazon, and many other actually individual books. Sellers are now carrying it too, and my hope is to have it in stock down at the Kerry Park and maybe a couple of locations down in C as well. It should Melissa: be, Dr. Katherine Loflin: if you Google it, you will, you will find the various places you can buy it from, but the City Doctor productions you message me. It'll be in your hot little hands by this, this evening with my signature on it. So we're all, we're close to selling out of the first printing. Oh, congratulations. So, I'm very excited that people are interested. It's a Melissa: very well done book. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Thank you. Melissa: Lots of amazing pictures. I, you know, of course I flipped through a book and the first thing I'm looking through is the pictures. Yeah. And lots of amazing black and white old Yes. Old timey pictures. I love it. Dr. Katherine Loflin: Well, thank you. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Melissa: Thank you for being here today. I Dr. Katherine Loflin: appreciate having you having me. I hope to come back. Melissa: They, yeah. I wish you will come back. Yes. Okay. Dr. Katherine Loflin: It's a deal. [00:34:00]