Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / MONSTER MARRIAGE: ICY THREATS SURGEON MADE YEARS BEFORE KILLING EX-WIFE & NEW HUBBY , COPS

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MONSTER MARRIAGE: ICY THREATS SURGEON MADE YEARS BEFORE KILLING EX-WIFE & NEW HUBBY , COPS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Monster Marriage, the icy threats.
0:11
Speaker 1: We are learning a vascular surgeon husband made years before,
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Speaker 1: years before, nearly ten years before, he allegedly shoots his
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Speaker 1: ex wife and new dentist's husband dead in their own beds,
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Speaker 1: their children wailing in the background. Now, think about it.
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Speaker 1: How long did those bodies lie? They're going cold in
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Speaker 1: pools of blood with their children sitting there with mommy
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Speaker 1: and daddy dead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:47
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Stone
0:50
Speaker 1: faced and cold blooded. A surgeon in court after his
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Speaker 1: ex wife and her dentist husband both shot dead. He
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Speaker 1: knows exactly what's happening, and not a flicker of emotion
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Speaker 1: on his face, not one ounce, not one drop, one
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Speaker 1: scintilla of remorse. How long did he stalk her? As
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Speaker 1: he gets kicked from one jurisdiction to the next, multiple
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Speaker 1: malepractice and claims against him, He looks at her online.
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Speaker 1: She moved on in a big way. She found true love,
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Speaker 1: gets married to an awesome guy. They have two children.
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Speaker 1: They get married in their home. They post a video
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Speaker 1: of it, and there he is alone, alone and miserable.
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Speaker 1: Now we are learning that she quote just had to
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Speaker 1: get out of that starter marriage. It was just for
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Speaker 1: seven months. It was nearly ten years ago, and he
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Speaker 1: brewed and bubbled and simmered and stewed for nearly ten
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Speaker 1: years till he makes an over three hundred mild trek
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Speaker 1: to sheot her dead in bed with her husband, her
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Speaker 1: children in the room next door. This is what we've learned. Listen.
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Speaker 2: She was terrified because he had threatened her life on multiple.
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Speaker 3: Occasions when they were married.
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Speaker 2: She wasn't shy about talking to people about traumatic experiences
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Speaker 2: that she had with her ex and just how emotionally
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Speaker 2: abusive he was to her.
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Speaker 1: That's my friends at NBC. I'm going to analyze what
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Speaker 1: we are hearing straight out to investigative reporter Susan Hendrix,
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Speaker 1: also an author of Down the Hill, My Descent into
2:39
Speaker 1: the Double Murder in Delphi. Susan on this case from
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Speaker 1: the very beginning, Susan, that is the brother in law
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Speaker 1: speaking out. Quote. She was terrified because he had threatened
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Speaker 1: her life on multiple occasions when they were married, that's
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Speaker 1: nearly ten years ago. She would talk openly to family members.
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Speaker 1: What you make of it?
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Speaker 4: I believe as he said, that she was terrified.
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Speaker 1: And how do I know?
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Speaker 4: Because their social media was private. She was very much
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Speaker 4: kind of on the down low on social media, if
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Speaker 4: you will. I don't think she wanted to make her
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Speaker 4: ex angry. I think because the brother in law also
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Speaker 4: said it changed her as a person. He was that
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Speaker 4: mostly abusive. I think it went on beyond the marriage.
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Speaker 4: I think she was fearful of him clearly, and I
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Speaker 4: think that's why Spencer's dental office knew that something was
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Speaker 4: off that day.
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Speaker 2: If any of us had known that these threats were
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Speaker 2: actually grounded impossibility, we all would have acted differently. Myself
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Speaker 2: and many others were well aware of kind of the
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Speaker 2: negative impact that he had on her. She was willing
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Speaker 2: to do anything to get out of there.
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Speaker 1: From our friends at NBC and GMA. That is the
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Speaker 1: brother in law raw miss speaking out what I could
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Speaker 1: have should have. You know what all survivors do. That
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Speaker 1: isn't that true, Doctor Bethany Marshall. If only we had known,
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Speaker 1: if actually we had known they were grounded in reality,
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Speaker 1: we would have done things differently. But people don't live
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Speaker 1: their lives thinking, oh, he's gonna drive six hours and
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Speaker 1: shoot them in their beds. There's no reason they should
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Speaker 1: have known that he was secretly stalking his ex wife
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Speaker 1: all these years.
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Speaker 5: Bethany, the family perhaps shouldn't have known, but I believe
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Speaker 5: Monique knew if her social media was private, if she
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Speaker 5: talked about the abuse and Nancy. This escalated in just
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Speaker 5: seven months of marriage. You know, stalking behavior can start
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Speaker 5: just after one date. The guy falls in love with
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Speaker 5: you and then believes there's a special relationship when there's none.
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Speaker 5: The girl doesn't return the text or the phone call,
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Speaker 5: and now he's enraged. And so when women leave a relationship,
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Speaker 5: they're at the highest risk for domestic homicide. As you
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Speaker 5: pointed out, she left, she had moved on, and that
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Speaker 5: very act enraged him, and he punished her for this
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Speaker 5: perceived rejection. That's what he did. He mowed her down.
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Speaker 5: But I think she knew.
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Speaker 1: Deep down inside. Or do you think she saw him,
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Speaker 1: or she got a weird text or an email and
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Speaker 1: she goes, oh my stars, that's the key, Or do
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Speaker 1: you think it was just a gut feeling in her
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Speaker 1: bones she knew.
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Speaker 5: I think it was a gut feeling. I treat women
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Speaker 5: who are stalking victims, and often they fall into a depression.
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Speaker 5: They're in a dysphoric state, and they become preoccupied with
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Speaker 5: the offender. They think about them all the time. They
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Speaker 5: look at that out their car windows. They're sitting in
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Speaker 5: a restaurant with a new partner and they see, like
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Speaker 5: say Nicole Brown, they see a car drive by, like
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Speaker 5: a white Tahoe and they think, Oh my God, is
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Speaker 5: that my ex husband. So they live in fear Nancy.
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Speaker 5: It gets into their brains. I bet it was in
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Speaker 5: her brain, in her thought process that she was at risk.
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Speaker 5: It was always there and that's why she was talking
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Speaker 5: about it.
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Speaker 1: As we go to air tonight, extradition delayed. What's going on?
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Speaker 1: Is he some sort of a security threat? Why can't
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Speaker 1: we get him to Home Turf to get this trial
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Speaker 1: ball rolling, get the show on the road. At this time,
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Speaker 1: we know the state is building its case against vascular
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Speaker 1: surgeon doctor McKee. Just think about this guy. He excelled
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Speaker 1: in everything he did. That's his mug shot. He excelled
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Speaker 1: at everything. He played football on a very high level
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Speaker 1: in college. He was Danselous honor student. In undergrad he
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Speaker 1: was a star student in medical school. He went on
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Speaker 1: to become a vascular surgeon. Certified to practice in multiple jurisdictions.
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Speaker 1: Just before Monique and her husband are shot dead, he
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Speaker 1: gets sacked with a malpractice suit, a pretty serious one,
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Speaker 1: and another claim that one patient actually lost his testicle
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Speaker 1: because of McKee, very serious complaints. And then he ghosts everybody.
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Speaker 1: He leaves that jurisdiction and disappears to where even a
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Speaker 1: PI can't find him, and just starts all over again
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Speaker 1: in another jurisdiction. Could he move that surreptitiously? Which leads
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Speaker 1: me to how long had he been surreptitiously stalking Monique?
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Speaker 1: There she is Monique and the first starter husband, Michael McKee,
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Speaker 1: the vascular surgeon, straight out to a real pro joining
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Speaker 1: us tonight, Randy Kessler. You know him well. He is
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Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer, Emory Law School professor, former chair
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Speaker 1: of the ABA Family Law Section, the American Bar Association,
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Speaker 1: author of Divorced, Protect Yourself, your Kids, and Your Future.
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Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, you and I have crossed swords many, many
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Speaker 1: times in court. Kessler, think about it now. I know
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Speaker 1: you would never bring us up in court about your
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Speaker 1: own client, right, but this guy's not your client. Tell
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Speaker 1: me the truth. How long do you think he had
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Speaker 1: been stalking her in person, maybe even watching them put
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Speaker 1: the code into the keypad and goes, oh, that's her
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Speaker 1: father's birthday, or online, watching that wedding video over and
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Speaker 1: over and over, and there he is sitting alone having
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Speaker 1: his TV dinner, looking at her video and her happy life.
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Speaker 1: How long you think he's been stalking Monique?
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Speaker 3: It's one of two dates.
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Speaker 6: It's either the date that the final divorce was granted
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Speaker 6: or the date that the divorce was fouled. This was
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Speaker 6: his first rejection from what we can tell, right, Like
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Speaker 6: you said, who's so successful in everything?
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Speaker 3: I mean, the pinnacle of vascular surge, the football star.
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Speaker 6: Dean's List, married to a beautiful woman and then she
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Speaker 6: rejects him or it doesn't work, and that's you know,
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Speaker 6: that's what divorce is about. People feel like somebody who
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Speaker 6: I thought was the perfect person, who I wanted to
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Speaker 6: be with forever, tells me I'm not good enough. They're
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Speaker 6: rejecting me. It may not be the truth of the matter.
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Speaker 6: That could easily be the perception that might have started.
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Speaker 6: It might have been when he started stalking her. It
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Speaker 6: might have been when it started the trigger for him thinking,
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Speaker 6: how do I rectify this. He obviously couldn't handle it.
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Speaker 6: If this is the guy who did it, And I
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Speaker 6: think that's that's when it started.
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Speaker 1: If you ask me what you did all those years, Kessler,
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Speaker 1: so you think he started stalking behavior all the way
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Speaker 1: back to the time that she left him. And did
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Speaker 1: you know, Kessler, that she on her little money that
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Speaker 1: she was making, very educated. I believe she had a
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Speaker 1: master's degree. Not making a lot of money, but the
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Speaker 1: little bit she made, she paid a private judge to
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Speaker 1: expedite the divorce proceedings is going to lawyer's docket. Just
10:01
Speaker 1: think about where you practice, Fulton Superior. You can wait
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Speaker 1: a year before you can get a divorce on a
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Speaker 1: dock and be heard, you know, actually get a jury
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Speaker 1: trial or a hearing. She paid herself alone to expelite
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Speaker 1: that divorce. And guess what he wanted. I hope you're
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Speaker 1: sitting down. You needed to lay down, because I happened
10:20
Speaker 1: to know you've got a big, beautiful brocade sofa, a
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Speaker 1: plush sofa in your fancy digs at your office. You
10:27
Speaker 1: may needed to lay down on that. Kestler. He asked,
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Speaker 1: demanded that she pay him back for the engagement ring
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Speaker 1: and the wedding band and then he charged her twenty
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Speaker 1: three percent interest on a twelve hundred dollars miscellaneous debt
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Speaker 1: he claimed she owed him. Okay, no wonder she left him.
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Speaker 6: You know, there's a horrible joke about whyse of the
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Speaker 6: divorce so expensive, because it's worth it. It was worth
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Speaker 6: it to her. You know, we have our rich clients
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Speaker 6: pay for private joses all the time to do it, lead,
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Speaker 6: to expedite it, to do it at their own schedule.
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Speaker 6: But yes, sometimes people just went out and a lot
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Speaker 6: of people were commenting in the press and in the
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Speaker 6: news that it was an uncontested it was an amicable divorce.
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Speaker 6: It was amicable just in that it wasn't fought out
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Speaker 6: in court. And that's because somebody, obviously her now wanted out.
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Speaker 6: She even agreed to pay her own lawyer fees. When
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Speaker 6: you have a surgeon on one side, usually the person
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Speaker 6: making all the money is required to pay both side
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Speaker 6: attorneys fees because it's a marital expense, that's marital income.
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Speaker 6: She obviously clearly wanted out. And you know, when did
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Speaker 6: she ever feel safe?
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Speaker 1: And that's the same Look at that picture, Kestler, Do
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Speaker 1: you see that picture right there that I'm showing off
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Speaker 1: her pregnant front of the Christmas tree. How crazy do
11:39
Speaker 1: you think that made that vascular surgeon ex husband there
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Speaker 1: she is pregnant by another man, which, of course you
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Speaker 1: know what that means, they had to have sex. I
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Speaker 1: bet that drove him right over the edge. Kestler.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, but when do you ever feel safe?
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Speaker 6: And that's what tears at me, not just what happened,
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Speaker 6: but all these women out there that have gotten away
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Speaker 6: from somebody like that. She's moved on, she's got children,
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Speaker 6: she's married, she's living in another state.
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Speaker 3: When is enough?
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Speaker 6: When can you look in the rear view mirror and
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Speaker 6: say there's nothing there, It's just shadows and you see
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Speaker 6: cases like this, And there are a lot of people
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Speaker 6: having post traumatic stress disorder just from this story. I'm
12:14
Speaker 6: sure we see women that come back to us and say,
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Speaker 6: I still need to restrain anywhere. I said, but you're divorced. Yes,
12:19
Speaker 6: but he's still calling, he's still coming by. Just a
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Speaker 6: terrible situation, and unfortunately, I don't think this is the
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Speaker 6: only person out there that got this concern.
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Speaker 7: On December thirtieth, twenty twenty five, at approximately ten oh
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Speaker 7: four am, Columbus Police Patrol officers were dispatched to the
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Speaker 7: fourteen hundred block of North Forth Street on a well
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Speaker 7: being check. Officers arrived at scene and located the two
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Speaker 7: adult victims suffering from apparent gunshot wounds. We now know
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Speaker 7: that they were identified as mister Spencer Teppy and missus
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Speaker 7: Monique Teppy. Their two small children were also found in
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Speaker 7: the resident physically unharmed.
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Speaker 1: Straight out the special guests joining us doctor Thomas Cone,
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Speaker 1: chief Medical Examiner, just district to Medical Examiner's office, State
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Speaker 1: of Florida. He is a forensic pathologist, toxicologist, neuropathologist. Doctor Corn,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I want to address
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Speaker 1: what the two children have been through. Guys. I'm going
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Speaker 1: to get to the news as quickly as I can
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Speaker 1: about the fact that his extradition has been delayed. What
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Speaker 1: does it mean. Don't worry. He's not burning up the interstate,
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Speaker 1: the Ohio Turnpike to get back home, because Ohio does
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Speaker 1: have the death penalty. It was hanging, then it went
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Speaker 1: to Old Sparky the electric chair. Now it's needle death
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Speaker 1: by lethal injection. There's a moratorium on right now on
13:39
Speaker 1: the death penalty, but it's not official. It's unofficial. They
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Speaker 1: can't get the correct drugs to perform death by needle,
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Speaker 1: but who knows, Maybe they'll go back to death by
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Speaker 1: firing squad like other jurisdictions have done, or possibly some
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Speaker 1: sort of nitrous oxide that's on the table as well.
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Speaker 1: That's a whole other can of worms, Doctor Thomas Coin,
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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the two children.
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Speaker 1: They're both under four years old. They were heard in
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Speaker 1: the background. If I could get the control room to
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Speaker 1: pull up the nine to one one call where you
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Speaker 1: can hear the children screaming, wailing in the background, Doctor Coin,
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Speaker 1: What would the children have seen, because we know that
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Speaker 1: the husband was shot twice, Monique was shot once, and
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Speaker 1: they have placed the shootings after three am, and cops
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Speaker 1: didn't break in well actually friends had to get in
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Speaker 1: the home until hours and hours later, well after nine am.
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Speaker 1: Would the blood have coagulated? Would the bodies have gotten cold,
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Speaker 1: because I believe the children were in there with their parents'
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Speaker 1: dead bodies.
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Speaker 8: Horrible, horrible, Yeah, I mean I remember one just coming
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Speaker 8: upon the bodies, and depending upon where they were shot,
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Speaker 8: it would have been a considerable amount of bleeding, especially
15:01
Speaker 8: even from a head wound or a wound to the chest,
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Speaker 8: and so their clothing may have been soaked in blood
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Speaker 8: where they were lying. For instance, if they were in
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Speaker 8: the bedroom, the bed sheets may have been soaked in blood.
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Speaker 8: And depending upon where they were shot, you know, if
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Speaker 8: it was an angled shot that sort of hit the head,
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Speaker 8: there could have been a tearing of the scalp tissues.
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Speaker 8: So it could have been quite horrific and gruesome for
15:22
Speaker 8: the children to see their parents in that state.
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Speaker 1: Tell me about what you would expect to see around
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Speaker 1: a scene where the husband had been shot twice in
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Speaker 1: the chest with a nine millimeter and the wife shot once,
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Speaker 1: we also believe in the chest. Would there have been
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Speaker 1: well we also known another fact when the friend came
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Speaker 1: in and saw the dentist's dead body. He said he
15:50
Speaker 1: was half on, half off the bed or beside the bed.
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Speaker 1: Would that blood have already coagulated in say, six hours?
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Speaker 1: Would the bodies already be cold? It's freezing cold outside
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Speaker 1: and snowing, But the ambiance temperature in the room probably
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Speaker 1: sixty eight, sixty nine or seventy.
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Speaker 8: The bodies would have started I mean, had they been
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Speaker 8: shot hours prior, the body temperature would have started to
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Speaker 8: acclimate towards that of the home, and they certainly would
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Speaker 8: have probably still had some rigor present in the body,
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Speaker 8: a little stiff.
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Speaker 3: The blood would have.
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Speaker 1: Slowed down, settled, slowdown, doctor Coin rigor gimman. When the
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Speaker 1: children come upon their mom and they try to touch
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Speaker 1: her or hold her, she's already in rigor mortis.
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Speaker 8: Yes, so her her body would have been stiffed, that cold,
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Speaker 8: and probably stiff to touch her arms and her legs
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Speaker 8: may have been rigid. And there probably was also libra mortis,
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Speaker 8: which is the settling of the blood based upon graphic
16:51
Speaker 8: so you'll see pinkish or purple discoloration of the body
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Speaker 8: on the bottom where it's lying, and so they probably
17:00
Speaker 8: would have encountered that upon seeing the the two victims.
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Speaker 3: Of the blood.
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Speaker 8: Also, yeah, I would have started to coagulate. If it
17:07
Speaker 8: sits for quite a long period of time, you can
17:09
Speaker 8: also see separation of the of the cellular component from
17:12
Speaker 8: the liquid component, so we called serum. So you may
17:16
Speaker 8: see a little separation of that as well. But if
17:19
Speaker 8: it's soaked into the bed sheets, it would have just
17:22
Speaker 8: looked all red.
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Speaker 1: Just thinking about what those children saw and experienced. When
17:28
Speaker 1: you say both mom and dad would be in full rigor.
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Speaker 1: Unless you've seen it, it's hard to explain the only
17:37
Speaker 1: way I've explained it to a jury is that you
17:41
Speaker 1: know two by four right, You've been around lumber, right, doctor, Okay, Absolutely,
17:47
Speaker 1: it's just like that. If you try to touch the mom,
17:52
Speaker 1: her arm is like a two by four, it's that hard.
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Speaker 1: It's that stiff, that stiff.
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Speaker 3: And you can't bend it. You know, it's almost immobile.
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Speaker 8: And so for the child who is going up to
18:05
Speaker 8: their parents hoping to feel a warm body, it would
18:08
Speaker 8: probably feel horrible. I mean, just just cold and very stiff,
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Speaker 8: non responsible, you.
18:15
Speaker 1: Know, doctor Bethany, I don't know how a child, you know,
18:19
Speaker 1: two children under the age of four, what they thought
18:23
Speaker 1: they were seeing. But I can tell you this, I
18:26
Speaker 1: don't care what all the shrinks say. Children remember long
18:30
Speaker 1: before three years old. I have memories as early as
18:33
Speaker 1: two years old that I can identify. I think my
18:37
Speaker 1: daughter has memories before that. How will they remember that?
18:44
Speaker 1: Will they suppress it? Will it come back in dreams?
18:48
Speaker 1: Will it affect their personalities for the rest of their lives.
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Speaker 5: It'll come back in so many forms, Nancy. It could
18:55
Speaker 5: come back as I've said before at a pre conscious,
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Speaker 5: pre verbal level, meaning they have the sensation of seeing
19:01
Speaker 5: a traumatic scene, but they can't really put it into words.
19:04
Speaker 5: They could be walking down the street someday and see
19:07
Speaker 5: somebody walk in front of a car and have a
19:10
Speaker 5: flashback and think, oh my god, that car is going
19:12
Speaker 5: to hit that person. They could become people who refuse
19:17
Speaker 5: to form attachments because this premature loss of the parent
19:21
Speaker 5: makes them too terrified of abandonment. It's going to affect
19:25
Speaker 5: them on all levels. Nance it could predispose them to
19:28
Speaker 5: personality disorders, to drug abuse, to alcoholism. This will have
19:32
Speaker 5: a traumatic traumatic effect. The best thing that can happen
19:35
Speaker 5: for these children is to go into a new family
19:39
Speaker 5: where there are predictable and safe attachment systems so they
19:44
Speaker 5: can relatives.
19:45
Speaker 1: Now, Dr Bethty, that's.
19:47
Speaker 5: Good to their relatives.
19:49
Speaker 1: I think the dog is a is a golden doodle
19:52
Speaker 1: and it is also with the children crime stories with
20:01
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Hey, doctor Coin, let me ask you a question.
20:08
Speaker 1: I was thinking about what the children would have experienced
20:10
Speaker 1: and I was out jogging the other night and I
20:14
Speaker 1: smelled a smell and it immediately made me think of
20:17
Speaker 1: my grandmother Lucy that helped raise me. It was kind
20:20
Speaker 1: of a fresh like a cucumber, not quite a cucumber,
20:24
Speaker 1: but something like that. And I don't know what it is.
20:26
Speaker 1: I've tried to identify. When I do smell it, where
20:29
Speaker 1: is that coming from? It must be some kind of
20:30
Speaker 1: a plant. But I immediately think of her because she
20:33
Speaker 1: smelled that kind of a fresh smell, Doctor Coin, Why
20:38
Speaker 1: does blood smell?
20:42
Speaker 8: You know, some people say it's got a metallic smell
20:45
Speaker 8: to it, almost like iron. It's biological, so there are
20:49
Speaker 8: a number of different biological compounds that we produce that
20:51
Speaker 8: may be present blood at any given time, you know,
20:54
Speaker 8: from ammonia type, you know, chemicals just to the you know,
21:00
Speaker 8: mineral component of blood as well. But there is a
21:03
Speaker 8: definite unique smell to blood. It doesn't vaporize, let's say,
21:07
Speaker 8: like human tissue. As our fatty tissue begins to break down,
21:12
Speaker 8: it aromatized. Is this sort of putrid chemical smell that
21:16
Speaker 8: is quite unique, you know, human death compared to animal death.
21:20
Speaker 8: But blood does have a pretty unique smell that I
21:23
Speaker 8: think most of us can recognize.
21:25
Speaker 1: Kessler, I know that you specialize in domestic relations. That's
21:30
Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig. Divorce, nasty divorce, the
21:33
Speaker 1: worst divorce, the most expensive divorce. You got to get Kessler.
21:37
Speaker 1: But you have also handled criminal cases. Have you ever
21:41
Speaker 1: been on a murder scene.
21:45
Speaker 3: No, I've never had the misfortune to go. And I'm
21:49
Speaker 3: glad we bring in criminals.
21:51
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad because that smell is something you never forget,
21:58
Speaker 1: the smell of a decomposing body or the smell of
22:00
Speaker 1: blood coagulating. I'm glad. I'm happy for you. But okay,
22:04
Speaker 1: since that's a note for me, let me go to Bethany. Bethany.
22:08
Speaker 1: Just like the other night, when I was jogging and
22:09
Speaker 1: I smell that fresh plant smell, I thought of my grandmother.
22:14
Speaker 1: I was thinking about something completely different, and then I'm
22:18
Speaker 1: just thinking about these children going through life. And then
22:21
Speaker 1: they smell a smell and it smells. Oh, here's another one.
22:25
Speaker 1: I can't stand to smell chrysanthemums because when I walked
22:29
Speaker 1: into my fiance's funeral, it was like a hit me
22:32
Speaker 1: in the face. I hate that smell. I'm just wondering.
22:37
Speaker 1: There's just so many things that affect these children's memory.
22:41
Speaker 1: It can be a smell, it can be a moment.
22:43
Speaker 1: It can be a feeling, it can be anything that's
22:47
Speaker 1: going to trigger this for them the rest of their lives.
22:51
Speaker 5: Nancy, it's called evocative memory. Let's see you go on
22:54
Speaker 5: a trip and you take a certain kind of perfume
22:56
Speaker 5: or product on the trip, and then years later you
23:00
Speaker 5: pull that product out of a drawer and you smell it.
23:02
Speaker 5: You will think about that trip. So anything those children
23:06
Speaker 5: sawce smelled, felt in that room, it's going to be evoked.
23:11
Speaker 5: So let's say they can see the color red. Let's
23:14
Speaker 5: say they're watching a movie, and we know that there
23:18
Speaker 5: is violence in all movies unless it's a comedy. They
23:21
Speaker 5: will see maybe the sight of blood or somebody being killed,
23:25
Speaker 5: or child looking at a parent. That evocative memory is
23:28
Speaker 5: going to be triggered. And then you combine that with PTSD,
23:32
Speaker 5: one of the symptoms of which is flashbacks. A flashback
23:37
Speaker 5: is when you're in a similar situation to the earlier
23:40
Speaker 5: trauma and your brain tells you that you're in the
23:43
Speaker 5: exact same situation.
23:46
Speaker 1: Again.
23:47
Speaker 5: Let's say you're in the war, you are in the
23:50
Speaker 5: middle of an explosion and an ied goes off. Years later,
23:54
Speaker 5: you're walking down the street in the car backfires. All
23:57
Speaker 5: of a sudden, you feel you're in the war again.
24:00
Speaker 5: So these kids are going to be exposed to similar
24:03
Speaker 5: flashbacks and evocative memory throughout the rest of their lives.
24:07
Speaker 9: What's changed since the last person I talked to?
24:10
Speaker 10: There's a body.
24:11
Speaker 11: There's a body inside.
24:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, hold on one second.
24:18
Speaker 9: Let me get you on the line with the medic.
24:19
Speaker 1: Okay, on the line.
24:22
Speaker 10: Appear's dead.
24:26
Speaker 7: Multiple weapons were taken from the property of McKee, and
24:32
Speaker 7: there's a preliminary link from our NIVEN to one of
24:36
Speaker 7: the weapons that ties it to the homicide.
24:40
Speaker 12: Local and Columbus police in and out of McKee's twelfth
24:43
Speaker 12: floor Chicago apartment with boxes of potential evidence, lugging it
24:47
Speaker 12: down to a Columbus PD crime lab van in the
24:50
Speaker 12: underground garage. Residents receive a notice authorities will be investigating
24:55
Speaker 12: over several days and they shouldn't be concerned by the
24:58
Speaker 12: officer posted outside mcke's door. Preliminary testing leads them to
25:02
Speaker 12: believe one of those weapons is connected to the tepe's murders.
25:06
Speaker 5: Did you find any other evidence in his home in
25:08
Speaker 5: Lincoln Park?
25:09
Speaker 7: What I can tell you is that we did search
25:12
Speaker 7: his property and we have evidence, but I can't speak
25:14
Speaker 7: to any specific evidence.
25:17
Speaker 1: They've got evidence. They were observed lugging box after box
25:20
Speaker 1: after box out of vascular surgeon doctor McKee's penthouse apartment
25:27
Speaker 1: there at Lincoln Park, straight out to a special guest
25:30
Speaker 1: joining us tonight, CoA. Lour Moore, thank you for being
25:33
Speaker 1: with us, former Army sniper sharpshooter. I want to talk
25:37
Speaker 1: to you about the weapons. You just heard Columbus Police
25:41
Speaker 1: Chief Elaine Bryant state that there is a preliminary match
25:45
Speaker 1: from evidence found in the home. I ate the gun.
25:49
Speaker 1: I don't know where they found it in the home,
25:52
Speaker 1: in the car, doesn't matter for your purposes. But they've
25:54
Speaker 1: got a match to the bullets fired at the scene
25:58
Speaker 1: where they lodged in the body. Did they cachet off
26:00
Speaker 1: the wall, where they stuck in the wall, where they
26:02
Speaker 1: stuck in the matches, where they stuck in the floor,
26:04
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. They're saying they've got a match. Now, Before
26:10
Speaker 1: I get to you about how that match is deduced,
26:14
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about how difficult would
26:18
Speaker 1: it be for the killer to engrave or write on
26:25
Speaker 1: the bullets? Now, you see, I didn't think about that
26:27
Speaker 1: before the devil kicked Luigi Mangioni into my life, who wrote,
26:34
Speaker 1: let's see Deny delay depose. He actually took the time
26:40
Speaker 1: to write that on the bullets that he used to
26:42
Speaker 1: shoot the United Healthcare boss. According to police, then you've
26:48
Speaker 1: got the fiend that shot Charlie Kirk Tyler Robinson. He wrote,
26:53
Speaker 1: hey fascist on the bullet. Okay, they've got way too
26:58
Speaker 1: much spare time for a shrink. CoA, Laura Moore, tell
27:02
Speaker 1: me how would you write something on the bullet?
27:06
Speaker 13: Well, Nancy, you could take a DREML tool and then
27:08
Speaker 13: you take the casing of the bullet like I have
27:11
Speaker 13: right here, and you could basically just engrave whatever you
27:14
Speaker 13: want on that casing. But I think you would have
27:16
Speaker 13: to have a special kind of hatred to go to
27:19
Speaker 13: the lengths of engraving something on that.
27:21
Speaker 1: Agree. Now let me ask you this, CoA. What if
27:27
Speaker 1: we learn the defendant, the surgeon dot McKee, created his
27:31
Speaker 1: own ammunition. Yes, people actually do that. How do you
27:38
Speaker 1: create your own ammunition? And to me, and I'm going
27:42
Speaker 1: to get to Kessler on this, that would leave a
27:44
Speaker 1: trail a mile wide if you created your own bullets.
27:48
Speaker 1: How do you do that?
27:51
Speaker 13: So you need a special machine that they use to
27:54
Speaker 13: create a bullet like this, and then you take all
27:56
Speaker 13: the components. You take the primer on the back, the
27:59
Speaker 13: case obviously, the gunpowder inside, and then the bullet and
28:03
Speaker 13: you press it all together. This is common practice with
28:08
Speaker 13: like precision shooters, people that do it for sport. Pretty
28:12
Speaker 13: uncommon just for your average guy.
28:15
Speaker 1: Okay, there is actually a machine that does it. It's
28:19
Speaker 1: a manual swagging process. And you know the reason I'm
28:24
Speaker 1: asking about this hold on Cole Laura Moore to doctor
28:27
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us out of LA at doctor
28:31
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, he spent practically ten years,
28:38
Speaker 1: eight years plus thinking about her, and something pushed him
28:42
Speaker 1: over the edge. It could have been these lawsuits where
28:45
Speaker 1: one guy lost a testicle and the other had a
28:47
Speaker 1: pete a shard of catheter stuck in his leg which caused,
28:52
Speaker 1: according to him, disfigurement. And then when they tried to
28:55
Speaker 1: sue surgeon doctor McKee, he ghosted everyone and vanished. Even
29:01
Speaker 1: the process server couldn't find him. And you know, they
29:05
Speaker 1: make money when they finally serve you the papers. So
29:07
Speaker 1: he was trying to find him, and he totally disappeared.
29:12
Speaker 1: That said, that could have triggered it. But all these
29:15
Speaker 1: years he has been watching her, and I could just
29:19
Speaker 1: see him hunched over a table with one of these machines,
29:22
Speaker 1: making his own bullets and engraving them out of hatred.
29:27
Speaker 5: You don't, Nancy fifty Almost fifty percent of all stalking
29:30
Speaker 5: happens during the course of a marriage, not necessarily afterwards.
29:34
Speaker 5: So this stalking behavior probably started from the first state,
29:38
Speaker 5: first of all. Secondly, there's going to be a lot
29:40
Speaker 5: of behavioral evidence. He probably made many attempts to contact hers,
29:45
Speaker 5: so there's going to be emails, letters, snail mail. I
29:49
Speaker 5: think we're going to find all sorts of things. And
29:51
Speaker 5: in terms of the risk factors for violence, why now
29:56
Speaker 5: what pushed him over the edge? Usually a demotion in
29:59
Speaker 5: staff and rejection. So the fact that he was potentially
30:03
Speaker 5: had a lawsuit against him made him feel humiliated.
30:07
Speaker 1: At risk of Randy Kesser objection claiming asked an answered,
30:12
Speaker 1: I always love that objection at trial. But let me,
30:16
Speaker 1: instead of asking the same thing, doctor Bethany, refine my question.
30:20
Speaker 1: Let me refine my question. In other words, ask it
30:22
Speaker 1: in another way. Doctor Bethany. You know how stalkers and
30:26
Speaker 1: freaks they get enjoyment from the process of the stalking.
30:32
Speaker 1: I think it makes them feel closer to the target
30:34
Speaker 1: they're victim, Like writing them letters. They take great pains
30:38
Speaker 1: to write the letter and then sneak up and leave
30:41
Speaker 1: it there or mail just they get some enjoyment from that.
30:45
Speaker 1: So what would he have derived from making his own
30:48
Speaker 1: bullets if he did with the diy st What joy
30:52
Speaker 1: would he get from that?
30:53
Speaker 5: Well, think about kill kits when serial killers assemble the
30:58
Speaker 5: kit in preparation for finding victims. The enjoyment he would
31:01
Speaker 5: have gotten is complete and utter power over her, looking
31:06
Speaker 5: at the fear in her eyes, blotting her off the
31:09
Speaker 5: face of the earth, so he doesn't have to think
31:11
Speaker 5: about her anymore, potentially killing her husband in front of
31:16
Speaker 5: her while she's still alive. So he shows her who's
31:21
Speaker 5: really the boss in this situation. And I think, more importantly,
31:25
Speaker 5: a reversal of power. He imagines she has power over
31:29
Speaker 5: him because she's moved on, but he's going to try
31:31
Speaker 5: to assert power over her reverse power dynamic. In my field,
31:36
Speaker 5: we call it triumphing over the love object. He's triumphing
31:40
Speaker 5: over her every time he engraves that bullet.
31:44
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I'm going back to cole Laura Moore right
31:47
Speaker 1: now with bullet questions, but I want you to think
31:50
Speaker 1: about something. You know how people when they're dating, they
31:54
Speaker 1: get ready for the day, Like the woman does her hair,
31:57
Speaker 1: puts on megup. The man goes wash the car this
32:00
Speaker 1: is stereotypical, of course, and gets all ready, maybe buys flowers.
32:04
Speaker 1: It's all in anticipation of those few hours that they
32:07
Speaker 1: have a date. Just imagine him getting the bullets, getting
32:11
Speaker 1: the gun, driving all the way down the Ohio Turnpike,
32:15
Speaker 1: going through the what twenty four tolls to get there,
32:18
Speaker 1: all in anticipation of the moment he pulls the trigger
32:22
Speaker 1: and sees her face and her fear. I want to
32:25
Speaker 1: talk about that process, cole or Moore joining us. Okay,
32:28
Speaker 1: so we've talked about the dye set. It's the machine
32:31
Speaker 1: that is used to create your own bullets. And if
32:33
Speaker 1: he did create his own bullets, there's going to be evidence.
32:37
Speaker 1: There's going to be a dye set, there's going to
32:38
Speaker 1: be the material needed to make the bullet, the outside,
32:42
Speaker 1: the inside. The process requires a lot of let me
32:48
Speaker 1: just say material, But how do you make the comparison.
32:53
Speaker 1: Explain to me how just like that that police chief
32:57
Speaker 1: knows we've got a preliminary match.
33:01
Speaker 13: So there's telltale signs on the casing itself, if left
33:05
Speaker 13: at the scene, Uh, that can be traced back to
33:09
Speaker 13: the weapon. So first you're going to have a primer
33:13
Speaker 13: strike where the bullet is fired right on the primer.
33:16
Speaker 13: Then you're going to have scratches on the casing that
33:20
Speaker 13: match the ejector, and then denser smudges also on the
33:24
Speaker 13: casing itself that match the ejector. Now these are all
33:28
Speaker 13: called tool marks, and they match exactly to the weapon
33:32
Speaker 13: I have here.
33:34
Speaker 10: The body, our our friend wasn't intus phone. We just
33:37
Speaker 10: did a well of shit to just sitting here in
33:40
Speaker 10: he appears said, okay, the other flood she's laying next
33:46
Speaker 10: to his bead off of hiss in there's blood. I
33:49
Speaker 10: think people are too more than that.
33:51
Speaker 2: Okay, they can tell he's opposite up bringing her.
33:55
Speaker 14: Like how to like like.
33:58
Speaker 3: They looks like.
34:01
Speaker 10: I can't. Okay, all right, I understand.
34:06
Speaker 11: A source has come out and stated that doctor Michael
34:09
Speaker 11: McKee right here worked a full shift on Monday, December
34:12
Speaker 11: twenty ninth, twenty twenty five, and then had a cot
34:15
Speaker 11: reserve for him at the hospital to spend the night.
34:17
Speaker 11: This was the evening before into the morning of the
34:20
Speaker 11: Tepees double homicide. So essentially, doctor Michael McKee had planned
34:24
Speaker 11: to stay overnight at the hospital instead of going home
34:27
Speaker 11: the night that he committed these crimes. And this may
34:30
Speaker 11: be part of the reason why authorities are saying that
34:33
Speaker 11: this was a premeditated, planned attack, because he was thinking
34:36
Speaker 11: things out.
34:37
Speaker 1: Theories are like wildfire online. That is from at Matt
34:41
Speaker 1: Thibodeaux at TikTok and keep thinking. Citizens sluse, you are
34:47
Speaker 1: welcome here with all of your theories. Be they crazy
34:51
Speaker 1: or that was not that crazy? Is it actually that's
34:54
Speaker 1: a good theory. Was it premeditated? Obviously he had hours
34:59
Speaker 1: long to drive at this moment tonight extradition has been delayed.
35:06
Speaker 1: Is he a security risk in the meantime? During our
35:12
Speaker 1: last live chat during the airing of our program, a
35:16
Speaker 1: viewer noticed this, do not discount any evidence as being insignificant.
35:23
Speaker 1: Let's see. Okay, watch and walk. He pulls to the right.
35:26
Speaker 1: He pulls to the right one more time in the
35:29
Speaker 1: courtroom the courtroom video. He pulls to the right when
35:33
Speaker 1: he walks to the right, to the right, to the right.
35:39
Speaker 1: There he goes and stands, goes to the right. Now
35:43
Speaker 1: that's from wbnstn TV our friends there. Now let's look
35:47
Speaker 1: at the video. Well, to the right, to the right,
35:53
Speaker 1: he pulls to the right on every step. Let me
35:55
Speaker 1: see that one more time. Okay. Straight out to Randy Kessler,
36:01
Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer joining us oude of the Atlanta jurisdiction
36:06
Speaker 1: at Ksfamilylaw dot Com. Randy, thank you again for being
36:12
Speaker 1: with us tonight. Randy, I recall I don't know if
36:14
Speaker 1: you remember it, because you were definitely in the courthouse
36:17
Speaker 1: during this trial. My first bank robbery case, armed robbery.
36:22
Speaker 1: Of course, at superior level, you don't usually get a
36:26
Speaker 1: bank robbery because fdi C it's a federal case. But
36:30
Speaker 1: I got it, and I thought, wow, Wow, am I
36:31
Speaker 1: getting to try a bank robbery? This is unusual. It's
36:34
Speaker 1: because it's a terrible case that couldn't identify the defendants.
36:40
Speaker 1: Cannot assigned by random, by the way, so it wasn't that,
36:45
Speaker 1: but you could not identify the defendant at all. He
36:49
Speaker 1: had on a hat, a wig, dark aviator, sunglasses, a
36:53
Speaker 1: fake mustache, a fake beard. He was wearing a three
36:56
Speaker 1: piece double breasted suit which as soon as he got out,
37:00
Speaker 1: he ripped it all off. Underneath it was just based
37:03
Speaker 1: up the back underneath it and on shorts of t
37:05
Speaker 1: shirt and he just got on a bike and pedaled
37:08
Speaker 1: off as the police arrived. You know, it got him
37:10
Speaker 1: the way he walked because he was slewfooted. He walked
37:15
Speaker 1: like a duck. Plus he was dyslexic. And the bank
37:19
Speaker 1: robbery note said don't touch the owl ram this is
37:21
Speaker 1: a roby, so that said. He walked with his feet
37:26
Speaker 1: like that, and he sadly took the stand, and he
37:30
Speaker 1: took the stand in front of the jury. You know,
37:33
Speaker 1: that lawyer could have put him on the stand while
37:35
Speaker 1: the jury was out of the room and not seen
37:36
Speaker 1: him walk. He could have been sitting up there when
37:39
Speaker 1: the jury came in. I was just praying they wouldn't
37:42
Speaker 1: do that. The jury looked over the rail and saw
37:45
Speaker 1: him walking sleoughfooted, just like the bank robber walked in
37:48
Speaker 1: feet just like this. Did you see this guy? Did
37:51
Speaker 1: you see doctor McKee walking pulling to the right every time?
37:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you never know where it's going to tilt.
38:01
Speaker 6: The jury or persuade the jury. Hopefully they've got a
38:03
Speaker 6: lot more evidence than just the way he walks, but
38:05
Speaker 6: it doesn't hurt to have that in there. And certainly,
38:07
Speaker 6: you know, video cameras being everywhere, video cameras being in
38:10
Speaker 6: the courtroom. This is helpful, it's all, you know, adding
38:13
Speaker 6: on to the prosecution's case. I represent a lot of
38:17
Speaker 6: men controlling men that my advice is don't go to court.
38:20
Speaker 6: And you know why, because then all of a sudden,
38:22
Speaker 6: your wife is just as equal to you, and the
38:24
Speaker 6: court will make you do something, maybe not make you
38:27
Speaker 6: pay as much as you want.
38:29
Speaker 3: That's hard for a lot of powerful men.
38:31
Speaker 6: And women to understand that the relationship they've been controlling
38:35
Speaker 6: is all of a sudden changed where they are no
38:36
Speaker 6: longer disuperior in the relationship.
38:38
Speaker 3: And who knows if that's what clicked for him or
38:41
Speaker 3: triggered it. So we're talking about.
38:42
Speaker 1: Earlier crime stories with Nancy Grace Dave mac joining us
38:56
Speaker 1: Tonight Crime Stories investigative reporter. Is it true the vascular
39:01
Speaker 1: surgeon doctor McKee was arrested at Chick fil A? He
39:05
Speaker 1: was Nancy.
39:06
Speaker 9: The guy is just acting like there's nothing going on,
39:09
Speaker 9: just a regular day at the races, and he pops
39:12
Speaker 9: into Chick fil A to get his favorite lunch neck.
39:14
Speaker 9: That's where he was actually arrested, and the ATF was
39:17
Speaker 9: there on site.
39:18
Speaker 14: Nancy, I wonder.
39:20
Speaker 1: Why the ATF arrested him. That's a whole nother can
39:23
Speaker 1: of worms. We know that the extradition procedure has been delayed.
39:28
Speaker 1: Apparently private company performs the extradition process is being contracted
39:33
Speaker 1: out and they have a delay. I'm sure he's not
39:36
Speaker 1: in a hurry to get back Randy Kessler joining US
39:39
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. The arrogance. You know what this reminds me
39:44
Speaker 1: of Scott Peterson. And I'll tell you why. When Lacy's
39:50
Speaker 1: DNA was matched to the body, the body of her
39:55
Speaker 1: and her unborn child, Connor, officers came and they told
40:01
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson they wanted to tell him in person. Kessler.
40:06
Speaker 1: They said, we have to inform you that we've done
40:08
Speaker 1: a DNA match and the bodies that washed ashore it's
40:13
Speaker 1: Lacey and Connor. And do you know within about seven
40:18
Speaker 1: or eight minutes, Scott Peterson asked the police to drive
40:24
Speaker 1: him through in and out. He wanted it animal style,
40:29
Speaker 1: which means a special sauce. He wanted a double double
40:32
Speaker 1: with cheese, fries and a shake. It certainly did not
40:39
Speaker 1: affect his appetite, did it that? He just learned Lacey
40:44
Speaker 1: was absolutely dead and he would never have the son Connor.
40:47
Speaker 1: Same thing here. What did you do? Do a double
40:50
Speaker 1: round through Chick fil A to get some extra Chick
40:52
Speaker 1: fil A sauce?
40:55
Speaker 3: You're gonna make that closing argument.
40:58
Speaker 1: He got right as part of my clothes. He gets
41:01
Speaker 1: the grease.
41:03
Speaker 3: He's a star.
41:05
Speaker 6: Pridge and you should sit there and eat TV trays,
41:08
Speaker 6: TV dinners and do nothing but more.
41:10
Speaker 3: This was his ex wife from years ago. He was eating.
41:13
Speaker 1: He turned himself in.
41:15
Speaker 3: Chick fil A is delicious.
41:16
Speaker 1: He should turn himself in.
41:18
Speaker 3: Okay, but that's nothing.
41:20
Speaker 6: But whether he's eating at Popeye's or Chick fil A
41:22
Speaker 6: or Church's Fried Chicken, what does that matter.
41:25
Speaker 3: He's a guy who's got a stomach.
41:27
Speaker 1: Care where. I don't care where he ate. My point is,
41:31
Speaker 1: you know what, doctor Bethany, I believe you could verbalize
41:35
Speaker 1: this to Kesser and maybe make some sense get into
41:38
Speaker 1: that head. Can you explain the significance of this?
41:42
Speaker 5: Well, I see it as congratulatory, self congratulatory. So he's
41:47
Speaker 5: been obsessing all these years about getting rid of her.
41:51
Speaker 5: We call it katathy macomicide. That's when there's a compulsion
41:54
Speaker 5: to kill and it creates a horrible tension internally. And
41:58
Speaker 5: when the criminal finally works up the courage to do it,
42:01
Speaker 5: they're quite relieved afterwards. They're very satisfied with themselves. As
42:06
Speaker 5: I said earlier, he triumphed over here, he got his way.
42:10
Speaker 5: Now his world is all in perfect order. It's not
42:14
Speaker 5: like somebody who commits vehicular homicide by mistake and afterwards
42:20
Speaker 5: they're rattled and they're shaken and they can't believe that
42:22
Speaker 5: they hit somebody. This guy is quite happy, so I
42:25
Speaker 5: think this is his happy meal. You know, he's dancing
42:28
Speaker 5: on her grave.
42:29
Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Stories investigator, reporter. Why did the ATF
42:33
Speaker 1: arrest him?
42:34
Speaker 14: It came down to a lie. Doctor Michael McKee lied
42:38
Speaker 14: on a federal form when he purchased a handgun in Nevada.
42:42
Speaker 14: He provided a false residency form of information and that
42:47
Speaker 14: immediately triggered the federal jurisdiction for firearm violation alongside the
42:52
Speaker 14: state murder chargers. So the ATF was brought in because
42:56
Speaker 14: of the lie about where he was living.
42:59
Speaker 9: When he filed to that.
43:00
Speaker 1: Gun okay, did serious lawsuits play into triggering doctor McKee
43:09
Speaker 1: not that motive is necessary listen.
43:11
Speaker 15: Twelve weeks before he's accused of murder, McKee is sued
43:13
Speaker 15: for malpractice by Nevada man. McKee allegedly overseen erry when
43:17
Speaker 15: an eight point six inch cather shard breaks off in
43:20
Speaker 15: the patient's leg. The patient's lawyer spends over a month
43:23
Speaker 15: trying to track down McKee's serve and papers and has
43:26
Speaker 15: no luck for the process, server claims. A coworker of
43:28
Speaker 15: McKee says he just disappeared.
43:31
Speaker 16: McKee leaves Vegas after the malpractice lawsuit, taking a job
43:35
Speaker 16: at OSF St. Anthony Medical Center, Rockford, Illinois, purchasing a
43:39
Speaker 16: four hundred thousand dollars penhouse apartment in Chicago last July.
43:43
Speaker 16: The complaint alleges the failure of McKee caused the catheter
43:47
Speaker 16: to share, leaving an eight point six inch portion of
43:50
Speaker 16: the device in the plaintiff's body. McKee allegedly breached the
43:54
Speaker 16: standard of care, including lower extremity bleeding, a demon pain, discolouration, disfigurement,
43:59
Speaker 16: another in injuries.
44:00
Speaker 1: He evaded getting served. He high tailed it, even a
44:04
Speaker 1: process server couldn't find him.
44:06
Speaker 15: McKee able to evade a malpractice lawsuit for months. As
44:09
Speaker 15: a process server, it makes nearly a dozen failed attempts
44:12
Speaker 15: to serve McKee with the lawsuit. Nevada lawyer Dan Laird
44:15
Speaker 15: files the suit, but serving McKee was nearly impossible as
44:18
Speaker 15: the surgery group he worked for gave the attorney a
44:20
Speaker 15: fake address and the phone number issued with the State
44:23
Speaker 15: Medical Board for McKee is a fax machine.
44:26
Speaker 1: What did doctor Caravellas say?
44:29
Speaker 8: He said he has no idea where doctor Michael McKee
44:32
Speaker 8: is now, said he just disappeared.
44:35
Speaker 1: Wow, so McKee was a ghost. That's from Wsyx and Moore.
44:40
Speaker 1: Listen to this. A guy loses his testicle.
44:43
Speaker 16: A prison inmate of Nevada claims McKee caused him to
44:46
Speaker 16: have his left testicle removed. The blank of alleges he
44:49
Speaker 16: suffered a work related injury while incarcerated, causing pain and
44:53
Speaker 16: swelling in his left testicle. McKee was part of a
44:55
Speaker 16: medical review panel that approved the inmates medical care, resulting
44:59
Speaker 16: in a surgeon with limited experience to be used for
45:02
Speaker 16: the surgery. After a year of pain, repeated procedures to
45:05
Speaker 16: drain fluid a proper corrective surgery was performed, but the
45:08
Speaker 16: delay and treatment resulted in the permanent removal of the
45:11
Speaker 16: inmates left testicle.
45:13
Speaker 1: Repeated draining of your testicle. Okay, doctor Thomas Coin, Were
45:20
Speaker 1: these lawsuits enough to trigger him into doing something horrible
45:25
Speaker 1: like a double murder? Thinking she caused all of this
45:29
Speaker 1: strife in my life, it's all her fault. Blah blah blah.
45:33
Speaker 1: A shard of a catheter left in your leg, a
45:38
Speaker 1: surgical procedure to amputate your testicle. I guess he was
45:45
Speaker 1: under stress. How do you end up with a catheter
45:49
Speaker 1: shard stuck in your leg? And why do you have
45:51
Speaker 1: your testicle cut off?
45:53
Speaker 3: Well?
45:54
Speaker 8: I mean so if you if you are performing a
45:57
Speaker 8: surgery on someone, obviously, especially with vasculars surgery, where you
46:01
Speaker 8: are instrumenting or entering into or repairing a blood vessel,
46:06
Speaker 8: oftentimes that you may insert a catheter to maintain the
46:09
Speaker 8: patency or keep that vessel open while you're operating on it.
46:13
Speaker 8: I don't know how in this particular case this occurred,
46:16
Speaker 8: but it's possible that a shard of that catheter was
46:19
Speaker 8: dislodged during surgery, was accidentally cut off and left in
46:23
Speaker 8: or just simply left in accidentally rather than being removed
46:27
Speaker 8: when the surgery was complete. And that if that, if
46:30
Speaker 8: that catheter is left in place, they can actually block
46:33
Speaker 8: the normal blood flow within that vessel, causing eschemia as
46:37
Speaker 8: we say, or lack of blood flow to the testicle,
46:40
Speaker 8: which could cause that testicle to die.
46:43
Speaker 1: It can be very two different cases, doctor Coin. There's
46:46
Speaker 1: the one case with the Cather's shar left in the leg.
46:49
Speaker 1: Then there's the other cases. Innate, he has this testicle amputated.
46:54
Speaker 8: Oh that I don't know. I don't know how that
46:57
Speaker 8: process happened. But the the catheter, I mean, listen, there's
47:01
Speaker 8: been plenty of cases throughout you know, you know my
47:06
Speaker 8: time during training where there's been instruments left in patients,
47:10
Speaker 8: wrong sides operated on, you know, small little cloth pieces
47:17
Speaker 8: left inside of body during a surgery. So it does happen,
47:22
Speaker 8: and generally it's just you know, carelessness. You know, you're
47:25
Speaker 8: worried too much about closing or a bleeding area and
47:28
Speaker 8: you leave a catheter in place. And so that's probably
47:30
Speaker 8: what happened in that instance. As to the testicle incident, certainly,
47:35
Speaker 8: testicular torsion can happen in males. I don't know what
47:39
Speaker 8: went wrong there.
47:40
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about what went wrong there.
47:42
Speaker 1: But I know this, Randy Casser. When I graduated from
47:45
Speaker 1: law school, I never thought that I would put testical
47:47
Speaker 1: amputated in the same sentence. You just never know, right.
47:51
Speaker 6: There's a lot there that we're on air and I
47:53
Speaker 6: can't talk about it. But you know, Nancy, you were
47:55
Speaker 6: tough as a prosecutor, and that's I'll leave it at that.
47:58
Speaker 1: Guys, the state is still building its case. If you
48:01
Speaker 1: know or think you know anything about this case, if
48:04
Speaker 1: you saw something, heard something, please call six one four
48:09
Speaker 1: six four five two two two eight repeat six one four, six, four,
48:14
Speaker 1: five two two two eight. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,