Transcript

Liz Capants · Calm Under Fire

Col. John Boggs: Well, welcome back to Calm Under Fire. I'm Colonel John Boggs, president of Fortitude Consulting, an executive leadership development and coaching firm. Today, I'm joined by Liz Copantz, founder of EBC Associates and Erudites Networking Group. For nearly two decades, Liz has worked globally in executive search, talent advisory, and referral networking, helping organizations and leaders connect. grow and succeed together. Her work force is not just on placing talent, but on building long-term leadership partnerships. Now that's amazing. Liz, great to have you. Liz Capants: ⁓ Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. Col. John Boggs: Liz, organizations often say people are their greatest asset. Yet leadership hiring, mistakes, those mistakes in bringing in, like we were just talking about that, mistakes in bringing in people still happen. ⁓ What is up with that? How does that happen? Liz Capants: Yeah. So oftentimes an employer, a company will evaluate an individual strengths and skills and go through assessments. ⁓ And oftentimes they miss out on evaluating, you know, how that person fits into the ecosystem of the entire team, because it's the entire team and that fit that is even more important than Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: the individual strengths, that team fit and cohesiveness is what is going to really drive the business and the growth if they all work together and that fit is there within that team ecosystem, if that makes sense. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. So when you assess executive candidates, what leadership qualities matter most today? Liz Capants: Yep. So technical skills, of course, but also soft skills, judgment, you know, critical thinking, being able to make those, those decisions. Empathy is also part of that. So a lot of those soft skills, as well as the hard skills, the technical skills that are a fit for the job, but soft skills are as important. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: And always happen. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: That always happens. Do you find the soft skills become more important? Liz Capants: Yes, in today's market, they certainly are with AI and all the AI hype that we're seeing, ⁓ the discernment, the judgment, ⁓ making sure the security protocols are there and they're not just jumping into something really quickly without really having a strategy and well thought out process. So ⁓ I think those are even more important and will continue to be so. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. and Okay, so what behaviors from senior leaders quietly undermine themselves? Well, let me put it this way, undermine the hiring process. Liz Capants: Yeah, so sometimes what I've seen over the years is, for example, patterns or if somebody is assessing potential hire and it might remind them of someone else who either underperformed or overperformed. So, you know, it's really important to to remove that sort of bias or that preconceived thought and give that person know, fair opportunity, everyone is different, even though they may be similar to another person's profile. So I think just removing some of that bias and that previous ⁓ experience, which is hard to do, sometimes not not easy to do. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. Bias and preconceived notions. So how can an organization avoid hiring for the resume instead of hiring for leadership potential? We're talking about that bias. Yeah. Liz Capants: We can see you've done. Yeah, yeah, so the interview process and many different interview styles and ⁓ pitch presentations, sometimes case studies that really demonstrate or give ⁓ an opportunity to see how the person would actually do the role or make a presentation, ⁓ a back and forth ⁓ one way. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: Interview is one thing but it doesn't really show how the person performs. So giving that person an opportunity to either do a case study interview, which is fairly common or a presentation, a pitch presentation, you get a much better idea of how they perform. Not just what they say, but how they actually go about doing that. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You give them, do you put them in scenarios and have them talk through it? Liz Capants: Yeah, usually they're given, we're given a mandate from the company that they have to follow. So it might be a hypothetical, it might be a situation specific or sometimes, know, Canada is, you know, can come up with their own, you know, sort of their own ⁓ hypothetical. So it varies. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, okay. Now, you've built a global network, a global referral network. So how important are relationships in shaping leadership careers? Liz Capants: Yep. I stepped into networking, John, probably 2011. I wasn't doing it as much before and then 2011 it was a game changer for my business. It ties into people and search and finding people. So it was a very natural sort of progression when I went into the networking, but it's fueled my business over the years. Relationships is Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: you know, all it's about when you have that trust and that ⁓ credibility and you can deliver on what you are saying you do, that's where opportunities, whether it's job or business are found. it's, you know, it's super important to always have a network and, you know, always be building that. So, yeah. Col. John Boggs: Your network, does this support large organizations or mid-market organizations? What kind of organizations are we talking about? Liz Capants: Yeah, so it's SMBs, midsize and enterprise. So we have a mix of everything. We have some solopreneurs, we have some ex CEOs that have taken a package that are now trying to do consulting, kind of start their own thing. They have the expertise and so we assist them ⁓ even further as they build their business and grow. So it's really a combination of everything. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ wow, very good. a person who's they've decided to depart their pattern, so to speak, and now they want to look for something different. So they come to you. Liz Capants: Yes, starting a business is not easy. ⁓ It is ⁓ not for the faint of heart. And for me, found when for me, the network is a good network should essentially act as your sales team and should help to connect you. And especially if you're starting out so low, trying to get things off the ground, you've got to make money. You're trying to... Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. I Liz Capants: you know, get your website up, but you also need business coming in. So it's, hard to balance all of that. And a good network is really key to help, you know, basically to help refer you. So. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. What separates leaders who build strong networks from those who struggle? Liz Capants: Great question. ⁓ think those who have ⁓ strong networks are always bringing value. ⁓ So it's what I call, know, paying it forward when you can help others succeed, they come back to help you, right? So you bring more, you know, to the conversation, to the person, and kind of look at it as a very long-term relationship, because you never know ultimately where. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: an opportunity may come. So you're always building on that, adding value, ⁓ sharing your expertise. I look at networking really as a way to educate each other on what you do. ⁓ So it's really educating people so that they understand and can help connect you. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Okay, so when you're networking, help me here, this is when you're networking, well, let me rephrase this. You have a client, come in, do you send them to networking events? Do you tell them to attend networking events? Or is it, hey, whenever you're out, you're networking? Liz Capants: Yeah, so it varies the situation depending on the individual or the company. ⁓ We, host my own events, so we do our own events. ⁓ We also do, I do a lot of collaborations, so I will bring other people together to connect with this person where there could be opportunity for, you know, all of the individuals. So it's a variety of different things. But creating a lot of events myself. Col. John Boggs: You Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: ⁓ We've done many over the years, dinners, lunches, we do spotlight presentations. So we give a company an opportunity to explain their services, their products, what they do. And then we bring in very targeted potential prospects to. ⁓ So yeah, so it's been a combination of everything. Col. John Boggs: ⁓ very good. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So how can an executive develop influence without appearing that this is just transactional? This is this for that. I mean, how can they? Liz Capants: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's I think it's again, just going, bringing bringing value to to that person. How can I help you? How can I be a resource? Or what are you looking for? Or what are you struggling with? And just, you know, hearing hearing what that is, and then, you know, being able to to provide that I think that when you pay it forward and look out for Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: that other person, it comes back to, because then they want to in turn, how can I help you? Right? So if you have that mindset, it does come back to you. And I've seen it just myself over the years. So just always paying it forward. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So when you work with leaders at different career stages, do they develop patterns or What patterns do you see when the executive feels ready for the next step? I want to do something different. Do they... ⁓ Is there pattern? Liz Capants: Yeah. Usually they have just peaked with in their organization if they're at the highest level and they just are ready to do their own thing, ⁓ start their own business or again, maybe take a package, ⁓ you know, and, and really just they do, they've just hit a ceiling with that, that current organization. Yeah, sometimes they have no choice and they Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: They have to take that package, but I think they oftentimes get to a point where they're just ready for the next step and, you know, starting their own thing or so it's combination. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Do you ever get, this is kind of ugly, but do you ever get a... like nasty notes, so to speak, from companies that say the executive is leaving company A and they engage with you to go to company B, do you ever get nasty notes from A? How does that work? Liz Capants: ⁓ no, because company A doesn't know that I'm working with this person. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Okay. Liz Capants: Yeah, so it's, yeah. So no nasty notes. I've never, never gotten a nasty note, but, but they wouldn't, they wouldn't even know that it's all, you know, I do a lot of work that's confidential. So confidentiality is key. So yeah. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Yeah. That's very good. That's very good. The companies that you place people, are there common thread things that they're looking for in executives? Excuse me. Liz Capants: Yeah, experience, of course, leadership. Today's market, though, is such a crazy market, as you know, John, that everything is kind of shifting and getting disrupted by the minute almost. But I would say in more normal times, ⁓ industry expertise, leadership, management experience. ⁓ It all factors in ⁓ and commonality if they have, ⁓ usually in a certain industry, you know your peers or your other, ⁓ others that are in that industry. So through referrals or they may have heard, ⁓ this person is perfect for this. So everybody knows all of that Intel. So Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. It does make sense. So what mindset helps a leader navigate the uncertainty of going into a new position? Liz Capants: That makes sense. ⁓ into a new company, ⁓ if they're, yeah, I mean, doing the due diligence and ⁓ doing all the research, right? ⁓ Understanding ⁓ the new leadership team. You can research and find just about every person, LinkedIn, or you can do that research, get referrals, get ⁓ other people that have, ⁓ you know, know them or have worked there so you can. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Liz Capants: Get a pretty good idea of what you're you know what you're stepping into and and you know in today's today's market the the interview process is anywhere from on a short time, you know, four weeks to You know three months sometimes longer. So you have enough opportunity You always what I say people get that gut feeling like go with your gut like only you know Intuitively if this is the right team and the right people and you can tell that you know pretty quickly, I think. Col. John Boggs: Have you ever had the situation where people walk in the door and it's, it seemed like it would be a good fit, but it didn't work out? Liz Capants: ⁓ yes, ⁓ yes, it has happened, yes. Col. John Boggs: Can you tell us about it? Can you tell us about a couple of those? Liz Capants: Yeah, I mean, at a high level, it's, you know, sometimes internally, ⁓ the new hire, there's some sensitivity or there can be within the existing team, ⁓ as they bring a new person on in whatever capacity, and maybe these people didn't really want that or didn't love that idea. And maybe it's affected their job. And maybe they've, you know, done some reorgan restructure. So they're not always super happy about this new person. what, ⁓ you know, face value should be a pretty seamless, you would think, transition, sometimes can't be for that reason. ⁓ Other ⁓ example could be ⁓ that once the person starts, the scope of the role can shift and change and due to... Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: a variety of different reasons. you have, you know, that just business shifts or, or, know, internally, maybe people hadn't communicated certain things. And so it's, ⁓ yeah, it does. ⁓ unfortunately it does happen. So, but, ⁓ a lot of, ⁓ a lot of moving parts that go with people and human nature and just, ⁓ and a lot of it is, is what that is. Right. Like I was saying earlier, Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Liz Capants: when you identify a top ⁓ candidate, highly skilled individual, they may be great, but if they don't fit into the bigger picture of the team, so that team works well, right? They may not be a fit, right? Because it has to work within the entire team and organization for that growth to really happen. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. How should CEOs think about their talent strategy? Should it be different today than it was in the past? Liz Capants: Oh gosh, that's such a loaded question, John. You're going to regret asking me that. It's like a lot of clients now are pausing and going, oh, do we need a head of marketing or do we just have an AI agent, you know, manage our marketing? So there's just a lot of, um, a lot of pause happening. Um, uh, but I think my, my recommendation is always to, you know, hire slowly. Col. John Boggs: Hahaha! ⁓ ⁓ Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: have a process and a strategy. with AI going back to that today, there is a lot that AI can take over, but people are still absolutely needed. So ⁓ to manage, make judgments, that expertise will always be there. So I think just having a strategy and ⁓ doing your due diligence, going through that process. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: And then as important as going through that, John, is on the employer side, the company side, because it's a two-way street. So making sure that person can be set up for success, they have the resources, infrastructure, so that they can have success in that role. It's a 50-50, it's a give and take. The person is only as successful as the company can help ⁓ to get them there, right? So yeah, so that's as key. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. You mentioned AI and in my work, I've had to ⁓ ask a lot of my people I work with, CEOs and CIOs and the like, when they start talking about AI, I would always ask, well, what's the business case? Liz Capants: Yep. Col. John Boggs: And please don't say it's just to let people go because that's not a business case. You're trying to use it to save your budget or do whatever. What has been the impact of AI in what you do? I know you've alluded to it already. Liz Capants: Yeah. Yeah, it's still an evolving ⁓ situation, John. There's a lot of companies that still we all don't a lot of us don't know. I mean, let's face it, whether you're looking for that job or internal, you know, leader, ⁓ lot, there's a lot of unknowns. I think there's a lot of hype in in AI. I'm certainly all for it. I use it myself, of course. But I think that we just have to be cautious. to make sure that it's approached in the right way with the right strategy and still having people as part of those roles and job functions. But it's an ever evolving right now, changing. Someone told me the other day there was like 10 new AI tools. I said, I don't want to hear about them. don't even care. I don't even want to hear. It's too much. It's like overkill. It's overwhelming. So I feel like this has to Col. John Boggs: Yes. ⁓ my. Yeah. Liz Capants: come to a pause, it's not sustainable humanly to keep up with. Let's be alternative robots, that could happen too. But it's just impossible to keep up with this amount of information. It's exhausting. But it's just an ongoing ⁓ right now with my clients and conversations and trying to figure everything out. So we'll see. Col. John Boggs: Thanks. So Tos, was there a moment where a leadership placement or a career decision carried real pressure, carried, I mean, pressure on you? And how did you help guide the outcome? Liz Capants: in the placement of the person you're saying? Yeah, ⁓ over the years I've refined my process and my methodology. think, John, one of the biggest things that we do, my team and I, is what I call the post-hire. So we go through finding the person, going through all those steps, but as important is that first, like six months when they're Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: adjusting to the company and getting used to personalities and making sure expectations are met. And so that post-hire is super important. think sometimes in my line of work, it can be underutilized, but we really pride ourselves on that and have saved companies tens of thousands of dollars over the years by being that intermediary for the candidate and the client to make sure. it is a success, right? Our success is, your success is our success. Can't even talk. So that post-hire, a piece, especially in the transition is really key to help ⁓ both parties really adjust Col. John Boggs: After years, after years of connecting with people and ideals globally, what continues to inspire you about leadership, about keeping up this work? Liz Capants: Yeah, I truly love what I do. ⁓ Meeting people, hearing their story. I get a lot of reward from when you make a good match ⁓ for a hire or a business opportunity, and it's a win-win and there's growth and opportunity that they couldn't have found otherwise. That is very rewarding, you know, to me and just being a resource for people, being that connector. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: And it's just been, I feel very lucky to have had this career. It's put a, you know, a lot of hard work, but it's paid off and yeah, it's a great business to be in, people business. Col. John Boggs: Can you tell us a little bit about EBC Associates and Erudite's networking group? Liz Capants: Yeah, sure. So, EBC Associates is an executive search ⁓ firm. ⁓ We manage, though, roles, I'd say, mid to senior level. We don't do too many junior level. We're industry agnostic. We work globally. We built a team ⁓ in South Africa and Brazil. So, we can build teams and we built up a database pretty much anywhere. We have the network. AeroDyte's grew as an extension to help connect job seekers that maybe didn't match my paid searches. so pulled the group together. Now it's grown over the years to help businesses connect as well as job seekers. that's ⁓ a little bit, they both work as part of that ecosystem. ⁓ And the network is really a feeder into my EBC business. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Liz Capants: I will leverage both. So it's a bit of a unique business model in my line of work, but it just works for me. Col. John Boggs: Okay, so erudite will get you going and then you move over here to EBC and we'll find you a position or hopefully find you a position someone that wants you or. Liz Capants: Yeah, or vice versa. So I have a lot of clients on my EBC side that maybe don't like to network or don't need to network. They just want to focus on, here's what we need. Here's what we need to hire. We just want to focus here. And so they just stay there and that's fine. And then the network could be, you know, for businesses looking for business opportunities, ⁓ as well as for those in transition. So it's a kind of a mix of both. So, and then what I do is oftentimes my clients on the EBC side, Col. John Boggs: Next tag. OK. Liz Capants: will come to me for other resources that they're looking for. And I'll leverage the network and I will recommend ⁓ those resources to them. So, yeah. Col. John Boggs: Okay, okay, very good. Well, Liz, this was a great conversation. Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it. Liz Capants: ⁓ my gosh, my pleasure. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: And I hope we stay connected. But at any rate, I really greatly appreciate this. And thank you, thank you. And to our listeners out there, you know where to go to if you're looking to hire. You look up EBC or Iridite. Well, how can people reach you? Liz Capants: Yeah. ⁓ of course. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ either, so on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn or direct on my website. We have a ⁓ contact us form. can certainly fill that out. ⁓ I'm on LinkedIn pretty regularly also, John. ⁓ yeah, either way is great. So yeah, that would be. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you got a great website. So that's perfect. Outstanding. Yes. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Okay. Well, for our listeners, hey, that's it. Remember leadership is too important to get wrong. So please pay attention. If you need to get good leaders, you know, to tap into Liz because she will, she will find you the right person. And so stay steady, stay well, lead well. And that's all on this end out here. Liz Capants: Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you