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SHOCK KOHBERGER DEFENSE: I WAS FRAMED, 911 CALLS FROM INSIDE HOME REVEALED. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 2: Location of your emergency? I don't.
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  Speaker 3: We don't know what what is.
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  Speaker 4: The of the emergency?
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  Speaker 5: One one?
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  Speaker 6: Who King?
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  Speaker 2: Trying on a location of your emergency?
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  Speaker 4: Something? Hope?
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  Speaker 3: We don't know what what.
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  Speaker 4: Is the as of the emergency? What is the rest
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  Speaker 4: of the address?
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  Speaker 3: Oh King?
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  Speaker 4: Two roads? Okay?
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  Speaker 2: And there's that a house or an apartments?
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  Speaker 3: The house?
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  Speaker 4: Can you repeat the address to make sure that I
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  Speaker 4: have it right.
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  Speaker 7: I'll talk to you, guys. We're we have a delights over.
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  Speaker 2: Next to them.
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  Speaker 8: Just hearing that nine one one call makes all of
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  Speaker 8: our legal analysis and speculation about what may or may
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  Speaker 8: not happen at trial dim dim because we hear the
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  Speaker 8: fear and the terror in the voices of those co
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  Speaker 8: eds upon finding the bodies of their roommates in the
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  Speaker 8: last hours. Stunning and heart wrenching nine one one calls
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  Speaker 8: and texts have been released that reveal what the roommates
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  Speaker 8: did before they called nine one, well as well their movements.
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  Speaker 8: But first, let's hear the actual nine one one call
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  Speaker 8: and let me advise you. It's disturbing, and of course
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  Speaker 8: the Brian Coberger defense wants it suppressed.
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  Speaker 1: They don't want the jury to hear this. Wow, I
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  Speaker 1: wonder why tell.
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  Speaker 3: Me exactly what's going on?
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  Speaker 7: One of our one of the roommates has.
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  Speaker 5: Passed out and she's drung class night and shn't wake
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  Speaker 5: me up.
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  Speaker 7: Oh, and they saw some men in their house.
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  Speaker 5: I was, yeah, Hian, are you in the pace? Okay?
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  Speaker 4: I need someone to keep the phone. Stop passing it around?
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  Speaker 5: Can I just tell you what happened? Pretty much?
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  Speaker 4: What is going on currently? If someone passed out right now.
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  Speaker 5: I don't really know what pretty much for you in Okay.
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  Speaker 4: I need to know what's going on right now. If
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  Speaker 4: someone has passed out, can you find that out?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll come on a medical check.
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  Speaker 4: We have to.
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  Speaker 8: I wonder how that nine one one dispatcher feels right
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  Speaker 8: now as we hear her say, uh, stop passing it
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  Speaker 8: around and being.
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  Speaker 1: Completely rude to these co eds calling in.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 8: You see the difference in the voice of the second caller,
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  Speaker 8: and she's sounds much calmer than you know what. Let's
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  Speaker 8: listen to the first one now, and I don't on.
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  Speaker 2: Location of the emergency.
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  Speaker 5: Something he's talking to you.
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  Speaker 4: Don't know what what is the address of the emergency?
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  Speaker 4: What is the rest of the address oh king, okay,
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  Speaker 4: and is that a house or an apartment? It's a house.
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  Speaker 4: Can you repeat the address to make sure that I
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  Speaker 4: have it right.
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  Speaker 7: I'll talk to you guys. We're we live at the lights,
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  Speaker 7: so we're next to them.
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  Speaker 8: You can hear the sobbing and the hysteria in the
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  Speaker 8: background of that nine on one call. Now compare it
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  Speaker 8: to the next comments.
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  Speaker 3: Tell me exactly what's going on.
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  Speaker 4: One of our one of the roommates.
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  Speaker 7: Whos passed out and she's drunk class night and.
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  Speaker 4: She's not wake me up.
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  Speaker 3: It's okay.
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  Speaker 5: Oh, and they saw some man in their house house night.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, an, are you with the patient? Okay?
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  Speaker 2: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
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  Speaker 4: Can I just tell you what happened?
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  Speaker 5: Pretty much?
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  Speaker 4: What is going on currently? If someone passed out right now,
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  Speaker 4: I don't really know what pretty much at PIM Okay,
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  Speaker 4: I need to know what's going on right now? If
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  Speaker 4: someone has passed out, can you find that out?
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  Speaker 5: No, check.
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  Speaker 8: What we have to And there you hear the surviving
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  Speaker 8: victim speaking, and she begins to tell what happened.
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  Speaker 1: She says pretty much at four a m.
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  Speaker 8: And the dispatch operator cuts in and goes, yeah, I
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  Speaker 8: don't need to know that. I need to know if
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  Speaker 8: somebody passed out. Can you find that out?
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  Speaker 9: Okay, let's keep going.
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  Speaker 5: She's not waking up.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, one moment, I'm going to help hert.
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  Speaker 5: It that way.
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  Speaker 8: You're crying and heavy breathing between sobs. In the background,
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  Speaker 8: it was almost unintelligible. Now they've got a guy friend
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  Speaker 8: that's been brought over, and you hear him screaming.
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  Speaker 1: Xana, Ethan.
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  Speaker 8: Unintelligible right now, get somebody here right now, and the
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  Speaker 8: continued sobbing, and you hear someone.
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  Speaker 1: Yelling Xana, Xana.
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  Speaker 8: And I only can imagine at that moment to Chris
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  Speaker 8: McDonough joining me. He and I've been to the scene
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  Speaker 8: many many times, them shaking Xanna, yelling at Xana, trying
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  Speaker 8: to make her wake up. No wonder Coburger wants this
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  Speaker 8: suppressed so the jury will never hear it, because it
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  Speaker 8: takes you to that moment when they realize their roommates
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  Speaker 8: have all been murdered.
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  Speaker 10: Absolutely, Nancy, I mean, this is a very powerful nine
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  Speaker 10: one one call. It also gives us a clear understanding
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  Speaker 10: of the state of mind of everybody that was experiencing
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  Speaker 10: this horror that very moment. I mean to the point
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  Speaker 10: where you know, there's almost a disbelief that takes place.
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  Speaker 10: And I've heard, like you and many others, hundreds of
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  Speaker 10: these phone calls, and these kids imagine going upstairs and
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  Speaker 10: witnessing what they've witnessed is just horrific. It's absolutely horrific.
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  Speaker 8: I'm just thinking how they are going to try to
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  Speaker 8: get the nine on one calls suppressed.
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  Speaker 11: It's really hard to do. To doctor Bethany.
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  Speaker 8: Marshall, first of all, we were just speaking to Chris mcdonna.
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  Speaker 8: He is the star of the Interview Room on his
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  Speaker 8: own YouTube channel, but for my purposes, he is a
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  Speaker 8: veteran homicide detective with over three hundred death scenes under
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  Speaker 8: his belt. He's at Coldcasefoundation dot org. Doctor Bethany, these
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  Speaker 8: two surviving victims, Dylan and Bethany, have been attacked, maligned, mistreated,
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  Speaker 8: all sorts of accusations hurled their way.
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  Speaker 1: None of it matters when you hear this nine one
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  Speaker 1: one call. None of that matters.
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  Speaker 8: I remember when I first started prosecuting, I would try to,
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  Speaker 8: you know, reshape the victims or witnesses to give a
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  Speaker 8: better impression.
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  Speaker 11: That lasted one trial I'm like, forget it.
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  Speaker 8: Take your witness as you find them, and whether the
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  Speaker 8: cross exam nothing is going to matter to this jury.
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  Speaker 1: When they hear that nine to one one call. No
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  Speaker 1: matter how the defense tries to attack.
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  Speaker 12: These girls, Nancy, this nine to one one call is
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  Speaker 12: the first witness and the last witness in this case.
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  Speaker 12: It's uncontrovertible truth. You cannot take away from it. You
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  Speaker 12: cannot minimize, you cannot cross examine a tape and try
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  Speaker 12: to tell the witnesses, Oh, they weren't really that emotional
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  Speaker 12: and they were making it up. It's right there. You
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  Speaker 12: hear the shock, the shock in comprehension, trying to make
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  Speaker 12: sense of what's going on, the hysteria. As you said earlier, also, Nancy, fear,
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  Speaker 12: profound fear. They say there was a man in the
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  Speaker 12: house last night, So in a house where they feel
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  Speaker 12: vulnerable at that point too guilt that is their roommate
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  Speaker 12: and not them. You know, Nancy, the tapes are going
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  Speaker 12: to be suppressed because these voices don't lie. They are real, true, raw,
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  Speaker 12: jagged emotion.
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  Speaker 8: I'm going out now to crime Stories. Investigative reporter who
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  Speaker 8: has devoted herself to researching and investigating, pouring over every detail,
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  Speaker 8: every photo, every word of transcript in this case, Sidney's
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  Speaker 8: summer joining us. Could you clarify for everyone who is
• 8:36
  Speaker 8: Hunter Johnson?
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  Speaker 7: So Nancy Hunter Johnson is referred to only as HJ
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  Speaker 7: in court documents, but when you read the Gonzalvest statement
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  Speaker 7: in response to this nine to one one call being
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  Speaker 7: made public, they mention Hunter Johnson. He is a friend
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  Speaker 7: of Ethan Shapins, and he is that male voice that
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  Speaker 7: you're hearing on the nine to one one call, according
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  Speaker 7: to the Gonsolvest' family. So the context that we can
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  Speaker 7: kind of gather what I'm hearing at least, is that
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  Speaker 7: Hunter is the one who couldn't get a hold of
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  Speaker 7: Sethan finally decides, you know they're not answering the bedroom door.
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  Speaker 7: I'm going to step in here and see what's going on.
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  Speaker 7: So he opens that door. He sees Vanna's body, and
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  Speaker 7: at this point he knows that something is really wrong.
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  Speaker 7: He can immediately tells beth Andy Funk to call nine
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  Speaker 7: one one, but it seems like he didn't give her
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  Speaker 7: the full story of what was going on, so he
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  Speaker 7: tells her that Zana needs help. She needs to call
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  Speaker 7: nine one one, but doesn't really explain everything. So when
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  Speaker 7: you hear them, we need to go check, we need
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  Speaker 7: to get more information for the dispatcher. They go inside
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  Speaker 7: to talk to Hunter to see what's going on, and
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  Speaker 7: they're asking, is she okay? Is she passed out? Because
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  Speaker 7: he hasn't told them what he is seeing in an
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  Speaker 7: effort to protect them, maybe keep them calm so they
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  Speaker 7: can get nine one one there, And you can hear
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  Speaker 7: him get out, get out, get out, telling them to
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  Speaker 7: back out of the room because he doesn't want them
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  Speaker 7: to see the horror that he is experiencing.
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  Speaker 8: When you know what you're looking for, and you'll have
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  Speaker 8: to the drill have to be told this in advance.
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  Speaker 8: When you know what you're looking for or listening for,
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  Speaker 8: you clearly hear him h J. Hunter yelling Xana Athan
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  Speaker 8: and then you hear him again, yelling for Xana Cronodle
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  Speaker 8: to wake up.
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  Speaker 11: Here. We hear him again, listen, yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, and how old is she?
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  Speaker 7: She's twenty.
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  Speaker 4: Twenty, you said.
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  Speaker 1: Twenty.
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  Speaker 7: Here's okay?
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  Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, okay, I need someone to stop passing the
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  Speaker 4: phone around because I've talked to four different people.
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  Speaker 5: Hey, sorry, they just gave me the phone.
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  Speaker 4: Is she breathing?
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  Speaker 2: Shell?
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  Speaker 5: He? Is she breathing? No?
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  Speaker 8: What is wrong with this dispatch operator? But you know what,
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  Speaker 8: that's neither here nor there. Here we are hearing HJ.
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  Speaker 8: Hunter talking to dispatch, and at the beginning you hear
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  Speaker 8: heavy breathing, someone whispering, whispering something unintelligible that seems to
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  Speaker 8: end with the word blood.
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  Speaker 11: And then you hear him turn around.
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  Speaker 8: And yell get out, get out, get out.
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  Speaker 1: And crying.
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  Speaker 8: And then you hear a female voice crying, and then
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  Speaker 8: you hear dispatch being rude.
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  Speaker 11: Again. Let's hear more of the n I'm on one
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  Speaker 11: called just released.
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  Speaker 7: And I can't talk to him.
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  Speaker 2: Hello, okay, I have already sent to be ambulance and
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  Speaker 2: law enforcement.
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  Speaker 4: Stay on the line. If there's a fibrillator available, send
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  Speaker 4: someone to get it now and tell me when.
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  Speaker 2: You have it.
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  Speaker 5: Again, there's a poet here right now.
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  Speaker 4: Okay. If there's a deibrillator available, send someone to get
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  Speaker 4: it now and tell me when you have it.
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  Speaker 1: Do you have a disipulator?
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  Speaker 5: Guess do you have one?
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  Speaker 4: Are you talking to the officer? Yes, Okay, I'm gonna
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  Speaker 4: let you go to see there with you and can.
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  Speaker 5: Help you well, okay, thank you fine.
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  Speaker 8: Okay to Sydney Summer, joining us at Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Sydney,
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  Speaker 8: you hear dispatch clearly not understanding what's happening. Not their fault,
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  Speaker 8: because even the girls right now don't really understand what's happening.
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  Speaker 8: The only one that knows what has happened to a
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  Speaker 8: certain degree is Hunter Johnson.
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  Speaker 11: He saw obviously that they were.
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  Speaker 8: Dead and told Dylan and Bethany to get out, yelling
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  Speaker 8: at them, get out, get out, don't don't.
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  Speaker 11: Go in there.
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  Speaker 8: A defibrillator would not have helped at that point, Sydney.
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  Speaker 7: No, Nancy, absolutely not. And that's the point that involve
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  Speaker 7: a family made. And their statement about this nine one
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  Speaker 7: one call is again, remember as you're hearing this, if
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  Speaker 7: they had called nine one one at four fifty am,
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: the result would have been the same. All four of
• 13:06
  Speaker 7: these students still would have lost their lives. And Nancy,
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: I do think it's interesting that the girls, everyone on
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  Speaker 7: this nine one one call mentions the man that they
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  Speaker 7: saw in their house at four am multiple times, So
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: as they're making this nine one one call, the girls
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  Speaker 7: know enough to feel like that is connected in some
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  Speaker 7: way or sheep or form, they feel that's important enough
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  Speaker 7: to tell the nine one one dispatcher. So it's unclear
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  Speaker 7: exactly who knew what in this moment, but it does
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  Speaker 7: feel like it was important to them that this possible
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  Speaker 7: break in be mentioned right off the back.
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  Speaker 11: It does, Sidney Sumner.
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  Speaker 8: There is no a replacement, There is no substitute for preparation,
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  Speaker 8: for a careful review of every line, every document, every
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: piece of evidence, because even one word, or in my case,
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: in a serial murder case tried, one earring can prove
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  Speaker 8: so much.
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  Speaker 11: And what you just said I find incredibly valuable.
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  Speaker 8: And I'll tell you why, Sidney Summer, Because we know
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  Speaker 8: that the eyewitness that spotted who the state says is
• 14:14
  Speaker 8: Brian Coburger, his build, his color, his hair color, his
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: bushy eyebrows. They're going to try and destroy her. But
• 14:26
  Speaker 8: what she just said on the nine one one call
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  Speaker 8: is called an excited utterance. Whether that really fits this
• 14:36
  Speaker 8: scenario or not, that's what it's called under the law.
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  Speaker 8: This is before she had time to fabricate a story
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  Speaker 8: as it will be claimed. This is what's happening on
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  Speaker 8: the scene. And you're right, Sidney, and you've identified. The
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  Speaker 8: importance of the witness is noting then there was a
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  Speaker 8: guy in the house. If the dispatch hadn't interrupted her,
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  Speaker 8: we would have heard more right about what happened around
• 15:01
  Speaker 8: four am. You're right, she is connecting the murders to
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: the intruder in the home. Now, you also heard Sidney Sumner,
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  Speaker 8: our reporter, talking about what the Gonsalvest family said. Kelly's
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  Speaker 8: family and I got to tell you these families have
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: been through hell, hell, and it's not over yet. There's
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: a trial to be had, But I want you to
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  Speaker 8: hear what they have to say about this nine on
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  Speaker 8: one call. In all their suffering, they maintain not only courage,
• 15:39
  Speaker 8: but grace.
• 15:40
  Speaker 13: The Gonzalvez family releases a statement they say every ragged breath, cry,
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  Speaker 13: and trimmor in the student's voices reveals a cruel reality.
• 15:48
  Speaker 13: They experienced, the kind of horror that shakes you to
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  Speaker 13: your deepest core.
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  Speaker 3: Tell me exactly what's on.
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  Speaker 5: One of the roommates has passed out as she's young
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: class night and short way up. Oh. Also, man in
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  Speaker 5: their house was right.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 8: In the last hours, heart wrenching nine one one calls
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  Speaker 8: have been released of what was going on. At the
• 16:10
  Speaker 8: scene of the murder when the roommates wake up and
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: discover for people they didn't know at the time, they
• 16:19
  Speaker 8: were all dead. For Beautiful Beautiful University, Idaho students, this
• 16:26
  Speaker 8: as a smirky selfie emerges of Oh.
• 16:30
  Speaker 11: Thank you, Brian Coberg.
• 16:33
  Speaker 8: This is around ten twenty ten thirty in the morning,
• 16:36
  Speaker 8: ten thirty one am to be precise. Interesting, this is
• 16:42
  Speaker 8: just after the murders that said take a listen to this.
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  Speaker 8: You of course you know this is coming. Those nine
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  Speaker 8: one one calls are so powerful the defense is fighting
• 16:55
  Speaker 8: tooth and claw to get them suppressed.
• 16:57
  Speaker 14: Law enforcement released the nine to one one recording after
• 17:00
  Speaker 14: the prosecutors unsealed a court document with transcript of the call.
• 17:03
  Speaker 14: The filing in response to Coberg's argument the jury should
• 17:07
  Speaker 14: not hear the nine to one one call. The attorneys
• 17:09
  Speaker 14: argue that the call was improperly submitted as evidence, as
• 17:12
  Speaker 14: many off the statements meet in the.
• 17:13
  Speaker 13: Call are hearsay.
• 17:15
  Speaker 14: Judge John Judge already ruled that the statements in question
• 17:18
  Speaker 14: fall under present tense impression and excited utterance exceptions, but
• 17:22
  Speaker 14: defense attorneys are making the argument again with Ada County
• 17:25
  Speaker 14: Judge Stephen Hipler.
• 17:27
  Speaker 8: Joining me high profile lawyer out of the LA jurisdiction
• 17:32
  Speaker 8: Philip Debay, Okay.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: You know what you just heard.
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  Speaker 8: I'm going to throw a technical legal term at you
• 17:38
  Speaker 8: is a big stink and pile a bs. Okay, that's
• 17:43
  Speaker 8: what that legal motion is. And I don't know how
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: defense attorneys keep doing it and have a straight face.
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  Speaker 8: You know, they make an argument that a nine to
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  Speaker 8: one one call shouldn't come in, when of course it's
• 17:54
  Speaker 8: coming in. It's an excited utterance and it's a present
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  Speaker 8: tense impression.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: But also so of course it's going to come in.
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  Speaker 8: If the speaker takes the stand and can be cross
• 18:09
  Speaker 8: examined on it.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: So what are they trying to do?
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  Speaker 15: Well, I think what they're trying to establish is that
• 18:15
  Speaker 15: you cannot use nine to one one calls to circumvent
• 18:18
  Speaker 15: the rules against your say, and you've got to understand
• 18:21
  Speaker 15: something in order for it to be a present sense impression.
• 18:24
  Speaker 15: They have to be relaying what is happening in real time,
• 18:28
  Speaker 15: in other words, as it occurs. And one of the
• 18:30
  Speaker 15: things she says, there was a man in the house
• 18:33
  Speaker 15: last night, So what are you going to do? You're
• 18:36
  Speaker 15: going to state stale facts from the night before to
• 18:39
  Speaker 15: get around the rules against her, say.
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  Speaker 8: First of all, what you just said is not true,
• 18:43
  Speaker 8: because I have entered niemal one calls saying nim one
• 18:48
  Speaker 8: calls internet into evidence by the murder victim, who obviously
• 18:53
  Speaker 8: couldnt be cross examined unless you perform a seance in
• 18:56
  Speaker 8: front of the jury crime stories with Nancy Grace. So
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: the fact that the nine one one call or who
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: is speaking on the naimal one call cannot be crossed
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: is not a reason not to bring in the naimal
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: one call. And the judge pointed out, I guess you
• 19:21
  Speaker 8: think the judge is wrong too. Under excited utterance and
• 19:25
  Speaker 8: present sense impression it's coming in.
• 19:28
  Speaker 15: Where would it end? What if she would have said,
• 19:30
  Speaker 15: I saw a man in the house six years ago, shibuis,
• 19:33
  Speaker 15: but I happened to find my roommates deceased in their
• 19:35
  Speaker 15: bed today.
• 19:36
  Speaker 11: But that's not what she said.
• 19:37
  Speaker 15: No, but she said last night. So last night is
• 19:40
  Speaker 15: a scale fact. It's not a present No, it's not
• 19:42
  Speaker 15: sense impression.
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: How do you.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Figure him up? You are misleading the viewers.
• 19:48
  Speaker 8: Present tense present tense impression is what the speaker is saying.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: At that moment.
• 19:55
  Speaker 8: It doesn't matter if she's recounting something that happened eight
• 19:59
  Speaker 8: hours before, and when she says last night, that's something
• 20:03
  Speaker 8: she can be cross examined on.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what.
• 20:06
  Speaker 8: I'm not a betting person, but why don't we bet
• 20:09
  Speaker 8: right now on air?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: This nine on one will come in.
• 20:14
  Speaker 15: Of course it will because anything to stick it to
• 20:16
  Speaker 15: the defense, they're going to find tortured legal logic to
• 20:19
  Speaker 15: get it into evidence. Of course, that's what they're gonna do.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what I lost to someone with real.
• 20:25
  Speaker 8: Life experience and nine one calls Chris mcdonne and joining me.
• 20:28
  Speaker 8: Homicide detective worked over three hundred homicide cases plus, he
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: was advice.
• 20:34
  Speaker 11: You don't even want to know what he saw.
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: Advice, Chris, have you ever in your life and all
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: the cases you investigated, ever seeing the nine one one
• 20:44
  Speaker 8: call excluded from evidence, suppressed so the jury could not
• 20:48
  Speaker 8: hear it ever?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: One time?
• 20:50
  Speaker 10: No, and definitely not under these circumstances. I mean, your
• 20:54
  Speaker 10: point is right on target, Nancy, with you know, the
• 20:56
  Speaker 10: excited utterance here, it is the exception of the hearsay rule.
• 21:00
  Speaker 10: And remember we also have to keep the frame of
• 21:03
  Speaker 10: mind of the caller they are still thinking that their
• 21:07
  Speaker 10: friend is passed out drunk from the night before, and
• 21:11
  Speaker 10: the other person that grabbed the phone even started the
• 21:14
  Speaker 10: conversation with that. So that's the present tense when it starts.
• 21:33
  Speaker 8: In addition to the release in the past hours of
• 21:36
  Speaker 8: those very disturbing nine on one calls, which of course
• 21:40
  Speaker 8: the defense is trying to suppress, new cell phone data
• 21:44
  Speaker 8: released that indicates what the surviving roommates did before calling
• 21:50
  Speaker 8: nine to one one, And again the survivors have been
• 21:54
  Speaker 8: attacked viciously. The murders occurred around four am, and you
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: see the calls were made.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Much later mid morning.
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: Now we're getting a peak at what was happening in
• 22:09
  Speaker 8: those early morning hours around.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Four a m. So far and jump in Sydney if
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I got any of this wrong.
• 22:15
  Speaker 8: We know they were all out really late, some of
• 22:18
  Speaker 8: them in a group. They were at a food truck.
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: Remember at the beginning of the investigation. Let's see this
• 22:24
  Speaker 8: photo of them at the food truck. Because everybody at
• 22:29
  Speaker 8: that food truck and standing in the group fell under suspicion.
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: I recall there was a guy in the distance. All
• 22:37
  Speaker 8: these people were tracked down and questioned. See the guy
• 22:42
  Speaker 8: on the right kind of standing away. He was found,
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: he was everybody was found and questioned. So we know
• 22:52
  Speaker 8: they were at a food truck I believe, getting pasta
• 22:55
  Speaker 8: super super early.
• 22:58
  Speaker 11: In the morning.
• 22:58
  Speaker 8: I'm talking one, two, three. We know they went home.
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: We know some of them ordered like uber eats. These
• 23:08
  Speaker 8: are the last known images of some of the victims,
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: and this became an evidentiary football at the beginning of
• 23:20
  Speaker 8: the investigation, as LA law enforcement tried to track their
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: last movements and who they would have come in contact.
• 23:27
  Speaker 11: With they go home.
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: Then naysayers immediately began vilifying Dylan and Bethany because they
• 23:37
  Speaker 8: quote waited to call nine to one one. But I
• 23:40
  Speaker 8: want you to see the text conversation between Dylan and Bethany.
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: No one is answering.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I'm really confused right now.
• 23:49
  Speaker 12: Yeah, dude, what the Vanna was wearing all black?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I'm freaking out right now. No, it's like a ski mask.
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: Almost shut the fuck up.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Actually, like he had something over his forehead and mouth. Bethany,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not kidding.
• 24:02
  Speaker 11: I'm so freaked out.
• 24:04
  Speaker 12: So a mine, my phone is going to die, come
• 24:06
  Speaker 12: to my room, run down here. I'm screwed though, Yeah,
• 24:10
  Speaker 12: I know, but it's better than being alone.
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: Sidney Sumner joining me Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Sydney. Let's
• 24:16
  Speaker 8: put this into context. Of course, the cell phone data
• 24:19
  Speaker 8: experts are going to know exactly what time these texts
• 24:23
  Speaker 8: were going back and forth between them. Dylan Mortenson's phone
• 24:26
  Speaker 8: was dying and Bethany was trying to coax her to
• 24:31
  Speaker 8: run to her room. Can you imagine running from room
• 24:35
  Speaker 8: to room knowing that there's an intruder, or thinking there's
• 24:39
  Speaker 8: an intruder in the home. One and remember how the
• 24:43
  Speaker 8: girls were attacked because one opened the door and saw
• 24:46
  Speaker 8: who the state contends to be Brian Coburger standing there,
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: and we were all like, well, well not us, but
• 24:53
  Speaker 8: others were, well, why didn't she called my one?
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: One then seemingly attacking her.
• 25:00
  Speaker 8: Sure, tell me what you've gleaned about these text messages, Sidney, Nancy.
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: I think these text messages are between two terrified co
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: eds who don't know what's going on and have been
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: out all night partying, drinking. So unfortunately they are not
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: sober at this point, and their house is known to
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: have sometimes strangers in it. They throw parties often, they
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: have a lot of friends. There's five people living there,
• 25:30
  Speaker 7: So in terms of having a stranger in the house,
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: that's not super uncommon for them. And even if this
• 25:37
  Speaker 7: person was not somebody they recognized and fruit them out,
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: they might not immediately call nine to one one, not
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: knowing whether or not this is someone who is supposed
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: to be there at that point.
• 25:50
  Speaker 8: Okay, brace yourselves, Philip Dubay joining me, high profile lawyer
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: out of LA What would be the grounds? Okay, saggerate,
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: no hyperbolek just tell me what could possibly be the
• 26:04
  Speaker 8: grounds the defense will use to try and suppress these
• 26:08
  Speaker 8: text messages.
• 26:09
  Speaker 11: Philip Debay that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 15: It violates the rule of completeness. In other words, if
• 26:13
  Speaker 15: you don't have the complete textual context, and all you're
• 26:18
  Speaker 15: doing is just providing snippets, perhaps out of context, then
• 26:23
  Speaker 15: what it does is it has a tendency to mislead
• 26:25
  Speaker 15: the jury. So how you cure it is you allow
• 26:28
  Speaker 15: all the texts in their entirety to come in so
• 26:31
  Speaker 15: that the jury can read everything in harmony. Otherwise it
• 26:34
  Speaker 15: has a tendency to mislead the tryer effect, and it's
• 26:37
  Speaker 15: common not just with text messages. We see it where
• 26:40
  Speaker 15: prosecutors try to admit recorded statements of a defendant recorded
• 26:45
  Speaker 15: statements of a victim or of a witness, and in
• 26:48
  Speaker 15: order to have a thorough opportunity to cross examine on
• 26:51
  Speaker 15: each point, you need everything presented.
• 26:54
  Speaker 8: Oh oh, how I would love to try a case
• 26:59
  Speaker 8: I can to you and have you spout that out
• 27:04
  Speaker 8: in front of a judge, because.
• 27:06
  Speaker 11: The remedy for that is to say, fine.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: We'll play the whole thing.
• 27:10
  Speaker 8: Everybody, get comfy because it's about two hours here. We're
• 27:15
  Speaker 8: just showing the relevant portion of the text dubet. Other
• 27:21
  Speaker 8: text preceding this are talking about.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, where are we going to dinner? Where are you tonight?
• 27:25
  Speaker 11: Where are you tonight?
• 27:26
  Speaker 8: Let's go home, let's order uber each Do you want
• 27:28
  Speaker 8: noodles or do you want a hamburger?
• 27:30
  Speaker 16: Exactly?
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: We play the part about the attacks.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: But sure.
• 27:37
  Speaker 8: The answer to that is sure, be careful what you want,
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: my dear, for you will surely get it.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: The defense wants to hear the whole thing. I'm happy
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to play it with that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: Yes, noo, that make you happy, because that is the
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: rule of completeness. In other words, both sides get to
• 27:54
  Speaker 8: see the entire transcript, or hear the whole interview or
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: the whole phone call.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Whether it's relevant or not.
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: Would that would that playcate your completeness objection?
• 28:05
  Speaker 15: It would cure it. Remember it's a legal objection, it's not. Yeah,
• 28:10
  Speaker 15: of course it would.
• 28:11
  Speaker 17: So, yes, Okay, Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: How old is she breathing?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Close?
• 28:36
  Speaker 11: She breathing?
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: No?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: Stunningly, while we have seen the defense waffling, skidding.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Back and forth, what will be the defense now?
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: Believe it or not, the defense has emerged and it
• 28:51
  Speaker 8: is I was framed.
• 28:53
  Speaker 18: Listen well, still fighting to exclude the knife sheath DNA
• 28:56
  Speaker 18: evidence that was identified as Coburger through investigative genetic genielo.
• 29:00
  Speaker 18: It appears the defense will now claim that Coburger was
• 29:03
  Speaker 18: framed the knife sheath left behind by the real killer
• 29:06
  Speaker 18: to distract detectives. The state points out the defense's potential
• 29:09
  Speaker 18: argument in response to a sealed filing Prosecutors right that
• 29:13
  Speaker 18: the defense will try to convince a jury that the
• 29:15
  Speaker 18: sheath does not prove Coburger was ever at the crime scene.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Oh dear, have they launched onto my knife and gun?
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: Show theory that they would argue that Coburger had touched
• 29:26
  Speaker 8: the knife or the knife sheath and then someone else
• 29:29
  Speaker 8: I guess what was watching him and left it there
• 29:32
  Speaker 8: to frame him, framed by who Let me see that
• 29:35
  Speaker 8: smirky selfie where Coburger goes all Kim Komi. Wait a minute,
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: Sidney Sumner, do I see I'm seeing in this version?
• 29:47
  Speaker 8: Is that a window seal? Is that a window frame
• 29:51
  Speaker 8: to the right, or is that a shower curtain? Or
• 29:52
  Speaker 8: do we even know?
• 29:54
  Speaker 7: Nancy? We don't know for certain, but unfortunately, I do
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: personally think that is a shower. It's not a flat edge,
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: it's clearly foft, possibly hanging, and I can possibly barely
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: see a little hair of a shower curtain ring up
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: in that top right corner.
• 30:11
  Speaker 8: Sidney Summer, tell me about the cell phone data that
• 30:14
  Speaker 8: the defense is content. They're contending it right now, and
• 30:17
  Speaker 8: they're bringing on a so called expert to do so.
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy. So what the defense is claiming is that
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: once again the state has cherry picked what data they
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: want to include so that this cell phone data fits
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: their narrative that Coburger was at this house that night.
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: So FBI agent Nicholas Balance did some kind of analysis,
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: and they're claiming that he willfully chose things that helped
• 30:42
  Speaker 7: the state's case and left out exculpatory evidence. But they
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: don't know because he didn't file a complete report. So
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: defence is claiming they only sent over a PowerPoint that
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: they planned to use in court, and it doesn't tell
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: me anything about his methodology. So this testimony needs to
• 30:59
  Speaker 7: be blocked.
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: Todd Shipley joining me, digital cybercrime expert, former detective sergeant,
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: author of a new book, It's Amazing Surviving a cyber Attack,
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: Securing Social Media, Protecting Your Home. Is also author of
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: Investigating Internet Crimes, Solving Crimes in Cyberspace. You can find
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: them at dark Intel dot info. Todd, again, that's albs.
• 31:26
  Speaker 8: Because the defense has access to all of the same
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: data the state has, they can.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Generate their own report.
• 31:35
  Speaker 8: Instead of saying, exclude all of this because we don't
• 31:38
  Speaker 8: like the state's report.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: They can do their own report. What are they going
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: on about.
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: Well, that's exactly right, Nancy. I mean, they could go
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: over the data. If they've got the cell phone tower data,
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: they've got the data from the cell phones, they could
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: be doing the comparison themselves and making a report that
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: they were just trying to bring somebody into testify to,
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: you know, make it it looked like the prosecution witness
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: was not doing the right job. If they did a declaration,
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: they could lay out exactly what they think the facts
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: are that could be then refuted by the prosecution if
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: it's wrong. But they haven't done that. They're just arguing
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: that they want somebody to testify. So it's kind of
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: silly that they've done this. They could just bring forward
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: the facts and see what's wrong with it, and they
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: haven't done it.
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: Shipley, you have very carefully reviewed the facts in this case.
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: What do you believe the cell phone data calls and
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: isn't it true regarding these texts we were just playing
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: as well as the nine one one call. We're going
• 32:34
  Speaker 8: to be able to tell digitally exactly what time the
• 32:37
  Speaker 8: text went down and the calls.
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: Well exactly, I mean, we're the digital elevenist is going
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: to tell a very compelling story for everybody, For all
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: the people in the house where they were that night before,
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: the events that occurred at the truck, that they had
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: dinner at all those things are going to be telling
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: the story, including the suspect. His cell phone is going
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: to be telling a story. But it's not all evidence yet.
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: They've just released the pings of you know, where the
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: towers were that the suspect was, and that's damning, and
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: that's why the defense doesn't want to bring it in
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: because it's telling a story that they don't like, and
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: it's going to tell more of it because there's more
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: of the story. I mean, even your image is more
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: than the selfie there that's you know you're posting. It's
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: going to tell a story. The digital elevens, the metadata
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: in that image is going to tell a story and
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: all the other things he's done, because I'm sure that
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: he likes so many other you know, suspects have plotted
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: this out and there may be evidence from days or
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: weeks before where he went to that house. I don't
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: know that for a fact, but as they go through
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: the phone, they're going to be able to see the
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: story of his life in addition to what the victims was.
• 33:48
  Speaker 8: Joining us now Special guest doctor Kendall Crowns. He is
• 33:52
  Speaker 8: the chief medical Examiner Terrant County, that's Fort Worth, Texas
• 33:56
  Speaker 8: and a stained a lecturer at the Burnett School of
• 34:00
  Speaker 8: Medicine at TCU. Question, why is it that at first
• 34:07
  Speaker 8: the girl's thought that the victims were just passed out.
• 34:12
  Speaker 11: How could that be? They were stabbed multiple times, doctor cram.
• 34:16
  Speaker 16: So, depending on where an individual is stabbed, they may
• 34:19
  Speaker 16: not actually bleed outside of their body. They'll bleed internally.
• 34:22
  Speaker 16: Usually like with sucking chest wounds, the blood will bleed
• 34:25
  Speaker 16: into your chest cavity. Blood may bleed into the abdominal cavity.
• 34:29
  Speaker 16: So if their wounds were in certain locations, there may
• 34:33
  Speaker 16: not have been any real blood that was outside of
• 34:35
  Speaker 16: the body, and so it wouldn't be soaking into their
• 34:37
  Speaker 16: clothes and they could look like they were just passed
• 34:40
  Speaker 16: out and laying there. And that would be my best
• 34:44
  Speaker 16: opinion on that.
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: You know, another thing, Doctor Kenell Crown's i'mcoming at this
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: from an evidentiary point of view. Have attacked the girls
• 34:50
  Speaker 8: because they say the witnesses the survivors, because they say, what,
• 34:54
  Speaker 8: you didn't hear anything, Well, actually they did hear something,
• 35:01
  Speaker 8: Sidney Sumner, investigative reporter. They heard someone moan or cry out,
• 35:07
  Speaker 8: They heard thumping up and down the stairs.
• 35:10
  Speaker 11: Correct.
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: Yeah, at one point the girls even came out of
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: their room to ask them to be quiet. So at
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: this way they didn't realize anything was a miss. They
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: thought their roommates had come home and we're still being
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: rowdy from their plans earlier that night, and we're asking
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: them to stop and to be quiet. They definitely heard
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: some promotion, you know, doctor Kindle Crowns.
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: Those attacking the two survivors are screaming. Well, why didn't
• 35:39
  Speaker 8: you hear the victims screaming? And why didn't you call
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: Nima one earlier, Doctor Kendall Crowns. In our world, the
• 35:46
  Speaker 8: way we live, for instance, if you hear a gunshot,
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: you may go, oh, who's setting off firecrackers? Because it's
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: not in your realm of understanding. You don't have your
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: arms around the fact somebody could be shot down the street,
• 35:59
  Speaker 8: or you might think it's a car backfiring. I've seen
• 36:02
  Speaker 8: many cases many were witnesses hear something but they don't
• 36:06
  Speaker 8: realize a murder is occurring.
• 36:08
  Speaker 11: What could the girls.
• 36:10
  Speaker 16: Have heard, So you're right, it's all kind of context.
• 36:14
  Speaker 16: You have to have an idea of what's going on.
• 36:17
  Speaker 16: You may think that something else is occurring when it's
• 36:20
  Speaker 16: actually a murder. What they could have heard is yelling, screaming,
• 36:23
  Speaker 16: things being knocked over, kind of bumping around. But the
• 36:27
  Speaker 16: same thing could be heard in people that are drunk
• 36:29
  Speaker 16: or having you know, a good time, or jumping around
• 36:33
  Speaker 16: or dancing, you could mistaken that.
• 36:35
  Speaker 11: Philip d.
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: Bay All argument between us aside, you're a veteran defense attorney.
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: How will the defense attack Dylan and Bethany for not
• 36:48
  Speaker 8: hearing for murders when they clearly did hear something but
• 36:51
  Speaker 8: they didn't know what they were hearing.
• 36:52
  Speaker 15: Yeah, that they were on an all night bender, that
• 36:55
  Speaker 15: they had been drinking, that they were likely hungover, that
• 36:59
  Speaker 15: they're perceptions and their ability to recall were compromised by
• 37:03
  Speaker 15: being impaired from the effects of alcohol, and who knows,
• 37:07
  Speaker 15: maybe if they smoked something. I don't know. But the
• 37:10
  Speaker 15: whole idea of being a reliable witness when you take
• 37:15
  Speaker 15: the oath is that your ability to observe, recall and
• 37:18
  Speaker 15: to perceive is not compromised by outside intoxicans or other
• 37:23
  Speaker 15: types of interference. And I think if you can establish that,
• 37:27
  Speaker 15: maybe at a pre trial hearing, a judge can find
• 37:30
  Speaker 15: that they're incompetent to testify as a witness.
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: Doctor Anthony Marshall, these girls have a tough time ahead
• 37:38
  Speaker 8: on cross exam, and I hate what's going to happen,
• 37:41
  Speaker 8: but they've got to take the.
• 37:43
  Speaker 11: Stand, Nancy.
• 37:43
  Speaker 12: They have to take this down. But what I'm concerned
• 37:45
  Speaker 12: about is that they're going to be re traumatized. They
• 37:49
  Speaker 12: have already gone over that night over and over again
• 37:51
  Speaker 12: in their minds, and when we have post traumatic stress disorder,
• 37:55
  Speaker 12: we have something called flashbacks. I hope some psychologists or
• 37:58
  Speaker 12: somebody is there to prepare these young people to be
• 38:03
  Speaker 12: on the stand because they will be cruelly resubjected to
• 38:07
  Speaker 12: the same physiological, arousal, intrusive thoughts and anxiety that they
• 38:13
  Speaker 12: had on the night.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Of the murders.
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: I just wish I could take this away from them,
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: but they're going to have to take the stand. We
• 38:20
  Speaker 8: wait as justice unfolds. And now we remember an American hero,
• 38:24
  Speaker 8: senior police officer, Alexander Yazzi, Navajo Division Public Safety Tribal
• 38:29
  Speaker 8: police shot and killed in a line of duty, a
• 38:33
  Speaker 8: US Marine Corps that served fourteen years with Elie. Survived
• 38:38
  Speaker 8: by wife now widow, Kathleen. American hero senior police officer
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: Alexander Yazzi. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,