Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / RELOADED EP311 | Mossy Oak: The Past, The Present, The Partnership.

Transcript

RELOADED EP311 | Mossy Oak: The Past, The Present, The Partnership. · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• 0:03
  VO: Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, Reloaded. We bring you the best of our past episodes. Whether you're a seasoned waterfowler or curious about conservation, this series is for you. Over the years, we've had incredible guests and discussions about everything from wetland conservation to the latest waterfowl research and hunting strategies. In Reloaded, we're revisiting those conversations to keep the passion alive and the mission strong.
• 0:28
  So sit back, relax, and enjoy this reload.
• 0:36
  Chris Jennings: Joining us today is a great partner of Ducks Unlimited. We have Daniel Hayes and Neil Hayes from Mossy Oak. Hey, guys. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast.
• 0:44
  Daniel Hayes: Thank you for having for having us.
• 0:46
  Chris Jennings: We'll get this thing kicked off, and we'll do this the same way that we do a lot of shows. I want you guys to kind of tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into Mossy Oak, you know, what you guys do at Mossy Oak, where is Mossy Oak located, You know, where you guys live, where you guys hunt, everything like that. So, Daniel, can you go ahead and start us with that?
• 1:03
  Neil Hayes: Yeah. And Neil and I are twins. And since we have such a a strong history between Mossy Oak and dad and our granddad and outdoors in general. Pretty much our entire lives are kinda charted alongside each other with all of our memories hunting and growing up and, you know, where family's really important to us. So all of our memories, me and Neil, are inseparable for most of our lives even now, especially duck hunting, sharing a blind with each other, shooting in the woods.
• 1:30
  So but, yeah, you know, we both grown up in West Point, went to Mississippi State fifteen minutes from from West Point. Campus is is close by the office. Our parents, grandparents, everybody went there, and then we're, you know, right after that back at at Malsy Oak. And and ever since then, we've just been working for Malsy and taking on all sorts of different projects that fall under the brand.
• 1:57
  Chris Jennings: No. That's awesome. And, Neil, how about you?
• 2:00
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. Kind of echoing what Daniel said. You know, we've we've grown up. You know, we had great influences growing up with our granddad and our dad really teaching us a lot about not only hunting, but conservation and woodsmanship and taking care of the resource and all that kind of stuff. And so it gives us good appreciation from a young age, and, you know, hopefully, you know, we'll teach our kids the same, and, that's kinda what keeps all this around for everyone, and you guys know that better than anyone.
• 2:26
  But yeah, we're just we're big on conservation and anything we can do to help the resource. And so we do a ton of work, and that's why I think Mossy Oak and Ducks Unlimited are such great partners, just because they believe in a lot of the same things.
• 2:41
  Chris Jennings: Absolutely. Let's kinda discuss before we started the show, we had a brief conversation to really get into the story of Mossy Oak. You know, it's such a big brand, but but I don't know which one of you wants to take this on, but, you know, how did how did this start? How did the entire brand start?
• 3:00
  Daniel Hayes: I'll let Daniel kick us off with this one. He's a pretty good storyteller.
• 3:03
  Chris Jennings: There you go.
• 3:05
  Neil Hayes: Yeah. Neil and I could both take this one. It's enjoyable to to tell and to think about even though we weren't around for the early days. Our granddad, Pawpaw, as everybody else knows him as as mister Fox, but he is from Mobile, Alabama. And so he grew up down there.
• 3:19
  And a lot of our family on his side of the family is from South Alabama. And so some of our old family friends had a an old hunting club called Choctaw Bluff that Neil could give into the history a lot more there of Choctaw Bluff. But because of of papa hunting there when dad was old enough to hunt, he spent a lot of his life. My granddad ended up coming State and building a life in West Point with my grandmother, and so that's how Boss Oak ended up being tied to this area, but he never left his roots to Choctaw Bluff and hunting with his original hunting buddies. What papa cared more about than anything back then was turkey hunting.
• 3:51
  And so he would take my dad turkey hunting down there and they had the hunting club broken into a lot of different territories and there was an area that had a tree on it that was kind of a a meeting point because it was an oak mix in the middle of a bunch of ponds, so it was an easy identification. So, you know, made it to moss yoke tree. So if you're hunting in the area where the moss yoke was, it was a common commonly known tree that you could use as a as a meet up point. So when dad was, you know, he was hunting with with top ball turkey hunting every spring and getting frustrated at the the lack of mobility that his camouflage offered him because back then, you know, it had been some kinda grimy looking military camo that really stuck out like a sore thumb in in South Alabama and build these intricate blinds to try to you know, you pretty much have to be confined to one tree and that doesn't really work out too well if you're turkey hunting as as anybody who turkey hunting knows. So dad was so frustrated that there wasn't a simple solution because he just knew that if you had clothes on your back that resembled the area that you're hunting or looked like the tree that you were trying to sit up against, that you could you wouldn't make a find on one tree.
• 4:56
  You could, you know, chase turkey turkey around the woods and and become invisible no matter where you were. So that kinda was the initial idea for for Maltese Oak and Bottomland as everybody knows the original pattern. The inspiration for it wasn't, you know, all sorts of companies pop up left and right and, you know, somebody might just think they see an opportunity to sell a camouflaged t shirt or a shirt or jacket or whatever it is for profit and turn it into a business and and make a living. But dad's, genuinely, he was just trying to figure out a a way to better hide from turkeys.
• 5:27
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. Just kind of like innovation due to necessity right there. You know, he was just trying to kill a turkey, and that's awesome.
• 5:34
  Neil Hayes: That is exactly right. So, yeah, so anyway, he he literally got a handful of dirt, sticks, and leaves in a ziplock bag and went to work with a designer and a and a textile mill to try to figure out how to match up the and we have the if next time y'all are in West Point, you can come see it. But we've got, you know, some of the original garments and the original cotton and the even the Pantone colors and the original sketches of of Bottomland with dad trying to figure out, you know, how to how to get the colors matched up perfectly with what he envisioned in his head. And when they kicked around names for the company trying to figure out what they were gonna call it, they they probably some some ones that wouldn't have aged quite as well trying to figure out what to call it and and they eventually between dad and papa, riding the dirt roads down there, the name Moss Yoke just kinda popped in their heads and, you know, it was a perfect name. So it stuck and everybody loved it and and luckily, we I don't know that this name was actually kicked around, but everybody jokes that they were telling him to call it Invisiflodge or some other goofy name like that.
• 6:34
  And thankfully for for everyone involved.
• 6:37
  Daniel Hayes: Thank thank thank goodness that never happened.
• 6:39
  Neil Hayes: Yeah. That didn't happen, and and Mossy Oak, it, you know, it it was an instant classic, and and we think it's a great name still to this day.
• 6:47
  Daniel Hayes: You know, when dad was able to get that first roll of fabric printed and everything, my grandmother, our grandmother is a very, very good expert sewer, and so she sewed all the clothes together in the first early days. She sewed everything in her attic, and I'm sorry, have my duck hunting dog in the room with me.
• 7:05
  Chris Jennings: No, it's perfect.
• 7:06
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. I figured I would add add a little bit of a know, to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, have a duck dog, but but, yeah, that that's part of the, you know, cool story is, you know, for the first couple years, you know, they're, you know, taking phone calls from the house line and selling the clothes in the attic and don't even have enough money saved up yet to buy an office space or anything like that. It really was a built from the ground up type company out of nowhere, so it's a pretty cool success story from doing something that everyone told you that was kinda stupid and wouldn't work, and it was kinda you know, just a silly idea kinda thing.
• 7:38
  Chris Jennings: No. That's great, and it's a cool story, and I and I and I've I've heard some of that or or or read most of it, but I'm sure that our audience did not know. But it it's also cool when you sit there and you look at the logo. You know, the company logo truly is like, you know, that mossy oak. And and my only question there, is that tree still standing?
• 7:57
  Do you guys, like, own that property now or that that one mossy oak?
• 8:01
  Daniel Hayes: No. It's so the hunting club is is owned by kinda one family, and a lot of it's leased ground and stuff like that. But it's a really I mean, the hunting club was started in the nineteen twenties. It's one of the oldest turkey hunting clubs in North America. Maybe the oldest, I'm not sure.
• 8:17
  But tree actually got struck by lightning probably fifteen years ago, something like, maybe longer. But the family that owns the property was able to salvage a bunch of the wood and get it cut into a bunch of boards. And the last 15 or so, we've been able to make some pretty cool, making duck calls and turkey calls and things of that nature out of the wood. So we've been able to use the wood from the tree in some pretty cool projects.
• 8:43
  Chris Jennings: Man, that's cool. That's kinda like the natural story. You can make a baseball bat out of it or something.
• 8:48
  Neil Hayes: Yeah. No. Our our if we had more of the wood, we would have had everything under the sun made from it, and a baseball bat would have been one of those things. But, you know, luckily, we've been able to make some you know, we've had turkey calls, crow calls, knife handles, duck calls, a bunch of really really cool things made. Obviously, not for sale.
• 9:06
  Yeah. Short of a few, you know, auctions that we've used. You know, we've got our local auction that raises money for Saint Jude and Catch a Dream, and then we've done some stuff with the NWTF. It would probably have something that would make sense for a waterfowl project in the future. But, yeah, those are those are made for family, friends, and people in our immediate family and that have been around Moss Yoke forever and and whatnot, but there have been some some really cool things.
• 9:30
  And I'll I'll give the short version of of this story, but we actually the most obscure part of that, you know, what we've made with the Mossy Oak wood, but that is also one of the coolest because it's the only one that you're able to share with somebody is we made a barrel of whiskey with Jefferson Reserve in Trey Zeller up there in Kentucky. Mhmm. And, you know, we we don't we wouldn't have I always assumed, like, Woodford has a double oaked whiskey, and I never I was didn't know anything about that process, and I assumed it had something to do with the barrel, and, know, we don't have enough wood left now to even make a stave, let alone a whole barrel. But we ended up talking to them and they have just kinda like a finishing process where they can char little pieces of oak and they can take an already, you know, eight or ten year old barrel of bourbon and steep some wood in there that's you know, they know the temperature and the the surface area and the type of wood to bring out certain flavors and all that kind of stuff.
• 10:22
  So they charred some of the moss wood, took a barrel of Jefferson's that had already been aching nine or ten years, and then finished it with the mossier wood in there for another about a year and a half. And then a few Christmases back, we had that barrel bottled for some family friends and
• 10:37
  Daniel Hayes: some people
• 10:37
  Neil Hayes: close to us. And, you know, all the other things that we've made with the wood are really cool, but they're, you know, it's just one very tangible, you know, call or whatever it is that that you own. But the the bourbon is extremely cool because if somebody's in camp with us, you know, we can share glass and you're literally drinking a small piece of history Yeah. With the mossier wood there. So that is is one of the coolest things that we've done with it.
• 11:00
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. That is really cool. Now I know that you guys are both diehard duck hunters. Do either one of you have a call from the wood?
• 11:08
  Daniel Hayes: We do, yes. We both yeah, and some people in the family decided to put theirs up on a shelf, but I put mine, I don't really blow it much, but I put it on my lanyard, it goes with me everywhere I go. So it's a little beat up from some of the rough you know, I've been known to go the extra mile and go through briar patches and and bug brush and whatever I have to go through to get to where I need to duck hunt. So I beat my gear up pretty good, and so my call is probably not as in good shape as most people does, but yeah, I take mine everywhere I go.
• 11:41
  Neil Hayes: Luckily, the you know, we we had a pretty we were able to salvage a decent amount of wood at first, so we were able to we didn't have to be stingy with, you know, everyone in the family got a duck call, everyone in the family got a a turkey call and and whatnot. We're not making any more of that wood. It's gotta gotta stay around forever, so the last little bit we've got left, we're very, very protective of.
• 11:58
  Chris Jennings: I'll bet. That's pretty cool. And that's I mean, that just brings that that story kinda full circle where you have something in your hand from that tree, and and that that's just cool. You know, so the entire company was kinda based from a turkey hunting perspective, but do you guys consider yourselves maybe more duck hunters or turkey hunters?
• 12:19
  Daniel Hayes: I would say both. You know, Daniel is probably the same way, and our dad's the same way, and we we all love to deer hunt, but duck hunting and turkey hunting are definitely our biggest passions. And, you know, dad grew up you know, we always say, you know, he grew up and designed the camo to hide some turkeys and all that, but he grew up duck hunting on those same river bottoms that he was shooting turkeys in and, you know, mostly shooting wood ducks. But, you know, he grew up duck duck hunting a lot and was a very avid duck hunter from an early age, and as as was our grandfather. So, yeah, they they definitely know, he's been both of them have been duck hunting their entire lives.
• 12:49
  But the the hiding from turkeys is kinda what sparked the idea, but then it grew into, obviously, hiding from all all animals and nature.
• 12:56
  Neil Hayes: And like Neil said, yeah, turkey and turkey and ducks kinda always are our two favorite things to hunt. And as anyone knows, it's warm bottomland and and flooded timber. The the necessity of developing that camouflage pattern originated with turkeys, but because of the area that he was hunting in, the habitat that he was hunting in, it's stood the test of time. It's probably the most versatile camouflage pattern for hunting that's ever been created because it does work so well whether you're duck hunting or turkey hunting and and and a lot of areas deer hunting too. It's just such a good pattern and and especially nowadays, it's become timeless because you got a whole different new generation that didn't grow up with it, but that has been introduced to it now.
• 13:33
  And, you know, you it might have been developed in 1986, but now you can find anybody from a a teenager to someone who's been hunting their their whole life and as an old man wearing it. So I think it's it's it's pretty cool to see the kinda like generational span of of people that love to wear bottomland, whether they're duck hunting or turkey hunting or deer or anything.
• 13:51
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. No. I mean, bottomland's so popular, and and that that kinda leads me to my next question, and and and I don't know if you guys have a good I'm sure you guys have talked about this, but kind of the original bottomland kinda had a resurgence, you know, recently in well, not too recently, but, you know, how did you guys see that or or or even your dad? It's like, you know, was that just like more vindication for that pattern when this kind of resurgence of the original bottom line?
• 14:16
  Daniel Hayes: It it started really at Daniel and myself and, a small group of friends, and really buying stuff, people would start selling stuff on eBay, and a small group of people just would really love Bottom Lane. You couldn't buy it anywhere. It have kind of been discontinued, and and people were starting to pay, you know, crazy amounts for certain products in Bottomland, old vintage clothes and stuff like hats or whatever. And, you know, we started seeing people paying, you know, five, six, seven times what what it was originally purchased for on eBay, and we're like, well, you know, all this attention, all these people paying, you know, all this money for bottom line, we should probably consider bringing it back. And so that's kinda where bringing it back started was just all the attention it was getting on, you know, eBay and stuff like that.
• 14:56
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. So and I'm just gonna assume that you guys probably just answered this question, but but what is each of you, do you guys have, like, a a specific pattern that you prefer over any other of all Mossy Oak patterns?
• 15:11
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. Probably bottomland. I mean, you're you're rarely gonna I mean, we we love all the patterns, you know, like, especially, you know, turkey hunting, you know, definitely love obsession and green leaf and some of those patterns, and duck hunting love, you know, the shadow grass patterns and all that. But, you know, most nine times out of 10, if we're hunting somewhere, we're standing next to a tree, so we usually have bottom land on.
• 15:34
  Neil Hayes: Yeah. And, you know, we've we've got a lot of of different patterns that have stood the test of time, and shatter grass is obviously a a phenomenal pattern that was introduced in the nineties. And the newer iterations of that with Shattergrass blades and Shattergrass habitat, you know, those are those are awesome patterns. But the connection to the family and the history of Molson Oak and the places that we hunt and all the the, you know, old jackets we've stolen from papa and dad out of their closets and and all the good stuff like that. But putting on bottom line and and going to do whatever kinda hunting you're hitting the woods for is it just you know, we've got a lot of old garments and and stuff that just feels like an old friend and especially the stuff that was passed down that we stole from papa or dad and a lot of that old history is just, like, embodied in bottomland.
• 16:19
  And some of the other original patterns, you know, bottomland's like the greatest hit, but and a lot of people love green leaf in early season deer hunting and especially turkey hunting. But they it kind of, you know, bottomland is always there. It's an absolute classic and it's timeless, but there's a lot of those vintage patterns that maybe you're more obscure. And, you know, most people are aware of green leaf and tree stand and the original shadow grass pattern, but then you've got some of the, you know, full foliage and fall foliage that were part of that first four, five, six years of of camouflage that not as many people know about that if you have an old jacket or a shirt or or whatever, they're pretty cool patterns, and there's not as much clothing to go around with those on them because they haven't been reintroduced from the archives. But, yeah, we've got a lot of obscure patterns to choose from in the archives too.
• 17:06
  Chris Jennings: No. That's cool, and I know I was pretty excited to see, you know, the original shadow grass kind of made an that's what I, you know, started hunting in the nineties, early to mid nineties when I started duck hunting, and that in in growing up in Indiana, I I felt like shadow grass had a had a really strong foothold there rather than bottom ones because we're not we don't hunt like flooded timber, you know, like duck hunting. We're more it's a much more variable habitat. So, you know, I was a big guy, you know, big fan of Shadow Grass, the original, and then you guys brought that back out with Filson a couple years ago, and that was that was just so cool. I mean, I was even getting emails because I think we ran a couple of the products in the magazine, and I got a bunch of emails from people like, hey, man.
• 17:49
  When's that gonna be available? You know? Even some buddies that I grew up hunting with because we thought shadow grass was just like the most awesome thing ever, and some guys I grew up hunting with were like, oh, do you have one of those?
• 17:58
  Neil Hayes: Like, that
• 17:58
  Chris Jennings: is so cool. So that that's that's all kind of a an interesting aspect to the Mossy Oak story is how, you know, these patterns have stood the test of time and and continue to be brought back to the forefront and by by fans. I mean, I guess I guess that's a way to to describe, you know, fans of the pattern. Know, You we can probably get into all the different patterns and and talk like that forever, but, you know, one thing I wanted to ask you guys is Mossy Oak, you know, you described the history of the, you know, of the company, of the brand, even the garments, but, you know, you guys have grown from just, you know, what you're describing, you know, sewing your grandmother sewing in the attic to, you know, almost like a a massive media company. How has that transitioned within the company?
• 18:45
  You know, you know, you're a camouflage company, but, you know, that that now that you guys have Mossy Oak Go, you have, you know, multiple companies underneath Mossy Oak, how has that transition been, and how did that kinda get rolling?
• 19:00
  Neil Hayes: I think you have to go way back to get to the origins of that, but even even before that, if you're talking about all that mossier has grown into, you you have to start with, you know, at some point in the nineties, the the first few years of the company, it was all camouflaging. Like Neil said, my grandmother sewn garments in her sewn room attic, and Papa answered the phone for the +1 800 number, and and they were running and gunning with just a few of them for the early days. And then the first evolution of all senior pest camouflage was what probably most people aren't aware of unless you're part of the eBay group that Neil was talking about, but or you have some of your your dad's old shirts. But a lot of people consider the greatest button down shirts ever made were part of the moss yoke companions line. And that was the first beyond camouflage, Molstowe's first step into casual clothing, you know, heavyweight, shammy shirts, lightweight, really soft brushed cotton shirts, and a few jackets, work pants, and and things like that.
• 19:54
  And it was all under the Molstowe Companions brand name. And it was dad's slogan that he used for it was instant old friends. And it was, you know, the thing that embodies the identity of an instant old friend, whether it's the first twenty four hours you spend with a new duck dog or a night in camp with somebody who's like minded to you, you know, cooking and drinking and listening to music and sharing it blind with each other. And then the way that your favorite jacket feels when you pull it out the closet, he wanted to replicate that through, you know, the first time you take it off the coat hanger. It feels like the your your new favorite shirt.
• 20:24
  Companions was the first foray in, you know, beyond camouflage, making casual wear, and it was all, you know, let what that has stayed true to even to this day that's god at everything we do is and the reason I'm talking about it is he was obsessed with this idea that everything we do is guided by mother nature and the critters and wildlife and the land. And so he wanted the the clothing to be developed with a color palette of, you know, was all dirt sticks, leaf, bark, leaf, kind of, you know, same colors that you would find in the first patterns that are all the vintage patterns that you see now. And then a few years past that, there was dad tells a story, I'm probably gonna butcher part of it, but there was a really there was a really warm winter and it was like a bunch of them. The big sporting goods retailers for Honey Brands and apparel had a had a tough winter, and everybody was kinda freaking out. And it kind of inspired dad to, you know, think a little more deeply about just the apparel that we're selling, and, he started thinking more about the, you know, if it it weren't for the critter, we wouldn't have anything to hunt.
• 21:24
  And if it weren't for the land that that provides habitat and and a home for the for the critters, then the critters wouldn't be here and we wouldn't be here. And he he's always been obsessed and has been instilled through my granddad and my grandmom too of of this obsession with outdoors and the the wildlife and the and the dirt. But he from a mulched area perspective, really started thinking a lot more deeply about that in the nineties. And of the first things that we did that branch out beyond, you know, clothing were biologic and Malteseo properties and Malteseo native nurseries and the things that have kinda grown into what we call the gamekeeper brands. So for people not familiar, Volsia Properties just started a little over twenty years ago now to provide, you know, a real estate franchise model and brand for for people that are, you know, just like us.
• 22:12
  If you're looking for hunt land or recreational ag, timberland, whatever, things that the average, for lack of a better term, somebody that that lives in a concrete jungle. If you're trying to buy a piece of hunt land, you'd rather take it from a hunter than you would from somebody who's who's never been outside the city. And and that kinda is where Molshear Properties originated, and that was born out of this obsession for the land and taking care of it and having authentic people who are gonna who to be the actual ones that are, you know, leading that conversation. And then Maltzier Biologic, again, really natural, but it was on the probably the the first really big company to to think more about wildlife nutrition. And now, you know, you can you can buy forage and and seed for for any animal that we that we hunt, whether it's planting wildflowers and or if it's, you know, things you wanna plant for ducks, deer, turkeys, and and all that good stuff.
• 23:03
  But that started really naturally too, thinking about the critters and, you know, what they eat and all these back then kind of bogus people feeding whitetail and and turkey and duck and whatever. People didn't really think that much about it. They would kinda treat it like anybody would treat, you know, their cattle farm or whatever. And so they they were just sort of thinking there has to be a better way that's more nutritional that puts the critter first instead of just kinda saying, oh, we're gonna follow these best practices for a cattle farm and and call it a day. And then multi ignitive nurseries is our probably, I would say, most obscured of all those.
• 23:33
  If you haven't actually been to West Point or or you're not a, yeah, a tree guy, you might not be aware of it, but that was mine and Neil's first summer jobs when we were in high school. Was working at our tree nursery and pulling weeds and planting acorns and and gathering acorns from our favorite different trees around around town with dad and a guy named Dudley Phelps, who's like our local tree guru. But the nursery was our, you know, the next kind of these little things that pop up naturally that are things that dad's obsessed with that are it's none of none of these things are dad sitting down at night thinking, what can I do to make more money? They're all natural obsessions that are like, okay. My mom literally walked outside the backyard one day and saw a thousand trees growing from seedlings stacked up in the corner by the the fishing pond, and she's like, alright.
• 24:19
  You gotta do something about this. We're we can't our backyard can't be overtaking all these acorns that that you keep gathering up. So the the nursery started out of necessity with that. You know, now we've even got we've got Gamekeepers as I mentioned, and we publish, you know, before stewardship became a a buzzword outside the hunting world, the Gamekeeper Magazine, Journal for Wildlife Stewardship has been published quarterly for a decade providing, you know, habitat tips and and ways to improve your your hunting property whether you got a lease or you own a bunch of land or whatever it is. These really manageable, accessible projects that you can do to make your little piece of dirt better.
• 24:57
  And now we've even got a dog kennel and we breed multi year kennels, breeds, British labs for, all sorts of things. Obviously, labs are great family dogs, but primarily for duck hunting. And it's it's it's all just kinda grown, you know, the well is this obsession with the critters and the and the dirt that Papa and dad have kind of instilled in in our family, and and everything that dad does kind of is generated from that.
• 25:20
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. No. It's awesome. And and, you know, just kinda you you kinda ran down the list, and I think that really that really provides our listeners, you know, an idea of the the breadth of of mossy oak, and it's really cool. Like you said, it all stems each one of these stems from, you know, what I would consider, like, you know, like the habitat, you know, the in in in the animals, the wildlife, the habitat, and it all kinda leads back to a real conservation ethic.
• 25:47
  One more that I wanted to ask you about, and and it's Mossy Oak Wellness. You know, where did that kind of come from, and, you know, how involved with that are are you guys?
• 25:57
  Neil Hayes: Yeah. There's there's some other some other people in the company that are more hands on with that than than I am, but that's a that's another cool, you know, new piece of Maltz Yoke that is, you know, just a little more focused on it's right now just to treat mixes, hopefully, we'll grow into some other things that that are they're helpful for people for people that are living their life outside, you know, having some little pieces of of of that life to to take with them and continue to build out this kinda all encompassing anything you do outside, having Mossy Oak be a part of it kinda mentality.
• 26:31
  Chris Jennings: Very cool. You know, a couple more things that I wanted to talk to you guys about, but, you know, you kinda hit on the Mossy Oak kennels, but I know both of you guys have, you know, I'm assuming both of you guys well, you both said you have your dogs in your office, so you guys do, but are you guys, you know, more hands on? Which one of you is probably the most hands on, like, retriever trainer?
• 26:49
  Daniel Hayes: Probably myself. But, yeah.
• 26:53
  Neil Hayes: Neil, I have to cut in and say Neil's also blessed with Timbo, who is one of the greatest duck dogs that any of us have ever hunted with. So while he might be a little better trainer than than I am, he's also blessed with the the best dog in town.
• 27:07
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. Some some would say that a dog is only as good as his trainer as well, so no. I'm I'm joking. Timbo's Timbo was blessed with great genes. And, you know, so what kinda started the kennel thing is, know, growing up, was just a you know, I wanted my own dog.
• 27:20
  My dad had dogs growing up, but, you know, I never had a dog that was my own, and I asked for every Easter, Christmas, birthday, whatever it may have been from when I was 10 years old till, you know, high school. Always wanted to dog moan, always wanted to dog moan, and dad always said, Well, you won't be able to handle responsibility. You're too young. And so finally, he got me a dog when I was, like, 16. He got me a black lab, a British lab, and his name was Jake, and that kinda started.
• 27:45
  He was an unbelievable dog, the whole family loved him, was a family dog, and that kind of sparked our obsession with British Lab specifically, but just seeing how great a dog they were. And so from that really is where the kennel was kinda originated, kinda breeding and selling British labs. And anyway, Timbo is the son of Jake, so Jake was my first dog, Timbo's been my second dog, and both are more phenomenal dogs. Yeah, I think you know, everybody loves to duck hunt, but, you know, anybody that has a dog will tell you that, you know, it's just not as much fun without a dog. It just adds that whole dynamic.
• 28:22
  And, you know, I do a lot of times, and I'm sure a lot of people do this, but I duck hunt, you know, four or five times a year. I'll just go out, just me and Timbo. We'll go way off into the back of the swamp and win an Argo or a boat or something, and we'll, you know, we'll just go kill, you know, try to kill, scratch out a limited ducks, just me and him. And, you know, I love hunting with friends, turkey hunting and duck hunting specifically, but, you know, there's a really cool thing about just hunting with you and a dog, just, you know, by yourselves out in the woods, and nobody's talking, it's just completely quiet. So anyway, a few times a year, I love just, you know, Timbo and I just striking out through the woods and seeing if we can't bring back a few ducks.
• 29:07
  VO: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
• 29:24
  Chris Jennings: What would you consider to be, like, you know, your best duck hunting moment or, you know, kinda like Neil explained, like, that's something that he really looks forward to. But but, Daniel, for you, like, what makes duck hunting so special to you?
• 29:38
  Neil Hayes: My answer is pretty similar to Neil now that, you know, Neil just had his first son, Toxie Junior, and I just got engaged a week ago, but I don't have kids yet. So our our kids is and and, you know, baby baby Toxie is not a year old yet, so our dogs are our you know, every single person that we know and and everybody that takes their kids hunting, they they all it's like your life has changed, and you've got a whole different, you know, motivation to get out there and and make it good and share with your kids and all that kind of stuff. But for now, yeah, with Neil. And I've I gotta mention just be remiss forgetting it, but with the kennels, Bill Gibson, who's our multi x director of Gundog app operations, which I think we're probably the only outdoor brand that has that job title. But the kennels are actually in my backyard, and Neil, before he got married, lived in that house with me.
• 30:28
  So we both spend a lot of time around all the dogs because we can hear them barking every second of the day, 200 yards from our our backyard. So we're we're back there all the time. Bill Gibson is my dad's next door neighbor. And so for years, he would he bred dogs in the backyard and him and dad would go train dogs in the backyard in their in their fishing pond back there. So that came about really naturally from from them.
• 30:49
  But, yeah, I would back to me personally hunting. You know, we we're really, really lucky that we live in in West Point, which if you haven't been here, it's a very small town right outside of Starkville where Mississippi State is. And all of our families' hunt land that we've grown up with is is right here on the edge of town. So, you know, we can we can get duck hunting, stay at the cabin, wake up, go duck hunting with the dogs, and stroll into the office, barely lay for work with, you know, barefoot, leave the waiters in the bed of the truck, and and walk right in. So we're we're really lucky that our duck hunting is really accessible and, you know, do all in thanks to to dad because, obviously, East Mississippi over here, we're we're Northeast.
• 31:32
  We're not in the natural flyaway, so it's really, really important for us more so than maybe areas that are in the direct flyaway to to have a lot of food and and imprint on these ducks and give them a reason to come back. And, you know, luckily, since we've been in kindergarten and not old enough to to know that ducks have to eat anything, dad's been worried about habitat and having food for for ducks to be able to count on, having a little sanctuary set aside that he can plant every year, we don't hunt, and we know that the ducks can almost treat it like a little reservoir. And luckily, the whole time we were growing up, dad was year after year after year just obsessed with with ducks and getting them back every single year and and giving them a reason outside of the main flyway to to stop through on the edge of West Point, Mississippi and give us give us a little something to hunt. So our standards for a good hunt might not be the same as somebody who's hunting some famous duck area in the Delta in Arkansas or whatever.
• 32:28
  But luckily, I I wouldn't trade it for the for being lucky enough to hunt twenty minutes from office and and stroll back in in our small town here. Being able to get out there a lot with our with our dogs. One one piece of that's that's kinda funny is that me, Neil, and dad are are almost always the three of us hunting together. And like Neil said, occasionally, if the schedules don't work out, we'll,
• 32:49
  Daniel Hayes: you
• 32:50
  Neil Hayes: know, we'll split up. Neil and Timo go by themselves or or whatever. But the most part, we're always hunting together. Dad's got his dog, Gus. Neil's got his dog, Timo, and I've got my dog, Fitz.
• 32:59
  So a lot of people think, oh, if we hunt if we hunted 20 mornings in a row, they might think that our dog is the most well seasoned dog in Northeast Mississippi, but we are on a constant rotation. The some dog is gonna get their feelings hurt every single morning because the three of us are gonna go, and it's Gus' turn, and it's Timmy's turn, and then it's Fitz's turn. So they're they're always subbing in and out for each other. So we've always got one chomping at the bits ready to go.
• 33:21
  Chris Jennings: That's awesome. Go ahead, Neil.
• 33:23
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. Just to answer your question, though, but I think my, you know, my favorite part of waterfowl hunting is, you know, probably a lot of people's is is just how cool it is, you know, because, you know, you manage a place and and you live in a place, and, you know, your ducks and your deer I mean, your turkeys and your deer are there year round. You're all they're always on your farm wherever your place is, wherever you hunt. But it's such a cool aspect of, you know, the ducks just completely leaving, going thousands of miles away, you know, some all way as far as Alaska. And just how cool it is to know that that duck can just turn back around and fly right back to where he left, and knowing right where he left, and imprinting ducks, and and giving them a reason, like Daniel said, to come back to that area and, you know, creating you know, dad's got this he's had this obsession for over twenty years now, the first piece of dirt he ever bought in Mississippi.
• 34:10
  He immediately built a duck impoundment, and then he just it started from there, and he's probably built, you know, 14 or 15 waterfowl impoundments on, you know, our family land here in West Point over the years. He just got this obsession with creating waterfowl habitat, and it's been really cool to see over the years. But, you know, as far as favorite stories from hunting, there's a lot of them. My favorite you know, my my first band, you know, I was probably about 12 years old, and dad dad and I were one afternoon, so, you know, there's a bunch of mallards coming in this corn flooded cornfield we had, and we went out and just kinda built a little makeshift line out of some cane. And sure enough, first first green head that came in the decoys I shot.
• 34:47
  You know, he didn't even bring a gun. He just watched me shoot and, you know, shot green head, killed it, dog went out there and got it and brought it back. And and, you know, having my first band, just me and dad hunting together like that has always been a really special memory. And then one other memory was one of our friends is a a Navy SEAL. You know, he's been a Navy SEAL for over twenty years, about as decorated as you can be.
• 35:11
  And but about, I don't know, maybe ten years ago, he, had a kid, about 10 years old, and he was like, you know, he's just wearing me out. He's killed like a wood duck, but he's just obsessed with wanting to kill a mallard. He's never killed one. It's like a dream if it is to kill a mallard. And at the end that year, you know, it was a great duck hunting.
• 35:28
  We were seeing a lot of mallards. And so was like, look, that's no problem. We'll go out, you know, come over here this weekend and and we'll do and we'll get it done. And so we're setting up the decoys, you know, the first light, you know, told his son, I said, come out here, you know, we're staying kinda out there outside the blind, closer to the decoys, right at the first light, you know, watching ducks come in before shooting hours, and, you know, he's just, you know, head spinning. And, anyway, the right after shooting light, the first green hair that came in decoys, you know, were standing out there and he shot it.
• 35:56
  My old Jake went out there and picked it up and brought it back, and sure enough, it had a band on it. So that was his first mallard ever was a banded greenhead, so I That always like to tell that was a pretty cool cool deal to do that, and then get get back to our friend who's spent so many years in the service and, you know, helping him out get his first mallard.
• 36:16
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. That's perfect. I don't think you could have set that up any better. I mean, you couldn't script that You know, banded duck on the first one. That's, like, that's so cool.
• 36:24
  And and that kinda brings it all full circle right there with, you know, your guys' passion for, you know, the habitat, really. It's and it's not just the habitat as we discussed. It's everything to do with the habitat, the ducks, deer, turkeys, you know, all the wildlife. And and that kinda leads me to, you know, one of my last questions here. Just when you guys were looking for, let's you know, a partner in conservation, you know, what what made you guys kinda gravitate towards Ducks Unlimited?
• 36:50
  Neil Hayes: Well, I think Ducks Unlimited, more so than a lot of other organizations, it's kind of one of those things that is, you know, there's always been this struggle in the whitetail world for somebody to kind of crack the code of making everybody feel like they have to be part of an organization. It's never really worked out. But you I mean, what someone does similar with turkeys, even though National Wild Turkey Federation has done an amazing job of building the community and they do a lot of great work. How someone treats their turkey habitat in Michigan is not ever gonna affect the turkey population in West Point, Mississippi, and same with deer. What somebody does in Illinois is never gonna have an effect on what we're doing down here, barring some crazy kind of events that happens.
• 37:31
  But with waterfowl, you can't do it on your own. And without the the help of someone like Ducks Unlimited taking care of of all these really daunting problems that there's no way little hunting communities can solve on their own, there's just there's just no possible way that we would all survive or that we would know that somebody is looking after the the critters and and waterfowl all over North America are in good hands no matter what point of the migration they're on. If it's habitat down here for people that only stay in when they're hunting or if it's habitat from stopover areas or or parts of the country that people never travel. And it it's just it's more essential with waterfowl, I feel like, than just about anything else to make sure that people like you guys are taking care of everything for us so that the ducks are gonna show back
• 38:15
  Daniel Hayes: up next year. And we
• 38:16
  Neil Hayes: know that when the duck season closes, waiting until next November to come, that y'all are working with all the best biologists in the country, and working with all the best local landowners and farmers and whoever else taking care of all these projects that are completely essential to making sure that the resources are around for another hundred years.
• 38:33
  Chris Jennings: Awesome, man. No. That's perfect. And I know here at Ducks Unlimited, we appreciate Mossy Oak's partnership. You know, it it it just seems to be such a natural fit, and and you guys are a great partner.
• 38:44
  Even with things like this coming on the podcast, kinda sharing your story, it it's really cool for our audience to hear your guys' personal stories. And one last question before I get you out of here. Who's a better shot between you two? Oh, it got it got quiet real quick.
• 39:03
  Neil Hayes: I'll I'll answer this so Neil doesn't sound like he's dragging, but Neil Neil is Neil's better at a lot of things than me. I feel like I have to try a little harder that the, you know, my my dad and my granddad both have you know, I think they're woodsman on the level that that Daniel Bruin or some old frontiersman would appreciate. They've got this level of woodmanship that's unbelievable, and you really see it when you're turkey hunting more than anything. But Neil Neil has a lot of that in him, and I've got a lot of get lost in the woods walking to the tree in me. And I think I guess that translates to Neil being a better shot too because I can I've got no problem admitting that one.
• 39:39
  Daniel Hayes: There's there's been plenty of days where Daniel's outshot me. So, yeah, it just depends on the day, I think.
• 39:44
  Chris Jennings: That's awesome. That's that's cool.
• 39:46
  Neil Hayes: That was a
• 39:46
  Chris Jennings: that was a good way to answer. You guys are both so nice to each other. It's awesome. Being being kind, not not cribbing the
• 39:52
  Daniel Hayes: Once the phone call ends once the phone call ends, I'm sure we'll we'll get into an argument about who's the better shot.
• 39:57
  Chris Jennings: Perfect. That's all I was trying to do is just start an argument between you guys. Man, guys, this has been great. You know, I really enjoyed hearing your guys' story, hearing the, know, Mossy Oak story. I appreciate you coming on, and you know what?
• 40:11
  We're gonna have to try and get you guys back on again, especially once season kicks on, you know, maybe or the season kicks in. What we could do is bring you on to kinda do a little bit of a maybe a migration type update from your area down there to kinda see what you guys are seeing. We still have, what, like a month or so till season kicks in there.
• 40:27
  Daniel Hayes: So Yeah. We're we're already starting to see some it's not even November yet. We're already starting to see big ducks flying around and and using some of the water that we have. Most of our stuff is is dry, but some of the sloughs and stuff, there's already ducks around.
• 40:38
  Chris Jennings: That's exciting. That's a way to get excited about it.
• 40:42
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. Just it's hard to watch them for a whole month knowing you can't go do anything about it. But, yeah, I mean, it is fun watching them, and then that dad says all the time, you know, he spends all his energy creating his waterfowl habitat, and he loves to shoot ducks more that just as much as the next person, but more than that, he loves watching ducks. You know? He'll just go out and just watch ducks for hours and just watch them flying in and big groups coming into the ponds and and just, you know, he just he loves being able to just sit and watch them, and so that's one of his favorite things.
• 41:09
  And so I've always thought that's pretty cool.
• 41:11
  Neil Hayes: He is he did definitely his obsession comes out if you ever get there's there's some mornings where he's paranoid that we don't have any ducks anywhere, and, you know, we go to the one spot where he knows we have ducks, and legal shooting time gets here, and he won't let anybody in the blind shoot, and he just wants to watch the ducks fly. Because it's it's it's so paranoid that the the ducks are gonna leave or that we're gonna, you know, for short term, ten, fifteen minutes right at shooting light, killing a bunch of ducks is is gonna gonna harm the rest of the season or whatever. There there are plenty of mornings where he just gets out there and watches ducks, and me and Niller kind of elbowing him in the ribs. And he yeah. I mean, he he's like a kid in a candy store.
• 41:48
  If he's got ducks and he's watching him fly, you just see the little twinkle in his eye. He's got you know, there's that little there's like a, I think, a natural wonder that everybody's born with that you have when you're a kid, when you're walking around the woods and everything's new. And the world kinda, you know, conditioned people to leave that behind as they grew up, but dad never lost that. And whether it's turkeys, deer, ducks, or even walking around with my grandmother seeing all the wildflowers that are growing on our property, I mean, every aspect of the land and the and the critters he's just obsessed with.
• 42:17
  Chris Jennings: That's awesome. No. That's perfect. Hey, guys. I appreciate you coming on.
• 42:21
  Well, like I said, we're gonna have to do it again here soon, and, yeah, thanks a lot.
• 42:26
  Daniel Hayes: Yeah. We'd love to come back, and we appreciate you having us, and look forward to talking ducks in the future.
• 42:31
  Chris Jennings: I'd like to thank my guests, Daniel and Neil Hayes from Mossy Oak for joining me today and talking about the history of Mossy Oak and a little bit about their own duck hunting, which was awesome. I'd like to thank our producer, Chris Isaac, for putting the show together and getting it out to you, and I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on the DU podcast and supporting Welland's Conservation.
• 42:50
  VO: Thank you for listening to the DU podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
• 43:12
  Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, stay tuned to the Ducks.