Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 445: What Every Indie Filmmaker Can Learn from a $5K Zombie Movie with Bojan Dulabic

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BPS 445: What Every Indie Filmmaker Can Learn from a $5K Zombie Movie with Bojan Dulabic · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number Your dream
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  Speaker 3: doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep breath and
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  Speaker 2: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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  Speaker 1: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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  Speaker 4: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 3: Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now.
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  Speaker 3: Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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  Speaker 3: on the kind of project you are in the goals
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  Speaker 3: of the project you are, so we actually break it
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  Speaker 3: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
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  Speaker 4: Joining me today is Bouyon Dulabic. Boyan is a Vancouver
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  Speaker 4: filmmaker and he just released the zombie feature film project
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  Speaker 4: Jugenics Boyon, how are you, sir?
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  Speaker 2: Good?
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  Speaker 4: Good?
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  Speaker 5: Thank you for having me my friend.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, it's my pleasure. You know, we met through Jason
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  Speaker 4: Brubaker's site. I end up meeting so many people because
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  Speaker 4: of Jason. Really give him a producer credit for this podcast.
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  Speaker 5: It's a he's a great resource man. I've written a
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  Speaker 5: few articles for his blog and uh, yeah, he's a
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  Speaker 5: great guy, great guy.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. And the article that got us introduced, so to speak,
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  Speaker 4: was the article he wrote called how I made a
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  Speaker 4: zombie film for five thousand dollars. And at first, when
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  Speaker 4: I saw that, you know, I thought Jason may have
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  Speaker 4: wrote that, and I was like, wow, Jason made another
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  Speaker 4: zombie film, and I said, oh wait, it's this guy
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  Speaker 4: Bullyon he just wrote it. I started to learn more
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  Speaker 4: about you. So, you know, that's what we're going to
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  Speaker 4: talk about this podcast is. You know, I'm sure a
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  Speaker 4: lot of people probably saw that and was thinking, my god,
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  Speaker 4: how do you make a zombie film for five thousand dollars,
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  Speaker 4: let alone a feature zombie film? You know, five thousand dollars?
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  Speaker 4: So bulliant you get started? You know, how did you
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  Speaker 4: get into the film industry? Me?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh man, that goes back a long time. You
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  Speaker 5: know how every filmmaker has this story. You know, when
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  Speaker 5: I was seven, my daddy bought me a camera and
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  Speaker 5: you know, I started filming and I started to think
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  Speaker 5: about that, how did it actually happen with me? And
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  Speaker 5: I realized it actually goes as far back as when
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  Speaker 5: I was five years old. I'm originally from Bosnia, which
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  Speaker 5: is in eastern Europe, and my mom actually had her
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  Speaker 5: own store and in there she also had a video
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  Speaker 5: store at the time, and so obviously, you know, I
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  Speaker 5: was I think I was around five. I started watching
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  Speaker 5: movies and it was all Hollywood movies, and I loved it, right,
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  Speaker 5: And so in nineteen ninety there was a war in
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  Speaker 5: Bosnia and we moved to Germany and lived there as refugees,
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  Speaker 5: and I just, you know, I just loved movies. But
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  Speaker 5: not just movies. I mean I think every kid loves movies.
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  Speaker 5: I love to watch making off you know. And you know,
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  Speaker 5: back then we're talking early nineties, there was no Internet,
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  Speaker 5: there was no YouTube, you know, so finding out how
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  Speaker 5: movies were made it was not that easy. So luckily
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  Speaker 5: there was some show so I would watch as much
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  Speaker 5: as I could. And then in nineteen ninety eight we
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  Speaker 5: moved to Croatia because I'm Croatian from Bosnia, so we
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  Speaker 5: moved there and we lived there for three years, and
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  Speaker 5: then we moved to Canada. And it was in Canada
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  Speaker 5: and high school Winnipeg, City of Winnipeg when I where
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  Speaker 5: I really developed an interest for acting and for filmmaking.
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  Speaker 5: And it was I was in grade ten, uh, and yeah,
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  Speaker 5: I just loved it. I you know. I started with
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  Speaker 5: simple slide shows and I did I did my first
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  Speaker 5: short film in I think it was my grade twelve
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  Speaker 5: class English class. It was a creative project and you know,
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  Speaker 5: I was like, I don't feel like doing another paper.
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  Speaker 5: And I was like, hey, man, can I can I
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  Speaker 5: make a movie? And my teachers like, sure, why not?
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  Speaker 5: And so I did. And that was really when I
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  Speaker 5: started doing it and got more and more into it.
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  Speaker 5: Then I started doing videography for actually my my the
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  Speaker 5: school division that my high school was part of, because
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  Speaker 5: at that time they they saw some of my stuff
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  Speaker 5: that I was doing. And uh because for whatever project,
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  Speaker 5: uh school project that you know, if I could do
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  Speaker 5: a video about it, I would, you know. And so
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  Speaker 5: my teachers kind of you know, gotten to know my
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  Speaker 5: my filmmaking abilities and all that stuff. And so it
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  Speaker 5: started there. And then I went to the University of
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  Speaker 5: Winnipeg studying theater. Didn't do any I didn't take any
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  Speaker 5: film courses or anything. Everything when it comes to filmmaking
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  Speaker 5: was pretty much self taught, uh, you know, by making
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  Speaker 5: a lot of mistakes, you know, yeah, and you know,
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  Speaker 5: you know how it goes. And then in two thousand
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  Speaker 5: and seven, I moved to Vancouver, where I am now
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  Speaker 5: to you know, pursue acting and filmmaking. So yeah, and
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  Speaker 5: you know, I just kept doing short films, you know,
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  Speaker 5: my my YouTube channel, web shows, you know, that kind
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  Speaker 5: of stuff. And then in the twenty twelve I finally
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  Speaker 5: decided I'm going to make my first feature, which was
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  Speaker 5: a comedy at the time, and that one I actually
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  Speaker 5: made for four thousand dollars. It was even less, but
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  Speaker 5: it was a lot simpler. It was said mostly in
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  Speaker 5: one location and you know, talking heads kind of comedy.
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  Speaker 5: And yeah, when one was done, because I'm a you know,
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  Speaker 5: zombie nerd and sci fi and horror geek, you know,
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  Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, you know what, I think I
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  Speaker 5: can do this. Initially, I actually my goal was to
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  Speaker 5: make this movie for three thousand dollars, but you know,
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  Speaker 5: I realized, okay, that's I'm pushing it with five, but
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  Speaker 5: with three, I'm really that's just ridiculous. So yeah, then,
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  Speaker 5: you know, in uh when was it early twenty late
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  Speaker 5: twenty thirteen, early twenty fourteen, around there, I had this
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  Speaker 5: idea for you know, this the zombie flick, and started
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  Speaker 5: writing and by this summer or I was it, yeah bye.
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  Speaker 5: By late summer of twenty fourteen, I had my you know,
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  Speaker 5: first draft, and then I started, you know, started thinking
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  Speaker 5: about casting and all that. Started casting in a October
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  Speaker 5: ish of twenty fourteen and November first we started shooting,
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  Speaker 5: so it was it was very quick process and you
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  Speaker 5: know then editing took longer. But also, if you want
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  Speaker 5: to add one more crazy element to the mix, I
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: also got married three months ago, so yeah, exactly, so
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  Speaker 5: you know, obviously you know that's important and in many
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  Speaker 5: ways that's more important than the movie, you know, but
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  Speaker 5: I'm a filmmaker, so you know, we're crazy people. So yeah,
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  Speaker 5: I managed to you know, make all that work. And
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  Speaker 5: you know, I have an amazing wife who just I
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  Speaker 5: can't think her enough for you know, putting up with me.
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  Speaker 5: So yeah, that's kind of how I got into it.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 4: You know, that was pretty quick from you know, having
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  Speaker 4: that initial idea to actually getting you know, start shooting
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  Speaker 4: the film. And you know, if there's one thing you
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  Speaker 4: do need when making a film, it's another crazy element
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  Speaker 4: to work against you, right. Yeah, So how long did
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  Speaker 4: it take you to actually write the script then? From
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  Speaker 4: you know, from concept to actually writing a full page screenplay.
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  Speaker 5: I would say it took about until I had my
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  Speaker 5: first draft. I'd say about seven months, six seven months
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  Speaker 5: around there.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Once I had the first draft, the rest was very
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  Speaker 5: you know, relatively quick, but you know, getting it up
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  Speaker 5: there to the first draft. Yeah, i'd say about that
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  Speaker 5: around there.
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  Speaker 4: So when you were writing the screenplay, did you try
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  Speaker 4: to like immerse yourself into zombie films? So some of
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  Speaker 4: the other guests I've had on the show, one of
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  Speaker 4: the things that I've noticed is whatever their theme or
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  Speaker 4: genre they're writing for, all they will watch and read
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  Speaker 4: about is just that one thing. So I imagine if
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  Speaker 4: you use that method, all you were watching were zombie films.
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  Speaker 4: Now did you Did you follow that method?
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  Speaker 5: Absolutely? Absolutely? And you know, as my wife will testify
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  Speaker 5: because she hates horror, it was yes, I do the
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  Speaker 5: exact same thing. I mean, I you know, I bought
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  Speaker 5: a book about zombies, and I you know, rewatch pretty
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  Speaker 5: much every zombie movie I have, and you know whatever
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  Speaker 5: else is on Netflix, and you know, and uh, you
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  Speaker 5: know out there because you have to. I mean you
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  Speaker 5: really have to. I mean, to me, a zombie flick,
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  Speaker 5: a good zombie flick, it's never it's not about the zombies, right,
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  Speaker 5: It's always about something else. And then obviously use the
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  Speaker 5: zombies to tell a story, so they're more storytelling device.
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  Speaker 5: So to me, it was really the main thing was, Okay,
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  Speaker 5: what is this movie about? Figure figuring out what's my angle,
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  Speaker 5: you know what, because I mean, zombie movies have been
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  Speaker 5: done to death obviously, and we all love it, but
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  Speaker 5: there's one every week coming out, So how what can
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  Speaker 5: I offer that's you know, a little unique, that's a
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  Speaker 5: little you know, outside the box. So you know, that
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  Speaker 5: was my main thing as I was watching, like I said,
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  Speaker 5: all these these zombie flakes and reading and all that,
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  Speaker 5: and uh, once I had that, you know, idea, and
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  Speaker 5: once I figured that out, then the rest was a
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  Speaker 5: lot easier. You know, still wasn't easy, but it was easier.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
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  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. And you're
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  Speaker 4: right though, you know, there is seemingly a new zombie
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  Speaker 4: film coming out every week. You know. I was just
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  Speaker 4: talking about it to my one friend and you know,
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  Speaker 4: he's not in the film industry, but he watches a
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  Speaker 4: ton of films and he's like, you know what, I'm
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: so sick of zombies. He's like, Dave, I don't want
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: to watch any zombie films. I ended up trying to
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: talk him into watching a zombie film after that, because
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: actually And one of the things that I've you know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: as producing movies, I've noticed is is that they're always
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: ask you know, what is your unfair advantage? You know,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: if you're pitching to somebody, you know, what is your
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: unfair advantage? You know, what is our unique selling position?
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  Speaker 1: You know?
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  Speaker 4: And that's something that you were you know, you've you've
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  Speaker 4: kind of hit on there, you know, because you have
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  Speaker 4: to make it. What's going to be unique about your
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: you know, your film?
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  Speaker 3: Uh?
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  Speaker 4: You know anyway, listening to this, I'm not even talking
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  Speaker 4: about making a zombie fl I'm talking about making any film.
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  Speaker 4: You know, how are you going to make it unique
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  Speaker 4: that so it stands out from the crowd? And you know,
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  Speaker 4: obviously you know, boyon, one of the things you did
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  Speaker 4: was you know, you know, you put your own style
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  Speaker 4: into it. You know, I don't know if it wor
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: wass in your mouth, but you know, I actually, why
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: don't I just ask you? So, you know, what are
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: some of the things that you that you wanted to
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: make sure you got in there that made it sort
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  Speaker 4: of your style, made it your movie that you can
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  Speaker 4: help stand out?
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  Speaker 5: Uh? Sure, yeah, I mean, you know, growing up the
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: way I did, you know, moving around a lot and
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: be you know, being part of different cultures and and
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: all that stuff. Was great on one hand because it
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: really gave me insight into just just humanity, right, I mean,
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  Speaker 5: just uh, understanding how the world works.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 5: But on the other hand, it also made me the
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: constant outsider, you know. I mean, as much as I
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: tried to fit in, you know, it's it's difficult, right,
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  Speaker 5: So that's kind of you know what I try try
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  Speaker 5: to bring to this it's you know, interestingly enough if well,
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  Speaker 5: if if I can use that word for lack of
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: a better word, you know, the things that are happening
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  Speaker 5: lately just around the world and all that it. You know,
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  Speaker 5: it really seems like like a zombie flake in one hand,
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  Speaker 5: in the sense that, you know, one of the things,
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  Speaker 5: for example, I tried to accomplish in this movie was
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  Speaker 5: I'm trying to I'm trying to say without giving away
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  Speaker 5: you know, a plot lines, but essentially a lot of
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  Speaker 5: it deals with information, you know, what's happening.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 5: You know, person A tells you, this person, he tells you,
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: this person he tells you is you know, and all
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: that stuff, and you're kind of stuck in the middle
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  Speaker 5: going I don't know what's going on, you know, So
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: that was kind of what I tried to bring into it, Uh,
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: a certain a safe confusion. I watched an interview with
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: Tarantino a long time ago where he talked about I
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: think he was talking about reservoir dogs or pulp or
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: pulp Pulp actually one of the two, and he was
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: talking about this concept that he calls a safe confusion,
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  Speaker 5: where you know, you want the audience to be confused
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  Speaker 5: in terms of, okay, what's going on, but at the
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  Speaker 5: same time, it has to be safe in the sense
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  Speaker 5: you haven't lost them right as you as you unfold
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  Speaker 5: the story. You know, you want them to be safe
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  Speaker 5: and keep watching. But yet there's a certain amount of
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: confusion they need to have because that's when they'll they'll
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: engage more. So that's what I tried to do with
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  Speaker 5: the way I structured the story, which, again, without giving
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: too much away, it it's a bit different, and you know,
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: it's not as simple, okay, from A to B kind
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: of a scenario. So on one hand, I try to
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: do that with the structure of the story, and I
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: try to, like I said, I try to talk about
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: real well quote unquote real things that that do happen
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  Speaker 5: in in the world, which you know, uh, the way
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  Speaker 5: the world is being portrayed by, whether it's the media,
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: by by just individuals, by you know, whoever it is,
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: because I do believe, you know that we live in in,
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: like I said, interesting times where we have so much
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: access to technology. I mean, it is crazy, man. I'm
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: sitting right now. You know, you don't see it, but
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: I'm sitting in front of two screens. I got my tablet,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: I got my phone. There's way too much technology here.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: It would take me five seconds to look up anything
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  Speaker 5: whatever I'm interested in, you know. So that's great on
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: one hand, but on the other hand, there's also I
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: feel this this confusion as to you know, what is
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: going on in the world. You know, like I said,
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: whether it's politics, but whatever it is, it doesn't really matter.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: It's not my job as a filmmaker to tell you
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  Speaker 5: what's going on, because I don't I don't think that's
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: what we should be doing. But it's simply my job
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: to talk about these things. And you know, you make
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: up your mind. I don't, you know, it's I respect,
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: you know, whatever opinions people have but yeah, if that
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: makes any sense, that's kind of what I tried to
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: bring into this, to make it more than just a
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: you know, just you know, just a dumb zombie flake,
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: because like I said, I love zombies, but it shouldn't
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: just be about the zombies. It's it should be more
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: than that.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: You know, Yeah, definitely, And you know, I think The
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Walking Dead, you know, hit touches on that theme. And
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: then you know, obviously Romero he really set the tone
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: fall of it with Night Living Dead, and you know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: then he went into into consumerism with Dawn of the Dead,
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: and then we went into the whole Day of the Dead.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, I actually just rewatched Data Dead a while ago,
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: and it actually was a lot better than I remembered.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: I remember, you know, in high school watching the three
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: of those, and I remember liking Dawn the most by
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: far and away. And I came back and re visited
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Day to Dead recently, and I was like, wow, this
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: is a lot better than I remembered it. Maybe I
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: was just too stupid as a kid.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know, No, absolutely no, I absolutely agree. I mean,
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: interestingly enough, I mean, Ramiro is obviously one of my
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: top zombie well, I think he is the top zombie god,
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: you know, the film God. But interesting enough, it was
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: actually Diary of the Dead. I don't know if you've
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: seen that one. That I mean, I've seen all of them,
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: but that one was really the one that stood out
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  Speaker 5: to me and the one that I would say probably
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: inspired me the most in terms of you know what
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: I want to talk about, because it does deal with
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: different sorty similar themes just in the sense that you know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: everything's well, it's slightly different, but you know, technology plays
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: a big part and and you know a certain like
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: I said, confusion as to what's going on and manipulation. Yeah,
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: that's the right word. So yeah, no, I agree. You know,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: Romero was a big influence on me as well. You know,
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: I mean, there's plenty of them if we step slightly
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: out of the zombie genre. Robert Rodriguez is my one
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: of my top guys just in terms of executing a movie.
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm sure I'm not the first one to
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: say this. When I heard way way back that, you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: when he made El Mariachi for seven thousand dollars, you know,
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: I was like, really, get out of here, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: I was. I read it somewhere in the book. This
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: was before I, you know, started really started on my
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: filmmaking a journey, and I was like, good god, man,
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: if he made that back in ninety two, why shouldn't
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: I be able to do you know, my version of
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: it by today's standards, which should be better because technology
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: is better, it's cheaper, you know. Let's so that's really
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: you know, when when this seed was planted in my
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: head that you know, I don't need it. Yes, it
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: would be great if I had one hundred thousand dollars,
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: a million dollars, you know, whatever, Right, I don't so,
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: but I'm pretty confident I can. I can do this,
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, as we as filmmakers today, you know, Jason and
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: I talked about this too. Was we have so much
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: information being thrown at us, and a lot of the times,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: you know, we end up not actually making a film.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: We talk about making a film. We sit there and
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: we research every camera package and you know this, boyan,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: there's a new camera package coming out every other day.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: It's you know, Red is over there in Cannon and
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Panasonic and here's a black Magic and I mean it's
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: just it's a never ending deluge of new camera packages,
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: and now you spend more time reading about cameras and
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: lighting kits than you do actually writing a screenplay and going, hey,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: wait a minute, maybe I should make this. But wait, first,
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: I got to look at the new camera packages. I
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: think I think Road just released a new audio kid.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: I gotta look at that, you know, And I think
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: that's sort of it's it's it's paralysis through analysis. That
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: that's the best way to describe it. And you know
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: that's but it's but it's good though that you read
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Rodriguez's book and then you know realized, hey, you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: why couldn't I make this zombie film for five thousand dollars?
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: No.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, and to go back to the whole gear fetish
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: as I like to go on. Absolutely, I agree, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: I think we all suffer from that. I do too. Absolutely,
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: you know, I you know this, this evolution of technology
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: in terms of you know, filmmaking related technology is amazing.
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: But yes, at some point you have to stop yourself
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: and say, you know what, that's great. And yes, in reality,
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: if I make this movie today, if I had waited
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: a year longer, certain aspects would of it would probably
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: be easier to make. But then you're in this endless
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: cycle where yeah, you'll never make anything because you know,
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: things are always getting better, easier. I mean for this film,
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: I used the black Magic Pocket Cinema camera, which and
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: I you know, I really wanted to use it for
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: this flick because you know, because of various things. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: we can certainly talk about that too. But you know,
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: if I had waited, for example, until now, you know,
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: I could have used the micro what is it, the
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: black Magic micro studio camera. They got this really small one.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: Which would have allowed me to do even fancier shots,
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So, yeah, you can get
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: crazy just thinking about all that stuff. So yeah, it's uh,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: it's great, and but on one hand you have to
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: stop yourself and say, yeah, do this now, and yeah
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: when Yeah, going back to Rodriguez, I mean you know
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: when I you know, read about him in a different
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: book and started reading his book and all that stuff.
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: You know, the one thing and Jason talks about this too,
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: the one thing that you know, certainly filmmakers who are
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: you know, beginning beginner filmmakers, there are certain myths that
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: we we start to believe, which is, you know, well,
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: you have to have whatever a million dollars to make
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: a movie, or you know, have to you have to
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: have twenty people on crew, you know, to do all
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: this blah blah. And don't get me wrong it certainly,
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: you know, there are specific budgets for specific types of
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: movies that you should have and all that. However, you know,
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: if you get creative, you can make I'm not gonna
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: say you can make everything work, because there are certain
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: things that really, you know, probably not gonna work, but
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: most things you can. And you know, like Rodriguez said
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: in an interview and in his book, you know, take
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: stock of what you have, you know, take stock of
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: of of the relationships you have built and what do
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: you have access to, and make a movie about that.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: You know, I did that for my first movie. I
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: did that for this movie. And I mean, you should
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: always challenge yourself and you know, grow, so you know
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: that's that's obviously important. But don't be afraid, man, just
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: get out and do it. And yeah, you're gonna make mistakes,
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: you know, you're, in my opinion, the best thing I
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: could have done for this movie, and my other movie
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: was not to think everything through, you know what I mean,
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: because a lot of times we become our own enemy
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: when we start dissecting everything, you know. I mean you
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: need to have a game plan, absolutely, but there are
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: certain things where you'll just have to deal with it
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: if it occurs or you know, as it unfolds, because
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: you don't have all the answers. I mean, good guy, man,
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: I've you know, I've been on set as an actor
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: on professional sets, and I always love to observe the
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: crew because you know, that's the filmmaker in me, and
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: you think they have all the answers with millions of
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: dollars of budgets. No, So sometimes you just take things
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: as they are, but don't be afraid to just dive
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: in there and you know, get your feedway.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, very true. I You know, oftentimes we think, you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: we have to have this large amount of money to
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: do things. And the key I think is if we
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: are going to set out to make a movie and
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: we're gonna fund it ourselves or even crowdfund, or even crowdfund,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: you know a certain amount of money, I think the
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: script has to be written that way on purpose, meaning
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: that you know, we're not gonna be able to do
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: all these wonderful special effects unless either a you know
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: how to do it personally, like you as the as
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: the director or whoever know how to do that. And
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: I've seen filmmakers do that. They they are special effects
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: guys by trade. So all the VFX stuff looks amazing,
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: you know, all the bull time stuff. And then on
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: the flip side of that, you know they're hoping to,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe form it out, maybe going to somewhere
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: like Upwork or somewhere to find somebody maybe in like
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: you know, India or something that could do it for
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: a cheaper price. But you know, boring that. You know,
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: I think if you are going to rate, you know,
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: make a movie and let's just say we have one
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars to spend, like kind of like what Mark
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: Duplas was recommending, just go making movies as cheap as
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: possible to learn how to make movies. We should make that,
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: you know, we should write, Hey, listen, what do I
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: have access to? I have access to my car, my house,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: this woods next to me. I can use my aunt
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Susie's house. You know, how am I going to figure
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: out how can I make this into a movie that
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: you know is going to keep audiences engaged? Well, maybe
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: I don't have enough for ninety minutes. Maybe I have
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: enough for twenty minutes. So maybe I should make a
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: short film instead and just build off from there.
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely agree with everything. I mean, that's you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: that's exactly what I tried to do on this one.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: You know, what I really wanted to do on this
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: one that I didn't do in the first one was
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: having more actors, having more locations, right. I really wanted
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: to step up the production value on that side. But
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: of course, you know, there's no budget really for those things.
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: So I knew, okay, I have access to certain places.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: I shot at my brother's place, I shot at my
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: buddy's place. You know, I had access to a studio,
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: so I was able to shoot some stuff there. And
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: you know, for example, you talked about VFX. I'm not
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: a professional VFX guy. However, I am actually getting more
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: and more into it. But I knew that, Okay, I
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: can do certain things with you know, with the efs,
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: and and I do talk about this. I think I
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: talked about that in the article as well. For example,
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: I used video co pilots plug ins, uh for after effects,
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: and they allowed me to animate you know, jets and
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: drones and all that kind of stuff and uh, you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: create certain shots that I couldn't have gotten otherwise, not
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: with my budget. Right, so you know, understanding that, okay,
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: I can bring this to the game, and I think
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: I talk about this. Doing the article, I you know,
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: made use of of stock footage, which in my opinion,
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: stock footage when used properly and sparingly and all, there's
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: nothing wrong with it. I know there's filmmakers who shy
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: away from it, but to me, if using somebody else's music,
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: what's the difference. It's somebody else's material. But like I said,
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: as long as it supports your story and it makes sense,
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: and you know you're not using it every every two
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: minutes or so, nothing wrong with it. So I made
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: use of that. So I understood all these things as
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: I was writing the you know, the script and the
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: way I structured the story. I also structured it purposely
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: that way because like I said, I wanted more actors,
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: and there's there's quite a few actors in this one,
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: but I don't have the budget to pay them. You know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: but I figured, well, if I if I only use
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: actors for one too, maybe three days at the most,
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: I think that can work, right, So I structured the
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: script that way where you know, that's what I ended
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: up happening, because at the end of the day, you know,
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: you have to you have to understand that, you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: you can't abuse other people, you know what I mean.
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, yes, this is my dream, this is my
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: passion and all that, but that's mine. It's not others.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: You know, for other people, that's just a job, a gig,
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: and when they're not getting paid, well, you got to
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: be sensitive to that, right, So and yeah, it's probably
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: the actor in me as well. I've been enough in
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: these shoots where you know, you start to feel like
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: you're being taken for granted in this one, you know.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: So I you know, I was thinking about all these
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: things as I was, like I said, constructing the story,
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: which is important. It's it's crucial because at the end
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: of the day, I'd rather do a you know, a
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: smaller project, but do it right then try to attempt
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: this epic thing where at the end of the day,
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: you know, I burn out and I don't even finish it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: The way I want. I owe money to gazillions of people,
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: and everyone hates me.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: This way, I'm good, you know, and.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: You know that that's I made a mistake like that
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: when I first started, you know, I I tried to
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: make something way too epic for like my second or
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: third movie. This movie will never see a light No,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: it was my third movie. That's right, because my second
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: and third short films will never ever see the light
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: of day. But the third one somebody actually has on
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: a dvday. And if I ever even got a monocule
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: of success, I know somebody would be like, hey, look
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: at this, this is Dave Willis's thing. But basically, there
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: was a lot of gunplay and I had this is
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: what video co pilot. I actually have that DVD as well.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: I actually got got the DVD for I think Christmas,
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: or maybe I bought it myself. And what happened was
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: I was all all set to do all I did,
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: all the choreography worked out well, one by one I
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: had my crew drop out. So now I'm doing like,
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: not only three roles and four roles, now I'm doing
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: like six or seven roles. So now it's down to me,
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: my cinematographer, because this is a whole new team. I've
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: ever worked with these guys before. And as the day
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: went on, I just had more and more problems kept
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: creeping up that you know, I could have worked out
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: had I had more people to fight these fires. For me,
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: why I fight these fires because now it's like, you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: I'm going around trying to fix this and do that,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: and then you know the place was supposed to be vacant,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: and then here, who guess what happens? Here comes security?
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: Who are you guys? You're not supposed to be here?
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, yes, we are. I have been over
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: this for months talking to you guys. I mean, it's
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: just it was a complete disaster. But the point I'm
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: trying to make is if I had just done something
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: even a slightly slightly step backwards on a slightly small scale, we'll.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: now back to the show.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: I would have had a much better time. I would
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: have had a much better finish product, and we probably
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: would have gotten shot. Probably got would have gotten everything
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: shot that day, rather than you know, having like pieces
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: of it, you know, put together somewhere and you know,
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: eventually I put together what was like a rough cut
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: of a couple of days, and it was like you
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: couldn't show this anywhere. It was unbearable to watch. Just
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: everything that could went wrong did go wrong. My second
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: and third student films that everything that could go wrong
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: went wrong. It was unbelievable. You know, we were just
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: talking about, you know, making things that are epic. So
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: there's advice to pull from this from anybody listening. Do
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: not try to make like Godzilla or Lord of the
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: Rings or Inglorious Bastard's your first time. You will fail horribly.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Yep. Well, I absolutely agree. You know, I've done a
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: fair share of mistakes on you know, like short films
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: and all that, but I definitely you know, there's a
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: lot of anxiety and fear on my first film, and
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: that's why, you know, that's why that one, like like
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: I mentioned earlier, it's a comedy mostly set in one location.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: You know, it's two roommates and it's in their apartment
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: and you know, stuff starts to go wrong and that
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: kind of you know, those kinds of scenarios and you know,
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: we shot that one in eight days on weekends, and
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: you know, that Really that was a great sort of playground,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: learning ground for me to see. Okay, first of all,
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: can I do? That was eighty three minutes? Which is
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: this one is also eighty minutes, so you know it's
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: the same length. So that was a good opportunity for
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: me to see, Okay, can I can I actually make
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: a feature? You know, an eighty minute thing?
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Can I?
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: Cause you know a lot of filmmakers talk about that,
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: but they've actually never done it. Yeah, I know, I
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: didn't know what does it actually entail to make such
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: a such a longer piece. You know, at that point
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: my longest short was probably twelve fifteen minutes maybe, you know,
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: so you know, but there was a certain safe environment because,
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: like I said, mostly shot in one location. It had
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: four main actors and then there was few others, but
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: it was mostly those four guys, right, And you know,
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: I was very happy when when it was all done
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: and with you know, the end result, and it it
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: boosted my my what's the word, man, my my not
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: my ego but my confidence confidence, thank you Jesus, I
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: can talk. Oh yes, So it definitely boosted my confidence
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: and you know, made me realize that Okay, I think
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: I'm ready to do something bigger. But that's that's a
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: crucial moment right there. Uh, when it could have fallen
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: apart easily if I had gone, you know, just a
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: slightly bigger than what I ended up doing. You know,
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: it's a tricky thing, and I've obviously I have many
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: filmmaking friends, as we all do, and actor friends and
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: all that, and you know, some of them have never
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: made a feature, some of them are still working on it,
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: and some are recovering from it, you know, as we
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: all are. And you know, it's always good to just
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: be cognizant of Okay, you should always have your own style, absolutely,
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: but you know, if you know people have done it,
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: talk to them.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: I love to talk to you know, guys like you,
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: other filmmakers, and just kind of bounce ideas off, you know, Okay,
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: this is what worked for me. I don't know if
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: it's going to work for you, but this is what
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: worked for me, you know. And you know, once you
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: start doing that, once you start understanding this whole process,
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: it definitely helps you. At least it helped me, you know,
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: so hopefully when the next one, you know, when it's
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: time for the next one I'll you know, it'll be
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: but like I said, I don't want to go overboard
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: where that one's pretty much gonna bury me.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's somebody once told me before when I was
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: starting out. They said, Dave, never listened to anybody in
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: this business who teaches you how to make a film
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: who's never actually made a film. Never listen to anybody
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: who's about how to write a script if they'd never
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: written a script. He said, you know, this is all
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: so hands on that you can't just keep you know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of theory and all of this. There's
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: a lot of theory like, hey, I could you know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: make it this way or that way? What you really
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: need is is that meat and potato, so to speak.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: And I actually wrote a book. It didn't get published.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: It's actually on a hard drive. I took everybody on
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: this journey day by day, and I actually took a
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: snapshot of my bank account, well, the production's bank account,
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: everything from Czech stubbs, receipts, my own like writings of
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: how I dealt with problems with crew, cast locations, and
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: every day, at the end of every day or at
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: the beginning of every day, I would write something. At
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: the end of every day, I would write something so
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: like day one had a beginning, and this is what happened,
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: this is what we're playing on doing. And then I
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I would come back
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: and write this and I would give you snapshots. I
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: compiled it all together into a book with this TV pilot,
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: and I actually pitched it and a lot of places
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: were like, you know, this is a lot, and I said, well,
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: it's it's just detailing. You know, how did I come
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: up with a thousand dollars very quickly? How did I
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: get this money? How did I when PayPal shut down
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: our crowdfunding campaign because they had no clue what it
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: was they How did I come back from that? It's
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: that's the stuff that you know, you have to talk about.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: And then there's also like I actually have my own
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: private checklist of what I do now, Like I'm gonna
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: start a crowdfunding campaign next year. I know exactly what
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I'm going to do differently than I've done when I
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: did years ago, and even when I've done last year.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: When I was helping out other friends, you know, sometimes
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: I would they would you know, send me their link
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: or whatever. And I'd say, oh, okay, just do this
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: and this, and you know, I you know, don't worry
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: about credit. It's just you know, when the time comes
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: to you know, retweet my stuff or help me out
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: any way you can. But but yeah, you know, it's
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: it's just about those relationships and actually cultivating it and
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: you know, not being you know, just not being a
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: jerk to people.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: I guess right, well, absolutely, no, absolutely. I mean, first
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: of all, that sounds like an amazing book. Man, you know,
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: I want to read that, you know. No, but absolutely,
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: that's that's exactly what it is. You know, going back
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: to your your comment about listening people have never actually
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: made a film. II one hundred percent agree. And we
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: all have listened to these individuals who have these amazing theories.
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: And at the end of the day, look, if you
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: haven't done it yourself, or or if you unless you
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: are talking about what someone else said, it's a theory.
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: You know. I only talk about things that I've actually done,
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: you know, because at the end of the day, I
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: don't know, And I don't want to be the guy
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: who gives you some bs you know, information, because I
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: wouldn't want to be the one receiving bs information either,
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So no, absolutely, it's it's
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: it's a tricky thing because you know, obviously everyone has
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: an opinion, and you know, the one thing I always
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: like to do, you know, whenever I meet you know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: let's say, filmmakers, and you know, we start talking about everything,
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: and you know, after I've met them, I looked them
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: up online just to see, Okay, has this person actually
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: done something, because you know, you know, if they have
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: given me so many information all that, I want to
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: see where it actually comes from. And you know, in
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: some cases, you know, you're positively surprised to go, holy,
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: well they've done amazingly. I want to talk more to
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: this person. And then you know, there's there's situations where
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: you go, I see nothing here, you know, I see
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: absolutely nothing thing. Uh So at that point you kind
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: of go, I don't know, man, I don't know. And
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: you know, it's the same thing I you know, I
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: have my YouTube channel where I have a show called
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: Filmmaking Today, uh where I talk about it's all different things.
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: Gear I use techniques I use for my film and
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: my projects. And I always you know, from the beginning,
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: I told myself, I will only talk about things that
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: I'm actually doing, you know, because again there's so many
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: videos about you know, all kinds of things coming from
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: people who have actually never done it. I kind of
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: have an issue with UH as an actor. I also
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: have an issue with, you know, acting coaches, because you know,
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: you got to be careful with that. You know, you take,
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: you take a workshop with person X, and uh, you know,
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: you look them up and you see they had they
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: have actually less gigs than you. You know, Okay, I
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: I technically I'm more qualified to teach you this. Of
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: course you know what I mean. So this is not
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: not a good idea. So yeah, I agree to you know,
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: put it in one sentence.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: It's funny you mentioning acting coaches. There was actually an
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: acting coach on my Facebook. He deleted me just recently.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: He was always inviting me to all his events in
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: New York and stuff like that. And you know, I
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: actually one day watched one of his uh I don't
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: want it's not a real it's like a promo for
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: his classes, and he acted like he was like the
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: best actor who's ever existed. So I looked him up
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: and he was in virtually nothing and I'm like, how
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: the hell is this guy running acting classes who has
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: done absolutely positively nothing. And that's why when he deleted me,
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I didn't even worry about it. I was like, oh, well,
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: because I have an app on my Facebook that tells
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: when amboy deletes me.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: And yeah, so I actually I was like, you know,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: I don't even care anymore. So I took that app
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: off because, like, you know, why even bother right, I'm
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: barely on Facebook anymore anyway, so as most people can tell,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: I'm just like going there and hit this net. But
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: now I'm sorry, now I'm getting off topic. But yeah,
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: the h now I'm talking about face fucking But yeah, no,
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: you know, you're absolutely right. It's like Alex Ferrari, he
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: just had a post on his indie film Hustle dot
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: com blog where he said, don't hire somebody just because
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: they have a very good looking camera. That is a
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: mistake that I made one time. And the guy. The
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: guy was talented, but he was also insane, and by
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: the end we were fighting back and forth. He was
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: fighting with everybody, and you know, everyone kind of gave
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: me the eye, like you hired this guy, and I said,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: you know, I was like, guys, I'm sorry, I try
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: to fire him. The producer wants to keep him because
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: he's got you know, the red camera and he's got this.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: But it was a complete, you know, disaster and final
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: and I afterwards like I was so burned out of
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: the project. I didn't want to talk about it anymore.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: I was just, you know, I told the producers, you know,
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: that guy completely sapped all the energy, because I mean,
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: you you know, Boujeon. You know, when you go into
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: a film set, anybody and it's whether it's you, me,
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: Quentin Tarantino, robber Rorie, we all have a finite amount
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: of energy and patience and everything else, you know, we
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: we all have at the beginning of the day, we
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: have you know that those levels, you know, and as
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: you go on, you know, going through everything, you know,
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: it gets whittled down. Certain things get taken out more
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: than others, you know, but by the end of the day,
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: you know, you're pretty much on empty, you know, physically
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: and mentally and sometimes spiritually. And you know that's when
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: you're you finally realize you know. Wow, it does take
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: a village to raise a child. Sometimes it does take
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: a whole army to make a film. And this is why.
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: And I mean, I don't think most people realize absolutely
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: how exhausting this process is, especially in the film in
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: the in the film world where you know, everything smaller,
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: the budgets are smaller, you know everything, And absolutely, I
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: I have had my fair share of, you know, situations
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: where you know, whether it was dealing. I have been
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: blessed to work with great casts, but you know, there
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: are certain situations where they might not understand that. Look,
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: it's not it's not just about you, you know. I
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: mean again, I'm an actor, and when I'm once said
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: I I understand that there are so many things happening
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: at once, so many so many stars have to line up, uh,
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: you know, line up to to make this one shot
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: and uh, you know, we all have to suck it
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: up essentially, you know, uh, and you know it's difficult.
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: It absolutely is difficult. I mean on you know, on
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: this this set, it was you know, a typical day
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: would pretty much consist of me. I would have my
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: audio guy, I would have you know, my my makeup
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: and prosthetics person and then if I'm lucky, one more
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: person right sort of to help out a little bit
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: of everything, and you know, that's it, you know, and
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: then the actors, obviously, however many there were, so you know,
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: we're not talking, like I said, twenty thirty people on set,
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: because I'm a strong believer that the more people you
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: have on set as crew members, it all slows you down.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: And a you know, it's not about having a lot
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: of people. It's about having the right amount of people,
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: you know. And yeah, sometimes I might go overboard and
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: you know, maybe not having enough, but that's what allows
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: me to shoot seven to ten pages a day, which
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: is what I average. We shut this film in ten days,
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: and you know, it's it's it's an exhausting process. At
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: the end of the day. I mean, I'm the first
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: one on set, I'm the last one to leave, you know.
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: I there have been plenty of days where I wouldn't
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: even eat anything. Not because I don't want to eat,
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: it's because of you know, when when it's lunchtime, I'm
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: going through my shot list and I'm going, Okay, we
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: got to get this done. We gotta do this. I
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: talk to my sound guy. You know, my whoever it is,
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: my prosthetics person, you know, and that kind of stuff.
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: So it's very exhausting. But you know, I do believe
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: that you have to have a certain amount of insanity
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: as a filmmaker to attempt anything in this world, because
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: I think any sane person would go, I I'm good man,
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: I'll stick to my nine to five, you know. So
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: I am blessed with a certain insanity which which keeps
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: me going, you know.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: And you need that, you need that little bit of
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: insanity that when you say at the end of at
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: the end of some of these projects, you'll say, never again,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Never again? Am I going to do this? I don't
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: care what comes along in six month months later. You know,
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: at most you're like, damn, I should go make a movie.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: You know, what the hell's going on here? Uh? Because
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, like you know, my quick you
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: know little story. Uh, it's been about four years since
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: I actually made anything of my my own, like I mean,
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: and that's not say I haven't been on other people's
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: sets or done this or done that. I'm just talking
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: about my own stuff. It's the last thing that produced
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: was about four years ago. And uh, I there's an
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: interesting story about why it's been four years, but uh,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: it's just to be put make a long story short.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: It's it's crazy people. I I we had a crazy editor.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: And I finally looked at the guy that was the
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: director and because I recommended this guy, because all of
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: a sudden, he just kind of went berserk, and uh,
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: I'll tell the story in another podcast, but basically I
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: was like, I apologize. I'm gonna work to figure the
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: you know, to to solve this stuff. And that's uh,
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: that's to that point where I was like, I must
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: be insane to to to keep wanting to come back
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: and be a gluttingham for punishment with this stuff. You know.
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: It's like, my god, I didn't you know? And uh,
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: you know, speaking of you know, of editing, actually one
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: of the questions I want to ask you too, boyon
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: was you know what did you use to uh to
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: edit Project Eugenics.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I used Premiere Pro for editing. I I'm a
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: I'm an Adobe nerd, right, so I use most of
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: most of their products. So yeah, for editing, it was
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: a Premiere Pro. I used to use Final Cut seven
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: a while a while ago. And on My, My, My,
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: last movie, my first movie. I actually was one of
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: those people who switched to Final Cut ten and I
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: actually edited most of the movie in there, and it
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: it did not work out. Just it just my personal opinion,
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: it's not what seven used to be. So I I
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: went back to because before or somewhere in between that
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: I can't remember, I was using Premiere, and so I
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: went back to Premiere, which I I use exclusively now
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: for you know, my editing, and because I love the
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: integration with Premiere Pro and after Effects, you know, just
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: being able to send the sequence into after Effects to do,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: you know, whatever I need to do, and then you know,
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: keep working in it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, I use all the Adobe products as well.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: You can't beat that because all you do is literally
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: you click a button and I edit this podcast and
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: audition and if I you know, when I'm in Premiere,
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: I can click a button and just say send audio
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: to audition, and I can work on all the audio problems.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: I can take up pomps and clicks and stuff. I mean,
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: it's just it's amazingly easier. You actually couldn't get any easier,
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: because I mean maybe you could, but I mean it's
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: just it's phenomenal. The way it works together.
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, I mean, I you know, I I also
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: do graphic and web design related things, so you know,
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: I obviously use Photoshop and illustrator for for all that.
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: And you know, in my opinion, I know a lot
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: of people hated when Adobe switched over to their Creative
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: Cloud subscription based model, and I actually love it. I
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: think I think it's it's it's a great model. You know,
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: I'm constant, We're all constantly getting updates and they're great.
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, just recently I discovered their mobile apps,
• 48:10
  Speaker 5: so you can actually create a lot, you know, a
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: color lookup table using your phone. You just take a
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: photo of whatever, I would say, a sunset, and it
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: will create those colors and you can apply that to
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: your video footage. And it's amazing, you know, just the integration,
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: which goes back to what I you know, what I
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: said earlier, earlier, The advancements in this field, I mean
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: technology in general, but especially this field are so incredible.
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: I mean, there's really no excuse not to make a film,
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: you know, whatever type of film, it doesn't matter. You know, yes,
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: twenty thirty years ago, it was you know, ten times
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: more difficult, and you know you needed to ask for permission,
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: right like like Jason always talks about asking for permission. Nope,
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: we're done with that. I'm not going to ask anyone
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: for permission, you know. I'm you know, able to make
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: my films the way they are. And obviously I want
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: to grow the budgets and all that. I don't want
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: to keep making five thousand dollars movies. But I'm not
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: asking anyone for permission, you know. And that's extremely empowering
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: and it really allows you to tell your story. You know,
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: whether people like the movie or not, I have no
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: impact on that. But this is my story. This is
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: it's truly a director's cut. There's no you know, no
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: one interfering, you know.
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: You know that That's That's what you know a lot
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: of filmmakers are doing now is they don't want you know,
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: they don't have to ask for permission. They don't have
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: to you know, wait for someone's notes to come in
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: after seeing the dailies anymore. You know, it's they can
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: go out and they can they they're the ones calling
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: the shots. For instance, like m Night Shyamalan, that's what
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: he does now because you know, after he made After Earth,
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: he said, I don't want to do this whole studio
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: system anymore. So we went out, made the visit.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: And it was a lot more successful for him, both
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: financially and you know, as an artist, because now he
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: didn't have anybody telling him, you know, what to do,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: because he could do it himself. You know, he he
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: made all his own calls. There was no notes. Don't
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: want to look over his shoulder, and that's you know,
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: that's when value as a filmmaker. Robert Riguez also was
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: talking about that recently when he said, you know, I'd
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: rather have less money and more freedom than you know,
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: more money, and I have to answer to ten thousand people.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: He said, you know, it's I'd easily rather have less money.
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, I mean, I'm right on board with that statement.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, I you know, I mean, my one of
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: my goals is to show people, you know that, Okay,
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: this is what I can do for five thousand dollars.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: And by the way, that's five thousand Canadian dollars, which
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: in US is like two bucks nowadays worth nothing apparently,
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: but anyway, So that's you know, that is my goal.
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: And I actually I have absolutely no desire to make
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: like one hundred or one hundred and fifty million dollar
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: blockbuster movie. I really don't because, knowing myself how passionate
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: I get about these things, I probably get fired, you know,
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: for picking a fight with with the wrong executive and
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: all that stuff. And I you know, so those stories
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: don't interest me because I think for you know, for
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: one million. I mean, you know, you look, especially in
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: the horror field. Another one of my favorite directors is
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: James Wont you know he made the first Saw movie
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: and the Insidious movies and all that, and I mean
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: you look at just those movies, all of them, all
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: the Insidious movies. I think the first one had a
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: budget of eight hundred thousand, I think somewhere around there.
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: And then you know, the budgets grew slowly, but they're
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: still in a couple of a few million dollar range.
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: And you look at those movies and man, they're amazing.
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: I mean, the horror fan in me, you know, if
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: you're into horror, I love it. And from a production
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: point of view, I think it's done very well, you know,
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: So you know, I think, you know, I mean, Spielberg
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: talked about you know this, and Lucas too about, you know,
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: the implosion of Hollywood, which my opinion is, I think
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: something will happen in the next you know, a little
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: bit the way I kind of see it. You know,
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: if you look at the history of Hollywood, you know,
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: back in the late sixties, when when the studio system
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: fell apart, right and you had corporations buying all the
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: studios and making the movies, and you know, that was
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: sort of the first, uh, the first or the second
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: wave technically, you know, the first wave was the one
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: that started, and you had the second wave with the corporations,
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: and I kind of look at this as the third wave,
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: which is us indie guys, call it the YouTubers, whatever
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: you want to call it doesn't matter who are able.
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: And I'm not talking about you myself here, I'm talking
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: about in general. There's certainly plenty of other directors who
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: are able to do much more than I am with
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: small budgets. And you know, you look at the stuff
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: that they're doing for virtually nothing, you know, and yes,
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: most people don't get paid on those sets. But you
• 53:22
  Speaker 5: know what I have there are indie projects who that
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: cost one hundred, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars and
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: people still don't get paid, you know. And then you
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: look at movies where you know, like five thousand or
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: ten thousand. Well, you know, I think if you make
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: a movie for ten thousand, just give the person out
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: of ten thousand, then everyone would get paid, you know
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: what I mean, but it would still be a great product.
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: Whereas you start wondering, okay, the you know, millions and
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: millions of dollar budgets, what happened?
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: Man?
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: You know, where's the quality? Where you know, did everything
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: go towards the catering budgets? You know what I mean?
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: It was like, you know, you start to wonder, and yeah,
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: so I firmly believe that we are part of the
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: next wave, so to speak, because at the end of
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: the day, you know, you can't keep having budgets in
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: the two hundred million dollar range.
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: Look at you know, the recent Terminator movie. I mean,
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: if it wasn't for China and the money they made
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: their the movie obviously Flopped's let's not kid ourselves. You
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: can say whatever you want. In North America, the movie flopped,
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: but it didn't have to. It could have been something.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: I was praying it would be something as I was
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: watching it. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: change coming our way, and you know, I think in
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: the end it will be positive change if we just
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: stick to our guns and you know, say, you know, look,
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: we can tell these stories. And you know I'm not
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: you know, if a producer comes to me and says, listen,
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: we have a couple of million we want you to
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: direct this movie, you know, I'm not going to be
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: like na, na, I'm an indie guy. Now, No, I'm
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: going to take the money. I'm going to make a movie.
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: But absolutely, you know, you're not stupid. But at the
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: at the same time, if you came to me, you
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: obviously trust that I can bring something to it. So
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: let me tell my story, you know, And that's easier
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: to tell. It's easier to have the conversation with someone
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: when you're talking about a two million dollar production versus
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: a two hundred million you So, yes, it's you know,
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: I think a lot is going to happen, and some
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: of it is already, you know.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I wonder as I was talking to
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: my last podcast interview with Brad Wilkie. You know, a
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: lot of this I think is it's so accessible now
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: and we always talk about who is going to rise
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: to the top. Is it just so overcrowded that it
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: takes a rare instance of you know, the perfect storm
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: of a network of money, of this and that to
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: rise to the top. Or is it just still the
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: old fashioned way where everything's still just gonna rise at
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: the top based upon quality, meaning like you know, the
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: Reservoir Dogs is still gonna rise to the top those
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: types of movies. I actually feel both are trope. Personally,
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: I think that you know, even with you know, the
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: influx of new filmmakers now just in the past year
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: or two, I really do think that you know, you're
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: gonna see the quality projects are always gonna go to
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: the top. You're gonna cause you know, you always trust
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: your friends most of all. So if your friend tells you, hey, listen,
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: go watch you know whatever movie, most of the time
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: you're gonna listen to them. You're gonna say, hey, okay,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: I'll sit down, I'll carve out the time. But you know,
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: I think with the you know, with a lot of
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: these superhero movies. I think that's gonna cause a lot
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: of burnout. But then again, I said that like two
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: years ago, and then there's still you know, cheerning them out,
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: and there's still number one at the box office. And
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: now Star Wars is coming out, and that's, let's face it,
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: that's the unstoppable force right now. I don't I don't
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: eve think Star Wars is a movie anymore. I think
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: it's like a I don't even what. It's almost like
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: a need now. It's almost like on the mazows hierarchy
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: of needs. It's like Star Wars and then food and
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: shelter and feelings of safety. I mean, it is just
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: a phenom. I mean, and I see all these spinoffs
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, you know what, they could have one
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: hundred spinoffs. They could have movies come out until everybody
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: right now is passed and our great great grandchildrens to
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: watch them. And you know what, I don't think it's
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: ever gonna stop. If they could just keep finding a
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: new character to expand on, Like hey see that guy
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: in the cantina, Well that's you know, Rebulon six, and
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: he's gonna, you know, do something now, and it's all
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: just you know, it's it's just all the continuation of
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: this universe.
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: Hey man, don't underrestimate. Don't underestimate Rebulon six man, that
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: guy's gotta going you know. Oh absolutely, Look, you know,
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: I mean it's human nature to yearn for entertainment. I
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: mean this has been true way before there have been
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: movies and television and all that. I mean, you know,
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: we want to be entertained, you know, so that will
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: always be there. But I do believe I agree with
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: you in the sense, you know, the way I see it,
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: I don't want the big blockbusters to go away, you know,
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: because you know, if you want to tell a an
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: epic story, like a Star Wars type of story, you know,
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: there are certain budgets needed. That's what I'm saying. You
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: can't make everything for you know, low budget. But I
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: don't think that every movie needs to be that. You know,
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: the problem, in my opinion, the problem is that, I mean,
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: good god, we have comedies now that cost sixty seventy
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: million to make. Dude, it's a comedy. As long as
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: you make people laugh, you're fine.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: You know. You know.
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: Why Why is my question? So, you know, I think
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: it just I just think it needs to you know,
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: balance itself out sort of where you know, we still,
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: you know, I still want to see the big blockbusters
• 59:04
  Speaker 5: coming out, you know whatever, a few of them a
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: year and all that, but that should be a small segment.
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: The rest of it, you know, should be you know,
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: reasonable budgets and at the end of the day, it
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: all goes back to story. I actually I don't go
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: to the theater as much as I used to because, frankly,
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: when I look at you know, I look at some
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: of the movies, I'm like, I don't think it has
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: a knowing, like I said, knowing how story, the story
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: has suffered in a lot of movies. I just go,
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: you know what, I don't trust that this is going
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: to be a good story. So I just don't go,
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: and I wait until it's on not flake saying, you know,
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: then I give it a shot, and you know, sometimes
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: it's good, sometimes it isn't.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: And now back to the show.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: So if you make if you really focus on the
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: story and you and and the crucial part, which I
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: don't know why execs seem to have a problem with that.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: If you hire a director because you think he or
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 5: she is good. Let them do their job, man, you know,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 5: let them do their job. If they're not good, then
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: don't hire them in the first place. So, you know,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: I think all that. You know, like I said, the
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: story needs the story needs to be number one. You know,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: we're now at the time where we don't get wowed
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: anymore by by technology, by by CG and all that.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: And you know, I saw the New I'm sure you
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 5: have two the new Batman versus Superman or Superman versus Batman,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: you know whatever. The worder is a trailer, and uh,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm more interested in the story, in the
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: conflict between them, not so much about the CG because
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: I know the CG will be fine. You don't have
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: to pimp it. You know, it's twenty fifteen. We're we're
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: able to do some amazing stuff with CG. So tell
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: me more about the story, you know, That's what I'm curious.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of studios make the mistake
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: where they show you all the CG, all the explosions,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah, and you know, no offense. It starts
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: to look like a Michael Bay movie. You know, Uh yeah,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: I mean you know, so yeah, like I said, it's uh, yeah,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: I agree. I absolutely agree. I think on one hand,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: it won't go away. But on the other hand, I
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: I do think certain things will change, you know what
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: It's I concur I think certain things will change because
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean we always talk about, you know,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: theatrical releases too, and you know, there there was always
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: that discussion of you know, if you know, independent films
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: should try to go get a theatrical release. Now you
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: actually had a theatrical a theatrical screening, and I don't
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: know was that for one night or was that for
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: a couple.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: Of nights or yeah, it was it was one night.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Okay. Now, I mean, now do you feel because you
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: do this for one night? Then so do you feel
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: that that may have helped you or do you feel
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: that maybe next time you wouldn't do that again?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: Uh, that's a good question. I I do feel uh.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm happy with the turnout because we had
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: it on a Tuesday evening, rainy Tuesday in Vancouver, and
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: you know, I was able to get people out. So
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 5: that's an accomplishment considering I'm a I'm a nobody, no
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: name filmmaker. Now, for the next one, I don't think.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: I don't think it has to happen. No, I I
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 5: don't think a theatrical release is crucial. I honestly, I
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: don't know if I'm going to do it for the
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: next one or not. For this one, I really wanted
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: to do it because I felt that I had a
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: certain momentum going, you know, and I felt that, Okay, this,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: this could help, so let's just do it. And uh,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 5: you know, like I said, I'm happy with the turnout
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: and all that. But I think we're now at the
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: time where, you know, including myself, like I said earlier,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 5: I don't really you know. For example, you know, my
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: wife and I bought tickets for Star Wars obviously, like
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: a month ago. I would actually if I could stream
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: that sucker in my living room or my nice big
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: string TV, you know, in two weeks whenever it comes out,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: I'd be gladly. I'd be happy to do that, you know.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: I I you know, I don't care about seeing it
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: in the theater because, like I said, if I could
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: stream it here in the comfort of my own home
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: and have a good time and you know, popcorn and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: all that, I'm cool with that. So I think, you know,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: people's mindset has changed a lot when it comes to that.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: I uh, In my opinion, your movie should be available
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: wherever it can be available, you know, sort of like
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 5: the Netflix model, because how people watch your stuff has
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: changed drastically. You know, I have I have a fifteen
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: year old cousin and I always like to use them
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: as a as a guinea pig. And you know, I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: asked him and a couple of his buddies, you know. Okay,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: so I was curious, do you guys care about cable?
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: And they're like, no, you know, we care about the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: shows we watch. Okay, cool? So the shows you watch,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: do you care about watching it on a TV or
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: how do you watch it? I'm like, I don't know.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: I watch it however, I however, I want on my
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: phone on my tab blah blah blah. So you know,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: there's no you know, I think with our generation and
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: certainly with the old generation, you know, the prime sort
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: of experience of watching a movie is obviously the theater
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: and then you know at home. Now with these guys, nah,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: the only thing they do care about doing on the
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: big screen is gaming and you know, that's that you know,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: they want on the big screen, but other than that,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: you know they're okay with watching a movie on the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 5: or show on their phone. So yeah, going back to
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: your question, I think it has helped and I'm happy
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 5: we did it. I'm not sure if I'm going to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: do the next one, honestly, I'll be cause you know,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: it might be two three years by the time we
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: make the next one, and who knows how much will change,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: you know, how the landscape will change by then, you know,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: hard to say.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. And by the way, I actually looked
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: it up. As of this recording de Sember the seventh,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: five thousand Canadian dollars equals thirty seven hundred and fifty
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: five cents US dollar. So there, yeah, there, there's that.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: I wanted to look that up. So so now we
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: we have a thirteen hundred dollars surpflus now from filming.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: But so you know, you ended up putting the movie
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: on VHX and it's available now. You you know, you
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: actually have a ton of extra footage on there, actually sorry,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: bonuses on there. You have you know, you have an
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: audio commentary, you have a behind the scenes look you
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: have this special effects toil that you did. You have
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: your screenplay on there too, you know. Is there a reason,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: you know, why you chose VHX over maybe putting it
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: on YouTube or any or you know, even trying to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: get it on Netflix.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 5: Well I haven't ruled out Netflix yet. So but the
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: reason I went with vh X I use them for
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: my first movie as well, and I just liked how
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: because they're still relatively you know, a relatively new company,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: and I like how they're constantly improving their service.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: I'm I don't get paid to do and say any
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: of this, you know, just my opinion, but I do
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 5: like that every once in a while they're like, hey,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: you can have this feature. Now you have this feature.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: So they seem to understand that the landscape is changing rapidly,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: so they're you know, keeping up. And I just love
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: the fact that, you know, I can upload all my
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: stuff whatever I want. I can set the price, you know,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, they take their cut from each transaction, but
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 5: they don't dictate me, you know, how much I should
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 5: sell a movie for for example, iTunes. They do tell
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: they do have their set prices last.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: Time I checked.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 5: Anyway, can be wrong about that. So and you know,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 5: and you have all the stats in terms of who
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: downloaded or purchased your movie, rented your movie, whatever it is.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: So that was really the main reason. Just control. You know,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 5: at the end of the day, you know, I you know,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: you get used to as an indie guy, you do
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 5: get used to a certain amount of control you have
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: over your project, right, and you know, you spend so
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: much time and energy, you know, making it, and you
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: know it would really suck that when it comes to distribution,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: all that gets taken away from you, you know, which
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: is usually what does happen on So that was the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: reason why I like a company like VHX. Now having
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: that said, you know, I, like I said earlier, I
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: wanted to be available everywhere, you know, and you know,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: that's like I said, in my opinion, how we view
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: and consume entertainment has changed drastically. You know, I don't
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: have cable because I I you know, the entertainment I
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: watch is accessible via YouTube, via Netflix, you know, whatever
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: service it is, and that's good enough for me, man,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: you know. So yeah, that was that was the main reason.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: And yeah, going back to the uh the special features, Yeah,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: I I always most of my film education also comes
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: from making off features on DVDs and Blu rays, right. So,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 5: you know, when we moved to Canada in two thousand
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 5: and one, and you know, we that's when I started
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: watching Blue rays because they weren't available in Europe. And
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 5: when I saw, holy crap, there's an audio commentary. Dude,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: I cannot watch the movie and the director is talking
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 5: about what I'm watching, you know, how he did it
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: and all that stuff, and it was it was, you know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god moment. So, you know,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 5: except most of my education comes from that, and I
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: always feel I want to do the same.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: It's I guess it's a it's a way of you know,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: giving back if you want to call it that, you know,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 5: because I feel, I feel the more there are indie filmmakers,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: you know, the better it is for everyone, because all
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: of us will collectively sort of raise this industry to
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: a level where you know, we can actually make money
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: doing this. You know, it's not just Okay, let's put
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 5: my own money into this and you know you're never
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 5: going to see anything from it. So yeah, that's the reason.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh, you know, Jason Bruberger was saying, you know,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: some of these distribution deals are just completely inane, you know,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: and nobody in the right mind would would go for him.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: I actually knew somebody who they actually made. I probably
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: put about ten thousand another movie.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: And they were trying to distribute it. And when the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: time came, they only had one company that was willing
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: to pay them, and they were going to pay him
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: something ridiculous, like I think it was like a thousand
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: bucks or six hundred bucks, and they would have the
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: rights for the movie for five years to show the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: movie in like some foreign country, and I think it
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: was like I think we even Cambodi or something. And
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: the filmmaker was like, what the hell kind of distribution
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: deal is this like? And they got full rights to
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: the movie too, so for those five years he couldn't
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: sell it to anywhere else. It was all about. So
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: it was really odd, and I don't know what they
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: ended up doing with it, but you know, I think
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: this is the you know, the future too, where we
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: if we did have a theatrical run with a film,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: I think it should be it probably will end up
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: being available the same day or maybe the day after
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: on maybe a VHX or maybe you know of YouTube
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: or even a digital download directly from that person's site.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: And you know, hey, listen, it's ten bucks and or
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: whatever the hell it might be, and you can get
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: the bare bones version. You can get this version. Then
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: you you know what Draft House Films does. Hey, look,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: you can get the film, but then you also get
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: a T shirt and or if you want the next package,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: you get a poster with it. In the next package,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: you get the vinyl record with it. And you know,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: I think stuff like that, the you know, having those
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: up selling packages and stuff are going to be the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: future as well. And you know, and I think it's
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: just going to be a begin about is going to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: be again, excuse me, about building that market, building that audience,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: making sure you have a high quality project that you
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: can actually do with the resources you have, and you know,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: maybe not shooting too high for the moon, and you know,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: crowdfunding and you know, keep working that audience and you know,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: seeing what you can come up with, and you know,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: and just you know, and building from there. You know,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: there's a there was a really good article about you know,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: if you do build an audience for a film, you know,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: what do you do with that audience after the film
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: is over? You just sort of say, hey, guys, uh,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: well it's been fun. It's been a fun year, you know,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: us building this. So that's one of the things too,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: I think has to change is how people market films.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: I think Facebook fan pages, honestly, starting a new one
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: for every film you do. I think it's gonna get
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: a little like ludicrous after a while, because I know
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: people who have like seven eight different Facebook pages for
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: different films they've done, and then they have to Then
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: there's that audience, and then there's this audience. But I
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: think maybe if you had it under one umbrella, or
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: maybe Facebook could change this, but or may if you
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: had it just for your production company. It's it's stuff
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: like that that I think are really gonna be key
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: to making sure that everyone still sees your stuff. And
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: but then again, you know, the email list is always
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: going to be key. That email list is critical because
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, all the social media stuff. We
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: can talk about it for days, but the fact is
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: it's rented space and they can change it without warning.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 4: They can change it, they can do whatever they want
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: and they never have to tell us about it. Un
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: and they know, almost an explanation because after all, it's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: a free product, and you know, they you know, they're
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: the ones putting on the money for it, and we're
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: just sort of renting that space out.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: Oh. Absolutely, absolutely, I mean going back to the whole
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 5: having multiple pages. Absolutely. I mean, I, you know, I
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: have my my mail list mailing list, and initially when
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 5: I when I put that together, I actually talked to
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: someone about that, and I a person who had his
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: own mailing list that I was subscribed to, and I
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: asked him what should I do? Should I have one
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: for this movie, for this blah blah? And he, to
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: his credit, said no, no, dude, have one, trust me.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: And so that's what I did my you know, I
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 5: treat my mailing list as a sort of like a
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: VIP area. You know, if you subscribe to it, you
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: will always be the first one to get you know, clips.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 5: For example, if you go on the website project to
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: gen X, you can watch the first three minutes and
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: whatever it is forty seconds of the movie for free.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: Right Well, that was available to my newsletter subscribers months ago, right,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: so they were able to see it. And then you know,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: whenever I have coupon's discounts and all that stuff, they
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 5: are the first ones to you know, find out about
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: it and not just about this movie. Then you know,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: whenever I have videos for my YouTube channel, they are
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: the first ones to get notified. So you know that
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: that's my way of building an audience and you know,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 5: rewarding them. And to me, that's really how, you know,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: how we're going to rise in this, in this industry,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 5: in this in the industry, because at the end of
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: the day, it all comes back to the fan base.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: You know. You look a guy like Kevin's Smith another
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: good example, you know, who really has sort of cut
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: himself off from Holly like mainstream Hollywood in terms of filmmaking.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 5: Who is you know, making more of his own stuff.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: Well he's allowed, he's able to do that because he
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: has had almost twenty year career in Hollywood.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't have that, you know, so I have
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 5: to I have to adapt a slightly different model, which
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 5: you know, hopefully it's not going to take me twenty
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: years to get there. But you know, you look at
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 5: you look at YouTube guys, which that's sort of the
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 5: model I'm adapting. You know, film right is a great
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: YouTube channel, uh where you know, you talk all about
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: film related stuff and they have their fan base. And
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 5: you know, that's the approach I'm taking, which is, Okay,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 5: this is the stuff I do. I talk about film
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: related stuff, whether it's gear, whether it's techniques, all that stuff.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: Subscribe to my newsletter. You know, you'll you'll get a
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 5: book as free, which is I think it's called how
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 5: to Make a Movie in your Own Living Room, which
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: talks about my first movie. And then you know you'll
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: be the first one to get all my info, oh
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: my sorry, all my promo stuff and and all that stuff.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: And you know, it's it's working. I mean, it's it's
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: it's definitely growing, and I'm happy with it. You know,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: it's certainly not there where I wanted to be at
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 5: this point, but yeah, it's growing. So that's that's the
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 5: main thing, and that's how we have to look at it.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: I know a lot of filmmakers, uh, you know, young
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 5: filmmakers are generation who are still trying to adopt the
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: old model. You know, who aren't as active online, who
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: don't have their own fan base and all that, and look, everyone,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 5: you know, there are people every year who succeed with
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: the old model. You know, you you write a script,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 5: you it gets noticed by the people, you get your funding.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 5: That's all great, but that's a very small percentage, you know,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 5: And I don't want to build, you know, put all
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 5: my hopes and efforts into something that ultimately, yeah, might
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 5: never be seen by anyone, you know. And that's that's
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: also why I have, you know, an issue with film
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 5: festivals these days, where you know, I love film festivals.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: That's all great, but the reality is, you know, ten
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: years ago you might film festival X may have received
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 5: two hundred submissions. Now it's two million, you know, or
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: who knows, however, So yeah, it's a lot more difficult
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: to stand out. And I, you know, I just think
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: by building your own audience, by you know, having people
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: dedicated to you and what it is that you were doing,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 5: will in the long run help you. And there's a
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 5: lot of examples of that where you know, it works
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: on YouTube and on online in general.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's very true. And you know, one of
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: the other things that I've noticed is is that once
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 4: somebody gets a following on YouTube, they tend to go
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 4: right to Patreon and they start a Patreon account to
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: get some you know, to have people actually you know,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: fund them, whether it be five ten, you know, fifteen
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: dollars a month. I actually was researching Patreon and some
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: of them, some of those channels are pulling down a
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 4: pretty good amount of money per month. I'm talking like thirteen,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: fifteen thousand per month. Now, I don't know, this is
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 4: what I always want to have a Patreon. I don't
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: know how that divvys up between the members or if
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: that's just all has to go towards art or if
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: they're quitting their day jobs, and who the hell knows,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: because I guess it's a case by case situation. But
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: you know, but I mean, you know, so there's a
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: lot of options now, which is a good thing. You know,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: it's not a war of eye it's not a war
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 4: anymore to get your film made. It's a war of
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: eyeballs and ears. So you know, you just have to
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: sort of chug along and figure out how Again, like
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: we were saying when we started, you know, how how
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: are you going to stand out? You know, how are
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: you going to stand out from the pack? And you
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: know how are you going to make sure that you know,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: people know who you're you know, as soon as people
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: put your movie, and how are they going to know
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: it's your movie? How are they going to know your style?
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: And I think it's you know, I think that's a
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: challenge now is finding a voice, because I know I
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: I struggle to find my voice sometimes it's even in writing,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: even you know, when it's just me with a memo
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 4: pad and a pen, because I still do old school.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: I try to disconnect from technology when I'm writing. I don't.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: I I save the laptop and the and the other
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: stuff for later on, but for now it's just you know,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 4: a pen and a paper, you know. But h so
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: you know that that's you know, I now I lost
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: track now I'm talking about pens of papers. But but no,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 4: I think you know that's you know, there are these
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: options out there now, and you know, I think a
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: lot of filmmakers are trying to figure out, you know,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: how to actually how to actually make it work for them.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 4: As what I'm trying to say.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, and look, by no means have I figured
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 5: it out. I just want to say that I figured
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 5: out a lot, like I said, how to make a movie,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 5: but when it comes to distribution, that's still you know,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 5: that's a beast on its own. And you know, on
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 5: one hand, you just have to understand that things are
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: changing constantly, you know, and the things we talk about
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 5: right now, you know, a month from now, there might
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: be another service that comes out that just wol blows
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 5: it out of the water, right, So you have to
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: be open to change. You can't be stuck in the
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 5: old ways because you know, and I understand, the traditional
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 5: way of making and distributing a movie has been there
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: for what sixty years, sixty plus years more than that,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: So I get it, you know, it was it's that's
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 5: that's a that's a significant time, significant time in you know,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 5: in that industry. But much like when the first digital
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 5: cameras came out ten ish years ago, you know, things
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 5: have changed and things are changing and you need to
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: understand that. And I get why a Steven Spielberg type
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: doesn't really care about it because he doesn't have to,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: you know, but a Bobi Andullah Big type has to,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 5: you know, because I I don't have any of that
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 5: of of what Steve Spielberg has, So yeah, be open
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 5: to change and simply embrace it. And you know, understand that,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 5: you know, making a movie nowadays is not actually that
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: difficult anymore. You know, it's difficult, but not as much.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: It's really what do you do to get it noticed,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: to get it seen?
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 5: That that's really what we need to tackle. And that's
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 5: what I'm constantly trying to figure out. You know, I'm
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: not worried about my next movie how to make it.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, of course I'm not going to be an
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 5: arrogant prick and you'd be like, oh, I got it
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 5: all figured out. I don't, you know, But my bigger
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 5: concern is, Okay, how do I get it seen? How
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: do I frankly make money? You know, you have to
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 5: make money off of it, because, like I said, you
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: how else you're going to keep going and make more movies,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: you know, So that's a challenge. And but the more
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: services come out like Patreon, like VHX and all that,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 5: it makes me feel good. You know, I want an
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: explosion of those services because eventually we'll figure out something
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 5: that is sustainable within that.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 4: You know, Yeah, and that's you know, that's true too,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: because you know, making money or making a profit on
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: this is again it's how you make your next film,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: unless you if you go go in and make a
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: movie and it's the goal is just for experience or
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: what have you, and you spend like two thousand bucks
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: and you're just like, look, I'm gonna put up on YouTube.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: I don't maybe this will give me some hits, maybe
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: give me some subscribers, but I'm not gonna do the
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: for the you know, to make a profit or try
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: to sell this, then that's fine that, you know, but
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: if you're serious about making this, you know, as a profit,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: you know, makeing it profitable, you have to actually have
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: a business plan. You have to think this way. You know.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: You can't just sort of go in and say, well,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: I hope things work out, you know, because eventually someone's
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: got to come along. And this is a story I'll
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: say for another time, but I have a friend of
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: mine and he had the attitude and finally somebody, a
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 4: big distributor came to him and actually asked him for
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: those materials, those business materials, those accounting materials and everything else,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: and he was like, I don't have anything. I have
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: no I can't give you the budget. I can't give
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: you this, I can't give you that. And there's a
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: couple of things they asked him for and eventually they
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: they just sort of walked. Very interesting story. I mean,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you some time or I'll bring him want
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: to tell it. But but you know, like you said,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of options out there, and you know,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: but yeah, we've been talking for about, you know, about
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: an hour twenty now, so you know, you know, in closing,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: is there anything you wanted to maybe say, any final
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 4: thoughts or closing thoughts you want to out of this conversation, you.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 5: Know, just onan obviously, thank you for having me. I
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 5: really appreciate it, and you know, A love what you're doing.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 5: Keep doing it.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: We need guys like you, you know.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 5: I just want to just generally tell everyone, you know,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 5: if you want to make a movie, make it.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: Do it.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 5: Obviously, be smart about it, think about all those things
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 5: we've been talking about, but just do it. Man, Life's
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 5: way too short. And like I said, if you're smart
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: about it, you can do all kinds of things. Also,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 5: if you are curious about my film, go project eugenics
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 5: dot com. You can rent it or you can purchase
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 5: just a movie, or there's a Filmmaker Edition which has
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 5: the making of features we talked about. And also I
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 5: have a promo quote that I created just for the
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: listeners here. If you get the Filmmaker Edition and just
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 5: punching in the coupon section Punching podcast, and you'll get
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 5: thirty percent off. So it's actually for you Americans, it'll
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 5: be even better. Oh no, wait, I'm trying to think,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: think is it in US or Canadian? Anyway, it'll be
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 5: either better. It will be the things, So yeah, it'll
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 5: be It's fourteen ninety nine and then you'll get thirty
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: percent off of that for the Filmmaker Edition. So and yeah,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 5: if anyone has ever any questions, just you know, ask me.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 5: Uh you can email me at info at dullabic Studio
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: dot com du l A B I C. Or just
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 5: look me up online. I'm very easily stockable online.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, I found just so uh here. Yeah. Uh,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: you know, I want to say thank you so much
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: for coming on boy on uh but we almost see.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: Thanks you for coming on and uh, you know again,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: I wish you the best of luck, you know, with
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: not with PROJECTU Jencks, whatever you're doing, the whatever you're
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 4: doing after Project Eugenics and all your future projects.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 5: Thank you, my friend, and again thank you for having
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 5: me and absolutely keep on rocking, my friend.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for the same, buddy.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: Forward slash. Thank you so much for listening to guys.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: As always, keep on writing no matter what.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: Screenwriting dot tv.