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Chronic Illness to Empowered Living with Allie Chandler of UpSell Health · Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy

• 0:05
  Welcome to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy, the podcast where we talk about how to make our lives happier, wiser, and wealthier.
• 0:12
  But first, it all begins with our health.
• 0:14
  I am your host, Mary Meyer.
• 0:17
  Welcome back to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy.
• 0:20
  We have with us today Allie Chandler of Upsell Health.
• 0:24
  And she has had a journey through some illness with limes and pots and mold toxicity.
• 0:32
  And there's a lot of people out there, me being one, who's lived through this kind of stuff.
• 0:35
  And after doing the healing work to heal, she now helps people market their functional medicine and their healing work through the marketing she does with Upsell Health.
• 0:49
  So welcome, Allie.
• 0:51
  I wanted to also mention we have a podcast sponsor, which is Mindy, M-I-N-D, I-I-I.
• 0:56
  And they are an IT company in India.
• 0:58
  They have like 50 people working with them.
• 1:00
  So they can do all the back-end stuff to keep your website safe, your data safe, your customers safe.
• 1:05
  So that's a real good thing for people.
• 1:08
  So Allie, I'm excited to have someone on to talk through some of the struggles that I had that has brought me to, I feel like took out so much of my adult years and other people have struggled with these things with health and you don't know why.
• 1:26
  So tell us a little bit about how, what that was like for you.
• 1:31
  Yeah, that's exactly it.
• 1:33
  I feel like I was sick and I had no idea why for many years.
• 1:36
  So definitely relatable.
• 1:38
  I think, you know, with lime, I hear that story a lot that people are chasing, you know, different doctors and all different diagnoses and testing and everything.
• 1:47
  There's just not a great way to get diagnosed.
• 1:50
  But for me, I was teaching high school.
• 1:54
  I was actually teaching 12th grade writing and decided I was going to go backpack through Europe and that's how I got it.
• 2:02
  I got bitten by a lot of bugs in the Swiss Alps.
• 2:06
  We were camping in some tents at the foot of the Swiss Alps.
• 2:09
  It was very beautiful.
• 2:11
  But basically, yeah, overnight I started having all kinds of symptoms I had never experienced before.
• 2:18
  Like pretty severe.
• 2:19
  I usually am fine if it's, I think it's like a virus or a cold or something, like I'm pretty tough.
• 2:25
  But I woke up the next day and I was just like, I feel like I'm on a boat and I don't like neurologically, my body wasn't computing like this is solid ground.
• 2:35
  I just felt really like off balance and dizzy and vertigo and actually like the ground was moving under my feet, which was very wild.
• 2:44
  And I was having like heart palpitations and heart racing and like really bad migraines and just so many different symptoms.
• 2:53
  And so, you know, traveling and I was young, I was like in my early 20s, maybe mid 20s at the time.
• 3:00
  But you're just like, you know, I'll just keep going.
• 3:03
  It's fine.
• 3:04
  Like I'll get better in a few days.
• 3:06
  And we were there for months, you know, and I didn't get better.
• 3:10
  And I was basically had to fly back to the U.S. and get hospitalized.
• 3:15
  Oh my gosh.
• 3:16
  Yeah.
• 3:16
  And so they had done a lot of different tests, just kind of general checking, you know, blood work and things like that and didn't really find anything conclusive.
• 3:26
  So they gave me a pretty strong round of antibiotics and steroids.
• 3:31
  And I actually crashed after that.
• 3:34
  I got so much worse.
• 3:36
  I feel like my symptoms just like tripled and I basically couldn't get up.
• 3:41
  I was just laying at my parents' house and I had planned to move to California, right?
• 3:49
  Probably a week after I got back from Europe because I got into grad school.
• 3:53
  So that was, you know, what I was going to do after teaching.
• 3:57
  And me being a very stubborn, super type A person, I was like, I'm still going to go because I'm going to be sick either way and I'll just go and I'll drive my car out there and then I'll see some doctors there.
• 4:09
  So that that lasted maybe four years until I even got diagnosed.
• 4:13
  So I totally relate to just being like my health and my entire life has changed and I have no clue why.
• 4:21
  So I'm sure lots of people listening have gone through that, too.
• 4:24
  It seems to be the common thing.
• 4:26
  I know when I when I had it in mind, wasn't quite as dramatic.
• 4:30
  It was just like I got more and more and more fatigued as I was working and I was such a type A.
• 4:36
  Yeah, I feel like I've chilled at this point in my life a little bit, but probably not just in some ways.
• 4:43
  But I just would describe myself as a high energy person, a low energy body at that point.
• 4:48
  I'm like, it's like you're in a cage and you're I felt shame about it because I didn't because I didn't know what it was.
• 4:54
  And for me, it was 17 years before before I actually and it wasn't an official diagnosis because she wasn't a doctor, but I would describe her as a healer.
• 5:03
  I've had her on the podcast, Kara Stoltenberg, but she she was using a QR machine.
• 5:09
  Have you heard of that?
• 5:11
  Yeah.
• 5:11
  Yeah.
• 5:11
  So and within a minute she's like, well, you have Lyme's disease, so we're going to have to deal with that.
• 5:16
  And it was 17 years.
• 5:17
  I had seven kids at that point.
• 5:19
  I can imagine just you can't imagine, of course, just work working through life.
• 5:25
  But yeah, I was so dismissed by doctors when I went in.
• 5:29
  And then I just I didn't go back to try to find another one because it was so dismissive and derogatory.
• 5:37
  Yeah.
• 5:38
  Oh, I had an experience.
• 5:39
  It's interesting to my diagnosis actually came from an energy healer.
• 5:45
  I had seen so many, you know, I went the conventional route and I did like allergies, pulmonology.
• 5:51
  I went to all the conventional specialists, ear, nose, throat, infectious disease, and nobody found anything.
• 5:59
  And then I started seeing an energy healer in Monterey and she saw me the first time and she was like, mold or Lyme, like something is the cause of that.
• 6:10
  She's like, these are the two things that I see most of your symptoms from for people.
• 6:14
  So she actually recommended testing for me.
• 6:19
  And this was in, I think, 2015 was a while back.
• 6:23
  And there really wasn't even great functional testing for Lyme.
• 6:27
  So she had sent me to a place called DNA Connections, which actually looks for the DNA of the pathogens and the spirochetes in your body, which I found interesting because a DNA test to me, I was like, well, that seems pretty accurate.
• 6:42
  There's not many things that could be if you have a positive DNA match.
• 6:46
  So I ended up doing that test and then they found Lyme, but they also found Bartonella, Babesia, Ehrlichia, like all of these co-infections.
• 6:55
  And then she referred me to an integrative Lyme doctor.
• 7:00
  But it's funny because I feel like sometimes the most unexpected people are like the intuitives.
• 7:06
  I don't know if your healer was that way.
• 7:08
  It sounds like it, but immediately she was just like, I think this is what it is.
• 7:12
  Let's figure it out.
• 7:13
  So that's funny that we have a similar path in that way.
• 7:16
  Yeah.
• 7:16
  And literally from the time she turned on the machine, it was under 60 seconds.
• 7:21
  And she's like, she knew.
• 7:22
  So this is what we have to do.
• 7:23
  Wow.
• 7:25
  And yeah, and boy, was that it was brutal in the beginning.
• 7:28
  But so I think so for people who don't really know what to look for with Lyme's or what it is.
• 7:35
  I know the so we have it's it's not a virus or a bacteria.
• 7:39
  It's a spirochete, they call it.
• 7:43
  And there is some there is some noise being made now that it's not naturally occurring that it was maybe made as a bioweapon.
• 7:52
  And which is really, really interesting.
• 7:57
  And how do you how do you know that when it's a government who did it and they're not going to let go of their secrets?
• 8:03
  But so so it goes from.
• 8:08
  You see, I can't even know if I remember, it goes from a bacteria into.
• 8:16
  You tell you tell me, you remember, yeah, it goes, it's like three stages.
• 8:19
  One is granular, one is bacterial.
• 8:23
  And then it's like, what's that third one?
• 8:25
  I don't remember.
• 8:26
  I know.
• 8:26
  But I know that it's what my doctor was saying to me when we were talking about it was that it's very it can get into like all of your organs and your body systems like your it tricks your immune system.
• 8:39
  So it makes it really difficult to even taking like herbs or antibiotics to target.
• 8:46
  And that's why people struggle chronically for so long, because it's sort of like it becomes really hardy, like stuff can't touch it.
• 8:53
  And it's smart, right?
• 8:54
  It can change and do all of these things to evade like treatments.
• 9:00
  It's really wild.
• 9:03
  So, yeah, it's definitely different than like, obviously, standard bacteria and things like that.
• 9:09
  And and I don't know, like kind of what you did for your treatment.
• 9:13
  But my doctor was like, you know, you have so much going on in your body that we can't touch the line right away.
• 9:19
  So we started on some other like we did drainage.
• 9:23
  So we did like lymphatic support, kidneys, liver, colon, like all the basic organs of elimination because he was like, your lymph nodes are swollen.
• 9:33
  You're not going to the bathroom enough.
• 9:36
  Like you got to get these basic things taken care of.
• 9:40
  But we actually did a parasite cleanse before we even got to lime.
• 9:44
  So I thought, you know, pretty interesting because he was like, if I gave you lime herbs and things now, like you would just hurt like you would not be able to handle it.
• 9:54
  So it can be really intense when you're going in and treating it, even with, you know, integrative approaches like I did not feel well for probably nine months during that treatment.
• 10:05
  And then I started kind of seeing the light a little bit.
• 10:08
  But I don't know if that was like that for you.
• 10:10
  It was pretty difficult for me.
• 10:12
  I didn't feel good during.
• 10:13
  Oh, no.
• 10:14
  Do you feel awful?
• 10:15
  Yeah, I think it's actually a parasite.
• 10:17
  I think that's the third stage.
• 10:18
  I think one is bacteria, two is parasite.
• 10:21
  And the third one is like you get that.
• 10:22
  Then it goes into granular and kind of like seeds out and does it again and goes into it again, which is why when you do an antibiotic, it just hits one stage, but it doesn't.
• 10:32
  And so you kind of ruin your digestive system and other things with that.
• 10:36
  And the life can keep going.
• 10:39
  Yeah.
• 10:39
  So if it's if it's like if it comes on fast and you do the antibiotic, that might help some.
• 10:46
  But it's because of those three stages.
• 10:49
  I know I know we we did we did a detox from everything.
• 10:53
  I think part of it from what I was experiencing is that my body was not detoxing either, which is sort of like what you like.
• 11:00
  I couldn't I didn't sweat for all those years.
• 11:03
  Like, yeah, sweating is a detox pathway.
• 11:07
  And this is a pretty important thing, too, for people to think through.
• 11:10
  What are your detox pathways?
• 11:13
  And, you know, it's.
• 11:15
  What goes into the toilet and what you sweat out are the two major ones, right?
• 11:20
  Yeah.
• 11:21
  Yeah.
• 11:21
  No, we this doctor is kind of teaching me that a lot of times people with Lyme may have other co-infections.
• 11:29
  Of course, you might have like experienced, you know, mono as a kid and have chronic EBV or you might have parasites or you might have be living in mold in your immune system is already going into it.
• 11:42
  You're already a little bit struggling.
• 11:44
  So I think a lot of people that I've met on the journey definitely had multiple things going on that needed attention.
• 11:51
  So when you say like, you know, we found out that it was Lyme, it's like you think that there's relief there.
• 11:57
  But there's actually not.
• 11:58
  Like, it's actually like, oh, this is going to be a pretty long journey.
• 12:01
  And there's seven or eight other things we're going to do before we get here.
• 12:06
  And then, of course, there's like the lifestyle changes.
• 12:09
  There's like my at the time I was married, we were living in Monterey, California, and I had just graduated from grad school when it got really bad and didn't have a job yet.
• 12:21
  So we were living in a tiny studio above a two stall garage, the actual size of a two stall garage.
• 12:29
  So my doctor was like, you probably need to get an infrared sauna because you're not sweating and we need to like retrain you to sweat.
• 12:38
  So we've spent probably like four thousand dollars on a nice like wood, you know, no EMF, like no toxin sauna.
• 12:46
  But it's wild.
• 12:48
  Like the things that I did, I never thought I would do a coffee enema.
• 12:52
  I never thought I would be doing castor oil packs on my liver or, you know, dry brushing before the shower.
• 12:58
  Like it was work to get better.
• 13:01
  It was a lot of work and the diet.
• 13:05
  Like, I don't know if you followed a particular diet, but I was reacting to a lot of foods and couldn't really pinpoint it because I think my body was just so overwhelmed.
• 13:16
  But I did the autoimmune paleo diet AIP for a while and it was so strict.
• 13:22
  Like we couldn't it was like meat and some vegetables, but not all vegetables were allowed.
• 13:29
  So not even eggs.
• 13:30
  Like it was so, so strict.
• 13:32
  So it's a lot of commitment.
• 13:35
  I feel like when you're sick.
• 13:37
  But the good news, I guess, for people listening who are still going through that is now I would say I'm like ninety nine percent better.
• 13:45
  I rarely, rarely ever have a symptom that's related to that.
• 13:50
  And I don't have to worry about things.
• 13:52
  It's like you create that capacity and you create that health internally that, you know, I can go out to eat with my friends and get like a steak and fries, which I did last night.
• 14:02
  I had a great time.
• 14:03
  And before I would have been like, well, I can't have fries.
• 14:06
  That's going to send me into like a two week, you know, bloating and, you know, inflammation and everything.
• 14:11
  So the good news is even if it's hard right now for anyone listening, that you can get better and you can create more capacity for yourself so that your body is just like more able to deal with things like that.
• 14:23
  And I think that's like the hope out of it.
• 14:25
  Right.
• 14:25
  Like it was it was really hard, but I don't even really take supplements now, which I feel like I shouldn't say because I was like, what do you take?
• 14:33
  Like, how do you stay well?
• 14:35
  And I'm like, I really don't do much.
• 14:37
  I really just drink water and work out.
• 14:39
  I'm pretty healthy with my eating.
• 14:41
  But it's not like before I felt like I had to take the whole stack to even get through the day.
• 14:46
  Right.
• 14:47
  Like the B vitamins, all like I would feel it if I didn't.
• 14:50
  And now I'm just like, I just wake up, go to the gym.
• 14:53
  That's pretty much it.
• 14:55
  Yeah.
• 14:55
  So you kind of completed that cycle of healing.
• 14:58
  Yeah.
• 14:58
  So that's that's great.
• 15:00
  I know I I use an inference on it, too, as part of it.
• 15:03
  And I didn't do some of the other things you do, which maybe I should have, but we were doing.
• 15:07
  But yeah, I remember detoxing from literally it feels like anything.
• 15:10
  Like for one week we did amoebas.
• 15:13
  I'm like, what is that even?
• 15:16
  Or for maybe more than a week, I think I saw her at least every other week for years.
• 15:21
  Yeah.
• 15:22
  But mold for a little bit.
• 15:24
  Parasites, bacteria, virus load.
• 15:28
  So anything you can really think of, there's probably even more than that.
• 15:32
  Right.
• 15:32
  And and there was some I did a box, this box line box.
• 15:38
  Oh, you put you put a vial under your tongue.
• 15:41
  There's 10 vials.
• 15:43
  And you do that every three days.
• 15:46
  Really?
• 15:47
  I know it sounds like an SSR kit, like a bio.
• 15:51
  I mean, I was even buying something.
• 15:53
  Yeah.
• 15:53
  My clients, I do their marketing.
• 15:55
  Oh, really?
• 15:56
  Yeah.
• 15:57
  It's like a SSR kit.
• 15:59
  It's a boba SSR. They're little tiny, little tiny capsules.
• 16:05
  Yeah.
• 16:06
  And then because I had gotten it, I mean, I had two of my kids who also kind of in utero had gotten it.
• 16:12
  So they took it, too.
• 16:13
  OK.
• 16:14
  And I remember I took a lot of those and then some other.
• 16:19
  Dropper type stuff.
• 16:20
  So that was that was a year long thing, in addition to all the others.
• 16:23
  So we did supplement up a lot.
• 16:26
  Right.
• 16:26
  And I am I'm similar to you, but I'm not doing a lot of them right now.
• 16:30
  Although in the middle of stress, like I'm in stress now and I'm I realize I'm like, why have I not taken these vitamins?
• 16:36
  And I take some like that.
• 16:37
  That did help.
• 16:38
  Yeah.
• 16:39
  But it is not like have to rely on them.
• 16:42
  That's my favorite part is I'm like, if I feel like I'm getting sick or if I feel run down, I know what to do.
• 16:48
  But like my everyday life, I'm not like I'm I'm taking a lot of Jimbrough supplements now, taking like creatine and like some aminos and things like that, just because I'm lifting a lot.
• 16:59
  But it's nothing really that I would consider, you know, like Lyme support or anything like that.
• 17:05
  And so I know it's interesting that people are always like, well, you're just going to have it your whole life.
• 17:09
  It's going to be in like different life cycles and you can't really fully get rid of it.
• 17:13
  But I when I tell you I've not thought about Lyme in like the last three to four years, it's not even like on my radar.
• 17:20
  And I was sick for 10 years, you know, daily thing that I woke up and I didn't have the luxury to not think about it for 10 years.
• 17:28
  And now I'm just like, I don't even remember the last time I really like had to do anything about it, which I'm so grateful for.
• 17:37
  But again, like you said, there are so many components to it.
• 17:40
  And yeah, the coffee enemas were a little a little crazy.
• 17:43
  There were some things where I'm like, is this really going to help?
• 17:46
  But I was so willing to try anything at that point because I felt so awful.
• 17:52
  And the mold, too, I ended up actually living in black mold.
• 17:55
  And that was a whole different story.
• 17:57
  But I feel like often I see like mold and Lyme together.
• 18:01
  I see, you know, like I said, other parasites or pathogens or things together.
• 18:07
  It's often not just Lyme.
• 18:09
  So I just talk.
• 18:11
  Well, there's a there's a there's usually.
• 18:13
  Yeah.
• 18:14
  And especially I think Lyme is I don't know, maybe it just seems like there's a lack of detox pathway going on, which is.
• 18:21
  Yeah, probably epidemic, really, honestly, for most people.
• 18:25
  Yeah.
• 18:26
  We don't have a concept of detox.
• 18:28
  We think it's a simple thing that we do for one day every five years or something.
• 18:33
  Yeah.
• 18:34
  Yeah.
• 18:34
  And I think a lot of it, too, is there's so many more toxins that we're exposed to all the time.
• 18:40
  And I feel like that can't help, like the glyphosates and all the things in our food and water.
• 18:45
  And like, I consider myself pretty I'm pretty conscious of like products I use and food just because I've grown to be that way with all the health issues.
• 18:55
  But even if you're very, very careful and you filter all of your water and I have like air purifiers in my house, I feel like you're just walking out of your house or just exposed to things like it's really there's no way to get around it.
• 19:09
  And so I feel like that doesn't help with our detox pathways and like standard diet and all the things that we're doing.
• 19:17
  And we're not really giving our bodies the support to like clear those things.
• 19:21
  So, yeah, I feel like there's a lot of people that are struggling with that that don't know why.
• 19:26
  And I feel like some of it is just we're alive in the world right now and there's toxins everywhere, everywhere.
• 19:31
  And it's so hard to like you can be so perfect with everything that you're doing and you just you're going to get exposed, like just breathing the air.
• 19:40
  Yeah.
• 19:40
  Well, and it's it's increased the last two years even.
• 19:43
  So, I mean, I was really worried about it in the early 90s, which is when I got lines.
• 19:47
  And so it it has gotten worse every year.
• 19:51
  I mean, it just that the last couple of years, it's just like, oh, it's scary because you can't you can't do it in rage.
• 20:00
  Yeah.
• 20:01
  Well, one person can't.
• 20:03
  And I just like I feel like that the the hope is that everyone understanding what's going on will create a difference because everyone doing something.
• 20:14
  That's where I'm like, where is there hope in this?
• 20:17
  And I'm like, OK, so they're spraying us with crap.
• 20:21
  Yeah.
• 20:21
  And we know for sure glyphosate is one of them.
• 20:24
  And that just got, you know, that there's other stuff.
• 20:27
  So it just feels like we can't do anything about it.
• 20:30
  It's in the air.
• 20:31
  But I'm like, but these are these places take place on the ground.
• 20:34
  The airplanes take off from the ground.
• 20:36
  It's made somewhere in a factory on the ground.
• 20:39
  Like, you know, like there's people going to work.
• 20:42
  Many steps involved to get there.
• 20:44
  Yeah.
• 20:44
  Yeah.
• 20:45
  So all that stuff is a location that can be stopped if there's enough awareness, I think, and an understanding of it has to stop.
• 20:55
  It has to stop.
• 20:57
  So that's that's where I feel like.
• 20:58
  And it's part of the reason I'm doing the podcast, too.
• 21:00
  I'm like, well, I'm just me, but I'll do something.
• 21:04
  You can educate people.
• 21:06
  Yeah, it's crazy.
• 21:07
  I think a lot of people aren't aware of it, but people like you are definitely helping.
• 21:13
  But even when I was living in California, there were multiple things that I would get like a notice in the mail.
• 21:20
  And there was one time that they were like, we're going to release two million genetically engineered mosquitoes in this area, just letting you know.
• 21:30
  And I called my parents and I was like, I don't want this.
• 21:33
  Like, what what do you mean?
• 21:35
  You made mosquitoes in a lab and you're going to just like put them in the environment.
• 21:39
  But the idea which they explained was that like they're not breedable.
• 21:45
  And then they would like somehow kill the other mosquitoes.
• 21:47
  But I was like, I just feel like this isn't a thing we should be messing with.
• 21:51
  Like, no, I felt very I felt very like out of control of that because it was like this is going to happen no matter if I say anything or not.
• 22:00
  But I feel like if enough people figure out how to speak up about stuff like that or what are the steps to take to call someone to like take a stand or whatever?
• 22:11
  It's like at the time I was like, I don't feel like I have a choice.
• 22:14
  But I also there's so many things that are happening that we're not notified about, right?
• 22:18
  There's so many things that we're exposed to that we're not getting a notice in the mail about.
• 22:23
  But I just thought that was interesting.
• 22:24
  So I was like, we're just genetically modifying bugs and putting them out into the world.
• 22:30
  It's crazy.
• 22:31
  Yeah.
• 22:31
  I mean, you know, the world is run by mad scientists.
• 22:37
  So what do you do?
• 22:38
  You can feel hopeless about that or you can go.
• 22:41
  Yeah, there's more of us than them.
• 22:43
  So what can we do?
• 22:44
  Not with this.
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:46
  Banned together.
• 22:47
  That's the thing is like in creating communities like this that you have here.
• 22:52
  It's really nice.
• 22:53
  Like I just went to a conference two weeks ago.
• 22:57
  It's actually an old supplement company that I worked for called Selcor.
• 23:01
  I feel like, do you know them?
• 23:02
  I don't.
• 23:03
  OK, I feel like you would really like that brand because they they do speak about like cloud seeding and geoengineering and all of these things.
• 23:15
  They're very open about it.
• 23:16
  So a lot of the conference was on those topics.
• 23:18
  But then it's also all for practitioners and health coaches and people.
• 23:23
  And so what do we do about it?
• 23:24
  So it's kind of half like education of here are things happening in the world.
• 23:29
  And, you know, it's it's scary.
• 23:31
  But I feel like everyone there has the same perspective on it.
• 23:35
  And then it's like, OK, well, you're seeing patients who are sicker than they've ever been.
• 23:40
  And protocols you used five, 10 years ago aren't touching the things that they're dealing with anymore.
• 23:46
  So what do we need?
• 23:47
  Like it's like the whole landscape of health and wellness is shifting based on the amount of toxins we're continually exposed to.
• 23:55
  But there are groups that are doing that work, which I think is great.
• 24:00
  And I I worked for them at the very first conference that they did.
• 24:04
  And we had maybe like a hundred people.
• 24:06
  There was, I think, a thousand in person and maybe eight hundred virtual.
• 24:10
  So it's growing, right?
• 24:12
  Like the awareness is growing and people that want to kind of be a part of solutions and speaking up about it, it is growing.
• 24:19
  But it was kind of interesting to like hear the latest on, you know, what's happening in the world and and protocols for.
• 24:27
  I mean, there's so many exhibitors there that had different detox tools and different like lab work and things that you can use to help.
• 24:36
  Because I think sometimes as a patient, when you're sick, you don't know where to go.
• 24:41
  Like you just are like, I don't feel well.
• 24:43
  And I don't know who as a practitioner or a brand like understands me and what's going to help.
• 24:49
  So I feel like that's something that I experience a lot is just, you know, I don't know where to turn because I just feel awful.
• 24:56
  And there's not a good list of people.
• 24:59
  And locally, I mean, I didn't find anyone who was super local to me either.
• 25:04
  So it's like the whole Internet's open for you to try to figure out who to work with.
• 25:09
  So that gets a little overwhelming.
• 25:10
  Yeah.
• 25:11
  And I think, of course, medical doctors and I've had a lot of them on the show.
• 25:17
  I hope they more and more just self-teach and nutrition and all these different methodologies, because we do want people who have a good understanding of the body and stuff like that.
• 25:28
  I have family members and friends who are doctors for sure.
• 25:32
  Also, I have gone to doctors and especially like as you get into menopause, I'm like, you know, let me find it.
• 25:38
  Let me go get, you know, an annual checkup.
• 25:41
  Right.
• 25:41
  And it's just like you're just batting away pharmaceuticals that they're so excited to offer you.
• 25:48
  And this has happened multiple times.
• 25:51
  And it's really, you know, nice female doctors.
• 25:55
  And I just like I'm just like, no, no, no to that.
• 26:00
  Yeah.
• 26:01
  And really one prescription was just handed into my hand, this last one.
• 26:05
  And I'm like, you have to take this one because you have to.
• 26:09
  And I go read the label and like this.
• 26:11
  And it literally says this causes cancer.
• 26:15
  But your doctor believes it's good for you.
• 26:18
  I'm like, OK, so no, I don't need this.
• 26:21
  Well, I don't need it.
• 26:23
  I don't actually.
• 26:25
  Right.
• 26:26
  Yeah.
• 26:26
  So this is my plea to doctors to study all the natural health stuff.
• 26:33
  And there's more of a trend of people doing that.
• 26:36
  There is money to be made in it.
• 26:38
  It's like there's not a lot of money.
• 26:40
  Insurance is taking most of the money from doctors.
• 26:43
  And so there is a way that they can make more income, I think.
• 26:48
  Yeah.
• 26:49
  Offering natural options for people because we're looking for them.
• 26:52
  Definitely.
• 26:53
  Yeah, there's a lot of so being in marketing, I do a lot of market research.
• 26:58
  And, you know, I feel like there's such a high percentage.
• 27:02
  I want to say it's like 72 percent of people in the U.S. are currently taking supplements.
• 27:07
  It's almost 75 percent of people.
• 27:10
  And there's a high percentage of people who are open to, you know, alternative medicine and things like that.
• 27:16
  And I do think throughout and after COVID, people became more open minded to things.
• 27:22
  It seems like those numbers are growing.
• 27:26
  And so I do feel like there's sort of this collective awakening happening where people are like, you know, maybe I grew up my whole life with conventional medicine because I didn't know there were other alternatives or I didn't know where to go for them.
• 27:38
  But I do feel like it's becoming more and more common that people are seeking that out.
• 27:43
  But I do feel like doctors, I mean, at minimum have a responsibility to explain, like the side effects and the potential downside of medication rather than just like, here it is, this is what you're going to take.
• 27:57
  Like I have a friend who has a doctor conventional that she actually loves because the doctor doesn't push anything on her.
• 28:06
  She'll say, here's what's going on with you.
• 28:08
  According to the testing, here's three options, right?
• 28:11
  You can do nothing.
• 28:12
  You can take this prescription.
• 28:14
  Here are the side effects.
• 28:15
  Or you could maybe go this more alternative route.
• 28:20
  And she's super open-minded to educating the patient, which I think is great, right?
• 28:26
  Like the patient is the one in charge.
• 28:29
  It's your health.
• 28:29
  So being an advocate for yourself, I feel like sometimes we don't feel we're in a position to speak up to doctors because like you said, they'll just hand something to you.
• 28:38
  And they're like, this is the answer.
• 28:40
  Rather than as a patient, you should have agency over your health and you should understand the risks and potential benefits and things like that.
• 28:48
  And I don't know that that's always the time taken to explain those things.
• 28:54
  So it's okay to ask, right?
• 28:56
  And I'm sure people have learned that over the years.
• 28:59
  But hey, is there any other option than this?
• 29:02
  Or hey, what's the downside of this?
• 29:05
  And sometimes having those conversations can feel a little bit awkward, but it is good to know.
• 29:11
  And I feel like that's such an important thing that I wish more doctors were open to like, let me explain the potential side effects or the potential downside of this medication too.
• 29:22
  Like are the downsides worse than your health issue that we're trying to resolve some cases maybe?
• 29:31
  Yeah, so giving you more information, I think it's always good.
• 29:35
  I love that concept.
• 29:36
  And I just don't understand why it isn't every single doctor.
• 29:40
  So if there's doctors listening, I'm like, we want this, we want this.
• 29:45
  We want like, and I know some people want to take the pharmaceutical, but like the three options, you can do nothing.
• 29:51
  You can, here's a drug, here's all the side effects and here's the natural options we can do and take.
• 29:56
  And I even have this vitamin line that I vetted at my clinic, so you can buy it from me.
• 30:02
  And now you have, you know, like this ongoing revenue from that versus the perk that, you know, the pharmaceutical drug company gives you for money.
• 30:13
  Yeah, yeah.
• 30:15
  So there's all that.
• 30:18
  I know everyone has to make money and certainly doctors do too.
• 30:21
  So, you know, there's, but there's other ways to do it too.
• 30:25
  So I love the options.
• 30:27
  Yeah, that's great.
• 30:29
  So, Ali, so you transitioned after your healing into doing marketing for healers.
• 30:35
  I'll say that maybe in quotes.
• 30:37
  Because that can encompass a medical doctor or other modalities of people doing work.
• 30:43
  So tell us about that.
• 30:44
  And that's upsell health.
• 30:46
  Yeah, yeah.
• 30:48
  So it's actually interesting how I got into it.
• 30:51
  So the energy healer had referred me to the Lyme doctor that I ended up working with and his name was Dr. J.
• 30:59
  And long story short is he ended up founding that supplement company that I just told you about that the conference I just went to.
• 31:06
  That happened a little bit later, but when I was sick, I ended up working with him and he was down in San Diego.
• 31:13
  I was in Monterey and he was doing a retreat, which he was marketing to like clients or anyone who wanted to come, you know, eat healthy food and learn from him about Lyme and mold and things like that.
• 31:26
  And so my husband at the time was like, we need to go.
• 31:30
  And I laughed because I was so sick.
• 31:32
  I was actually bed bound for two years.
• 31:34
  I couldn't walk.
• 31:36
  And he was carrying me to my doctor's appointment over his shoulder to the car.
• 31:41
  And he's like, let's go to this retreat.
• 31:42
  And I'm like me walking from a car inside like a house at that point was very difficult.
• 31:50
  Like I would call ahead for a wheelchair, any appointment that I had.
• 31:54
  And so I looked at him and I was like, you think I can go up three flights of stairs and do rooftop yoga?
• 31:59
  Like, there's no way.
• 32:00
  But we ended up going.
• 32:04
  And during that retreat, I heard him say he needed help with writing.
• 32:08
  Well, I had just graduated from grad school with a writing degree.
• 32:13
  And so I went up to him and I was like, I know I'm really sick right now, but I would love to work for you.
• 32:18
  Like I was actually doing copywriting for someone else in the industry at the time.
• 32:23
  And he's like, yeah, yeah.
• 32:24
  Like when you get back, just send us your resume or whatever.
• 32:27
  And I was like, no, tomorrow during the retreat, I wanna have an interview.
• 32:31
  Like I just felt like it was the right, I don't know, I felt so aligned with it.
• 32:36
  I just felt like it was the right thing.
• 32:37
  My whole body was like, okay, like you need to do this.
• 32:41
  And so the next day I'm like sitting on the couch, so tired, like just from walking inside.
• 32:46
  And we ended up talking and he was like, okay, like let's give it a try.
• 32:50
  And I think I started by doing like 2000 word blogs, which is very long for like a hundred dollars.
• 32:56
  I mean, it was so, so cheap.
• 32:58
  And they just built up my hours and everything.
• 33:02
  So I ended up working for him as a Lyme doctor doing marketing for like four years.
• 33:08
  And then he created that supplement company.
• 33:10
  And I went over there and kind of got into the supplement side of things.
• 33:13
  They sold the doctors, any practitioners, and they also had a consumer line.
• 33:18
  So that's how I got into this.
• 33:19
  Actually it was like eight years before I started my own business.
• 33:23
  And then there was some things that had, they sold the company and I just was like, okay, I'm gonna go out on my own and start this company.
• 33:33
  And so, yeah, it's been really great.
• 33:35
  Just kind of like having the personal experience.
• 33:38
  Of course I have the writing degree, you can do the copywriting, but having the experience as someone who was really sick and got better, I feel like I have a unique perspective.
• 33:48
  One, I've done so much research in functional medicine trying to heal myself.
• 33:51
  But two, I understand that some of the marketing tactics that are really common don't really work on people who are chronically ill because our nervous systems typically are so dysregulated already that if you come at it with like a very aggressive urgency, fear-mongering, like sometimes that doesn't hit because we're not even in a place to accept the message, right?
• 34:14
  Like we're so just like trying to keep ourselves calm and like get through the day that anything like that I've found doesn't work as effectively as a more like gentle education approach.
• 34:26
  And hey, if this sounds like it works for you, check this out.
• 34:30
  And so I have this super unique perspective because of all of that, but it's such a wild story of like how I got into what I'm doing with my business, just like the firsthand experience.
• 34:41
  And I was talking to one of my friends the other day and I was like, I don't know what I would be doing had I not gotten sick, which is like, of course, nobody wants to go through 10 years of being very like ill, but I do feel grateful that I feel like I'm truly like living in my purpose now and I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing.
• 34:58
  And I feel so excited to like wake up and work.
• 35:01
  I've never had that feeling before owning my own business.
• 35:04
  I've just been like, I cannot wait for Monday.
• 35:07
  I probably am working all weekend anyway, but I'm so excited for my team to like come back on Slack and like start brainstorming with them.
• 35:15
  So it's just, it's interesting because I feel like sometimes your mess can become the message or like your pain can become your purpose.
• 35:23
  And when you're going through it, it's hard to see that.
• 35:26
  But after you've gone through it, you're like, okay, like this was all sort of for a reason and a purpose and I can help other people.
• 35:33
  And I think there's a lot of practitioners and health coaches who have a similar story, I think.
• 35:38
  Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 35:41
  And so glad that you're doing that really.
• 35:45
  So right now you are taking on other, so if someone is in the health and wellness space, you're taking on new clients also, right?
• 35:54
  Yeah, so I just grew my team.
• 35:56
  So I doubled my internal team this year.
• 36:00
  And so they're amazing.
• 36:02
  I have like eight people that work under me now.
• 36:05
  And so we have someone who does websites exclusively and a project manager, a copywriter, designer, like we have all of the components.
• 36:14
  So yeah, definitely supplement companies and practitioners who are just wanting to sort of grow their wellness.
• 36:21
  Yeah.
• 36:22
  That's wonderful.
• 36:24
  So upsellhealth.com, they can go to and find out more about that.
• 36:29
  Yep.
• 36:29
  So tell me a little bit like, how is your messaging different from normal marketing?
• 36:36
  Yeah, so I coined a term called empathy-led marketing.
• 36:41
  And I think that's what I do really well is I can, you know, write an email where I can make the consumer, the client, the patient feel really seen and understood.
• 36:53
  Because I know what I needed to hear when I was sick, right?
• 36:56
  It's very much like a human to human conversation rather than sometimes I feel like when I get emails from certain brands, it's very much like, here's the sale and you need to buy this right now.
• 37:09
  And it's just like, so easy to scroll past that when you're sick.
• 37:13
  But if somebody was like, hey, like, I see you, I see your symptoms.
• 37:19
  Does this sound like you?
• 37:20
  Let me list all these things.
• 37:22
  Well, let me give you some education on what I've learned helps.
• 37:26
  And I feel like I try to stay with my marketing very value forward and education-based, content-based.
• 37:34
  Like I would say 92% of emails I send are education.
• 37:40
  It's video, it's teaching, it's, hey, look at these studies.
• 37:44
  And then maybe there's a CTA that's like, if you're interested in this product, check here.
• 37:50
  It's not ever necessarily like a big focus of most of the emails.
• 37:55
  Of course, you have to make money and I'm very conscious of that.
• 37:58
  But I do feel like there is a way to do it where you're building trust because of course, standard marketing, people need to know and trust you to make a purchase.
• 38:08
  But I think there's a lot of what I do is I create a lot of lean magnets or create a lot of freebies that are just very like chock full of value.
• 38:18
  And then it's like, hey, if you're ready for the next step, we do have a course that covers this topic.
• 38:23
  Feel free to jump in.
• 38:25
  And then they're on our email list.
• 38:27
  So we're sending them, I like to call them little love notes.
• 38:29
  A lot of my clients that are practitioners, I'll just send these like super encouraging, keep going, it's gonna get better.
• 38:37
  You're doing great.
• 38:38
  You're having a very real reaction to physical things happening in your body.
• 38:44
  You're not crazy, right?
• 38:45
  Like we see you here, you're part of a community.
• 38:48
  And I think another piece of that is the community side of things because I felt so isolated when I was sick.
• 38:56
  So I help practitioners and brands create space for people who are sick to like meet each other.
• 39:02
  And whether that's like circle or a Facebook group or maybe they have a course with a forum at minimum.
• 39:09
  And I do think that community is really important for healing.
• 39:12
  It was for me at least.
• 39:13
  I felt like I didn't have anyone to talk to.
• 39:15
  I felt like my friends and family didn't really fully understand what I was going through.
• 39:19
  I mean, I could try to explain how I felt, but you get tired of that after time, right?
• 39:25
  When you've been sick for so many years, you're just like, it's easier for me to not say anything.
• 39:30
  And if I don't have the energy to go, I'm just gonna say no.
• 39:34
  And so yeah, a lot of it is really content and community, I would say.
• 39:38
  Yeah, for sure.
• 39:40
  I know when I went through that, it's like early, it was really 1994.
• 39:47
  So I hadn't finished my college degree yet and just gotten married.
• 39:53
  And so chiropractic helped some and then going from just kind of not eating well.
• 40:03
  What I was eating, I thought I was eating well, but it just didn't have a lot of nutrition in it to go in more organic and that kind of thing got me in filtering the water.
• 40:12
  So just kind of the basics of life, right?
• 40:15
  Got me through another 17 years until I figured out how to actually go through and do the detox and healing of it.
• 40:26
  So that's a long time.
• 40:27
  And I just like, I feel like I got right at the point where I'm like, I probably could have gotten really sick with cancer or whatever and probably maybe died as when I by chance ran into someone who could go, by the way, you're not doing well.
• 40:42
  And I'm like, I think that's right.
• 40:45
  Yeah, you're just used to it.
• 40:47
  You're used to it.
• 40:48
  And I think I felt ashamed around just telling people how non-energetic I was, about how little I was actually, where I couldn't accomplish what they were doing, even though I probably, they was looking up to the being the one who was accomplishing so much, you know, could get so much done, but actually was not able to because of that.
• 41:09
  So I, you know, I certainly appreciate that that's the method of your marketing that you're doing and that you're just taking your experience and helping now people find their healing practitioner where they can work with and doing that in a way that's very kind and gentle.
• 41:31
  I guess, I don't know.
• 41:32
  That's a great way to describe it.
• 41:34
  It's funny too that you say when you were saying like you were sort of like perfectionist type A, I find that a lot of people have that same personality type who are chronically ill.
• 41:46
  And for me, it was very difficult too because everything about my identity was in achievement and was in like, how much can I do?
• 41:55
  Right, I was like straight A's.
• 41:56
  I played competitive volleyball year round.
• 41:58
  We were always first in state.
• 42:01
  Like I was, you know, everything in my life was based on being the best at everything I did.
• 42:06
  And so it's hard, I don't know.
• 42:09
  One of my exes actually introduced me to the concept of this, but collapse of identity because you're used to being so active and you're used to being the best and finding your identity and achievement.
• 42:23
  So when you can't do that anymore, it's almost like everything you know about yourself is stripped away and it's up to you to reinstall beliefs about yourself, right?
• 42:32
  Because you're not that achievement person.
• 42:34
  You're too tired to be.
• 42:36
  And so a lot of what I learned to do is, I call them bridge affirmations because I found that regular affirmations didn't work for me because my nervous system was like, why are you lying?
• 42:49
  Like you're looking in the mirror and saying like, we're healthy, we're rich, we're all these things and my nervous system's like, we're not that.
• 42:56
  And so one thing that I found really helpful was bridging that gap and saying like, I'm open to the idea that I can reclaim my full health or like I'm on a path to becoming vibrant and strong and an active person again because that almost was like it gave, my nervous system didn't like flag that as this like big lie.
• 43:23
  And so I did a lot of that type of work to reinstall these beliefs in myself because I think I really struggled with that.
• 43:32
  I really struggled with like, who am I if I'm not always the friend who's doing everything for everyone and always the person who's achieving at work and like getting promotions and getting all of these things.
• 43:44
  Like I didn't even know who I was underneath all of that.
• 43:46
  And that's kind of a scary feeling.
• 43:48
  Like I've lived with myself for this many years and I'm like, but was I just hiding behind that like accomplishment, achievement, perfectionist thing because I didn't wanna like get to know my true self or I didn't know how to.
• 44:02
  So I think there's another kind of beautiful thing that came out of being sick was like, I feel very grounded and rooted in who I am as a person because I had to reimagine my identity completely.
• 44:15
  And I had to be okay with just, I'm valuable for who I am and the person I am and my kindness and my empathy and all of these like things I just am rather than what I'm doing for everyone.
• 44:29
  And I think that's hard for a lot of us with chronic illness who have had to step back and had to like rest and had to be disappointing our friends because we can't show up the way that we want to.
• 44:40
  But actually it's a great time for you to be like, well, who am I underneath all of that and do some of that deep work.
• 44:47
  And it took me a couple of years.
• 44:49
  It was not easy to do, but I feel like I'm a completely different person now and in such a good way because of that.
• 44:57
  Yeah, well, yeah, for sure.
• 45:00
  Because people who've gone through it and have done the healing work lead others and there's just so many who aren't doing well or they don't realize some of the health choices that they're making or taking them to a precipice.
• 45:12
  That's, you know, you're gonna either change, you're gonna help, you're gonna decline rapidly.
• 45:19
  So those are gonna be your choices.
• 45:22
  And so many people are just kind of getting too close to that, in my opinion.
• 45:28
  I agree.
• 45:29
  You know, so we don't want that for you.
• 45:32
  And change is hard.
• 45:35
  So I wanna, because the other thing I do wanna talk to you about that you mentioned was the limbic system and kind of regulating that.
• 45:43
  And so you already have talked a little bit, touched on some of the self-talk during it and how that helps or plays in.
• 45:51
  So what else have you, are you, cause you're doing that other thing with limbic system and evolution.
• 45:56
  Yeah, so I probably had like 20 people over the last year reach out and be like, hey, I've seen you speak about limbic system, nervous system.
• 46:08
  I mean, we didn't even fully get into it, but I have so many issues even leaving my house that I actually would have to drive myself to my husband at the time he was a PGA golf pro.
• 46:24
  And I would have to drive to his golf course and work off of his wifi because I was so terrified to be alone at my house in case something happened.
• 46:33
  Like that's how dysregulated I was.
• 46:35
  I couldn't be alone cause I had so much fear.
• 46:38
  I had so much panic and anxiety that I literally spent probably a year working from his golf course parking lot because that's all I could do.
• 46:47
  It made me feel comforted enough that if I had to go to the ER, I could just call him and be like, I'm already right here.
• 46:55
  I mean, it was, I was so dysregulated and so people have heard me speak about it and they were like, well, what did you do?
• 47:02
  Because I experienced that to some degree or I relate to that.
• 47:06
  And so I built a course of just like, here's everything that I found helpful, everything from like EFT tapping, which is really great.
• 47:18
  Sort of like those bridge affirmations and EMDR and the specific limbic system retraining that I did and just like neuroplasticity cause I feel like once I discovered that I actually had agency over not only what my brain thinks, but also how my body behaves in accordance to that.
• 47:39
  I was like, wait, that's mind blowing.
• 47:41
  So I can create new neural pathways in my brain.
• 47:44
  I don't have to have this like panic every time I walk into a store to the point where I would faint in stores.
• 47:52
  Like often it would be in the checkout line, but I had just like so much anxiety because of the lights and the smells and the people like it, my nervous system just couldn't handle it.
• 48:03
  And so I started creating like a list and then I created a course out of it.
• 48:09
  And if you wanna just see like the topics, even just to like look at the topics and research off of them, it's just upsellhealth.com slash vibe, B-I-B-E.
• 48:19
  But it's nervous system, it's limbic system.
• 48:22
  It's also how do you be a magnetic person?
• 48:25
  If you're someone that like lived your whole life thinking about like abundance and getting out of scarcity mindset and staying in that growth mindset and you wanna be that person that's just magnetizing like opportunities and relationships in your own health.
• 48:41
  So I spent probably a good three to four years researching and putting content together and talking to people in this arena and sort of developing frameworks around it that helped me when I was sick.
• 48:55
  So it's been such a labor of love because I feel like if I had had this when I first got sick and I could get my limbic system and regulate my nervous system and get my mindset in place, I really feel like the protocols that I did would have stuck better because my body would be in a place where it was safe to heal and it wasn't.
• 49:17
  I was in fight or flight all the time or I was in complete collapse and shut down.
• 49:22
  I'd never really experienced this like safe parasympathetic rest and digest mode when I was sick.
• 49:28
  So a lot of the courses around that, but it's also mindset, right?
• 49:32
  Cause I was in a victim mindset for probably like five, six years.
• 49:36
  I was like, this isn't fair.
• 49:38
  Like, why am I sick?
• 49:39
  I'm 25.
• 49:40
  I should be able to like travel and walk and do all of these things and I can't do them.
• 49:46
  And so, yeah, a lot of it's mindset too.
• 49:48
  And I think that's, there's so many important pieces, but it's like the energy side.
• 49:52
  It's the emotional side of things.
• 49:54
  It's your spiritual side, no matter what you believe.
• 49:56
  Like we all are spiritual beings of some kind and how do we like see ourselves as a whole human and not just our physical symptoms?
• 50:04
  So it's really like, honestly, the culmination of really 12, 13 years of me being sick and kind of putting it all together.
• 50:12
  Yeah, well, so many things can go into this.
• 50:16
  Like it's not like anything happens in a bubble.
• 50:18
  So I do think there's certain things with abuse that prime us for being, for getting sick.
• 50:27
  Totally.
• 50:28
  Because our nervous system does do that.
• 50:30
  So it re, because abuse for the tough situations of being around people who are not safe or safe sometimes and then not others or whatever it is, it's a nervous system issue.
• 50:45
  So your nervous system adjusts to that.
• 50:47
  And then I think, I don't actually really know what it is, but I do think that can prime our bodies to not be healthy.
• 50:57
  Absolutely, yeah.
• 50:58
  And a lot of what I talk about is healing from trauma.
• 51:02
  I also talk about attachment style because if you grew up with parents who were not there for you and didn't support you emotionally and physically, maybe it's almost like you're primed to attract that because that's what you know.
• 51:17
  So it's also thinking about like childhood things and I talk about internal family systems and going back to your inner child and all these parts inside of you.
• 51:28
  There's so many components to it, but I feel like having a roadmap of like, hey, here's a bunch of options of things that may help you get better.
• 51:37
  And this can be layered onto any protocol, right?
• 51:40
  I don't do supplements at all in this.
• 51:43
  I don't recommend any protocols.
• 51:45
  So it's really like both and, right?
• 51:47
  If you're doing a physical protocol, you can add this layer on if you wanna talk about the energetic mindset, nervous system, limbic system healing, it's sort of like they can happen in conjunction, definitely.
• 51:59
  And there is something, I know you mentioned EFT and EMDR and that's interesting because I've done both of those also.
• 52:04
  Yeah.
• 52:04
  So like there's something here in healing from physical illness and any underlying traumatic things to do.
• 52:13
  So let's just tell people what they are if they've not heard of it.
• 52:17
  So EFT, the tapping.
• 52:18
  Yeah, so emotional freedom technique.
• 52:21
  So basically there's like little acupressure points that you tap on while you're saying a certain script.
• 52:27
  So you can even go on YouTube and you can find a bunch of people who will teach you how to tap.
• 52:32
  What I like about it though, is that what you're doing is you're saying like, even though I'm having this anxiety and symptom right now, I completely love and accept myself.
• 52:45
  And that's kind of how you start out.
• 52:46
  And then you talk yourself through like, you know, calming down and regulating, but it's nice.
• 52:52
  Like this is how I was taught it to go here.
• 52:55
  Yeah, there's a whole secret.
• 52:57
  And like here and then under your armpit and then go back as you're saying the things.
• 53:03
  Yeah, it's great for acute.
• 53:06
  Like I would use it often if I was trying to like push myself to like go in a grocery store and I would have that anxiety because so many times it had gone wrong.
• 53:16
  And I was like, I'm going to stop this script.
• 53:18
  Like I'm not even inside, I'm in my car and I'm having the symptoms as if I'm inside, you know, stressed already.
• 53:25
  Like that's not normal.
• 53:27
  And so I was like, we're not going to do this anymore.
• 53:29
  Like I'm going to tell my body, yes, even though I feel anxious and I feel like I'm going to faint and I'm dizzy and I'm scared, I completely love and accept myself.
• 53:38
  And then I would do the whole, it's like five minutes, less than five minutes to do the whole thing.
• 53:43
  That's really helpful for acute situations.
• 53:46
  EMDR, I would say it's that rapid eye movement, desensitization, if you've heard about that.
• 53:53
  But I wasn't ready to do that when I was sick.
• 53:56
  That's something that actually came toward the end of my healing because I do think in order to safely do EMDR, you do have to have a fairly regulated nervous system.
• 54:07
  Even when I went in, I probably started at two, three years ago.
• 54:12
  We didn't do any of the deep processing for probably seven or eight months.
• 54:16
  She just did sort of like talk therapy.
• 54:18
  We did a deeper nervous system work.
• 54:21
  We did the safe space thing where I would imagine like a beautiful, yeah, safe place just to get myself in that mindset and that body feeling.
• 54:30
  But it took me quite a while to get even able to process any of that.
• 54:35
  But then once I did, I feel like we went back to childhood traumas and like even the illness, I feel like I had never really processed that as a trauma.
• 54:44
  And I do think chronic illness in itself is a pretty traumatic event that you may wanna do some trauma processing with a professional.
• 54:54
  But I do think those really moved the needle for me.
• 54:58
  And there's so many things.
• 54:59
  I did a bunch of different limbic system programs too.
• 55:03
  And like, I talk a lot about the importance of visualization.
• 55:06
  Like I couldn't picture myself healthy when I was sick.
• 55:10
  And so I made myself do these consistent practices where it's like, no, I'm gonna get better.
• 55:16
  Like, what is my life gonna look like in three years that I'm gonna be in this house?
• 55:21
  And I would do like these long, I mean, 10, 15 minute visualizations, but I would actually like picture what my life is like healthy.
• 55:29
  What am I doing?
• 55:30
  Like, what am I accomplishing?
• 55:31
  What am I, where am I living?
• 55:33
  Who am I with?
• 55:34
  And I feel like my life now is so beyond what I could even have imagined when I was sick.
• 55:41
  Like, it's so much better than even my wildest dreams visualizations at the time, which is so crazy.
• 55:48
  But I think all of that stuff is really important.
• 55:51
  Yeah, that's really good info.
• 55:56
  So EMDR is something, and I know you said you were divorced.
• 55:59
  I got divorced also, which is kind of post getting my brain back.
• 56:05
  But I think it's helpful to do, I would, this is one thing I recommend to anyone who thinks they might be divorcing is to find a, you have to get a counselor who is certified in EMDR. And because like, why not clear that stuff to make sure you're thinking clearly?
• 56:24
  Cause it's a big decision, right?
• 56:26
  Yeah, it is a big decision.
• 56:28
  And it is helpful for things like that.
• 56:31
  Even like I was in a relationship at the time when I started a post-divorce relationship.
• 56:37
  And even some of the uncoverings in EMDR, I actually, this is a word of caution, but the first time we did an actual processing, I realized that my partner was like, making me relive my relationship with my mom growing up.
• 56:56
  And I, so I got on my phone while I was driving back from EMDR and I voice noted him and broke up with him.
• 57:02
  So just like, try not to make any rash decisions after, like make sure you're like regulating yourself and you're kind of getting back into that space.
• 57:12
  But it is great to like see things clearly cause it wasn't a good relationship for me.
• 57:17
  It probably shouldn't have done it that way or at that time, but it did help me sort of like uncover and process things.
• 57:23
  Do you wanna repeat these patterns from your childhood?
• 57:27
  Do you really wanna do that your whole life?
• 57:29
  And I was like, no, get my phone out.
• 57:32
  I'm like, I can't do this anymore.
• 57:34
  But it does help like clarify things for you, even though that session was not even directly about him at all.
• 57:40
  It was interesting.
• 57:41
  That is interesting.
• 57:43
  And a side note about counseling.
• 57:44
  And I do think a lot of counselors are super stressed and maybe are doing things that aren't completely ethical with bringing some of their own stuff into the session or whatever.
• 57:58
  So it is really frustrating when you're at the point where you're like, I have to have counseling and then to try to go through a bunch of counselors.
• 58:05
  So that's another thing I do feel like if they know EMDR, you can at least go, let's just do that, which I've done before.
• 58:14
  I'm like, that's not, it's not helpful, but can we do that?
• 58:19
  And you can get some stuff for your money.
• 58:23
  And it is very frustrating when you're in a vulnerable place where you're like acknowledging you need counseling and then going to one that's either not helpful or there's some that are just actually narcissistic.
• 58:39
  Yeah.
• 58:40
  Are kind of, you know, so there's this full gamut but we still need it.
• 58:44
  So I just, for me, that's one thing I feel like that's helpful.
• 58:48
  Yeah, keeping on the path of, you know, this is what we're going to do today and not, you know, whatever they're going to talk about.
• 58:56
  That's fine.
• 58:57
  Yeah.
• 58:57
  You can kind of direct it.
• 58:59
  You have agency in that too.
• 59:01
  So yeah, it's tough.
• 59:04
  It's tough to like, when you need help, what you need is to find it immediately with the first person you go to, because like sometimes you just wait till you're at the very end of your rope before you go looking.
• 59:15
  100% exhausting to like have to make a decision.
• 59:20
  It's funny though, because what you said, I've had happen to me before on multiple, you know, therapy appointments or with different people because I feel like sometimes through chronic illness, you become like super empathetic.
• 59:33
  You become this like highly sensitive, like loving person.
• 59:37
  At least that's what's happened to me.
• 59:38
  And so sometimes in therapy, I'll become the therapist.
• 59:43
  Like I'll like, you know, they'll like chat with me about their day and I'm like, oh my gosh.
• 59:47
  Like, and then I'll start asking them questions and I'm like, wait a second, I'm paying for this.
• 59:52
  Like I become their sounding board, but you, yeah.
• 59:56
  I struggled a bit with boundaries with that because I do like really care about people and I love humans.
• 1:00:02
  And like, I wanna, it's hard for me to like, feel like it's very one-sided and like, we're just talking about me even though I'm paying them, you know?
• 1:00:10
  So it's crazy.
• 1:00:11
  Sometimes I've like, feel like I've given therapy to my therapist before.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah, I almost feel like, you know, healers need a healing.
• 1:00:18
  You know, like the people who are in the work of doing the healing work.
• 1:00:22
  I mean, they, and I think they know, you know, I just, but the, and more than that, like all these people that give and give and give and give and give, teachers and first responders and, you know, people that are interacting maybe with the public in a good way, whatever it is.
• 1:00:41
  It's like, finding your, finding your healing circle.
• 1:00:47
  Is really, really important for sure.
• 1:00:50
  Yeah.
• 1:00:51
  Well, this covered a lot of ground.
• 1:00:54
  You know, I just feel like there's probably so much more there that, you know, we could just go into probably an hour on everything about being grounded.
• 1:01:04
  But one thing I just, I wanted to just rip on some of the couple of things you said, and finding agency, which means I have the power inside of me to make change.
• 1:01:16
  And so a couple of these things are just like, if you're having anxiety, just the power we have, it's no cost in our body to make changes.
• 1:01:24
  And there's three I can think of.
• 1:01:26
  One is that if you, when you learn tapping, you can do that, that'll get you into that.
• 1:01:32
  Breathing, there's so much, I've had so many people on talking about putting a focus on your breath.
• 1:01:38
  So maybe doing the box breathing, in for five seconds, hold for five seconds, out for five seconds, hold for five seconds, or you don't count.
• 1:01:49
  Someone said that stressed them out to the count.
• 1:01:51
  So we just followed the thing.
• 1:01:54
  So whatever works, that's gonna ground you.
• 1:01:57
  I had another one talk about embodiment, another guest, and it's just like, feel your legs.
• 1:02:02
  Where are they on the earth?
• 1:02:03
  Feel your shoulders.
• 1:02:04
  Are they, now straighten up your spine to the sky.
• 1:02:10
  And even as I say that, I always shift.
• 1:02:12
  And that was a good thought for me as I was moving.
• 1:02:16
  Cause I'm like, I'm either on the computer like this or just bent over moving.
• 1:02:20
  And I'm like, re-feeling where my spine is, and up and down.
• 1:02:27
  So just, there's so many things we do have agency.
• 1:02:31
  Those are just three little examples.
• 1:02:34
  No cost ones.
• 1:02:36
  But so what would you say to someone who's just feeling like they don't feel good?
• 1:02:43
  I know you do this all the time, but like you're listening to like, I don't feel good, where should I start?
• 1:02:49
  So what I have found helpful is my biggest stressor, like I said, was finding where to look and where to go.
• 1:03:00
  And so what I actually have been working on is a way to connect people to healers, because that was my biggest pain point of like, I honestly probably spent $70,000 easily on, like alone with my biological dentist, I spent 20,000 just in like getting my root canals reversed and titanium implants reversed.
• 1:03:24
  And plus all the protocols and supplements and the ER bills, everything.
• 1:03:30
  So what I created once I got better was a practitioner and a patient archetype quiz.
• 1:03:37
  So you can understand like as a healer, what's your type?
• 1:03:41
  Are you a Phoenix?
• 1:03:41
  Are you a rebel disruptor?
• 1:03:43
  Are you a guardian superhero?
• 1:03:45
  Just depending on how you naturally wanna heal others.
• 1:03:49
  And then I was like, well, I should make one for patients.
• 1:03:52
  So I spent a long time doing a lot of research, talking to a lot of practitioners.
• 1:03:57
  And so I have a patient archetype too, and then they're free.
• 1:04:01
  So I would say an easy thing to do would be go take that.
• 1:04:06
  So if you just go to upsahealth.com slash archetype, you can get a free report.
• 1:04:11
  You don't have to pay anything.
• 1:04:12
  You can take the quiz.
• 1:04:13
  You can learn about like what's important to you as a person who's healing.
• 1:04:18
  And then I'm creating an app, which is gonna match you.
• 1:04:22
  I call it the Tinder of functional medicine, but it'll rank your archetype, your root causes, if you care about their credentials and location, it'll give you a percentage match.
• 1:04:33
  So it takes like the guesswork away from people of like, I'm on an endless internet search and I don't feel like I can even make a decision cause I'm so tired.
• 1:04:43
  Like I can't remove that decision fatigue.
• 1:04:47
  And so I'm hoping that the next like 20, 30 years of my life, I can just spend making that process easier for people.
• 1:04:55
  And the first way to do that, I think is to help them to decide with a logical way.
• 1:05:02
  Like, you know, here's a practitioner that if you really care about lab testing and data, this is the type you should go for.
• 1:05:09
  Layering on whatever root causes you're dealing with, with whatever they work with, you know, it's just an easy way to match people.
• 1:05:17
  And so I'm hoping that that's really helpful for people.
• 1:05:20
  But I think, yeah, just doing some of, like you said, the free nervous system regulation.
• 1:05:25
  There's so many things you can find on YouTube even if you're like, ooh, EFT sounded interesting, just go search it and you can watch videos.
• 1:05:32
  You can easily learn it yourself.
• 1:05:35
  There was a video I watched probably a hundred times cause I wanted to learn lymphatic drainage on myself cause I was swollen everywhere.
• 1:05:44
  And there's, I think her name's Heather.
• 1:05:45
  I have the video memorized now, but I just YouTubed it and did like this self lymphatic drainage.
• 1:05:51
  I think she has like multi millions of views now.
• 1:05:54
  They're probably half from me.
• 1:05:56
  But there's a lot you can find.
• 1:05:58
  I think the hard part is what do I need in order to search?
• 1:06:02
  So that's the part where I think, you know, if you're a podcast person and you hear something that sparks your interest, just go search it, go try it yourself.
• 1:06:11
  See if that resonates with you.
• 1:06:13
  And if it's something that keeps coming up in your brain, I always say like, pay attention to that.
• 1:06:17
  You know, if you heard EFT on six different podcasts now, maybe that's a sign that that's something that you should look into for your own healing.
• 1:06:25
  So I think again, the idea of agency, I know it's really hard when you're sick to have energy and to feel motivated sometimes, but just kind of look for those little like synchronicities of life.
• 1:06:36
  Like, oh, I've heard this a few times or like somebody sent me a link to this a couple of times.
• 1:06:41
  Like, I'm going to go check that out.
• 1:06:42
  So I think that makes it less stressful and less like, oh, I'm going to have to like do all of this work and find, you know, do all this research and spend many hours of my day.
• 1:06:52
  I think just like being open to little signs like that is also helpful.
• 1:06:57
  Yeah.
• 1:06:57
  Yeah.
• 1:06:58
  That's really good advice.
• 1:07:00
  And you mentioned something about the dentistry that you redid stuff in your mouth.
• 1:07:04
  I did some of that too.
• 1:07:06
  So these are, yeah.
• 1:07:08
  Well, I just had the mercury taken out and you learn more.
• 1:07:10
  It's like, why are we putting mercury in our body at all?
• 1:07:13
  Why is the medical community?
• 1:07:15
  I mean, the why is as if who runs the world in my opinion, but from what I've, the little research I've done, but the mercury in our mouth, that's a neurotoxin to your brain.
• 1:07:27
  So we use that for filling.
• 1:07:28
  So I was like a night and day difference in how I felt when I had that removed.
• 1:07:35
  I didn't have mercury.
• 1:07:37
  I had probably seven root canals, seven.
• 1:07:41
  And those like the bacteria can get trapped there.
• 1:07:44
  And I think the layer of lime on top of it, I do think spirochetes can live in that because it's not able to be fully cleared out.
• 1:07:51
  So you just have this like dead tooth with, you know, they've tried to pull the roots out and pack it in with healing things.
• 1:07:59
  But my root canals were, they showed me the teeth after they removed them.
• 1:08:04
  And some of them were black, like fully black.
• 1:08:07
  And I was like, this was in my mouth, like making me feel absolutely horrible.
• 1:08:12
  And yeah, it was an investment and we were not making much money when we paid that.
• 1:08:16
  And we had to pay cash.
• 1:08:17
  So I understand like healing can be really expensive, but I think finding the right fit for you and knowing that some of these things can really move the needle.
• 1:08:26
  Like that was a big one for me too.
• 1:08:28
  I finally was like, okay, I don't have active, like festering infections now underneath teeth that are supposed to be fixed.
• 1:08:38
  That's such a catastrophic thing that we're not dealing with.
• 1:08:42
  And we need more people who know what to do with that dentist, for instance.
• 1:08:47
  To offer that alternative type things besides the standard.
• 1:08:52
  And I'm just like, that's what we want.
• 1:08:54
  That's what we need.
• 1:08:55
  We're asking for that.
• 1:08:56
  We want choices, just want a full circle.
• 1:08:58
  Let us know the options and the risks.
• 1:09:00
  Let us know the options, yeah.
• 1:09:02
  But yeah, because you have heard, like if it goes in, because your mouth is, you know, you're leaking into your body from you swallow your saliva.
• 1:09:10
  All the time, yeah.
• 1:09:10
  So whatever is in your mouth is gonna leach into your body and cause different heart or whatever problems that it causes.
• 1:09:18
  So that's very important to pay attention to too.
• 1:09:22
  Yeah, so many things that we have the choices and like, let's buy clean things.
• 1:09:27
  Let's not put so many chemicals into our environment, which is a big thing too.
• 1:09:32
  You don't have to, it's not really necessarily the virus and bacteria that's going to be the main culprit is often the heavy metals.
• 1:09:44
  And the kind of just the cancerous chemicals that are everywhere and the perfumes and the dyes and these kinds of things.
• 1:09:52
  Avoid those.
• 1:09:53
  So there's a lot of, we do still have choice.
• 1:09:56
  We have a lot of choice we can make.
• 1:09:59
  So one thing at a time, that was how I handled it.
• 1:10:04
  One thing at a time, cleaning out the kitchen, cleaning out your mouth.
• 1:10:08
  It can get overwhelming.
• 1:10:09
  Yeah, making a list, tackle like this week, I'm going to look into a better foundation.
• 1:10:15
  Like just tackle one thing a week and then you'll get there.
• 1:10:19
  You don't have to like throw all your stuff away.
• 1:10:21
  I think that's the hard part for people.
• 1:10:23
  I think it's okay to like use something up and feel like you're not trashing thousands and thousands of dollars at once.
• 1:10:30
  Just the next time you buy it, have a plan, a healthier option for that.
• 1:10:36
  Yeah, so thank you.
• 1:10:38
  We're probably running a little over time.
• 1:10:40
  So tell me kind of in closing, so you work with practitioners, but you also kind of just work with people who are needing to find a healer.
• 1:10:49
  So where should they go?
• 1:10:52
  How can they both, both of those sets of people work?
• 1:10:55
  Yeah, so I would say I honestly would send all, all options to the archetype quiz.
• 1:11:02
  So if you go to upstillhealth.com slash archetype, you'll be able to pick patient or practitioner.
• 1:11:08
  I'm releasing a brand one soon.
• 1:11:12
  So I've like a wellness leader.
• 1:11:14
  You can take the archetype for your supplement company and you can see what kind of like archetype your brand itself is.
• 1:11:21
  So I would probably send them there.
• 1:11:23
  And if the app is interesting to you, I think we'll launch it in fall of 2026.
• 1:11:28
  So this year, but if you go to upstillhealth.com slash app, I do have a wait list and there's a bunch of cool, fun bonuses.
• 1:11:36
  Like a lot of the high vibe things that we've talked about, I'm giving away for free, just for getting on the wait list.
• 1:11:42
  So probably those two things would be the best place.
• 1:11:47
  And then if you just go to upstillhealth.com, there's like a work with us page.
• 1:11:51
  If you are interested in, if you're a supplement company or a practitioner, you can get ahold of us there.
• 1:11:57
  Awesome.
• 1:11:58
  Yeah.
• 1:11:58
  Thank you.
• 1:11:59
  All right, Allie.
• 1:12:00
  Well, thank you so much.
• 1:12:01
  And y'all go look for Allie and get some of her wisdom and feel better.
• 1:12:05
  Amazing.
• 1:12:06
  The word out about all the good work you're doing.
• 1:12:08
  Awesome.
• 1:12:09
  Thank you so much.
• 1:12:12
  Thanks for joining us.
• 1:12:14
  New episodes of Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy with fabulous guests drop every Thursday.
• 1:12:18
  Also, you can follow our socials at Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok.
• 1:12:23
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• 1:12:26
  And in all these places, please like follow and subscribe.
• 1:12:29
  See you next time.