Latest / Reeling It In with Collin Bass / 035 - Called to Something Greater w/ Cynthia Schmidt: From Big Law to Pro-Life Leadership
Transcript
- Collin Bass: Five, four, three, two, one. Welcome back to Real London Inn. This is your host, Colin Bass. And I could not be more excited to sit down today with Cynthia Smith, the new executive director of the Catholic Pro-Life Community here in Dallas. From big law mitigation to leading a mission-driven nonprofit serving thousands of families here around the city, I could not be more excited to welcome to the show Cynthia. Come on, welcome to the show. Cynthia: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I am so, so excited about this. I am a big fan, big follower of yours. All my friends are geeking out that I get to be with the Catholic layman. So this means a lot to me that you're having me on. Thank you. Collin Bass: my gosh, of course, this is fantastic and so cool to now have you on the show to hear your story and all the background. But before we dive into all that, tell listeners about your story, where you're at right now in your life, and then we can go back into how you got to where you are today. Cynthia: Awesome, so I am a wife, a mother, and a lawyer in that order. I'm married to amazing other lawyer named Grant. He and I met in Notre Dame. We have five beautiful kids on Earth, one in heaven. We have four girls, so they're fourth, second, first, and pre-K, and they go to St. Rita Catholic School. And then we have a little baby boy at home named Gabriel. He's two. He's the apple of our eye. His brother, his identical twin brother Ignatius, Iggy, passed away the first day of his life. so he's our Saint in Heaven Iggy is still very much a part of our life. So mom of six children, five earthly children, practiced law kind of off and on for about a decade. And then I'm the new executive director of the Catholic Pro-Life Community, which is it's the respect to life ministry of the Diocese of Dallas. And so we're so lucky in Dallas that the Bishop has allowed us to operate 501C3 that is lay led and lay driven, very much clergy supported. But we have, you know, 20 employees here and we do incredible ministry work. I'm so excited to talk about it. And so it's really the honor of my life. You're catching me fresh off my major life pivot from lawyer to pro-life leader. So this is really a pleasure to chit chat about that. Collin Bass: my gosh, welcome to the show. I could not be more excited to dive into all of that. And before we even get to where you are today, I mean, I'm just blown away. You have all these kids and you met your husband in college at Notre Dame, both lawyers. What was the plan? When you guys met, was it like we're both gonna become lawyers, but we're still gonna have a big family and we're just gonna see how it all happens? Because I know in that space I have a couple of friends that are lawyers. It's not as normal for people to prioritize their family and grow in that way, but also their career. So bring us back to that mindset in Notre Dame. and like what you were thinking was going to happen once graduation came. Cynthia: Yeah, so at Notre Dame, the Career Center is great, and there's all this encouragement. Go out, change the world, get these great careers. Go to a big consulting firm or an amazing law school. And I was dating Grant at the time, and I remember my senior year just being like, all I really want to do is get married to Grant and have a big family. And the beautiful thing that God did for us is he did both and. He did, hey, Cynthia, you get to go go to great law school, clerk for a federal judge, go and practice in a big law environment, and I'm going to bless you with all these children. And, you know, it's not everybody's story. I don't I think there's no one recommendation for anybody. But for us, I'm actually really grateful that so many people encouraged me that, hey, don't count yourself out just because you want to have six or seven kids or however many kids doesn't mean you can't be an excellent lawyer. It doesn't mean you can't just take. then it's like from the Frozen movie, like do the next right thing. And it was amazing how God's provisioned. First of all, I think I needed to do that work in my law career to be prepared for this pro-life work. And I think God knew that. Of course, God knows everything. And so God always provided for us. He made it possible for us. We dated long distance for a few years. He made that possible. All he needed was just that faith of a mustard seed. little bit of faith and then he carried us through to each step. And I think the mirage is fading. I think maybe 10 years ago, society would have said, you know, pick your career for 10 years, then get married. But I think we're really at the cusp of that being dismantled as a lie. I we're seeing, even I read this article about, even in the Ivy Leagues about people pairing off early as young people And I think that's amazing. It's not possible for everybody. Not everybody is given their life partner immediately. But Grant and I clung to each other really early. And I'm so grateful that we did because we got to build a life together, a family together, and two careers together. And so God was so faithful in providing for us. Collin Bass: Yeah, man, it's so cool too, like to be long distance and to like build your life together, your first professional life and to kind of shoot towards this idea of marriage together. Like how beautiful is that? I love it. I love it. I'm curious too. Tell us about, as we dive in a little bit deeper into your story, how you chose that first big law firm that you worked for and then yeah, kind of where that led you over the first couple of years of your career. Cynthia: So a theme for me of my, which I get to say now because the truth is is that I've loved being a lawyer. but I always kind of knew that it wasn't my heart passion. And I think I'm sure there are so many of your friends, Colin, and your listeners who they want to serve the Lord. And so they're trying to figure out, how do I serve the Lord when really gaining my professional competency is taking up so much of my mental energy? And right now, feel like I'm finally, the Lord is fulfilling the dream of my life, which is to use my professional competencies for his work in a very direct way. which not everybody's called to do. I was very intimidated. I went to SMU Law School. I'm from Alabama. When I went to Notre Dame, I studied theology and political science. So very academic. I wasn't the one going to the career fair. I think I went to one career fair and stumbled Collin Bass: You Cynthia: over my words, embarrassed myself. I I had no practical skills. I didn't have a suit. I was super intimidated by the whole process. went to my first kind of round of interviews and this was still back in the, mean, it sounds like I'm old. I'm not that old, but really we had to wear pantyhose and skirts. SMU told us to interview to be a lawyer Collin Bass: years. Cynthia: in Dallas. You need to have pantyhose on, you need to have closed toed shoes and you need to have a skirt suit. Don't wear a pantsuit, make sure your hair looks good. So I'm, and I'm rolling up there and I just felt my first interview was at a place called Andrews Kurth, which has been renamed now. high rise. I think it was the first high rise I'd ever been to. I'm a first year law student and I went up that elevator and I just felt so intimidated. I this is not me. And I sat in that first interview and they came in and talked to me and they said, why do you want to do this? And I gave them some grand idealistic answer about how I wanted to serve the poor. And the guy said to me, he was like, are you really interested in being a corporate lawyer? And I was like, In my head, I'm like, no, I don't want to do this. What am I doing here? This is scary. I'm in the wrong room. But I'm Collin Bass: You might be in the wrong room. Cynthia: sure I up with some answer. And then I think I got one call back to that interview. that was my trajectory was easing into it. By the time I was a second year lawyer in the law firm after my second year of law school, I had seen kind of the glory of working in an environment like that. I had seen how brilliant people were. I had seen one of the law firms I worked for. that firm had actually represented the Little Sisters of the Poor in their litigation against the white, at that time the Obama administration, which was kind of a number of things with their, impeding their ability to serve their populations by requiring them to perform abortions or requiring them to do, I can't remember all the details, but I really saw the power of these secular institutions to, maintain the spirit of justice. And so I was kind of sold on the mission. So by the time I was a second year lawyer, I felt much more at home. I never felt fully at home practicing law, but I understood why God had put me in those places and why God is still calling so many faithful young people into these institutions, because it's so important. Collin Bass: Yeah, yes, what would you say at that time and maybe how it's changed now? But what would you say was like the spirit of your mission? It sounds like a little hint of justice is a big part of that. But how would you have defined your mission or your desire for law at that point? Cynthia: My desire for law at that point was still in hopes that I could use it for justice and for direct service to the poor. I knew that it was a much more attenuated connection because the majority of my time Collin Bass: Yeah. Cynthia: was spent working for corporate clients. I thought that I wanted to do something direct service right outside of college, but a very impactful experience for me was Notre Dame. was so generous and sent me to India for half of a summer right before my first, right before my senior year. And I was supposed to be doing education research or something, but it was really, you know, Notre Dame's way of supporting a kind of global viewpoint. So I was in Calcutta and I stayed in the Gomes house, which was actually the house that when Mother Teresa was discerning, starting her own order, she stayed in the Gomes house for a whole year discerning. whether she should start the Sisters of Charity. And then the Sisters of Charity is like about half a mile up the road. And so I felt really impacted by being in the same home. I was in a discernment phase myself. What do I want to do with my life? And I was where Mother Teresa had been discerning. And so that was very special for me. But one thing that I realized in India is that one of the systemic, the reasons for their systemic issues in India deal with the rule of law. and the fact that the rule of law, and this is true across the board, not across the board globally, but in many other places, where the laws are not adhered to and respected and fulfilled, then you have opportunities for corruption, you have opportunities for all of the bribery that goes along, the disrespect for human rights that can kind of fester. And I came home craving India for its chaos and beauty and just, it's such an overstimulating place in all the best ways. And I came home to United States thinking, this place is so stale. Where is my different scent? Every five seconds, you can just, you see the extremes, Collin Bass: Yeah. Cynthia: the most extreme poverty and the most lavish wealth, all within 30 seconds, you just see it all. And you go and, I flew into JFK airport and it was just like, calm, calm. Anyway, but when I came back to the United States, I thought, The rule of law is what distinguishes our society from these other societies that are failing. And so I felt a much deeper connection to upholding the laws and upholding justice, even for corporate clients who deserve great representation, just as everybody does. Collin Bass: Yeah, yeah, I love that. How cool, you have to be in like pretty much within the footsteps of Mother Teresa and discern in the same place and kind of walk where she walked. And man, and to be able to see just the total opposite of our world and like just how the laws are not fulfilled and also just the rule of law being totally different. I love that perspective and it probably gives you so much more passion coming back into our country. And I'm curious to kind of building off that and taking that perspective. I understand you made a couple of hops within, your career and whenever taking this perspective and whenever you were taking those opportunities, tell me about that. Like what went into those decisions and also what led to you to say, okay, now it's time to take this next hop to this company and then also to where you are today. Cynthia: Earlier on in my professional career, I did not have as much of a prayer life as I do today. And I just never, it was so hard for me as a professional, as a mom of having kids, it was so hard for me to establish a prayer routine. Now that God's given me a better prayer routine, I can say that my moves of discernment, I feel so close to the Lord in making them. And I feel like God gives me really good answers. He doesn't always give me the full answer. He's not coming down on a cloud and saying, go and apply to be the Catholic Pro-Life Community Executive Director. But He's really spoken to my heart and my head in so many more clear ways now that I pray. I always prayed before, but I didn't have that long block of silent prayer. And now I look back at my discernment and different career moves and I'm like, my gosh, thank you Lord that you gave me the right, that you got the message to me because I wasn't really listening to you. regularly. So I did a lot more of discerning with my head back in the early times of my career. But fortunately, one of the ways that God's always spoke to me in my career is through other people. and I I and and and and and Collin Bass: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cynthia: actually just got to the place as a mom where I felt like my attention was just too divided. I had just kind of lost interest in practicing law at the level that I needed to practice it for justice to my clients. And so it became kind of this friction constantly. And then I was a working mom three months after I had my first baby. And so I had never had a really long block of time with my kids at home. And I really craved it. wanted to know, can I cut it as a stay at home mom? I wanted to like fully experience a learning curve of onboarding all these kids and being the one who's trying to figure out how do you nurse a baby and feed a toddler and put one down for a nap. Like I really wanted to be in it. And so I really felt a very sincere calling home. And I was at home for about a year after leaving Gibson Dunn. And then after that, I discerned, OK, I actually really miss practicing law. And then I joined the firm that I was at for seven years called Hildres. The founder of Hildres is the current Attorney General of Nebraska. And he and his wife started the firm. They're absolutely lovely people. And so it was very bittersweet leaving, but had a really clear calling from God to finally hang up my, I'm still a barred lawyer, but hang up my little lawyer hat for a little bit. Collin Bass: Yeah, yeah, now I'm curious too, because I know a lot of people, especially in our generation, my wife is one of these. She's trying to figure out, I really want to work, I have this passion, but I also know I want to hang it up whenever my kids come along. What was that like for you? Was it hard for you to fully let go of your career and dive back in? You said there was kind of this desire to be with your family, but what was that tension like to say no to the career for a little bit of time and go fully into your family? Cynthia: It was so hard, honestly. I probably made it harder than it actually was, but for me subjectively, Collin Bass: Thanks. Cynthia: because when you're young, wasn't like a, I left, when I left my current firm, I was a partner at my former firm. I left kind of having cut my teeth, feeling like I had established a clique. I left from a position of strength. It was really hard for me when I was younger. I was leaving my career as a lawyer as a... third or fourth year associate. And so I hadn't given my career. all the time. I felt like I was doing an early exit, but I knew it was right. It felt extremely high risk for me to leave that so early. And so was really difficult. It felt so existential. The beautiful news is that God wastes nothing. And so what I didn't realize is that God wanted me to do it. And I had this beautiful year at home with the kids. But then he actually was going to say, OK, but you're not done yet being a lawyer. I'm going to give you the perfect role for you that's a bit more flexible, that's going to grow with you. That career I had at Holger's, my prior firm, it sustained me for seven years as an attorney and mom because I got to do all kinds of different things there. I got to be some years I was full-time salary, some years I was commission-based, some years I was hourly. more and more law firms and also companies are doing this for especially young women because they're seeing that, especially client service organizations where your clients want to see that you're a law firm or an accounting firm that can retain women. They're actually realizing, oh, these women are incredible and they can multitask. And if we just change our compensation model to give them part-time options, then we can retain them. And then when their kids grow up and go to school, then we get them back full time. And so I think the world's really wising up in the different ways we can create paths for women that benefit everybody. Collin Bass: I love that. love that. think it's very true. We're both in the tech world and it's very similar. They're seeing a lot of the same flexibility working from home. And I think that is a beautiful thing that the world is doing and taking a turn to kind of value the family in a different way. But I love that you said that, like you felt God kind of pulling you through these different seasons. And before we dive fully into what you're doing today, that's the last thing I wanted to ask you about was tell me about what that feels like in your prayer life or maybe in your personal life or even from your board of advisors of when it's very obvious the Lord is asking you to do something because I know everyone sort of experiences that in a different way. Cynthia: So for me, and there's a really good book that a woman named Johnna Schuster just wrote about, she was on Lila Rose podcast, she's on a bunch of podcasts right now, and it's about how to discern the voice of God. And it's this idea that... God is available to us. God is speaking to us. And it gives a whole framework that's steeped in Catholic spiritual tradition about how to discern the voice of God. And so people hear the voice of God in different ways. At various times in my life, I've been privileged to have what I would call an interior locution, which is like, it's not an audible voice, but it's an internal voice. And so in my discernment of this position, I've had a number of experiences of hearing the internal voice of God. really validating me. But another way that God speaks to me is through my emotions and being really moved. A couple of ones that I can share. When I was discerning whether to apply for this job, I had a series of experiences with disabled people. One of them was I was at a drive-through getting some food that I should not have been eating. And the person who was the person working handed me my food, and he was clearly physically disfigured and disabled. And my heart was so moved with emotion and love for him in that moment. And I knew that it was the Holy Spirit working in me to show me his value and his humanity. And I heard a little voice of God that said, these people. And I had another very similar example where a little child at mass who has neurodivergent issues came and gave me a big hug. And I heard the voice of God say, protect these people. And again, I was really moved with emotion. That emotion for me is a big hint that that's just not, that's not Cynthia's head spinning. That's something external that's happening to me because it's so, it takes my breath away. And so I had a series of those, because I really think with the pro-life movement where we have to be very strong is honor, like. upholding and protecting the sanctity of human beings who have disabilities. So much of our reproductive technology that the secular society is rolling out is really actually about a eugenic intent to rid our society of people with disabilities. But people with disabilities are made in the image and likeness of God. And in fact, they show us a side of the face of God that we can't see in people who are normally able. They're a very critical part of our human family. And when we miss that part of our human family, we suffer. We suffer a wound of all of the people with disabilities that we don't get to be with. And so that's just one example of how I felt God calling me to this work and one thing I hope we can do effectively in this work. Collin Bass: Yeah, man, and that's a side that you don't even usually think about when you think of just the work that you do and even the category of the politics that plays into everything. It's easily to just look past those that are marginalized and those that we so easily don't even acknowledge in our own lives and maybe not see so often. But I'm so curious. Let's dive fully into this. This a great segue. Tell us about your work and maybe specifically about your role here at the Dallas Pro Live community. Cynthia: I'm sorry, is it helpful? Collin Bass: yeah, let's dive all the way into it. Cynthia: Yeah, thank you. So in 1993, know, fresh off of the the community's reeling from the fact that abortion is now legal, the Dallas community is particularly upset about the legality of abortion, given that Roe versus Wade. came from Dallas, Texas. Wade was the district attorney of Dallas at the time. So this is a Dallas issue. And we like to say around here that we want to end abortion in the place where legal abortion started here in Dallas, Texas. But a group of young moms actually very similar, very close to my age got together and said, we need to form a group of volunteer corps of women and men who are interested in persuading women that they can have their babies and they can be moms or give their baby up for adoption. And so at the time, one of the big ministries of the organization was sidewalk counseling. So they would go and they would stand in front of the physical abortion clinics and they would pray the rosary and ask that if when people walked by, would you come speak to us? And they saved thousands and thousands of lives by giving women a path. It's always been very important to this organization to not just persuade, it's not just about birth, it's not just about statistics, did you have the baby or did you not? It's about radical accompaniment. of women in need and babies in need. And so from the very conception of the organization, we have had a component, we call it our Gabriel program, where women who need the support walk through our program and they're given trainings on various life skills, everything from personal finance to how to manage a car. They're given scholarship money. They're given physical things like diapers. I mean, I just had a request. you know, one of our moms was going to have her phone turned off because she couldn't pay the bill. So we paid her phone bill. One of the moms just moved into her first apartment on her own. And so we have a bunch of, you know, got a bunch of cleaning supplies for her because cleaning supplies are expensive. It's really everything that these moms need to be set up for success. We try to provide them. And we do it through an army of women mentors in the Dallas, Fort Worth area who walk hand in hand, one to one with women who are in our program. And so that's one of several ministries that we have here at Catholic Pro-Life Community. Our other really two really big ones I'll just mention. So we have our Gabriel, it's called our Gabriel program. And then our other two big ones are that we have a pregnancy care center. So women who may be pregnant can come into our office. It's right down over there. It's a separate entrance, but it's in our office. And we have a fabulous sonographer. And so she'll do pregnancy tests. She'll do a she'll do a sonogram and then our councils will sit with them and say hey how are you feeling you know you can do this you can be a mom you can be a great mom and we're going to help you. every step of the way, what do you need from us to make this happen? And so that's such a beautiful ministry. And then finally, you know, one of the things that we have that most pro-life organizations don't even touch is we have a healing after abortion ministry. So this is so close to my heart, Collin, because the Lord has a special passion for those who are most broken. And in addition to people, know, women and who've experienced abortion, who've chosen abortion, or have been coerced into abortion. I mean, they experienced the crushing loss of a child, but they also experienced tremendous guilt and shame. And the Lord wants to free them of the guilt and shame. And so we have these fabulous retreats all throughout the year for men and women in English and in Spanish, where they come to us for three days and they receive the healing of Jesus Christ. And so that's one of the things that we're most proud of here. Collin Bass: Wow. Wow, that is so beautiful. And I just, I just love it because we haven't even gotten to the baby yet, right? Like we obviously there's a whole different side of the story on that side of it when the child comes into the world and protecting that life. But I love your perspective. First of all, just protecting the human who's going to be carrying that child and that idea of radical accompaniment. And I'm curious, like you mentioned three different ways you're serving those mothers. But what happens if they if they don't tell us the other side of the story? You mentioned a little bit of the guilt on the abortion side of it once once the has been made but maybe they're kind of still on the edge they still want to have the child or maybe they're kind of having different voices in their mind when they're not in this place of radical radical accompaniment with you guys or even in their own community in their own families what does the other side of the story look like Cynthia: I think we see a lot of women who are totally abandoned. I mean, we had a woman who came in and with, I won't divulge any details because it's a current case, but she said, know, y'all throughout this entire experience, Catholics have been the ones to show up. Because when women, when people go through hard things, not everybody is well versed in suffering, right? Not everybody, you know, our Catholic social tradition, we have such a culture of accompaniment. It's very natural for us as Catholics to sit with people in suffering. and know that we can't solve everything and that just being with them as the women were to Jesus on the cross, like that's sometimes what our job is. But when people suffer, when people don't suffer alone, then it does cut back on some of that, some of the sting of the suffering. So we see a lot of loneliness that young women face. I mean, so many women, I think, You know, there's a real empowerment issue here that, you know, from my perspective, I think in the eyes of the Catholic Church, to be a mother is a glory. It's the glory of a woman. It's a great gift to be a mother. It changes our hearts. It's a superpower. It's an incredible thing. It's such a gift. And we want. women, regardless of their socioeconomic status, regardless of whether the men show up in their lives for them or not, we want them to have an opportunity to experience that, especially when they're already mothers, because they've already been given the gift of life. And I think our society has this weird idea that women in this circumstance shouldn't be mothers. They don't deserve to be mothers. No. The Lord, these two rumen, you've conceived a child, like the Lord has called them to be a mother. The Lord has blessed them. with the ability to be a mother. And so that's something that we want to walk with women and allow them to say yes to. That it's a great privilege that's afforded to us. we see it in the women that go through our program who have welcomed a child. And how all the lies about, it'll be so difficult for you now, and you'll never pull yourself out now. No, mean, for a lot of women, the beauty and the treasure of that child and really the graces that come with accepting a child is the thing that gives them the strength to transition into a more stable life. So we want that to be available for every woman. Collin Bass: Yeah, and I mean, how cool for you, I mean, especially you being the spokesperson, you being the leader and like the example for these women. I'm sure there are many that are lower income, many that are higher income that are going through the same exact situation, you're a lawyer. You have every reason to say my career is important. I am way too busy for this. There's no opportunity for me to have kids. And like you're defending, you're doing good work in the world too. And like you have the opportunity to maybe some of your peers to say, no, like it's just not worth it. know, like I'm going to focus on my career. That's the way I'll be fulfilled. and I don't need these kids, but you've done exactly what you're preaching of saying, like, hey, this is actually going to fill me up. It's okay if it takes a toll on your family. It's okay if it takes a toll on your relationship with your husband. It's okay if it takes a toll on whatever else, your other passions and desires. And even if you're working an hourly job, it's going to be hard to balance. But I love your perspective that it is what actually fuels you to be great in that. And I think it's funny, I was speaking to a leader the other day and he was just laughing. He's like, why do all the CEOs and the largest corporations corporations have lots of kids. He's like, because they have to provide. He's like, we had to be a CEO, because that's the only way to be able to like to be able to fund the family. He just like laughed about how much his his tuition bill for college and private school was higher than my income for the year. And I was like, oh my gosh, I just can't even. I just Cynthia: So upsetting. Collin Bass: can't. Yeah, I know. I can't even have a head around that. But I think that perspective totally flips it on its head of like, oh, like, it's kind of like a winning perspective of like, whenever you're behind all you You have to just like scratch out every different distraction, just focus and lock in. But I think like that holistic life view of saying like, hey, like whenever you invite more into your life, you'll be filled up more and in that there'll be more graces. I love your perspective on that. And I think that there's no better motivator than a growing family. And I think for me, like I'm not even quite there yet to have kids, but even just being married, it's like, all right, well, I got to lock in, you I'm going to make this happen. And getting married young can also be a financial. decision that is you know controversial in society and that's my little like understanding of this topic as well but I think that it's so beautiful like once you have this challenge of I'm gonna commit to this and I gotta lock in and make something happen then your life is better off for it and I can see how that is the same thing for this these mothers as well like it's going to be tough and taking time off especially in an hourly role or whatever else they're working trying to make ends meet but at end of the day you're so much more motivated to go make something happen in the world And I'm curious to hear some more stories like you got me so fired up. You got me emotional and also excited Tell us about like the last several months in this role What surprised you the most like what has just maybe not been something you expected at all? Cynthia: what surprised me is the holiness of the people doing this work. I mean, I am like, I consider myself in this role washing the feet of the people washing the feet every day. So as the executive director, I mean, my job is budgets and strategy and fundraising and organizational health and all these other things so that when the people walk through that door, and they come in and they talk to struggling women and moms and men and women who are struggling for mental health issues as a result of abortion. I want this place to be a rich soil for that. And just, think what's been the most shocking to me, and I shouldn't be shocked by this, right? Because what do we know about servants of the church is that they're so humble. But getting to know the people involved in our direct ministry. and really so many of them call in our professionals that were engineers and tech professionals that made tons of money in their former jobs. And they come in here every day at a massive pay cut. And they just sit and spend time with people. It's breathtaking to witness. It's an honor to serve them. It's an honor for our community to have them. And so My job is really to shine the light on these people that are serving the most needy. And then, haven't had as much, I don't get to do a lot of direct ministry to our populations because I'm busy signing checks and things like that. Collin Bass: Hahaha Cynthia: So I'm finding a lot of ways of, of experiencing our ministry, sitting at the feet of these people who, these people who have, are doing this work and I'm learning a lot and I'm just pleasantly just, my breath is taken away by the beauty of what they're doing. Collin Bass: Yeah, yeah, and I want to keep going on this track, but I want to take a pause for a second. You mentioned this idea of people leaving the corporate world to be part of this mission, and I've seen that so often, especially in, even in my 20s, seeing peers already leaving their corporate jobs to go pursue a mission of a pay cut or just as an opportunity to go chase a passion. And I want to hear your perspective. You're hiring these people, you're inviting these people into the team that have been massively successful, but they're leaving it all to be part of a mission, and you've done something similar in that. Like tell us about that perspective of like what it's like to work in a place that you so deeply believe in the mission but also like in a place where your job every day actually gets you fired up and gets you out of bed in the morning with this passion to live. Cynthia: Yeah, it's like, it's a dream come true, honestly. And it's not a reality for everybody, right? I mean, my ability to do this when we have six, when we have five kids going through Catholic school is because my husband is, stayed in his job and is a great provider for us. So it's really, it's really a privilege. And, and actually I did, I would say 95 % of the time that I was discerning this, I was totally gung ho. I did have a few moments of getting a little bit like, do I really want to give up this very cush role, this cush profession? Do I really want to give up all this time that I have with my own kids? We just moved into a new house close to St. Rita. I've had a blast getting the house set up. I've had so much fun. It's been very self-indulgent for me to do that. And I had a few moments where I thought, Lord, do you? do you really want me to go do this work? And I had this very clear convicted answer from God that was like, do you know what a privilege it is that I introduce you to my most beloved children, which are the most vulnerable? Do you have any idea how, what an honor it is that I've asked you to serve? my most beloved. He really put me in my place and edified me. This is the honor of your life to be close to my heart by being close to the needy. And it stopped me back in that moment. And that is how I feel. And I have so many friends that I'm already like. I want to recruit you to come work here when we build out this section, we build out this section. And I pray that those things happen. I pray that we get more talented professionals to come here and work. But it's such a privilege, honestly, that I'm able to do this because I know I'll have hard moments and I've already had hard moments, but by and large, it's been a dream. And it's been a dream to see how everything that I did beforehand, even when it was a suffering to stay and work on this corporate case that I didn't really care about and to put in my time, like God didn't waste any of it. He's used all of it for the preparation for this job. And so it's a season for me. of like really basking in the fulfillment of God's promises to me. Collin Bass: my gosh, I love that. I love that so much. And I think like there's no better perspective than that, especially with being able to not only go back to what you were saying before, be able to be partaking in the retreats, be able to be right there, being on the front lines, but also just to be able to take the time to reflect and say like, wow, like all the things God has prepared me for are all making sense right here in this moment. And I absolutely love that. tell us more about specifically the organization and maybe when people are stepping into it, maybe they, especially the people, would you call clients who's walking through the door what would you okay the clients that are walking through the door what are the biggest misunderstandings before someone like walks in and gets to be able to be part of that radical accompaniment Cynthia: Yeah, I think the culture beats women down. I think the culture says, can't do this. You're alone. I mean, the lies of the enemy are rampant. The lies of the enemy is, you're not enough. You can't do it. You're alone. You should be ashamed of yourself. And so it is such a grace when a woman walks through this door. and that the Holy Spirit has let her cut through the lies to actually come in. And so from the very first interaction, and we have the most beautiful staff that they have done this for years, and they are a loving, accepting presence to the women who walk through the door. There is nothing from this organization that is shaming. The political pro-life movement and the ministry movement The messaging is so different and our organization is not involved in anything political at all. It's just direct, it's to try to make the change that you wish to see in the world. It's to make this, to make the Catholic vision of the world a reality for women and men. and babies. So when they come through the door, the goal is to show them that they're loved, that they're welcomed, that they're not ashamed. The way that we talk, especially because we're informed by our healing after abortion ministries, the way that we talk about Abortion is very particular. You I'm still being trained and learning from our specialists about how to make sure that my language doesn't cast anybody out. When people feel shame, they go to denial and anger. And so if we want our doors to be open to people who've been victims of abortion, nothing that we can do is shaming. It just doesn't help. And it's not the way that Jesus Christ got Zacchaeus down from the tree and it's not the way that Jesus Christ spoke to the woman at the well. And so we take our hint from the gospel and how to treat people. And I think it's very effective. Collin Bass: I love that, I love that. I'm curious too, to build off that and like that as you're loving them as they walk through the door, how do people find out? Like whenever they, maybe they find out about the retreat, maybe they find out about just the work that you're doing, how do you guys get people into the door? Maybe how are you as the leader like hoping to get more people through the door and share that mission of love with the world? Cynthia: So a ton of it's online because we were so grateful when Texas was able to fully ban in-person abortions. One thing that meant for us though is that women seeking, women who are abortion minded in Texas are getting abortion pills or they're traveling outside of state. So we no longer had an easy way of finding them. It used to be could go to an abortion clinic and pray the rosary and have a sign that said, do you wanna talk? And then you'd see them. Well now it's. you know, people on their phones or worse, men. I mean, this is the sad thing about the abortion pill is it's so much easier for men to coerce women to have the pill. I mean, it is just even just from a purely women empowerment feminist perspective, what the abortion pill has allowed in terms of female oppression is just unconscionable. And so we have to somehow intercept women as they look for an abortion clinic to drive to or as they order the abortion pill on their phone. And that just requires a ton of really savvy marketing. So we work with a number of marketing agencies that are experts in this. We use, you know, Facebook ads, targeted ads. We have, we're building out separate. online presences for all of our ministries. know, our Healing After Abortion ministry has a different audience. A lot of the people who come to those retreats are older. Maybe they have grandchildren and they're thinking about the grandchildren that they would have had if they had not chosen or been co-hosted in abortion. And so the target audience for Healing After Abortion is different. Obviously, know, abortion-minded women are women who are of fertility age, and so that's a different target. So, you know, we just restarted all of these things, you know, Gullin, take so much time and energy, resources. Like this is why it's such a blessing Collin Bass: of love. Cynthia: what you're doing and for the Catholic community here in Dallas. But, you know, it takes so much time, energy and money, but we're on TikTok, we're on Instagram as our ministries. know, women are not going to come through the door. mean, some most many women that we want to come to the door are not going to come into the door if they just see Catholic pro-life community. We're branded separately as Bloom Pregnancy Resource Center. So and that's a separate it's kind of it's it's in our it's part of our organization, but it's in a different it's a different door and a different entity. And so we have to be really savvy about how we market ourselves so that we don't turn off the people that we're trying to attract. Collin Bass: Yeah, that's cool. It's cool too. It's a nonprofit, but it's also very mission oriented and it's run almost like a corporation. You have to have this very intensive process to reach the clients that you want to get at the door. I'm curious too, you step into this position, why did you decide this was the position for you? And then also what are the changes or maybe just the extra things you're adding in to the organization as the leader in this new time being in charge of the organization? Cynthia: Yeah, so yes to all those things. I'm so, so excited about not necessarily changes, but additions. So Collin Bass: Sure, sure. Cynthia: the dream for this organization is for this to be a place where the full spectrum of the sanctity of human life is lived. And so one thing that we haven't currently, that we haven't historically done in the past is, the beginning, what I call the beginning spectrum of life, is, know, theology of the body, fertility awareness, you know, youth engagement and theology of the body, chastity, all the way through fertility care, Catholic fertility care for couples experiencing infertility. And all of that, and natural family planning training, all of that full before the baby stuff is something I'm really passionate about building out because, you know. That's where I think that's where we really build a culture of life. And I don't think we don't get to abortion if we have a population of people in their hearts are submissive to the plan of the creator, which is that life is a gift. One big wake up call for me was when we lost our infant son Ignatius, looking back six months later, I had reflected when we held our son and he passed away, of course it was the most horrible thing we'd ever experienced. But we felt total submission to the Lord in saying goodbye. It was a surprise, it was shocking, was like hell had come, it was like hell coming up to earth to swallow the earth for us. It was dark. But we felt complete trust. felt, and my husband eulogized him at his funeral. he basically said, Grant said, you know, his, you know, we know that we're not entitled to your life. We're not entitled to you being here with us. This was a gift. And it's the gift that we openly accepted. And we were able to have that level of submission because we had practiced natural family planning for our whole marriage. most of, you know, and, and we've never been like, there's people out there on Instagram that are like joyful and NFP users. were just like utilitarian, like we're obedient. We're not going to be your poster child couple who's out there. And like, like, we're just like, this is the least it's like democracy. Like it's the least bad of all the bad scenarios. Like that's a natural family, you know, it just, we've never been those warm and fuzzy people, losing an infant. It was like we had called in. It was like. all of the graces of that method of living our lives were poured out on us because we had that submission. And actually, it allowed us to suffer less. It would have been a much greater suffering had we lost our baby, been without our baby, but also been mad at God and also felt like something was stolen from us. But we didn't feel like that. We knew that. So I want other couples to have the ability to live that way with submission to the Lord. And so much with natural family planning is just a logistics issue. just somebody went to some training when the marriage prep and it was weird and then they called an instructor and didn't call back. It's all so much of soul. Collin Bass: Yeah. Cynthia: And as I said, this is our priest recently, souls are lost in paperwork. Logistics are everything, right? And for the church, so we're grateful that we're a standalone corporation because we can apply business principles of these things. So that's NFP. And then the other side of the spectrum, is end of life issues. I mean, we are seeing just that it is a frenzy sweeping the world. the euthanasia. mean, just read an article about a woman in Canada, our sister country, used to be Catholic country, and a woman went in with back pain. And they offered her maid medical assistance in dying. She was like, my back hurts. It's like, I don't want to die. these stories are crazy. you can Google them, and they're all over the place. And I think a lot of people, secular people, thought You can offer medical assistance in dying, whatever you want to call it, in a limited number of cases. But we have seen how it is a slippery slope. Gospel of Life Dwellings, which is run by a wonderful Catholic religious sister, Sister Marie of the Trinity, she has two homes for the dying in the style of Mother Teresa. One is in the diocese of Dallas. And something that she's really woken me up to is that in Texas, euthanasia is illegal. But... that has not prevented hospice companies and kind of nefarious actors from kind of stealth euthanizing a number of people. you know, as people go through the end of life process and they're given palliative care, there are very strict requirements about when certain levels of morphine are administered. The Catholic view on this is like, you offer palliative care, of course, but you don't give people lethal doses of morphine, you know? So. But she has had to intervene in a number of circumstances where she's had a client who was basically being forced to euthanize. She's even had people that have fully recovered off hospice, who the hospice company was trying to euthanize. She's had to get really real with these hospice companies. So it is in our world that's obsessed with economic efficiency and economic value and the value of a person. And this patient is too expensive. all of these economic pressures and the dehumanization, it's just, it's an environment where that's very unkind to the elderly. So I'm really excited about ways that our organization can build out an elderly care and kind of an answer to some of those problems that we're seeing. Collin Bass: I love that. I love that so much. And I love that you guys, I mean, you said several minutes ago that you're not at all political, but also even when you take religion out of it too, even your own belief background, all you're doing is you're giving, you're just giving purpose back into life. And you're saying this life is beautiful and want more people to experience it. And I think there's, there's just something so innately beautiful about that perspective. Because like you said, there's, there's that two, the two populations you're really serving, the before pregnancy even happens and those at the end of life. And I have two like unique perspectives on that as well. My mom works, she volunteers at an end of life home. where she sees people pass all the time and she usually spends 10, 15 days or maybe longer, whatever the current situation is. But she's getting trained on how to walk with those who are breathing their last. And especially, I think it's from more of the, from a poorer perspective as well, people who maybe wouldn't have the dignity to be in that comfortable place. And I just love it. It's really cool to hear her perspective on the conversations you have whenever you know your last breath is in the next couple of hours or days. And then the other thing, which I just love having you on the show to just hear your perspective on, was that whenever I was growing up in high school, my parents did marriage counseling and they had couples come through the house all the time. But then they always said, like, if you ever need anything, let us know. But like, you know, it's kind of like an empty promise a lot of the time, like, we're here for you, but you you probably never need us. But there was a time when one of the couples came back and their house floated during Hurricane Harvey and they were like, hey, like, You said that if we ever need anything, we'll let you know like could we actually stay here for a couple weeks? we were like, yeah So so cool, but we got to get really close to this couple and during that time shortly after They they left our home They conceived and they were became pregnant and then they walked over the next year that pregnancy journey but really near and dear to our hearts is this mission because Their first child they had a couple of issues towards the end pregnancy and ended up at 40 weeks having a stillbirth. And that just changed our whole perspective for our family, just on the beauty of life, because take the religion, take politics, take everything out of it. Like, there's nothing more heartbreaking than a couple who is so excited, especially a little bit older, to have their first child, and like, it's taken from them at the last moment. And they got to see it. They got to meet them, but not at all, never with a heartbeat. And that was just so heartbreaking for our family and just changed our whole perspective on life. in general. But now that the Lord has graced them with that perspective, they now have two kids and they're living the life that they desired. But it began with a lot of heartbreak. just for me and my family and our perspective, it's just crazy that they're, especially taking all the different perspectives out of it, life is so beautiful and so good. And that there's just so many people who want to just take that joy away from us. And even when you take that perspective of those who have never been able to have kids, and they really want it, that's also heartbreaking to be able to like hey like you have the gift of pregnancy like run with that and like a lot of lore to pour into that because there are people who wish they had that gift and they're not able to or it just looks different for them so I've been just really motivated from your perspective because I didn't even really put it together that that's what my mom did until you share that's part of your mission as well and I was like oh wow this is also kind of a life ministry that she's doing so yeah I love I love what you're trying to do and also the the two avenues of impacting the community I love it. Cynthia: thank you. Well, I'm so that your mom sounds amazing. I would love to meet her and hear about what she's Collin Bass: Hahaha Cynthia: doing and where she's doing it, because we're getting up to speed on all the different players in this environment. And then I'm so sorry that your friends lost. And but I'm happy for them that they have a baby in heaven. mean, this Collin Bass: Yeah. Cynthia: is like, you know, the old the oldest lie of the enemy and the oldest tactic of the enemy is to make us feel. worthless as human beings. And you know why? It's like, it's in our tradition that the devil's jealous. He's jealous that we are made in the image and likeness of God. And from the very beginning in the garden, he tries to tell us that we're lacking in something. And you see it all over the culture. And our mission here, and I think our Catholic mission, is simply to just receive the glory of our created identity as in the image and likeness of God. I if I could rebrand the organization, which I won't, because I want to keep the Catholic and the pro-life, but if I could, it would be something like life is sacred. Life is Collin Bass: Yeah. Cynthia: sacred. Life is good. You are good. it's an anti-people-critisize-pro-life movement. The pro-life movement is about affirming the beauty of human life and to making it a reality with healing and with accompaniment. And there really is, it's a very interesting paradox because when we lost our son, just like when your friends lost their baby, it actually, it really reinforced for us the power of human life because it impacted us in so many ways. It impacted people that we know. We had people say that they went back to church for the first time after going to Iggy's funeral. It brought people closer to God. It's, you know, little Micah Kim, the five-year-old who passed away. Collin Bass: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cynthia: His dad is posting all these beautiful stories of the intercessory power of his five-year-old son in heaven. And I have a little list of little miracles that have been attributed to Iggy, our son, too. We asked people at his funeral, Please think of Iggy and use him as an intercessor for you personally. And I love that we're given that deep connection with people. I mean, in so many ways, I feel closer to Iggy in heaven that I can't even feel to my. living children because we have that true unity in the body of Christ. There's no sin that separates us. And so it gives you seeing death and seeing the other side of it. It actually does give you a real value, I think, for for human life. Collin Bass: Yeah, yeah, and I love that. I love that Micah Kim story as well. And it's crazy to just see just all the lives that are impacted. mean, him as an example, his dad, I mean, even just the following, people love that idea of just following his story. he, not at all about gaining followers or anything like that, but he gained over 100,000 followers. 100,000 people are just so captivated by this story of like the life that was lost, but also the life that is continuously living and impacting lives around them. And I just think it's so beautiful. perspective on life and the work that you're doing and I'm so excited to see where it leads over these next couple of years and as we begin to close I wanted to ask two questions one future-facing one sort of retrospectively and I'd love to begin with looking back going back to that person you were graduating at Notre Dame and not no idea where you're gonna be and kind of putting on your best face to maybe get that first corporate job what do you wish you knew back then to prepare you for where you are today Cynthia: that God is not gonna waste me. I was so afraid of being useful and doing the right thing, but. God was there every minute guiding my steps and he wasn't gonna waste me and he saw the desires of my heart and the desires of my heart were good. It's okay to have desires that aren't fulfilled. God is gonna fulfill them at some point. So for me and for anybody else out there, just trust that God sees you and that he's not putting good seeds in your heart without a desire to fulfill them. Collin Bass: Man, I love that. I love that. That's such a good perspective. And I think that's exactly right. And especially as you prepare for a corporate job, there's nothing, no better perspective to have because it's easy even as I graduated a couple of years ago, like to see. what the corporate role is gonna offer me. And it is empty in some senses, and it's like, where is this going to lead me in my faith and in my virtuous life that I'm trying to pursue? But I love that perspective, and it's so clear based on your story too. Like if it's not making sense in the moment, it will make sense. Even those cases you spend long hours on, they all boiled up to prepare you for who you are today. And I love that. And then now looking to the future, what do you think you will need to hear? What's the advice you need to give yourself for Cynthia 10 years from now? Cynthia: Okay, great. God is in control. Because I know that there will be times and not for, don't control Cynthia, God is in control. Because I, you know, in seeing the needs of the organization, the needs of our population, I mean, it is, it's like, I can't, I told the staff last week, guys, that if I could just get an IV of information and just like have it, like, Collin Bass: you Cynthia: I would take a drip, like I am learning so much. I'm thinking of plans. I'm like, my brain is going in a million different directions because I want to serve. I want this organization to grow. I want to serve more moms. I want to serve more women. like the ambition is just coursing through my veins. remembering that this is the Lord's work and the Lord chooses the pace and the Lord chooses the way. And so I can already tell that's going to be a temptation of mine. for Cynthia to drive and it's like, no, is in the driver's seat. I need to move to the passenger seat and let him drive. Collin Bass: I love it. I love your perspective there and I could not be more grateful for you to be on the show. I've learned a lot. got three pages of notes. I go back through it and just dissect for myself. But for our listeners who are connecting, maybe they learned something, maybe they're inspired by what you do. What is the best way for them to get connected with you or also your organization? Cynthia: Awesome. So our Instagram handle is ProLifeDallas. And my Instagram handle is Cynthia Marie Schmidt. And we have LinkedIn. We have a great website. I mean, honestly, for your listeners calling, mean, message me on Instagram. There's all kinds of ways for you to get involved. There's long-term volunteer opportunities. There's short-term volunteer opportunities. Something that we really want and need are young people who are captivated by this mission because You guys are the key to so much, Colin. As I said, everything is about online ministry and witness. To bring people into in-person community, we need people online evangelizing to bring people into in-person community. And so if there are people that are interested in sharing, producing content, like giving advice, showing up, mean, anything we are so, so grateful for, especially for your listeners. So thank you. Collin Bass: Yes, yes, of course. Well, I love it. I think I'm already following you guys. I'll definitely give you a follow as well. yeah, Cynthia, this time was so much fun. Thank you for your perspective. Cynthia: Thank you. Collin Bass: Thank you for the time. And yeah, thank you again for being on the show. Awesome. Cynthia: Thank you. Your work is so meaningful. Thank you, Colin. Thank you.