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Timber Frame Cottages: What You Need to Know Before Falling in Love · On The Lake with James Pitropov

0:00
James: You know what I really love about that?
0:01
James: that structure are the, the huge overhangs.
0:04
James: And I think there's a real opportunity for that approach on these rocky sites in Muske and Halliburton.
0:11
James: If we can build over the, the terrain and not constantly be blasting, trying to fit in these flat monolithic boxes, it's a real, design opportunity, Welcome back everyone.
0:35
James: Welcome back to On The Lake, episode number three, timber Frame Cottages.
0:39
James: What clients need to know Before Falling in Love.
0:41
James: Let's get right into timber frame construction, what it is and what it isn't.
0:46
James: Timber frame has been around for quite a long time, and it is really just in the last 50 or 60 years that it has had a resurgence in Canadian architecture.
0:57
James: If we look at such architectural giants, such as Frank Lloyd Wright earlier in the 20th century, they were looking back at those famous Japanese timber structures and particularly the Japanese Imperial Hotel of all things was a structure completely built out of timbers mid-century.
1:19
James: Beyond architects here in Canada, two that are particularly notable and that, hear me speaking about quite a bit.
1:26
James: Arthur Erickson and Ron Tom, iconic contemporary West coast timber frame architects, mid-century modern, that genre.
1:33
James: They reinterpreted the timber frame and it has had a big resurgence in of all places, cottage country.
1:40
James: Now, a lot of people might be familiar with traditional timber frame that you might see in an old Ontario or Quebec farmhouse Heavy timbers with hand cut mortar, mortis, and tendon join.
1:54
James: Really beautiful look.
1:55
James: You see markings of, woodworking by hand on, the timbers.
1:59
James: Amazing examples of this in Ontario, Mennonite country, Fergus aor.
2:04
James: Beautiful.
2:05
James: It's a beautiful construction technique.
2:07
James: the timbers are built offsite, erected on site by groups of workers.
2:14
James: It's a great style.
2:16
James: That's not the timber frame that we're doing these days.
2:19
James: Log construction is log construction, timber frame, well log construction, fantastic Norwegian scribed, joinery.
2:28
James: it's really cool.
2:29
James: Luck squared construction.
2:31
James: Is that the timber frame that we're gonna talk about today?
2:33
James: No.
2:34
James: Things have moved on into a new direction, which is really exciting.
2:38
James: So what we're focused on is actual pure timber framing, which previously was all done by hand and still can be.
2:47
James: But now as we'll discuss with our guest today with Nico, with the advent of CNC machine cutting Of timbers and the joinery, we can still get a traditional look.
3:02
James: We can get a more modern look.
3:04
James: But the thing now is we can incorporate more modern detailing.
3:09
James: Stronger detailing, concealed metal plates, concealed joinery, concealed steel structure within traditional beams.
3:19
James: So not only can we do a beautiful timber frame, but we can get those fantastic big overhangs on the lakes that just seem to hover over the landscape.
3:29
James: Currently I'm working on four interesting projects, two of which we're gonna talk about today.
3:35
James: Both are very modern.
3:37
James: One has the sweeping roof lines over the bay quinte in southern Ontario, the other one right in Canadian shield country.
3:46
James: Heavy timbers with giant overhangs.
3:48
James: I guarantee you're not gonna see this anywhere on, on the media these days.
3:53
James: it's taking.
3:54
James: Timber construction and applying it to more modern open concepts that people are looking for today, but it still has a handcrafted touch.
4:04
James: You're absolutely gonna love it.
4:06
James: Please join me now with our colleague and friend Nico.
4:09
James: Fond from Bridgewood Engineering.
4:11
James: Today I have a very special guest, a, a colleague and, and a good friend, Nico Fond.
4:15
James: He is the owner and, president of Bridgewood Engineering.
4:20
James: we are going to get into the details of good design planning and some new technologies that are out there.
4:27
James: welcome, aboard Nico.
4:30
Speaker: Thanks James.
4:30
Speaker: Thanks for having me
4:31
James: Nico, tell, tell us what's, tell us What's new today, Nico,
4:34
Speaker: I have a new office.
4:37
Speaker: yeah, maybe I can tell a bit about Bridgewood Engineering services.
4:40
Speaker: Okay.
4:40
Speaker: We are, um, an engineering and design firm, specialize in, in timber frame.
4:44
Speaker: We're on the one stop shop for timber solution like.
4:47
Speaker: We work like with architect like gems where we help with the design.
4:51
Speaker: we do the engineering and we can also supply and install all the timber components.
4:56
Speaker: So yeah, we aim to be like a one stop shop for, for timber solutions.
5:01
James: Nico, tell us a little bit about your, past and your schooling.
5:04
James: I found that, uh, quite interesting.
5:07
Speaker: Yeah, so I'm from France, where I study, wood engineering.
5:10
Speaker: So, I'm a structural engineer, specialize in wood buildings.
5:14
Speaker: And in 2014, I, um, came to Canada for a six month internship to, to get my master degree and never left.
5:23
Speaker: Yeah.
5:23
Speaker: actually, yeah, it was, I arrived in March 12th, 2014.
5:28
Speaker: So it was like, my anniversary was a couple days ago, but yeah, 12 is 12 years.
5:34
Speaker: And, loving it here, like, lot of, forest, lot of, wood construction, wood buildings, had the opportunity to.
5:40
Speaker: To build my own house.
5:42
Speaker: I met my wife, we got a kid, and now I'm open a build, uh, my own company a few years back.
5:47
Speaker: So now it's, uh, living the Canadian dream.
5:49
Speaker: It's, it's
5:50
Nico: awesome.
5:50
James: Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
5:51
James: Nico, you're, um, uh, I understand that, you grew up in a Swiss village and the local architecture there, there was a lot of timber, construction, where you grew up.
6:01
Speaker: I'm born in Switzerland, but I grew up at the border in France, in the French A, So a lot of wood chare And um, yeah, that's where I, that started my love for wood building is that those cha are just beautiful and I've been standing for like hundreds of years and it's, yeah, and it just feel like so cozy inside and it's just so beautiful.
6:21
Speaker: So, yeah, I always knew I want to, to do something with building with Woodies.
6:26
Speaker: It was just fun.
6:27
James: how did you end up in Ontario, Nico?
6:28
James: Like how, particularly in cottage country, what was the draw for you?
6:31
Speaker: yeah, so while I've had sent, I don't know, probably 200 emails all over North America and, um, a company, uh, called Viceroy got back to me and, um, they gave me two options.
6:43
Speaker: They say, oh, do, do you want to go to, Vancouver or Port Hope?
6:46
Speaker: And I didn't know anything about Canada.
6:48
Speaker: I look at a map, I say, oh, Vancouver looks nice.
6:50
Speaker: And well finally, there was no more room in Vancouver, so they sent me in PO Hope.
6:55
Speaker: And yeah, I was not very prepared when I arrived, like in March, I didn't realize, like in Europe, March is still pretty warm here.
7:01
Speaker: I arrived in PO Hope, super small village, super cold.
7:05
Speaker: yeah, I was not expecting it, really, Not prepared, but it was tough.
7:08
Speaker: But then from there it was, Everything got better.
7:11
Speaker: I got friends, they helped me to find a better place and uh, yeah, and it just been amazing
7:15
Nico: then.
7:16
James: Yeah.
7:16
James: It's interesting that you started out in Port Hope.
7:18
James: Like Port Hope has such an interesting history to it, and some of the architecture is quite, unique.
7:24
James: A lot of heritage, architecture there.
7:26
Speaker: Yeah.
7:27
Speaker: Beautiful buildings in the, on the
7:28
Nico: street for sure.
7:29
James: And, and Nico, how did you become, interested in.
7:32
James: the heavy, timber in particular.
7:35
James: I know that you have a master's degree in timber Technology.
7:39
James: How did you get into all of that?
7:41
Speaker: where I grew up, a lot of wood buildings and I decided to study, like wood engineering and I also, as a kid, I always loved like visiting Cassar Cathedral where you see all those heavy timbers, all those connections standing for like hundreds of years and.
7:58
Speaker: I always found it very interesting, like the, the joinery between those timbers, the craftsmanship, knowing that, yeah, hundreds of years we could do that.
8:07
Speaker: So, and and it still stand and those are beautiful.
8:10
Speaker: And then we I arrived here, I, I saw that also was something pretty popular and there was like a lot of work in, in the industry, like to build beautiful cottages with timber frame and, I work for a company that had, CNC machines where everything is pre-cut and yeah, just fall in love with the whole process where just so fun to be able to, you engineer something, you design it, you send it to the machine, then you build it so you see the whole process from start to finish from like a little, drawing on the paper to like the full building.
8:41
Nico: process.
8:41
James: Yeah, You know, it's so interesting, Nico.
8:43
James: my background is that I started out out west of all places and I had an early start with architecture and engineering firms out of Calgary.
8:52
James: We were, designing and building ski shellies in places like Ferney, bc.
8:57
James: So I was introduced to the craft and of it heavy timbers, big construction.
9:04
James: And then when I came back to Ontario, I noted in cottage country the idea of cottage wasn't.
9:10
James: As fully developed with heavy timber, construction yet.
9:14
James: But I think there was always a connection here in that the, the, I, I guess the tradition of, of arts and crafts, architecture, timber frame can lend itself to it, particularly with the, the detailing and, and the, the framing, which a lot of people maybe, may have seen and, and, and may be interested in.
9:34
James: what's interesting with your practice, Nico, is that you've also taken to the technology quite, wholeheartedly and that the CNC aspect of, custom cutting timbers before framing is quite interesting.
9:50
James: Can you tell us a little bit about what you've done with CNC Nico?
9:53
Speaker: Yeah, so CG machine really allow us to be like super precise.
9:59
Speaker: Like our machine is a five x has a lot of different tools, five axis.
10:05
Speaker: it's as precise as we can be with wood.
10:07
Speaker: And it's a you also a lot of time like.
10:11
Speaker: Cutting a lot of joinery between timbers will be like a mortis and toon, where you have the toon, which be the the male part and the, and the mortis, like the female part.
10:20
Speaker: And those, connection, if you had to cut them by hand, it takes a lot of time where a CNC machine can, can do it in a couple minutes.
10:28
Speaker: So by doing that, you you save a lot of time and you also have great quality.
10:32
Speaker: So after the machine, you can check, make sure all, so you spend most of the time actually checking, making sure everything checks, everything fits well, instead of spending most of the time cutting it.
10:42
Speaker: So it you Yeah.
10:45
Speaker: Great accuracy and great quality.
10:47
James: So to be clear, for viewers and listeners.
10:51
James: the joinery of the heavy timbers is a big part of the craft and, the structural integrity of what we're building.
10:58
James: And traditionally these were, mortis antenna and hand cut joints and so on.
11:03
James: And people still do that, don't they?
11:05
James: there's still room for the traditional way of putting together these timber structures.
11:09
James: Now what you're doing now, with CNC, so automated, I guess you're designing an AutoCAD 3D modeling software
11:17
Nico: mm-hmm.
11:18
James: And you're pre-cutting the timbers so that they can be fitted offsite and then rebuilt on site with precision.
11:27
James: That's
11:27
Nico: correct.
11:28
James: Possibly what that could do is previously, at least with the work that we've done, you would need really skilled craftspeople to do the joinery.
11:36
James: Now it probably opens it up to a wider.
11:39
James: Range of installers because it is becoming more assembly and less craft on site.
11:45
Speaker: Yeah, it's pretty much a Lego set now.
11:47
Speaker: Like you have, we have drawings where you have piece numbers and yeah.
11:52
Speaker: So all the pieces, like number 100 goes with 101, You put it together, like use either screw or a peg.
12:00
Speaker: So it actually gets, I built my own house and I'm an engineer, so it's, it gets pretty, yeah.
12:05
Nico: It's, not that complicated.
12:07
Nico: So
12:07
James: you're personally living the timber frame, dream a Nico.
12:10
Speaker: that's correct.
12:11
James: Yeah.
12:12
James: so Nico, the projects that we've been involved in, I guess they come in different types.
12:15
James: previously to meeting you, I did a lot of traditional timber frame and then I've done a lot of posts in beam, and some people ask about the difference in it.
12:25
James: So what I do is I like to point people back to some iconic Canadian architects, such as Ron Tom and, Arthur Erickson as well.
12:33
James: Both prominent West Coast architects during the sixties and seventies and onwards.
12:38
James: their style was a little bit different.
12:41
James: What they would do is they would have their posts and then they would saddle double beams, double timbers so that things were not so much cut into each other, like a true timber frame, like A barn.
12:56
James: Mm-hmm.
12:57
James: Things are cut and fitted together and it goes up in parallel bends.
13:00
James: It's taken down, it's put back up again.
13:03
James: What we are doing is I'm doing a lot of that mid-century modern, post and beam, and that is still, aligned with, with the type of the work that we're doing together now.
13:14
Nico: Mm-hmm.
13:14
James: what I've liked about.
13:16
James: The timber work that we're doing with on the CNC machines with you is that in some ways it's more pre predictable and it's advantageous to to build things off the site, isn't it?
13:26
Nico: Mm-hmm.
13:28
James: Now,
13:28
Nico: Yeah, like exactly.
13:30
James: one interesting, opportunity we had Nico, and maybe you can tell our viewers a little bit about it, was, we have a project on, Chandos Lake, which is in the Canadian Shield, and it's a heavy timber project.
13:42
James: Now, the thing, however, though it's heavy timber doesn't mean it has to look heavy.
13:47
James: We want to have this almost floating structure with big overhangs overhanging, the landscape on the lake there.
13:54
James: You introduced some steel into there, which I found really interesting to get those big overhangs.
13:59
James: what can you do with the overhangs, Nico?
14:00
James: Like what can you do with steel?
14:02
James: a hybrid of timber and steel.
14:06
James and Nico Mar 20_26: Yeah.
14:07
Speaker: So that's, yeah, that was a beautiful design.
14:10
Speaker: You, you did.
14:11
Speaker: And because of the very large overhang, we had some very high loading and we did even even want to use like too high, too big of a, of a, of a, of
14:23
Nico: beam.
14:24
Nico: So because of
14:24
James: the, the, timbers get bigger with the long spans, the, the timbers start getting really deep and,
14:30
Speaker: And they get too deep and then it looks out of proportion.
14:33
Speaker: So.
14:33
Speaker: What we did is actually we used, for the certain beam, like the one that we're gonna get too deep, we used like steel beams that then we ended up being cladded.
14:42
Speaker: and so at the end of the day, the homeowner, we don't realize there are steel beams.
14:46
Speaker: cause on this project it was not the intention to show steel, like.
14:49
Speaker: you can do project where it's also cool to have some steel accents and things like that.
14:54
Speaker: I don't think that was what We wanted to do in that project, but like I said, like yeah, all the steel beams will then belut with the same materials and the, the post and the, and, and some of the beams.
15:04
Speaker: So it will all look like a a timber
15:07
Nico: modern timber frame,
15:09
James: Yeah.
15:09
James: You know what I really love about that?
15:11
James: that structure are the, the huge overhangs.
15:13
James: And I think there's a real opportunity for that approach on these rocky sites in Muske and Halliburton.
15:21
James: If we can build over the, the terrain and not constantly be blasting, trying to fit in these flat monolithic boxes, it's a real, design opportunity, for us.
15:33
Nico: Mm-hmm.
15:34
James: So, some of the questions that we get Nico, I, I guess obviously there are different degrees to which you, you can do timber frame and for viewers that aren't completely familiar with, with the beauty, let's say the beauty of timber frame, Please check out our websites.
15:49
James: You can check out Lakeside architecture.ca, Lakeside Construction Management for the build side.
15:55
James: And then, please check out, Nico's website.
15:57
James: You can look him up.
15:58
James: Bridgewood Engineering.
16:00
James: Nico, can you tell us, something about the cost, like cost aspects?
16:05
James: What I found with clients is they come in certain categories.
16:09
James: So there are ones that, like a little bit of timber accents.
16:14
James: And on the other end of the spectrum, there are others that want the full extreme, a hundred percent timber frame, but on some projects, I'm working on a few with you.
16:24
James: We're working on another one on the quinte.
16:26
James: Now the difference is Chandos Lake in the Canadian Shield is a full timber frame.
16:32
James: The one on Bay Quinte is.
16:33
James: a hybrid where we use a bit of both.
16:36
James: Where do you personally draw the line, like on design, like with costs, with timeframes, availability?
16:43
James: Like where do you see the sweet spot for how much timber to have in your projects?
16:49
James: To have manageable costs and still have a great design?
16:55
Speaker: Yeah.
16:55
Speaker: I guess it all depends of what look we're going for If we're going for like a very like traditional timber frame house, or if we're going with a very modern house with, very clean lines and more minimalist, also depends on the budget.
17:13
Speaker: Like timbers.
17:14
Speaker: When you add timbers, if it's worth out, it wouldn't add too much to the cost.
17:17
Speaker: but if it's not worth out, like it can bring a lot because then every structure of members get doubled.
17:24
Speaker: So it can add a lot to the cost.
17:26
Speaker: But so for that project, I think it was smart how like we timbers, were added only on particular area where it would add values to the house.
17:34
Speaker: the screen porch, some nice overhangs.
17:37
Speaker: like some in the great room, like there is a main area where, it looks nice to add some timbers and really add something to
17:44
Nico: design of the house.
17:45
James: Yeah, So Nico, here's what I'm hearing from clients and from people out there and what they seem to like.
17:51
James: clients like the timber frame look.
17:53
James: they like the more open spans.
17:56
James: The big Douglas fur that we bring in, there's different grades of it.
18:00
James: There's clear fur.
18:01
James: There's fur that has more of the grain in it and so on.
18:05
James: So we, we get the timber look and some are purist.
18:08
James: they like the idea of the full structure.
18:11
James: They've seen the timber frames.
18:12
James: Maybe when they're skiing out west, they're at chalets or in Quebec.
18:16
James: There's some beautiful examples of timber frame.
18:18
James: and I know that some designers and builders out there, they will attempt a hybrid and they'll scatter timber frames in between all the drywall, which clients aren't too crazy about.
18:29
James: But what we did at Quinte, at the Bay Quinte, with you, I thought was interesting.
18:34
James: So just for the viewers, 3,500 square foot cottage, really, it's a house that They're going to re, retire to right on the waterfront.
18:42
James: Quite interesting.
18:43
James: They like the timber frame look, but it didn't need to be throughout and where they could save money, they would go for it.
18:50
James: But where we could get them the full experience, we did.
18:53
James: So what we did is instead of having a two story house, we did two stories on the bedroom wing with regular stick construction, but on the part of the house has the great room, the kitchen, the dining room, a den.
19:09
James: That is one floor with a sweeping roof line, a mono slope roof.
19:16
James: And by not having the second floor above we did, it was pretty much a full timber frame, on one part of the house.
19:24
James: So that's the way to go.
19:25
James: And, I like the old, we had the big overhangs there too, Nico.
19:29
James: mm-hmm.
19:29
James: What we did is we also extended visually the roof on the inside had Douglas fir planks underneath it, and we extended it past the window line right to the exterior.
19:42
James: So do you like that?
19:43
James: look, Nico, because I think
19:45
Nico: your
19:45
James: place has that idea.
19:47
Nico: Okay.
19:47
Nico: And when you, you like the exterior and the interior kind of match and you have, like, on my house, you also have the rafter.
19:53
Nico: they seem to go through the walls.
19:55
Nico: but yeah, like it's very nice to have a sort, have a, whole wide salt project from outside and inside
20:03
James: Nico.
20:03
James: when people ask me about a budget for timber frame on their place, I end up with two sort of sweet spots and let me know if you agree or disagree.
20:12
James: So, on a lot of cottage projects, if they're looking at some timber frame, maybe on an entry, some individual beams in the kitchen, walkout covered porch is what a lot of people, clients are interested in.
20:25
James: well, what I suggest is basic sort of, highlights.
20:30
James: Maybe running into like 150 K to 200 K.
20:33
James: you're gonna get a pretty good look, but light, like you're going into it light.
20:37
James: And then to really go heavier on the timbers, you can end up at maybe 400,000, 500,000 if you want a a, a really.
20:47
James: like a more, a more, of the heavy timber look.
20:49
James: And then beyond that, really the sky's the limit.
20:52
James: we've had clients asking for not only for the timber frame, not only for the traditional joinery, but they're also looking for peeled log, some of those resort type details.
21:03
James: Are you getting people asking for those custom details, Nico, like peel dogs and the giant, driftwood beams?
21:10
James: Like, do you get a lot of that?
21:11
Speaker: We get sometimes.
21:13
Speaker: Ask where they really want the timbers to look old.
21:16
Speaker: So we have a machine that we call like a, a ification, where we kind of scratch the timbers.
21:22
Speaker: So they look kind of like, they came out of a barn.
21:25
Speaker: So some people like that.
21:26
Speaker: we've done project where they actually like the timbers to look very rough.
21:31
Speaker: So after we've killed them as the timbers, everything was square.
21:35
Speaker: Then we came and we like.
21:37
Speaker: Smashed it with like chains and hammers.
21:41
Speaker: Yeah, and that's what they wanted.
21:43
Speaker: They wanted it to look up.
21:44
Speaker: So, but that was Usually people like the clean look.
21:47
Speaker: So most, all of our team members are sanded before they go to site.
21:51
Speaker: So, and then they get stained.
21:53
Speaker: we, yeah, that diversification.
21:55
Speaker: Comes pretty popular.
21:56
Speaker: which is nice, is it takes the stain very well, because of that grain, like, it like really absorbs the stain very well.
22:02
Speaker: So, you don't have to stain it as often.
22:05
Speaker: and it's kind of a cool look because as you know, timbers, for, if you use pine for example, it's a pretty soft material.
22:12
Speaker: So by mistake, I don't know, you move a furniture and you can ding it and there will like be that little.
22:18
Speaker: not, knocked on the timbers, if you have a little bit of character on it, where that was a, oh, that was part of it, you never tell.
22:26
Speaker: So yeah, Few options.
22:28
James: Nico, we found that a lot of our, clients, they do love the look of the old, reclaimed timbers that you get from barns.
22:36
James: And there's some, we've worked with some amazing craftspeople, a lot of, Mennonite craftspeople that will take these reclaimed timbers, and they still have the original markings from the woodworking tools like the ads and so on.
22:51
James: it's exciting to hear that you can duplicate some of that on your machinery to get that rustication, because that's part of the character of the wood as well, is that it has that memory of, the hand work on it, another, interesting project we had was up on Lake of Bays, and there's two things going materialized for the cottage.
23:09
James: One is that the owner of it, was the owner of one of the quarries, up near Huntsville.
23:16
James: So we had access to this beautiful, granite like surface scab, granite that we had hand selected.
23:21
James: We had a good stone mason, but just coincidentally in the water offshore, there were some buried logs from the logging area era.
23:30
James: Now I'm sure that he had all the approvals to claim this timber.
23:36
James: so he had timbers from the logging area with all the markings and so on, and we ended up taking it out, drying it, kiln, drying it, and then using it as a mantle over fireplace, That's awesome.
23:47
James: Went with the look of the overall place, which was more of a hybrid.
23:50
James: So sometimes taking, like you could do a timber frame Nico, and then, highlight like certain feature timbers as well, so you could go with timbers that you're supplying and then still get some of these either reclaimed timbers or Mennonite timbers to complete the look.
24:08
James: if that's what you want, couldn't you?
24:10
Speaker: Exactly.
24:11
Speaker: Yeah.
24:11
Speaker: And mostly, mostly for decorative, elements, like you said, like mental or you can add like a few decorative, uh, rafters.
24:19
Speaker: Um, yeah, that's
24:22
Nico: that.
24:22
Nico: It's a great idea.
24:24
James: Nico on a lot of, the projects and on some upcoming projects, like I like to focus on what the client has selected instead of what I've used, what the clients have gone for is reclaimed timbers and they're coming outta places like the Ottawa Valley still.
24:37
James: there's timbers that are reclaimed.
24:39
James: And reclaim Panlock for the flooring as well.
24:42
James: Both, which have settled in time because they, they've been waterlogged and they have some of that real true Canadian cottage country character to it.
24:53
James: But I think that dovetails really nicely with more precise work that you would do in the shop with CNC.
24:59
James: And then we bring in these feature, timbers so that we can get the most, bang for the buck on a particular budget, whether it's$80,000 for some timbers, or whether it's 500 or$800,000 for an exquisite resort.
25:14
James: it's all possible to us, isn't it?
25:15
Nico: Mm-hmm.
25:16
Speaker: the thing with fl timbers, it's, it's hard to, to put them on our CNC machine because.
25:21
Speaker: it needs to be a perfect, square or rectangular timbers for the sensory machine to know how to grab it, where to cut it.
25:27
Speaker: So reclaimed timbers are usually not perfectly square.
25:31
Speaker: so that's a great idea to use like structural timbers.
25:34
Speaker: And then between them, I like reclaimed timbers,
25:38
Nico: as decorative.
25:39
James: just for our viewers, here's how it goes historically with architects and engineers, myself being an architect and Nico, the engineer, we end up in the same place.
25:49
James: But along the way, sometimes one is leaning more towards exclusively the structure and productivity.
25:54
James: And on the architectural side, sometimes there's a little whimsy and, experimentation.
26:00
James: and it all comes together.
26:02
James: So it's good to have a couple of different approaches.
26:04
James: we find that also on site with our workers and timber framers, they bring a little bit of character to things too, because they'll have build things a certain way.
26:13
James: And I'll, I'll just give you a quick example On one of our mid-century modern timber projects, this is on a small lake off of Lake Muskoka.
26:20
James: It's Morrison Lake.
26:22
James: And what we did there is, we did a, a, a traditional, uh, timber frame.
26:28
James: And when our windows came in, we got windows that have the anodized aluminum on the outside and on the inside they're Douglas first, so that they match the framing.
26:38
James: But the, between the windows, there was a lot of framing.
26:41
James: So what we did to dismay of the engineer, and I'm pretty sure Nico, you might have been the one on at the time, what we did is we wanted to have more like complete glass on the lakeside.
26:52
James: So what we actually did is on the advice of the framers is we took apart the window frames and we muled the big sliders with, the, clear story windows, the trance windows above.
27:04
James: So just based on what people built like timber framers have done on the lakes and stuff, we've picked up some details.
27:10
James: And so we modified the original engineering design a little bit, but we benefit from what people are doing on the lakes.
27:18
James: And so we all learn from each other.
27:20
James: project to project, two Nico.
27:23
James: We, I've had, Nico, you've, you've been involved in some other projects for us as well, like, did you find with building your own place, Nico, that when you would've had to coordinate your mechanical systems like your heating, your HRV, which is the fresh air return.
27:40
James: There's line feeds.
27:42
James: If you're going with the timber frame, you need to plan for concealing these areas or having like back chases and that.
27:48
James: and I think from what I've seen at your place, you've done that pretty successfully.
27:51
James: Like you don't have exposed.
27:53
Speaker: like you said, like every, you want everything to be well sought ahead of time.
27:57
Speaker: that's why working with an architect like you, you can make sure, like, all, every single line like You know that the edge vac is not gonna be It's not gonna look out of place.
28:08
Speaker: Like even if like, we also want to with a plumber, like sometimes they need to, to have to, run some pipes and stuff and Yeah.
28:16
Speaker: Um, with the timbers, like you don't want to drill big holes in on the timbers and things like that.
28:21
Speaker: So Yeah, you, you want to make sure everything is, is, well sought, with all like, from
28:27
Nico: like, start to finish on the entire project.
28:29
James: Yeah.
28:29
James: So it takes a little, a little, bit of extra planning.
28:32
James: in, in some cases too, like at Chand Lake, we have some areas there where, because it's a complete pure timber frame, there isn't, a lot of concealed areas to, to run, services and so on.
28:44
James: So what we ended up doing, not dissimilar to the background that I have in the studio right now, in certain areas, we've actually had brought down drop ceilings, and not bulkheads, but drop slat ceilings so that we can, filter out the view of certain, like ducks and so forth.
29:02
James: in most cases we're not running duct work in timber frame places.
29:06
James: A lot of it is in Floridian heat heating.
29:10
James: It's, uh, on, on a geothermal system.
29:12
James: And it's mostly concealed.
29:15
James: It's all concealed.
29:16
James: It's in the floors.
29:17
James: now with some of the rules in the building code, we need fresh air returns.
29:22
James: and also these days, a lot of the times the the mechanical engineers will specify that they want in these big structures, they want, supplemental air conditioning, which are usually, ductless systems.
29:39
James: They're, these split units.
29:40
James: And the thing is that you actually see them and they're not super attractive.
29:46
James: Like it's not the sort of thing that you necessarily want everywhere.
29:49
James: in your structure.
29:50
James: So we've developed some solutions.
29:52
James: Again, not just similar to the background here, where we are, we are recessing additional, these, These these heating and air conditioning units that are usually up high on walls.
30:04
James: we're concealing them.
30:04
James: They're in walls.
30:05
James: And then we have carpentry solutions, meaning we are building out slot walls in front of these additional, heating requirements.
30:13
James: No ducks per se, but sometimes there's line feeds and so on.
30:17
James: So if the question comes up, are we going to see mechanical, systems or anything?
30:23
James: And the answer is no, but it takes a little bit of a little bit of design.
30:27
James: which leads me to my next thought.
30:28
James: the thing that I really love about timber frame, Nico is that, it can create modern spaces because it has the big over hangs.
30:36
James: Unobstructed space longer spans, and it can be super modern, but it still has a natural rustic quality to it.
30:44
James: The very authentic the feel of the Douglas Fir.
30:47
James: And we've experimented with different wood which we can get into Nico Lake, Douglas Fir versus pine versus other woods.
30:55
James: the thing, I just wanna put it out there, the thing that I like, working with Nico Fond as our structural engineer is that we can take designs and the sky's the limit.
31:04
James: Like if we wanna do something that's modern cantilevered over the lake, it's pretty exciting.
31:10
James: Like we can do work that's a little edgier because Nico is invested, he's quite, strong in structural engineering, timber, steel and so on.
31:20
James: So sometimes there's a hybrid solutions that we're still getting the, look but be beneath it all.
31:26
James: There's really sound.
31:28
James: structural engineering and to the point on.
31:31
James: these projects when I'm adding even an inch of concrete topping, Nico is insisting that we're going back doing calculations, making sure that there isn't too much deflection loads.
31:45
James: so it's, quite a thorough process, and that's one thing I like, I think is great working with, Nico from Bridgewood Engineering.
31:52
James: Now, Nico, I just wanted to dispel some, uh, some misconceptions that might be out there before we go on.
31:58
James: So some of the timber frame naysayers out there, they're throwing out some, ideas or comments.
32:04
James: And what it comes down to is this, at the end of things like the owner, the homeowner should.
32:09
James: Build what they're interested in building and, and what they feel strongly about.
32:13
James: is timber frame, too, does it add too much cost to a project?
32:16
James: I would say, no, because, we can build, we can use timber in degrees and other wood products.
32:23
James: And the important thing though is to work with an architect and an engineer that are experienced in timber frame right off the bat.
32:32
James: So a lot of people think that they design in timber, but I assure you, even if you've designed in, timber, if you're not doing it regularly, you're not benefiting from what's happening out in the field.
32:42
James: So as I went through, I worked with, an actual timber framer and did physical construction myself.
32:49
James: so the reason I bring that up is that by seeing the materials and knowing how heavy it is and what the spans are.
32:57
James: A lot of people can build, but can you build elegantly?
32:59
James: Can you build with the right amount of timber for your project?
33:02
James: And can you make it work?
33:03
James: So my suggestion is that right off the bat, work with people that have the experience, work with actual timber framers so that You can benefit from what they've seen and done on previous projects.
33:16
James: There's a real Nico, would you agree?
33:17
James: There's a bit of a culture to, to timber framing
33:20
Nico: For sure.
33:20
Nico: Yeah.
33:21
Nico: Yeah.
33:21
Nico: No, it's an art, right?
33:22
Nico: Like you.
33:23
Nico: want to know what you're doing when you use timbers because if it's not done properly, well, first of all, it's gonna cost you a fortune and then, it's not not gonna look good.
33:32
Nico: It's not gonna age well.
33:33
Nico: Like the joinery might separate the timbers.
33:36
Nico: It's a living material, so you want to make sure you work with it properly.
33:39
Nico: If not, timbers can twist, A lot of things can go wrong if you
33:43
Speaker: don't do it properly with like the, the right people.
33:45
James: So, Nico, if we have, individuals out there that, are interested in the timber frame.
33:50
James: Would you say, like on a new project, would you say that they would speak with, someone like, uh, uh, you and myself early on, or can they throw this together?
33:58
James: Like after they're all framed up with stick frame and drywall, acres of drywall, can they just throw the, can they add the timber on later and still get the same look, or should they integrate early on with, with, with a, a timber team?
34:12
Nico: Yeah.
34:13
Nico: No, the best is really to have it to bring us.
34:15
Nico: Early on, like the sooner you think about the timbers, the better.
34:19
Nico: Like usually you almost want to design the house around, like if it's a full timber frame, like you want to design the house around the timbers.
34:26
James and Nico Mar 20_26: Even
34:26
Nico: Even if it's just, if there are a few decorative timbers you want to add, it's still way better to add than before.
34:31
Nico: First of all, the engineer will need to know the extra loading when he designs the house.
34:36
Nico: So, the builder will need to know the extra blockings and everything.
34:40
Nico: So it's really not a good idea to add, like, once the house is done is, oh, let me add some timbers.
34:46
Nico: It's possible like, but first of all, it's gonna cost you more money to do it that way.
34:50
Nico: Much more work.
34:51
Nico: so yeah, way better to do it ahead of time at the design process to us And
34:56
Speaker: at the really beginning.
34:57
James: there's more flexibility early on, isn't there?
35:00
Speaker: Exactly.
35:01
Speaker: Yeah.
35:01
Speaker: like I said, like you can design around
35:03
Nico: the timbers, much easier.
35:04
James: So to, just to let, viewers know like how it worked for us on, well, let's use Chand Lake as an example.
35:10
James: the whole process is it's an enriched process for the right client.
35:15
James: And by this I mean with the tools now and with the software and with the way that we work, the owner can actually be part of the design process.
35:23
James: What I do is I sit down with the owner and we're actually building in 3D modeling and we're on a Zoom call.
35:30
James: or in person, and I'm taking instruction on the exact structure, make it longer, make it wider, turn the living, the kitchen towards the morning sunlight, turn the a walk out to the lake to overlook the beautiful evening, sunset, and so on.
35:47
James: I'm working in software that includes the timber frame for the purpose of, design intent, so that there's flexibility and then we can get something that's really specific.
35:59
James: The difference between this and just going to timber frame company is the timber frame Companies tend to have a lot of more standard, design solutions, which can be great in some applications, but the clients that I have are typically looking for something that's really unique, a little more iconic, relating more to unusual, very interesting sites.
36:20
James: I end up with a more custom solution.
36:22
James: And the great thing about working with you, Niko, is that you take it then and you're bringing it into your own software, right away.
36:29
James: And it is precise.
36:30
James: Like, I like to think that I'm precise with design and my thinking about how to develop client's project, but then you take it and you're making it work engineering wise, great detailing.
36:43
James: you're, just to be clear, Nico, you have equipment to, to fabricate, to, to to carry off our, my clients beautiful designs.
36:53
James: You're gonna be able to do it.
36:54
James: And because we're both working in a similar way, Nico, there is the opportunity to develop our designs and this is how we get the big overhangs at the Bay Quinty that has giant exterior roof overhangs.
37:08
James: The entire floor is overhanging, the first floor with stone below and pure timber frame above.
37:14
James: So that's the thing that I like, that's the way that I like to work.
37:16
James: Nico, you know, you're a structural engineer, but you're a pretty creative person.
37:21
James: Like I gotta admit, like you're one of the most, creative, engineers that I've worked with.
37:26
James: if, if not the most, just tell me just on a personal level, like what is the most exciting thing or what sort of projects do you get excited about?
37:33
James: Like what would you love to be your next project?
37:35
Nico: like,
37:36
Speaker: yeah, like you said, like big overhangs.
37:38
Speaker: Like, it's fun.
37:38
Speaker: It can get repetitive sometimes engineering, if you always do the same type of project.
37:43
Speaker: but if there is like challenges, like you push us to do, that's, that's a fun part where like you, you push yourself to find solutions that looks good, that are economical, that will be strong and durable.
37:54
Speaker: so that's a fun part.
37:55
Speaker: for new project, like we want to get into, mass timbers.
37:59
Speaker: we haven't done too many of those yet, like commercial project and stuff like that, and it's, it's really the same craft at the end of the day.
38:06
Speaker: So that's one thing we are looking to get into.
38:09
Speaker: but still, yeah, we, what we love is, is those big timber of frame.
38:13
Speaker: Like, we've done some very wide, like 50 feet wide, open space gazebo and where we had to, come up with like some, some solutions where like large overhangs are, are challenging, but they're, but they're fun to do.
38:27
James: you can get
38:28
Nico: it done for us.
38:29
Nico: anything.
38:29
Nico: Yeah.
38:30
James: Nico, I'm glad that you brought up the mass timbers, it is sort of at the forefront of timber design right now.
38:34
James: And, what mass timbers, just for our audience, they're, a way of building where we're laminating, pieces of solid timber.
38:42
James: So we end up with solid timber panels.
38:44
James: The advantage is that a lot of this is all done offsite and then you're building in panels in, so instead of building as a frame, and just coincidentally, I have Nico working on a, on a private project, just a, interesting project for myself, which is a residence and studios that are basically fairly modern and boxy, but timber built with.
39:10
James: Flat timbers and separated by glass and, and breezeways.
39:16
James: So this was a really, you know, this was a really interesting project and we had different people in involved.
39:21
James: We, in case viewers don't know our, our own son, my, my wife and, and ourself, he's an engineering student at, at Waterloo.
39:27
James: He was really instrumental in talking about overall ideas, with Nico and, and myself, and bringing more modeling and new thinking into the process.
39:39
James: And, I, I'm hoping Nico, that, with, with the, the mass timbers, the CLT, we have some current upcoming projects that are leaning a little bit more on, like, a little more, maybe more purely modern still natural materials.
39:56
James: Still cottagey, but a little, they're, they're calling it the Scandinavian modern.
40:00
James: It's really
40:00
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
40:01
James: It's been around like our architects like, VAR Alto and other like.
40:05
James: European architects have done this in the past, but it's really coming back and I'm hoping that we can, get, into those sorts of projects because Nico, not only are we we're designing, we're doing the structural engineering, or I'm designing, you're doing structural engineering, but we can be more resourceful with the sourcing and the supply of materials and material packages too.
40:26
James: isn't that right, Nico?
40:28
James and Nico Mar 20_26: Yeah.
40:29
Speaker: That's great.
40:29
Speaker: Like With mass timber, like you said, like the advantage is as with a timber frame where everything is pre-cut, with a mass timber those CRT walls, they will be also, everything is pre-cut in the factory.
40:40
Speaker: So you have great quality control and then you arrive on site and it's very easy to put together.
40:46
Speaker: So, much faster build, better.
40:48
Speaker: Yeah, you have a great quality product with a very accurate tool, so
40:52
Nico: very little mistakes can be done on
40:55
James: Nico, thank you so much for an informative, video.
40:58
James: is it safe to assume like the clients that I bring your way, do they bring a little bit of excitement back into timber structural engineering?
41:05
James: Like the, the the missing excitement?
41:06
James: Is it coming back?
41:08
Speaker: That's why we love working with architects IQ because, yeah, it challenges Like you said, like your project are, out of the box.
41:15
Speaker: Like it's not a typical project you will see out there.
41:17
Speaker: So it's it's fun.
41:18
Speaker: every time.
41:19
Speaker: It's not something we have ever done, so it pushes up to be better and to think at better solution.
41:24
Speaker: And nowadays we have all those technology.
41:27
Speaker: We have like those very high tech softwares to do structural engineering.
41:31
Speaker: We have those CNC machines, so we have all the
41:33
Nico: We just need the projects.
41:35
James: Thank you so much, Nico.
41:36
James: That's a wonderful, talk, call to action for the viewers out there.
41:39
James: Hope you enjoy this episode.
41:41
James: Nico is one of the best out there.
41:43
James: I encourage you to check out our website and Nicos as well.
41:46
James: Lakeside architecture.ca.
41:48
James: Lakeside construction management.ca.
41:50
James: Nicos, I don't remember yours.
41:52
James: what's your website there?
41:53
Speaker: bridgewood
41:54
James: services.com.
41:55
James: Okay, great.
41:56
James: feel free to give us a call.
41:58
James: I'm going to be at the, cottage, life Show, this, upcoming weeks.
42:02
James: I'm not sure whether I'll be a guest speaker at this particular show, but, a lot of times that I am.
42:07
James: But come visit us, at the booth there.
42:10
James: Also, feel free to give us a call.
42:12
James: Maybe I can set up a little meeting like this, Nico and myself, both of us, or either of us, we can do a quick little demonstration for you if you're gonna jump into a fantastic timber frame project.
42:22
James: Do not be misled.
42:23
James: We have it all for you.
42:25
James: We'll show you the projects, we'll show you the numbers, you know where you're gonna get into.
42:28
James: Timber frame project versus one that has more in it, two different styles.
42:32
James: You're gonna love one of them.
42:33
James: You're gonna love Nico, and I really look forward to speaking with y'all.
42:36
James: Thanks so much.
42:37
James: Thanks, Nico.
42:38
Speaker: Thank you so much, Jim.
42:39
Speaker: Thank you everyone.
42:40
James: we'll see you on the site.