Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / Let's Talk with Carl Lee: NFL Draft Reflections: Then and Now

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Let's Talk with Carl Lee: NFL Draft Reflections: Then and Now · WCHS Network Podcasts

0:01
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. By sign it's mine gotta
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show everybody is my time here. You gotta work, cry shin another mind
0:19
from sacka dog day line, don't tell you gotta burk. Let the conversation
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begin. This is Let's Talk with your host carl Lee. Hello, ladies
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and gentlemen, This is carl Lee and I'm with Let's Talk with carl Lee.
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And I'm here today with my co host. It's just me and him,
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and I just want to I want to give I want to give make
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sure I give a little bit of props to Hollis. He just got appointed
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to the fifty seventh Delicate District. Yeah, which is up in is in
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the Charleston area, Southwestern Park, right Charleston, South Charleston, dunbar.
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Okay, tell me tell me a little bit about before we even get into
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any any anything else, give me a little bit of background about kind of
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what you do, how you do it? You know what, what what
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does all that entail? So so because I don't know, and there may
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be enough people out there that that may not know. Also, what are
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some of the things that in that position you would actually have to do?
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What falls under your authority and all that kind of stuff. Well, being
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a House member, like I said, you were in the West Virginia delegate
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excuse me, Wes West Virginia legislator. So you have the House of Delegates
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and you have the senators. You have a hundred senators. You had about
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thirty excuse me messing up. You got about one hundred delegates and thirty senators.
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So far as what we do, the short and skinny of what we
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draft bills, we vote on bills. You have three bills. You have
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three bills. You brought three bills yourself. Yeah, I brought a couple.
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I brought a couple more that it. You know, sometimes you draft
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a building don't get taken up. I was co sponsored on a you know,
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the creating the equitable right or a spongement. I had a couple other
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ones that I uh, you know, co sponsored and everything like that,
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and even have what I made amendment to. So, like I said,
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it's just the process of you know, helping our state create laws. Hopefully
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it's gonna be for the betterment of you know, West Virginians. Is there
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is there one that you could kind of talk about that you think is like
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is something that you think is important. Is there is that something that you
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can you can say and talk about just a little bit to well the one
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like I said, it's the uh, I forget the exact house built number,
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but it's creating the equitable right to expungement. So the short and skinny
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of it is that when you get arrested, or if somebody gets arrested,
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normally they'll have a rap sheet, right, they'll have a criminal background that
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states all of their arrests. A lot of times what happened is that it
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just states the time that you had these interactions with law enforcement. It doesn't
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necessarily distinguish whether you've been like was discharge dismissed, was just convicted? You
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know it? Yeah, just a list. So what this law does is
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that it allows this person to get those charges which were either dismissed or just
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charged and never convicted on off the record. So that doesn't show up on
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a background check because it can become a bit discriminatory. Like I said,
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if I'm looking at a rap sheet, you got and I'm just you got
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fifty charges and arrests, I don't know which ones with So a lot of
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times, whether it's judges, prosecutors or whoever. They just looking at it.
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She's like, man, you had all these interactions law I'm wrong.
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Yeah, So so I can speak on that. You know, Like I
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said, this being my freshman year as a delegate, I try to stay
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in my lane. You know, I did a lot of criminal justice stuff.
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So that's kind of where I just stuck to. Okay, I find
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it, I find it interesting. But again I'll go back to you know,
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meeting you in at West Virginia State, and it was it was it
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was always kind of clear that you were going to be into something, you
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know what I'm saying, Like you you had, you know, one you
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have, you have that demeanor that comes with you that fit you as a
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quarterback obviously as as as a guy who's going to be a leader. And
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then it just kind of and then the way you approached your academics and those
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kinds of things, it just seemed like, you know, while you played
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sports, it wasn't that wasn't necessarily your go to. Your go to was
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the academic side, and and and clearly it shows. So I just wanted
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to give you those problems. I appreciate it. So we got we're gonna
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talk a little bit about the draft. But I think one of the one
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of the interesting things that because me and me and Coop were talking about it
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a little bit earlier and we discussed a couple of different things I was trying
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to get I was trying to get a couple of folks from from Marshall to
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to try to get on the show today because there was some possibility of some
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guys getting drafted and maybe even potentially free agents, and and what I wanted,
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I was hoping we would be able to do was to try to get
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it feel, try to get a feel from what do they feel like now,
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like right in this moment, now you know you're about a week out,
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what are you thinking, what are you doing? Are you working out?
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What's all these kinds of things. Unfortunately, they couldn't do it.
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So I just figured that we would kind of go back to and again,
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I'm not sure, and I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out there as as
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cautionary that it it how things how players think now, how they feel now
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might be different. But we were gonna talk more about you had some questions
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for me about what it was for me and how it was and those types
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of things. So I'm gonna I'm gonna turn it over to you and gotta
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lead that you kind of lead the show for the day. Well, okay,
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so starting, I guess my first question is that starting in your senior
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year, was it pretty apparent that you were headed to the NFL or was
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it you still have stuff to prove during that senior season in order to even
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be considered. I wasn't sure. I had had some some scouts come,
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and scouts can come. They have areas that they gotta go and see,
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and if there's a player, if there's a name that's there, they want
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to go see them. May watch them practice. They don't. They didn't
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really like work you out or anything like that, but they just kind of
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watched your practice. Said that they were there. And they're not specifically to
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a team. They're a regional scout, so you know they're scouting for different
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teams. So were they, I mean, were they coming to see you
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specifically or just come to see like a collection of players. It's usual collection.
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It was usually a collection of players, fortunately or unfortunately for the most
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part, it would probably be it was most of the time it was me.
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So you were only one draft yea out of the Yes, out of
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that class. Yeah. Okay. So like going into that season and when
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we're actually start talking about playing knowing that NFL was your goal, knowing that
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you have these scouts around, did that add any pressure to your performance during
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that season? Yes, it did, but it was it was more more
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than the pressure. It was motivation to put in more work. Okay,
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because all of a sudden, now you know, even if even if that
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guy's a regional scout, he's gonna go back and say something to to whatever
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region he's in. We think this guy's okay, we think he's a possibility.
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Whatever that case may be. Whatever he takes away is gonna that that's
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gonna lead to somebody else coming back or somebody not coming. So to have
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that happen, it changed, It changed the whole. It was an uptick
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in the in the training, the workout, the thought process, every game
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that you were gonna play in that senior year, all of those kind of
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things. You were thinking, Man, I gotta have a great senior year
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now. So what I mean, just with that, even if it's not
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you know, outwardly, just with that internal pressure, did that like positively
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or negatively affect your play on the field, it's the actual play. It
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was. It was positive to for me, it was positive, but I
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know what, I know where you're heading on that. It it made me
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think every game, like, man, you know you can't give you know,
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you can't give up nothing. You know, you go for some people
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that could your pressure ways and that it would mess them up. I ain't.
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I kind of for me, I'm a you know, I was a
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little crazier, you know, because again I was so wrapped up into football
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like it was everything. Man, So I kind of liked the idea of
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of having that pressure to make me want to play even harder, you know,
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because you know we weren't winning, but I was still gonna. I
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mean, I knew I had to play hard. My dad was not gonna
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let me, you know, not play hard and be the best player I
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could be being. And you were safety at that time, yes, so
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I be in a safety and if you're not winning, you you know,
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you don't have a great defense. You kind of got it that guy,
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yeah, because you don't really have a choice. You don't have a choice
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because there's gonna be more. And again, yes, I led the tackle
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I let this in tackles. You let it in three or the four years
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I was there. Wow, you let in tackle? Wow. Yeah.
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And and again you know, and you know you it just it just was
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what it was and how that was, you know, And so I knew
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I was gonna make plays. So now you know, my dad was in
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the mindset of because again we shared that same dream, you know. So
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you know, after the game, but the next day after the game,
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we're at the breakfast table and he's talking about this particular tackle, you need
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to make this tackle a little bit. This was in college. Yeah,
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this was in college. He like, he didn't missed He missed one game
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in college that was Mississippi State because he couldn't he couldn't find anybody to drive
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down and back and he wasn't sure he could drive all the way down and
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come back. So I'm meeting him at the breakfast table the day after the
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game. I'm at the breakfast after the game, and were talking about a
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couple of plays, okay. And the good thing about that, though,
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was because it never because I'm thinking, man, I made an interception,
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I got a fumble, or I made this big hit or whatever, and
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I'm thinking I'm golden. He's looking at just the plays that were not the
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right place. Yeah, And I think that mindset works, particularly like I
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said, if you have higher aspirations, Because if you have higher aspirations and
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you have the work ethic to like go with that, that those conversations work
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because you're striving almost to do things perfect right. You're striving almost not necessarily
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for perfection and totality, but to do that tackle perfect but to do these
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particular tasks perfectly. So going back to your work ethic, like what outside
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of what you were doing with the team, particularly during that season year,
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what was the work ethic off the field, like by yourself? I would
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and again prior to the season, Man, I want to talk about in
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season. I talk about off season, the month just in season, like
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when we're you know, like you you don't do anything quote, I wouldn't
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do anything I quote extra. But you know, weights was a new thing
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and and it was new to me, and so you know, I ate
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them up, you know, I mean cause again I get to Marshall,
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I leave high school at fifty five, I get to Marshall sixty four,
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and I'm I got like a little plastic weight set and now I'm I'm at
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Marshall and they just getting weights. And anytime that I could get in there
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and do some work, I'm doing work. Anytime that I could do running,
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I could do like you know, you got conditioning, I'm not I'm
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not gonna be last. I'm not gonna be you know, I'm the guy
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that's trying to get I'm trying to get everything out of that practice. Okay,
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that's see, that's what I want. I wanted every thing out of
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that practice because you don't really have time to do anything really extra because you
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know, as soon as practice is over, you go eat, got your
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meetings, and by the time you got to study all in the bedchat.
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Yeah, because I think that's one thing that struck me about like a Deon
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Sanders, and I say, it's even about a Randy Moss where if you
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hear them talk specifically just about practice, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Right,
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you hear these guys talk just I'm not talking about what they do in
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the off season or what they're doing by themselves. I'm talking about specific practice.
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It struck me even like a guy like Deon Sandy, I'm thinking like
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all these guys are just uber talented. They're not really like going hard in
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practice. But these guys are going hard in practice. And I think that's
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one of those things that you know, could be overlooked by some athletes who
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don't understand how important practice is. I think I think it's and you know,
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and you're exactly right. And the person that that's that hurts the most
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is that talented kid. It hurts them. It hurts them the most because
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they feel like you know, or you can't. You can take the approach.
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I'm the best player on the team, one of the best players on
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the team. I can just kind of go through practice, you know,
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and do what I do, score two three touchdowns in the game, you
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know, and and life is fine. No, No, there's no place,
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there's no time, there's no place that you cannot give your all.
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I mean, I'm telling you, if you go, if you were going
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to go against me in seven on seven in Minnesota, right like we like
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we ain't gonna like each other, you know what I'm saying. If you,
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if you, if you, if you and seven on seven and you
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and you run a slant route, and I'm and I'm coming down from a
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safety spot. But I'm hitting you, yeah see, and I'm you know,
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I may try to help you up. You may you may not want
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me to help you up, you mad rob, But I'm I got somewhere
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I'm trying to go and this and this was the same thing you were doing
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in Marshall. Yeah, so look, okay. So to add on to
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that, because I think when we look at a guy like for example,
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Alan Iverson, right, and he had well it's just practice, da da
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d D. But I think even him probably looking back at his own career,
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if you hear any of his interviews, he would probably can see that.
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I believe if he would have been like a hard work, he probably
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would have been the greatest in the NBA player of all time his size and
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skill set. So with you having that mentality at Marshall, particularly during that
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scene, you're going hard in practice with guys who aren't necessarily going where you're
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going. As far as the NFL concern, did that create any animosity between
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you and your teammates? I mean I had dudes laughing at me and the
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cafeteria like sitting there, sitting there specifically, I remember this, like guys
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are sitting that and and because I had, because I'm the dude who's gonna
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say it like I'm gonna I'm going to the NFL. I'm here for the
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NFL. Bro, this is Marshall, you know, eighty eighty one,
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eighty two, and not the Marshal. We know that, not the Marshal
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we know now. At that point, I don't know if we had if
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there was anybody post plane crash had gone. I don't you know, somebody
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had said I was the first. I don't know if that's a fact,
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but I don't I don't know anybody who had gotten drafted. And at the
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point you there, there's not a big legacy of no, no, there's
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no, no, there's no And the group that I came in with,
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which was a Sunny Randall group, and Bob Prout was there, we didn't
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have nobody, you know, we didn't We hadn't had anybody in of our
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seniors when we were fresh. I ain't none of our seniors even get a
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glimpse or any of that. I think there was a couple of guys that
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there was some mumbling around, like a dude named Mike Natally, big dude,
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but but nothing, nothing came so far as your teammates like, how
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was that I was crazy? They thought they thought it was crazy, like
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they you know, like it was like and you you at Marshall, you
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know we ain't winning no games. And and and I think the problem is
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is with people is that they think that winning winning winning. I guess maybe
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winning helps helps, but it can't. But it don't hurt you either,
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No, because it depends on nothing. But it depends on you. It
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depends on you. It depends on you. You can let it hurt you.
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You can let it. And and if you if you go down to
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that's that sounds bad, but I'm gonna leave it there. If you go
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down to the level of where that team is, no doubt, no doubt
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you not coming out of there. But but I think I think, like
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I said, and we've talked about this before, I think there's like elite
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talent. I would say, a random deon Sanders right Lee Town. But
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then there's elite work ethic. And you probably are example of someone who had
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elite work ethic. So it may have not mattered where you've gone. You
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particularly, you could have maybe went to Fredmar or State. It made the
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path may have been a little longer, but I think you probably would have
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found your way to where you ultimately went. So And I guess the question
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I'm specifically asking is that if you're in practice, you have this mindset with
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a bunch of guys who don't necessarily have this mindset, you're going a thousand
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miles an hour in practice. I'm saying that those sort of competitions credit like
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man, Carl, calm down, like chill brou like what you doing?
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Yes, that that comes to you, you know, like you know,
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especially seven on seven, one on ones, tackle drills and stuff, and
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that's back when that's that's that go hit before you hitting in practice. And
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so I'm like to me, like, I'm fine with that, you know,
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let's let's hit, you know. And and god forbid if there's a
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scout there, you know what I'm saying. And I and and I had
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a buddy. His name is Gilbert or we call him I W. He
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was a running back and bright. He he wanted to be in the league
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as well. Every time the scout came and we did like tackling drills against
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the running backs, right, he was going with me, you know,
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and which was which was perfect for me because I know he was trying to
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get his look. I'm trying to get a look. You know, somebody
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got to win that, you know, And so that type of competition in
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the moment when there's a scout there, you know, and not saying he
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didn't go all the time, but but for sure because he turning it up,
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so basically everybody's trying to turn it, turn it. I automatically knew
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he was. He was going to go every time I got, every time
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I got up to make the tackle. And that was perfect for me because
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I was gonna there was no question. I'm gonna go as hard as I
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count I could go. So if somebody else was gonna be just kind of
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like just easing through practice, and I'm hitting them, bro, we we
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probably got an argument. We got a discussion at least at at at at
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dinner, you know, we bro, what's going on with you? Why
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are you acting like that in practice? Why are you doing that? Brouh?
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You know, My whole thing was like, look, I'm trying to
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get I'm trying to get to Sunday Man, and anybody descend the way,
20:32
anybody within reach. Bro, I got to hit you. It ain't personal.
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I mean, you know what I'm saying. It's it. It was
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just it was I looked at it as as great a friend as me and
20:47
you can be, but you can't be bigger than my dream. Yeah,
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and so you and you and and and again if you trying to come at
20:55
me and and to make a point for yourself. So okay, so let
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me ask this. So you know, during the senior year, you're you
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know, you don't have scouts comes, You're you're kind of what I think,
21:12
probably and maybe you might agree with me, you're on the cusp of
21:15
knowing something about to if you play good, you're gonna have a shot.
21:19
You're gonna have a legitimate shot. So during that senior and I'm just talking
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about specifically that senior season, did you have like an NFL moment? Did
21:30
you have AHA moment? Like, Okay, was there a game? Was
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there attack? Where was there a play that just stood out during that season?
21:42
Actually? Yes, but but it wasn't on the positive side. Okay,
21:49
go ahead, It wasn't on the positive side. I think it was.
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I think it was. I think it was Appy State. I hadn't
21:56
given up any touchdowns. We were in cover two ran a corner route.
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I didn't. I didn't get over you know, so I'm chasing it.
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If you don't know cover two, you play safety. You have half the
22:07
field, half the field, and the corner is helping you, but he's
22:11
gonna be underneath it. You got to be over the top of it.
22:14
And you know, and I'm I'm I'm still tackle oriented. In my head,
22:19
I'm looking for them to run the ball, so I end up getting
22:22
caught short. They they catch it, get a touchdown. Coach randall right,
22:30
he met me probably at the far hash mark and was cussing me the
22:34
whole way and and he told me, he said, he said, you
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blew it. You blew it. You blew your opportunity. That's it.
22:41
You ain't gonna go because he knew. Everybody knew, and so he used
22:47
that. And bro, I'm sitting on I'm sitting and I'm sitting there and
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I'm thinking, one play. I gave up one play and that's enough.
22:57
And and the reality of that is, I do think that there's some truth
23:02
to that. You know that you how bad is that play? You know?
23:07
But but but you know, everybody knows that that place cover too.
23:11
Everybody knows that that's a that you know, post corner, get your it's
23:15
it's possibility. But if you get peaking, yeah, yeah, and I
23:19
was a peaker, you know, and and so you know that bothered me,
23:26
and that I mean, it bothered me for for the rest of Let's
23:30
let's dig into that, because what I find interesting, and we're gonna move
23:34
this along. But what I find interesting is that you were able to respond
23:41
to that level of I mean, I guess some people would. I guess
23:45
nowadays just call it pure negativity or negative negative reinforcement, because I know for
23:49
some people that's not necessarily gonna work with them. What did he know that
23:55
was gonna work with you? And was it a situation in which you kind
23:59
of thrive off that it was? It was him that was that was just
24:03
that was just him. You know, you do something wrong. He's cussing
24:07
you out. You know, I mean, I get the cussing. I
24:10
guess what I'm saying is just like you blew your chance. I mean that's
24:11
kind of like, Wow, I send the mama relaxed coachs. I think,
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yeah, I mean I think that was a bit much. In hindsight,
24:19
I think that could have been a bit much. But he knew,
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he knew how to trigger me. He knew how to trigger me. He
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knew, he knew that it was going to be something that was going to
24:30
be relatable to me if nobody else. Me and him, okay, got
24:37
you know what I'm saying. He when when you're saying you blew it,
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you know that's it. You You ain't getting the shot. I'm like thinking,
24:48
one plane, m hm right. I even tapped out once and he
24:52
went crazy. You know, I tapped that one game, which is why
24:56
you never hit the helmet tap on the hell you just need to break and
25:03
brother, I never ever, ever, ever tapped out again. He cussed
25:11
me so bad. I'm over to getting ice so much shoulder, you know,
25:14
and putting ice down my back and all that kind of stuff. And
25:15
I'm like thinking, and he's just coming back there, like just cussing,
25:19
yelling, screaming at me and like, you know, you need to be
25:22
in the gay dad, And I'm like, I'm like, I'm dead,
25:27
you know. But it didn't matter. But for me, I kind of
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I needed I needed that. That's that's kind of what I needed. But
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but I think the biggest, the biggest thing that I think the point that
25:44
you're trying to get is is that negativity as harsh as it is, it's
25:52
not, it's nowhere close to that. Now, no coaches being that harsh
25:56
as as they do. If you can you can't, Yeah, yeah you
26:00
can't be You don't want to get yourself in trouble, but you but you
26:03
need to take that. You need to take that personal. And when I
26:08
say personal to your not personal to you as an individual, but personal to
26:14
you as a game. We'll hold right there and we'll take a quick break
26:17
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26:52
Now back to the conversation. All right, we're back off of a
26:56
quick break gun as Hollis's uh drill. So so we're at the point.
27:03
Okay, you had now just quickly, you pretty you had a pretty good
27:07
season that senior year, right, Okay, you remember your stat line?
27:12
No, I know that I only gave up one touchdown? Yeah, how
27:18
many you have pigs? Tackles anything like that, I don't remember. I
27:22
don't remember any of that, but I'm I did lead the team in tackles
27:26
that senior And as far as accolades, you made all conference, any all
27:32
American considerations. There was like a second team or something like that. Yeah,
27:36
but it was all americanation. So you had some accolades behind your name.
27:40
So you did something you know that might be a little unconventional. I
27:45
guess nowadays, maybe not so much then. But after that football season,
27:48
you decided to run track. So explain that decision again. Any and every
27:56
possible option that I could find to make me better, I needed to do
28:04
it. And one of the one of the things that you have to do,
28:10
as everybody knows, when you go to the combine. So I'm already
28:12
thinking combine, I'm already thinking coaches coming in working me out. You got
28:17
to run that forty and you know, football don't necessarily get you fast,
28:22
yeah, definitely. You know, adition may get your condition, but it
28:26
may not get you fast. And so my first thought was, Okay,
28:30
I'm gonna I'm gonna run track so that I can get faster, you know,
28:36
and not just that, but but in shape. And then when I
28:40
get the track, you know, the coach ends up having me running the
28:44
quarters, you know. And so that's the four hundred. Yeah, and
28:48
I'm like thinking that man, that man raise I call it. And you
28:52
know, and I wasn't winning, you know, I wasn't winning whether it
28:56
was the one hundred, two hundred a quarter, even though that's what you
29:00
ran. So when all events you ran the quarter, I ran the quarter
29:03
to two hundred and the hundred and then and I ran indoors as well,
29:08
and then we we ran the relays, okay, and and I didn't I
29:14
didn't, you know, I ran you know, I was like third and
29:17
fourth and some of those, you know, I competing, but I wasn't
29:21
winning, you know, because these dudes are just straight. Yeah, they
29:25
tried guys, you know. And so but for me being faster, being
29:32
quicker, being in shape, all of that, because I was like I
29:36
was like, coach, I don't, I can't. I can't do a
29:38
four hundred. And then as you know, I ended up My training was
29:44
all one hundred with all courts there. And I tell you what, like
29:47
I remember something I ran with you. There was there's no other way,
29:51
like if you're in the if you're an athlete, particularly at an elite high
29:53
school level, college level, get them quarters in because that that's gonna take
29:59
you there and and and it takes you there mentally as well. And that's
30:02
and that's that's the point that I really want to make is when you have
30:06
to run four when you when you're running four four hundreds with with with like
30:11
what minute and a half or something, So yeah, it's like a minute
30:15
ten I think, yeah, something like that on a on a as a
30:18
break, and then you run another one, and then you run another one
30:22
and then you run another one. Well, and I'm talking about the minute
30:25
ten is what you got to run the four hundred in. And then you
30:26
get like you got a little minimum break something like that. You you that's
30:34
shape, that's being in shape and and and and I'm telling you you'll be
30:40
shocked. I would make the case that there's very few young athletes today could
30:47
even do those four four. Yeah, I don't. I don't know,
30:49
like the two and then you're going right to the hundreds. That I mean,
30:56
it's it's a it's a it's a huge challenge, but I like,
31:02
I loved it. So okay, ran tracked to get prepared for the draft.
31:06
Now are you did you get invited to the compine? Do you have
31:08
a pro day? How was that process? I had? I had,
31:12
I had several. I had several. So you hit the regional scouts coming
31:17
in. In my senior year, I started getting the scouts from the team.
31:21
Some of the scouts from from the teams came in and then I ended
31:26
up going to Seattle. I only went to one to one combine and that
31:33
was in Seattle. Okay, So you didn't you didn't go to like the
31:36
big, the big Indianapolis combine, the big combine that all the players the
31:40
invite. Yeah, well all of them were invites, all of them.
31:44
You had to get an invite too. There were there were there were a
31:45
number, I don't know how many there are now, but there were enough
31:48
time. I just the main one, the primary combine I went to.
31:52
I went to see, you know, to the team's different workouts. No,
31:56
there was there was all teams that were still the same teams, you
32:00
know, there was still gonna be the same kind of teams that were gonna
32:02
It's not just Seattle, Okay, it was just held in Seattle. Okay,
32:07
So you went to a combine. I went to one of the combines
32:08
in so they had multiple, multiple ones, Okay. And still I don't
32:14
know, I don't know. I think they do the days, and I
32:17
could be wrong on that point. Usually what I know of when I think
32:21
in pro day, that's a pro day when they're coming to the school,
32:22
coming to the school, you know. And so I had I had probably
32:31
maybe three or four, three or four teams that had come and don't don't
32:39
I'm not gonna remember the names of the teams that came. I maybe had
32:43
like three or four teams that had came on to do a pro day and
32:46
have me work out. And this is an individually or so you had about
32:52
three four the prodays and then you had the combine in Seattle. And and
32:55
how did does anything you remember stand out specifically about those you know of trials,
33:02
if you will. The combine was and here what bothered me In the
33:10
combine, I ran first because I was number one. They went in your
33:15
numeric number and I wore number one at Marshall. So now I'm running first.
33:22
I'm from Marshall, and brother, like, there's all these dudes,
33:25
you know that, all these names of people who are going to be running
33:30
after me, And I'm thinking, and I got to run first. And
33:34
I ended up running a four to five, which was the slowest I had
33:38
run. I had run four fours for most of most of all the scouts
33:45
that had come in. I hadn't run a four or five anything for any
33:50
of the scouts had come in. End up running four to five. Now,
33:52
maybe that was just a stricter clock. Yeah, you know, whatever
33:58
the case may be, because you know, it can be different. Yeah,
34:00
but I mean even at that time were talking in the early eighties,
34:04
that was pretty yeah, it was. It was pretty good for it because
34:07
if you were running for forth back in that day, yeah, you you
34:09
you were, you were really yeah. And and so I did outside of
34:17
the running, you know, I did pretty decent at the combine. You
34:23
know, we did some different kind of stuff and again and and and an
34:25
interesting component to that too, is I'm playing They're talking about corner in the
34:31
league, and I'm I played safety. So even at this early stage there,
34:37
they're talking about corner right now. Yes, yes, that I was
34:39
going into the draft as a corner. Yeah, okay, nobody. Nobody
34:44
had looked at me as a safety. Okay. So and do you remember,
34:47
like like the ration now behind that, what would what were the reason?
34:52
Did you even ask? It was long? The corners were starting to
34:57
get taller. Yeah, like the mel Blunt, they were starting to get
35:00
taller and longer. And so I wasn't I wasn't like a Ronnie Lot built.
35:07
God, you know, I was thin. I was you know,
35:09
safety were like linebackers, and they and they hit like linebackers. So that
35:15
was that was their move. That was everybody because nobody saw me as a
35:21
safety. So so the standard for me now was just trying to fit into
35:29
that to that corner makeup and speed and all of those kinds of things.
35:35
You know, you have you know in the combine and you're doing the shuttles
35:38
and stuff like that, all those kind of stuff that's a footwork, that's
35:42
you know, that's showing whether or not you got the right proper footwork,
35:45
you can change direction and all that kind of stuff, which which was kind
35:50
of crazy for me that I ended up being okay in those because I did
35:54
play safety and that was my that's my name question, because I wouldn't say
36:00
I'm not gonna you know, it's not necessarily a dramatic shift per se,
36:06
but I think that if you're looking at it in its time capsule, Like
36:09
I said, safeties were like these hitters. They were linebackers who were coming
36:15
down because he was a run more run heavy oriented offenses during that time.
36:21
So to convert from a safety to a corner was a pretty it's pretty it's
36:27
a pretty major shift. So mentally, like what was going on with you
36:31
when you knew that, Hey, my safety days are over, I'm playing
36:35
corner. Well, it actually kind of worked for me in my mind because
36:40
now as a corner, I could be physical. I don't have no problem
36:45
running out. I ain't. I don't have no problem making no going up
36:49
making a solo tackle. You know, I ain't. I'm not gonna shock.
36:52
What about coverage that I didn't know? I didn't know. I didn't
36:54
know any of that. And and to be honest, if if we don't
37:00
go to bump and run. I'm not sure that my career stays where it
37:07
is, Okay. I think it allows you to be physical. Yes,
37:10
And because my first year I ended up playing I did play corner my first
37:15
year. My second year I ended up starting at safety for one year.
37:21
And you're talking about at the end in the NFL. And I clearly knew,
37:29
I clearly knew that it wasn't for me. I couldn't. I wasn't
37:34
mad enough to to to And I'm saying free safety, not even strong safety.
37:39
You know, but you you know, you've heard the story brother Peyton.
37:45
Peyton breaks up the middle man and and like brow, I'm looking at
37:49
him right, that ain't a match up. Yeah, I mean, because
37:51
you gotta you gotta got people. I think people gotta remember the eighties were
37:53
as much as we talk about the quarterbacks, the eighties was really about the
37:57
running backs. You're talking about the Earl Campbell, the Peytons, the Christian
38:00
of Koyers. I mean, it was just a you know, the Barrys,
38:04
Emty. It was just a bunch of like just elite. Derman Thomas
38:07
is just a bunch of elite running backs, even guys those second tier guys
38:10
were just Neil Anderson's you know, they were just really really good like linebackers.
38:17
Yeah, you know, and and again you had you had great quarterbacks.
38:23
You're all the great quarterbacks, all the Hall of Fame quarterbacks, severs
38:27
and receivers, all of them, tight ends everybody. I mean, it
38:30
was it was a It was a phenomenal group of players that came in in
38:36
that era, just in that window. So so getting back, so you
38:39
you're having your pro days, you're having your going to the combine in Seattle.
38:45
Now are you kind of are you just done with school at this time?
38:46
How does it are you still taking classes with that? No? I
38:51
shut, I shut. I ended up like shutting off all my classes.
38:55
Now you're back home, you're still on campus. I'm still on campus because
38:58
I just I was just I was just still on campus, staying in the
39:01
dorm because all the contact information, you know, was through Marshall. So
39:08
even though I'm only forty five minutes down the road, I just I was
39:12
just there. And I canceled all my classes that that final semester, you
39:17
know, because I didn't want anything to get in anything to get into the
39:22
in a way. Now, are you getting support from the athletic department,
39:25
from the football team, like during this draft part process, how how does
39:30
that work? Yes, I mean, I you know, I had I
39:34
had, I had by Prewitt there I had. You may not know this
39:38
name Waverley Brooks and Sonny and and and they're giving me, you know,
39:45
they're giving me this positive this positive feedback. And you know, Prewit said,
39:52
you know, prew It told me that I was gonna make it and
39:59
that I was gonna be good, you know. And and and I'm like
40:02
thinking because one of the coaches was talking about how different it's gonna be from
40:07
Marshall to to they, you know, and and I think Preud may have
40:14
took it as okay, but that's that that's more on the negative side.
40:17
You're giving him negative feedback. And so he ended up turning around and say,
40:22
no, you can, you know, don't worry about it. You're
40:22
gonna you're gonna make it, and you're gonna be good. And then Prude
40:25
spent some time in the league as well, Yeah, as a player,
40:28
you know, so he and I think he just I think he I think
40:31
Prude is just that positive. He's gonna inspire you to be the best that
40:37
you can be. Yeah, like a Yin and a Yane. Yeah,
40:39
it was just a little bit because like some people could again because you know
40:43
I'm talking, you know, I've got scouts and stuff coming, and you
40:46
know, then some teams brought in coaches to to come in and talk to
40:52
you and work it out a little bit, all that kind of stuff.
40:55
So when when you start talking about team folks showing up, now you're talking.
41:01
Now you're talking talking to something serious. All right, So you've put
41:06
it in all this work. You you played four seasons at Marshall. Now
41:09
it's draft day. Where were you at? What was going through your head?
41:15
Where'd you get drafted? Kind of walk us through that day. I
41:20
had an apartment on the West end of Huntington, and me and me and
41:25
Donna, my wife. Now we were staying off campus. It was down
41:32
on the West End, and and I was like, look, I need
41:36
to be by myself, cause okay, I need to get around mom.
41:39
No, no, no, no. I stayed in Huntington, you know,
41:44
I stayed in Huntington and and stayed in you know, just this little
41:47
apartment by myself. And because I didn't because my thing was because you didn't
41:53
know whether you were gonna get drafted. But hold up, and before we
41:57
said that, did you hire an agent at this point? No, so
42:00
you didn't have an age nothing. Okay, go ahead, which that'll be
42:01
an interesting start too. So I don't know, you know, I had
42:07
heard, you know, somewhere between three and five possibly if if yeah,
42:15
that depending on the run of the corners. You know, if there's a
42:21
run on the corners, then there everybody. Once somebody gets one, they're
42:24
gonna everybody gonna jump and start trying to get the best ones that's on the
42:30
board. Okay, not saying that I was one of the best ones on
42:32
the board, but just saying, so that could make it, that could
42:36
be a higher pick. Well, so I'm and it was, you know,
42:40
it was a it was two days, you know, it was that.
42:44
I think that might have been when they first split it up. So,
42:46
man, I'm sitting there and now it's all day. I'm sitting there
42:51
and I'm you know, you're watching TV or no, listening to the radio.
42:54
No, no, no, I'm waiting on the phone to ring.
42:58
Oh, so you ain't doing nothing. I'm sitting I'm sitting at the crib
43:01
and I'm just waiting on the phone to ring. About three calls. Call
43:07
No, no, it wasn't one. I wasn't No, it's not online
43:13
back in the day. Dang. Yeah. So I'm just sitting there waiting
43:16
on a call, you know, I'm just waiting on the call, and
43:22
and I got like three calls from people like you heard anything, Bro,
43:25
No, don't call me, call me, leave me, leave me be
43:30
I promise you if I get a call, you gonna know. So,
43:36
man, I'm sitting there and I'm sitting there, and I'm sitting there and
43:42
and it was like, not this is not exactly the right kind of time,
43:45
but it's like just a little bit before five, and that's the last
43:51
round, you know. That's that's that's happening. So I'm thinking, all
43:54
right, you know, I ain't go today. You know. Next thing,
44:00
I know, phone rings, and since I speak to car Lee and
44:07
I said speaking and he said, this is uh, this is Jeff Diamond
44:12
from the Minnesota Vikings. Could you hold it and our general manager will be
44:15
on the line. And bro, like, I'm like, I'm like falling
44:20
out, you know what I'm saying, Like, I'm like, you know,
44:22
trying to be cool, trying to be cool on the phone, but
44:27
bro, everything inside of my body was jumping out, Like I was like,
44:30
man, this cannot this cannot be happening. After all this, all
44:36
this work, this can't be happening, you know, even though I wanted
44:39
it, even though people said, Okay, you're gonna have a shot at
44:43
it. To get the call, but to get the call was like,
44:50
I'm waiting on I'm waiting on this dude to get back on the phone.
44:52
Mike Lee gets back on the phone. He says, congratulations, the Vikings
44:55
picked you. You know, we put you in the sixth round or seventh
44:59
round, sixth our sixth pick, so you were seventh round six six pin
45:02
because they didn't have Yeah, they didn't have uh, they didn't have a
45:06
six pick. And again because again some of the conversations had been about talking
45:10
about a little bit earlier. But you know, I didn't I didn't really
45:15
care as as as long as I went okay and so and and and b.
45:21
I like I said, I was miserable. I was miserable because I'm
45:23
thinking we at the end of the day, man, and that and so
45:27
that was their last pick for the That was the last not I don't know
45:29
if it was the last pick of the draft that day, but it was
45:31
the Vikings last pick of that day. And so, you know, they
45:37
gave me the information about when we'd be there, blah blah blah blah,
45:38
and they say, we're be in contact. And then I hung up the
45:43
phone and man, I couldn't I couldn't wait to get back to campus,
45:49
you know. I couldn't wait to get on campus, you know, because
45:52
and brou from that from that day the following day, I'm working, I'm
46:02
working, I'm I'm putting time in, you know, I'm putting tom in,
46:07
you know, because you know this. You can't get that call and
46:13
sit home. What was your father's reaction? Oh, he was like everybody
46:20
was like, I mean because it was like it's like it was incredible.
46:22
It was like unbelievable that this is actually happening. And the crazy thing about
46:29
that piece of it we made it ain't nobody made the team or nothing.
46:37
Yeah, you just you got drafted and and you get caught. Yeah,
46:42
they forget like you just think like you there, if you if you were
46:45
Randy Mosson, you were first round pick, you you as you start you
46:51
start talking about down in the seventh round, sixth you know, sixth pick,
46:55
seventh round, bride, you gotta make the team. You and not
47:00
only that, you gotta find a spot to make the team on that that
47:04
could be special teams or whatever. That's true. You know, I wasn't
47:07
a special teams guy. You know, I did punk cover, you know
47:12
that type of stuff. But kick off, yep, bro, they threw
47:15
me on kickoff. So I mean, but but but how was your father's
47:17
reaction? Oh he was bright, he was, I mean, it was
47:21
it was crazy, like I don't even know. I don't and it's a
47:27
shame because I can't even I don't even know he if he had, if
47:30
he said anything to me specifically about like congratulations or anything like that. I
47:38
think he was more like me, like we got like we've done it.
47:44
It's like we've done it. Now we got to get to work. We
47:45
got to get to work. Okay. You know, I don't think he
47:49
was like I would have liked have thought, like I knew, you know,
47:54
but I was like super exciting. Yeah, I'm sure he was.
47:59
But he wasn't gonna give it away, Okay, got you. He wasn't
48:01
gonna give that away. Now what about you know, the coaching staff and
48:06
that Marshall teammates people around. How was that? How was I would say
48:09
that that next couple of days to a week because now it's in the papers,
48:14
it's on the news, and now everything's out and everything you've been broadcasting
48:17
and telling people you're gonna do. You did it. I'm almost done,
48:22
but you did it. And this you got drafted. I got drafted,
48:25
I got you made it there. Now when you stay there is a difference.
48:29
That's a different story. Yeah, I think campus was kind of like,
48:34
you know, all my guys were like, I think, totally shocked.
48:37
And again they're giving me, you know, they're giving you the pad
48:38
on the back and all that kind of stuff. That and and I know
48:40
a lot of them it was didn't didn't little hate. Yeah, there was
48:45
some hate a little home, but you know, that is what it comes.
48:49
That comes with the territory. And actually, and I won't say the
48:52
name, but I know there was one brother for a fact that was that
48:55
was that was straight hated. You know, he was straight hate even when
48:59
the commonsation was talking about getting drafted and and and it was that a trip
49:04
just kind of seeing that people just really didn't believe you was gonna make it
49:08
like it was, and then you pop up poof and you I can't you
49:13
know what, oddly enough for the people who like, let's just say it
49:17
was you, people who I was really friends with, who I know,
49:22
I can't. I can't blame you for questioning or doubting that peace fair.
49:29
You know what I'm saying. I can't. I can't be mad at you.
49:30
I can't end my friendship with you because you can't see me being you
49:37
play with me, you know what I'm saying. So you you ain't see
49:40
No, you ain't see me like I completely playing on Sunday. Okay,
49:44
you know what I'm saying. Now, the folks, a couple of people
49:49
personally I know was I mean, so, the first thing is he ain't
49:54
getting drafted. Now. The second thing is he ain't gonna make the team.
49:59
You know what I'm say saying. So you you got that one person
50:01
who's always going to put a negative, a negative spin on it something you
50:07
He can't celebrate. He can't celebrate at any point because he already know.
50:12
Okay, so he got drafted. You know it's seveth rown. He ain't
50:15
gonna make it, you know, seth round or the whole thing. There's
50:19
always that guy and so you know having that, you know, but again
50:23
for me, I'm all now, I'm all turned, I'm turned into working
50:29
out. So you so so okay. So at that point, you get
50:31
drafted, so your mind immediately is switching to like, okay, now I
50:35
gotta make the squad. You so you understood that from the game. This
50:38
wasn't automatic, like you just get to check get t seen me. I
50:42
was excited. I was super excited about the idea of being drafted and and
50:46
I'm going to you know, but I knew I wasn't done. Okay,
50:53
souse, At this point, are you getting like did you hire? Are
50:58
you getting it directly with the tan? Do you hire like a trainer?
51:02
Like how are you just I'm just doing on my own, you know,
51:07
because there really wasn't trainers back then. You know, weights were new,
51:12
you know, it was still kind of a new thing. So I spent
51:15
most of my time, you know, running physically being trying to get in
51:21
shape. So you went, so draft is in April, I would imagine
51:23
April then, yes, April, Mark, Yeah, and when do you
51:25
first have to report, we had to go, we had to be in
51:29
and I think it was like May. We had many camps. He had
51:31
about a month, couple of weeks. Yeah, like that. And like
51:35
I was trying to you know, when you say many camp, I don't
51:37
know what many camp is. You know, that's just a short version of
51:42
camp. You know. They just want to see what you can do and
51:44
introduce you know, because some players get messing around and get cut. Then
51:47
well you can't get you don't get cut there, but you but you will
51:52
you can either make them all get those demerits. Yeah. Yeah, And
51:55
so again we were gonna be in my I'm gonna be on the field.
52:01
I gotta play and I gotta be there. I gotta be in shape.
52:05
I gotta be there. So I did, man, I like, I
52:08
did every thing I could possibly do to be in the best shape that I
52:16
could I could be. And by the time by the time I got to
52:22
Marshall, I'm I'm, I'm, I'm one hundred and eighty. So now
52:27
you know, and you know, so I didn't. I didn't. I
52:31
didn't put on weight, you know, I'm I'm I'm pumped up, ripped
52:36
up and can and and feel comfortable about running and all that kind of stuff
52:40
like and and I and my whole conversation was, ain't no way they're gonna
52:46
break me. So so as far as the physical side, you you seem
52:53
to like kind of been prepping yourself your whole life for that. I'm wondering
52:59
just about the middle side, not emotional. I'm just talking my straight technical
53:05
when it comes to actually being able to grasp the conceptual schemes that the NFL
53:10
would present. Because I know some guys, guys I know who couldn't get
53:16
that part of it, and they and they found themselves outside the league.
53:21
So how were you able to like how fast were you able to grasp those
53:24
concepts? To be honest, it was, it was it was relatively easy
53:30
to me because I was I was football based, Okay, you know what
53:35
I'm saying. Yeah, Like I was like, man, I'm watching games
53:38
and you know, and I'm trying to figure out whether or not they cover
53:40
three or what they had, you know, Like like I like all of
53:45
that kind of stuff, Like I was prepared to when you taught me something.
53:52
When you were gonna teach me something, I'm going to learn it.
53:55
Okay, you know, like when we like again, when we put in
53:59
we put it, when when Pete Carroll got to Minnesota and put in bump
54:02
and run, and we're starting to take the step punch, step punch,
54:07
step punch, and I'm I'm doing it, and I'm like thinking, man,
54:13
I can do this, like like it wasn't hard for me. I
54:15
was picking it up. And I called my mom and I was telling,
54:20
you know, because I was calling her through camp and stuff, and I
54:22
told my mom, I said, Mom, I think I can do this,
54:25
I said, And I think I could be good at it, you
54:28
know. And you know, there was there was a dude from University of
54:31
Miami. His name was John Swain and he had been the starter for three
54:36
years prior to me, and and brother, like I was targeting him like
54:46
he was like he was he was the guy in my way. And he's
54:52
the guy who told me, you know, slow down on the conditioning.
54:57
I said, bro, no, I can't. I can't slow down.
55:00
I ain't gonna know where to go. I can't go home. This is
55:01
all I got. Yeah, you know, I ain't saying welcome home.
55:07
You better mind your way. And so I put everything into it, and
55:14
and and I had my football I Q. I'm not gonna say was high.
55:21
It was just it was eager, OK. Yeah, it was eager
55:25
to to tell me something, show me, show me something, show me
55:30
something. I don't know. So you was like you was a sponge.
55:35
If you give it to me, man, I'm trying to take it and
55:37
and and do the best I can with See. It's such an interesting and
55:42
I know we kind of running tight on time. Like a juxtaposition between you
55:46
and Randy Moss. Like you both guys from the valley, opposite ends of
55:51
the valleys. You have kind of opposite ends entering college, you know ones
55:55
Holly Tawny, you're kind of not that you just sneaky your way in,
55:59
but you're basically you're a guy, you know what I mean. You both
56:02
obviously he just explodes on the marshall. You know, they win titles,
56:07
they win games. You you you would have the same explosion. Doesn't they
56:10
transfer to wins? I think probably the nature of the position that you're playing
56:14
as well, and and just the career paths that you both had. It's
56:20
it's just it's a very interesting juxtaposition because I think that you know, I'm
56:27
not never not questioning his work ethic at all, but I think maybe his
56:31
work ethic may be caught on later where he really knew Okay, I got
56:35
to turn it all the way up, you know what I'm saying. But
56:37
maybe maybe not, I don't know. But it just having that sort of
56:42
same work ethic to maintain yourself in the league, and just to have these
56:46
great careers coming from essentially the same place and almost you know, a similar
56:53
path even going to the vikings out, you know what I mean. Just
56:55
that, I think, I think to to your point of trying to compare
57:01
the two, not necessarily comparing, well, he's looking at the walks.
57:07
It's just I think I think his wasn't desperate. He didn't have to be
57:12
desperate in his see. But see, I would challenge you on that,
57:16
and I know why it wasn't that way at first. But when you obviously
57:21
going through his trials and tribulations did ending up at Marshall, that's sort of
57:24
a desperate situation. I'm saying, playing like a man man, But I'm
57:29
saying his talent, his talent. Everybody can see his talent, so him
57:35
him going from Marshall to the League was clear. I don't think so I'm
57:44
saying talent. Obviously, we're not even questioning he's the greatest athlete, one
57:49
of the greatest athletes of all the time. But I'm just saying because of
57:52
the trials and tribulations that he went through, you going for Marshall, people
57:57
are just I think people. It gave people, and I think maybe even
58:00
to himself or whoever else, maybe he did have to prove something. I
58:05
don't know, but it seemed like he was playing like that because he was
58:08
playing lights out there. Marshall absolutely insane. I've never seen any a two
58:13
year run like they. I was looking at the stat sheet, scores like
58:15
fifty sixty touchdowns in like twenty eight games. I mean, it's just ridiculous.
58:21
Right, So I think to your point, and if you want to
58:23
talk about a compression, I think you both had that same sort of I
58:28
wouldn't say desperation, but that same sort of need to like, Okay,
58:31
I'm gonna take where I'm at and I'm gonna turn it all the way up.
58:35
So proving had a point, that prove and and they're just come but
58:42
starting from different places. You see what I'm saying, Yes, there is
58:45
a there was a sense of wanting to prove that you could belong there,
58:53
Like the moment that you stepped the moment you walk into that locker room and
58:58
you see, you see your name, league and your number. They can
59:02
pull that off, They can pull it off at any given time. But
59:06
there's something about the concept of like to see that. I want to see
59:13
that for a long time, and I don't want to give. I don't
59:16
want to give. I don't want I don't want to look at that name
59:19
and just sit on the stool and just be cool about it and say so
59:23
you know I'm here, and I think just so. Like I said,
59:27
the comparod these to you two guys that's from the valley. You had one
59:30
guy that said, you know, I'm gonna have to prove my way all
59:35
the way from the dirt to get to this point, and I'm gonna have
59:37
to in one guy that says, I'm not gonna let what happened to me
59:40
in the past dictate my future. You know, say it created a fire
59:45
in both of you. Now I gotta talk about you know, you go
59:49
to league, you make teams, and you get number thirty nine. Now
59:52
I love these weird numbers like Michael Irvin had forty seven as a receiver in
1:00:00
college, and I think more guys should get number forty seven. Forget the
1:00:04
cool numbers. I like that. When I think of number forty seven,
1:00:07
I think of Michael Irver. When I think of number thirty nine, I
1:00:08
think of Carl Lee. So how did that come about it? Right?
1:00:12
It was just in my locker, Like I was talking to you. Dennis
1:00:17
Ryan was the equipment guy. Me and him got to be really super close.
1:00:22
I looked at that number and I was like, thirty nine, thirty
1:00:24
nine. I ain't have no interest in the number, but Lee was on
1:00:30
top of it, and so I'm like, I can't be mad at that.
1:00:35
Yeah, I loved it so well? Can I love it? Ain't
1:00:37
nobody else thirty nine. When you think of anybody else, it's just you.
1:00:42
I think of forty seven, you think of Michael Irvin as far as
1:00:45
a receiver. Yeah, Because I was gonna say, I think Joey Browner
1:00:47
was forty seven. I mean, and you know you had Steve at Water.
1:00:50
I think of some other guys in the league. But I'm just saying,
1:00:52
when you have those sort of awkward numbers, people just didn't necessarily associate
1:00:58
with anything. It's just like I can't underst and want anybody in basketball.
1:01:00
We'll get number twenty three. I don't want that number. Now I'm twenty
1:01:05
three. You can't hold up to that. Now, just let that go
1:01:07
get crazy. All right, Well, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna get
1:01:12
off here. Hollis. I think that was a great interview. You could
1:01:17
be the host. All Right, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna get out
1:01:21
of here. So we appreciate you joining us, and we'll be back again
1:01:23
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