Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP25 - Ancestor Veneration... How Far Back Do We Go? (feat. Bradly Shelby)

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP25 - Ancestor Veneration... How Far Back Do We Go? (feat. Bradly Shelby) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:00
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathenry Ramblings
• 0:03
  podcast, where we discuss all sorts of things dramatic
• 0:06
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse.
• 0:09
  I am your host. Let's get into it.
• 0:31
  Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode
• 0:33
  of the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast.
• 0:35
  Thanks so much for coming back here and seeing what we ramble
• 0:39
  on about today. As you noticed here recently, we
• 0:43
  have kind of branched off from the beaten path, as it were
• 0:46
  gonna have gone off the beaten path into some territory.
• 0:49
  That is not typical for heathen conversations, but somehow we
• 0:52
  always find commonalities and nuances and things that can
• 0:55
  just. You know wrap things up in the
• 0:59
  in in this podcast in a way so we're not entirely veering off
• 1:02
  the the Heathen topics. But today's episode is going to
• 1:06
  be very much central centralized around things that mean a lot to
• 1:12
  us as Heathens. We're going to be talking today
• 1:15
  with a guest. His name is Bradley and he he
• 1:18
  hit me up on Facebook and asked about Ancestry.
• 1:25
  Specifically which of course, for all of us as heathens, Our
• 1:31
  views on ancestor veneration I think can pretty much be summed
• 1:34
  up as everybody that is Heathen has a place for the importance
• 1:39
  of ancestor veneration in their practices.
• 1:41
  Some people may do it a little bit differently, some people may
• 1:44
  have different perspectives, but the concept, the idea.
• 1:48
  Of ancestor veneration is an important one that many heathens
• 1:51
  worldwide do share. And we're gonna be talking today
• 1:54
  with Bradley because he asked me this question about how far back
• 2:00
  do we go with our ancestors? You know, it's a thing that we
• 2:03
  hear all the time, right? I've said it many times about
• 2:06
  that Your ancestors continue to notice you.
• 2:09
  I sign off all of my podcasts with that phrase.
• 2:12
  So it bears the question. Which ancestors would we even
• 2:15
  want to notice us? Do we recognize any and all of
• 2:18
  our ancestors as far back as we possibly can And kind of what
• 2:22
  that, you know, how that or or rather how that fits into
• 2:30
  individual practices, maybe group practices.
• 2:33
  So we're going to talk about that today.
• 2:34
  We're going to see what Bradley's thoughts are.
• 2:36
  We're going to hear, of course, what my thoughts are and talk
• 2:39
  about DNA ancestry, how far back.
• 2:43
  Do we actually go? So we're going to be bringing
• 2:46
  him in here shortly. Before we do, please be sure to
• 2:48
  give this video, if you're watching this on the video
• 2:50
  platforms a like thumbs up, interact with it in some way.
• 2:53
  Follow me on all of the socials that are LinkedIn, the link tree
• 2:56
  link in the description and show notes of this podcast.
• 2:59
  And wherever you're catching this podcast, if it's just an
• 3:02
  audio version, do be sure to follow, you know, upvote it,
• 3:05
  download it, All of those types of things.
• 3:08
  The way that you interact on those platforms does help with
• 3:10
  the growth of the podcast, the more ears and eyes that we get.
• 3:14
  Here on this, on this platform or these platforms the better.
• 3:18
  So let's welcome in Bradley who again is going to be talking
• 3:21
  with me today about our ancestors and just how far back
• 3:26
  do we actually go. All right folks.
• 3:30
  So I'm joined here today with a Facebook friend of mine's name
• 3:34
  is Bradley who is been heathen for.
• 3:37
  I'm not sure how long but welcome to the show.
• 3:38
  Bradley. Thanks for for joining me today.
• 3:41
  Great to be on here after. Lots of listening to episodes
• 3:43
  and actually being on one now. Yeah, I appreciate.
• 3:47
  How long you been listening or or following the podcast?
• 3:50
  Probably about the last two years now I've been listening
• 3:53
  off and on my job. I do a lot of, I have a lot of
• 3:56
  time to listen things, so anything I can find that even re
• 3:59
  related and decent really kind of helps move the night.
• 4:02
  Along. OK, cool.
• 4:05
  Well, I appreciate the the, the support, you know, it's nice to
• 4:09
  know that there's people. Where are you located by the
• 4:10
  way, if you don't mind? Up in the very, very
• 4:14
  northeastern corner of Oklahoma. So I'm pretty much right against
• 4:18
  Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma. OK, I used to travel a lot for a
• 4:24
  job in the night. I used to do like prisoner
• 4:27
  transports. And one thing about Oklahoma,
• 4:30
  Kansas, Missouri, that whole area is there.
• 4:31
  There ain't a whole lot going on.
• 4:33
  No. It's pretty remote.
• 4:37
  Yeah, especially where the town I'm in, we're still.
• 4:41
  We're in the edge of the Ozarks, so we're a little bit better.
• 4:44
  There's some hills, trees, things like that.
• 4:46
  But yeah, you go West at all and it's.
• 4:49
  Just this is flat, Flat. And empty is that.
• 4:53
  Where you're originally from. Yeah, yeah, I've I've had family
• 4:57
  in essentially the town I live in or the small surrounding
• 5:00
  towns for probably 5 or 6 generations.
• 5:04
  Now, yeah, there's that. Small cemetery near here.
• 5:09
  I can go back and I think the oldest is.
• 5:11
  Great, great. Great grandparent at that.
• 5:16
  One, so wow. I've not, I can't think of too
• 5:19
  many people that I know in my life or I've talked to who can
• 5:23
  say that like, they're they're in the same vicinity, the same
• 5:27
  general area as that many of their ancestors are from.
• 5:32
  Like a lot of people, myself included, have you know, like
• 5:35
  uprooted and moved away from where they were born and raised.
• 5:39
  You know and found a life somewhere else.
• 5:42
  So that's pretty that that's pretty amazing that that not
• 5:45
  just you, but people that far back in your lineage have stayed
• 5:50
  in the same same area, has a lot of history there, I'm sure.
• 5:53
  Oh yeah, that small cemetery. There's a whole section just
• 5:57
  dedicated pretty much to people I'm related to.
• 5:59
  It's a small country cemetery. But yeah, so it's it's really
• 6:04
  kind of an experience to go out there and take the kids out
• 6:06
  there too, that is. Away from the city, out in the
• 6:09
  country and they be able to walk them down the line.
• 6:13
  Michael, this is my grandparents.
• 6:15
  This is their parents. But I do have ancestors more
• 6:20
  far-flung and Colorado and then some more out of Missouri and.
• 6:27
  Then. From their.
• 6:28
  France. Okay.
• 6:31
  Gotcha. So you your, your European
• 6:34
  ancestry is is a lot of French. Yeah, so let's see my on my
• 6:40
  mother's side, her grandparents came here, France, and then
• 6:45
  they're the ones where they're buried in Colorado.
• 6:49
  And then on my father's side, there's a lot of Irish, German,
• 6:53
  Northern English, like right in the borders kind of Scotland and
• 6:57
  England there. And then, oh, totally other side
• 7:03
  of the the ocean. I have a White Mountain Apache
• 7:05
  heritage too. Apache okay.
• 7:09
  You might be the first person that I know that that is, that
• 7:12
  has claimed Apache as their indigenous background.
• 7:16
  Most people that I have come across living where I live
• 7:20
  always have Cherokee ancestry, you know?
• 7:26
  Here in Miami, where I live, I mean, this is I think
• 7:30
  technically one of the Cherokee reservation.
• 7:32
  So yeah, there's a ton of that, but you know.
• 7:36
  I think it's Fort Sill where they moved the impact to and
• 7:40
  that's where Geronimo is buried. And so that's where that branch,
• 7:44
  my ancestry kind of started in Oklahoma and moved up to this
• 7:48
  area. Interesting.
• 7:51
  Very cool. And have you been heathen your
• 7:55
  whole life or did you come into this through another path or
• 8:00
  another way? So I've been heathen for about
• 8:02
  12. It's 12 years now.
• 8:04
  Yeah, it was. Yeah, past April.
• 8:08
  So it's 12 years now. Before that, I was just kind of
• 8:11
  a, at least as early as, you know, a little kid understands
• 8:16
  religious. I was kind of, I guess,
• 8:19
  eclectic. Pagan would have been the right
• 8:21
  term for it. You know, I knew, I believe that
• 8:24
  there were dogs, that there were spirits, that there was, you
• 8:28
  know, a magic and things like that, but.
• 8:31
  Living in small town Oklahoma, really before you had access to
• 8:34
  the Internet, you were kind of, you know, trying to teach
• 8:38
  yourself off scrap. So you couldn't it be super
• 8:43
  focused on like I can be now with, you know, more North
• 8:47
  Reconstruction. It was a, well, I have this
• 8:50
  mythology book on Celtic War. Here's a little bit of something
• 8:54
  from a Wiccan spell book I can maybe read.
• 8:58
  It was just a hodgepodge of what you could.
• 9:01
  Actually get your hands. On interesting, Yeah.
• 9:05
  And I can't imagine that rural town Oklahoma has or had a
• 9:11
  really extensive library of of source material to.
• 9:16
  Know. To tap into right.
• 9:19
  It was your your best shot was to just go and look at stuff
• 9:23
  purely from a mythological standpoint.
• 9:26
  They like well. There's a book of myths which is
• 9:29
  which is obviously useful and informative, and I love
• 9:33
  mythology on its own, but trying to build any kind of worldview
• 9:39
  or practice from just that, especially when you're 10/11/12,
• 9:44
  is kind of a challenge. Yeah, yeah, I don't think you
• 9:49
  can really use the mythology to. Formulate world views.
• 9:55
  Know you have to understand the the culture of the people and
• 10:00
  you know, see things from a societal standpoint versus a
• 10:03
  mythological standpoint, you know.
• 10:05
  It's very much putting the cart before the horse.
• 10:09
  That's why I'm telling people like, oh, well, I, you know, I
• 10:12
  don't know anything, but I've got, you know, some edits and
• 10:15
  things like that, like oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, yeah, gonna be great
• 10:19
  stories. They're going to be very
• 10:20
  interesting. You know, you're going to enjoy
• 10:22
  them. But there's a lot of
• 10:25
  contextualization, things like that, that are just totally
• 10:29
  either going to go over your head or you're going to take in
• 10:33
  a very different way than it might have been originally.
• 10:38
  Yeah, yeah, I think, I think you're right.
• 10:40
  You know, cuz the myths are framed around how the cultures
• 10:44
  lived and and how these people viewed the world, you know, So
• 10:49
  the stories are are based around that and without knowing.
• 10:53
  That first or or having an understanding of that you're you
• 10:56
  said put in that cart before the horse and I've said this too for
• 10:59
  a long time is like people are that that that just seems to be
• 11:02
  the thing when when people get asked So what what should I
• 11:05
  start reading how many comments do you see on your social media
• 11:09
  that it's like one of the first things people always say is is
• 11:11
  get the pros out or read the poetic Etta.
• 11:15
  It's like, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, they look like
• 11:21
  good. Oh, I was just going to say I
• 11:22
  think part of that is a because like I said, they're they're
• 11:26
  very readable. You know, they're meant to be
• 11:29
  stories that are told and enjoyed around a campfire.
• 11:32
  And you know, people can pick those up and read them.
• 11:37
  And you know, like I said, you might be missing the
• 11:39
  contextualization, but you can still go well, that was a fun
• 11:42
  story. I enjoyed reading that, whereas
• 11:45
  I was I if I say you know, well, here's the culture of 2 tons or.
• 11:49
  You know, the the one I got these very dry, very scholarly
• 11:54
  works. You know, someone's not used to
• 11:57
  that. They just kind of, you know, it
• 11:59
  can be a real just challenge for them.
• 12:03
  And then also just availability, you know, I mean, I can go to
• 12:07
  any big chain bookstore usually and find copies of the edits,
• 12:13
  whereas those other books, you either aren't going to find them
• 12:16
  or you're going to have to look online.
• 12:19
  And half the time there's you know, some of them aren't cheap.
• 12:22
  Exactly you. Know whereas Ed, as you can.
• 12:25
  Like I said, go to a local bookstore, 10 bucks.
• 12:28
  Have a coffee. Yeah, I recently shared like my
• 12:33
  recommended reading list. Some of the books that you
• 12:36
  mentioned already are on that list and but good luck trying to
• 12:40
  find some of them. Or, you know, if you do find it,
• 12:43
  be ready to drop some serious change to own a copy.
• 12:49
  Yeah, I mean anymore if if I'm my recommended book list, I make
• 12:55
  sure that I have PDF's where or physical copies, I can loan out
• 13:00
  either one. So I can say well try to get it.
• 13:04
  If you can't, you know, if it's just not viable for you, whether
• 13:08
  it be the cost of entry, availability, I will find a way
• 13:13
  to get it. You know I can't help you.
• 13:16
  You know I can't make you read it once I give it to you.
• 13:20
  I can, at the very least, get it into your hands.
• 13:23
  Yeah. So you mentioned the thing
• 13:25
  earlier that folks on that have followed the podcast, I'm sure
• 13:29
  are aware of, and I've said it many times about the type of
• 13:32
  Pagan that I am at the heat and that I am is you mentioned being
• 13:35
  North Reconstructionist. So would you consider yourself a
• 13:39
  Reconstructionist heathen? Yeah, I don't.
• 13:44
  I don't take quite a super. Like hard line on it as some
• 13:49
  people I've seen where you know it's.
• 13:51
  It's perfect, yeah. The hardcore recons, yeah.
• 13:55
  It's one of those things I always remind myself I can't let
• 13:58
  the perfect be the enemy of the good, because I always view it
• 14:03
  As for me, as in reconstruction. When you're building a home, you
• 14:09
  need a good foundation, but you also still have to build the
• 14:12
  home on top. Of it.
• 14:15
  The reconstruction part is all about creating that good, solid
• 14:18
  foundation. At the same time, I also have to
• 14:21
  have Perth Cult, UPG, things like that, which is the actual
• 14:25
  house I'm going to live on, live in that I have to build on top
• 14:30
  of that. And you know you can't always.
• 14:33
  The foundation in the house aren't going to be identical.
• 14:36
  They're parts of each other, but.
• 14:39
  Not everybody's house is the same.
• 14:41
  Yeah, you know, it's going to be different.
• 14:43
  You might both have similar foundation, you know, but the
• 14:47
  house you build on it, it's even that's going to have similarity,
• 14:51
  but at the end of the day, it's still going to be your house.
• 14:55
  I like that analogy, you know, using the the reconstruction
• 14:59
  aspects of this as the foundation to build your house
• 15:03
  on. And I like how you mentioned
• 15:05
  also hearth cult because you know when I first came into heat
• 15:10
  and re almost. Let's say almost nine years ago.
• 15:14
  So I'm a little behind you on on the the, the, the time frame.
• 15:18
  I came into this path from being Christian before, you know what
• 15:22
  I mean? So when you want to talk about
• 15:24
  like worldviews, you know, this path has, has, has a worldview
• 15:30
  that is very different from a Christian worldview.
• 15:34
  So it was like having to be be reprogrammed in a way.
• 15:39
  And you don't learn that stuff from the Edis, you know, you
• 15:40
  don't get that. That that that that level of
• 15:44
  information from from the edits like you said.
• 15:47
  So did you have something similar with you?
• 15:50
  I know you mentioned you know you were more of an eclectic
• 15:52
  type Pagan earlier on and then you know about over a decade ago
• 15:57
  was when you came into the Heathenry, did you already like
• 16:00
  was it was it difficult for you to shift your world views or
• 16:03
  were you already kind of in in line with things that you later
• 16:06
  on learned are dramatic heathen? It's a little bit of A and BI
• 16:12
  mean there were already bits and pieces there especially because
• 16:15
  you know not only was I think it is you know I've also was a long
• 16:19
  time Tokyian nerd. So you know I had already take
• 16:23
  so much of that is based on dramatic concepts, myths, things
• 16:26
  like that. So that helped a little bit too
• 16:28
  But Oh yeah there was a culture shock because I don't I don't
• 16:32
  think there's any way to avoid the culture shock at least in my
• 16:35
  opinion, if you're really going to come fully into either.
• 16:39
  Because even just the religious side of, you know, the religious
• 16:44
  part aside, so much of our culture is radically different
• 16:49
  than, you know, the pre Christian dramatic conceptions.
• 16:52
  So you are going through this culture shock of like, oh, now
• 16:56
  luck is a real thing that I have to think about and reputation
• 17:00
  matters. Whereas in our culture, you
• 17:01
  know, it's like, oh don't worry, you know, don't worry what
• 17:04
  people say about you. It's what you think.
• 17:05
  Well, now all of a sudden it's no, it's.
• 17:08
  Lift on its head and you know, world accepting versus world
• 17:13
  rejecting and you know it's just this list of things.
• 17:17
  And you know there's the extra weight of the fact that most of
• 17:23
  us are trying to do this a on our own and B in A while still
• 17:30
  being in the original culture. You know, a lot of times if
• 17:33
  you're adapting to a new culture and going to this culture shop,
• 17:36
  you're in that new culture, you're surrounded by it and that
• 17:40
  helps you ease you into it because you don't have a choice.
• 17:44
  Whereas us, you are still surrounded by the original
• 17:48
  culture and trying to move yourself mentally, emotionally,
• 17:54
  you know, through your relationships into this new
• 17:57
  culture without that you know. Structure around you to help.
• 18:03
  So you're saying just pushing yourself through from the ground
• 18:06
  up. Yeah and and how hard has it
• 18:09
  been for you to, you know, cuz the way I see Heathenry really
• 18:13
  thriving is at the tribal level. Like there people need to be
• 18:17
  with each other for Heathenry to really shine.
• 18:23
  Like the the, the, the the world views of the values, the the
• 18:26
  morals, the ethics, all these things.
• 18:28
  Cannot happen without tribe or without that close
• 18:32
  interconnected you, you know, sort of like an extension of the
• 18:35
  family unit existing. And it's that concept even
• 18:41
  nowadays in modern times is so far removed from the majority of
• 18:45
  people. It's it's so discouraging, you
• 18:48
  know, when you talk about wanting to bring people together
• 18:50
  or or establishing some sort of like tribe or kindred or
• 18:53
  whatever group, you know, name you want to put to it.
• 18:59
  You know, without people really like you say getting into the
• 19:02
  the studies of the cultures and and and how it was and how it
• 19:07
  worked at at A at a time way back when.
• 19:11
  Without that it's like again, you know it, it's an uphill
• 19:14
  battle, at least what I've found.
• 19:16
  It's not not saying it's it's you know, not worth trying and
• 19:19
  not worth keeping at it, but it's definitely tough to get
• 19:24
  those things happening, at least in my area.
• 19:26
  Oh yeah. And I mean so much of our over
• 19:29
  culture is just, it's anathema to, you know, these concepts
• 19:36
  where like I said, you were talking about, you know, bring
• 19:39
  the importance of the group practicing together.
• 19:42
  You know, how our relationships grow and change throughout this
• 19:47
  worldview, whereas you know, modern especially American
• 19:50
  Society it's. You know, hyper, individualized,
• 19:53
  hyper capitalized, hyper, you know, separation from the
• 19:57
  natural world. You know it's all of these
• 20:00
  things where it just wants to make it as hard as as possible
• 20:05
  because you know that's that's what keeps butts and seats set
• 20:09
  at jobs and that's what keeps the industrial machine rolling.
• 20:13
  You know, the idea of people being more reliant on each
• 20:17
  other, that's not good business, so.
• 20:20
  You know, we have structures in place to kind of prevent that
• 20:24
  people being more open to growing their own food and being
• 20:29
  more involved in creating their own food.
• 20:32
  You know, that's not good for business.
• 20:33
  So that's a they throw stuff in that way.
• 20:37
  So yeah, it's it's a very uphill battle.
• 20:40
  But like you said, it's entirely worth it.
• 20:43
  It's just those first, I usually tell people the first three to
• 20:46
  five years are going to be rough because you're going to go.
• 20:49
  Honeymoon period. And then it's going to get hard
• 20:53
  for a while. That and also you know, when we
• 20:58
  talk about the practice of it, the doing of it, right, how much
• 21:03
  of what is done or or what was done, you know, like we're going
• 21:06
  to be talking about ancestry here soon, you know, and and
• 21:08
  veneration of ancestors and how far back do we go when we're
• 21:11
  going to talk a bit about that, one of the things about ancestry
• 21:16
  is, is inheritance. And and the things that were
• 21:19
  passed down from descendant to descendant land being a big one.
• 21:25
  You know, you used to have at one point in time part of the
• 21:28
  Germanic culture where families, the deceased were buried on old
• 21:32
  all lands, the ancestral lands. That's not a thing, at least not
• 21:36
  here in America. And look at how hard it is to
• 21:38
  even own a piece of property, how expensive it is, the, the
• 21:43
  legal red tape that you have to go through in a lot of areas,
• 21:46
  right. It's it's damn near impossible
• 21:48
  for aspiring young people, especially nowadays, to want to
• 21:53
  to start that even if they want to.
• 21:54
  It's it's damn near impossible. Yeah, absolutely it is.
• 21:58
  I mean, it's like I said, it's that thing to make it more
• 22:03
  difficult for individuals or even group of individuals as
• 22:06
  opposed to corporations, big business, things like that where
• 22:11
  you know a person like you or me, we can't throw. $800,000 at
• 22:16
  purchasing a property and you know, not think about it but
• 22:20
  lots of other bodies of out there can.
• 22:23
  So I said we're uphill battle playing with kind of a stacked
• 22:27
  deck but we also have a ton of choice true place I guess.
• 22:34
  Yeah true. You know and it's it.
• 22:37
  It's the types of things that you know you can we had you have
• 22:39
  ambitions to to achieve or or or things that you want to achieve
• 22:42
  I mean. We're we we're really only
• 22:45
  limited to what we apply ourselves to do.
• 22:48
  I think in in many cases it's it's not that it's it's not
• 22:52
  unattainable it's like I say it's it's damn near impossible
• 22:54
  it's very difficult it's but it's I don't think it's
• 22:57
  unattainable. You know like you say you just
• 23:00
  make the right choices think of the right you know come in come
• 23:04
  at it from the right angle and it doesn't happen overnight
• 23:07
  doesn't happen right away. You know people that.
• 23:12
  I've I've I've been of the of the mind for a long time that
• 23:14
  the the type of people who want to see things happen that that
• 23:20
  share in the same kind of vision as you will come to you.
• 23:25
  You know what I mean Like you're not going to have to really go
• 23:27
  looking for it. It's it's if you're doing
• 23:30
  certain things a certain way and and people see that they're
• 23:32
  going to be like oh this guy whatever they're they they're we
• 23:37
  align. And and let's make things happen
• 23:40
  together. And then that's where that's
• 23:42
  where the magic happens. You know, you get more hands
• 23:45
  that many hands do make light work.
• 23:47
  You know, you get more people actively wanting to to see this
• 23:52
  come to fruition. It's all about forming those
• 23:55
  communities and some bonds. I can always tell people if you
• 23:59
  look at any, you know, minority community in this country,
• 24:03
  whether they're ethnic, religious, nationality, you
• 24:07
  know. A lot of them are going through
• 24:09
  the same thing. They are, you know, trying to
• 24:13
  hold on to or create a culture, you know, inside of a society
• 24:19
  that's either indifferent or possible to it.
• 24:22
  And they have to find ways to demand that grow through that.
• 24:27
  And you know, with the number one thing they do is they form a
• 24:30
  community that's. So much just isn't
• 24:35
  accomplishable on our own, unless there's some kind of
• 24:38
  superstitious, you know, left the size of the Himalayas kind
• 24:43
  of guy I have. But with that computed, all of a
• 24:49
  sudden things become possible that would never have been
• 24:53
  possible on throw doors open that never otherwise would open.
• 25:03
  I agree. You know I I've worked for the
• 25:07
  last few years to have a small group of people that I would
• 25:12
  consider kith right. That extension of the kin you
• 25:18
  know that that family unit and and with that has come
• 25:23
  obligation. Of course with that have come
• 25:26
  certain challenges right there. The tribe that was is not the
• 25:28
  tribe that is. And is also not the tribe that
• 25:32
  will be, I'm sure. It's constantly growing and
• 25:36
  evolving and shifting, you know what I mean?
• 25:40
  It doesn't stay the same all the time.
• 25:44
  So it's a constant work in progress.
• 25:47
  Yeah, but that's that's one of the things I always hope you
• 25:49
  when they're talking about groups is a lot of people want
• 25:53
  to create something very rigid that will stay the same forever
• 25:58
  and you know. Throw enough rules at it to beat
• 26:01
  any problems before they happen. Unfortunately, that's not really
• 26:04
  how human beings work, so. Tell.
• 26:08
  Me what? You've got to be open to change.
• 26:11
  You've got to be open to the fact that people aren't going to
• 26:15
  come with their issues that we can do, you know, be there to
• 26:20
  kind of help help them through those and grow through them or,
• 26:25
  you know, just, you know, not get bogged down by it.
• 26:29
  Changes that. The practices and information.
• 26:33
  You know it. You can't just carve something
• 26:35
  out of stone and say this is it forever and freak out anytime it
• 26:39
  tries to change. Yeah, it's just going to erode
• 26:42
  away to sand. Yeah, that.
• 26:44
  And also you know, if people try to form or establish groups so
• 26:50
  strictly as based around the way certain groups were established
• 26:57
  or formed. In in Archies and times again
• 27:01
  looking at you know from a cultural standpoint, look yes
• 27:04
  the world really hasn't grown but it was a smaller.
• 27:08
  It was smaller back then. You know what you mean?
• 27:09
  Like the way it wasn't as big of a place for these people and and
• 27:13
  it was also how you know feudal cultures, war bands and and
• 27:19
  stuff. I mean they were they were they
• 27:21
  were sure they were agriculturally inclined.
• 27:24
  They were farmers and and then doing all the things just to
• 27:26
  live off of the land but. There was, there were, there
• 27:30
  were the war bands that that had a very militant structure to it.
• 27:34
  And it's just like here in modern day.
• 27:35
  You know what I mean? The way that the military is,
• 27:37
  the way that the, you know, police forces and and all these
• 27:39
  other sort of militant or organizations are structured as
• 27:44
  way more, you know, carved in stone in terms of, you know,
• 27:49
  chains of command and and and whatnot then than the average,
• 27:54
  you know, Joe going down the street going to their jobs or
• 27:57
  whatever so. I don't know.
• 27:59
  I've seen, I've seen groups get formed under the banner of
• 28:04
  Heathenry, let's say that become very they, they, they they
• 28:08
  dissolve because of that overrigidness.
• 28:11
  You know, you guess what guys. You're not a war band.
• 28:14
  This isn't, you know. Yeah, sure you may you might can
• 28:16
  use titles and things to describe your your, your group
• 28:19
  or your structure, but it ain't the same as it was, you know
• 28:24
  1000 years ago or more. Kind of a a cart before the
• 28:28
  horse situation again. I I see it.
• 28:31
  I've seen it so many times groups like they're in love with
• 28:34
  these very lofty titles you know or we have cheap thins and
• 28:38
  throtons and skulls and you know Githia and go with high and just
• 28:43
  all these. My question usually then it's
• 28:45
  like OK well that's that's great but do you have you have a brew
• 28:49
  who's your Brewer you know who's your who's your your Baker do
• 28:54
  you have a blacksmith do you have.
• 28:57
  Somebody who maybe knows herbal medicine is someone doing your
• 29:01
  sewing, your weaving, because those are the things that really
• 29:04
  build connection in a side of a group and that groups need as
• 29:09
  opposed to, you know, this very formal, rigid political
• 29:14
  structure. You know that yes, if you are
• 29:18
  cheating times especially like, Oh well, this is a group of, you
• 29:22
  know, dozens to hundreds of individuals.
• 29:26
  Yeah, you need that. But when there's six of you,
• 29:29
  you're better off going well. This is, this is Sam, and he
• 29:33
  brews the meat or the beer for our rituals.
• 29:35
  And he's, you know, he's very important to us because this is
• 29:39
  a very important role. And you know, that person feels
• 29:43
  like they're really contributing something concrete stall group.
• 29:47
  And then the people on the receiving end also feel like
• 29:51
  they're getting something solid and, you know, tangible.
• 29:55
  Out of that relationship as opposed to saying, well, this is
• 29:58
  this is someone whose role is largely ceremonial and might be
• 30:03
  useful once in a while. This is no, this is Sam.
• 30:06
  I mean if he if he left or was hurt or something, we would be
• 30:11
  in real trouble. You know, because this is a
• 30:14
  brewery. This is important for you know
• 30:17
  Sally she makes all the bread loaf fresh for our offering.
• 30:21
  You know this is this is really important and we.
• 30:25
  You know, there's an appreciation there that goes a
• 30:28
  lot deeper than just, you know, this largely O'Neal title.
• 30:34
  I always be my focus on, on concrete roles in a group so
• 30:39
  that you're getting this physical give and take of
• 30:42
  things, you know, even if it's outside of a virtual context
• 30:46
  like well, this is this is our member and.
• 30:50
  He studies blacksmithing and you know, he creates stuff for the
• 30:54
  group and you know, maybe we all get together and we, you know,
• 30:59
  pitch in and we buy him an anvil.
• 31:01
  And because his contribution to our group is important, even
• 31:07
  outside of original contact, you know, just having someone with
• 31:10
  skills and abilities is important, more important in my
• 31:15
  mind than just. Very lofty titles that are
• 31:18
  largely ceremonial because those are the kind of things that
• 31:22
  really build relationships, that laughs.
• 31:27
  Yeah, I definitely can see that. And you know, I think some of
• 31:29
  the pitfalls that can happen are like you say, putting that cart
• 31:32
  before the horse. People think, well, I have to
• 31:34
  have, we have to have this, you know, title and and structure.
• 31:39
  But why? Like, what's the purpose?
• 31:41
  And #1, #2 is who? Did you give yourself this
• 31:45
  title? Are you now this person that you
• 31:48
  think you are or or or are you doing the things that this title
• 31:54
  with with that that a person with that title does?
• 31:57
  You know? Are you a goalie just because
• 32:00
  you know you say you are or or have you done the things that go
• 32:04
  these do or whatever, you know what I mean?
• 32:06
  So again it it it goes back to again like world views and
• 32:09
  stuff, which you could do a whole episode on just that.
• 32:11
  But how worth was was placed? And how that applies in modern
• 32:16
  times. You know you are worth what your
• 32:18
  what your group, what your people say you're worth and and
• 32:22
  worth is given to you through your deeds.
• 32:25
  It's, you know, it's not just because I've been a human for 12
• 32:28
  years or 10 years or 20 years, you know?
• 32:31
  Yeah, Or, you know, like I said, it's kind of the opposite of our
• 32:34
  modern culture, where y'all worth is just based on your own
• 32:39
  thoughts and feelings and nobody can tell me what I'm worth and I
• 32:43
  know what I'm worth. And you know which you know is
• 32:47
  nice and has a place but you know you have to look at that
• 32:52
  through the lens of for us at least of you know pre Christian
• 32:57
  dramatic belief going like well, yes, it's important that I know
• 33:00
  my worth and I I'm familiar with my abilities but at the same
• 33:05
  time my honor and my value derives from the my ender, from
• 33:10
  the people who. You know, are in the place to
• 33:14
  decide that for me. I can't really decide it for
• 33:17
  myself. Yeah, I've seen it go both ways
• 33:22
  where some groups whose structure kind of kind of a it's
• 33:33
  very fadish, you know what I mean?
• 33:36
  Like where new members come in with no worth, they are worth
• 33:41
  less. Which has again, an arch even
• 33:46
  angle taken to it. It's we don't know anything
• 33:49
  about you per se. You have to prove your worth.
• 33:51
  And I've taken a bit of an angle with that with our group.
• 33:54
  It's like, I'm not saying you're worthless to your face.
• 33:56
  I'm not going to say like, oh, you ain't worth the damn, you
• 33:58
  know what I mean? But what I'm saying or what
• 34:00
  we're saying is that in order for us to have Frith, in order
• 34:05
  for us to establish that obligation, that bond the the,
• 34:09
  the things that come with. You know, being tied in that
• 34:13
  Frith web, in order for that to happen, you're going to have to
• 34:17
  see me. You're going to have to know
• 34:19
  that I can be of worth to you, and I'm going to need to know
• 34:22
  that you're of worth to to me and the rest of us.
• 34:23
  We have to see this happen. But there needs to be that time
• 34:26
  of that, that period of time to prove yourself and to prove
• 34:30
  myself and to prove ourselves. Because without that we're just,
• 34:35
  you know, going down through a checklist saying do you do this,
• 34:37
  do you like that? Would you?
• 34:39
  Oh cool. You're you're you're in you're
• 34:41
  you're part of the tribe. Now you're you know doesn't work
• 34:46
  that way in this, in the, in the dramatic sense of of of how the
• 34:50
  tribe functions. You know we're obligated to one
• 34:52
  another. We rely on one another.
• 34:54
  And you can't establish that without actually doing things
• 34:58
  and and proving it. Yeah, and like I said you you
• 35:01
  have to ignore abstraction wherever you can and focus on
• 35:05
  concrete. You know, real world, tangible
• 35:09
  things. And like with the Worthing
• 35:11
  thing, you know, an important thing.
• 35:14
  I always say to remember there is those of us who have been in
• 35:17
  Heathenry for a while. If they're going to join a group
• 35:20
  and someone says you need to worth yourself, prove your
• 35:22
  worth, you know you are without worth until it is proven.
• 35:26
  If if you kind of built up that worldview, you understand, you
• 35:31
  go, well yeah, of course obviously you know you don't.
• 35:34
  You don't know my. My worth, other than, you know,
• 35:37
  what I might have said or a few other people might have said, of
• 35:40
  course I've got to prove it. But people who are new to
• 35:43
  heathen reinstill kind of coming out of that modern American over
• 35:46
  culture, that's a really shocking thing to hear, you
• 35:50
  know, because again, you know your worth is given to you by
• 35:54
  yourself and you know, anyone questioning your worth is this
• 35:59
  super offensive, super derogatory thing that you know
• 36:03
  is is very kind of taboo. So that's one of the things with
• 36:08
  that kind of language I always am careful with.
• 36:10
  If if they're new, I ask them, you know like how long have you
• 36:13
  been in this, what is your experience?
• 36:16
  And you know if they're saying, well you know I'm I'm fairly
• 36:19
  new, then I I still use those concepts and even that wordage
• 36:25
  but I'm always kind of extra careful to explain the whys and
• 36:29
  the hows and behind it. Like I said, if you're new.
• 36:35
  When you hear those words it they can be pretty off cutting,
• 36:39
  you know, like. Yeah, and it might.
• 36:41
  It might deter them from wanting to pursue it anymore.
• 36:44
  Because damn, what am I getting myself into here, You know what
• 36:47
  I mean? What a bunch of snobby elitists.
• 36:50
  You know, they snobs. They're elitists.
• 36:53
  You know, they're gatekeepers like, well, well, yes and no.
• 36:58
  I mean, yeah, I mean, we're keeping the gate to our inner.
• 37:02
  That's important. We're not saying the gate is
• 37:04
  locked forever. But you have to prove that you
• 37:09
  are the kind of person we want to let through that gate 1st,
• 37:11
  and that's not a bad thing. No.
• 37:17
  So let's go into a little bit about what this episode is
• 37:21
  intended for. I love talking with someone who
• 37:23
  gets this stuff and we can have meaningful conversation about
• 37:29
  it, so. You know some of the things that
• 37:31
  we're talking about here are are are real.
• 37:34
  You know it's it's more of the it's beyond Heathenry one O 1
• 37:37
  type stuff. You know what I mean?
• 37:38
  Like this is refining world views and and really getting
• 37:41
  into the meat and potatoes of it.
• 37:44
  So with ancestry, you know I know you you've probably seen me
• 37:47
  say dozens of times, hundreds of times.
• 37:49
  If you know if you've been watching for the last couple
• 37:51
  years the podcast is right. The gods continue to notice you
• 37:55
  may your ancestors. Smile upon you.
• 37:58
  That's like how I sign off every episode, but also just the the
• 38:01
  importance of ancestor veneration.
• 38:05
  You had a you had a a purpose behind talking about ancestry
• 38:10
  specifically. And I don't want to put words in
• 38:13
  your mouth, so I'm just going to, if you don't mind, let you
• 38:17
  verbalize that to to everybody today.
• 38:19
  Like what's what are we going to be talking about with regards to
• 38:22
  ancestry? Well, the question I came to you
• 38:25
  with because, you know, I was interested on your perspective
• 38:28
  and you know, we'll be talking about that is when it comes to
• 38:30
  ancestry and ancestral veneration, you know, how far
• 38:36
  back do you go? Because this is something that
• 38:40
  if you ask that question on a heathen group, even season
• 38:45
  heathens, the answer is going to run across the board.
• 38:49
  You'll see people say only the ancestors I've personally known
• 38:53
  in life. Or, you know, this legal code
• 38:57
  says 6 to 9 generations of ancestors have to be recognized.
• 39:01
  So that's what I do. Or people who say, you know, all
• 39:04
  of them all the way back, forever known or unknown, all
• 39:09
  the way back to either, you know, ask an EMBLA or, you know,
• 39:13
  I've seen people, you know, say, well, part of my veneration is
• 39:17
  is the first tape that stood up. Right.
• 39:19
  So, you know, it's that question.
• 39:21
  Yeah, I mean, I. It's not my practice, but I've
• 39:24
  seen it. It's one of those questions of
• 39:28
  when we say ancestor veneration and venerating our ancestors,
• 39:32
  what is what do we mean kind of precisely by that?
• 39:36
  Because it's it's a super, you know, once again if you're new
• 39:41
  and you say which of my ancestors do I venerate?
• 39:44
  One person says the last three generations and one of them says
• 39:48
  all the way back to, you know, your.
• 39:52
  The earliest Homo sapien ancestor.
• 39:55
  Those are radically different practices.
• 39:57
  To tell a person this is what we do.
• 40:01
  Yeah. And that's a great point and
• 40:03
  it's one that I've made on other topics as well.
• 40:05
  You know, you get 10 Heathens in a room and ask the same
• 40:09
  question, you're probably going to get 10 different answers
• 40:12
  about it. Yeah, you know, exactly.
• 40:16
  And so that that's the thing where you know.
• 40:22
  For me, you know the the way that I lean into ancestry
• 40:29
  veneration are are relatively close, but I don't forget or
• 40:33
  neglect the ones that are a bit further removed.
• 40:37
  Because sometimes you know you find people like myself who have
• 40:43
  gone down like ancestry.com or or 23 me or whatever these other
• 40:47
  sites and and try to find more about your ancestry.
• 40:51
  Right. Like who was my grandmother's
• 40:53
  grandmother's grandmother and this and that.
• 40:55
  Right. And try to go as far back as you
• 40:56
  can through genealogical records and and stuff and it can be
• 41:00
  really, really cool. Some of the things you find, you
• 41:04
  know, like I know that one of my ancestors is John Marshall.
• 41:10
  You know the the the first supreme justice of the United
• 41:12
  States. I know one of my ancestors is
• 41:14
  Francis Scott Key. Do I?
• 41:19
  Do I light candles for the for for John and and and Francis.
• 41:23
  I've never done that. You know what I mean?
• 41:25
  They don't to me they did you know they they it's pretty cool.
• 41:29
  Like they they they have a really they have a very strong.
• 41:32
  They have very strong Efrain, you know what I mean?
• 41:35
  Because of the things that they've done.
• 41:37
  But are they so close to me in in in my practices that I
• 41:43
  venerate them I I say I don't but it's not to say that I
• 41:47
  should or you know what I mean like.
• 41:50
  I just don't. My ancestral veneration is is a
• 41:56
  bit more closer to my heart and to the to the ancestors that
• 42:01
  I've either known or who have become known to me through,
• 42:06
  whether it was parents or grandparents right throughout my
• 42:08
  life that have told me stories about them, right.
• 42:11
  I didn't know my grandfather on my dad's side very well because
• 42:14
  he died when I was very young. He died the year my sister was
• 42:16
  born. I was like 3.
• 42:18
  You know what I mean? So I I have no memory of him,
• 42:20
  but I know that he fought against the Germans during World
• 42:25
  War Two and he, you know, was sunk in a U boat off the coast
• 42:28
  of North Carolina. So I think that those types of
• 42:31
  things are are very heroic and very you know, important things
• 42:35
  to remember. And so in my ancestor Veneration
• 42:37
  whether even though I didn't immediately know him he's close
• 42:40
  enough in my ancestral line. He's my father's father to.
• 42:46
  Make a point of Speaking of his, of his deeds and remembering
• 42:50
  him, commemorating him in that way.
• 42:52
  That's just like, as an example. There's also, I think, a place
• 42:57
  to to to, to to bring up of Not all of your ancestors are worth
• 43:01
  your veneration, at least not to me.
• 43:04
  Some people's ancestors, myself, and I mean all of us, you know,
• 43:07
  people have done some really shitty things and we don't want
• 43:10
  to remember that. We don't want to commemorate
• 43:13
  them. For the terrible things that
• 43:15
  they've done, we'd rather than be forgotten.
• 43:18
  And that's pretty powerful stuff because again it goes into the
• 43:20
  the the worldview of of the ancient Germanic Heathens was
• 43:25
  to, you know, you know that your name, your reputation never dies
• 43:30
  of those who have earned it. But if you've done really
• 43:33
  nefarious things, if you were needing, if you're outlawed, if
• 43:35
  you were gone outside of this the the the sanctity that the
• 43:39
  protection of the of the inner. You were.
• 43:42
  You were just assumed as dead, you know, and and gone,
• 43:46
  forgotten. Worse than that, you become less
• 43:48
  than human. You know you are.
• 43:51
  You know your troll. You're you've been stripped of
• 43:54
  your humanity through being stripped of that familial
• 43:57
  relationship. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:01
  So I'm kind of in the, I I think I kind of lean more towards, you
• 44:07
  know, I don't necessarily neglect my long.
• 44:11
  Distant ancestors. I just don't have a very active
• 44:16
  place of venerating them as much as I do those who have been more
• 44:22
  involved in my life. And why would that be?
• 44:26
  Right? Why would you not light a candle
• 44:30
  or or have a ceremony or do something to remember the first
• 44:33
  Supreme Justice of the United States?
• 44:35
  Well, damn, Like that's a pretty important guy.
• 44:37
  Why wouldn't you? I went around like none of my
• 44:40
  none of the people that are related to him through or to me
• 44:44
  through them through him. Right.
• 44:45
  None of our ancestors are alive anymore to to know much about
• 44:50
  him other than what they are written in the history books and
• 44:53
  and that have been passed down through the annals of history.
• 44:55
  You know what I mean? The story, but there's no
• 44:58
  relationship. Yeah, and I and I see this with
• 45:01
  you probably have to like. I see this with people who are
• 45:03
  like, well, my, I'm the descendant of Ragnar.
• 45:06
  Or I'm a descendent of this king or I'm a descendent of this you
• 45:09
  know great here I'm like that was a long ass time ago.
• 45:12
  Do you think that they know you you know I don't yeah I mean
• 45:20
  that may be so maybe you do have you know lineage that that is
• 45:25
  documented that far back. I'm not saying you know that
• 45:28
  you're wrong if that's what you are are are claiming and if you
• 45:32
  have the documentation prove it. But what is it really what does
• 45:35
  that really prove. So you're you know so you're
• 45:38
  king so and so's you know great great great, great, great great
• 45:41
  great great nephew. He had no idea about you what
• 45:45
  You know what I mean? So for me it's it's like it's
• 45:48
  cool but why would you have that as part of your your hearth
• 45:52
  cult. Yeah, that that luck has changed
• 45:55
  hands so many times at this point that it is a radically
• 45:59
  different luck than the one that he passed down when he died.
• 46:05
  You know, so again, you have this story, but you don't have
• 46:08
  much of a relationship. And part of that too is going
• 46:11
  back to that obsession with titles.
• 46:14
  You know, that validation through these very lofty,
• 46:18
  abstract titles. I'm not just anyone.
• 46:20
  I'm the eight times to remove grandson of Ragnar Lothbrok.
• 46:24
  So therefore, you know, listen to me.
• 46:29
  That was different back then, too, you know, because that
• 46:31
  actually meant something. You know, if you received an
• 46:34
  audience with an important person that was kind of like
• 46:39
  your way in, like who is who is who is Jesse?
• 46:42
  Oh, well, Jesse. He is the son of so and so who
• 46:45
  was the son of so and so who did this thing?
• 46:47
  That or the other. Ah okay, you know that.
• 46:51
  Like it meant something like there was you would be announced
• 46:54
  as such. You'd be known as such.
• 46:57
  I mean. But like you say, the luck is it
• 47:00
  has changed so much over the years like so the luck that that
• 47:04
  was passed down through, through, through or log, you
• 47:07
  know that that's the waters are a bit murkier now than they were
• 47:12
  back then, you know what I mean? Because there's been so much
• 47:14
  other things that have been added to the well that have
• 47:17
  changed the structure of that luck that was passed.
• 47:21
  Yeah, that layer is so deep now that you know it's.
• 47:25
  It's not really the ones you're drawing from, yeah.
• 47:29
  It's still part of it. It's in there, but you know it's
• 47:34
  deep as opposed to that surface levels of ore LA that you're
• 47:40
  drawing. Freshly from What about you?
• 47:43
  You asked me, I answered. What about you?
• 47:45
  What? What is here?
• 47:47
  What's your stance on it? So similar, similar.
• 47:51
  The ones I focus most on are the ones that are more recent and
• 47:56
  you know, either I've known or. You know, I know through stories
• 48:01
  of the people who knew them. So like my great grandfather, I
• 48:04
  never met him. But, you know, he was very close
• 48:07
  to my father. And so, you know, I've seen
• 48:11
  images of him. I know stories about his life.
• 48:15
  You know, I have items that he had when he was alive that you
• 48:19
  know are mine now. I have.
• 48:22
  I literally have a cast iron cooking pot that he poked out
• 48:26
  of. That I could for my family out
• 48:28
  of now. You know these things.
• 48:31
  You know he has a place. But you know once a good example
• 48:36
  would be I can on one side I can as reliably as these records can
• 48:40
  be traced. You know it goes back to like a
• 48:44
  longobard ancestor named Gundall.
• 48:47
  You know I that's so many generations ago do I need to
• 48:53
  have. You know something on my altar
• 48:56
  for gun dolls I don't the most like that in my practice
• 49:02
  reflects is I make sure it it practice factors into my
• 49:07
  practice with Trika, you know, because of the story of how she
• 49:13
  helped the long Gobbard people and their names and things like
• 49:17
  that. So you know, little things in
• 49:18
  her spot like that, but not on the altar, like to the altar.
• 49:23
  Has pictures of people that I knew or knew, stories, items
• 49:28
  that have been handed down to me, things like that.
• 49:31
  You know, people who's, you know, The luck I have reflects
• 49:36
  the luck that was passed down by the people.
• 49:39
  Now that's not to say that I just, you know, I don't want it
• 49:42
  to sound like these are the only ones involved in this because
• 49:47
  that can be a misconception people get.
• 49:49
  When you say something like that, like, well, I've mainly
• 49:52
  been erased. This number of generations, you
• 49:55
  know, three to five ish. Of the ones I knew, you know
• 49:59
  because the older ones I believe are still very much sentient.
• 50:06
  You know they exist in however you want to view the afterlife.
• 50:10
  You know they have a presence and they have power.
• 50:13
  You know they still exist. It's just the fact that they're
• 50:18
  probably not super worried about me on a personal level.
• 50:22
  You know, it's kind of in the same way that, you know, my
• 50:25
  mother who's past is a spirit who's probably pretty concerned
• 50:29
  with my wellbeing and seeing me succeed because, you know, I was
• 50:34
  her son. We were very close.
• 50:36
  And even then I have to, you know, keep in mind I have three
• 50:39
  siblings. She looks after them well and
• 50:42
  you know, she's not omnipotent and omnipresent.
• 50:45
  You can only be in one place at one time, so.
• 50:49
  You know, while I get a lot of attention from that spirit and
• 50:52
  then, you know, on to my grandparents, it's the same
• 50:54
  thing. You know, they're close and I'm
• 50:57
  sure they look over me and my practice a lot, but they still
• 51:01
  have other grandchildren. They still have living children
• 51:04
  that I'm sure they have to keep an eye on maintaining the
• 51:08
  family. And the farther you get back,
• 51:11
  you know, it's this wider and wider pool of people for them to
• 51:15
  to worry about and look over. You know, it becomes less a case
• 51:20
  of they're going to be worried about you and more they're going
• 51:23
  to be worried about this branch of the family or you know, this
• 51:27
  half of the family or you know the entire family.
• 51:32
  And that's when I started just referring to them.
• 51:33
  You know, like this the Outfar and the DC are, you know, I
• 51:36
  don't know your names and I probably don't have a super
• 51:39
  personal relationship with, but I recognize that you are still
• 51:44
  part a part of the family you would sit.
• 51:47
  For sentient and a part of the kinfolk and that are doing
• 51:52
  things to help, it may not be immediately relevant to me every
• 51:57
  time. You know, you might not be
• 51:58
  making sure my air conditioner doesn't break down at an
• 52:02
  inopportune time, but you are making sure, say, that my branch
• 52:06
  of the family is avoiding some bit of ill luck that might have
• 52:10
  happened, or you know, we are moving in the right direction.
• 52:16
  I liken that kind of how many of us especially like in
• 52:20
  reconstruction we'll talk about how the gods are not super
• 52:23
  worried about us on a personal level.
• 52:25
  You know, in Betray is making the crops grow for everyone in
• 52:31
  my area, not just me, you know, But I still benefit from that
• 52:35
  gift, you know, it's important that I reciprocate that gift and
• 52:40
  you know, value that that relationship.
• 52:45
  You know, once ancestors get so far back, it becomes a very
• 52:47
  similar situation where they're not helping me maybe as an
• 52:52
  individual, but they are still giving gifts to the family that
• 52:56
  I am reaping benefits from. So while my focus and like like
• 53:03
  I said, the altar is focused mainly on more recent ancestors,
• 53:09
  anytime I'm verbalizing that like say in prayer or offerings.
• 53:15
  I do, you know, make it clear that you know to my ancestors
• 53:19
  and you know to the out bar, the DC or my ancestors.
• 53:23
  I know and don't know both because you know, I believe I'm
• 53:27
  reciprocating that relationship, even if it's not a super
• 53:30
  personal one. And also because you know the
• 53:34
  dead are powerful, the dead are dangerous sometimes and if they
• 53:38
  are listening it, I really don't want to be the one that makes
• 53:43
  them feel slighted. You know, I'm leaving them out
• 53:47
  kind of a a Maleficent type situation where you know this is
• 53:52
  the day the five times the new great grandfather decides to to
• 53:56
  check in on things that make sure that I'm bringing honor the
• 54:00
  family and he feels left out and all of a sudden he he's dipping
• 54:06
  out of that that reciprocal relationship so.
• 54:10
  Like I said, I will focus on your recent ancestors that you
• 54:13
  have this relationship with that you know, but also recognize
• 54:18
  that there are these deeper relationships going on that you
• 54:23
  may not immediately recognize, but which are still valid.
• 54:27
  Because, you know, even when they're dead, they don't leave
• 54:30
  the family. I mean, not to them personally
• 54:33
  anymore, but they're still there.
• 54:38
  Absolutely. That's a great.
• 54:40
  That's a great summary and an explanation of it.
• 54:42
  So thanks for sharing. I I was wondering something too
• 54:46
  and I wanted to bring this up during this episode because this
• 54:50
  is a this is a aspect of things I think that a lot of people can
• 54:53
  relate to and that is on the on the on the topic of fostering
• 55:00
  adoption, right. Because Ancestry when we talk
• 55:04
  about it the first thing that people think of are our.
• 55:07
  Blood kin, the people who we are related to through blood that
• 55:12
  have sired, you know, descendants where and now we're
• 55:16
  here. But not everybody has that
• 55:20
  connection. The people who they are closest
• 55:23
  to in their life are not related to them through blood.
• 55:27
  They are related to them through fostering adoption, that sort of
• 55:31
  thing. So their luck.
• 55:36
  You know, like that that family's luck.
• 55:37
  Does it get passed down to the adopted or the fostered and then
• 55:42
  so on and so forth. And what are your thoughts on
• 55:45
  that? So my answer to that is, like
• 55:49
  you said, this is something that comes up a lot because it's not
• 55:52
  an uncommon question in our age. And you know, it's something
• 55:56
  that probably as long as there's been human things like adopted
• 56:01
  of existence, we're a social species and things happen.
• 56:05
  So my answer to that is usually when did the adoption take
• 56:09
  place? So if someone says, you know,
• 56:13
  well I was adopted as a baby, you know, my adoptive parents
• 56:19
  are the ones who gave me my name, who raised me, who take
• 56:22
  care of me from birth or even a very young age.
• 56:25
  You know, I don't even remember my biological parents.
• 56:28
  These are the only parents I've ever had.
• 56:30
  Well, my answer to that is usually.
• 56:33
  Focus on on the ones who adopted you because you are, by the
• 56:38
  Germanic worldview, part of that family, as much as anyone would
• 56:43
  be, that was born into it. You know once you're adopted in
• 56:46
  it's it's like when you graft the limb of a tree onto another
• 56:51
  tree. You know it might have
• 56:52
  originated somewhere else, but it it is now part of that tree,
• 56:55
  it lives or dies with that tree as opposed.
• 56:59
  You know, if the tree you took it from and grafted it off of
• 57:02
  dies. That doesn't hurt that branch.
• 57:04
  It's now part of this tree that it's grafted onto, you know, So
• 57:09
  if it's the case where they're very young and that's the case,
• 57:12
  I always say just I would just and it's a personal thing.
• 57:16
  Some people are still going to want that and you know I don't
• 57:19
  think harm in that. But now if you stay older and
• 57:24
  you built those relationships maybe with the family that you
• 57:29
  know pre adopted family. You've already created those
• 57:32
  ties. You're still using the name that
• 57:35
  they gave you, which is a powerful thing.
• 57:37
  And you know, being named is a is a very serious thing.
• 57:44
  That's usually when I get into the fact, you know, I would
• 57:47
  recommend both, especially like you're an adult or, you know,
• 57:51
  sometimes in a tribal setting saying, well, we're going to
• 57:55
  adopt each other as siblings. Well, you know you're not.
• 57:59
  Removing yourself from that original family, you're just
• 58:02
  kind of embracing each other's tinship.
• 58:05
  So now, yes, you have to recognize those ancestral ties
• 58:10
  or relations too, but you don't lose the ones that you had
• 58:14
  already. So yeah, younger kids, I say
• 58:20
  focus on your adoption. Even in my family, I, my first
• 58:24
  child is technically my stepdaughter.
• 58:27
  You know, I just called her my daughter, but we had an adoption
• 58:29
  ceremony, a heathen adoption ceremony, you know, where I I
• 58:34
  gave her her name and gifts and welcomed her into the family and
• 58:38
  things like that. And but she was already old
• 58:42
  enough and she still knows her biological father.
• 58:45
  So when we talked about this, you know, I make it clear, you
• 58:47
  know, those are still your ancestors and it's important to
• 58:50
  acknowledge him and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 58:53
  But my family and my ancestors are just as much.
• 58:56
  Your ancestors now, you know, my grandmother and the booms that
• 59:00
  she gave me and the luck she gave me are yours as much as
• 59:04
  they are mine or any of my other biological children.
• 59:08
  Yeah. But also doesn't mean that
• 59:10
  you're removed from your biological father's side because
• 59:14
  you'll know him and those people and, you know, you were given
• 59:17
  your first name by them and that, you know, that's still
• 59:21
  powered. Yeah, no, 100%.
• 59:25
  I mean my wife was adopted at birth and still knows her
• 59:29
  biological mother, her biological father.
• 59:31
  We we don't talk about him much because he was a villain and you
• 59:36
  know what I mean? And we so we don't really.
• 59:39
  And it is it's crazy. She's not she's not a practicing
• 59:41
  heathen. She's fully supports what I do.
• 59:44
  She has her own way of of the views of the world.
• 59:47
  But she's not a heathen in the in the technical sense of the
• 59:50
  word, right? She doesn't practice the same
• 59:52
  things I do. However, anytime that this her
• 59:59
  sperm donor is what she calls him, she doesn't even mention
• 1:00:02
  his name, like doesn't even want to speak his name.
• 1:00:06
  She doesn't claim the surname that she was tied to through
• 1:00:10
  his, you know, lineage, right. She's like I am not a that don't
• 1:00:15
  never call me that sort of thing.
• 1:00:17
  She has a very, very strong stance on I am so and so because
• 1:00:21
  of who has raised me and who has taken me in and and and all
• 1:00:26
  that. So I think, you know, that's
• 1:00:28
  that's definitely been a thing for like you say, you know
• 1:00:30
  pretty much since humanity, right.
• 1:00:32
  Things happen and fostering was a big part of the Germanic
• 1:00:37
  culture too. And I I know that, you know once
• 1:00:40
  you were part of that family you you received the luck and the
• 1:00:44
  benefits of that family. Same as anybody else who was
• 1:00:49
  blood kin, you know, and. Died by that family.
• 1:00:53
  Yep. And we we do our tribe.
• 1:00:55
  This is in a similar way like we talked earlier about like the
• 1:00:58
  Worthing thing and all that once was once worth is established
• 1:01:03
  and that that that period of time has lapsed.
• 1:01:06
  We we enter into the The Oath Web to pledge our our, our
• 1:01:12
  kinship to one another. I don't call people.
• 1:01:15
  Of you know outside of my blood kin.
• 1:01:18
  Like I don't call another man brother or another woman sister
• 1:01:22
  or anything like that until there has been that that that
• 1:01:27
  that that period of time to to prove our worth to one another.
• 1:01:29
  And then once we've established that we we understand things
• 1:01:35
  similarly like we then we can comfortably say all right now
• 1:01:38
  you are my brother. We're not blood related but you
• 1:01:41
  are kin to me now and with that comes.
• 1:01:45
  The obligation and the responsibility and the love and
• 1:01:47
  the and the backing and the support that family offers and
• 1:01:52
  then provides. Yeah, the very heavy thing.
• 1:01:55
  That's why, you know, it's that beaten into the ground of
• 1:01:58
  people, you know, getting on a Facebook group and I brothers,
• 1:02:02
  you know, stole and like you. Know.
• 1:02:04
  We're not brothers and that that's kind of goes back to that
• 1:02:08
  over culture thing again of telling somebody no, we're not
• 1:02:10
  brothers and once they're not in the world view.
• 1:02:14
  Can be a very shocking you know off putting thing to them if you
• 1:02:20
  don't get in there like no you have to understand saying that
• 1:02:24
  thing also carries with it this mountain of duties and
• 1:02:28
  obligations and you know I say you're my brother that means
• 1:02:33
  that you know I my life is your life.
• 1:02:36
  I even if I think you've done something like this is dumb this
• 1:02:40
  is really dumb but I'm here to help.
• 1:02:45
  Because my brother and what else can I do?
• 1:02:48
  Because your problem is my problem, even if I think it's a
• 1:02:53
  dump problem. Yeah, I mean I've had
• 1:02:56
  experiences throughout like I was telling you before how this
• 1:03:00
  the structure of the tribe or the the how the tribe is evolved
• 1:03:03
  and in time, right. It's not the same as it was when
• 1:03:05
  it was initial, you know, initially created or started
• 1:03:08
  formed. It's not the same tribe then as
• 1:03:11
  it is now. However, you know, even though
• 1:03:16
  even though people that were in the tribe are not part of the
• 1:03:19
  tribe, it's not because they've done anything to harm themselves
• 1:03:25
  or ourselves on the luck level, right?
• 1:03:28
  They haven't done anything to be considered needing.
• 1:03:32
  So I still call them brother or whatever, right?
• 1:03:34
  Hey, you may not come to tribal affairs, you're not oath bound,
• 1:03:38
  but we're not oath bound to one another.
• 1:03:41
  But you've also never done anything.
• 1:03:43
  I know that if I called upon this person, they would answer
• 1:03:46
  if I needed something, they would do the best that they
• 1:03:49
  could to provide, you know what I mean or answer that call.
• 1:03:56
  But stuff like that again, is, is, is like, it's all very cool
• 1:03:59
  sounding. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:04:00
  Like, oh, you know, I answered the call.
• 1:04:02
  Call on me brother, and I will answer.
• 1:04:04
  Do you really mean that? Are you really like if if if
• 1:04:07
  this person calls you at 2:00 in the morning, are you going to
• 1:04:09
  answer that phone call? If not then they're not your
• 1:04:13
  brother, man. Like that's not family.
• 1:04:15
  It's literally that kind of a thickness that it's it's that
• 1:04:18
  how that's how thick the threads are.
• 1:04:20
  That's how strong the bonds are. And I I've talked about this
• 1:04:23
  before and only how you feel like when it comes to Frith and
• 1:04:25
  the and the bonds that get established there's there's like
• 1:04:27
  layers and levels of it, right. Like the Frith bond that I have
• 1:04:30
  with my wife is stronger than the one that I have with my my
• 1:04:33
  tribal brothers. You know what I mean?
• 1:04:36
  Because we've we've done and and gone through things more than
• 1:04:39
  I've gone through with them. Her and I, you know, so that the
• 1:04:44
  the Frith that her and I have is not the same as the Frith that
• 1:04:47
  my tribe tribesmen and I share. You know what I mean?
• 1:04:53
  Does that does that make sense? For you know I have relatives
• 1:05:00
  that are you know distant and or even you know just we don't get
• 1:05:06
  along for whatever reason and. You know, at the most I go well.
• 1:05:11
  Chris demands that I will never actively oppose like I will.
• 1:05:17
  I will never try to hurt you or if somebody shows up trying to
• 1:05:21
  hurt you, I am not going to help them in any way, shape or form,
• 1:05:26
  but pass that as best if we just avoid each other.
• 1:05:30
  You know, I I I never be your enemy.
• 1:05:33
  But I also don't really want you to come over for dinner.
• 1:05:38
  Yeah, and you that that's a layer of Frith.
• 1:05:40
  You know those obligations as opposed you know, like you said,
• 1:05:43
  my wife, you know, wait, we were joking about the other day.
• 1:05:47
  He was like, well, I mean if if you killed somebody, I've gotta
• 1:05:50
  help you hide the body, right? Because I I use that level of I
• 1:05:56
  I might be complaining the whole time.
• 1:05:59
  This is dumb. Why did you do this?
• 1:06:01
  Oh my God. Why baby, right.
• 1:06:05
  I'm still going to do it because the level of Chris we share
• 1:06:09
  demands that you know or you know the classic taking a bullet
• 1:06:13
  like well there's no there's no doubt there I go, well my life
• 1:06:18
  is your life so of course you know I would have to put it on
• 1:06:21
  the line for any chance to protect yours.
• 1:06:24
  Whereas the more distant or unrelate you know unappreciated
• 1:06:29
  relations. You know it's like I don't know
• 1:06:32
  that I need to die for you but I'm.
• 1:06:35
  Not going to help anybody. Yeah.
• 1:06:41
  All those layers in between. Exactly.
• 1:06:44
  It's it's not so, like you said, carved in stone earlier, things
• 1:06:49
  aren't so carved in stone like there are layers, there are
• 1:06:51
  levels, there are nuances, there are variances, right.
• 1:06:53
  So it's it's not so not so cut and dry absolutes I guess is
• 1:07:01
  what I'm trying to say. It's not one or the other.
• 1:07:03
  It's. Sometimes it's one, sometimes
• 1:07:05
  it's somewhere else in between, sometimes it's another shade of
• 1:07:07
  that part that's in between. There's, again, there's, there's
• 1:07:12
  layers to it all. And like, you know, when I'm
• 1:07:15
  discussing and teaching my kids, even if I don't use those words,
• 1:07:19
  you know, I make it clear to them, you know, like I am your
• 1:07:22
  father, you were my children. And that means that I have
• 1:07:27
  obligations. You will never go hungry, you
• 1:07:30
  know, My food will always be your food.
• 1:07:33
  And if you fall on hard times, my house will always be your
• 1:07:36
  house, you know, anything you say or do that you think I may
• 1:07:40
  not approve of with exceptions of like a really drastic
• 1:07:44
  terrible thing are they are nothing against crit, you know.
• 1:07:52
  So if you came to me and said dad I'm gay or dad I I want to
• 1:07:54
  be this religion or I want to do something you may not approve
• 1:08:00
  of, you know. You know, not like, oh, I did
• 1:08:04
  something terrible, you know, nightmaresly bad.
• 1:08:07
  Like, you know, I wanted. I want to do this job, and I
• 1:08:10
  know you don't prove of it or think it's a good idea, but I'm
• 1:08:12
  doing it anyway. Well, once again, those are all
• 1:08:17
  from the road compared to frit. That means, you know, like I
• 1:08:20
  said, you will never have to worry about those things because
• 1:08:24
  as your father, this is my obligation in fifth you that I
• 1:08:29
  will always be in your corner. Even if I wish I wasn't, you
• 1:08:35
  know, in that particular corner for some reason, like, well,
• 1:08:39
  this is how you really shouldn't have moved into that house.
• 1:08:42
  I told you was more than a fixer upper.
• 1:08:44
  But I am your father, and that means I am here with tools and
• 1:08:49
  money and you know, I am here no matter what.
• 1:08:54
  And that's that's something that, you know, I've seen that
• 1:08:58
  several times as my kids got older, really hit home with
• 1:09:01
  them. For like, I can, you know, Dad
• 1:09:05
  may not like this, but I will never feel in fear of losing my
• 1:09:12
  relationship with him or losing my late family, because that's
• 1:09:19
  just not accomplished. You know, beyond fail of that.
• 1:09:25
  Yeah, yeah. That first bond is strong when
• 1:09:29
  and. And I don't know if you've ever
• 1:09:32
  encountered this, but I got to thinking about situations like
• 1:09:35
  we're talking ancestry here, about how close we we go back or
• 1:09:41
  how far we go back, but situations where because again,
• 1:09:48
  you know, religion is, is the big divider for a lot of
• 1:09:52
  families, you know, and family members who are not.
• 1:10:00
  They don't practice the same things that that we do.
• 1:10:03
  You know what I mean? So let's say you know you have
• 1:10:06
  you know your grandmother or whoever was a, you know was a
• 1:10:08
  devout Christian and and and that's you know, she died and
• 1:10:11
  there was all of the the funerary rites, all of the
• 1:10:13
  things leading throughout her life and up to her death were
• 1:10:19
  framed around the Christian worldview of things.
• 1:10:22
  Does that does that person does that ancestor still carry the
• 1:10:25
  same reverence veterans. To to heathens these days as
• 1:10:32
  let's say someone else that is you know was was maybe not as
• 1:10:35
  much so does the does the religious does the religiosity
• 1:10:41
  transfer through into the experience of ancestor
• 1:10:45
  veneration? I personally don't think so
• 1:10:49
  because I think at that point it becomes obsolete.
• 1:10:53
  Like that was how you lived your life.
• 1:10:56
  That was how you did things in the in the physical.
• 1:10:58
  Experience of of you as a person now that that part of your life
• 1:11:04
  has expired and you have transitioned into the next stage
• 1:11:06
  of life. It's not, yeah, I don't know.
• 1:11:10
  And I just say I got to thinking about and I was wondering where
• 1:11:12
  if you had any thoughts about that sort of thing or.
• 1:11:17
  Well, first of all, big UPG warning Which?
• 1:11:21
  Yeah, yeah, it. Was that's listen to the show
• 1:11:24
  for a while. Probably is familiar with that
• 1:11:26
  phrase, so I think I'm safe throwing that out.
• 1:11:29
  But So what I always tell people is no, well I'm no, I don't
• 1:11:35
  really factor it into it because my way of thinking is you know,
• 1:11:40
  I'm a heathen. I believe in heathen worldview
• 1:11:44
  and even afterlife you know I believe a multi part soul things
• 1:11:48
  like this. So in my mind my ancestor, even
• 1:11:54
  if they weren't about Christian, well once they died.
• 1:11:58
  Their soul breaks up in some of its multiple parts.
• 1:12:01
  You know they begin the journey to the afterlife however you
• 1:12:04
  want to. The road to hell is how I
• 1:12:06
  usually refer to it. You know they leave behind the
• 1:12:11
  leak, the body. All these changes happen and you
• 1:12:15
  know they learn things. They learn from the dead,
• 1:12:19
  different truths, both known and unknown to us.
• 1:12:22
  And you know they there are dramatic change.
• 1:12:26
  So I always tell people like well you know in the same way
• 1:12:28
  that my Christian relatives don't you know acknowledge the
• 1:12:33
  fact that you know they think I have a multi part soul and part
• 1:12:37
  of that will be going into you know, the road to hell and
• 1:12:42
  dwelling here and this that you know.
• 1:12:44
  I also don't overly worry about you know trying to make other
• 1:12:50
  world views and religious fit to mine.
• 1:12:53
  I just don't want. For what I believe happens after
• 1:12:56
  you die, because I believe I I fully recognize.
• 1:13:00
  Who knows, maybe I am wrong, but this is the way I practice.
• 1:13:05
  So, you know, after they die, they are into things that
• 1:13:13
  they're changed through death, through this gym health.
• 1:13:17
  So, you know, yes, Grandma might have been a Baptist, but, you
• 1:13:21
  know, I also believe now that. In the mound or soul separated
• 1:13:27
  in certain ways, and it's gone to join the other dead, spoken
• 1:13:31
  to them and learn things and return that changed.
• 1:13:36
  So that that really doesn't strike me as that big of a
• 1:13:40
  factor in the scheme of things. I think that's helpful for a lot
• 1:13:45
  of people to hear two heathens discussing this topic, because I
• 1:13:50
  don't know about you, but I've been approached about.
• 1:13:55
  This topic, but not just the specific topic, but the things
• 1:13:58
  surrounding this this topic, you know, some people don't know who
• 1:14:01
  their ancestors are because their their life has been, you
• 1:14:05
  know, structured around, you know, being very separated from
• 1:14:09
  the family unit. You know what I mean.
• 1:14:11
  And so when they come into this path and they hear things about
• 1:14:15
  ancestral veneration and the importance of it, they feel
• 1:14:18
  lost. They feel.
• 1:14:21
  They don't have nowhere. They have like no baseline
• 1:14:23
  nowhere to start like well what do I do how I don't know who
• 1:14:25
  they are. You know what I mean and or or
• 1:14:29
  this person who I do know. You know they were they were
• 1:14:32
  they weren't the greatest they did this thing that or the other
• 1:14:35
  Why would I want to venerate that why I don't want to you
• 1:14:38
  know commemorate their memory and and and stuff and and do
• 1:14:41
  anything that would bring you know bring honor to the family
• 1:14:45
  or or whatever. So there's a lot of again here
• 1:14:50
  we go into the. The Gray areas, you know, the
• 1:14:54
  the things that happened. And I think, I think ultimately
• 1:14:57
  what it comes down to is it goes back to hearth cult.
• 1:15:01
  You know, if you're trying to find a source, if you're trying
• 1:15:04
  to find books, if you're trying to find you know one specific
• 1:15:07
  thing that's going to give you the answer, good luck on this.
• 1:15:11
  Like you've got to establish your own customs, your own
• 1:15:14
  traditions. Yeah, like I said, if you find
• 1:15:18
  that one magical source that lays everything out, but be sure
• 1:15:21
  to send me a link. Please let me know.
• 1:15:26
  To have some clarity, but yeah, 100%.
• 1:15:31
  And you know that other one, yeah, I get that a lot.
• 1:15:34
  You know, I don't, I don't know my ancestry at all and there's
• 1:15:38
  not really any way for me to learn it.
• 1:15:41
  You know, it's you say this is an important part of he and re
• 1:15:45
  you know, is this now. Just something I have to miss
• 1:15:47
  out on and in that case I usually go back to, you know,
• 1:15:51
  for my beliefs. It the out far and the DCR where
• 1:15:55
  you have these ancestors and they are concerned about you and
• 1:15:59
  your wellbeing. It's just not in a personal
• 1:16:02
  sense. You know they are worried about
• 1:16:05
  the greater body of their descendant.
• 1:16:08
  So you know you can start with your out far and easier and then
• 1:16:13
  you know you might have, you know you're from there, your
• 1:16:16
  ground. Zero.
• 1:16:17
  You know you're you're the beginning and it's time for you
• 1:16:22
  to leave something for your descendants to remember and
• 1:16:26
  cherish and honor. And you know you can still, for
• 1:16:29
  your hearth call and your ancestral call, have those out
• 1:16:33
  far and easier that you know are there.
• 1:16:36
  They're still part of your orlay.
• 1:16:38
  You know they are part of you. That can't be taken away from
• 1:16:42
  you, just just the knowledge of them.
• 1:16:45
  But. Without a name and without a
• 1:16:48
  face, you can still use these concepts to have that and then
• 1:16:53
  begin working on finding ways to introduce those names and
• 1:16:57
  concepts. Because you know, maybe, you
• 1:17:00
  know, I said you're the first one and it's your job to start
• 1:17:06
  it so that the people that come after you will have people that
• 1:17:09
  they know and honor and remember and keeping that kind of in the
• 1:17:14
  back of your mind all the time. Maybe you have chosen family
• 1:17:18
  that winds up, you know, becoming family through adoption
• 1:17:22
  and, you know, fostering and as they pass on, you know, because
• 1:17:26
  none of us get any younger and unless you know, unless you're
• 1:17:31
  one of the early ones to go, you're going to lose people
• 1:17:33
  sooner or later. You know, you can be adding
• 1:17:36
  those people on to those Walters and into that first call and
• 1:17:41
  growing it that way. You know, it's it's not one of
• 1:17:44
  those things where you either have it or you don't.
• 1:17:48
  It's once again Gray and there's levels and layers We all just
• 1:17:54
  have to kind of, you know, we're living in the aftermath of a
• 1:17:57
  conversion and a dramatic shift in worldview.
• 1:18:00
  We have to kind of start where we are, whether it's easy and
• 1:18:04
  convenient or not. Yeah, and here's it.
• 1:18:08
  Like this is another thing I was thinking too.
• 1:18:10
  Probably some. Definitely UPG, but maybe some
• 1:18:15
  some, some hints or some glimmers of this happening.
• 1:18:21
  How many times have we encountered ourselves, but also
• 1:18:24
  seen throughout the stories throughout the the sagas of of,
• 1:18:29
  you know, people being visited in dreams or or having these
• 1:18:33
  like unconscious visions that involve deceased ancestors?
• 1:18:40
  You know, coming to them in in this sort of way.
• 1:18:43
  And again, it probably leans more into like the UPG side of
• 1:18:48
  things. But I mean, there's enough
• 1:18:51
  examples, I think, that we can deduce that again because of how
• 1:18:56
  powerful the dead are, that they are not bound by one or two
• 1:19:01
  forms of communication. They can reach us, we can reach
• 1:19:04
  them. There are ways to feel
• 1:19:08
  connected, you know? And it's a thing.
• 1:19:12
  It's definitely a thing. Oh.
• 1:19:14
  Yeah, so percent with you there because like you said, the dead
• 1:19:18
  are powerful and you know, it's, I always say people I don't
• 1:19:22
  believe in the dead is like a concept or you know, a societal
• 1:19:26
  construct or young and archetype.
• 1:19:29
  I believe the dead are, you know, present and powerful and
• 1:19:34
  exists, you know are sentient, individualized beings.
• 1:19:39
  So you know, and powerful. So they're bound to communicate
• 1:19:44
  with me through a variety of ways.
• 1:19:46
  If that's dreams, you know, like I said a, there's you would be
• 1:19:51
  hard pressed to find a culture that does not have some belief
• 1:19:54
  that the dead communicate your dreams that that's one of those
• 1:19:57
  things goes, you know, it's present in the Germanic context,
• 1:20:01
  but that's practically human thing.
• 1:20:03
  You know idea that the dead communicate through dreams and
• 1:20:08
  through all states. You know, so yeah, looking to
• 1:20:13
  those, those hints and feelings of an ancestor that might be
• 1:20:18
  wanting to reach out to you to bring you into the bowl.
• 1:20:21
  I said that's a like we said, that's a lot more UPG.
• 1:20:25
  But I also totally agree with it.
• 1:20:28
  And you know, there are ways to do that work with that, you
• 1:20:31
  know, as long as it's something you're comfortable with and open
• 1:20:34
  to. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:20:39
  Yeah. I'm a you know I'm I'm I'm of
• 1:20:43
  that opinion where we're kind of limited.
• 1:20:46
  They're not. Yes, there's there are
• 1:20:47
  limitations. You know what I mean?
• 1:20:48
  But like you're saying like the the, the, the channels of which
• 1:20:51
  they're capable of of reaching us are are less limited than the
• 1:20:56
  ones that we currently have. Right.
• 1:20:59
  I can't get on a zoom. I can't get on a live stream or
• 1:21:01
  whatever and talk to my grandmother like I can talk to
• 1:21:04
  you or other people, right. But that doesn't mean I can't.
• 1:21:08
  Still talk to her or my father who recently passed her, you
• 1:21:10
  know, that sort of thing. It's can be done.
• 1:21:14
  And yeah, it's it's it's definitely a thing.
• 1:21:19
  That they they are powerful, individualized, sentient beings
• 1:21:25
  that have greater or lesser interest in being present in our
• 1:21:31
  lives and in our wellbeing. And the more we interact with
• 1:21:34
  them, I feel that the more their vested interest becomes active.
• 1:21:40
  You know, like you can write a letter or or call or text or
• 1:21:43
  some, you know, whatever. People living people, like I say
• 1:21:46
  like every so often. And so it's cool, nice to hear
• 1:21:48
  from you. But the more you interact, the
• 1:21:51
  more you're involved, the more you become intertwined.
• 1:21:55
  Then the more interesting things become that there's more of an
• 1:21:58
  investment in that relationship. So.
• 1:22:02
  If you find that there's a relationship that from a from a
• 1:22:05
  departed ancestor that you're either they are reaching out to
• 1:22:11
  you or you feel drawn to them is start that and then continue it.
• 1:22:15
  Don't just let it be a passing thought.
• 1:22:17
  Feed it, you know? The more you do it, the more
• 1:22:21
  it's going to become an active component to your your hearth
• 1:22:24
  cult and the things that go on around your life and those that
• 1:22:29
  are with you and around you. At least that's the way I see
• 1:22:31
  it. Absolutely.
• 1:22:33
  Like I tell people, you know, don't imagine them as just like,
• 1:22:38
  you know some abstract thought phantom.
• 1:22:41
  You know that things like that, think of them still as a as a
• 1:22:45
  flesh and blood person, maybe one that you can't physically
• 1:22:49
  see most of the time, but still that person who has thoughts and
• 1:22:54
  opinions and things like that so.
• 1:22:57
  You know, yes. Communicate with them.
• 1:22:59
  Give them gifts. Give them, you know, a place of
• 1:23:02
  honor, you know, make a plate for them at dinner sometimes,
• 1:23:05
  you know, invite them over for dinner.
• 1:23:07
  You know, in your own way. This may be a very, yeah, this
• 1:23:13
  may be a very modern twist to it all.
• 1:23:15
  But in the same vein of what you're describing, like I know
• 1:23:18
  my wife has done this with like people that she's lost over the
• 1:23:23
  years. Whether they've been ancestral
• 1:23:25
  to her or or or through like fostering an adoption scenarios,
• 1:23:30
  I have become kin to her no less.
• 1:23:33
  Sending them like a text message, writing them an e-mail,
• 1:23:36
  doing things like that that are the physical, you know,
• 1:23:40
  expression of communicating. You're not going to necessarily
• 1:23:43
  get a response back through those means.
• 1:23:45
  However, the process of doing that can be cathartic and it can
• 1:23:51
  also. I think at least in, you know,
• 1:23:53
  we're modern heathens, right? Like we living in these times,
• 1:23:55
  these things exist. They may not have been a part of
• 1:23:58
  the the world view of the concepts of of Germanic Heathens
• 1:24:01
  at the time but if they had phones, if they had emails, why
• 1:24:04
  wouldn't it be? I I think of things like that if
• 1:24:06
  the if the technology existed, would it could it have been part
• 1:24:11
  of the the process you know and and why can't it be now?
• 1:24:17
  Absolutely. I mean, like I said, we have to
• 1:24:18
  build the House of today. On the foundation of what's been
• 1:24:23
  left to us half and the House of the date has a cell phone and it
• 1:24:28
  has an e-mail and things like that.
• 1:24:30
  So we use. But yeah, I said it's those even
• 1:24:36
  little things help. Writing notes, yeah.
• 1:24:42
  You know, it's good stuff. When it turned up cuff, I found
• 1:24:44
  myself a print. It doesn't.
• 1:24:47
  There you go. I appreciate that this dialogue,
• 1:24:54
  this has been really this has been really helpful for me.
• 1:24:57
  Specifically I love being able to talk to people that have a a
• 1:25:02
  good strong you know mind of of this and the concept surrounding
• 1:25:07
  dramatic evenry specifically. A lot of lot of the content that
• 1:25:10
  I have here especially here recently have have gotten off on
• 1:25:14
  other paths and have ventured off the branches are reaching
• 1:25:16
  out a little bit more which I think is great too.
• 1:25:21
  You know and nothing nothing to say bad about it.
• 1:25:24
  But I love being able to talk about stuff that is close to my
• 1:25:27
  heart and and and share it with people who have questions you
• 1:25:32
  know and and and maybe thinking of things like this themselves
• 1:25:34
  and now it gives them hopefully the opportunity to explore it
• 1:25:39
  more themselves and find it how it applies for their for their
• 1:25:41
  lives. It's not that we're saying this
• 1:25:43
  is how you have to do it. In order to achieve the certain
• 1:25:45
  result, this is just again two heathens from different
• 1:25:48
  spectrums, different parts of the country, different stages of
• 1:25:51
  their journeys, talking and sharing about things that that
• 1:25:56
  can hopefully help you know, be a be a be a guide.
• 1:26:00
  Yeah, but you know, the more resources you can put out there,
• 1:26:03
  the better. Because you know, a lot of
• 1:26:05
  people once again do not have a community, do not have someone
• 1:26:08
  with years of experience they can ask so.
• 1:26:12
  They go looking for YouTube videos, they go looking for
• 1:26:14
  podcast. I don't know how many times I've
• 1:26:17
  had people say, you know, OK, the books are great, but you
• 1:26:20
  know, I learned better through like videos and podcasts and
• 1:26:25
  things like that. Do you have those you can
• 1:26:27
  recommend? Like, Yep, I have a list.
• 1:26:29
  You know, I these are the ones that maybe avoid because I don't
• 1:26:33
  really agree with some of the stuff that they're saying or you
• 1:26:36
  know? It's questionable for a variety
• 1:26:40
  of ways. And you know, you've got these
• 1:26:42
  people, they're putting out content that even if I don't
• 1:26:45
  agree with every single thing they say, they are seem to be
• 1:26:49
  stand up evil and their information is mostly pretty
• 1:26:52
  good. So yeah, give them a listen,
• 1:26:55
  Think about what they say. If you have questions, you know,
• 1:26:58
  fire in my way if you need to or you know, whoever you want to.
• 1:27:03
  But yeah, finding podcast videos like this is a huge.
• 1:27:07
  Important resource on top, especially for modern practice.
• 1:27:12
  Yeah, yeah. Like I'm saying, it's it's, it's
• 1:27:13
  one of the rooms being added to this, this House of that's being
• 1:27:16
  built, right. We're using that analogy a lot.
• 1:27:20
  And I love it. I love it.
• 1:27:22
  It's an important part of that house because I it's going to
• 1:27:28
  conversational things like this. A lot of people just learn
• 1:27:32
  better than they do a very dry. Academic, scholarly book.
• 1:27:37
  You know, they might, they might read it, but actually being able
• 1:27:43
  to grasp an idea in a way that they can bring it into
• 1:27:48
  themselves and their practice. A lot of times conversational
• 1:27:53
  stuff like podcast, video, things like that does a better
• 1:27:57
  job just on a human level. The books are beyond important,
• 1:28:01
  you know. I cannot recommend stuff.
• 1:28:04
  But if you don't have a community where you can get
• 1:28:07
  those, also human interaction stuff like this is just the next
• 1:28:13
  step. Because again, we're humans.
• 1:28:16
  There's some things to just work better for you.
• 1:28:19
  Yeah, well, I'm definitely glad that we got a chance to rap
• 1:28:23
  about this. This particular topic and others
• 1:28:27
  I I think it was a great episode.
• 1:28:28
  I hope people that are listening and watching to this now are are
• 1:28:33
  finding some some good and useful tips in in in in finding
• 1:28:39
  a way their own you know to to expand on it.
• 1:28:42
  So I want to say thank you Bradley for coming on the coming
• 1:28:45
  on the podcast today and sharing your thoughts and you know of
• 1:28:49
  course asking the question to begin with.
• 1:28:52
  As I said I love it it's it's you know.
• 1:28:55
  Without people like yourself that are asking questions or
• 1:28:57
  that are looking for others opinions, the podcast wouldn't
• 1:29:01
  be what it is. So I appreciate the the
• 1:29:05
  contribution. Yeah, it's been great.
• 1:29:08
  Like I said it, after hours and hours, obviously of listing
• 1:29:12
  after a couple of years, it's kind of a little fun and a
• 1:29:15
  little surreal to actually be on it.
• 1:29:19
  It's going to be a little weird listening to an episode with my
• 1:29:22
  voice on it, yeah. Well I I don't want to say that
• 1:29:27
  this is you know the the first or last but I definitely the
• 1:29:31
  first but hopefully not the last.
• 1:29:32
  I I with with with stuff like this I I leave the the guests
• 1:29:36
  with an open invitation that if hey something else comes up and
• 1:29:39
  you want to talk about it again please hit me up.
• 1:29:42
  You know would love to have you back on I think after what we've
• 1:29:45
  talked about today I I would definitely love to have you back
• 1:29:48
  on for future episodes so if you're ever inclined and want
• 1:29:51
  to. Chat for a bit more and put put
• 1:29:53
  something out here. I would love to have you back.
• 1:29:56
  Absolutely. Like I said, these things like
• 1:29:59
  podcasts, these videos, they are an invaluable resource for
• 1:30:04
  getting good information into the hands of people that really
• 1:30:10
  need it. You know, like I said,
• 1:30:11
  especially people that don't have community that they can
• 1:30:15
  either find or built yet. So it's important.
• 1:30:18
  It is. I cannot overstate how important
• 1:30:21
  it is that we're out here too. Yeah yeah I agree I'm I'm I'm
• 1:30:27
  glad that I have the opportunity to do this with folks like you
• 1:30:32
  that that share in that interest and that desire to cuz you know
• 1:30:35
  get let's face it like I'm sure you've encountered especially
• 1:30:37
  over for as long as you've been practicing he then you know
• 1:30:40
  there's there's plenty of people out here that that see knowledge
• 1:30:44
  and and things as this sort of you know.
• 1:30:47
  Treasure that needs to be locked away in an ivory tower and never
• 1:30:50
  accessible and without extreme means of of trying to achieve it
• 1:30:57
  and all that's like, come on dude, like lighten up a little
• 1:31:00
  bit, you know? Or or weaponizing it.
• 1:31:03
  So yeah. Oh, you don't?
• 1:31:05
  You don't know that you're you're trash.
• 1:31:09
  You don't. How am I going to explain it to
• 1:31:12
  you? Am I going to give you
• 1:31:13
  resources? No, I'm not going to do that
• 1:31:15
  either. I'm just going to.
• 1:31:17
  I'm just going to use it to stroke my ego, which might be
• 1:31:22
  fun, but three generations from now, when we're all in the mound
• 1:31:26
  and it's our descendants doing this, will that have helped
• 1:31:29
  anything really, in the scheme of things, You know, will that
• 1:31:34
  will our descendants be coming into, will they be coming into a
• 1:31:37
  better? Or more rounded evenry yeah by.
• 1:31:42
  Us cuz like. In that way it's.
• 1:31:44
  People like that that are saying what they're saying, like
• 1:31:47
  they're doing what they're doing and almost like trying to make
• 1:31:50
  people feel like they're guilting people for not knowing
• 1:31:52
  as much as they know, and in the same breath or in the next
• 1:31:56
  sentence are going, they're complaining about why things
• 1:32:00
  aren't. More like what they want them to
• 1:32:03
  be, you know? Or that people aren't adopting
• 1:32:05
  these world. They're not, they're not
• 1:32:06
  educated enough. Like, well, then you're part of
• 1:32:08
  the problem, damn it. Like, help us out, Help us help
• 1:32:11
  one another here, you know? Like it's that like we talked
• 1:32:16
  about several times, you know, people who are just fresh coming
• 1:32:20
  into the worldview, who aren't going to be familiar with
• 1:32:23
  terminology and, you know, mental concept, things like
• 1:32:26
  that. And you're just.
• 1:32:29
  Absolutely. Shooting them now and making
• 1:32:33
  them go, oh, this is awful. I do not want to be part of
• 1:32:36
  this. If you acted and I'm not saying
• 1:32:40
  you have to like water it down or overly sugarcoated or
• 1:32:46
  anything like that, you know, we shouldn't be.
• 1:32:48
  We could be very firm, like on the brother and sister.
• 1:32:51
  They know I'm not your brother, but we also.
• 1:32:56
  Would do better to explain these things and recognize that people
• 1:33:00
  can't just flip a switch and change world view.
• 1:33:04
  It's it's a slow and often painful process.
• 1:33:09
  And a lot of people, you know, they face that and they go, am I
• 1:33:13
  going to go through all this misery and money and trouble
• 1:33:16
  just just for people that act like this to me?
• 1:33:19
  I don't want that and I can't blame them.
• 1:33:23
  Yeah, I mean, I can't either. You know, it's it's no wonder
• 1:33:25
  that we don't have more, you know, heathens that take this
• 1:33:29
  seriously to the degree, you know, everybody's on their own
• 1:33:32
  journey, everybody wants to do it their way or or whatever.
• 1:33:35
  But again, some of the core fundamental aspects of it, it's
• 1:33:38
  no wonder that, you know, people that want a community have a
• 1:33:43
  hard time finding one, Yeah. I mean, absolutely.
• 1:33:47
  And it's unfortunate, but I think the best thing we can do
• 1:33:51
  is recognizing it. And then just facing it head on.
• 1:33:55
  For what it is, do stuff like this, man.
• 1:33:58
  You know, just get out here and and talk about it and and
• 1:34:01
  explain like, hey, you know the the bad apples don't don't
• 1:34:05
  represent the entire bushel. Yeah.
• 1:34:08
  And you know recognizing sometimes you're going to be in
• 1:34:12
  a good position for that stuff like you know, I am very open
• 1:34:16
  about being England whether it's jewelry or just you know.
• 1:34:22
  Saying stuff conversationally, people like, oh, are you going
• 1:34:25
  to church? But no, I actually, I'm a a
• 1:34:27
  dramatic Pagan and N Pagan. Explain what that means.
• 1:34:31
  Or like I'll wear shirt with imagery on it like millionaires
• 1:34:35
  or you know, runestone, things like that.
• 1:34:38
  Because I recognize that I'm in a better place than a lot of
• 1:34:43
  people are to be a resource like that.
• 1:34:45
  You know, I'm I'm a white sis male with an accepting family.
• 1:34:50
  That works for a company that is not religiously intolerant and
• 1:34:54
  who is physically capable of defending himself if necessary.
• 1:34:59
  I'm in a good position to kind of be out and open and say, hey,
• 1:35:03
  I'm doing a thing, would you be interested and being sick.
• 1:35:09
  Whereas I also recognize there are lots of people, you know,
• 1:35:13
  when I get a lot is a lot of women being afraid to wear
• 1:35:16
  beyond ears out in public. Because once again.
• 1:35:19
  You don't know about, you know, someone who's going to take that
• 1:35:23
  the wrong way of a guy and assault you.
• 1:35:26
  Or you know, people whose families aren't accepting and
• 1:35:30
  they have to keep that private, but they still want community,
• 1:35:35
  but they can't look for it as easily as someone like I can.
• 1:35:41
  So it's also an important part of recognizing when you got some
• 1:35:45
  privilege and what you can do. And helping out those people who
• 1:35:49
  they don't have those same options to build that.
• 1:35:55
  Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with you there.
• 1:35:58
  You know, not everybody has the same things going on in their
• 1:36:02
  lives. And I can definitely understand
• 1:36:04
  and appreciate why certain people are more private about
• 1:36:08
  it, especially with how accessible basic information is
• 1:36:14
  to people. Social media being a thing, it
• 1:36:19
  has its great perks. I mean, obviously stuff like
• 1:36:21
  this happens where we can connect and then there's a lot
• 1:36:25
  of other aspects of it that that make it toxic and terrible for
• 1:36:28
  people and they have to hide behind anonymity or or use
• 1:36:35
  monikers and things to disguise themselves out of safety.
• 1:36:40
  So it's it's it's wild, man. Like it's it's it's it's crazy.
• 1:36:44
  That we live in now in the conditions that.
• 1:36:47
  I do a it's just about every month.
• 1:36:50
  I miss one month recently because both of my sons are born
• 1:36:52
  in July and that kind of took up my weekends.
• 1:36:55
  But normally I do an open park move where, you know, it's just,
• 1:36:59
  I've got food. I'm going to do a small ritual.
• 1:37:02
  It's open. You're welcome to come.
• 1:37:04
  I put it in groups, and I did have a guy come recently.
• 1:37:09
  That, you know, he very much had to keep it on the download
• 1:37:12
  because the people who own, like, own the company he worked
• 1:37:15
  for, were very religious. And he knew that if he, say,
• 1:37:19
  wore a mule near that there would be very serious
• 1:37:23
  repercussions for it. So, you know, it's like I can't
• 1:37:26
  put on Facebook, you know, that I'm here or doing this and I
• 1:37:30
  can't wear this or that. But, you know, I'm really glad
• 1:37:33
  that this is a thing and I'm really glad to be here.
• 1:37:36
  It's great. Recognizing the idea that that
• 1:37:40
  happens more than I would like. Yeah.
• 1:37:44
  So then we're going to wrap this up here shortly, but you're
• 1:37:47
  talking really quick, quick about having monthly park moves.
• 1:37:50
  Is this something that you advertise anywhere or that you
• 1:37:54
  open publicly in case people that are listening and watching
• 1:37:58
  here are in the general vicinity where you are Northeast Oklahoma
• 1:38:03
  or the neighboring? Surrounding areas that would
• 1:38:06
  want to venture out is it, is it is that something that if people
• 1:38:10
  followed you or anywhere or or anything like that that they
• 1:38:13
  could know about? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:15
  Like I said, I'll usually make a Facebook event and it's, it's
• 1:38:19
  open so people can go in without, you know, having to
• 1:38:23
  know me and they can invite other people.
• 1:38:25
  And I mean a lot of the Facebook groups that are kind of
• 1:38:28
  regional, you know, for. Takens or Heathens in Oklahoma
• 1:38:32
  and Missouri and Arkansas, because I'll do it in Joplin,
• 1:38:35
  MO, which is pretty close to where I live, but it's one of
• 1:38:39
  the larger towns verging on cities that's also kind of
• 1:38:44
  central, like it's a 30 minute drive for me, but it's also
• 1:38:49
  about that for a lot of other people.
• 1:38:51
  So it's kind of that nice middle ground.
• 1:38:54
  But yeah, so you can either look me up on, you know, Facebook or
• 1:38:59
  anything else. Brad Shelby should pull it up
• 1:39:03
  and you can message me or hit me up about that one of regional
• 1:39:08
  Facebook groups or you can even probably just look up like
• 1:39:12
  Joplin MO even and cuz that's you know I make sure to use
• 1:39:18
  keywords for where it's at even parking things like that and I
• 1:39:23
  didn't do that but. Yeah, it's usually one Saturday
• 1:39:26
  each month and it's totally open.
• 1:39:28
  I provide drinks and food and usually some games outside for
• 1:39:33
  the kids. It's I do it at a park, so
• 1:39:35
  there's a bathroom and playground for the kids, and
• 1:39:38
  it's a covered shelter and just kind of let people get together
• 1:39:42
  and see the other people in their community and start
• 1:39:45
  building a space to baseball. That's great.
• 1:39:48
  I'll if it's all right with you then since you have an active.
• 1:39:53
  Presence on on this Facebook and mainly I'll if it's cool with
• 1:39:56
  you I'll I'll link it in the description for people and show
• 1:39:59
  notes for people that are on that platform as well and then
• 1:40:02
  they can see what you do and and know about those events whenever
• 1:40:06
  you whenever you post them. Cool.
• 1:40:10
  I'll do that then. So I'm going to stop the
• 1:40:13
  recording here let everybody else know that you know we're
• 1:40:16
  we're done but if you want to just hang out for a minute after
• 1:40:18
  I stop the recording I'll I'll I'll sign off with you
• 1:40:21
  separately. But any parting words?
• 1:40:24
  Anything else besides what we've gone over the last hour and a
• 1:40:26
  half ish or whatever long? Anything else you wanted to say
• 1:40:28
  to people before we wrap this up?
• 1:40:30
  Just said, you know, it's been a blast and honor being on a
• 1:40:34
  podcast that, like I said, I've been a big fan of for a long
• 1:40:36
  time and just keep getting out there and and doing it as best
• 1:40:40
  you can and building those bonds, reading those really,
• 1:40:45
  really dry long. Books.
• 1:40:49
  There's something to be said about them there, you know?
• 1:40:51
  We're not where we are, just speaking for the two of us.
• 1:40:54
  I mean like we're not where we are for having neglected those,
• 1:40:58
  those dry pieces of literature. They they do have value.
• 1:41:04
  They are. Worth.
• 1:41:06
  It All right, Brad. Well, thank you so much.
• 1:41:08
  And for everybody listening and watching today, thank you all so
• 1:41:10
  much for tuning in. Don't forget to check the
• 1:41:13
  description and show notes of this podcast for the link tree
• 1:41:16
  link that has all the ways that you can support this podcast.
• 1:41:19
  Follow me on all the socials. You can become a patron on
• 1:41:22
  Patreon. You can buy merchandise.
• 1:41:24
  It's all down there in the link tree link, so do be sure to
• 1:41:27
  check it out. And until we see each other
• 1:41:29
  again. And in the next episode, if the
• 1:41:31
  gods continue to notice you, may your ancestors smile upon you.