Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Sam DeMase - Author of Power Mood | The Career Coach With 800K Followers Says Hard Work Won't Save You

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Sam DeMase - Author of Power Mood | The Career Coach With 800K Followers Says Hard Work Won't Save You · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  Four and five workers are staying in jobs they hate because they feel that the market is too risky to switch.
• 0:05
  What's going on?
• 0:06
  The market does feel risky right now because the market is risky.
• 0:10
  There are fewer opportunities right now, even though there's a lot of qualified people.
• 0:14
  But what I will say is when you know your strengths, you know your value proposition and what you bring to the table, there are opportunities even in this tight market.
• 0:22
  Today's guest is Sam DeMaze, also known as your career bestie.
• 0:25
  She's career expert at ZipRecruiter.
• 0:27
  In this conversation, she explores professional growth, finding the right path, and navigating the modern job market.
• 0:33
  She shares practical advice on getting promoted, advocating for yourself, and building a career that fits the life you want.
• 0:40
  How do people get into jobs where they're not using their strengths?
• 0:43
  I think the correct way to look at it is to identify your ideal lifestyle first and then pick a career that fits that.
• 0:49
  What is some of the most hurtful or worst career advice that people still believe?
• 0:55
  I think one is definitely hard work pays off.
• 0:58
  I disagree with that.
• 1:00
  It will only pay off when you can say it in a succinct way and promote it to the powers that be.
• 1:09
  MyFitnessPal is a success story partner.
• 1:12
  Now, everybody wants more energy.
• 1:14
  Everybody wants better sleep.
• 1:16
  Everybody wants to feel sharper during the day, to not hit that wall in the afternoon where your brain just checks out.
• 1:22
  And people try a lot of things to get there.
• 1:23
  So new routines, new supplements, better sleep habits, more coffee, less coffee, all of the above.
• 1:29
  And some of that stuff works, but the single biggest lever you have for how you feel on any given day is what you eat.
• 1:36
  It's not the most exciting answer,
• 1:38
  Nobody's making a viral reel about eating lunch, but food is a foundation, right?
• 1:41
  Your energy, your sleep, your weight, your recovery, how you perform at work, how you feel when you get home.
• 1:47
  It's the one input that touches everything else.
• 1:50
  Now, the problem is that most people have no idea what they're actually eating.
• 1:53
  They have a general sense.
• 1:54
  They can say, I eat pretty healthy, okay, but how much protein are you getting?
• 1:59
  And how does that break down across your day?
• 2:01
  Are you eating enough in the morning?
• 2:02
  Are you stacking everything at night?
• 2:04
  Those details matter a lot.
• 2:06
  And you can't answer those questions without logging what you eat and looking at the data.
• 2:10
  And that's why I use the MyFitnessPal app, because you log what you eat and it shows you exactly what's going on.
• 2:16
  Your macros, for example, that's just your proteins, your carbs, your fats.
• 2:19
  those are broken down by grams.
• 2:21
  And on premium, it breaks those numbers down by meals.
• 2:23
  So you're not just seeing one number for the day, you're seeing what breakfast looks like versus lunch versus dinner, and that changes things.
• 2:29
  Because your body doesn't run on daily averages, it runs on what you give it right now.
• 2:34
  The food analysis, another great feature, it shows you patterns across the week too.
• 2:38
  Where things are consistent, where they start to drift, and you're gonna notice how well you eat impacts your energy and why you wanna stay consistent, and when you don't, why you start to feel like you're hitting walls
• 2:49
  in the afternoon.
• 2:50
  Now the food logging, this is where a lot of people think it's going to be a whole thing.
• 2:53
  It's not.
• 2:54
  For example, I can say what I ate out loud.
• 2:57
  There's a voice logging feature and it's done, or I can scan a barcode of something I ate two seconds.
• 3:02
  There's also a meal scan where I just point my camera at a plate and the app captures exactly what I ate and all the macronutrients.
• 3:09
  And MyFitnessPal has the largest food database out there.
• 3:13
  So whatever I'm eating is already in it.
• 3:15
  And it remembers what I eat regularly.
• 3:17
  Also, it connects with over 40 fitness apps and wearables.
• 3:20
  So everything goes into one spot, all of my health, wellness, and nutrition.
• 3:25
  So if you have been trying to figure out why your energy dips in the afternoon, or why you're not sleeping as well as you used to, or why you just feel off and you can't put a finger on it, look at your food first, before you buy another supplement, or you try some other hack.
• 3:38
  The answer is usually in nutrition.
• 3:41
  And this is the easiest way that I found to actually see what's going into your body and track it and pay attention to it and improve it.
• 3:47
  So do yourself a favor.
• 3:49
  Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code Scott.
• 3:53
  That's S-C-O-T-T, all uppercase.
• 3:56
  That gives you 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.
• 3:59
  One more time, that is podcast.myfitnesspal.com.
• 4:02
  Code Scott.
• 4:03
  That's giving you 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.
• 4:12
  Sam, four and five workers are staying in jobs they hate because they feel that the market is too risky to switch.
• 4:18
  What's going on?
• 4:20
  The market does feel risky right now because the market is risky.
• 4:24
  There are fewer opportunities right now, even though there's a lot of qualified people.
• 4:28
  But what I will say is when you know your strengths, you know your value proposition and what you bring to the table, there are opportunities even in this tight market.
• 4:37
  But that's so sad, scary.
• 4:40
  Like the majority of people that are in careers, is that the truth?
• 4:44
  They're just not happy?
• 4:46
  I think right now when you're not happy in your career, that doesn't mean you're not happy in the rest of your life.
• 4:52
  So Gen Z and millennials, I think, have really ushered in a big cultural shift where maybe in previous generations, your job was your entire happiness, your entire being, your entire life.
• 5:03
  For us, your job is one small part of a bigger, beautiful life.
• 5:07
  So for me, and I've been in that scenario where I've hated my job, but I loved other aspects of my life.
• 5:13
  So I think right now we're seeing people leaning into these other things and diversifying their careers and their lifestyles to find that happiness.
• 5:21
  Okay, so I would have thought that if I don't love my career, that means that I'm stressed about the thing that supports the rest of my life.
• 5:31
  So I agree with you.
• 5:33
  You shouldn't just think a career is your whole life and everything and the end all.
• 5:38
  But if the thing that makes you money is a tumultuous part of your lived experience, for example, how do you...
• 5:49
  Let's think Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
• 5:52
  Like if the thing that pays the rent and puts food on the table, you feel like is in jeopardy.
• 5:58
  How?
• 5:58
  How do you enjoy the rest of your life?
• 6:00
  That's my question because I agree that you should.
• 6:03
  I feel like I wouldn't if I wasn't sure if I was going to make rent next month.
• 6:08
  I think it's really challenging.
• 6:09
  I think we're in a really challenging time for a lot of people.
• 6:13
  And I think when you think about being unhappy in a role, I think it starts to become, how can I use my talents?
• 6:19
  How can I use my superpowers in this role in ways that maybe I haven't before?
• 6:25
  So I think it becomes about you taking your career in your hands and saying, okay, I don't like this work.
• 6:32
  I don't like my boss, whatever it may be, identify those things.
• 6:35
  Identify what you do like about it, which can be hard to do, but sit down, identify some things you do like about it and carve out pathways for you to work on those things to be able to utilize your strengths.
• 6:46
  So a lot of times when people are unhappy in the work, it's because they're not using their strengths.
• 6:50
  So figure out whether that's getting into another job, whether that's moving laterally at your current company, figure that out so you can be using your strengths.
• 6:58
  Because when you're not using your strengths is when you're drained and when you're miserable.
• 7:02
  How do people get into jobs where they're not using their strengths?
• 7:05
  Is it they fall into them and it's back to that stat?
• 7:09
  They're scared to switch?
• 7:10
  So they're just doing something they're not good at?
• 7:12
  I think there's some old advice.
• 7:15
  Find your dream job, which is outdated.
• 7:17
  I think the correct way to look at it is to identify your ideal lifestyle first and then pick a career that fits that.
• 7:24
  But I don't think a lot of people are approaching it that way.
• 7:27
  Well, I agree because I don't think most parents would give that advice.
• 7:30
  And that's where we get most of our career advice from.
• 7:32
  100%.
• 7:32
  Parents, outdated playbook.
• 7:34
  Yes.
• 7:35
  I mean, even, you know, myself, I was in a job.
• 7:39
  I was...
• 7:40
  Moving up, doing quite well.
• 7:43
  But this is what's tough.
• 7:45
  And this created a lot of anxiety in my life.
• 7:49
  Even though I was following the playbook that my parents set out for me that worked well for them.
• 7:55
  My dad's first job, he could buy his first house cash, right?
• 7:59
  He could have a family at a much younger age because he wasn't worried about living paycheck to paycheck.
• 8:03
  He had a pension, which doesn't really exist in the same way that he used to.
• 8:07
  And for people who have no idea what a pension is, because maybe some people don't, my dad...
• 8:14
  He worked for the government in Canada where I'm from, and he would have, if he worked so many, 30, 35 years, 70% of his five best year salary as a pension for the rest of his life.
• 8:25
  So for math, if he made 100 grand, he makes 70 grand at 55 until he retired.
• 8:31
  So that level of stability is...
• 8:34
  that level of stability worked with the playbook that he subscribed to.
• 8:39
  I realized that playbook doesn't exist anymore.
• 8:41
  No one offers a pension outside of government.
• 8:44
  Maybe private companies don't.
• 8:46
  So then I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to bet on myself.
• 8:48
  I'm going to try and be an entrepreneur.
• 8:49
  I'm going to try and do, because a whole other can of worms and incredibly stressful as well.
• 8:53
  So I didn't see how I could, um,
• 8:57
  navigate my career successfully and live the same life that him and my mom did.
• 9:03
  So I think a lot of people feel that disparity.
• 9:06
  They're like, I'm doing the same thing my parents did.
• 9:08
  And I don't have the same life that my parents had.
• 9:10
  So how does somebody navigate a career successfully?
• 9:14
  What's your, I need an optimistic message to that group of people.
• 9:18
  I think there's a lot of them.
• 9:19
  Yeah.
• 9:19
  And I think it's important, number one, to acknowledge that we're living in a different economic reality than our parents.
• 9:25
  And sometimes we find it hard to have those discussions with the older generations because they're like, why don't you have a house at this time?
• 9:31
  I know my mom recently was texting me an article like, what's going on?
• 9:34
  even have a house yet?
• 9:35
  What's happening?
• 9:36
  And I don't have time to get into this whole conversation with her.
• 9:39
  So it's exactly our reality, right?
• 9:41
  It's like this, we live in a totally different reality.
• 9:44
  Company loyalty doesn't provide what it used to.
• 9:47
  You can't afford a house the same way your parents could.
• 9:49
  Pensions don't exist, right?
• 9:51
  401k match if you're lucky.
• 9:54
  So first things first is to acknowledge the reality that we're in.
• 9:58
  But in terms of some optimistic pieces of advice, build
• 10:02
  As a mosaic, build your career as a portfolio.
• 10:05
  The ladder is dead.
• 10:06
  So bet on your skills.
• 10:08
  Don't bet on the ladder.
• 10:08
  No, but explain that.
• 10:09
  Sorry, so explain.
• 10:10
  Ladder is dead.
• 10:11
  What is that?
• 10:12
  That's what I'm describing.
• 10:13
  What my dad did, what my mom did when she went back to work after having me and my brother.
• 10:17
  It's a ladder.
• 10:19
  So the traditional ladder where you would work at one company for, you know, 10 years, 20 years and continue moving up internally from coordinator to manager to director to VP to C-suite, that trajectory no longer, number one, no longer exists.
• 10:34
  Number two, doesn't afford the same financial gains that it used to.
• 10:39
  It's not about how long you were there.
• 10:40
  It's about the impact that you made.
• 10:42
  What did you transform?
• 10:43
  What did you build?
• 10:43
  What did you fix?
• 10:45
  That is important.
• 10:46
  So if you can tell a story of impact, that's what goes on your resume.
• 10:49
  That's what recruiters care about, not the tenure.
• 10:52
  When I think about how I hire now, you know what's so funny?
• 10:58
  I don't think I've ever looked at
• 11:00
  how long they've stayed in different positions.
• 11:03
  I look at, can they do the job that I need them to do?
• 11:07
  And can they do it successfully?
• 11:08
  And sometimes it's like, have they even done it before?
• 11:11
  And I can just see exactly how they've done it last year, the year before.
• 11:14
  Well, I know they've done it well.
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  So come do it for me.
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  I've never really cared.
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  And I don't know when that shifted.
• 11:22
  It's actually, you know, it's funny.
• 11:24
  That's the way I've always hired.
• 11:26
  I've always hired just based on like, is the person suitable for the job?
• 11:30
  Can they actually do the job to be done?
• 11:32
  I remember though, when I worked in companies when I was starting my career, and there was times when I'd be responsible for hiring people and I have to give, you know, a stack of CVs or resumes to the director, the manager, the founder, the CEO, and that's the one thing they'd point out.
• 11:49
  They figure out why, you know, they figure if they, if they,
• 11:54
  have a gap in their resume, that's like a huge red flag.
• 11:57
  That was a huge red flag.
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  Or if they've gone from company A to company B to company C, it's like, oh, they must be unemployable.
• 12:03
  They must be like the worst person to work with ever.
• 12:06
  So you see that this has completely shifted.
• 12:12
  And when I say employers, the caveat is employers you want to work for.
• 12:16
  Yes.
• 12:17
  Which is a big caveat.
• 12:18
  Correct.
• 12:19
  You see that they don't care as much anymore.
• 12:21
  They focus on different metrics, kind of like what I'm doing when I'm hiring.
• 12:24
  Yes, exactly your approach.
• 12:25
  Proof of impact, proof of skill sets.
• 12:27
  Can you do this job?
• 12:28
  Have you done this before?
• 12:30
  Do you have a track record of achievements in terms of the things I'm looking for?
• 12:33
  That's what it is.
• 12:35
  So when I was doing research for this podcast, I saw some interesting stats and opinions on the job market because a lot of companies say they can't find good people.
• 12:49
  Crazy, because the job seekers are also saying they're getting ghosted and they can't find good opportunities.
• 12:56
  So who's correct?
• 12:57
  Like who's right?
• 12:58
  There's these two competing ideas.
• 13:00
  They both can't be correct.
• 13:02
  What's going on here?
• 13:04
  Two things can be true.
• 13:05
  I do believe the process is broken on both sides, from the job seeker side and from the employer side.
• 13:11
  There's challenges on both sides.
• 13:13
  And I think there's a lot that could be critiqued that could be changed.
• 13:18
  I think from the job seeker standpoint, it's really hard to have a conversation with an employer.
• 13:24
  I think ZipRecruiter does a great job of starting conversations between employers and job seekers.
• 13:28
  But that is a huge pain point.
• 13:30
  Also, ghost jobs, catfishing in the market, um,
• 13:33
  And then for the employers, they have a hard time sussing out where is my ideal candidate?
• 13:39
  Who's my ideal hire?
• 13:40
  Because they're shifting through these AI generated resumes.
• 13:43
  They're sifting through a lot of resumes that are not relevant to the position.
• 13:48
  So there's challenges on both sides.
• 13:49
  It's a process that needs some upheaval.
• 13:53
  So we can talk about companies later and how to find the right recruits.
• 13:57
  I wanna talk to people right now that are in jobs.
• 13:59
  I think those are the people that are struggling the most.
• 14:01
  And even before we press record, I said, I have a lot of entrepreneurs and founders on this podcast.
• 14:07
  I don't have a lot of people that teach you how to navigate
• 14:11
  career.
• 14:12
  And that is like probably a little bit over 50% of the people listen to this podcast.
• 14:15
  So they get some great ideas from the entrepreneurs, but then they're like, okay, how do I get the promotion?
• 14:20
  Not many founders and CEOs that come on this show teach you how to get the promotion.
• 14:24
  So how do you like, how do you operate in like a modern job environment?
• 14:28
  So I'm
• 14:31
  You said mosaic jobs.
• 14:32
  You explained the latter, but mosaic jobs.
• 14:34
  Go a little bit deeper into what a mosaic job is, but maybe some other strategies that can help people navigate and, you know, get the promotion, get the title if that's what they want, get more compensation.
• 14:46
  Yeah, for sure.
• 14:47
  So I think if you're looking to get promoted in your current role, of course, know your strengths and celebrate the achievements that you've accomplished in that role.
• 14:56
  So keep a running list of everything that you've done, every impact that you've made.
• 15:01
  And then I think the most important piece that doesn't get talked about as much is the self-advocacy piece of approaching your boss and saying, this is the role that I want next.
• 15:08
  Here are my achievements.
• 15:09
  Will you advocate for me to help me get there?
• 15:12
  So having that direct conversation with your boss and making them your ally in the conversation and making them your champion when it comes to advocating for you to the powers that be, I think that conversation is really important to have.
• 15:22
  I think a lot of people just wait, wait on the boss to come to them.
• 15:27
  You know, hard work will speak for itself.
• 15:30
  That is false.
• 15:31
  That is not happening anytime soon.
• 15:33
  I've never had that experience.
• 15:35
  Nobody I know has ever had that experience.
• 15:38
  This was kind of what led me to writing my book in the first place.
• 15:41
  So, yeah, I think that it was about self.
• 15:43
  It was it was mostly because people don't advocate for themselves.
• 15:46
  Yeah.
• 15:46
  And I think the old advice was is still very pervasive in a lot of career books written by men.
• 15:53
  The self-advocacy piece is missing because I think for men they have to advocate for themselves less.
• 15:58
  But as women, you know, we are grown up and conditioned to be people pleasers.
• 16:04
  So we're not always in that mindset of self-advocacy because of the broader system and the way it's set up.
• 16:10
  So I think it was important to acknowledge the elephant in the room.
• 16:13
  I've heard this before.
• 16:14
  I don't know the data behind it, but if a guy sees a job that he's unqualified for, he's going to apply anyways.
• 16:21
  And if a woman sees a job that she is incredibly qualified for, she still second guesses whether or not to apply for it.
• 16:28
  I think that data is outdated.
• 16:31
  I challenge that because I think women are applying for roles just as much as men are.
• 16:35
  I think it's the system that rejects women that they perceive as less qualified.
• 16:40
  Explain how to navigate that then, because that is super not great news for a woman who is super ambitious in her career.
• 16:49
  So she is qualified.
• 16:51
  She is applying.
• 16:53
  She's not getting the results.
• 16:54
  She's not getting the job.
• 16:55
  She's not getting the callback.
• 16:57
  So what does she do?
• 16:58
  I mean, I guess we're now talking about sort of like critiquing the broader system, right?
• 17:02
  There are certain things that are beyond our control, right?
• 17:06
  Like as a woman, right, the system is beyond my control, right?
• 17:10
  So in terms of what is within my control, I can focus on that, right?
• 17:14
  So for me, when I'm advising clients, community, I'm talking about know your strengths down to a laser pinpoint.
• 17:21
  Don't be a generalist, be a specialist.
• 17:23
  So really identify your strengths and name them.
• 17:26
  So that's number one.
• 17:27
  I would say number two is focus on opportunities that you're excited about and passionate about because the intersection of utilizing your strengths and pursuing your passion is where the money is and where the happiness lies.
• 17:39
  So I would say I would say that I would also say.
• 17:43
  Call out what's what's happening and talk to other people about it.
• 17:47
  Talk to your family.
• 17:47
  Talk to your best friend.
• 17:49
  Talk to your therapist.
• 17:50
  Talk about what's going on and don't be silent about it.
• 17:53
  Have conversations like what we're having today and call out what's going on in the system and what's challenging.
• 17:59
  A lot of people experience imposter syndrome.
• 18:00
  So I think just talking about that and saying, hey, I experienced this.
• 18:03
  So does everybody else.
• 18:06
  That diminishes the power of it.
• 18:08
  I like that.
• 18:08
  How does somebody, you mentioned about getting sort of advocates in the company to help you with your career.
• 18:17
  And obviously this can help men or women, but say women are hurting and they're not getting the opportunities even though they want them and they're applying for them and they're like highly overqualified for them.
• 18:25
  How do you get an advocate to sort of champion you in your job?
• 18:29
  Because I think that is,
• 18:31
  That is like a huge, huge advantage when somebody who, say you're just starting out manager, director, VP, C-suite, they can make things happen.
• 18:42
  And I'll just say one more thing and then I'll ask your advice on how to get that person to advocate for you.
• 18:49
  A lot of the time, if you're doing everything right and you're not getting the results that you think you should be getting, you have to be, you have to remove the ego out of the equation.
• 18:59
  Like if you, if you're not qualified, then you're not qualified.
• 19:02
  But if you are truly qualified, no one's advocating for you.
• 19:05
  You're not getting the promotion.
• 19:06
  You're not getting the salary.
• 19:09
  Like you should not work for that company.
• 19:11
  100 percent.
• 19:12
  Yeah, you should leave.
• 19:13
  You should leave.
• 19:14
  And I think that that is like a very important message to like not everything can be solved with every company ever.
• 19:20
  And it's not your fault if things aren't working out.
• 19:24
  Yeah, 100 percent.
• 19:25
  And I advise clients and job seekers on that all the time.
• 19:28
  And the best time to look for a job is while you have one, even if you don't like it.
• 19:31
  You know, it's a great time because you can still feel you're getting your financials taken care of and you can focus on your strengths and look elsewhere because you already have a job.
• 19:40
  So that is a great time to do that.
• 19:42
  So getting getting advocacy for people in the company.
• 19:46
  Yeah, I think that's a great question.
• 19:48
  I think having allies and establishing relationships is really important.
• 19:51
  I think a lot of times when you hear the word networking, people think like, how do I network?
• 19:55
  How do I build a network?
• 19:56
  How do I reach out to people?
• 19:58
  For me, networking is about deepening your existing connections.
• 20:02
  So it's about networking more deeply with the people you already know.
• 20:05
  So when you think about your company where you work now, besides your boss, who you want to connect with, who do you organically have a connection with?
• 20:12
  So I call that niche networking.
• 20:13
  So for me, I'm a woman in the workplace.
• 20:15
  I'm a woman in leadership.
• 20:16
  So I want to connect with other women in leadership.
• 20:19
  And I want to deepen my connections with them.
• 20:21
  So who do I share common ground with?
• 20:23
  People on my team, people outside my team who maybe share my hobbies, share my interests, who maybe share my same skill sets or who have complementary skill sets to me.
• 20:32
  So that's who I look to to build those connections.
• 20:35
  And I make sure when I'm talking to them, I am very clear about what it is I'm good at.
• 20:40
  Here's what I bring to the table.
• 20:41
  I develop people.
• 20:42
  I develop leaders.
• 20:43
  I work on people first leadership.
• 20:45
  I help people discover their superpowers.
• 20:47
  How can that be a value to you and your team?
• 20:49
  How can we collaborate on that?
• 20:51
  So you make you make your skill set known across the entire company.
• 20:55
  Yes.
• 20:56
  As opposed to what I'm going to assume is you see a role and you're only trying to network with the hiring manager for that role.
• 21:04
  And that could be the mistake.
• 21:05
  Yes, I think it's about connecting with people you already share a common ground with.
• 21:10
  I understand.
• 21:11
  So it's, you know, in sales, just in my background, there's a strategy.
• 21:17
  It's going to be a little bit nerdy, but it's called multi-threading.
• 21:21
  What it means is when you're trying to sell something to somebody, you don't just talk to the person who's buying your product or service.
• 21:27
  You talk to like five or seven people around them that are all going to influence their decision.
• 21:33
  So you make friends with the, you know, the junior level marketer, or you make friends with the director of IT that's going to have to figure out how to implement your shit that you just sold them.
• 21:44
  Or you're going to make friends with all these people and talk to all of these people in the company so that by the time CMO, CEO actually makes a decision to buy your stuff.
• 21:54
  starts asking around, there's like five people that are like, oh, I love Scott.
• 21:58
  I love what he's doing.
• 21:59
  I love what he's selling.
• 22:00
  We should definitely buy it.
• 22:01
  I've spoken to him like five times.
• 22:01
  He's a great guy.
• 22:02
  We went for coffee.
• 22:03
  And then on top of that, like, it's actually going to solve the problem that we have.
• 22:06
  So it's almost like the same idea.
• 22:07
  It's like...
• 22:10
  get everybody on board with how cool and badass you are.
• 22:14
  And then that helps.
• 22:15
  It really does help because like people will talk about what, you know, all the value you bring, all the projects you're working on, how you've helped this person over here with part of their job that has no, you don't, it's not part of your JD.
• 22:26
  You don't have to be doing that, but you're showing like all your value.
• 22:29
  Yeah.
• 22:30
  You gain influence.
• 22:31
  You, you gain influence that way and people start talking and you don't have to generate that talk because people will just organically talk about it when you bring that value.
• 22:39
  Should you apply to jobs you're not qualified for?
• 22:42
  Yes.
• 22:43
  Talk me through applying for a job you are not qualified for, but then what's next when you get the call back?
• 22:50
  So I should say applying for jobs you're not qualified for is part of a strategy, right?
• 22:55
  So you want to apply mostly for jobs that you are appropriately qualified for.
• 22:59
  And you want to apply for some reach jobs as well, because if you don't, you're limiting yourself, right?
• 23:04
  So it comes down to does this job match my superpowers?
• 23:08
  Does this job match my zones of genius?
• 23:09
  So it always comes back to self-awareness of your skill sets.
• 23:13
  Then as part of your job search strategy, you do want to apply to some jobs that are reach jobs.
• 23:19
  And your question is, once you've applied for those- Once you get that callback from that job, yeah.
• 23:23
  You get a callback from a reach job.
• 23:25
  Yes.
• 23:26
  I mean, that's a win.
• 23:27
  I think that's a huge win.
• 23:28
  First of all, celebrate that.
• 23:29
  That's exciting.
• 23:31
  And then all of a sudden, maybe that's going to become your norm.
• 23:33
  That's going to accelerate your job search because you challenged yourself and you applied for something that's a little bit beyond what you thought you could do.
• 23:39
  You just unlocked a bunch of opportunities you may have never thought to go for.
• 23:44
  I think that's so wise.
• 23:45
  I also think that, I think that not everybody, but a lot of people don't realize how incredible they are and how if they're given these sort of reach jobs or reach opportunities, like they're going to figure it out.
• 23:58
  Like you got to bet on yourself more.
• 24:00
  You really have to bet on yourself more.
• 24:02
  100%.
• 24:02
  This is like at the root of my work, kind of why I started my business is because people are under utilizing their strengths or not tapped into what makes them great.
• 24:12
  And that's my superpowers, helping other people discover and cultivate their superpowers.
• 24:17
  What is some of the most hurtful or worst career advice that people still believe?
• 24:24
  I think one is definitely hard work pays off.
• 24:29
  I disagree with that.
• 24:32
  Hard work is great, but on its own, it is not going to pay off financially, emotionally, in any capacity.
• 24:40
  It will only pay off when you can...
• 24:45
  say it in a succinct way, and promote it to the powers that be.
• 24:49
  So if you're not advocating for the results that you've delivered and branding your results, I talk about this a lot, about like brand your results.
• 24:59
  Like to get a job in the market today, you kind of have to think like a marketer and brand yourself.
• 25:05
  Brand your results, brand the work that you deliver for a company,
• 25:11
  in a really powerful, succinct way.
• 25:14
  If you're not doing that, the hard work doesn't matter.
• 25:17
  I want to tell a quick story that I mentioned before we pressed record.
• 25:21
  I'm going to ask what happens when a company, you're advocating for yourself, but a company is just not treating you the way that you should be.
• 25:29
  Like, what do you do to move into a better situation?
• 25:32
  You mentioned like looking for jobs while you're already employed.
• 25:35
  I'm going to talk about quiet quitting too and all that stuff.
• 25:38
  Um, this was a really interesting thing that happened to me in my career.
• 25:43
  So very, very early on, um, I was working for a company and I was going to be promoted and the promotion came with like a very small percent pay raise.
• 25:52
  And, uh, the director, my director at the time said, it's so stupid, but if we hire you externally, for example, say instead of going from like 60 to 65, I could hire you externally at 80,000 per year.
• 26:07
  Just significant for a young kid just in their career.
• 26:10
  It's like a 20 grand bump.
• 26:11
  That's huge.
• 26:13
  And he said, listen, Scott, you're like way overqualified.
• 26:18
  You can move into this.
• 26:19
  It was in sales.
• 26:20
  You can move from small market to mid market.
• 26:22
  You can sell to bigger companies.
• 26:23
  You're already killing it.
• 26:25
  But I need you to put your resignation on my desk and then I'll rehire you.
• 26:30
  Obviously, this is not the way that the company wanted this to work out, but he was a big fan of me.
• 26:38
  He was helping me.
• 26:38
  He was like, what's the word?
• 26:41
  Not advocacy, but what was the other word?
• 26:42
  He was an ally.
• 26:43
  He was an ally, yeah.
• 26:44
  He was a huge ally, sort of instructing me on how to navigate this broken system.
• 26:49
  A lot of other, this was a big company, a lot of other people probably did not have that ally in the company and probably did not get that advice and probably were getting paid way less than somebody who was hired externally.
• 27:00
  When you're in a shitty situation like that, you don't have an ally.
• 27:04
  And I think this is very real.
• 27:05
  This is why Mosaic Careers exist, because of dumbass policies like what I just described.
• 27:11
  It's dumbass policies.
• 27:12
  It's people that don't have allies, and they're realizing that,
• 27:18
  Some companies don't value you the way that they should.
• 27:22
  So if you come to this realization, it sucks, but what do you do next?
• 27:27
  I think it's amazing you had that powerful ally to sort of guide you through that process.
• 27:30
  But to your point, you know, we don't all have that.
• 27:33
  But I think this is where knowing your skill sets and betting on your skills comes in handy, right?
• 27:40
  We're not betting on the ladder.
• 27:40
  We're betting on our skills.
• 27:41
  So it's about...
• 27:44
  Can I take my skills elsewhere?
• 27:46
  Can I take my skills elsewhere?
• 27:47
  I do this and become a consultant and say, all right, this company is undervaluing me.
• 27:52
  I know what I can offer.
• 27:54
  Using my skills in X, I help companies achieve Y.
• 27:58
  Know your value proposition.
• 27:59
  Know it inside and out.
• 28:00
  Know exactly what your skills are and what you bring to the table, how you add value.
• 28:04
  And take that and run it on your own.
• 28:07
  See if you can turn that into multiple consulting opportunities.
• 28:11
  Maybe one freelance gig while you're still at your corporate job.
• 28:14
  Dip a toe in.
• 28:15
  We're seeing a lot of people start this now and it's driven by economic necessity, right?
• 28:19
  In case they're
• 28:20
  company lays them off.
• 28:21
  It's like, all right, well, I have this other freelance thing going that I'm building, that I'm working on.
• 28:25
  So we're seeing a lot of folks turning to entrepreneurship.
• 28:29
  In a recent ZipRecruiter grad survey, we're seeing the highest percentage that we've seen of recent grads that are considering entrepreneurship as a career path.
• 28:38
  Plod is a success story partner.
• 28:40
  Now, I spoke about Plod a few episodes back.
• 28:42
  This is the AI powered device that captures your conversations, turns them into transcripts, summaries, action items.
• 28:48
  And I wanted to come back to it because I keep finding new ways that this thing is incredibly useful.
• 28:52
  Last week, I sat down with a potential sponsor at a coffee shop.
• 28:55
  And we're going back and forth on deliverables, timelines, pricing, a lot of details and a lot of numbers.
• 29:00
  And normally after a conversation like that, I'd open my notes app on my phone.
• 29:05
  I try to write everything down.
• 29:06
  I remembered and I'd probably get about 70% of it, but the other 30% would be gone.
• 29:11
  usually the small details that end up mattering a lot later.
• 29:15
  But this time, with their permission, I had the note pin S on my shirt and I honestly forgot it was even there.
• 29:20
  So after the meeting, I opened up my Plod app and everything was already laid out.
• 29:24
  The full transcript, a clear summary, the key numbers we discussed and the follow ups I'd agreed to, and I could even ask Plod what
• 29:30
  pricing did we discuss or what were my next steps?
• 29:32
  And it pulls up the answer right away.
• 29:34
  I didn't have to reconstruct the conversation from memory.
• 29:37
  And that's the part that I keep coming back to.
• 29:38
  I'm not splitting my attention in meetings between being present in the conversation and trying to document and remember everything.
• 29:45
  I can just focus on the person in front of me, knowing that the important details will be there afterwards.
• 29:50
  And remember, they do have two products.
• 29:51
  So the Note Pro magnetically attaches at the back of your phone.
• 29:54
  It's great for calls and the Note Pin S clips or magnetically attaches to your shirt, making it ideal for in-person conversations.
• 30:00
  And you can choose between them depending on the situation.
• 30:03
  So if you spend a lot of your day in conversations and you're tired of losing important details, go check it out.
• 30:08
  Go to plod.ai slash success and use code success for 15% off.
• 30:13
  That's plod.ai slash success and use code success for 15% off.
• 30:17
  Odoo is a success story partner.
• 30:19
  And remember, that is pronounced O-do.
• 30:21
  Now, I want to tell you something that happened to me recently that I think a lot of you will relate to.
• 30:25
  I was trying to send a quote to a client, and this should be simple, right?
• 30:28
  Except the pricing was in one tool, and the contact info was in another tool, and the last conversation that we had was in a third tool.
• 30:35
  And then I spent something like 20 minutes pulling it all together for one quote.
• 30:39
  And
• 30:43
  The problem is that they don't talk to each other.
• 30:45
  So you become the person connecting everything.
• 30:48
  You become the integration.
• 30:50
  You're the one copying numbers between tabs and making sure everything matches.
• 30:54
  But that's what Odoo fixes.
• 30:55
  It puts everything on one platform.
• 30:58
  So I'm talking accounting, invoicing, CRM, inventory, HR, project management, your website, e-commerce, e-signatures, over 45 apps, all connected.
• 31:07
  When something happens in one place, every other place already knows about it.
• 31:11
  So you're not updating three systems every time you close a deal.
• 31:14
  And the pricing is the part that surprised me.
• 31:16
  The first app is free for life, unlimited users, hosting included.
• 31:20
  One subscription after that unlocks everything else.
• 31:23
  So if you're spending your time connecting tools, instead of actually doing the work you have to do, go check it out.
• 31:28
  Links in the show notes.
• 31:29
  My fitness pal is a success story partner.
• 31:31
  People always ask me how I have time to track what I eat, pay attention to my nutrition.
• 31:35
  When I have a daily podcast, I have a weekly podcast, I have a newsletter, I run a marketing agency, my days are super full.
• 31:40
  But honestly, that's exactly why I have to do it.
• 31:43
  See, when you're running that many things, when you are a high performing person, you cannot afford to have your energy be inconsistent.
• 31:49
  Food is a foundation for everything, for energy, for sleep, for weight, for recovery, for performance.
• 31:54
  And the days when I'm not paying attention to what I'm eating,
• 31:56
  I feel it.
• 31:57
  The MyFitnessPal app makes tracking a non-issue.
• 32:00
  I can say what I ate, it has voice logging, or I can point my camera at a plate with meal scan and it figures out what's there.
• 32:06
  See, I'm not sitting around entering all my ingredients.
• 32:09
  The app does the work for me.
• 32:11
  It also connects to over 40 fitness apps and wearables, so my training, my steps, my nutrition, it all goes to one place.
• 32:18
  One picture of what's happening instead of having to piece everything together myself.
• 32:21
  The whole thing is frictionless.
• 32:22
  It takes seconds, not minutes.
• 32:24
  So do yourself a favor, start tracking what you eat.
• 32:26
  You are going to feel way better.
• 32:28
  Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code SCOTT, all uppercase, for 15% off MyFitnessPal premium.
• 32:34
  That's podcast.myfitnesspal.com, code SCOTT.
• 32:38
  So would your advice be for that person to, because I always say dip a toe in entrepreneurship, but I think that it's more stressful than most people realize.
• 32:47
  So would the advice be dip a toe into entrepreneurship or would it be quiet quit, which the way that I understand quiet quitting is like you're basically already checked out mentally and you're using like most of your energy to start applying for new jobs.
• 33:02
  Or is it more of a personal decision?
• 33:04
  Some people should do entrepreneurship.
• 33:06
  Some people should apply for another job.
• 33:07
  Some people.
• 33:09
  can be part entrepreneurs and make extra income while also getting another job.
• 33:13
  Like how do they, there's so many different options.
• 33:15
  And I think that also too many options creates paralysis and no action.
• 33:20
  So people see all these options and they're like, Oh shit, you know what?
• 33:23
  That's a lot of work.
• 33:24
  No matter which way I do it, I'm just going to stay here.
• 33:27
  Cause like the, what's the, what's the saying?
• 33:29
  It's like, um, yeah,
• 33:31
  the, oh, I can't write, it's like the, whatever, the bad thing that you know is better than like the bad, what's the saying, G?
• 33:37
  The devil you know.
• 33:38
  The devil you know.
• 33:39
  The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, yeah.
• 33:41
  I think that's a reality for a lot of people, but that mindset keeps them in a career with a company that is not the best for them for years.
• 33:51
  And that could turn into like, you know, I'll stay here for another two, three years, and then it's their whole career.
• 33:57
  And they never, never make the uncomfortable move.
• 33:59
  So how do they navigate this whole thing?
• 34:01
  think make a change slowly so whether that's looking and start looking at other opportunities start thinking about if you were to freelance what that could look like start like dipping a toe in slowly and it is personal it's a very personal decision but I think just in terms of like hundreds of people I've worked with and coached over the years I've never seen anybody regret
• 34:25
  taking a risk and moving on from somewhere they hated.
• 34:28
  I've never seen that work out poorly.
• 34:30
  I think people are so afraid, right?
• 34:32
  It's like, yeah, the devil you know versus the devil you don't.
• 34:36
  But when you're so unhappy somewhere, you do actually have to make the change in order to see what can be possible.
• 34:44
  So you have to make that effort to do something different.
• 34:46
  Talk to me about quiet quitting.
• 34:48
  So this is not a new idea.
• 34:54
  There's a difference between Mosaic careers and looking for something new.
• 35:00
  So you get that 10, 20% pay bump.
• 35:04
  That's, in my mind, I don't mind that.
• 35:06
  I think that as somebody who hires people,
• 35:10
  I should, I, it's my job to understand your goals so that I'm not sort of blindsided by your career aspirations and ambitions.
• 35:21
  Like I should know this shit ahead of time.
• 35:22
  So if you want to make 20% more, it shouldn't come as a shock to me.
• 35:26
  And then we can have that conversation, but whether or not I can actually do that or I can help facilitate the next thing for you.
• 35:30
  Yeah.
• 35:33
  If somebody's not doing that for you, like, do you do this quiet quitting thing where you know, like you're checked out mentally, but you're just applying for other jobs?
• 35:43
  Is that is that ethical?
• 35:45
  Like, talk to me about this, because that's something that probably a lot of people struggle with.
• 35:49
  Quiet quitting is common in the current era.
• 35:54
  It's common.
• 35:55
  I would say it's common.
• 35:55
  It's pervasive.
• 35:56
  And I think it comes down to the difficulties of the economic reality that we live in.
• 36:02
  Burnout culture being extremely normalized.
• 36:06
  And Gen Z and millennials starting to challenge, again, the notion of like what's most important in life.
• 36:11
  Is it the job or is it a more holistic sense of being?
• 36:15
  Is there a better, because that would hurt the business if they're quiet, especially a smaller business.
• 36:23
  If somebody on my team right now is quiet quitting, I mean, that's like one sixth of our workforce is just checked out.
• 36:30
  So like, that's why I wanna maintain, but I mean, obviously it's easier when it's a small team with a podcast and a media company than with a huge team.
• 36:37
  But is that a good thing to do for your career?
• 36:41
  Like if you, and like maybe,
• 36:45
  The employee is judging the employer too quickly and thinking that they won't say yes to what I want.
• 36:54
  Like, I think self-advocacy should come first and communication should come first.
• 37:00
  Because if they just quite quit without having a good conversation with their boss or director, that's also not good.
• 37:06
  I find the most quiet quitting happens after that conversation has been had.
• 37:10
  So that conversation has happened and then you get shot down for the third time, let's say.
• 37:15
  That's when that kicks in.
• 37:16
  So what I would say, though, is flipping it to the employer perspective.
• 37:20
  I don't know that many employers that are tuned into this that are asking.
• 37:26
  Are employers asking their employees what?
• 37:29
  What's going on?
• 37:30
  Like, are you engaged?
• 37:31
  If not, why?
• 37:32
  You know, some people do self, you know, go the self-advocacy route and share and talk.
• 37:37
  But I do think employers can be more tapped in to what's going on with their employees and getting a deeper understanding of the why.
• 37:44
  So if you quiet quit
• 37:47
  How do you explain that to your next job?
• 37:49
  If they, if they, because they, I mean, I guess like people still check references and stuff like that every once in a while.
• 37:53
  They wonder why you left.
• 37:54
  So with that, like, I'm just thinking of somebody who would be going through that.
• 37:57
  Would that not stress me out if I quiet quit, tuned out, got a new job or I applied somewhere?
• 38:06
  Would it not hurt my chances of getting the job though?
• 38:08
  If I have like a bad reputation?
• 38:09
  Quiet quitting should be undetectable.
• 38:11
  So when you're quiet quitting, you're still delivering results.
• 38:14
  You're just not going above and beyond maybe the way that you would if you felt treated really well and respected by that company.
• 38:20
  So quiet quitting should be subtle.
• 38:23
  I'm more curious about the other end of the spectrum, too.
• 38:27
  When the company is doing the bare minimum, like the company is quiet quitting on you and they're basically not honoring their promises,
• 38:36
  When you were hired, they said you could get here by a certain date, you know, in a year where you're going to be making this much or we're going to.
• 38:43
  And it ends up being all lies.
• 38:45
  Like catfishing.
• 38:48
  Is that a thing that companies do more and more now?
• 38:51
  Yeah, I think it's definitely common.
• 38:52
  I think it's more common that I think it's always been happening.
• 38:55
  I think it's more common now that employees will call it out and speak on it.
• 38:58
  You know, so it's it's I mean, go read about it.
• 39:00
  You can read about it on Break Room.
• 39:01
  You can read about it on wherever you want to go online and read about it.
• 39:04
  Reddit, Discord.
• 39:06
  Stories are being told, you know, things are being discussed.
• 39:08
  I think we're just in an era where people are willing to call it out and talk about it more.
• 39:12
  But I think it's been happening.
• 39:14
  So how do you stop yourself from getting into that company in the first place?
• 39:17
  What are the ways, is there a way to like vet them when they're hiring you to make sure you don't end up in a shitty situation?
• 39:23
  There's definitely questions you can ask in the interview process to determine values alignment, but nothing can really prepare you for a bait and switch, a catfish.
• 39:32
  I think it happens over time also.
• 39:33
  This is another reason I think why people are jaw-popping.
• 39:35
  Because when you stay at a company for a long period of time, you start to see the cracks.
• 39:40
  You start to see, you know, what's not working and what's working.
• 39:43
  You start to see, okay, they're keeping leadership in their roles for really long periods of time and it's not growing and it's not innovating.
• 39:49
  Yeah.
• 39:50
  And that's when that's when you got to start taking action, making moves, advocating for yourself, marketing yourself, building your brand as a professional inside the company as the company.
• 40:01
  And then like do that uncomfortable thing if need be and go somewhere where you're actually valued.
• 40:06
  That's it's it's it's tough.
• 40:08
  It's very tough.
• 40:09
  It's tough.
• 40:10
  It puts all the onus on you, right, as an employee to like build a brand, know your strengths, get out.
• 40:16
  It's a lot harder than it used to be, like to the point that you were bringing up earlier.
• 40:19
  Like it used to be very, very simple, cut and dry.
• 40:22
  Nowadays, it's really challenging and complex.
• 40:25
  I think that, and tell me if I'm right or wrong, I think that all people should experience some version of entrepreneurship because I think it'll make them a better employee.
• 40:35
  And I think that it'll make life less stressful for them.
• 40:38
  So even if they don't want to build a business, I don't think it's a bad thing to like...
• 40:45
  take whatever you're good at and then like consult and sell it to the market and see, because I think that confidence in being able to make money yourself and not being completely reliant makes you a stronger employee.
• 40:58
  Yes, I would agree with that.
• 41:00
  And I think entrepreneurship has a broad definition.
• 41:03
  You know, it's not only what people think it is.
• 41:05
  It's not just you have to be a founder.
• 41:07
  You have to be Scott hosting a podcast like you don't it doesn't have to be that way.
• 41:12
  I started quite small on my entrepreneurship journey.
• 41:16
  You know, just post a video, claim a handle.
• 41:20
  Show up in your community and speak on something you care about.
• 41:23
  I think entrepreneurship can look a variety of different ways.
• 41:27
  It's really just about using your strengths and elevating your platform.
• 41:33
  What about yourself?
• 41:34
  You felt compelled to advocate for people that are trying to navigate careers.
• 41:40
  What happened to you?
• 41:41
  Who hurt you then?
• 41:44
  Well, yeah, I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, my business was born out of frustration with the system.
• 41:51
  Yeah, I was very frustrated with what I would consider a values mismatch between me and the companies I was working for.
• 41:57
  You know, they would say their values would be one thing.
• 41:59
  I would find out it's something else.
• 42:01
  The thing we're talking about right now is you were living it.
• 42:03
  I was living that.
• 42:03
  Yes, I was living that.
• 42:04
  And that made it hard to get out of bed every day and go to work and show up for my team.
• 42:09
  So what I ended up doing while I was still in the job was, and we alluded to this earlier in the conversation, was how can I make this job work for me right now?
• 42:18
  Even though it's difficult, even though there's a values mismatch, even though I don't love it, how can I make it work for me and make it something that I can be excited about doing somewhat?
• 42:28
  And so that for me was I'm in a people leadership role.
• 42:31
  That's where I'm comfortable.
• 42:32
  So I was like, I'm going to promote every woman on my team before I leave.
• 42:35
  And I did that.
• 42:36
  And I did that.
• 42:36
  I created new roles.
• 42:37
  I worked with my team members.
• 42:38
  I said, all right, let's base these new roles on your individual strengths and the needs of the business.
• 42:43
  Where that intersection lies, we're going to craft these positions and I'm going to promote everybody.
• 42:46
  And I did.
• 42:47
  I promoted everybody on my team and that kept me motivated to continue.
• 42:50
  So this is like find something.
• 42:52
  We talked about this before.
• 42:53
  When you're miserable in a job, you can usually find something to cling to.
• 42:57
  But I'm not saying cling to that and stay forever.
• 43:00
  Find something where you can make an impact and you can be happy and you can elevate your resume and then leave.
• 43:04
  I love this.
• 43:05
  So it's like, life is not so like black and white binary.
• 43:09
  It's like, you know where you got to go.
• 43:11
  You've got to do things to make your situation better.
• 43:13
  But in the meantime, like make the best of where you're at.
• 43:18
  And like you almost, you almost like, I like it.
• 43:20
  You like forced your values on this company that was disrespecting you.
• 43:24
  You're like, F you guys, I'm going to make the best situation for everybody around me.
• 43:28
  And I'm not going to be here in like two years from now.
• 43:30
  But in the meantime, I'm going to like,
• 43:33
  What I'm doing is what you should be doing, but F you.
• 43:35
  If you're not going to do it, I'm going to do it for myself in this environment.
• 43:38
  I made them better.
• 43:39
  I made them better.
• 43:40
  That's all you got to do.
• 43:42
  Everywhere you go, leave the place better than you found it, right?
• 43:44
  Okay, let me tell you a story related to what we were just saying.
• 43:48
  So I noticed that in my corporate roles, there was a trajectory and a pattern of my colleagues, my best friends in the work, really underselling themselves and not knowing the value that they brought to the team.
• 44:00
  They were just keeping their head above water, basically.
• 44:02
  So after observing this over time, I realized there's a gap between folks understanding what they bring to the table and owning that.
• 44:13
  So how do we bridge that gap?
• 44:15
  How do we help people really understand what their strengths are and then cultivate those so that way they can land in a job that values those strengths?
• 44:22
  So fast forward a couple of years later, this is the work that I do now at ZipRecruiter is helping helping job seekers, number one, identify their core strengths, transform their resumes to speak to those specific strengths and then land a role that pays money for those strengths.
• 44:39
  So that is really at the heart of the work that I do.
• 44:41
  And I've had multiple job seekers over the past couple of weeks come in with similar resumes.
• 44:47
  Very generic, sort of downplaying their strengths.
• 44:50
  And then when I sit on Zoom with them and have a conversation, I understand, wow, you actually have crazy interpersonal skills, massive emotional intelligence, amazing.
• 45:00
  A history of transforming the organizations you work at by implementing technology.
• 45:04
  And then we can actually tell a story on their resume that's really powerful about what their strengths are and how they transform businesses.
• 45:12
  And they leave the sessions with me amazed.
• 45:14
  I had somebody cry recently in a session.
• 45:16
  Because you're acting like this therapist that's showing them how incredible they are.
• 45:21
  Exactly.
• 45:22
  They can't do that for themselves.
• 45:23
  I can't do that for myself sometimes.
• 45:24
  It's really difficult to do that for yourself.
• 45:26
  But to have somebody else shine the light on you and speak to your strengths in a powerful, beautiful, compelling way is what people need right now to have the confidence to land the next opportunity.
• 45:36
  Because they're so miserable maybe in their job and their boss isn't recognizing their strengths.
• 45:41
  So I'm the person that can come in and translate that for them and change their perspective.
• 45:46
  And the sessions are, and these job seeker sessions, by the way, with me are free right now.
• 45:51
  Just reminded me.
• 45:52
  Yeah.
• 45:53
  Okay.
• 45:53
  Well, we will fill up your calendar.
• 45:57
  Good luck.
• 45:58
  Good luck managing all those Zoom calls.
• 45:59
  But in all seriousness, why do people have such a hard time understanding what they're so good at and advocating for themselves?
• 46:08
  Yeah, I think this is slowly starting to change.
• 46:12
  But I think right now we just haven't been brought up in a society that tells us to own and celebrate our strengths.
• 46:20
  I think it's more about fit yourself in a box.
• 46:23
  Okay, you want to do this career?
• 46:24
  This is your dream career?
• 46:25
  Figure out how to do it.
• 46:27
  Instead, I think we need the opposite perspective.
• 46:30
  Start with your strengths.
• 46:31
  Start with what you're good at.
• 46:33
  Build your ideal life around that and find a career that fits into that.
• 46:37
  I love this.
• 46:38
  I think just taking it a step further, I think the reason why we fall into careers that are not focused on our strength is because, again, sorry, mom and dad for bringing you back up into the podcast.
• 46:51
  But well-meaning parents, they have a version of life that they think will make you happy.
• 46:59
  if you get this job, we'll be proud of you.
• 47:01
  Be a doctor, be an engineer, be a lawyer, right?
• 47:06
  And it could work out.
• 47:08
  It could not work out.
• 47:09
  But then,
• 47:10
  What you think you want as a career is actually not what you want.
• 47:15
  It's what your parents wanted.
• 47:16
  It's what your guidance counselor said would be a good career.
• 47:18
  It's all these people that influence you.
• 47:21
  And you wake up, you know, one day when you're 35, 40, and your whole life is actually not even what you wanted.
• 47:28
  It's what all the people around you wanted from a very young age.
• 47:31
  And I think that that creates a ton of stress, anxiety, depression.
• 47:35
  You're speaking to the reality that most millennials currently face.
• 47:39
  Like my parents didn't help me figure out my strengths.
• 47:43
  I think they were just busy trying to raise me, go to work, put food on the table.
• 47:47
  Like they didn't necessarily encourage me to self-reflect.
• 47:50
  They don't know to.
• 47:51
  They just want the best for you.
• 47:53
  So if they had a career and it paid the bills and it got the house and it provided a comfortable upbringing, they're like, well, it worked for me.
• 48:00
  That's that's that's my that's that is my perception of reality.
• 48:04
  Yes.
• 48:05
  So hopefully it works for you.
• 48:07
  Just do this.
• 48:08
  I don't know.
• 48:09
  Strength?
• 48:09
  What do you mean strength?
• 48:10
  Just go become a doctor.
• 48:12
  You can afford the bills.
• 48:13
  Forget strengths.
• 48:14
  But I think that that's incorrect because when you do play to your strengths, you do make more money.
• 48:21
  You enjoy what you do.
• 48:22
  And you're happier.
• 48:24
  Which is ultimately like, that's what we're in it for.
• 48:26
  Like, I can't imagine doing something.
• 48:28
  I was talking to Jackie before we pressed record.
• 48:33
  And we're just talking about, you know, she's asking like, how long have you been doing this?
• 48:37
  Like, what keeps you going?
• 48:38
  I'm like, I just love it.
• 48:40
  Like, I don't know how to describe.
• 48:41
  I just love it.
• 48:44
  And don't get me wrong.
• 48:46
  Following your passion, I think you have an opinion on following your passion too, which I actually want to unpack.
• 48:50
  But following your passion, I don't think is even the best advice for me personally.
• 48:54
  Because when I do follow my passion, it doesn't mean that all the work is going to be fun.
• 49:03
  So even this podcast, the fun part of this podcast is sitting down with you having a conversation.
• 49:10
  that is like an hour, hour and a half of my life.
• 49:13
  You know what the other 22.5 hours in a day is outside of sleep?
• 49:20
  Not passionate driven work.
• 49:22
  It's tiring people.
• 49:23
  It's talking to advertisers.
• 49:25
  It's reviewing videos.
• 49:26
  It's P&L.
• 49:27
  It's all the other guys.
• 49:29
  It's all the non-fun stuff.
• 49:31
  So I think that at least have a bit of your life that lights you up.
• 49:37
  I think that a lot of people that we're talking to who are in careers who are listening to this, 0% of their work life lights them up.
• 49:44
  And I think that's not correct.
• 49:45
  I need like 5% of your work life at least to light you up a little bit.
• 49:53
  What do you feel about following your passion when it comes to a career?
• 49:56
  And is passion the same as what you're good at?
• 50:00
  Not always.
• 50:02
  It can be.
• 50:02
  Sometimes your passion is what you're good at.
• 50:04
  Sometimes it isn't.
• 50:06
  But I think it is important to find one aspect of the work that you are passionate about, whether that's like for me, the development piece, developing others.
• 50:15
  I realized like, wait, I'm really passionate about
• 50:18
  developing other people and honing in on their strengths and helping them with their areas where they want to grow in.
• 50:25
  So I think I think it's really more about, again, leaning into your strengths and finding if you can find where your strengths and your passion intersect, that's huge.
• 50:34
  If you can forge an opportunity there.
• 50:37
  But to your point, you're not always going to be enjoying the work 100 percent of the time because there's aspects that are not.
• 50:43
  What was your passion?
• 50:44
  What's your what are you passionate about?
• 50:45
  I genuinely love teaching people so that life is a little bit less confusing and stressful.
• 50:52
  And this is just the way that I do that.
• 50:54
  I used to do it in other ways.
• 50:55
  I used to coach tennis when I was really young.
• 50:57
  And I love when you've learned something in your life and you probably have the same passion because it's what you do for a living too.
• 51:05
  And like a little bit of what you figured out can make someone's life like just so much better in a very short period of time because you've already gone through the bullshit.
• 51:15
  That to me is, and I actually believe that if, you know, if I think most people that get a lot of fulfillment out of like giving back and teaching, it's just, I'm, I'm very bullish on architecting a life that, you know, fits my passion and my core strengths and my skills.
• 51:30
  So I didn't just want to do it casually.
• 51:33
  I wanted to do it professionally.
• 51:36
  But yeah, that's, but, but all at the same time, a lot of the work, even though I have a passion for this, a lot of the work is not fun.
• 51:43
  Sure.
• 51:45
  You know, I interviewed Guy Kawasaki and we were talking about passion and he had such a funny analogy.
• 51:52
  He was saying, don't follow your passion, like follow what you're good at, kind of like what you said.
• 51:57
  But then the passion comes anyways.
• 51:59
  And he's like, trust.
• 52:00
  If I make $100 million selling dog food, I'm not passionate about dogs or dog food, but I will find a way to become passionate about it if I build a business is making a ton of money.
• 52:10
  I think that when you follow your, this is, you know, obviously if you're starting a business and you're an entrepreneur, but in a career perspective,
• 52:16
  If you are starting a career and you're good at the thing, you'll make a ton of money.
• 52:21
  You'll find a ton of enjoyment in it.
• 52:22
  It won't feel like friction all the time.
• 52:25
  And it will just, it will just, I don't know, it'll feel just that much easier than if you're stuck in something that you really hate, that you're not good at.
• 52:34
  You can still figure it out, but it's just not the way to live your life.
• 52:37
  Totally.
• 52:39
  And it leaves room for passions outside of work, too.
• 52:42
  Like when you have a job that you enjoy, it lets you enjoy your outside of work hobbies and passions even more.
• 52:49
  I want to talk about AI.
• 52:50
  I want to talk about the future of work.
• 52:51
  So the obvious question is...
• 52:56
  Well, I think AI is eating a lot of entry-level jobs.
• 53:01
  What happens to people who are just starting out when the majority of jobs that AI can do are these entry-level jobs?
• 53:10
  So it's not as much that AI is eliminating jobs.
• 53:13
  It is changing the nature of work.
• 53:16
  It is changing what roles look like, whether that's entry level, mid-level, senior level.
• 53:20
  AI is changing the way that we work and is changing role requirements.
• 53:25
  So we have some data from Zip that is showing us that around 75% of employers now deem AI skills a requirement for a role.
• 53:35
  So that changes
• 53:39
  The job search, that changes interviews.
• 53:42
  It changes everything.
• 53:45
  And what's hard about it is it's still evolving on an ongoing daily basis.
• 53:51
  The way that companies use it, the way that companies expect you to use it.
• 53:57
  And companies also are not providing information.
• 54:00
  training internally.
• 54:01
  So they're expecting you to come in with the knowledge already with how to use it in the role.
• 54:07
  Some companies are providing training on it, but the numbers are low.
• 54:09
  I believe it's around 22% of companies are providing training in-house for AI on the job.
• 54:15
  HubSpot is a success story partner.
• 54:17
  Now, every entrepreneur, founder, CEOs listening right now needs to pay attention.
• 54:22
  I have a question for you.
• 54:23
  When a buyer asks AI for a solution or a product that your business sells, does your business come up?
• 54:31
  The answer is that most companies have no idea.
• 54:34
  They don't know if their name shows up in any of the AI tools, chat, perplexity, Claude, and by the time they find out, they have lost tons of traffic and tons of deals to someone who did show up.
• 54:48
  HubSpot AEO.
• 54:50
  It helps you show up in those moments with the right answers that your customers and your buyers are looking for when they go type in a question.
• 54:58
  It's before the first click.
• 54:59
  It's before they fill out some form on your website.
• 55:02
  That is the moment that HubSpot AEO is built for.
• 55:07
  So if you want your company to show up in AI searches when your customer is looking, check out HubSpot.com.
• 55:13
  They are the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
• 55:17
  NetSuite is a success story partner.
• 55:18
  Now you probably know NetSuite already.
• 55:20
  It's a software that a ton of companies use to basically manage everything.
• 55:24
  Their finances, their inventory, their HR, it's just all in one place.
• 55:27
  Now they just came out with NetSuite Next.
• 55:30
  This is the AI version of all of that.
• 55:32
  So now you can ask it a question the way you'd ask someone on your team who just knows everything about your business.
• 55:37
  It gives you the answer.
• 55:39
  It keeps you up to date on all the things you need to know about your company and your business without you having to go digging for them.
• 55:44
  And it has these AI agents that take care of all the routine work in your business that eats up everybody's day.
• 55:50
  Now, the bigger picture here is that AI is starting to change how teams actually work together.
• 55:56
  It's happening incredibly fast and most companies don't have a plan for it.
• 56:00
  NetSuite does.
• 56:00
  They have a free guide called Aligning for the Agentic Era, how AI is changing everyday work.
• 56:06
  It breaks down how AI could reshape the way your whole organization works and what your business should be doing to get ahead of it.
• 56:11
  If I needed a tool like NetSuite, it's what I'd use and you should too.
• 56:14
  So if your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era, How AI is Changing Everyday Work at netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.
• 56:24
  The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.
• 56:28
  That's netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.
• 56:30
  Monarch is a success story partner.
• 56:31
  Now, quick question.
• 56:32
  Do you know where your money went last month?
• 56:34
  Not roughly, but exactly.
• 56:36
  And most people don't.
• 56:37
  And I didn't for years.
• 56:38
  And that is most of our money stories, right?
• 56:40
  When we first start our career, we have one income and one account, and you can kind of wing it.
• 56:44
  But once you're running businesses, once you're investing, once you're carrying 50 different subscriptions that you stop paying attention to, winging it gets super expensive.
• 56:52
  Monarch fixed that for me.
• 56:53
  It is the personal finance app that tracks
• 56:56
  everything.
• 56:56
  So that means accounts, investments, savings goals, spending all on one screen.
• 57:00
  The first week I had it, it fired recurring charges I've been paying for months without realizing.
• 57:04
  And every single week, the AI recap tells me if spending spiked, if my net worth moved, and what bills are coming.
• 57:10
  And I can just ask it, hey,
• 57:11
  Can I afford this trip without touching my savings?
• 57:13
  And I can get a real answer based on my actual numbers.
• 57:17
  It is a financial advisor in your pocket.
• 57:19
  It costs less than an hour with a real one.
• 57:21
  So write your own money story with Monarch.
• 57:23
  Use code success at monarch.com and get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50.
• 57:28
  That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code success.
• 57:32
  So what does that mean for somebody coming out of college then?
• 57:34
  So entry-level job is, you said the definition of job change.
• 57:38
  So the new entry-level job is skill plus AI competency.
• 57:46
  So how does the person prep for that entry-level job?
• 57:50
  So to be prepared, you need to play around and use it on your own, whether you've used it in college or you use it in part time jobs or in your own freelance projects.
• 58:01
  You need to play around and use it so that way you can speak to outcomes.
• 58:04
  Companies don't just want to know, like, I know Claude, I know Gemini.
• 58:08
  It's not about the tool.
• 58:09
  It's about the outcomes you generate using those tools.
• 58:12
  And I encourage job seekers when they're editing their resumes to showcase those outcomes because then you're speaking the employer's language.
• 58:19
  So if you can say, I know how to automate workflows, I know how to speed up a process so that way I can free up my time to innovate and create new ideas for how to get more inbound leads if you're a salesperson, for example.
• 58:32
  So it's about the outcomes, not necessarily about the tool itself.
• 58:36
  So a level of competency is required, but it's positioning and marketing yourself differently as somebody who understands how to use the tools to get the outcomes.
• 58:45
  So it's not like entry-level jobs are disappearing completely because they still need somebody in that role.
• 58:51
  A good framework for AI that I heard is a 20-60-20 framework, meaning...
• 59:00
  if you're going to use AI, the first 20% of the project is human input, is prompting, is telling AI exactly what you want.
• 59:08
  60% is like the AI doing the work.
• 59:09
  And then the 20% on the backend is you reviewing the work and making sure that it's actually good.
• 59:14
  That's sort of a very safe way to use AI.
• 59:17
  I think that's how most companies are using it now.
• 59:19
  I actually don't think that people are being completely replaced with AI.
• 59:23
  I think that
• 59:24
  People that, again, don't know how to use AI are going to be replaced.
• 59:28
  So for that job seeker, it's about marketing and branding themselves as somebody who's competent on how to use AI, not just how to log into ChatGPT, but how to use AI to affect the business outcome.
• 59:39
  Yeah.
• 59:40
  And that's literally what you put on your resume.
• 59:42
  That's what you put in your, do people still do CVs?
• 59:47
  Cover letters, excuse me.
• 59:48
  Only if the employer requests it.
• 59:50
  But in the resume, that's what you're putting in your resume.
• 59:52
  Yes, correct.
• 59:53
  Did you, you have data?
• 59:55
  Yes.
• 59:56
  I want to pull some data about AI because it's very interesting.
• 1:00:00
  So this is stuff that ZipRecruiter has put together?
• 1:00:04
  Yes, this is some recent data from ZipRecruiter survey of employers regarding AI in the workplace.
• 1:00:09
  And I find this really fascinating.
• 1:00:12
  So as employers increase their demand for job seekers to have AI skills, at the same time that that's happening, they're also elevating the demand for the human skills that they require.
• 1:00:24
  So whereas in the past you might see on a resume...
• 1:00:27
  Interpersonal skills, empathy, communication.
• 1:00:30
  That is not enough anymore.
• 1:00:32
  What employers want right now from a human standpoint are three things, critical thinking, judgment and decision making and creativity.
• 1:00:40
  And what I find fascinating about that is those are counterpoints to A.I.
• 1:00:44
  's weak spots.
• 1:00:45
  So AI does not do critical thinking.
• 1:00:48
  AI cannot use judgment or ethics or make decisions.
• 1:00:51
  And AI is not creative.
• 1:00:53
  So in turn, with this big rise of AI requirements, we're also seeing an elevation in the human skills that employers want to see.
• 1:01:03
  So I think it's almost better to look at it that way when you're editing your resume, when you're thinking about your narrative and your story that you want to tell a company, your brand, your...
• 1:01:12
  is what advanced human skills do you have?
• 1:01:16
  And really putting a pinpoint and a label on those because that is highly desired by employers.
• 1:01:20
  How do you show those though?
• 1:01:22
  There's a lot of different ways you can showcase those.
• 1:01:24
  Like, for example, if you're somebody who promotes others, you're using those are those are advanced human skills.
• 1:01:31
  Sales, that's persuasive communication.
• 1:01:32
  That's an advanced human skill.
• 1:01:34
  If you're somebody who, you know, is like a team trainer, a team leader, that's training is an advanced skill set.
• 1:01:41
  There's plenty of human skills to articulate on your resume.
• 1:01:43
  I think people overlook it.
• 1:01:45
  Yeah, I was going to say, I think I think that people just do these things.
• 1:01:49
  And they don't realize how valuable it is to articulate that they do these things.
• 1:01:53
  Correct.
• 1:01:54
  And you know who does these things really well?
• 1:01:55
  Women.
• 1:01:56
  Women are really good at the soft skills, the emotional labor.
• 1:02:00
  And that's about to become high value in the workplace.
• 1:02:04
  The question is, are employers going to compensate for the skills that are typically seen as lower value than a techie?
• 1:02:11
  technical skills.
• 1:02:12
  But I do think that these emotional skills are about to become incredibly valuable as new technology disrupts teams.
• 1:02:19
  We need the emotional stability.
• 1:02:20
  We need the person who can be calm in the chaos and can navigate ambiguity and can support the team emotionally.
• 1:02:27
  I think those skill sets are about to become extremely valuable.
• 1:02:31
  It's so interesting how like those skills in my mind are exceptionally valuable, but you're saying that they're perceived right now as less valuable, even though, even though if you look at there's studies that I won't have off top of my head, but I've seen these studies before and we can Google them and link them later.
• 1:02:50
  Women who have all of these incredible skills make for better investors because they don't make these rash emotional decisions, which lead to better returns.
• 1:03:00
  I love that.
• 1:03:02
  But it's interesting how even though it's proof, it's like there's a financial gain from having some of these skills.
• 1:03:09
  They're still not looked at as the most important thing.
• 1:03:13
  But it's almost like AI removing a lot of the need for some technical skills is forcing us to look at the other things that a human brings to the table and is highlighting.
• 1:03:25
  all of these skills.
• 1:03:27
  They should be compensated more.
• 1:03:29
  They should be.
• 1:03:30
  And there should be a focus on improving these skills.
• 1:03:36
  Like if you are too emotional and you are making all these dumb ass decisions in your business, I don't want to hire you.
• 1:03:44
  Like I really don't want to, I want somebody who is like level-headed, who is not rash, who does not act out.
• 1:03:50
  I don't know why that's
• 1:03:52
  a confusing thing to like wrap your head around.
• 1:03:54
  It's so obvious to me.
• 1:03:57
  But this is, so this is where the job market you think is heading.
• 1:04:00
  These are the skills that people have to focus on.
• 1:04:01
  Yes.
• 1:04:02
  Advanced human skills, advanced interpersonal skills, people first leadership skills.
• 1:04:07
  What was it?
• 1:04:07
  There was one more data point that you had brought from Zip.
• 1:04:10
  What was the other one?
• 1:04:11
  Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  So 74% of employers view AI as a baseline requirement for a role.
• 1:04:19
  Oh, okay.
• 1:04:19
  So what we were talking about before, you have to figure out AI.
• 1:04:24
  With AI moving so quickly, what are some trends you see in the next six months?
• 1:04:29
  I know it's very hard to forecast because it is moving very quickly.
• 1:04:32
  The next six months to a year in terms of jobs, hiring, what work will look like for an employee right now?
• 1:04:39
  I think we'll see an increase in asynchronous work opportunities.
• 1:04:44
  And I get asked about this a lot, but I think we will see an increase.
• 1:04:48
  And I'm hoping that along with that increase, we see an increase in clarity around employer expectations.
• 1:04:53
  Because there is a gap right now for asynchronous workers and in-office workers, really not knowing exactly what the expectations are.
• 1:05:02
  So I'm hoping that employers can get on board with outcomes over hours rather than monitoring keystrokes and monitoring...
• 1:05:09
  Are you asleep?
• 1:05:10
  Are you at your computer?
• 1:05:11
  What are you doing?
• 1:05:12
  It's about outcomes, not hours.
• 1:05:13
  So what results do you want to see from me?
• 1:05:15
  Be very clear about what you need to see from me and I will deliver on that.
• 1:05:21
  So when employers focus on outcomes and move away from, you know, monitoring productivity like that, we actually see better results for everyone, the business, the employees, everyone.
• 1:05:33
  It's surprising to me that we're still here, to be honest.
• 1:05:37
  I mean, I thought COVID taught people a thing or two.
• 1:05:41
  So we have not really gotten that much better when it comes to, because why would you care about somebody's keystrokes?
• 1:05:49
  Why would you?
• 1:05:53
  I don't know.
• 1:05:53
  I just feel like, I don't even know if some of these companies are still in business.
• 1:05:57
  It's like, like in all seriousness, hopefully people who are listening to this understand that just because a company's big, honestly, does not mean you should go work for them.
• 1:06:11
  Like that doesn't mean they know what they're doing either.
• 1:06:13
  And I think that's actually the biggest issue.
• 1:06:14
  You feel like a company's big, they're established, they must have their shit figured out.
• 1:06:21
  Definitely not.
• 1:06:22
  That is not.
• 1:06:24
  So like, but I'm saying this because say you get hired and a manager for a company is, you know, is, is, is saying, well, you know, this is the way it's always been done.
• 1:06:32
  Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:06:33
  We, you need to be sitting in office for eight hours a day.
• 1:06:36
  I don't care.
• 1:06:37
  You still have your KPIs, but that achieving 110% of the target doesn't matter if you're not sitting in office eight hours a day.
• 1:06:43
  I'm like,
• 1:06:44
  Bro, don't work for this person.
• 1:06:46
  Like, maybe take the job to pay the bills.
• 1:06:48
  I don't want to, you know, everyone's situation is different.
• 1:06:50
  But please understand that, like, some employers are going to gaslight you into thinking that this dumbass way of managing is the norm.
• 1:06:59
  And it's not.
• 1:07:00
  And it's not good.
• 1:07:01
  And I just want more people to be aware of that so they don't.
• 1:07:03
  Stay in shitty companies and shitty bosses for too long.
• 1:07:07
  Well, I think this is where like I call this a values first job search.
• 1:07:10
  And actually right now people think it's counterintuitive to narrow down their job search because there's less opportunities or less perceived opportunities.
• 1:07:16
  So people just apply for anything.
• 1:07:19
  That is the wrong strategy, even in a tight market.
• 1:07:21
  So you want to actually narrow down your search.
• 1:07:24
  and only apply for roles that fit your core values, that meet your non-negotiables, and that have some of your nice-to-haves.
• 1:07:31
  And that requires self-reflection and for you as a job seeker to sit down and codify these things.
• 1:07:36
  Like, I need a remote work environment.
• 1:07:38
  I want a boss who knows that
• 1:07:40
  It's OK to have a life.
• 1:07:41
  You know, for me, I always look for women in leadership.
• 1:07:44
  I'm looking for that.
• 1:07:45
  I'm looking for does this workplace have affinity groups that I can join and be a part of?
• 1:07:49
  Does this workplace offer me flexibility that I need?
• 1:07:52
  You know, and just really like carving out all my non-negotiables on a list helps me narrow down opportunities that aren't right for me.
• 1:08:00
  So it's just as important to reject opportunities that aren't right for you as it is to apply for the ones that are fit.
• 1:08:05
  I think that people may not even know what, you know, as you're going through this list, you're naming things that don't even know half of them exist.
• 1:08:11
  So what are the things, because I don't think that everybody knows what to ask for when they're first applying for a job, especially your first job at a college, maybe if you're experienced, you know, but like, what are the things that are possible that you can start to look for in a company?
• 1:08:25
  I always start with leadership style.
• 1:08:27
  For me, that's so important because you spend a lot of time with your boss and that's where friction is rooted in the boss-employee relationship.
• 1:08:34
  So you got to self-reflect what type of boss is good for me.
• 1:08:38
  For me, I need somebody who can let me thrive and be autonomous, but who also sets expectations as well.
• 1:08:45
  So I'm somebody who I'm really good at big picture thinking.
• 1:08:48
  I'm less good at honing in on the details.
• 1:08:50
  Yeah.
• 1:08:51
  So I like to be able to have the freedom to innovate, come up with ideas.
• 1:08:55
  So I need a boss who can appreciate that.
• 1:08:58
  And maybe it's a balance.
• 1:08:59
  Maybe it's a boss who is more detail-oriented so I can have the freedom to have the bigger ideas.
• 1:09:05
  Or maybe it's a boss who can cultivate my strengths.
• 1:09:08
  It depends on what you need.
• 1:09:09
  Some people need a boss who is a micromanager because that's what they need.
• 1:09:13
  They need to stay on task.
• 1:09:15
  So know yourself.
• 1:09:16
  Know what you need in a boss.
• 1:09:17
  Know what you need in a communication style across your team.
• 1:09:20
  Know what your core values are.
• 1:09:22
  If you can't work for a company that doesn't care about the environment, know that about yourself because you're going to end up miserable.
• 1:09:28
  So a lot of this has to do with you doing some inner work first.
• 1:09:30
  A hundred percent.
• 1:09:32
  And this is advice I never got applying for jobs.
• 1:09:37
  I just applied.
• 1:09:38
  You just were like, what's going to pay me money and what's a recognizable name of a company?
• 1:09:42
  Straight up.
• 1:09:43
  Yeah.
• 1:09:43
  That's how you start.
• 1:09:45
  That's really how you start because I think that there's, when you're first...
• 1:09:50
  I like the advice of apply for a job before you need it so that you're not operating from a place of scarcity and you're not operating from a place of I'm stressed out.
• 1:09:59
  I'm just going to take the first thing because I have to put food on the table and pay rent.
• 1:10:03
  And I mean, we have to be respectful of everybody's situation.
• 1:10:08
  It's a little bit different.
• 1:10:09
  Sometimes you do have to take a job just to take the job and it's not a great job.
• 1:10:15
  It's okay.
• 1:10:16
  There's, there's like, I'd rather somebody take a job that's not perfect, but then, okay, I'm paying the bills, you know, rent's taken care of.
• 1:10:25
  Now let me go through this, this exercise.
• 1:10:28
  Cause you, you can't, I'm not a big fan of, of pride and ego when it comes to making money and supporting your family and supporting yourself.
• 1:10:35
  Like you have to make money.
• 1:10:37
  But long-term, cause I don't want people to say, oh, this is a privileged place to be in being able to think of all these different things.
• 1:10:43
  No, I get it.
• 1:10:44
  Deal with the reality you're in right now, but then architect a better future for yourself meaningfully.
• 1:10:50
  And it is privileged to be able to job search from a place that is values first.
• 1:10:55
  However, I have clients from all over the spectrum, entry level, mid-level.
• 1:11:00
  And we've used this approach with job seekers and it has worked.
• 1:11:04
  Them going through the lens of what opportunity is right for me and what opportunity do I want rather than just applying for anything randomly.
• 1:11:12
  It does work.
• 1:11:13
  When it comes to AI and job applications, how should you use it?
• 1:11:20
  Thoughtfully.
• 1:11:21
  Not just apply.
• 1:11:23
  Because at this point, in all seriousness, I've thought about this quite a bit.
• 1:11:27
  You could go to Codex or Cloud Code or Perplexity or GrokBot or whatever you want to use.
• 1:11:33
  And you could say, hey, these are my values.
• 1:11:37
  You could do the work and then put them into some sort of LLM and be like, now go apply to 2,000 jobs with my values.
• 1:11:46
  All with, all with...
• 1:11:48
  a hyper-personalized cover letter and resume with all the right keywords and everything like that.
• 1:11:56
  And there's going to be some people, not everybody's doing this, obviously, but some people are definitely doing this.
• 1:12:01
  So I guess the question is, is this a good strategy?
• 1:12:07
  Is this a bad strategy?
• 1:12:08
  But knowing that some people are doing it, regardless whether or not they think it's a good or bad strategy, it's going to happen.
• 1:12:14
  How do you differentiate yourself from somebody who's doing that?
• 1:12:17
  Totally.
• 1:12:18
  I can tell you what's working now for my job seekers.
• 1:12:20
  And what's working is to use AI as a strategic thought partner, not as a final answer.
• 1:12:25
  So, for example, the value that job seekers find in working with me is I write resumes in compelling language.
• 1:12:36
  When you have AI write your resume for you, and as a recruiter I look at them all the time, I see the AI generated resumes,
• 1:12:41
  They all sound the same and they're all generic.
• 1:12:45
  Like it'll say something like, I efficiently produce results at scale.
• 1:12:49
  That doesn't give me any information.
• 1:12:52
  Whereas when I'm handwriting a resume for a job seeker, I'm interjecting, I'm concluding their unique human skills.
• 1:13:00
  I'm writing the how behind it.
• 1:13:03
  And I always say use your resume as an opportunity to showcase your writing ability and your communication style.
• 1:13:08
  When you have AI write your resume, that tells me nothing about your communication style except that you sound robotic.
• 1:13:14
  So I'm a communicator.
• 1:13:15
  I'm a writer.
• 1:13:16
  So I believe the resume needs to be an opportunity to showcase your authentic communication skills when you write your about me section, your areas of expertise, even your bullets.
• 1:13:25
  All of those are opportunities to capture the human who's going to be reading it.
• 1:13:29
  That doesn't mean your resume is not also optimized for the ATS, the applicant tracking system.
• 1:13:34
  It needs to do both nowadays.
• 1:13:35
  It needs to be keyword optimized and compelling at the same time.
• 1:13:40
  So it's okay to use AI to help.
• 1:13:43
  Kind of like that 20, 60, 20 thing.
• 1:13:46
  20% of prompting input, 60% of, okay, do the work AI, then 20% of review, final touches, tell a story.
• 1:13:54
  Is there other ways to, and I would assume as a recruiter, if you are hiring and you see pure AI resumes, do you just like throw them out now?
• 1:14:05
  It doesn't tell me anything about you.
• 1:14:07
  It's not like it kills the chance.
• 1:14:10
  It's just you don't stand out.
• 1:14:12
  You don't stand out with an AI-generated resume because I don't have any idea who you are and what you could be bringing to the table.
• 1:14:18
  It doesn't incentivize me to bring you in.
• 1:14:20
  I will say, though, ZipRecruiter data shows that job seekers who used AI to help them through the process were twice as likely to land an offer as those who did not use AI.
• 1:14:33
  It's just because they become more efficient and helps them with the research process and helps them tailor the resume to a degree, but they still use like that.
• 1:14:39
  Is there other ways to stand out to like verify that you're a real human?
• 1:14:44
  Do people start sending videos or other things like that as part of the application or is that too much?
• 1:14:49
  If the employer asks for it, if they request that type of connection, if they have an opportunity for you to send a video, do it.
• 1:14:55
  I wouldn't necessarily recommend it just going for it.
• 1:14:59
  But if you're applying on like ZipRecruiter, we have Be Seen First, which allows you to send a short video message to the employer.
• 1:15:05
  And it also bumps you to the top of their screening list.
• 1:15:07
  So you can send a message that says, hey, here's what I'm really good at.
• 1:15:10
  Here's why I'm excited about this role.
• 1:15:12
  And that puts a face to a name and really does, I think, make for a more exciting introduction to the employer.
• 1:15:17
  Yeah.
• 1:15:18
  And what would be the number one thing that people screw up when they're applying for a job?
• 1:15:23
  Sending in a generic resume.
• 1:15:26
  I still see it all the time.
• 1:15:28
  Just sending a resume that's generic.
• 1:15:30
  Yeah, maybe there are one or two skill sets in common with the job, but that is not enough in this market.
• 1:15:35
  You have to be very specialized for your role.
• 1:15:38
  I think a lot of people are saying like...
• 1:15:41
  I'm just going to have a resume that speaks to all the different things that I do and somebody's going to be into that.
• 1:15:47
  That doesn't work.
• 1:15:48
  You have to go hyper specialize in terms of the roles you're applying for and your resume.
• 1:15:52
  Hyper specialize.
• 1:15:53
  Don't have a generalist resume.
• 1:15:55
  Now, on the flip side of this, we've focused a lot on, you know, giving somebody who's applying for a job or navigating their career, all the different tools and strategies.
• 1:16:04
  But let's talk to the hiring person right now.
• 1:16:09
  How do they hire?
• 1:16:11
  How do they find the right talent?
• 1:16:12
  How do they hire?
• 1:16:12
  How do they deal with somebody who has a Mosaic career, who doesn't want to be in the company for more than maybe a year or two years?
• 1:16:20
  Like these are all difficult things that myself, other people that are hiring, other founders, other CEOs, other managers, they're all dealing with.
• 1:16:26
  And I don't think, I mean, some people are doing it better than others, but it's still very difficult.
• 1:16:31
  I love this question, advice for hiring managers.
• 1:16:34
  I think make sure that your job description is clear and your scope is clear.
• 1:16:39
  I think there's a lot of roles that get posted without intention.
• 1:16:43
  So you need to really narrow down, like what are the skill sets that this role needs?
• 1:16:49
  It requires a lot of thought and a lot of strategy and a lot of work with the HR team to say, what's the why behind this role, number one?
• 1:16:57
  Number two, what are the top three skills this person needs?
• 1:17:00
  And number three, are there gaps on the team currently that we need to fill to make this team the best it can possibly be, whether those are soft skills or hard skills?
• 1:17:08
  So you really need to be intentional as a hiring manager about the skill sets that you're trying to bring in, because I think a lot of times it is way too broad.
• 1:17:15
  I see job descriptions today that list 10 different skill sets.
• 1:17:18
  It's like this job is for three people, not one person.
• 1:17:23
  So I think you really need to identify your needs and who it is that you're looking for before you can accurately recruit.
• 1:17:29
  Because just putting a generic job post, that's a little bit lazy.
• 1:17:32
  Yes.
• 1:17:33
  And then people complain when they can't find the right talent.
• 1:17:36
  Exactly.
• 1:17:37
  You're attracting like four different kinds of people.
• 1:17:40
  So like, of course, you're not going to find the right person because each one of those things in the job post is like a different job.
• 1:17:45
  So you're going to find four different people that are all good at four different things and then you're upset that they can't do everything.
• 1:17:51
  And it's confusing.
• 1:17:51
  Yeah, it's like, who do I bring on?
• 1:17:53
  Like, what's happening here?
• 1:17:55
  How do employers navigate
• 1:17:59
  the fact that people want to switch jobs and have mosaic non-linear careers?
• 1:18:04
  I think employers are starting to recognize that as the new normal.
• 1:18:08
  I think it's about accepting that this is what career paths are going to look like.
• 1:18:14
  It happens at the same time that employers are starting to normalize and accept career gaps, which used to be looked at as, how could you possibly have a career gap?
• 1:18:24
  Now it's, how could you not have a career gap?
• 1:18:26
  Which shows that you are ambitious about your career now.
• 1:18:29
  Yes, yes.
• 1:18:30
  You should have a gap if you pursued entrepreneurship or if you were a caretaker, a caregiver, parental leave, like own your gaps because your gaps also teach you valuable skills that you can bring into the narrative of your next interview.
• 1:18:47
  And if you're worried about people quiet quitting on you.
• 1:18:52
  we just sort of touched on this before, but ultimately it's on you to make sure that you know where your employees want to end up.
• 1:19:00
  So they're quiet quitting on you more often than not.
• 1:19:03
  It's like a lack of you communicating with them.
• 1:19:07
  Is that more or less correct?
• 1:19:08
  Yes, there's a lack of understanding.
• 1:19:09
  There's a lack of communication between the employer and the employee as to what's actually going on there.
• 1:19:15
  So the other thing that people think about a lot, obviously, is money.
• 1:19:18
  And that example that I gave earlier of that director getting me to apply as an external candidate, air quotes, external candidate, which would give me, you know, a 20 grand bump as opposed to like a $5,000 bump in salary, I don't know.
• 1:19:36
  That was great.
• 1:19:37
  And I feel like a lot of people think that if they switch companies, switch jobs, they're going to get these huge pay bumps and pay increases.
• 1:19:47
  Is that the truth or is that a thing anymore?
• 1:19:51
  Like if you want to have this mosaic career, are you getting a huge bump?
• 1:19:55
  Are you getting a huge pay increase?
• 1:19:57
  Or how do you think through the financials of it?
• 1:19:58
  Because financials motivate a lot of people to do stuff as well.
• 1:20:01
  I don't want people to quit a job if not for the right reasons.
• 1:20:06
  Totally.
• 1:20:06
  And I always recommend don't quit until you have something lined up.
• 1:20:09
  Right.
• 1:20:09
  The best time to search is while you have a job.
• 1:20:12
  So that's number one.
• 1:20:14
  It really depends on the industry.
• 1:20:16
  It depends on the role.
• 1:20:17
  There are opportunities to job hop and make more.
• 1:20:19
  But right now, because of the volatility of the market.
• 1:20:23
  There are good reasons to stay, to job hug, as we call it.
• 1:20:27
  So according to a recent Zip Recruiter survey, job hoppers think that they're going to get 20 plus percent increase when they hop, but it's actually looking more like 4.4 percent in the reality of the current market.
• 1:20:40
  And then that is role dependent, industry dependent.
• 1:20:43
  So what you can do is go hard for a raise internally, advocate for yourself internally, know your strengths, know how you add value, try to get on bigger projects that are tied directly to company goals for the year.
• 1:20:56
  And then you have a clear business case that you can present to your boss to say, hey, I want a raise of X dollars.
• 1:21:02
  Do your market research beforehand, of course.
• 1:21:05
  Give them a number.
• 1:21:06
  Make it hard for them to say no.
• 1:21:07
  Let them tell you no.
• 1:21:08
  But they're not going to come to you passively with, here's a really big raise.
• 1:21:13
  Here's a promotion.
• 1:21:14
  You have to proactively go after that and build your case.
• 1:21:17
  So switching jobs won't always have this huge increase.
• 1:21:22
  So if you are going to switch jobs, do it for the right reasons.
• 1:21:25
  Do it for the right reasons.
• 1:21:27
  Values first job search, an opportunity you're really aligned with and excited about.
• 1:21:31
  Because if you just hop to just hop, the grass isn't necessarily going to be greener.
• 1:21:35
  I love it.
• 1:21:36
  Where can people connect with you, follow you on social?
• 1:21:39
  Where do you want to send them?
• 1:21:40
  So you can follow us on Instagram at ZipRecruiter.
• 1:21:43
  You can follow me at A Power Mood on Instagram and TikTok.
• 1:21:47
  Awesome.
• 1:21:47
  Okay.
• 1:21:47
  Last question.
• 1:21:49
  It can be career advice.
• 1:21:50
  It can be life advice.
• 1:21:51
  If you had to go back and tell, you know, 20-year-old Sam the most important piece of advice you've ever learned, what would it be and why?
• 1:21:57
  Build your dream life.
• 1:21:59
  The rest will follow.