Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / Chasing The Gambling Dream: Jim Monos, NBA Top Shot and English Accents

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Chasing The Gambling Dream: Jim Monos, NBA Top Shot and English Accents · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast from the Action Network.
0:12
Speaker 1: I am Chad Millman and listen, folks, the betting world
0:19
Speaker 1: is a buzz right now. You think after the NFLCN ends,
0:22
Speaker 1: things would calm down a little bit, but it has not.
0:25
Speaker 1: The universe of speculation and risk and investment is spinning
0:31
Speaker 1: at a Tasmanian devil pace. Not just memorable or you,
0:35
Speaker 1: not just trading cards. A lot of professional betters are
0:39
Speaker 1: at the center of this story. We're gonna talk about
0:42
Speaker 1: it in a little bit. Dan Ravel is gonna come on.
0:44
Speaker 1: He's gonna tell us about a company that has done
0:47
Speaker 1: more than sixty three million dollars in sales in the
0:49
Speaker 1: past thirty days selling digital highlights. It's called top Shot.
0:55
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot about it. It is the
0:57
Speaker 1: only thing that's being discussed in action networks. Like actually,
1:00
Speaker 1: right now, everybody is jumping into the top Shop pool.
1:03
Speaker 1: But first, m b FF, Simon Hunter, he's back. And
1:08
Speaker 1: now now you're just joining us because you love us
1:12
Speaker 1: even though NFL season is over. Since you're English, I'll
1:16
Speaker 1: give you this Hello Simon, Hello, Chad, Yeah, man, it's
1:21
Speaker 1: it might be the off season, buddy, but there's so
1:24
Speaker 1: much moving around QB movement. It's uh, it's as if
1:27
Speaker 1: the season is not there's just so much going on
1:29
Speaker 1: right now. Well, hold on, that English accent you just
1:33
Speaker 1: did was quite good. I got a lot of real
1:35
Speaker 1: British accent. If you need me to talk the whole
1:37
Speaker 1: podcast with a British accent, I could talk the whole show.
1:40
Speaker 1: It just would be weird because it's like it's just
1:43
Speaker 1: not normal for me because mainly America at this point.
1:46
Speaker 1: But I can be British. If you need to be British, Chad,
1:48
Speaker 1: I'll be British. Holy, that's incredible. Yeah, I just don't
1:53
Speaker 1: bust it out. Like if I was at balls with
1:55
Speaker 1: girls and we're talking to do a little bar. I'll
1:57
Speaker 1: talk with this accent and see if it'll work, coup.
2:00
Speaker 1: But sometimes when I drink too much, it slips back
2:02
Speaker 1: to American. So it's only really good for when I'm sober.
2:05
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it sounds like I'm talking to a
2:07
Speaker 1: different person right now. I'm not even it's weird. It's
2:10
Speaker 1: really weird, and uh, I only talk with it when
2:12
Speaker 1: I'm like back kind of it's definitely different. Well, people
2:15
Speaker 1: don't understand that you grew up in England, that you
2:17
Speaker 1: spent a long time there, right, Yeah, it's definitely different
2:20
Speaker 1: being back and forth from America to England. It's definitely
2:22
Speaker 1: switching up to different parts of your brand. I'm sure
2:25
Speaker 1: you're like the Meryl Streep of gambling. The way you
2:27
Speaker 1: can do accents, it's amazing. Well, yeah, if we ever
2:29
Speaker 1: do Premier League soccer, I'll just do that accent the
2:32
Speaker 1: entire time, as long as we talk American football, just
2:34
Speaker 1: do American accent. What region of of England? What kind
2:40
Speaker 1: of British accent was that was that? Was that posh?
2:44
Speaker 1: Was that kind of like northern Like my family is
2:48
Speaker 1: from Burnley, which is like it's like forty five minutes
2:51
Speaker 1: above Manchester. It's not it's it's not a place American
2:55
Speaker 1: tourists ever go. It's kind of like the true England.
2:58
Speaker 1: It's just like an old factory town. Um that's pretty
3:02
Speaker 1: like pretty big city there in the Premier League, so
3:04
Speaker 1: they're pretty big. But yeah, it's not a place Americans
3:06
Speaker 1: whatever visit. Well, listen, we're gonna talk about some NFL
3:10
Speaker 1: stuff today anyways, because a real live, former NFL personnel
3:15
Speaker 1: director is joining us on the show. His name is
3:17
Speaker 1: Jim monus Uh and he spent nearly two decades in
3:21
Speaker 1: the NFL, including several years with the Bills. He was
3:24
Speaker 1: with the Eagles, he was with the Saints. Jim has
3:27
Speaker 1: one dream, one dream, Simon. He wants to become a
3:31
Speaker 1: professional better. He's been making Power rankings. He's been shooting
3:35
Speaker 1: his shot. He's been going to the Simon Hunter School
3:38
Speaker 1: of betting, shooting his shot. He will tell a story
3:41
Speaker 1: about a big win that paid for a big, big
3:44
Speaker 1: day in his life. But Jim, why are you giving
3:47
Speaker 1: up a glamor's career in the NFL. Explain yourself? Who
3:50
Speaker 1: are you? Why are you on this podcast? What's funny is, Simon,
3:54
Speaker 1: I was working for a company in Australia in the
3:56
Speaker 1: XFL doing their statistics. I was the XFL Dad analyst
4:00
Speaker 1: for a company called Champion Data. They do rugby over
4:03
Speaker 1: in Australia, and the XFL hired them to do all
4:06
Speaker 1: their football stats. But they don't really know much about
4:08
Speaker 1: American football. So I'm always fascinating now with these accidents.
4:12
Speaker 1: After working with these guys in Australia, give people a
4:15
Speaker 1: little bit of your background so they can get more
4:18
Speaker 1: details on the NFL personnel journey. So I started as
4:22
Speaker 1: an area scout with the Philadelphia Eagles in the early
4:24
Speaker 1: two thousands and went to the Saints as a Southeast
4:27
Speaker 1: scout and then got a nice promotion to Buffalo as
4:30
Speaker 1: the director of player personnel. So I was in the
4:32
Speaker 1: NFL for seventeen years. After we hired Sean McDermott. When
4:36
Speaker 1: I say we, the owners the Pagoulas, myself and Doug
4:39
Speaker 1: Willy who was the general manager. The four of us
4:41
Speaker 1: did the coaching search, did the interviews, and we hired
4:44
Speaker 1: Sean McDermott, who had worked with in Philadelphia for a
4:47
Speaker 1: couple of years. Always stayed in touch with Shawn, you know,
4:49
Speaker 1: seeing him at the combine over the years, and knew
4:52
Speaker 1: he was ready for you know, for the interview for sure,
4:54
Speaker 1: and he blew everybody away, got the job. But Sean
4:58
Speaker 1: and Doug Willie never quite hit it off. So the
5:01
Speaker 1: rule is obviously gave it power to Sean, and Sean
5:05
Speaker 1: brought in his GM and that kicked us out. So
5:08
Speaker 1: these last four years, I've been trying to get back
5:11
Speaker 1: in the NFL, but realizing that it might not happen.
5:14
Speaker 1: UM really have taken up always loved gambling, did it
5:18
Speaker 1: as a kid high school, but really got back into
5:21
Speaker 1: it now that it was becoming blowing up everywhere, and
5:24
Speaker 1: really got into the analytic side of gambling because I
5:27
Speaker 1: know that my knowledge just picking games doesn't work. I've
5:30
Speaker 1: tried that, you know, back in high school and college.
5:33
Speaker 1: I I can't do it. I tried this analytic approach
5:37
Speaker 1: where I used stats and waited them to come up
5:40
Speaker 1: with my own spreads, and it's been pretty solid. I'm
5:42
Speaker 1: not gonna sit there and say, you know, it's like
5:44
Speaker 1: it hits around the sixty range. It's nothing. You know,
5:47
Speaker 1: it doesn't blow you away, but it's keeps you, keeps
5:50
Speaker 1: you going, keeps it fun for me. And um, I
5:52
Speaker 1: just enjoy every part of gambling. Where did you grow up?
5:55
Speaker 1: In Central Pennsylvania? So right near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania where a
5:59
Speaker 1: penn National was the horse track. Um, you know that
6:02
Speaker 1: I grew up going to and UH when I was
6:04
Speaker 1: eighteen and learned a lot at the horse track and
6:06
Speaker 1: learn how to drink cheap beer and make cheap bets
6:09
Speaker 1: and have some fun. And I always just love you know,
6:12
Speaker 1: I don't know a ton about horses, but I love
6:14
Speaker 1: gambling on it and just like anything else, and it's
6:16
Speaker 1: just it's another another It's just more action. Man, you
6:22
Speaker 1: lived the life like you're in the NFL. What are
6:24
Speaker 1: you trying to bring from that to the gambling world,
6:26
Speaker 1: because a lot of guys I talked to they don't
6:28
Speaker 1: have that background. And I do think it is kind
6:31
Speaker 1: of two different muscles where if you know both, if
6:34
Speaker 1: you're good at gambling and you were in that world,
6:36
Speaker 1: I mean, I can imagine you're only gonna get way
6:38
Speaker 1: better bet in the NFL because you do know what
6:40
Speaker 1: to look for and different things to look for different players.
6:43
Speaker 1: So I'll just wonder how you're gonna incorporate that to
6:45
Speaker 1: everything you're doing now with your numbers, you know, I
6:47
Speaker 1: really have, so I think injuries obviously, the health in
6:51
Speaker 1: the NFL, especially the playoffs, I think you really need
6:54
Speaker 1: to pay attention to the healthy teams. And when you
6:57
Speaker 1: see a team like Tampa who was peaking right at
6:59
Speaker 1: the end of the year, wasn't just them peaking talent wise.
7:02
Speaker 1: If you looked at their roster, I know their safeties
7:04
Speaker 1: were banged up a little bit against Buffalo, but there
7:06
Speaker 1: was a reason they got those guys back they were
7:09
Speaker 1: preparing to get them back for the Super Bowl, and
7:11
Speaker 1: I just think it's and you look at the Chiefs,
7:13
Speaker 1: it goes the other way a little bit. Where they
7:15
Speaker 1: were they were losing some guys, especially on upfront offensive line,
7:18
Speaker 1: which is a major thing that we know that backup
7:22
Speaker 1: offensive lineman there's a big drop off. You can you
7:25
Speaker 1: can survive some other positions, but offensive tackle, that's one
7:28
Speaker 1: you need to pay attention to. And it showed up.
7:31
Speaker 1: So I think I think that part of the knowledge
7:33
Speaker 1: of the game helps. But honestly, you can sit there
7:37
Speaker 1: and know all the x's and knows you want, and
7:40
Speaker 1: all the personnel you want, but when you put that
7:42
Speaker 1: point spread involved, it breaks it. It brings everybody back
7:45
Speaker 1: on the same playing field. I think it makes you
7:47
Speaker 1: can take Bill Belichick or any of us and when
7:51
Speaker 1: it comes to gambling where it humbles you. I really
7:53
Speaker 1: think that, and I think that's why I'm so fascinated
7:56
Speaker 1: with it, because it's not about how much you know.
7:59
Speaker 1: It's really about playing numbers. It really is when you
8:02
Speaker 1: were a personnel director, I want to pull back for
8:05
Speaker 1: one second. Give me your biggest find, what you are
8:10
Speaker 1: most proud of. Give me your Biggest Miss. I can't
8:16
Speaker 1: believe we didn't draft this guy. Well, the Biggest MS
8:19
Speaker 1: is so easy and it haunts me every night, But
8:22
Speaker 1: we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and the Bagoulas wanted
8:26
Speaker 1: to um. They made it clear to us that Terry Pagoula,
8:30
Speaker 1: the owner, loved Patrick Mahomes, loved him. So when we
8:34
Speaker 1: did our whole all our research and all our studies,
8:36
Speaker 1: our whole scouting staff, are coaching staff, me included, none
8:40
Speaker 1: of us had that conviction on Mahomes that the owner did,
8:43
Speaker 1: and it, you know, it drives all of us crazy now.
8:47
Speaker 1: And we've made that trade with Kansas City, and obviously
8:50
Speaker 1: with that trade we got Trey White and the Bills
8:52
Speaker 1: us that AMMO. The next year we were gone, but
8:54
Speaker 1: they used that AMMO to go up and get Josh Allen,
8:57
Speaker 1: So it wasn't a complete disastrous trade. But when you
9:00
Speaker 1: look at it, you passed on Michael Jordan pretty much,
9:03
Speaker 1: and that just haunts you as a you know, as
9:05
Speaker 1: a competitor, as an evaluator, like, why didn't I see this?
9:10
Speaker 1: You know, you saw the great plays with Mahomes at
9:12
Speaker 1: Texas Tech. You saw all these throws, but you're thinking
9:15
Speaker 1: to yourself, it's the Big twelve. Is this really going
9:18
Speaker 1: to translate? Is he really gonna be able to run
9:20
Speaker 1: around and throw across his body, throw into coverage, all
9:24
Speaker 1: these crazy throws and he's doing it, And you know,
9:26
Speaker 1: it's just a good lesson learned for me and really
9:28
Speaker 1: has helped me. You know, I've become obsessed with studying
9:31
Speaker 1: quarterbacks now. I watch every NFL game on that NFL
9:33
Speaker 1: Game Pass, have my own grading scale for quarterbacks and
9:36
Speaker 1: it's really helped me. Um, try to find out why
9:40
Speaker 1: I didn't really have the conviction on the homes that
9:43
Speaker 1: Terry Bagoula had and best find that's a you know
9:46
Speaker 1: that best fine things a tricky one because I don't
9:48
Speaker 1: like to say, like, as a staff, you make decisions together. Um.
9:52
Speaker 1: I thought we made a nice pick the one year
9:54
Speaker 1: with Ron Darby the defensive back. It we didn't have
9:57
Speaker 1: a first round pick. We took Darby in the second
9:59
Speaker 1: round and he was a really good corner and still
10:01
Speaker 1: playing well for Washington. I thought that was a solid pick.
10:04
Speaker 1: Matt Milano was a linebacker we drafted our last draft,
10:08
Speaker 1: and Dion Dawkins, a tackle from Temple. Um. I thought
10:11
Speaker 1: those were some underrated picks we made in our last draft,
10:14
Speaker 1: and you know those guys are good players for Buffalo.
10:16
Speaker 1: So you know players like that are fun, Simon, And
10:19
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now that Patrick Mahomes making
10:25
Speaker 1: those ridiculous passes, even the ones that were incomplete, we're
10:31
Speaker 1: gut wrenching lee painful because we both had over four
10:34
Speaker 1: and a half sacks in the Super Bowl and how
10:37
Speaker 1: many times did he come close to getting sacked and
10:39
Speaker 1: get out of it? Simon, Like that was disgusting what
10:43
Speaker 1: happened to us in that game for sure, and not dude,
10:46
Speaker 1: I wouldn't beat myself up too much about not getting
10:48
Speaker 1: my homes. Literally, we see teams giving out first round
10:51
Speaker 1: picks for offensive linement, for cornerbacks. Did any team trade
10:55
Speaker 1: up to first round picks or three first round picks
10:57
Speaker 1: to go get this kid in the top two picks? No,
10:59
Speaker 1: we like I think thirty other thirty one other teams
11:02
Speaker 1: were in the same position as you. Is that you
11:05
Speaker 1: really never know because I'm right there with you. I
11:07
Speaker 1: scout quarterbacks. I think that the line, offensive line, these
11:10
Speaker 1: are some of the most important positions in football. And
11:13
Speaker 1: I love watching film on guys, especially coming up to
11:16
Speaker 1: the draft, and I remember watching this kid's tape and thinking, man,
11:20
Speaker 1: he looks all right, but does he have the body?
11:22
Speaker 1: Can this kid take hits? I mean, he looked like
11:24
Speaker 1: you weighed a hundred forty pounds of college and sure enough, Man,
11:28
Speaker 1: he's really changed NFL. So I wouldn't be myself up
11:31
Speaker 1: too much about that, but I think you're dead on
11:33
Speaker 1: man about It's That's what I was asking a question
11:36
Speaker 1: about what you're bringing from NFL because I think a
11:39
Speaker 1: lot of it goes into the numbers. And that's good
11:41
Speaker 1: that you're taking that into account because the spread, it's
11:43
Speaker 1: just a game changer where you're you're literally trying to
11:46
Speaker 1: find a half point of value. I mean, Chad, we
11:48
Speaker 1: can't tell me we lost a million dollars this year
11:50
Speaker 1: because three different games were decided by half a point.
11:52
Speaker 1: So it's one of those where you really, you really
11:56
Speaker 1: do you need to really dive into the numbers, because
11:58
Speaker 1: that's if you're gonna make money in this business. That
12:00
Speaker 1: where you make the money looking at the numbers. And
12:02
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel, Simon and chat about this,
12:04
Speaker 1: but the NFL, the money line parlays I think are
12:08
Speaker 1: just out there to be had. I mean, I think,
12:11
Speaker 1: I think anybody can beat anybody really in the NFL.
12:13
Speaker 1: And I know obviously there's some gaps, there's some weeks, no,
12:16
Speaker 1: but you can't be afraid to throw down those money
12:18
Speaker 1: line parlays and taking those odds because underdogar I mean,
12:22
Speaker 1: anybody can beat anybody. Well, look number one, let's be clear,
12:28
Speaker 1: Well Jim beats himself up over Patrick Mahomes. There is
12:32
Speaker 1: there is one GM who did trade up to get
12:37
Speaker 1: a quarterback in that draft. He traded up, trade it
12:42
Speaker 1: up to get Mr Bisky, a friend of mine. I
12:46
Speaker 1: worked with Ryan in New Orleans for years. Um, I
12:50
Speaker 1: I feel for him. I know he probably thinks about
12:53
Speaker 1: it just like I do it. And Simon, that was
12:55
Speaker 1: nice to you to say what you said to because
12:57
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, technically, Miles Garrett was the first
13:00
Speaker 1: pick of that draft and that was a bad pick.
13:02
Speaker 1: I mean, it should have been my Homes number one,
13:04
Speaker 1: and Shaun Watson should have been clear cut number two.
13:07
Speaker 1: So I do agree with you that the whole NFL
13:10
Speaker 1: mis evaluated those quarterbacks. But I can't imagine. I know Ryan,
13:14
Speaker 1: I know they're sweating bullets in Chicago. I don't. If
13:17
Speaker 1: they didn't sneak in this year, I don't think they
13:19
Speaker 1: were going to survive. Um, but somehow they're they're getting
13:22
Speaker 1: another chance, and you know, I'd like another chance to sometime.
13:26
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, let's have some fun. How hard
13:28
Speaker 1: is it to get back in? You know, it's tricky
13:31
Speaker 1: when you put you know, you have seventeen years in,
13:34
Speaker 1: so you know, do you want to be an area
13:36
Speaker 1: scout again? Well, if your teams want to pay you
13:40
Speaker 1: the salary that you you know kind of are at
13:42
Speaker 1: seventeen years in? Or do you want to get a
13:44
Speaker 1: young kid out of college because you know a little
13:47
Speaker 1: cheaper and you know how that goes, and so that
13:49
Speaker 1: is tricky to get back in. And so who you know,
13:51
Speaker 1: business just like anything else. Um, so you evaluate, you
14:00
Speaker 1: can you some of the stuff that you know for betting,
14:04
Speaker 1: but like you said, the numbers sort of changes and
14:08
Speaker 1: it levels the playing field for everybody. So how much
14:13
Speaker 1: can you sort of when you're doing your system, how
14:17
Speaker 1: much do you have to pull back on the bias
14:19
Speaker 1: you may have from what you know about players in
14:21
Speaker 1: the field and what you know about evaluating players. It's
14:24
Speaker 1: so hard, It's so hard to trust the whatever you
14:27
Speaker 1: come up with, whatever your system is when you're gambling,
14:30
Speaker 1: and I think you would agree. It's some days when
14:32
Speaker 1: it cranks out a certain team, it's just like, oh, like,
14:35
Speaker 1: are you sure I really have to take this team?
14:37
Speaker 1: I don't like this guy. But you know, I think
14:40
Speaker 1: that goes back to the plane percentages and if if
14:43
Speaker 1: you just stick with it. It was hard for me
14:46
Speaker 1: to do, especially like college basketball. Sometimes you know, you're
14:49
Speaker 1: just blind. You know, you're just going in blind. It's
14:51
Speaker 1: not like I watch all these teams. But you know,
14:54
Speaker 1: it's been helpful for me, and it's really been good
14:56
Speaker 1: in basketball as well as football. While explaining the basket ball,
15:00
Speaker 1: like what are you doing there? How are you basketball?
15:03
Speaker 1: So what I do is just ranked, you know. I
15:04
Speaker 1: came out and talked to some of my friends who
15:06
Speaker 1: are Division one college coaches and just kind of talk
15:09
Speaker 1: to them about what stats they find important that correlate
15:12
Speaker 1: to the good teams. And and then I looked at
15:14
Speaker 1: it and started paying attention to their rankings. And when
15:18
Speaker 1: I just started messing with it, it was it was
15:20
Speaker 1: a way for me to come up with my own spread.
15:22
Speaker 1: And it's almost you know, it's pretty accurate. Like today,
15:25
Speaker 1: I didn't really have any to jump out. There's really
15:27
Speaker 1: no strong college basketball plays for me today. You know,
15:31
Speaker 1: yesterday was Hampton. Well they laid negg. They're getting you know,
15:34
Speaker 1: start off saying I grabbed it early in the morning
15:36
Speaker 1: at five. It went down the four. So I'm saying, wow,
15:39
Speaker 1: everybody's on Hampton. That always scares me. And sure sure enough,
15:43
Speaker 1: they laid egg in the first half. Lost, lost by
15:45
Speaker 1: eighteen in the first half, one by eight in the
15:47
Speaker 1: second half. But you know, but like I said, those
15:50
Speaker 1: are the you know, those are the days. That's what
15:52
Speaker 1: you have to suck it up with. And I'm taking Hampton,
15:54
Speaker 1: you know, on a Monday evening and I'm just sitting
15:56
Speaker 1: there against Longwood. Couldn't tell you one player on either team,
15:59
Speaker 1: although Hampton and the best player I looked it up,
16:01
Speaker 1: your best players from Buffalo. Yeah, you sound like you're
16:07
Speaker 1: you sound like you're indeed man bad. So when I
16:11
Speaker 1: was in high school, I mean, we used to play
16:12
Speaker 1: blackjack and gamble with baseball cards. Playing blackjack, I mean,
16:15
Speaker 1: this is something we kind of just grew up with
16:18
Speaker 1: in Central Pennsylvania. Is just hardcore sport gamblers and it's
16:21
Speaker 1: just what we love. We still all talk about it.
16:24
Speaker 1: My friend takes BET's back in Central p a still
16:26
Speaker 1: old school bookie. So I'm you know, guy went to
16:29
Speaker 1: high school with so I'm proud of him for sticking
16:31
Speaker 1: with it all these years and just I don't know,
16:33
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things you grew up with.
16:35
Speaker 1: So yeah, I would say if you're if you're trying
16:38
Speaker 1: to get into this life, the gambling is happy, but
16:41
Speaker 1: money management is literally the most important part. So that's
16:45
Speaker 1: that's one of those where if you're just getting back
16:47
Speaker 1: and do it, it'll it'll take a little bit because
16:49
Speaker 1: there's just highs and lows, and that's with any kind
16:51
Speaker 1: of job. But eventually, if you do a long term,
16:55
Speaker 1: you're just numb to him. Man. Like I mean, me
16:57
Speaker 1: and Chad, I couldn't pick a game right in the playoff, man,
17:00
Speaker 1: but like I nailed the Super Bowl dead on. And
17:02
Speaker 1: that's one of those where it's like I had to
17:04
Speaker 1: keep trusting my system, keep trusting myself because if the
17:07
Speaker 1: man you try to switch it up, that's when it
17:08
Speaker 1: catches up. So it's definitely a grind. Well, look that's
17:13
Speaker 1: what happened to us all year, and this this actually
17:15
Speaker 1: could be there might be some parallels to scouting and
17:20
Speaker 1: player personnel in that you have certain beliefs and you've
17:26
Speaker 1: got to abide by those beliefs. And if things don't
17:29
Speaker 1: work out, if you missed the Patrick Mahomes, if you
17:32
Speaker 1: miss somebody else along the way, do you all of
17:35
Speaker 1: a sudden throw the baby out with the bathwater because
17:38
Speaker 1: you made a bad decision. All years Simon and I
17:40
Speaker 1: were making bad decisions because we weren't trusting our eyes
17:44
Speaker 1: and we weren't trusting we weren't we were following our eyes,
17:48
Speaker 1: not trusting our numbers and looking at what was happening
17:51
Speaker 1: on the field, especially earlier in the year, and it
17:54
Speaker 1: was sort of playing playing tricks in our head. When
17:58
Speaker 1: you're a personnel guy, how do you how do you
18:01
Speaker 1: manage that? You want to talk about over evaluated and
18:05
Speaker 1: getting in your own head that the quarter that Deshaun
18:07
Speaker 1: Watson and Homes is a perfect example where we're all
18:10
Speaker 1: sitting there saying, well, how many Clemson quarterbacks in Texas
18:13
Speaker 1: Tech quarterbacks have there been that all fail in the
18:16
Speaker 1: NFL because they're playing in that you know, a good
18:18
Speaker 1: college system and they're putting up numbers but doesn't necessarily
18:21
Speaker 1: translate to the NFL. So that gets in your head
18:24
Speaker 1: and you're sitting there watching those guys and your jaw
18:27
Speaker 1: dropping when you watch some of their plays and how like, wow,
18:29
Speaker 1: that's incredible. But then you're almost not giving them credit
18:32
Speaker 1: for it because you're saying, well, I mean that's college play,
18:36
Speaker 1: that's you know, you can't get it. You can't get
18:37
Speaker 1: away with that in the NFL. So to your point, yes,
18:41
Speaker 1: it gets into your head. And I've had to block
18:42
Speaker 1: out for me, gambling, I've blocked out my instincts as
18:47
Speaker 1: an evaluators. As far as two teams are playing, I've
18:51
Speaker 1: seen both teams I feel good about. But if the
18:53
Speaker 1: numbers say the other way, for me, I have to
18:55
Speaker 1: trust the numbers. And that was hard. That's hard to do,
18:59
Speaker 1: and it was really I'm I tell you when I'm
19:01
Speaker 1: telling you, what I almost lost my mind was the
19:03
Speaker 1: Saints Vikings playoff game when I had the Saints money
19:07
Speaker 1: line and Diggs makes that that I still live this day.
19:12
Speaker 1: I was living down Folly Beach, South Carolina. I was
19:15
Speaker 1: eating piece of pizza, celebrating because I was I couldn't
19:19
Speaker 1: believe I drilled it. I was like I drilled the
19:21
Speaker 1: Saints money line and when that play happened, I'll just
19:24
Speaker 1: never forget it. I was just like, drop everything to
19:38
Speaker 1: your points on and since that, I don't think there's
19:41
Speaker 1: anything nothing phases me anymore. I just laugh and laugh,
19:44
Speaker 1: turn off the TV and go to bed. Hey, do
19:46
Speaker 1: you worry that talking about gambling on a podcast will
19:49
Speaker 1: limit your options to go back into the NFL? And
19:52
Speaker 1: B would you rather be gambling? I would rather be gambling.
19:57
Speaker 1: But I'm not worried about this because if I am
20:00
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to get another opportunity, Hey, I don't you know,
20:03
Speaker 1: obviously I want to collect the paycheck. I have a
20:05
Speaker 1: family to feat. You know, I'll take the I'll give
20:07
Speaker 1: up gambling to keep the you know, to keep the
20:10
Speaker 1: steady paycheck coming for the family. But no, this is
20:12
Speaker 1: where I want to be. I could be on here
20:14
Speaker 1: every day with you guys. I I what you guys do. Really,
20:17
Speaker 1: you guys have changed the game, and it's really helped
20:19
Speaker 1: me when I you know, I subscribe the Action Network
20:22
Speaker 1: two years ago and really was huge for me. It
20:24
Speaker 1: really I could see that you guys were all talking
20:27
Speaker 1: numbers and I love that. I was like Finally, some
20:29
Speaker 1: people are just stat heavy, like no, everybody can give
20:32
Speaker 1: an opinion. No, I like that team, but I like
20:35
Speaker 1: when you back it up with facts. See see that, Simon,
20:38
Speaker 1: we are changing the game. You are. And that's what
20:43
Speaker 1: like people that trying to come at me on Twitter
20:45
Speaker 1: about everything, I'm just like, listen, They're sight is just
20:47
Speaker 1: trying to help you. They're not out here telling you
20:49
Speaker 1: you have to take this side. They're literally giving you
20:51
Speaker 1: the numbers and the data and you have to form
20:53
Speaker 1: your own opinion from that. So that's how I try
20:55
Speaker 1: to harp to people because the more you do it
20:57
Speaker 1: and the more you study lines, you can see patterns.
20:59
Speaker 1: And that's how you get really good at this because
21:01
Speaker 1: you can just no, it's not just trusting your good
21:03
Speaker 1: because you're looking at the numbers, but you just get
21:05
Speaker 1: a feeling where you go, wow, this is this is
21:06
Speaker 1: one of those spots where you should load up on.
21:08
Speaker 1: So that's the key to watching these numbers because you
21:10
Speaker 1: need to know when to take these big hits. You
21:12
Speaker 1: need to know when to load up on good bets. Alright,
21:15
Speaker 1: So Jim, give us an example the opposite of of
21:18
Speaker 1: when it hasn't worked out. The opposite of the Saints
21:21
Speaker 1: money line. When did you load up and how did
21:24
Speaker 1: it work out for you? Weill Chicago at two thousand eighteen,
21:29
Speaker 1: I believe. Uh so, I just couldn't get enough of
21:35
Speaker 1: that team, and they actually they hit my number. They
21:38
Speaker 1: hit the formula for me early in the tournament, so
21:41
Speaker 1: I put bet on them, and then I just started
21:43
Speaker 1: riding them. I said, I don't care, I'm just riding
21:46
Speaker 1: this team. I just fell in love with him. So
21:48
Speaker 1: there's the luck part of it. I mean, they didn't
21:50
Speaker 1: necessarily every they weren't always a formula play for me,
21:53
Speaker 1: but I still just kept saying, I don't care, this
21:55
Speaker 1: team has something gone. I'm just gonna keep riding them.
21:58
Speaker 1: And the good, actually incredible thing is I actually backed
22:01
Speaker 1: off of them once they made it to that last game.
22:04
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what this, I can't do
22:06
Speaker 1: it anymore and didn't go as big. I wanted to
22:08
Speaker 1: make sure and end up paying for my wedding. Ended
22:10
Speaker 1: up I got some cornhole boards Loyal Chicago Basketball custom
22:15
Speaker 1: made cornhole boards for our wedding, and everybody was like,
22:18
Speaker 1: what what's this? Loyal Chicago like they paid for this,
22:21
Speaker 1: So it's funny you mentioned that Loyal Chicago year. I
22:25
Speaker 1: remember that was the first year Action had March Madness.
22:28
Speaker 1: A bunch of us went out to Vegas and we
22:30
Speaker 1: were doing a whole bunch of things from there, and
22:33
Speaker 1: I was at the West Gate. I had registered on
22:35
Speaker 1: my phone to use the app, and I kept putting
22:38
Speaker 1: in a bed of a pretty hefty size for Loyal
22:42
Speaker 1: Chicago because I really liked them like that, like you said,
22:45
Speaker 1: like our numbers, all of our experts were showing low Chicago's,
22:48
Speaker 1: at least in the first game against Miami, a great size.
22:51
Speaker 1: So I'm loading up on Loyola. But the app keeps
22:56
Speaker 1: timing out before it accepts my bet, and so I
23:00
Speaker 1: keep reloading it. At some point there's an announcement over
23:03
Speaker 1: the loudspeaker that says, if you've been making bets and
23:06
Speaker 1: the app is timing out, don't worry. The bets have
23:09
Speaker 1: been made. We're having a technical glitch. So now I'm three.
23:16
Speaker 1: Probably with the size I was betting, I was probably
23:18
Speaker 1: six units in on Loyola, and I could have gone
23:21
Speaker 1: to the window at that point been like, look, you
23:24
Speaker 1: guys had this glitch. I need to get some money out.
23:26
Speaker 1: I only want to bet at once I decided to
23:28
Speaker 1: let it ride. I think they were one point two
23:30
Speaker 1: point dogs in that opening game against Miami and they
23:33
Speaker 1: ended up waring the game in the last second, and so,
23:36
Speaker 1: like I made my whole bank roll for the weekend
23:40
Speaker 1: on that one game. I don't think I went to
23:42
Speaker 1: a cash machine for like six months, because like I
23:46
Speaker 1: cashed down from the app because I wasn't going back
23:48
Speaker 1: to Vegas for a while. So it kind of worked
23:51
Speaker 1: out perfectly. Uh so we can all appreciate, uh, Chicago,
23:57
Speaker 1: that's like playing blackjack when you start getting you know,
24:00
Speaker 1: you get with those hands, or you just keep splitting
24:02
Speaker 1: and splitting and splitting, and all of a sudden you're like, oh,
24:05
Speaker 1: here it goes. We got five hands. Sometimes it just works.
24:09
Speaker 1: Jim Momus, aspiring professional better former personnel man for the
24:16
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills, the New Orleans Saints, Philadelphia Eagles. We're going
24:21
Speaker 1: for you, man. I want you to come back on
24:23
Speaker 1: as as certainly as college basketball goes on, keep us
24:25
Speaker 1: posted on how things are going. I want this to
24:28
Speaker 1: work out for you. Good luck man. Yeah, definitely, it
24:30
Speaker 1: sounds like you're really into it. I really appreciate you
24:32
Speaker 1: guys taking his time and give me this opportunities. Really
24:35
Speaker 1: was fun. Thanks guys, good luck all right. Next up
24:38
Speaker 1: on the podcast, Simon is still with us, Darrin Ravel.
24:42
Speaker 1: Darrel Ravel was coming back because there is something happening.
24:45
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about memorabile youa uh on action
24:48
Speaker 1: network platforms, and Darren does a show called Buyer's Market
24:52
Speaker 1: UM that is brought to you by eBay, and it
24:55
Speaker 1: covers the memorabilia space UH and sort of the rapid
24:58
Speaker 1: rise in what is happening in that market Jerseys, shoes, cards,
25:05
Speaker 1: et cetera. Over the last say ninety days. There is
25:10
Speaker 1: a platform called NBA top Shop and on it, fans
25:15
Speaker 1: are buying, trading, and selling these encrypted digital highlights. Okay,
25:24
Speaker 1: so if you aren't aware they like you don't understand
25:28
Speaker 1: why people are buying highlights they can see for free
25:32
Speaker 1: on YouTube. You're going to explain this, but I'm telling
25:35
Speaker 1: you right now, like this is the conversation in sort
25:40
Speaker 1: of the risk, the speculation, the the betting investing space
25:47
Speaker 1: that we all trade in here. And I use that
25:51
Speaker 1: term very specifically. Dan Revel has been writing about it.
25:55
Speaker 1: He spoke to the CEO last night. That interview is
25:58
Speaker 1: gonna air later in the weekend. Actually work, I'm gonna
26:00
Speaker 1: do a clip of it um today Darren, alright, your brother.
26:05
Speaker 1: This is all part of one thing, which is the
26:09
Speaker 1: crypto conversation. People not wanting to invest in mutual funds
26:14
Speaker 1: like their parents have at five percent a year, wanting
26:18
Speaker 1: to invest passionately about something they care about, plus the
26:23
Speaker 1: gambling element. That was not just my quote. That was
26:26
Speaker 1: quote from Ross Hoffman, who just became president of Golden
26:29
Speaker 1: Auctions with the Churning Group parent company. Are one of
26:33
Speaker 1: the investors of the Action Network investing in Golden Auctions
26:36
Speaker 1: and putting fourty million dollars in. This is the same
26:39
Speaker 1: thing with NBA Top Shot. In my twenty years are reporting,
26:42
Speaker 1: I have never gotten as many questions about one thing
26:47
Speaker 1: in such a short period of time that I have
26:50
Speaker 1: gotten over NBA Top Shot. In fact, I got three
26:53
Speaker 1: calls today. What is this? Explain it to me? Why
26:57
Speaker 1: do I have to get into it? So basically what
27:00
Speaker 1: it is is on the primary market, just like trading cards,
27:03
Speaker 1: you're buying a pack. So yesterday you were trying to
27:07
Speaker 1: get one of fifty thousand packs that had a couple
27:10
Speaker 1: of highlights in it that costs fourteen dollars a piece,
27:14
Speaker 1: so they raised about five grand. And once you get that,
27:18
Speaker 1: you open the pack and it be automatically becomes part
27:21
Speaker 1: of your digital wallet. It's encrypted on the blockchain, so
27:25
Speaker 1: it is then yours. When people say is this crypto, well,
27:29
Speaker 1: it's a non fungible token, and a non fungible token
27:33
Speaker 1: means that it's for the security. That's why the blockchain
27:38
Speaker 1: is working. You don't have to pay in crypto. Someone
27:41
Speaker 1: like chat Millman doesn't ever have to see crypto. All
27:44
Speaker 1: it is is you can pay with credit card, you
27:47
Speaker 1: can get money in cash. But the blockchain is what
27:50
Speaker 1: is the part of it which is the security that
27:54
Speaker 1: once I get this highlight, this is my highlight. It's encrypted.
27:58
Speaker 1: It's one out of forty nine, four out of forty nine,
28:01
Speaker 1: and that's how it works. This is what I don't get.
28:04
Speaker 1: You didn't tell us. Why is it worth anything? Where
28:05
Speaker 1: I can just go to YouTube to see this highlight.
28:08
Speaker 1: You can get any picture on any trading card for
28:10
Speaker 1: free to I can print it out on my printer.
28:13
Speaker 1: I get that argument, But my whole argument is what
28:15
Speaker 1: is what is the next NBA top shop? Are there
28:18
Speaker 1: are their digital videos? Gonna be worth the same or
28:21
Speaker 1: is there going to be a different market, Because right now,
28:23
Speaker 1: I get it, they're the only ones doing this. There's
28:25
Speaker 1: gonna be three more of these things are gonna pop
28:27
Speaker 1: up in the next year or two. So that's what
28:28
Speaker 1: I'm trying understand. These people are paying like fifty thousand
28:30
Speaker 1: for these highlights right now, which is pretty crazy in itself.
28:34
Speaker 1: And the market dictates what something worth. Whatever someone's going
28:36
Speaker 1: to pay for something, that's what it's worth. I get
28:38
Speaker 1: that whole point. I just don't get the longevity of it.
28:40
Speaker 1: I don't get these people are paying fifty k. You're
28:42
Speaker 1: telling me this guy is gonna be able to sell
28:43
Speaker 1: this for a hundred k next year, Like what is
28:45
Speaker 1: the longevity up these sales they're buying. So this has
28:48
Speaker 1: been helped by what has happened in trading cards. People
28:52
Speaker 1: have bought cards right and they have had them stored
28:56
Speaker 1: away somewhere else p WCC this company says, Okay, you
29:00
Speaker 1: have the card, you're gonna store it in our vault.
29:02
Speaker 1: You won't have to pay the taxes because it's in
29:04
Speaker 1: one of the five states that you don't have to
29:06
Speaker 1: pay taxes with, and so you own it digitally even
29:09
Speaker 1: though it's a physical card, so that has kind of
29:11
Speaker 1: helped this along. You do not own any of the
29:15
Speaker 1: rights to the actual highlight. Just to make that very clear.
29:18
Speaker 1: They explain their relationship with that. This is a top shot,
29:21
Speaker 1: which is Dapper Labs as the company. They came up
29:23
Speaker 1: with their own blockchain called Flow. They have an exclusive
29:26
Speaker 1: relationship with the NBA. The NBA can end that relationship
29:30
Speaker 1: at any time, I believe, but whatever has been distributed
29:35
Speaker 1: out is on the blockchain. In other words, no one
29:38
Speaker 1: can take at least what they've explained, No one can
29:41
Speaker 1: take away what you bought, even if they have a
29:44
Speaker 1: relationship with another company that comes up with one of
29:46
Speaker 1: these non fungible tokens and f t s like me
29:49
Speaker 1: and you, Darren, right when we got this phone called
29:51
Speaker 1: let's me and you make a digital market. We take
29:53
Speaker 1: vintage NBA moments from the seventies, the sixties and the
29:56
Speaker 1: eighties and we make our own little company right now
29:59
Speaker 1: starts selling because but we can't because we don't have
30:01
Speaker 1: the rights. And that's what I mean though, was as
30:04
Speaker 1: soon as the NBA says, okay, let's let it be
30:06
Speaker 1: a free market and let everyone do this and we'll
30:08
Speaker 1: let them pay us for these rights to these different things.
30:11
Speaker 1: When is that going to happen? That's just gonna take
30:13
Speaker 1: down this something? Because that's what I'm what is the
30:15
Speaker 1: whole argument, simon with a nascent market, like when something's
30:18
Speaker 1: coming out, how will it develop? Right? We're not really sure.
30:22
Speaker 1: But what I do know right now is just like
30:23
Speaker 1: trading cards to the NBA licenses it, the NBA decides
30:27
Speaker 1: to cut their own highlight and then they gave it
30:30
Speaker 1: to Top Shot. Now, Top Shot has only been able
30:32
Speaker 1: to do season one season, with the exception of one
30:36
Speaker 1: they did a flashbackpack which two thirteen. In fact, I
30:40
Speaker 1: asked Rohan geges Lou, who's the CEO of Dapper Labs,
30:43
Speaker 1: the parent company of NBA Top Shot, about that exact thing.
30:49
Speaker 1: Are you looking for great past highlights? Can that be
30:52
Speaker 1: introduced as part of this deal? It can, absolutely, It's
30:55
Speaker 1: definitely part of the deal. But the idea is it
30:57
Speaker 1: would be super easy for us to take the most
31:00
Speaker 1: conic moments in history and and sort of turn them
31:02
Speaker 1: into collectibles itself. We wanted to first start with what
31:04
Speaker 1: about everyday games? What about what's happening right now? Can
31:07
Speaker 1: can we extract the most iconic moments there, because that's
31:11
Speaker 1: actually a much richer field and it's it sort of
31:13
Speaker 1: happens all the time. But we don't want to do
31:15
Speaker 1: the things we know will appeal to a billion NBA
31:17
Speaker 1: fans until we can handle a billion NBA fans. That
31:20
Speaker 1: that's really the mindset is that we do want to
31:22
Speaker 1: have some awesome content for beata users, but the kinds
31:25
Speaker 1: of things you're you're sort of talking about a minimum
31:28
Speaker 1: six months away, probably longer. Part of me says, some
31:32
Speaker 1: of these highlights aren't that good. Like what are we buying? Right?
31:37
Speaker 1: Like if you were to tell me I got one
31:38
Speaker 1: of forty nine of the Jordan dunk from the All
31:41
Speaker 1: Star Game, don't contest, I'd be like, okay, but you're
31:44
Speaker 1: paying five thousand dollars for a layup by LaMelo Ball
31:48
Speaker 1: in his debut, Like, so that's for me. That's an
31:51
Speaker 1: interesting one. Right. Last night last night I went on
31:54
Speaker 1: I'm looking for stuff to buy. What I'm seeing are
31:57
Speaker 1: here is and Eric Pasco jumper. Here is a Deer
32:03
Speaker 1: and Fox lay up, And I'm like, and then people
32:06
Speaker 1: are trying to sell them for two dollars to nine
32:09
Speaker 1: and seventy dollars. There doesn't seem to be any logic
32:14
Speaker 1: or value in the market. Like we come at a time.
32:17
Speaker 1: We come at a time where people just took a
32:20
Speaker 1: blank vessel of a company like Game Stop. They said,
32:24
Speaker 1: let's take the dingiest company that has popcorn stains on
32:29
Speaker 1: its carpet from and let's let's take all these dingy
32:33
Speaker 1: companies and let's fill up this vessel and pretend like
32:38
Speaker 1: it's a legit company. So when you're telling me it
32:41
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, just realize the stock market for a
32:46
Speaker 1: couple of days was taken over on something that completely
32:50
Speaker 1: made no sense. So it's against the background of all this.
32:54
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I'm a top Shot proponent. I'm
32:57
Speaker 1: just saying people are going along with this. It's happened
33:00
Speaker 1: at a time when the card companies, you know, when
33:03
Speaker 1: all the on eBay last night a garbage pale kid.
33:06
Speaker 1: So for thirty thou dollars, there's a lot of people
33:08
Speaker 1: who think a whole lot of stuff doesn't make sense.
33:11
Speaker 1: Right now, what's amazing is last night, literally, as I'm
33:14
Speaker 1: scrolling through top Shot and slacking with you and slacking
33:19
Speaker 1: with Justin Fan about this, who who know quite a bit.
33:24
Speaker 1: My older son came home. He had gone to the
33:27
Speaker 1: mall because he wanted to get a new controller from
33:29
Speaker 1: one of his video games. The game stop in the
33:31
Speaker 1: mall no longer existed. It was gone, and it's it's like,
33:37
Speaker 1: this is the world we're living in, and that that's
33:39
Speaker 1: what I think is so interesting about the memorabilia and
33:43
Speaker 1: the top shot and what you said in the beginning.
33:45
Speaker 1: I don't think it's about people not wanting to invest
33:48
Speaker 1: in their parents mutual funds. I think it's about a
33:52
Speaker 1: fundamental lack of belief in the value of investing in
33:56
Speaker 1: the stock market by a very specific generation of people
34:01
Speaker 1: who are now, like Simon, getting more and more comfortable
34:04
Speaker 1: with risk and wanting to own that risk and have
34:08
Speaker 1: more control over that risk. I think. I think it's
34:10
Speaker 1: a great point. I think, in a in a lot
34:12
Speaker 1: of sense, we are now. We are now a nation
34:15
Speaker 1: of gamblers. If you think about crypto, crypto is seven
34:22
Speaker 1: we when we gamble, a game ends, there's a win
34:25
Speaker 1: or a loss, and it's finite, and we walk away.
34:30
Speaker 1: People ask me, why don't you invest in crypto, and
34:33
Speaker 1: I say, well, my life is surrounded by gambling anyway,
34:35
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wake up in the morning any day and say, wow,
34:39
Speaker 1: I was closing my eyes. I lost four thousand, ten thousand,
34:42
Speaker 1: ran thousand dollars. Like, but we are between the stock market,
34:47
Speaker 1: between crypto, between real gambling. We are we are heightened
34:53
Speaker 1: every day and part of that is due to COVID.
34:56
Speaker 1: We need our head. It is groundhog Day every day.
35:01
Speaker 1: We need our human psyche to get more excited. And
35:04
Speaker 1: we need to create that excitement because we're not traveling,
35:07
Speaker 1: We're not doing anything that previously got our dopamine going.
35:12
Speaker 1: And that's why we're we We are creating for us
35:15
Speaker 1: to be on edge and it and it's incredible. And
35:18
Speaker 1: and yes, Simon, guess what. I'm trying to figure out
35:21
Speaker 1: what real markets are too. I bought this Dwayne Johnson
35:25
Speaker 1: rock Bumblebee card for seven dollars and I have a
35:29
Speaker 1: chance to sell up for twenty five dollars, and I'm like,
35:33
Speaker 1: should I hold on or should I take It's It's
35:36
Speaker 1: it's like live betting every day in the memorabilia space.
35:40
Speaker 1: And that's what I was gonna say. This is definitely
35:42
Speaker 1: the golden age of this, Like we've never experienced anything
35:45
Speaker 1: like this. Where everyone just has time and the wealthier
35:49
Speaker 1: of just kind of wealthier. So a lot of people
35:52
Speaker 1: do have extra money right now, and they're willing to
35:53
Speaker 1: spend because they're not taking vacations, they're not going out
35:55
Speaker 1: to dinner every night, they're hanging around at home, and
35:58
Speaker 1: they want to experience things like they didn't childhood, which
36:00
Speaker 1: is collecting cards. And that's when I asked you about
36:04
Speaker 1: this whole logo pole thing man, because as some of that,
36:07
Speaker 1: I'm really into Pokemon cards, like when I was a kid,
36:09
Speaker 1: that was our thing and their ninth nineties early two thousand's.
36:13
Speaker 1: And he bought a box and it's a first edition box,
36:17
Speaker 1: which is very rare. So he end up paying three
36:19
Speaker 1: hundred fifty thousand for this box. He's now sold each
36:23
Speaker 1: packet individually to people to be on his YouTube page.
36:26
Speaker 1: He's gonna have a live break on February. These people
36:30
Speaker 1: have paid him one point four million dollars to be
36:32
Speaker 1: a part of the Golden through Golden Auctions. They bought
36:35
Speaker 1: Golden Auctions. So is this one of these things where
36:39
Speaker 1: like I just sold not even a graded hollow Graham
36:43
Speaker 1: blast Joys first edition. I start up for three thousand dollars.
36:46
Speaker 1: It has whitening on the back of it. The guy
36:48
Speaker 1: didn't care. He paid me three thousand on the event
36:50
Speaker 1: just for this card. We're just last year these were
36:52
Speaker 1: going for two on eBay. Is this the same thing
36:55
Speaker 1: in Pokemon where it's a boom right now in this
36:57
Speaker 1: whole industry? Let me let me give you some thing
37:00
Speaker 1: that I did that that was I was thinking about
37:03
Speaker 1: the value of uh, the cards that are beat up, right,
37:07
Speaker 1: because you just told me the guy didn't care, I bought.
37:11
Speaker 1: I bought twenty five of the best cards over the
37:15
Speaker 1: last fifty years. In a p s A one. Okay,
37:18
Speaker 1: the Michael Jordan has a pinhole in it. For God's sakes,
37:22
Speaker 1: it's it's as Chad would say, it's gross, Okay, I
37:26
Speaker 1: paid six I I'm like, I can't believe I'm paying
37:29
Speaker 1: six fifty dollars for a Michael Jordan's with a pinhole
37:33
Speaker 1: and like maybe a water stain on it. I have
37:36
Speaker 1: no idea where this has been. On Thursday, a p
37:40
Speaker 1: S A one record is gonna be set for the Jordan's.
37:43
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be about five thousand, which means
37:46
Speaker 1: the cheapest Jordan you can get eighty six, Jordan Rookie
37:49
Speaker 1: is gonna be five thousand dollars. So it's happening everywhere.
37:54
Speaker 1: Pokemon just hits it in a different place because but Pokemon. Remember,
37:59
Speaker 1: the people excited about Pokemon are twenty five to thirty five.
38:03
Speaker 1: The people who get excited for Jordan's are thirty five
38:06
Speaker 1: to fifty, and those people have more money. So it's
38:10
Speaker 1: kind of happening at a greater scale. But we are,
38:13
Speaker 1: We're just coming into money and this time. I can't
38:17
Speaker 1: even when I first said the chat, I'm going to cover,
38:20
Speaker 1: you know, memorabilia for us because I love it. I
38:22
Speaker 1: have a collection. I had no idea that I'd have
38:26
Speaker 1: to have two hundred hearts on eBay so I could
38:30
Speaker 1: follow all this and that since most of these auctions
38:32
Speaker 1: are ending in eleven fifty nine, I'd be up. I
38:35
Speaker 1: have like a Monday night football game every night just
38:39
Speaker 1: following this on. I can't. I can't go to sleep
38:43
Speaker 1: because I need to report at midnight, which is when
38:45
Speaker 1: a lot of these clothes What the hell is going on?
38:48
Speaker 1: That's where all the energy is. So I couldn't even
38:51
Speaker 1: imagine this market in a million years, but it's so
38:54
Speaker 1: exciting I think it has such a parallel to gambling.
38:57
Speaker 1: It's almost like being alive better. And I do think
39:00
Speaker 1: that you can you said, the richer getting richer, you
39:04
Speaker 1: can make calls, and when you don't have money, like
39:07
Speaker 1: like a better you can make calls. If you bought
39:11
Speaker 1: raw Serena Williams two thousand three net pro cards, you know,
39:15
Speaker 1: once over fourteen thousand, you can get it graded, turn
39:18
Speaker 1: it around and make money. So I think there's opportunity here. Uh.
39:22
Speaker 1: And it's it's definitely an exciting time. Yeah. And that's
39:26
Speaker 1: like what you said with the Pokemon. That's what I'm
39:27
Speaker 1: interested in it because statistically, my generation right now is
39:31
Speaker 1: much wealthier at this age, like the high like the
39:33
Speaker 1: one percent of my generation than the Baby boomers, So
39:36
Speaker 1: there is a lot of money, especially with this whole
39:38
Speaker 1: crypto boom going on. A lot of kids in my age.
39:40
Speaker 1: I bought bitcoin when I was eighteen, nineteen twenty three,
39:44
Speaker 1: like a bunch of different times, I kept buying bitcoin
39:46
Speaker 1: in different cryptocurrencies. So that's what I'm just interested in
39:50
Speaker 1: right now, is that I just think people are selling
39:52
Speaker 1: these cards right now where I think it's just gonna
39:54
Speaker 1: keep booming. It just seems like one of these markets
39:56
Speaker 1: that it kind of seems like it's snowball in here
39:58
Speaker 1: where people keep saying it's gonna all off. You just
40:00
Speaker 1: said that that random car you post the other night
40:03
Speaker 1: of Michael Jordan's just in a photo, I mean just
40:05
Speaker 1: in a card of a guy dunking the ball that
40:07
Speaker 1: sold for like a thousand bucks. You said it was
40:09
Speaker 1: like a hundred bucks just a couple of weeks ago,
40:11
Speaker 1: whatever it was. It's just crazy right now. Not betting
40:14
Speaker 1: was going to be normalized by legalization, Betting is normalized
40:18
Speaker 1: by the world now. Everything is betting. So when I
40:22
Speaker 1: was going through the top shot stuff, because I've been
40:24
Speaker 1: thinking about you know, and Darren, you and I have
40:26
Speaker 1: talked a lot about this memorabilia that interests me, and
40:31
Speaker 1: I would go through golden auctions and like navigate through
40:35
Speaker 1: and see if there's something I like, and it's impossible
40:38
Speaker 1: for you to win by the way a golden auction. Yeah,
40:40
Speaker 1: And also like there was nothing that was speaking to me.
40:44
Speaker 1: And I was talking to this about my wife and
40:45
Speaker 1: she's like, if you're going to invest in something, make
40:48
Speaker 1: it something you like. I don't don't try to win
40:51
Speaker 1: the market on this and she's right. And then so
40:54
Speaker 1: last night I was going through the top shot stuff
40:57
Speaker 1: and I actually found myself liking the experience of the
41:03
Speaker 1: digital highlight more than the experience of the card. I'm
41:07
Speaker 1: shocked that you say that, I know, but you know,
41:10
Speaker 1: I'm a very forward thinking guy. I liked knowing that
41:13
Speaker 1: highlight was mine, and I liked almost being able to
41:16
Speaker 1: watch it on a loop or whither. Packaging it is
41:19
Speaker 1: interesting the way they're grading it, the way it's a
41:21
Speaker 1: limited edition, like that's fascinating to me. Where I kind
41:24
Speaker 1: of lose it is because I just told you about
41:26
Speaker 1: the actual highlight and whether it's good or not. Where
41:29
Speaker 1: I lose it is when someone says to me, well,
41:31
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if the highlight is good. It's just
41:32
Speaker 1: an encrypted number. I'm just playing numbers games. It's like Simon,
41:36
Speaker 1: as someone said to you, like, you don't need to
41:38
Speaker 1: enjoy the sport, Like what you're doing is you're just
41:41
Speaker 1: playing math. That's all you're doing. Like, and this is
41:43
Speaker 1: what they're telling me that it's it's kind of just math.
41:46
Speaker 1: There's only so many lebrons. This is one out of
41:49
Speaker 1: forty nine or one out of two, and it doesn't
41:51
Speaker 1: matter if Lebron's blocking or dunking the ball. It's just
41:55
Speaker 1: this is a cosmic and this is one out of
41:58
Speaker 1: forty nine, and this is one out of two anit
42:00
Speaker 1: and that to me, that that's as a collector, it's
42:03
Speaker 1: a little bit harder not to look at the beauty
42:06
Speaker 1: of something, right. And that's why I like, I might
42:08
Speaker 1: sound old here, but I love having the cards, Like
42:11
Speaker 1: I literally have a lock box where I keep my
42:13
Speaker 1: baseball cards. I have some old NBA cards, and I
42:16
Speaker 1: have my Pokemon cards, like I have a charge or
42:18
Speaker 1: first edition. Some of them were selling right now for
42:19
Speaker 1: a two undred fifty dollars. Now mine's not graded because
42:23
Speaker 1: I'm too scared to send in the mail to P
42:24
Speaker 1: s A. But it's one of those where I don't
42:26
Speaker 1: know what the market is. But I love that I
42:28
Speaker 1: can go there and I open up this lockbox and
42:30
Speaker 1: I take out this card and I look at it.
42:32
Speaker 1: Where I know these people they love to go on
42:33
Speaker 1: their phones and they can just look at their highlights
42:35
Speaker 1: all the time. But it's just different. I don't know.
42:37
Speaker 1: I just think I'm in on it. Like I bought
42:39
Speaker 1: top Shots because I don't want to miss the wave.
42:41
Speaker 1: It's the same with crypto. I didn't understand what the
42:43
Speaker 1: hell I was doing. I bought bitcoin. I was just
42:45
Speaker 1: trying to ride the way because people were just like, hey, man,
42:47
Speaker 1: it's a two d dollar investment right now in a bitcoin,
42:49
Speaker 1: why not just by it? So I said, why the
42:51
Speaker 1: hell not? You're right, And that's one of those things
42:53
Speaker 1: where that's why this top Shot you don't know if
42:56
Speaker 1: it's viable yet. I don't know a lot of people
42:58
Speaker 1: talking about don't know. But it's one of those where
43:00
Speaker 1: if you're getting in on these fourteen dollar packs and
43:02
Speaker 1: you can sell one card for a thousand, six hundred,
43:05
Speaker 1: why not if you've got nothing to do at night,
43:07
Speaker 1: hop on top Shot and buy these cards. That's why,
43:08
Speaker 1: like people are getting upset of these people because they're
43:11
Speaker 1: talking about it so much. I think they're just excited
43:13
Speaker 1: and it's exciting new things. So the coach out about
43:16
Speaker 1: the excitement. Sixty three million dollars has been traded on
43:19
Speaker 1: the marketplace in the last thirty days, which is which
43:23
Speaker 1: is amazing. Now they have a lot of kinks. Our
43:25
Speaker 1: story on the Action Network and our interview will talk
43:27
Speaker 1: about those, including uh, you know that the that the
43:31
Speaker 1: CEO owns five million dollars worth of top shots and
43:34
Speaker 1: whether that's a conflict or not um and how he
43:37
Speaker 1: plans to maybe you know, get out of it, and
43:40
Speaker 1: whether there's pressure there they have problems moving money because
43:43
Speaker 1: the head of product was also the head of fraud.
43:46
Speaker 1: I mean this is a small company. This is a
43:49
Speaker 1: small company. Okay, uh. And then I would just will
43:52
Speaker 1: go back to you saying like, if you think that
43:55
Speaker 1: the reaction people have to decide whether in the digital
43:58
Speaker 1: world there react action to all the digital is to
44:01
Speaker 1: go more digital or to go physical. For me is
44:05
Speaker 1: to go physical. If i have a Martin Luther King
44:07
Speaker 1: autograph and it's Martin Luther King Day and I'm on
44:10
Speaker 1: the zoom with my daughter and I show people the
44:12
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King autograph and the kids are like, oh
44:15
Speaker 1: my god, is that paper from nineteen sixty three? Like
44:19
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have ever said the paper. We say, is
44:21
Speaker 1: that a Martin Luther King autograph? But they were attached
44:24
Speaker 1: to the paper because they wanted They're so their lives
44:28
Speaker 1: are so digital that they're fixated on the paper being
44:31
Speaker 1: met old. And to me that said, I do think
44:35
Speaker 1: that even kids are going to value the physical as
44:39
Speaker 1: their lives become more and more digital. I think that's interesting.
44:43
Speaker 1: I love this top shot conversation. I love this memorabilia conversation.
44:47
Speaker 1: We're obviously going to be doing more of it there,
44:49
Speaker 1: and you've been covering a NonStop we will continue to
44:52
Speaker 1: cover it, Simon. I did not know you could do
44:55
Speaker 1: it a British accent as well as you can do
44:58
Speaker 1: I did not know you collect did Pokemon cards. And
45:02
Speaker 1: these are two things that, in two years of doing
45:04
Speaker 1: this podcast are brand new to me, and for that
45:07
Speaker 1: I am thankful. Like these, Like I'm literally gonna go
45:09
Speaker 1: to my parents house and the saltis, I'm just gonna
45:11
Speaker 1: be going through my like their basement trying to find
45:13
Speaker 1: old Pokemon cards, because that's what's been happening. I've been
45:15
Speaker 1: finding these old cards and some of these things are
45:17
Speaker 1: worth a couple of thousand dollars now, So like that's
45:20
Speaker 1: what I've been trying to tell people. I mean, me
45:22
Speaker 1: and you could talk off air Darren about but like
45:24
Speaker 1: I would love to do like a pack break with
45:27
Speaker 1: you or whatever, because I have like on open packs
45:29
Speaker 1: and different better Pokemon that that people are just really
45:32
Speaker 1: into it right now, Like I just know that you
45:34
Speaker 1: love trade mentorabilia. Yeah, And and I would say for people,
45:38
Speaker 1: don't keep saying it's gonna go up and up and
45:40
Speaker 1: up and up. That's always a dangerous statement. If you
45:43
Speaker 1: can take money off the table, whether you want it
45:46
Speaker 1: to reinvest in something that you think might be safer
45:50
Speaker 1: or a better investment, do it just because the whole
45:54
Speaker 1: up and up and up, and it's an alternative asset
45:56
Speaker 1: class and more people are getting into it. Well, things
45:59
Speaker 1: are gonna if you're around, one day people care about
46:02
Speaker 1: a Dwayne Johnson card and one day they won't, And
46:04
Speaker 1: one day they'll care that there's a population of five
46:08
Speaker 1: of these random Michael Jordan's cards that you've never seen,
46:10
Speaker 1: and one day they'll be like nope. So uh. That's
46:14
Speaker 1: also a very interesting part of cover in this hall. Alright, boys,
46:18
Speaker 1: Simon Hunter, Dann Ravel, that's a great conversation about top
46:21
Speaker 1: shot about memorabilia. Like I said, we'll be doing more
46:23
Speaker 1: and more of it. Fascinating markets, fascinating way to think
46:27
Speaker 1: about gambling and risk and speculation. I'm glad we have it.
46:31
Speaker 1: I'm glad it's opening up a whole new world for
46:33
Speaker 1: for all of us who are interested in the space.
46:35
Speaker 1: This has been the favorites from the Action Network. I
46:39
Speaker 1: am Shad Millman for Simon Hunter for Dann Ravelle. Download
46:43
Speaker 1: the podcast from Apple Podcasts, from Spotify, wherever you get
46:46
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Until next time, I Love you