Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Embracing Adventure, Minimalism & Revolutionizing Travel Photography with Kyle Vollaers, E018

Transcript

Embracing Adventure, Minimalism & Revolutionizing Travel Photography with Kyle Vollaers, E018 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: In this episode I chatted with Carl Vollars, a South African adventure and lifestyle photographer.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I've been following Carl for a while, so it was great to finally meet and sit down with him.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: He's known for his soft, cinematic style of photography and has an absolutely fascinating backstory with how he ended up in the photography and videography space.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: We talked at length about his preferred kit, tips and tricks for newbies, lessons he learned along his eventual rise to his status as a leading travel photographer today.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: If you don't yet follow him, check him out with the links on this podcast description.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: And now I bring you Carl Vollars what's up to my podcast man.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks bro, yeah, stoked to be here, we made it Finally.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been trying to get hold of you.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I mean pretty much with most guests I've had on here.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Usually everyone's traveling, or on jobs, or I'm traveling, so just trying to get people in first of all.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Problem, obviously, but I'm glad you're here because I've been wanting to get on for a while.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Ask travel photographers.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: They're constantly moving around.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's like a ping pong ball around the globe.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: How do you, what is your kind of enjoyment factor with the travel coupled with the photography?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I mean obviously a photographer, videographer, very skilled in that trade.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: But does the travel side of it get a little bit tiresome, or do you enjoy, do you kind of thrive on that part of it?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like, yeah, it's a love hate relationship really, because I love to travel, I love to see new places.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: It's definitely what inspires me as a photographer.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Just experiencing new places, the people, the culture, the food, the smells, the sounds, it's just, yeah, that's really what inspires me.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, like the travel is also taxing on the body and, you know, over the like, early twenties it was a little bit easier 930, it's starting to like it sounds terrible but it's true, you know, like it starts to catch up with you.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, just flying across the globe, 28 hour flights, you know, or in total in travel, you get to the other side and you exhausted for like the first two, three days, you know, and the heavy camera gear, like carrying all the bags around all the time, yeah, it just starts to take its toll.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to like, I'm trying to figure things out now to sort of make my gear as good but as light as possible so that I'm like it's just easier to move around.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: What is in your, what is in your gear bag?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone would love to know.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: So Sony A1, that's my main body video.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I use it for photo and video.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I have an S3 and I sold it because I just really wanted to make my gear lighter and it's not the greatest for commercial shoots because you don't actually have a B cam if my A1 fails.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: But I just wanted to.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to have one body that I could shoot everything on.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, in terms of lenses, 16 to 35, and then I'm using 70 to 200.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I've got an 85.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And what else do I have?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I had a 24 prime that I sold, unfortunately 24.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: G Master it was.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I think it was F 1.4.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that super sharp one.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I regret selling it.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I was, I sold it with my S7S3.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I was just like, no, I'm just going to get lighter, you know, because I had already 24.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: The only lens which is funny enough, the only lens that I'm missing is a 24 to 70.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And for years I haven't actually been shooting that that focal length Interesting.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: But I recently got a 35 to 150 from Tamron F2.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I know people like what it's like.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: That's super versatile.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so 35 to 150, f2 and it goes.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: F2.8 is at 150 and then up to 70,.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: It's F2, I think.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: So you got up to 70 more at F2.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And it's what I mean.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Shooting everything on at the moment, I like don't take it off my camera, basically.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: And cheap as well.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Tamron, a good reputation and good value for money.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's true, I actually got it from.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I actually got it from WthLuke.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah it's such a.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: It's a beast of a beast of a lens.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: But I've noticed that it just isn't as sharp as like the 24 to 70 G Master or like a prime.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Of course it's not as sharp as a prime because there's just so much glass and there's like there's some weird artifacts, like some more, and like chromatic aberration that's like far worse than a lot of other lenses.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It's the trade-off.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I've got versatility, but then the trade-off is like you lose If you're traveling so much.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: You want coupler lenses, right, you don't want to be carrying five or six, exactly, yeah, I can't imagine the 24 was that heavy, was it?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Was it big?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: 24 to 70.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: No, you're 24 prime.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: 24 prime was tiny, yeah yeah, I just was like I don't need it Like.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I've got the 16 to 35, I cover that 24 focal length.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: So I was just like now I'm just going to get lighter, you know.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but I'm looking at getting the 24 to 70 because I just like I've been comparing footage, because from these BD shoots I'm looking at like a bunch of footage from different creators and I'm looking at the 24 to 70 footage versus my 35 to 150 and it's far sharper, like significantly sharper, Really.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: That's good promotion.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Everyone watching get the 24 to 70 G Master, get the 24 to 70.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: People shoot that anyway.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I mean it's the one of the lenses I think, or go to lenses, especially if you're maybe not professional or you're just starting out.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: It's just such a great I mean you can't go wrong with it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is the go to lens.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: It's the lens that most people use.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: The funny thing is is that when I bought my first camera in 2018 in New York, actually I was like I'm going to New York, I'm going to shoot street photography bangers, you know, like I'm just going to get wide angle, I just want to shoot street photography wide angle.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So then I bought the 16 to 35 G Master over the 24, which I almost regret a bit, but like, yeah, I've had a good experience with it and I've used that lens since 2018 and store functioning.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I sent it in twice, though I probably spent about two grand on the lens just keeping it alive and now it's your baby.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, yeah, it's a really sharp lens also.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned 2018, kind of, when you started this rewind, like even before that.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Where did photography, filmmaking, videography, all of that kind of visual art stuff emanate from?
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: What is your?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've been into, like I've always been, a visual person.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Since I was super young.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I was a graffiti artist actually, for from the age of 12 up until now I guess I still like.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I haven't painted in a few years, but I painted like almost every day throughout my teens, or a few times a week.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: This is where K-Town, south Africa.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Was it legal there?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: No, Okay, yeah, they can't do.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: You now Can't find me?
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I painted, you know, from the age of 12, I started painting and was going out, you know, like just during the week I was in school, I'd go to bed, put all my pillows in the bed so I looked like a person.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: You know, there was a person sleeping and then I'd get all my get all my turns ready and I'd sneak out like crawling, like across the garden like a soldier and then I would like walk literally two and a half hours at the age of 12 in the dark until like the train lines and just go paint walls and did that for like quite a few years.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Of course I.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Well, so I I went to this bar.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Well, in Cape Town in South Africa, we'd call it a bri, you know, that's the typical word for barbecue.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I went to this one Bri at one of my mom's friend's houses and her friend's son was a graffiti artist and I walked into his room and I just saw all this graffiti of his room and I was like, wow, this is cool.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: You know what is this?
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And I went and I started chatting to him and he was like, hey, bro, like if you want to, you know, have you ever used a spray can before?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: And I was like, nah, I haven't, so and this like so I was thinking I was 11 years old at this point.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And we went to the back of his house and he's like, yeah, I tested out.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And I was like testing it out and doing a few like squiggles and random tags and stuff, and then that just sparked my interest in it.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: And then I started noticing all the graffiti around Cape Town and during that time, there was a lot of graffiti around Cape Town, like it was, yeah, it was a really, really big thing 2015-ish At five-ish 2005, exactly 2005.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, it was just like I just got into it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: And then you get it's crazy because there's this, there's this entire underworld that people wouldn't even know about.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: You know all this hierarchy and like really, yeah, yeah, and like it's almost like there's definitely some gangsterism to it.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Right, you have to almost get permission to do certain things within like the graph realm within a city.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So, for example, for quite a few years, I had to watch for other graffiti artists.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I had to go into a train yard with like radios and be like it's all clear, you can come in and paint and then watch for guards.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: And I had to do that for like almost a year or something just to be able to paint my first train.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: So you weren't it?
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to earn it.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: And if you, if you just go and paint like if you, it's specifically to do with trains really but if you just go paint a train on your own, man, you can get in like serious trouble and not from the law, from writers, graffiti writers that are like have been painting for many years.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, there's this, it's a it's entire underworld.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Interesting People don't know.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: So then that developed into what?
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: After.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that I mean that I carried on painting until the age of, I think until 2015.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I was 21, still painted a few times after Around the age of 19,.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I joined the super yachts, so I flew, got a one-way ticket from Cape Town to Caribbean backpack skateboard and just went to St Martin, actually.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: And I joined the super yachts then and worked on the super yachts for like five and a half years.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: And yeah, from then, when was it?
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I was working as first officer in Norway on a 40 meter boat, cruising the fjords of Norway and during the season, I decided to buy a drone, and this is where, like, all all started really.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: So I bought a drone and started shooting with this.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I think it was a Mavic, mavic one, mavic one.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there must have been that time, yeah, and I was like, oh, he showed, this is epic, like I can.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: This is when I had the realization that I could create art with one click.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I could just like find something that looked cool and then create an image, and then that was like my art piece, you know.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: So it was like doing graffiti in one click, but except I was, yeah, just creating, you know, photography.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I had that Mavic one for like two months and then I was like I want to buy a camera now, cause, like I started getting into photography and doing more research on it and I remember I bought I was in Bergen, I think I know.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: No, no, I wasn't in Bergen, I was in Gothenburg and I went to the boat, yeah.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we went.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: We went cause the boat was going between Sweden and Norway.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I was in Gothenburg and I went and bought the Canon ATD, I think Okay.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: It was the Canon ATD.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I'm yeah.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not familiar and I bought the 18 to 35 Sigma art.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that was like my first setup and I like, yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And then I just like started shooting every single day you know the typical like street photography, like reflection, puddle bokeh shots, and like, yeah, just shooting as much as I could and I got super, super into it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, the more like around that time I was like, oh, I want to start an Instagram account.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: And I started an Instagram account and I was like seeing all these like street photography names, you know, like depth obsessed and like you know, reflection hunters and like all these names.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: So I was like I can't use my name.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I need to use like some, some cool alias name.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So I came up with a name dual atones.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I know, I just it makes, it makes my toes cold and I was like dual atones.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that's fucking cool.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: That's fucking cool, you know, that's, that's, that's my, that's my name.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So then I was like X graffiti yeah, exactly, you know, underground, yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, can I need to start shooting long exposures?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Now, you know, and I was just doing like a ton of long exposures with like reflections and like carrying water bottles with me, you know like, and yeah, that's like essentially where, where my love for photography started.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I was living in the South of France at the time, and when I got back from Norway, I just got absolutely like, absolutely obsessed with it, right, and I was 20.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: So that was end of 2018, beginning of 2019.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, end of 2018.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: And that's when I went to New York and I bought my the A7R2 end of 2018.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: And that's when I was like, oh, I'm buying a proper set up and like I started getting more into it.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had, around that time, I was sort of I'd yeah, I've been on the boat for five and a half years.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I got my like captain's license.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I was, yeah, at the point where I'd either had to like go all in and get my unlimited and like go all into yachting, and I just knew that that's not what I wanted to do, like I'd been a creator for so many years because of graffiti.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I was also into music production at the time and was just like, okay, I've got a choice to make here.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: You know, like I can either go into the boats I was actually heavily into music production at the time and still doing graffiti.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I had these like a few different avenues that I could go down.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And then there was photography.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: That was also on the table.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: So what sort of made me decide to take the leap into photography is like, what environment do I want to be in, like in my career?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: What environment do I actually want to be in on a physical, daily basis, you know, with shoots and travel and music production?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: At the time I was into techno and drum and bass and I still am, but I was like this environment is going to lead me, like into clubs, to festivals, into cities.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was taking me down so well, basically, photography for me.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: At the time I thought, like I was, I slowly started getting into landscape photography, so I'm shifting away from street photography and I was getting more into landscapes and I was like you know, I have the choice now to either go full and all in on music production, carry on with yachting or do graffiti, which would then also keep me in cities, keep me in galleries and, you know, take me away from nature.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: And then I looked at photography and I was like, okay, well, where's photography going to take me specifically landscape photography and I was like it's going to take me into the mountains.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: You know, it's going to take me into nature, it's going to keep me outside, it's going to keep me active.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: And that was like the deciding factor where I was like I think I want to, you know, go all in on photography.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: And at the time I didn't really know it was going to be like travel photography.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: It was more just like landscapes and like shooting outside.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And then I so I took all the cash that I had saved up in yachting over a five year period and just bought like a ton of camera gear.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: So I got like the Mavic 2, I got 70 to 200, I got like an 85.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: What else did I buy?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I just, yeah, I bought a bunch of gear and my ex-girlfriend and I we basically, at the beginning of 2019 decided we're going to go travel Southeast Asia for four year and, yeah, we flew to Oman.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I did my last job on the boats.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: For three months I was working for like the Royal family in Oman and Muscat and then from there, we got on a flight to Bali and then did Southeast Asia for like six, seven months and that's where it like all started, you know, and I was yeah, I was at the time looking up to all these like landscape photographers like Daniel Corden, george Hammond, and I was like God, these are like what these guys do.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: What these guys are doing is incredible, you know.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And then I just started shooting like every single day and started like building my Instagram and started just like really honing in and looking at like what these guys who are at the top were doing and then just trying to like replicate their footprints, you know, to try get to, I guess, where I am now.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I shot the whole, the whole of 2019 around Southeast Asia, ended up moving to Melbourne at the end of the year and I'd never done any commercial work by that time.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Like quicker, you know, gotta keep hydrated.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, any end of 2019, through to Melbourne, and at that time I'd like pretty much burned through all my savings from traveling the whole year spending a ton of photography gear.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, well, I need to, I need to try bringing some money.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: If I'm going to do this photography thing, I need to try, you know, figure out a way to monetize it.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And I remember signing up to like a Facebook group and just looking for work around Melbourne and I actually linked up with this one Spanish guy who was like running a real estate photography firm that he had started and he saw my work and he was like I'd love, you know, I'd love to get you to come shoot with me.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah, after that, at that time, I was like I can earn a bit of money.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And I started shooting real estate photography for like six months maybe, maybe five, five, five, six months just around Melbourne, just like going with my camera bag every day with tripods and like shooting offices and just all these random things, and was earning like not a lot of cash, but enough to sort of survive in Melbourne and Melbourne's quite expensive, you know.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And then, and then, yeah, so what happened after that?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're going back and a lot that happened.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: This was COVID, almost COVID now, so this was leading in, okay, so it must have been less than five months, must have been about four months, so that at that time I was pretty good friends.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: This I became good friends with Luke and we met with Luke with Luke.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Stackpool, luke Stackpool and we met in Java.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: We went and did a trip in each Java in 2019.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: That's where we sort of became good friends.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Bromo and stuff Bromo yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: So we met in Java, connected then, and then we're in contact throughout that whole period into 2020.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And then we landed two tourism board jobs.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Actually it was a visit Greenland and inspired by Iceland, and I flew out, did these two jobs incredible.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: That's where I took one of my favorite photos actually ever in Greenland, in a Lulisat, but we'll get to that later.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And I did these two tourism board jobs.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And then we finished, inspired by Iceland, and I remember we finished the job and we're at the airport and this was in March and everything was just.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Flights were canceled left, right and center.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I was supposed to fly back to Melbourne because my ex was still there.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: We had an apartment there and everything.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: And it was one of those days where you just didn't know what was going on.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: It was just like, oh, I'm going to get it.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Airports are shutting down left, right and center.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: People were running around crying and panicking and no one knew how strong this virus was or what it was.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So it was just like absolute pandemonium, just crazy and that day so I left Iceland and Australia were closing their borders at 12 o'clock that night.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I basically had to get into Australia because they were closing the borders to non-nationals, so I had to get in before it closed.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And I arrived and it was like it closed 10 minutes before I landed.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: So there I am not knowing if I could even get back into Australia.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Luckily they let me in.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I got back, packed my apartment up in like four days, I think it was, and then flew back to France and was based in France like up until last year September.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Why France?
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Did you already from when you lived there?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Did you have property there or something?
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So my ex was French.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Ah, okay, yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And during my Yard and Korea I was sort of based in the south of France, so I was like in and out of south of France and in the Mediterranean most of the time, yeah.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: And then that sort of led me up until last year where I left France and, yeah, we basically.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So I ended up splitting up with my ex.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: We were together for about eight years and I won't delve deep into that, but people change, people grow, and it was just the right choice to sort of move on.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And then I moved out to Bali and just started traveling again and I've been traveling in and out of Bali and traveling internationally since.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: And yeah, since September I've just been traveling nonstop actually, which has been pretty awesome.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So that brings us up to kind of present day.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Present day, yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: How would you then?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: So who is Kyle now Like as an artist?
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: How would you describe what?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You are and what you do.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So I would say like I'm a multifaceted creative, focusing on photography and video and, yeah, hybrid shooter.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, mostly you know I'm obviously shooting a ton of photography but most of my work right now is related to videography.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm working with a lot of commercial clients like BD.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Bd is just for viewers, bd beautiful destination it's for destinations.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's my main client right now and they've been great and yeah, just sort of taking things.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, seeing how things sort of unravel, working on a few few of my own passion projects Won't get, won't get into that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Now that will sort of unravel.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: You know people, if people follow me, they'll see those projects sort of come to come to fruition.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Nice, follow him.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, follow me, I can't follow us.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, for now, just like In a really good place actually, you know, just got some good client work Since I left France last year.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: It was like quite turbulent because the transition of like leaving that entire life To the life I'm living now, it was just like the transition felt quite turbulent and I sort of I Lost a lot of my passion for creating and photography through that time and I think it was just the fact that the instability during that time didn't yield to me having the peace of mind to be in the right space to create.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: And Now I'm at this point, right now, where I feel like I've started finding that peace of mind and I'm starting to shoot again.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to create for more, more for more, so for myself.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I've still been doing client work throughout that entire period but, yeah, I'm at a point where I'm just like starting to feel, you know, I started to feel really motivated and inspired to shoot photo and video and, yeah, one of the big sort of sparks of that inspiration has been shooting film and I I Think I bought a point and shoot a few months ago, just before I left India Yeshika T4 for anyone who wants to know what I'm shooting on and, yeah, I just started shooting a ton of film and that has just like a five mil, 35 mil.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just really, really inspired, inspired me and has just inspired me to just carry a camera with me like on a daily basis and just shoot like day to day stuff, you know, not even necessarily like chasing big bangers, just like capturing little moments.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, it's a definitely a different approach to photography and it just feels.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Just feel feels a lot more hands-on and more tangible.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: And Also, having the limited amount of shots that you have per roll is also like such, a such a factor that I love, because, like coming from the a1, where you're shooting like 20 frames a second or something, you just end up like Going to say you know, and you would just leave a shoot and, pardon me this, I'll just go back and, yeah, and you would just leave a shoot and you had a shot like 1500 or 2000 shots, you know, and I mean that that has its time in place for you know specific shoots, but it just was, it just felt like it just didn't feel that intimate anymore and stepping into film and shooting the 30, shooting, like 36 shots per roll, just felt like a lot more, a lot more intimate and controlled and Like it.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Just it just made me more, made me more dialed in terms of what I was shooting and how I was thinking about shooting.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that's sort of where I'm at now, you know, and I feel like I'm sort of I'm always gonna shoot digital, but I very much feel like I'm going in the direction of film and just loving the way it looks.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Like I can't like I shoot film, I can shoot Kodak 200 gold On a pointed shoot and get colors out of that role and that camera that I can't even emulate on my trim, like with a1, like I just can't.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I just don't know how to shoot.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's just, there's just something that, something about the film that just looks super beautiful and I've just become, yeah, obsessed with it and, yeah, it's exciting.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: It feels like the early days where I just bought my a7r2 and was figuring out you know how to use this digital camera.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And it just feels, yeah, it feels like that again, you know, and it feels like I'm at the beginning of something new and exciting and it's just, yeah, it's inspiring.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Um, tell us why.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I mean we.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I asked why graffiti in the first place?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: But what is it about photography and videography?
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: and that kind of creative side of visual arts that gets you For one of a better word frothing.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Frothing.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I love that word, I fucking use that word, or I'm not sure what it is.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: So we'll get to.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Well, because I want to ask you a few things about film photography later, because I love it as well.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: But what is it about?
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Just photography generally?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: What, what, why?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: What is it about that discipline and that craft that gets you?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's such a.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: It's a great question and I think it's quite a broad answer, so I'll try to tackle it as best as possible, but For me, initially, it's funny because it's sort of being like this evolution in terms of my relationship with photography and what I love about it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: But when in the early days, I was like I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: It's funny because it's sort of being like this evolution in terms of my relationship with photography and what I love about it.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: But when in the early days, when I first started, it was just being able to like capture that, that thing that looked super cool with, you know, with this piece of kit.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So it was, yeah, it was just freezing that.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: For me it was like freezing that moment and that frame and then being able to manipulate it in the way that I really wanted to see it or how I first saw it at the time.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: You know, because everyone sees things differently, right?
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And yeah, in the early days it was that's sort of what drove me.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And these days, I guess it's very similar, but it's more.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: It's more become like storytelling and like being able to share these moments and and share these things that I see, and not so much like for me just capturing that frame, but like capturing that frame to be able to be like guys, look at this, you know, this, this is.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I think this is cool, you know, and I'd love you to see it and yeah, so, yeah, it's a.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: It's a sort of a difficult answer because I there's so many things that I love about it, you know, but one of the biggest things is also yeah, one of the biggest things for me is the like, the connection that you can make with people that you shoot and that and and sort of the photographers that you meet and the whole sort of the lifestyle that is surrounded with photography.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: You know, like, all the people that I currently know in Bali right now is because of photography and videography.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Like all my best friends Fern, chris, like that whole crew I met because we followed each other on Instagram, and that's probably one of the things that I love the most now is, like, the connections that I made, the people.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't be on this podcast podcast right now if it wasn't for photography.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it sort of started with me just wanting to create cool art and take cool pictures, but now it's become like so much more than that and just become this, yeah, lifestyle that I love.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love to travel, I love to create, I love to capture my life along the way and sort of be able to look back and be like, oh wow, that I remember that time in each Java when I was like watching promo, just like a wrapped in front of us, or you know.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I don't know, it's such it's sort of difficult to answer because there's so many different things that I love about it now because it's become my life, you know so.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: There's no easy answer.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone answered it.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Everyone answers that question in their own way, me included, but no one really is 100% sure about a very specific answer it's just in a kind of it's an indescribable feeling and I think it all starts for everyone.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: It all starts with looking at an image that you've taken, not just.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I mean you can.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: You can still get the same spark, but when you've taken something and you've got something you're proud of, like that feeling is doesn't matter what it means, there's a story behind it or whatever.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: The experience great.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: All of those are kind of peripherals.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you, when you start doing it exactly and it sounds like the same view, but probably you know the the, the genesis of that was your graffiti going into.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, now I can create something different and still get the same buzz from, like you said, just a click or a bit of technology.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: For me it was that, that technology as well, because I love gadgets and equipment and yeah, so I was like just combining that with with that just aesthetic pleasure, and then the rest comes with.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, definitely, I think everyone actually says Experiences and the people that you meet along the way, whether that's you know, if you're portrayed photography, the people you're shooting, or if if you're traveling to talk to me in a team or whatever, if you're on a client job, whatever, it is like the people in the community, even here in Bali.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Right, the community is just incredible and that makes it so much more powerful.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Exactly yeah, yeah but, yeah, interesting to hear how you got into it, basically fitting it around the lifestyle you wanted, which was, which is really interesting yeah, like you know, I feel like you can design your own environment right and that sort of that decision that I made in 2018-2019 was that I wanted to, you know, design my own environment to be conducive to a more healthy lifestyle.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Because I knew, like you know, because I'm a little bit of a sender, I knew, I knew that if I went like the music production route, I would be partying all the time and like, even with graffiti and like being a mural artist, I would be in the cities all the time and like for me, photography and videography.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: You know, videography sort of came later.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't really know that that was going to be part of my whole career now and what I do, but definitely with photography, I knew that it would lead to a far healthier lifestyle.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Even yachting, I think, is working hard, playing hard right.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yachting is like savage, yeah.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Yachting is like four months of work and then, as soon as you hit land, everyone's on the purse.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we were watching, was it called Below Deck?
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Have you seen that on Netflix there's one sailboat and one super yacht.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just fun.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just an interesting lifestyle, because I can kind of relate to it a little bit with doing the same thing, with flying basically.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: But you know, we live in hotels, we don't live on the boat, but it's yeah, it's interesting.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I can imagine, especially at that age, when you're kind of early mid 20s, it can just be amazing.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: You know it's gonna be fun, but maybe not something you'd.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there comes a point where you're going am I gonna do this for the rest of my life, right?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Especially if you upgrade to captain.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: You're like, am I gonna do this for the rest of my life or am I gonna pivot?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like it was an easy decision for you.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was an easy decision and honestly, I haven't looked back like, yeah, it's funny now because, like years later, I'm still working on the boats, but now I'm shooting films you know, so yeah, in the beginning of the year I flew to Mexico and I shot for 12 days on a 70 meter boat called Rossiante and yeah, it was basically shooting in Baja Mexico for 10 days, 10 or 12 days.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And yeah, no, that was great, fun, great diving every day, just like shooting, yeah, shooting a bunch of stuff, just shooting.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Guests can't actually say who I was shooting, but yeah.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Photographing guests, not shooting.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Photographing guests, yeah.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: So basically, I mean, the job was, it was pretty savage because you arrive and then you shoot every single day and then by the end of the trip you have to deliver a 10 minute edit that shows the entire trip.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, so this was a video.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Video, okay, and photos, okay, yeah.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: So then we had to shoot.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I had to shoot daily photos editing every night every night and 10 minutes is like it's a long time.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they wanted a 15 minute film, so I pushed it to like 12 minutes or something and yeah, it was like.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: It was like a decent edit.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I can't, it wasn't anything like Roger or you know some of these other edits I've done, but that was a pretty decent, pretty decent edit and then I had to present it to the entire crew and all the guests at the end of the trip, which is like 20, like 30 people on a massive flat screen and falls.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Like I'm a private, like cinema viewing.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it went down pretty well.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I went well.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I went on super well.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people are crying and stuff.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So really, yeah, if you make people cry, it was that bad it was that bad.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: they were like why, barley, what I know?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: You came here initially in your southeast Asia kind of travels, but did you fall in love with it then and want to come back, or yeah, I definitely fall in love with it.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because there's something about, there's just something about the energy on this island that draws me back.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: It's like as soon as I land and I'm walking out of that airport, I can just like feel the energy of the island.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: You know, put my little tin foil hat on quickly, but like, yeah, there's something gravitational about this island that just feels and if you speak to the local, if you speak to the Balinese, I'll tell you about it.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: You know, like, and I could just like feel this energy and I was just drawn to the island and also the lifestyle.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Of course it's super beautiful.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I surf this incredible waves all over Indonesia, although I've been far too busy with work to even get out and and travel much to to for myself.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I'll come eventually.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's nearing, but, yeah, initially like so, the island, the beauty of the island and being able to just garden shoot whenever I wanted, yeah, the surf, and then also, just, I had a lot of Pete friends that were based here already.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So for me it was just an obvious choice.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: It was either like Bali or going back to Cape Town.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: And you still live in Cape Town technically.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Technically, I live in Cape Town, yeah, but I've been like traveling in and out of Bali for a while yeah, second home yeah and Southeast Asia and I've been, yeah, just moving, moving around a lot, but Bali is a place that I'll always come back to, for sure I'll be going back to Cape Town, though, pretty soon, and spending summer summer back there, just because, yeah, bali rainy season now we all know how that goes.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking about it the other day it's.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: it could get pretty pretty wet here, yeah, but it's still warm at least, which which is nice yeah, but yeah, yeah, getting back, getting back to why I was sort of drawn to the island, I think those are the main reasons.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: You know just how this island feels.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: It just feels so good to be here.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Of course, incredible weather, the Balinese people I'm just obsessed with just some of the some of the most beautiful and warm hearted and genuine people I've like ever met.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: And I've I've traveled a lot of Southeast Asia, you know Philippines, thailand, sri Lanka Well, those are the main, main cases.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I've been in Southeast Asia, but Bali still, the Balinese people, for me, are just like just it's just hard to compare, compare.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: They just so humble, so genuine, so kind and so warm hearted.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I'm like why wouldn't I want to be around these people, you know?
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I think that's one of the biggest reasons what is it that brings you joy in life other than photography, videography?
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Is it people, places, experiences, hobbies?
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a mixture of everything, but I think people is a big one like I.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Really I love spending time with good people and and have a lot of good friends that I like to spend time with.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: For Matt's and Chris Glaze, a lot of these people are just like incredible artists, photographers and just genuine, like genuinely really, really beautiful people and I just like to be around good people and have good conversations and exchange ideas and, yeah, just create together and, yeah, I think that's probably one of my favorite things to do it's just spending time with like good friends yeah and going on missions and creating and.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I love about those guys is we've had them on.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: We'll have them on again, for sure.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: But we should get.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: We should all got to get on together one time.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: That would be fun.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Just have to stock up loads of negronies, because Finn will go crazy yeah, no, we're going to need some serious get the bin tongues, get the negronies yeah, I know what those guys are like.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: One key thing for me I think you probably resonate with this word not not to take things too seriously, like so, when you sit down with people, and that's what what the local people here in Bali is so Just genuine and naturally good at is just taking, taking each day as it comes and not not taking themselves too seriously.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they take a few things, you see, namely the religion and the spirituality, but Even then they they kind of they do it with a smile on their face and they do it in a very kind of peaceful manner.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Right when you're, when you're in an atmosphere like that, especially with photographers who are a lot of people, a lot of photographers in my experience Just can just take themselves very, very seriously and is and it's a grind and it's and it's kind of becomes competitive and it's it's always all about photography, which is you know, I talk about photography all day, but it's more to life surrounding the art and the techniques of that.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: But we can sit and have a beer and just shoot the shit and not take each other or yourself too seriously.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I think that's big, big difference with, certainly with the guys you're talking exactly, yeah, exactly, I think.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when I arrived in Bali first, the first time I visited in 2019, like that whole sort of like Instagram influencer thing on Instagram was becoming like it.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: That's when it was like really happening and everyone was like so into it and taking themselves so seriously and all trying to grow, you know, and like that's when I first sort of saw that side of things and you would just sit down at a table and like people just talk about Instagram non-stop, you know, be on their phones Instagram, instagram, instagram, like blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that was like a big eye-opener in terms of like, oh, do I, do?
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: I want to get into this world, you know, and, yeah, I think with that, it's like just sort of paving your own way and finding your own groove and finding balance with it, because, you know, back to taking, it's taking, you know, people taking themselves too seriously.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's when they go a little bit off-kilter, off kilter I don't know if that's the right word.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, off kilter, off kilter, that's the right word, yeah, and they just sort of go a little bit too intense and take it far too seriously and get too involved.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: And then, by getting too involved with that whole world, they become too self-involved at the same time and that can just sort of create this environment that like, yeah, I just becomes unhealthy.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I feel extremely unhealthy, extremely unhealthy, if you don't know how to handle social media and we've all been there where we've been sucked into whatever Area of social media is applicable to you at that time, but it's extremely and if you don't, if you're not aware of how it can influence influence is probably the wrong word to use, but how it can affect you both mentally, physically, socially.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I mean the amount of people when we first came by Lee, the amount of people you couldn't have more than a one minute conversation with because I had to pick up the phone.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I just I don't need that.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: This is not the type of people I need to be around, right?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you, if you as an individual not aware of of how to use it most, um, most effectively for whatever, for whatever use you need it for, you can get sucked in.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: It becomes your life.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: You know the people spend 10 hours a day on fucking, absolutely.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people get absolutely consumed.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: It's not reality.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just and it's so, it's just so degrading to mental health.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Totally not even if you're watching educational videos all day.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: It's so geared towards.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Dopamine hits all the time and it's an addiction.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: It is an actual addiction.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: This is how people, people get seriously ill.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, I mean, you know, people are just like they're getting their dopamine system apps at these apps on a daily basis and um, I don't want to mention any names, but I I've seen a few people in the sort of industry and in I'll I'll travel niche just get far too consumed by it and you know to the point that like They'll come back, they'll like miss a few days of stories and come back and be like I'm sorry for not posting stories, and then you sort of look at, I look at that, I'm like, well, what they tell their audience I'm sorry for not putting yeah, you're like.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry for not showing up.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: It's not a statistic.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like I've even I've even almost caught myself coming back after not posting for a while and just being like I've been away.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry for like not posting and stuff, but it doesn't actually, it doesn't matter, like, and I've sort of come to that realization now, um, over the past few years that, like, most of the time, people are thinking about themselves and they're not actually noticing what you're doing Absolutely and, um, I give a shit, but so many people, you know, lose so much energy by feeling like everyone's thinking about them.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: That's actually not the case, and it becomes this very like sort of self-tab, us self sabotaging cycle when people will constantly feel like they need to be like, posting on daily basis and doing all of this because, like, like, otherwise they're going to get left behind.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: And for me, that's not really the case.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Um, of course, if you've got like monetary incentives behind it and you're trying to grow a business and you're trying to drive revenue, um, for your business by posting on social media like, go for it, but then know that that's what you want to do, because a lot of people get caught in like, caught in this trap of like I just need to grow this following and then, like, it sort of begs the you know, begs the question of like, why?
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: For, yeah, you know, why are you growing this following?
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Because because you, you lose so much time, you know.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: And I sort of got to the point.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: This is why, like now, I will like get into a sort of phase while I post for a bit and then I just step away.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: And I step away not in like the fact is, not in the fact of like, I'm not motivated to post, it's just more the fact like I just want to have time for myself and I just want to be present on a day-to-day basis and not be consumed by this sort of machine.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: And it's, it's funny because I'll notice if I post like five day, if I post five days in a row, even after the first day, I'm like, okay, I need a step away, this is too much.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: It becomes this like Super monotonous day-to-day thing where I'm like replying to the same people, giving the same comments, and I obviously I appreciate all the comments I get on my work when I do post, um, and I appreciate all those people, and it's not really to do with them, it's more just to do with the fact that I, I don't want to have this repetitive cycle on a day-to-day basis.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I like to have my day sort of a little bit more Um, open and like full of surprises.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to be like at four I'm gonna post and then I'm going to be going through this exact same cycle and eventually, like After even five days, it just becomes too monotonous for me.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and that's one of the big reasons that I'll sort of step away from time to time.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I just got to the point where I valued my time far more than any amount of followers I could ever have.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Um, because, even if I had that major following, um, you know, 500k and 600k, a million or whatever Like, yes, you're gonna earn more money, but then at the end of the day, like, you're still just trying to get more time right, like, so you're gonna what?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: You're gonna gain more followers, that's gonna give you more money.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: But then, like, is the trade-off on the amount of time that you put into gaining more, those more of those followers, worth the time?
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Trade-off when you could actually just have the time instead of having the following?
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Because at the end of the day, like for me, you still Like us trying to earn money.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: We trying to like earn money to then create more time to enjoy ourselves, right, but then why not like not put all that time into growing that following and actually just have the time already?
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: So that's sort of like.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: That's sort of the way I started looking at it, like, yes, I could spend three hours editing this photo and then like two hours posting, like you know, replying to comments, and then like posting and then replying to comments after I post.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Or I could just spend the three hours and go for surf and I go see my friends.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'll do the latter, you know like I think I would rather just spend that time seeing my friends and Um, would you have the same philosophy if you had 5 000 followers and Working to get jobs?
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: It's a good point because maybe it would be a bit different.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Like I think I may be fortunate enough to have like put the time in to get to where I am now, but the funny thing is is that most of the work I'm getting right now is not through Instagram.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: It's because of the video work that I've put out and People noticing the video work that I've put out over the past few years.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: That's sort of where my most of my clients have come from, actually.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Um, so like I'm not doing I'm basically doing no paid promotions on Instagram at the moment.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I get a few offers now and then, but like none of them are Good enough for me to like want to just promote some company that I don't really like Fully believe in or you know, and a lot of the time that is the case unless it's something that I'm like using on a daily basis, like polar pro, for instance.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Like I have no problem promoting that company because they produce incredible gear that I use on a daily basis part right monitors polar pro.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: What might they go?
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Polar Polar pro, what tell us about polo?
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean polo pro, polo pro filters.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, the filters.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Um, so that's like that's why you'll see me now and then post for them, like I'm an ambassador for them, but at the same time, like they're not asking me to post, I'll just promote their the products from time to time, because they support me and I really believe in their products and I use it on a daily basis, right?
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: So, um, that's when I'm like, that's when I have no problem sort of promoting companies, but in general, like, yeah, I just don't, I just don't want to promote random companies that I don't fully believe in and and also, yeah, I mean that's sort of my, my stance on that.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's such a difficult I mean, there's no right or wrong answer and it's very, very individual and subjective to what you want to use.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're just pinpointing instagram because there's many platforms you can still use as photographer, but, you know, depends what you're doing, for I mean, I I try and post five, five times a week because I want to.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: I want to grow my account and the reason I want to grow my account is to to attract, um, to attract, hopefully, collaborators, or to have a and a big enough audience where I can sell stuff to courses, digital assets like that.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: So but, that being said, I hate posting.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I don't ever um Create for the algorithm.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I don't ever create for I just create what I want to create and hope, hope that some of it sticks right.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Some of it sticks yeah, a lot of it doesn't, um, but Even furthermore, I I hate and that's what you're saying, I hate spending time doing all that stuff.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: So I pay someone To edit my, edit my reels and post stuff.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I have oversight over that.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the photos I post, I never edit.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I never Take them and edit them for Instagram.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: I take them on project based into use elsewhere, just for me.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: And then you have a bank and then I post according to what I feel like that day.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no, so I think it and that's just me.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: So there's kind of a hybrid approach.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: But I, I Definitely agree with you about the time there there's.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: If you can, if you, if you're able like I'm very privileged, in fact I can afford to to pay someone to do that, or I choose to afford to pay someone to do that because my time is not worth Fucking doing that.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I just would never do it.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I would do it badly, um, I would just be dreading it every day.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: You know spending, if you're doing reels as well, like it's this time, consuming it's super time consuming yeah.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: You've got to keep up to date with you know, if you really want to.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: To get as much bang for buck out of one reel, let's say you better make sure you research when to do it, how to do it, captions, what type of formatting, music or this kind of stuff like, yeah, you either do it Properly or you you don't do it yeah, I think kind of, that's what you're saying as well.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you got to have your finger on the pulse, really, like, um, and yeah, like, of course, there's a side of me that still wants to have my instagram grow, but like, yeah, I just came to a point where I just felt like, like you know, as you said, you brought up a great point.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Like, would you still do it if you had only 5k?
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and I would probably be hustling a lot more if I did, you know.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: But this, like where I'm at right now has just led me to having this opinion on on sort of wanting to like, valuing my time over, over the following and I have nothing against people wanting to grow their following.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I did, I hustled, I was posting every day, like I, even before reels, like I grew my following before reels, you know, I grew my following off photos.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, um, and yeah it was, it was a hustle, you know, um, and I definitely take my hats off to anyone who is hustling on a daily grind and who is able to Sort of block out all the noise and just post every single day and be super, you know, diligent with that, because it's it's tough, um, but for me, I think one of the biggest things that, like I can't handle is just the monotony, um, and then that mixed, mixed in with the amount of time that I would have to trade on a daily basis, is, yeah, just not worth it for me.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: And what's it for, like?
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, what is this all for?
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Are you going to sit in your death bed and go?
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: I'm glad, I glad I got 350 000 followers, you know, are you or are you going to look back on your experiences, your stories, your body of work and go?
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm glad I.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I chose three hours of surfing rather than three hours of creating.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and um, um, yeah, and also just working, yeah.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: And then it also comes down to, like, how you view yourself as an artist, right, like, so my Instagram is my gallery, that I put my work up, okay, right, and if I was to just start posting the same photo every three days or like just posting a bunch of stuff just to grow, that would like that would degrade my gallery, right, because that's the way I just see it.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I like you know, it really comes down to, like, what people want to do, and if people are just solely just wanting to grow the Instagram and get it to a good point, then go for it, you know.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: And if they want to just be posting reels all the time and like just trying to grow, then, like you know, I have no problem with that.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: I like respect that, you know, because that's their decision.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: But the reason I don't do that is because I like, I value my Instagram as a gallery and I just wouldn't want to degrade it.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: I feel like I would degrade it and that's just like my personal yeah, personal opinion on it.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I think we as artists are very like, clear on, first of all, the visual aesthetic of any output right, Exactly Whether it's your name on an Instagram account, or if it's what you say on your Twitter account, or if it's your NFT platform is a bit different, because you're only direct money from it.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Or if it's a pitch deck, or if it's a media kit or your website, whatever it is like, we curate that differently to.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: We curate our IG profile and our IG grid differently to a normal, a normal, a non kind of artist.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: We should you say so.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: That is definitely something I think people have to, because I'm really strict on it.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I'm really strict on it as well.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: I don't love I wish mine was all photos.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I just found it very difficult to grow like that and I have different objectives with the reels that I do, so kind of mixing and matching and it's I don't mind it, but I made that decision very early on.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: It's like I don't want I don't have to have my IG grid as my gallery.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, it is great and maybe I can have 50% of it as my gallery and people can still see my photos, always want my photos on there.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: So I totally agree with you.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: It depends on the individual and how, how they want to put themselves out there.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: What's the first impression is?
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: First impressions are huge, whether that's first impression from someone you want to work with, or an admirer, or a potential collaborator, or just a follower.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why do?
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Why do your followers follow you?
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Do you think?
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: that's a.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: It's a difficult question.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, that is.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: That is pretty difficult, I think, for, like the aesthetic in my photos, my colors, how I compose images.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: I guess that's that's why people would follow me or have followed me.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I guess it's difficult cause you can you can have like one real go viral and, you know, get a couple of thousand followers out of that.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So it, it sort of depends, right?
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, I had Instagram posts on my photos once and crew, like you know, 20k within a day or something.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: You did, yeah, wow.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, it depends.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: But I think, in general, like, people just follow, follow me, for, for my style of photography and and for my colors, my colors are sort of changing.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Um, I used to have like such a.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: I used to go like muted greens, like super faded.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's funny, cause if you type in like how to, how to edit, like Kyle Volos on YouTube, there's all these like ton of videos how to get muted, how to get muted green tones, or how to get cinematic greens, moody greens, yeah, exactly.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Um, so, yeah, I think initially that's why a lot of people, people followed me.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your style is incredible.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: That's definitely why I started following you.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think I even knew you or knew any of these guys when I started following, so, um, definitely agree with that.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: It's where did that style come from?
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: And I keep asking you where, where you kind of came from in terms of photography, but style must have evolved around something.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I know you're interested in landscapes.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Where did you know?
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: How did you learn and develop your style?
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: essentially, yeah, it's interesting.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: So I start when I first started landscape photography, I was like very heavily inspired by, like Daniel Corden and and George Hammond and um Max Munch Another big inspiration Um, and yeah, I just sort of got into this, like it's funny, because it's not that I specifically tried to develop my style, it sort of just happened organically.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: It's sort of it's developed on its own, I guess.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: But I then started drawing a lot of inspiration from minimalism and, um, that's when I noticed Carl Shakur also posting.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: His styles changed so much now and he's obviously he's pivoted a lot, but uh, that sort of style like, uh, also, josiah, um, he's also got a you know, incredible style.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: He obviously does a lot of underwater stuff now, but that just saw that more abstract, um, minimalist style where there is a lot less going on in the frame and the frame's a lot cleaner and you might look and go oof that that you know, like a person placed in an odd position with like not much going on.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Specifically, that's why I was posting a lot of sand dunes always, cause that's probably one of my favorite things to shoot.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: It's just like you've just got a beautiful landscape with all these colors and textures and like all the stuff going on, but it's so simple at the same time.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, I just started trying to post a lot more minimal uh stuff and, like I was just gravitating towards, uh, minimal frames.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: I'll post something busy now and then, um, but yeah, that's definitely how my sort of style came to fruition.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Um, interesting how you went from essentially graffiti busy to street busy to now kind of the opposite, almost.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: It's funny because when I, when I see a photo that I really like, it's a photo that has breathing space.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: It's a photo that, like you've got a subject and everything is well balanced and there's just space to this space, in this space to breathe in the frame, and to me that like feels good when I look at it, you know and um, and that's what sort of that inspired me to start creating frames that just were a lot more, a lot more minimal.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: Um, what about the color?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Where did that, you know?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Is it purely like color theory and you learn it kind of in a technical way or you just experiment?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: It's more so experimental, Um, but I've always, since I was young, I've always been inspired by like a lot of organic sandstone tones, Um, and like muted greens.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Is you know anything muted and more like organic and you know, like muted burgundy and just stuff that like isn't popping too hard?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think a lot of that inspiration came from, um, my mom.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Actually she had a clothing line called tweric clothing.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, it was inspired by the tweric from, uh, the Sahara and a lot of that whole clothing line was built around these organic colors and these sort of like very muted tones and I think maybe that might have been some sort of inspiration that came through.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Um, and, yeah, I just love like organic, muted tones and that's sort of what led me to like desaturating the shit out of out of greens.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Uh, I'm sort of bringing a little bit more saturation back, but it's like at one point they were like gray.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: It's like wasn't green at all.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: You know same kind of principle with uh video.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, similar, Although I don't really approach like the grading of video with that sort of.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I used to, but now I'm like I'm really liking just the organic look of frames with like a very minimal grade.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: You know, chuck that log profile on and and then tweak a few colors, but most of the time like yeah, if I am desaturating anything, it's, most of the time it's blues and greens.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Just some like taking a little bit of the blue art, getting the green more into that muted sort of like um camo, look yeah and um and that's about it.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: So going back to kind of the your, your color palette, should we say, with your photos, um, you, your favorite photo, which you can bring out in a minute, is is very muted as well, but based on the environment that it's in right, which is Greenland, do you want to tell us about that shot and we'll put it on the screen for those watching?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: So the shot um I I took in 2020, um, during my inspired, um, no, my visit Greenland, uh, bob, um, and I remember that morning we were in, uh, in Lulis snow.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: We went to Lulis, we went to Disco Island and, um, it was like middle of winter or tail, and it was in March, so it was pretty, still pretty cold.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Um, and we were the only tourists, tourists that had been to Disco Island in like three months that had not seen anyone.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Um, cause it's super secluded and like all the ice sheets freeze in winter and specifically this winter was a very cold one and, um, yeah, you, the only way in to Disco Island, in and out, is via helicopter.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: So we took a chopper, flew into Disco Island and we're there for like four, four days, I think, and it was like minus 25, like on average.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: It was fucking incredibly cold as well.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Wind, um, just brutal conditions, like the most brutal conditions.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: See, when we were in Greenland, I got frostbite, um on one of my toes and had to like go to the hospital and get it like sliced and and and drained and like, oh, yeah, it was.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: That was probably the most pain I've ever felt, besides like breaking my arms.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Actually, that was probably the most pain I've ever felt.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Um, it's crazy because, um, when you lose, I know I'm going a little bit off.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: No, but hang on.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: And so frostbite, I would assume is, is numbness as well, or am I?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: it's numbness, until the blood starts coming back into that part of the body and like, cause, what happens is all the blood leaves.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: So then you, it's like it starts that part of the body starts dying, um, and then when it starts warming up again, that is when you need like a bottle of fucking tequila to like chill you up, because I wasn't, I was in tears, um, and uh, yeah, I basically I'd worn a boot that was a little bit too small for me, disco boot.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: Um, I'd worn my disco boots.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Actually, it wasn't on disco Island at the time, we're on ice sheets, but they don't need to know we are on ice sheets, uh, in the like in the outback of the Lulisat, which is honestly one of the most beautiful places to visit in Greenland.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Um, but, yeah, I'd worn a boot that was too small for me and it had started just cutting off the blood supply of my left big toe and we had driven on the snowmobiles two hours out onto these ice sheets and then on the way back, we went and stayed in this igloo lodge and then stay in one of the actual igloos Although we had the choice to, um, and then when I got back, like I could feel like something started right.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: I couldn't feel my left toe and then we, when we got back um, I took it off and then we're, when we were in warmth, like my toe started warming up again and that's when the blood started coming back into the toe and that feeling is like it's just so.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: It's excruciating pain, excruciating Like I was in tears.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: So but why did you get frostbite?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Because if the shoe was too small, so then that started cutting off some of the blood.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there's no blood to keep that part of the toe warm and then it's essentially starts freezing.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it wasn't that it was necessarily exposed to the cold as exposed as much to the rest of your foot, but it was interesting, yeah, so then you went to the hospital after that, so I went to the hospital the following day.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, um, so yeah, that that happened.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: That's how cold.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: It was Just so brutal.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, you step outside and you got, like you know, frost all over your eyelashes, like instantly.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Um, so this morning, this one particular morning at Disco Island, um, I got up, uh, I was with Luke Stakle with Luke, uh, and he was like no, no, no, fuck, this I'm going to, I'm going to sleep in, too cold out there, like I was like okay, well, I'm going to go out because we only have like one sunrise left, or maybe that was the second last sunrise of Disco Island.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: And during that trip sure Sunrises as well, I guess at that time of year, yeah, super short, um, and I I head out.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: I was using Mavic 2 at the time, um, and just like trekked for like half an hour to the furthest point, uh, of this island to go shoot the the icebergs and, um, I trekked out.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: It was like super windy, super cold, must have been around minus 25.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And I, uh, yeah, I basically took this photo.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: I sent the drone like two or three kilometers out and there was this one iceberg that had just been frozen, um into the size sheet, um, and can I have a look at it again?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't, didn't look at it in detail, yeah, so that's the.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: That's the photo.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: That's insane.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Um, and that's that.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Iceberg is like three stories high or something it was massive and with with the drone okay In that temperature.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: So um, it's crazy, cause I almost didn't get this shot.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, this, this, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: The shadows make it for me.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: So it's crazy, cause I almost didn't get this photo.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Um, I, I flew, took that shot and on the way back, um, I, actually no, I got the drone back and I was like, fuck this, I'm sending the, I'm sending another battery, like it's just too sick out there, like there's just there's so much stuff to shoot, although this was probably one of the best, best things to shoot.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: And, um, I, I said the, I sent the, the drone back out and, um, I flew, took some photos and on the way back in it, just like it just got too cold too quickly, and um, it ended up like auto landing onto one of the ice sheets, I don't know, like, uh, it must have been like half a kilometer out onto this ice sheet and I was like well, there goes my drone with like one of my favorite photos.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't know it was one of my favorite photos, but like I knew that.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: I was taken.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I knew I had taken some epic stuff out there and, uh, drone landed on the ice sheets and I was like fuck, well, I guess that's gone.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: You know, drone, and all these photo and incredible photos I'd just taken.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Luckily, one of the guys, um, he was running the hotel, um hotel to Scotland, I think it's called Um.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: He was like an ice sheet fisherman, so he would often go out into the ice sheets and and go fishing and he trekked out all the way onto this ice sheet and got my drone and bought it I think it was the ice super thin in some areas.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: He went out and he tested every meter in on the way in and back.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Um, because then?
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: So it's crazy, if you fall through that ice sheet, you've gone.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like the amount of current that's underneath there.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, it's one of the most.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: I was tempted to try to go out on my own, and just like but then you're within a minute probably.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, are you just gone?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Like are you?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Because there's there's so much thick ice sheet that once you threw, you just like you, you know.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: So it's.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: So it's very, very dangerous.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and this guy, yeah, he went and got my drone, brought it back to me and, uh, I got this photo.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: Uh, and it's funny because this photo I actually sold, um as an NFT and it was the first NFT I ever sold, um, I went to it and sold it for two ETH, like a day later, nice, yeah, and at the time it was like I know ETH was like 4k or something.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it was a pretty, pretty significant uh moment for me, um, at the sort of start of my NFT journey, I guess.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: That's a nice little segue into NFTs.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: Tell us cause you.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: You seem to be pretty active on on um, you know, opensea and Foundation and your NFT sales.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Is that something you you know um consistently and deliberately put time into?
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Or is it more of a just a?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know I should mint something now.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: Or is it part of, is it really part of your business strategy?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Well, not right now.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I was heavily involved in the space, just like so many other people, yep, um.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: And then the.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: You know when the board, when, when we went there, uh, for anyone who's wants to know what that means, it's basically when we went into a bear cycle.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: So the you know everyone's everything started capitulating and still at the bottom of it right now and the and the market went down.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Um, you know like people go where money flows, I guess, and there was a lot of money flowing through the NFT space at that time and it was like this super exciting new environment where suddenly, you know, people were making a ton of cash or selling their art, and people still are, um, it just you know, when things turned bear, a lot of the community sort of like got diluted and sort of uh left, twitter and the NFT community these buntangs, you know, the NFT community uh sort of got super diluted and and a lot of the tight knit people that were all sort of having tour of spaces and um supporting each other, like left, you know, not everyone, there's still a lot of people there Um, but I just like, I guess I was there at the right time at the right place during the bull run and minted a bunch of stuff and it was very exciting and, um, I definitely will mint stuff.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: It's funny cause I got I tried so hard to get accepted onto super air for so long, got accepted, and now I'm sitting on like four of some of my favorite pieces of work that are ready to be minted onto super airs, like my Genesis pieces, and I just feel like it's not the right time.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: Um, and I've had so many other things going on with work and life that I just was like I'll, I'll eventually mint them.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but, yeah, I just didn't feel like it was the right time and, um, yeah, the the NFT space was, was crazy.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: It was interesting, uh, cause I got into it and minted a few pieces and then minted a collection of 50 images that sold out over a period of like four days.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: Um, and that was like wow, like you know, I can't believe I just sold all my work, you know, to people on the internet and friends you know, friends also we were all supporting each other at the time, which is, which is awesome.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, finn was also into it.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, a few other close friends where we were all just like in these groups and like oh dude, what are you minting?
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm minting this, and at the same time we were all flipping JPEGs and trading NFTs.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Uh and yeah, I got heavily, heavily involved with trading.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Nfts Actually became like a little bit unhealthy at one point where I was trading almost every day, all day.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Um, spending a lot of time on Twitter, spending a ton of time on Twitter Um made some.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: X as it is now.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, x, I mean, I made some great cash.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: I also lost a lot, you know cause.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: It's like when do you like, when do you draw the line?
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: You know, um, eventually you just end up like trading more and more and more and then you make a win, then you make a loss and you make a win and eventually, like, I've still came out on top, but eventually it became like, yeah, somewhat of an addiction, Um, and I think a lot of people experienced that, uh, during the during the bull run, Um, and yeah, I learned a lot of lessons though through that time and yeah, it was exciting you know what is your advice, with regards to NFTs, to newcomers in the space or beginner photographers.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: Um, I would say, like, do your research, um, and do a lot of it, because, uh, yeah, this that's funny, because the, the, the barrier to entry, is not actually difficult Um, once you just have a decent idea of what to do.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, doing doing research on the platforms that you want to mint your work onto, um, going in and getting involved in the communities and listening to Twitter spaces, because there's so much to learn.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: Uh, I haven't been on many Twitter spaces recently, but I would imagine that there are still a lot going on and you can learn a lot about.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: NFTs.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and YouTube is such a such a great place, uh, for information on NFTs.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Um, but, yeah, I think like just getting involved in the community, uh, not going in and minting a bunch of stuff straight away.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Rather like, if you want to, if you actually want to go in and sell work, go in and get involved and try to understand the community and try like really become you know, um, yeah, become somewhat of a of a person that's involved in that community, that doesn't just come in and like do a cash grab.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: Um, like before, before I had minted my big collection, I was so heavily involved in the community for like months, you know, and on many Twitter spaces, and I feel like that's a good way to gain trust on people and and and for people to like.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: So you're not just like dropping a piece into, uh, into an open echo chamber, you know.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: You just actually you're dropping a piece that will get shared by a lot of the community and when it gets shared, then eventually a collector sees it and that's how you you get birds, I think.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think that's the the main approach, um what about advice, for?
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a few few areas we can go down now, but, um, I guess a couple of tips and tricks that you could offer certainly begin in photographers, or people who haven't, who are still figuring out where they want to go with videography and photography.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: Let's start with social media first Like, and then we talked about our own experiences.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: But if you're, if you're starting out, you know what?
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: What advice could you give to to a seasoned professional like yourself when it comes to, let's say, instagram?
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say consistency.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, like the more consistent you are if you want to grow your account, like consistency is key, um, and putting out obviously good work.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: You know you can be super consistent, but if you don't have like a good body of work, that it's it could be, you know, somewhat difficult.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: So then that sort of leads me to like perfect your craft and just working on your craft and um and figuring out your style and and by doing that you need, you just need to spend a lot of time doing it, you know um so just practice.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: It sounds.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: It sounds cliche and I'm sure a lot of people give this the same answer, but yeah, including me.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: I give the same answer.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, practice is key.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: And and and consistency.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Um, and then also like, yeah, it's funny because when I got into photography and started getting involved on Instagram, like having networking is actually super beneficial, um, and I started shooting with a lot of photographers that were a lot bigger than me and I learned a lot from them.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: So, just like reaching out.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: I know it can be hard, but just like reaching out.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, just reaching out to photographers that you admire.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: You might not always get an answer, a reply back, because people are busy and a lot of the bigger photographers get a ton of DMs all the time.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, but let's say you're traveling to a place like Bali, um, uh, that you know a lot of photographers live and maybe you follow a few photographers from here.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: There's no harm in reaching out, just like hey, man, like I love your work, I'd love to have a coffee Cause.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time, like, if I get hit up like that and a person's like they're not just asking me for information, they more say like hey, I would love to join, like have a coffee with you.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: I am more than happy to, if I'm free, you know, meet that person and just like, have a coffee and chat, you know.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think reaching out and, yeah, in terms of growing, I mean keeping your finger on the pulse with trends if you really want to grow, like reels are obviously, evidently a great way to grow Um, it was a lot different when I started out, because it was more so, just like, put out really incredible photos and posts on a daily basis.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, things have changed a lot now.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you really got to be putting a lot.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Like, if you want to grow, you got to be posting reels daily.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: It's definitely added a different dynamic to a photographer's um approach Right To to that, because you've got to completely pivot, Like it certainly is a photographer who let's say, a photographer such as myself who doesn't do any video, Like now, you've got to start thinking about motion and piecing all the way and piecing it all together and that exactly, oh God like you've got to start learning even just the basics of a new format.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: Interesting advice.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: What about, um, technical stuff Like we?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: You know we talked about your, your gear bag.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: What's in there?
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: The lenses you like.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: But you know, let's say someone is is want to shoot, wants to shoot like Kyle.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: Um, what kind of beginner or started gear you know, budget friendly gear would you, would you recommend?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm looking at, you know, learning from my, my, my lessons.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, I would probably start off with the 24 to 70, uh from Sigma, because it's a little bit more affordable, Um, then like a native lens from from Sony.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Um, and I'll just probably get like, yeah, there's a camera that came out recently.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: You could probably uh remind me of it.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: It's a Sony.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: It's called, like, the ZEDI, I think.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Um.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: I think it is a ZEDI.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: Is it ZEDI?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: I might be wrong.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: But if you look at, if you look at, if you look at recent cameras that have come out from Sony um I think it's, I think it's APSC, but you can shoot great video.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: You can shoot great photos If you have a little bit more budget.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: I think the a seven four is like a great, great option of budgets.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: No issue, get a like a um, yeah, uh.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: But in terms of starting out, yeah, just get an all round lens and, like I, I first got the 16 to 35.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: If you want to just if you super interested in landscape photography and want to shoot ultra wide, maybe go for 16 to 35.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: I would probably just go for 24 70, because you can still shoot really nice landscape, so 24,.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: If you really want to get wired, you can shoot panorama with a 24.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: So for people who don't understand what that is, it's taking a few photos and then stitching them together in Photoshop or Lightroom.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, that would be my starter kit, just getting one all round lens.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: If you really tight on budget, I would get probably like a nifty 50 or something.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: You know that you can pick up for like a hundred to 200 bucks.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: My favorite lens.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: Um nifty 50 for people is a 50 millimetre lens, yeah, which is such a beautiful focal length, honestly, uh, it just works with pretty much every, pretty much everything, yeah, um yeah, that's where I would start.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: Uh, post processing is because buying my pre-set packs there we go we will link them in the description Um, it can be a minefield for, uh, certainly, with, you know, updates almost monthly at the moment.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be a minefield to learn the even just the basics of something like Lightroom, or actually Photoshop is just for me, when I started learning Photoshop was like just I don't get this Photoshop thing.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Lightroom was a bit more user friendly.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: But you know recommendations or advice for for people, you know, just starting in that, what, what can you?
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: YouTube.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: Honestly, when someone asked me that, like, hey, dude, how do you do this?
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like YouTube, like anything you want to know about, anything like dodging and burning, like how does it just?
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: How did how to retouch photos, like anything you want to know, you can find it on YouTube.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Like anything Like you can, I taught myself everything I know from from YouTube.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: I think I bought one photography course back in the day, uh, from Daniel Corden.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, um, I don't use any of those techniques that I learned there anymore, um, besides, maybe a little, a little bit of dodging and burning.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, honestly, like, if you just had, like, I get so many questions from people that they could easily just find on YouTube if they just went and typed it in.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: You know, um, I guess now, like even chat, ept is a great, a great tool, uh, for people who want to understand something or get a breakdown of of of the exposure triangle, or you know how to expose images properly or how to under expose images, so you retain all your information in the highlights.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, there's just so much you can you can learn through through YouTube and the other tools that we have available right now.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: Speaking of AI, do you you know what?
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: What do you see the effect of AI having on photography and videography space?
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: I mean specifically photography.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's more.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: It's going to affect more or more quickly.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Um, is that something you get concerned about?
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: Um, no, not actually, um, I don't get concerned about it because, like, ai can't tell a story and, you know, ai also can't go and experience that place in person and capture that, those images, um, and for me, that's something that AI will never be able to do, you know, um, because I mean, maybe, if there's a, if there's a fucking AI robot you know robots that can actually go into into old daily and go shoot portraits but I think we, far out from you know, from that, um, but yeah, just the fact that, like AI, won't have the same, we'll never have the same approach as a human in terms of, like, how we see things and capture things and us being able to ask, being storytellers was, you know, as of as photographers and filmmakers, I think, yeah, as being still still being able to tell those stories is what separates us from, for, may I, um, what are?
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: the what do you?
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, does it ever come up in conversation with clients and brands?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Did it, did they have they mentioned it?
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: Do they talk about that kind of thing?
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: No, no, I haven't.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: I think we still still a ways out.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: I feel like it could.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: You know, no one knows how things, how fast things, can develop, and things are developing really quickly, which can be daunting for people.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Um, my sort of approach to AI is, like you know, I feel like there's so many, um, so many positives to it.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: That's a double-edged sword, right?
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: So it's like, uh, yeah, there's so many positives with so many negatives at the same time, where people could start relying on it too much that they stop using their sort of creative muscles, Um, and just become so codependent on this thing that they just use it for everything.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: You know, I use it for a lot, but I'm still cognitive of the fact that, like, I still want to be able to, like, exercise my creative mind.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Um, and I feel like that's that's sort of that could lead to a problem where people are just too codependent on it that they're unable to just create for themselves anymore and they just turn to it all the time.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Um, and in terms of like, I mean, obviously, on Instagram now, you're seeing a ton more AI because of Majone and how that's developed, and some of the images that are coming out of there are like crazy.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: You know, um, I've, I, I mean, I've even been using AI to build pitch decks because I'm like, I have an idea for an image that I want to capture, uh, or frame from a film that I want to.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: You know, shoot, and I'll use AI to create, uh, to create the artwork in the pitch deck or for the pitch deck.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, it's obviously a concern where, uh, people, where you see AI being posted so often and it's looking so like it's just becoming so real, Um, you can obviously still tell the like a train for a train to.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: I can still tell the difference.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: I could tell anytime at the moment, yeah, but it does sort of like beg the question of like, how, how quickly is this going to develop and how far is it going to go?
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: Because if you look at the sort of timeline of when the journey came out and the images that it was creating versus now, that gap is significant.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: You know, Um, and also, you know I'm I'm not personally concerned about it, because it sort of goes back to that whole story thing and I feel like there's always going to be a place for humans to tell stories and we use the tools that we, you know we'll have, we'll have at the moment to to tell those stories Um, but there have been a few companies that have been using AI to tell stories that I've seen using AI to create like ad campaigns, Um, I think Adidas might have been one of them I might be wrong and they got an entire fashion campaign.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: They created an entire fashion campaign with with Majani Um and used it, you know.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: So, you know, prior to Majani, a photographer would have created that campaign.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: So I can definitely see a few jobs being filled, um by AI, which which can be a cause for concern, for sure, Definitely Um the fashion and the advertisement photography niche is one of the first ones to go.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: I would say so yeah.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it begs the question okay, you know what are the images used for.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: Let's take your favorite image and pick that out.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: If that's to be used by a tourism agency, right, then Majani could recreate that easily.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, it could, could do it easily.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: Now, whether it would be as good, I mean, you'd probably have to have a few stabs at it.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: My point is, at some point whether it's in the next three months, three years or five years, I mean, it's not going to be longer than that and Majani is going to be able to just fucking nail that, if not, do a better job, you know.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: So what, what, what?
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: I don't what?
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: We don't have the answers yet for, uh, you know, the, the, the authenticity of those photos, and if that's going to be something that people are using, those images care about.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: So if they're to put an artificial intelligence photo on there that looks the same as a photographers or you know, or better, in their opinion, then are they going to be morally or ethically challenged to post that and say that this is the place, or they're going to have to require it to be authenticated as real Right, and that's.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: I think that's such a big thing that I don't see happening yet, but it needs to happen is where images get authenticated as real or AI, and then we all know where we stand.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a level playing field.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Right, if, if brands want to use AI, that's fine, but it will have to say AI image, yeah, and then it's up to the viewer to discern whether, okay, I, you know, I want to say a real image, I want to hear about a real story.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but aesthetically, yeah, it's yeah.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: This is where um, this is where NFTs come in, um with unshamed provenance.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: Um, because that's going to be the best way for companies to be able to do that and companies to be like, oh, they can see on chain that this image was, uh, created by person.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: Um, because it's linked to their wallet address and that photographer, you know like we're going to have eventually, we're going to have full profiles that, like our whole gallery would be authenticated like with on chain provenance provenance through the.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: The utilization of NFTs and I think that's probably one of the biggest use cases that I see for NFTs in the future is um authenticating on chain.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: Um, because like, like well, I can't remember the saying now, but it's like something like um on chain doesn't lie, you know it's on chain, like you, you, you can see exactly where it's from, who it's from.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's real.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, would you advise beginner photographers to still pursue photography at present day?
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Totally yeah, because.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think of everything I've mentioned.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: You know the connections you build, the people you meet, the experiences you have, um but if the chances of making money, making a career out of it, are slimmer because of AI and we have to be honest with ourselves, like there are, there are parts of the photography industry that are going to completely be eviscerated because of AI then your chances of succeeding plus the added saturation of the space in general, plus more challenges on social media and the saturation of that as a tool to grow I'm not a pessimist, but I'm kind of um, a moderate, I guess somewhere in the middle yeah, you know, I don't.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: I'd I'd have to look very deeply within myself to say to a beginner like you know, this is the fucking shit, you've got to go, you've got to go after it, yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: It's a tough one because we don't really know how fast this text is going to develop over the next year, yeah.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: It's been like the, the, the AI growth, since everyone was like, oh, by the way, we have AI tech, like that.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: Since that came out, it's been like a run to the bank, right, this being just.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, every day there's hundreds of companies that are being launched and so many tech startups that, like everyone is just, it's like the AI bull run, you know, and the exponential growth that we will see and are seeing right now is pretty crazy.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: Um, because the smarter AI gets, the smarter AI can get.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, it's just, it's going to be interesting to see how things unravel.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, you could look at it from the sort of pessimistic standpoints and you're like, you know, bro, you should probably just get into AI.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be a thing AI image generation.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I started an AI account like a couple of months ago just because Did you, because I've yeah, I mean I've posted probably like four or five images on there.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: What's?
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: That called Give us the handle.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: It's called wave function.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Not duality.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: Dual colors yeah.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: You're never going to let that one go.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: No yeah.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: Wave.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: It's called wave function and it's probably about five AI images on there, super abstract, because I actually really like abstract art, and yeah it's.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: If you want to search it up, it's WVFNTCN.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: So like without yeah.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: Not a VALS.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: And I'll probably end up posting some AI.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: I'm super interested in art and I think you can get some incredible outputs from this software and it's fun.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: It's just fun to like put a crazy thing in.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Like if you look on that account, I was typing in like old, stoic Egyptian pyramid sculpture covered in like white paint and gold, like glitter, and it just created the most insane images I've ever seen.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like what the fuck Like this is?
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: This is sick, you know.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: Like it's a split.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: It's bittersweet because I don't play around with as much anymore, just because I have a priorities.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: But I love, I love mid-genny and just this new something.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: We've got this new tool at our disposal for people who want to create, enjoy creating images, usually with a camera, but yeah, the quality of this this, you know, it's just insane.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: I, you know to be able to type stuff in and have that as a technique in itself, learn how to prompt and to put the right things in, but it is amazing how much you can get out of it.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: But the reason I say it's bittersweet is because you get something back and meet relatively immediately within.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: You know however many seconds get the first kind of gratification and you go what?
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: That's what we want.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: But then you go.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: That's a bit easy.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it takes the whole process and the craft and the, the fucking mistakes and the learning lessons, and that it just kind of just pushes all that aside.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: Exactly, there is a beauty in that.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: But you go back to stories, human experiences, emotions, learning lessons, skill education, perceptions, community meeting people, getting inspired all of that out the window and immediately you just have this instant again.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: We have all this instant gratification like give me, give me, feed me, feed me, feed me Instant, instant.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: And so you get, you get something back, go, wow, that's amazing.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: You go oh, um, what's my next prompt?
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: What next?
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: Or that was okay, that's done.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: What's next?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: Because, yeah, I mean, think about it this way Sit and AI AI artists down in this chair and ask them what the story is about their favorite image.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, that story probably won't involve frostbite and minus 25 degrees on a remote island off the West Coast.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: Agreement, yeah, Um, and that's a good way to look at it.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: You know like there's so much that goes into like some people spend 10 years trying to get one photo.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: You know like there's so much that goes into that people don't understand that goes into getting these photos and creating these videos, and like the travel and like the, the, the pain that you have to go through, and like, yeah, there's just all of that that is behind the images that we create.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: That just wouldn't be behind any AI image.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: And I think that will always remain.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: I just believe it will be a small, more like a cottage industry.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: Like film, like film photography, where it's still around, will always be around because it's just a, it's just a different art form and people will always love it.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: Humans will always love that.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: It's just not a huge, a huge sector of the of the photography industry.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: It's a part of it and a perennial part of it, but it's just not a dominant force.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: It's still there and I think, I believe, anyway, digital photography will will will always be around for and the best will always rise to the top If you're good at what you're doing.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: So, going back to my question about how you would advise beginners like I would, I definitely agree with you, and it's it's comes back to and you mentioned it a few times like, do you, do you love it?
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like anything in life, like, follow what you love Exactly.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: If you love that and you know, maybe you you have a steeper hill to climb when it comes to making a career or success, however you would define that, or financial success Then if that's not, that's not a, you know, huge upsetting point for you then focus on the process.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: The process is way more important than the goal Right.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: And so if people can at least remember that and if they're starting to go you know I fucking love photography, but I'm concerned about where it might take me Well, fucking do it.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just enjoy it.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: Enjoy the process.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great point honestly, because, like, yeah, I've enjoyed, you know, I've enjoyed so much of the process to go from where I was in, you know, 2018 to where I'm now.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not like, would it trade?
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't trade it for anything.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just been like such an incredible journey and I would recommend anyone to take that journey, even if finances aren't sort of on the cards right now or could potentially be a struggle in the future.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: How do you get jobs?
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: How do I get jobs?
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: They just come to me.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: From AI.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: Mid-journey presents me with pitch decks.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Like you know I would.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time I'll get contacted by someone.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: I'll get an email A lot of my biggest jobs that I've had.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: I've just received an email and someone's like hey, I saw your work somewhere and you know I'd love to work with you.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I don't know if you saw the Sri Lanka edit that I put out.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: So I spent too much shooting in Sri Lanka in 2019 and put together like a four-minute cinematic edit and this edit then got picked up by BD Beautiful Destinations in 2020 and they featured it on the BD channel and it got like a few million views or something.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly how much, but from that one film I've gotten pretty much all my biggest jobs.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: That one film and that was just a passion project and literally like my like, I had a client from Tanzania that I did a bunch of work for, where I climbed Kilimanjaro and shot a full cinematic edits of the whole climb.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: That was probably one of the most exciting jobs I've done.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: That came from that client watching that edit.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: And where can we find the Sri Lanka edit On the B?
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: If you just type in Sri Lanka, heart of the Indian Ocean, it'll come up.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, heart of the Indian Ocean, yeah, okay, and all the work that I currently have for BD has come from that one edit.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, all my biggest jobs have essentially come from that one edit.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: And that's why I think passion projects are so important, because, yes, you're just doing it for yourself at the time, but the fucking tidal wave of work that could come from just one special film is like, yeah, it's crazy and it has been for me.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I would recommend like, if someone has a good idea and they want to shoot something like, go and do it.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: You know, put your heart into it.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: This comes back to actually what you were talking about earlier, which I completely, 100% agree with.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, practice is a cliche, but it's fucking true.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: And practice the term practice doesn't mean you're sitting in a room learning how to use a camera, it's just getting out there shooting, editing, shooting, editing, shooting, editing, shooting, editing.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: And you can apply that to all of the kind of the outputs that you want to utilize for your images or for your videos.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: Instagram same thing.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: It's like, if you want to grow on Instagram, go spend a year getting fucking sick content, or spend nine months practicing until you got to a point where you can go and do three months of amazing content.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: You have this bank that you can just leverage.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: We're talking about our friend, chris, who's amazing and, for me, as part of his audience, wants to see all of his stuff right.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: But he's harnessed his craft so well that he's just surfing the wave of one piece of content because it's so good and he spent so long getting to that point where it sounds like you were in a similar fashion, just more of a kind of a business benefit from it, and that's really what it all stems from.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: All of this stems from yeah, it's a passion product, but you could.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: You only felt you could do that passion product because of the years of just grind that you put into learning about all this, trying, testing, finding a style, seeing what people like, doing this, doing that, doing this trip, after the next trip, after the next trip.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, from what you're saying and has been saying over the last few hours, that really strikes gold with me is you know, I talk about practice a lot, but really I mean just do, just go and do.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: Just go and do it.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, experience, yeah, and it's going to be like just getting that experience will just give you so much.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: Because, like you, I get many questions, especially on Instagram, about equipment.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for this shot, what camera did you use?
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: It's not the question you should be asking.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it is a question you should be asking, but it's not the most important question you should be asking.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: It's like and I'll answer it, of course, like I love all those questions, but the question you should be answering is what was the process behind this?
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: How did you go and do it?
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: What did you need to know to do it?
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: What were you thinking when you would?
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: Is this part of a bigger series or what's the idea?
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: What's, what was the inspiration?
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the journey.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: You know, what was the two weeks leading up to this one shot about?
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: How did you get the person coming?
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: All of that stuff right Is how you really learn, and then you can take it into the field and go.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, I can do it.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no matter what fucking camera you have.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: Obviously, if you have a better camera, you're likely of getting a better shot is like a glass of blood, maybe, or something.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just hide behind the quality of the medium format.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to finish with a couple of questions.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: I haven't taken away too much of your time, but it's just been fascinating conversation.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: One thing I saw in my reset view I mean, I've been following for a while but just diving a little bit deeper as much as I could before, you know, jumping on a chat with you One kind of line that I spotted that I think you had on your website was the reason you do what you do but to create a positive change in the world.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: Can you elaborate a little bit more on kind of what you do and how you do that in terms of your definition of a positive change?
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question and I feel like I feel like I'm still working towards that actually, because, yeah, the way that I envision making a positive change is number one, even just affecting like the mentality of one person and like one person's outlook.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: So if I post the photo and one person is inspired to go to Sri Lanka and go on that trip, to me that's a positive change.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: So, but that sort of stems to various different things and it's also evolved over the years in terms of, like the change that I want to see.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: But for me, sort of moving forward on the positive change that I would like to make with my work, it's basically just hoping, like hoping people that are not fortunate enough to be in a position that I'm in, and whether that's like through inspiring people or photography tutorials or, yeah, just simply hoping a person if they reach out with the question, to me that's somewhat of a positive change.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: And then, in terms of more of a macro scale because there's sort of different levels to this the way that I've sort of been envisioning myself move in the future with my career is like if I can get an event, let's say I find an investor for to create a film, you know, whether it's a tourism brand or some company that wants to utilize their capital to make somewhat of a positive change, whether it's big or small, would be like for, just for an example, right, let's say, there's a village somewhere in Sambawa and they are they struggling with clean water because they're not getting enough rain, like, of course, this is just hypothetical, right, but this is the sort of direction that I would like to move once I'm sort of like in that position, or, and I feel like I'm sort of on the cusp, on getting to that point, you know, especially working with companies like this world and, yeah, being in the position where you can go, okay, I want to go tell a story, whether it's about a village or one person or town or, you know, doesn't really matter but like finding an interest, interesting story to tell, right, and then utilizing the funds or capital that you get from an investor or client to implement like fresh water, like water systems or hydropower or solar, or helping with rehabilitation of soil, you know, because that's a major issue right throughout the whole planet now.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: So, like these things where all building a few schools in a village, like, for example, let's say, there's a village in the middle of Southeast Asia, somewhere that's super remote and kids don't have the right facilities for learning.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe you go there and you tell a story, you create a super cinematic edit telling a story about maybe one of the village leaders or how this village has been developing over the years, or their struggles with modern day society, and then utilizing capital from investors or from a company that wants to make a change, to implement something in that village and that's going to benefit them for years to come, and that, for me, is like the direction that I would like to move in terms of like making a positive change.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: So there's different levels to it, but when someone says like, hey, how do you want to like use your photography or your videography to like do something positive in the world, this is the sort of like vision that I have and would like to sort of follow.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: Of course, it's not that easy because not every company is like, hey, here's 30 grand to go do this and, yeah, it's going to cost an extra 20 to build like fresh water systems into this, into this village.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: So it's a little bit difficult to sort of get people on board with those sort of projects, but I feel like, yeah, there is so much potential for that and there is so much potential for utilizing our reach through social media and the tools that we have to document and capture things, whether it's through videography or photography to really make a change and not make a change in the fact that it's going to affect the whole globe.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: But even if you just make the change and approve you know the lives of 30 people in a small village in Sambawa or anywhere I feel like that's still making a massive change, absolutely.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that's sort of the vision that I have in terms of where I would like to go and sort of what I'm working towards.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: Can you incorporate part of your fee, as you know, transparently, to whichever brand you're working with?
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: Say you know, a portion of this goes to a certain cause.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: Is that something that photographers do, or that?
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: you do.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: I haven't done much of that.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good thing.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've still.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: You know it's funny because I've been shooting for a while but essentially like because of COVID.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't have much work actually through COVID and then only tail end of last year this year I've started actually getting like a few decent clients.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: But I was, you know, like full transparency, scraping the barrel for like quite a few years to make ends meet and living super hand to mouth.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: You were the charity.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just trying to feed myself.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: But now as things sort of develop and I'm sort of getting better clients, that's definitely something I can look at.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: And yeah, like building that into a fee, depending on what clients you're dealing with, I think is probably a good idea.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: I think you're right.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: Going from zero to, like you know, building a village or infrastructure in a village is difficult, right, yeah, I mean you have to.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: But going back to what you're talking on a more individual level, you definitely inspire thousands of people.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: You know you've got over a hundred thousand followers.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: Let's say, even 20% of those people right, actively engage and follow and love you for what you do Like that's amazing.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's incumbent upon photographers, videographers, artists, and a byproduct of what we do is naturally give other people pleasure and if that's inspiring people and helping people and putting a smile on someone's face, like fucking what a privilege.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: And you do that.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: So I don't even have to worry about that part of it.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: But it is an interesting discussion when you get to a certain level as an artist or a creative, like, where kind of a responsibility kind of sets in as like, if you believe you want to make a certain change, how to kind of factor that into every conversation, every business deal, or is that?
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: You know, there's no answer to it.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: Everyone has their own ways of doing it and some not at all, which is fine.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: There's certainly no.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: You have to do this right.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: It's got to come from belief and passion.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: So good luck to you.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: I support you 100%.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cheers as kind of a final, I guess, thing we do here.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: We're just going to do a lucky dip of conversation cards and we'll end with this question.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: So let's go.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: Kind of puts you on the spot, but you know I'm sure you'd be fine.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: So if you pick, pick any.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: Actually I'll do it that way.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: Pick any card, mate.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine, all right.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: You can think about the answers.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't see it Too quick.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: Actually it's quite a long one Ready If you were lying on your deathbed.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: Wow, here we go.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: So you're dying.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're about to die.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: What three things would you want to have achieved in life, and do you do things each week that will get you there?
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a serious question.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: You got over there.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Three things huh.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: Three things that you want to have achieved in life by the time you die.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: Being present, I think, is such a major one yeah, because I could be on my deathbed next week.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably one of the most important ones for me is just being like undeniably present on a daily basis.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: How do you practice that?
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: By just trying to bring myself into the present moment and just trying to like slow down and just be like.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: I guess having it's not something that I actively do, but it's something that I do think about on a regular basis.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: I could probably be a lot better at it.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: But just like trying to hold gratitude and just trying to slow down now and then, and just trying to like look at, look from a macro standpoint, to be like, okay, where am I at right now in my life?
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: And just trying to like, yeah, just hold gratitude for that, and just and slow myself down, because it's so easy to just get caught in this like hamster wheel motion of just like the days going by, you know, and like I think it's so good to be able to just like draw yourself out of that.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: Stop, slow down, and just like be like I'm here now and just, yeah, try, try, be present, I think, cause like you, only you do really only have the now and today, yep, cause you don't know what tomorrow holds.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like so many people are caught in this cycle of just like living for tomorrow and being like what do we do?
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: You know, always planning like, always like what are we doing tomorrow?
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's?
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: next Like a perfect example, sitting down at a dinner table, friends.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: They're like guys like where should we have dinner next week?
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm like we're having dinner now, you know.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: So it's, yeah, it's, and it's all these different things that are happening on a daily basis that draw people out of the, out of the present moment.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: One of the biggest things is going to see like a show or an artist play.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: I mean at Savaya, maybe that's the perfect example Beautiful artists.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: He's playing the most insane drop ever.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: 60% of the crowd has their phones up to capture that moment, which is drawing them out of the present moment because they are capturing for the future, right?
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: So I feel like that's such a such an important thing that I am very cognitive of on a daily basis and just trying to not let myself get torn from past experiences or the like, the premonitions of what might happen in the future, and just try balance that because, yeah, I feel like that's that's something that is, you know, causing so much disease on the planet.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: You know, like scarcity mindset and and people living with the concern of what might may happen in the future, instead of just like trying to be present with the now.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably one of the main ones.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: How did you learn that?
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: Like you know, did you have some life experiences.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: Psychedelics.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, you laugh, but they are very powerful in that respect.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've learned a lot over the years from psychedelics and I'm happily, you know, I can happily tell anyone that, yeah, honestly, for my family, I grew up in a very, very humble and open-minded family that was very forward thinking and I learned a lot from my mothers.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: It's funny I say mothers, people are like what, but I, yeah, essentially, I was adopted.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: When I was seven, my mother passed away from cancer and that was my current mother's sister.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: So my real, my real mother's sister adopted me and I, yeah, through my childhood and through my teenage years, I learned so much from my family and from my mom, father, around Father.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: It's funny, it's an interesting, interesting story.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: Actually, my father, a father, left when I was one, one year old and we essentially couldn't find him for 18 years.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: So he disappeared Wow, yeah, disappeared for 18 years.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: Quick, yeah, he disappeared.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: And at the age of 18, he added me on Facebook just out of the blue, and we thought he was actually dead for 18 years, like his own sister couldn't even find him and they had like literally like investigators looking for him and they were all in South Africa, not all of them, my sister was in Australia.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, turned out he was living completely off the radar, illegally in the UK under no passport Wow yeah, and was living on a small holding and yeah, he added.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: So he added me on Facebook at the age of 18.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: I joined the boats at age of 19,.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: At the age of 21.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: I went and saw him and I flew to the UK and I spent one week with him and it was weird because it was like it was like seeing an old friend, even though I hadn't met him, you know, because he left when I was one years old, I think.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one, one and a half, something like that Just meeting a stranger, basically Just meeting a stranger, exactly.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, I felt like I knew him.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: It was just super weird.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, and yeah, as soon as we linked up, he was like, open the car door at the airport, had a six pack of beers and bolt-on on the seat and we cracked a few beers and just like, spent, you know, a week basically drinking and smoking weed, yeah, together.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: And yeah, incredible, incredible week.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: And that was, I think that was 20, it was either end of 2014 or early 2015.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: And then, in 2015, I was on the phone with him one night, had a chat with a beautiful chat with him, and he died in his sleep, like I think a few hours after.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: After that.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I had just that week, just that one week with him.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: But a beautiful week, a beautiful week.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: Incredible, incredible, incredible week.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that sort of goes back to, you know how I've sort of learned a lot of my sort of ideologies and my beliefs over the years and why I guess I also try to be absolutely present, because I've lost, yeah, not just my mother, my father, but quite a few, you know, prolific people in my life over the years and that's just really taught me how valuable and delicate and fragile our lives are on this planet, you know, and how we are just here for a very brief moment in time and yeah, that's you know why I practice to sort of be as present as possible on a daily basis, because it's so delicate, you know, and yeah, that taught me a lot and that taught me like, how to it's not even taught.
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: It forced me to sort of practice being present and just, yeah, that sort of brought me to the moment I or turned me into the person I am now essentially.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it sounds like that's a very, very kind of emotional rollercoaster, turning through some formative years, but it sounds like that would definitely shape anyone's philosophy on life moving forward to have such big losses and, well yeah, incredible.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure to have you open up to us.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: Anyways, thank you for sharing.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: I've been present with you, and that's one reason.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: I love this podcast format and sitting across from another artist and someone as amazing as you can just have an honest conversation and be in that moment at the same time.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: So thank you very much.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure, mate, and I look forward to having you on again.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolute pleasure, so good hanging out and chatting.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely keen, definitely keen for the next one, absolutely Till next time, awesome Cheers brother Cheers buddy Cheers dude.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: Cheers to that yeah.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: But no.