Latest / Divine Skintervention / Celebrity brands & trends we’re SICK of (and loving) w/ Jill Dunn & Carlene Higgins

Transcript

Celebrity brands & trends we’re SICK of (and loving) w/ Jill Dunn & Carlene Higgins · Divine Skintervention

0:04
SPEAKER_04: Hi Ramon.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: Hi Angela.
0:07
SPEAKER_04: And hello to the two heavenly thoddies sitting across from us.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, say hello to well, I mean say hello to us.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: Say hello to us, but yeah.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: But please welcome Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins from the Breaking Beauty Podcast.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: We did a pod switch this week, so listen to us on their podcast as well.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: So excited to be here.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna polish my halo and on divine skinter mention.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: You didn't bring your wings.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, we love both of you, so we're thrilled to be here.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Likewise, thank you.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:38
SPEAKER_04: So the two of you are longtime beauty editors for our audience that doesn't know, and you've been beauty podcasting for some time now.
0:49
SPEAKER_04: I think over 450 episodes of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, which we hope to achieve that someday.
0:58
SPEAKER_04: You're really like role models for us in that way.
1:01
SPEAKER_04: But um let's get your take on something that is uh blowing up on social media right now.
1:08
SPEAKER_04: These uh grinding eye patches, which we initially saw that Fenty was coming out with, then we saw a version from Glow recipe, now Huda Booty.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: And then all the brands are doing little AI generated, like, oh my god, us two.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, there's a fourth one that actually did lunches.
1:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Spider Mask.
1:28
SPEAKER_04: Have y'all ever seen anything like this before?
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna flip it to Jill because she is the so she's like our social media like expert on the show.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: She knows everything that's going on.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: I just think it's I'm not aware of this.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm a bit more nosy maybe on the internet than you.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: It's more chronically online, basically.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Um I think yeah, I think this happens constantly in the beauty industry.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: It's very rare that you're gonna have a totally novel concept for a packaging.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest, they're all launching this because there's a novel packaging um mechanism for the eye patches to be sliced out, as it were.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: So um there's very few brands that are making their own packaging, their own molds, all these things.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: It's way too expensive.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: So, what do they do?
2:12
SPEAKER_01: They go to Cosmoprof, they go to all these other makeup shows all around the world and they get presented cool new innovations.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: And usually it's you know, a race to be first to market.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: And I bet Fenty thought they were going to be first.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Actually, probably Glow Recipe thought they were going to be first, and they're not.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
2:31
SPEAKER_01: It's been kind of fun.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: They've embraced it.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're doing the Spider-Man meme.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Did you see that?
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Of their products all pointing at each other.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, that's the best way.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: That's the way, the best way to handle these things, right?
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Is like it's not so much about you know this public embarrassment, it's just it's just funny.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Like everybody knows this is gonna happen, and you know.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny is Fenty very tongue-in-cheek.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: They were in on the joke, they're the first ones to do it.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Glow recipe also.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: But then HUDA in a comment section, someone shared it in their video.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: HUDA was very much like we all got fucked over by the same manufacturer.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if HUDA has a very different feeling about that.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: But it's interesting because I know I know for a fact who does Fenty skins manufacturing in the US.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: And it is a Korean manufacturer, so I'm wondering, same manufacturer for all three of them, or like what happened there?
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: You'll start to see that.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Like last year, I think we saw the same thing with grinding cleansing bombs.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So Remedy Skincare did one.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh the K-Beauty brand that's maybe the Good Light.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: They did one.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: And you'll see that all the time.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: And we have over our career seen that many times, like a new lipstick innovation, pat or map mold or what have you.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden everybody's laser imprinting their lipsticks or whatever the case may be.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:43
SPEAKER_04: It's interesting.
3:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like the grinding cleansing balm.
3:47
SPEAKER_04: The first brand that I saw do it was Dr.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: Althea, which is a K-beauty brand.
3:50
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
3:51
SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, because a lot of the innovation is coming from there.
3:54
SPEAKER_04: I've been seeing a lot of the takes that are online about this uh this specific incident with some people saying, yeah, like these brands should have gotten exclusivity on the packaging, which it's like they were probably denied that if they asked for it, um, for sure, because this is one manufacturer doing it, and why would they grant somebody exclusivity if they could sell this to every brand and they're the only game in town?
4:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, another take that I saw that was interesting is that a lot of these brands are carried by one specific retailer here in the US who gets a sneak peek at everything's coming for that's coming for the next year.
4:32
SPEAKER_04: So it's like, what responsibility would they have in this situation to let them know, hey, um, a lot of other brands are doing this.
4:41
SPEAKER_04: My whole take is like I'm sure they're signing NDAs, and it's like this retailer cannot tell this brand that the other brand is doing the same thing.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, they know, and probably behind closed doors are like, oh, but also as editors, we're like three makes a trend and it makes it more of a story, and this happens all the time with ingredient innovations.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: We just don't see it as blatantly as a packaging innovation that is more in your face or makeup, it's the same thing.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: We see that all the time, like that freaking lip liner stain, like the markers, the peel-off ones, no, the no, the marker ones that came out, right?
5:23
SPEAKER_00: And they all had that.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: And okay, this is something I don't know if this is like legit, but so you know what I'm talking about, right?
5:33
SPEAKER_00: The marker staining um lip liners.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: And so Sarah Creole just came out with the PH PH like enhancing lip liner.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: It's basically the idea of like, you know, the lip oil lip glow from Dior.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: It's a lip liner version of that.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it comes in two shades, and I put it on, and I was like, I'm pretty sure that this is just that lip crayon stain, but they're calling it a pH liner.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, is this because the lip liner stain is like it's been done too many times, so now they're just calling it pH?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a cosmetic chemist.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: What is this a real thing?
6:15
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't I would need to see the inky.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering if it's the same like red uh dye that we use that was in like the euphoria pH blush, where I'm like, Yeah, it's it's gonna turn red no matter what.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna look different on different skin tones or whatnot.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you have a different skin tone.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
6:29
SPEAKER_04: But and it's usually they're not super opaque, so they're like, Yeah, it's your own unique shade.
6:36
SPEAKER_04: It's just like it's blending because it's not like a super opaque blush or a super opaque lip liner.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: So correct.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, but in terms of brands launching the same thing at the same time, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more, frankly, with the proliferation of brands and the churn.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Like it we have been in magazines forever.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: We started in magazines, we've been doing this career forever, and there just weren't as many brands, there weren't as many products when we first started.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: The barrier to entry was high.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Now it's not.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: So everybody's gonna be clamoring to get to market with something cool and interesting.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: And to your point, yeah, before social media came in the picture, it was a very different landscape.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: And now with the advent of we're we want to trend, we want to be hot, we want to be new, the race where literally three people reach the finish line at the same time, yeah.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Vitamass trailing close behind them.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Um we kind of went through this in our magazine era because we made the transition from magazine editorial where like the the amount of time we had to craft a story, let me tell you, it feels like such a treat now looking back.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: You could like research and then call up your sources.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: It would be like months and months to craft.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: And then toward the end, when we were doing more digital stuff, we started calling it churnalism because you're just churning out stories to keep up with the SEO, to keep up with the listicles, and on and on and on.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of see that parallel with what's happening in beauty right now because the churn is constant because I'm social.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: My thing is no one asked for this product.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: True.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: We we had we had these eye patches, and I do love a good there's a time and place.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: If I'm fundamentally, even in just supporting occlusion, I think they are really functional in that regard.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Why do we need this?
8:17
SPEAKER_02: And then why did every brand need to do this?
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a good question.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's going to the same shows.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: I think to Jill's point, it's like it is really hard to create true innovation in this day and age because everyone is going to those same shows, and that's why for me as an editor, I I am always looking for the next great thing, but like truly the next great thing, you know.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: So I think that true innovation really stands out now because it is so hard to to do that in this cluttered landscape, you know?
8:52
SPEAKER_04: I mean, but is this true innovation or is it a gimmick?
8:56
SPEAKER_04: Because to me, when I see this uh I've seen videos of this packaging opened up, it looks like it's basically like a bar of hydrogel that's getting shaved over and over again and pushed up.
9:07
SPEAKER_04: Um, it looks like this packaging could be refillable.
9:10
SPEAKER_04: I'm always thinking about sustainability.
9:12
SPEAKER_04: Part of the reason that I hate uh single-use eye patches is like they come packaged in all this plastic, you're just using it once, you're throwing away um the patches when you're done.
9:23
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, okay, is this hydrogel somehow more biodegradable than what's out there?
9:29
SPEAKER_04: Um there's a lot of plastic in that package, so like are people actually gonna repurchase?
9:35
SPEAKER_04: Because refillable packaging is like one of the um biggest, I wouldn't say scams, but it's like it's a promise that is not followed up on a lot.
9:45
SPEAKER_04: It's greenwashing because are people gonna buy that refill?
9:48
SPEAKER_04: Are they gonna repurchase this?
9:50
SPEAKER_04: Is it gonna be around for a long time?
9:52
SPEAKER_04: How recyclable is it?
9:54
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, it seems like the patches from what I've heard are not as wet.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:58
SPEAKER_04: So, like, is are they as good?
10:00
SPEAKER_04: What are they doing?
10:00
SPEAKER_04: What are they doing?
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, I this is what I mean is that is that is just the fact that so many people did it, you know that it's not like a true innovation.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody behind the scenes in Korea created this, they just bought it.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: That's all they did.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Whereas you look at Elisa Aldridge, for example, who created a refillable lipstick bullet that for the first time ever in beauty history, every single component in the lipstick.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: No plastic.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Sorry?
10:29
SPEAKER_01: There's no plastic out there.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: There's no plastic, it's completely um circular.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: You can recycle it.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And she was on our show and told us how it took her so long to create this this package.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: She had to go to so many manufacturers and get them to, you know, recreate the wheel, which is incredibly difficult to do.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: So that that's what I mean when I say that it's like as an editor, I can see when there's a true innovation like that because it's you're not seeing it everywhere.
10:59
SPEAKER_04: We we also had on our uh pod Norteara from Air Mexico, who they just like they're totally plastic free.
11:07
SPEAKER_04: And he was saying, um, finding packaging manufacturers to work with that would do everything in metal and paper and all of that was so difficult.
11:16
SPEAKER_04: So you really have to believe in the mission.
11:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, and typically it is those indie brands that are doing the innovation because they're dedicated to it, versus sometimes if you're owned by a conglomerate, it is that churn.
11:33
SPEAKER_04: I often talk about how Beauty Now is addicted to newness in a way, and it feels like in the industry that that's the only way that you can make money by having a launch that you could talk about.
11:45
SPEAKER_04: Um, and I hope that some brands in the future are going to really try to create those hero products that they're gonna be able to talk about again and again and expand on, or maybe improve, do new studies with, like maybe do that rather than just being like, I need the hot new thing, I need a gimmick.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: That's the thing is they want a gimmick, they want to trend, and I'm like, but are your formulas even good?
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what are you doing in that regard?
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, if actually, if you actually launch a good product and that sustains the brand, like no shade.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: Again, we talked about this on your episode.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I loved Fenty down, and I think they kind of got lost in the sauce.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Fenty skin, it was always fun, but it never did anything to really stand out in any capacity.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, this is what you guys did.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is what you want to do now.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so I see these brands wanting to be like they want to be cute, but what are you doing that is interesting?
12:39
SPEAKER_02: Glow Recipe is a brand I also really enjoy a lot.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: I love a lot of their products because there is an element of whimsy and fun and all that.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: But again, what was a need for this?
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Especially when you have brands who they have evergreen reusable eye patches.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: And that actually is a big staple for them.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: I look at does topicals.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes.
12:58
SPEAKER_04: Are they reusable, the topicals?
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: Oh, Bliss just came out with some that like suction onto your face.
13:05
SPEAKER_04: So that's pretty cool.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just like, where's be make a product?
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: I fully agree with you.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: And you know, not to try to promote my own line, kissatbeauty.com, everybody.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh Lapha made, but um, you know, that I really set out with the intention when I created that product to just create one hero product that would be like an instant classic.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because as I've been speaking to retailers, like the conventional thought was when you go into retail like a Sephora or whatever, like you have to have at least a three-piece system.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: You have to have that.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: But when I've been speaking to like leading indie retailers, they're actually getting into and getting behind this idea of launching with just one hero skew that you can really educate people on and get them to understand it and kind of get loyal to it before you just bombard them with, you know, all of these confusing products.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: And as editors, I've said this many times before.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: I like looking at brands, I think it's really smart to just launch with one product because just like you were saying, with editors too and any kind of content creators, we are always chasing newness.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: So if you launch a 20-piece range, like if you were to launch a 20-piece range right now, what are you gonna talk about in three months?
14:22
SPEAKER_00: It your story is already old.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: That was three months ago.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna talk about a year from now?
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Then you're gonna launch three more products, then you've got 23 products, 26 products.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Like it gets really old really fast.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: If you're not, it's like slow your roll, slow your roll.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Get give people a moment to like inhale, digest, you know?
14:41
SPEAKER_02: That's we've talked about before, like the brands that they created and cultivated legacy products.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about Clinique downstairs.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: Clinique is iconic for a lot of different products, whether it's skincare or color, and like it's funny enough, there was it black honey.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: That's existed in the range for forever, but that was that randomly became such a viral success.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, but to your point, you then have new brands launch, and they have to make a presence, be known for a certain thing.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: I think right now the biggest example to me is Remedy, Dr.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Shaw's brand.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: And I I'm good friends with their MPD girl, but I was like, girl, in the last four months, I've gotten seven launches from you guys.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, and you'll get a lot more in the next couple.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: I just think it's just shows the nature of the industry and how the industry has changed, and because it's so hard, it's it's never been easier to start a brand, but it's also so hard to break through, and therefore you have to get uh usually venture capital or you know, some investors on board, and you're gonna have to report to them, and they're like, I don't care about your hero product, like what's next?
15:40
SPEAKER_01: What's what's gonna drive this forward?
15:43
SPEAKER_01: And so they're answering to people other than just their customers, and that's really tough.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: I I feel for brand founders because of that, and that that is why you get this sort of uh onslaught because if you're a Dr.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Shaw and you're in Target, well, you go see the buyer, they don't care about what you launched last year.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: It's what's what can you capitalize on now?
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think that that really has changed a dramatic amount.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: It's answering to investors, precisely it's answering to investors because I can tell you from my own experience, you know, my brand is now a year old, and I kind of like this is one of the things that I've learned that some people would say I I've done wrong, some people would say I've done right, but like my tube of retinoid is 50 grams when most retinol, like almost every retinol in the market in Sephora is 30 mils or 30 grams.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: So mine's almost twice as big.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: But when people are comparing prices, they're just gonna be care comparing like this one to that one.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: They don't realize that with mine, you're actually getting almost twice as much.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Plus, with mine, because it's a pomade or an ointment, you're only using a pea size amount and you melt it into your fingers and then you use it on your skin.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: So, and because it's waterless, it lasts forever.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's like this tube could last you like six months to a year.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: So it's great value for anybody, a customer who's gonna buy it.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: But if I'm sitting there talking to an investor, they want velocity.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And if I'm talking to a retailer, they want that shit to move.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: They want them to be coming back and buying it every 30, 60, 90 days.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: So the influence of just, you know, money makes the world go around, money makes this beauty industry go around, and the speed at which is at which it's happening is a lot of it is investor, five-year payout.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's looking at that trajectory.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they all want that Kylie or whatever it was, the road legacy, and and everybody's just it's a race to to that.
17:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
17:49
SPEAKER_04: So y'all have been beauty editing for a while.
17:54
SPEAKER_04: A while, I can say.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:56
SPEAKER_04: Um do you feel well, we'll get into, you know, a lot of the things that have changed, but do you feel like that whole MA, uh investors, and that whole landscape has really changed the industry over the time you've been doing this?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Beauty's first billionaire, I think it was Anastasia, uh, excuse me, Anastasia Beverly Hills when she sold her brand.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think that made a lot of people sit up and take notice.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: And that was maybe in 2018.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: It was right when we were we started the podcast in 2017, and she was a big get.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: I think we got her maybe the next year.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there were like five people that had hit the billionaire status.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: She was one, Kylie was another, uh, potentially drunk elephant.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, it there was big there was five.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: And then everybody was like, oh, okay.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: And then it really, I think, did change a lot.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: But you know, what you basically Silicon Valley saw the money that was to be made.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, oh, this is like sports, this is like dot-com shit.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's when Glossier was started describing themselves as like a technology company or something like that.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know where that money is coming from, right?
19:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it was just like all these like bros in capital just went, look at this.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And it was the beauty industry.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: And this is what you can do in five years and get your money out.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's when we just started seeing like the beauty industry has just spread like butter and multiplied like flies.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the biggest things that we've seen is that, you know, in the beginning it was like these big kind of department store brands that ruled the roost, right?
19:40
SPEAKER_00: MAC, Estee Lauder, all of that.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: And then we started to see the rise of makeup artist brands and dermatologist brands and aesthetician brands.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, I'm lending my face, my voice, my talent to these other big companies, but I'm the one moving the needle.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get my paycheck.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And so we saw that, and then I think after that it just kept growing.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: It was like, I'm a cosmetic chemist, I'm the one making these products.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm making your next bestseller.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna get my paycheck.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: And then you have a beauty editor.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: You have I'm throwing myself in here.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm a beauty editor, and I'm like, I've tried, I've seen and swatched it all.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: I know what's good.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna launch my product.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: And so we've really seen that from every single angle now.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And models, right, starting their brand, influencers are like, I'm moving, I'm moving the product, I'm gonna launch a brand.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's interesting that we're starting to see this year is these industry insiders who are now they want their piece of the pie.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: So now we're seeing people who don't necessarily have like a big name, but a proven track record.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: But a proven track record, right?
20:57
SPEAKER_00: So, like an example would be Melanie Bender, who was the CEO of uh Road.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: She was at Merit, and then she was or First and then Rhodes.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: First and then Rhodes.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: And so then she's like, I'm gonna make a player.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: She has lore now, the fragrance brand.
21:13
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay, yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Right?
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Or like Sarah Creel, who was with Victoria Beckham.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: I know how to do this.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Like this is she's the name, but I'm the worker be.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do this, and we're seeing that more now, too.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: So, like the latest ones, there's a brand called Feel Beauty that just launched at Sephora, F-E-L, and her name is Jamie Holmes, and she came up with like Ule Henrickson.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: She was the mastermind behind the banana bright line and like the Too Faced.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: So she's now launched this comfort beauty line, like really cute.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, kind of like it has lips on it, this like kissable thing.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: And then there's another one, carte blanche, that just launched with Jerry Hirsch.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Jerry Hirsch from Say Beauty.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: So it's like these people are now coming up, they're like.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't need to have this label or this position.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: I've seen all the mechanics at work, and now I'm coming to get my paycheck.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: It's interesting because I think you just described a specific spectrum where I always bitch about this on the podcast and in real life, because I'm a hater.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Tech bros who have no business, they just see a cash grab and they're like, Let me launch a brand that already exists.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: It's very redundant, white noise.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: But then you have a different perspective.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: The other end of that is these people who are behind the scenes.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: I think Sarah Creel's a really good example.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: Because I think she found a very specific niche that she fit in that no one was really occupying, and that was what did so well for her.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: So there's a means of doing it with intention and really good strategy and actually developing a good product or a good range.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: That um the tech the tech people they don't know about.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally agree.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think the the MAs to your initial question is like that was a rare story back in the day.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: We had Bobby Brown, we had Paula from Paula's Choice, who had got like individuals that had unlocked their like just Dermalogica founder as well, who had had their business for like 20 years and then they sold it, or 10 years and then they sold it.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: But now the timelines are shortened.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: And what I find really interesting, and Carlene and I have been talking about it a lot, is these founders that were sort of started in 2018 with a brand.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Let's say Nancy Twine from Brio Geo.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, she's back with a second act already.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And and uh there's plenty of sack second acts.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: Um uh founder of Wendy Zomner from Urban Decay has Cali Ray, the Nancy Twine has the two hair care lines, and Carlene was like, I don't get it.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe like, or I can't remember how you phrased it, but you were like, Why not ride off into the sunset?
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why why are you coming back?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: But Carissa James from R Glass now has outside in beauty, nature of things, they are all back from what's the thing.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was and I was like, well, the answer is they gave away too much of their company probably when they were getting the investors, and they probably didn't get maybe as big a part of the pie as they maybe initially thought.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: So they're back to do it again.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: They've learned all their lessons, and they're gonna cash out for more next time.
24:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, possibly.
24:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think some of these people just like doing this, like doing this.
24:06
SPEAKER_04: Like I feel like maybe a Bobby Brown, but yeah, no, she doesn't know how to slow down for sure.
24:10
SPEAKER_04: She's like a serial entrepreneur, but to your point, yeah.
24:14
SPEAKER_04: It's like when you take the investment to accelerate your brand to get to that point.
24:19
SPEAKER_04: Uh I don't I don't know if people know, but it's like you're you're giving away a piece of that final payout.
24:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:25
SPEAKER_04: So when people hear like, oh, Road was bought for a billion dollars, Haley Bieber's not a billionaire.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_04: Um, that does not all go to her.
24:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, she has two co-founders too, and whatever kind of outside investment they had.
24:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, another thing that I think is interesting about what you were talking about was we often bring up that a lot of these industry operators, when they start a line or something, they get a celebrity face and they bring them in.
24:51
SPEAKER_04: And really it's the person with the know-how behind the scenes pulling the levers.
24:56
SPEAKER_04: So I think it's interesting now that those people who are the lever pullers are also the faces.
25:01
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
25:01
SPEAKER_04: Uh, because at this point, you know, there have been so many celebrity beauty bland brands that have flopped.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: Beauty blands now, trademark.
25:10
SPEAKER_04: Beauty blands.
25:12
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, I don't know.
25:15
SPEAKER_04: I think we've seen a slowdown for celebrity beauty brands.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: I know a big one launching this month, everybody.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: I can't say.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: But it's a big, big A-lister who's getting in the game and kind of makes sense.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when is this launching, anyways?
25:32
SPEAKER_01: October 14th.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: I can't say yet.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: I can't say yet, but uh I think it'll do well.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: Can we have a hint?
25:40
SPEAKER_01: I can't, I can't say.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: I bet I had to sign a frickin' embargo.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: This is some of the things.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, I had to sign a what is it called?
25:47
SPEAKER_01: Embargo.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: So unfortunately I can't.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: But I'll let you know maybe after.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: I think the move is now, this is what's so fascinating to me because again, I've just I've been an editor and kind of analyzing the industry from the outside.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm in it, so I see things from such a different perspective as a brand founder.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And like people are saying to me, like, why don't you get like a celebrity face or an influencer and just give them equity?
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, this is this is the move now, right?
26:15
SPEAKER_00: That and you see it with like Kendall Jenner keeps getting attached to things.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know for sure that she has any equity in.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: They're your influencers.
26:30
SPEAKER_04: I I thought we were gonna be the investors.
26:32
SPEAKER_04: I was like, you're you're bucking up the wrong tree here.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: No, you can be the face and she can guys.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: It's right there for the tanking.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah, so it's it's fascinating.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: I love it all though.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: It's like a big game of traders.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, I love it.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the MA part, which by the way, for people mergers and acquisitions, that's what it means.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, the to your point, you're talking about how quick that timeline's changed.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: Where it used to be 20 years building a brand and like really establishing yourself, and now it's like a game of how quick.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: And I think the face of that right now is Ben Bennett at the center.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: Who did Naturium, Soltaire, Fleur, Prequel.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: And he's kind of the face of build these brands.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: And his story the way he's the strategy behind it is really interesting because most of the times it's failed brands or failing brands that he buys up, attaches a face to, and that's the story.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: It's like a formula, yeah.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: And it's done so well for him.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: But he's Well, that's probably I mean, it's an interesting strategy because it it's a story, but it's also it's also a strategy, right?
27:36
SPEAKER_00: Because if they're not, if they're failing in some way, then that they're they have a low value.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that I've learned too, is like that's why you can't get investors too early, which is why I'm like stuck in my little shoe sh, you know, um, what do you call it?
27:50
SPEAKER_00: Shoe string, no.
27:52
SPEAKER_04: Shoe string budget.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm on a shoestring budget.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm bootstrapping.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm on a bootstrap, right?
27:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm on a bootstrap budget.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: But it's like it's a catch 22 because I could probably go out there and get investors right now, but because my company doesn't have a high valuation, they're gonna charge me more and I'm gonna give away more equity.
28:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: So you want to bootstrap for as long as you can before you take any investment.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: But then it's like the cart and the horse.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: You need money to make money, right?
28:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's a very um, it's a very tricky game, and that's why some of these players know how to play it well and they will play it again and again, right?
28:32
SPEAKER_04: Going back to yeah, things that have changed over time, I mean, looking back, I feel like y'all have probably you're trying so so much stuff every single day.
28:46
SPEAKER_04: Are there any like holy grail products that you feel like not enough people know about?
28:52
SPEAKER_04: Like things that you're gonna reach for over the years that never fail you.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Still the test of time.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we started our podcast, Breaking Beauty Talking.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: We wanted to it to be almost like a catalog where people could come and you know learn about the bestseller from this brand.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: And we've kind of pivoted away from that now.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: We review a lot of products.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: So we in the beginning, yeah, what she what she means to say, I think, is in the beginning we only interviewed founders nine years ago.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: So we would do like brand stories and it we were a monthly, and so we would zero in and be like, what's the bestseller from Paula's Choice?
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that one I don't even know what it was, the hero product.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: And it was like we would do the backstory behind that product.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: So it was like we're gonna build this whole encyclopedia so people know just like what are the best products in the world that have stood the test of time, and then we and as an editor, that is what um excites me, is what endures.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: It's maybe not the most exciting to like to other people because we are in this era of like you know, the show and tell on social media, but like definitely a biologic recherche.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is legendary, it has so much lore, it has stood the test of time.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: They call it Jesus in a bottle for a reason.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: It makes your skin glow, it smells, it is it's very French, you know.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was like the secret to how all the French women looked as good as they did.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, other products that have stood the test of time for me.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I think Dermologica Microfoliant, I still think it is one of the best gentle everyday exfoliants.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a bajillion of them out there now, and I still use it and love it.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, what else?
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love the uh Bioderma Mycellar Cleanser.
30:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like classic.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I really get down with that product.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it will like I just think because I have rosacea and sensitive skin, you have rosacea too, right?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if you find this, but I find that even washing my face with water sometimes, my face is just red straight up right after that.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I just think this water is like not doing me a favor.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: I whatever's in it, right?
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Minerals, the temperature.
31:03
SPEAKER_04: Water itself can be an irritant, right?
31:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
31:06
SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter like where the tap is or whatever.
31:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's like exactly.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: And like back in the day, they they used to say like celebrities would wash their face in Evian water, and I was like, you know, maybe there's something to that.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, but with the with the Meissler, so it's like you're it's so for anyone who doesn't know, it's a no-rinse cleanser, right?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: And they used to use it backstage at Fashion Week in in Paris, and that makeup artists used to do that for quick changes, and that's how it got popular.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: But like I listened to a whole podcast about that product because there's some people people who are like concerned about that it what does it leave on your skin, you know?
31:43
SPEAKER_00: But I was listening to it and like this is more your domain than mine, but it's about the my cells and how they work, like the magnet or the size of the molecules or something like that, where it's like, no, it takes it removes the makeup and stuff, but then it doesn't leave anything behind.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: There's something about the actual chemistry that it is not leaving, there's no like soap or residue being left on your skin.
32:07
SPEAKER_04: Like it you use it with a pad because it like attaches to it basically when you're wiping it across your skin.
32:14
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: So it's truly not, and and it's all dermatologically tested, and it actually improves the quality of your skin after you've used it.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: So that's like that's a ride or die for me.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Those are classic.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: A newer favorite for mine that it's like I I've emptied this, it's a French pharmacy brand called Mimitique, and they have skin recovery cream is the name of the product, and it is has roots in French pharmacy, but it's also updated with biomimetic technology, and I just absolutely love it.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: My skin loves it.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: I think it has the legs to be a brand that we're gonna be talking about in 20 years, and it really did stand out to me because of the chemistry and how it works on the skin.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: And I just love that French philosophy that's being like updated now.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, so in terms of like what I think is what I've been reaching for recently, and that I think we can be talking about for a while.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then the say glowy super gel.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: You you do you know that one?
33:09
SPEAKER_02: I haven't used it.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: I haven't used that.
33:11
unknown: Oh my god.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: It's like I I talk about it all the time.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, they should really um but it's like it they have a bronze shade and they have a highlighter shade, like a whitish one, a goldish one, they have a rose gold, whatever.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: And it really to me just launched that whole like jelly bronzer highlight trend.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: And so many people have tried to dupe it, but it's just the actual perfect consistency where it's not too shirmery, your face is a guaranteed glow, it's like Shafskas.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: The the Chanel Le Beige uh water fresh complexion tint is another one.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I love that.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: People try to dupe, it is on dupeable if for it, you know.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't I'm sure I'm sure Chanel isn't loving that I'm using the word dupe, but it's true people are trying to imitate it.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's stands alone.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: It stands alone, you know, it's worth the money, you know, when you're talking about these things that are very expensive.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think a lot of K Beauty uh brands that like Sol Wasu has stood the test of time as well.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Their whole ginseng range, I think, is phenomenal.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Um have you guys tried their new cushion UV cushion?
34:19
SPEAKER_04: No, no, but it's really good.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: It's really good.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my only thing about it is that I think it does leave a bit of a white cast.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but it but it is like the glow that you get and it just gives this cooling sensation.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: So when you put it on, you just want to keep putting it on.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: It's so it's good.
34:39
SPEAKER_04: That's important for an SPF product because you have to put on a lot.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: My one concern with the cushion is like how much are you getting on the picture?
34:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean I think it's better for sandwiching your SPF.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think the good thing about it is I actually did put it on over makeup midday and it it I found it kind of like refreshed my skin, and maybe like maybe I'm not gonna put it on over every single spot, but like I do think it's really hard to refresh sunscreen into the middle of the day over top of makeup.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: So it is a nice reapplication, maybe it's a nice thing.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: What's one brand that didn't get its like due respect or it's time to shine that you really wish had its justice?
35:22
SPEAKER_02: It's a good question.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Great question.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: I feel like over the years you've been doing this, you've probably seen it.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, many have had to um shudder, and it's a really good question.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was a little bit sad to see good light go away this year.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: I think that was phenomenal.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: I really liked that milky toner.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: And I also felt that that was launched quite a bit before a lot of the other brands.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And so I that always does kind of make me sad because what like we've already talked about at or at length is like I just hate gobby cats and I really have so much respect for true innovators, and and I just really liked him.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: So I just felt sad about that one.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Um good at it, also apparently.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: It's with uh I saw it this weekend.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: It's the brand is Sunsetting, but the product is until it's it's sold out, it's available.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Um there's a there's a brand called I think it's called Skin Savvy, and it used to go by JB's gin guru.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and she is the facialist to um Oprah, and she's Canadian, and she's based in Quebec, and she has a very niche line, and she's like an she's an aesthetician.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she's actually quite knowledgeable.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Like she we interviewed her way back in the day, and she helped develop what was the machine I don't remember.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: It was like some like aesthetics facial machine.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, she really knows her stuff.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: She's a bit we can cut this.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: This is just a law.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Too random cut.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
37:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think now, yeah, especially recently, some of the like founder-led, which I kind of hate that term, but it's like it's somebody who's not necessarily a celeb.
37:19
SPEAKER_04: Like those brands when they shudder that like hurts a little bit as like I don't know, somebody who's kind of in the industry, like when Ami Collet.
37:28
SPEAKER_04: Yes, oh yeah.
37:29
SPEAKER_04: Perfect example.
37:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was devastating for a lot of people.
37:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, they made really good products, but also similar to good, like kind of what the brand stood for was something really different.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that era is not what it once was.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Like we, you know, again, because we report on this so much, there was there was a time when it was just like it was very new and rising, where it was about who is the founder founder, what are their ethics, what did they stand for?
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Sharon Shooter.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Who are they represent?
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Sharon Shooter from Uma again, R I P.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: Rest in Peace, yes.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, rest in peace.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Um the brand of her.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: She passed off she passed away.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure about some of her brands, they might still be tied up in some legal somebody bought them, changed hands a few times.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not really sure.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: But remember Oma almost took down and then it got re Yeah, she was back in the mix, and I'm not really sure.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know a huge, huge void and loss in the industry because she stood for on our show, and everything she was saying, I was like, Hang on, when are you running for president?
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I will follow you into the streets.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Like she was just incredible, such a force.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: So, um, but yeah, that that that moment when I just feel that beauty connected so many people in a way that was so much deeper than just the product that you're putting on the face on your face.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: And and I've been thinking about this lately, is just like it is interesting how when politics change it does have ripple effects.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Where I used to kind of think that was bullshit, like in fashion, when they'd be like, Oh, hemlines are high.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: This is how it's happening in politics, and how you know the lipstick and deck index and all of that, but it's like maybe I'm just getting older now, but I actually kind of see it.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I can now see that things are changing based on what is in the air.
39:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
39:24
SPEAKER_04: I think also what's telling is like even the two examples that we brought up of those small brands, they failed after getting into huge retailers.
39:34
SPEAKER_04: Like you have that big coup of being able to be scaling up.
39:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, scaling up, and then that's probably the difficulty.
39:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
39:44
SPEAKER_04: That's actually what what sabotages you.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: And and then there's some brands that you're not so surprised they go away.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Gwen Gwen Stefani's brand.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: Addison Ray's brands.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Pardon me?
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Addison Ray's, yeah.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: I really love it.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: I had high hopes for that, but yeah.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, oh yeah, I read that read the headline Quietly Closes.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not so.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Always quiet.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Not with the same boot.
40:08
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so what was your take on Give Beauty?
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, I just I just worry about I give Gwen is just she's pivoted.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Let's say she has.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: She has very much pivoted.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Do your thing, girl.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: But um, it's I I we've interviewed her back in the day when she had the hair, like all of her fragrances and all of that.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, just she had such a beauty look, you know, the red lips, uh, the hair, everything.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I just feel like listen, I'm always surprised when a celebrity beauty brand is a hit.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm always sitting there going, really?
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Really?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: This is good another one, oh, this person now?
40:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is not gonna go.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like I'm also surprised by who decides to launch a brand.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: Brad Pitt launching a brand, no one asked for.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no one needed.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Where did what is what is happening with that?
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: But I I'm just I I'm skeptical, and then I'm like, oh no, it's sold out for Alex Earl's line, sold out in like four days, and I'm like, okay, well, that I think it's different when it's an influencer versus somebody who's like famous through traditional media or something.
41:13
SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't know why my mind always goes back to Sierra and this line on emission that was based fully around vitamin C.
41:22
SPEAKER_04: I was like, okay, not only was the line ill-conceived, but it definitely looked like it was an industry operator that then found her to be the face.
41:30
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, this is not some somebody that we've typically thought of as like a skincare person.
41:35
SPEAKER_04: She's definitely known for music, dancing, all of that.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, or Carmen Electra.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget the day that I had to do a Zoom call and Carmen Electra was uh announcing or introducing her new skincare line, which I'm pretty sure is no longer.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Paris Hilton.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: She has a second one.
41:51
SPEAKER_04: What?
41:51
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
41:52
SPEAKER_04: That one closed.
41:54
SPEAKER_04: Now she has a different one.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: And Paris Hilton's on her second or third skincare band, too.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: I root for Paris Hilton, though.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Even though I've never been on their PR list, never received the product.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't believe she knows anything about skincare.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: But just in general, I'm like, I I like Paris Hilton now.
42:10
SPEAKER_04: Apparently, her fragrance line is like a cash cap.
42:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, gangbusters for sure.
42:16
SPEAKER_04: That's surprising.
42:17
SPEAKER_04: Even um, I think Coti still owns the license to like the Britney Spears fragrances.
42:22
SPEAKER_04: And they keep coming out with more of them.
42:25
SPEAKER_04: She's not even involved in any way.
42:27
SPEAKER_04: She's not ads, but she's probably collecting a check.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think back to Britney, all of her fragrances did really well.
42:33
SPEAKER_02: Beyonce, when she dipped her toes into fragrance, did really, really well.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: Paris Hilton.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, why are celebrities launching skincare?
42:39
SPEAKER_02: Go back to fragrance.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: Michelle Pfeiffer.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: With Henry Rose.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Gaggy.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: I know.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: It's a good, it's a good line.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: And I've and I've said this before as well, but like the beauty of fragrance is that you can have an infinite amount of fragrance, right?
42:56
SPEAKER_00: Like everybody, it's like fashion or like clothes.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Like everybody always wants something different.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: Whereas skincare, it's like, we're doing too much.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, why do we need 55 hyaluronic acid serums?
43:10
SPEAKER_00: We don't have enough vanilla perfumes though.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, because hers is gonna have a bit of leather and yours is gonna have a plastic accord.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Like every it's gonna be its own plastic.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: An accord.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: A plastic accord, loving that.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Just like half of my body.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Probably not trademarked.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: You can probably trademark.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: No, but to your point, fragrance can be a really unique avenue, and celebrities aren't approaching that anymore.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: Stand up skincare.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: We don't need to be here.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
43:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she has much.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Ariana?
43:54
SPEAKER_04: Ariana, yeah.
43:55
SPEAKER_04: I've only smelled one of the Orabella fragrances and it smells like pickles.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have done it right.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Was it supposed to smell like pickle or no?
44:02
SPEAKER_04: I don't think so, but the funny thing was the sample that I got was like a mini and it was kind of shaped like a pickle because it's oblong.
44:10
SPEAKER_04: And I I love pickles.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: So you weren't mad at it.
44:14
SPEAKER_04: So I was kind of not mad at it.
44:15
SPEAKER_04: But I was like, I don't know if I want to go around smelling like this.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the other thing is like these more like very niche, kind of off fragrances, those are doing really well.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: Wasn't that the brand Ulta Sniff?
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: So Sniff is one of them.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think that this kind of ties into how you know social media is impacting marketing because the reality is the more outrageous it is, the more it stands out.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: Like when people um, you know, launch something that smells like the nail salon, which Sniff just did, well, that's gonna get a lot of press pickup.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're talking about it right now.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: It's probably killing me.
44:49
SPEAKER_04: Well, I don't go to the nail salon often, but I remember sitting there with my sister while she got her acrylics done.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're the target person that they would like to see.
44:59
SPEAKER_04: Cut that out, the other one.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: Keep that.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
45:03
SPEAKER_04: But but um yeah, I was like, this is probably killing me, or like, you know, I brought this up uh on the pod before, but Demeter fragrances have one called Funeral Home.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking that too.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Sniff thinks are out here doing something so cool.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: Demeter was first, they they really were, and um yeah, I'm the one brand celebrity that I am excited about, by the way, just going back to that for a second, is Lindsay Loan.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: She's coming out with a line.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Lena?
45:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: Excited?
45:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: Because I just think she is she is nostalgia, and that sells.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And I do think that she will have an interesting story to tell about coming up in Hollywood, and I think she's just iconic.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm interested in that story.
45:54
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
45:56
SPEAKER_04: She's a good comeback story today because she's somebody that like you could have seen it going one way, and then she kind of like turned it around and she's slowly coming back.
46:05
SPEAKER_04: She's never looked better.
46:07
SPEAKER_04: But this is also somebody who went through a whole like plastic surgery thing where everybody was like, What did she have done?
46:12
SPEAKER_04: And then they found out who the doctor was.
46:14
SPEAKER_04: And I'm a little bit tired of this like narrative of like, well, she looks great, so why wouldn't I buy her product?
46:21
SPEAKER_04: Right.
46:21
SPEAKER_04: Like, that product is not what did that.
46:23
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I'm with you.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Money is the best moisturizer, that is we know.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: That is why I wouldn't buy her skincare because that's not what it made her skin look like that, and she had one million freckles, and there's no topical that got rid of it.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: But this is tail as old as time.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: You think Jennifer Aniston was using Aveno?
46:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, sorry.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:45
unknown: Yeah.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: I will say there I'm sure she had to technically on that day on the shoot.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
46:51
SPEAKER_04: There are some brand ambassadors that are like so involved, even with like the direction of the brand.
46:58
SPEAKER_04: Like, um, I'm thinking about like Carrie Washington with Neutrogena.
47:02
SPEAKER_04: Like, they consult her behind the scenes for a lot of stuff.
47:05
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, I learned this through working with them, but it's like they're like long time people like Jen Garner.
47:12
SPEAKER_04: It's like they have some say in things versus like, yeah, I don't know.
47:18
SPEAKER_04: I don't think Jennifer Aniston really used to vino.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: No, no, but she looks great.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Speaking of Jennifer Aniston and her having like little to V, we're going through all the celebrities and categories.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: What's the one uh area of personal care, or just in any category that you feel is the next area celebrities are gonna be tapping into?
47:35
SPEAKER_02: Because also they got into alcohol recently.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: What's the next one?
47:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll tell sorry, go ahead.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say on my end, I gotta ask this at a panel.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, and the question was what's like the next the category we're talking about the skinification of everything.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: What's the next category to be skinified?
47:51
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, it's oral care.
47:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's the chemist we're talking about that.
47:55
SPEAKER_02: And I the example I brought up was also DJ Khaled has a or he's part owner of a toothpaste company.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:01
SPEAKER_02: Are Resi.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: And the whole thing is it's gold-infused toothpaste.
48:05
SPEAKER_02: So very on-brand.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like what's the next niche for celebrities to I mean, I think based on the conversations we've been having, I'll tell you, I tell you what probably won't happen, but should happen, is that they should start like partnering with plastic surgeons on clinics.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, Nick Axelrod open Contra Posto.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, he has he comes from Necessaire and Glossier.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: And Glossier.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: And Contraposto is in Beverly Hills, I think, or Melrose or Santa Monica or somewhere anyway, in LA.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, gorgeous, gorgeous med spa, and he just launched fragrances, which are next level chef's kiss.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: His husband is an I believe RN and he's the injector.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: He's the main injector there.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: And then Amy Chang of you know, content creator, Mirror Mirror Podcast, just opened Yeah, a med spa.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Just opened a med spa.
48:59
SPEAKER_04: I have a bone to pick with her.
49:01
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
49:02
SPEAKER_04: So shortly before this was announced, she put out a video saying, Oh, if I'm going to an injector or an aesthetic provider, I don't want somebody who does literally anything else in their practice.
49:14
SPEAKER_04: I want somebody who does a lot of reps.
49:17
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
49:18
SPEAKER_04: Me, a cosmetic dermatologist, I'm like, I do lasers, injectables, surgery, I do medderm, and a lot of us have very comprehensive practices.
49:27
SPEAKER_04: And everything that we do is informed by other stuff too.
49:32
SPEAKER_04: So put that out there and then have a bunch of nurse injectors like it and plastic surgeons, and then to turn around and be like, Well, come to my med spa.
49:41
SPEAKER_04: Miss Girl, what do you know?
49:46
SPEAKER_04: Sorry to call you out like that, but Yeah.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean You guys should pod swap.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: Talk about it.
49:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we should.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: You should.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Mirror, mirror.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Putting up the mirror.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I just feel like in the spirit of transparency with celebrities, like, why don't they just partner with their plastic surgeon and like open clinics?
50:03
SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, it's not gonna happen, but that would actually make more sense.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I think you've seen celebrity spokespeople talk about their partnerships with Botox and other Allargan products and whatnot.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it's a natural next step.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: And I also I do think the med spa world, speaking of like what's coming next, it is it is about to, I think, be very competitive in a different way than we've seen.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: I saw Allure just announced in 2027 and 2028, they're gonna start including med spas in their best of beauty.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: So there will be injectors and I don't know exactly all of the categories, but I think that's brilliant because I think as editors, the number of people and you, y'all, like the number of people who come to us and ask where should I go to do this or go to do that, and to have like a lower a lower back in the day, they had their directory, yeah, which was phenomenal.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's an updated version of that without it being called a directory, and I do think that that is fascinating.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: And you may see some med spas needing some A-list talent to they could go to that and say invest and then well, we're starting to see like more branded med spas come back, like the skin spirits of the world and and what was the other one?
51:16
SPEAKER_00: Inject, and that where it's just like a little bit more branded and like easy to understand.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: They offer a little more like glossy.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: What's it called?
51:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh when McDonald's franchised.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: Just yeah, just like a little bit.
51:31
SPEAKER_04: You could walk in and get Botox.
51:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
51:33
SPEAKER_04: Um, but what I will say, as I've heard from people who come to me, uh you may not be getting as good a value as you think you are at some of these places.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Skimping on the on the juice files or whatever.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little bit.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: Swattered down.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
51:51
SPEAKER_04: Allegedly.
51:52
SPEAKER_04: I wanted to ask you why you made the switch from doing your like typical magazine work to going into podcasting when you did.
52:02
SPEAKER_04: Because, like, in my mind, y'all were some of the first to do it in like the beauty space.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, it definitely took a minute for people to understand why we were doing it because they're like, beauty, that's so visual.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: And at the time we joked, we were like, two beauty editors with a face for radio.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: So we're like, perfect.
52:20
SPEAKER_01: We will we're too old to start a YouTube, so we'll do audio.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: But look at us now.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: We we are under all these lights in spite of ourselves.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, really, we as editors, we got the up close and personal, the front lines of so many brand stories and and things like that.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: And then as Carlene always says, you would have news pages in the magazine where you would come and you would like write a little blurb about the about the new thing, you know.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: And it was just a way the podcast for these stories to breathe.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: And we knew that there was a lot of beauty lovers out there.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: It was a time when a lot of new brands were launching a very exciting founders who had a lot to say or had a point of view, and we wanted to share that.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: And we just they were very transferable skills from our magazine days to um to what we're doing today.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: And then over time, we were like, oh, people are coming for the content to hear the Brown founders, but they also want to hear from us.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: So stepping into that was uh was a new thing, and so now some of our more popular episodes are where we're sort of where we're reviewing products, which we call like the hashtag damn good episodes.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: We do those like once a month where we're um surveying the landscape, talking about what we think sort of stands out, makes the cut and worth the money, worth the spend.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: And you know, with beauty, there's never a shortage of stuff to talk about.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: And here we are over we're almost 10 years doing it.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: So and we're not stopping anytime soon.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: You can still like the Rolodex of references you guys have is knowing like, well, this person was at these companies and this is their history, and that's where this like you guys really have been doing this for so long and are so well versed in every aspect from like the behind the scenes to what's on the shelf that we as consumers see.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we like to say that we know a little bit about a lot of things, whereas like you know a lot of things about I mean, you guys are true.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: You're the so social media, so you do know a lot of things about, but generally the experts we interview are like specialized in their field, and we kind of know a little bit about a lot, but we always say, like, we're not the true expert, we're not gonna tell you like you have eczema, therefore you need to use this.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: We would never say that.
54:29
SPEAKER_02: Period.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: And you're correct in not we defer staying in our lane.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: So we defer to uh the experts.
54:39
SPEAKER_04: Is the podcast the main gig for the two of you now?
54:41
SPEAKER_04: Or are you still writing?
54:43
SPEAKER_04: Is there anywhere where we could read your writing?
54:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't do quite as much writing as I once did, but um Carleen.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, we have a substack.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: Carlene has a substack as well.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: It's on hiatus, but um yes.
55:00
SPEAKER_04: Ooh, I love that name.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Um I still I do a lot of broadcast television too.
55:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it it's it's just the landscape of media.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: You have to kind of have a mixed bag and just always keep evolving, and that is what we have tried to do.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: And even, you know, with our podcast, we evolved from founder stories to, you know, we started out very low and slow, and now we're a weekly, and we're, you know, it is just it takes a lot of time to stay on top of a weekly show, and uh, we're very proud of that and try to keep the caliber at a certain level, and we get to have the best conversations.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, getting an hour of your y'all's time is so like I still am floored by that because in our magazine days, like your interviews were short and sweet, and you had so having the space to breathe in these conversations is so nice, and um, yeah, it's been it's been fantastic.
55:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean for us, we used to just yap over drinks and they were like, let's do it on camera before monetize this.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, with your with your hair and your skin, like you may as well put it on camera.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: You you all do have faces for camera.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I I work on the podcast probably like two-thirds of my time, and then the other third on Cassette Beauty.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: Nice, yeah.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: Which, yeah, it's it's exciting.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: Carleen just won an uh an Oprah Award.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: She has only had her product for a year.
56:23
SPEAKER_01: Let me let me be your cheerleader here.
56:25
SPEAKER_01: She just won an Oprah Award.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Oprah Daily.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Best retinoid of 2026.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: Which if you're watching on YouTube, we'll have the product linked down below.
56:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's been really exciting.
56:36
SPEAKER_00: And we won a Beauty Disruptor Award in Canada from the biggest national newspaper there, the kit at Toronto Star.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: So it's all happening.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: It's the other sea beauty.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys.
56:50
SPEAKER_04: Great.
56:51
SPEAKER_04: So um where where can our listeners find you and your podcast and your social media presence?
56:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's at Breaking Beauty Podcast on TikTok.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: By the way, we filmed a very funny TikTok with these wonderful hosts.
57:06
SPEAKER_01: You'll have to go check that out.
57:07
SPEAKER_01: And we're also on YouTube at Breaking Beauty Podcast, and that's our handle across all socials, and we have a substack.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: And um I can't wait to have y'all along on the journey.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm also at at Carlene Higgins on my personal Instagram and at Kazat Beauty on Instagram.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: And at Jill Duncan.
57:28
SPEAKER_00: At Jildone Beauty.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: Jill Dun Beauty.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys so much.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: This has been so fun.
57:33
SPEAKER_00: Of course, thank you guys.
57:35
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
57:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we're gonna link everything down below.
57:39
SPEAKER_04: Um if you made it this far, you owe us a comment or a thumbs up or a hype or a five-star review or whatever it is, wherever you happen to be listening.
57:49
SPEAKER_04: And uh subscribe.
57:50
SPEAKER_04: Get us in your podcast feed regularly.
57:53
SPEAKER_04: You don't want to miss this, right?
57:55
SPEAKER_00: Definitely not.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: And don't forget the soul A SPF hats, because I mean we have the founder right here.
58:03
SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah, that's a that's another conversation coming soon.
58:08
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
58:10
SPEAKER_04: Bye.