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Why Are So Many People Secretly Curly: Part 2: Office Edition · We Are Spiraling

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is Priya Anand and we are spiraling.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: In this show, we talk about curly hair to learn more about our culture.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: From our personal identity to how the world sees us.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Across corporate America, there is an unwritten dress code.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere you go, there are secret curlies.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: You might not realize it, but that's only because they haven't let you in on the secret.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you start looking, you'll notice that straight hair is dominant and nearly universal as you climb the leadership ranks.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In our second episode, I reported out why and how so many people have felt compelled to straighten their hair or cut it so short that you can't spot their natural texture in an attempt to look professional.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: That episode is called Why Are So Many People Secretly Curly?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can find it in our feed.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I spent more than a decade reporting on Silicon Valley for places like Bloomberg and Buzzfeed covering Amazon, Uber.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Name a big tech company, and I've probably reported on what's actually going on inside there.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this question just never left me.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Newsrooms, by the way, are full of secret curlies, especially TV newsrooms.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why does almost every anchor have basically the same hair?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to revisit this with a part two about work because so many people have reached out since episode number two to tell me that they are also secretly curly and their stories really stuck with me and I wanted to share them with you.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: One woman explained that her manager at Coles told her she couldn't come into the store with her natural hair.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Another told me that her career counselor in college said she would not get a job unless she did straightening treatments.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: College professors have also told women they need to straighten their hair for the office.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: To understand how this whole perception took root that curly hair is not professional, where did the myth even come from?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I interviewed Dr.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch Wilson.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's a professor emeritus at DePaul University.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: She studied race, perceived attractiveness, cross-race relationships, and women's issues.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: She told me that she used to tell her students that they had to straighten their hair to be taken seriously and get jobs.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she said that she regrets that she had that perspective at one point, and she's so grateful her students didn't listen to her and proved her wrong.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So even someone who has studied these issues and knows the origins was perpetuating this myth inadvertently without thinking about it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, she has said that she regrets that and she doesn't spout this myth anymore herself.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: None of this is a coincidence, by the way.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just like how it's not a coincidence that a disproportionate number of CEOs are white men over six feet tall.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I found a stat that indicates that about 14.5% of all men in the US are six feet or taller.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: But among Fortune 500 CEOs, that number is 58% reportedly.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that just tells you none of these things are coincidences.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And for so many people, this myth around curly hair and its perceptions sank in so early.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that leads a cycle to self-perpetuate.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: More people see only one kind of look represented in certain settings, and they assume it's the look we should all have.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I first became attuned to this pattern in middle school when other girls around me began straightening their hair regularly, and this continued in high school.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they told me that I should straighten my hair too, but I never really did very often.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm still not sure how I didn't succumb to the pressure.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think the answer is largely in part because, you know, have you ever tried to hold a straightener up to your head for that long?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really makes your arm quite tired.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It takes hours, even if you're strong.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And getting that close to your head does mean risking forehead burns.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: In college, I watched as other women in dorms would put themselves through the same ritual of panini pressing their hair before job interviews.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to school in Washington, DC, where nearly every woman in politics had smooth, straight strands.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Stylists have told me that my theory is true, by the way.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Their clients have told them that they need to straighten their hair more regularly because they're getting promoted into leadership roles and need to look a certain way at board meetings and conferences.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: This perception that curly hair is not professional, of course, has roots in colonialism, as we explored in episode two.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: When the British were taking over the world, they wanted people who looked like them to be installed at this leadership in every place.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: But this perpetuated the idea that you were uncivilized or lesser if you had more textured hair.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's unsurprising and yet also an unfortunate origin story that still continues to influence how we see ourselves and how the world sees us.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: But here's something worth considering both Queen Elizabeth I and the second wore their hair with curls.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Queen Elizabeth II reportedly used rollers.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look up portraits of Queen Elizabeth I, she actually also clearly had curls.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So somewhere along the way, this bizarre idea started poisoning our minds, and it continues to have a stronghold.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Former head of the Democratic National Committee representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz, she came on We Are Spiraling for episode three, and she revealed that she's been pressured throughout her career to straighten her hair.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle Obama also talked about this in her book, The Look, that came out last fall.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she said she kept her hair straight because it would have been a public distraction if she didn't.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And she cared more that healthcare laws got passed.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: We also interviewed Annie Corizen, who's a recurring actor on Seinfeld, and she told me that she always wore a wig with straight hair to auditions for lawyer, judge, or professor roles.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: She would never walk in and try to get one of those parts with curly hair.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is why there are secret curlies everywhere in every industry.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: You just don't know until you're actually in on the secret.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're secretly curly, I hope this show helps you feel like you don't need to keep it a secret anymore.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you wish to straighten your hair, amazing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you wish to go the other direction, it should be your choice.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me your story.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Priya at WeArtSpiraling.com.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And one request, please follow us and subscribe in your podcasting app and leave a review if you love the show.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're still a new show, and this helps other people find us too.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it really means a lot to me.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at WeAreSpiraling.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this show is engineered by Citizens of Sound and hosted by Myura, my upcoming haircolon that launches this fall.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can sign up for the wait list at MyuraBeauty.com.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's M-A-Y-U-R-A-Beauty.com.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our theme music is by the one and only Love Gun.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to you next week.